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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3400</B></TD></TR>
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<TD vAlign=top width="10%">Date: </TD>
<TD>12/15/00 11:38:04 PM Pacific Standard Time</TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Saturday, December 16 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3400<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR>Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR>Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR>Re: AHHH! Sailor Moon!<BR>Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote Democratic<BR>Re: What ethnicity is the US?<BR>Re: TEDs<BR>RE: More Task System Heresy<BR>Re: Fnord<BR>RE: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR>RE: More Task System Heresy<BR>Re: Vilani Words<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3391<BR>Re: TEDs<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Really open question...<BR>Relativistic addition of velocities<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Really open question...<BR>Re: Relativistic addition of velocities<BR>Re: Really open question...<BR>CLIMAX!&nbsp; Conclusion to the Traveller Adventure<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 21:31:58 -0600<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR><BR>&gt;I just finished DUNE.&nbsp; What a sensational read!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Great freakin' book.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I remember starting it, years ago, when I was in high school.&nbsp; I<BR>&gt;couldn't get into the damned thing.&nbsp; I was so bored with it.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I guess, back then, at 16, I needed dead-head action--not deep<BR>&gt;psycho-babble.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I had completely forgotten about the book until the big hoopla over the<BR>&gt;SciFi mini-series.&nbsp; I got the itch for some good scifi, and I decided to<BR>&gt;check DUNE out again.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I looked on amazon.com, as I do sometimes when I want to poll what<BR>&gt;others thought.&nbsp; This one review got me (I could have written it):&nbsp; It<BR>&gt;was written by a guy who had started the book, like I did, in high<BR>&gt;school, but was unable to get past the first third of the book.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;He put it down, forgot about it, only to pick it up again years later.<BR>&gt;He said it was a whole new world for him--he guessed that he had to have<BR>&gt;some life experiece behind him to fully enjoy the book.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I couldn't agree more.&nbsp; I haven't enjoyed a book this much in a while.<BR><BR>Maybe, but I started reading it when I was 12-13 and finished when I was <BR>13-14 (my memory's fuzzy for such things)[That was when I bought a set with <BR>the first four books.].<BR><BR>But I can't quite seem to get into Dune: Messiah. Maybe the first one <BR>spoiled me.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>http://members.nbci.com/cheebzero/<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________<BR>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 21:33:09 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR><BR>trentfs@ix.netcom.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I agree wholeheartedly.&nbsp; I finally got around to reading this about 3 years ago, and it's definitely in my SF all-time Top 5*.&nbsp; I enjoyed this book so much that I went out and got copies of several of the sequels, but have heard such universally bad things about them that I've never gotten around to reading them.&nbsp; I'd like to hear your take (especially if it's positive; I've heard enough negative ones).<BR><BR>Are you talking about the Frank Herbert sequels?&nbsp; Are are you talking about the new trilogy written by Frank's son, Brian, and Kevin J. Anderson?<BR><BR>I haven't heard universal bad things about the Frank sequels.&nbsp; I can't comment for myself, because I just started Messiah tonight and have only read the first two chapters (so far, it's pretty doggone cool...and it's not going in a direction I thought it would at the end of DUNE).<BR><BR>I check amazon.com for reviews of the sequels too, and there are a lot of positive remarks there.&nbsp; Many people like the sequels to Dune better than Dune itself.<BR><BR>I think it interesting to note, too, that Frank wrote much of Dune Messiah and Children of Dune WHILE he was writing Dune.&nbsp; Evidently, Frank had so much material for the first book that he divided it up, making three books out of it.<BR><BR>Given that it was written at the same time, you might like the sequels (at least books 2 and 3 anyway) as much as you liked the first one.<BR><BR>Now, above, if you were talking about the Brian Herber/Kevin J. Anderson prequels, I haven't read those yet.&nbsp; I heard that you should read all of the original series first because there are spoilers in the prequels (and the third prequel hasn't been published yet anyway).<BR><BR>I've heard a lot of negative things about this prequel trilogy.&nbsp; I'll probably end up reading them, after I finish the original series, but I do have low expectations--mainly because of the bad press I've heard about them from other Dune fans and the fact that I think Kevin J. Anderson should be shot for even thinking about writing (I read his Star Wars trilogy--the Jedi Academy trilogy--and that waste of paper would be better suited to wipe someone's behind--I don't know<BR>how a guy like that--a hack who writes "genre" fanfic books in the X-Files and Star Wars universe and comic books, finagled his way into writing in the best selling sci fic series of all time).<BR><BR><BR>&gt; While we're on the topic, did anyone see the SF Channel movie?&nbsp; I caught a few minutes of it and was turned off in a big way.&nbsp; The David Lynch movie was a huge failure in many ways (especially if you haven't read the book beforehand) but at least it looks good -- this movie's cheap computer generated f/x were embarrassing by comparison, and distracted me so much I didn't even notice if the acting or adaptation were any good (and turned away at the next commercial break).<BR><BR>I actually didn't mind the series.&nbsp; I've heard that if you hadn't read the book before watching the mini-series, you tend to like the show better.<BR><BR>I did enjoy the SciFi Dune show, but I can't say I thought it was incredible.&nbsp; I thought parts one and three were pretty good, and I thought the middle part was slow.<BR><BR>If I had finished the book before hand, I believe I would have liked the show less--but I am looking forward to the sequel series next year (it's supposed to combine the stories from books 2 and 3).<BR><BR><BR>&gt; *The others are: 'The Foundation Trilogy,'<BR><BR>I want to read this set.&nbsp; I've heard a lot about it.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Stranger in a Strange Land,'<BR><BR>Can you tell me about this one?&nbsp; I've heard it mentioned many times before, and I know it is supposed to be one of the pillars of science fiction history--but I really don't know what it is about.<BR><BR>Can you clue me in?<BR><BR><BR>&gt; 'The Left Hand of Darkness'<BR><BR>Don't know this one either...can you enlighten me to this one?<BR><BR>Thanks,<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 21:37:54 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR><BR>James Jensen wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; But I can't quite seem to get into Dune: Messiah. Maybe the first one<BR>&gt; spoiled me.<BR><BR>I can't really comment, since I just started it tonight, but after two<BR>chapters, my interest is really peaked.<BR><BR>The story is really not going where I thought it would go, and in chapter one,<BR>I was blown away with the "conspiracy" scene.<BR><BR>I thought it was awesome.&nbsp; I'm very interested to see where old FH is going to<BR>take this.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 21:45:10 -0600<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: AHHH! Sailor Moon!<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;I once had a dream where I was Sailor Moon and I had to fight Pinhead.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR><BR>I'd like to add that I once had a dream that there was a Sailor Moon CCG - <BR>months before it happened!<BR><BR>On a similar vein, I also had a dream about Superman's death. I saw an image <BR>of a classic scene where he's flying over the city, but Supes was missing <BR>(nothing but white). Then, like a reporter, there was a voice that said <BR>"Superman is now a mystery man." I can't remember anymore in full detail, <BR>but I actually predicted Steel and the Cyborg.<BR><BR>That day, out shopping, I was looking through a magazine (unless this was <BR>also a dream. it's so hard to distinguish these kind of memories sometimes) <BR>and I saw the almost exact same picture (there was a question mark in the <BR>center of the space where Superman was supposed to be) and read that DC was <BR>planning to kill Supes.<BR><BR>Freaky. Of course, I bought all the issues (post-mortem to ressurection <BR>ones; I got a large reprint for the ones leading to his death).<BR><BR>Persoanlly, I was hoping that the guy with the shades was the real Man of <BR>Steel.<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;Personally, I'd be fighting Sailor Moon.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Careful:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Tuxedo Kamen ... Penguin Boy<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;It can't be a coincidence.<BR><BR>Hmmm. I don't get it. But then, that's probably a good thing.<BR><BR>ObTraveller: What if the PCs were to dream about their own deaths...<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>_________________________________________________________________<BR>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 23:27:13 EST<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote Democratic<BR><BR>One of the more interesting features of ethnic politics in Chicago, so I am <BR>told, is that the city council will rename a street if a 2/3 majority of the <BR>residents can agree on a name -- giving a lot of short streets names <BR>important to neighborhood groups. <BR><BR>Sadly, the council refused to approve the name chsen by the inhabitants of <BR>one very short (2-4 blocks) street inhabited by employees of the Oriental <BR>Institute (one of the coolest places in the US if you are interested in <BR>Ancient Near Eastern History) -- they wanted to rename the street <BR>Tiglath-Pilassar III Blvd. COuncil claimed the name had too many letters . . .<BR><BR>Dunno if it is true, but I heard it at the OI.<BR><BR>LKW<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 23:35:17 EST<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: What ethnicity is the US?<BR><BR>&gt; What ethnicity is the US?&nbsp; Mongrel.<BR><BR>I often think it is our greatest strength. At least it makes for some great <BR>eating . . . all those ethnic restaurants. I remember Vanessi's in SF with <BR>great fondness. And some dim sum place upstairs over some place in Chinatown.<BR><BR>LKW<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 23:41:00 -0700<BR>From: "David J. Golden" &lt;goldendj@pcisys.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: TEDs<BR><BR>At 07:11 pm 12/15/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>&gt;From: sneadj@mindspring.com &lt;sneadj@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;&lt; Very much agreed.&nbsp; My take on reading the material in TNE was<BR>that the<BR>&gt;RCES mostly wanted to go in and "free" these worlds' tech for their<BR>own use.<BR>&gt;The RCES seemed like perfectly reasonable villains, but presenting<BR>them as<BR>&gt;heroic and as reasonable options for PCs seemed somewhere between<BR>silly and<BR>&gt;repugnant.&nbsp; The whole term "Star Viking" pretty much says it all.<BR>They<BR>&gt;looked primarily to be about violent conquest, rampaging greed, and<BR>&gt;destroying all potential opposition.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; YMMV--if that's how you chose to run it, of course that's what you<BR>got. That's not how I ran it. But since I'm dropping off the<BR>Traveller vine here soon, no point in starting another holy war with<BR>you infidels ...<BR><BR>- -- Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; large groups.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 17:53:20 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: More Task System Heresy<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote :<BR>&gt; &gt; OK, I'll have to post it now, Our version, known as 3D6<BR>&gt; open-ended (TM) is<BR>&gt; &gt; as follows :<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; 1.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Roll two normal D6 and one Fate die<BR>&gt; &gt; 2.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Add the spots on the two normal die<BR>&gt; &gt; 3.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; If the Fate die shows a red six,<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; subtract six from previous total<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; otherwise<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; add the result to the previous total.<BR>&gt; &gt; 4.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; If the Fate die shows a red six or a black six,<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; roll another Fate die and goto step 3<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Obiously the "fate die" is *not* numbered 1 thru 6. Not if it has<BR>&gt; *both* red sixes and black sixes. So how is it numbered?<BR><BR>Whoops, should have used the basic description.<BR><BR>The above was what we used when someone got some specially numbered dice for<BR>us, so for the last few years we've usd that description. We've used it for<BR>so long, I'd sort of forgotten everyone else doesn't have dice marked in<BR>that way :-)<BR><BR>Basically, on a "Fate" die the "red six" replaced the "one" on a normal die.<BR><BR>All you really need to do is be able to distinguish the "Fate" dice from the<BR>other two, by size, colour, or whatever, and subtract six if you get a one<BR>that die, and reroll the same die if you get a one or a six on that die.<BR><BR>The system has the drawback of there being a very small possibility of<BR>rolling your dice forever...<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 23:50:06 EST<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Fnord<BR><BR>&lt;fnord&gt;<BR>&gt; TO: Secret Master Loren<BR>&gt;&nbsp; FROM: Pawn First Class Penguin Boy<BR>&gt;&nbsp; SUBJECT: Project Kenji<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; I am pleased to report success.&nbsp; The target has been duped into purchasing<BR>&gt;&nbsp; a GURPS book, which will allow us to track him more effectively.&nbsp; Expect<BR>&gt;&nbsp; further cracks in his armor with the announcement of GT: Obscure Vilani<BR>&gt;&nbsp; Languages.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; Soon he will be One of Us.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; Fnord.<BR><BR>Excellent! The hypno-control patterns in Jesse's illustrations are working as <BR>planned.&nbsp; I will make a notation in your permanent record. <BR><BR>&lt;/fnord&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 18:00:22 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR><BR>trentfs@ix.netcom.com wrote :<BR>&gt; I agree wholeheartedly.&nbsp; I finally got around to reading this<BR>&gt; about 3 years ago, and it's definitely in my SF all-time Top 5*.<BR>&gt; I enjoyed this book so much that I went out and got copies of<BR>&gt; several of the sequels, but have heard such universally bad<BR>&gt; things about them that I've never gotten around to reading them.<BR>&gt; I'd like to hear your take (especially if it's positive; I've<BR>&gt; heard enough negative ones).<BR><BR>Here's my take anyway.<BR><BR>Personally, I think that "God-Emperor of Dune" is a better book than "Dune".<BR><BR>"Dune" is more fun, and is a much better book to base an RPG universe on,<BR>but God-Emperor is a better book in a literary sense.<BR><BR>"Dune Messiah" and "Children of Dune" do nothing more than set the scene for<BR>God-Emperor, and the stuff that comes after "God-Emperor" is pretty silly,<BR>though it can still be fun to read.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 22:52:00 -0600<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: More Task System Heresy<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; OK, I'll have to post it now, Our version, known as 3D6<BR>&gt; &gt; open-ended (TM) is<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; as follows :<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; 1.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Roll two normal D6 and one Fate die<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; 2.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Add the spots on the two normal die<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; 3.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; If the Fate die shows a red six,<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; subtract six from previous total<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; otherwise<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; add the result to the previous total.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; 4.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; If the Fate die shows a red six or a black six,<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; roll another Fate die and goto step 3<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Obiously the "fate die" is *not* numbered 1 thru 6. Not if it has<BR>&gt; &gt; *both* red sixes and black sixes. So how is it numbered?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Whoops, should have used the basic description.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;The above was what we used when someone got some specially numbered dice <BR>&gt;for<BR>&gt;us, so for the last few years we've usd that description. We've used it for<BR>&gt;so long, I'd sort of forgotten everyone else doesn't have dice marked in<BR>&gt;that way :-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Basically, on a "Fate" die the "red six" replaced the "one" on a normal <BR>&gt;die.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;All you really need to do is be able to distinguish the "Fate" dice from <BR>&gt;the<BR>&gt;other two, by size, colour, or whatever, and subtract six if you get a one<BR>&gt;that die, and reroll the same die if you get a one or a six on that die.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;The system has the drawback of there being a very small possibility of<BR>&gt;rolling your dice forever...<BR><BR>What do you roll against?<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>http://members.nbci.com/cheebzero/<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________<BR>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 23:53:05 EST<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Vilani Words<BR><BR>In a message dated 15-Dec-00 4:06:48 PM Central Standard Time, <BR>owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 14:10:40 -0500<BR>&gt;&nbsp; From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; Subject: Re: Vilani Word list needed<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; Hi, Loren --<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; Would you be able to read a Mac Word 2000 document?&nbsp; I'll just run <BR>&gt;&nbsp; off a formatted copy of the dictionaries as they stand now (which is <BR>&gt;&nbsp; kinda totally incomplete and sketchy) and email them to you.<BR><BR>Sketchy as it is, I'd rather use something that exists if I can. I have Word <BR>97 on the home machine (a PC) but I don't think there will be a serious <BR>problem.<BR><BR>Send it to gdwgames@aol.com, if you please.<BR><BR>LKW<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 00:22:24 EST<BR>From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3391<BR><BR>In a message dated 12/15/00 12:32:59 AM !!!First Boot!!!, GDWGAMES@aol.com <BR>writes:<BR><BR>&lt;&lt; What ethnicity is the US anyway? My father used to say you could pick any <BR>ethic group you cared to and there were at least 250,000 of them in Chicago <BR>. <BR>. . and they all voted Democratic. I swear the place has street signs in <BR>Samoan in some neighborhoods. &gt;&gt;<BR><BR>When I was a police officer in New York City, there was a precinct in <BR>Brooklyn (I think it was the 61st? in Manhattan Beach; it HAS been a while, <BR>and I was only assigned there one day...) that had instructional posters for <BR>civilians (telling people how to file a complaint, or to speak to the desk <BR>officer for example....) all over the main entrance area. Not only where the <BR>signs in the usual English and Spanish, but also in Russian, Yiddish, and <BR>Polish! Now I know why this area of Brooklyn (near Coney Island) is nicknamed <BR>"Little Odessa". I've been told that the 5th Precinct in Chinatown has the <BR>same in Mandarin and Cantonese...:-)<BR><BR>Ob Trav: There REALLY should be more detailed language rules to irritate <BR>PC's...:-)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 23:51:28 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: TEDs<BR><BR>On 12/15/00 at 07:55 PM,&nbsp; knightsky@juno.com said:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; I don't have a lot of respect for the RC, their bully boys, *or*<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; their Hiver masters.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Very much agreed.&nbsp; My take on reading the material in TNE was <BR>&gt;&gt; that the RCES mostly wanted to go in and "free" these worlds' tech <BR>&gt;&gt; for their own use.&nbsp; The RCES seemed like perfectly reasonable <BR>&gt;&gt; villains, but presenting them as heroic and as reasonable options <BR>&gt;&gt; for PCs seemed somewhere between silly and repugnant.&nbsp; The <BR>&gt;&gt; whole term "Star Viking" pretty much says it all.&nbsp; They looked <BR>&gt;&gt; primarily to be about violent conquest, rampaging greed, and <BR>&gt;&gt; destroying all potential opposition.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com&nbsp; &nbsp; <BR><BR><BR>&gt;You know, I was actually considering breaking down and finally<BR>&gt;buying a copy of TNE... but it looks like my initial fears were<BR>&gt;justified (something always struck me as "wrong" from what little I<BR>&gt;heard of TNE, but I could never quite place my finger on it).&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR><BR>No, no!&nbsp; Don't let what John and I wrote stop you from buying TNE.<BR>Read the material, make up you mind whether the Star Vikings are<BR>heros, villians or something in between...my take is *really* all<BR>the above.&nbsp; :-)&nbsp; <BR><BR>I tend to be a contrarian, heretic that I am, so it shouldn't<BR>surprise people here that I take a off-beat position.&nbsp; So, I give<BR>the RC and RCES a cynical side and a corrupt core.&nbsp; I paint the<BR>picture so that the RC, and their Hiver masters, are trying to<BR>disrupt, crush, and absorb pocket empires and struggling independent<BR>worlds.&nbsp; <BR><BR>An element of TNE that often goes unmentioned is that the RC has<BR>some competition.&nbsp; There are a couple of pocket empires in the area,<BR>and there are the Star Guild and the Network of Free Traders.&nbsp; <BR><BR>The official books paint the Guild as slavers and worse, and bitter<BR>enemies of the RC.&nbsp; What if the Guild really *aren't* the villians<BR>RC literture paints them?&nbsp; What if it is a real attempt by the Free<BR>Trader Network to begin developing the sector by encouraging trade<BR>and opening markets among the worlds of the Wild, but one not<BR>controlled by the RC and it's masters?&nbsp; <BR><BR>IMO, if you want an "uplifting" game, that's the way to go!&nbsp; ;-&gt; <BR><BR>Eris<BR><BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 00:08:32 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>On 12/13/00 at 01:30 PM,&nbsp; "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" &lt;jenry023@student.liu.se&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;Under the naming laws used in Scandinavia (Sweden, Finland, Norway,<BR>&gt;Denmark, Iceland), at least in the countries I know these laws of,<BR>&gt;you are allowed to take an "odd" name if you have cultural<BR>&gt;background etc. to motivate it.<BR><BR>&gt;What is disallowed is taking an "odd" name without apparent reason.<BR>&gt;However, the laws are quite loose on that subject as well. Names<BR>&gt;which are obviously silly, like "Idiot" or "Gravel" (actually tried<BR>&gt;and denied in Sweden), will not be allowed. However...<BR><BR>&gt;There is one man with the name Sauron.<BR>&gt;There are four men with the name Legolas. Two of them have that<BR>&gt;name as their primary name.<BR>&gt;(source: Swedish Central Buerau of Statistics)<BR><BR>&gt;The laws are not that strict after all&nbsp; ;-)<BR><BR>Yes, but why do they exist at all?&nbsp; Is there a logical motivation to<BR>having a governmental body regulate names?<BR><BR>I've taught people with some quite stange, but legal, first names:<BR>Nosmoking, Female, Boy, and Kissme; not to mention a Major, a Doctor<BR>and two Lawyers. I won't even try to get into ethnic names! &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Note:&nbsp; Nosmoking was pronounced Nosma-Ken (Ken for short), and Female was<BR>pronounced Fe-mall-E, and I'll let you guess *why* their mothers<BR>gave them those names. :-&gt;<BR><BR><BR>Eris, <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; who's name neither reflects his gender, ethnicity, nor his<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; philosophy...for the most part...but *is* part of his legal name.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 23:16:48 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net &lt;eris@pcola.gulf.net&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;Yes, but why do they exist at all?&nbsp; Is there a logical motivation to<BR>&gt;having a governmental body regulate names?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I've taught people with some quite stange, but legal, first names:<BR>&gt;Nosmoking, Female, Boy, and Kissme; not to mention a Major, a Doctor<BR>&gt;and two Lawyers. I won't even try to get into ethnic names! &lt;g&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Note:&nbsp; Nosmoking was pronounced Nosma-Ken (Ken for short), and Female was<BR>&gt;pronounced Fe-mall-E, and I'll let you guess *why* their mothers<BR>&gt;gave them those names. :-&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I have a tech that works for me, a lovely girl, but one with a weird<BR>name, &amp; I thought my parents were twisted when they nicknamed me "Legate".<BR>Her name is Vagina Jones.&nbsp; Now, Nosmoking, Female, Boy, Kissmee, Major,<BR>Doctor, Lawyer are not that strange.&nbsp; Though in "Catch-22" there was a Major<BR>Major Major Major.&nbsp; Rank of Major, first name of Major, middle name of<BR>Major, &amp; last name of Major.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Of course in the past people have been named "Noble".<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 01:29:19 -0500<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Really open question...<BR><BR>What do people think of James White's Sector General series?&nbsp; Both as<BR>random reads and as ideas for color in a Traveller universe?<BR><BR>Should I expend the $/effort to try to collect the whole set?&nbsp; If so, where<BR>should I look (other than Amazon, which is not always the best price, from<BR>what I understand)?<BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>(Ask me via email about the ILink message network!)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 01:34:08 -0500<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Relativistic addition of velocities<BR><BR>The formula that I've been seeing for adding velocities A and B is<BR><BR>(A+B)/(1+AB)<BR><BR>Somehow, I remember a factor of reciprocal c^2 in there:<BR><BR>(A+B)/(1+(AB/(C^2)))<BR><BR>Could someone explain to me why I'm remembering wrong, and where that<BR>memory comes from?<BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>(Ask me via email about the ILink message network!)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 01:37:57 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>Gordon Horne wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Please bring it over to the Trav-Cult mailing list where it belongs.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I thought that was one of the many dead Traveller lists. Apparently not.<BR><BR>No!&nbsp; Of course not!&nbsp; It's just -- sleeping!<BR><BR>It's pining for your posts.<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 17:53:09 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Really open question...<BR><BR>Jeff Zeitlin wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; What do people think of James White's Sector General series?&nbsp; Both<BR>&gt; as random reads and as ideas for color in a Traveller universe?<BR><BR>I quite liked them.&nbsp; I haven't read them all, but I didn't read one I<BR>really disliked.&nbsp; They would probably make good Traveller settings --<BR>it's a great way to have the PCs meet strange new life forms (and not<BR>shoot them).<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 17:55:12 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Relativistic addition of velocities<BR><BR>On Sat, Dec 16, 2000 at 01:34:08AM -0500, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:<BR>&gt; The formula that I've been seeing for adding velocities A and B is<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; (A+B)/(1+AB)<BR><BR>In units where C=1, yes, e.g. time in years and distance in<BR>light-years.&nbsp; Otherwise<BR><BR>&gt; (A+B)/(1+(AB/(C^2)))<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 00:29:16 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Really open question...<BR><BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&gt;What do people think of James White's Sector General series?&nbsp; Both as<BR>&gt;random reads and as ideas for color in a Traveller universe?<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; They are great.&nbsp; To be honest with you, he is one of the best Silver Age<BR>SF Authors out there.&nbsp; I like how on Sector General it feels like a real<BR>hospital, &amp; having worked at T-Bird Sam in Phoenix, I know what a real<BR>hospital feels like, &amp; Sector General feels real.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Random Reads:&nbsp; Hell, yes.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Traveller Universe Color:&nbsp; Not really, not that many Major Races around,<BR>nor would a idea like Sector General be around.&nbsp; I can see it in ST, &amp; I<BR>have placed something like that in my LUGTrek game.<BR><BR>&gt;Should I expend the $/effort to try to collect the whole set?&nbsp; If so, where<BR>&gt;should I look (other than Amazon, which is not always the best price, from<BR>&gt;what I understand)?<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Yes, but I would first look at a used book store, not Amazon.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 01:33:37 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: CLIMAX!&nbsp; Conclusion to the Traveller Adventure<BR><BR>Folks,<BR><BR>As I restart my Trav campaign from two years ago, I've got to<BR>re-introduce my players to the Traveller universe.&nbsp; I also have a new<BR>player with me who has never before played Traveller (and knows very<BR>little about it).<BR><BR>For this player (and to re-introduce the group), I've created three<BR>documents.&nbsp; The first one (this one) is a quick synopsis of the last<BR>3000-4000 years of human existence.&nbsp; It's a general history of the three<BR>Imperiums, with a focus on the Humani race.<BR><BR>The next one (not posted yet) is a prologue to my campaign.&nbsp; I'm using<BR>Marc's awesome Traveller Adventure, but I'm definitely not using it<BR>"straight out of the box".&nbsp; To quote Han Solo, "I've made a lot of<BR>modifications myself, so if you'll just get strapped in, we'll be on our<BR>way."&nbsp; I use the Traveller Adventure as the "spine" of the campaign, but<BR>I've added a lot of meat--and a few arms--to the skeleton.<BR><BR>(See Eris!&nbsp; I do know how to create my own universe out of a fully<BR>fleshed out, stock, adventure!)<BR><BR>Lastly, I've got a write up (not posted yet--not even completed yet!) of<BR>everything that happened during the first couple of years we played this<BR>campaign.&nbsp; It's a summary of major events the players can read, designed<BR>to get them "right back into the action".<BR><BR>My Traveller Adventure campaign is steeped in deceit, treachery,<BR>intrigue, and mystery.&nbsp; You'll start to get a feel for that in the<BR>second post (the prologue), but it won't become appearent until you read<BR>through the events that took place in part one of the game.<BR><BR>I'm posting this here for two reasons:&nbsp; (1)&nbsp; I know that other GMs, like<BR>me, like reading things like this, and (2)&nbsp; I know that some people my<BR>see something they would like to cut and paste into their game--whether<BR>it be a general introduction to the human race (in this post) or the<BR>background I've fleshed out leading up to the events in the that start<BR>the Traveller Adventure (the second post) or even the way I've chosen to<BR>run the campaign itself (for instance, Eneri Giilaan, in my game, is a<BR>much, much bigger character than he is as listed in the Traveller<BR>Adventure).<BR><BR>For those of you not interested in any of this, I'm assuming you already<BR>hit the delete key...&nbsp;&nbsp; :)<BR><BR>So, here it is, post number one, two more to<BR>follow................................................................<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>TRAVELLER<BR><BR>CLIMAX!<BR><BR>(Conclusion of the TRAVELLER ADVENTURE)<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>The year is 1105, by the calendar established at the dawn of humanitis<BR>third attempt at an interstellar empire.<BR><BR>For over a thousand standard years, man has pushed out into the galactic<BR>arm, conqueror of all in his path, dominator of<BR>planets and solar systems alike, stretching his reach over 200 parsecs<BR>from Terra.<BR><BR>Aliens refer to this region of the galaxy as Humani Space.<BR><BR>Humans call it The Third Imperium.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Known space is but a fraction of the entire galaxy, but the Third<BR>Imperium is one of the largest empires in known spacethe largest<BR>interstellar empire in existence.&nbsp; It is one of three human-dominated<BR>empires, and together, these three human dominated regions account for<BR>over a fourth of every solar system that has ever been explored.<BR><BR>Humans are the most numerous beings known to exist.<BR><BR>A blue planet, lying far out in one of the spiral arms of the Milky Way,<BR>is the birthworld of the Humani.&nbsp; Some refer to this world by its<BR>ancient name, Earth, but most beings today call it Terra.<BR><BR>Humans from this world are no longer referred to as Terrans or<BR>Earthlings.&nbsp; They are known as Solomanimeaning Men of Sol (Sol<BR>being the name of Earths sun).&nbsp; And, if you count the current year by<BR>the ancient Solomani calendar, the year is 5623 ADthe 57th century, in<BR>ancient Earth terms.<BR><BR>For an age, the Solomani believed themselves to be the only intelligent<BR>life in existence.&nbsp; They experienced a rude change in their culture when<BR>they discovered otherwise.&nbsp; As they took to the stars, the Solomani,<BR>like so many species before them, began to colonize other worlds.&nbsp; At<BR>first, they settled their solar system, and then, as their technology<BR>developed, allowing them to push out into the void, they set foot on<BR>worlds in other star systems.<BR><BR>They discovered other intelligent lifealien life.<BR><BR>And, they discovered that some of the aliens were human!<BR><BR>The Solomani year was 2096 AD.&nbsp; Terran explorersmen from the small,<BR>fledgling grouping of Solomani planets--made contact with another race<BR>of humans, humans calling themselves Vilani.<BR><BR>But that shockcarrying with it ramifications in religion and eons of<BR>scientific theory that the Terran society and culture would barely<BR>overcomewas reflected as a simple Solomani facial tick when compared to<BR>the discovery that the Vilani already controlled an interstellar empire.<BR><BR>The Vilani called their empire the Ziru Sirka, meaning Grand Empire of<BR>Stars, and it was so vast and awe-inspiring that it took years to<BR>travel across, even in the fastest jump-capable starships of the time.<BR><BR>The Ziru Sirkawhat history refers to as the First Imperiumpredated the<BR>Solomani jump out from Terra by some 1500 standard years.<BR><BR>When the Solomani were just beginning to explore the<BR>use of iron, the Vilani were exploring the galaxy.<BR><BR>The Vilani empire had existed since 473 AD on the Solomani calendar, and<BR>the Grand Empire of Stars stood poised to swallow the pitiful number of<BR>systems the Solomani had settled as a river swallowing a few pebbles<BR>that fall in its path.<BR><BR><BR><BR>The Interstellar Wars.<BR><BR>The Solomani and the Vilani became co-habitants in the space around<BR>Earth.&nbsp; The Vilani made initiatives to draw the Solomani into the Ziru<BR>Sirka, and the Solomani resisted.<BR><BR>War broke out.&nbsp; Fiercely independent, the Solomani defied efforts to<BR>have their culture swallowed by the humans-not-from-Earth.&nbsp; But, the<BR>Vilani leaders on Vland, the Ziru Sirka capital, looked at the Terrans<BR>with little more than mild curiosity.&nbsp; The pitiful number of Terran<BR>systems were but just one more client state of the great, star-spanning<BR>empire of the Vilani.<BR><BR>For close to two centuries, the relations between the Vilani and the<BR>Terran Confederation (as Solomani Space had come to be known), were<BR>typified by a number wars fought along the Ziru Sirkas rimward border.<BR><BR>Communication within the Grand Empire of Stars was slow, and Vilani<BR>culture emphasized decision by committeea stark contrast to the culture<BR>of the Solomani, where individual initiative is lauded and communication<BR>distances within the much smaller Terran Confederation were extremely<BR>shorter.<BR><BR>The Solomani fought a guerilla war, on many different fronts, followed<BR>by peace, then war, then peace, then war again.&nbsp; The Vilani leaders<BR>regarded the Interstellar Wars as little more than a regional<BR>problemwhere issues in other parts of the enormous empire drew<BR>priority.<BR><BR>And over this 189 year period, the people of the Solomani and the Vilani<BR>mingled.&nbsp; A great diaspora from Earth ensued, and Terrans, like the<BR>Chosen People, spread out from Earth, planting themselves on distant<BR>planets.<BR><BR><BR><BR>The Rule of Man.<BR><BR>218 standard years after first contact between the Solomani and the<BR>Vilani, one of the most confounding hiccups in history occurred.<BR><BR>The Solomani had saturated the rimward systems of the Ziru Sirka.&nbsp; Many<BR>of them came to power on Vilani held worlds.&nbsp; The two cultures blended.<BR>Solomani influence soared, and the Vilani were hampered by the slow,<BR>meticulous decision process characteristic of their culture.<BR><BR>In a blink of an eye, just 15 years after the end of the last<BR>Interstellar War between the two peoples, the Solomani came to power.<BR>The Ziru Sirka fell.<BR><BR>A Solomani empire referred to the Rule of Man was born.&nbsp; It was the same<BR>empirejust under new leadership, even though Solomani rule is referred<BR>to, in history, as the Second Imperium.<BR><BR>The men of Earth, from the tiny collection of stars, had defeated the<BR>might of the Grand Empire of Stars.<BR><BR>David had slew Goliath.<BR><BR><BR><BR>The Long Night.<BR><BR>The Rule of Man was characterized by rebirth but little growth of the<BR>Second Imperium.&nbsp; Under Vilani rule, the First Imperium had floundered,<BR>stagnated, in both growth and technological development.&nbsp; The Solomani<BR>fought to change that characteristic of the empire, but it was a<BR>difficult battle.&nbsp; The Vilani system had been entrenched for close to<BR>2000 years.&nbsp; The Solomani experience with governing an interstellar<BR>government was under 200 yearsand never had the Terrans&nbsp; ruled an<BR>empire as vast as the Imperium.<BR><BR>It was a miracle the Solomani became governors of the largest<BR>star-empire in existence.&nbsp; And, it was inevitable they would loose it.<BR><BR>Nobody foresaw just how bad the new rulers would be for the Second<BR>Imperium.&nbsp; Where the Vilani were stagnant and rigid, the Solomani were<BR>inexperienced and naive.<BR><BR>The first indication of the inability of the Solomani came when it was<BR>apparent the new nobility would be unable to persuade their own brethren<BR>to accept membership within the Second Imperium.&nbsp; Solomani and Vilani<BR>people merged during the 428 year period known as the Rule of Man.&nbsp; Over<BR>the generations, Solomani/Vilani culture became oneto the point where a<BR>distinction between the two races of Humaniti was no longer made on some<BR>worlds of the Imperium.<BR><BR>The Solomani of the Terran region of space despised what some of their<BR>people had becomeloosing themselves in an alien culture, and the Terran<BR>Confederation remained independent (albeit sympathetic) of their cousins<BR>of the Second Imperium.<BR><BR>But the men of the Terran Confederation could not prevent what would<BR>befall all of Humaniti at the hands of the new inexperienced Imperial<BR>rulers.<BR><BR>Over the four centuries of Solomani rule, technology subsided.&nbsp; Regions<BR>of the Imperium gradually lost touch with the rest of the whole.&nbsp; Border<BR>wars were dealt with by persons inexperienced with interstellar<BR>government.<BR><BR>The Second Imperium fell apart.<BR><BR>The Rule of Man was over.<BR><BR>And, the Long Night had begun.<BR><BR>For over 2000 years, the Imperium existed.&nbsp; Created and guided by Vilani<BR>for 1600 years, the Solomani destroyed it in just over 400 years.<BR><BR>The following 2000 years, there was no Imperium.&nbsp; The Solomani<BR>government crumbled.&nbsp; Pirates fed on interstellar shipping like never<BR>before because of inept Solomani policy and enforcement.&nbsp; Interstellar<BR>trade eventually came to a standstill.&nbsp; The net growth of industrial<BR>output throughout the empire was negative.&nbsp; Factories closed faster than<BR>new ones could open.<BR><BR>This black time marked a pull-back from space by virtually all humans in<BR>Vilani-dominated space.&nbsp; The self-defeating nature of interstellar<BR>piracy eliminated itself as a major threateventually, there just were<BR>no cargo ships to prey upon.<BR><BR>What was left of Imperial interstellar trade was taken over by other<BR>star-faring races, although only on an intermittent basis.&nbsp; Aslan<BR>traders wandered through the rimward sectors of the former Rule of Man<BR>territory.&nbsp; Vargr traders visitedand sometimes raidedthe coreward<BR>sectors.<BR><BR>Some small human governments retained their starship technology and<BR>served their own worlds, but other Imperial planets fell into dark<BR>ages.&nbsp; Some were plagued by wars brought on by massive inflation, scarce<BR>food, nill purchasing power, and non-communication outside their solar<BR>systems.<BR><BR>The Imperium was plunged back in time, 4000 years, to the conditions the<BR>Vilani endured when originally growing the empire.<BR><BR>Eventually, though, light dawned on the Long Night.<BR><BR>Over this multi-generational period, worlds did reach out to contact<BR>their neighbors.&nbsp; Federations, Republics, and other small interstellar<BR>unions emerged.&nbsp; Interstellar trade within one union of star systems<BR>merged with new markets in other interstellar unions.<BR><BR>Small human governments emerged, connected themselves, grew bigger.<BR><BR>Until onethe Sylean Federationreached out its hand, provided by a man<BR>born of the union between a Solomani father and a Vilani mother,<BR>establishing the Third Imperium.<BR><BR>That was over 1000 years ago.&nbsp; By the Terran calendar, it was the year<BR>4518 AD.&nbsp; Cleon I declared himself emperor, established a new dating<BR>system (the one we use today), and a campaign was begun to recapture all<BR>of the member worlds lost after the fall of the Rule of Man.<BR><BR>Some 500 years passes, but the former Imperium was restoredand it grew,<BR>larger than ever before, thanks to the establishment of the Imperial<BR>Interstellar Scout Service and the aggressive efforts made by a long<BR>line of strong handed emperors.<BR><BR>Today, after 1105 years of membership in the Third Imperium, Vilani and<BR>Solomani are indistinguishable.&nbsp; In the middle classes, traditionally<BR>both geographically and socially mobile, the Vilani/Solomani distinction<BR>has become meaningless.&nbsp; Extensive intermarriage has blended the two,<BR>and the tendency, during the Rule of Man, for wealthy Vilani to adopt<BR>Solomani surnames has further made fine distinctions of lineage<BR>difficult to define and trace.<BR><BR>Initially, the Third Imperium was dominated by the Solomania result of<BR>the Solomani dominated Sylean Federation, and, to a lesser extent, the<BR>influence of the Solomani during the Rule of Man.&nbsp; But, today, most<BR>citizens of the empire refer to themselves as Imperials, members of the<BR>species known as Humani.<BR><BR>Terra is now a member-world of the Third Imperium, but the Terran<BR>Confederation still exists, as an independent empire, now calling itself<BR>the Solomani Confederation.&nbsp; When the term Solomani is used today to<BR>describe a being, it is understood as a term describing a human from<BR>this independent statenot an Imperial citizen.<BR><BR>The Solomani have moved their homeworld to a planet called Home, and<BR>there is much friction between the Third Imperium and the Solomani<BR>Confederation over the ownership of Earth.<BR><BR><BR><BR>The Ancients &amp; The Solomani Hypothesis.<BR><BR>Since first contact was made with the Vilani, the collective Solomani<BR>consciousness wondered at the impossibility of another human race<BR>developing on a planet other than Earth.&nbsp; There were many types of<BR>species within and beyond the Imperial borders, but the chance that an<BR>exact species had evolved on two different worlds was mind boggling.<BR>Scientists were stymied for over 2500 years.<BR><BR>About 100 years after the establishment of the Third Imperium, during<BR>the growth and recapture period, investigations were made on Vland,<BR>homeworld of the Vilani and the former capital of the Ziru Sirka.&nbsp; The<BR>Imperial scientists found that it was an impossibility that the Vilani<BR>had evolved on Vland.&nbsp; The planets ecological system ensured that a<BR>human could not have come from the world.<BR><BR>In addition, Solomani archeologists discovered that pyramids, like the<BR>Egyptian structures on Earth, had been found on other planets in the<BR>Imperium.&nbsp; The Vilani had always known this, but it was not until the<BR>Solomani came to power that notice was taken of the galactic<BR>coincidence.<BR><BR>Similar constructions, like the stone heads of Easter Island and the<BR>strange circle of stones known as Stonehenge, were found as well, and it<BR>became clear that the ancient superstitions of aliens visiting Earth<BR>when Humaniti was in its infancy were truehowever shocking that may be.<BR><BR>Until the Third Imperium was established, there existed no satisfactory<BR>explanation for the many interfertile human races found on different<BR>worlds (many races other than the Solomani and the Vilani).&nbsp; Numerous<BR>theories on mans origins had been proposed, but none had gained<BR>complete acceptance.<BR><BR>Evidence was gathered, and a startling revelation was unleashed upon all<BR>Humaniti, Solomani and Vilani alike:&nbsp; An ancient, star-faring race of<BR>lizard-like people did indeed visit Earth before humans recorded<BR>history.&nbsp; Earth was indeed the birthplace of Humaniti.&nbsp; And the<BR>Ancients, as the ancient lizard-aliens have come to be known, took some<BR>unknown interest in the species and seeded humans throughout this<BR>section of the galaxywhere humans have adapted, and thrived, and<BR>thought themselves evolved on the worlds on which they were planted.<BR><BR>This theory was unleashed on the galaxy in 114, by the Imperial<BR>calendar, and it has become known as the Solomani Hypothesis.<BR><BR>Not much more has been discovered about the Ancients since that<BR>revelation, over a thousand years ago, but evidence of the Ancients<BR>existence has been found.<BR><BR>It is known that the Ancients wielded the power of extremely high<BR>technologytechnology much higher than any attained by any species known<BR>to exist today.&nbsp; The Ancients are actually credited with genetically<BR>uplifting speciesactually forcing evolution on a species artificially!<BR>It is even hypothesized that the alien, canine-descended Vargr are a<BR>product of Ancient genetic evolution.&nbsp; Vargr DNA measures, almost<BR>exactly, as DNA from various species of dogs on Terra (although a Vargr<BR>would never agree to that finding).<BR><BR>What little evidence of the Ancients that has been found indicates that<BR>the pre-historic aliens dominated this section of the galaxyand that<BR>they destroyed themselves in a genocidal interstellar war.&nbsp; For what<BR>purpose, it is not known.<BR><BR>The alien species known as the Droynesmall, winged, lizard-like aliens<BR>incapable of flight, devoid of an interstellar empire of their ownare<BR>thought to be the descendants of the Ancients today.&nbsp; It is commonly<BR>accepted that the Droyne are a race that is in the eons-long process of<BR>rebuilding itself after the largest holocaust history has ever known.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>This is the time, the universe, the culture that the game is set in.<BR><BR>The year is 1105, and your characters are citizens of the Third<BR>Imperium.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3400<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; 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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-xd03.mx.aol.com (rly-xd03.mail.aol.com [172.20.105.168]) by air-xd05.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Sat, 16 Dec 2000 02:38:04 1900<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-xd03.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Sat, 16 Dec 2000 02:37:43 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id CAA94584;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Sat, 16 Dec 2000 02:35:53 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Sat, 16 Dec 2000 02:35:28 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id CAA94309<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Sat, 16 Dec 2000 02:35:28 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 02:35:28 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012160735.CAA94309@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3400<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3401</B></TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Saturday, December 16 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3401<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Question<BR>RE: Really open question...<BR>RE: More Task System Heresy<BR>Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting<BR>Re: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology<BR>Re: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology<BR>Re: Aw crap.....&nbsp; was:RE: Question<BR>Re: Question<BR>Re: Question<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3391<BR>Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (Was (long). Now shorter)<BR>Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR>Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR>Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: TEDs<BR>Darrian<BR>Re: CLIMAX!&nbsp; Conclusion to the Traveller Adventure<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>RE: Really open question...<BR>RE: Relativity &amp; FTL<BR>Re: Relativity &amp; FTL<BR>Re: Really open question...<BR>Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Democratic<BR>Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote&nbsp; Democratic<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 01:19:12 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question<BR><BR>From: Jesse Degraff &lt;jedegraf@cisco.com&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&gt;The Barrett I'm firing belongs to a (very rich) buddy of Tod Glenn's.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Cool.&nbsp; Here in Phoenix, we can buy then for about $10,000 at "Right to<BR>Bear Arms".<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 23:58:58 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Really open question...<BR><BR>Jeff Zeitlin wrote :<BR><BR>&gt; What do people think of James White's Sector General series?&nbsp; Both as<BR>&gt; random reads and as ideas for color in a Traveller universe?<BR><BR>They're fun but a bit fluffy.<BR>No real character advancement, "alien disease or patient of the week" type<BR>style.<BR><BR>From a Trav point of view they can give you some interesting ideas for<BR>aliens and dealing with them. They could easily be turned into Trav<BR>adventures if your players are into helping people rather than shooting<BR>them, and if they haven't already read them.<BR><BR>&gt; Should I expend the $/effort to try to collect the whole set?<BR><BR>I wouldn;t bother unless they just happened to turn up cheap.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 00:15:13 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: More Task System Heresy<BR><BR>James Jensen wrote :<BR>&gt; Sent: Saturday, 16 December 2000 17:52<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: More Task System Heresy<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; OK, I'll have to post it now, Our version, known as 3D6<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; open-ended (TM) is<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; as follows :<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; 1.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Roll two normal D6 and one Fate die<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; 2.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Add the spots on the two normal die<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; 3.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; If the Fate die shows a red six,<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; subtract six from previous total<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; otherwise<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; add the result to the previous total.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; 4.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; If the Fate die shows a red six or a black six,<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; roll another Fate die and goto step 3<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Obiously the "fate die" is *not* numbered 1 thru 6. Not if it has<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; *both* red sixes and black sixes. So how is it numbered?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Whoops, should have used the basic description.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;The above was what we used when someone got some specially numbered dice<BR>&gt; &gt;for<BR>&gt; &gt;us, so for the last few years we've usd that description. We've<BR>&gt; used it for<BR>&gt; &gt;so long, I'd sort of forgotten everyone else doesn't have dice marked in<BR>&gt; &gt;that way :-)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Basically, on a "Fate" die the "red six" replaced the "one" on a normal<BR>&gt; &gt;die.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;All you really need to do is be able to distinguish the "Fate" dice from<BR>&gt; &gt;the<BR>&gt; &gt;other two, by size, colour, or whatever, and subtract six if you<BR>&gt; get a one<BR>&gt; &gt;that die, and reroll the same die if you get a one or a six on that die.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;The system has the drawback of there being a very small possibility of<BR>&gt; &gt;rolling your dice forever...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; What do you roll against?<BR><BR>Whatever you like really.<BR><BR>The dice as they are have a mean about 10.5, so with classic trav, if you<BR>want to roll against a set figure with skills modifying the roll, you can do<BR>that. Or with TNE you can just roll straight against the skill, though it<BR>will give a somewhat different result that normal TNE, as the probability<BR>curve is no longer flat.<BR><BR>In our own game we used skill plus stat, as we had skills and stats that<BR>ranged from 1 to 10, meaning an average stat with an average skill had<BR>approxiamtely 50/50 chance of success.<BR><BR>The important thing you need to know is that with the target figure being<BR>ten, if you add a modifier of five to the die roll, (assuming rolling under<BR>is a success) you half your chances of success, and vice versa.<BR><BR>The task system involved building up task totals based on the difference<BR>betweeen the required roll and the actual roll.&nbsp; Some tasks were reversible,<BR>which meant that of you rolled a negatove effect you could go backwards.<BR><BR>I'll toss our game mechanics on my web site and let people look at the whole<BR>thing if they want.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 22:24:32 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; On Fri, 15 Dec 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Or the routine someone used in a campaign I was in:<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Torture the prisoner until he's almost dead. Apply cure wounds<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; until he's reasonably healthy. Repeat until he talks...<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Okay, if we're going down that path: Make the victim immortal and<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; regenerating, then lock him forever in the deepest dungeon with a<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Lament Configuration puzzle box!<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; What's that?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; You never saw Hellraiser?<BR><BR>Nope. I caught snatches of II or III on cable months ago. But that's<BR>it. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 22:25:42 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Timothy Little writes:<BR>&gt;&gt; Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Um...I don't think acceleration is absolute under GR.&nbsp; Actually, I<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; don't think rotation is either.&nbsp; Under SR you're correct, though.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Acceleration and rotation are absolutes under GR as well.&nbsp; Einstein<BR>&gt;&gt; hoped that GR would have Mach's principle as a consequence, but it was<BR>&gt;&gt; not to be.&nbsp; You can detect acceleration without making any external<BR>&gt;&gt; observations even in GR.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; How can you detect that your observed 'acceleration' is not actually a <BR>&gt; gravitational field?<BR><BR><BR>At a point, you *can't*. That's another consequence of relativity. But<BR>if you are allowed to measure over a distance, you can detect the<BR>change in the gravity field.<BR><BR>We can detect the change in the earth's gravity over something on the<BR>order of 10 meters of vertical distance.<BR><BR>Of course, you *could* be on an Alderson disc, and a long ways from an<BR>edge... :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 22:28:14 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Tidal forces.<BR><BR>Very hard to measure on if the gravitation source is large enough or<BR>non-spherical.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 22:34:35 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Aw crap.....&nbsp; was:RE: Question<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Well, consider that unless they made them while the range was "down",<BR>&gt;&gt; odds are they'd be unintelligible due to background noise.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; -- <BR>&gt;&gt; Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>&gt;&gt; leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Yeah, audio can get a bit washed out occaisionally on a machinegun range :)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Jesse<BR><BR>And I doubt the audio would do justice to the Barretts, much less the<BR>Lahti and Solothurn. :-)<BR><BR>After all, once the diaphragm in the mike reaches max deflection,<BR>there's not much else it can do. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 22:39:34 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Question<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Sorry, thought everyone knew it.&nbsp; It's:<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/trav_welcome.htm<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; I'm looking at it on another machine right now. I think you should<BR>&gt;&gt; consider having T-shirts made with the "Happiness is a warm minigun"<BR>&gt;&gt; Ditzie picture on them. :-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; What do you think I plan on wearing to BayCon and any other cons I can get<BR>&gt; to in 2001?&nbsp; :)<BR><BR>Bring some to the next shoot. They'd sell, even if folks have no idea<BR>who Ditzie is. :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 22:40:41 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Question<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; The Barrett I'm firing belongs to a (very rich) buddy of Tod Glenn's.<BR><BR>And there were at least two others at the shoot.<BR><BR>I'm sorry I missed the minigun! I didn't even know it'd been there<BR>until I saw the pictures. :-(<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 22:54:56 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3391<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; Which is why I'm collecting odd fonts. At the moment I have the<BR>&gt;&gt; following "language" fonts that are sorted out from the huge "heap"<BR>&gt;&gt; I've grabbed from alt.binaries.fonts:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; [... huge list...]<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Wow!&nbsp; Any chance of putting them on a website, or even just mailing<BR>&gt; them to me?.&nbsp; You've got a much better collection than I have.&nbsp; I<BR>&gt; guess I'm not quite so dedicated to sorting through a million<BR>&gt; minor variations on Helvetica and even more weird symbol fonts.<BR><BR>Well, a good chunk of what I've got "sorted out" are the ones that were<BR>archived up with something other than fonts in the file. Those get<BR>special handling so I don't accidentally seperate shareware/freeware<BR>fonts from files that are supposed to stay with them. I don't have a<BR>website. <BR><BR>I might be able to mail some to you, but keep in mind that I connect<BR>via modem, and *upload* speed is a max of 31.2k, and the files have to<BR>be encoded, which makes them about a third again as big.<BR><BR>BTW, I'm using "Unique Filer" which finds most of the dupes. And I do<BR>have a number of weird symbol fonts. As well as lots of dingbats (I<BR>draw a distinction: symbols are a set of *related, and possibly<BR>organized "characters". Dingbats are a bunch of things thrown<BR>together.) <BR><BR>send me an email, and I'll put you on the list.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 23:09:37 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: GT: Reft sector Xboat-link (Was (long). Now shorter)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; At 16:18 12/15/00 -0800, you wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Check out how much energy fusing a kilogram of hydrogen into helium<BR>&gt;&gt;releases.[1] You'll find that the reactors *aren't* producing<BR>&gt;&gt;significant amounts of helium.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;[1] it's around 90 *terajoules*.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; So mount helium collectors on all military warship fusion plants.&nbsp; That ought<BR>&gt; to increase your production a bit in a universe with so many warships..<BR><BR>Not practical. The equipment would cost *far* more than the recovered<BR>helium is worth.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 23:12:19 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; It's an amazing universe.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I'm going to start book 2, DUNE MESSIAH, tonight.<BR><BR>Oh no!<BR><BR>Dune Messiah is *terrible*.... It's the worst book in the series until<BR>the much later stuff where Herbert just started cranking out books (say<BR>after the 5th sequel or so)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 23:14:52 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; I think it interesting to note, too, that Frank wrote much of Dune Messiah <BR>&gt; and Children of Dune WHILE he was writing Dune.&nbsp; Evidently, Frank had so <BR>&gt; much material for the first book that he divided it up, making three books <BR>&gt; out of it.<BR><BR>Actually, "Dune" was two books glued together. They originally appeared<BR>as *seperate* novels serialized in Analog in the early 60s.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Stranger in a Strange Land,'<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Can you tell me about this one?&nbsp; I've heard it mentioned many times before, <BR>&gt; and I know it is supposed to be one of the pillars of science fiction <BR>&gt; history--but I really don't know what it is about.<BR><BR>&gt; Can you clue me in?<BR><BR>Not without spoiling it. <BR><BR>All I can say is that major parts of the book deal with a human who was<BR>raised by Martians and his reactions to Terran Culture and Terran<BR>culture's reactions to him.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 23:19:15 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; James Jensen wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; But I can't quite seem to get into Dune: Messiah. Maybe the first one<BR>&gt;&gt; spoiled me.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I can't really comment, since I just started it tonight, but after two<BR>&gt; chapters, my interest is really peaked.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ^^^^^^<BR><BR>I believe that's "piqued". :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 13:31:28 +0200 (EET)<BR>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>On Sat, 16 Dec 2000 eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;The laws are not that strict after all&nbsp; ;-)<BR>&gt; Yes, but why do they exist at all?&nbsp; Is there a logical motivation to<BR>&gt; having a governmental body regulate names?<BR><BR>Perhaps it is that we feel that because government gives us things, it<BR>can also demand things from us. <BR><BR>And in practice the situation is not unlike European in the US. I think<BR>you still have to tell different entities where you live, so you can get<BR>mail, insurance and such things.<BR><BR>This all probably is a direct consequence of different views of a state<BR>and its functions. It seems to me that you Americans like a state which<BR>does not interfere, in good or bad, but here in Finland state provides<BR>many things for citizens, at the same time demanding something from the<BR>citizens. I don't really know.<BR><BR>My only American friend is really a Russian Jew, but she has lived many<BR>years in the US before coming to Finland. She seems to like it here,<BR>though, with all the stupid laws and all. B-) (She is currently working in<BR>Boston, though. She is coming back here sometime in spring.)<BR><BR>And, as an aside, I think some Finnish names could not be used in th US.<BR>Just think of those little two dots over 'a's and 'o's, and which<BR>computers would display them correctly.<BR><BR>(Mtt, a surname is an example. I don't know how you see it, but it<BR>should be Maatta with two dots over all 'a's.)<BR><BR>&gt; I've taught people with some quite stange, but legal, first names:<BR>&gt; Nosmoking, Female, Boy, and Kissme; not to mention a Major, a Doctor<BR><BR>Have you ever met an Englishman whose name is Mr. Ismoketoomuch?-)<BR><BR>(And I checked the law, there is a loophole : one can get any name if it<BR>can be justified. So, with debating skills one can get almost any name.<BR>And the offensivity clause is for preventing people with names like "Shit"<BR>or something like that. For a reason.)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>+++++++++[&gt;+++++++++&lt;-]&gt;-.&lt;+++++[&gt;+++&lt;-]++&gt;++.&lt;++[&gt;++++&lt;-]+&gt;+.&lt;++[&gt;----<BR>&lt;-]&gt;-.&gt;+++[&gt;++++++++++&lt;-]++&gt;++pare@iki.fi&lt;+[&gt;++++&lt;-]&gt;+.-&gt;+[&gt;++++[&lt;&lt;---&gt;<BR>&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;.&gt;&gt;+++++++[&lt;++++++++++&gt;-]++++[&lt;+++++&gt;-]&lt;-.&gt;[-]&gt;+++[&gt;++[&lt;&lt;&lt;----&gt;&gt;<BR>&lt;&gt;&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;&lt;.+.&gt;[-]++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;.++.[-]&gt;[-]++++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;++.&gt;&gt;++[&gt;++[&gt;-&lt;-]&lt;--]<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 21:03:47 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: TEDs<BR><BR>&gt; From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>&gt; An element of TNE that often goes unmentioned is that the RC has<BR>&gt; some competition.&nbsp; There are a couple of pocket empires in the area,<BR>&gt; and there are the Star Guild and the Network of Free Traders.&nbsp; <BR><BR>What I find interesting is that some of the pocket empires have a lot less<BR>in the way of assets than the RC.&nbsp; To me it makes them just that little bit<BR>more heroic.&nbsp; <BR><BR>It also doesn't help that GDW very clearly said that the RC were going to<BR>survive and "win".&nbsp; I would rather they had left it a little more open: <BR>these people _may_ succeed, or they may fail, and that's what the game is<BR>basically about.&nbsp; (Of course there are some interesting elements in the<BR>"future" material that suggests that "winning" isn't quite what happened,<BR>but that is another story - and a pretty stupid one, I suspect.)<BR><BR>So for me, at least some of the villains in the RC setting were actually<BR>more heroic than the ostensible heroes.&nbsp; In particular, I have always been<BR>intrigued by the "Diasporan Star Empire" (Kide), with its literal handful<BR>of ships, located squarely underneath the "Vampire Highway", with the Guild<BR>on one side and the RC on the other, with a brilliant but basically insane<BR>leader, and still managing to begin to restore interstellar civilisation.<BR><BR>In fact, "maybe one day" I might put a very similar PE somewhere else,<BR>without the Vampire Highway, but with some kind of large PE in the role of<BR>the RC.&nbsp; Unfortunately I haven't been able to decide where to put it. <BR>Daibei seems to be the most promising candidate, since it's close enough<BR>for stuff like the Guild to be reused.&nbsp; Sadly it isn't mapped in Galactic. <BR><BR>Anyway, there is nothing wrong with the RC setting.&nbsp; It's just not quite as<BR>heroic as it is sometimes claimed to be, and its enemies aren't quite so<BR>villainous.&nbsp; Big deal.<BR><BR>Besides, anyone can churn out a pocket empire that matches their<BR>preferences.&nbsp; PEs can be huge or tiny, good or evil, or anything else you<BR>want.&nbsp; Personally, I think it's cheating if you start with more than a<BR>handful of ships - merchants, navy, scouts, belters and all, and I kind of<BR>like "evil empires", but that's just me.<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 11:51:13 -0000<BR>From: "michael.scanlon" &lt;michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Darrian<BR><BR>hi there<BR><BR>I was wondering if any body and any leads for more information on the planet<BR>Darrian. I have the few snippets from CT Supplement 3, and have looked<BR>briefly at what there is in the, GURPS Traveller: Behind The Claw, though<BR>have not yet found anything with any great detail.<BR><BR>Mike<BR><BR>Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>ICQ#27333894<BR><BR>"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:46:28 +0100<BR>From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: CLIMAX!&nbsp; Conclusion to the Traveller Adventure<BR><BR>WOW, great introduction. I think Ill forward it to my group right away.<BR>I cant wait to read the next installments.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 01:20:48 +1300<BR>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>On 16 Dec 00, at 0:08, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Yes, but why do they exist at all?&nbsp; Is there a logical motivation to<BR>&gt; having a governmental body regulate names?<BR><BR>Take a look at Mikko Parviainen's post of 10 Dec and you'll see one of the <BR>main reasons (preserving local culture against a perceived threat from <BR>being overwhelmed). Many apparently obvious things in one culture seem <BR>quite strange from an other.<BR><BR>Why does the US persist in clinging to it hugely inefficent insurance model <BR>of health care? Why does the US allow so many blatantly "silly" law suits? <BR>Why does the US have such a problem with gun control? Why does the <BR>US so fear its own government? All these things seem quite baffling to me, <BR>yet I assume they all make perfect sense if you're on the inside.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:51 +0000 (GMT)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: RE: Really open question...<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEAAFIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>The 'Sector General' series are quite good fun if your TRAVELLER universe <BR>has a vast diversity of aliens rather than just a few sentient races. <BR>(Mine does, on the grounds that the probabilities are greatest for either <BR>none - obviously not! - or one or a large number of sentient races, what I <BR>cannot get my head around is a small number!)<BR><BR>&gt;From the ecological point of view, some of the White sentients are a bit <BR>unlikely, it can be quite difficult justifying the biological niche that <BR>caused particular lifeforms to evolve and succeed.<BR><BR>But the books provide a good few really outlandish beings you can throw at <BR>your players, leaving them wondering if you talk to, eat or exterminate <BR>them :-)<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:43:10 -0000<BR>From: "Mark Preston" &lt;mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Relativity &amp; FTL<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of James Jensen<BR>&gt; Sent: 14 December 2000 23:18<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Relativity &amp; FTL<BR>&gt;<BR>[snip]<BR>&gt; Relativistic formulae don't help because their math quickly<BR>&gt; degenerates into &gt; crud (it's still impossible to square-root<BR>&gt; a negative number). But I assume that the *effects*<BR>&gt; postulated would continue to apply.<BR>&gt;<BR>Sorry for ignoring the rest of your post, but I got stopped here since<BR>you are wildly off beam with the square-root thing. Not only is it<BR>possible, but number theory - the basis for just about all modern<BR>mathematics - works around the complex-number structure (in which<BR>numbers have two components; a "real" - ie. countable - part and an<BR>"imaginary" part) where imaginary numbers are based on the fundamental<BR>value of the square root of minus one.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 14:41:02 +0100<BR>From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" &lt;jenry023@student.liu.se&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity &amp; FTL<BR><BR>Mark Preston wrote:<BR>&gt; you are wildly off beam with the square-root thing. Not only is it<BR>&gt; possible, but number theory - the basis for just about all modern<BR>&gt; mathematics - works around the complex-number structure<BR><BR>Example:&nbsp;&nbsp; e^(i*pi) = -1<BR><BR>Not very intuitive, but true all the same.<BR><BR>* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *<BR>| jenry023@student.liu.se&nbsp; | of Linkoeping, Sweden&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR>| ICQ UIN: 3844745&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; | (computer science/tech.)&nbsp; |<BR>* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; *<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 08:52:48 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Really open question...<BR><BR>Timothy Little wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;really disliked.&nbsp; They would probably make good Traveller settings --<BR>&gt;it's a great way to have the PCs meet strange new life forms (and not<BR>&gt;shoot them).<BR><BR>!!!!!!&nbsp; I suppose you'll have them joining drumming circles and going <BR>to chiropractors next, trying to make them into a bunch of <BR>tree-hugging sissies?&nbsp; Isn't that right, Timothy Little... or should <BR>I say, Timothy LENIN??????<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 08:54:21 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Democratic<BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;I am pleased to report success.&nbsp; The target has been duped into purchasing<BR>&gt;a GURPS book, which will allow us to track him more effectively.&nbsp; Expect<BR>&gt;further cracks in his armor with the announcement of GT: Obscure Vilani<BR>&gt;Languages.<BR><BR>Can't fool me, nope, I knew that was a joke right away; there's no <BR>such project in the works.&nbsp; Didn't trick me into thinking there was <BR>for a second!&nbsp; (You heartless BASTARDS!!!!)<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 09:02:25 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote&nbsp; Democratic<BR><BR>Legate Legion wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;Oh, at the very least.&nbsp; Norris being Norris, I would expect that all<BR>&gt;&gt;members of SBS can not only bench-press a full keg, but give great<BR>&gt;&gt;lap dances, too.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Kenji, no matter what everyone else says, it is good to have you back.<BR><BR>Ha ha.&nbsp; Nice try.&nbsp; The generalized contempt for the public that I've <BR>just had installed here at Harvard -- plus the new pills -- makes me <BR>immune to your outdated paranoia-inducement techniques! <BR>Hahahhahahaha!&nbsp; I'm invincible!<BR><BR>Back to the point, though:&nbsp; another useful skill these SBS vets would <BR>have is ice carving -- good for entertaining oneself while wilderness <BR>refuelling from asteroids and the like, and finally giving ex-Army <BR>characters some minimal role on PC starships.<BR><BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3401<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-za02.mx.aol.com (rly-za02.mail.aol.com [172.31.36.98]) by air-za01.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Sat, 16 Dec 2000 09:02:53 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-za02.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Sat, 16 Dec 2000 09:02:31 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id JAA27616;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Sat, 16 Dec 2000 09:01:55 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Sat, 16 Dec 2000 09:01:44 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id JAA27572<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Sat, 16 Dec 2000 09:01:44 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 09:01:44 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012161401.JAA27572@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3401<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Saturday, December 16 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3402<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Question<BR>Re: TEDs<BR>Re: TEDs<BR>This TU has 10 000 repugnant features<BR>RE: Relativity &amp; FTL<BR>Pirate Academy fight song?<BR>Re: AHHH! Sailor Moon! <BR>Re: Aw crap.....&nbsp; was:RE: Question<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote Democratic<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3391<BR>Re: What ethnicity is the US?<BR>Re: CLIMAX!&nbsp; Conclusion to the Traveller Adventure<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>re: Relativistic addition of velocities<BR>Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR>Re: What ethnicity is the US?<BR>re: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR>Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 09:06:31 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question<BR><BR>Legate Legion:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; One argument.&nbsp; Who let Kenji near a weapon, much less shoot one?&nbsp; I<BR>&gt;would not trust him, no matter how much I like him, with a butter knife<BR>&gt;around me, much less a fire-arm.&nbsp; Remember the time at the Country Club with<BR>&gt;the salad oil?&nbsp; &lt;j/k&gt;<BR><BR>Urrrrk??? I was not at this shoot, not by a long shot.&nbsp; I think that <BR>at the moment those photos were taken, I was here in Cambridge <BR>carding preppies and pouring beer (no lap dances, though).&nbsp; Now, <BR>whether my *mind* was, at that very same moment, on a machine gun <BR>range... well... who can say?<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 08:54:02 -0600<BR>From: Richard Wilson &lt;rtwilson@rollanet.org&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: TEDs<BR><BR>At 12:23 AM 12/15/00, you wrote:<BR>&gt;On 12/13/00 at 01:33 PM,&nbsp; Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt; said:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;One thing that bothers me about the TNE background -<BR>&gt; &gt;technologically-elevated dictators (TEDs) are portrayed as<BR>&gt; &gt;futuristic equivalents of banana republic dictators.&nbsp; Their<BR>&gt; &gt;military forces are mostly for show, and couldn't stand up to the<BR>&gt; &gt;righteous assault of the Star Vikings.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;So, what if the vaunted Star Vikings launched an orbital assault<BR>&gt; &gt;against a TED and found themselves up against the equivalent of the<BR>&gt; &gt;Argentinian air force, who, despite losses, attempt to eradicate<BR>&gt; &gt;the planethead the Vikings have established?&nbsp; What if the<BR>&gt; &gt;equivalent of a Waffen SS Panzer division attempted to overrun the<BR>&gt; &gt;lodgement?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;They'd get their head headed to them. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Witness the flavor text in the RC Equipment Guide. A RC squad (wearing <BR>TL10-12 battle dress) is hitting a TL 5-6 world. A sniper opens up with the <BR>local equivalent of a Barrett .50 cal. Two of the squad members get <BR>injured. You have the fearless RCES troopies complaining that "... zippers <BR>aren't supposed to have that kind of firepower."<BR><BR>Richard Wilson&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 08:31:25 -0600<BR>From: Richard Wilson &lt;rtwilson@rollanet.org&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: TEDs<BR><BR>At 12:55 PM 12/15/00, you wrote:<BR>&gt;eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Oh, sure, there will be systems with the classic "technologically<BR>&gt; &gt; elevated dictator" really is lording over the locals, but frankly I<BR>&gt; &gt; think that will be rare.&nbsp; No, actually, I've always considered the<BR>&gt; &gt; term TED to be a conceit of the RCES to give them a sense of moral<BR>&gt; &gt; superiority and to allow them to justify their reaving and piracy to<BR>&gt; &gt; themselves and others.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; I don't have a lot of respect for the RC, their bully boys, *or*<BR>&gt; &gt; their Hiver masters.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Very much agreed.&nbsp; My take on reading the material in TNE was<BR>&gt;that the RCES mostly wanted to go in and "free" these worlds' tech<BR>&gt;for their own use.&nbsp; The RCES seemed like perfectly reasonable<BR>&gt;villains, but presenting them as heroic and as reasonable options<BR>&gt;for PCs seemed somewhere between silly and repugnant.&nbsp; The<BR>&gt;whole term "Star Viking" pretty much says it all.&nbsp; They looked<BR>&gt;primarily to be about violent conquest, rampaging greed, and<BR>&gt;destroying all potential opposition.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR><BR>When I first read TNE I sat there thinking "I've read this book before."<BR><BR>IMHO, the RCES's Star Vikings are H. Beam Piper's Space Vikings without the <BR>morals. After all, in Piper's Space Viking, a self described group of <BR>"robbers and murderers" go out and establish a colony. From there they <BR>build up a trade network and establish a defense alliance with their <BR>neighbors. Yes, they do some raiding, but Prince Trask strongly believes <BR>that trade is more profitable than raiding in the long term, and safer as well.<BR><BR>In TNE, OTOH, you have the Hivers setting up a human government that they <BR>can control (the Reform Coalition) for the express purpose of destroying <BR>the human governments that they don't control.<BR><BR>Richard Wilson<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 09:59:42 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: This TU has 10 000 repugnant features<BR><BR>&gt;Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;I am pleased to report success.&nbsp; The target has been duped into purchasing<BR>&gt;&gt;a GURPS book, which will allow us to track him more effectively.&nbsp; Expect<BR>&gt;&gt;further cracks in his armor with the announcement of GT: Obscure Vilani<BR>&gt;&gt;Languages.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Can't fool me, nope, I knew that was a joke right away; there's no <BR>&gt;such project in the works.&nbsp; Didn't trick me into thinking there was <BR>&gt;for a second!&nbsp; (You heartless BASTARDS!!!!)<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>This is what happens when you go from zero to one hundred percent <BR>blood caffeine saturation levels in five minutes, and on some level <BR>best not thought about too much are deeply disappointed and hurt at <BR>jokes about GURPS:Philology.<BR><BR>I hope all SJG staff and freelancers will take this is in the not <BR>*quite* serious tenor it was intended.<BR><BR><BR>ALTERNATIVE TIMELINE<BR>(to Stiff Little Fingers' "Alternative Ulster")<BR><BR>Nothin for us in G:Trav<BR>Dulinor missed, it's a pity<BR>Ok, there's new books with pictures<BR>Just skip the goddamn rules<BR>We still got Strephon but we're supposed to cheer<BR>They don't even rebel you know<BR>They just want old times<BR>We keep buying it and hate it<BR><BR>What we don't need is<BR>An alternative timeline<BR>Grab it and shove it it's wrong<BR>Fight the alternative timeline<BR>Ignore the GURPS rules and stats<BR>Fight the alternative timeline<BR>Be an anti-status quo force<BR>Shoot our boring ruler<BR>Stop the Impy reign<BR><BR>Take a look what you're reading<BR>You got the same smug society<BR>And the new aliens in the modules<BR>Are just fucking lame<BR>Is this the kind of place you wanna game?<BR>Is this where you wanna play?<BR>Is this the new setting we've bought ourselves?<BR><BR>What we don't need is<BR>An alternative timeline<BR>Grab it and shove it it's wrong<BR>Fight the alternative timeline<BR>Ignore the GURPS rules and stats<BR>Fight the alternative timeline<BR>Be an anti-status quo force<BR>Shoot our boring ruler<BR>Stop the Impy reign<BR><BR>They say<BR>They've got content for you<BR>But that's not true, you know<BR>They say<BR>They're written by some of you<BR>And so fucking what, you know<BR>They say GURPS:Lite is there for<BR>Free, free, free<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 09:57:43 -0600<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Relativity &amp; FTL<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; &gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; &gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of James Jensen<BR>&gt; &gt; Sent: 14 December 2000 23:18<BR>&gt; &gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; &gt; Subject: Relativity &amp; FTL<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;[snip]<BR>&gt; &gt; Relativistic formulae don't help because their math quickly<BR>&gt; &gt; degenerates into &gt; crud (it's still impossible to square-root<BR>&gt; &gt; a negative number). But I assume that the *effects*<BR>&gt; &gt; postulated would continue to apply.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;Sorry for ignoring the rest of your post, but I got stopped here since<BR>&gt;you are wildly off beam with the square-root thing. Not only is it<BR>&gt;possible, but number theory - the basis for just about all modern<BR>&gt;mathematics - works around the complex-number structure (in which<BR>&gt;numbers have two components; a "real" - ie. countable - part and an<BR>&gt;"imaginary" part) where imaginary numbers are based on the fundamental<BR>&gt;value of the square root of minus one.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>I stand corrected. But it's still impossible to squareroot a negative number <BR>and come up with a real number, right?<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>http://members.nbci.com/cheebzero/<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________<BR>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 11:12:52 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Pirate Academy fight song?<BR><BR>Join us, won't you? as Kenji continues to revisit an unpleasant youth <BR>through the rosy twin lenses of musical nostalgia and Traveller.<BR><BR><BR><BR>JUMP OUT QUICK<BR>(Black Flag's "Rise Above")<BR><BR>patrol cruisers try to accost<BR>(jump out quick,<BR>(we're gonna jump out quick)<BR>they object to our trade<BR>(jump out quick,<BR>(we're gonna jump out quick)<BR>try and block where we fuel<BR>(jump out quick)<BR>before they hit us but good<BR><BR>we are tired of your debates<BR>try to stop us it's no use<BR><BR>imperial naval patrols<BR>(jump out quick,<BR>(we're gonna jump out quick)<BR>think they're efficient<BR>can't pay for themselves<BR>(jump out quick,<BR>(we're gonna jump out quick)<BR>ignore us<BR>in their accounts<BR>we make a profit<BR>from their oversights<BR><BR>we are tired of your debates<BR>try to stop us but it's no use<BR><BR>we are tired of your debates<BR>try to stop us but it's no use<BR><BR>we are fitted with a drop-tank<BR>(jump out quick,<BR>we're gonna jump out quick)<BR>I am gonna get away<BR>(jump out quick,<BR>we're gonna jump out quick)<BR><BR>we are fitted with a drop-tank<BR>(jump out quick,<BR>we're gonna jump out quick)<BR>I am gonna get away<BR>(jump out quick,<BR>we're gonna jump out quick)<BR><BR>we are tired of your debates<BR>try to stop us it's no use<BR><BR>jump out quick<BR>jump out quick<BR>jump out quick<BR>we're gonna jump out quick<BR>we're gonna jump out quick<BR>we're gonna jump out quick<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 07:53:45<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: AHHH! Sailor Moon! <BR><BR>At 07:56 PM 12/15/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Tuxedo Kamen ... Penguin Boy<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;It can't be a coincidence.<BR><BR>Nah.. if I had had cute girls like that hanging all over me in high school,<BR>I wouldn't have been such a stand-offish jerk.&nbsp; I would have been a<BR>panting, drooling jerk instead.&nbsp; As it was, I was an artistic jerk, and a Mod.<BR><BR>(For our younger readers: Mods are what British Goths were before vampires<BR>were cool.&nbsp; We also were a bit more active than your standard Goth.&nbsp; Thanks<BR>to The Who, many American teens in NorCal started wearing Army surplus<BR>ponchos and riding scooters.)<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 07:55:56<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Aw crap.....&nbsp; was:RE: Question<BR><BR>At 10:34 PM 12/15/2000 PST, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;And I doubt the audio would do justice to the Barretts, much less the<BR>&gt;Lahti and Solothurn. :-)<BR><BR>*thud* ow! *thud* ow! *thud* ow! *thud* ow! *thud* ow! *thud* ow! *thud* ow!<BR><BR>That's the sound of me kicking myself for missing the shoot this year.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 07:58:38<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>At 11:27 PM 12/14/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;My first name is a surname. This is quite common among people of <BR>&gt;Scots ancestry. Presumably other groups have the same tradition. BTW <BR>&gt;it means round hill. My middle name means bright warrior.<BR><BR>Both my names can be used in either position.&nbsp; Since I got in the habit of<BR>"last name first" in the Army (Berry, Douglas E.) I get called Mr. Douglas<BR>a lot.<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 08:01:55<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>At 01:37 AM 12/16/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>&gt;Gordon Horne wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;No!&nbsp; Of course not!&nbsp; It's just -- sleeping!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;It's pining for your posts.<BR><BR>Listen mate, when I signed onto that list, you assured me that its complete<BR>lack of posts was due to everyone meditating on the jots of the<BR>double-glottal stop...<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp;&nbsp; Templar Agent at Large.<BR>gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR><BR>TravGeekCode: <BR>tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i<BR>ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 08:04:21<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>At 01:31 PM 12/16/2000 +0200, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;And in practice the situation is not unlike European in the US. I think<BR>&gt;you still have to tell different entities where you live, so you can get<BR>&gt;mail, insurance and such things.<BR><BR>At one point in my life, my only address was a post office box, and I paid<BR>my rent in cash.&nbsp; It was as close as I've ever come to completely dropping<BR>off the state's radar.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 08:07:41<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>At 01:20 AM 12/17/2000 +1300, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Why does the US persist in clinging to it hugely inefficent insurance model <BR>&gt;of health care? Why does the US allow so many blatantly "silly" law suits? <BR>&gt;Why does the US have such a problem with gun control? Why does the <BR>&gt;US so fear its own government? All these things seem quite baffling to me, <BR>&gt;yet I assume they all make perfect sense if you're on the inside.<BR><BR>Actually, the first two are the subjects of unending debate.<BR><BR>The latter comes from our history.&nbsp; We gained independence by throwing off<BR>a colonial ruler we found tyranical.&nbsp; The Revolution started when the<BR>British attempted to seize an armory, and met up with hastily organized<BR>colonial minutemen.&nbsp; We have a tradition of not trusting our government to<BR>do everything for us.<BR><BR>That's why "I'm from the government, I'm here to help you" is a joke.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 08:15:41<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote Democratic<BR><BR>At 11:27 PM 12/15/2000 EST, you wrote:<BR>&gt;One of the more interesting features of ethnic politics in Chicago, so I am <BR>&gt;told, is that the city council will rename a street if a 2/3 majority of the <BR>&gt;residents can agree on a name -- giving a lot of short streets names <BR>&gt;important to neighborhood groups. <BR><BR>Urk.&nbsp; San francisco is in the grips of renaming fever.<BR><BR>A few years back, the Board of Stupes voted to name a street for Ceaser<BR>Chavez, of United Farm Workers fame.&nbsp; The problems came when they decided<BR>to rename Army St.&nbsp; This caused an only in SF political fight, with<BR>accusastions of being un-American and being racist flying about with the<BR>usual vigor.<BR><BR>The only sane suggestion was to rename S. Van Ness.&nbsp; Do we really need two<BR>streets named after this guy?&nbsp; But no, the City insisted, and now everybody<BR>ignores the real name and still calls it Army St.<BR><BR>ObTrav: Think of all the fun you could have with traditional names vs. the<BR>one on the map.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 08:18:28<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3391<BR><BR>At 12:22 AM 12/16/2000 EST, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;"Little Odessa". I've been told that the 5th Precinct in Chinatown has the <BR>&gt;same in Mandarin and Cantonese...:-)<BR><BR>Minor point:&nbsp; All Chinese sub-languages use the same written language.&nbsp; So<BR>even if you can't understand a word the other guy is saying, you can pass<BR>notes.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 08:20:01<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: What ethnicity is the US?<BR><BR>At 11:35 PM 12/15/2000 EST, you wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; What ethnicity is the US?&nbsp; Mongrel.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I often think it is our greatest strength. At least it makes for some great <BR>&gt;eating . . . all those ethnic restaurants. I remember Vanessi's in SF with <BR>&gt;great fondness. And some dim sum place upstairs over some place in<BR>&gt;Chinatown.<BR><BR>If you ever make it out for BayCon, I'll have Kirsten take you to the best<BR>sushi place in town (I can't stand the stuff myself, but the beer is good.)<BR><BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 10:20:45 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: CLIMAX!&nbsp; Conclusion to the Traveller Adventure<BR><BR>"Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; WOW, great introduction. I think Ill forward it to my group right away.<BR>&gt; I cant wait to read the next installments.<BR><BR>You know...a person never knows if he's making people roll their eyes with<BR>posts like that...or if someone actually found something useful in it.<BR><BR>Thanks for letting me know.&nbsp; I'll go ahead and post the second document (by<BR>the way, the text is a lot prettier in my formatted Word program--it seems<BR>to loose something in this plain, courier environment).<BR><BR>Thanks.<BR><BR>Kenneht.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 16:28:52 -0000<BR>From: "Ben Aaronovitch" &lt;bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>You know, these posts have been a revelation.<BR><BR>I didn't know that anyone has naming laws at all.<BR><BR>PS: is it true that the US government can ban US citizens from visiting certain<BR>foriegn countries?<BR><BR>Ben<BR><BR>'Let's be honest here - you paid for the women.'<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Bill Murrey - Scrooged<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 08:36:56 -0800<BR>From: "Bruce Macintosh" &lt;bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net&gt;<BR>Subject: re: Relativistic addition of velocities<BR><BR>&gt;The formula that I've been seeing for adding velocities A and B is<BR>&gt;(A+B)/(1+AB)<BR>&gt;Somehow, I remember a factor of reciprocal c^2 in there:<BR>&gt;(A+B)/(1+(AB/(C^2)))<BR>&gt;Could someone explain to me why I'm remembering wrong, and where that<BR>&gt;memory comes from?<BR>Presumably the first formula is in units where c=1 (a favourite for<BR>physicists.)<BR><BR>Bruce<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 10:36:03 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Oh no!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Dune Messiah is *terrible*.... It's the worst book in the series until<BR>&gt; the much later stuff where Herbert just started cranking out books (say<BR>&gt; after the 5th sequel or so)<BR><BR>You're not the first person to have said that to me (although I've read<BR>some good reviews on amazon), but, I'll admit, I am really enjoying the<BR>book so far.<BR><BR>The Face Dancer is cool!&nbsp; And, I liked how the boy with no eyes used his<BR>basilet to imprint a message on him.<BR><BR>The tone of the book is different, so far--it has a different "feel" than<BR>Dune.&nbsp; I can't quite put my finger on it.&nbsp; It seems to focus on the<BR>"intrigue" of the conspiracy--not that there wasn't intrigue in Dune (far<BR>from it), but this feels a bit different.<BR><BR>I've only read a 5th of the book.&nbsp; I'm on page 67 of 331.&nbsp;&nbsp; But, so far,<BR>I'm not disappointed at all.&nbsp; There's still a lot of book in which to<BR>change my mind, but the different "direction" the plot is taking has gotten<BR>me.&nbsp; I like it when stories grow and branch in unexpected directions.<BR><BR>(And...some of the conspirators really surprised me).<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 16:38:34 -0000<BR>From: "Ben Aaronovitch" &lt;bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: What ethnicity is the US?<BR><BR>Strictly speaking that's the ethnicity of just about every where.<BR><BR>Ben<BR><BR>Writing from London, mixing ethnic groups since 45 AD(1)<BR><BR>'Let's be honest here - you paid for the women.'<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Bill Murrey - Scrooged<BR><BR>1. some time around there any way.<BR><BR><BR>- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>From: &lt;GDWGAMES@aol.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 4:35 AM<BR>Subject: Re: What ethnicity is the US?<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt; What ethnicity is the US?&nbsp; Mongrel.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I often think it is our greatest strength. At least it makes for some great <BR>&gt; eating . . . all those ethnic restaurants. I remember Vanessi's in SF with <BR>&gt; great fondness. And some dim sum place upstairs over some place in Chinatown.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; LKW<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 08:40:25 -0800<BR>From: "Bruce Macintosh" &lt;bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net&gt;<BR>Subject: re: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology<BR><BR>&gt;2) Hubble determined that everything is flying away from everything else.<BR>&gt;But we have photographs of galaxies colliding, which clearly means that<BR>&gt;they're NOT flying apart. Therefore, it seems that the expansion phenomenon<BR>&gt;is happening only at a very, very large scale. Where's the break point?<BR><BR>Roughly speaking, the scale is the scale of galactic groups or clusters.<BR>Andromeda (M31) is moving towards us - it's part of the Local Group.<BR>The Virgo Cluster (nearest big galaxy cluster) is mostly moving away as part of<BR>the Hubble Flow. There are perturbations on top of the whole thing, but<BR>basically<BR>the break point is at the scale of groups or clusters of galaxies (several<BR>million parsecs.)<BR><BR>Bruce<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 08:43:37<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>At 04:28 PM 12/16/2000 -0000, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;PS: is it true that the US government can ban US citizens from visiting<BR>&gt;certain foriegn countries?<BR><BR>Right now, I think the only one on that list is Cuba, and the US State<BR>department just refuses to process visas.&nbsp; If you go to Canada you can get<BR>a flight to Havana easily enough.<BR><BR>The do keep a list of countries that Americans should avoid.<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 10:42:21 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR><BR>And one more thing...the books are so doggone "quotable".<BR><BR>"Arrakis.&nbsp; Dune.&nbsp; Desert planet."<BR><BR>"God created Arrakis to test the faithful."<BR><BR>"Empires do not suffer emptiness of purpose at the time of their creation.&nbsp; It<BR>is when they have become established that aims are lost and replaced by vague<BR>ritual."<BR><BR>"Long live the fighers!"<BR><BR>(so many more...)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 10:49:37 -0600<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR><BR>Oooh. I just have to nitpick here.<BR><BR>&gt;"God created Arrakis to test the faithful."<BR><BR>"We Fremen have a saying: 'God created Arrakis to train the faithful.' One <BR>cannot go against the word of God."<BR><BR>BTW, has anyone else noticed the heavy Judaeistic (Jewish) overtones in this <BR>book? I mean, Paul *is* the long-awaited savior of the universe...<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>http://members.nbci.com/cheebzero/<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________<BR>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 16:49:06 -0000<BR>From: "Ben Aaronovitch" &lt;bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>So the Government can't actually ban you from going to a country? Legally I<BR>mean.<BR><BR>Ben<BR><BR>'Let's be honest here - you paid for the women.'<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Bill Murrey - Scrooged<BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: Douglas E. Berry &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 8:43 AM<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR><BR>&gt; At 04:28 PM 12/16/2000 -0000, you wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;PS: is it true that the US government can ban US citizens from visiting<BR>&gt; &gt;certain foriegn countries?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Right now, I think the only one on that list is Cuba, and the US State<BR>&gt; department just refuses to process visas.&nbsp; If you go to Canada you can get<BR>&gt; a flight to Havana easily enough.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The do keep a list of countries that Americans should avoid.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>&gt; http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3402<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yh05.mx.aol.com (rly-yh05.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.37]) by air-yh02.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Sat, 16 Dec 2000 11:53:22 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yh05.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Sat, 16 Dec 2000 11:53:08 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id LAA41863;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Sat, 16 Dec 2000 11:52:27 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Sat, 16 Dec 2000 11:52:12 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id LAA41819<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Sat, 16 Dec 2000 11:52:12 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 11:52:12 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012161652.LAA41819@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3402<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Saturday, December 16 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3403<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR>(1) PROLOGUE to the Traveller Adventure<BR>(2) PROLOGUE to the Traveller Adventure<BR>(3) PROLOGUE to the Traveller Adventure<BR>Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR>Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR>(4) PROLOGUE to the Traveller Adventure<BR>(5) PROLOGUE to the Traveller Adventure<BR>(0) PROLOGUE to the Traveller Adventure<BR>Re: Relativity &amp; FTL<BR>RE: TEDs<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3391<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>TNE (was: TEDs)<BR>Re: CLIMAX!&nbsp; Conclusion to the Traveller Adventure<BR>Re: OT big time<BR>Re: CLIMAX!&nbsp; Conclusion to the Traveller Adventure<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 11:02:01 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR><BR>James Jensen wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; "We Fremen have a saying: 'God created Arrakis to train the faithful.' One<BR>&gt; cannot go against the word of God."<BR><BR>Or...one of the ones I love..."My brother is coming!"<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; BTW, has anyone else noticed the heavy Judaeistic (Jewish) overtones in this<BR>&gt; book? I mean, Paul *is* the long-awaited savior of the universe...<BR><BR>Oh yeah.&nbsp; No doubt.&nbsp; I understand that Herbert did 5 years of research before<BR>writing the book (or three, if you conider much of the first three were written<BR>at the same time).<BR><BR>I don't think it is a coincidence that Arrakis is a desert world.&nbsp; I'm just<BR>surprised he didn't call the book "The Planet Israel".<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 11:15:28 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: (1) PROLOGUE to the Traveller Adventure<BR><BR>TRAVELLER<BR><BR>PROLOGUE<BR><BR>(Events preceding the TRAVELLER ADVENTURE)<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Jump Space.&nbsp; Its discovery is the greatest the universe has ever known.<BR><BR>The invention that harnessed the theory of jump space, allowing beings<BR>to leave their homeworlds and visit the stars, has affected every<BR>species to have lived in this arm of the galaxy since history was first<BR>recorded.<BR><BR>Use of the jump drive has had an impact on every culture in Known<BR>Spacean impact greater than the invention of the printing press...the<BR>discovery of electricity...implementation of the micro<BR>processor...knowledge of anti-gravity fields.<BR><BR>It is not surprising that the six species to have independently<BR>discovered jump space and develop jump technology dominate Known Space<BR>today.&nbsp; Humaniti, the Aslan, the Vargr, The Hive, the Kkree, and the<BR>Droyne all developed jump capability without outside influence, before<BR>first contact was made with another alien species.&nbsp; All these races,<BR>with the exception of the Droyne, control the largest star-spanning<BR>empires in existence.<BR><BR>Because, without the technology to jump through the stars, interstellar<BR>governments are an impossibility.<BR><BR><BR><BR>The Imperium today encompasses 23 sectors--281 subsectorsapproximately<BR>11,000 worlds.&nbsp; Communication transmissions travel at the ultimate limit<BR>of the speed of light.&nbsp; If a transmission is beamed from Terra to a<BR>world on the Imperial coreward border, the transmission will take just<BR>under 776 standard years to reach its destination.<BR><BR>The Imperium is vast.&nbsp; It could not exist without jump technology.<BR><BR>When a starship enters jump, the jump drive rips a whole in normal<BR>space, allowing the ship to transverse jump space (where space is folded<BR>and distances between points are shorter), returning to normal space at<BR>a predetermined point.&nbsp; The trip in jump space always takes a standard<BR>week, give or take.<BR><BR>By comparison, regarding a slow jump drive, light will travel that same<BR>distance in 3.26 years3.26 years versus a lag time of a week.&nbsp; If you<BR>are talking about the fastest jump drive known to existused only on<BR>high tech Imperial military vesselswhen the starship exits jump space<BR>the ship will have traveled the same distance light travels in just over<BR>16 years.<BR><BR>The Jump Drive:&nbsp; There is no faster means of travel.<BR><BR>And, there is no faster mode of interstellar communication.&nbsp; Scientists<BR>have not yet been successful beaming messages through jump space.<BR>Messages have been attempted, but a device is required to rip open jump<BR>space, allowing the transmission to reenter regular space at the<BR>destination point.<BR><BR>Because of this, galactic communication, in a way, is reduced to a mode<BR>not unlike that which Earth faced in its 17th centurycommunication<BR>speed dependent on the fastest means of travel.&nbsp; In ancient Earths<BR>case, this was the horse.&nbsp; In the Imperium, communication travels at the<BR>speed of a starship.<BR><BR>Think of the implications this has on interstellar society.&nbsp; Because of<BR>the jump drive, there is interstellar communication, interstellar trade,<BR>interstellar travel.&nbsp; The Imperial government can communicate with its<BR>defensive troops on the empires borders.&nbsp; The economic health of the<BR>Imperium is dependent, in part, on the network of jump routes branching<BR>through the empire.&nbsp; And people can leave the world they are on, if they<BR>so choose, and travel to a place they would never be able to visit were<BR>jump drive not a reality.<BR><BR>It is not a surprise then, that one of the Imperiums most prized<BR>aspects of infrastructureframe work, if you will, that intergalactic<BR>society rests uponis the network of jump routes.<BR><BR>Bad governmental policy toward maintaining jump routes could lead to the<BR>fall of the entire Imperium.<BR><BR>This was an aspect of Imperial government not fully respected by either<BR>the Vilani empire or the Solomani Rule of Man.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 11:16:38 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: (2) PROLOGUE to the Traveller Adventure<BR><BR>The Imperial Frontier:&nbsp; the Spinward Marches.<BR><BR>The Milky Way galaxy is basically a ball of stars, spinning in a<BR>rotation like a planet, with giant arms of stars spiraling out from the<BR>center of the ball.&nbsp; The dense grouping of stars in the ball is<BR>referred to as the galactic core.&nbsp; One of the arms, spiraling out from<BR>the galactic equator, contains Earth and the other 11,000 star systems<BR>of the Third Imperiumin fact, all of Explored Space is contained in a<BR>small fraction of this one galactic arm.<BR><BR>If you mark a plane through the galactic equator, which bisects the core<BR>and the galactic arms, you will have the basis for modern interstellar<BR>mapping.<BR><BR>Star systems that lie toward the central core are termed as being<BR>coreward (galactic north, if you will).&nbsp; Those that lie toward the<BR>rim of the spiral arm are referred to as lying rimward (galactic<BR>south).<BR><BR>The other two designations lie in either the direction of the galactic<BR>spin, or spinward (galactic west), or in the direction from which the<BR>galaxy has just rotated--trailing (galactic east).<BR><BR>From these four galactic directions, any planet or star can be foundin<BR>the same manner as finding a city on a world using the<BR>north-south-east-west system of directions.<BR><BR>Imperial mapping conventions further break areas of space down into<BR>sectorslarge rectangles in space marking the borders of different<BR>regions.&nbsp; Each sector contains hundreds of star systems, and they are<BR>further broken down into subsectors.&nbsp; When a planet is mentioned in<BR>print, you will also usually see the planets sector and subsector<BR>listedits galactic address, if you will.<BR><BR>At the farthest reaches of the Imperium, lying spinward from the<BR>Imperial capital, is a sector of space designated as the Spinward<BR>Marches.&nbsp; It is the frontier, explored and settled by the Solomani over<BR>600 years ago.&nbsp; Here, Imperial worlds lie bunched up against client<BR>states, the broken kingdoms of the alien Vargr, and the empire of<BR>another human race called the Zhodani.<BR><BR>Aramis is a subsector of this region, governed by the Marquis Leonard<BR>Bolden-Tukera.&nbsp; It consists of 26 solar systems, which float in the<BR>lonely dark void of space, exactly on the border between the Third<BR>Imperium and the Vargr Extents.<BR><BR>It is here that the Traveller Adventure is setbeginning on a planet<BR>also called Aramis, the subsector capital and the personal fief of<BR>Marquis Bolden-Tukera.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 11:18:54 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: (3) PROLOGUE to the Traveller Adventure<BR><BR>The Oberlindes Lines contract.<BR><BR>The major shipping companies owned by the megacorporations service the<BR>solar systems lying on the major jump routes.&nbsp; All other planets in the<BR>frontier regions of the Imperium (those not fortunate enough to find<BR>themselves on an established jump route) must rely on transport, trade,<BR>mail and communication service provided by smaller companies and<BR>independent merchant operators called Free Traders.<BR><BR>Oberlindes Lines is one of these smaller companies.&nbsp; Headed by Marc<BR>halt-Oberlindes, noble born, Baron of the planet Feri, the company is<BR>based in the Regina subsectora direct neighbor region to Aramis.<BR><BR>The Oberlindes operation employs company-owned ships and maintains trade<BR>routes in the Regina subsector not serviced by the major transporters.<BR>Oberlindes contracts with independent Free Traders as well, servicing<BR>systems which lie off-the-beaten-path, on jump routes not serviced by<BR>Oberlindes company shipping.<BR><BR>23 years ago, the Emperor ordered a subsidy program be initiated in<BR>several subsectors of the frontier.&nbsp; This Imperial initiative included<BR>the subsectors of Regina and Aramis in the Spinward Marches.&nbsp; The<BR>Emperors goal:&nbsp; To increase communication, trade, and shipping in these<BR>regionsparamount to growth and prosperity of the Imperium along the<BR>frontier.<BR><BR>Oberlindes Lines won the contract for the Aramis subsector, allowing the<BR>company to push out from the star systems in Regina to the new markets<BR>in Aramis.<BR><BR>But, this was an event that shocked the industry.<BR><BR>The competition for any government shipping contract is usually fierce,<BR>but this battle was markedly so.&nbsp; The megacorporation Tukera was<BR>considered the frontrunnerthe Marquis of Aramis, himself, a member of<BR>the Tukera noble family by marriage.&nbsp; When it was announced that tiny<BR>(by comparison) Oberlindes Lines had won against the political<BR>juggernaut of Tukera Lines, many mouths fell agape, from noble and<BR>commoner alike.<BR><BR>Marc hault-Oberlindes victory came at a costly expense, though.&nbsp; The<BR>Baron had alienated himself to one of the largest of the empires<BR>thirteen megacorporations, Tukera Lines.&nbsp; The relationship between the<BR>two companies would only worsen over the years, and today, over two<BR>decades later, sabotage and deadly confrontations are not uncommon when<BR>the encounters can be hidden from the eyes of authority.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 11:20:20 -0600<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR><BR>&gt; James Jensen wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; "We Fremen have a saying: 'God created Arrakis to train the faithful.'<BR>One<BR>&gt; &gt; cannot go against the word of God."<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Or...one of the ones I love..."My brother is coming!"<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>What about, "Look into that place you dare not look! You'll find me there,<BR>staring back at you!" I think that this was only from the original movie,<BR>because I cna't seem to find it in the book, but it's a good one.<BR><BR>&gt; I don't think it is a coincidence that Arrakis is a desert world.&nbsp; I'm<BR>just<BR>&gt; surprised he didn't call the book "The Planet Israel".<BR><BR>I'd never thought of that before. Thanks for pointing that out.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>http://members.nbci.com/cheebzero/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:25:50 -0500<BR>From: "Paul Drye" &lt;p_drye@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR><BR>&gt;BTW, has anyone else noticed the heavy Judaeistic (Jewish) overtones in <BR>&gt;this book? I mean, Paul *is* the long-awaited savior of the universe...<BR><BR>A lot of religions get a swing at the piata in "Dune". In my opinion, Islam <BR>is the biggest influence, with Arrakis as Arabia, the Fremen as the Arabs, <BR>and Paul as Mohammed. There's also a lot of Arabic and pseudo-Arabic in the <BR>unusual words Frank Herbert throws around.<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Paul Drye<BR><BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 11:24:56 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: (4) PROLOGUE to the Traveller Adventure<BR><BR>The MARCH Program.<BR><BR>Emperor Strephons initiative to increase trade and communication on the<BR>Imperiums frontier became known as the MARCH Programso named for the<BR>sector the program was designed to improve, the Spinward Marches.&nbsp; The<BR>backbone of the Emperors plan was government subsidy, and new starships<BR>were needed to attract subsidy holders.<BR><BR>In 1083, the Imperium contracted with top ship-builders in the Spinward<BR>Marches.&nbsp; General Shipyards, Ling Standard Products, GSbAG, and Clan<BR>Severn were the major contractors, but several other builders produced<BR>ships in lower quantities.&nbsp; Each company produced ships based on the<BR>standard Fat Trader specification--400 ton March class Type R merchant<BR>vessels with Jump-1 capability.<BR><BR>Since the goal of this program was to increase trade and communication<BR>in out-of-the-way solar systems, the completed vessels were transported<BR>to their subsidy routesall located in close clusters of stars, all<BR>reachable by a one parsec trip through jump space.<BR><BR>The Jump-1 drives would save on expense in lieu of more powerful jump<BR>engines, and the short range capability of the starships ensured<BR>subsidized Free Trader captains would not look outside their subsidy<BR>route for trade and profit, defeating the purpose of the March Program.<BR><BR>Each of the vessels created under this program were christened with the<BR>word March in their names, designating them as part of the Emperors<BR>subsidy program for the Spinward Marches.<BR><BR>The MARCH HARRIER was one of these vessels.&nbsp; Laid down on 363-1083, the<BR>ship was completed at the Naasirka shipyards on Aramis and flew its<BR>first flight 14 months later on 060-1085.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 11:26:35 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: (5) PROLOGUE to the Traveller Adventure<BR><BR>The MARCH HARRIER.<BR><BR>Like every other vessel in the March Program, the HARRIER was a<BR>subsidized vessel.&nbsp; Commissioned by the Imperial government under the<BR>Program, the ship was licensed, at no cost, to Oberlindes Lines under<BR>terms of their subsidy contract.<BR><BR>Oberlindes, in turn, found an owner/operator for the vessel to service<BR>the Aramis Trace, a star cluster of 8 systems spread out in the Aramis,<BR>Rhylanor, and Sabine subsectors.<BR><BR>Home port for the vessel is the planet Aramis, capital of the Aramis<BR>subsector, and the terms of the subsidy agreement were thus:&nbsp; The<BR>Imperial government commissioned the creation of the ship through the<BR>Naasirka shipyards on Aramis, and Naasirka was paid with Imperial funds.<BR><BR>The Imperium then lend-leased the vessel to the subsidy holder (in this<BR>case, Oberlindes) at no cost.&nbsp; Oberlindes takes a profit by selling the<BR>ship to a Free Trader owner/operator--who agrees to service the subsidy<BR>route while the ship is being paid for.&nbsp; In the case of the MARCH<BR>HARRIER, the term of purchase was 40 standard years.<BR><BR>Owner/Operators, under the March Program, are required to make a 20%<BR>down payment on the vessel, but they are not required to make fixed<BR>monthly payments, which is standard in most starship-purchase<BR>arrangements.&nbsp; Instead, 50% of all gross revenues received from<BR>operation of the ship are remitted to the subsidy agent (Oberlindes).<BR><BR>This arrangement is attractive to owner/operators because, after the 20%<BR>down payment, purchase of the starship is made on a commission type<BR>basis--making ownership of a vessel much less risky than if a<BR>requirement was made for a fixed amount to be paid on the starship each<BR>month.<BR><BR>Oberlindes is compensated for maintaining the subsidy route by<BR>generating revenue on a vessel that cost them nothing.<BR><BR>It was an ingenious arrangement and testament to Emperor Strephons<BR>Imperial leadership.&nbsp; Commoners of the empire were benefited by the<BR>opportunity given them to own a starship at a greatly reduced cost and<BR>rate of financial risk.&nbsp; Oberlindes, in return for managing the subsidy<BR>routes, turned a profit on selling starships that were gifted to the<BR>company.&nbsp; And, the Imperial government succeeded in its goal to bring<BR>increased trade and communication to backwater regions of the empires<BR>frontier.<BR><BR>The March Program was one of Emperor Strephons master strokeshe<BR>devised a plan to enrich the economy of the Imperium over a 40 year<BR>period at the cost of a few starshipsnothing compared to the accepted<BR>costs of running an interstellar empire.<BR><BR>It was brilliant.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 11:28:52 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: (0) PROLOGUE to the Traveller Adventure<BR><BR>I thought, for this second document, I'd break it up into parts for easy<BR>reading.<BR><BR>What you've got here is the second doc I've written to re-introduce my<BR>players to my Traveller campaign, based around (with a lot of liberties)<BR>the classic Traveller Adventure book.<BR><BR>In this one, you'll get a mention of jump drives and jump space--with a<BR>focus on just how vital that discovery/invention is to an interstellar<BR>empire.&nbsp; (I wrote this section, mainly, to introduce my new player to<BR>the Traveller universe--but I also wanted to reinforce with my older<BR>players the importance of a network of jump routes, since that is such<BR>an important aspect of the plot).<BR><BR>In the second section of this document, I wanted to give the players a<BR>since of where their characters are in this grand Third Imperium<BR>(discussed in the first document I posted).&nbsp; The second section gives<BR>them info on the Spinward Marches and the Aramis subsector.<BR><BR>In the third section, I begin to set up the plot of my Traveller<BR>Adventure campaign.&nbsp; I begin to expound on the Oberlindes contract.<BR><BR>I kinda took the "subsidy" issue of a 400 ton subsidized merchant and<BR>ran with it--bringing both complexity and detail to the issue that will<BR>(hopefully) actually make the subsidy of the March Harrier a real and<BR>believeable.&nbsp; You'll see that play out in the subsequent sections.<BR><BR>The fourth section expands on what I started in section three:&nbsp; You<BR>learn more about the emperor's March Program.<BR><BR>And the last section explains how the March Harrier was created under<BR>this Imperial subsidy program, connecting all that I've been saying in<BR>this document (the background prologue to the story) to something<BR>important to the PCs (the ship).<BR><BR>In my last document (not yet completed), I will get specific about how<BR>the campaign has played out thus far, reminding my players of all that<BR>we played two years ago.<BR><BR>Enjoy!<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 09:38:10 -0800<BR>From: Kristian Miller &lt;travellerne@3rd-imperium.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity &amp; FTL<BR><BR>Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm wrote:<BR>...<BR>&gt; Example:&nbsp;&nbsp; e^(i*pi) = -1<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Not very intuitive, but true all the same.<BR><BR>Actually, it is intuitive.&nbsp; Look at DeMoivre's formula; rewrite it in<BR>the form e^(iT) (T = the angle).&nbsp; When T = pi, the point is at (-1, 0i)<BR>= -1 (on the real-imaginary plane).&nbsp; If you get a math book on complex<BR>analysis, this should be demonstrated in one of the first chapters--when<BR>you see it drawn out, you'll go "Ah ha!"<BR><BR>Someone once said that e^(i*pi + 0) = -1 was the true statement that<BR>contained every important number in mathematics--all other numbers could<BR>be derived from these numbers and operations.<BR><BR>Kristian<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 13:19:48 -0500<BR>From: "Chris Seamans" &lt;semo@pil.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: TEDs<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;It also doesn't help that GDW very clearly said that the RC were going to<BR>&gt;survive and "win".&nbsp; I would rather they had left it a little more open:<BR>&gt;these people _may_ succeed, or they may fail, and that's what the game is<BR>&gt;basically about.&nbsp; (Of course there are some interesting elements in the<BR>&gt;"future" material that suggests that "winning" isn't quite what happened,<BR>&gt;but that is another story - and a pretty stupid one, I suspect.)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Most of the material written by future historians acknowledges that the<BR>Coalition survives and succeeds on some level, but nothing is ever actually<BR>pinned down. We know that they "win", but we are never told the extent and<BR>nature of their victories.<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;Anyway, there is nothing wrong with the RC setting.&nbsp; It's just not quite as<BR>&gt;heroic as it is sometimes claimed to be, and its enemies aren't quite so<BR>&gt;villainous.&nbsp; Big deal.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; The funny part is that I don't think that the RCES is ever presented as<BR>being unambiguously heroic. It's possible to play them as unambiguously<BR>heroic, I imagine, but that never seemed to be what Dave Nilsen was driving<BR>at. After all, there's that bit in the core rulebook which has three<BR>different views of the RCES, presented as if they were written by future<BR>historians, and they're not all that flattering. A few pages later, a<BR>Regency historian examines the "Star Viking" tag and in doing so tries to<BR>come to grips with their "militant ecumenism", and there's more than a<BR>little Rousseau in the motives he ascribes to them.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; There were a lot of interesting things going on in the background, though.<BR>There were a lot of hints which were dropped about where the line would go.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; The Coalition was on the verge of becoming a victim of its own success. The<BR>economy of the Coalition and the modernization of the core worlds were both<BR>fueled by the liberation of artifacts and technical knowledge. In order to<BR>get their hands on these things, the RCES had to "liberate" new worlds. This<BR>would create new markets and these new markets would put new demands on the<BR>economy of the Coalition. In order to meet these demands, the RCES would<BR>have to "liberate" new worlds. This, in turn, would create new markets and<BR>the whole cycle would begin again. This apparent contradiction was a major<BR>part of the setting. Further, it looks as if this contradiction was about to<BR>spiral out of control.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; How the Coalition member worlds would come to grips with all of this was<BR>always up in the air. Returning RCES members sometimes found it hard to see<BR>the differences between the TEDs they were knocking down out in the wilds<BR>and the governments of some of the member worlds. There was also a delicate<BR>balance between the Aubani-led Federalists and the Oriflammen-led Centrists.<BR>Aubane and Oriflamme were roughly equal in power, but due to the nature of<BR>the balance, that could all change in a moment. There was also a growing<BR>resistance movement on Oriflamme, and growing tensions between Aubane and<BR>its neighbors. There there were the Hivers, the Ithklur and the Schalli, and<BR>Virus, each of which were important in their own way.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Add to all of this the fact that each individual world was performing its<BR>own RCES and freelance operations for its own purposes, and that the worlds<BR>of the Coalition had different ends in mind and... well... you have an<BR>amazingly deep background to adventure against.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I firmly believe that if the line had continued, things would have gotten a<BR>lot more interesting than the way it sits now, with only a handful of<BR>supplements. If anything, the setting currently suffers from the lessons of<BR>Classic Traveller and, to a lesser extent, MegaTraveller. If you give away<BR>too much too quickly, then the setting quickly becomes much less interesting<BR>for everybody involved. However, if you don't give away everything before<BR>the line dies, then the setting becomes frozen in time forever at the state<BR>it was in at the time. As a result, TNE will always be Star Vikings and<BR>TEDs. Unfortunately, there's quite a bit of compelling evidence which<BR>indicates that this wasn't the story that Dave Nilsen and Co. set out to<BR>tell.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; So, to try to answer the question that started this thread in the first<BR>place:<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; TEDs are only incompetent because, at least at the time that the events in<BR>the core rulebook and supplements are set, the RCES has the element of<BR>surprise on its side. The RCES also has the advantage of being able to pick<BR>and choose its targets. There is no indication that the action of the<BR>setting was going to consist entirely of pushover TEDs. Each of the worlds<BR>presented in "Path of Tears" would be problematic for the Coalition to deal<BR>with, both in execution and post-attack integration. Indeed, one of the<BR>worlds has a population of over four times that of the entire Coalition.<BR>I've always wondered what was in store for that world,&nbsp; plot-wise.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I've kind of gotten off track here now, but in short, I agree with you<BR>wholeheartedly, or something like that.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 13:13:00 -0500<BR>From: knightsky@juno.com<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3391<BR><BR>&gt; Ob Trav: There REALLY should be more detailed language rules to <BR>&gt; irritate <BR>&gt; PC's...:-)<BR><BR>No keyboard kill, but this did get an "evil GM" chuckle out of me... <BR><BR><BR>Perry<BR>"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>________________________________________________________________<BR>GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!<BR>Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!<BR>Join Juno today!&nbsp; For your FREE software, visit:<BR>http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 13:54:46 -0500<BR>From: knightsky@juno.com<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>On Sat, 16 Dec 2000 08:43:37 "Douglas E. Berry"<BR>&lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt; writes:<BR>&gt; At 04:28 PM 12/16/2000 -0000, you wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;PS: is it true that the US government can ban US citizens from <BR>&gt; visiting<BR>&gt; &gt;certain foriegn countries?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Right now, I think the only one on that list is Cuba, and the US <BR>&gt; State<BR>&gt; department just refuses to process visas.&nbsp; If you go to Canada you <BR>&gt; can get<BR>&gt; a flight to Havana easily enough.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The do keep a list of countries that Americans should avoid.<BR><BR>ObTrav: The US has it's own Amber Zone classifications...<BR><BR><BR>Perry<BR>"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>________________________________________________________________<BR>GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!<BR>Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!<BR>Join Juno today!&nbsp; For your FREE software, visit:<BR>http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 13:52:17 -0500<BR>From: knightsky@juno.com<BR>Subject: TNE (was: TEDs)<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;You know, I was actually considering breaking down and finally<BR>&gt; &gt;buying a copy of TNE... but it looks like my initial fears were<BR>&gt; &gt;justified (something always struck me as "wrong" from what little I<BR>&gt; &gt;heard of TNE, but I could never quite place my finger on it).&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; No, no!&nbsp; Don't let what John and I wrote stop you from buying TNE.<BR>&gt; Read the material, make up you mind whether the Star Vikings are<BR>&gt; heros, villians or something in between...my take is *really* all<BR>&gt; the above.&nbsp; :-)&nbsp; <BR><BR>I wasn't overly thrilled by TNE (or more specifically, my impressions of<BR>TNE, since I've never actually purchesed it) when it first came out, more<BR>than anything by what I perceived to be it's "style over substance"<BR>approach.&nbsp; One of the things that I love about CT is that is not flashy,<BR>but has a lot of meat to it.<BR><BR>I had a chance to pick up a copy of TNE on eBay for $3+shipping a few<BR>weeks back, but it sounds like it was just as well I didn't get it.<BR><BR>Still, to be fair... is there anywhere on the net that I can find a<BR>detailed desription of the setting of TNE, and how a TNE campaign would<BR>actually be played (something a little more detailed than "well, there<BR>was the Virus, and it destroyed the Imperium...")? <BR><BR><BR>Perry<BR>"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>________________________________________________________________<BR>GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!<BR>Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!<BR>Join Juno today!&nbsp; For your FREE software, visit:<BR>http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 13:44:42 -0500<BR>From: knightsky@juno.com<BR>Subject: Re: CLIMAX!&nbsp; Conclusion to the Traveller Adventure<BR><BR>&gt; I'm posting this here for two reasons:&nbsp; (1)&nbsp; I know that other GMs, <BR>&gt; like<BR>&gt; me, like reading things like this, and (2)&nbsp; I know that some people <BR>&gt; my<BR>&gt; see something they would like to cut and paste into their <BR>&gt; game--whether<BR>&gt; it be a general introduction to the human race (in this post) or the<BR>&gt; background I've fleshed out leading up to the events in the that <BR>&gt; start<BR>&gt; the Traveller Adventure (the second post) or even the way I've <BR>&gt; chosen to<BR>&gt; run the campaign itself (for instance, Eneri Giilaan, in my game, is <BR>&gt; a<BR>&gt; much, much bigger character than he is as listed in the Traveller<BR>&gt; Adventure).<BR><BR>Heh... I'm going to steal this like an 8th level thief in a dungeon :-)<BR><BR>Seriously, thanks.&nbsp; This is exactly the sort of backgroound info that my<BR>players can use but that I'm too lazy to write up myself.<BR><BR><BR>Perry<BR>"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."<BR><BR><BR><BR>________________________________________________________________<BR>GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!<BR>Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!<BR>Join Juno today!&nbsp; For your FREE software, visit:<BR>http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 18:59:19 -0000<BR>From: "Ben Aaronovitch" &lt;bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT big time<BR><BR>It also has one of my all time favourite lines...<BR><BR>Captain of the Guard (or whatever): If he got out alive it will be a miricle.<BR><BR>Evil Bishop: But I believe in miricles, its my job.<BR><BR>Ben<BR><BR>'Let's be honest here - you paid for the women.'<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Bill Murrey - Scrooged<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; Go rent _Ladyhawk_ for a good<BR>&gt; fantasy<BR>&gt; &gt; flick.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I have to agree with you there, Doug.&nbsp; I've watched a few "fantasy"<BR>&gt; films over the last 20 years, and Ladyhawk would be one of the best<BR>&gt; I've seen.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The characters are three dimensional, the story clever, and the<BR>&gt; directing and acting is spot on (and a young Michelle Pfeifer doesn't<BR>&gt; hurt, either :)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; If you haven't seen Ladyhawk, take Doug's advice. <BR>&gt; <BR>!<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 13:24:12 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: CLIMAX!&nbsp; Conclusion to the Traveller Adventure<BR><BR>knightsky@juno.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Heh... I'm going to steal this like an 8th level thief in a dungeon :-)<BR><BR>And...I'm going to watch you take it like the lich that's scrying your 8th<BR>level thief from the bottom level.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Seriously, thanks.&nbsp; This is exactly the sort of backgroound info that my<BR>&gt; players can use but that I'm too lazy to write up myself.<BR><BR>No problem.&nbsp; Have at it.&nbsp; That's why I posted it.&nbsp; Glad you're getting some<BR>use of the effort I put in.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3403<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-xb01.mx.aol.com (rly-xb01.mail.aol.com [172.20.105.102]) by air-xb02.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Sat, 16 Dec 2000 14:28:17 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-xb01.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Sat, 16 Dec 2000 14:27:45 1900<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id OAA54624;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Sat, 16 Dec 2000 14:26:09 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Sat, 16 Dec 2000 14:25:59 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id OAA54586<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Sat, 16 Dec 2000 14:25:58 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 14:25:58 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012161925.OAA54586@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3403<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3404</B></TD></TR>
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<TD>12/16/00 1:05:29 PM Pacific Standard Time</TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Saturday, December 16 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3404<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Who's Who In the Spinwards, A possible Addition to the Rogues Gallery<BR>An Excellent Web site! (was Re: TNE (was: TEDs) )<BR>Re: TNE (was: TEDs)<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Aw crap.....&nbsp; was:RE: Question<BR>Re: Aw crap.....&nbsp; was:RE: Question<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>(0) Part One: Revisiting the Traveller Adventure<BR>Red Zone Amber Zone<BR>(1) Part One: Revisiting the Traveller Adventure<BR>(2) Part One: Revisiting the Traveller Adventure<BR>(3) Part One: Revisiting the Traveller Adventure<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 14:45:22 -0500<BR>From: "Daniel Phelps" &lt;phelpsd@gate.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Who's Who In the Spinwards, A possible Addition to the Rogues Gallery<BR><BR>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.<BR><BR>- ------=_NextPart_000_017E_01C0676E.D1AE52E0<BR>Content-Type: text/plain;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable<BR><BR>The Multi Faced Lady<BR><BR>Provide Name as desired (I call her Ms. Janusa), Double Agent =<BR>Impie/Swordy/Zho?<BR><BR>Milieu: Post 5th FW Sector: Any<BR><BR>Human female apparently in her late 20=92s early 30=92s.<BR><BR>A crook, she became a spy in the 5th FW pretending to work for the =<BR>Swordies but really employed by the Imperium. The Swordies awarded her =<BR>high honors, the Imperium a pardon for all past crimes. Both "awards" =<BR>were granted in secret.=20<BR><BR>Described not as beautiful but striking, she grew up on Mora in an =<BR>industrial area and for a time worked in the starship yards. When work =<BR>became scarce before the war she joined the infantry arms of Mora=92s =<BR>System Defense Forces. She did not make a good soldier and, after a =<BR>stint or two in the stockade/brig, was pitched out. She then took up =<BR>crime, starting out in petty swindles and moving up to commercial =<BR>burglary.=20<BR><BR>Early in the war the Swordies occupied several worlds and found her =<BR>languishing in a local prison. Thinking they had a ready lady with a =<BR>grudge against the Imperium they put the question to her. Would she like =<BR>to work for them? "Indeed I would," she replied given that the pay was =<BR>good and the living accommodations an improvement over her present =<BR>circumstances. They took her home with them and trained her to be a spy. =<BR>Considering that the alternative was death or a Swordy prison colony she =<BR>was a very apt and ready pupil.=20<BR><BR>Inserted back behind the front she rapidly realized which way the wind =<BR>was likely to finally blow. She therefore quickly rolled over on her =<BR>erstwhile employers. When asked about her in a debriefing years later, =<BR>one of her Imperial handlers was said to have laughed and replied =<BR>"It=92s like the old story, don=92t ya know, a pretty little snake is =<BR>still a snake. They really shouldn=92t be surprised at being bit after =<BR>they picked her up. Then again neither should we."=20<BR><BR>The task she had been set to was the sabotage of the starship yards at =<BR>Mora. With a little creative disinformation the Sworders were convinced =<BR>and subsequent communications only enhanced her esteem in their eyes. =<BR>She returned to the Sword Worlds, was debriefed and prepared again for =<BR>another mission. She was then reinserted into Imperial territory. =<BR>"Unfortunately" the system and several adjacent ones were quickly over =<BR>run by the Zho. Reportedly she spent the rest of the war dodging them.=20<BR><BR>She might be encountered in a bar, a caf=E9, a resort, restaurant, =<BR>hotel, casino etc.. If the PCs control, own or serve as crew on a star =<BR>ship she may seek passage on their vessel. She appears to be quite =<BR>wealthy, very high class, with an accent to match. If encountered =<BR>travelling she does so with a substantial amount of luggage.<BR><BR>Who might be after her? The Swordies if they ever tumble. Perhaps a =<BR>former acquaintance whom she may have stiffed out of the loot from one =<BR>of the robberies she committed in the past. Maybe the IMJ with questions =<BR>about what she did, on a freelance basis when behind the Zho lines. =<BR>There were some suspicious robberies during the occupation that bear her =<BR>mark and the loot was never accounted for by the partisans or recovered. =<BR>Questions also remain in Imperial intelligence circles as to her last =<BR>mission, had the Swordies had actually sent her in to spy on the Zho?<BR><BR><BR>- ------=_NextPart_000_017E_01C0676E.D1AE52E0<BR>Content-Type: text/html;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable<BR><BR>&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;HEAD&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =<BR>http-equiv=3DContent-Type&gt;<BR>&lt;META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR&gt;<BR>&lt;/HEAD&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<BR>
<P>The Multi Faced Lady</P><BR>
<P>Provide Name as desired (I call her Ms. Janusa), Double Agent=20<BR>Impie/Swordy/Zho?</P><BR>
<P>Milieu: Post 5<SUP>th</SUP> FW Sector: Any</P><BR>
<P>Human female apparently in her late 20&amp;rsquo;s early 30&amp;rsquo;s.</P><BR>
<P>A crook, she became a spy in the 5<SUP>th</SUP> FW pretending to work =<BR>for the=20<BR>Swordies but really employed by the Imperium. The Swordies awarded her =<BR>high=20<BR>honors, the Imperium a pardon for all past crimes. Both =<BR>&amp;quot;awards&amp;quot; were=20<BR>granted in secret. </P><BR>
<P>Described not as beautiful but striking, she grew up on Mora in an =<BR>industrial=20<BR>area and for a time worked in the starship yards. When work became =<BR>scarce before=20<BR>the war she joined the infantry arms of Mora&amp;rsquo;s System Defense =<BR>Forces. She=20<BR>did not make a good soldier and, after a stint or two in the =<BR>stockade/brig, was=20<BR>pitched out. She then took up crime, starting out in petty swindles and =<BR>moving=20<BR>up to commercial burglary. </P><BR>
<P>Early in the war the Swordies occupied several worlds and found her=20<BR>languishing in a local prison. Thinking they had a ready lady with a =<BR>grudge=20<BR>against the Imperium they put the question to her. Would she like to =<BR>work for=20<BR>them? &amp;quot;Indeed I would,&amp;quot; she replied given that the pay was =<BR>good and=20<BR>the living accommodations an improvement over her present circumstances. =<BR>They=20<BR>took her home with them and trained her to be a spy. Considering that =<BR>the=20<BR>alternative was death or a Swordy prison colony she was a very apt and =<BR>ready=20<BR>pupil. </P><BR>
<P>Inserted back behind the front she rapidly realized which way the =<BR>wind was=20<BR>likely to finally blow. She therefore quickly rolled over on her =<BR>erstwhile=20<BR>employers. When asked about her in a debriefing years later, one of her =<BR>Imperial=20<BR>handlers was said to have laughed and replied &amp;quot;It&amp;rsquo;s like the =<BR>old=20<BR>story, don&amp;rsquo;t ya know, a pretty little snake is still a snake. They =<BR>really=20<BR>shouldn&amp;rsquo;t be surprised at being bit after they picked her up. Then =<BR>again=20<BR>neither should we.&amp;quot; </P><BR>
<P>The task she had been set to was the sabotage of the starship yards =<BR>at Mora.=20<BR>With a little creative disinformation the Sworders were convinced and =<BR>subsequent=20<BR>communications only enhanced her esteem in their eyes. She returned to =<BR>the Sword=20<BR>Worlds, was debriefed and prepared again for another mission. She was =<BR>then=20<BR>reinserted into Imperial territory. &amp;quot;Unfortunately&amp;quot; the system =<BR>and=20<BR>several adjacent ones were quickly over run by the Zho. Reportedly she =<BR>spent the=20<BR>rest of the war dodging them. </P><BR>
<P>She might be encountered in a bar, a caf&amp;eacute;, a resort, =<BR>restaurant,=20<BR>hotel, casino etc.. If the PCs control, own or serve as crew on a star =<BR>ship she=20<BR>may seek passage on their vessel. She appears to be quite wealthy, very =<BR>high=20<BR>class, with an accent to match. If encountered travelling she does so =<BR>with a=20<BR>substantial amount of luggage.</P><BR>
<P>Who might be after her? The Swordies if they ever tumble. Perhaps a =<BR>former=20<BR>acquaintance whom she may have stiffed out of the loot from one of the =<BR>robberies=20<BR>she committed in the past. Maybe the IMJ with questions about what she =<BR>did, on a=20<BR>freelance basis when behind the Zho lines. There were some suspicious =<BR>robberies=20<BR>during the occupation that bear her mark and the loot was never =<BR>accounted for by=20<BR>the partisans or recovered. Questions also remain in Imperial =<BR>intelligence=20<BR>circles as to her last mission, had the Swordies had actually sent her =<BR>in to spy=20<BR>on the Zho?</P>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR><BR>- ------=_NextPart_000_017E_01C0676E.D1AE52E0--<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 14:00:56 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: An Excellent Web site! (was Re: TNE (was: TEDs) )<BR><BR>On 12/16/00 at 01:52 PM,&nbsp; knightsky@juno.com said:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;You know, I was actually considering breaking down and finally<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;buying a copy of TNE... but it looks like my initial fears were<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;justified (something always struck me as "wrong" from what little I<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;heard of TNE, but I could never quite place my finger on it).&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR><BR>&gt;&gt; No, no!&nbsp; Don't let what John and I wrote stop you from buying TNE.<BR>&gt;&gt; Read the material, make up you mind whether the Star Vikings are<BR>&gt;&gt; heros, villians or something in between...my take is *really* all<BR>&gt;&gt; the above.&nbsp; :-)&nbsp; <BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;Still, to be fair... is there anywhere on the net that I can find a<BR>&gt;detailed desription of the setting of TNE, and how a TNE campaign<BR>&gt;would actually be played (something a little more detailed than<BR>&gt;"well, there was the Virus, and it destroyed the Imperium...")? <BR><BR>You bet!&nbsp; For an *exellent* example of what a game can be like in<BR>the post-collapse TU go to...<BR><BR>http://members.home.net/nightrim/Home.html<BR><BR>Derek Stanley is running a PBIRC/ICQ set in 1200.&nbsp; His Confederation<BR>of Nightrim is a small pocket empire located in the Nightrim<BR>subsector of Reaver's Deep.&nbsp; The RCES is far away and unknown, but<BR>free traders still ply the space lanes, something like the Guild is<BR>in the wings, other pocket empires may be out there just beyond<BR>explored space, and Virus is still an ever lurking presense.<BR><BR>Be perpared to spend a *lot* of time with Derek's site.&nbsp; He has<BR>social, historical, and political material posted that serves as a<BR>good background for getting a feel for his TU, articles on Virus,<BR>write up of equipment, weapons, ships, detailed star maps of the<BR>local area (both pre-collapse and what is known post-collapse), and<BR>be *sure* to go to the Personal Logs and read the mission<BR>transcripts.<BR><BR>In Personal Log, "Chapter One" is completely online in about 40<BR>chapter sized transcripts, maps, logs and assorted writeups.&nbsp; Really<BR>he should call it Book One, it's that big.&nbsp; "Chapter Two" is in<BR>progress, only 2 sessions and a half dozen maps and related articles<BR>are up so far, but Derek is a little behind putting up the<BR>transcripts.&nbsp; &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR><BR>Eris<BR><BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 14:03:21 -0600<BR>From: "Brandon Cope" &lt;copeab@mail.elc.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: TNE (was: TEDs)<BR><BR>From: knightsky@juno.com<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;You know, I was actually considering breaking down and finally<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;buying a copy of TNE... but it looks like my initial fears were<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;justified (something always struck me as "wrong" from what little I<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;heard of TNE, but I could never quite place my finger on it).&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; No, no!&nbsp; Don't let what John and I wrote stop you from buying TNE.<BR>&gt;&gt; Read the material, make up you mind whether the Star Vikings are<BR>&gt;&gt; heros, villians or something in between...my take is *really* all<BR>&gt;&gt; the above.&nbsp; :-)&nbsp; <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I wasn't overly thrilled by TNE (or more specifically, my impressions of<BR>&gt;TNE, since I've never actually purchesed it) when it first came out, more<BR>&gt;than anything by what I perceived to be it's "style over substance"<BR>&gt;approach.&nbsp; One of the things that I love about CT is that is not flashy,<BR>&gt;but has a lot of meat to it.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I had a chance to pick up a copy of TNE on eBay for $3+shipping a few<BR>&gt;weeks back, but it sounds like it was just as well I didn't get it.<BR><BR>Despite not owning TNE*, I have still bought serveral of the supplements for it (World Tamer's Handboook**, RCES Equipment Guide, FF&amp;S and Path of Tears). In general, the equipment guide was the only one I haven't found useful, probably because its so TNE dependant. Since Path of Tear is somewhat similar to my original CT campaign (which I may restart using FUDGE), I thought it might be a useful resource for worlds and adventure hooks.<BR><BR>* I do own Twilight 2000 v2.0, so I understand most of the "game speak" in the supplements. <BR><BR>** Since I preferred the Scout service, I had to get this one. Also, a fair amount of material is useful for T2K, epecially if you advance the timeline by about 20 years and have things worse than they 'historically' were.<BR><BR><BR>A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>Brandon Cope<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/copeab<BR>*** new: generic adventure seeds, Traveller page, baseball for GURPS ***<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 14:10:06 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>On 12/16/00 at 01:31 PM,&nbsp; "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;On Sat, 16 Dec 2000 eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;The laws are not that strict after all&nbsp; ;-)<BR>&gt;&gt; Yes, but why do they exist at all?&nbsp; Is there a logical motivation to<BR>&gt;&gt; having a governmental body regulate names?<BR><BR>&gt;Perhaps it is that we feel that because government gives us things,<BR>&gt;it can also demand things from us. <BR><BR>I can *understand* that you can have attitude, but I just don't<BR>understand why something like *this* is regulated.<BR><BR>&gt;And in practice the situation is not unlike European in the US. I<BR>&gt;think you still have to tell different entities where you live, so<BR>&gt;you can get mail, insurance and such things.<BR><BR>Sure, but what has that got to do with regulating *what* a name can<BR>be?&nbsp; That's different from having a record of a name, address, etc.<BR>I think we're going to have to just not agree on this subject.<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;And, as an aside, I think some Finnish names could not be used in<BR>&gt;th US. Just think of those little two dots over 'a's and 'o's, and<BR>&gt;which computers would display them correctly.<BR><BR>&gt;(Mtt, a surname is an example. I don't know how you see it, but<BR>&gt;it should be Maatta with two dots over all 'a's.)<BR><BR>Yes, on *this* mail client, I see Mtt...dots and all...but I<BR>wouldn't on many others. <BR><BR>&gt;&gt; I've taught people with some quite stange, but legal, first names:<BR>&gt;&gt; Nosmoking, Female, Boy, and Kissme; not to mention a Major, a Doctor<BR><BR>&gt;Have you ever met an Englishman whose name is Mr. Ismoketoomuch?-)<BR><BR>&gt;(And I checked the law, there is a loophole : one can get any name<BR>&gt;if it can be justified. So, with debating skills one can get almost<BR>&gt;any name. And the offensivity clause is for preventing people with<BR>&gt;names like "Shit" or something like that. For a reason.)<BR><BR>Hee, hee!&nbsp; Well, it would cut down on the Dweasles, Moonbeams, and<BR>Richard Heads (Dick Head), I guess.&nbsp; &lt;g&gt; I just don't see a logical<BR>reason for the government to get involved. <BR><BR>IAC, we should get back to Traveller. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Eris<BR><BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:20:56 -0800<BR>From: Tod Glenn &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Aw crap.....&nbsp; was:RE: Question<BR><BR>on 12/15/00 6:18 PM, Jesse Degraff at jedegraf@cisco.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Well, consider that unless they made them while the range was "down",<BR>&gt;&gt; odds are they'd be unintelligible due to background noise.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; -- <BR>&gt;&gt; Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>&gt;&gt; shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>&gt;&gt; leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Yeah, audio can get a bit washed out occaisionally on a machinegun range :)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Jesse<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Surely, you can just dub in some suitable background music. "Can't get no<BR>satisfaction"?<BR><BR>Tod<BR>- --<BR>When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend"<BR>- -- <BR>Tod L Glenn<BR>webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.solsec.org<BR>http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>http://travellerguns.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:28:01 -0800<BR>From: Tod Glenn &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Aw crap.....&nbsp; was:RE: Question<BR><BR>on 12/16/00 7:55 AM, Douglas E. Berry at gridlore@pop.mindspring.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; At 10:34 PM 12/15/2000 PST, you wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; And I doubt the audio would do justice to the Barretts, much less the<BR>&gt;&gt; Lahti and Solothurn. :-)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; *thud* ow! *thud* ow! *thud* ow! *thud* ow! *thud* ow! *thud* ow! *thud* ow!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; That's the sound of me kicking myself for missing the shoot this year.<BR><BR>But doubtless you've seen the photos. I even brought my Accuracy<BR>International sniper, thinking of you.&nbsp;&nbsp; Hope you make the next one.<BR><BR>Tod<BR>- --<BR>When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend"<BR>- -- <BR>Tod L Glenn<BR>webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.solsec.org<BR>http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>http://travellerguns.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 14:34:59 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>On 12/17/00 at 01:20 AM,&nbsp; "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Yes, but why do they exist at all?&nbsp; Is there a logical motivation to<BR>&gt;&gt; having a governmental body regulate names?<BR><BR>&gt;Take a look at Mikko Parviainen's post of 10 Dec and you'll see one<BR>&gt;of the&nbsp; main reasons (preserving local culture against a perceived<BR>&gt;threat from&nbsp; being overwhelmed).<BR><BR>That makes, marginal, sense, but I don't see it as a government<BR>function.&nbsp; As I wrote Mikko, we'll just have to take a pass on this<BR>one, I'm afraid.<BR><BR>&gt; Many apparently obvious things in one culture seem quite strange<BR>&gt; from an other.<BR><BR>A point we can apply to Traveller...to get back on topic. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;Why does the US persist in clinging to it hugely inefficent<BR>&gt;insurance model of health care?&nbsp; Why does the US allow so many<BR>&gt;blatantly "silly" law suits?&nbsp; Why does the US have such a problem<BR>&gt;with gun control?&nbsp; Why does the US so fear its own government?&nbsp; All<BR>&gt;these things seem quite baffling to me, yet I assume they all make<BR>&gt;perfect sense if you're on the inside.<BR><BR>&lt;g&gt;&nbsp; Okay, in brief, and IMO...<BR><BR>Health care:&nbsp; Because, with all its problems, it is also hugely<BR>effective, and we haven't been able to agree on a more efficent<BR>method that will continue to be so effective.&nbsp; Government<BR>involvement has been suggested, as a possible answer, but a lot of<BR>us have trouble seeing how such an inefficent set of organizations<BR>would really improve things.&nbsp; Besides, see the answer to the<BR>question about fearing governments.<BR><BR>Law suits:&nbsp; Silly, but not totally untrue answer, we have to keep<BR>our many, many lawyers employed somehow.&nbsp; OTOH, most of us agree<BR>that there are too many silly lawsuites.&nbsp; The problem, of course, is<BR>that a lawsuit is only silly if *your* ox hasn't been gored.<BR><BR>Gun control:&nbsp; We have a problem with it, because we have split<BR>opinions, seriously.&nbsp; If everyone, or no one, here favored<BR>government regulations of guns there wouldn't be problem.&nbsp; As to why<BR>there is a split, see next answer.<BR><BR>Fear Government:&nbsp; We don't fear government...any more than we fear<BR>fire, tornados, grizzly bears, great white sharks, rattlesnakes, or<BR>gangs of men armed with guns.&nbsp; Government has its place and its<BR>functions, but like fire you have to treat with care or it will get<BR>out of hand and consume everything in its path.&nbsp; If you let it get<BR>control of something you'll have a *hell* of a time making it let<BR>go, so many of us think it's best to keep a wary eye on it and keep<BR>its power very limited.<BR><BR>Make sense to me:&nbsp; Some of it does, some of it doesn't, and that<BR>varies from day to day.&nbsp; Don't make the mistake that the US is<BR>monolithic, we have almost as many opinions as we have citizens.<BR>It's a very messy way of doing things, I guess, but as Ben Franklin<BR>said, we are all part of the "American experiement."&nbsp; We don't think<BR>it has failed yet...but we could be wrong. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 14:45:40 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>On 12/16/00 at 04:28 PM,&nbsp; "Ben Aaronovitch" &lt;bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;You know, these posts have been a revelation.<BR><BR>&gt;I didn't know that anyone has naming laws at all.<BR><BR>&gt;PS: is it true that the US government can ban US citizens from<BR>&gt;visiting certain foriegn countries?<BR><BR>Sure, the Federal Government can do that.&nbsp; Doesn't stop US citizens<BR>from going to those countries and I don't recall anyone being jailed<BR>for it.&nbsp; There are times when the population of the US doesn't pay<BR>much attention to laws.&nbsp; OTOH...did you know that the US Income Tax<BR>is *mostly* based on voluntary compliance?&nbsp; Sure the gov will take<BR>you away if you get *caught* avoiding/cheating, but reporting and<BR>filing *is* voluntary.&nbsp; &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 14:51:43 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>On 12/16/00 at 04:49 PM,&nbsp; "Ben Aaronovitch" &lt;bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;So the Government can't actually ban you from going to a country?<BR>&gt;Legally I mean.<BR><BR>Ben, *I* can ban you from going to a country.&nbsp; &lt;g&gt; I might not be<BR>able to enforce my ban, or I might/might not be able to and choose<BR>not to enforce it.&nbsp; I might be unable to enforce such a ban, but<BR>able to apply consequences after the fact, and I may/may not choose<BR>to apply those consequences.<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 14:55:44 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: (0) Part One: Revisiting the Traveller Adventure<BR><BR>I started my version of the Traveller Adventure in media res--in the<BR>thick of things.&nbsp; The players really had no idea what their characters<BR>were getting into that first night we sat down at the table in 1996.<BR><BR>We played for about two and a half years before we put the game up,<BR>moved on to another game, and we left the March Harrier and her crew in<BR>a climactic cliffhanger--the Harrier had been destroyed and the crew<BR>were floating out in space with suit and PLSS and little else.<BR><BR>I needed to re-introduce my players to the complex universe we had<BR>created over that two years, and I've brought on a new player who has<BR>never before played Traveller.<BR><BR>(I'm also going to be playtesting KB3 in this half of the campaign, but<BR>that's a whole other topic).<BR><BR>I set about to write up a few documents that would bring the universe<BR>back to my players, and you've already seen the first two:&nbsp; One took a<BR>look at the last 3000-4000 years of history of the human race with a<BR>focus on the three Imperiums (I posted this as a single post);&nbsp; The<BR>other served as a prologue to the story--sitations and events necessary<BR>to understand the grand scope of my epic campaign (I posted this in five<BR>parts--for easy reading--with another post serving as an<BR>introduction--like this introduction).<BR><BR>Now, I am posting the last of the three documents.&nbsp; This is the grand<BR>story itself--how it has played out so far.&nbsp; I begin with the<BR>backstory--the situations and events that occurred immediately before<BR>the game started--then I move into a summary of the game itself, when<BR>the characters stepped up as owners and crewers on the MARCH HARRIER.<BR><BR>I have not finished writing the entire document, but I have finished the<BR>first half--the half relating the backstory.&nbsp; This is everything<BR>important to this epic campaign BEFORE the characters became involved.<BR><BR>Shawn Grey, Eneri Giilaan, and the Vargr crewers of the MARCH HARRIER<BR>are all NPCs.<BR><BR>When next I post the rest of this document (in a series, for easy<BR>reading), you'll be able to see how the players and characters have<BR>influenced the growth of the story.<BR><BR>This is truly one of the most complex, enjoyable campaigns I have ever<BR>run--in any RPG universe.&nbsp; When I told them that we were going to go<BR>back and finish the Traveller Adventure, all of them were ecstatic.<BR><BR>We left our heroes in a cliffhanger, and we've missed playing in this<BR>complex, alluring universe that brings out my obsessive side.<BR><BR>I hope you enjoy the read...and you're able to capture some ideas from<BR>it.&nbsp; For maximum enjoyment of what you are about to read, you should<BR>have read the other two documents I posted--especially the series of<BR>posts that is document two.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 15:55:56 -0500<BR>From: "Daniel Phelps" &lt;phelpsd@gate.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Red Zone Amber Zone<BR><BR>Was asked:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;PS: is it true that the US government can ban US citizens from<BR>&gt;&gt;visiting certain foriegn countries?<BR><BR><BR>Yes in addition to Cuba, I believe that&nbsp; Libya and possibly North Korean are<BR>on the RED ZONE list.&nbsp;&nbsp; Regarding Cuba there are dispensations regarding<BR>travel to and from but I am not sure what they are.&nbsp; A friend in the office<BR>visited, pissed off some of the diehard Cubanos in the office greatly.<BR><BR>By the way they are taking to calling our "accidental President" elect<BR>Elian's revenge down in Miami's little Havana.<BR><BR>Dan<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 14:58:15 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: (1) Part One: Revisiting the Traveller Adventure<BR><BR>TRAVELLER<BR><BR>PART ONE<BR><BR>(Revisiting the TRAVELLER ADVENTURE)<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>ARAMIS has been an important name associated with the MARCH HARRIER.<BR>The world of Aramis is the vessels home port.&nbsp; The ship was constructed<BR>there, and it made its first flight from that world some 20 years ago.<BR><BR>The ship has had a colored history.&nbsp; Of the many conflicts it has become<BR>involved in, several of the events have occurred on Aramis or in the<BR>Aramis system.<BR><BR>Three times the ship has changed ownership.&nbsp; Each time, the transaction<BR>has occurred on the planet Aramis.<BR><BR>As a subsidy vessel in the Emperors March Program, the HARRIER has been<BR>assigned a subsidy routethe 8 system star cluster referred to as the<BR>Aramis Trace.<BR><BR>And now, a journal of the ships travels has been recorded.&nbsp; It is a<BR>document marked ultra-secret by the Imperial Navy, referred toonly in<BR>clandestine circles--with the code words Traveller Adventure.<BR><BR>It should come as no surprise that the code word Traveller is a<BR>designate for a 400 ton March class Fat Trader that has been journeying<BR>across the Aramis subsector of latea ship called<BR><BR>the March Harrier.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 14:59:13 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: (2) Part One: Revisiting the Traveller Adventure<BR><BR>20 yrs. ago:&nbsp; The launch of the MARCH HARRIER in the Aramis Trace....<BR><BR>The collection of star systems in the rimward region of the Aramis<BR>subsector is known as the Aramis Trace.&nbsp; This is a cluster of 8 solar<BR>systems, containing the subsector capitalthe planet Aramis--and 7 other<BR>worlds that stretch into two other neighboring subsectors.<BR><BR>All of the worlds in the Aramis Trace are close, by intergalactic<BR>standardsall can be reached in a single jump by a starship with a J-1<BR>jump drive.&nbsp; This bit of astrogational data made the cluster an ideal<BR>target for the Emperors March Program.<BR><BR>20 years ago, a Fat Trader rolled off the dock at the Naasirka shipyards<BR>on Aramis.&nbsp; The ship was christened the MARCH HARRIER.<BR><BR>The ships first crew were Vargrthe ships first owner, a Vargr<BR>on-board owner/operator.<BR><BR>For two standard years this crew navigated the 8 worlds in the Trace.<BR>They made a steady profit, although no one was getting rich, and<BR>Oberlindes was pleased with the Vargrs execution of their subsidy<BR>obligations.<BR><BR>Emperor Strephons program was working.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 15:02:32 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: (3) Part One: Revisiting the Traveller Adventure<BR><BR>18 yrs. ago:&nbsp; Shawn Grey enters the picture....<BR><BR>In 1087, one of the HARRIERs Vargr crewmembers grew bored of the life<BR>as a Free Trader.&nbsp; He decided to seek his future elsewhereas Vargr are<BR>prone to do.<BR><BR>The Vargr captain of the MARCH HARRIER set about looking for a<BR>replacement.&nbsp; The ship was in port on its homeworld of Aramis,<BR>undergoing its annual maintenance procedure, giving the ships captain<BR>time to recruit and interview potential crewers.&nbsp; He settled on a human<BR>as the best candidate...<BR><BR>...but the Vargr captain would be looking at his new shipmate through<BR>eyes of surprise, wondering why his life was ebbing away from him,<BR>before the Vargr realized just how bad a choice he had made, mixing a<BR>single humani with an entire crew of Vargr.<BR><BR>The new crewmembers name was Shawn Grey.<BR><BR>20 years old, Shawn was an expatriate of the troubled world of Porozloa<BR>planet caught up in a dangerous political climate.&nbsp; It is a back water<BR>world in the Rhylanor subsector that has not yet (even today) achieved<BR>world unity, and the planet is characterized by heated conflicts between<BR>its several countries.<BR><BR>From time to time, Imperial forces are brought in when the fighting<BR>interferes with interstellar trade or Porozlos stellar neighbors.<BR>Since the Imperium maintains a hands-off policy when it comes to<BR>politics on member worlds, Imperial intervention, on most worlds in the<BR>empire, does not happen often.&nbsp; For the same reason, the conflict on a<BR>member planet is unusually heated when the Imperium does interfere.<BR><BR>Shawn has seen Imperial forces come to Porozlo several times during his<BR>life.<BR><BR>Young men who opt to enlist in a Marine Corps have many choices of<BR>service.&nbsp; There may be a Domain Marine Corps, protection force for the<BR>surrounding four sectors under the leadership of the Domains Duke.&nbsp; The<BR>sector itself may maintain a standing marine force.&nbsp; Sometimes, worlds<BR>in a subsector band together under treaty for the purpose of common<BR>defense, creating a marine force, or a ground army, or a navy.<BR><BR>Very often, Imperial member worlds will maintain a force as a last line<BR>of defense, as support for customs, and as a controlled arm of power.<BR>It is usually necessary for a world to be unified in order to have the<BR>resources to support a space faring armed forces, but some countries on<BR>balkanized worlds prize national defense so highly that they bear the<BR>burden of inexorable expense in the face of all other governmental<BR>obligations.<BR><BR>Porzolo is such a place.<BR><BR>Shawn Grey was born in a country characterized by an arms race and<BR>rampant fascism.&nbsp; His state is run by an aggressive dictator who<BR>encourages both fanatic nationalism and prejudice against non-humans.<BR>Since birth, national pride was drilled into from his parents, the<BR>culture he grew up in, and the national propaganda that saturates his<BR>home.<BR><BR>Conditions on Porozlo cultivate a xenophobic, bigoted, racist way of<BR>life.&nbsp; At age 5, Shawn was enrolled in a military academy to prepare him<BR>for the time when he would defend his country.&nbsp; At age 13, Shawn became<BR>a member of the youth program.&nbsp; At age 18, he enlisted in the only force<BR>in which he had ever wanted to serve--the National Marines.<BR><BR>But, like so many young men on worlds across the Imperiumthose grown to<BR>a belief who finally face the reality of the situationShawn had an eye<BR>opening experience.&nbsp; Service to his country did not hold all the glory<BR>he had anticipated his whole life.&nbsp; Used as a strong arm to enforce the<BR>personal whims of his countrys dictator, Shawn saw the way foreigners<BR>were treated in his country, saw how his country was regarded with fear<BR>from other countries on Porozlo and the planets interstellar neighbors,<BR>saw how his countrys leader twisted the truth.<BR><BR>And, he saw death.<BR><BR>During his two years of service, Grey had been shot.&nbsp; As he lay there on<BR>a cloth stretcher in a mud hole on some forsaken piece of disputed<BR>territory, Shawn experienced an epiphany.&nbsp; There was a scare that he<BR>would not live, but he beat death.&nbsp; And, his soul searched for answers.<BR><BR>Grey realized that Porozlo was truly indeed backwater.&nbsp; He realized that<BR>most space faring cultures only succeed after solving their domestic<BR>problemsthat if more worlds experienced conditions like on Porozlo,<BR>there would be no Imperium, no intergalactic society at all.<BR><BR>Shawns injury healed, but his mind didnt.&nbsp; The limp went away after a<BR>few years, but his life was shattered.&nbsp; He was bitter, and he became<BR>wayward, leaving the planet on which he was born.<BR><BR>He wandered coreward and found himself on Aramis, candidate for the<BR>position of communications officer on merchant Free Tradera ship with<BR>an all Vargr crew called the MARCH HARRIER.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3404<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; 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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3405</B></TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Saturday, December 16 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3405<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>(4) Part One: Revisiting the Traveller Adventure<BR>(5) Part One: Revisiting the Traveller Adventure<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>RE: Question<BR>RE: Aw crap.....&nbsp; was:RE: Question<BR>RE: Aw crap.....&nbsp; was:RE: Question<BR>Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR>Re: An Excellent Web site! (was Re: TNE (was: TEDs) )<BR>Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR>Re: ADMIN: Update (was Re: TML Host IENT Restructures)<BR>Prescient Dreams&nbsp; Re: AHHH! Sailor Moon!<BR>Re: Relativity &amp; FTL<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: CLIMAX!&nbsp; Conclusion to the Traveller Adventure<BR>Re: The New Traveller Task System<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 15:03:44 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: (4) Part One: Revisiting the Traveller Adventure<BR><BR>8 yrs. ago:&nbsp; Grey assumes ownership of the MARCH HARRIER....<BR><BR>Shawn Grey got up one morning and looked up at himself in the mirror<BR>with the realization that he was 32 years old, in a job he hated,<BR>working with a race of beings he despised, and had nothing to show for<BR>his sacrifice.&nbsp; He had spent all of his 20sa total of 12 long yearsin<BR>the employ of a Vargr captain who made decisions based on ignorance,<BR>working with dog-like aliens who stink, eat raw meat, and have filthy<BR>work habits.<BR><BR>Why he had stayed so long, he did not know.&nbsp; The heated arguments he had<BR>with the HARRIERs captain served to remind himself that he was alive,<BR>but other than that, his only existence was trudging along year after<BR>year.&nbsp; He felt trapped.&nbsp; He was in a rut.&nbsp; He had no energy to move on,<BR>and he couldnt see a way to escape.<BR><BR>The year was 1097, on the day of Shawns birthday.&nbsp; Shawn stumbled down<BR>to the cargo bay and happened upon a conversation the captain was having<BR>with one of his fellow crewmembers.&nbsp; The captain was explaining that he<BR>was going to have to get rid of GreyShawn had outlived his usefulness.<BR><BR>It is not easy to imagine a mind that has deteriorated over a period of<BR>a decade.&nbsp; Shawn had lost touch with his family on Porozlo, having never<BR>returned to his birthplanet.&nbsp; He had never received a promotion and<BR>never been given a raise in wage.&nbsp; In the 12 years he had been a member<BR>of the MARCH HARRIER crew, the ship had never turned a substantial<BR>profit to speak of, and therefore Shawn had never received a large sum<BR>for his share in the operation.&nbsp; The HARRIER plodded along the same 8<BR>planets of the Trace, day in and day out, making enough money to pay<BR>expenses, and when any profits were made, the Vargr captain would just<BR>plow them back into the ship.<BR><BR>Grey had no savings.&nbsp; He lived from payday to payday, wasting his life.<BR>Now, he was 32 years old, and they were going to fire him.<BR><BR>Something happened that day to Shawn, when he overheard the captains<BR>conversation.&nbsp; His mind stepped past a point-of-no-return.&nbsp; Paranoia had<BR>crept in years ago.&nbsp; In his mind, what he heard were that the Vargr were<BR>going to kill him.<BR><BR>The crewman left, leaving the captain in the HARRIERs hold, using some<BR>crates from the last shipment they had picked up on Loeul dDieu as a<BR>desk.&nbsp; His attention was on administrative computer work.<BR><BR>Shawn picked up a wrench.&nbsp; The captain turned to acknowledge him, and<BR>Shawn bashed his head.&nbsp; Shawn kept bashing him until the tip of that wet<BR>little pink tongue poked out that nauseating snout.&nbsp; Grey kept hitting<BR>him until blood matted the Vargrs food stained fur.&nbsp; Half mad, Shawn<BR>stopped only after the red in his vision subsided, giving way to the<BR>ache in his arm, and he saw that he had bashed the captains ear clear<BR>down the side of his neck to rest on the shoulder of his gaudy costume.<BR><BR>Then Shawn stood there, sweat pouring off his brow, his heart beating in<BR>his ear, looking at what he had done.&nbsp; He clenched his teeth until they<BR>felt like they would crack and drilled hate with his eyes through the<BR>pitiful mangled form of a being who never saw his death coming.<BR><BR>Shawn noticed the blood on the hand computer.&nbsp; The screen on the unit<BR>glowed green in the recessed light.&nbsp; It was not administrative paperwork<BR>the captain was working on.&nbsp; It was the termination record for Shawn<BR>Grey.<BR><BR>And Shawn snapped back into reality.&nbsp; They werent going to kill him, he<BR>realized.&nbsp; The captain was only going to fire him.&nbsp; The Vargr had put<BR>together a severance package for him.&nbsp; He had even thanked Shawn for his<BR>12 years of service.&nbsp; The ship had just exited jump in their home<BR>system, and the captain had planned to give the rest of the crew a<BR>vacation as he searched for a new comm officer.<BR><BR>Grey panicked.&nbsp; What was he going to do?<BR><BR>The ship was carrying a load, and they were en route to Aramis although<BR>they were still several hours from orbit.<BR><BR>He punched the ship wide comm, Ship emergency!&nbsp; All hands to the hold!<BR>The captains been hurt on the cargo deck!<BR><BR>The first two Vargr crossed into the hold wondering what that damn human<BR>was screaming about.&nbsp; Then they saw the captain.&nbsp; Grey was nowhere in<BR>site.&nbsp; One of the Vargr, screaming at the top of his lungs, repeated the<BR>order on the ships comm in his native tongue.<BR><BR>The other two Vargr arrived, panting from their run down the corridor.<BR>The first two were hovering over their slain captain.&nbsp; One of them asked<BR>where the human was.<BR><BR>Thats when Shawn did it.&nbsp; He hit the control that sealed the hold from<BR>the rest of the ship, then he threw the switch that opened the outer<BR>cargo doors.<BR><BR>The freight itself was fastened to the deck, but everything not nailed<BR>down blew out into space.<BR><BR>Shawn looked impassively out the port at the freezing Vargr bodies.<BR>Blood vessels were beginning to burst due to the radical drop of<BR>pressure.&nbsp; Gasses from within their bodies pressed outward--no pressure<BR>in space to counter the gas effect on soft skinned creatures.<BR><BR>Grey caught his reflection in the glass of the port and smiled to<BR>himself.&nbsp; This was the first day of the rest of his life.&nbsp; He<BR>repressurized the hold and went to work.&nbsp; After several hours, he had<BR>released all of the ships cargo out into the void to float among the<BR>Vargr bodies and other debris.<BR><BR>He went forward to the bridge then and sat in the pilots seat for the<BR>first time.&nbsp; The original pilot of the MARCH HARRIER had been with the<BR>ship since day onea personal friend of the captain.&nbsp; He was very<BR>particular about anyone else sitting at his station.<BR><BR>Well look at you now, you bastard, Shawn Grey said out loud.&nbsp; A bigger<BR>smile cracked across his face as he glanced out the bow port where the<BR>ex-pilot was tumbling in view.<BR><BR>Shawn hit the thruster control.&nbsp; The ship lurched forward, and the Vargr<BR>pilot slapped against the view port.&nbsp; Shawn heard a scrape on the hull<BR>when the Vargr bounced away from the craft.<BR><BR>He did not know much about starship engineering, astro-navigation,<BR>J-drives, or even piloting a vessel into a jump, but Grey could control<BR>a ship in system.&nbsp; It was something he had done a lot during his two<BR>years in the National Marines.<BR><BR>Two hours later, the MARCH HARRIER found another position, far away from<BR>the debris and dead Vargr.&nbsp; Shawn sent out a may-day, and a system<BR>defense boat was dispatched from the Imperial Naval base on Aramis.<BR><BR>The naval officers came aboard, and Shawn told them they had been hit by<BR>pirates.&nbsp; One had come aboard as a passenger at their last port and took<BR>them by surprise.&nbsp; The ship was forced to a rendezvous with the pirate<BR>vessel then robbed of the contents in the hold.&nbsp; The crew had been<BR>spaced.<BR><BR>Why didnt they take you as well?&nbsp; The Navy lieutenant asked.<BR><BR>They didnt take me, Shawn said, I think...because Im human.&nbsp; They<BR>said that if I gave then no trouble, then they would let me live.<BR><BR>The Navy man sounded disgusted.&nbsp; Grey could tell by his expression that<BR>this wasnt the first time the officer had run across xenophobic<BR>prejudice.&nbsp; So you just held your tongue, he said, and let them cart<BR>off your shipmates.<BR><BR>Grey tossed his eyes to the ground.&nbsp; He could give no reply.<BR><BR>It was a beautiful act.<BR><BR>~~~~~&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ~~~~~&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ~~~~~<BR><BR>Planet side on Aramis, Shawn implemented the rest of his plan.&nbsp; He<BR>contacted Oberlindes who, in turn, sent a subsidy agent to meet him.<BR>Shawn produced a computer log that the captain had made awarding<BR>ownership shares in the ship.&nbsp; Although the log was incomplete due to a<BR>magnetic blast it had been exposed to during the pirate attack, Shawn<BR>assured the agent that his name was on the log.<BR><BR>Im a little short of the 10 million credits required as a down payment<BR>on a new ship, Shawn told him, and Id like to resume title of the<BR>HARRIER as is my right as the last surviving owner stated on this log.<BR><BR>The Oberlindes agent told him that the log would have to be verified<BR>with the company subsidy records on Paya.&nbsp; Shawn explained that the log<BR>had been established only recently, and it hadnt been posted or<BR>authorized yet.<BR><BR>But I assure you, Shawn said, that log is absolutely legal, and Im<BR>the rightful owner of the MARCH HARRIER now.<BR><BR>Unfortunate, the agent replied, tapping the damaged hand computer.<BR>The log may be able to be reconstructed electronically.&nbsp; Well have to<BR>give that a try.<BR><BR>At this point, Shawn was starting to get scared.&nbsp; The reconstruction of<BR>the log would prove him to be a liar, and the Navys investigation into<BR>the affair threatened to uncover Greys hasty actions back on the ship.<BR><BR>Shawn was desperate, and he went for broke, gambling with his life.<BR><BR>There were 93 tons of cargo floating outsystem, right where Shawn had<BR>left itright where Shawn had intended to recover it before selling it<BR>to acquire funds to crew and outfit his new captaincy.&nbsp; He did not know<BR>what the crates contained.&nbsp; They had picked up the load blind because<BR>the deal was good, but he knew that the shipment had an insurance value<BR>attached to it of an amount close to half a million credits.&nbsp; Just<BR>salvaging whatever was in those cargo containers and selling it<BR>wholesale should be enough to put a Free Trader in business.<BR><BR>It was his recently gained nest egghis insurance policy that his<BR>captaincy of the MARCH HARRIER would be vastly more profitable than that<BR>of the inept Vargr captain.<BR><BR>But, the time to play his Ace was thenimmediately then.&nbsp; He was running<BR>out of options.&nbsp; So, Shawn looked at the Oberlindes agent and made him a<BR>proposition.<BR><BR>The agent need only validate Shawns claim based on the evidence at hand<BR>and help him discourage the Navy from further investigation.&nbsp; In return,<BR>Shawn would give him the coordinates of the missing cargo.&nbsp; The agent<BR>need only to retrieve it and disappear to earn close to 500,000 credits.<BR><BR>The agent stared at Shawn for a full two minutes.&nbsp; He never blinked,<BR>never uttered a word.&nbsp; Shawn could see that the mans brain was<BR>workinghow would he get a ship, how would he keep those crewmembers<BR>quiet, was the half-million worth being an accomplice to a multiple<BR>murderer, would the Navy truly halt their investigation on the basis of<BR>his findings....<BR><BR>It seemed like an eternity.<BR><BR>Then, a greasy smile slid across the agents face.&nbsp; Youve got a deal.<BR>What are the coordinates?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 15:05:22 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: (5) Part One: Revisiting the Traveller Adventure<BR><BR>8 yrs. ago:&nbsp; A man from Naval Intelligence, Eneri Giilaan....<BR><BR>The Oberlindes agent transferred the subsidy ownership to Grey, turned<BR>in a supporting report to the Imperial Navy, and quietly resigned from<BR>service to Oberlindes Lines.&nbsp; Shawn never heard from the man again, but<BR>the MARCH HARRIER was finally his.<BR><BR>The new captain of the ship set about gearing up for the ships next<BR>flight.&nbsp; Shawn needed a crew.&nbsp; Then, a man from Naval Intelligence came<BR>calling.&nbsp; He was newShawn had not dealt with him before.&nbsp; AndNaval<BR>Intelligence!&nbsp; Grey knew that piracy was a priority with the Imperial<BR>Navy, but until this point, he had been hounded by men from the Naval<BR>Investigations department, not Naval Intelligence.<BR><BR>This man wanted to know about the piratethe one Grey had said they had<BR>taken on as a passenger at Loeul dDieuthe one that Shawn had said<BR>acted as the inside man.&nbsp; The Navy man said it had been checked.&nbsp; There<BR>were no records of any passengers taken on at Loeul dDieu.<BR><BR>To this, Grey shrugged casually.&nbsp; He told the Intelligence man that<BR>Loeul dDieu is a company world, owned by the Sharurshid<BR>megacorporation.&nbsp; There is no law on the planet, he said, and you<BR>should know that Sharurshid company customs on the planet are next to<BR>non-existent.<BR><BR>And this man, who identified himself as Eneri Giilaan, seemed to accept<BR>what Shawn had said, but Grey was now nervous.&nbsp; He didnt believe the<BR>report from the Oberlindes agent had had as big an impact on the Naval<BR>investigations as he had hoped.&nbsp; Their suspicion was strong, but they<BR>lacked hard evidence.&nbsp; Now, they were forced into a holding pattern,<BR>waiting for a break in the case.<BR><BR>If they kept sending men like this Eneri Giilaan to him, armed with<BR>probing questions, they would have their break, and there would be<BR>nothing Shawn could do to avoid a sentence to an Imperial prison<BR>planet...or worse.<BR><BR>As Shawn left the starport that day, his attention was drawn to an<BR>advertisement on the wall.&nbsp; It was a recruitment poster for the Imperial<BR>armed forces.&nbsp; A recruitment drive was in full swing.&nbsp; Join The Best!,<BR>it said.&nbsp; Join the Imperial Army, the Marines, the Navy, or serve in<BR>the Interstellar Scout Service!<BR><BR>Like a light bulb flicking on, Shawn formed an idea.&nbsp; He was impulsive<BR>that way.&nbsp; 90 minutes later, he was sitting in front of the Army<BR>recruiter.&nbsp; He couldnt say exactly why he had left the Marine recruiter<BR>and came directly here after being turned down because of his age, but<BR>it might have been because the Marine recruiter suggested he try the<BR>Armya force he said would take anybody.<BR><BR>Grey broached the subject of his ownership of the MARCH HARRIER.&nbsp; How<BR>would he be able to take care of his business investment if he joined<BR>up?<BR><BR>The recruiter told him about how the dearth of enlistees had effected<BR>the strength of the Imperial forces in this sector.&nbsp; With the recent<BR>saber rattling occurring between the Imperium and the Zhodani Consulate,<BR>a move was on to swell the Imperial ranks.&nbsp; There was a special program<BR>in effect for Free Traders like himself.&nbsp; If Grey signed, the MARCH<BR>HARRIER could be stored at a government base for the duration of his<BR>enlistment.&nbsp; A low charge would be deducted from his monthly earnings.<BR>It was an incentive program to get skilled starship crewers to put their<BR>expertise to work for their Emperor, and the money the Imperium saved in<BR>training these folks more than off set the cost of storage for a few<BR>years.<BR><BR>That was all Grey needed to hear.&nbsp; The Navy investigators were too close<BR>to the truth.&nbsp; Grey thought that if he put some time between himself and<BR>the events that happened around this planet, he could set a quiet foot<BR>back on planet after a 4 year term and set off in the HARRIER, finally<BR>making something out of his life.<BR><BR>Oberlindes agreed to suspend the subsidy agreement at the request of the<BR>Army, as long as Grey lived up to the full term of his inherited<BR>contract upon his discharge.<BR><BR>Shawn Grey signed on the dotted line.&nbsp; The MARCH HARRIER went into a<BR>long-term berth at the Aramis Naval yard.&nbsp; And, late one night, after<BR>Grey had shipped out, a team of men went undetected, intruding into the<BR>Naval dock housing the merchant vessel.<BR><BR>The man leading this team was the man who called himself Eneri Giilaan.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 15:10:04 -0600<BR>From: Steve Daniels &lt;stevedaniels@portcaddo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>Legate Legion wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Though in "Catch-22" there was a Major<BR>&gt; Major Major Major.&nbsp; Rank of Major, first name of Major, middle name of<BR>&gt; Major, &amp; last name of Major.<BR><BR>I think he stole that from my family tree and exagerated it a bit.<BR>Maj. Lucien Marcellus Major served in the Union Army during<BR>the US Civil war.&nbsp; His cousin, Capt. Major served the Confederacy.<BR><BR>I'm not talented enough to make that up.<BR><BR>bloo<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 13:04:26 -0800<BR>From: Jesse DeGraff &lt;jdegraff@pacbell.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Question<BR><BR>Yeah, they ain't cheap.&nbsp; And they're murder if they get dirty.&nbsp; Ask Doug,<BR>he's got a /wonderful/ story about that :)<BR><BR>Jesse<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Legate Legion<BR>&gt; Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 12:19 AM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Question<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; From: Jesse Degraff &lt;jedegraf@cisco.com&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;The Barrett I'm firing belongs to a (very rich) buddy of Tod Glenn's.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Cool.&nbsp; Here in Phoenix, we can buy then for about $10,000 at "Right to<BR>&gt; Bear Arms".<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>&gt; ICQ # 8973001<BR>&gt; legate@futureone.com<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>&gt; places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>&gt; passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>&gt; USS Excaliber.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 13:06:49 -0800<BR>From: Jesse DeGraff &lt;jdegraff@pacbell.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Aw crap.....&nbsp; was:RE: Question<BR><BR>Very good idea Mr. Glenn :)<BR>Jesse<BR><BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Tod Glenn<BR>&gt; Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 12:21 PM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Aw crap..... was:RE: Question<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; on 12/15/00 6:18 PM, Jesse Degraff at jedegraf@cisco.com wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Well, consider that unless they made them while the range was "down",<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; odds are they'd be unintelligible due to background noise.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; -- <BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Yeah, audio can get a bit washed out occaisionally on a <BR>&gt; machinegun range :)<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Jesse<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Surely, you can just dub in some suitable background music. "Can't get no<BR>&gt; satisfaction"?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Tod<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt; When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend"<BR>&gt; -- <BR>&gt; Tod L Glenn<BR>&gt; webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>&gt; http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>&gt; http://www.solsec.org<BR>&gt; http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>&gt; http://travellerguns.com<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 13:08:08 -0800<BR>From: Jesse DeGraff &lt;jdegraff@pacbell.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Aw crap.....&nbsp; was:RE: Question<BR><BR>Doug, we'd have had to drape Tod's AI in plastic to keep you from damaging<BR>it with drool.&nbsp; VERY sweet and accurate as all hell!!!!!<BR><BR>Jesse<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Tod Glenn<BR>&gt; Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 12:28 PM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Aw crap..... was:RE: Question<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; on 12/16/00 7:55 AM, Douglas E. Berry at<BR>&gt; gridlore@pop.mindspring.com wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; At 10:34 PM 12/15/2000 PST, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; And I doubt the audio would do justice to the Barretts, much less the<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Lahti and Solothurn. :-)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; *thud* ow! *thud* ow! *thud* ow! *thud* ow! *thud* ow! *thud*<BR>&gt; ow! *thud* ow!<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; That's the sound of me kicking myself for missing the shoot this year.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; But doubtless you've seen the photos. I even brought my Accuracy<BR>&gt; International sniper, thinking of you.&nbsp;&nbsp; Hope you make the next one.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Tod<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt; When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend"<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt; Tod L Glenn<BR>&gt; webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>&gt; http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>&gt; http://www.solsec.org<BR>&gt; http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>&gt; http://travellerguns.com<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 15:22:21 -0600<BR>From: Richard Wilson &lt;rtwilson@rollanet.org&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR><BR>At 10:49 AM 12/16/00, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Oooh. I just have to nitpick here.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;"God created Arrakis to test the faithful."<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;"We Fremen have a saying: 'God created Arrakis to train the faithful.' One <BR>&gt;cannot go against the word of God."<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;BTW, has anyone else noticed the heavy Judaeistic (Jewish) overtones in <BR>&gt;this book? I mean, Paul *is* the long-awaited savior of the universe...<BR><BR>I always thought of the books as being more Islamic in nature. The Fremen <BR>culture seemed to have a strong Arabic flavor and I thought Paul was more <BR>of a Mahdi-type character to the Fremen.<BR><BR><BR>Richard Wilson<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 15:27:51 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: An Excellent Web site! (was Re: TNE (was: TEDs) )<BR><BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; You bet!&nbsp; For an *exellent* example of what a game can be like in<BR>&gt; the post-collapse TU go to...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; http://members.home.net/nightrim/Home.html<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Awesome friggin' site!<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 15:56:43 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR><BR>On 12/15/00 at 11:14 PM,&nbsp; shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:<BR><BR>&gt;In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; I think it interesting to note, too, that Frank wrote much of Dune Messiah <BR>&gt;&gt; and Children of Dune WHILE he was writing Dune.&nbsp; Evidently, Frank had so <BR>&gt;&gt; much material for the first book that he divided it up, making three books <BR>&gt;&gt; out of it.<BR><BR>&gt;Actually, "Dune" was two books glued together. They originally<BR>&gt;appeared as *seperate* novels serialized in Analog in the early<BR>&gt;60s.<BR><BR>Early 60's?&nbsp; Wasn't it later than that...early 70's maybe?<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Stranger in a Strange Land,'<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Can you tell me about this one?&nbsp; I've heard it mentioned many times before, <BR>&gt;&gt; and I know it is supposed to be one of the pillars of science fiction <BR>&gt;&gt; history--but I really don't know what it is about.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Can you clue me in?<BR><BR>&gt;Not without spoiling it. <BR><BR>&gt;All I can say is that major parts of the book deal with a human who<BR>&gt;was raised by Martians and his reactions to Terran Culture and<BR>&gt;Terran culture's reactions to him.<BR><BR>And that's the part that doesn't spoil the real story. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 16:02:00 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: ADMIN: Update (was Re: TML Host IENT Restructures)<BR><BR>On 12/15/00 at 03:00 PM,&nbsp; Rob Miracle &lt;rmiracle@ient.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;I am one of the unfortunate 33.&nbsp; While I don't know what my<BR>&gt;immediate&nbsp; future holds, these lists are still going forward and<BR>&gt;I'm staying the list&nbsp; mom, though through a personal account rather<BR>&gt;than a company account.&nbsp; Be&nbsp; assured that the TML will continue to<BR>&gt;exist and for the immediate future&nbsp; through the servers at iEN.<BR><BR>&gt;Keep the game alive!<BR><BR>&gt;Rob<BR>&gt;yer list mom.<BR><BR>Rob, I'm sorry to hear this. It's a particularly bad time of year to be layed off.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Thank you for being a great list mom. I really appreciate you, and IENT, for providing this service.<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 16:30:31 -0600 (CST)<BR>From: Gregory Carl Kettler &lt;gckettle@midway.uchicago.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Prescient Dreams&nbsp; Re: AHHH! Sailor Moon!<BR><BR>Too bad you don't live in the Zhodani Consulate.&nbsp; You could get the<BR>training you need.<BR>I've had a couple of prescient dreams, but for some odd reason they only<BR>predict my success in computer games (not too useful, is it?).&nbsp; The first<BR>was about Space Quest 3.&nbsp; I was stuck for days, and what I neded was a<BR>ladder.&nbsp; One night I dreamed I was playing and found a ladder, and sure<BR>enough, the next day I found my way into a new area and there<BR>was the ladder.&nbsp; A similar thing happened when I played Zelda.&nbsp; Wouldn't<BR>the Zhodani be impressed?<BR><BR>On Fri, 15 Dec 2000, James Jensen wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I'd like to add that I once had a dream that there was a Sailor Moon CCG - <BR>&gt; months before it happened!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; On a similar vein, I also had a dream about Superman's death. I saw an image <BR>&gt; of a classic scene where he's flying over the city, but Supes was missing <BR>&gt; (nothing but white). Then, like a reporter, there was a voice that said <BR>&gt; "Superman is now a mystery man." I can't remember anymore in full detail, <BR>&gt; but I actually predicted Steel and the Cyborg.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; That day, out shopping, I was looking through a magazine (unless this was <BR>&gt; also a dream. it's so hard to distinguish these kind of memories sometimes) <BR>&gt; and I saw the almost exact same picture (there was a question mark in the <BR>&gt; center of the space where Superman was supposed to be) and read that DC was <BR>&gt; planning to kill Supes.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Freaky. Of course, I bought all the issues (post-mortem to ressurection <BR>&gt; ones; I got a large reprint for the ones leading to his death).<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 18:02:03 -0500<BR>From: "Dan Lane" &lt;danielrlane@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity &amp; FTL<BR><BR>If you want to see something interesting, calculate i ^ i.&nbsp; It is a real<BR>number...no imaginary component.<BR><BR>- -Dan Lane<BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Kristian Miller" &lt;travellerne@3rd-imperium.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 12:38 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity &amp; FTL<BR><BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm wrote:<BR>&gt; ...<BR>&gt; &gt; Example:&nbsp;&nbsp; e^(i*pi) = -1<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Not very intuitive, but true all the same.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Actually, it is intuitive.&nbsp; Look at DeMoivre's formula; rewrite it in<BR>&gt; the form e^(iT) (T = the angle).&nbsp; When T = pi, the point is at (-1, 0i)<BR>&gt; = -1 (on the real-imaginary plane).&nbsp; If you get a math book on complex<BR>&gt; analysis, this should be demonstrated in one of the first chapters--when<BR>&gt; you see it drawn out, you'll go "Ah ha!"<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Someone once said that e^(i*pi + 0) = -1 was the true statement that<BR>&gt; contained every important number in mathematics--all other numbers could<BR>&gt; be derived from these numbers and operations.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Kristian<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 22:49:37 -0000<BR>From: "Ben Aaronovitch" &lt;bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>Eris, I was just curious because it seems so strange a thing for the usually<BR>libertarian US legal system to do.<BR><BR>Like the companies which have legally binding contracts that ban smoking or<BR>drinking outside office hours which would be illegal in the UK (and probably in<BR>the rest of the EU).<BR><BR>The US is such a land of&nbsp; contradictions.<BR><BR>Ben<BR><BR>'Let's be honest here - you paid for the women.'<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Bill Murrey - Scrooged<BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: &lt;eris@pcola.gulf.net&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 8:51 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR><BR>&gt; On 12/16/00 at 04:49 PM,&nbsp; "Ben Aaronovitch" &lt;bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>said:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;So the Government can't actually ban you from going to a country?<BR>&gt; &gt;Legally I mean.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Ben, *I* can ban you from going to a country.&nbsp; &lt;g&gt; I might not be<BR>&gt; able to enforce my ban, or I might/might not be able to and choose<BR>&gt; not to enforce it.&nbsp; I might be unable to enforce such a ban, but<BR>&gt; able to apply consequences after the fact, and I may/may not choose<BR>&gt; to apply those consequences.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Eris<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt; -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>&gt; eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>&gt; http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>&gt; -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 19:28:31 +0100<BR>From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: CLIMAX!&nbsp; Conclusion to the Traveller Adventure<BR><BR>&gt;Thanks for letting me know.&nbsp; I'll go ahead and post the second document (by<BR>&gt;the way, the text is a lot prettier in my formatted Word program--it seems<BR>&gt;to loose something in this plain, courier environment).<BR><BR>Hmm, I for one wouldnt mind an attached word doc, but better post it <BR>privately, so we dont annoy<BR>those on the list who read the digest or wont want it.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 17:01:21 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: The New Traveller Task System<BR><BR>On 12/14/00 at 10:15 PM,&nbsp; "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;On reflection, this isn't such a good system after all due to the<BR>&gt;fact that&nbsp; it completely flounders with 0-level skills.<BR><BR>&gt;Oh well.<BR><BR>&lt;g&gt; Don't give up so fast!&nbsp; If you're going to be a "tasker" (like<BR>gearheads, but with task systems) you can't let the first sign of<BR>trouble stop you.<BR><BR>I don't think you took the Characteristic into account.&nbsp; What about<BR>the following...<BR><BR>Your Skill level is a number of d6s.<BR><BR>Your Characteristic is divided by 3, keeping the remainder.<BR>The quotent is a number of d6 and the remainder is a number of pips.<BR>There is always a minimum of 1 die.<BR><BR>Stat d6+p<BR>- ---------<BR>&nbsp; 1&nbsp; 1d<BR>&nbsp; 2&nbsp; 1d<BR>&nbsp; 3&nbsp; 1d<BR>&nbsp; 4&nbsp; 1d+1<BR>&nbsp; 5&nbsp; 1d+2<BR>&nbsp; 6&nbsp; 2d<BR>&nbsp; 7&nbsp; 2d+1<BR>&nbsp; 8&nbsp; 2d+2<BR>&nbsp; 9&nbsp; 3d<BR>10&nbsp; 3d+1<BR>11&nbsp; 3d+2<BR>12&nbsp; 4d<BR>13&nbsp; 4d+1<BR>14&nbsp; 4d+2<BR>15&nbsp; 5d<BR><BR>Add your Stat and Skill for your rolls.<BR>Ex:&nbsp; Stat= 7, Skill=1&nbsp;&nbsp; Roll 3d+1&nbsp; [4/11.5/19]<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Stat= 7, Skill=4&nbsp;&nbsp; Roll 6d+1&nbsp; [7/22/37]<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Stat= 8, Skill=4&nbsp;&nbsp; Roll 6d+2&nbsp; [8/23/38]<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Stat=12, Skill=1&nbsp;&nbsp; Roll 5d&nbsp; &nbsp; [5/17.5/30]<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Stat= 2, Skill=0&nbsp;&nbsp; Roll 1d&nbsp; &nbsp; [1/3.5/6]<BR><BR>Now see if your idea works...<BR><BR>Oh, and now you can use a d6 style system, too! &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp; Easy<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; 7&nbsp; Routine<BR>&nbsp; 12&nbsp; Difficult<BR>&nbsp; 17&nbsp; Formidable<BR>&nbsp; 22&nbsp; Staggering<BR>&nbsp; 27&nbsp; Hopeless<BR>&nbsp; 32&nbsp; Impossible<BR><BR>...or something of the sort.&nbsp; Ken, d6 was your "thing" last time we<BR>talked about this. Why wouldn't Traveller convert over to d6?<BR>&nbsp; <BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3405<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-xd02.mx.aol.com (rly-xd02.mail.aol.com [172.20.105.167]) by air-xd01.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Sat, 16 Dec 2000 18:53:30 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-xd02.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Sat, 16 Dec 2000 18:53:18 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id SAA77670;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Sat, 16 Dec 2000 18:51:33 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Sat, 16 Dec 2000 18:50:48 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id SAA77393<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Sat, 16 Dec 2000 18:50:47 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 18:50:47 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012162350.SAA77393@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3405<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3406</B></TD></TR>
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<TD vAlign=top width="10%">Date: </TD>
<TD>12/16/00 7:12:51 PM Pacific Standard Time</TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Saturday, December 16 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3406<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: System detailing<BR>Re: The New Traveller Task System<BR>Re: CLIMAX!&nbsp; Conclusion to the Traveller Adventure<BR>Re: Relativistic addition of velocities<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>RE: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR>Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR>Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR>Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR>Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR>Re: Really open question...<BR>Re: Really open question...<BR>Re: Relativistic addition of velocities<BR>RE: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting<BR>Re: Really open question...<BR>Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote Democratic<BR>Re: Question<BR>Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR>Re: Really open question...<BR>Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 17:44:09 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: System detailing<BR><BR>On 12/12/00 at 01:32 PM,&nbsp; "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" &lt;sdaniels@playnet.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;Place the Giants first.&nbsp; They are usually outside the<BR>&gt;life zone, according to First In. The FI numbers are<BR>&gt;Inner Zone&nbsp; 3-<BR>&gt;Life Zone&nbsp;&nbsp; 4-<BR>&gt;Middle Zone&nbsp; 7-<BR>&gt;Outer Zone&nbsp;&nbsp; 14-<BR><BR>&gt;Then the Belts.&nbsp; The FI system confuses me, so just<BR>&gt;put 'em where they're sexy.<BR><BR>Put the belts adjacent to gas giants.&nbsp; Giants probably disrupt the<BR>formation of nearby planets.<BR><BR>&gt;The rest of the orbits have planets.&nbsp; You need diameters, and<BR>&gt;densities for each if you want surface gravity and tidal forces and<BR>&gt;. . .<BR><BR>&gt;Then the real fun - Moons!&nbsp; And moons and moons and moons. This is<BR>&gt;where I usually give up and go wish for the First In spreadsheet<BR>&gt;that I can't find.<BR><BR>This is where I stop. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 18:39:56 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The New Traveller Task System<BR><BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; ...or something of the sort.&nbsp; Ken, d6 was your "thing" last time we<BR>&gt; talked about this. Why wouldn't Traveller convert over to d6?<BR><BR>D6, in my opinion, is the best rules systems I've ever seen (and I<BR>haven't seen all of them).&nbsp; It is still on the top of my list...<BR><BR>..but, that's Star Wars' system, not Traveller's.<BR><BR>I think D6 would work nicely with Traveller, but you'd have to remake<BR>the patented Traveller chargen system--and I'm just not willing to give<BR>that up in Traveller.<BR><BR>No, Traveller needs its own system--one that works well with characters<BR>whose stats range from 2-15, with 7 representing an average human--and<BR>with skills that range from level 0-5 or even 6 or higher.<BR><BR>KB3 definitely takes a nudge from D6, but it is its own Traveller<BR>system, different from D6 in many ways.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 18:41:48 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: CLIMAX!&nbsp; Conclusion to the Traveller Adventure<BR><BR>"Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;Thanks for letting me know.&nbsp; I'll go ahead and post the second document (by<BR>&gt; &gt;the way, the text is a lot prettier in my formatted Word program--it seems<BR>&gt; &gt;to loose something in this plain, courier environment).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Hmm, I for one wouldnt mind an attached word doc, but better post it<BR>&gt; privately, so we dont annoy<BR>&gt; those on the list who read the digest or wont want it.<BR><BR>Naw...I wouldn't send an attachment to the list.&nbsp; I'll just post them normally<BR>in plain text, e-mail format.<BR><BR>Cut-n-paste from the Word doc.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 19:57:50 -0500<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Relativistic addition of velocities<BR><BR>On Sat, 16 Dec 2000 02:35:28 -0500 (EST), Timothy Little<BR>&lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;On Sat, Dec 16, 2000 at 01:34:08AM -0500, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; The formula that I've been seeing for adding velocities A and B is<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; (A+B)/(1+AB)<BR><BR>&gt;In units where C=1, yes, e.g. time in years and distance in<BR>&gt;light-years.&nbsp; Otherwise<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; (A+B)/(1+(AB/(C^2)))<BR><BR>Ah! So I was remembering correctly; the reciprocal-c-squared simply drops<BR>out when you take units of c.&nbsp; Thanks.<BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>(Ask me via email about the ILink message network!)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 18:33:53 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;&lt; Why does the US persist in clinging to it hugely inefficent insurance<BR>model of health care? Why does the US allow so many blatantly "silly" law<BR>suits? Why does the US have such a problem with gun control? Why does the<BR>US so fear its own government? All these things seem quite baffling to me,<BR>yet I assume they all make perfect sense if you're on the inside. &gt;&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Because it works, no matter what happens, Americans have some of the<BR>best medical care anywhere.&nbsp; Because we like to amuse you people in other<BR>countries, that &amp; we have so many silly laws forced upon us by our own<BR>government.&nbsp; Ask Jesse about that, we have no problem in controling guns, we<BR>need them to protect us from Canada.&nbsp; Everyone fears their own government,<BR>but in the US you are able to voice that fear.&nbsp; IIRC, in the UK &amp; Brittish<BR>Commonwealth it is illegal to fear your government, is it not?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 01:46:18 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; You never saw Hellraiser?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Nope. I caught snatches of II or III on cable months ago. But<BR>&gt; that's it. <BR><BR>Scores out of 10 ...<BR><BR>Hellraiser&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 10<BR>Hellraiser II&nbsp; &nbsp; 8<BR>Hellraiser III&nbsp;&nbsp; 1<BR>Hellraiser IV&nbsp; &nbsp; 3<BR><BR>I'd recommend renting&nbsp; the&nbsp; first&nbsp; 2&nbsp; movies&nbsp; and&nbsp; watching&nbsp; them<BR>alone back-to-back on a large screen TV with the sound turned&nbsp; up<BR>and the phone off the hook.<BR><BR>As is usual with movies the first in&nbsp; the&nbsp; series&nbsp; is&nbsp; the&nbsp; best.<BR>Hellraiser II was almost as good ... it explains a lot more about<BR>whats going on while still maintaining the central&nbsp; psychological<BR>themes.&nbsp; Hellraiser III is an extremely poor movie trying to cash<BR>in on the success of the first two movies.&nbsp; It was here that&nbsp; the<BR>producers lost the plot and thought good horror movies&nbsp; are&nbsp; just<BR>about gore.&nbsp; The fourth and last movie atleast had&nbsp; a&nbsp; couple&nbsp; of<BR>new&nbsp; ideas&nbsp; but&nbsp; not&nbsp; enough&nbsp; to&nbsp; recapture&nbsp; the&nbsp; dark&nbsp;&nbsp; Freudian<BR>undercurrents of the first and second movie.<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 17:15:34 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; The do keep a list of countries that Americans should avoid.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ObTrav: The US has it's own Amber Zone classifications...<BR><BR>And far too many people ignore them and then expect the US to get them<BR>out of the trouble they got themselves into. :-(<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 17:18:59 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; So the Government can't actually ban you from going to a country?<BR>&gt; Legally I mean.<BR><BR>At the very least, they could revoke your passport. Which would result<BR>in big problems when you wanted to *leave* said country, or return to<BR>the US.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 17:20:35 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Eris, I was just curious because it seems so strange a thing for the usually<BR>&gt; libertarian US legal system to do.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Like the companies which have legally binding contracts that ban smoking or<BR>&gt; drinking outside office hours which would be illegal in the UK (and probably <BR>&gt; in the rest of the EU).<BR><BR>Most of those contracts have legitimate business reasons.<BR><BR>For example, it's been found that smokers continue to emit large<BR>numbers of smoke particles in their breath for *hours* after having a<BR>cigarette. In semiconductor manufacturing, those exhaled particulates<BR>affect the chips being made. So there's a legitimate reason for not<BR>allowing smokers to work in the clean rooms. <BR><BR>Drinking can be banned (or at least having consumed alcohol in a<BR>certain period before going on shift) for jobs involving driving,<BR>piloting, or operating heavy equipment (safety concerns).<BR><BR>And then you get into muddier waters where group health plans are<BR>concerned. Smokers &amp; drinkers cost more to cover. So the company can be<BR>argued to have an interest there. <BR><BR>&gt; The US is such a land of&nbsp; contradictions.<BR><BR>Yes and no. <BR><BR>Some of the "contradictions" are merely a case of starting from<BR>different axioms. Others are due to attempts to strike a balance<BR>between principles that conflict if applied absolutely.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 17:27:31 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; On 12/15/00 at 11:14 PM,&nbsp; shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Actually, "Dune" was two books glued together. They originally<BR>&gt;&gt;appeared as *seperate* novels serialized in Analog in the early<BR>&gt;&gt;60s.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Early 60's?&nbsp; Wasn't it later than that...early 70's maybe?<BR><BR>Nope. Because I *read* the book in Junior high, and my last year in<BR>Junior high was 1970. :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 17:34:59 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Oooh. I just have to nitpick here.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;"God created Arrakis to test the faithful."<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "We Fremen have a saying: 'God created Arrakis to train the faithful.' One <BR>&gt; cannot go against the word of God."<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; BTW, has anyone else noticed the heavy Judaeistic (Jewish) overtones in this <BR>&gt; book? I mean, Paul *is* the long-awaited savior of the universe...<BR><BR>It's an amalgam of Jewish, Christian, and Islamic influences.<BR><BR>And some of them are downright *weird*. For example, "the Orange<BR>Catholic Bible". For those not aware of it, in Ireland (and elsewhere)<BR>the "Orangemen" are *very* anti-Catholic Protestants...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 17:38:23 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; What about, "Look into that place you dare not look! You'll find me there,<BR>&gt; staring back at you!" I think that this was only from the original movie,<BR>&gt; because I cna't seem to find it in the book, but it's a good one.<BR><BR>I'm pretty certain that it *is* in the book.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 17:39:09 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; I don't think it is a coincidence that Arrakis is a desert world.&nbsp; I'm just<BR>&gt; surprised he didn't call the book "The Planet Israel".<BR><BR>I'm not. The Islamic/Arab influences are far more evident.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 17:40:30 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; At 10:49 AM 12/16/00, you wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Oooh. I just have to nitpick here.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;"God created Arrakis to test the faithful."<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;"We Fremen have a saying: 'God created Arrakis to train the faithful.' One <BR>&gt;&gt;cannot go against the word of God."<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;BTW, has anyone else noticed the heavy Judaeistic (Jewish) overtones in <BR>&gt;&gt;this book? I mean, Paul *is* the long-awaited savior of the universe...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I always thought of the books as being more Islamic in nature. The Fremen <BR>&gt; culture seemed to have a strong Arabic flavor and I thought Paul was more <BR>&gt; of a Mahdi-type character to the Fremen.<BR><BR>Actually, much of the book is about Paul's efforts to *avoid* becoming<BR>another Mahdi. That's why it's such a victory when he gets them to call<BR>him Maud'dib instead. It shows that he *can* change the future he's<BR>seen. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 17:45:21 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Really open question...<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Jeff Zeitlin wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; What do people think of James White's Sector General series?&nbsp; Both<BR>&gt;&gt; as random reads and as ideas for color in a Traveller universe?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I quite liked them.&nbsp; I haven't read them all, but I didn't read one I<BR>&gt; really disliked.&nbsp; They would probably make good Traveller settings --<BR>&gt; it's a great way to have the PCs meet strange new life forms (and not<BR>&gt; shoot them).<BR><BR>I can think of a couple of cases where the players can go right ahead<BR>and shoot at them. The "large"&lt;g&gt; alien in "Major Operation" comes to<BR>mind. <BR><BR>Most players don't have weapons capable of doing more than irritating<BR>"him". :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 17:42:19 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Really open question...<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;What do people think of James White's Sector General series?&nbsp; Both as<BR>&gt;&gt;random reads and as ideas for color in a Traveller universe?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; They are great.&nbsp; To be honest with you, he is one of the best Silver Age<BR>&gt; SF Authors out there.&nbsp; I like how on Sector General it feels like a real<BR>&gt; hospital, &amp; having worked at T-Bird Sam in Phoenix, I know what a real<BR>&gt; hospital feels like, &amp; Sector General feels real.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Random Reads:&nbsp; Hell, yes.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Traveller Universe Color:&nbsp; Not really, not that many Major Races around,<BR>&gt; nor would a idea like Sector General be around.&nbsp; I can see it in ST, &amp; I<BR>&gt; have placed something like that in my LUGTrek game.<BR><BR>Well, in a non-OTU TU, I could see something like Sector General. <BR><BR>There are also several stories by white set in the same universe, but<BR>without involving Sector General. One deals with a war that results<BR>from a botched first contact, and how it is ended. <BR><BR>I don't recall the name of the story, but the alien race looks like<BR>teddybears. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 18:03:31 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Relativistic addition of velocities<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; The formula that I've been seeing for adding velocities A and B is<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; (A+B)/(1+AB)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Somehow, I remember a factor of reciprocal c^2 in there:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; (A+B)/(1+(AB/(C^2)))<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Could someone explain to me why I'm remembering wrong, and where that<BR>&gt; memory comes from?<BR><BR>You aren't remembering wrong. That goes in when you are using "normal"<BR>units. <BR><BR>When you express velocities as "c=1", the 1/C^2 term becomes 1 and<BR>drops out.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 02:10:02 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting<BR><BR>Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt; Jonathan McDermott wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; I thought it Lemarchand's Configuration? =)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; It is (otherwise Hellraiser 4 makes no/less sense).<BR><BR>In the introduction by Clive Barker himself&nbsp; to&nbsp; "Clive&nbsp; Barker's<BR>Hellraiser"&nbsp; (Epic&nbsp; Comics,&nbsp; 1989)&nbsp; he&nbsp; refers&nbsp; to&nbsp; the&nbsp;&nbsp; "Lament<BR>Configuration".&nbsp; (The "Hellraise IV" movie was copyright 1996.)<BR><BR>As I understand it the "Lament&nbsp; Configuration"&nbsp; is&nbsp; a&nbsp; *path*&nbsp; to<BR>opening the doorway to hell ... solving the Lemarchand puzzle box<BR>(or one of its clones) is just one of the Lament&nbsp; Configurations.<BR>The "Clive Barker's Hellraiser" comic (?) explored&nbsp; some&nbsp; of&nbsp; the<BR>others.<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; Fatal flaw with the plan...if the victim knows what that funny<BR>&gt; gold box is you have to rely on his boredom for it to have any<BR>&gt; effect :). Frankly, if I was immortal and regenerating I'd<BR>&gt; probably try to wait it out or try to escape. <BR><BR>I think you&nbsp; underestimate&nbsp; the&nbsp; effects&nbsp; of&nbsp; long-term&nbsp; boredom.<BR>After a few years even the strongest mind would rather&nbsp; open&nbsp; the<BR>box, knowing what it would mean.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 18:35:27 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Really open question...<BR><BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;!!!!!!&nbsp; I suppose you'll have them joining drumming circles and going<BR>&gt;to chiropractors next, trying to make them into a bunch of<BR>&gt;tree-hugging sissies?&nbsp; Isn't that right, Timothy Little... or should<BR>&gt;I say, Timothy LENIN??????<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Who forgot to give Kenji his Drug Drug?&nbsp; I know it wasn't me because I<BR>did it last week.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 18:37:59 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote Democratic<BR><BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Kenji, no matter what everyone else says, it is good to have you<BR>back.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Ha ha.&nbsp; Nice try.&nbsp; The generalized contempt for the public that I've<BR>&gt;just had installed here at Harvard -- plus the new pills -- makes me<BR>&gt;immune to your outdated paranoia-inducement techniques!<BR>&gt;Hahahhahahaha!&nbsp; I'm invincible!<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Well, Doug you wee right, he is totally paranoid.&nbsp; So should we have<BR>Jesse use him as a target at his next fun shoot?<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; And, whose bright idea was to give him a weapon.&nbsp; In the fun shoot pics,<BR>it looks like Kenji is using a weapon.<BR><BR>&gt;Back to the point, though:&nbsp; another useful skill these SBS vets would<BR>&gt;have is ice carving -- good for entertaining oneself while wilderness<BR>&gt;refuelling from asteroids and the like, and finally giving ex-Army<BR>&gt;characters some minimal role on PC starships.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Of course, they could have also been working in the comfort area of<BR>military service, you know.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 18:40:59 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question<BR><BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; One argument.&nbsp; Who let Kenji near a weapon, much less shoot one?&nbsp; I<BR>&gt;&gt;would not trust him, no matter how much I like him, with a butter knife<BR>&gt;&gt;around me, much less a fire-arm.&nbsp; Remember the time at the Country Club<BR>with<BR>&gt;&gt;the salad oil?&nbsp; &lt;j/k&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Urrrrk??? I was not at this shoot, not by a long shot.&nbsp; I think that<BR>&gt;at the moment those photos were taken, I was here in Cambridge<BR>&gt;carding preppies and pouring beer (no lap dances, though).&nbsp; Now,<BR>&gt;whether my *mind* was, at that very same moment, on a machine gun<BR>&gt;range... well... who can say?<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; The Zhodani can say.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; But, it is funny, a First Class Ticket from Cambridge to West Coast was<BR>used by a Lenji Tchwarz just before &amp; just after the Fun Shoot.&nbsp; And,<BR>knowing how cunning you are, I am willing to bet you are Lenji, aren't you?<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; And, why aren't you hunting preppies, didn't you know it was Preppie<BR>Hunting Season, Kenji?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 20:37:03 -0600<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR><BR>&gt;In mail you write:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; At 10:49 AM 12/16/00, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;Oooh. I just have to nitpick here.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;"God created Arrakis to test the faithful."<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;"We Fremen have a saying: 'God created Arrakis to train the faithful.' <BR>&gt;One<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;cannot go against the word of God."<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;BTW, has anyone else noticed the heavy Judaeistic (Jewish) overtones in<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;this book? I mean, Paul *is* the long-awaited savior of the universe...<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; I always thought of the books as being more Islamic in nature. The <BR>&gt;Fremen<BR>&gt; &gt; culture seemed to have a strong Arabic flavor and I thought Paul was <BR>&gt;more<BR>&gt; &gt; of a Mahdi-type character to the Fremen.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Actually, much of the book is about Paul's efforts to *avoid* becoming<BR>&gt;another Mahdi. That's why it's such a victory when he gets them to call<BR>&gt;him Maud'dib instead. It shows that he *can* change the future he's<BR>&gt;seen.<BR><BR>Sorry, but you're wrong here. His victory was to get them to call him _Paul_ <BR>Maud'dib.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>http://members.nbci.com/cheebzero/<BR>_________________________________________________________________<BR>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 20:42:47 -0600<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Really open question...<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;!!!!!!&nbsp; I suppose you'll have them joining drumming circles and going<BR>&gt; &gt;to chiropractors next, trying to make them into a bunch of<BR>&gt; &gt;tree-hugging sissies?&nbsp; Isn't that right, Timothy Little... or should<BR>&gt; &gt;I say, Timothy LENIN??????<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Who forgot to give Kenji his Drug Drug?&nbsp; I know it wasn't me because I<BR>&gt;did it last week.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>SPPPPPPLLLLLOOOOOOORRRRRRTTTTTTT!!!<BR><BR>LOL!<BR><BR>Can anyone tell me who's responsible for that little slip in T4?<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>http://members.nbci.com/cheebzero/<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________<BR>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 21:10:45 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR><BR>On 12/16/00 at 05:27 PM,&nbsp; shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:<BR><BR>&gt;In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; On 12/15/00 at 11:14 PM,&nbsp; shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;Actually, "Dune" was two books glued together. They originally<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;appeared as *seperate* novels serialized in Analog in the early<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;60s.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Early 60's?&nbsp; Wasn't it later than that...early 70's maybe?<BR><BR>&gt;Nope. Because I *read* the book in Junior high, and my last year in<BR>&gt;Junior high was 1970. :-)<BR><BR>I looked it up and you were right. The serials were in Analog back between December 1963 to May 1965.&nbsp; I know I read the serials in Analog, and I didn't start my subscription until the summer of 1969. However, I did buy a lot of old issues from the early 60's from a store in Gainesville in 1970, that must be where I got the issues with Dune World and The Prophet of Dune. I guess I confused the time of publication with when I actually read them.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3406<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Sunday, December 17 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3407<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Relativity &amp; FTL<BR>Re: Relativity &amp; FTL<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR>Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR>Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR>Oregon Fun Shoot<BR>re: Darrian<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3391<BR>RE: AHHH! Sailor Moon!<BR>RE: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>RE: CLIMAX!&nbsp; Conclusion to the Traveller Adventure<BR>RE: Aw crap.....&nbsp; was:RE: Question<BR>Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR>RE: Question<BR>RE: AHHH! Sailor Moon!<BR>RE: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Volker, e-mail me would ya...<BR>Re: Really open question...<BR>Re: Really open question...<BR>RE: AHHH! Sailor Moon!<BR>RE: AHHH! Sailor Moon!<BR>Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote Democratic<BR>RE: AHHH! Sailor Moon!<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote Democratic<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 18:11:24 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity &amp; FTL<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Relativistic formulae don't help because their math quickly<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; degenerates into &gt; crud (it's still impossible to square-root<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; a negative number). But I assume that the *effects*<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; postulated would continue to apply.<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Sorry for ignoring the rest of your post, but I got stopped here since<BR>&gt;&gt;you are wildly off beam with the square-root thing. Not only is it<BR>&gt;&gt;possible, but number theory - the basis for just about all modern<BR>&gt;&gt;mathematics - works around the complex-number structure (in which<BR>&gt;&gt;numbers have two components; a "real" - ie. countable - part and an<BR>&gt;&gt;"imaginary" part) where imaginary numbers are based on the fundamental<BR>&gt;&gt;value of the square root of minus one.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I stand corrected. But it's still impossible to squareroot a negative number <BR>&gt; and come up with a real number, right?<BR><BR>Yes, but so what? "Real" and "imaginary" are unfortunate labels<BR>reflecting the prejudices of mathematicians at the time "imaginary"<BR>numbers were introduced. <BR><BR>It's just as "silly" (or whatever term you care to pick) to object<BR>because one of the roots of a positive number is a negative number. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 18:16:25 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity &amp; FTL<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Mark Preston wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; you are wildly off beam with the square-root thing. Not only is it<BR>&gt;&gt; possible, but number theory - the basis for just about all modern<BR>&gt;&gt; mathematics - works around the complex-number structure<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Example:&nbsp;&nbsp; e^(i*pi) = -1<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Not very intuitive, but true all the same.<BR><BR>I prefer:<BR><BR>e^(-pi/2) = i^i<BR><BR>*much* stranger. :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 22:23:43 -0500<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Subject: Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR><BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) puts into the Ether:<BR>&gt;In mail you write:<BR>&gt; &gt; What about, "Look into that place you dare not look! You'll find me there,<BR>&gt; &gt; staring back at you!" I think that this was only from the original movie,<BR>&gt; &gt; because I cna't seem to find it in the book, but it's a good one.<BR>&gt;I'm pretty certain that it *is* in the book.<BR><BR><BR>The old woman locked eyes with him.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; "Try your tricks on me, old witch," Paul said. "Where's your gom <BR>jabbar? Try looking into that place where you dare not look! You'll find me <BR>there staring out at you!"<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The old woman dropped her gaze.<BR><BR>======<BR><BR>Close enough for me.<BR>- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else <BR>wants `em.<BR>It was a typical net.exercise -- a screaming mob pounding on a greasy spot<BR>on the pavement, where used to lie the carcass of a dead horse.<BR>- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 21:23:51 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR><BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; However, I did buy a lot of old issues from the early 60's from a store in Gainesville in 1970, that must be where I got the issues with Dune World and The Prophet of Dune. I guess I confused the time of publication with when I actually read them.<BR><BR>What stuff, besides the six novels in the series, the three prequels not yet completed, and the Dune Encyclopedia exist?<BR><BR>Are there magazine stories that were never published in book form?<BR><BR>Thanks,<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 21:33:12 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR><BR>On 12/16/00 at 09:23 PM,&nbsp; Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; However, I did buy a lot of old issues from the early 60's from a store in Gainesville in 1970, that must be where I got the issues with Dune World and The Prophet of Dune. I guess I confused the time of publication with when I actually read them.<BR><BR>&gt;What stuff, besides the six novels in the series, the three<BR>&gt;prequels not yet completed, and the Dune Encyclopedia exist?<BR><BR>&gt;Are there magazine stories that were never published in book form?<BR><BR>Don't ask me, Ken. I'm not a Duneoligiest. &lt;g&gt;&nbsp; I just remembered that I read the original Dune stories in Analog long, long ago. <BR><BR>Eris<BR><BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 19:58:43 -0800<BR>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Oregon Fun Shoot<BR><BR>Those are some nice pictures on Jesse's site.&nbsp; I'm looking forward to<BR>participating at the next one (May or thereabouts, right?).&nbsp; I hope Doug can<BR>go, too.<BR><BR>- --Glenn<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 19:58:47 -0800<BR>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: re: Darrian<BR><BR>&gt;From: "michael.scanlon" &lt;michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I was wondering if any body and any leads for more information on the<BR>planet<BR>&gt;Darrian. I have the few snippets from CT Supplement 3, and have looked<BR>&gt;briefly at what there is in the, GURPS Traveller: Behind The Claw, though<BR>&gt;have not yet found anything with any great detail.<BR><BR>You do know that GDW published an Alien Module on the Darrians, don't you.<BR>You might be able to get it from Marc Miller -- and he's likely to republish<BR>it along with the rest of the CT stuff.<BR><BR>- --Glenn<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 20:34:21 -0800<BR>From: "Pronto" &lt;pronto_r031@telus.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3391<BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp;&nbsp; wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Let's see...&nbsp; I live in San Francisco.&nbsp; Go to Chinatown, and the street<BR>&gt; signs are in Chinese (as are the menus at McDonalds).&nbsp; Head across<BR>&gt; Columbus, and Italian is still a very common language in North Beach.&nbsp; Go<BR>&gt; into the Mission District, and you're likely to hear Vietnamese, Spanish,<BR>&gt; and Tagalog.&nbsp; In my neighborhood, we have a large Russian population, so<BR>&gt; stores with Cyrillic signs in the window are not uncommon.&nbsp; The guy who<BR>&gt; owns the barbershop I go to is a veteran of the Red Army's push on Berlin,<BR>&gt; and tells great stories in an odd mixture of English, Russian, and Uzbeck.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Our pizza delivery place is run by Russians, and the usual Chinese<BR>delivery<BR>&gt; guy is Samoan.&nbsp; Kirsten's favorite sushi place is run by Japanese<BR>&gt; immigrants.&nbsp; All this in just over 47 square miles.<BR>&gt;<BR>I don't see any French in that list. You just raised my opinion of the<BR>American intelligence.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 18:21:05 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: AHHH! Sailor Moon!<BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry wrote :<BR><BR>&gt; (For our younger readers: Mods are what British Goths were before vampires<BR>&gt; were cool.&nbsp; We also were a bit more active than your standard<BR>&gt; Goth.&nbsp; Thanks to The Who, many American teens in NorCal started wearing<BR>Army surplus<BR>&gt; ponchos and riding scooters.)<BR><BR>Hmm, I don't see how you manage to conflate Goths with Mods.<BR><BR>While I never was a Goth, my understandng of Goths was that they don't have<BR>a fetish with motor-scooters and wing-mirors, and aren't much into<BR>punch-ups, things that Mods lived for.<BR><BR>They're also seperated by about fifteen years of time, Mods being around in<BR>the late sixties - early seventies, having grown out of the teddy-boy<BR>movement of the late fifties - early sixties, and basically metamorphizing<BR>into the New Romantic movement of the late seventies -early eighties.<BR><BR>Or is this one of those "Americanizations" of a British thing like the<BR>difference between 'real' Punks and Californian Punks?<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 18:27:01 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>Ben Aaronovitch wrote :<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; You know, these posts have been a revelation.<BR>&gt; I didn't know that anyone has naming laws at all.<BR><BR>That's the TML for you, learn something new all the time.<BR><BR>&gt; PS: is it true that the US government can ban US citizens<BR>&gt; from visiting certain foriegn countries?<BR><BR>Don't know about the US, but New Zealand, Australia, and England can ban<BR>servicemen and anyone else with a security clearance, from visiting any<BR>country considered to be a security risk.<BR><BR>They could theoretically prevent any citizen from leaving the country just<BR>by refusing to process them at customs, but that would likely result in a<BR>law suit.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 18:36:05 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: CLIMAX!&nbsp; Conclusion to the Traveller Adventure<BR><BR>Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann wrote :<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Thanks for letting me know.&nbsp; I'll go ahead and post the second<BR>&gt; &gt; document (by the way, the text is a lot prettier in my formatted<BR>&gt; &gt; Word program--it seems to loose something in this plain,<BR>&gt; &gt; courier environment).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Hmm, I for one wouldnt mind an attached word doc, but better<BR>&gt; post it privately, so we dont annoy those on the list who read<BR>&gt; the digest or wont want it.<BR><BR>If you're going to do as Volker suggests, I'd like to be on the list that<BR>get's it, please !<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 20:48:32<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Aw crap.....&nbsp; was:RE: Question<BR><BR>At 01:08 PM 12/16/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>&gt;Doug, we'd have had to drape Tod's AI in plastic to keep you from damaging<BR>&gt;it with drool.&nbsp; VERY sweet and accurate as all hell!!!!!<BR><BR>Jesse, you know me better than that!&nbsp; I'd be drooling right up until I<BR>touched the weapon, then I'd be a pro.<BR><BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 20:53:47<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR><BR>Mu'ad-dib is Fremen for sh*thead.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 20:57:54<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Question<BR><BR>At 01:04 PM 12/16/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>&gt;Yeah, they ain't cheap.&nbsp; And they're murder if they get dirty.&nbsp; Ask Doug,<BR>&gt;he's got a /wonderful/ story about that :)<BR><BR>I'm glad you are so amused..&nbsp; :P<BR><BR>Briefly, I was part of the Army acceptance test for the Barret.&nbsp; During one<BR>test, the recoil cylinder got fouled with sand and dirt.&nbsp; I fired.&nbsp; To this<BR>day I beleive that it is a sign from God that my collarbone didn't end up<BR>embedded in my hip.&nbsp; The bruise was spectacular, and it was almost two<BR>weeks before I could use my right arm.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 21:24:08<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: AHHH! Sailor Moon!<BR><BR>At 06:21 PM 12/17/2000 +1300, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Hmm, I don't see how you manage to conflate Goths with Mods.<BR><BR>Group of youth who feel alienated from society, and dress exactly alike to<BR>express their individuality.&nbsp; Except we had much better music.<BR><BR>&gt;While I never was a Goth, my understandng of Goths was that they don't have<BR>&gt;a fetish with motor-scooters and wing-mirors, and aren't much into<BR>&gt;punch-ups, things that Mods lived for.<BR><BR>Ah, the memories.&nbsp; :)<BR><BR>&gt;They're also seperated by about fifteen years of time, Mods being around in<BR>&gt;the late sixties - early seventies, having grown out of the teddy-boy<BR>&gt;movement of the late fifties - early sixties, and basically metamorphizing<BR>&gt;into the New Romantic movement of the late seventies -early eighties.<BR><BR>Mod died with Keith Moon.<BR><BR>&gt;Or is this one of those "Americanizations" of a British thing like the<BR>&gt;difference between 'real' Punks and Californian Punks?<BR><BR>The revival I was part of in the early eighties was set off by two things:<BR>The Who's "last" tour, and Quadrophrenia in the midnight move circut.&nbsp; We<BR>all did our best to mimic the look of the film, and listened to all the<BR>"right" music.&nbsp; It did broaden my musical horizons a great deal.<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 21:31:04<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>At 06:27 PM 12/17/2000 +1300, you wrote:<BR>&gt;Ben Aaronovitch wrote :<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; PS: is it true that the US government can ban US citizens<BR>&gt;&gt; from visiting certain foriegn countries?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Don't know about the US, but New Zealand, Australia, and England can ban<BR>&gt;servicemen and anyone else with a security clearance, from visiting any<BR>&gt;country considered to be a security risk.<BR><BR>Same thing here.&nbsp; I held a Secret clearence, and there was a long list of<BR>things I was not allowed to do.&nbsp; Visiting the Evil Commies without a lot of<BR>advance notice was numbers 1 through 5 on the list.<BR><BR>&gt;They could theoretically prevent any citizen from leaving the country just<BR>&gt;by refusing to process them at customs, but that would likely result in a<BR>&gt;law suit.<BR><BR>Actually, since the federal government has explict control over the nations<BR>borders, that suit probably wouldn't go far.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 23:49:43 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Volker, e-mail me would ya...<BR><BR>I need your e-mail address.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 20:58:35 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Really open question...<BR><BR>From: James Jensen &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;!!!!!!&nbsp; I suppose you'll have them joining drumming circles and going<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;to chiropractors next, trying to make them into a bunch of<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;tree-hugging sissies?&nbsp; Isn't that right, Timothy Little... or should<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;I say, Timothy LENIN??????<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Who forgot to give Kenji his Drug Drug?&nbsp; I know it wasn't me because<BR>I<BR>&gt;&gt;did it last week.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;SPPPPPPLLLLLOOOOOOORRRRRRTTTTTTT!!!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;LOL!<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Was that a Keyboard Kill I hear?<BR><BR>&gt;Can anyone tell me who's responsible for that little slip in T4?<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Elvis or Kenji, you know we have to keep him on Drug Drug or he gets<BR>insane &amp; does things like buy GURPS Traveller Books or go to an Ivy League<BR>School.&nbsp; (Yes, I know I do, but I am not on Drug Drug).<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 20:59:55 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Really open question...<BR><BR>From: Leonard Erickson &lt;shadow@krypton.rain.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;There are also several stories by white set in the same universe, but<BR>&gt;without involving Sector General. One deals with a war that results<BR>&gt;from a botched first contact, and how it is ended.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Are you talking about the one where the idea of Sector General is<BR>started?&nbsp; Where they have the last two warriors fighting it out, but held in<BR>stasis?<BR><BR>&gt;I don't recall the name of the story, but the alien race looks like<BR>&gt;teddybears.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Its in a prequel to the Sector General Books.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 19:21:50 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: AHHH! Sailor Moon!<BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry wrote :<BR>&gt; At 06:21 PM 12/17/2000 +1300, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;Hmm, I don't see how you manage to conflate Goths with Mods.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Group of youth who feel alienated from society, and dress exactly alike to<BR>&gt; express their individuality.&nbsp; Except we had much better music.<BR><BR>OK, I understand what you meant now.<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Or is this one of those "Americanizations" of a British thing like the<BR>&gt; &gt;difference between 'real' Punks and Californian Punks?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The revival I was part of in the early eighties was set off by two things:<BR>&gt; The Who's "last" tour, and Quadrophrenia in the midnight move circut.&nbsp; We<BR>&gt; all did our best to mimic the look of the film, and listened to all the<BR>&gt; "right" music.<BR><BR>Ah, that explains something else as well.<BR>I thought you looked too young (in the photo's on your site) to have been<BR>active during the<BR>real Mod period.<BR><BR>&gt; It did broaden my musical horizons a great deal.<BR><BR>That it would. Quadrophenia, Tommy, and the rest would certainly provide a<BR>different outlook than the Top 40 of the time.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 00:30:47 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: RE: AHHH! Sailor Moon!<BR><BR>On 12/16/00 at 09:24 PM,&nbsp; "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;At 06:21 PM 12/17/2000 +1300, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Hmm, I don't see how you manage to conflate Goths with Mods.<BR><BR>&gt;Group of youth who feel alienated from society, and dress exactly<BR>&gt;alike to express their individuality.&nbsp; Except we had much better<BR>&gt;music.<BR><BR>Doug, that describes most groups of youth. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;While I never was a Goth, my understandng of Goths was that they don't have<BR>&gt;&gt;a fetish with motor-scooters and wing-mirors, and aren't much into<BR>&gt;&gt;punch-ups, things that Mods lived for.<BR><BR>&gt;Ah, the memories.&nbsp; :)<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;They're also seperated by about fifteen years of time, Mods being around in<BR>&gt;&gt;the late sixties - early seventies, having grown out of the teddy-boy<BR>&gt;&gt;movement of the late fifties - early sixties, and basically metamorphizing<BR>&gt;&gt;into the New Romantic movement of the late seventies -early eighties.<BR><BR>&gt;Mod died with Keith Moon.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Or is this one of those "Americanizations" of a British thing like the<BR>&gt;&gt;difference between 'real' Punks and Californian Punks?<BR><BR>&gt;The revival I was part of in the early eighties was set off by two<BR>&gt;things: The Who's "last" tour, and Quadrophrenia in the midnight<BR>&gt;move circut.&nbsp; We all did our best to mimic the look of the film,<BR>&gt;and listened to all the "right" music.&nbsp; It did broaden my musical<BR>&gt;horizons a great deal.<BR><BR>The context I remember from the mid-60's was Mods vs.&nbsp; Rockers, mock<BR>Edwardian suits vs mock Hell's Angels jeans and chains, motor<BR>scooters vs "hogs", grass vs whiskey, Beatles vs Stones.&nbsp; Of course,<BR>that was long ago and far away, and I was a country boy in the<BR>American south who's only glimpses of alien British culture were<BR>occasional clips on TV.&nbsp; &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 01:43:38 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote Democratic<BR><BR>Legate Legion wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; And, whose bright idea was to give him a weapon.&nbsp; In the fun shoot pics,<BR>&gt;it looks like Kenji is using a weapon.<BR><BR>Just out of curiosity, which of the people in those pictures do you <BR>think is me?<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;Back to the point, though:&nbsp; another useful skill these SBS vets would<BR>&gt;&gt;have is ice carving -- good for entertaining oneself while wilderness<BR>&gt;&gt;refuelling from asteroids and the like, and finally giving ex-Army<BR>&gt;&gt;characters some minimal role on PC starships.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Of course, they could have also been working in the comfort area of<BR>&gt;military service, you know.<BR><BR>Giving orders like "drop and give me twenty" an all-meaning.<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 01:49:28 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: AHHH! Sailor Moon!<BR><BR>Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Or is this one of those "Americanizations" of a British thing like the<BR>&gt;difference between 'real' Punks and Californian Punks?<BR><BR>Hee hee.&nbsp; Good, good, good.&nbsp; Mighta worked on me once.&nbsp; Ha ha.&nbsp; Not <BR>now, nope.&nbsp; Way too old and sold-out.&nbsp; Yup.&nbsp; No knee-jerk reaction <BR>here.&nbsp; Hee hee hee.<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 01:54:17 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;At the very least, they could revoke your passport. Which would result<BR>&gt;in big problems when you wanted to *leave* said country, or return to<BR>&gt;the US.<BR><BR>And screw your job over nicely in doing so ;(&nbsp; My passport got yanked <BR>last year, which means I can't get to Germany (where the conferences <BR>in my field are) or Japan (where the scholars in my field are) or <BR>China (where the archives are).&nbsp; In fact, I'm reluctant to try going <BR>up to Montreal to drown my woes in a 4 a.m. drink, precisely because <BR>of the return trip and the *US* border twits.<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 01:01:45 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote Democratic<BR><BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; And, whose bright idea was to give him a weapon.&nbsp; In the fun shoot<BR>pics,<BR>&gt;&gt;it looks like Kenji is using a weapon.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Just out of curiosity, which of the people in those pictures do you<BR>&gt;think is me?<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; The only guy without a beard that looks kinda crazy.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Of course, they could have also been working in the comfort area of<BR>&gt;&gt;military service, you know.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Giving orders like "drop and give me twenty" an all-meaning.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Yeppers, it does, Kenji.&nbsp; Sorta like the Germans in WWI had comfort<BR>wagons full of women go to the rear area to comfort their soldiers.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Of course gentlemen who were in the Army could have useful skills on a<BR>ship.&nbsp; Security, cargo masters, etc.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 10:36:24 +0200 (EET)<BR>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>On Sat, 16 Dec 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>&gt; At 01:20 AM 12/17/2000 +1300, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;Why does the US have such a problem with gun control? Why does the <BR>&gt; &gt;US so fear its own government? All these things seem quite baffling to me, <BR>&gt; &gt;yet I assume they all make perfect sense if you're on the inside.<BR>&gt; The latter comes from our history.&nbsp; We gained independence by throwing off<BR>&gt; a colonial ruler we found tyranical.&nbsp; The Revolution started when the<BR>&gt; British attempted to seize an armory, and met up with hastily organized<BR>&gt; colonial minutemen.&nbsp; We have a tradition of not trusting our government to<BR>&gt; do everything for us.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; That's why "I'm from the government, I'm here to help you" is a joke.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Hm, I think I could feel sympathy for you. As the EU seems to be going<BR>more and more in the federalist direction, more and more regular citizens<BR>seem to be not liking it. Even if the Prime Minister of Finland is a very<BR>vocal supporter of federal Europe, most Finnish people do not like it.<BR><BR>Douglas, do you feel the same about San Francisco (or California, although<BR>that is bigger) as the States, as government? As SF is as big as Finland,<BR>and EU is about the same as the US, I think I can feel the same as you<BR>towards the big ones. B-/<BR><BR>Perhaps I should come and visit the States someday. It seems that I<BR>haven't fully grasped its diversity, which might explain the distrust for <BR>the government : the place is simply too big. <BR><BR>ObTrav:<BR>Our local gaming store (the only one worth the name in Finland) got BITS<BR>books a couple of weeks ago. They seem to be very useful, I bought 101<BR>Religions and 101 Governments for starters. It is nice to have full<BR>service stores, and friends who know people running them...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>+++++++++[&gt;+++++++++&lt;-]&gt;-.&lt;+++++[&gt;+++&lt;-]++&gt;++.&lt;++[&gt;++++&lt;-]+&gt;+.&lt;++[&gt;----<BR>&lt;-]&gt;-.&gt;+++[&gt;++++++++++&lt;-]++&gt;++pare@iki.fi&lt;+[&gt;++++&lt;-]&gt;+.-&gt;+[&gt;++++[&lt;&lt;---&gt;<BR>&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;.&gt;&gt;+++++++[&lt;++++++++++&gt;-]++++[&lt;+++++&gt;-]&lt;-.&gt;[-]&gt;+++[&gt;++[&lt;&lt;&lt;----&gt;&gt;<BR>&lt;&gt;&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;&lt;.+.&gt;[-]++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;.++.[-]&gt;[-]++++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;++.&gt;&gt;++[&gt;++[&gt;-&lt;-]&lt;--]<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3407<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Sunday, December 17 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3408<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Relativity &amp; FTL<BR>Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>RE: AHHH! Sailor Moon! <BR>Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR>GT:GF -- RTG Modules for Grav Vehicles<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>RE: TEDs<BR>RE: AHHH! Sailor Moon!<BR>Re: Volker, e-mail me would ya...<BR>Re: Really open question...<BR>Re: (5) Part One: Revisiting the Traveller Adventure<BR>Finnish and American RPGs<BR>RE: TEDs<BR>Re: Finnish and American RPGs<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 11:01:19 +0200 (EET)<BR>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>(I should quit conversating about this. This is my last post on the<BR>subject. Really. I mean it.)<BR><BR>On Sat, 16 Dec 2000, Legate Legion wrote:<BR>&gt; From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt;<BR>&gt; &lt;&lt; Why does the US persist in clinging to it hugely inefficent insurance<BR>&gt; model of health care? Why does the US allow so many blatantly "silly" law<BR>&gt; suits? Why does the US have such a problem with gun control? Why does the<BR>&gt; US so fear its own government? All these things seem quite baffling to me,<BR>&gt; yet I assume they all make perfect sense if you're on the inside. &gt;&gt;<BR><BR>All questions I want to ask, too. B-)<BR><BR>Some rebuttals follow...<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Because it works, no matter what happens, Americans have some of the<BR>&gt; best medical care anywhere.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Please define 'the best'. Or, perhaps the word 'some' means that it is<BR>right for just the rich to get the best medical care, and the poor not?<BR><BR>&gt; Because we like to amuse you people in other<BR>&gt; countries, that &amp; we have so many silly laws forced upon us by our own<BR>&gt; government.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Why don't you change the government or tell it that you might want to<BR>change the laws, if they are silly?<BR><BR>&gt; Ask Jesse about that, we have no problem inoling guns, we<BR>&gt; need them to protect us from Canada.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Some way I think the British went too far with their gun control.<BR>Finland has relatively many guns, I think almost as much as the States,<BR>but not very many shooting incidents, although these have been increasing<BR>as of late (we prefer to knife each other while drunk...)<BR>We have gun control, not everybody can get a permit for guns and must have<BR>a acceptable reason, like belonging to a gun or hunting club.<BR><BR>Of course, criminals can get illegal guns, but as the police do not<BR>usually use guns very much, they do not have the need for them. Of course,<BR>and sadly, this is changing, too. B-(<BR><BR>&gt; Everyone fears their own government,<BR>&gt; but in the US you are able to voice that fear.&nbsp; IIRC, in the UK &amp; Brittish<BR>&gt; Commonwealth it is illegal to fear your government, is it not?<BR><BR>Of course everyone fears the government. The fear is just not very<BR>justified in smaller countries, as five million people is a bit less than<BR>some 250 million.<BR><BR>You know the six-degree theorem? I think that almost everybody in Finland<BR>is at most three jumps from me. I can't fear the government very much if<BR>almost everybody in it is a friend (or acquintace, at least) of a friend<BR>of mine... <BR><BR>Situation is very different in the US, I think.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>+++++++++[&gt;+++++++++&lt;-]&gt;-.&lt;+++++[&gt;+++&lt;-]++&gt;++.&lt;++[&gt;++++&lt;-]+&gt;+.&lt;++[&gt;----<BR>&lt;-]&gt;-.&gt;+++[&gt;++++++++++&lt;-]++&gt;++pare@iki.fi&lt;+[&gt;++++&lt;-]&gt;+.-&gt;+[&gt;++++[&lt;&lt;---&gt;<BR>&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;.&gt;&gt;+++++++[&lt;++++++++++&gt;-]++++[&lt;+++++&gt;-]&lt;-.&gt;[-]&gt;+++[&gt;++[&lt;&lt;&lt;----&gt;&gt;<BR>&lt;&gt;&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;&lt;.+.&gt;[-]++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;.++.[-]&gt;[-]++++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;++.&gt;&gt;++[&gt;++[&gt;-&lt;-]&lt;--]<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 11:04:12 +0200 (EET)<BR>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity &amp; FTL<BR><BR>On Sat, 16 Dec 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; &gt; Example:&nbsp;&nbsp; e^(i*pi) = -1<BR>&gt; &gt; Not very intuitive, but true all the same.<BR>&gt; I prefer:<BR>&gt; e^(-pi/2) = i^i<BR>&gt; *much* stranger. :-)<BR><BR>I prefer <BR><BR>e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0<BR><BR>All the important numbers of mathematics in the same equation. B-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>+++++++++[&gt;+++++++++&lt;-]&gt;-.&lt;+++++[&gt;+++&lt;-]++&gt;++.&lt;++[&gt;++++&lt;-]+&gt;+.&lt;++[&gt;----<BR>&lt;-]&gt;-.&gt;+++[&gt;++++++++++&lt;-]++&gt;++pare@iki.fi&lt;+[&gt;++++&lt;-]&gt;+.-&gt;+[&gt;++++[&lt;&lt;---&gt;<BR>&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;.&gt;&gt;+++++++[&lt;++++++++++&gt;-]++++[&lt;+++++&gt;-]&lt;-.&gt;[-]&gt;+++[&gt;++[&lt;&lt;&lt;----&gt;&gt;<BR>&lt;&gt;&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;&lt;.+.&gt;[-]++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;.++.[-]&gt;[-]++++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;++.&gt;&gt;++[&gt;++[&gt;-&lt;-]&lt;--]<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 13:48:16 +0400<BR>From: "Andrew Long" &lt;dyrnwynn@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 20:53:47<BR>&gt; From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Mu'ad-dib is Fremen for sh*thead.<BR>&gt; - --<BR>&gt;<BR>Actually, I think Mu'ad-dib was the Fremen word for a small mouse-like<BR>creature (the kangaroo mouse?)...<BR><BR>(or was that a trawl?)<BR><BR>Andy<BR><BR>- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>- ----<BR>Andrew Long Email Dyrnwynn@HotMail.com<BR>c/o EPMTS Phone +971 (2) 681 3100 xtn 2226 (Office)<BR>PO Box 46426 +971 (2) 681 3806 (Fax)<BR>Abu Dhabi +971 (50) 661 0254 (Mobile)<BR>United Arab Emirates<BR>- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>- ----<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 02:58:03 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>From: Mikko V. I. Parviainen &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt;(I should quit conversating about this. This is my last post on the<BR>&gt;subject. Really. I mean it.)<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Right, comming from the Finnish Patriot who seems to hate America.&nbsp; Just<BR>one question, Mikko, if America sucks so badly, then why do you play<BR>Traveller, an American game, are there not some Finnish RPGs out there for<BR>you to play?<BR><BR>&gt;On Sat, 16 Dec 2000, Legate Legion wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &lt;&lt; Why does the US persist in clinging to it hugely inefficent insurance<BR>&gt;&gt; model of health care? Why does the US allow so many blatantly "silly" law<BR>&gt;&gt; suits? Why does the US have such a problem with gun control? Why does the<BR>&gt;&gt; US so fear its own government? All these things seem quite baffling to<BR>me,<BR>&gt;&gt; yet I assume they all make perfect sense if you're on the inside. &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;All questions I want to ask, too. B-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Some rebuttals follow...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Because it works, no matter what happens, Americans have some of the<BR>&gt;&gt; best medical care anywhere.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Please define 'the best'. Or, perhaps the word 'some' means that it is<BR>&gt;right for just the rich to get the best medical care, and the poor not?<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Actually, the poor get the same amount of medical the rich do.&nbsp; Now, if<BR>you count the best medical care as in a private room, then yes the rich get<BR>better care than the poor, but I have not heard anything about this in the<BR>media, of course I do not have the Finnish Media watching out for me.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Because we like to amuse you people in other<BR>&gt;&gt; countries, that &amp; we have so many silly laws forced upon us by our own<BR>&gt;&gt; government.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Why don't you change the government or tell it that you might want to<BR>&gt;change the laws, if they are silly?<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; We like silly laws.&nbsp; And, we did change the government.&nbsp; We went from a<BR>Monachry&lt;sp&gt; to a Republic, isn't that good enough for you?&nbsp; Geez, next<BR>thing you will be telling me that Bush is the President.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Actually, our government has changed quite a bit, it is more of a Civil<BR>Service Bureaucracy (Government 8) than a Representative Democracy<BR>(Government 4) any more.&nbsp; Of course the great thing is that one law says one<BR>thing &amp; another law says another, so really only the important stuff is<BR>covered.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Ask Jesse about that, we have no problem inoling guns, we<BR>&gt;&gt; need them to protect us from Canada.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Some way I think the British went too far with their gun control.<BR>&gt;Finland has relatively many guns, I think almost as much as the States,<BR>&gt;but not very many shooting incidents, although these have been increasing<BR>&gt;as of late (we prefer to knife each other while drunk...)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; So do you have knife control in Finland?&nbsp; Personally, I would not let<BR>any of you Finns near anything that can be used as weapon considering how<BR>much you people drink.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; The Brits went as far as they needed or else the Queen &amp; her inbred<BR>brats would be dead right now.<BR><BR>&gt;We have gun control, not everybody can get a permit for guns and must have<BR>&gt;a acceptable reason, like belonging to a gun or hunting club.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Hell, all you have to do is show that you are not insane or a criminal &amp;<BR>you can get a gun here in the state.&nbsp; Of course the best gun control is<BR>being able to hit your target.<BR><BR>&gt;Of course, criminals can get illegal guns, but as the police do not<BR>&gt;usually use guns very much, they do not have the need for them. Of course,<BR>&gt;and sadly, this is changing, too. B-(<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Mostly because of the French.&nbsp; You can blame anything on the French as<BR>they are the root of all that is evil &amp; vile.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; ObTrav:&nbsp; IMTU, the Zhodani are French.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Everyone fears their own government,<BR>&gt;&gt; but in the US you are able to voice that fear.&nbsp; IIRC, in the UK &amp;<BR>Brittish<BR>&gt;&gt; Commonwealth it is illegal to fear your government, is it not?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Of course everyone fears the government. The fear is just not very<BR>&gt;justified in smaller countries, as five million people is a bit less than<BR>&gt;some 250 million.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; It is about 260 million now, I think.&nbsp; But, then again, I fear your<BR>government as well.<BR><BR>&gt;You know the six-degree theorem? I think that almost everybody in Finland<BR>&gt;is at most three jumps from me. I can't fear the government very much if<BR>&gt;almost everybody in it is a friend (or acquintace, at least) of a friend<BR>&gt;of mine...<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Sounds a bit like the hills of some states in the US.&nbsp; *weg*&nbsp; (Yes, this<BR>is an insest joke here.&nbsp; I wonder how big your gene pool is really if there<BR>is only three degrees of seperation.)<BR><BR>&gt;Situation is very different in the US, I think.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Very, I don't know the guy that lives next door to me as well as I know<BR>you, or Jesse, or Doug.<BR><BR>&gt;+++++++++[&gt;+++++++++&lt;-]&gt;-.&lt;+++++[&gt;+++&lt;-]++&gt;++.&lt;++[&gt;++++&lt;-]+&gt;+.&lt;++[&gt;----<BR>&gt;&lt;-]&gt;-.&gt;+++[&gt;++++++++++&lt;-]++&gt;++pare@iki.fi&lt;+[&gt;++++&lt;-]&gt;+.-&gt;+[&gt;++++[&lt;&lt;---&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;.&gt;&gt;+++++++[&lt;++++++++++&gt;-]++++[&lt;+++++&gt;-]&lt;-.&gt;[-]&gt;+++[&gt;++[&lt;&lt;&lt;----&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;&gt;&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;&lt;.+.&gt;[-]++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;.++.[-]&gt;[-]++++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;++.&gt;&gt;++[&gt;++[&gt;-&lt;-]&lt;--]<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; One question about your sig, is this Finnish?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 10:03:25 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: AHHH! Sailor Moon! <BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; At 07:56 PM 12/15/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;Tuxedo Kamen ... Penguin Boy<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;It can't be a coincidence.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Nah.. if I had had cute girls like that hanging all over me <BR>&gt; in high school,<BR>&gt; I wouldn't have been such a stand-offish jerk.&nbsp; I would have been a<BR>&gt; panting, drooling jerk instead.&nbsp; As it was, I was an artistic <BR>&gt; jerk, and a Mod.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; (For our younger readers: Mods are what British Goths were <BR>&gt; before vampires<BR>&gt; were cool.&nbsp; We also were a bit more active than your standard <BR>&gt; Goth.&nbsp; Thanks<BR>&gt; to The Who, many American teens in NorCal started wearing Army surplus<BR>&gt; ponchos and riding scooters.)<BR>&gt; -- <BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>&lt;G&gt; Did you go down to the south coast and fight the Rockers, Doug?<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 02:14:39 -0800<BR>From: "Trent Smith" &lt;trentfs@ix.netcom.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Are you talking about the Frank Herbert sequels?&nbsp; Are are you talking<BR>about<BR>&gt;the new trilogy written by Frank's son, Brian, and Kevin J. Anderson?<BR>&gt;<BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Given that it was written at the same time, you might like the sequels (at<BR>least<BR>&gt;books 2 and 3 anyway) as much as you liked the first one.<BR>&gt;<BR>I'm talking about the Frank Herbert sequels.&nbsp; I've known several people who<BR>read 'Dune' and loved it so much that they immediately started reading the<BR>sequels.&nbsp; In my experience, these people invariably express great<BR>disappointment.&nbsp; That said, I've got the books sitting on my shelf, and<BR>fully intend to read them, it's just that with that baggage behind them they<BR>haven't been a priority.&nbsp; That said, I was just tonight looking for a new<BR>book to start and came really close to picking 'Dune Messiah.'&nbsp; The only<BR>reason I didn't was because I've only read 19 books so far this year and<BR>wanted to pick something I knew for sure I'd be able to finish before<BR>year-end.*<BR><BR>&gt; Now, above, if you were talking about the Brian Herber/Kevin J. Anderson<BR>&gt;prequels, I haven't read those yet.&nbsp; I heard that you should read all of<BR>the<BR>&gt;original series first because there are spoilers in the prequels (and the<BR>third<BR>&gt;prequel hasn't been published yet anyway).<BR><BR>I doubt I'll ever read those.&nbsp; While Brian Herbert's name lends a little bit<BR>of legitimacy, the Kevin Anderson connection seems to confirm my suspicion<BR>that these are nothing more than cheap trademark exploitation, the same as<BR>the 'fanfic' hackwork he built his career on.&nbsp; There's enough legitimately<BR>good SF out there that I feel no obligation to waste my time on the likes of<BR>this.<BR><BR>&gt; If I had finished the book before hand, I believe I would have liked the<BR>show<BR>&gt;less--but I am looking forward to the sequel series next year (it's<BR>supposed to<BR>&gt;combine the stories from books 2 and 3).<BR><BR>Since it won't be competeing with a pre-formed mental image of the Lynch<BR>movie, I suspect I'd like this one better.&nbsp; It seems this would've been a<BR>more logical place to start, actually...<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; *The others are: 'The Foundation Trilogy,'<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I want to read this set.&nbsp; I've heard a lot about it.<BR>&gt;<BR>The original 3 Foundation novels (haven't read the later add-ons) are<BR>amazing.&nbsp; I'd never been too crazy about Asimov ("Robot" stories, et al.)<BR>before reading this, but now I understand fully why he was considered the<BR>Grand Master.&nbsp; You're in for a major treat!<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Stranger in a Strange Land,'<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Can you tell me about this one?&nbsp; I've heard it mentioned many times<BR>before,<BR>&gt;and I know it is supposed to be one of the pillars of science fiction<BR>history--<BR>&gt;but I really don't know what it is about.<BR><BR>Others have already said a bit about this, so I'll add only this: it isn't<BR>so much a science-fiction book by the strict definition of the term (there's<BR>little-to-no actual science involved), but more a satirical<BR>comedy-of-manners in which Robert Heinlein, working in best Mark Twain mode,<BR>takes aim at the two biggest sacred cows in American society: Sex and<BR>Religion.&nbsp; This is a book that variously makes you laugh, makes you angry,<BR>and, most importantly, makes you think and ask questions.&nbsp; [Important Aside:<BR>while you were away we had a couple of very big and very nasty flame-wars<BR>about whether or not the government in Heinlein's book 'Starship Troopers'<BR>is fascist.&nbsp; Please don't accidentally say anything to get that one started<BR>up again!]<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; 'The Left Hand of Darkness'<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Don't know this one either...can you enlighten me to this one?<BR>&gt;<BR>Early contact with a Minor Human Race (to use Trav-equivalent terminology)<BR>with a radically different notion of gender (neuter most of the time,<BR>periodically taking both roles).&nbsp; Before reading this, I feared it was going<BR>to be a dry feminist-politic manifesto but, to my pleasant surprise, it has<BR>engaging characters, a very good story, and the scientific extrapolations<BR>(albeit in areas of sociology, psychology, and 'gender studies' rather than<BR>the typical "hard" sciences) are both extensive and reasoned.&nbsp; Also, Ursula<BR>LeGuin writes in a very literate and "modern" (without being pretentious or<BR>overbearing) style which was (and still is) quite rare in SF -- this is the<BR>best combination of "good writing" and "good SF" I've ever come across.<BR><BR>Trent<BR><BR>*It's always a personal goal to read at least 20 books a year.&nbsp; Most years<BR>it's not a problem; this year I'm struggling.&nbsp; While some of you book-a-day<BR>types might scoff at such a paltry number, keep in mind that 1) I know lots<BR>of people who read even less, and 2) a lot of these books were pretty dense<BR>and/or long (authors like Dostoyevsky, Melville, and Marcel Proust spring to<BR>mind).&nbsp; I may not be an English major any more, but that doesn't mean I have<BR>to give up all ambition!<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 05:48:26 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: Dalton Spence &lt;dalton.spence@hwcn.org&gt;<BR>Subject: GT:GF -- RTG Modules for Grav Vehicles<BR><BR>One of the main complaints I've heard recently about the Modular<BR>Grav Vehicle construction rules in GT: Ground Forces is the high<BR>cost and short life of Nuclear Power Unit (NPU) modules. While a<BR>military operation might be willing to replace the entire power<BR>plant of a small vehicle every year or two, the owners of civilian<BR>grav-vehicles would prefer a less costly alternative. Radio-Thermal<BR>Generators (RTGs), the low-tech version of the NPU, could provide a<BR>solution to this problem. All RTG modules weigh 250 lbs. and cost<BR>KCr12.5 per VSP and last 14 years before replacement. As you can see<BR>from the table below, RTGs are more cost/energy efficient than NPUs<BR>at all tech levels. (KWy = Kilowatt-year.)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; | Radio-Thermal Generator&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; Nuclear Power Unit<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; GTL |Power x Life = Energy&nbsp; Cost&nbsp; | Power x Life = Energy&nbsp; Cost<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; | (KW)&nbsp;&nbsp; (yr)&nbsp;&nbsp; (KWy) (Cr/KWy)|&nbsp; (KW)&nbsp;&nbsp; (yr)&nbsp;&nbsp; (KWy) (Cr/KWy)<BR>Core&nbsp;&nbsp; 9 |&nbsp; 35&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 14&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 490&nbsp;&nbsp; 25.51 |&nbsp; 102.5&nbsp; &nbsp; 1&nbsp; &nbsp; 102.5&nbsp; 487.80<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 10 | 100&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 14&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1400&nbsp; &nbsp; 8.93 |&nbsp;&nbsp; 205&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 410&nbsp; 121.95<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 11 | 225&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 14&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 3150&nbsp; &nbsp; 3.97 |&nbsp;&nbsp; 580&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2900&nbsp;&nbsp; 17.24<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 12+| 225&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 14&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 3150&nbsp; &nbsp; 3.97 |&nbsp; 1205&nbsp; &nbsp; 10&nbsp; &nbsp; 12050&nbsp; &nbsp; 4.15<BR>Power&nbsp; 9 |&nbsp; 50&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 14&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 700&nbsp;&nbsp; 17.85 |&nbsp;&nbsp; 125&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 125&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 400<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 10 | 125&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 14&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1750&nbsp; &nbsp; 7.14 |&nbsp;&nbsp; 250&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 500&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 100<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 11 | 250&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 14&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 3500&nbsp; &nbsp; 3.57 |&nbsp;&nbsp; 625&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1325&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 16<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 12+| 250&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 14&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 3500&nbsp; &nbsp; 3.57 |&nbsp; 1250&nbsp; &nbsp; 10&nbsp; &nbsp; 12500&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 4<BR><BR>The only benefit to using NPUs is their energy density; an RTG of an<BR>equivalent power rating may weigh from 2 to 5 times as much.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; @==================================================@<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | Dalton S. Spence, B.Sc. &lt;dalton.spence@hwcn.org&gt; |<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | Home Page: http://www.hwcn.org/~ag775/home.html&nbsp; |<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Family Motto: Virtute Acquiritur Honos&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; "Trade is the lifeblood of the Imperium."&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Cleon I, First Emperor of the Third Imperium&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | Margaret Thatcher is the medium-sized(censored); |<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; your mother was seen in the Super Bowl. FNORD!&nbsp; |<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; @==================================================@<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 00:18:07 +1300<BR>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>On 16 Dec 00, at 14:34, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; On 12/17/00 at 01:20 AM,&nbsp; "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance"<BR>&gt; &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Yes, but why do they exist at all?&nbsp; Is there a logical motivation to<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; having a governmental body regulate names?<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;Take a look at Mikko Parviainen's post of 10 Dec and you'll see one<BR>&gt; &gt;of the&nbsp; main reasons (preserving local culture against a perceived<BR>&gt; &gt;threat from&nbsp; being overwhelmed).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; That makes, marginal, sense, but I don't see it as a government<BR>&gt; function.&nbsp; As I wrote Mikko, we'll just have to take a pass on this<BR>&gt; one, I'm afraid.<BR><BR>Because preserving local culture is one of the governments more important <BR>jobs. To me, the naming laws do seem an "over the top" response, but I <BR>can very well see the reasoning behind them.<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Many apparently obvious things in one culture seem quite strange<BR>&gt; &gt; from an other.<BR><BR>&gt; A point we can apply to Traveller...to get back on topic. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>A point that is vital to Traveller and a point that Traveller has tended to do <BR>rather well.<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;Why does the US persist in clinging to it hugely inefficient<BR>&gt; &gt;insurance model of health care?&nbsp; Why does the US allow so many<BR>&gt; &gt;blatantly "silly" law suits?&nbsp; Why does the US have such a problem<BR>&gt; &gt;with gun control?&nbsp; Why does the US so fear its own government?&nbsp; All<BR>&gt; &gt;these things seem quite baffling to me, yet I assume they all make<BR>&gt; &gt;perfect sense if you're on the inside.<BR><BR>&gt; &lt;g&gt;&nbsp; Okay, in brief, and IMO...<BR><BR>Okay, I didn't make my point well (I did already know the why, the why just <BR>seems strange). Here in NZ one of the most popular Members of <BR>Parliament is also a transsexual, but this passes without note. This makes <BR>perfect sense in our frame of reference, but I doubt it would elsewhere. The <BR>Finn's (et al) laws on naming make perfect sense when placed within their <BR>frame of reference. The US has actively enshrined in its constitution the <BR>potential for armed insurrection. This makes perfect sense when placed in <BR>the historical US frame of reference, but to me with a NZ frame of reference <BR>it seems downright silly. Everything is relative to your frame of reference.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:39:12 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: TEDs<BR><BR>&gt; From: "Chris Seamans" <BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; The funny part is that I don't think that the RCES is ever presented as<BR>&gt; being unambiguously heroic. It's possible to play them as unambiguously<BR>&gt; heroic, I imagine, but that never seemed to be what Dave Nilsen was<BR>&gt; driving at. <BR><BR>Of course the RC had internal contradictions written into it. <BR>Unfortunately these weren't particularly developed, and the scenarios<BR>published tended to be oriented to good little soldiers in the cause, if<BR>freelance mercenary ones in many cases.&nbsp; <BR><BR>&gt; Aubane and Oriflamme were roughly equal in power, but due to the nature<BR>&gt; of the balance, that could all change in a moment. There was also a<BR>&gt; growing resistance movement on Oriflamme, and growing tensions between<BR>&gt; Aubane and its neighbors. <BR><BR>The trailing fringe of the RC was interesting.&nbsp; It could well have<BR>supported some further development.&nbsp; <BR><BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; I firmly believe that if the line had continued, things would have<BR>&gt; gotten a lot more interesting than the way it sits now, with only a<BR>&gt; handful of supplements. <BR>......<BR>&gt; However, if you don't give away everything before the line dies, then the<BR>&gt; setting becomes frozen in time forever at the state it was in at the<BR>&gt; time. As a result, TNE will always be Star Vikings and TEDs. <BR><BR>It is a shame that pretty much all the scenarios are "smash and grabs".&nbsp; A<BR>bit more talk, trade and intrigue might have been nice.<BR><BR>It might be interesting to work out Far Trader trade numbers for a TNE<BR>sector.&nbsp; Presumably there wouldn't be enough ships to support the potential<BR>trade volumes.<BR><BR>An interesting variant setting might be one where the 12 Dawn League ships<BR>aren't sent out on a suicide mission, and instead are used in a sensible<BR>manner, with only some of them being lost.&nbsp; With this *manipulation*<BR>removed, the League doesn't reorganise itself on quite such an aggressive<BR>basis, and expands more slowly.<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 21:22:32 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: AHHH! Sailor Moon!<BR><BR>&gt; From: various people - I've lost track.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;They're also seperated by about fifteen years of time, Mods being<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;around in the late sixties - early seventies, having grown out of the<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;teddy-boy movement of the late fifties - early sixties, and basically<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;metamorphizing into the New Romantic movement of the late seventies<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;-early eighties.<BR><BR>The other successor trend was uglier: some skinhead currents came out of it<BR>too.&nbsp; Short hair, union jacks, and violence...<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;The revival I was part of in the early eighties was set off by two<BR>&gt; &gt;things: The Who's "last" tour, and Quadrophrenia in the midnight<BR>&gt; &gt;move circut.&nbsp; We all did our best to mimic the look of the film,<BR>&gt; &gt;and listened to all the "right" music.&nbsp; It did broaden my musical<BR>&gt; &gt;horizons a great deal.<BR><BR>There were "Mods" here in the early eighties.&nbsp; I was about as far away from<BR>them as I could get without leaving town.&nbsp; But on the other hand I was<BR>probably a much bigger Who fan than any of them, as they weren't into the<BR>"right" music.&nbsp; I always was a weirdo, but I also engaged in a bit of<BR>posturing to exaggerate it.&nbsp; Being into a band everyone else ignored was<BR>typical enough.<BR><BR>Do nerds constitute a subculture?&nbsp; I suppose they do.&nbsp; But membership isn't<BR>voluntary.<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 12:50:58 +0100<BR>From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Volker, e-mail me would ya...<BR><BR>At 23:49 16.12.00 -0600, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;I need your e-mail address.<BR><BR><BR>Oh, thats easy ;-):<BR><BR>volker@greimann.de<BR><BR>BTW: The new stuff is great, too. I like it a lot.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:03:44 +0000<BR>From: David Scott &lt;d.scott@ic.ac.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Really open question...<BR><BR>&gt;What do people think of James White's Sector General series?&nbsp; Both as<BR>&gt;random reads and as ideas for color in a Traveller universe?<BR><BR>I've just finished re-reading the whole set.Very entertaining.Yes <BR>good for colour, if you like medical dramas.<BR><BR>&gt;Should I expend the $/effort to try to collect the whole set?&nbsp; If so, where<BR>&gt;should I look (other than Amazon, which is not always the best price, from<BR>&gt;what I understand)?<BR><BR>Here in the UK I picked up the whole set for 2 from second hand shops:-)<BR>- -- <BR>David<BR><BR>David@snail.dircon.co.uk<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 07:19:35 -0600<BR>From: David Smart &lt;dsmart@imagin.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: (5) Part One: Revisiting the Traveller Adventure<BR><BR>I just got caught up on all my TML backlog.<BR><BR>DAMN, Doug!<BR><BR>Now _I_ want to run in your campaign.<BR><BR>&lt;sigh&gt; Too bad I'm in Texas.<BR><BR>What an awesome, awesome write-up!<BR><BR><BR>And a _big_ thank you to Rob, our list mom,<BR>for making posts like these available across<BR>the world.<BR><BR>Gawd, I love this list!<BR><BR>David<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 15:33:02 +0200 (EET)<BR>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;<BR>Subject: Finnish and American RPGs<BR><BR>(Legate Legion, I said that I won't continue that conversation, so I will<BR>not. Thank you. Just this little bit. B-)<BR><BR>I just have to play American scifi-RPGs, because there are no others<BR>available. The few Finnish games are either translations or just fantasy<BR>games. There are some other games (one or two Swedish ones, I don't<BR>remember what they are called) but they are hard to obtain here. (It would<BR>require ordering them by phone or email and such, very hard, you see. B-)<BR>Almost every in-print, and some OOP, American RPG can be found just by<BR>walking into the Fantasiapelit store. <BR><BR>&lt;plug&gt;<BR>(Yes, I know, Columbia Games is Canadian and not American, I apologise.)<BR><BR>I know that Columbia Games is planning to publish a new version of<BR>their old scifi RPG, High Colonies. I have no knowledge of dates or almost<BR>anything else, just that it probably _won't_ use the D20 system, and it<BR>will most likely be worth checking out.<BR><BR>I might think that some people here are interested. <BR>Just read the game, when and if it does come out. B-)<BR><BR>This is just for the information that we do make RPGs here in Finland. Not<BR>very many, but some...<BR><BR>WWW: http://www.burgergames.com/hcol.htm<BR>&lt;/plug&gt;<BR><BR>- -- <BR>+++++++++[&gt;+++++++++&lt;-]&gt;-.&lt;+++++[&gt;+++&lt;-]++&gt;++.&lt;++[&gt;++++&lt;-]+&gt;+.&lt;++[&gt;----<BR>&lt;-]&gt;-.&gt;+++[&gt;++++++++++&lt;-]++&gt;++pare@iki.fi&lt;+[&gt;++++&lt;-]&gt;+.-&gt;+[&gt;++++[&lt;&lt;---&gt;<BR>&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;.&gt;&gt;+++++++[&lt;++++++++++&gt;-]++++[&lt;+++++&gt;-]&lt;-.&gt;[-]&gt;+++[&gt;++[&lt;&lt;&lt;----&gt;&gt;<BR>&lt;&gt;&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;&lt;.+.&gt;[-]++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;.++.[-]&gt;[-]++++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;++.&gt;&gt;++[&gt;++[&gt;-&lt;-]&lt;--]<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 05:40:10 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: TEDs<BR><BR>Right before the line died, there were hints of war between the RC and<BR>the Empire of Solee, which, with hundreds of millions of inhabitants, a<BR>handful of really large starship (cruiser size), and high-tech military<BR>equipment, would have made a great series of scenarios for miniatures.<BR><BR>Also, I always had the feeling the RC was going to go through a civil<BR>war eventually, with the Oriflamme faction on one side and the Aubaine<BR>faction on the other.&nbsp; That, too, would have made for some interesting<BR>gaming possibilities.<BR><BR><BR>=====<BR>Gerry Harris<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.<BR>http://shopping.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 06:55:31 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Finnish and American RPGs<BR><BR>From: Mikko V. I. Parviainen &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&gt;(Legate Legion, I said that I won't continue that conversation, so I will<BR>&gt;not. Thank you. Just this little bit. B-)<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; That is mighty Finnish of you.<BR><BR>&gt;I just have to play American scifi-RPGs, because there are no others<BR>&gt;available. The few Finnish games are either translations or just fantasy<BR>&gt;games. There are some other games (one or two Swedish ones, I don't<BR>&gt;remember what they are called) but they are hard to obtain here. (It would<BR>&gt;require ordering them by phone or email and such, very hard, you see. B-)<BR>&gt;Almost every in-print, and some OOP, American RPG can be found just by<BR>&gt;walking into the Fantasiapelit store.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Then don't bitch about how American they are.&nbsp; Its like the French<BR>bitching about how American movies made in America are.&nbsp; Look, face it,<BR>American Culture Rules.&nbsp; Not because it is the best, but because it is so<BR>flexable.&nbsp; Everyone has a say in it.&nbsp; If you are African, you can find<BR>elements of African Culture here, if you are Finish, you can find Finish<BR>Culture here, but the great thing is that it is a melange of them.&nbsp; Look at<BR>Bar-B-Que.&nbsp; That is an All American Food, more than the Hot Dog or<BR>Hamburger.&nbsp; It is sweet or tart, mild or hot.&nbsp; It is what you make of it,<BR>like American Culture.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3408<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yh04.mx.aol.com (rly-yh04.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.36]) by air-yh04.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Sun, 17 Dec 2000 08:55:21 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yh04.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Sun, 17 Dec 2000 08:54:56 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id IAA46405;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Sun, 17 Dec 2000 08:54:02 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Sun, 17 Dec 2000 08:53:50 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id IAA46364<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Sun, 17 Dec 2000 08:53:50 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 08:53:50 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012171353.IAA46364@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3408<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Sunday, December 17 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3409<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>RE: AHHH! Sailor Moon!<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Really open question...<BR>Re: CLIMAX!&nbsp; Conclusion to the Traveller Adventure<BR>Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote Democratic<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>RE: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>RE: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting<BR>Re: Rob Miracle - List Manager<BR>Re: CLIMAX!&nbsp; Conclusion to the Traveller Adventure<BR>Re: Really open question...<BR>RE: AHHH! Sailor Moon!<BR>Re: Finnish and American RPGs<BR>RE: AHHH! Sailor Moon!<BR>Re: Finnish and American RPGs<BR>Re: Finnish and American RPGs<BR>MHD/Gas Turbines (Re: GT:GF -- RTG Modules for Grav Vehicles)<BR>Re: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology<BR>Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR>Re: CLIMAX!&nbsp; Conclusion to the Traveller Adventure<BR>Re: CLIMAX!&nbsp; Conclusion to the Traveller Adventure<BR>Re: (5) Part One: Revisiting the Traveller Adventure<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 08:56:20 -0500<BR>From: Christopher Thrash &lt;thrash@io.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: AHHH! Sailor Moon!<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 21:24:08<BR>&gt;From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: RE: AHHH! Sailor Moon!<BR><BR>&gt;Mod died with Keith Moon.<BR><BR>Keith Moon, Sailor Moon -- what's the connection?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 05:11:27 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;At the very least, they could revoke your passport. Which would result<BR>&gt;&gt;in big problems when you wanted to *leave* said country, or return to<BR>&gt;&gt;the US.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; And screw your job over nicely in doing so ;(&nbsp; My passport got yanked <BR>&gt; last year, <BR><BR>Ouch. Who did *you* piss off?<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 05:17:55 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Really open question...<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; From: Leonard Erickson &lt;shadow@krypton.rain.com&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;There are also several stories by white set in the same universe, but<BR>&gt;&gt;without involving Sector General. One deals with a war that results<BR>&gt;&gt;from a botched first contact, and how it is ended.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Are you talking about the one where the idea of Sector General is<BR>&gt; started?<BR><BR>I don't recall the idea starting in it, but it's been quite some time<BR>since I last read that story.<BR><BR>&gt; Where they have the last two warriors fighting it out, but held in<BR>&gt; stasis?<BR><BR>Something like that.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 05:19:50 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: CLIMAX!&nbsp; Conclusion to the Traveller Adventure<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Naw...I wouldn't send an attachment to the list.&nbsp; I'll just post them<BR>&gt; normally in plain text, e-mail format.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Cut-n-paste from the Word doc.<BR><BR>Be careful about doing that. Word uses special non-ascii characters for<BR>right &amp; left single &amp; double quotes, for ellipsis (...) and for some<BR>types of dash. <BR><BR>The presence of those characters causes the list software to convert<BR>the post to Mime quoted printable which means that for folks like me<BR>they come out as =xx where xx is the hex value of the character. <BR><BR>Set up a "generic text printer" in windows, and set it to print to a<BR>file. Then print the document using that printer, and import *that*<BR>file into your message. <BR><BR>&lt;sigh&gt; Life was so much simpler before MS decided that they know what<BR>we want better than we do. :-(<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 05:26:59 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote Democratic<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Legate Legion wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &gt;Back to the point, though:&nbsp; another useful skill these SBS vets would<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;have is ice carving -- good for entertaining oneself while wilderness<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;refuelling from asteroids and the like, and finally giving ex-Army<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;characters some minimal role on PC starships.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Of course, they could have also been working in the comfort area of<BR>&gt;&gt;military service, you know.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Giving orders like "drop and give me twenty" an all-meaning.<BR><BR>The first thing that phrase brings to mind is the last thing Lisa says<BR>in "Weird Science". :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 09:21:21 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Right, comming from the Finnish Patriot who seems to hate America.&nbsp; Just<BR>&gt;one question, Mikko, if America sucks so badly, then why do you play<BR>&gt;Traveller, an American game, are there not some Finnish RPGs out there for<BR>&gt;you to play?<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Actually, the poor get the same amount of medical the rich do.&nbsp; Now, if<BR>&gt;you count the best medical care as in a private room, then yes the rich get<BR>&gt;better care than the poor, but I have not heard anything about this in the<BR>&gt;media, of course I do not have the Finnish Media watching out for me.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; So do you have knife control in Finland?&nbsp; Personally, I would not let<BR>&gt;any of you Finns near anything that can be used as weapon considering how<BR>&gt;much you people drink.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The Brits went as far as they needed or else the Queen &amp; her inbred<BR>&gt;brats would be dead right now.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Mostly because of the French.&nbsp; You can blame anything on the French as<BR>&gt;they are the root of all that is evil &amp; vile.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ObTrav:&nbsp; IMTU, the Zhodani are French.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Then don't bitch about how American they are.&nbsp; Its like the French<BR>&gt;bitching about how American movies made in America are.&nbsp; Look, face it,<BR>&gt;American Culture Rules.&nbsp; Not because it is the best, but because it is so<BR>&gt;flexable.&nbsp; Everyone has a say in it.&nbsp; If you are African, you can find<BR>&gt;elements of African Culture here, if you are Finish, you can find Finish<BR>&gt;Culture here, but the great thing is that it is a melange of them.&nbsp; Look at<BR>&gt;Bar-B-Que.&nbsp; That is an All American Food, more than the Hot Dog or<BR>&gt;Hamburger.&nbsp; It is sweet or tart, mild or hot.&nbsp; It is what you make of it,<BR>&gt;like American Culture.<BR><BR><BR>Wow... I have this strange sensation of recognizing something I <BR>wrote, but DIDN'T.&nbsp; Eerie... I didn't know anyone had made a copy of <BR>the Kenjomatic 3.4 Personality Simulation Engine while I was gone. <BR>(What, you folks weren't getting enough sarcastic, trolling mockery <BR>of 16-year-old yahoos?)&nbsp; Well, in any case, clearly someone *has* <BR>pirated a copy, and turned off the "self-restraint" option too.&nbsp; Woe <BR>to thee, it looks like!<BR><BR>Ya know, this will be great... now I'm going to seem like the nice, <BR>normal one for a change!<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 14:22 +0000 (GMT)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: RE: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;3.0.5.16.20001216213104.23ffac98@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>In the UK, if you are in the military you were (certainly 1980s when I <BR>was) required to request permission to visit certain countries. I did, got <BR>permission... and had a very interesting interview on return which I am <BR>not permitted to talk about :-)<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 07:38:32 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;Wow... I have this strange sensation of recognizing something I<BR>&gt;wrote, but DIDN'T.&nbsp; Eerie... I didn't know anyone had made a copy of<BR>&gt;the Kenjomatic 3.4 Personality Simulation Engine while I was gone.<BR>&gt;(What, you folks weren't getting enough sarcastic, trolling mockery<BR>&gt;of 16-year-old yahoos?)&nbsp; Well, in any case, clearly someone *has*<BR>&gt;pirated a copy, and turned off the "self-restraint" option too.&nbsp; Woe<BR>&gt;to thee, it looks like!<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Kenji, take your damn drug-drug now.&nbsp; That person had been slamming<BR>America &amp; Americans for too long.<BR><BR>&gt;Ya know, this will be great... now I'm going to seem like the nice,<BR>&gt;normal one for a change!<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Yeah, right.&nbsp; In your dreams, Kenji.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Btw, Robert A. Heinlein was not a Fascist, but a Republican.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 08:47:51 -0600<BR>From: Andy Holzrichter &lt;jhereg@southwind.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting<BR><BR>At 02:19 PM 12/14/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>&gt;Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 16:46:49 -0000<BR>&gt;From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>SNIP<BR>&gt; &gt; For starters, what the heck does KB3 mean?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Kill Bloo Three times?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Now here's a dark thought - The death penalty in a&nbsp; fantsy&nbsp; world<BR>&gt;(for someone really bad):<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;1)&nbsp; Execute the prisoner<BR>&gt;2)&nbsp; Resurrect the prisoner<BR>&gt;3)&nbsp; Execute the prisoner a second time<BR>&gt;4)&nbsp; Resurrect the prisoner a second time<BR>&gt;5)&nbsp; Execute the prisoner for a third time<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;(This assumes that the *process* of execution is not plesant&nbsp; for<BR>&gt;the prisoner.)<BR>It also assumes you can resurrect someone without their consent.&nbsp; I believe <BR>the D&amp;D3e specifically says you cannot.&nbsp; The party being resurrected has <BR>the option of refusing the invitation. &lt;g&gt;&nbsp; I would definitely refuse that <BR>invitation.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Andy<BR>- - Copyright  2000 by Andy Holzrichter<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 15:00:12 GMT<BR>From: "John G. Wood" &lt;elvwood@ntlworld.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Rob Miracle - List Manager<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR>&gt; Rob Miracle is a superb list manager.&nbsp; I was thinking the other day about how<BR>&gt; "comfortable" the TML feels.&nbsp; I missed it the two years I was gone.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I've been on other lists, for other games I ran, and some of those power<BR>&gt; hungry, this-is-my-mountain list managers get under your skin more often than<BR>&gt; the list butt-holes do.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Rob funs a fine show.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Applause from this small side of the audience.<BR><BR>[Stands, and joins in rapturously]<BR><BR>John<BR>http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/Traveller/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 15:00:17 GMT<BR>From: "John G. Wood" &lt;elvwood@ntlworld.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: CLIMAX!&nbsp; Conclusion to the Traveller Adventure<BR><BR>Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann wrote:<BR>&gt; WOW, great introduction. I think Ill forward it to my group right away.<BR>&gt; I cant wait to read the next installments.<BR><BR>Agreed - I loved the March Harrier tour Kenneth posted before he left, and <BR>it's good to see he hasn't lost his touch.<BR><BR>Welcome back, Kenneth!<BR><BR>John<BR>http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/Traveller/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 15:00:20 GMT<BR>From: "John G. Wood" &lt;elvwood@ntlworld.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Really open question...<BR><BR>Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt; asked,<BR>&gt; What do people think of James White's Sector General series?&nbsp; Both as<BR>&gt; random reads and as ideas for color in a Traveller universe?<BR><BR>They are definitely light reading, and a *lot* of fun - my wife and I both <BR>enjoy them when we don't want to stretch our brains too much (which happens <BR>more frequently now that we have a baby). One annoying feature is that <BR>certain 1950's attitudes to women make their way into the rules of the <BR>universe in early novels and the author is stuck with them for the rest of <BR>the series. The aliens are neat, though, and the stories well-written. <BR>Certain explanatory passages get repeated in almost every book, but these are <BR>easily skipped.<BR><BR>It's a series of two halves, Jeff. The six books up to Star Healer are all <BR>first contact scenarios from Conway's point of view. Each of the others <BR>focuses on a different person, and while there is a first contact somewhere <BR>in every book it takes a back seat to the problems of the star. Mostly this <BR>works well but occasionally non-featured players do uncharacteristically <BR>stupid things in order to make the star look good.<BR><BR>There's a good overview/review by Dave Langford on the net somewhere, <BR>published in Odyssey 1; I can't connect right now but search for "Dave <BR>Langford" near "Critical Mass" near Odyssey, or ask me to send it to you.<BR><BR>If you speak GURPS, take a look at my partial conversion of the setting at <BR>http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/GURPS/SectorGeneral.html. This also discusses the <BR>way the universe works, which is quite different from Traveller in detail <BR>(and consequences for campaigning) but with a similar "feel".<BR><BR>&gt; Should I expend the $/effort to try to collect the whole set?<BR><BR>It depends - I have done so, but your tastes may differ. Have you tried your <BR>local library? Ours had four or five of the books (which gave me enough <BR>confidence in the series to hunt down the rest).<BR><BR>&gt; If so, where should I look (other than Amazon, which is not always the best<BR>&gt; price, from what I understand)?<BR><BR>My first port of call these days is always http://www.bibliofind.com. I <BR>finally managed to get a copy of "Code Blue Emergency" through them recently, <BR>completing my set - it seems to be the hardest to find, which is a shame <BR>since it's one of my favourites. You can probably find quite a few of the <BR>others going cheap if you don't care too much about condition.<BR><BR>ObTrav: A number of worlds in Trin's Veil are named after characters from the <BR>books (sometimes slightly mangled).<BR><BR>John<BR>http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/Traveller/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 09:52:08 -0600 (CST)<BR>From: Gregory Carl Kettler &lt;gckettle@midway.uchicago.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: AHHH! Sailor Moon!<BR><BR>On Sat, 16 Dec 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>&gt; Group of youth who feel alienated from society, and dress exactly alike to<BR>&gt; express their individuality.&nbsp; Except we had much better music.<BR><BR>ALL youths feel alienated from society and dress exaclty alike to express<BR>their individuality.&nbsp; It's just part of being young.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 11:00:35 -0500<BR>From: "Paul Drye" &lt;p_drye@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Finnish and American RPGs<BR><BR>&gt;I know that Columbia Games is planning to publish a new version of<BR>&gt;their old scifi RPG, High Colonies. I have no knowledge of dates or almost <BR>&gt;anything else<BR><BR>If Columbia Games' past history is any guide, we should be getting it <BR>approximately when we start building *real* High Colonies.<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Paul Drye<BR><BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 16:56:15 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: AHHH! Sailor Moon!<BR><BR>Gregory Carl Kettler wrote:<BR>&gt; On Sat, 16 Dec 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Group of youth who feel alienated from society, and dress exactly<BR>&gt; &gt; alike to express their individuality.&nbsp; Except we had much better<BR>&gt; &gt; music.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ALL youths feel alienated from society and dress exaclty alike to<BR>&gt; express their individuality.&nbsp; It's just part of being young.<BR><BR>That's "youth"?&nbsp; I thought that was being a "gamer"!&nbsp; ;-P<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 17:01 +0000 (GMT)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: Finnish and American RPGs<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;F801o8yfogkJXrRjbDt000005a6@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>I recently picked up a 2nd-hand copy of the original HIGH COLONIES. Looks <BR>quite fun :-)<BR><BR>There is a Swedish-written (in English) general SF game on the Internet <BR>called DEATH OUT OF DARKNESS, written by Krister Sundelin (I think that <BR>was the name). The original intention was to create a system in which <BR>events from the TV show 'Space: Above and Beyond' but it ended up a <BR>near-future generic system instead with no S:AAB references!<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 19:04:27 +0200 (EET)<BR>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Finnish and American RPGs<BR><BR>On Sun, 17 Dec 2000, Paul Drye wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;I know that Columbia Games is planning to publish a new version of<BR>&gt; &gt;their old scifi RPG, High Colonies. I have no knowledge of dates or almost <BR>&gt; &gt;anything else<BR>&gt; If Columbia Games' past history is any guide, we should be getting it <BR>&gt; approximately when we start building *real* High Colonies.<BR><BR>Well, you _could_ buy their current products so that they would have more<BR>money to print new ones. B-)<BR><BR>(And, they have been printing much material for Harn lately, Barbarians,<BR>and Manors come into my mind.)<BR><BR>And I could think that HC comes in a year or something like that, I have<BR>seen some material for it. B-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>+++++++++[&gt;+++++++++&lt;-]&gt;-.&lt;+++++[&gt;+++&lt;-]++&gt;++.&lt;++[&gt;++++&lt;-]+&gt;+.&lt;++[&gt;----<BR>&lt;-]&gt;-.&gt;+++[&gt;++++++++++&lt;-]++&gt;++pare@iki.fi&lt;+[&gt;++++&lt;-]&gt;+.-&gt;+[&gt;++++[&lt;&lt;---&gt;<BR>&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;.&gt;&gt;+++++++[&lt;++++++++++&gt;-]++++[&lt;+++++&gt;-]&lt;-.&gt;[-]&gt;+++[&gt;++[&lt;&lt;&lt;----&gt;&gt;<BR>&lt;&gt;&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;&lt;.+.&gt;[-]++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;.++.[-]&gt;[-]++++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;++.&gt;&gt;++[&gt;++[&gt;-&lt;-]&lt;--]<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 11:15:09 -0600<BR>From: "Brandon Cope" &lt;copeab@mail.elc.net&gt;<BR>Subject: MHD/Gas Turbines (Re: GT:GF -- RTG Modules for Grav Vehicles)<BR><BR>(I think I'm the one who started the NPC rant on Pyramid ;)<BR><BR>I was playing around with the GVDS in GF the firsat night I got it (no, not my comp copy; I had to buy this one ;)and tried to design an open-topped, TL9 0.3-dton air/raft. Everything went well until it can time to pick a power source -- the NPU Core + 1 NPU Power module costs Cr 100,000 of the vehicles total Cr 150,100 cost ... and this Cr 100,000 has to be paid every year to replace the core.<BR><BR>I've decided to add MHD Turbine Core and Power modules as well as a <BR>Fuel Tank module. The Turbine has about 10% of the cost of an NPU <BR>though does require a significant amount of volume for useful fuel <BR>tanks. A gas turbine is probably okay for an air/raft that will be <BR>operated on one planet (with a breathable atmosphere); MHD turbines <BR>(closed cycle) are better for carried cratf on space ships.<BR><BR>TL 9: Gas Turbine Core: Cr 3750, 125 lbs, 1 VSP, +110 kW, 6.1 gph<BR>TL 9: Gas Turbine Power: Cr 3750, 125 lbs, 1 VPS, +125 kW, 6.9 gph<BR>TL 9 MHD Core: $2500, 125 lbs, +90 kW, 16.2 gph<BR>TL 9 MHD Power: $2500, 125 lbs, +125 kW, $2500, 22.5 gph<BR>TL 9 Fuel Tanks: Cr 330, 33 lbs, 1 VPS, +0 kW, holds 33 galons, self-<BR>Sealing (fuel cost and weight varies; for diesel fuel, Cr 40 and 198 lbs)<BR><BR>TL 10 MHD Core: $2500, 125 lbs, +163 kW, 24.5 gph<BR>TL 10 MHD Power: $2500, 125 lbs, +208 kW, 31.2 gph<BR><BR>All have short term access and fuel used is hydrogen. Use the fuel tank stats for the gas turbine, but for closed cycle use, assume that each module has a 22 gallon LHyd tank and an 11 gallon LOX tank.<BR><BR>22 gallons of LHyd is $2.2 and 12.7 lbs<BR>11 gallons of LOX is $1.1 and 105.6 lbs<BR><BR>For determining duration (only) for closed cycle engines, treat the fuel tank as holding 33 gallons of LHyd, then multiplying duration by 2/3.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 14:36:56 GMT<BR>From: Postmark Design Bureau &lt;postmark.design@btinternet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Which brings me to my question: If one of relativities foundations is<BR>&gt; &gt; that there are no absolutes,<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; That *isn't* one of relativity's foundations.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; It says that all inertial frames of reference are equally vaild. <BR><BR>Also, that all observers&nbsp; get the same set of physical laws to play with.<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; why does it assume that the speed of light through a vacuum absolute?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; It doesn't *assume* that. That's an observed fact. Relativity tries to<BR>&gt; come up with a set of rules that are *consistent* with that<BR>&gt; observation, and with all the older observations.<BR><BR>JC Maxwell's theory had shown that the speed of light depended on the<BR>properties of the material through which the light passed.<BR><BR>So either observers moving relative to each other would disagree<BR>on the properties of that material or they would agree on the speed of<BR>light.<BR><BR>If special relativity was wrong, you'd be able to deduce your absolute<BR>velocity by measuring those properties.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Phil Kitching, http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo<BR>Postmark Design Bureau, Laser Communications Division<BR>"For when your message must get through"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 11:38:41 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR><BR>Trent Smith wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I doubt I'll ever read those.&nbsp; While Brian Herbert's name lends a little bit<BR>&gt; of legitimacy, the Kevin Anderson connection seems to confirm my suspicion<BR>&gt; that these are nothing more than cheap trademark exploitation, the same as<BR>&gt; the 'fanfic' hackwork he built his career on.<BR><BR>I know in my heart that the prequels are going to suck, and there's overwhelming<BR>opionions from other Dune fans (on Amazon and on the Dune newsgroup) that<BR>support what my heart tells me.<BR><BR>But, if I end up liking the rest of the Dune series as much as I liked Dune (and<BR>I'm almost half way through Dune Messiah now--still loving it), I'll probably<BR>read them--Kevin J. Anderson or no Kevin J. Anderson--just to be a completeist.<BR><BR>I did some research lately too, and I saw that Herbert wrote a short story<BR>called "Road to Dune", which is published in his anthology called "Eye".<BR><BR>And, the BH/KJA team wrote a short story to go along with their prequels that<BR>was published in 1999 in the Amazing Stories magazine--I'll probably have to get<BR>my hands on that too.<BR><BR>I could get tired of Dune somewhere along the line, though--I'm fresh out of<BR>melange right now and I can't see into the future, so I really don't know what's<BR>going to happen.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; Since it won't be competeing with a pre-formed mental image of the Lynch<BR>&gt; movie, I suspect I'd like this one better.&nbsp; It seems this would've been a<BR>&gt; more logical place to start, actually...<BR><BR>As I said above, I am really enjoying Dune Messiah.&nbsp; It's definitely a<BR>"different" book, though--different in tone and style.&nbsp; If I didn't know better,<BR>I would assume somebody else wrote it.<BR><BR>I'm enjoying it because it is taking the Dune story in a totally unexpected<BR>direction (a way I never suspected, anyway).&nbsp; Sometimes that's not so<BR>good--people want to see more of what they fell in love with (which is why, I<BR>suspect, that some don't like the book).&nbsp; I've felt that way before with other<BR>books/movies (i.e.&nbsp; The completely awful Highlander II which completely<BR>destroyed everything that was "good" in the original).<BR><BR>But, I think the best sequels are those which grow and enrich the story and<BR>universe--not just copy it (Die Hard II was a so-so copy of the<BR>original....Aliens took the story in a whole new direction, giving us something<BR>new instead of the same old plot, yet it was a logical extension of the<BR>original).<BR><BR>So far, half way done, I'd say that Dune Messiah is like Aliens...it's got a new<BR>director, a new writer, and made by a whole new production company, but it is a<BR>surprising, logical, exciting, interesting extension of the events that occur in<BR>the first book.<BR><BR><BR>The SciFi sereies was OK in my book.&nbsp; It was definitely worth watching, but you<BR>won't be able to put it on you "best-shows-you've-ever-seen" list.&nbsp; I mean, its<BR>something to watch, enjoy, then forget about.<BR><BR>I think it was miles above the David Lynch film (and although I thought the<BR>Lynch version of Dune really sucked hard, even after viewing it again recently,<BR>he did have some brilliant takes on the Dune universe--and I thought some of the<BR>actors in the movie fit my picture of them from the book better, in some<BR>cases--not all.&nbsp; And, I sure liked many of the costumes better in the film, for<BR>my mental image, than I did the stupid ones in the miniseries--but the<BR>miniseries had a much better take on starships and vehicles, like the thopters).<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; The original 3 Foundation novels (haven't read the later add-ons) are<BR>&gt; amazing.&nbsp; I'd never been too crazy about Asimov ("Robot" stories, et al.)<BR>&gt; before reading this, but now I understand fully why he was considered the<BR>&gt; Grand Master.&nbsp; You're in for a major treat!<BR><BR>I'll have to get them--maybe after I've finished my Dune run, if I'm not in need<BR>of a different genre by that time.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; [Important Aside:<BR>&gt; while you were away we had a couple of very big and very nasty flame-wars<BR>&gt; about whether or not the government in Heinlein's book 'Starship Troopers'<BR>&gt; is fascist.&nbsp; Please don't accidentally say anything to get that one started<BR>&gt; up again!]<BR><BR>Well....(can't resist)...I haven't read the book, but from the movie, there is<BR>no doubt that the government is fascist...I don't see how anyone could look at<BR>that (awful) movie otherwise.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; *It's always a personal goal to read at least 20 books a year.<BR><BR>I don't have a quota like that (although my brother does--with his job, he tries<BR>to complete a book once a month, but those are almost always non-fiction,<BR>focused on his career.&nbsp; He thinks I waste time reading "novels", when I could be<BR>putting that time to better use either reading things that would advance my<BR>career or spend that time working towards my goal of getting this doggone film<BR>done).<BR><BR>I tend to go in spurts.&nbsp; I read when I'm in the book, when the fancy strikes me.<BR><BR>Sometimes, I don't feel like reading at all, and I don't.&nbsp; I read a lot of<BR>non-fiction, mostly movie-related stuff (like my brother, above), but when I get<BR>hit with a good itch to read a novel, I'll look around for something to catch my<BR>attention--or rather, I'll get excited about something and read to cool my<BR>passions.<BR><BR>Take the last year, for example.&nbsp; Last Novemember, I had just finished reading a<BR>series of three non-fiction filmmaking books.&nbsp; That's when the Star Wars craze<BR>hit me, and I read several (about 6 or so) of those.<BR><BR>Then, I got in a "spy" mood, and I read Tom Clancy's "The Cardinal of the<BR>Kremlin" and three books in John le Clare's "Smiley" series.<BR><BR>That took me to about summer in 2000, when I got struck with a good "Conan"<BR>feel--I hadn't read any Conan since I was in high school, so I went out an<BR>bought all 70 of them (I knew I wouldn't read them all in one spurt).&nbsp; I read 13<BR>in a row (reading through Conan's life in chronological&nbsp; order), when I needed a<BR>break.<BR><BR>I started looking around.&nbsp; Started working on KB3, and I thought I'd read some<BR>good old SciFi--which is when I discovered Dune.<BR><BR>And, maybe that's why I enjoyed it so much--I was sooo in the "mood" for it.<BR><BR>Like I said above, Dune Messiah is cool too.<BR><BR>Wait to you read about the gholas.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 11:41:19 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: CLIMAX!&nbsp; Conclusion to the Traveller Adventure<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Be careful about doing that. Word uses special non-ascii characters for<BR>&gt; right &amp; left single &amp; double quotes, for ellipsis (...) and for some<BR>&gt; types of dash.<BR><BR>Have you had a problem--all of my Traveller Adventure posts have been<BR>cut-n-pasted from Word.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 11:42:55 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: CLIMAX!&nbsp; Conclusion to the Traveller Adventure<BR><BR>"John G. Wood" wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Agreed - I loved the March Harrier tour Kenneth posted before he left, and<BR>&gt; it's good to see he hasn't lost his touch.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Welcome back, Kenneth!<BR><BR>Thanks, man.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 11:45:38 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: (5) Part One: Revisiting the Traveller Adventure<BR><BR>David Smart wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I just got caught up on all my TML backlog.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; DAMN, Doug!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Now _I_ want to run in your campaign.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &lt;sigh&gt; Too bad I'm in Texas.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; What an awesome, awesome write-up!<BR><BR>You were reading "Kenneth's" write-ups, not Doug's, but I thank you<BR>anyway...and I do live in Texas, Houston to be exact.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3409<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Sunday, December 17 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3410<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Finnish and American RPGs<BR>Re: Finnish and American RPGs<BR>Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR>RE: AHHH! Sailor Moon! <BR>RE: AHHH! Sailor Moon!<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR>Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR>Re: Finnish and American RPGs<BR>Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR>Re: Finnish and American RPGs<BR>RE: Aw crap.....&nbsp; was:RE: Question<BR>Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR>Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR>RE: Oregon Fun Shoot<BR>Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>RE: TEDs<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 13:30:24 -0500<BR>From: "Paul Drye" &lt;p_drye@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Finnish and American RPGs<BR><BR>&gt;(And, they have been printing much material for Harn lately, Barbarians, <BR>&gt;and Manors come into my mind.)<BR><BR>Really? I have a full set of all the old Harn stuff, but I'd long since <BR>given up on them. I'd look at the inserts proclaiming that "Trierzon" was <BR>due out in 1989 and laugh ruefully.<BR><BR>ObTrav: Perhaps it will be out by the 56th century.<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Paul Drye<BR><BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 18:31:02 +0000<BR>From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@onetel.net.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Finnish and American RPGs<BR><BR>On Sunday, December 17, 2000, at 01:55 PM, Legate Legion wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Look, face it, <BR>&gt; American Culture Rules.&nbsp; Not because it is the best, but because it is so <BR>&gt; flexable.&nbsp; Everyone has a say in it. <BR><BR>(LOL) Yeah, just like Soviet or Roman culture.&nbsp; :-)<BR><BR>ObTrav:<BR>The "What have the Romans ever done for us?" scene from Monty Python's Life of Brian transposed to the 3I with a group of Solomani revolutionaries -<BR><BR>"What's the Third Imperium ever done for us?"<BR>(Long pause from the others in the room. Then one raises a finger to speak.)<BR>"XBoats?"<BR>"Well, yeah, obviously, XBoats, goes without saying. But apart from that?"<BR>etc...<BR><BR>- - Rob.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 12:23:03 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR><BR>On 12/17/00 at 01:48 PM,&nbsp; "Andrew Long" &lt;dyrnwynn@hotmail.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 20:53:47<BR>&gt;&gt; From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Mu'ad-dib is Fremen for sh*thead.<BR>&gt;&gt; - --<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;Actually, I think Mu'ad-dib was the Fremen word for a small<BR>&gt;mouse-like creature (the kangaroo mouse?)...<BR><BR>&gt;(or was that a trawl?)<BR><BR>I'd say the answer is yes...to both. &lt;g&gt; <BR><BR>I haven't read most of the Dune novels. Like I said, I read the serializations in Analog magazine, and that was enough for me. &lt;shrug&gt; Different people have different tastes.<BR><BR>Eris<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 10:40:51<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: AHHH! Sailor Moon! <BR><BR>At 10:03 AM 12/17/2000 -0000, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&lt;G&gt; Did you go down to the south coast and fight the Rockers, Doug?<BR><BR>Subsitute (a great song, BTW) Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk for Brighton, then<BR>yes.&nbsp; <BR><BR>The Boardwalk was featured in the film _Lost Boys_, and it does feel that<BR>creepy.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 10:42:19<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: AHHH! Sailor Moon!<BR><BR>At 08:56 AM 12/17/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 21:24:08<BR>&gt;&gt;From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Subject: RE: AHHH! Sailor Moon!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Mod died with Keith Moon.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Keith Moon, Sailor Moon -- what's the connection?<BR><BR>Arrgh!&nbsp; I'm now stuck with images of the Sailor Scouts defeating the<BR>monster of the day, and then smashing their insturments!<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 10:52:59<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>At 10:36 AM 12/17/2000 +0200, you wrote:<BR>&gt;On Sat, 16 Dec 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Douglas, do you feel the same about San Francisco (or California, although<BR>&gt;that is bigger) as the States, as government? As SF is as big as Finland,<BR>&gt;and EU is about the same as the US, I think I can feel the same as you<BR>&gt;towards the big ones. B-/<BR><BR>Well, culturally California is two states: NorCal and the Evil Hordes of<BR>SoCal.&nbsp; We live in God's Own Land.&nbsp; They live in a blasted desert and try<BR>to steal our water.&nbsp; We have the Giants, they have the Dodgers (spit.)&nbsp; All<BR>of our state politics is a balancing act between these two cultural groups<BR>(and some in the northern parts of the state don't even want to claim the<BR>Bay Area!)<BR><BR>There is a mistrust of an intrusive government at all levels.&nbsp; We've just<BR>had a run-off election in SF and the current mayor, His Imperial Majesty<BR>Willie I, lost most of his supporters on the Board of Supervisors.<BR>Everyone is saying that this is because Willie was too pushy on several<BR>issues.&nbsp; We have a long traditional of telling the state to mind it's own<BR>business.<BR><BR>&gt;Perhaps I should come and visit the States someday. It seems that I<BR>&gt;haven't fully grasped its diversity, which might explain the distrust for <BR>&gt;the government : the place is simply too big. <BR><BR>You should.&nbsp; If nothing else, flying across the country helps to understand<BR>just how *big* this place is.&nbsp; I will formally extend an invitation to any<BR>TMLers who visit the Bay Area to visit us, and get the whole tour.<BR><BR>&gt;ObTrav:<BR>&gt;Our local gaming store (the only one worth the name in Finland) got BITS<BR>&gt;books a couple of weeks ago. They seem to be very useful, I bought 101<BR>&gt;Religions and 101 Governments for starters. It is nice to have full<BR>&gt;service stores, and friends who know people running them...<BR><BR>That it is.. I wish we'd get the BITS books in stores over here.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 13:21:14 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR><BR>On 12/17/00 at 02:14 AM,&nbsp; "Trent Smith" &lt;trentfs@ix.netcom.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;Kenneth Bearden wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;I'm talking about the Frank Herbert sequels.&nbsp; I've known several<BR>&gt;people who read 'Dune' and loved it so much that they immediately<BR>&gt;started reading the sequels.&nbsp; In my experience, these people<BR>&gt;invariably express great disappointment. <BR><BR>That describes me.&nbsp; I enjoyed Dune, well enough, but couldn't get<BR>into the sequels.&nbsp; It's been 30 years, maybe I should give them<BR>another try...but I'm afraid they'll be *far* down my list of things<BR>to read.<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;I doubt I'll ever read those.&nbsp; While Brian Herbert's name lends a<BR>&gt;little bit of legitimacy, the Kevin Anderson connection seems to<BR>&gt;confirm my suspicion that these are nothing more than cheap<BR>&gt;trademark exploitation, the same as the 'fanfic' hackwork he built<BR>&gt;his career on.&nbsp; <BR><BR>The name Kevin Anderson rings a bell, but I can't place anything he<BR>has written. <BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; *The others are: 'The Foundation Trilogy,'<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; I want to read this set.&nbsp; I've heard a lot about it.<BR><BR>&gt;The original 3 Foundation novels (haven't read the later add-ons)<BR>&gt;are amazing.&nbsp; I'd never been too crazy about Asimov ("Robot"<BR>&gt;stories, et al.) before reading this, but now I understand fully<BR>&gt;why he was considered the Grand Master.&nbsp; You're in for a major<BR>&gt;treat!<BR><BR>Yes!&nbsp; I first read the Foundation trilogy in 1967.&nbsp; I was a big fan<BR>of Asimov prior to that through reading his popular science books<BR>and various short stories.&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR><BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Stranger in a Strange Land,'<BR><BR>&gt;Others have already said a bit about this, so I'll add only this:<BR>&gt;it isn't so much a science-fiction book by the strict definition of<BR>&gt;the term (there's little-to-no actual science involved), but more a<BR>&gt;satirical comedy-of-manners in which Robert Heinlein, working in<BR>&gt;best Mark Twain mode, takes aim at the two biggest sacred cows in<BR>&gt;American society: Sex and Religion.&nbsp; This is a book that variously<BR>&gt;makes you laugh, makes you angry, and, most importantly, makes you<BR>&gt;think and ask questions.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Frankly, I don't think SIASL is RAH's best book, but it is *one* of<BR>his best.&nbsp; First time I started it, I had to put it aside for a<BR>while and change my mindset before starting again.&nbsp; Second time I<BR>was able to gronk it.&nbsp; Trent's right about it being a satire, most<BR>of RAH's books post Stranger *are* satires at heart. <BR><BR>&gt;[Important Aside: while you were away we<BR>&gt;had a couple of very big and very nasty flame-wars about whether or<BR>&gt;not the government in Heinlein's book 'Starship Troopers' is<BR>&gt;fascist.&nbsp; Please don't accidentally say anything to get that one<BR>&gt;started up again!]<BR><BR>LOL!&nbsp; Maybe a measure of how important an author is can be measured<BR>by the arguments his work generates.&nbsp; RAH's work, certainly,<BR>generates arguments.&nbsp; My *favorite* RAH books are:<BR><BR>&nbsp; 1.&nbsp; Between Planets<BR>&nbsp; 2.&nbsp; Citizen of the Galaxy<BR>&nbsp; 3.&nbsp; The Moon is a Harsh Mistress<BR>&nbsp; 4.&nbsp; Friday<BR>&nbsp; 5.&nbsp; The Past Through Tommorrow<BR>&nbsp; 6.&nbsp; The Number of the Beast<BR>&nbsp; 7.&nbsp; ...and Gulf all by itself<BR>&nbsp; <BR>Yes, I remember his juviniles dearly. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; 'The Left Hand of Darkness'<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Don't know this one either...can you enlighten me to this one?<BR><BR>Ursula Le Guin!&nbsp; This is a classic.&nbsp; Run don't walk to your local<BR>bookstore and grab a copy.&nbsp; You might never read anything else of Le<BR>Guin's, but this is worth reading.<BR><BR>&gt;Early contact with a Minor Human Race (to use Trav-equivalent<BR>&gt;terminology) with a radically different notion of gender (neuter<BR>&gt;most of the time, periodically taking both roles).&nbsp; Before reading<BR>&gt;this, I feared it was going to be a dry feminist-politic manifesto<BR>&gt;but, to my pleasant surprise, it has engaging characters, a very<BR>&gt;good story, and the scientific extrapolations (albeit in areas of<BR>&gt;sociology, psychology, and 'gender studies' rather than the typical<BR>&gt;"hard" sciences) are both extensive and reasoned.&nbsp; Also, Ursula<BR>&gt;LeGuin writes in a very literate and "modern" (without being<BR>&gt;pretentious or overbearing) style which was (and still is) quite<BR>&gt;rare in SF -- this is the best combination of "good writing" and<BR>&gt;"good SF" I've ever come across.<BR><BR>AOL!<BR><BR>Other, older, or lesser known, authors worth looking for are Edgar<BR>Pangborn, John Brunner, L. Sprauge de Camp, Venor Vinge, Edmund<BR>Hamilton, Gorden Dickson and George O Smith.&nbsp; I also remember Andre<BR>Norton and Allen?&nbsp; Norse with a lot of pleasure from my junior high<BR>days of the early sixties.&nbsp; Heck!&nbsp; It doesn't have to strictly be SF to be<BR>worthwhile, of course, there's Huxley, Vonnegut, Kiplin, Doyle,<BR>Hugo, Forrester, Dupee, Churchill, Twain, Bacon, Austin .&nbsp; .&nbsp; .&nbsp; &lt;g&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>Oh, and does anyone remember Herman Kahn?&nbsp; I found him right after<BR>I'd finished the Foundation.&nbsp; Don't tell *me* future-history is a<BR>fictional concept! Flawed, but not fictional. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Eris<BR><BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 13:25:10 -0600<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Mu'ad-dib is Fremen for sh*thead.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; - --<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Actually, I think Mu'ad-dib was the Fremen word for a small<BR>&gt; &gt;mouse-like creature (the kangaroo mouse?)...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;(or was that a trawl?)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I'd say the answer is yes...to both. &lt;g&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Muad'Dib is the Fremen name for a small water-conserving mouse (indeed, a <BR>kangaroo mouse, but Dune-adapted) whose likeness is on the face of one of <BR>Arrakis's moons.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>http://members.nbci.com/cheebzero/<BR>_________________________________________________________________<BR>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 13:29:53 -0600<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Finnish and American RPGs<BR><BR>&gt; This is just for the information that we do make RPGs here in Finland. Not<BR>&gt; very many, but some...<BR><BR>Yes. I've probably know this longer than most others on the list (or,<BR>indeed, in gaming). BTW, Mikko, have you tried RIP (it's not just fantasy)?<BR>It's Finnish. And Free.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>http://members.nbci.com/cheebzero/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 13:35:32 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR><BR>On 12/17/00 at 11:38 AM,&nbsp; Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; [Important Aside:<BR>&gt;&gt; while you were away we had a couple of very big and very nasty flame-wars<BR>&gt;&gt; about whether or not the government in Heinlein's book 'Starship Troopers'<BR>&gt;&gt; is fascist.&nbsp; Please don't accidentally say anything to get that one started<BR>&gt;&gt; up again!]<BR><BR>&gt;Well....(can't resist)...I haven't read the book, but from the<BR>&gt;movie, there is no doubt that the government is fascist...I don't<BR>&gt;see how anyone could look at that (awful) movie otherwise.<BR><BR>Here we go again! &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Ken, IMO, the movie Starship Troopers is even less representative of<BR>the book than Lynch's Dune is of that book.&nbsp; Go read the book, and<BR>remember what I wrote about Heinlein and satire.&nbsp; Whether the human<BR>government is protrayed as "fascist" (and the primary argument is<BR>over just *what* a fascist government is) or not, the book is worth<BR>reading, and digging down to what is under the surface.&nbsp; IMO, it's<BR>not one of RAH's best five books, I'd put it down about nine, but<BR>it's still better than 99.99% of the books out there.<BR><BR>I didn't participate in the last two threads (not flame-wars, just<BR>intermidablely *looog* threads) and I won't participate if another<BR>breaks out. <BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 13:38:43 -0600<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Finnish and American RPGs<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Then don't bitch about how American they are.&nbsp; Its like the French<BR>&gt; bitching about how American movies made in America are.&nbsp; Look, face it,<BR>&gt; American Culture Rules.&nbsp; Not because it is the best, but because it is so<BR>&gt; flexable.&nbsp; Everyone has a say in it.&nbsp; If you are African, you can find<BR>&gt; elements of African Culture here, if you are Finish, you can find Finish<BR>&gt; Culture here, but the great thing is that it is a melange of them.&nbsp; Look<BR>at<BR>&gt; Bar-B-Que.&nbsp; That is an All American Food, more than the Hot Dog or<BR>&gt; Hamburger.&nbsp; It is sweet or tart, mild or hot.&nbsp; It is what you make of it,<BR>&gt; like American Culture.<BR><BR>Not to offend anyone, but here's my feelings:<BR><BR>American Culture rules because it's the best. And it's the best because it's<BR>so flexible. Everyone has a say in it. We don't even have an official<BR>language. And the most common system of measurement isn't the official one!<BR>We run the gamut!<BR><BR>ObTraveller: The Imperium is the best because it's so flexible. Everyworld<BR>has a say in it. It doesn't have an official system of government. It runs<BR>the gamut!<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>http://members.nbci.com/cheebzero/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 11:36:36 -0800<BR>From: Jesse DeGraff &lt;jdegraff@pacbell.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Aw crap.....&nbsp; was:RE: Question<BR><BR>LOL!<BR>Jesse<BR><BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Douglas E. Berry<BR>&gt; Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 12:49 PM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Aw crap..... was:RE: Question<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; At 01:08 PM 12/16/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;Doug, we'd have had to drape Tod's AI in plastic to keep you <BR>&gt; from damaging<BR>&gt; &gt;it with drool.&nbsp; VERY sweet and accurate as all hell!!!!!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Jesse, you know me better than that!&nbsp; I'd be drooling right up until I<BR>&gt; touched the weapon, then I'd be a pro.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; -- <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>&gt; http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 13:50:46 -0600<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR><BR>&gt;Well....(can't resist)...I haven't read the book, but from the movie, there <BR>&gt;is<BR>&gt;no doubt that the government is fascist...I don't see how anyone could look <BR>&gt;at<BR>&gt;that (awful) movie otherwise.<BR><BR>Point One: I know you're not being serious, but the Imperium in Dune is not <BR>fascist, it's feudal in the worst sense.<BR><BR>Point Two: Which movie are you talking about? The orignal or the new one? <BR>I've only seen the original, and, to me, it's stands as a triumphant <BR>monument in the halls of science fiction flicks. I didn't watch the new one, <BR>partly out of fear that it would spoil my appetite for the original, and it.<BR><BR>Point Three: DUNE ROCKS!<BR><BR>ObTraveller: I wonder if the Imperium of Dune has problems with Near-C <BR>rocks...<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>http://members.nbci.com/cheebzero/<BR>_________________________________________________________________<BR>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 12:00:48 -0800<BR>From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>"Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; From: Mikko V. I. Parviainen &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;(I should quit conversating about this. This is my last post on the<BR>&gt; &gt;subject. Really. I mean it.)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;On Sat, 16 Dec 2000, Legate Legion wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &lt;&lt; Why does the US persist in clinging to it hugely inefficent<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; insurance model of health care? Why does the US allow so many<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; blatantly "silly" law suits? Why does the US have such a problem<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; with gun control? Why does the US so fear its own government? All<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; these things seem quite baffling to<BR>&gt; me,<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; yet I assume they all make perfect sense if you're on the inside.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;All questions I want to ask, too. B-)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Some rebuttals follow...<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Because it works, no matter what happens, Americans have some<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; of the<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; best medical care anywhere.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Please define 'the best'. Or, perhaps the word 'some' means that it<BR>&gt; &gt;is right for just the rich to get the best medical care, and the poor<BR>&gt; &gt;not?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Actually, the poor get the same amount of medical the rich do. <BR>&gt; Now, if you count the best medical care as in a private room, then yes the<BR>&gt; rich get better care than the poor, but I have not heard anything<BR>&gt; about this in the media, of course I do not have the Finnish Media<BR>&gt; watching out for me.<BR><BR>I guess I'm living in an alternate universe version of the US then.&nbsp; I <BR>know a number of folks with no medical insurance (primarily temp <BR>workers) and even more with really pathetic insurance (like myself). <BR>Even among members of the lower half of the middle class, much <BR>of HMO style managed care is a joke where the doctors cut <BR>corners at ever opportunity in an effort to reduce costs.&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR><BR>Sure, if you're making $35K/year and up working for a large <BR>company you're probably getting care almost as good as someone <BR>making $200K/year, however, there are all those folks making less <BR>than that.&nbsp; The most recent figure I've seen is that 10-15% of <BR>Americans have no health insurance at all.<BR><BR>In addition to the basic fact that for-profit insurance is a silly idea <BR>(the way the companies make the most money is by taking in as <BR>much of your money as they can and paying as little in claims as <BR>possible), the system in the US is a dismal failure for the working <BR>poor.&nbsp; <BR><BR>If you're upper middle class or better you have fine heathcare, if you <BR>are destitute you have OK medical care (from reports, care <BR>medicare is notably inferior to most other types of healthcare.&nbsp; <BR>There are far more problems than the mere lack of a private room), <BR>and if you are someone making between $8K and $15 K/year you <BR>likely have either no heath care or really bad heath care.<BR><BR>In most of Western Europe, this is not true.&nbsp; Those nations have&nbsp; <BR>civilized heathcare systems that actually does cover everyone <BR>(instead of merely saying that everyone is covered).&nbsp; I'm a US <BR>citizen, and I agree that there is a lot that is good about this nation. <BR>However, the insistence that many Americans have that we have <BR>everything better than any other nation is destructive, foolish, and <BR>shortsighted (as well as being a great tool for politicians and large <BR>corporations who would prefer not to have to make any changes to <BR>a system that is doing far more for them than for the citizenry). <BR><BR><BR>- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 14:03:28 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>On 12/18/00 at 12:18 AM,&nbsp; "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;On 16 Dec 00, at 14:34, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;Take a look at Mikko Parviainen's post of 10 Dec and you'll see one<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;of the&nbsp; main reasons (preserving local culture against a perceived<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;threat from&nbsp; being overwhelmed).<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; That makes, marginal, sense, but I don't see it as a government<BR>&gt;&gt; function.&nbsp; As I wrote Mikko, we'll just have to take a pass on this<BR>&gt;&gt; one, I'm afraid.<BR><BR>&gt;Because preserving local culture is one of the governments more<BR>&gt;important&nbsp; jobs. <BR><BR>Andrew, *why* is preseving local culture one of the government's<BR>more important jobs?&nbsp; Why is it a job of government at all?&nbsp; Yes, I<BR>*know* some people think preserving local culture is important, the<BR>French, the Iranian Mullahs...obviously the Finns...and even many of<BR>my neighbors, but why is this the *government's* job?&nbsp; To tell you<BR>the truth, this is even more scary than the idea of the government<BR>taking away our guns!&nbsp; <BR><BR>A local community's culture is its language, art, music, religion,<BR>literature, moral codes, ethics, history...&nbsp; Government control?<BR>Even government involvement?&nbsp; Shudder!&nbsp; We already have too much of<BR>this in the US...and here government isn't the biggest villian.<BR><BR>&gt;To me, the naming laws do seem an "over the top"<BR>&gt;response, but I&nbsp; can very well see the reasoning behind them.<BR><BR>I can see it too, but I can't understand it giving your government<BR>this sort of responsibility. <BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;Everything is relative to your frame of reference.<BR><BR>Is it?&nbsp; &lt;g&gt; The argument between social relativity and social<BR>absolutism is a popular pass time in the States.&nbsp; It ranks up there<BR>with floridation of municiple water supplies.&nbsp; &lt;g&gt; I think I'd argue<BR>that our "regulated culture" friends are more Absolutist than<BR>Relativists.&nbsp; No, actually, I think I won't argue about it at all.<BR>Like I wrote, we're going to miss each other on this discussion.<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 14:10:22 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR><BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; The name Kevin Anderson rings a bell, but I can't place anything he<BR>&gt; has written.<BR><BR>He's the worst hack ever to carve a word out on paper.&nbsp; He writes fanfic--Star<BR>Wars books, X-Files books, others.<BR><BR>I've read three of this Star Wars books (the Jedi Academy trilogy), and these<BR>reads were so bad that they were not worth the wrinkles you get on the back of<BR>your shirt as you lean back and read.<BR><BR>Awful, awful stuff.<BR><BR>I vowed I would never read anything again with KJA's name on them--but it<BR>looks like I might just have to try out the Dune prequels.<BR><BR>Shit.&nbsp; I wish he hadn't been involved with that project.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 14:14:07 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR><BR>James Jensen wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Point One: I know you're not being serious, but the Imperium in Dune is not<BR>&gt; fascist, it's feudal in the worst sense.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Point Two: Which movie are you talking about? The orignal or the new one?<BR>&gt; I've only seen the original, and, to me, it's stands as a triumphant<BR>&gt; monument in the halls of science fiction flicks. I didn't watch the new one,<BR>&gt; partly out of fear that it would spoil my appetite for the original, and it.<BR><BR>James...we were tallking about Starship Troopers there, not Dune.<BR><BR>I don't think Dune shows a fascist government--it shows a feudal one.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Point Three: DUNE ROCKS!<BR><BR>I'm a new initiate, and I agree.&nbsp; Fascinating universe.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 12:12:19 -0800<BR>From: Jesse DeGraff &lt;jdegraff@pacbell.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Oregon Fun Shoot<BR><BR>May 19th &amp; 20th, 2001.&nbsp; Mark your calendars now!!&nbsp; I'm sure Mark &amp; I will<BR>remind everyone again as it get's closer to May.<BR><BR>Jesse<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Glenn M. Goffin<BR>&gt; Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 7:59 PM<BR>&gt; To: Traveller-Digest<BR>&gt; Subject: Oregon Fun Shoot<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Those are some nice pictures on Jesse's site.&nbsp; I'm looking forward to<BR>&gt; participating at the next one (May or thereabouts, right?).&nbsp; I<BR>&gt; hope Doug can<BR>&gt; go, too.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; --Glenn<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 14:14:18 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>On 12/17/00 at 07:38 AM,&nbsp; "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Btw, Robert A. Heinlein was not a Fascist, but a Republican.<BR><BR>LOL! Now you've done it! Half this country, and most of the rest of the world, can't tell the difference between fascists and Republicans. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>However, I bet he was an independent.<BR><BR>Now, for something more serioius!&nbsp; I say it's spelled barbecue, is a sauce/marinade/style of cooking, not a dish made of spicy loose meat served on a bun, includes tomatoes *and* mustard, is both sweet, tart, and hot, and would be a perfect way of serving leg of K'kree!<BR><BR>So, there!<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 14:20:01 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: RE: TEDs<BR><BR>On 12/17/00 at 08:39 PM,&nbsp; "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;An interesting variant setting might be one where the 12 Dawn<BR>&gt;League ships aren't sent out on a suicide mission, and instead are<BR>&gt;used in a sensible manner, with only some of them being lost.&nbsp; With<BR>&gt;this *manipulation* removed, the League doesn't reorganise itself<BR>&gt;on quite such an aggressive basis, and expands more slowly.<BR><BR>Interesting!&nbsp; Yes, that would have made a big difference in the feel to me. I think, I'll think about this a little more...<BR><BR>Eris<BR><BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3410<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-ye05.mx.aol.com (rly-ye05.mail.aol.com [172.18.151.202]) by air-ye01.mail.aol.com (v77.14) with ESMTP; Sun, 17 Dec 2000 15:50:44 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-ye05.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Sun, 17 Dec 2000 15:50:27 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id PAA81267;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Sun, 17 Dec 2000 15:48:13 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Sun, 17 Dec 2000 15:48:00 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id PAA81157<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Sun, 17 Dec 2000 15:48:00 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 15:48:00 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012172048.PAA81157@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3410<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3411</B></TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Sunday, December 17 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3411<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: CLIMAX!&nbsp; Conclusion to the Traveller Adventure<BR>RE: AHHH! Sailor Moon!<BR>(OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR>Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR>(0) KB3 Traveller System (Playtest)<BR>Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR>Re: Finnish and American RPGs<BR>Re: Finnish and American RPGs<BR>Who's Who in the Spinward a Possible Addition to the Rogues Gallery<BR>Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR>(1) KB3 Traveller System (Playtest)<BR>RE: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR>Lab Ship Deck Plans<BR>Seas of LOX<BR>Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 14:34:53 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: CLIMAX!&nbsp; Conclusion to the Traveller Adventure<BR><BR>On 12/17/00 at 05:19 AM,&nbsp; shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:<BR><BR>&gt;In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Naw...I wouldn't send an attachment to the list.&nbsp; I'll just post them<BR>&gt;&gt; normally in plain text, e-mail format.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Cut-n-paste from the Word doc.<BR><BR>&gt;Be careful about doing that. Word uses special non-ascii characters<BR>&gt;for right &amp; left single &amp; double quotes, for ellipsis (...) and for<BR>&gt;some types of dash. <BR><BR>&gt;The presence of those characters causes the list software to<BR>&gt;convert the post to Mime quoted printable which means that for<BR>&gt;folks like me they come out as =xx where xx is the hex value of the<BR>&gt;character. <BR><BR>And in some cases, with my mail client anyway, results in making large sections of text unreadable. Literally unreadable.<BR><BR>&gt;Set up a "generic text printer" in windows, and set it to print to<BR>&gt;a file. Then print the document using that printer, and import<BR>&gt;*that* file into your message. <BR><BR>How about, just saving as DOS text mode from Word? Wouldn't that convert all those funky characters back to plain ASCII?<BR><BR>&gt;&lt;sigh&gt; Life was so much simpler before MS decided that they know<BR>&gt;what we want better than we do. :-(<BR><BR>Yeah, ain't monopoly a bitch? &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 14:37:42 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: RE: AHHH! Sailor Moon!<BR><BR>On 12/17/00 at 10:42 AM,&nbsp; "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;Mod died with Keith Moon.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Keith Moon, Sailor Moon -- what's the connection?<BR><BR>&gt;Arrgh!&nbsp; I'm now stuck with images of the Sailor Scouts defeating<BR>&gt;the monster of the day, and then smashing their insturments! -- <BR><BR>Even scarier, picture Tuxedo Mask as Keith Moon...uh, would that make Sailor Moon, Mick Jagger?&nbsp; &lt;shudder!&gt;<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 21:52:23 +0100<BR>From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" &lt;jenry023@student.liu.se&gt;<BR>Subject: (OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR><BR>Someone (Legate?) wrote:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Then don't bitch about how American they are.<BR><BR>I regularly do, but no longer on this list (due to past flamewars).<BR>However, I really must respond to this post. It struck me as a typical<BR>example of exactly why non-Americans bitch about American attitudes.<BR><BR>&gt; Its like the French bitching about how American movies made in America are.<BR><BR>Many Europeans bitch about American movies. That's because most of them<BR>are predictable and dull compared to most European movies.<BR><BR>&gt; Look, face it, American Culture Rules.<BR><BR>In your opinion. The opinions of others may vary.<BR><BR>&gt; Not because it is the best, but because it is so flexable.<BR><BR>Flexible enough to accept opinions other than your own?<BR><BR>&gt; Everyone has a say in it.<BR><BR>Even a leftist atheist like me?<BR><BR>&gt; If you are African, you can find elements of African Culture here, if you are Finish, you<BR>&gt; can find Finish Culture here, but the great thing is that it is a melange of them.<BR><BR>True. Lots of pagan (Halloween, etc.), revolutionary (the founding of<BR>the US), and other influences. All mixed beyond recognition.<BR><BR>Sorry for making this post, but I really had to do it. I will not add to<BR>this thread, so if you want a reply from me, mail me in private.<BR><BR>* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *<BR>| jenry023@student.liu.se&nbsp; | of Linkoeping, Sweden&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR>| ICQ UIN: 3844745&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; | (computer science/tech.)&nbsp; |<BR>* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 22 years old, male&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; *<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 14:50:26 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR><BR>On 12/17/00 at 02:10 PM,&nbsp; Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; The name Kevin Anderson rings a bell, but I can't place anything he<BR>&gt;&gt; has written.<BR><BR>&gt;He's the worst hack ever to carve a word out on paper.&nbsp; He writes<BR>&gt;fanfic--Star Wars books, X-Files books, others.<BR><BR>I wouldn't know him from that. I don't read those.&nbsp; Maybe I know the name in a different context, maybe sports or something?<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 15:08:55 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: (0) KB3 Traveller System (Playtest)<BR><BR>Disclaimer:<BR><BR>I've been hit with 14 private e-mails recently from people wanting to<BR>know more about KB3.&nbsp; I do appreciate the interest...but I probably<BR>should have kept quiet until I was done playtesting.&nbsp; I'm a big believer<BR>in the play test.<BR><BR>But, I have been persuaded to let the cat out of the bag (against my<BR>better judgement at this point).&nbsp; It's not a bad idea, either, to see<BR>what others think of my work.&nbsp; Constructive comments are always welcome,<BR>and this list is a perfect place to perfect an idea (or a task system,<BR>in this case).<BR><BR>I will say this, though.&nbsp; I know there are people out there who will not<BR>like KB3.&nbsp; It doesn't matter who you are...or what quality of work<BR>you've done...or how good your idea is...somebody will not like what<BR>you've created.&nbsp; You can be Steven Spielberg and create a movie like<BR>Jaws or Schindler's List, and people will bitch.&nbsp; You can be Marc Miller<BR>and create one of the most fascinating role playing games ever, and<BR>people will bitch (me included).&nbsp; You can be Frank Herbert and write the<BR>most popular science fiction book of all time, and people will bitch.<BR><BR>The only thing a creative person can do is create to please himself.&nbsp; If<BR>others like what he has created,&nbsp; that is a side benefit (albeit an<BR>attractive one).&nbsp; I have created KB3 for me and my group, and it's the<BR>best work I've done.&nbsp; It's a simple system that fits Traveller like a<BR>glove.&nbsp; A Traveller fan can easily transplant it into any Traveller<BR>game, no matter which edition you happen to be using, and using this<BR>system will allow you to mix and match books from CT, MT, and T4.&nbsp; (KB3<BR>can be used with TNE and GT items too--but with more conversion due to<BR>the radically different game mechanics used in those games).<BR><BR>KB3 works especially well as a task system for CT.&nbsp; KB3 modernizes the<BR>(very good, in my opinion) task system used in MT.&nbsp; KB3 replaces the<BR>flawed task system in T4 (not fixes, like KB2.0 was designed to do), and<BR>something like this is what I'd like to see used in T5 when it hits the<BR>light of day.<BR><BR>The KB3 task system, as I stated above, is a very simple system.&nbsp; It<BR>allows you to focus on role playing--not game mechanics.&nbsp; It provides<BR>equal importance to the weight of both skills and stats when a throw is<BR>made.&nbsp; It uses only (Traveller-demanded) 6 sided dice.&nbsp; And, there are<BR>no new "stats" to come up with--like the "experience" figure needed to<BR>make KB2.0 work.<BR><BR>What I like most about the system is that it is both simple and easy to<BR>implement, but it will also give a range of detail you are used to<BR>having from other Traveller systems.&nbsp; We're not sacrificing detail here<BR>for easier game mechanics--we're trading the more complex mechanics in<BR>other editions for a simpler system that provides the same results.<BR><BR>I have many more rules that I'm using and playtesting--some that I've<BR>created, some that I've taken from previous Traveller rule systems--and<BR>I will post these later as I figure out which is the best method for use<BR>with KB3.<BR><BR>For now, though, I present to you, the KB3 task system.<BR><BR>(with the disclaimer that the system is now in playtest--consider this a<BR>beta version)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 15:12:32 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR><BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I wouldn't know him from that. I don't read those.&nbsp; Maybe I know the name in a different context, maybe sports or something?<BR><BR>He writes comic books too, and he's an archiver of sorts (which is something he actually does well), having written an<BR>"encyclopedia" type of work for Star Wars and consulting with other Star Wars writers to help keep their "universe" facts<BR>straight.<BR><BR>I can't figure where you might know him from other than that.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 12:57:14 -0800<BR>From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Finnish and American RPGs<BR><BR>From: James Jensen &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Not to offend anyone, but here's my feelings:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;American Culture rules because it's the best.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>I don't think so, but whatever.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 15:29:09 -0600<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Finnish and American RPGs<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Not to offend anyone, but here's my feelings:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;American Culture rules because it's the best.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I don't think so, but whatever.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>It's understandable that some will feel this way. Everyone tends to think <BR>that their native culture is the best.<BR><BR>Actually, saying that there is actually an American culture is at best <BR>misleading and at worst completely wrong. American "Culture" is really just <BR>a harmonious blend of (just about) every culture in the world. That's why <BR>"American Culture" rules. It's because it's so diverse. It's not one, but <BR>many.<BR><BR>Like the Third Imperium.<BR><BR>In conclusion, it's no more right or wrong for someone to say "I'm proud to <BR>be an American" as to say "I'm proud to be Finnish", or "I'm proud to be <BR>Japanese", etc.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>http://members.nbci.com/cheebzero/<BR>_________________________________________________________________<BR>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 16:57:48 -0500<BR>From: "Daniel Phelps" &lt;phelpsd@gate.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Who's Who in the Spinward a Possible Addition to the Rogues Gallery<BR><BR>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.<BR><BR>- ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C0684A.7C28EF60<BR>Content-Type: text/plain;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable<BR><BR>In keeping with the project I have been working on please see the =<BR>following.&nbsp;&nbsp; As this NCP goes a bit farther afield into the the realm of =<BR>PSI powers comments are solicited. =20<BR><BR>The Elegant Gentleman<BR><BR>Provide Name and noble rank as deemed appropriate (I call him Baronet =<BR>Smythe, Ullyses Perceval Smythe to be exact), Thief/Remittance Man<BR><BR>Milieu: Any Sector: Any<BR><BR>Human male apparently in his late 40=92s or early 50=92s.<BR><BR>Slight of build, tallish and an elegant dresser he=92s a thief but not =<BR>your garden variety thug, no indeed. An occasional gentleman thief is =<BR>the best way to describe him, indeed he has worked as a discrete social =<BR>assistant/personal buyer for various nobles, often those recently come =<BR>to their rank, and even as a society walker on occasion. He is said to =<BR>be a remittance man paid through a trust by wealthy relatives elsewhere =<BR>under the condition that he confine himself to the Spinward Marches. If =<BR>so it is apparently just enough to "get by". Unfailingly polite he has =<BR>impeccable taste and manners, an endearing charm and tells quite =<BR>humorous stories about the rich, powerful and famous. He does, on =<BR>occasion, appear to be fond of slight of hand and card tricks. Oddly he =<BR>travels with a small cat sized pet.<BR><BR><BR>Described as distinguished, this scion of a down at the heels branch of =<BR>a very noble family tree grew up on the fringes of money and power. =<BR>Courtesy of rich relatives, he had the best of educational opportunities =<BR>but generally made poor use of them majoring, as it were, in cards and =<BR>good times. It was during this period that it is suspected that he made =<BR>his psionic contacts and gained his schooling. Be that as it may he is =<BR>in the Spinwards now.=20<BR><BR>Regarding psionics, among other more "normal" talents he seems to have =<BR>the ability make small objects, lying at rest and in plain sight, =<BR>teleport relatively short distances, such as into his pocket. Typically =<BR>the objects are the size of jewelry, betting tokens, and keys, but it is =<BR>not know what his upper mass limit is. Occasionally this teleportation =<BR>has appeared to have included the direct substitution of one object for =<BR>another. As the phenomenon seems to occur when his "pet" is present the =<BR>creature may have something to do with his powers then again perhaps =<BR>not.<BR><BR>Regarding his pet, it is reclusive when not with Smythe and will hide. =<BR>It appears to have the ability to fool a direct observer, within a =<BR>couple of meters or so of it, into thinking that it is some innocuous =<BR>object such as boot, a small bag, a cushion or a pile clothing. If =<BR>cornered and threatened it will scream, bite, and claw with an effect on =<BR>the recipient that has been compared unfavorably to putting one=92s hand =<BR>in a food processor.=20<BR><BR>Baronet Smythe received TAS membership as a "gift" from his relatives =<BR>indeed it is through the Society that his trust fund payments come. He =<BR>tours TAS hostels on many different worlds in the Spinwards. He might be =<BR>encountered in a starliner=92s lounge, a caf=E9, a resort, a restaurant, =<BR>a hotel, a casino or an exclusive shop. If the PCs control, own or serve =<BR>as crew on a star ship he may seek passage on their vessel for himself =<BR>and his pet. He has all the correct papers for his pet and it is quite =<BR>well behaved. He even has a special cage for it that doubles as a rescue =<BR>ball. He appears to be moderately wealthy, quite high class, with an =<BR>accent to match. If encountered travelling alone he does so with a =<BR>moderate amount of luggage and no companions. If encountered travelling =<BR>with an employer he will be part of that noble=92s retinue and will =<BR>function as his personal assistant.<BR><BR><BR>- ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C0684A.7C28EF60<BR>Content-Type: text/html;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable<BR><BR>&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;HEAD&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =<BR>http-equiv=3DContent-Type&gt;<BR>&lt;META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR&gt;<BR>&lt;/HEAD&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<BR>
<P>In keeping with the project I have been working on please see the=20<BR>following.&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; As this NCP goes a bit farther afield into the =<BR>the realm=20<BR>of PSI powers comments are solicited.&amp;nbsp; </P><BR>
<P>The Elegant Gentleman</P><BR>
<P>Provide Name and noble rank as deemed appropriate (I call him Baronet =<BR>Smythe,=20<BR>Ullyses Perceval Smythe to be exact), Thief/Remittance Man</P><BR>
<P>Milieu: Any Sector: Any</P><BR>
<P>Human male apparently in his late 40&amp;rsquo;s or early 50&amp;rsquo;s.</P><BR>
<P>Slight of build, tallish and an elegant dresser he&amp;rsquo;s a thief =<BR>but not=20<BR>your garden variety thug, no indeed. An occasional gentleman thief is =<BR>the best=20<BR>way to describe him, indeed he has worked as a discrete social=20<BR>assistant/personal buyer for various nobles, often those recently come =<BR>to their=20<BR>rank, and even as a society walker on occasion. He is said to be a =<BR>remittance=20<BR>man paid through a trust by wealthy relatives elsewhere under the =<BR>condition that=20<BR>he confine himself to the Spinward Marches. If so it is apparently just =<BR>enough=20<BR>to &amp;quot;get by&amp;quot;. Unfailingly polite he has impeccable taste and =<BR>manners,=20<BR>an endearing charm and tells quite humorous stories about the rich, =<BR>powerful and=20<BR>famous. He does, on occasion, appear to be fond of slight of hand and =<BR>card=20<BR>tricks. Oddly he travels with a small cat sized pet.</P><BR>
<P></P><BR>
<P>Described as distinguished, this scion of a down at the heels branch =<BR>of a=20<BR>very noble family tree grew up on the fringes of money and power. =<BR>Courtesy of=20<BR>rich relatives, he had the best of educational opportunities but =<BR>generally made=20<BR>poor use of them majoring, as it were, in cards and good times. It was =<BR>during=20<BR>this period that it is suspected that he made his psionic contacts and =<BR>gained=20<BR>his schooling. Be that as it may he is in the Spinwards now. </P><BR>
<P>Regarding psionics, among other more &amp;quot;normal&amp;quot; talents he =<BR>seems to=20<BR>have the ability make small objects, lying at rest and in plain sight, =<BR>teleport=20<BR>relatively short distances, such as into his pocket. Typically the =<BR>objects are=20<BR>the size of jewelry, betting tokens, and keys, but it is not know what =<BR>his upper=20<BR>mass limit is. Occasionally this teleportation has appeared to have =<BR>included the=20<BR>direct substitution of one object for another. As the phenomenon seems =<BR>to occur=20<BR>when his &amp;quot;pet&amp;quot; is present the creature may have something to =<BR>do with=20<BR>his powers then again perhaps not.</P><BR>
<P>Regarding his pet, it is reclusive when not with Smythe and will =<BR>hide. It=20<BR>appears to have the ability to fool a direct observer, within a couple =<BR>of meters=20<BR>or so of it, into thinking that it is some innocuous object such as =<BR>boot, a=20<BR>small bag, a cushion or a pile clothing. If cornered and threatened it =<BR>will=20<BR>scream, bite, and claw with an effect on the recipient that has been =<BR>compared=20<BR>unfavorably to putting one&amp;rsquo;s hand in a food processor. </P><BR>
<P>Baronet Smythe received TAS membership as a &amp;quot;gift&amp;quot; from his =<BR><BR>relatives indeed it is through the Society that his trust fund payments =<BR>come. He=20<BR>tours TAS hostels on many different worlds in the Spinwards. He might be =<BR><BR>encountered in a starliner&amp;rsquo;s lounge, a caf&amp;eacute;, a resort, a=20<BR>restaurant, a hotel, a casino or an exclusive shop. If the PCs control, =<BR>own or=20<BR>serve as crew on a star ship he may seek passage on their vessel for =<BR>himself and=20<BR>his pet. He has all the correct papers for his pet and it is quite well =<BR>behaved.=20<BR>He even has a special cage for it that doubles as a rescue ball. He =<BR>appears to=20<BR>be moderately wealthy, quite high class, with an accent to match. If =<BR>encountered=20<BR>travelling alone he does so with a moderate amount of luggage and no =<BR>companions.=20<BR>If encountered travelling with an employer he will be part of that =<BR>noble&amp;rsquo;s=20<BR>retinue and will function as his personal =<BR>assistant.</P>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR><BR>- ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C0684A.7C28EF60--<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 17:22:18 -0500<BR>From: "Daniel Phelps" &lt;phelpsd@gate.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>Was written:<BR><BR>&gt;Now, for something more serioius!&nbsp; I say it's spelled barbecue, is a<BR>sauce/marinade/style of cooking, not a dish made of spicy loose meat served<BR>on a bun, includes tomatoes *and* mustard, is both sweet, tart, and hot, and<BR>would be a perfect way of serving leg of K'kree!<BR><BR><BR>Yes but what kind of sauce/marinade/style of cooking, a Carolina style pig<BR>picken with a vinagar base, or grilled with a Georgia mustard based sauce or<BR>Tennessee hickory smoked with a tomato based sauce or Texas brisket style<BR>with sausage and beans?<BR><BR>Say how about K'kree chilli, or chops done like Cuban pork or perhaps that<BR>leg done like Greek leg of lamb on a bed of saffron rice or even<BR>SHISH-K-BOBed with couscous, humus,&nbsp; tabouli and pita bread?<BR><BR>Dan who just got over the flu where by he lost 10 pounds and is currently<BR>HUNGRY.&nbsp; Going to now stuff something into his cake hole.&nbsp; Bye.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 16:51:00 -0600 (CST)<BR>From: Gregory Carl Kettler &lt;gckettle@midway.uchicago.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR><BR>On Sun, 17 Dec 2000 eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>&gt; That describes me.&nbsp; I enjoyed Dune, well enough, but couldn't get<BR>&gt; into the sequels.&nbsp; It's been 30 years, maybe I should give them<BR>&gt; another try...but I'm afraid they'll be *far* down my list of things<BR>&gt; to read.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Curse this thread and the demands it will place on my reading time.&nbsp; I<BR>read Dune several years ago and should re-read it soon, but I've also<BR>owned the sequels since that time and never got into them.&nbsp; Now I'll end<BR>up trying to read them again.<BR><BR>&gt; Yes!&nbsp; I first read the Foundation trilogy in 1967.&nbsp; I was a big fan<BR>&gt; of Asimov prior to that through reading his popular science books<BR>&gt; and various short stories.&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR><BR>I just read this a couple of months ago, and enjoyed it greatly.&nbsp; I should<BR>have read it long ago, but bookstore shelves have always been so crowded<BR>with his post-trilogy Foundation books that I had no idea where to start.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 16:53:08 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: (1) KB3 Traveller System (Playtest)<BR><BR>KB3&nbsp; Definitions and Notes.<BR><BR>Character Generation:<BR>KB3 is designed to be used with characters generated using the "classic"<BR>chargen systems used in CT, MT, and T4.&nbsp; You can, if you choose, use<BR>characters designed from these systems "inter-changeably", but I would<BR>suggest that you use either the CT/MT systems exclusively, or the T4<BR>system exclusively (because of the skill level variance).<BR><BR>There is a way to make the chargen systems interchangeable (both CT/MT<BR>vs T4...AND...4 year method vs. advanced 1 year method), and I am<BR>working on a quick fix which would allow interchangeable characters from<BR>each of these systems--but that's on a back burner as I playtest and<BR>finalize KB3.<BR><BR>KB3 characters, designed from these systems, are those with Stats<BR>(attributes/characteristics) which range from 2-15, with a Stat of 7<BR>representing human average (Stats of 0 or 1 are possible but unlikely).<BR><BR>Skills in KB3, as designed under those classic chargen systems, range in<BR>level from 0-5, with skill level 6 or higher not completely unheard of.<BR><BR><BR><BR>The Universal Traveller Game Mechanic:<BR>KB3 is based on one simple, universal mechanic:&nbsp; higher dice.&nbsp; Success<BR>of a task is determined by the higher of weighted dice throws.<BR><BR>A task throw, in any game, is basically a way of determining the success<BR>of an attempt to overcome an obstacle.&nbsp; KB3 recognizes this by using an<BR>attempt roll and comparing the result to that of an obstacle roll--an<BR>attack roll compared to a defense roll.<BR><BR>No static target numbers are used.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Definition:&nbsp; Task Throw<BR>A Task Throw is the throw a player makes to attempt success on a task.<BR><BR>(Example:&nbsp; Piter attempts to pick a lock.&nbsp; 4D are thrown to determine<BR>success.)<BR><BR><BR><BR>Definition:&nbsp; Difficulty Throw<BR>A Difficulty Throw is the throw made against a player's Task Throw--used<BR>in determining success of the Task Throw.&nbsp; The Difficulty Throw replaces<BR>static target numbers in previous Traveller editions.<BR><BR>(Example:&nbsp; Piter's result on his 4D throw to pick the lock is a total of<BR>11.&nbsp; The GM now throws a Difficulty Throw for Piter's attempt, based on<BR>how easy or difficult it is for the lock to be picked.&nbsp; The GM throws<BR>2D.&nbsp; The result is 9.&nbsp; Piter picked the lock!)<BR><BR><BR><BR>Definition:&nbsp; Opposed Throw<BR>An Opposed Throw is a Difficulty Throw.&nbsp; A distinction is made in that<BR>an Opposed Throw refers to the Difficulty Throw made by another<BR>character--not for an inanimate object.&nbsp; The guard's roll in the example<BR>below is an Opposed Throw.<BR><BR>(Example:&nbsp; Once Piter opened the door, he saw a guard, and he attempts<BR>to defeat the soldier in hand-to-hand combat.&nbsp; Piter rolls 3D for his<BR>Brawling attack.&nbsp; The guard defends himself, rolling 2D for his Brawling<BR>defense.&nbsp; If Piter wins the toss, he will have landed a slug on the<BR>guard, doing damage with his fists.&nbsp; If the guard wins, the guard will<BR>have blocked Piter's mean right cross.)<BR><BR><BR><BR>Skills:<BR>Every Task Throw in the game is made based on a character's skills.<BR>Every Opposed Throw in the game is made based on a defending character's<BR>skills.&nbsp; Every Difficulty Throw in the game is made based on the<BR>Difficulty Chart (not on Skills).<BR><BR>Any skill from any edition of Traveller is acceptible.&nbsp; Expand upon<BR>these.&nbsp; Make up your own.<BR><BR>Skill definitions are interchangeable from any edition of Traveller<BR>(although skill levels may not be if taken from TNE or GT).<BR><BR>Use what is desirable in your game.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Definition:&nbsp; Default Skills<BR>Any time a character can attempt a Task Throw using a skill that<BR>requires no specialized training, that skill is considered a Default<BR>Skill.<BR><BR>Anyone can pick up a gun, point it, and squeeze the trigger (given their<BR>physiology will allow them to do so).&nbsp; That being may not be good at<BR>using the weapon, but he could surely operate it.&nbsp; For that reason, Gun<BR>Combat is a Default Skill.<BR><BR>Anyone can attempt to climb up a dirt slope.&nbsp; That being may not be a<BR>good climber, but he could certainly attempt the climb (given his<BR>physiology permits it).&nbsp; For that reason, Climbing is a Default Skill.<BR><BR>Swimming is something that most beings have to be taught to do.&nbsp; For<BR>that reason, Swimming is not a Default Skill.<BR><BR>Piloting a starship into jump requires high tech training.&nbsp; For that<BR>reason, Pilot is not a Default Skill.<BR><BR>Every Traveller character used under the KB3 system is considered as<BR>having every Default Skill in the game at level-0 expertise.&nbsp; There is<BR>no reason to write these skills on the character's sheet (unless the<BR>character has a Default Skill at a skill level higher than 0--then you'd<BR>want to record the character's expertise in that area).<BR><BR>Situations may occur in the game where previously un-thought-of Default<BR>Skills are appropriate:&nbsp; For instance, a character may need to make a<BR>Task Throw to lift something, but Lifting has never been defined as a<BR>skill in your game.&nbsp; When this happens, simply give the character the<BR>skill at level 0 expertise (by definition, he has the Default Skill<BR>already anyway).<BR><BR><BR><BR>Level-0 Skills:<BR>Level-0 Skills are similar to Default Skills, but a Level-0 Skill refers<BR>to minimal training and expertise in a non-Default Skill.<BR><BR>Sometimes a character gains a skill like Ship's Boat-0 (maybe because he<BR>has Pilot-1).&nbsp; Ship's Boat is not a Default Skill, but the charater<BR>gains a minimal amount of expertise in the skill because of his<BR>knowledge and training as a pilot.<BR><BR>Treat all Level-0 Skills exactly as you treat Default Skills (except<BR>that characters do not automatically get Level-0 Skills--they have to<BR>earn them in some manner).<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 15:23:12 -0800<BR>From: "tsykoduk" &lt;tsykoduk@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR><BR>IMESHO:<BR><BR>The Dune sequels are worth the slogging - I found that they got harder and<BR>harder to read thru until God Emperor ended - then came the last two that<BR>made it all worth it... &gt;)<BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>On Sun, 17 Dec 2000 eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>&gt; That describes me.&nbsp; I enjoyed Dune, well enough, but couldn't get<BR>&gt; into the sequels.&nbsp; It's been 30 years, maybe I should give them<BR>&gt; another try...but I'm afraid they'll be *far* down my list of things<BR>&gt; to read.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Curse this thread and the demands it will place on my reading time.&nbsp; I<BR>read Dune several years ago and should re-read it soon, but I've also<BR>owned the sequels since that time and never got into them.&nbsp; Now I'll end<BR>up trying to read them again.<BR><BR>&gt; Yes!&nbsp; I first read the Foundation trilogy in 1967.&nbsp; I was a big fan<BR>&gt; of Asimov prior to that through reading his popular science books<BR>&gt; and various short stories.<BR><BR>I just read this a couple of months ago, and enjoyed it greatly.&nbsp; I should<BR>have read it long ago, but bookstore shelves have always been so crowded<BR>with his post-trilogy Foundation books that I had no idea where to start.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 15:25:34 -0800<BR>From: "tsykoduk" &lt;tsykoduk@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Lab Ship Deck Plans<BR><BR>Anyone out there know of deck plans for a Lab Ship? I am going to be running<BR>a tourney at a local gaming club meeting and was thinking about using a Lab<BR>Ship - deck plans would make my life easier (not having to come up with them<BR>etc...)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 15:26:40 -0800<BR>From: "tsykoduk" &lt;tsykoduk@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Seas of LOX<BR><BR>Another question:<BR><BR>On an extrasolar object, what is the reality factor of seeing a sea of<BR>Liquid O2?<BR><BR>Thanks again!<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 10:35:23 +1100<BR>From: Phill Webb &lt;pwebbtrav@yarranet.net.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>Legate Legion wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Mostly because of the French.&nbsp; You can blame anything on the<BR>&gt; French as they are the root of all that is evil &amp; vile.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ObTrav:&nbsp; IMTU, the Zhodani are French.<BR><BR>Interesting. In my friends game French accents were used when speaking<BR>in Vilani.<BR><BR>Makes the Solomani cause seem quite attractive doesn't it?<BR><BR>Phill<BR>Read my FudgeT Notes at http://www.yarranet.net.au/phill/fudge/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3411<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-zd03.mx.aol.com (rly-zd03.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.227]) by air-zd02.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Sun, 17 Dec 2000 18:36:50 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-zd03.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Sun, 17 Dec 2000 18:36:01 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id SAA94799;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Sun, 17 Dec 2000 18:34:31 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Sun, 17 Dec 2000 18:34:23 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id SAA94753<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Sun, 17 Dec 2000 18:34:23 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 18:34:23 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012172334.SAA94753@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3411<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Sunday, December 17 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3412<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>(2) KB3 Traveller System (Playtest)<BR>Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>(3) KB3 Traveller System (Playtest)<BR>re: Seas of LOX<BR>Re: CLIMAX!&nbsp; Conclusion to the Traveller Adventure<BR>Re: CLIMAX!&nbsp; Conclusion to the Traveller Adventure<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>(4) KB3 Traveller System (Playtest)<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3402<BR>Re: Finnish and American RPGs<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR>Off topic: Play by Post Game<BR>Re: Finnish and American RPGs<BR>Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR>RE: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: Lab Ship Deck Plans<BR>Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>RE: AHHH! Sailor Moon!<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 17:37:33 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: (2) KB3 Traveller System (Playtest)<BR><BR>Now that all of the intrductory stuff is out of the way, here is the KB3<BR>task system (beta version)....<BR><BR><BR><BR>The TASK THROW....<BR>Whenever a character attempts a task in the game, he makes a Task<BR>Throw.&nbsp; The Task Throw is based on his skill.&nbsp; Every Task Throw is based<BR>on a skill.<BR><BR>***If the appropriate skill for the task attempt is a Level-0 Skill or a<BR>level-0 Default Skill, 1D is thrown.<BR><BR>***If the character has greater expertise with the skill being used, the<BR>skill level is used to add dice to the throw.<BR><BR>Example:&nbsp; Piter attempts to climb up a loose-dirt slope, but he doesn't<BR>have the Climbing skill.&nbsp; Climbing is a Default Skill, so, even though<BR>Climbing is not listed on his sheet, Piter is considered as having<BR>Climbing-0.&nbsp; Piter's player will throw 1D to attempt this task.<BR><BR>Example:&nbsp; Piter attempts to pick an electronic lock, and he has<BR>Intrusion-3.&nbsp; 4D will be thrown as his Task Throw.<BR><BR><BR><BR>The DIFFICULTY THROW....<BR>The Difficulty Throw is based on how hard it is to succeed on the task<BR>being attempted.&nbsp; Use the Difficulty Table to determine how many dice<BR>should be thrown on the Difficulty Throw.<BR><BR>Difficulty Table<BR>- --------------------------------------<BR>1D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Level 1 Difficulty&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Easy<BR>2D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Level 2 Difficulty&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Average<BR>3D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Level 3 Difficulty&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Difficult<BR>4D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Level 4 Difficulty&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Formidable<BR>5D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Level 5 Difficulty&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Staggering<BR>6D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Level 6 Difficulty&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Impossible<BR><BR><BR>Example:&nbsp; The GM determines that it is an Easy task to for Piter to<BR>climb up the loose-dirt slope.&nbsp; First, 1D is thrown for Piter's attempt<BR>to climb.&nbsp; Then, the GM makes the Difficulty Throw of 1D.&nbsp; The results<BR>are compared.&nbsp; If the throw for Piter is higher, Piter climbed the slope<BR>with no problem.&nbsp; If the GM's Difficulty Throw is higher, Piter did not<BR>succeed in his climb.<BR><BR>Example:&nbsp; Piter is attempting to pick the electronic lock.&nbsp; Due to his<BR>Intrusion-3 skill, 4D is thrown for Piter's success.&nbsp; The GM determines<BR>that the lock is an average, every day electronic lock with an Average<BR>Difficulty to be picked.&nbsp; The GM throws 2D, comparing the result to<BR>Piter's 4D throw.&nbsp; If the GM's throw is higher, Piter failed in picking<BR>the lock.&nbsp; If Piter's roll is higher, the electronic lock is opened.<BR><BR><BR>***OPPOSED THROWS<BR>When a character is attempting success against another character, the<BR>Difficulty Table is not used.&nbsp; Instead, the opposing character's skill<BR>is used for the Difficulty Throw.<BR><BR>Example:&nbsp; Piter picks the lock and opens the door, seeing a guard<BR>standing there.&nbsp; Hand to Hand combat ensues.&nbsp; Piter has Brawling-2, so<BR>3D are thrown for his attack.&nbsp; Because the guard had Brawling-1, the GM<BR>throws 2D in the guard's defense.&nbsp; If Piter's roll is higher, Piter<BR>landed a blow and can roll damage on the guard.&nbsp; If the guard's roll is<BR>higher, Piter's attack has been blocked.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 17:47:26 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>Phill Webb wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Legate Legion wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Mostly because of the French.&nbsp; You can blame anything on the<BR>&gt; &gt; French as they are the root of all that is evil &amp; vile.<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ObTrav:&nbsp; IMTU, the Zhodani are French.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Interesting. In my friends game French accents were used when speaking<BR>&gt; in Vilani.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Makes the Solomani cause seem quite attractive doesn't it?<BR><BR>Meanwhile, in a recent T:2K campaign, our referee referred to the French<BR>as "the ancestral foe."<BR><BR>It would appear that many gamers (and other right-thinking folk) have a<BR>deep contempt for the Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys.<BR><BR>http://www.nationalreview.com/document/document113000.shtml<BR><BR>- -- <BR>AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 18:11:32 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: (3) KB3 Traveller System (Playtest)<BR><BR>The E-DIE....<BR>One of the die used in a Task Throw and a Difficulty Throw should be of<BR>a different color or size.&nbsp; I use a die with standard arabic numbers on<BR>it, while all others used on a throw have standard "spot" numbers.&nbsp; (If<BR>only one die is throw, only the E-Die is used.)<BR><BR>This is the Event Die...the Explosion Die.&nbsp; It may explode your<BR>total--or it may make the total of your throw implode.&nbsp; It will allow<BR>unexperienced characters to achieve success on tasks they would<BR>otherwise have no hope of succeeding in.&nbsp; And, it will throw the supreme<BR>balancer of fate against extremely skilled, over confident characters.<BR><BR><BR>***When a "6" turns up on the E-Die, double every even numbered die on<BR>the table.<BR><BR>(Speed-Play Tip:&nbsp; Count all even numbered dice from a throw first,<BR>double this amount, then add any odd numbered dice to the total.)<BR><BR><BR>***When a "1" turns up on the E-Die, subtract every odd numbered die on<BR>the table.<BR><BR>(Speed-Play Tip:&nbsp; Don't waste time with subtraction.&nbsp; Simply remove all<BR>odd numbered die from the throw, then add up the even numbered ones.)<BR><BR><BR>Note:&nbsp; Only one throw is made (whether it be a Task Throw or a<BR>Difficulty Throw).&nbsp; If a 6 occurs on the E-Die, simply double all even<BR>numbered dice rolled from the toss.&nbsp; If a 1 turns up on the E-Die,<BR>simply pull all odd numbered dice off the table.&nbsp; If the E-Die is any<BR>other number, count it normally towards the total of the throw.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 16:15:27 -0800<BR>From: "Bruce Macintosh" &lt;bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net&gt;<BR>Subject: re: Seas of LOX<BR><BR>&gt;Another question:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;On an extrasolar object, what is the reality factor of seeing a sea of<BR>&gt;Liquid O2?<BR><BR>Moderately unlikely unless something has sequestered all the hydrogen<BR>on a planet; a place cold enough for liquid O2 that has any hydrogen at all<BR>will end up with all the O2 locked up in water ice. Oxygen by itself in general<BR>is pretty unlikely stuff since it's so reactive - the Earth has a surplus only<BR>because<BR>of the presence of life.<BR><BR>Bruce<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 15:44:30 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: CLIMAX!&nbsp; Conclusion to the Traveller Adventure<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Be careful about doing that. Word uses special non-ascii characters for<BR>&gt;&gt; right &amp; left single &amp; double quotes, for ellipsis (...) and for some<BR>&gt;&gt; types of dash.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Have you had a problem--all of my Traveller Adventure posts have been<BR>&gt; cut-n-pasted from Word.<BR><BR>Yes, that's why I mentioned it. :-)<BR><BR> is not ^<BR> is not &lt;<BR> is not ...<BR> is not `<BR> is not '<BR> is not "<BR> is not "<BR> is not -<BR> is not --<BR> is not ~<BR> is not &gt;<BR>"&nbsp;" is not " "<BR><BR>All of the above are "helpful" substitions Word will make. :-(<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 15:57:39 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: CLIMAX!&nbsp; Conclusion to the Traveller Adventure<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; On 12/17/00 at 05:19 AM,&nbsp; shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;In mail you write:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Naw...I wouldn't send an attachment to the list.&nbsp; I'll just post them<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; normally in plain text, e-mail format.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Cut-n-paste from the Word doc.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Be careful about doing that. Word uses special non-ascii characters<BR>&gt;&gt;for right &amp; left single &amp; double quotes, for ellipsis (...) and for<BR>&gt;&gt;some types of dash. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;The presence of those characters causes the list software to<BR>&gt;&gt;convert the post to Mime quoted printable which means that for<BR>&gt;&gt;folks like me they come out as =xx where xx is the hex value of the<BR>&gt;&gt;character. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; And in some cases, with my mail client anyway, results in making large <BR>&gt; sections of text unreadable. Literally unreadable.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Set up a "generic text printer" in windows, and set it to print to<BR>&gt;&gt;a file. Then print the document using that printer, and import<BR>&gt;&gt;*that* file into your message. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; How about, just saving as DOS text mode from Word? Wouldn't that convert all <BR>&gt; those funky characters back to plain ASCII?<BR><BR>I wasn't sure Word would do that, and I rather suspect that doing that<BR>won't translate 8-bit characters to the "proper" 7-bit equivalents. <BR><BR>And I've seen pretty much the exact instructions I gave above being<BR>given to folks before to get around this problem.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 16:00:48 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Kenji, take your damn drug-drug now.&nbsp; That person had been slamming<BR>&gt; America &amp; Americans for too long.<BR><BR>No more (or less) than you've been slamming Finland.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 16:03:12 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Perhaps I should come and visit the States someday. It seems that I<BR>&gt;&gt;haven't fully grasped its diversity, which might explain the distrust for <BR>&gt;&gt;the government : the place is simply too big. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; You should.&nbsp; If nothing else, flying across the country helps to understand<BR>&gt; just how *big* this place is.&nbsp; I will formally extend an invitation to any<BR>&gt; TMLers who visit the Bay Area to visit us, and get the whole tour.<BR><BR>I recall (back in the late fifties) travelling from Spokane to NYC and<BR>back by *train*. We are talking a multi day trip each way. <BR><BR>Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it about as far from London to NYC<BR>as it is from NYC to San Francisco?<BR><BR>For that matter, just driving from Spokane to Portland (as we did a<BR>year or so back to get some items I'd inherited from the "old family<BR>house" to my apartment), we were able to drive for an hour or more and<BR>seen nothing but other cars and sagebrush scrubland. And the farmlands<BR>weren't a lot different. You'd see the occasional house or farm<BR>building, but otherwise just lots and lots of not much. :-)<BR><BR>Heck, we spent *hours* at highway speed inside each *state*. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 18:26:35 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: (4) KB3 Traveller System (Playtest)<BR><BR>Task Throw PROCEDURE....<BR>The Task Throw is ALWAYS made first.&nbsp; The Difficulty Throw is ALWAYS<BR>made second.<BR><BR>Example:&nbsp; "Piter's just opened the door, Bob, and the guard has turned<BR>to look at you.&nbsp; What do you want Piter to do?"----------"I want him to<BR>attack that damn guard before he can raise an alarm or pull a<BR>weapon!"----------"OK, fine.&nbsp; Make your Brawling attack roll..."<BR><BR>Piter attempts to climb a dirt slope, then the GM rolls to see how<BR>difficult it was for him.&nbsp; Piter moves to pick the electronic lock, then<BR>the GM rolls to see if Piter was successful.&nbsp; Piter makes a Brawling<BR>attack, then the guard defends himself.<BR><BR>The aggressor--the attack throw--the Task Throw is always first.&nbsp; The<BR>obstacle--the defense roll--the Difficulty Throw is always immediately<BR>second.<BR><BR><BR>***My players are used to knowing what number they have to beat BEFORE<BR>they roll...shouldn't a character have an idea of how hard a task is<BR>before he attempts it?<BR><BR>Sure.&nbsp; Except, under the KB3 system, your players will not know EXACTLY<BR>what they need to roll.&nbsp; (This is part of the fun of the KB3 system.&nbsp; In<BR>most situations in real life, people cannot guage exactly what is<BR>required for success--although they may have an idea.&nbsp; Keep reading.)<BR><BR>In many Traveller situations, characters will have an idea of what it<BR>will take to succeed on a task.&nbsp; At the GM's discretion, a player can be<BR>told what his character is up against (he's told how many dice will be<BR>rolled for the Difficulty Throw, not the exact target number).&nbsp; When a<BR>character has a good idea of the difficulty of the task at hand, let the<BR>player know what the Difficulty Level is.<BR><BR>Example:&nbsp; Piter can look at that dirt slope and guage how hard it would<BR>be to climb.&nbsp; The GM will tell him it is an Easy (1D) climb.<BR><BR>Example:&nbsp; Piter may be able to look at the electronic lock and guess how<BR>hard it is to pick.&nbsp; The GM allows Piter a Task Throw on his Intrusion<BR>skill to figure out hard it will likely be to complete the task.&nbsp; If<BR>Piter wins on this information roll, the GM will tell him that the<BR>difficulty to pick the lock is Average (2D).&nbsp; If Piter looses the<BR>information throw, he'll have to pick the lock blind--if he still wants<BR>to pick it.<BR><BR>Example:&nbsp; There is no way for Piter to know exactly how skilled the<BR>guard is in hand-to-hand fighting.&nbsp; The GM refuses to give the player<BR>any indication of what Piter will be up against if Piter makes a<BR>Brawling strike.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 19:36:37 EST<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3402<BR><BR>&gt; PS: is it true that the US government can ban US citizens from visiting <BR>&gt; certain<BR>&gt;&nbsp; foriegn countries?<BR><BR>It tries, but a determined tourist can make it. Repercussions vary.<BR><BR>LKW<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 16:36:19 -0800<BR>From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Finnish and American RPGs<BR><BR>From: James Jensen &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Not to offend anyone, but here's my feelings:<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;American Culture rules because it's the best.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;I don't think so, but whatever.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;It's understandable that some will feel this way. Everyone tends to think<BR>that their native culture is the best.<BR>&gt;<BR>Nah.&nbsp; I was born in America.&nbsp; I'm only part Japanese and I don't know my<BR>birth family.&nbsp; I didn't even go to Japan until I was an adult.&nbsp; But I like<BR>it much better there.<BR><BR>&gt;In conclusion, it's no more right or wrong for someone to say "I'm proud to<BR>be an American" as to say "I'm proud to be Finnish", or "I'm proud to be<BR>Japanese", etc.<BR>&gt;<BR>It's not wrong to be proud of being anything.&nbsp; But it's kind of arrogant to<BR>say that *any* culture "rules" or is "the best".&nbsp; I know lots of people who<BR>have left America for good and am preparing to do the same.&nbsp; No matter how<BR>great a culture is, someone will be happier elsewhere, and no matter how<BR>many people dislike a culture, some people will be happy there.<BR><BR>I'm sure lots of people are happy living in France.&nbsp; :p<BR><BR>Kiri-chan yori<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 16:11:22 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; I guess I'm living in an alternate universe version of the US then.&nbsp; I <BR>&gt; know a number of folks with no medical insurance (primarily temp <BR>&gt; workers) and even more with really pathetic insurance (like myself). <BR>&gt; Even among members of the lower half of the middle class, much <BR>&gt; of HMO style managed care is a joke where the doctors cut <BR>&gt; corners at ever opportunity in an effort to reduce costs.&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Sure, if you're making $35K/year and up working for a large <BR>&gt; company you're probably getting care almost as good as someone <BR>&gt; making $200K/year, however, there are all those folks making less <BR>&gt; than that.&nbsp; The most recent figure I've seen is that 10-15% of <BR>&gt; Americans have no health insurance at all.<BR><BR>Depends on where you live. I am currently paying $200+/month for the<BR>*same* HMO I got for *free* while I qualified as "poor".<BR><BR>And on top of that, I have to pay higher fees for office visits and<BR>prescriptions. <BR><BR>Then again, the Oregon Health Plan is rather different than what most<BR>states do (or more often *don't* do).<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; If you're upper middle class or better you have fine heathcare, if you <BR>&gt; are destitute you have OK medical care (from reports, care <BR>&gt; medicare is notably inferior to most other types of healthcare.&nbsp; <BR>&gt; There are far more problems than the mere lack of a private room), <BR>&gt; and if you are someone making between $8K and $15 K/year you <BR>&gt; likely have either no heath care or really bad heath care.<BR><BR>Not sure about that one, but I believe the Orgegon Health Plan deals<BR>with that too. It has two main goals. First to make sure that the poor<BR>get adequate care *including* preventive care. Second, to keep the<BR>middle class folks from losing their savinf\gs, house, etc in case of<BR>"catastrophic illness". <BR><BR>Of course, since it didn't set well with the ideologies of many in DC,<BR>we almost didn't get allowed to set the system up. Seems it was<BR>contrary to large batches of ruules and regulations. Of course, many of<BR>those rules and regulations are *obstructing* health care in the guise<BR>of "improving" it. So naturally the folks responsible didn't want to<BR>let us out from under them.<BR><BR>But we made it. And so far, we are being allowed to continue.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 16:22:21 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; In-Reply-To: &lt;3.0.5.16.20001216213104.23ffac98@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Greetings dear hearts.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; In the UK, if you are in the military you were (certainly 1980s when I <BR>&gt; was) required to request permission to visit certain countries. I did, got <BR>&gt; permission... and had a very interesting interview on return which I am <BR>&gt; not permitted to talk about :-)<BR><BR>I've met a few people who had to file "contact reports" upon meeting<BR>some types/classes of people. :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 16:29:36 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; [Important Aside:<BR>&gt;&gt; while you were away we had a couple of very big and very nasty flame-wars<BR>&gt;&gt; about whether or not the government in Heinlein's book 'Starship Troopers'<BR>&gt;&gt; is fascist.&nbsp; Please don't accidentally say anything to get that one started<BR>&gt;&gt; up again!]<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Well....(can't resist)...I haven't read the book, but from the movie, there <BR>&gt; is<BR>&gt; no doubt that the government is fascist...I don't see how anyone could look <BR>&gt; at<BR>&gt; that (awful) movie otherwise.<BR><BR>Well, fascist/not-fascist arguments aside, I *cringed* at some of the<BR>scenes in the "commercials". Letting kids play tug of war with a combat<BR>rifle? AGGHHH!<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 18:50:42 -0600<BR>From: "Shimmergloom" &lt;dragon@mhtc.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Off topic: Play by Post Game<BR><BR>Hello all.&nbsp; I am lookign for players for an online game.&nbsp; It is play by post<BR>on a message board.&nbsp; There are two games running.&nbsp; One is an AD&amp;D game set<BR>in a slightly modified forgotten realms.&nbsp; The other is a home grown that is<BR>curretly set in modern times, but might change to another setting.<BR><BR>http://www.rainsrealm.f2s.com/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi<BR><BR>A link can be found there to email the GM's of both games for more details.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 18:56:49 -0600<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Finnish and American RPGs<BR><BR>&gt; It's not wrong to be proud of being anything.&nbsp; But it's kind of arrogant<BR>to<BR>&gt; say that *any* culture "rules" or is "the best".&nbsp; I know lots of people<BR>who<BR>&gt; have left America for good and am preparing to do the same.&nbsp; No matter how<BR>&gt; great a culture is, someone will be happier elsewhere, and no matter how<BR>&gt; many people dislike a culture, some people will be happy there.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I'm sure lots of people are happy living in France.&nbsp; :p<BR><BR>Agreed. It's extremely doubtful that I'll ever stop believing that America's<BR>the best, but that's my opinion and I don't have to right or the ability to<BR>force it upon you or anyone else, and it was never my intention to do so.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>http://members.nbci.com/cheebzero/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 16:32:40 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2.&nbsp; Citizen of the Galaxy<BR><BR>This is worth reading for a different take on things like "Free<BR>Traders" and cultural differences between interstellar "states". <BR><BR>Also, pay attention during the weapons training sequences on the Sisu.<BR>I think that's a great way to explain why gunner "skill" is important<BR>even *with* a decent computer in the loop. <BR><BR>&gt; Other, older, or lesser known, authors worth looking for are Edgar<BR>&gt; Pangborn, John Brunner, L. Sprauge de Camp, Venor Vinge, Edmund<BR>&gt; Hamilton, Gorden Dickson and George O Smith.&nbsp; I also remember Andre<BR>&gt; Norton and Allen?&nbsp; Norse with a lot of pleasure from my junior high<BR>&gt; days of the early sixties. <BR><BR>Alan E. Nourse. Gordon R. Dickson, and I *think* Hamilton's first name<BR>was "Edmond" but I won't swear to it. :-)<BR><BR>BTW, one of Nourse's books ("Trouble on Titan"?) has a lovely concept.<BR>A jet aircraft flying thru the methane atmosphere and using oxygen as<BR>"fuel". (ie the engine is taking in the methane from the atmosphere and<BR>injecting oxygen to burn with it. :-)<BR><BR>It'd work too. <BR><BR>Another book "Scavengers in Space" not only gets the feel for distances<BR>in the Belt much better than most books set there, it has a lovely plot<BR>involving what amounts to an Ancient artifact. You could steal it<BR>quite easily for a Traveller game.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:27:55 -0500<BR>From: "Chris Seamans" &lt;semo@pil.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>Eris wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;Now, for something more serioius!&nbsp; I say it's spelled barbecue, is a<BR>&gt;&gt;sauce/marinade/style of cooking, not a dish made of spicy loose meat<BR>served<BR>&gt;&gt;on a bun, includes tomatoes *and* mustard, is both sweet, tart, and hot,<BR>and<BR>&gt;&gt;would be a perfect way of serving leg of K'kree!<BR><BR>Daniel wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Yes but what kind of sauce/marinade/style of cooking, a Carolina style pig<BR>&gt;picken with a vinagar base, or grilled with a Georgia mustard based sauce<BR>or<BR>&gt;Tennessee hickory smoked with a tomato based sauce or Texas brisket style<BR>&gt;with sausage and beans?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Say how about K'kree chilli, or chops done like Cuban pork or perhaps that<BR>&gt;leg done like Greek leg of lamb on a bed of saffron rice or even<BR>&gt;SHISH-K-BOBed with couscous, humus,&nbsp; tabouli and pita bread?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Dan who just got over the flu where by he lost 10 pounds and is currently<BR>&gt;HUNGRY.&nbsp; Going to now stuff something into his cake hole.&nbsp; Bye.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Oh you evil bastards! The pair of you almost invented a new type of<BR>keyboard kill, not related to mirth. I am actually beginning to salivate. I<BR>don't even like barbecue, and yet your vivid descriptions have me saying<BR>"Mmmmmmmm... Leg of K'Kree" and "Mmmmmmm... Brisket" in my best Homer<BR>Simpson imitation.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Then again, that could be because I'm really hungry.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:37:06 -0500<BR>From: Christopher Thrash &lt;thrash@io.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Lab Ship Deck Plans<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 15:25:34 -0800<BR>&gt;From: "tsykoduk" &lt;tsykoduk@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Lab Ship Deck Plans<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Anyone out there know of deck plans for a Lab Ship? I am going to be running<BR>&gt;a tourney at a local gaming club meeting and was thinking about using a Lab<BR>&gt;Ship - deck plans would make my life easier (not having to come up with them<BR>&gt;etc...)<BR><BR>Double Adventure 2, "Death Station," pp. 12-13. Should be reprinted in the<BR>next volume from Far Futures.<BR><BR>"Laboratory Ship," Seeker #1021.<BR><BR>Deck plans for it may also be included in GURPS Traveller: Starships, but<BR>that won't be out for a while yet.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 18:44:27 -0700<BR>From: "J. Paul Sanders" &lt;timmon@primenet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>At 05:47 PM 12/17/00 -0600, you wrote:<BR>&gt;Phill Webb wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Legate Legion wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Mostly because of the French.&nbsp; You can blame anything on the<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; French as they are the root of all that is evil &amp; vile.<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ObTrav:&nbsp; IMTU, the Zhodani are French.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Interesting. In my friends game French accents were used when speaking<BR>&gt;&gt; in Vilani.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Makes the Solomani cause seem quite attractive doesn't it?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Meanwhile, in a recent T:2K campaign, our referee referred to the French<BR>&gt;as "the ancestral foe."<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;It would appear that many gamers (and other right-thinking folk) have a<BR>&gt;deep contempt for the Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys.<BR><BR>Apparently the Keith's don't if the prominent French role in 2300AD and<BR>Andrew's FFL novels (and phone conversations) are any indication... :)<BR><BR>'Course, they (like me) are of Scottish extraction - guess that shows you<BR>how one people's 'ancient enemy' can be another peoples 'ancient ally.'<BR><BR>Just my .02 cent contribution to the semi-annual jingoistic culture thread.<BR><BR>Paul<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 17:38:13<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: AHHH! Sailor Moon!<BR><BR>At 02:37 PM 12/17/2000 -0600, you wrote:<BR>&gt;On 12/17/00 at 10:42 AM,&nbsp; "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>said:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;Keith Moon, Sailor Moon -- what's the connection?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Arrgh!&nbsp; I'm now stuck with images of the Sailor Scouts defeating<BR>&gt;&gt;the monster of the day, and then smashing their insturments! -- <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Even scarier, picture Tuxedo Mask as Keith Moon...uh, would that make<BR>Sailor &gt;Moon, Mick Jagger?&nbsp; &lt;shudder!&gt;<BR><BR>Nah.. Pamela DeBarre.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 17:47:10<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>At 04:03 PM 12/17/2000 PST, you wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it about as far from London to NYC<BR>&gt;as it is from NYC to San Francisco?<BR><BR>London/NYC 3,471 miles (5,585km)&nbsp; SF/NYC 2,582 miles (4,156 km)<BR><BR>&gt;For that matter, just driving from Spokane to Portland (as we did a<BR>&gt;year or so back to get some items I'd inherited from the "old family<BR>&gt;house" to my apartment), we were able to drive for an hour or more and<BR>&gt;seen nothing but other cars and sagebrush scrubland. And the farmlands<BR>&gt;weren't a lot different. You'd see the occasional house or farm<BR>&gt;building, but otherwise just lots and lots of not much. :-)<BR><BR>There are two ways to drive from the Bay Area to Los Angeles.&nbsp; The Endless<BR>Flats of 5, or the Way of 101, described by Craig as "hundreds of miles of<BR>desolation punctuated by tacky fruit stands."<BR><BR>(Yes, Craig, I actually remember "Franz Arret goes to college.")<BR><BR>Either method is a minimum seven hour drive.&nbsp; And that only covers about<BR>half the length of the state.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3412<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-xb01.mx.aol.com (rly-xb01.mail.aol.com [172.20.105.102]) by air-xb04.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:51:49 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-xb01.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:51:30 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id UAA06824;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:50:50 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:50:05 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id UAA06764<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:50:05 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:50:05 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012180150.UAA06764@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3412<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Sunday, December 17 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3413<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>(5) KB3 Traveller System (Playtest)<BR>Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: Seas of LOX<BR>(6) KB3 Traveller System (Playtest)<BR>Damn, it's a big country! (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>RE: Seas of LOX<BR>RE: Lab Ship Deck Plans<BR>Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Damn, it's a big country! (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Milieu 0 TNS<BR>Cultural Imperialism (torn both from Re: Naming laws AND Re: Finnish and American RPGs!)<BR>Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>(7) Summary - KB3 Traveller System (Playtest)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 19:50:10 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: (5) KB3 Traveller System (Playtest)<BR><BR>MEASURING THE SUCCESS of the Task Throw....<BR>A Task Throw is successful if the total rolled is higher than that of<BR>the Difficulty Throw.&nbsp; But, the one throw made can be measured for more<BR>detailed success under the KB3 system.<BR><BR>The ideal Task Throw is one that just barely succeeds in being higher<BR>than the Difficulty Throw.&nbsp; Players are looking for that "sweet spot".<BR>They want to roll high to succeed, but not that high.&nbsp; They don't want<BR>to roll so high that they hurt the outcome of their roll by achieving<BR>MARGINAL SUCCESS.<BR><BR>Each Skill is governed by one of the character's Stats.<BR><BR>Example:&nbsp; Climbing is governed by Dex, End, or Str.&nbsp; Intrusion is<BR>governed by either Dex or Int.&nbsp; Brawling is governed by Dex or Str.<BR><BR>Once a Task Throw is made, and it is successful (because the throw beat<BR>the Difficulty Throw), compare the total of the Task Throw to the Stat<BR>governing the Skill used.&nbsp; (If more than one Stat governs the skill, the<BR>GM will pick which Stat is most appropriate.)<BR><BR><BR><BR>Grade the success of a Task Throw using these guidelines....<BR><BR>***If the Task Throw is successful, and the total rolled is less than or<BR>equal to the governing Stat, the character has achieved GREATER SUCCESS.<BR><BR>***If the Task Throw is successful, and the total rolled is greater than<BR>the governing Stat (but less than or equal to twice the governing Stat),<BR>the character has achieved SUCCESS.<BR><BR>***If the Task Throw is successful, and the total rolled is greater than<BR>twice the governing Stat, MARGINAL SUCCESS has been achieved.<BR><BR>***If the Task Throw is not successful, and the total rolled misses the<BR>total of the Difficulty Throw by an amount less than the governing Stat,<BR>FAILURE has occurred.<BR><BR>***If the Task Throw is not successful, and the total rolled misses the<BR>total of the Difficulty Throw by an amount more than the governing Stat,<BR>GREATER FAILURE has occurred.<BR><BR>***If, for some reason (due to the E-Die or die modifiers), the total of<BR>the Task Throw is 0 or less, a MISHAP has occurred.<BR><BR><BR><BR>The Task Throw is ONE roll of the dice.&nbsp; All of these outcomes are<BR>guaged with ONE roll.&nbsp; Here are examples of various Task Throws that may<BR>be made for the character Piter.&nbsp; (Piter is a straight average<BR>character--every Stat is 7.&nbsp; His skills, used in the examples below,<BR>are:&nbsp; Climbing-0 (Default Skill);&nbsp; Intrusion-3;&nbsp; Brawling-2.)<BR><BR>Example:&nbsp; Piter climbs the dirt slope.&nbsp; It's an Easy task.&nbsp; Piter rolls<BR>a 5.&nbsp; The GM rolls a 3.&nbsp; Piter's total of 5 is lower than the skill's<BR>governing Stat.&nbsp; Piter has achieved GREATER SUCCESS.<BR><BR>Example:&nbsp; Piter fights the guard in hand-to-hand combat.&nbsp; Piter rolls an<BR>11.&nbsp; The guard rolls a 9.&nbsp; Piter hit the guard, achieving SUCCESS.<BR><BR>Example:&nbsp; Piter attempts to pick the electronic lock.&nbsp; He rolls 4D, with<BR>a "6" occurring on the E-Die.&nbsp; He doubles all even die, and his total<BR>for the throw is 24.&nbsp; The GM rolls the Difficulty Throw for the<BR>attempt--his total is 9.&nbsp; Piter achieves MARGINAL SUCCESS because his<BR>total is greater than 14 (double his governing Stat).<BR><BR>Example:&nbsp; On round two, Piter swings again at the guard.&nbsp; He rolls a<BR>total of 4.&nbsp; The guard rolls his Opposed Roll, obtaining a total of 5.<BR>Piter's swing was blocked, and his Task Throw is a FAILURE.<BR><BR>Example:&nbsp; Piter then runs from the guard, loosing him in the twisting<BR>corridors.&nbsp; Another electronic lock prevents his entry into a closet.<BR>With the guard not in sight, Piter attempts to pick this lock using his<BR>Intrusion skill.&nbsp; He rolls a total of 8.&nbsp; On the Difficulty Throw, the<BR>GM throws a "6" on the E-Die, ending up with a total of 17.&nbsp; Piter's<BR>roll is more than 7 less than the Difficulty Throw.&nbsp; Piter's attempt on<BR>the lock has resulted in GREATER FAILURE, and not only was he unable to<BR>pick the lock, but the intrusion alarm has begun to sound.<BR><BR>Example:&nbsp; The dirt slope is becoming steeper, and the GM calls for Piter<BR>to roll a second climbing throw to allow him to transverse the next<BR>section of the climb.&nbsp; Piter throws a "1" on his E-Die.&nbsp; Since it's the<BR>only die he has (Default Skill), it is wiped off the board, and Piter<BR>has a 0 total.&nbsp; A fumble has occured.&nbsp; The Task Throw has resulted in a<BR>MISHAP.&nbsp; Piter looses his grip and slides down the slope, and the GM<BR>applies 1D of damage from the fall.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Definition:&nbsp; Greater Success<BR>Greater Success indicates the result of the Task Throw is "greater than<BR>normal".&nbsp; In a combat situation, this could mean an extra die is applied<BR>to damage, a move (of the player's choice) is made on the hit location<BR>chart, or that damage is placed randomly on the target (instead of<BR>allowing the target to subtract damage from his Stats normally).<BR><BR>In a non-combat situation, Greater Success means that some other<BR>beneficial perk came out of the task attempt:&nbsp; maybe time to perform the<BR>task is halved when time is important;&nbsp; or maybe an important piece of<BR>information is obtained when speaking with an NPC.<BR><BR>I allow players to pick one of the "benefits" I've listed above in a<BR>combat situation, and I usually try to give the PCs something "extra" in<BR>non-combat situations.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Definition:&nbsp; Success<BR>Success is normal, standard, regular, every day success.&nbsp; Nothing is<BR>"added" to the result of the success.&nbsp; Nothing is "taken away".<BR><BR><BR><BR>Definition:&nbsp; Marginal Success<BR>Marginal Success means that the character "barely" succeeded.&nbsp; In a<BR>combat situation, this could mean that his attack, although hit his<BR>target, hit a more heavily armored area, or that damage is reduced by<BR>one die--or even halved.<BR><BR>In a non-combat situation, Marginal Success could mean that the time to<BR>do the task is doubled even though the task is successful--when time is<BR>important to the PCs.&nbsp; Or, it could mean that an alarm was tripped even<BR>though the lock was picked.&nbsp; Or, the GM may withold information an NPC<BR>is giving them--giving them about half of what a normal success would<BR>give them.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Definition:&nbsp; Failure<BR>Failure is plain-jane old failure, with nothing extra attached to it.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Definition:&nbsp; Greater Failure<BR>Greater Failure means that:&nbsp; not only did the character fail at the<BR>task, but he failed in such a way that it hurt him more than normal.<BR>Maybe his weapon jammed while firing it.&nbsp; Maybe the lock he was picking<BR>sent a silent alarm to the 50 man cadre of troops down the hall.&nbsp; Maybe<BR>twisting that screw to take the access plate off of the broken drive<BR>stripped out as the character twisted it.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Definition:&nbsp; Mishap<BR>A Mishap is a fumble.&nbsp; The worst thing that could possibly happen at<BR>that moment happened.&nbsp; Maybe, as the character pulled his weapon off his<BR>back to shoot at the enemy, his hair trigger went off, calling for an<BR>attack roll on one of the character's comrades.&nbsp; Maybe the character<BR>slipped on the ledge and is in peril of falling into the vat of liquid<BR>oxygen.&nbsp; Maybe the character repairing the hoverjeep blew all the seals,<BR>and the jeep is immobilized until a new drive is installed.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Note:&nbsp; With any of these "results", let you imagination run wild.&nbsp; It's<BR>a ROLE PLAYING GAME!&nbsp; Have fun with it!<BR><BR><BR><BR>HIGH level Skill with LOW Difficulty....<BR>Sometimes, a character will have a level 5 skill and be attempting an<BR>Easy (1D) throw.&nbsp; Marginal Success is likely in such an occurrence.<BR><BR>Players are not required to use all of their bonuses on ANY Task Throw.<BR>Higher Skill gives a character more CHOICE.&nbsp; The player may pick how<BR>many dice he wants to use.<BR><BR>But, remember, he the Task Throw is not higher than the Difficulty<BR>Throw, there is no success.&nbsp; (And, don't forget about the E-Die.)<BR><BR><BR><BR>OPTIONAL RULE....<BR>Optionally, players may add a character's Skill level to the governing<BR>Stat when measuring success.&nbsp; This adds an additional calculation that<BR>has to be made (which is why it is an optional rule), but characters<BR>with high skill levels retain a greater range in which to achieve<BR>Greater Success.<BR><BR>If a player does not use all of his dice on a throw (as mentioned<BR>immediately above), I would reduce the bonus given to the governing<BR>Stat.<BR><BR>Also remember that damage will reduce a character's Str, End, and Dex.<BR>When this happens, the Stat is reduced for Task Throw measuring purposes<BR>too.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:59:51 -0500<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>On Sun, 17 Dec 2000 18:34:23 -0500 (EST), "Daniel Phelps"<BR>&lt;phelpsd@gate.net&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Was written:<BR><BR>&gt;Say how about K'kree chilli, or chops done like Cuban pork or perhaps that<BR>&gt;leg done like Greek leg of lamb on a bed of saffron rice or even<BR>&gt;SHISH-K-BOBed with couscous, humus,&nbsp; tabouli and pita bread?<BR><BR>Hmmm... Inspirations from the Japanese take-out menu:<BR><BR>K'kree katsu.<BR>K'kree negimayaki<BR>K'kree teriyaki<BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>(Ask me via email about the ILink message network!)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 17:43:31 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Seas of LOX<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Another question:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; On an extrasolar object, what is the reality factor of seeing a sea of<BR>&gt; Liquid O2?<BR><BR>Free oxygen *won't* exist unless some sort of biological process<BR>created it. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:11:02 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: (6) KB3 Traveller System (Playtest)<BR><BR>MEASURING THE SUCCESS of a Difficulty Throw....<BR>Typically, you will not "measure the success" of a Difficulty Throw the<BR>way you do a Task Throw.&nbsp; The E-Die applies to all Difficulty Throws,<BR>but you cannot obtain Greater Success, Marginal Success, Failure...etc.<BR>with a Difficulty Throw.<BR><BR>You should "measure the success" of an Opposed Throw, though.<BR>(Remember, Opposed Throws are Difficulty Throws made by other<BR>characters, where as the Difficulty Throw is thrown in all other<BR>situations.)<BR><BR>Example:&nbsp; Piter is attempting to climb a dirt slope.&nbsp; He makes a Task<BR>Throw based on his Climbing Skill, and this success of this throw is<BR>measured.&nbsp; The GM will make a Difficulty Throw based on the difficulty<BR>of the climb, but the GM's throw is not subject to being "measured".<BR><BR>Example:&nbsp; Piter is attempting to use his Intrusion skill to pick an<BR>electronic lock.&nbsp; Piter's Intrusion Task Throw is made and is subject to<BR>"measuring".&nbsp; The GM's Difficulty Throw is not.<BR><BR>Example:&nbsp; Piter is in a hand-to-hand fight with a guard.&nbsp; Piter's attack<BR>throw is his Task Throw, based on his Brawling skill.&nbsp; Piter's attack is<BR>measured.&nbsp; The GM throws an Opposed Throw, based on the guard's Brawling<BR>skill, in defense of the guard.&nbsp; In this instance, the guard's Opposed<BR>Throw (which is a Difficulty Throw) is measured.<BR><BR><BR><BR>***How would I measure an Opposed Throw?<BR>You'd do it the same way you measure a regular Task Throw.<BR><BR>Example:&nbsp; Piter attacks the guard, and Piter makes a Brawling Task<BR>Throw.&nbsp; The guard defends himself, making an Opposed Throw.&nbsp; The guard<BR>wins the toss, and the total of the Opposed Throw is less than the<BR>governing Stat of the guard's Brawling skill.&nbsp; The guard has achieved<BR>GREATER SUCCESS with his block, and the GM governs that 1D of damage<BR>(equal to the guard's Brawling skill level) is applied to Piter--he is<BR>hurt from the guard's block!<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 21:10:51 -0500<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Damn, it's a big country! (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>On Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:50:05 -0500 (EST), shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard<BR>Erickson) wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;I recall (back in the late fifties) travelling from Spokane to NYC and<BR>&gt;back by *train*. We are talking a multi day trip each way. <BR><BR>Six days, changing trains in Chicago.<BR><BR>&gt;Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it about as far from London to NYC<BR>&gt;as it is from NYC to San Francisco?<BR><BR>NYC-London is about 500 miles farther.&nbsp; NYC to SF is equal to London to<BR>Baghdad.<BR><BR>&gt;For that matter, just driving from Spokane to Portland (as we did a<BR>&gt;year or so back to get some items I'd inherited from the "old family<BR>&gt;house" to my apartment), we were able to drive for an hour or more and<BR>&gt;seen nothing but other cars and sagebrush scrubland. And the farmlands<BR>&gt;weren't a lot different. You'd see the occasional house or farm<BR>&gt;building, but otherwise just lots and lots of not much. :-)<BR><BR>&gt;Heck, we spent *hours* at highway speed inside each *state*. <BR><BR>Houston TX to El Paso TX is London to Vienna.&nbsp; London to Glasgow is NYC to<BR>Buffalo NY.&nbsp; Brownsville TX to Duluth MN is London to Moscow.<BR><BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>(Ask me via email about the ILink message network!)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 18:16:55 -0800<BR>From: "tsykoduk" &lt;tsykoduk@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Seas of LOX<BR><BR>Ok... What kinds of really really cold liquids would we see on a rouge<BR>planet?<BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Bruce Macintosh<BR>Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 4:15 PM<BR>To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: re: Seas of LOX<BR><BR><BR>&gt;Another question:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;On an extrasolar object, what is the reality factor of seeing a sea of<BR>&gt;Liquid O2?<BR><BR>Moderately unlikely unless something has sequestered all the hydrogen<BR>on a planet; a place cold enough for liquid O2 that has any hydrogen at all<BR>will end up with all the O2 locked up in water ice. Oxygen by itself in<BR>general<BR>is pretty unlikely stuff since it's so reactive - the Earth has a surplus<BR>only<BR>because<BR>of the presence of life.<BR><BR>Bruce<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 18:18:10 -0800<BR>From: "tsykoduk" &lt;tsykoduk@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Lab Ship Deck Plans<BR><BR>Thanks! I also found a PDF at:<BR><BR>http://www.daneveland.com/traveller/<BR><BR>It does not look like I remember them to be, but is a workable beginning :)<BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Christopher Thrash<BR>Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 5:37 PM<BR>To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Re: Lab Ship Deck Plans<BR><BR><BR>&gt;Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 15:25:34 -0800<BR>&gt;From: "tsykoduk" &lt;tsykoduk@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Lab Ship Deck Plans<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Anyone out there know of deck plans for a Lab Ship? I am going to be<BR>running<BR>&gt;a tourney at a local gaming club meeting and was thinking about using a Lab<BR>&gt;Ship - deck plans would make my life easier (not having to come up with<BR>them<BR>&gt;etc...)<BR><BR>Double Adventure 2, "Death Station," pp. 12-13. Should be reprinted in the<BR>next volume from Far Futures.<BR><BR>"Laboratory Ship," Seeker #1021.<BR><BR>Deck plans for it may also be included in GURPS Traveller: Starships, but<BR>that won't be out for a while yet.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 02:17:50 -0000<BR>From: "Ben Aaronovitch" &lt;bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>I've never understood American hatred of the French, they are your oldest allies<BR>after all.<BR><BR>Ben<BR><BR>'Let's be honest here - you paid for the women.'<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Bill Murrey - Scrooged<BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: J. Paul Sanders &lt;timmon@primenet.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 1:44 AM<BR>Subject: Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR><BR>&gt; At 05:47 PM 12/17/00 -0600, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;Phill Webb wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Legate Legion wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Mostly because of the French.&nbsp; You can blame anything on the<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; French as they are the root of all that is evil &amp; vile.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ObTrav:&nbsp; IMTU, the Zhodani are French.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Interesting. In my friends game French accents were used when speaking<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; in Vilani.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Makes the Solomani cause seem quite attractive doesn't it?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Meanwhile, in a recent T:2K campaign, our referee referred to the French<BR>&gt; &gt;as "the ancestral foe."<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;It would appear that many gamers (and other right-thinking folk) have a<BR>&gt; &gt;deep contempt for the Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Apparently the Keith's don't if the prominent French role in 2300AD and<BR>&gt; Andrew's FFL novels (and phone conversations) are any indication... :)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 'Course, they (like me) are of Scottish extraction - guess that shows you<BR>&gt; how one people's 'ancient enemy' can be another peoples 'ancient ally.'<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Just my .02 cent contribution to the semi-annual jingoistic culture thread.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Paul<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 02:22:37 -0000<BR>From: "Ben Aaronovitch" &lt;bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Damn, it's a big country! (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>I remember me and another British friend were being driven from Santa Cruz to<BR>Santa Barbera. After some hours we started to complain a bit and our hosts asked<BR>us didn't we drive this far in the UK and we pointed out that if you drove this<BR>far in the UK you ended up in the sea.<BR><BR>Ben<BR><BR><BR>'Let's be honest here - you paid for the women.'<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Bill Murrey - Scrooged<BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 2:10 AM<BR>Subject: Damn, it's a big country! (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR><BR>&gt; On Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:50:05 -0500 (EST), shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard<BR>&gt; Erickson) wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;I recall (back in the late fifties) travelling from Spokane to NYC and<BR>&gt; &gt;back by *train*. We are talking a multi day trip each way.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Six days, changing trains in Chicago.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it about as far from London to NYC<BR>&gt; &gt;as it is from NYC to San Francisco?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; NYC-London is about 500 miles farther.&nbsp; NYC to SF is equal to London to<BR>&gt; Baghdad.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;For that matter, just driving from Spokane to Portland (as we did a<BR>&gt; &gt;year or so back to get some items I'd inherited from the "old family<BR>&gt; &gt;house" to my apartment), we were able to drive for an hour or more and<BR>&gt; &gt;seen nothing but other cars and sagebrush scrubland. And the farmlands<BR>&gt; &gt;weren't a lot different. You'd see the occasional house or farm<BR>&gt; &gt;building, but otherwise just lots and lots of not much. :-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Heck, we spent *hours* at highway speed inside each *state*.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Houston TX to El Paso TX is London to Vienna.&nbsp; London to Glasgow is NYC to<BR>&gt; Buffalo NY.&nbsp; Brownsville TX to Duluth MN is London to Moscow.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt; Jeff Zeitlin<BR>&gt; jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>&gt; (Ask me via email about the ILink message network!)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:33:51 -0600<BR>From: "CDW" &lt;aremis@amaonline.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>We just can't stand for anyone more arogant than ourselves.<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: Ben Aaronovitch &lt;bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 8:17 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR><BR>&gt; I've never understood American hatred of the French, they are your oldest<BR>allies<BR>&gt; after all.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Ben<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 'Let's be honest here - you paid for the women.'<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Bill Murrey - Scrooged<BR>&gt; ----- Original Message -----<BR>&gt; From: J. Paul Sanders &lt;timmon@primenet.com&gt;<BR>&gt; To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 1:44 AM<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; At 05:47 PM 12/17/00 -0600, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;Phill Webb wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Legate Legion wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Mostly because of the French.&nbsp; You can blame anything on the<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; French as they are the root of all that is evil &amp; vile.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ObTrav:&nbsp; IMTU, the Zhodani are French.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Interesting. In my friends game French accents were used when<BR>speaking<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; in Vilani.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Makes the Solomani cause seem quite attractive doesn't it?<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;Meanwhile, in a recent T:2K campaign, our referee referred to the<BR>French<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;as "the ancestral foe."<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;It would appear that many gamers (and other right-thinking folk) have a<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;deep contempt for the Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Apparently the Keith's don't if the prominent French role in 2300AD and<BR>&gt; &gt; Andrew's FFL novels (and phone conversations) are any indication... :)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; 'Course, they (like me) are of Scottish extraction - guess that shows<BR>you<BR>&gt; &gt; how one people's 'ancient enemy' can be another peoples 'ancient ally.'<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Just my .02 cent contribution to the semi-annual jingoistic culture<BR>thread.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Paul<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:34:45 -0600<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Milieu 0 TNS<BR><BR>Was a Traveller News Service ever done for Milieu: 0? If not, are there any <BR>specific legal restrictions that would prevent me from doing an unofficial <BR>one on my website?<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>http://members.nbci.com/cheebzero/<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________<BR>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 13:05:20 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Cultural Imperialism (torn both from Re: Naming laws AND Re: Finnish and American RPGs!)<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Doug wrote semi-satirically:<BR>&gt;Well, culturally California is two states: NorCal and the Evil Hordes of<BR>&gt;SoCal.&nbsp; We live in God's Own Land.&nbsp; They live in a blasted desert and try<BR>&gt;to steal our water.<BR>[etc etc, some quite funny bits really]<BR><BR>James added imperialistically:<BR>&gt;American Culture rules because it's the best. And it's the best because<BR>it's<BR>&gt;so flexible.<BR><BR>About ten years ago over here, Phillip Adams (a media<BR>reporter/commentator/satirist) wasasked a question by an American freelance<BR>(ie. "unemployed" ;-) ;-) journalist: "what problem do we have with with<BR>American media". He suggested that the problem was simply America's size<BR>and influence on the rest of the world's mass media. It gives America such<BR>a loud voice that it drowns out everyone else. And he maintained it wasn't<BR>even all of America, more a sort of "Californisation" of the rest of the<BR>world.<BR><BR>Phillip was speaking at one of the weekly "Press Club" addresses in<BR>Canberra where, each week, different influential speakers are invited to<BR>give a talk to the media (and the rest of the country via tha ABC). The<BR>funniest part was that when he suggested, deadpan, that each member of the<BR>club adopt an "Australian-ism"&nbsp; and use it on a regular basis so the<BR>colloquialisms wouldn't be lost.<BR><BR>His chosen word was "drongo".<BR><BR>ObTrav: Do you really want one?<BR><BR>*sigh*<BR><BR>OK: "The Imperium is splitting into a microcosm of differing viewpoints<BR>with little, if any, relationship to the Emperor. Discuss." (50-point<BR>question on this year's final examination paper for Sociology, Uni of<BR>Sylea. Submitted by an anonymous Emperor.)<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 13:47:08 +1100<BR>From: Phill Webb &lt;pwebbtrav@yarranet.net.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>Ben Aaronovitch wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I've never understood American hatred of the French, they are your<BR>&gt; oldest allies after all.<BR><BR>Hey don't lump me in with those damn Americans! ;)<BR><BR>Phill<BR>- -- <BR>Read my FudgeT Notes at http://www.yarranet.net.au/phill/fudge/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 18:49:09 -0800<BR>From: Gordon Horne &lt;gordon.horne@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; I've never understood American hatred of the French, they are your oldest<BR>&gt;allies<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; after all.<BR><BR>&gt;We just can't stand for anyone more arogant than ourselves.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>And only the French qualify. &lt;g,d,r&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; g<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:52:20 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: (7) Summary - KB3 Traveller System (Playtest)<BR><BR>Quick Summary of the KB3 Traveller System....<BR><BR>(1)&nbsp; You simply throw a number of dice equal to your skill level +1.<BR>(2)&nbsp; The GM throws the opposing throw...the higher of the two rolls<BR>determines success.<BR>(3)&nbsp; Success is measured by comparing your total to the stat governing<BR>the skill.<BR><BR><BR>=================================<BR><BR><BR>TASK THROWS are made with dice based on a character's skill.&nbsp; You get 1D<BR>to throw for any skill you have at level 0.&nbsp; Any expertise will net you<BR>additional dice on this throw.<BR><BR>Skill-0.....throw 1D<BR>Skill-1.....throw 2D<BR>Skill-2.....throw 3D<BR>Skill-3.....throw 4D<BR>Skill-4.....throw 5D<BR>Skill-5.....throw 6D<BR>Skill-6.....throw 7D<BR>(etc)<BR><BR><BR>DIFFICULTY THROWS are made based on the Difficulty Table.<BR><BR>Difficulty Table<BR>- --------------------------------------<BR>1D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Level 1 Difficulty&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Easy<BR>2D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Level 2 Difficulty&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Average<BR>3D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Level 3 Difficulty&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Difficult<BR>4D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Level 4 Difficulty&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Formidable<BR>5D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Level 5 Difficulty&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Staggering<BR>6D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Level 6 Difficulty&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Impossible<BR><BR><BR>OPPOSED THROWS are Difficulty Throws, used when a character goes up<BR>against another character (as in hand-to-hand combat).&nbsp; Opposed Throws<BR>do not use the Difficulty Table--they are throws made based on the<BR>defending character's skill.&nbsp; The amount of dice used to roll an Opposed<BR>Throw is determined exactly as it is for Task Throws above.&nbsp; (Opposed<BR>Throws are Task Throws used as Difficulty Throws.)<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>The E-DIE is always used on a Task Throw and on a Difficulty Throw.&nbsp; It<BR>should be, in some way, differentiated from the rest of the dice thrown<BR>(i.e. a different color, different size, arabic numbers instead of<BR>dots...)<BR><BR>"6" on the E-DIE?..........double all even numbered dice thrown.<BR>"1" on the E-DIE?..........remove all odd numbered dice from the throw.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>SUCCESS on a task is determined by the higher total.&nbsp; A Task Throw is<BR>always made first, followed by a Difficulty Throw (or an Opposed Throw).<BR><BR><BR><BR>MEASURING SUCCESS is determined by comparing the character's Task Throw<BR>with the governing Stat of the skill used to throw the task attempt.<BR><BR>Task Throw &gt; Difficulty Throw<BR>where Task Throw &lt; Stat...............Greater Success<BR><BR>Task Throw &gt; Difficulty Throw<BR>where Task Throw &lt; 2 x Stat...............Success<BR><BR>Task Throw &gt; Difficulty Throw<BR>where Task Throw &lt; 2 x Stat...............Marginal Success<BR><BR>Task Throw &lt; Difficulty Throw<BR>where Task Throw &gt; Difficulty Throw - Stat.....Failure<BR><BR>Task Throw &lt; Difficulty Throw<BR>where Task Throw &lt; Difficulty Throw - Stat.....Greater Failure<BR><BR>Task Throw &lt; 0................................Mishap<BR><BR><BR>OPTIONAL RULE:&nbsp; A character can add his skill level to the governing<BR>Stat when measuring success.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>NOTES:&nbsp; Players are not required to use all of their dice when<BR>attempting a Task Throw.&nbsp; There are some situations where they will want<BR>to use less, but they will have to gamble on the probability of beating<BR>the Difficulty Throw.<BR><BR>You do not "measure the success" of a Difficulty Throw, but you do<BR>measure an Opposed Throw.<BR><BR>If a character can guage the success he is likely to have in the game,<BR>the GM should tell the player how many dice will be rolled for the<BR>Difficulty Throw before the character is committed to rolling the task.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3413<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; 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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Monday, December 18 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3414<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Ansestral Foes<BR>Re: (7) Summary - KB3 Traveller System (Playtest)<BR>Re: Damn, it's a big country!<BR>Re: Seas of LOX<BR>Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote Democratic<BR>Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR>Re: Culture (was: American and Finnish RPGs)<BR>Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>RE: Culture (was: American and Finnish RPGs)<BR>Re: Damn, it's a big country! (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>re: Seas of LOX<BR>RE: Seas of LOX<BR>RE: AHHH! Sailor Moon!<BR>RE: AHHH! Sailor Moon!<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Seas of LOX<BR>Re: Seas of LOX<BR>Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR>RE: Finnish and American RPGs<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Finnish and American RPGs<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 21:56:16 EST<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Ansestral Foes<BR><BR>&gt; Meanwhile, in a recent T:2K campaign, our referee referred to the French<BR>&gt;&nbsp; as "the ancestral foe."<BR><BR>Mark Twain certainly felt that way. Personally, I have nothing against any <BR>nationality . . . I think mine is the best, but that's because I was born and <BR>raised here. And in spite of all temptations to belong to other nations . . . <BR>*<BR><BR>Loren Wiseman<BR><BR>* Obligatory Gilbert and Sullivan reference.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 21:05:49 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: (7) Summary - KB3 Traveller System (Playtest)<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; MEASURING SUCCESS is determined by comparing the character's Task Throw<BR>&gt; with the governing Stat of the skill used to throw the task attempt.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Task Throw &gt; Difficulty Throw<BR>&gt; where Task Throw &lt; Stat...............Greater Success<BR><BR>(snip my own post)<BR><BR>My "greater than or equal to" signs did not come out on the list with the<BR>"equal" part...read the more detailed discussion of measuring the success of<BR>a task roll in post #5 to see where the "equal" signs should go.<BR><BR>KB<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 19:31:23 -0800<BR>From: Russell Bornschlegel &lt;kaleja@estarcion.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Damn, it's a big country!<BR><BR>Ben Aaronovitch wrote:<BR>&gt; I remember me and another British friend were being driven from Santa Cruz to<BR>&gt; Santa Barbera. After some hours we started to complain a bit and our hosts asked<BR>&gt; us didn't we drive this far in the UK and we pointed out that if you drove this<BR>&gt; far in the UK you ended up in the sea.<BR><BR>I thought I read it here on the TML some months back:<BR><BR>"Americans think 100 years is a long time. Europeans think 100 miles <BR>is a long way."<BR><BR>- -Russell B<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 14:29:35 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Seas of LOX<BR><BR>tsykoduk wrote:<BR>&gt; On an extrasolar object, what is the reality factor of seeing a sea of<BR>&gt; Liquid O2?<BR><BR>Possible, but incredibly unlikely.&nbsp; Oxygen is highly reactive, and it<BR>takes a fair bit of energy for life to produce it from oxides like<BR>CO2.&nbsp; On a very cold extrasolar object there isn't much in the way of<BR>energy, so not much likelihood that such a concentration of O2 could<BR>be maintained even if life could exist on such a planet.<BR><BR>If my character saw a sea of liquid O2 on such an object, he'd be<BR>looking for the Ancient artifacts that maintain it.&nbsp; The chances are<BR>much greater of that than of any natural process doing the job.<BR><BR>Seas of liquid helium might be a possiblity though, if the object is<BR>*really* cold.&nbsp; I don't know what the equilibrium temperature in<BR>interstellar space is, but I've got a feeling it's of that order.<BR>Maybe it would have to be in intergalactic space though, due to the<BR>heating effects of (relatively!) nearby starlight.<BR><BR>Seas of liquid hydrogen under a helium atmosphere might be plausible,<BR>with the "ground" made up mostly of solid ice, ammonia and methane.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 19:36:13 -0800<BR>From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR><BR>&gt;Kenneth Bearden wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;I'm talking about the Frank Herbert sequels.&nbsp; I've known several<BR>&gt;people who read 'Dune' and loved it so much that they immediately<BR>&gt;started reading the sequels.&nbsp; In my experience, these people<BR>&gt;invariably express great disappointment.<BR><BR>Yep.&nbsp; I enjoyed the first novel, the sexism bothered me somewhat, <BR>but it was good and fun and I loved the details of life on Arakis.&nbsp; <BR>Dune Messiah was OK.&nbsp; It had some interesting bits, but it lacked <BR>the overal impact of Dune.&nbsp; I never got more than a few pages in <BR>either of the later sequels, they simply looked too bad.&nbsp; <BR><BR>- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com&nbsp; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:56:29 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>At 5:11 AM -0800 12/17/00, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; And screw your job over nicely in doing so ;(&nbsp; My passport got yanked<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; last year,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Ouch. Who did *you* piss off?<BR><BR>I didn't exactly piss anyone off, just managed to appeal to their <BR>suspicious and bigoted natures with my application for a passport <BR>renewal.&nbsp; Until the State Department investigates &amp; satisfies itself <BR>about former (which they're not actually making any effort to do, <BR>perhaps because of the latter), I can't travel.&nbsp; Or, it seems, vote. <BR>And possibly not work, though if my tribal enrollment comes through, <BR>I may have found a particularly satisfyingly absurd work-around to <BR>*that* problem :)<BR><BR>ObTrav:&nbsp; Um... can someone be an Imperial citizen without being a <BR>citizen or legal resident of *any* Imperial world?<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 23:01:46 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote Democratic<BR><BR>At 1:01 AM -0700 12/17/00, Legate Legion wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;Giving orders like "drop and give me twenty" an all-meaning.<BR><BR>(whoops, obviously, that should have been "all-new meaning")<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Yeppers, it does, Kenji.&nbsp; Sorta like the Germans in WWI had comfort<BR>&gt;wagons full of women go to the rear area to comfort their soldiers.<BR><BR>Right, well, I'm sure the Imperium -- despite its reliance on <BR>invisible hand-jobs from the free markets -- will have dedicated <BR>military 'procurement' corps, which hopefully Doug will write up <BR>GURPS:Trav character templates for at once.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Of course gentlemen who were in the Army could have useful skills on a<BR>&gt;ship.&nbsp; Security, cargo masters, etc.<BR><BR>Pfffft.&nbsp; Useful?&nbsp; I don't think so.&nbsp; As we know, shipboard security <BR>is unnecessary because there is no piracy in the Imperium (recent <BR>song postings notwithstanding) and cargo operations will be wholly <BR>automated -- or rather, taken over by unemployed jump torpedos <BR>willing to work for cheap.&nbsp; No, I'm afraid all those vets are going <BR>to just have to go on the game.<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:05:27 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR><BR>On 12/17/00 at 04:51 PM,&nbsp; Gregory Carl Kettler &lt;gckettle@midway.uchicago.edu&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Yes!&nbsp; I first read the Foundation trilogy in 1967.&nbsp; I was a big fan<BR>&gt;&gt; of Asimov prior to that through reading his popular science books<BR>&gt;&gt; and various short stories.&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;I just read this a couple of months ago, and enjoyed it greatly.&nbsp; I<BR>&gt;should have read it long ago, but bookstore shelves have always<BR>&gt;been so crowded with his post-trilogy Foundation books that I had<BR>&gt;no idea where to start.<BR><BR>To combine this with another thread from a few months ago, Foundation is what introduced me to the Hansantic League. Something like the Hansantic League is where I'm going to bound and determined to set a fantasy game one of these days. And no D&amp;D3 for me, no sirreee...I'll Fudge it! &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 08:14:27 +0400<BR>From: "Andrew Long" &lt;dyrnwynn@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Culture (was: American and Finnish RPGs)<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; On Sunday, December 17, 2000, at 01:55 PM, Legate Legion wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Look, face it,<BR>&gt; &gt; American Culture Rules.&nbsp; Not because it is the best, but because it is<BR>so<BR>&gt; &gt; flexable.&nbsp; Everyone has a say in it.<BR>&gt;<BR>Hang on&nbsp; a second, I just have to file the serial numbers off of this<BR>joke...<BR><BR>Q. What's the difference between the Ziru Sirka and a Petri dish?<BR>A. There's a living culture in a Petri dish<BR><BR>I first heard this joke told by a British expat in Australia (about Oz,<BR>natch.) It's the kind of joke that gets told by outsiders about wherever<BR>they happen to be. It'll still be told in the OTU, and in all the variants<BR>that we've created along the way. Face it, the USA will continue to attract<BR>this kind of comment for as long as people still want to come and visit/live<BR>there. Jokes are ways of dealing with pain and tension - in this case the<BR>sense of alienation you get in a foreign land, where they don't do things<BR>the way you learnt at your mommas knee. They may be better, they may be<BR>worse, they may just be different.<BR><BR>I'm not an American, nor do I play one on TV. I have been working with<BR>Americans for some nine months now, and although we're ALL in a foreign<BR>land, I'm outnumbered. So I'm learning to live with them.<BR><BR>ObTrav: I could have made the joke about the 3I, but thought it would be<BR>less controversial as an IW joke...<BR><BR>regards, Andy Long<BR><BR>========================================================================<BR>Andy Long<BR>Dyrnwynn@HotMail.com<BR>========================================================================<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:21:38 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>On 12/18/00 at 10:35 AM,&nbsp; Phill Webb &lt;pwebbtrav@yarranet.net.au&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;Legate Legion wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Mostly because of the French.&nbsp; You can blame anything on the<BR>&gt;&gt; French as they are the root of all that is evil &amp; vile.<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ObTrav:&nbsp; IMTU, the Zhodani are French.<BR><BR>&gt;Interesting. In my friends game French accents were used when<BR>&gt;speaking in Vilani.<BR><BR>&gt;Makes the Solomani cause seem quite attractive doesn't it?<BR><BR>Does *anyone* like the French...even the French? &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Now about accents... Zhodani have arabic accents, Vilani are japanese, Solomani are german, Sword Worlders are swedish, Darrians are spanish, Genoee are dutch, and Imperials are upper-crust british. I don't hate anyone enough to stick them with the french. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:26:43 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>On 12/18/00 at 02:17 AM,&nbsp; "Ben Aaronovitch" &lt;bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;I've never understood American hatred of the French, they are your<BR>&gt;oldest allies after all.<BR><BR>I don't think you could say we hate them.&nbsp; Actually, I'd say we like<BR>the *french* as a people.&nbsp; It's those snobs in Paris we have a<BR>problem with...we certainly like french fries. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 15:24:09 +1100<BR>From: Paul Harris &lt;paul.harris@dytech.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Culture (was: American and Finnish RPGs)<BR><BR>Andrew.... you mention being on TV? <BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Andrew Long [mailto:dyrnwynn@hotmail.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 3:14 PM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Culture (was: American and Finnish RPGs)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; On Sunday, December 17, 2000, at 01:55 PM, Legate Legion wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Look, face it,<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; American Culture Rules.&nbsp; Not because it is the best, but <BR>&gt; because it is<BR>&gt; so<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; flexable.&nbsp; Everyone has a say in it.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; Hang on&nbsp; a second, I just have to file the serial numbers off of this<BR>&gt; joke...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Q. What's the difference between the Ziru Sirka and a Petri dish?<BR>&gt; A. There's a living culture in a Petri dish<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I first heard this joke told by a British expat in Australia <BR>&gt; (about Oz,<BR>&gt; natch.) It's the kind of joke that gets told by outsiders <BR>&gt; about wherever<BR>&gt; they happen to be. It'll still be told in the OTU, and in all <BR>&gt; the variants<BR>&gt; that we've created along the way. Face it, the USA will <BR>&gt; continue to attract<BR>&gt; this kind of comment for as long as people still want to come <BR>&gt; and visit/live<BR>&gt; there. Jokes are ways of dealing with pain and tension - in <BR>&gt; this case the<BR>&gt; sense of alienation you get in a foreign land, where they <BR>&gt; don't do things<BR>&gt; the way you learnt at your mommas knee. They may be better, <BR>&gt; they may be<BR>&gt; worse, they may just be different.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I'm not an American, nor do I play one on TV. I have been working with<BR>&gt; Americans for some nine months now, and although we're ALL in <BR>&gt; a foreign<BR>&gt; land, I'm outnumbered. So I'm learning to live with them.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ObTrav: I could have made the joke about the 3I, but thought <BR>&gt; it would be<BR>&gt; less controversial as an IW joke...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; regards, Andy Long<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ==============================================================<BR>&gt; ==========<BR>&gt; Andy Long<BR>&gt; Dyrnwynn@HotMail.com<BR>&gt; ==============================================================<BR>&gt; ==========<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:40:30 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Damn, it's a big country! (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>On 12/18/00 at 02:22 AM,&nbsp; "Ben Aaronovitch" &lt;bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;I remember me and another British friend were being driven from<BR>&gt;Santa Cruz to Santa Barbera. After some hours we started to<BR>&gt;complain a bit and our hosts asked us didn't we drive this far in<BR>&gt;the UK and we pointed out that if you drove this far in the UK you<BR>&gt;ended up in the sea.<BR><BR>I live 300 km from my state's capital, 600 km from the folks down in the south part of the state that can't figure out how to vote, 1600 km from my nation's capital, and 4000 km from Doug. Yes, the US is a big country, but so are Canada and Australia so don't feel like I'm leaving you out. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:47:15 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: re: Seas of LOX<BR><BR>On 12/17/00 at 04:15 PM,&nbsp; "Bruce Macintosh" &lt;bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Another question:<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;On an extrasolar object, what is the reality factor of seeing a sea of<BR>&gt;&gt;Liquid O2?<BR><BR>&gt;Moderately unlikely unless something has sequestered all the<BR>&gt;hydrogen on a planet; a place cold enough for liquid O2 that has<BR>&gt;any hydrogen at all will end up with all the O2 locked up in water<BR>&gt;ice. Oxygen by itself in general is pretty unlikely stuff since<BR>&gt;it's so reactive - the Earth has a surplus only because<BR>&gt;of the presence of life.<BR><BR>Oxygen will react will all sorts of things. If it wasn't for life would any be free here?&nbsp; I find it hard to believe anywhere will have seas of liquid oxygen.&nbsp; OTOH, if it's a good plot tell the players to suspend their disbelief and do it.<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:49:43 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: RE: Seas of LOX<BR><BR>On 12/17/00 at 06:16 PM,&nbsp; "tsykoduk" &lt;tsykoduk@bigfoot.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;Ok... What kinds of really really cold liquids would we see on a<BR>&gt;rouge planet?<BR><BR>Nitrogen?&nbsp; Ammonia, Methane?<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 18:21:20 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: AHHH! Sailor Moon!<BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry wrote :<BR>&gt; At 10:03 AM 12/17/2000 -0000, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;&lt;G&gt; Did you go down to the south coast and fight the Rockers, Doug?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Subsitute (a great song, BTW)<BR><BR>Yep.<BR><BR>&gt; Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk for Brighton, then yes.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The Boardwalk was featured in the film _Lost Boys_, and it does feel that<BR>&gt; creepy.<BR><BR>Ahh Lost Boys, my favourite VtM LARP characters come from that movie, the<BR>Frog brothers !<BR>Two of the best vampire hunters in the business !<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 18:24:00 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: AHHH! Sailor Moon!<BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry wrote :<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;Mod died with Keith Moon.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Keith Moon, Sailor Moon -- what's the connection?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Arrgh!&nbsp; I'm now stuck with images of the Sailor Scouts defeating the<BR>&gt; monster of the day, and then smashing their insturments!<BR><BR>Funny, I had this picture of the Sailor Scouts floating face down in a pool<BR>after a drug overdose.<BR><BR>Then again, that might just be wish fulfilment.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:42:17 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; At 5:11 AM -0800 12/17/00, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; And screw your job over nicely in doing so ;(&nbsp; My passport got yanked<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; last year,<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Ouch. Who did *you* piss off?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I didn't exactly piss anyone off, just managed to appeal to their <BR>&gt; suspicious and bigoted natures with my application for a passport <BR>&gt; renewal.&nbsp; Until the State Department investigates &amp; satisfies itself <BR>&gt; about former (which they're not actually making any effort to do, <BR>&gt; perhaps because of the latter), I can't travel.&nbsp; Or, it seems, vote. <BR>&gt; And possibly not work, though if my tribal enrollment comes through, <BR>&gt; I may have found a particularly satisfyingly absurd work-around to <BR>&gt; *that* problem :)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ObTrav:&nbsp; Um... can someone be an Imperial citizen without being a <BR>&gt; citizen or legal resident of *any* Imperial world?<BR><BR>Probably. Just like it's possible to get UN "citizenship" right now.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:47:12 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Seas of LOX<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Ok... What kinds of really really cold liquids would we see on a rouge<BR>&gt; planet?<BR><BR>I'd be surprised to see a *rouge* planet. A *rogue* planet is rather<BR>more likely. :-)<BR><BR>(rouge is a type of makeup, or a polishing compound)<BR><BR>Anything out beyond Pluto will likely be at temps near 3 K(elvin). At<BR>that temp *only* helium is liquid.<BR><BR>If there's still still some internal heat, you could get other<BR>compounds/elements as liquid. <BR><BR>Check Forward's "Camelot 30K" which is mostly set on a planet with a<BR>surface temp of 30 K. <BR><BR>Figure out an appropriate surface temp, then hit the library and check<BR>the table of inorganic compounds in the CRC Handbook of Chemistry and<BR>Physics. <BR><BR>Don't forget that Oxygen, Fluorine and Chlorine aren't going to be<BR>available as free elements. Nitrogen isn't likely to be either as there<BR>won't be enough UV to break it free from ammonia unless the planet is<BR>fairly near a star with a high UV output. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 21:02:59 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Seas of LOX<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; tsykoduk wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; On an extrasolar object, what is the reality factor of seeing a sea of<BR>&gt;&gt; Liquid O2?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Possible, but incredibly unlikely.&nbsp; Oxygen is highly reactive, and it<BR>&gt; takes a fair bit of energy for life to produce it from oxides like<BR>&gt; CO2.&nbsp; On a very cold extrasolar object there isn't much in the way of<BR>&gt; energy, so not much likelihood that such a concentration of O2 could<BR>&gt; be maintained even if life could exist on such a planet.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; If my character saw a sea of liquid O2 on such an object, he'd be<BR>&gt; looking for the Ancient artifacts that maintain it.&nbsp; The chances are<BR>&gt; much greater of that than of any natural process doing the job.<BR><BR>Or it could be a convenient way to store LOX. After all, at *those*<BR>temps it won't react very fast. Just don't supply heat of fire a weapon<BR>at it. :-)<BR><BR>&gt; Seas of liquid helium might be a possiblity though, if the object is<BR>&gt; *really* cold.&nbsp; I don't know what the equilibrium temperature in<BR>&gt; interstellar space is, but I've got a feeling it's of that order.<BR><BR>3 K is as low as it can get. That's equilibrium with the background<BR>radiation from the Big Bang. <BR><BR>How far out you have to be for that to overwhelm stellar radiation I'm<BR>not sure.<BR><BR>For what it's worth, the CRC handbook lists 50K as the surface temp of<BR>Pluto. That figure seems to come from data published in 1992.<BR><BR>&gt; Maybe it would have to be in intergalactic space though, due to the<BR>&gt; heating effects of (relatively!) nearby starlight.<BR><BR>Keep in mind that starlight contains high energy photons, but the total<BR>flux (ie energy per unit area) is quite low. So while these photons can<BR>trigger chemical reactions in individual molecules, they won't *heat*<BR>things significantly.<BR><BR>&gt; Seas of liquid hydrogen under a helium atmosphere might be plausible,<BR>&gt; with the "ground" made up mostly of solid ice, ammonia and methane.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 23:28:08 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR><BR>sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Dune Messiah was OK.&nbsp; It had some interesting bits, but it lacked<BR>&gt; the overal impact of Dune.<BR><BR>You know, it hit me tonight, as I read, what Dune Messiah reminds me of.<BR><BR>Dune read like classic science fiction novel (as it is).&nbsp; Dune Messiah<BR>reads, to me, like a Shakespeare play.&nbsp; I just read the chapter where<BR>Paul awakes from the dream about the moon falling, goes out on the<BR>balcony and contemplates his fall.<BR><BR>I could easily see it done as a soliloquy in a modern-day Shakespeare<BR>type play.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 18:55:36 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Finnish and American RPGs<BR><BR>James Jensen wrote :<BR><BR>&gt; Actually, saying that there is actually an American culture is at best<BR>&gt; misleading and at worst completely wrong. American "Culture" is<BR>&gt; really just a harmonious blend of (just about) every culture in the world.<BR><BR>While there are many foreign cultures that exist happily in the US, none of<BR>this is considered "American Culture" by those outside the US. "American<BR>Culture" to us is what is produced by Hollywood and the television networks,<BR>in other words what is seen to be truly _American_ culture outside America<BR>are things like "COPS", "Survivor" "When Animals Attack", "Jerry Springer",<BR>"Oprah", Jerry Falwell and his ilk, and L. Ron's little cult.<BR><BR>OK, that's the _bad_ side, and I'll admit that there's some recognizably<BR>American culture that's I enjoy, such as some Bruce Springsteen, the Velvet<BR>Underground, Andy Warhol, and even parts of the Disney Empire,( not mention<BR>Marc Miller and Steve Jackson)<BR><BR>The point, though, is that at least externally, "American Culture" is not<BR>seen as the conglomeration of a whole pile of other cultures, but as the<BR>uniquely American things that are spread by US media.<BR><BR>This is unfortunate, as what we _should_ see as "American Culture", of<BR>course, is the culture of the indigenous tribes of America.<BR><BR>&gt; That's why "American Culture" rules. It's because it's so diverse.<BR><BR>Nope, "American Culture Rules" not because if what it is or what it is not,<BR>but because of the marketing muscle of the US media conglomerates and<BR>associated companies.<BR><BR>Over here, it's called "cultural imperialism" by the social scientists<BR>&lt;grin&gt;<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 00:47:22 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>At 8:42 PM -0800 12/17/00, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; ObTrav:&nbsp; Um... can someone be an Imperial citizen without being a<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; citizen or legal resident of *any* Imperial world?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Probably. Just like it's possible to get UN "citizenship" right now.<BR><BR>Okay... how about a foreigner, say, someone from the Zhodani <BR>Consulate, becoming a naturalized citizen of an Imperial <BR>member-planet without also being made an Imperial citizen?<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:15:51 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Finnish and American RPGs<BR><BR>From: James Jensen &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Then don't bitch about how American they are.&nbsp; Its like the French<BR>&gt;&gt; bitching about how American movies made in America are.&nbsp; Look, face it,<BR>&gt;&gt; American Culture Rules.&nbsp; Not because it is the best, but because it is so<BR>&gt;&gt; flexable.&nbsp; Everyone has a say in it.&nbsp; If you are African, you can find<BR>&gt;&gt; elements of African Culture here, if you are Finish, you can find Finish<BR>&gt;&gt; Culture here, but the great thing is that it is a melange of them.&nbsp; Look<BR>&gt;at<BR>&gt;&gt; Bar-B-Que.&nbsp; That is an All American Food, more than the Hot Dog or<BR>&gt;&gt; Hamburger.&nbsp; It is sweet or tart, mild or hot.&nbsp; It is what you make of it,<BR>&gt;&gt; like American Culture.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Not to offend anyone, but here's my feelings:<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; You will always offend someone with your feelings.&nbsp; I got used to it, &amp;<BR>it doesn't bother me anymore.<BR><BR>&gt;American Culture rules because it's the best. And it's the best because<BR>it's<BR>&gt;so flexible. Everyone has a say in it. We don't even have an official<BR>&gt;language. And the most common system of measurement isn't the official one!<BR>&gt;We run the gamut!<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Agreed, of course I did say that in the first place basicly.<BR><BR>&gt;ObTraveller: The Imperium is the best because it's so flexible. Everyworld<BR>&gt;has a say in it. It doesn't have an official system of government. It runs<BR>&gt;the gamut!<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Agreed.&nbsp; You have the right of choice in the Imperium.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3414<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3415</B></TD></TR>
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<TD>12/17/00 10:37:51 PM Pacific Standard Time</TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Monday, December 18 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3415<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR>Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Finnish and American RPGs<BR>Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Finnish and American RPGs<BR>Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote Democratic<BR>Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Seas of LOX<BR>RE: Culture (was: American and Finnish RPGs)<BR>RE: Damn, it's a big country! (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>RE: Seas of LOX<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:20:16 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR><BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; The name Kevin Anderson rings a bell, but I can't place anything he<BR>&gt;&gt; has written.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;He's the worst hack ever to carve a word out on paper.&nbsp; He writes<BR>fanfic--Star<BR>&gt;Wars books, X-Files books, others.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I've read three of this Star Wars books (the Jedi Academy trilogy), and<BR>these<BR>&gt;reads were so bad that they were not worth the wrinkles you get on the back<BR>of<BR>&gt;your shirt as you lean back and read.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Awful, awful stuff.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I vowed I would never read anything again with KJA's name on them--but it<BR>&gt;looks like I might just have to try out the Dune prequels.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Shit.&nbsp; I wish he hadn't been involved with that project.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; You want to know something funny, Ken?&nbsp; On one hand, this sounds like<BR>what Star Wars fans said when they heard Alan Dean Foster was going to write<BR>some Star Wars Novels.&nbsp; While I have not read anything written by him, I am<BR>willing to give him the benifit of the doubt.&nbsp; On the other hand, Alan Dean<BR>Foster is not Jerry Pournelle, Larry Niven, Issac Asimov, Ray Bradberry, or<BR>RAH.&nbsp; On the gripping hand, no one else is Jerry Pournelle, Larry Niven,<BR>Issac Asimov, Ray Bradberry, or RAH.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:13:04 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>From: Douglas E. Berry &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Douglas, do you feel the same about San Francisco (or California, although<BR>&gt;&gt;that is bigger) as the States, as government? As SF is as big as Finland,<BR>&gt;&gt;and EU is about the same as the US, I think I can feel the same as you<BR>&gt;&gt;towards the big ones. B-/<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Well, culturally California is two states: NorCal and the Evil Hordes of<BR>&gt;SoCal.&nbsp; We live in God's Own Land.&nbsp; They live in a blasted desert and try<BR>&gt;to steal our water.&nbsp; We have the Giants, they have the Dodgers (spit.)&nbsp; All<BR>&gt;of our state politics is a balancing act between these two cultural groups<BR>&gt;(and some in the northern parts of the state don't even want to claim the<BR>&gt;Bay Area!)<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; And, what about your electrical power, do they try &amp; steal that as well?<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; And, Doug is San Fran as romantic as everyone says?&nbsp; I know this is OT,<BR>but I am planing a surprise trip for myself &amp; my wife &amp; I want it to be as<BR>romantic as possible.<BR><BR>&gt;There is a mistrust of an intrusive government at all levels.&nbsp; We've just<BR>&gt;had a run-off election in SF and the current mayor, His Imperial Majesty<BR>&gt;Willie I, lost most of his supporters on the Board of Supervisors.<BR>&gt;Everyone is saying that this is because Willie was too pushy on several<BR>&gt;issues.&nbsp; We have a long traditional of telling the state to mind it's own<BR>&gt;business.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Good for you.&nbsp; Remember, you can be loyal to your country &amp; still tell<BR>that same country to stuff it.&nbsp; I may disagree with what our government<BR>does, but let someone else trash it, hell no.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Perhaps I should come and visit the States someday. It seems that I<BR>&gt;&gt;haven't fully grasped its diversity, which might explain the distrust for<BR>&gt;&gt;the government : the place is simply too big.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;You should.&nbsp; If nothing else, flying across the country helps to understand<BR>&gt;just how *big* this place is.&nbsp; I will formally extend an invitation to any<BR>&gt;TMLers who visit the Bay Area to visit us, and get the whole tour.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Try driving across country.&nbsp; That really tells you how big it is.&nbsp; My<BR>aunt decided to visit from England, when I was living in Chicago, &amp; she flew<BR>into Kenedy Airport &amp; thought she would drive from NYC to Chicago in one<BR>day.&nbsp; It took her 3 days.&nbsp; She didn't understand how big it was when she<BR>flew from Kenedy to O'Hare.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;ObTrav:<BR>&gt;&gt;Our local gaming store (the only one worth the name in Finland) got BITS<BR>&gt;&gt;books a couple of weeks ago. They seem to be very useful, I bought 101<BR>&gt;&gt;Religions and 101 Governments for starters. It is nice to have full<BR>&gt;&gt;service stores, and friends who know people running them...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;That it is.. I wish we'd get the BITS books in stores over here.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Same here.&nbsp; I talked to my FLGS, "The Imperial Outpost", &amp; they cannot<BR>get anything from BITS in.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:24:02 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net &lt;eris@pcola.gulf.net&gt;<BR><BR><BR>Eris, Goddess of Discord says to me....<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Btw, Robert A. Heinlein was not a Fascist, but a Republican.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;LOL! Now you've done it! Half this country, and most of the rest of the<BR>world, can't tell the difference between fascists and Republicans. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Eris, oh great &amp; mightly Goddess, the other half cannot tell the<BR>difference between The US &amp; Fascists.<BR><BR>&gt;However, I bet he was an independent.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Or a Classic Liberal.<BR><BR>&gt;Now, for something more serioius!&nbsp; I say it's spelled barbecue, is a<BR>sauce/marinade/style of cooking, not a dish made of spicy loose meat served<BR>on a bun, includes tomatoes *and* mustard, is both sweet, tart, and hot, and<BR>would be a perfect way of serving leg of K'kree!<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Sounds good, but do you mind if I have Rib of K'kree?&nbsp; The leg I find to<BR>be a bit stringy.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 21:03:15 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR><BR>From: Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm &lt;jenry023@student.liu.se&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Then don't bitch about how American they are.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I regularly do, but no longer on this list (due to past flamewars).<BR>&gt;However, I really must respond to this post. It struck me as a typical<BR>&gt;example of exactly why non-Americans bitch about American attitudes.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Jens, I don't bitch about Swedes mostly because I don't really care that<BR>much about them to bitch about them.&nbsp; *g*<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Then I would like the hear a thank you for all of the time us arrogant<BR>Americans went to some country that didn't care about us &amp; we saved their<BR>lives.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Its like the French bitching about how American movies made in America<BR>are.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Many Europeans bitch about American movies. That's because most of them<BR>&gt;are predictable and dull compared to most European movies.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I have seen European Movies &amp; if a plot &amp; story that doesn't make sense<BR>it interesting to you, please watch them.&nbsp; Personally, I like English Movies<BR>as well as Canadian, Austrailian, &amp; New Zealand Movies.&nbsp; We share a common<BR>cultural base, so I can easily understand them &amp; follow their plots.&nbsp; And,<BR>the Hong Kong Action Films are great.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Look, face it, American Culture Rules.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;In your opinion. The opinions of others may vary.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Then why do we export our culture, not because we have to, but because<BR>people want to see it.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Not because it is the best, but because it is so flexable.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Flexible enough to accept opinions other than your own?<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Yes, that is the reason this country was founded.&nbsp; But, you will also<BR>have to agree at times to disagree.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Everyone has a say in it.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Even a leftist atheist like me?<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Only if you live in the US.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; If you are African, you can find elements of African Culture here, if you<BR>are Finish, you<BR>&gt;&gt; can find Finish Culture here, but the great thing is that it is a melange<BR>of them.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;True. Lots of pagan (Halloween, etc.), revolutionary (the founding of<BR>&gt;the US), and other influences. All mixed beyond recognition.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Correct, &amp; that is what is fun about it.&nbsp; You get a bit of African,<BR>Wiccan, English, etc Cultural Influences.&nbsp; I love the 4th of July here in<BR>Phoenix.&nbsp; I can get an Eggroll, a Taco, Jumping Jack, &amp; Bar-B-Que all in one<BR>place.<BR><BR>&gt;Sorry for making this post, but I really had to do it. I will not add to<BR>&gt;this thread, so if you want a reply from me, mail me in private.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I have done both.&nbsp; And, if you want ICQ me about it sometime, Jens.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:33:29 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>From: Phill Webb &lt;pwebbtrav@yarranet.net.au&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&gt;Legate Legion wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Mostly because of the French.&nbsp; You can blame anything on the<BR>&gt;&gt; French as they are the root of all that is evil &amp; vile.<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ObTrav:&nbsp; IMTU, the Zhodani are French.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Interesting. In my friends game French accents were used when speaking<BR>&gt;in Vilani.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I use a Swedish Chef accent for the Vilani.&nbsp; That way they don't know<BR>what I said.<BR><BR>&gt;Makes the Solomani cause seem quite attractive doesn't it?<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Very, if you use the Swedish Chef accent.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Of course during the Interstellar Wars between the Terrans &amp; the Vilani,<BR>I use a French accent for the Vilani.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:34:50 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>From: Leonard Erickson &lt;shadow@krypton.rain.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Kenji, take your damn drug-drug now.&nbsp; That person had been slamming<BR>&gt;&gt; America &amp; Americans for too long.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;No more (or less) than you've been slamming Finland.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; After he slammed America.&nbsp; After, not before.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:37:09 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Finnish and American RPGs<BR><BR>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;I'm sure lots of people are happy living in France.&nbsp; :p<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Only because they are cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:40:25 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>From: Chris Seamans &lt;semo@pil.net&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; Oh you evil bastards! The pair of you almost invented a new type of<BR>&gt;keyboard kill, not related to mirth. I am actually beginning to salivate. I<BR>&gt;don't even like barbecue, and yet your vivid descriptions have me saying<BR>&gt;"Mmmmmmmm... Leg of K'Kree" and "Mmmmmmm... Brisket" in my best Homer<BR>&gt;Simpson imitation.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Then again, that could be because I'm really hungry.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; On one hand it could be because you are really hungry, on the other hand<BR>it could be that we are training you to like Bar-B-Que, &amp; on the gripping<BR>hand it could be because you have come over to the Dark Side.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Join us &amp; share a slab of K'kree Ribs with me, Chris.&nbsp; Along with Cole<BR>Slaw &amp; Steak Fries.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:43:48 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>From: Daniel Phelps &lt;phelpsd@gate.net&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Now, for something more serioius!&nbsp; I say it's spelled barbecue, is a<BR>&gt;sauce/marinade/style of cooking, not a dish made of spicy loose meat served<BR>&gt;on a bun, includes tomatoes *and* mustard, is both sweet, tart, and hot,<BR>and<BR>&gt;would be a perfect way of serving leg of K'kree!<BR><BR>&gt;Yes but what kind of sauce/marinade/style of cooking, a Carolina style pig<BR>&gt;picken with a vinagar base, or grilled with a Georgia mustard based sauce<BR>or<BR>&gt;Tennessee hickory smoked with a tomato based sauce or Texas brisket style<BR>&gt;with sausage and beans?<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Dan, how about a combo of the Tennessee &amp; Texas styles for the Ribs?&nbsp; Of<BR>course you could always meskit&lt;sp&gt; smoke them &amp; do it with a tomato based<BR>sauce.<BR><BR>&gt;Say how about K'kree chilli, or chops done like Cuban pork or perhaps that<BR>&gt;leg done like Greek leg of lamb on a bed of saffron rice or even<BR>&gt;SHISH-K-BOBed with couscous, humus,&nbsp; tabouli and pita bread?<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Now, that all sounds good.&nbsp; Although, I have never had Cuban Pork, but<BR>is it done like Cuban Chicken?&nbsp; Also, don't forget about a nice K'kree Gyros<BR>with Cuccumber Sauce.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:46:11 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;Hmmm... Inspirations from the Japanese take-out menu:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;K'kree katsu.<BR>&gt;K'kree negimayaki<BR>&gt;K'kree teriyaki<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; You know I am thinking we should have a Monthly Pot Luck as well as<BR>Jesse's Monthly Fun Shoot.&nbsp; Maybe combine the two, or have a K'kree hunt &amp;<BR>put the game in the stew pot?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:52:17 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>From: Ben Aaronovitch &lt;bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&gt;I've never understood American hatred of the French, they are your oldest<BR>allies<BR>&gt;after all.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Ben<BR><BR>Ben,<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; True the French helped us out in the Revolution, but after the<BR>Revolution they wanted a tribute from us, spawning the famous American<BR>saying, "Millions for Defense, but not a penny in Tribute".&nbsp; Plus add in the<BR>fact that America has always been a strong trade partner with England &amp; we<BR>may fuss &amp; fued, but we will never allow cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys to<BR>get between us.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 00:56:51 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Finnish and American RPGs<BR><BR>At 8:15 PM -0700 12/17/00, Legate Legion wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;ObTraveller: The Imperium is the best because it's so flexible. Everyworld<BR>&gt;&gt;has a say in it. It doesn't have an official system of government. It runs<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;the gamut!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Agreed.&nbsp; You have the right of choice in the Imperium.<BR><BR>Well, this has already been hammered into the ground through the <BR>bodies of several luckless horses, but many (most, probably) people <BR>living in the Imperium aren't 'citizens' of it, but rather of their <BR>home planets' government, which likely as not offer no 'flexibility' <BR>or say in governance to its people whatsoever.<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:58:40 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote Democratic<BR><BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &gt;Giving orders like "drop and give me twenty" an all-meaning.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;(whoops, obviously, that should have been "all-new meaning")<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I just turned on my Kenji-to-English translation program.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Yeppers, it does, Kenji.&nbsp; Sorta like the Germans in WWI had comfort<BR>&gt;&gt;wagons full of women go to the rear area to comfort their soldiers.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Right, well, I'm sure the Imperium -- despite its reliance on<BR>&gt;invisible hand-jobs from the free markets -- will have dedicated<BR>&gt;military 'procurement' corps, which hopefully Doug will write up<BR>&gt;GURPS:Trav character templates for at once.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I hope so too.&nbsp; *weg*&nbsp; Of course why stop at hand-jobs from the free<BR>markets?<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Of course gentlemen who were in the Army could have useful skills on<BR>a<BR>&gt;&gt;ship.&nbsp; Security, cargo masters, etc.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Pfffft.&nbsp; Useful?&nbsp; I don't think so.&nbsp; As we know, shipboard security<BR>&gt;is unnecessary because there is no piracy in the Imperium (recent<BR>&gt;song postings notwithstanding) and cargo operations will be wholly<BR>&gt;automated -- or rather, taken over by unemployed jump torpedos<BR>&gt;willing to work for cheap.&nbsp; No, I'm afraid all those vets are going<BR>&gt;to just have to go on the game.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; What about Hi-Jackings?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 23:02:20 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net &lt;eris@pcola.gulf.net&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;Does *anyone* like the French...even the French? &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; No, the cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys don't like themselves.<BR><BR>&gt;Now about accents... Zhodani have arabic accents, Vilani are japanese,<BR>Solomani are german, Sword Worlders are swedish, Darrians are spanish,<BR>Genoee are dutch, and Imperials are upper-crust british. I don't hate anyone<BR>enough to stick them with the french. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I like my Zhodani to have French Accents, the Vilani are Swedish Chefs,<BR>the Solomani are Mid-Western American, the Sword Worlders are Swedish, the<BR>Darrians are English South African, the Genoee are Boer South African, &amp; the<BR>Imperials are either some from of American or British.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 00:03:13 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Seas of LOX<BR><BR>On 12/17/00 at 08:47 PM,&nbsp; shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:<BR><BR>&gt;In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Ok... What kinds of really really cold liquids would we see on a rouge<BR>&gt;&gt; planet?<BR><BR>&gt;I'd be surprised to see a *rouge* planet. A *rogue* planet is<BR>&gt;rather more likely. :-)<BR><BR>&gt;(rouge is a type of makeup, or a polishing compound)<BR><BR>Or 1 point in Canadian Football? <BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 10:09:12 +0400<BR>From: "Andrew Long" &lt;dyrnwynn@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Culture (was: American and Finnish RPGs)<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 15:24:09 +1100<BR>&gt; From: Paul Harris &lt;paul.harris@dytech.com.au&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Culture (was: American and Finnish RPGs)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Andrew.... you mention being on TV?<BR>&gt;<BR>Ooops! Missed the smiley. Mea maxima etc.&nbsp; Anyone pointing a TV camera at me<BR>will realise their mistake soon enough.<BR><BR>Nope, at the moment I make my crust administering NT systems. Used to work<BR>for ICL in Melbourne &amp; Brisbane in the late '80s, then Fujitsu in Sydney<BR>last year until I came back to the Gulf last Xmas.<BR><BR>Andy<BR><BR>============================================================<BR>Andy Long<BR>Dyrnwynn@HotMail.com<BR>============================================================<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 19:21:13 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Damn, it's a big country! (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>Jeff Zeitlin wrote :<BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Heck, we spent *hours* at highway speed inside each *state*.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Houston TX to El Paso TX is London to Vienna.&nbsp; London to Glasgow is NYC to<BR>&gt; Buffalo NY.&nbsp; Brownsville TX to Duluth MN is London to Moscow.<BR><BR>As someone once said, an Engishman thinks 100 miles is a long way, and an<BR>American thinks 100 years is a long time.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:16:10 -0800<BR>From: "tsykoduk" &lt;tsykoduk@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Seas of LOX<BR><BR>&gt;blush&lt;<BR><BR>Yeah Any really cold liquid will do just fine.. Here is the basic plot and<BR>feel free to shoot holes in it..<BR><BR>The Team are frozen watch on a deep space lab ship - they awake one day and<BR>find the crew dead and the ship submerged in a sea of &lt;insert really cold<BR>liquid&gt;. The PP is off line, and the emergency life-support cannot keep the<BR>ship warm enough to support life very long. So we have a bunch of cool<BR>scenes with the frozen watch bumbling about in the dark with flashlights. I<BR>am going to throw some evil alien fauna in as well... it was flash frozen in<BR>the sea, when it's ship crashed a few tens of thousand years ago, and the<BR>silly lab techs thought waking it up might be a _good_ idea (don't they<BR>teach don't wake the evil alien classes in xeno-biology?). :)<BR><BR>Helium is sounding better and better - with ammoinabergs ;)<BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson<BR>Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 8:47 PM<BR>To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Re: Seas of LOX<BR><BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Ok... What kinds of really really cold liquids would we see on a rouge<BR>&gt; planet?<BR><BR>I'd be surprised to see a *rouge* planet. A *rogue* planet is rather<BR>more likely. :-)<BR><BR>(rouge is a type of makeup, or a polishing compound)<BR><BR>Anything out beyond Pluto will likely be at temps near 3 K(elvin). At<BR>that temp *only* helium is liquid.<BR><BR>If there's still still some internal heat, you could get other<BR>compounds/elements as liquid.<BR><BR>Check Forward's "Camelot 30K" which is mostly set on a planet with a<BR>surface temp of 30 K.<BR><BR>Figure out an appropriate surface temp, then hit the library and check<BR>the table of inorganic compounds in the CRC Handbook of Chemistry and<BR>Physics.<BR><BR>Don't forget that Oxygen, Fluorine and Chlorine aren't going to be<BR>available as free elements. Nitrogen isn't likely to be either as there<BR>won't be enough UV to break it free from ammonia unless the planet is<BR>fairly near a star with a high UV output.<BR><BR>- --<BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3415<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Monday, December 18 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3416<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: (7) Summary - KB3 Traveller System (Playtest)<BR>Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote Democratic<BR>Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR>Re: Damn, it's a big country! (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>passport application<BR>RE: Lab Ship Deck Plans<BR>Re: Seas of LOX<BR>Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote Democratic<BR>Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR>Alan Dean Foster (was Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel)<BR>Re: Finnish and American RPGs<BR>Re: Damn, it's a big country! (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: Seas of LOX<BR>RE: Seas of LOX Silly<BR>Brian Daley (Re: Alan Dean Foster)<BR>[VEHICLE] GT TL 9 light civilian air/raft<BR>Re: Alan Dean Foster (was Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel)<BR>Re: Seas of LOX<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 00:18:50 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: (7) Summary - KB3 Traveller System (Playtest)<BR><BR>On 12/17/00 at 08:52 PM,&nbsp; Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;Quick Summary of the KB3 Traveller System....<BR><BR><BIG snip><BR><BR>Ken, at first read it looks solid and workable. I didn't see any obvious holes. Of course, as you said, it needs playtesting.&nbsp; <BR><BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 01:25:14 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote Democratic<BR><BR>At 10:58 PM -0700 12/17/00, Legate Legion wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I just turned on my Kenji-to-English translation program.<BR><BR>It's a damn unfair world when *you* have one of those and *I* don't.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;Right, well, I'm sure the Imperium -- despite its reliance on<BR>&gt;&gt;invisible hand-jobs from the free markets -- will have dedicated<BR>&gt;&gt;military 'procurement' corps, which hopefully Doug will write up<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;GURPS:Trav character templates for at once.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I hope so too.&nbsp; *weg*&nbsp; Of course why stop at hand-jobs from the free<BR>&gt;markets?<BR><BR>The more I think about it, Pimp really should be one of the basic <BR>"careers" in Trav char-gen.&nbsp; I can't think of anything that so <BR>seamlessly melds the "mercenaries" and "merchants" themes of the <BR>classic game.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;Pfffft.&nbsp; Useful?&nbsp; I don't think so.&nbsp; As we know, shipboard security<BR>&gt;&gt;is unnecessary because there is no piracy in the Imperium (recent<BR>&gt;&gt;song postings notwithstanding) and cargo operations will be wholly<BR>&gt;&gt;automated -- or rather, taken over by unemployed jump torpedos<BR>&gt;&gt;willing to work for cheap.&nbsp; No, I'm afraid all those vets are going<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;to just have to go on the game.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; What about Hi-Jackings?<BR><BR>No; drug drug addicts won't travel much in Traveller, since it'll be <BR>too expensive to have two parasitic vices.&nbsp; In fact, there probably <BR>won't be any drug abuse at all in or around the 3I -- it decreases <BR>one's economic performance, has no evolutionary advantage, makes one <BR>less competitive, and thus is simply irrelevant.<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 01:26:30 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>At 10:52 PM -0700 12/17/00, Legate Legion wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; True the French helped us out in the Revolution, but after the<BR>&gt;Revolution they wanted a tribute from us, spawning the famous American<BR>&gt;saying, "Millions for Defense, but not a penny in Tribute".<BR><BR>Oh... I thought that had something to do with public funding of <BR>education and arts.<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 01:37:05 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR><BR>At 9:03 PM -0700 12/17/00, Legate Legion wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Then I would like the hear a thank you for all of the time us arrogant<BR>&gt;Americans went to some country that didn't care about us &amp; we saved their<BR>&gt;lives.<BR><BR>Usually what I do when I get that craving is turn on the television, <BR>go to the movies, or read a newspaper or news magazine.&nbsp; They seem to <BR>be pretty good at keeping us informed how grateful the little people <BR>are for American goodness.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Then why do we export our culture, not because we have to, but because<BR>&gt;people want to see it.<BR><BR>being willing to purchase goods =! desire/admiration of their quality<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Everyone has a say in it.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;Even a leftist atheist like me?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Only if you live in the US.<BR><BR>Not technically true -- don't let's forget the black helicopters <BR>controlled by the United Nations, that snake in the grass of the Big <BR>Apple!!!<BR><BR>&gt;Wiccan, English, etc Cultural Influences.&nbsp; I love the 4th of July here in<BR>&gt;Phoenix.&nbsp; I can get an Eggroll, a Taco, Jumping Jack, &amp; Bar-B-Que all in one<BR>&gt;place.<BR><BR>Wow.&nbsp; So it's like Beijing any day of the year, then?<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 21:56:08 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Damn, it's a big country! (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; On Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:50:05 -0500 (EST), shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard<BR>&gt; Erickson) wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;I recall (back in the late fifties) travelling from Spokane to NYC and<BR>&gt;&gt;back by *train*. We are talking a multi day trip each way. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Six days, changing trains in Chicago.<BR><BR>We went by way of Kansas...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:41:27 -0800<BR>From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: passport application<BR><BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&gt;At 5:11 AM -0800 12/17/00, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; And screw your job over nicely in doing so ;(&nbsp; My passport got yanked<BR>last year,<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Ouch. Who did *you* piss off?<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;I didn't exactly piss anyone off, just managed to appeal to their<BR>suspicious and bigoted natures with my application for a passport renewal.<BR>Until the State Department investigates &amp; satisfies itself about former<BR>(which they're not actually making any effort to do, perhaps because of the<BR>latter), I can't travel.&nbsp; Or, it seems, vote.<BR>&gt;<BR>Dear gods and buddhas, Kenji, this would only happen to you, wouldn't<BR>it!?!?!<BR><BR>Now I'm afraid to tell the State Department I need to change the name on my<BR>passport.&nbsp; (It still has my ex-husband's last name on it, and I'm tired of<BR>booking flights as "Kiri Ho".&nbsp; Not to mention when Hiroshi and I were<BR>together it irritated him greatly.)<BR><BR>&gt; And possibly not work, though if my tribal enrollment comes through, I may<BR>have found a particularly satisfyingly absurd work-around to *that* problem<BR>:)<BR>&gt;<BR>"Tribal enrollment"????????<BR><BR>What's this all about?<BR><BR>&gt;ObTrav:&nbsp; Um... can someone be an Imperial citizen without being a citizen<BR>or legal resident of *any* Imperial world?<BR>&gt;<BR>I should think so.&nbsp; My ex husband's mother was born in China during WWII and<BR>was a small child when her family fled to Hong Kong.&nbsp; On top of that, she<BR>was the daughter of her father's concubine, not his wife.&nbsp; She had no birth<BR>certificate nor any proof of citizenship until she became a US citizen, yet<BR>she had some kind of papers from somewhere that stated enough about who she<BR>was and what she was about that she was able to enter the US at the request<BR>of her sister, who had become a US citizen after marrying a Chinese<BR>American.<BR><BR>Unfortunately as the divorce was rather bitter, I can't just call her up and<BR>ask her about it, even though it's her son I am pissed at, not her.<BR><BR>kiri-chan yori ^_^<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 01:05:52 -0600<BR>From: "Brandon Cope" &lt;copeab@mail.elc.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Lab Ship Deck Plans<BR><BR>From: "tsykoduk" &lt;tsykoduk@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;Thanks! I also found a PDF at:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;http://www.daneveland.com/traveller/<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;It does not look like I remember them to be, but is a workable beginning :)<BR><BR>It matches the plans in Traveller's Digest #16 for the most part.<BR><BR>Brandon<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 18:22:28 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Seas of LOX<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt; Or it could be a convenient way to store LOX. After all, at *those*<BR>&gt; temps it won't react very fast.<BR><BR>True enough.&nbsp; You'd want a fully oxidised crust though, or a little<BR>bit of space-dust hitting at 60 km/s might set the whole world on fire<BR>:^)<BR><BR><BR>&gt; 3 K is as low as it can get. That's equilibrium with the background<BR>&gt; radiation from the Big Bang. <BR><BR>Yep, question is how close can you get to that?&nbsp; Helium vaporises at<BR>only about 1 K above that at 100kPa, probably lower if there isn't<BR>much of an atmosphere.<BR><BR>&gt; How far out you have to be for that to overwhelm stellar radiation<BR>&gt; I'm not sure.<BR><BR>Hmm -- shouldn't be too hard to work out, now that I'm interested<BR>enough :^)<BR><BR>Given the luminosity of the galactic arms (assuming it is simlar to<BR>andromeda), the flux would be approximately 60 uW/m^2 in deep<BR>interstellar space.&nbsp; That's a black-body temperature of about 6K.&nbsp; It<BR>looks like liquid helium is out, since this is above helium's critical<BR>point.&nbsp; A dense helium atmosphere above hydrogen oceans looks likely,<BR>or even a solid hydrogen crust.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; So while these photons can trigger chemical reactions in individual<BR>&gt; molecules, they won't *heat* things significantly.<BR><BR>They don't need to -- helium boils at *very* low temperatures.&nbsp; I knew<BR>that starlight gives almost no heat, and that helium boils at almost<BR>zero temperature.&nbsp; The only question was which "almost zero" was<BR>smaller.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 00:30:45 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote Democratic<BR><BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&gt;At 10:58 PM -0700 12/17/00, Legate Legion wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I just turned on my Kenji-to-English translation program.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;It's a damn unfair world when *you* have one of those and *I* don't.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Well, I did have some of the best psychologists &amp; programers work on it.<BR>I told them I wanted someone who would do something in a country club with<BR>salad oil, &amp; they worked on it for many, many years.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &gt;Right, well, I'm sure the Imperium -- despite its reliance on<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;invisible hand-jobs from the free markets -- will have dedicated<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;military 'procurement' corps, which hopefully Doug will write up<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &gt;GURPS:Trav character templates for at once.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I hope so too.&nbsp; *weg*&nbsp; Of course why stop at hand-jobs from the free<BR>&gt;&gt;markets?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;The more I think about it, Pimp really should be one of the basic<BR>&gt;"careers" in Trav char-gen.&nbsp; I can't think of anything that so<BR>&gt;seamlessly melds the "mercenaries" and "merchants" themes of the<BR>&gt;classic game.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; LOL.&nbsp; True, but what about the Mac Daddies &amp; Hos?<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &gt;Pfffft.&nbsp; Useful?&nbsp; I don't think so.&nbsp; As we know, shipboard security<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;is unnecessary because there is no piracy in the Imperium (recent<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;song postings notwithstanding) and cargo operations will be wholly<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;automated -- or rather, taken over by unemployed jump torpedos<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;willing to work for cheap.&nbsp; No, I'm afraid all those vets are going<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &gt;to just have to go on the game.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; What about Hi-Jackings?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;No; drug drug addicts won't travel much in Traveller, since it'll be<BR>&gt;too expensive to have two parasitic vices.&nbsp; In fact, there probably<BR>&gt;won't be any drug abuse at all in or around the 3I -- it decreases<BR>&gt;one's economic performance, has no evolutionary advantage, makes one<BR>&gt;less competitive, and thus is simply irrelevant.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Unlike pirates I will agree with you there.&nbsp; Pirates are usable, but<BR>Hi-Jackers are not.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 00:31:25 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; True the French helped us out in the Revolution, but after the<BR>&gt;&gt;Revolution they wanted a tribute from us, spawning the famous American<BR>&gt;&gt;saying, "Millions for Defense, but not a penny in Tribute".<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Oh... I thought that had something to do with public funding of<BR>&gt;education and arts.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Where do you think the money for Santa's Black Ops Elves come from?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 00:33:37 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR><BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Then I would like the hear a thank you for all of the time us<BR>arrogant<BR>&gt;&gt;Americans went to some country that didn't care about us &amp; we saved their<BR>&gt;&gt;lives.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Usually what I do when I get that craving is turn on the television,<BR>&gt;go to the movies, or read a newspaper or news magazine.&nbsp; They seem to<BR>&gt;be pretty good at keeping us informed how grateful the little people<BR>&gt;are for American goodness.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; True, but then they turn around &amp; blow away the hero's buddy 2 days<BR>before he is due to retire.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Then why do we export our culture, not because we have to, but<BR>because<BR>&gt;&gt;people want to see it.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;being willing to purchase goods =! desire/admiration of their quality<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Correct, if you don't like the quality, then don't buy it.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Everyone has a say in it.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &gt;Even a leftist atheist like me?<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Only if you live in the US.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Not technically true -- don't let's forget the black helicopters<BR>&gt;controlled by the United Nations, that snake in the grass of the Big<BR>&gt;Apple!!!<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; There are no such things at Black Helicopters or Snakes in the Grass,<BR>Kenji.&nbsp; Btw, what are those men in lab coats doing behind you?<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Wiccan, English, etc Cultural Influences.&nbsp; I love the 4th of July here in<BR>&gt;&gt;Phoenix.&nbsp; I can get an Eggroll, a Taco, Jumping Jack, &amp; Bar-B-Que all in<BR>one<BR>&gt;&gt;place.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Wow.&nbsp; So it's like Beijing any day of the year, then?<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Basicly, but without all the hookers, pimps, &amp; beer.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 03:03:07 EST<BR>From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>Subject: Alan Dean Foster (was Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel)<BR><BR>"Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt; sayeth:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; You want to know something funny, Ken?&nbsp; On one hand, this sounds like<BR>&gt;what Star Wars fans said when they heard Alan Dean Foster was going to write<BR>&gt;some Star Wars Novels.&nbsp; While I have not read anything written by him, I am<BR>&gt;willing to give him the benifit of the doubt.<BR><BR>Just when were they hearing this about Foster?<BR>I ask because he is the original SW fic author. He is widely considered to <BR>be George Lucas' ghostwriter for the novel version of the first Star Wars, <BR>and he was the first to publish a SW novel outside of the movie canon. The <BR>only other author who approaches his seniority in SW fic is DEAD (sadly, <BR>because he was also a wonderful Travelleresque author). Foster just had the <BR>sense to get out of SW fic back when it was still respectable and do his own <BR>stuff.<BR>Foster original works are easily droppable into Traveller, Shadowrun, Rifts <BR>or (in a few cases) D&amp;D. Given your stated game preferences, Legate, you <BR>should fill this gap in your reading...<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; On the other hand, Alan Dean<BR>&gt;Foster is not Jerry Pournelle, Larry Niven, Issac Asimov, Ray Bradberry, or<BR>&gt;RAH.&nbsp; On the gripping hand, no one else is Jerry Pournelle, Larry Niven,<BR>&gt;Issac Asimov, Ray Bradberry, or RAH.<BR><BR>If we take these authors as representing a range of talent, then Foster is <BR>certainly within that range, IMO. YMWV.<BR><BR>GC<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 10:41:49 +0200 (EET)<BR>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Finnish and American RPGs<BR><BR>On Sun, 17 Dec 2000, James Jensen wrote:<BR>&gt; indeed, in gaming). BTW, Mikko, have you tried RIP (it's not just fantasy)?<BR>&gt; It's Finnish. And Free.<BR><BR>Well, yes, I have played RIP Fantasy. I would try Syndicate (Cyberpunk)<BR>if I had the time.<BR><BR>The author of RIP happens to be a very good friend of mine. I told you<BR>Finland (and Helsinki region especially) is very small place. B-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>+++++++++[&gt;+++++++++&lt;-]&gt;-.&lt;+++++[&gt;+++&lt;-]++&gt;++.&lt;++[&gt;++++&lt;-]+&gt;+.&lt;++[&gt;----<BR>&lt;-]&gt;-.&gt;+++[&gt;++++++++++&lt;-]++&gt;++pare@iki.fi&lt;+[&gt;++++&lt;-]&gt;+.-&gt;+[&gt;++++[&lt;&lt;---&gt;<BR>&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;.&gt;&gt;+++++++[&lt;++++++++++&gt;-]++++[&lt;+++++&gt;-]&lt;-.&gt;[-]&gt;+++[&gt;++[&lt;&lt;&lt;----&gt;&gt;<BR>&lt;&gt;&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;&lt;.+.&gt;[-]++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;.++.[-]&gt;[-]++++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;++.&gt;&gt;++[&gt;++[&gt;-&lt;-]&lt;--]<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 10:55:08 +0200 (EET)<BR>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Damn, it's a big country! (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>On Sun, 17 Dec 2000 eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>&gt; from my nation's capital, and 4000 km from Doug. Yes, the US is a big<BR>&gt; country, but so are Canada and Australia so don't feel like I'm leaving<BR>&gt; you out. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Australia isn't just a country, it is a continent!<BR><BR>And the US is small... What have you, four time zones? Our friendly<BR>eastern neighbour spans eleven, count them, eleven time zones.<BR><BR>(Ok, Hawaii might count as fifth, I don't know.)<BR><BR>Try to imagine te rigour of driving from St. Petersburg to Vladivostok to<BR>see your relatives. On Russian roads. They don't even really exist in some<BR>places. (Of course, the public transportation in Russia might be better<BR>than in the US. At least, I know some people who traveller by train From<BR>Finland to Mongolia, through Russia...)<BR><BR>And yes, I will visit the US before Russia. I have seen and heard enough<BR>of our eastern neighbour not to want visit it.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>+++++++++[&gt;+++++++++&lt;-]&gt;-.&lt;+++++[&gt;+++&lt;-]++&gt;++.&lt;++[&gt;++++&lt;-]+&gt;+.&lt;++[&gt;----<BR>&lt;-]&gt;-.&gt;+++[&gt;++++++++++&lt;-]++&gt;++pare@iki.fi&lt;+[&gt;++++&lt;-]&gt;+.-&gt;+[&gt;++++[&lt;&lt;---&gt;<BR>&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;.&gt;&gt;+++++++[&lt;++++++++++&gt;-]++++[&lt;+++++&gt;-]&lt;-.&gt;[-]&gt;+++[&gt;++[&lt;&lt;&lt;----&gt;&gt;<BR>&lt;&gt;&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;&lt;.+.&gt;[-]++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;.++.[-]&gt;[-]++++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;++.&gt;&gt;++[&gt;++[&gt;-&lt;-]&lt;--]<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 10:57:34 +0200 (EET)<BR>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Seas of LOX<BR><BR>&lt;silly&gt;<BR>On Sun, 17 Dec 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; &gt; Ok... What kinds of really really cold liquids would we see on a rouge<BR>&gt; &gt; planet?<BR>&gt; I'd be surprised to see a *rouge* planet. A *rogue* planet is rather<BR>&gt; more likely. :-)<BR>&gt; (rouge is a type of makeup, or a polishing compound)<BR><BR>Or, if you speak French, 'rouge' means 'red'.<BR><BR>C'est joli, parce que nous avions un planet rouge : Mars...<BR>(pardon the lack of accents...)<BR><BR>&lt;/silly&gt;<BR><BR>- -- <BR>+++++++++[&gt;+++++++++&lt;-]&gt;-.&lt;+++++[&gt;+++&lt;-]++&gt;++.&lt;++[&gt;++++&lt;-]+&gt;+.&lt;++[&gt;----<BR>&lt;-]&gt;-.&gt;+++[&gt;++++++++++&lt;-]++&gt;++pare@iki.fi&lt;+[&gt;++++&lt;-]&gt;+.-&gt;+[&gt;++++[&lt;&lt;---&gt;<BR>&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;.&gt;&gt;+++++++[&lt;++++++++++&gt;-]++++[&lt;+++++&gt;-]&lt;-.&gt;[-]&gt;+++[&gt;++[&lt;&lt;&lt;----&gt;&gt;<BR>&lt;&gt;&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;&lt;.+.&gt;[-]++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;.++.[-]&gt;[-]++++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;++.&gt;&gt;++[&gt;++[&gt;-&lt;-]&lt;--]<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 09:03:34 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Seas of LOX Silly<BR><BR>While we're being silly, what kind of fish would you get swimming in Seas of<BR>Lox? I'd be tempted to think smoked salmon :)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &lt;silly&gt;<BR>&gt; On Sun, 17 Dec 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Ok... What kinds of really really cold liquids would we <BR>&gt; see on a rouge<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; planet?<BR>&gt; &gt; I'd be surprised to see a *rouge* planet. A *rogue* planet is rather<BR>&gt; &gt; more likely. :-)<BR>&gt; &gt; (rouge is a type of makeup, or a polishing compound)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Or, if you speak French, 'rouge' means 'red'.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; C'est joli, parce que nous avions un planet rouge : Mars...<BR>&gt; (pardon the lack of accents...)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &lt;/silly&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; -- <BR>&gt; +++++++++[&gt;+++++++++&lt;-]&gt;-.&lt;+++++[&gt;+++&lt;-]++&gt;++.&lt;++[&gt;++++&lt;-]+&gt;+.<BR>&gt; &lt;++[&gt;----<BR>&gt; &lt;-]&gt;-.&gt;+++[&gt;++++++++++&lt;-]++&gt;++pare@iki.fi&lt;+[&gt;++++&lt;-]&gt;+.-&gt;+[&gt;++<BR>&gt; ++[&lt;&lt;---&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;.&gt;&gt;+++++++[&lt;++++++++++&gt;-]++++[&lt;+++++&gt;-]&lt;-.&gt;[-]&gt;+++[&gt;++[<BR>&gt; &lt;&lt;&lt;----&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &lt;&gt;&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;&lt;.+.&gt;[-]++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;.++.[-]&gt;[-]++++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;++.&gt;&gt;++[&gt;++[<BR>&gt; &gt;-&lt;-]&lt;--]<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 03:16:39 -0600<BR>From: "Brandon Cope" &lt;copeab@mail.elc.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Brian Daley (Re: Alan Dean Foster)<BR><BR>From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Just when were they hearing this about Foster?<BR>&gt; I ask because he is the original SW fic author. He is widely considered to <BR>&gt;be George Lucas' ghostwriter for the novel version of the first Star Wars, <BR>&gt;and he was the first to publish a SW novel outside of the movie canon. The <BR>&gt;only other author who approaches his seniority in SW fic is DEAD (sadly, <BR>&gt;because he was also a wonderful Travelleresque author). <BR><BR>Once again, I am the last person to find out about someome passing on ... only 4 years late this time ...<BR><BR>I've got seven of his novels (Tapestry of Magic, the Han Solo trilogy and the Floyt/Fitzhugh trilogy). Damn, I liked his writing.<BR><BR>Brandon<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 03:22:17 -0600<BR>From: "Brandon Cope" &lt;copeab@mail.elc.net&gt;<BR>Subject: [VEHICLE] GT TL 9 light civilian air/raft<BR><BR>This was the first vehicle (done about three weeks ago) I designed using the system in GT: Ground Forces. Since NPU modules are far too expensive for civilian designs (and rather inefficient at TL9), I created a gas turbine module (I posted this the other day, I think). I also have TL9/10 MHD modules for use when I need a closed cycle powerplant (I'll post those later with other designs).<BR><BR>Light Air/Raft, Planetary, TL9<BR><BR>This represents an early air/raft that might be used by civilians on<BR>worlds with breathable atmospheres. While rated top speed is 236 mph,<BR>because of the exposed seating top speed is limited to about 150 mph<BR>(this can go a bit higher is everyone is wearing vacc suits).<BR><BR>Subassemblies: Body +3<BR>P&amp;P: 110 kW gas turbine, 2 light CGs, 1 Thruster, 1 Fuel Tank (5.4 hrs<BR>duration, fire chance 6)<BR>Occ: 1 XRCS, 3 XRS&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Cargo: 5.6 (Exposed) Body<BR><BR>Armor&nbsp; &nbsp; F&nbsp; &nbsp; RL&nbsp; &nbsp; B&nbsp; &nbsp; T&nbsp; &nbsp; U<BR>Body&nbsp;&nbsp; 4/20&nbsp; 4/20&nbsp; 4/20 4/20 4/20<BR><BR>Weaponry<BR>none<BR><BR>Equipment<BR>Body: Basic Avionics, Safety<BR><BR>Statistics<BR>Size: ?&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Payload: 0.9 tons&nbsp;&nbsp; LWt: 2.139 tons<BR>Volume: 0.3 dtons&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Price: KCr 51.78<BR><BR>HT: 12&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; HP: 260 [body]<BR><BR>aSpeed: 236&nbsp; &nbsp; aAccel: 7.5&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; aDecel: 14&nbsp; &nbsp; aMR: 3.5&nbsp; &nbsp; aSR: 5<BR>CG lift<BR><BR>Design Notes<BR>Frame is medium for 0.3 dton body. Gas Turbine is Core only. 33 gallons<BR>diesel fuel $40 and 198 lbs. The second CG unit is carried for safety<BR>and is not turned on unless the first one fails. There is a 2.54 kW<BR>power shortfall -- normally, this isn't a problem, since the thrusters<BR>can get by on less than full power.<BR><BR>A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>Brandon Cope<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/copeab<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 02:34:08 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Alan Dean Foster (was Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel)<BR><BR>From: GypsyComet@aol.com &lt;GypsyComet@aol.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; You want to know something funny, Ken?&nbsp; On one hand, this sounds like<BR>&gt;&gt;what Star Wars fans said when they heard Alan Dean Foster was going to<BR>write<BR>&gt;&gt;some Star Wars Novels.&nbsp; While I have not read anything written by him, I<BR>am<BR>&gt;&gt;willing to give him the benifit of the doubt.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Just when were they hearing this about Foster?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Mostly from fans of SW when they heard he was writing a "Splinter in the<BR>Minds Eye", one of the best expanded universe SW books, IMHO.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I should have made it clear about ADF, should I have not?&nbsp; I LOVE ADF.<BR><BR>&gt; I ask because he is the original SW fic author. He is widely considered to<BR>&gt;be George Lucas' ghostwriter for the novel version of the first Star Wars,<BR>&gt;and he was the first to publish a SW novel outside of the movie canon. The<BR>&gt;only other author who approaches his seniority in SW fic is DEAD (sadly,<BR>&gt;because he was also a wonderful Travelleresque author). Foster just had the<BR>&gt;sense to get out of SW fic back when it was still respectable and do his<BR>own<BR>&gt;stuff.<BR>&gt; Foster original works are easily droppable into Traveller, Shadowrun,<BR>Rifts<BR>&gt;or (in a few cases) D&amp;D. Given your stated game preferences, Legate, you<BR>&gt;should fill this gap in your reading...<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Actually, GC, I love Alan Dean Foster, though I prefer his "Legion of<BR>the Damned" books myself.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; On the other hand, Alan Dean<BR>&gt;&gt;Foster is not Jerry Pournelle, Larry Niven, Issac Asimov, Ray Bradberry,<BR>or<BR>&gt;&gt;RAH.&nbsp; On the gripping hand, no one else is Jerry Pournelle, Larry Niven,<BR>&gt;&gt;Issac Asimov, Ray Bradberry, or RAH.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; If we take these authors as representing a range of talent, then Foster is<BR>&gt;certainly within that range, IMO. YMWV.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; To my he is a close second stringer.&nbsp; If I see two books that I do not<BR>have by one of these authors &amp; one by ADF,&nbsp; then I choose depending upon how<BR>much money I have.&nbsp; If I have enough for both, then I buy both, if not, then<BR>one from these authors.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 23:00:32 +1300<BR>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Seas of LOX<BR><BR>On 17 Dec 00, at 20:47, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Ok... What kinds of really really cold liquids would we see on a rouge<BR>&gt; &gt; planet?<BR><BR>&gt; I'd be surprised to see a *rouge* planet. A *rogue* planet is rather<BR>&gt; more likely. :-)<BR><BR>Mars?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3416<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-xd02.mx.aol.com (rly-xd02.mail.aol.com [172.20.105.167]) by air-xd03.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 05:11:21 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-xd02.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 05:10:54 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id EAA48256;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 04:57:38 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Mon, 18 Dec 2000 04:57:23 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id EAA47983<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 04:57:23 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 04:57:23 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012180957.EAA47983@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3416<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></BIG></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Monday, December 18 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3417<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Imperial Citizenship (was: Naming laws)<BR>Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR>Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>RE: The New Traveller Task System<BR>RE: The New Traveller Task System<BR>RE: The New Traveller Task System<BR>RE: Seas of LOX Silly<BR>RE: The New Traveller Task System<BR>RE: Seas of LOX Silly<BR>Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Seas of LOX<BR>Re: Seas of LOX<BR>Re: Seas of LOX Silly<BR>Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote<BR>Re: Seas of LOX<BR>Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR>RE: Culture (was: American and Finnish RPGs)<BR>Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Teleporter for sale register interest now!<BR>RE: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology<BR>RE: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology<BR>Re: AHHH! Sailor Moon!<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 23:00:32 +1300<BR>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Imperial Citizenship (was: Naming laws)<BR><BR>On 17 Dec 00, at 22:56, Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; ObTrav:&nbsp; Um... can someone be an Imperial citizen without being a <BR>&gt; citizen or legal resident of *any* Imperial world?<BR><BR>Yes, according the warrant of restoration, the requirements for Imperial <BR>Citizenship are:<BR><BR>"The Imperium considers as citizens any living recognised sentient <BR>creature native to or naturalised by a member world of the Imperium, or any <BR>living recognised sentient creature swearing fealty to the Imperium directly"<BR><BR>Plus in Tarsus, there is a mention that honourable service in the Imperial <BR>military will get you citzenship.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 10:53:55 +0000<BR>From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@h2g2.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR><BR>Legate Legion wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Then I would like the hear a thank you for all of the time us arrogant<BR>&gt; Americans went to some country that didn't care about us &amp; we saved their<BR>&gt; lives.<BR><BR>Yeah, I like the episode of "The Simpsons" where Burns steals the<BR>million dollar bill, too.<BR>(cough)Marshall Plan(cough).<BR><BR>- - Rob.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 10:59:28 +0000<BR>From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@h2g2.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>Meat sauce would be good, as manipulated in by the Hivers along the<BR>border of the Two Thousand Worlds. I'll bet the recipe is available on<BR>Imperial BBSes to taunt K'Kree with. Shish-K'Kree, or similar. :-)<BR><BR>- - Rob.<BR><BR>Daniel Phelps wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Yes but what kind of sauce/marinade/style of cooking, a Carolina style pig<BR>&gt; picken with a vinagar base, or grilled with a Georgia mustard based sauce or<BR>&gt; Tennessee hickory smoked with a tomato based sauce or Texas brisket style<BR>&gt; with sausage and beans?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Say how about K'kree chilli, or chops done like Cuban pork or perhaps that<BR>&gt; leg done like Greek leg of lamb on a bed of saffron rice or even<BR>&gt; SHISH-K-BOBed with couscous, humus,&nbsp; tabouli and pita bread?<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Rob Myers - http://www.robmyers.org/&nbsp;&nbsp; H2G2 - http://www.h2g2.com/<BR>MacOS wonderfulness for The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy Game.<BR>"Smash Global Capitalism! Spend less money!"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:07:32 -0000<BR>From: Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: The New Traveller Task System<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions<BR>&gt; eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; ...or something of the sort.&nbsp; Ken, d6 was your "thing" last time we<BR>&gt; &gt; talked about this. Why wouldn't Traveller convert over to d6?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; D6, in my opinion, is the best rules systems I've ever seen (and I<BR>&gt; haven't seen all of them).&nbsp; It is still on the top of my list...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ..but, that's Star Wars' system, not Traveller's.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I think D6 would work nicely with Traveller, but you'd have to remake<BR>&gt; the patented Traveller chargen system--and I'm just not <BR>&gt; willing to give<BR>&gt; that up in Traveller.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; No, Traveller needs its own system--one that works well with <BR>&gt; characters<BR>&gt; whose stats range from 2-15, with 7 representing an average human--and<BR>&gt; with skills that range from level 0-5 or even 6 or higher.<BR><BR>How about something based around Shadowrun 3E? Divide Trav stat by 2 to<BR>give stats in the 1-8 range, avg ~4. Skills range is about the same...<BR>(possibly need to double basic LBB chargen skill levels...)<BR><BR>Of course, if you don't like dice pools or open-ended die rolls, then<BR>this wouldn't be the system for you...<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:15:34 +0000<BR>From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@h2g2.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: The New Traveller Task System<BR><BR>I'm a big fan of 2d6 + modifiers.&nbsp; It's Traveller's core mechanic, and there are no good reasons why it shouldn't be the core mechanic for the task system.<BR>Dice-pool systems are so late-80s, and an intrusive mechanic as well.<BR><BR>- - Rob.<BR><BR><BR>On Monday, December 18, 2000, at 11:07 AM, Matt Bond wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; No, Traveller needs its own system--one that works well with&nbsp; <BR>&gt; &gt; characters <BR>&gt; &gt; whose stats range from 2-15, with 7 representing an average human--and <BR>&gt; &gt; with skills that range from level 0-5 or even 6 or higher. <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; How about something based around Shadowrun 3E? Divide Trav stat by 2 to <BR>&gt; give stats in the 1-8 range, avg ~4. Skills range is about the same... <BR>&gt; (possibly need to double basic LBB chargen skill levels...) <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; Of course, if you don't like dice pools or open-ended die rolls, then <BR>&gt; this wouldn't be the system for you... <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:41:57 -0000<BR>From: Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: The New Traveller Task System<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Rob Myers [mailto:robm@h2g2.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 18 December 2000 11:16<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: The New Traveller Task System<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I'm a big fan of 2d6 + modifiers.&nbsp; It's Traveller's core <BR>&gt; mechanic, and there are no good reasons why it shouldn't be <BR>&gt; the core mechanic for the task system.<BR>&gt; Dice-pool systems are so late-80s, and an intrusive mechanic as well.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; - Rob.<BR><BR>Errr... does it matter when a system originated...<BR><BR>You could just as easily say "2d6 + Modifiers, that's so 70's"...<BR><BR>Still, Maths eh?... so Greek...<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:55:52 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Seas of LOX Silly<BR><BR>Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt; While we're being silly, what kind of fish would you get swimming<BR>&gt; in Seas of Lox? I'd be tempted to think smoked salmon :)<BR><BR>Dammit, Dean, I was going to say that!<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:54:30 +0000<BR>From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@h2g2.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: The New Traveller Task System<BR><BR>On Monday, December 18, 2000, at 11:41 AM, Matt Bond wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Errr... does it matter when a system originated... <BR><BR>It does if a classic is being replaced with an outdated, mood-breaking fad.<BR><BR>&gt; You could just as easily say "2d6 + Modifiers, that's so 70's"... <BR><BR>Well, 2d6 is the gambler's tool as well. It's a more general cultural phenomena than BoD systems.<BR><BR>&gt; Still, Maths eh?... so Greek... <BR><BR>Carved animal bones it is, then. :-)<BR><BR>- - Rob<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:59:48 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Seas of LOX Silly<BR><BR>:)<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Trevor, Peter [mailto:Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 18 December 2000 11:56<BR>&gt; To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Seas of LOX Silly<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; While we're being silly, what kind of fish would you get swimming<BR>&gt; &gt; in Seas of Lox? I'd be tempted to think smoked salmon :)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dammit, Dean, I was going to say that!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Regards PLST<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 04:13:21 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Now, for something more serioius!&nbsp; I say it's spelled barbecue, is a<BR>&gt; sauce/marinade/style of cooking, not a dish made of spicy loose meat served<BR>&gt; on a bun, includes tomatoes *and* mustard, is both sweet, tart, and hot, and<BR>&gt; would be a perfect way of serving leg of K'kree!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Sounds good, but do you mind if I have Rib of K'kree?&nbsp; The leg I find to<BR>&gt; be a bit stringy.<BR><BR>You need to beat on it with a baseball bat for a few hours before<BR>butchering. Makes it a lot more tender...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 04:15:05 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Hmmm... Inspirations from the Japanese take-out menu:<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;K'kree katsu.<BR>&gt;&gt;K'kree negimayaki<BR>&gt;&gt;K'kree teriyaki<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; You know I am thinking we should have a Monthly Pot Luck as well as<BR>&gt; Jesse's Monthly Fun Shoot.&nbsp; Maybe combine the two, or have a K'kree hunt &amp;<BR>&gt; put the game in the stew pot?<BR><BR>ObTrav:<BR><BR>The PCs and a group of K'Kree have been captured by an unknown party.<BR>They are told that they will be released in different parts of a large<BR>island. Only some of the vegtation is edible by K'kree. None is edible<BR>by humans. None of the animals are edible by humans. And the terrain<BR>doesn't favor either side. When all members of one of the groups are<BR>dead, the survivors will be transported home.<BR><BR>Is the unknown party going to keep its word? Is it doing some sort of<BR>research? Are the recordings made (cameras and other sensors will be<BR>visible from time to time) going to be used to blackmail the party?<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 04:21:50 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; From: Douglas E. Berry &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;Douglas, do you feel the same about San Francisco (or California, although<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;that is bigger) as the States, as government? As SF is as big as Finland,<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;and EU is about the same as the US, I think I can feel the same as you<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;towards the big ones. B-/<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Well, culturally California is two states: NorCal and the Evil Hordes of<BR>&gt;&gt;SoCal.&nbsp; We live in God's Own Land.&nbsp; They live in a blasted desert and try<BR>&gt;&gt;to steal our water.&nbsp; We have the Giants, they have the Dodgers (spit.)&nbsp; All<BR>&gt;&gt;of our state politics is a balancing act between these two cultural groups<BR>&gt;&gt;(and some in the northern parts of the state don't even want to claim the<BR>&gt;&gt;Bay Area!)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; And, what about your electrical power, do they try &amp; steal that as well?<BR><BR>No, they steal *that* from Oregon. :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 04:23:14 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; From: Leonard Erickson &lt;shadow@krypton.rain.com&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Kenji, take your damn drug-drug now.&nbsp; That person had been slamming<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; America &amp; Americans for too long.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;No more (or less) than you've been slamming Finland.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; After he slammed America.&nbsp; After, not before.<BR><BR>Weren't you one of the folks making snide comments about the naming<BR>laws? <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 04:24:22 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Seas of LOX<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; On 12/17/00 at 06:16 PM,&nbsp; "tsykoduk" &lt;tsykoduk@bigfoot.com&gt; said:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Ok... What kinds of really really cold liquids would we see on a<BR>&gt;&gt;rouge planet?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Nitrogen?&nbsp; Ammonia, Methane?<BR><BR>You don't get free nitrogen unless you are close enough to a UV source<BR>to break down the ammonia faster than the nitrogen will recombine with<BR>the hydrogen. Which occurs fairly rapidly on a gelogical timescale.<BR><BR>Ammonia freezes at -77.74 C, which is *way* warmer than it gets even on<BR>Pluto (50 K = -223 C)<BR><BR>Methane freezes at -182.4 C. Ethane at -182.8, Butane at -138.2. So we<BR>can give up on the organics.<BR><BR>A quick check of the CRC handbook shows the following as the *only*<BR>inorganic compounds that having melting points below -200 C.<BR><BR>Fluorine&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -219.66<BR>Fluorine monoxide&nbsp; &nbsp; -223.8<BR>Hydrogen&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -259.34<BR>Neon&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -248.59<BR>Nitrogen&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -210.00<BR>Oxygen&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -218.79<BR><BR>Of these, fluorine, fluorine monoxide and oxygen are *far* to active to<BR>exist without something regenerating them constantly. Nitrogen is less<BR>active, but is still hard to explain. Besides, only flourine monoxide<BR>would be liquid on Pluto, and only *just* liquid. <BR><BR>That leaves hydrogen, neon, and helium. Helium got left off the above<BR>list because it's still a liquid at absolute zero!<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; mp&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; bp<BR>Helium&nbsp; &nbsp; n/a&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 4.22 K<BR>Hydrogen&nbsp; 13.81 K&nbsp; 20.28 K<BR>Neon&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 24.56 K&nbsp; 27.07 K<BR><BR>Keep in mind that liquid helium can do some weird tricks, especially if<BR>conditions have allowed it to be isotopically seperated and form helium<BR>II (a superfluid).<BR><BR>Helium II does things like run uphill. And flow thru gas tight joints.<BR><BR>Oops, scratch that. You only get Helium II at temps below 2.174 K,<BR>which can't occur naturally on the surface of a body exposed to space.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 05:07:29 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Seas of LOX<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;blush&lt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Yeah Any really cold liquid will do just fine.. Here is the basic plot and<BR>&gt; feel free to shoot holes in it..<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The Team are frozen watch on a deep space lab ship - they awake one day and<BR>&gt; find the crew dead and the ship submerged in a sea of &lt;insert really cold<BR>&gt; liquid&gt;. The PP is off line, and the emergency life-support cannot keep the<BR>&gt; ship warm enough to support life very long. So we have a bunch of cool<BR>&gt; scenes with the frozen watch bumbling about in the dark with flashlights. I<BR>&gt; am going to throw some evil alien fauna in as well... it was flash frozen in<BR>&gt; the sea, when it's ship crashed a few tens of thousand years ago, and the<BR>&gt; silly lab techs thought waking it up might be a _good_ idea (don't they<BR>&gt; teach don't wake the evil alien classes in xeno-biology?). :)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Helium is sounding better and better - with ammoinabergs ;)<BR><BR>As noted in another message, helium *boils* at about 4 K. That's rather<BR>cool, even for interstellar space. Hydrogen will work (you can have<BR>free hydrogen simply because there's so much that it runs out of things<BR>to combine with it). So will neon.<BR><BR>BTW, there won't be any "bergs" of most things. Water is almost unique<BR>in having a solid state that will *float* on the liquid state. <BR><BR>And I suspect that a check check of the densities will show that<BR>nothing much can float in hydrogen. *Maybe* something could float in<BR>neon. But I wouldn't count on it.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 07:25:58 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Seas of LOX Silly<BR><BR>"Trevor, Peter" wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; While we're being silly, what kind of fish would you get swimming<BR>&gt; &gt; in Seas of Lox? I'd be tempted to think smoked salmon :)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dammit, Dean, I was going to say that!<BR><BR>And islands of bagels?<BR><BR>- -- <BR>AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 08:53:42 -0500<BR>From: knightsky@juno.com<BR>Subject: Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>I don't think the arrogance would bother us nearly as much if we didn't<BR>have to rescue them from the Germans every few decades or so... :-)<BR><BR><BR>&gt; We just can't stand for anyone more arogant than ourselves.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; I've never understood American hatred of the French, they are your <BR>&gt; oldest<BR>&gt; allies<BR>&gt; &gt; after all.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Perry<BR>"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>________________________________________________________________<BR>GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!<BR>Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!<BR>Join Juno today!&nbsp; For your FREE software, visit:<BR>http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 08:55:05 -0500<BR>From: knightsky@juno.com<BR>Subject: Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>&gt; Now about accents... Zhodani have arabic accents, Vilani are <BR>&gt; japanese, Solomani are german, Sword Worlders are swedish, Darrians <BR>&gt; are spanish, Genoee are dutch, and Imperials are upper-crust <BR>&gt; british. I don't hate anyone enough to stick them with the french. <BR>&gt; &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>IMTU the Solomani speak with a French accent, but that may say more about<BR>me than it does the Sols... :-)<BR><BR><BR>Perry<BR>"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>________________________________________________________________<BR>GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!<BR>Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!<BR>Join Juno today!&nbsp; For your FREE software, visit:<BR>http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:53:28 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote<BR><BR>&gt; From: Kenji Schwarz <BR>&gt; In fact, there probably won't be any drug abuse at all in or around the<BR>&gt; 3I -- it decreases one's economic performance, has no evolutionary<BR>&gt; advantage, makes one less competitive, and thus is simply irrelevant.<BR><BR>Clearly untrue.&nbsp; The canonical existence of agricultural worlds can only be<BR>explained by the existence of high value cash crops.&nbsp; <BR><BR>In addition, the consumption of mushrooms predates the rise of Hiver<BR>civilisation.&nbsp; (This can be seen in the characteristic forms of Hiver<BR>communication.)<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:59:01 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Seas of LOX<BR><BR>&gt; From: Leonard Erickson<BR>&gt; &gt; Ok... What kinds of really really cold liquids would we see on a rouge<BR>&gt; &gt; planet?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I'd be surprised to see a *rouge* planet. A *rogue* planet is rather<BR>&gt; more likely. :-)<BR><BR>A rouge planet is one of the worlds the Imperium recruits its "service"<BR>personnel from.<BR><BR>And no, they were not disproportionately settled by the French.&nbsp; (Belgians<BR>or Swiss, maybe.)<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 23:23:51 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR><BR>&gt; From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>&gt; To combine this with another thread from a few months ago, Foundation is<BR>&gt; what introduced me to the Hansantic League. Something like the Hansantic<BR>&gt; League is where I'm going to bound and determined to set a fantasy game<BR>&gt; one of these days. And no D&amp;D3 for me, no sirreee...I'll Fudge it! &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Well, I have no strong opinion about Fudge, but the setting is a good call.<BR><BR>Prussia is still pretty wild during some of the period too, with the<BR>Teutonic Knights beating up pagans.&nbsp; Of course, if you have ever watched<BR>Eisenstein's Alexander Nevsky, your take on the Teutonic Knights might be a<BR>bit jaundiced...<BR><BR>I've actually been thinking of a lurch back into D&amp;D next year.&nbsp; It's<BR>easier to get players together, and a decent setting can fix most of the<BR>odder elements of the rules.<BR><BR>In an idle moment last week, I daydreamed "if the TML designed a D&amp;D world,<BR>what would it look like?"&nbsp; I wasn't thinking about the more Kenji elements,<BR>but rather looking at what could be done with a fairly hard attitude<BR>towards the economic and social elements.&nbsp; You would obviously go with some<BR>kind of Far Trader variant for maritime trade, the gearheads could do<BR>ships, castles, siege engines and stuff.... <BR><BR>(Hmm, pagans, heretics, pirates, Crusaders and merchant adventurers... <BR>Works for me.)<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:34:45 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Culture (was: American and Finnish RPGs)<BR><BR>&gt; From: "Andrew Long" <BR>&gt; Nope, at the moment I make my crust administering NT systems. Used to<BR>&gt; work for ICL in Melbourne &amp; Brisbane in the late '80s, then Fujitsu in<BR>&gt; Sydney last year until I came back to the Gulf last Xmas.<BR><BR>Wow!<BR><BR>I was working at Incitec in Brisbane in 87-89, writing COBOL and *Apps<BR>Master*(!!!).<BR><BR>(For everyone else, Apps Master is/was the ICL proprietary 4GL.&nbsp; I have<BR>decidedly mixed feelings about it.)<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 09:14:37 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: "John P. Raynor" &lt;john.raynor@yale.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>On Mon, 18 Dec 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;Now, for something more serioius!&nbsp; I say it's spelled barbecue, is a<BR>&gt; &gt; sauce/marinade/style of cooking, not a dish made of spicy loose meat served<BR>&gt; &gt; on a bun, includes tomatoes *and* mustard, is both sweet, tart, and hot, and<BR>&gt; &gt; would be a perfect way of serving leg of K'kree!<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Sounds good, but do you mind if I have Rib of K'kree?&nbsp; The leg I find to<BR>&gt; &gt; be a bit stringy.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; You need to beat on it with a baseball bat for a few hours before<BR>&gt; butchering. Makes it a lot more tender...<BR><BR>It's a good thing that the Two Thousand Worlds are so far from the<BR>Solomani Rim.&nbsp; I can easily envision those wacky Solomani geneticists<BR>engineering the K'kree into something very much like the "main course"<BR>from the "Restaurant at the End of the Universe" (y'know, that vaguely<BR>bovine creature that chats with the customers, and advises them on<BR>which of its body parts are likely to be the tastiest, before happily<BR>allowing itself to be wheeled into the kitchen for butchering...)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; - J. Raynor<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:13:02 +0800<BR>From: Nattrass &lt;wulfren@opera.iinet.net.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Teleporter for sale register interest now!<BR><BR>http://www.rossauction.com.au/forth/machinery29.htm<BR><BR>yes you can own an ex-government Teleporter, as it was used by main roads I <BR>cannot be quoted as to its quality, however if you want to get an edge on <BR>the technology race check it out!<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 14:42:10 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Yes. Interestingly, light sent from a moving point travels at C no<BR>&gt; &gt; matter the direction or speed of its origin, so a ship travelling at<BR>&gt; &gt; .99C firing a laser forwards would not have an FTL laser.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; No, but if they were moving towards a target, the laser would be<BR>&gt; blueshifted like crazy (increasing the effective power).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Since the 2 ship issue involves time dilation on both parts, I<BR>&gt; &gt; believe that both ships would see the other moving slower than .75C,<BR>&gt; &gt; not faster. Counter intuitive, I know. Relativity is weird.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Nope. See the formula that I've posted several times so far. <BR>&gt; Relativity<BR>&gt; *is* weird, but not *that* weird. You forgot that *in <BR>&gt; addition* to time<BR>&gt; dilatiaion, they'll also see distances in their direction of travel as<BR>&gt; being shorter.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>This is why I'm not in astrophysics :)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 14:43:56 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Two Qs, one relativity, one cosmology<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;2) Hubble determined that everything is flying away from <BR>&gt; everything else.<BR>&gt; &gt;But we have photographs of galaxies colliding, which clearly <BR>&gt; means that<BR>&gt; &gt;they're NOT flying apart. Therefore, it seems that the <BR>&gt; expansion phenomenon<BR>&gt; &gt;is happening only at a very, very large scale. Where's the <BR>&gt; break point?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Roughly speaking, the scale is the scale of galactic groups <BR>&gt; or clusters.<BR>&gt; Andromeda (M31) is moving towards us <BR><BR>Arrgh! Run!! <BR><BR>Sorry, couldn't resist. :)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>- - it's part of the Local Group.<BR>&gt; The Virgo Cluster (nearest big galaxy cluster) is mostly <BR>&gt; moving away as part of<BR>&gt; the Hubble Flow. There are perturbations on top of the whole <BR>&gt; thing, but<BR>&gt; basically<BR>&gt; the break point is at the scale of groups or clusters of <BR>&gt; galaxies (several<BR>&gt; million parsecs.)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Bruce<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 09:52:33 -0500<BR>From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: AHHH! Sailor Moon!<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 18:24:00 +1300<BR>&gt;From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: RE: AHHH! Sailor Moon!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Douglas E. Berry wrote :<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;Mod died with Keith Moon.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;Keith Moon, Sailor Moon -- what's the connection?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Arrgh!&nbsp; I'm now stuck with images of the Sailor Scouts defeating the<BR>&gt; &gt; monster of the day, and then smashing their insturments!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Funny, I had this picture of the Sailor Scouts floating face down in a pool<BR>&gt;after a drug overdose.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Then again, that might just be wish fulfilment.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Frankie<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;------------------------------<BR><BR>I fear that seeing the subject of this threat brought to mind the rather <BR>terrifying image of 'Sailor Sylea....'<BR><BR>Jon<BR>(still working on Trav: Homeworld and Trav: Albedo.&nbsp; Someday *sigh*)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3417<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Monday, December 18 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3418<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3416<BR>Re: Reft sector X-boat link<BR>Holiday<BR>RE: Holiday<BR>RE: Seas of LOX<BR>Re:Blank Sector Map<BR>RE: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: passport application<BR>RE: This TU has 10 000 repugnant features<BR>Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote Democratic<BR>Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR>Re: Imperial Citizenship (was: Naming laws)<BR>Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote<BR>RE: Damn, it's a big country! (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: (1) KB3 Traveller System (Playtest)<BR>Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR>Re: Culture (was: American and Finnish RPGs)<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>RE: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>true words<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Ine Givar anthem?<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 08:52:55 -0600<BR>From: "Smart, David J (David)" &lt;dasmart@avaya.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3416<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 09:03:34 -0000<BR>&gt; From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Seas of LOX Silly<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; While we're being silly, what kind of fish would you get <BR>&gt; swimming in Seas of<BR>&gt; Lox? I'd be tempted to think smoked salmon :)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dean<BR><BR>Naw, it's the bagel eel. Where do you think<BR>the phrase "bagel in LOX" comes from?<BR><BR>:P<BR><BR>David<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:05:42 +0100<BR>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen &lt;rancke@diku.dk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Reft sector X-boat link<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson writes:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Well, they can use the same resources for both. Jump travel is<BR>&gt;&gt;fundamentally different from the sea travel we all pretty much<BR>&gt;&gt;unconciously think of when we think of trade routes. The proper sea<BR>&gt;&gt;travel analogy would be to imagine that ships could teleport from a<BR>&gt;&gt;few miles outside one port to a few miles outside another port<BR>&gt;&gt;(Though jump shadowing does complicate things somewhat). Anyway, the<BR>&gt;&gt;IN would only have to guard a few spots in each system in order to<BR>&gt;&gt;guard a trade route. There is no need to escort each merchant. And<BR>&gt;&gt;the same guard ships would safeguard those spots for X-boat travel.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Actually, they'd have to guard more than "a few spots". <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Remember, the stars/planets/etc are *moving* relative to each other. If<BR>&gt;you emerge from jump on time, and with good accuracy, you are quite<BR>&gt;near whatever point on the "near" side of the 100 diameter limit you<BR>&gt;were aiming at. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;But if you emerge a dozen hours early or late, you'll be quite near<BR>&gt;that same point. But the *planet* won't be there.<BR><BR>There is no evidence anywhere in canon that the emergence point does not move<BR>with time and quite a lot to suggest that it does. Despite what I was told very<BR>recently that "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence", I would say that<BR>in some cases it is. We have a number of descriptions of jump travel and in all<BR>of them it is mentioned that jump duration varies. In none of them, however, is<BR>it even suggested that this affects the time it takes to go from the emergence<BR>point to the planet. The logical deduction is that it does not matter. Which is<BR>easiest explained by saying that the emergence point moves along with the target<BR>world.<BR><BR><BR>Hans<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 09:19:59 -0600<BR>From: Loren Wiseman &lt;lkw@io.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Holiday<BR><BR>For those who need to contact me, I'm going to be on the road beginning<BR>Tuesday, 19 December visiting relatives, and will be away from the<BR>lkw@io.com address. I will endeavor to stay up with mail on the<BR>gdwgames@aol.com address.<BR><BR>Happy holidays to all, whichever of the many midwinter celebrations you<BR>choose to participate in!<BR><BR><BR><BR>Loren Wiseman<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society&nbsp; http://jtas.sjgames.com/<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; SJ Games<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (512) 447-7866 VOX<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (512) 447-1144 FAX<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 15:19:30 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Holiday<BR><BR>Have a good one.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Loren Wiseman [mailto:lkw@io.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 18 December 2000 15:20<BR>&gt; To: traveller@ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Holiday<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; For those who need to contact me, I'm going to be on the road <BR>&gt; beginning<BR>&gt; Tuesday, 19 December visiting relatives, and will be away from the<BR>&gt; lkw@io.com address. I will endeavor to stay up with mail on the<BR>&gt; gdwgames@aol.com address.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Happy holidays to all, whichever of the many midwinter <BR>&gt; celebrations you<BR>&gt; choose to participate in!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Loren Wiseman<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society&nbsp; <BR>http://jtas.sjgames.com/<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; SJ Games<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (512) 447-7866 VOX<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (512) 447-1144 FAX<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 07:35:15 -0800<BR>From: "tsykoduk" &lt;tsykoduk@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Seas of LOX<BR><BR>Ahhhh Leonard - you are no fun :)<BR><BR>Ok ok ok.. Seas of Liquid Hydrogen with a Helium Atmosphere - no bergs at<BR>all :(<BR><BR>Next question: What would the effects of dipping in liquid Hydrogen on<BR>metals? Long term exposure would probably make them really brittle, and<BR>perhaps break them down, unless there was some sort of heat source inside to<BR>keep their core temp up. I think that visual would be really cool also - if<BR>the vessel was dunked in it, and the liquid hydrogen was touching the hull,<BR>it probably would boil away, draining the heat out of the structure as quick<BR>as it could...<BR><BR>I would also think that the heat transfer rate would be just huge - if you<BR>did loose the Power Plant you would have hours to get it on line before the<BR>temp in the ship dropped below human habitation...<BR><BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt;&gt;blush&lt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Yeah Any really cold liquid will do just fine.. Here is the basic plot and<BR>&gt; feel free to shoot holes in it..<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The Team are frozen watch on a deep space lab ship - they awake one day<BR>and<BR>&gt; find the crew dead and the ship submerged in a sea of &lt;insert really cold<BR>&gt; liquid&gt;. The PP is off line, and the emergency life-support cannot keep<BR>the<BR>&gt; ship warm enough to support life very long. So we have a bunch of cool<BR>&gt; scenes with the frozen watch bumbling about in the dark with flashlights.<BR>I<BR>&gt; am going to throw some evil alien fauna in as well... it was flash frozen<BR>in<BR>&gt; the sea, when it's ship crashed a few tens of thousand years ago, and the<BR>&gt; silly lab techs thought waking it up might be a _good_ idea (don't they<BR>&gt; teach don't wake the evil alien classes in xeno-biology?). :)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Helium is sounding better and better - with ammoinabergs ;)<BR><BR>As noted in another message, helium *boils* at about 4 K. That's rather<BR>cool, even for interstellar space. Hydrogen will work (you can have<BR>free hydrogen simply because there's so much that it runs out of things<BR>to combine with it). So will neon.<BR><BR>BTW, there won't be any "bergs" of most things. Water is almost unique<BR>in having a solid state that will *float* on the liquid state.<BR><BR>And I suspect that a check check of the densities will show that<BR>nothing much can float in hydrogen. *Maybe* something could float in<BR>neon. But I wouldn't count on it.<BR><BR>- --<BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 07:54:12 -0800<BR>From: "Dave Strebe" &lt;strebe@intergate.bc.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Re:Blank Sector Map<BR><BR>Could some kind&nbsp; soul direct me to a page that has a blank sector map(gif.<BR>or jpg. or pdf.)?<BR><BR>Thanks in advance<BR>Dave<BR><BR>P.S. please reply to<BR>strebe@intergate.ca<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 15:50:23 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;Interesting. In my friends game French accents were used when<BR>&gt; &gt;speaking in Vilani.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;Makes the Solomani cause seem quite attractive doesn't it?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Does *anyone* like the French...even the French? &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Seriously, apparently even the majority of rural French citizens dislike<BR>Parisians. <BR><BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 10:57:08 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: passport application<BR><BR>At 10:41 PM -0800 12/17/00, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Dear gods and buddhas, Kenji, this would only happen to you, wouldn't<BR>&gt;it!?!?!<BR><BR>Well, ya gotta pay back all your outrageous strokes of good luck somehow.<BR><BR>&gt;Now I'm afraid to tell the State Department I need to change the name on my<BR>&gt;passport.&nbsp; (It still has my ex-husband's last name on it, and I'm tired of<BR>&gt;booking flights as "Kiri Ho".&nbsp; Not to mention when Hiroshi and I were<BR>&gt;together it irritated him greatly.)<BR><BR>If the official record of your name change is clear &amp; unambiguous, I <BR>doubt it would be a problem.&nbsp; (With me, it was just that I can't <BR>provide a birth record that was unambiguously mine or not obviously <BR>tampered with.)<BR><BR>Of course, now that your karma has been contaminated by communication <BR>with me, it's going to turn out that the judge or court clerk that <BR>handled your divorce is under investigation for links to, say, heroin <BR>kingpins and arms merchants with dealings with Kray-zee Ay-rabs(tm), <BR>and you're going to be randomly picked for a spot-check, just in case.<BR><BR>&gt;"Tribal enrollment"????????<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;What's this all about?<BR><BR>My grandfather was born sur la rez but adopted off it as a little <BR>kid.&nbsp; The tribal government, unlike the federal one, is more or less <BR>satisfied that I was born; it's just a matter making sure about <BR>gramps adoption.&nbsp; (And probably wondering if they want the likes of <BR>me associated with them, it's true.)<BR><BR>And, if you look on the back of your I-9 form at work, you'll see <BR>that valid tribal ID is one of the forms of ID that permits you to <BR>work in the USA :)<BR><BR>&gt;was the daughter of her father's concubine, not his wife.&nbsp; She had no birth<BR>&gt;certificate nor any proof of citizenship until she became a US citizen, yet<BR>&gt;she had some kind of papers from somewhere that stated enough about who she<BR>&gt;was and what she was about that she was able to enter the US at the request<BR>&gt;of her sister, who had become a US citizen after marrying a Chinese<BR>&gt;American.<BR><BR>Yeah, it's been pointed out to me that if I claimed to be <BR>foreign-born I'd get slack on the matter of records, since as we all <BR>know, foreigners talk funny, write in weird made-up little alphabets, <BR>and are dirty and careless about the facts.<BR><BR>&gt;Unfortunately as the divorce was rather bitter, I can't just call her up and<BR>&gt;ask her about it, even though it's her son I am pissed at, not her.<BR><BR>Oh, go on, chuck the whole bloodline... any self-respecting <BR>evolutionary biologist will tell you it's the right thing to do ;)<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 15:54:46 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: This TU has 10 000 repugnant features<BR><BR>Well, I'm a big fan of G:T , and I enjoyed it.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Kenji Schwarz [mailto:schwarz@fas.harvard.edu]<BR>&gt; Sent: 16 December 2000 15:00<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: This TU has 10 000 repugnant features<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;I am pleased to report success.&nbsp; The target has been duped <BR>&gt; into purchasing<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;a GURPS book, which will allow us to track him more <BR>&gt; effectively.&nbsp; Expect<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;further cracks in his armor with the announcement of GT: <BR>&gt; Obscure Vilani<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;Languages.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Can't fool me, nope, I knew that was a joke right away; there's no <BR>&gt; &gt;such project in the works.&nbsp; Didn't trick me into thinking there was <BR>&gt; &gt;for a second!&nbsp; (You heartless BASTARDS!!!!)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; This is what happens when you go from zero to one hundred percent <BR>&gt; blood caffeine saturation levels in five minutes, and on some level <BR>&gt; best not thought about too much are deeply disappointed and hurt at <BR>&gt; jokes about GURPS:Philology.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I hope all SJG staff and freelancers will take this is in the not <BR>&gt; *quite* serious tenor it was intended.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ALTERNATIVE TIMELINE<BR>&gt; (to Stiff Little Fingers' "Alternative Ulster")<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Nothin for us in G:Trav<BR>&gt; Dulinor missed, it's a pity<BR>&gt; Ok, there's new books with pictures<BR>&gt; Just skip the goddamn rules<BR>&gt; We still got Strephon but we're supposed to cheer<BR>&gt; They don't even rebel you know<BR>&gt; They just want old times<BR>&gt; We keep buying it and hate it<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; What we don't need is<BR>&gt; An alternative timeline<BR>&gt; Grab it and shove it it's wrong<BR>&gt; Fight the alternative timeline<BR>&gt; Ignore the GURPS rules and stats<BR>&gt; Fight the alternative timeline<BR>&gt; Be an anti-status quo force<BR>&gt; Shoot our boring ruler<BR>&gt; Stop the Impy reign<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Take a look what you're reading<BR>&gt; You got the same smug society<BR>&gt; And the new aliens in the modules<BR>&gt; Are just fucking lame<BR>&gt; Is this the kind of place you wanna game?<BR>&gt; Is this where you wanna play?<BR>&gt; Is this the new setting we've bought ourselves?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; What we don't need is<BR>&gt; An alternative timeline<BR>&gt; Grab it and shove it it's wrong<BR>&gt; Fight the alternative timeline<BR>&gt; Ignore the GURPS rules and stats<BR>&gt; Fight the alternative timeline<BR>&gt; Be an anti-status quo force<BR>&gt; Shoot our boring ruler<BR>&gt; Stop the Impy reign<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; They say<BR>&gt; They've got content for you<BR>&gt; But that's not true, you know<BR>&gt; They say<BR>&gt; They're written by some of you<BR>&gt; And so fucking what, you know<BR>&gt; They say GURPS:Lite is there for<BR>&gt; Free, free, free<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:04:27 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote Democratic<BR><BR>At 12:30 AM -0700 12/18/00, Legate Legion wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;The more I think about it, Pimp really should be one of the basic<BR>&gt;&gt;"careers" in Trav char-gen.&nbsp; I can't think of anything that so<BR>&gt;&gt;seamlessly melds the "mercenaries" and "merchants" themes of the<BR>&gt;&gt;classic game.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; LOL.&nbsp; True, but what about the Mac Daddies &amp; Hos?<BR><BR>Well, let me reconsider.&nbsp; Suppose Procurement is made an additional <BR>branch of the military careers.&nbsp; So, having enlisted or been <BR>commissioned into the Imperial Army or Imperial Navy (the Marines are <BR>procured for by the IN, to the extent they're not who the IN procures <BR>for itself), a character can join the Procurement (of) Service.<BR><BR>Enlisted ranks = Hos.<BR>Officers = Mack Daddies.<BR><BR>Or maybe you can't start in it, but have to transfer in after <BR>cross-training or attending a specialized Service Academy.&nbsp; Probably <BR>there's an extra survival roll for transferees, to see if they get <BR>rubbed out by the competition before finding a niche.<BR><BR>Special decorations replacing MCUF/MCG/SEH and Purple Heart?<BR><BR>Double the number of mustering out rolls for officers, halve them for <BR>enlisted/NCOs.&nbsp; Instead of starship tickets, military procurement <BR>vets get TL-F hotpants (enlisted) or iridium jewelry (officers).<BR><BR>I'll stop here and let others take over -- I feel like there's a lot <BR>more to be fleshed out.<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:09:07 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR><BR>At 12:33 AM -0700 12/18/00, Legate Legion wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; True, but then they turn around &amp; blow away the hero's buddy 2 days<BR>&gt;before he is due to retire.<BR><BR>Slight shift of conversation:&nbsp; I've been skimming around the Trav <BR>webring, and somewhere or another, was greatly gratified to see *two* <BR>armed lander designs (albeit for GURPS) in honor of Pvt. Hudson.&nbsp; The <BR>designer, whoever it was, gets a round of applause from this corner.<BR><BR>Recently I ran into two people who haven't seen the movie, never <BR>heard of it, hate sci-fi, and still quote Hudson&nbsp; :)<BR><BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:12:15 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Imperial Citizenship (was: Naming laws)<BR><BR>At 11:00 PM +1300 12/18/00, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Yes, according the warrant of restoration, the requirements for Imperial<BR>&gt;Citizenship are:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;"The Imperium considers as citizens any living recognised sentient<BR>&gt;creature native to or naturalised by a member world of the Imperium, or any<BR>&gt;living recognised sentient creature swearing fealty to the Imperium directly"<BR><BR>Ah!&nbsp; Thanks; I'd forgotten most of my M:0 material already.&nbsp; And I've <BR>been taking the idea of two-tiered "citizenships" within the Imperium <BR>as established, rather than as a list-generated variant.<BR><BR>Still, my other question could use clarification:&nbsp; Does the Imperial <BR>government have any say in the naturalization of extra-Imperial <BR>immigrants to their new planetary governments?<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:15:18 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: This city has 10 000 ethnicities, and they all vote<BR><BR>At 10:53 PM +1000 12/18/00, Alan Bradley wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Clearly untrue.&nbsp; The canonical existence of agricultural worlds can only be<BR>&gt;explained by the existence of high value cash crops.<BR><BR>I thought they were all dedicated to growing stock feed for the <BR>K'kree ranches obviously necessary to slake the carnivorous lusts of <BR>the TML?&nbsp; But you're probably right -- mass production of narcotics <BR>certainly helps explain the Imperium better.<BR><BR>&gt;In addition, the consumption of mushrooms predates the rise of Hiver<BR>&gt;civilisation.&nbsp; (This can be seen in the characteristic forms of Hiver<BR>&gt;communication.)<BR><BR>Yes, I think you're absolutely correct.&nbsp; Certainly I must admit that <BR>I've tended to picture the "Manipulators' Club" as a conclave of <BR>career 'heads.<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 00:07:50 -0000<BR>From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Damn, it's a big country! (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>Australia isn't just a country, it is a continent!<BR><BR>Not entirely accurate as India is sitting on the same continental plate. But<BR>for big you could try my own state of Western Australia.<BR><BR>Antony<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 10:21:47 -0600<BR>From: "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" &lt;sdaniels@playnet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: (1) KB3 Traveller System (Playtest)<BR><BR>Thanks for posting all this Kenneth.<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; KB3&nbsp; Definitions and Notes.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Character Generation:<BR>&gt; KB3 is designed to be used with characters generated using the "classic"<BR>&gt; chargen systems used in CT, MT, and T4.&nbsp; You can, if you choose, use<BR>&gt; characters designed from these systems "inter-changeably", but I would<BR>&gt; suggest that you use either the CT/MT systems exclusively, or the T4<BR>&gt; system exclusively (because of the skill level variance).<BR><BR>The 'skill inflation' begins with Advanced Chargen in Book 4 and<BR>continues from there into Books 5, 6 and 7.&nbsp; The average skills per<BR>year goes up dramatically from Book 1.&nbsp; Roll high and you could<BR>walk away with 5 or 6 skills in one year of Commando School.<BR>IMHO, this unbalances the chargen process a bit if you have mixed<BR>Basic and Advanced chargen characters together.&nbsp; So, the difficulties<BR>with T4 numbers of skills may be present, or nearly so, with advanced<BR>CT chargen as well.<BR><BR>Note: MM has stated a couple of times that T4 chargen was built<BR>upon an average skill acquisition of 1.25 skills per year.&nbsp; It does a<BR>great job at keeping close to that average.&nbsp; In comparison, it<BR>appears to me that the skill inflation of Advanced Chargen wasn't<BR>a significant concern.<BR><BR>bloo<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 08:14:46<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR><BR>At 09:03 PM 12/17/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Then I would like the hear a thank you for all of the time us arrogant<BR>&gt;Americans went to some country that didn't care about us &amp; we saved their<BR>&gt;lives.<BR><BR>legate, chill out.&nbsp; Nothing is older than that "but we saved you!" line.<BR>We didn't save any Scandanavian counties (unless y'all still count<BR>Denmark), and in fact fought alongside and under&nbsp; the nations we went to save.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Then why do we export our culture, not because we have to, but because<BR>&gt;people want to see it.<BR><BR>I see.&nbsp; So such things as Monty Python, Pokemon, and Anime are home grown?<BR>Everybody exports pieces of their culture.<BR><BR>Do you know that the largest movie industry in the world is in India?<BR>Makes Hollywood look like a midget.&nbsp; Their films are exported all over<BR>central asia.&nbsp; But since they rarely get seen ion the US, most of us don't<BR>know anything about them.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Even a leftist atheist like me?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Only if you live in the US.<BR><BR>*boggle*&nbsp; Riigghtt.. LL, you *really* need to read up on places like Sweden.<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 08:19:51<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Culture (was: American and Finnish RPGs)<BR><BR>At 08:14 AM 12/18/2000 +0400, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Q. What's the difference between the Ziru Sirka and a Petri dish?<BR>&gt;A. There's a living culture in a Petri dish<BR><BR>Q. Why dfo they eat so much yogurt in LA?<BR>A. They gotta get some culture down there..<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 08:25:55<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>At 04:21 AM 12/18/2000 PST, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; And, what about your electrical power, do they try &amp; steal that as<BR>&gt;&gt;well?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;No, they steal *that* from Oregon. :-)<BR><BR>Hey!&nbsp; We pay for ever watt!&nbsp; (I'm looking at our PG&amp;E [Pacific Graft and<BR>Extortion] bill as i write..)<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 08:30:27<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>At 02:17 AM 12/18/2000 -0000, you wrote:<BR>&gt;I've never understood American hatred of the French, they are your oldest<BR>&gt;allies after all.<BR><BR>They're as arrogant as we are.&nbsp; That pisses both sides off.<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 08:31:41<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>At 06:49 PM 12/17/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;We just can't stand for anyone more arogant than ourselves.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;And only the French qualify. &lt;g,d,r&gt;<BR><BR>well, the Brits, but they just hold us in quiet contempt.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:36:05 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>I seem to remember an Australian pundit describing the British as<BR>'condescending an <BR>patronising.' Typical convict mentality ;)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Douglas E. Berry [mailto:gridlore@pop.mindspring.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 18 December 2000 08:32<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; At 06:49 PM 12/17/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;We just can't stand for anyone more arogant than ourselves.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;And only the French qualify. &lt;g,d,r&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; well, the Brits, but they just hold us in quiet contempt.<BR>&gt; -- <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>&gt; http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:59:36 -0500<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: true words<BR><BR>Doug Berry puts into the Ether:<BR>&gt;Well, culturally California is two states: NorCal and the Evil Hordes of<BR>&gt;SoCal. We live in God's Own Land. They live in a blasted desert and try<BR>&gt;to steal our water. We have the Giants, they have the Dodgers (spit.) All<BR>&gt;of our state politics is a balancing act between these two cultural groups<BR>&gt;(and some in the northern parts of the state don't even want to claim the<BR>&gt;Bay Area!)<BR><BR>I have family in the LA &amp; SF areas.<BR>Doug has hit the nail squarely on the head.<BR><BR><BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>It was blasphemous, it was sacrilegious, and it was a little bit too much fun.<BR>http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 19:28:37 +0000<BR>From: Martin Hardgrave &lt;martin@deira.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>In message &lt;v04220801b6603a1fde51@[128.102.186.102]&gt;, "David P. Summers"<BR>&lt;summers@alum.mit.edu&gt; writes<BR>&gt; This is<BR>&gt;similar to; rules in some European countries where the government<BR>&gt;collects mandatory contribution on behalf of the religions<BR><BR>ITYM "mandatory membership contributions to religious groups on behalf<BR>of their voluntary members"&nbsp; HTH HAND<BR>- -- <BR>Martin Hardgrave<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 12:21:04 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Ine Givar anthem?<BR><BR>The fact that I'm compulsively wallowing in punk nostalgia bodes ill <BR>for my meeting with one of the Deans this afternoon to discuss <BR>undergrad student activities, so let me try and replace "Harvard" in <BR>my head with "the Imperium".<BR><BR>To the nasal 'tune' of DK's "Hop with the Jet Set"<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Hop with the Jump Set<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I say, come on!<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; To planets unknown<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Where we flee to when we're unwanted<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Come on for the ride<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; When we hop with the jump set tonight<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; We'll be heros free and true the Impy way<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Sell high, aim low, blow the natives away<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; We wanna help the Droyne<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; We'll set them free<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Those other locals must be wrong<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Grateful bats will<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Maybe teach us psi<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Then we hop with the jump set tonight<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Check out the TNS in the hotel lobby<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Some of that planetary conflict there<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Sure makes us seem fine<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; When we hop with the jump set tonight<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; We'll sign on a merc ticket, do what the patron says<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Ain't no right or wrong for us -- money is always free<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Our brave Scouts found a tech-two world<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Let's sell them their first air/raft on credit<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Won't that be profits<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; To take along into jump tonight<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; "Everyone benefits, aren't we great"<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Cheer stockholders (tech-twelve)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Next week repossess their continent<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Back home, at a table in the starport bar<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Our ironically hip heros swill down Scout Brew.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3418<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-zb05.mx.aol.com (rly-zb05.mail.aol.com [172.31.41.5]) by air-zb01.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 12:28:34 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-zb05.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 12:27:53 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id MAA84528;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 12:20:20 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Mon, 18 Dec 2000 12:20:15 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id MAA84484<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 12:20:15 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 12:20:15 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012181720.MAA84484@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3418<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Monday, December 18 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3419<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>RE: Fnord<BR>RE: Question<BR>RE: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: Seas of LOX Silly<BR>RE: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: Holiday<BR>Re: Seas of LOX<BR>Re: passport application<BR>Re: Holiday<BR>Culture &amp; Power Theft<BR>American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising Each Other in General<BR>Re: passport application<BR>Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising Each Other in General<BR>Skill Inflation (was Re: (1) KB3 Traveller System (Playtest))<BR>Re: Damn, it's a big country! (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: The New Traveller Task System)<BR>H&amp;E The End<BR>RE: H&amp;E The End<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 09:26:18 -0800<BR>From: "Jesse Degraff" &lt;jedegraf@cisco.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Fnord<BR><BR>Just saw this!&nbsp; ROFLMAOASMCM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<BR>Jesse<BR><BR>"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety<BR>deserve neither liberty nor safety."<BR>- -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759<BR><BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>&gt; Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 8:50 PM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Fnord<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &lt;fnord&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; TO: Secret Master Loren<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; FROM: Pawn First Class Penguin Boy<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; SUBJECT: Project Kenji<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; I am pleased to report success.&nbsp; The target has been duped<BR>&gt; into purchasing<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; a GURPS book, which will allow us to track him more<BR>&gt; effectively.&nbsp; Expect<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; further cracks in his armor with the announcement of GT: Obscure Vilani<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Languages.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Soon he will be One of Us.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Fnord.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Excellent! The hypno-control patterns in Jesse's illustrations<BR>&gt; are working as<BR>&gt; planned.&nbsp; I will make a notation in your permanent record.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &lt;/fnord&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 09:26:19 -0800<BR>From: "Jesse Degraff" &lt;jedegraf@cisco.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Question<BR><BR>Good idea :)<BR>Jesse<BR><BR>"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety<BR>deserve neither liberty nor safety."<BR>- -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759<BR><BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson<BR>&gt; Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 10:40 PM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Question<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Sorry, thought everyone knew it.&nbsp; It's:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/trav_welcome.htm<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; I'm looking at it on another machine right now. I think you should<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; consider having T-shirts made with the "Happiness is a warm minigun"<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Ditzie picture on them. :-)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; What do you think I plan on wearing to BayCon and any other<BR>&gt; cons I can get<BR>&gt; &gt; to in 2001?&nbsp; :)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Bring some to the next shoot. They'd sell, even if folks have no idea<BR>&gt; who Ditzie is. :-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>&gt; leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 09:32:28 -0800<BR>From: "Jesse Degraff" &lt;jedegraf@cisco.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>How did Mark's twice-a-year shoot become my monthly fun shoot?&nbsp; And I live<BR>in the PRK (People's Republic of Kalifornia) where you can't have these<BR>wonderful toys!<BR><BR>Jesse<BR><BR>"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety<BR>deserve neither liberty nor safety."<BR>- -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759<BR><BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Legate Legion<BR>&gt; Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 9:46 PM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground<BR>&gt; Forces))<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Hmmm... Inspirations from the Japanese take-out menu:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;K'kree katsu.<BR>&gt; &gt;K'kree negimayaki<BR>&gt; &gt;K'kree teriyaki<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; You know I am thinking we should have a Monthly Pot Luck as well as<BR>&gt; Jesse's Monthly Fun Shoot.&nbsp; Maybe combine the two, or have a K'kree hunt &amp;<BR>&gt; put the game in the stew pot?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>&gt; ICQ # 8973001<BR>&gt; legate@futureone.com<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>&gt; places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>&gt; passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>&gt; USS Excaliber.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 09:38:47 -0800<BR>From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>&gt; How did Mark's twice-a-year shoot become my monthly fun shoot?&nbsp; And I live<BR>&gt; in the PRK (People's Republic of Kalifornia) where you can't have these<BR>&gt; wonderful toys!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Jesse<BR><BR>Just be glad it's only twice a year.&nbsp; I don't know about you, but I used up<BR>almost 4,000 rounds of ammunition. Twice a year is all I can afford.<BR><BR>Tod<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 09:38:53 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: AuricTech Shipyards &lt;aurictech@esweeet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Seas of LOX Silly<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 08:52:55 -0600<BR>&gt;From: "Smart, David J (David)" &lt;dasmart@avaya.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3416<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt;&gt; Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 09:03:34 -0000<BR>&gt;&gt; From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: Seas of LOX Silly<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; While we're being silly, what kind of fish would you get <BR>&gt;&gt; swimming in Seas of<BR>&gt;&gt; Lox? I'd be tempted to think smoked salmon :)<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Dean<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Naw, it's the bagel eel. Where do you think<BR>&gt;the phrase "bagel in LOX" comes from?<BR><BR>Do they shriek loudest when they're about to feed on cream cheese?<BR><BR><BR>==<BR>AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/colverber/travler.html<BR><BR>_____________________________________________________________<BR>Free eSweeet Mail - http://www.esweeet.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 09:41:41 -0800<BR>From: "Jesse Degraff" &lt;jedegraf@cisco.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>Yeah, no kiddin' :)<BR>Jesse<BR><BR>"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety<BR>deserve neither liberty nor safety."<BR>- -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759<BR><BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Tod Glenn<BR>&gt; Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 9:39 AM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground<BR>&gt; Forces))<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; How did Mark's twice-a-year shoot become my monthly fun shoot?<BR>&gt; And I live<BR>&gt; &gt; in the PRK (People's Republic of Kalifornia) where you can't have these<BR>&gt; &gt; wonderful toys!<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Jesse<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Just be glad it's only twice a year.&nbsp; I don't know about you, but<BR>&gt; I used up<BR>&gt; almost 4,000 rounds of ammunition. Twice a year is all I can afford.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Tod<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 12:41:31 EST<BR>From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Holiday<BR><BR>Loren, if and when I get the Iltharan writeup done,<BR>should I go ahead and send it to the lkw@io.com<BR>address or the GDWGAMES@aol.com address?&nbsp; (Or is<BR>the book slipping enough that I may as well not<BR>send it until after Christmas?)<BR><BR>- ---<BR>Jon<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 09:51:35 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Seas of LOX<BR><BR>tsykoduk writes:<BR>&gt; &gt;blush&lt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Yeah Any really cold liquid will do just fine.. Here is the basic plot and<BR>&gt; feel free to shoot holes in it..<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The Team are frozen watch on a deep space lab ship - they awake one day and<BR>&gt; find the crew dead and the ship submerged in a sea of &lt;insert really cold<BR>&gt; liquid&gt;. The PP is off line, and the emergency life-support cannot keep the<BR>&gt; ship warm enough to support life very long. So we have a bunch of cool<BR>&gt; scenes with the frozen watch bumbling about in the dark with flashlights. I<BR>&gt; am going to throw some evil alien fauna in as well... it was flash frozen<BR>&gt; in the sea, when it's ship crashed a few tens of thousand years ago, and<BR>&gt; the silly lab techs thought waking it up might be a _good_ idea (don't they<BR>&gt; teach don't wake the evil alien classes in xeno-biology?). :)<BR><BR>Realistically, unless the ship is very specially designed, if the exterior<BR>of the ship got cold enough for them to be submerged (rather than inside of<BR>a frantically boiling bubble of gas) they're already dead.&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Helium is sounding better and better - with ammoinabergs ;)<BR><BR>Ammonia won't float on liquid helium.&nbsp; Solid hydrogen might.&nbsp; Such an ocean<BR>is incredibly unlikely in any case.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 09:54:53 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: passport application<BR><BR>On Mon, 18 Dec 2000, Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; At 10:41 PM -0800 12/17/00, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;Dear gods and buddhas, Kenji, this would only happen to you, wouldn't<BR>&gt; &gt;it!?!?!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Well, ya gotta pay back all your outrageous strokes of good luck somehow.<BR>&gt; <BR>True enough... and you've worked long and hard to make sure that all of<BR>your strokes were outrageous, haven't you?<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;Now I'm afraid to tell the State Department I need to change the name on my<BR>&gt; &gt;passport.&nbsp; (It still has my ex-husband's last name on it, and I'm tired of<BR>&gt; &gt;booking flights as "Kiri Ho".&nbsp; Not to mention when Hiroshi and I were<BR>&gt; &gt;together it irritated him greatly.)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; If the official record of your name change is clear &amp; unambiguous, I <BR>&gt; doubt it would be a problem.&nbsp; (With me, it was just that I can't <BR>&gt; provide a birth record that was unambiguously mine or not obviously <BR>&gt; tampered with.)<BR><BR>Ah.&nbsp; I just have adoption papers, name changes, marriages, and divorces.<BR>They all line up in a row, though.&nbsp; Let's see, McGinity, Yamamoto, Payne,<BR>Morgan, Westfall, Sikorski, and Ho... although the first two were legally<BR>erased when I was five days old and aren't on any of the papers since the<BR>original birth certificate was sealed/destroyed, so I don't have to deal<BR>with those.&nbsp; What I hate about applying for a passport is that they make<BR>me surrender all the originals of ALL those papers for a month or more<BR>while they look at them all.&nbsp; @_@;;;&nbsp; I suppose they find the mere fact<BR>that such a person exists unbelievable.&nbsp; I am way too young (well under<BR>40) to have been married three times.<BR><BR>I agree with that last statement actually.&nbsp; I am way too young to have<BR>been married at all.&nbsp; I think maybe by the time I am 50 I might be old<BR>enough.&nbsp; I believe in marriage, there's evidence of it all around me,<BR>unlike UFOs or Santa Claus... <BR><BR>Anyhow, I've prolonged my adolescence for about 20 years and it shows no<BR>sign of ending soon.<BR><BR>&gt; Of course, now that your karma has been contaminated by communication <BR>&gt; with me, it's going to turn out that the judge or court clerk that <BR>&gt; handled your divorce is under investigation for links to, say, heroin <BR>&gt; kingpins and arms merchants with dealings with Kray-zee Ay-rabs(tm), <BR>&gt; and you're going to be randomly picked for a spot-check, just in case.<BR><BR>Hm.&nbsp; We don't get too many Kray-zee Ay-rabs(tm) in San Francisco, but you<BR>never know.&nbsp; Just don't let them find out that my ex-husband had way more<BR>personal information about the triads than I was ever comfortable with.<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;"Tribal enrollment"????????<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;What's this all about?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; My grandfather was born sur la rez but adopted off it as a little <BR>&gt; kid.&nbsp; The tribal government, unlike the federal one, is more or less <BR>&gt; satisfied that I was born; it's just a matter making sure about <BR>&gt; gramps adoption.&nbsp; (And probably wondering if they want the likes of <BR>&gt; me associated with them, it's true.)<BR><BR>Ah.&nbsp; Cool.<BR><BR>&gt; And, if you look on the back of your I-9 form at work, you'll see <BR>&gt; that valid tribal ID is one of the forms of ID that permits you to <BR>&gt; work in the USA :)<BR><BR>true, very true...<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;was the daughter of her father's concubine, not his wife.&nbsp; She had no birth<BR>&gt; &gt;certificate nor any proof of citizenship until she became a US citizen, yet<BR>&gt; &gt;she had some kind of papers from somewhere that stated enough about who she<BR>&gt; &gt;was and what she was about that she was able to enter the US at the request<BR>&gt; &gt;of her sister, who had become a US citizen after marrying a Chinese<BR>&gt; &gt;American.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Yeah, it's been pointed out to me that if I claimed to be <BR>&gt; foreign-born I'd get slack on the matter of records, since as we all <BR>&gt; know, foreigners talk funny, write in weird made-up little alphabets, <BR>&gt; and are dirty and careless about the facts.<BR><BR>LOL!&nbsp; Well, especially when there have been wars. <BR><BR>&gt; &gt;Unfortunately as the divorce was rather bitter, I can't just call her up and<BR>&gt; &gt;ask her about it, even though it's her son I am pissed at, not her.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Oh, go on, chuck the whole bloodline... any self-respecting <BR>&gt; evolutionary biologist will tell you it's the right thing to do ;)<BR><BR>hm, you're right.&nbsp; she did give birth to HIM, after all so it's all her<BR>fault.&nbsp; and I can't give her credit for having to sleep with his father to<BR>do it, because she wanted to marry him so badly she got pregnant on<BR>purpose...<BR><BR>besides, none of them like me.&nbsp; which proves they have no taste.&nbsp; They<BR>can't decide what part of me they hate most, the Japanese part or the<BR>white part, but then I made them happy and divorced their son, and they<BR>couldn't deal with that at all.<BR><BR>sore winners are a bitch =)<BR><BR>anyhow, I was just thinking that with all the frontier wars and whatnot,<BR>people like Sauyee whose records got destroyed or who were born at times<BR>when there wasn't time to make any proper records have got to be common,<BR>and the Imperium must have made some provision for dealing with them.<BR><BR>kirichan yori&nbsp; ^_^<BR><BR>******************************************************************************<BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 93!&nbsp; Thou Art God<BR>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR><BR>"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>Desire is embraced in a dream..."&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- X-JAPAN<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 13:12:05 EST<BR>From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Holiday<BR><BR>Sorry about that, guys.&nbsp; (Bloody reply-to. . .)<BR><BR>- ---<BR>Jon<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 13:52:35 -0500<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Culture &amp; Power Theft<BR><BR>Doug Berry types:<BR>&gt;At 04:21 AM 12/18/2000 PST, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; And, what about your electrical power, do they try &amp; steal that as<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;well?<BR>&gt; &gt;No, they steal *that* from Oregon. :-)<BR>&gt;Hey!&nbsp; We pay for ever watt!&nbsp; (I'm looking at our PG&amp;E [Pacific Graft and<BR>&gt;Extortion] bill as i write..)<BR><BR>Hmmm...I've heard it as "Pacific Greed &amp; Extortion."<BR>Alternate meaning for the suits in SF HQ : "Play Games &amp; Eat."<BR><BR>An old friend used to write out her checks to "Pacific Gas &amp; Extortion."<BR>Yes, they were cashed promptly...<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>Born to be Wild. Sentenced to Sedation<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 10:58:42 -0500<BR>From: peersce@mindspring.com<BR>Subject: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising Each Other in General<BR><BR>Regarding the French:<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; The farther away you get from Paris, the better French people are.&nbsp; When<BR>you get out to Normandy and Brittany, the majority of them I met were fun to<BR>hang out with.&nbsp; All you have to do is say how great France is and how much<BR>you want to learn French.&nbsp; Of course its a total lie, but they appreciate<BR>the compliment, and then they're your buddy.&nbsp; They're a proud people, but<BR>they've been down on their national luck since WWII.&nbsp; They lost Algeria,<BR>lost Vietnam, and were reduced to a European country rather than an imperial<BR>power.&nbsp; Waah.&nbsp; No else cares, but they do, and they're still touchy that<BR>their ability doesn't measure up to their pride.&nbsp; Their politicians are<BR>treacherous, dirtbag, America-hating bastards who make deals with our<BR>enemies and sell latest technology weapons to them, but that's not the<BR>people's fault, and the more time you spend around the non-Parisians, the<BR>more you will see the real people who can actually be good friends.&nbsp; As for<BR>the Parisians, they're such assh*les, even to each other, that I can't<BR>figure out how they get close enough to reproduce.&nbsp; The French as a nation<BR>are out for themselves first, last, and always, and they don't even have the<BR>decorum to pretend otherwise and put themselves out once in while for the<BR>country that saved them twice.&nbsp; As soon as the last German soldier left<BR>French soil, we suddenly lost all our cool points.&nbsp; C'est la vie, et&nbsp; c'est<BR>les Francaise<BR><BR>Regarding Finnish comments on American contradictions:<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I did not detect any America bashing in the relevant Finnish postings,<BR>merely observations.&nbsp; Here's a Finnish contradiction:&nbsp; Why do Finnish people<BR>knife each other when drunk, when they have guns?<BR><BR>Regarding American culture:<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; We have significant cultural advantages.&nbsp; We never had feudalism, so our<BR>the idea of upward mobility has always been present in our minds.&nbsp; The<BR>notion of hereditary nobility never caught on, so we escaped its stifling<BR>influence.&nbsp; Many Europeans have come to this country to escape those two<BR>influences.&nbsp; We have the idea of democracy, and believe that the government<BR>should be legally limited in what it can do to peoples' lives.&nbsp; We believe<BR>in rule of law, rather than of leaders, which is why the military continued<BR>to obey the most despised commander in chief in American history.&nbsp; The<BR>military is loyal to the president not as a person but as an institution.<BR>This has kept our country stable.&nbsp; Look at this last election.&nbsp; The courts<BR>decided, not a war of succession.&nbsp; Our culture protects us from a military<BR>dictatorship.&nbsp; Our servicemen and women would never go along with it,<BR>because of our cultural belief in freedom and democracy.&nbsp; The greatest<BR>commandment of American culture is Do Your Own Thing.&nbsp; Make your money, work<BR>for your own betterment, do whatever.&nbsp; These are our strengths, which have<BR>served us well, and freed us from a lot of the problems suffered from the<BR>rest of the world.<BR><BR>Regarding Europeans in general:<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; A lot of the time Europeans are snobs.&nbsp; Its much easier to understand<BR>when you realize that they treat each other that way too.&nbsp; Their emotions<BR>are slightly different from ours. Actions which would cause us to feel a<BR>certain way don't cause the same feeling in them.&nbsp; Things we think are<BR>inconsequential cause them to have more feelings.&nbsp; The frame of reference<BR>posting is relevant here.&nbsp; It would take a while of living with them to<BR>figure their particular way of thinking.&nbsp; To us it seems that they don't<BR>make any sense and we don't understand why they do things.&nbsp; Case in point:<BR>someone has a French girlfriend who screws ten guys while he's away.&nbsp; He<BR>finds out and considers it a betrayal of their relationship, while she<BR>considers it a little fun while the man she really cares about couldn't be<BR>with her.&nbsp; He can't understand why she did it, and she can't understand why<BR>he thinks its a big deal.<BR><BR>Regarding American culture as perceived by the rest of the world:<BR><BR>HOLLYWOOD IS BULLSHIT.&nbsp; TV AND MOVIES ARE BULLSHIT.&nbsp; DO NOT BELIEVE WHAT YOU<BR>SEE ON TV.&nbsp; EVERYONE IN THE U.S.A. KNOWS THAT WHATEVER COMES OUT OF THE<BR>MEDIA IS A STEAMING CROCK OF STINKING BULLSHIT AND LIES. Except ESPN.<BR><BR>Thank you, and goodnight.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:13:42 -0800<BR>From: Gordon Horne &lt;gordon.horne@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: passport application<BR><BR>Around the time i was born, the Province of British Columbia /only/ <BR>issued wallet sized laminated cards as birth certificates. The big <BR>fancy parchment things were passe. Every time i submit a passport <BR>application it is rejected as having insufficient documentation. I am <BR>invariably told i have to submit the /original/ of my birth <BR>certificate. I have tried including a note that explains the wallet <BR>card is the original, but i've found the only way that works is to <BR>submit the forms in person and wait until the clerk objects.<BR><BR>ObTrav: Just think of all the fun you could have by having <BR>bureaucrats unfamiliar with idiosyncrasies of essential documents. Of <BR>course it only works outside of Vilani space where innovation (good, <BR>bad or indifferent) is possible.<BR><BR>TTFN<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; g<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 14:18:49 -0500<BR>From: Kurt Feltenberger &lt;kurt@blazenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising Each Other in General<BR><BR>At 10:58 AM 12/18/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>&gt;Regarding the French:<BR><BR>Snip<BR><BR>&gt;They're a proud people, but<BR>&gt;they've been down on their national luck since WWII.&nbsp; They lost Algeria,<BR>&gt;lost Vietnam, and were reduced to a European country rather than an imperial<BR>&gt;power.&nbsp; Waah.<BR><BR>Yep, and according to the press, they have no carriers that are sea worthy <BR>at the moment, and the Charles de Gaulle is rapidly becoming a major <BR>scandal among the contractors and politicians involved.&nbsp; This would be an <BR>interesting scenario for one of the non-aligned planets in either the <BR>Marches or along the Extents.<BR><BR><BR>Kurt Feltenberger<BR><BR>"To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; may she always be in the right, but our country, right or wrong!"<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ~Stephen Decatur<BR><BR><BR>mailto:kurt@blazenet.net<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 13:00:15 -0600<BR>From: Eris Reddoch &lt;eris@pcola.gulf.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Skill Inflation (was Re: (1) KB3 Traveller System (Playtest))<BR><BR>"Steve (Bloo) Daniels" wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; The 'skill inflation' begins with Advanced Chargen in Book 4 and<BR>&gt; continues from there into Books 5, 6 and 7.&nbsp; The average skills per<BR>&gt; year goes up dramatically from Book 1.&nbsp; Roll high and you could<BR>&gt; walk away with 5 or 6 skills in one year of Commando School.<BR>&gt; IMHO, this unbalances the chargen process a bit if you have mixed<BR>&gt; Basic and Advanced chargen characters together.&nbsp; So, the difficulties<BR>&gt; with T4 numbers of skills may be present, or nearly so, with advanced<BR>&gt; CT chargen as well.<BR><BR>Yes, this is quite true. As the books were added, the number of skills<BR>to choose from inflated and so did the number a typical PC would get<BR>during chargen.&nbsp; <BR><BR>&gt; Note: MM has stated a couple of times that T4 chargen was built<BR>&gt; upon an average skill acquisition of 1.25 skills per year.&nbsp; It does a<BR>&gt; great job at keeping close to that average.&nbsp; In comparison, it<BR>&gt; appears to me that the skill inflation of Advanced Chargen wasn't<BR>&gt; a significant concern.<BR><BR>The problem really isn't the number of skills, it's the number of levels<BR>in a skill. For CT/MT (DGP or BITS) task systems to work you can't have<BR>the number of levels routinely getting up to 7+, it makes hard tasks too<BR>easy.&nbsp; The INT+EDU skill level limit really comes into play in later CT<BR>and MT.<BR><BR>I think Traveller works best when PC's only have a few skills listed and<BR>the levels stay in the 1=Competent to 4=Expert range. I think, for this<BR>to happen skills need to be very broad. It also doesn't hurt to have a<BR>number of JOAT skills...hum, I just had an idea!<BR><BR>The idea behind JOAT is basically that you are okay with many skills,<BR>but are master of none.&nbsp; What about if every time a PC receives JOAT,<BR>she picks a very broad skill area and every skill in that area gets a<BR>Level-0 default?&nbsp; Get JOAT, choose Space Life...now you have a Level-0<BR>in Vacc Suit, Z-G Ops, and maybe Ship's Boat. Get JOAT again, choose<BR>Space Tech...now you have Level-0 for Engineering, Mechanics and<BR>Gravitics. Get JOAT again, choose Bridge...now you have Level-0 for<BR>Pilot, Astrogation, Comm and Sensors. The idea is that a JOAT never<BR>gives you more than a Level-0, but each one gives you a minimum of a<BR>Level-0 in skills throughout a broad field.&nbsp; What do you think of that?<BR><BR>Eris<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:37:08 -0800<BR>From: Gordon Horne &lt;gordon.horne@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Damn, it's a big country! (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; Yes, the US is a big country, but so are Canada and Australia so <BR>&gt;don't feel like I'm leaving you out. &lt;g&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Also Brazil, China and Russia.<BR><BR>In case anyone's interested (usually not the case if you have to ask):<BR><BR>Australia&nbsp; &nbsp; 7,682,300 sq km&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 17,500,000 (1991)<BR>Brazil&nbsp; &nbsp; 8,511,965 sq km&nbsp; &nbsp; 155,822,000 (1995)<BR>Canada&nbsp; &nbsp; 9,970,610 sq km&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 29,463,000 (1995)<BR>China&nbsp; &nbsp; 9,572,900 sq km&nbsp; &nbsp; 1,206,600,000 (1995)<BR>Russia&nbsp; &nbsp; 17,075,500 sq km&nbsp; &nbsp; 147,168,000 (1995)<BR>U.S.A.&nbsp; &nbsp; 9,529,063 sq km&nbsp; &nbsp; 263,057,000 (1995)<BR><BR>India&nbsp; &nbsp; 3,166,414 sq km&nbsp; &nbsp; 935,744,000 (1995)<BR><BR>Finland&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 338,145 sq km&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 5,101,000 (1995)<BR>France&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 543,965 sq km&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 58,172,000 (1995)<BR>U.K.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 244,110 sq km&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 58,586,000 (1995)<BR><BR>California&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 411,049 sq km&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 29,760,000 (1990)<BR>Ontario&nbsp; &nbsp; 1,068,580 sq km&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 10,084,885 (1995)<BR>Quebec&nbsp; &nbsp; 1,667,926 sq km&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 6,895,960 (1991)<BR><BR>All figures from the Oxford Reference Encyclopedia, 1998<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 13:34:04 -0600<BR>From: Eris Reddoch &lt;eris@pcola.gulf.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The New Traveller Task System)<BR><BR>Rob Myers wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I'm a big fan of 2d6 + modifiers.&nbsp; It's Traveller's core <BR>&gt; mechanic, and there are no good reasons why it shouldn't be the <BR>&gt; core mechanic for the task system.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Rob, I am too.&nbsp; I still like to have a Standard Task System, rather than<BR>a totally ad-hoc method of assigning the modifiers.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Eris<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 19:56:03 -0000<BR>From: "Stuart Ferris" &lt;stuart.ferris@virgin.net&gt;<BR>Subject: H&amp;E The End<BR><BR>After taking some time to mull over things I have decided to stop developing<BR>Heaven &amp; Earth.<BR><BR>The program has always been free and the only thing that I have asked for in<BR>return is feedback, testing and bug reports. Over the past few months this<BR>has become less and less forthcoming to a point where I have had to reassess<BR>my own contribution.<BR><BR>I have enjoyed working on the program and truly wish it was possible to<BR>continue to develop it as I thought the program still had a lot of future<BR>potential. However, I have come to realise that a lot of people are selfish<BR>and whilst they will happily take, they very rarely give.<BR><BR>A small group of people have contributed to the program and I thank them for<BR>their support in the past two years<BR><BR>The Website, Mirrors and Mailing Lists will remain open until the new year<BR>when all H&amp;E content will be removed.<BR><BR>Stuart Ferris<BR>stuart.ferris@virgin.net<BR>http://freespace.virgin.net/stuart.ferris/index.htm<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 12:15:03 -0800<BR>From: "Jesse Degraff" &lt;jedegraf@cisco.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: H&amp;E The End<BR><BR>:(<BR><BR>Let me then say "Thank You!!!!" for all the hard work that you did Stuart!<BR>It's a great program!!!<BR><BR>Jesse<BR>(who never really had time for testing)<BR><BR>"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety<BR>deserve neither liberty nor safety."<BR>- -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759<BR><BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Stuart Ferris<BR>&gt; Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 11:56 AM<BR>&gt; To: WBDMailingList@egroups.com; [Mail] Traveller Digest<BR>&gt; Subject: H&amp;E The End<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; After taking some time to mull over things I have decided to stop<BR>&gt; developing<BR>&gt; Heaven &amp; Earth.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The program has always been free and the only thing that I have<BR>&gt; asked for in<BR>&gt; return is feedback, testing and bug reports. Over the past few months this<BR>&gt; has become less and less forthcoming to a point where I have had<BR>&gt; to reassess<BR>&gt; my own contribution.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I have enjoyed working on the program and truly wish it was possible to<BR>&gt; continue to develop it as I thought the program still had a lot of future<BR>&gt; potential. However, I have come to realise that a lot of people<BR>&gt; are selfish<BR>&gt; and whilst they will happily take, they very rarely give.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; A small group of people have contributed to the program and I<BR>&gt; thank them for<BR>&gt; their support in the past two years<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The Website, Mirrors and Mailing Lists will remain open until the new year<BR>&gt; when all H&amp;E content will be removed.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Stuart Ferris<BR>&gt; stuart.ferris@virgin.net<BR>&gt; http://freespace.virgin.net/stuart.ferris/index.htm<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3419<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Monday, December 18 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3420<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: H&amp;E The End<BR>RE: H&amp;E The End<BR>Re: passport application<BR>Re: Brian Daley (Re: Alan Dean Foster)<BR>Re: passport application<BR>Re: Skill Inflation (was Re: (1) KB3 Traveller System (Playtest))<BR>Re: passport application<BR>Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising Each Other in General<BR>Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT&nbsp; task)<BR>RE: Getting OOP Traveller for a reasonable price<BR>Re: BITS adventures...<BR>More Penguin Madness<BR>Re: The New Traveller Task System)<BR>Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help onCT&nbsp;&nbsp; task)<BR>Re: Seas of LOX<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR>Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Reft sector X-boat link<BR>Re: BITS adventures...<BR>Re: H&amp;E The End<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 12:58:17 -0800<BR>From: "Dave Strebe" &lt;strebe@intergate.bc.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: H&amp;E The End<BR><BR>My sentiments also, you put in some long hard hours on this program and it<BR>has been and will be much appreciated.<BR><BR>Thanks<BR>Dave<BR>(who never seemed to be able to pry the computer away from<BR>the kids long enough to do much testing at all)<BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Jesse Degraff" &lt;jedegraf@cisco.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 12:15 PM<BR>Subject: RE: H&amp;E The End<BR><BR><BR>&gt; :(<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Let me then say "Thank You!!!!" for all the hard work that you did Stuart!<BR>&gt; It's a great program!!!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Jesse<BR>&gt; (who never really had time for testing)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 15:57:53 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: H&amp;E The End<BR><BR>Stuart,<BR><BR>I'm very sorry to hear this.&nbsp; I'm one of the guilty silent; my excuse <BR>is just that as a Mac user, I didn't have the opportunity to test or <BR>buy H&amp;E.&nbsp; It looked like a great product, though, and I'm sorry to <BR>hear another piece of Traveller software is stopping development :(<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 15:59:29 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: passport application<BR><BR>At 11:13 AM -0800 12/18/00, Gordon Horne wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;ObTrav: Just think of all the fun you could have by having <BR>&gt;bureaucrats unfamiliar with idiosyncrasies of essential documents. <BR>&gt;Of course it only works outside of Vilani space where innovation <BR>&gt;(good, bad or indifferent) is possible.<BR><BR>You mean, where chaos, deceit, chicanery, slovenliness, and social <BR>decay are the norm? ;)<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:15:14 +1300<BR>From: "Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Brian Daley (Re: Alan Dean Foster)<BR><BR>On 18 Dec 2000, at 3:16, Brandon Cope wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Just when were they hearing this about Foster?<BR>&gt; &gt; I ask because he is the original SW fic author. He is widely considered to <BR>&gt; &gt;be George Lucas' ghostwriter for the novel version of the first Star Wars, and<BR>&gt; &gt;he was the first to publish a SW novel outside of the movie canon. The only<BR>&gt; &gt;other author who approaches his seniority in SW fic is DEAD (sadly, because he<BR>&gt; &gt;was also a wonderful Travelleresque author). <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Once again, I am the last person to find out about someome passing on ... only 4<BR>&gt; years late this time ...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I've got seven of his novels (Tapestry of Magic, the Han Solo trilogy and the<BR>&gt; Floyt/Fitzhugh trilogy). Damn, I liked his writing.<BR><BR>I'm missing the second of the Floyt/Fitzhugh trilogy, darn it.<BR><BR>- --<BR>"Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR><BR>A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:22:26 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: passport application<BR><BR>Taking the liberty of taking this off-list, since it doesn't seem <BR>plausibly Trav-related, AND it's mostly personal stuff... yes, it <BR>takes both factors to make me stop spamming the list&nbsp; :)<BR><BR>At 9:54 AM -0800 12/18/00, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;True enough... and you've worked long and hard to make sure that all of<BR>&gt;your strokes were outrageous, haven't you?<BR><BR>Walk funnily and carry a big schtick?&nbsp; Actually, no, the last ten <BR>years I've been trying to accomodate myself to normalcy.&nbsp; Which <BR>doesn't sound like a bad word to me any more, even.<BR><BR>&gt;Morgan, Westfall, Sikorski, and Ho... although the first two were legally<BR>&gt;erased when I was five days old and aren't on any of the papers since the<BR>&gt;original birth certificate was sealed/destroyed, so I don't have to deal<BR>&gt;with those.<BR><BR>Ah, they're still there, I betcha... just waiting, like a rusty <BR>natural gas pipe, for an incautious shovel to strike 'em.<BR><BR>&gt;What I hate about applying for a passport is that they make<BR>&gt;me surrender all the originals of ALL those papers for a month or more<BR>&gt;while they look at them all.&nbsp; @_@;;;<BR><BR>That's where I got hung up -- I gave them all the originals, which <BR>they're keeping, and ordered the various local/state/federal offices <BR>to seal my records "while they're investigating".<BR><BR>Not to make ya nervous or nothin' ;)<BR><BR>&gt;enough.&nbsp; I believe in marriage, there's evidence of it all around me,<BR>&gt;unlike UFOs or Santa Claus...<BR><BR>Yeah, but if you did see a UFO, does that mean you'd want to climb on <BR>board?&nbsp; If you did see Santa Claus, would you sit on his lap or take <BR>wrapped packages from him?&nbsp; :)<BR><BR>&gt;Hm.&nbsp; We don't get too many Kray-zee Ay-rabs(tm) in San Francisco, but you<BR>&gt;never know.&nbsp; Just don't let them find out that my ex-husband had way more<BR>&gt;personal information about the triads than I was ever comfortable with.<BR><BR>I don't know the circumstances or the person, but I see a certain <BR>parallel between (southern) Chinese men and urban Midatlantic/New <BR>England men in conspicuously sharing hints about their familiarity <BR>with the triads and mafia, respectively... a friend of mine used to <BR>say "they're all just Scouting for wogs".<BR><BR>&gt;besides, none of them like me.&nbsp; which proves they have no taste.&nbsp; They<BR>&gt;can't decide what part of me they hate most, the Japanese part or the<BR>&gt;white part, but then I made them happy and divorced their son, and they<BR>&gt;couldn't deal with that at all.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;sore winners are a bitch =)<BR><BR>They were pissed that you sullied his name with a divorce, or something?<BR><BR>&gt;anyhow, I was just thinking that with all the frontier wars and whatnot,<BR>&gt;people like Sauyee whose records got destroyed or who were born at times<BR>&gt;when there wasn't time to make any proper records have got to be common,<BR>&gt;and the Imperium must have made some provision for dealing with them.<BR><BR>Stay tuned for desultory debates about the X-Boat system...<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 15:38:40 -0600<BR>From: "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" &lt;sdaniels@playnet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Skill Inflation (was Re: (1) KB3 Traveller System (Playtest))<BR><BR>Eris Reddoch wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; The problem really isn't the number of skills, it's the number of levels<BR>&gt; in a skill. For CT/MT (DGP or BITS) task systems to work you can't have<BR>&gt; the number of levels routinely getting up to 7+, it makes hard tasks too<BR>&gt; easy.&nbsp; The INT+EDU skill level limit really comes into play in later CT<BR>&gt; and MT.<BR><BR>Was it you or someone else that broadened that idea into<BR>the physical arena?&nbsp; Str + Dex for physical skills, Int + Edu for<BR>intellectual ones, Soc + Cha for social ones?&nbsp; I recall seeing<BR>something like that posted not too long ago.<BR><BR>Just thinking out loud here, without adding Cha into the UPP,<BR>I think I like (Str + Dex + End)/2 as maximum levels of<BR>physical skills, and (Int + Edu + Soc)/2 as max for mental<BR>and social.&nbsp; For Joe Average, that would be 10 and 10.<BR>Dividing by 3 would give 7 and 7, which is also the total<BR>skill levels from adding Int and Edu.<BR><BR>And let the stat work as a skill level cap.&nbsp; Say half.<BR>So Joe Average could have 10 skill levels total in<BR>mental, but the maximum level of any *one* skill<BR>would be 3 or 4 (depending on rounding rules).<BR>If the cap was 1/3rd stat, then Joe would have a max<BR>of level 2 in any skill.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; I think Traveller works best when PC's only have a few skills listed and<BR>&gt; the levels stay in the 1=Competent to 4=Expert range. I think, for this<BR>&gt; to happen skills need to be very broad.<BR><BR>Me like broad skills.&nbsp; Particularly for weapons.<BR>It always seemed like a pain to get a skill like Pistol<BR>on a roll, when I already have Rifle-3 (which gives<BR>Pistol-2 already).&nbsp; I sort of prefer Guns-X (with a<BR>+1 or something if it's a preferred weapon).<BR><BR>&gt; It also doesn't hurt to have a<BR>&gt; number of JOAT skills...hum, I just had an idea!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; What do you think of that?<BR><BR>Love it!<BR><BR>Perhaps this idea can be folded into Chargen as well?<BR>For example:&nbsp; Army Basic Training: Brawling-0, Gun-0, Vehicle-0).<BR>Merchant Training (Steward-0, Streetwise-0, Bribery-0)<BR>Things like that?<BR><BR>bloo<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:53:19 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: passport application<BR><BR>At 4:22 PM -0500 12/18/00, Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>&gt;Taking the liberty of taking this off-list, since it doesn't seem <BR>&gt;plausibly Trav-related, AND it's mostly personal stuff... yes, it <BR>&gt;takes both factors to make me stop spamming the list&nbsp; :)<BR><BR>Crap.<BR><BR>Good thing I deleted that long commentary on the probable personal <BR>habits of those four *special* TML luminaries... yeah, you know which <BR>ones I mean...<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 13:57:07 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Bernie McGeehan &lt;einreb62@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising Each Other in General<BR><BR>Regarding American culture as perceived by the rest of<BR>the world:<BR><BR>HOLLYWOOD IS BULLSHIT.&nbsp; TV AND MOVIES ARE BULLSHIT. <BR>DO NOT BELIEVE <BR>WHAT YOU<BR>SEE ON TV.&nbsp; EVERYONE IN THE U.S.A. KNOWS THAT WHATEVER<BR>COMES OUT OF THE<BR>MEDIA IS A STEAMING CROCK OF STINKING BULLSHIT AND<BR>LIES. Except ESPN.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;Actually, the New England Patriots are a stinking<BR>crock of malodorous bullshit too, regardless of<BR>ESPN...and the Red Sox as well...this from a lifelong<BR>Red Sox fan (who is bored to tears with the way his<BR>co-workers carry on about both teams at the start of<BR>each season, then trample each other to get off the<BR>respective burning ships).<BR><BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.<BR>http://shopping.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 21:32:21 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help on CT&nbsp; task)<BR><BR>At 20:07 -0500 13/12/00,&nbsp; Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions <BR>&lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;And, in KB3, there's a new distinction between Stat and Skill.&nbsp; Gone are<BR>&gt;the days of T4 (and what I've seen on T5) where Skill is ALL POWERFUL<BR>&gt;and stat means little.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>T4.x and T5 originally had the *STAT* as all powerful and underrated <BR>the *SKILL*.<BR><BR>Of course, this was all sorted out with the adoption of the IHTIT <BR>rule ('It's harder than I thought') which meant that a lower skill <BR>high stat character was punished severely on the harder skill rolls.<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:00:00 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Getting OOP Traveller for a reasonable price<BR><BR>At 09:03 -0500 14/12/00, "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;Fortunately, both Dom and Andy are on list, I'll let them email you.<BR><BR>BITS doesn't currently take overseas members, mainly due to cost <BR>issues converting currency.<BR><BR>Okay, I'll correct that - we have 3 or 4 honorary members (people who <BR>have done a lot of work for us who get the newsletter free) who are <BR>beyond the UK.<BR><BR>Sorry.<BR><BR>And Andy isn't on the list anymore. He just has spies ;-) You all got <BR>too talkative for him... it was a choice between the job, the family, <BR>publishing BITS stuff or reading TML. One of the four had to give...<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 21:47:54 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: BITS adventures...<BR><BR>At 19:07 -0500 14/12/00, Timothy Little <BR>&lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;fleshed out NPCs giving you great ideas on how to run him....deck<BR>&gt; &gt;plans/floor plans for you to use in major locations...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;This is about all I tend to be able to use from published adventures.<BR>&gt;NPC motivations are one of the hardest things for me to get right.<BR>&gt;Unfortunately it seems that they are also the hardest things for<BR>&gt;adventure writers to get right, too.<BR><BR>The BITS adventures tend to follow a nugget type style with a main <BR>plot line. The npcs tend to have reasonable descriptions and there <BR>are maps and deckplans to allow the Referee to wing it if needs be. A <BR>lot of effort has been put so that the pre-generated PCs interact and <BR>need each other.<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 14:16:49 -0800<BR>From: "David P. Summers" &lt;summers@alum.mit.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: More Penguin Madness<BR><BR>Over interest to all you penguin obsessed dudes out there....<BR><BR>http://www.wendycomic.com/latest.html<BR>______________________________<BR>summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>(This is the net.&nbsp; My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:25:17 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The New Traveller Task System)<BR><BR>Eris Reddoch wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Rob Myers wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; I'm a big fan of 2d6 + modifiers.&nbsp; It's Traveller's core<BR>&gt; &gt; mechanic, and there are no good reasons why it shouldn't be the<BR>&gt; &gt; core mechanic for the task system.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Rob, I am too.&nbsp; I still like to have a Standard Task System, rather than<BR>&gt; a totally ad-hoc method of assigning the modifiers.<BR><BR>There is nothing wrong with the 2D6 + mods systems that are out there (like<BR>the official MT one, or the mechanics used in CT).<BR><BR>I don't mind them--it's just that there are better ways of doing tasks<BR>(IMO).&nbsp; When you use a 2D6 + mods systems, your system is based around<BR>chance (most of your throw represents plain old chance--the same chance for<BR>everybody.&nbsp; Mods skew the results in your favor based on the advantages your<BR>character will benefit from--like skill expertise.).<BR><BR>One thing that the T4 system did very well was to take this focus off of<BR>random chance and "tune" the dice roll, basing it on a character's ability.<BR>(Now, the idea behind this was excellent...the execution just needed a<BR>little more work..but the system could have been fantastic).<BR><BR>What am I talking about?<BR><BR>Let's say we've got a Joe Average character, Stats of straight 7's, with<BR>four skills:&nbsp; Skill-0, Skill-1, Skill-2, Skill-3.<BR><BR>In CT and MT:&nbsp; If Joe wants to shoot his gun, the chance of his success is<BR>*mostly* based on straight chance--the same chance every other character<BR>has.&nbsp; It's one size fits all, and the system is less sophisticated (if you<BR>will--not trying to start a fight) in the sense that 2-12 points of his<BR>throw represent nothing other than pure chance--not based on any skill or<BR>attribute of the character.&nbsp; 2-12 points of his throw are generated by pure<BR>chance (nothing to do with the character), and a much, much smaller<BR>percentage of the throw is all that the character brings to the outcome of<BR>success (he'll get a bonus for skill--maybe for Stat)<BR><BR>In CT, if Joe Average fires his Carbine, and he's got Carbine-2...and he<BR>rolls, say, a 10, then his total for the throw, then his total throw is 12<BR>(he doesn't get a Dex bonus because of his 7 Stat).<BR><BR>10 points of the throw came from pure, random chance.&nbsp; 2 points came from<BR>skill.<BR><BR>In MT, things are a little better, because more of the throw comes from the<BR>character's abilities and stats...but, still, you have the same situation.<BR><BR>For example, there is no difference in bonus between a guy with a Dex 4 and<BR>a guy with Dex 1 in the game.&nbsp; I don't know about you, BUT that's a BIG<BR>difference.&nbsp; Dex 2 is somebody that is crippled in some way.&nbsp; Dex 4 is just<BR>a below-average weakling.<BR><BR>In MT, there's no difference in a guy who has Dex 5 and a guy who has Dex<BR>9...or between a guy who has Dex 10 and a guy who has Dex 14!<BR><BR><BR>What T4 did EXTREMELY well was take the focus of a task roll OFF<BR>one-size-fits-all pure chance, and placed it on the CHARACTER.<BR><BR>In T4, EVERY point of your Stat counts.&nbsp; EVERY point of your level counts.<BR>And, both of those numbers DETERMINE the character's success--not pure<BR>chance.<BR><BR>If T4 had been just a little more tested...just a little more thought<BR>out...just a little better executed...it would have been the BEST task<BR>system Traveller has ever seen.<BR><BR><BR><BR>I'll make a note about KB3 too:&nbsp; Skills give your character dice to<BR>throw...every skill level counts in success determination.&nbsp; Every point of<BR>stat your character has counts in evaluating that throw.<BR><BR>Neither T4 or KB3 are systems where chance is the primary factor (like it is<BR>in CT/MT).&nbsp; The success of a task roll under T4 or KB3 is determined by the<BR>skills and attributes a character has.<BR><BR>And this is why I lean toward the systems I do.<BR><BR>Like I said above, I do like the old CT system, and I like the MT system.<BR>They're just older systems--not as sophisticated as they could be.<BR><BR>Basically (and I don't mean this in any way as a disparagement toward anyone<BR>reading this thread or lovers of 2D6 + mods systems), the CT/MT systems are<BR>one step above rolling a random die with no mods to determine if a character<BR>is successful at what he is attempting to do...<BR><BR>....Player:&nbsp; "I want to my guy to shoot that guy over there".<BR><BR>....GM:&nbsp; "OK.&nbsp; I'll roll a D6 and you roll a D6--if you win the toss, you've<BR>shot him."<BR><BR>See...2D6 + mods systems are really only one step above mechanics you see in<BR>Monopoly.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>(And again...my language is not meant to offend...it's meant to illustrate<BR>the point)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:29:50 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help onCT&nbsp;&nbsp; task)<BR><BR>Dominic Mooney wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Kenneth.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; T4.x and T5 originally had the *STAT* as all powerful and underrated<BR>&gt; the *SKILL*.<BR><BR>Well...you knew what I meant...<BR><BR>(I knew the problem well...KB2.0 came out of that frustration)<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Of course, this was all sorted out with the adoption of the IHTIT<BR>&gt; rule ('It's harder than I thought') which meant that a lower skill<BR>&gt; high stat character was punished severely on the harder skill rolls.<BR><BR>Yeah...I remember that.&nbsp; I liked it.<BR><BR>How did it work again?<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:41:54 -0500<BR>From: michael stasica &lt;stosh@sympatico.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Seas of LOX<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR><BR>SNIP: Helium stuff<BR><BR>&gt; As noted in another message, helium *boils* at about 4 K. That's rather<BR>&gt; cool, even for interstellar space. Hydrogen will work (you can have<BR>&gt; free hydrogen simply because there's so much that it runs out of things<BR>&gt; to combine with it). So will neon.<BR><BR>I vaguely recall a part of Joe Hadelman's (sp?) novel 'The Forever War' (recently<BR>granted a sequel), that revolved around a superliguid of Hydrogen.&nbsp; My chemistry<BR>is way in my past, so how feasible is the idea?&nbsp; Would it work out past Pluto on<BR>a Kuiper Belt object?<BR><BR>&gt; SNIP: Neon stuff<BR><BR>Michael Stasica<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:58:50 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>At 15:48 -0500 17/12/00,&nbsp; "Douglas E. Berry" <BR>&lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;ObTrav:<BR>&gt; &gt;Our local gaming store (the only one worth the name in Finland) got BITS<BR>&gt; &gt;books a couple of weeks ago. They seem to be very useful, I bought 101<BR>&gt; &gt;Religions and 101 Governments for starters. It is nice to have full<BR>&gt; &gt;service stores, and friends who know people running them...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;That it is.. I wish we'd get the BITS books in stores over here.<BR><BR>Get the FLGS to contact Mystic Station who will distribute to retail <BR>as far as I know.<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:58:11 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR><BR>At 11:52 -0500 16/12/00,&nbsp; "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;BTW, has anyone else noticed the heavy Judaeistic (Jewish) overtones in this<BR>&gt;book? I mean, Paul *is* the long-awaited savior of the universe...<BR><BR><BR>Kenneth - DON"T READ THIS! SPOILERS FOR SEQUELS TO DUNE.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Actually, he isn't. He backs away from the 'Golden Path' when he <BR>realises what it entails. His son Leto II is the 'saviour pof the <BR>known universe' using an enforced stagnation and scattering to break <BR>humanity out of the feudal stagnation it is in. The results of this <BR>are seen in 'Chapter House' and 'Heretics' which, IMO, are the first <BR>books that get back up to a similar level to 'Dune'. 'Messiah'&nbsp; deals <BR>with the aftermath of taking power, 'Children' moves further on, and <BR>'God Emperor' is a fine cure for insomnia. Actually, it's not that <BR>bad, but a very different book to the others.<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:06:43 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR><BR>Dominic Mooney wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; At 11:52 -0500 16/12/00,&nbsp; "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;BTW, has anyone else noticed the heavy Judaeistic (Jewish) overtones in this<BR>&gt; &gt;book? I mean, Paul *is* the long-awaited savior of the universe...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Kenneth - DON"T READ THIS! SPOILERS FOR SEQUELS TO DUNE.<BR><BR>Dom,<BR><BR>Thanks!&nbsp; I stopped as soon as I saw your spoiler warning.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 15:13:20 -0800<BR>From: "David P. Summers" &lt;summers@alum.mit.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>At 7:28 PM +0000 12/17/00, Martin Hardgrave wrote:<BR>&gt;In message &lt;v04220801b6603a1fde51@[128.102.186.102]&gt;, "David P. Summers"<BR>&gt;&lt;summers@alum.mit.edu&gt; writes<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; This is<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;similar to; rules in some European countries where the government<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;collects mandatory contribution on behalf of the religions<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;ITYM "mandatory membership contributions to religious groups on behalf<BR>&gt;of their voluntary members"&nbsp; HTH HAND<BR><BR>The Austrian who was describing this to me (on a train in Austria)<BR>indicated that you<BR>couldn't avoid contributions by not designating a religion.&nbsp; You<BR>had to pick something (even if it was atheism) and contribute.<BR><BR>OTOH, even if the government only did collect from those who<BR>voluntarily joined certain religions, this would equally run<BR>counter to what Americans would consider acceptable for their<BR>government.&nbsp; Here the question of why is the government acting<BR>as any sort of collection agency for religions would come up.<BR>Thus, it is an example of how the American experience is<BR>different from the European one....<BR><BR>______________________________<BR>summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>(This is the net.&nbsp; My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:16:05 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Reft sector X-boat link<BR><BR>Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; We have a number of descriptions of jump travel and in all of them<BR>&gt; it is mentioned that jump duration varies. In none of them, however,<BR>&gt; is it even suggested that this affects the time it takes to go from<BR>&gt; the emergence point to the planet. The logical deduction is that it<BR>&gt; does not matter. Which is easiest explained by saying that the<BR>&gt; emergence point moves along with the target world.<BR><BR>That brings up interesting questions.&nbsp; It would seem then, that moving<BR>the jump emergence point is a function of the astrogator.&nbsp; What are<BR>the limits of this?&nbsp; Are there any?&nbsp; Is it straight-line movement<BR>only, or does it follow the path of the planet's orbit?&nbsp; Is it<BR>affected by gravity?&nbsp; Does the velocity of the exit point affect your<BR>own velocity when you emerge from jumpspace?<BR><BR>The answers to all of these questions have military implications.<BR><BR><BR>- - Tim<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 00:00:57 +0100<BR>From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: BITS adventures...<BR><BR>Tee-Hee, BITS ACQ just arrived 2-day... Am I glad that I finally got a <BR>campaign rolling again, after almost a decade of not actually PLAYING <BR>Traveller. THIS _will_ be of use ;-)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 00:07:08 +0100<BR>From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: H&amp;E The End<BR><BR>Let me join in with the chorus of praise, after i finally got a computer <BR>fast enough to truly use the program, I have found if of great utility to <BR>my new campaign. I always wanted a PRG that took the WBH information and <BR>automated creating worlds, and even sectors (although i didnt try that <BR>yet). But as I dont have any programming skills beyond basic basic <BR>(intentional duplication), I never was able to write one myself. Your PRG <BR>was heavensent, and I wish to tell you, that you did an excellent job <BR>writing and improving it.<BR>Its a pity to see you drop the support, but thats the way things go. I <BR>just hope that the PRG will remain online, with documentation, so that <BR>future generations of gamers (or we ourselves, after another HD-crash <BR>complete with data loss) can find and use it.<BR><BR>&gt;My sentiments also, you put in some long hard hours on this program and it<BR>&gt;has been and will be much appreciated.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Let me then say "Thank You!!!!" for all the hard work that you did Stuart!<BR>&gt; &gt; It's a great program!!!<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Jesse<BR>&gt; &gt; (who never really had time for testing)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:35:35 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>"David P. Summers" wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; At 7:28 PM +0000 12/17/00, Martin Hardgrave wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;In message &lt;v04220801b6603a1fde51@[128.102.186.102]&gt;, "David P. Summers"<BR>&gt; &gt;&lt;summers@alum.mit.edu&gt; writes<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &gt; This is<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &gt;similar to; rules in some European countries where the government<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &gt;collects mandatory contribution on behalf of the religions<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;ITYM "mandatory membership contributions to religious groups on behalf<BR>&gt; &gt;of their voluntary members"&nbsp; HTH HAND<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The Austrian who was describing this to me (on a train in Austria)<BR>&gt; indicated that you<BR>&gt; couldn't avoid contributions by not designating a religion.&nbsp; You<BR>&gt; had to pick something (even if it was atheism) and contribute.<BR><BR>Were I subject to such laws, I would have to name my religion as the<BR>Church of the SubGenius.&nbsp; After all, if I _have_ to pony up, I may as<BR>well at least get some Slack out of the deal....<BR><BR>- -- <BR>AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3420<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-xa04.mx.aol.com (rly-xa04.mail.aol.com [172.20.105.73]) by air-xa04.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 18:37:32 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-xa04.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 18:37:04 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id SAA16828;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 18:33:43 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Mon, 18 Dec 2000 18:33:27 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id SAA16778<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 18:33:27 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 18:33:27 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012182333.SAA16778@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3420<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Monday, December 18 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3421<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Damn, it's a big country!<BR>Re: H&amp;E The End<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3417<BR>Re: Damn, it's a big country!<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Damn, it's a big country! (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: Damn, it's a big country! (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: passport application<BR>Re: Damn, it's a big country! (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: passport application<BR>Re: passport application<BR>Re: passport application<BR>Odd weapons question<BR>Re: Odd weapons question<BR>Re: Alan Dean Foster (was Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel)<BR>Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Odd weapons question<BR>Re: passport application<BR>Re: H&amp;E The End<BR>Re: Odd weapons question<BR>Re: Seas of LOX<BR>Re: Seas of LOX<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 19:04:12 -0500<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Damn, it's a big country!<BR><BR>On Mon, 18 Dec 2000 04:57:23 -0500 (EST), "Mikko V. I. Parviainen"<BR>&lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;And the US is small... What have you, four time zones? Our friendly<BR>&gt;eastern neighbour spans eleven, count them, eleven time zones.<BR><BR>&gt;(Ok, Hawaii might count as fifth, I don't know.)<BR><BR>Six: Eastern, Central, Mountain, Pacific, Alaska, Hawaii.&nbsp; There's _two_<BR>hours difference between Alaska and Pacific; the country actually spans<BR>seven zones, with no land in one of them.<BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>(Ask me via email about the ILink message network!)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 11:13:28 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: H&amp;E The End<BR><BR>Stuart Ferris wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; After taking some time to mull over things I have decided to stop<BR>&gt; developing Heaven &amp; Earth.<BR><BR>That's sad.&nbsp; I'm not able to use it since I don't run Windows, but I'm<BR>sure there are others who do.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Over the past few months this has become less and less forthcoming<BR>&gt; to a point where I have had to reassess my own contribution.<BR><BR>Have you considered that it might be because it has succeeded in doing<BR>what people want it to do?&nbsp; This happens quite a lot in freeware, at<BR>least in my experience.&nbsp; People don't want to take up your time with<BR>minor things they'd like to see included, or easily worked-around<BR>bugs.<BR><BR>It's really a pity that it's a Windows-only program, I'd have liked to<BR>play around with a Linux version.&nbsp; I'm working on something similar<BR>now, though I only have the GURPS world-generation system and a few<BR>reference texts so it won't have the range of choices of your program.<BR>It won't suit canonical Traveller as well, either.&nbsp; It will do jump<BR>masking calculations though, based on orbital metrics rather than<BR>randomly rolling, and travel time calculations for a range of drive<BR>types that includes velocity matching with the target.<BR><BR>Would anyone else be interested in such a thing, or is it just me?<BR>(Just wondering whether I should clean up the code for public<BR>consumption)<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 19:12:26 EST<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3417<BR><BR>&gt; Of course, if you have ever watched<BR>&gt;&nbsp; Eisenstein's Alexander Nevsky, your take on the Teutonic Knights might be a<BR>&gt;&nbsp; bit jaundiced...<BR><BR>Those are the guys in the white robes with the buckets over their heads?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:14:29 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Damn, it's a big country!<BR><BR>Jeff Zeitlin writes:<BR>&gt; On Mon, 18 Dec 2000 04:57:23 -0500 (EST), "Mikko V. I. Parviainen"<BR>&gt; &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;And the US is small... What have you, four time zones? Our friendly<BR>&gt; &gt;eastern neighbour spans eleven, count them, eleven time zones.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;(Ok, Hawaii might count as fifth, I don't know.)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Six: Eastern, Central, Mountain, Pacific, Alaska, Hawaii.&nbsp; There's _two_<BR>&gt; hours difference between Alaska and Pacific; the country actually spans<BR>&gt; seven zones, with no land in one of them.<BR><BR>Hm...actually, I think it spans 8 if you include the entire alaskan peninsula<BR>(GMT +5 to +12).&nbsp; The alaskan peninsula stretches all the way to the date<BR>line.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 15:15:22 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; At 04:21 AM 12/18/2000 PST, you wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; And, what about your electrical power, do they try &amp; steal that as<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;well?<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;No, they steal *that* from Oregon. :-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Hey!&nbsp; We pay for ever watt!&nbsp; (I'm looking at our PG&amp;E [Pacific Graft and<BR>&gt; Extortion] bill as i write..)<BR><BR>Maybe. The question is, do they pay what it's worth?<BR><BR>Also, hate to tell you this, but if we get a bad cold snap up here we<BR>*won't* be able to send you guys "extra" power this year. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 15:17:23 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Damn, it's a big country! (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; And the US is small... What have you, four time zones? Our friendly<BR>&gt; eastern neighbour spans eleven, count them, eleven time zones.<BR><BR>Actually, it's six.<BR><BR>Eastern (GMT-5)<BR>Central (GMT-6)<BR>Mountain (GMT-7)<BR>Pacific (GMT-8)<BR>Alaska (GMT-9)<BR>Hawaii (GMT-10)<BR><BR>Add in Eastern Canada:<BR><BR>Newfoundland (GMT-3:30)<BR>Atlantic (GMT-4)<BR><BR>Which gives a total of 7. <BR><BR>&gt; (Ok, Hawaii might count as fifth, I don't know.)<BR><BR>See above, ot's a sixth zone, after Alaska.<BR><BR>&gt; Try to imagine te rigour of driving from St. Petersburg to Vladivostok to<BR>&gt; see your relatives. On Russian roads. They don't even really exist in some<BR>&gt; places. (Of course, the public transportation in Russia might be better<BR>&gt; than in the US. At least, I know some people who traveller by train From<BR>&gt; Finland to Mongolia, through Russia...)<BR><BR>I'm pretty sure that you'd have to use the Trans-Siberian Railroad for<BR>a good chunk of that trip... :-)<BR><BR>BTW, there are more than 24 time zones, even if you ignore the ones<BR>that involve fractions of an hour. <BR><BR>As I recall, there are both a GMT+13 and GMT-13 zone as well as +12 and<BR>- -12 (those have the same time, but different dates)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 15:28:18 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Damn, it's a big country! (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; In case anyone's interested (usually not the case if you have to ask):<BR><BR>I've added population density figures...<BR><BR>&gt; Australia&nbsp; 7,682,300 sq km&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 17,500,000 (1991)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2.3/km^2<BR>&gt; Brazil&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 8,511,965 sq km&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 155,822,000 (1995)&nbsp; &nbsp; 18.3/km^2<BR>&gt; Canada&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 9,970,610 sq km&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 29,463,000 (1995)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 3.0/km^2<BR>&gt; China&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 9,572,900 sq km&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1,206,600,000 (1995)&nbsp; &nbsp; 126.0/km^2<BR>&gt; Russia&nbsp; &nbsp; 17,075,500 sq km&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 147,168,000 (1995)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 8.6/km^2<BR>&gt; U.S.A.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 9,529,063 sq km&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 263,057,000 (1995)&nbsp; &nbsp; 27.6/km^2<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; India&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 3,166,414 sq km&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 935,744,000 (1995)&nbsp; &nbsp; 295.5/km^2<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Finland&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 338,145 sq km&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 5,101,000 (1995)&nbsp; &nbsp; 15.1/km^2<BR>&gt; France&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 543,965 sq km&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 58,172,000 (1995)&nbsp; &nbsp; 106.9/km^2<BR>&gt; U.K.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 244,110 sq km&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 58,586,000 (1995)&nbsp; &nbsp; 240.0/km^2<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; California&nbsp;&nbsp; 411,049 sq km&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 29,760,000 (1990)&nbsp; &nbsp; 72.4/km^2<BR>&gt; Ontario&nbsp; &nbsp; 1,068,580 sq km&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 10,084,885 (1995)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 9.4/km^2<BR>&gt; Quebec&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1,667,926 sq km&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 6,895,960 (1991)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 4.1/km^2<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; All figures from the Oxford Reference Encyclopedia, 1998<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 15:42:01 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: passport application<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;At 5:11 AM -0800 12/17/00, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; And screw your job over nicely in doing so ;(&nbsp; My passport got<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; yanked last year,<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;Ouch. Who did *you* piss off?<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; I didn't exactly piss anyone off, just managed to appeal to their<BR>&gt;&gt; suspicious and bigoted natures with my application for a passport<BR>&gt;&gt; renewal.&nbsp; Until the State Department investigates &amp; satisfies itself<BR>&gt;&gt; about former (which they're not actually making any effort to do,<BR>&gt;&gt; perhaps because of the latter), I can't travel.&nbsp; Or, it seems, vote.<BR><BR>You should complain *loudly* to your Congressman and Senators.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; And possibly not work, though if my tribal enrollment comes through,<BR>&gt;&gt; I may have found a particularly satisfyingly absurd work-around to<BR>&gt;&gt; *that* problem :)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "Tribal enrollment"????????<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; What's this all about?<BR><BR>Apparently he has enough "Native American" ancestry *and* the<BR>documentation to prove it to allow him to to be entered on the rolls as<BR>a member of a recognized tribe. Which will grant him all sorts of<BR>interesting privileges (and make him a target for certain types of<BR>problems).<BR><BR>ObTrav:<BR><BR>Given that the Imperium already has groups such as nobles who have<BR>special status under the laws, I'd expect it to not be *that* uncommon<BR>for groups/nations (especially on balkanized worlds) to have negotiated<BR>special status when they or their world joined the Imperium. <BR><BR>Of course, sometimes, this may carry disadvantages as well as<BR>advantages... <BR><BR>For example, belonging to some religious group may allow you special<BR>privileges (per the treaty), but you may also be required to take part<BR>in a lottery to choose the person to be sacrificed at the every 10-year<BR>festival. :-)<BR><BR>And yes, it's "legal". After all, if you didn't want to run the risk of<BR>being sacrificed, you wouldn't have filled out the forms allowing you<BR>to claim the privileges, now would you? &lt;eg&gt;<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 15:39:58 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Damn, it's a big country! (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Australia isn't just a country, it is a continent!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Not entirely accurate as India is sitting on the same continental plate.<BR><BR>I don't think so. India is pretty much its own plate. Australia's plate<BR>ends up around New Guinea, where the plate collision created all those<BR>mountains. <BR><BR>There are *dozens* of plates...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:00:31 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: passport application<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; anyhow, I was just thinking that with all the frontier wars and whatnot,<BR>&gt; people like Sauyee whose records got destroyed or who were born at times<BR>&gt; when there wasn't time to make any proper records have got to be common,<BR>&gt; and the Imperium must have made some provision for dealing with them.<BR><BR>Well, for one possible method, check out some of Andre Norton's older<BR>SF. The "Dipple" is featured in several of them ("Catseye", "Night of<BR>Masks", "Storm Over Warlock", etc). It's a facility for "displaced<BR>persons" after a war that either rendered some planets unihabitable or<BR>left them property of governments who didn't want the refugees back.<BR><BR>I suspect it's based on the displaced person camps after WWII, but<BR>"updated". <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:04:46 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: passport application<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Around the time i was born, the Province of British Columbia /only/ <BR>&gt; issued wallet sized laminated cards as birth certificates. The big <BR>&gt; fancy parchment things were passe. Every time i submit a passport <BR>&gt; application it is rejected as having insufficient documentation. I am <BR>&gt; invariably told i have to submit the /original/ of my birth <BR>&gt; certificate. I have tried including a note that explains the wallet <BR>&gt; card is the original, but i've found the only way that works is to <BR>&gt; submit the forms in person and wait until the clerk objects.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ObTrav: Just think of all the fun you could have by having <BR>&gt; bureaucrats unfamiliar with idiosyncrasies of essential documents. Of <BR>&gt; course it only works outside of Vilani space where innovation (good, <BR>&gt; bad or indifferent) is possible.<BR><BR>It can even work *inside* Vilani space. <BR><BR>Be form a culture that maintained old customs after Vilani contact.<BR>Either at the encouragement of the Vilani, or to bug the Vilani. <BR><BR>So you submit a baked clay tablet in cunieform, or a half meter square<BR>piece of hide covered with pictograms. Or whatever other "primitive"<BR>record you can come up with. <BR><BR>For real fun, consider stuff like runestones (think of a chunk of rock<BR>the size of a mideium tombstone) or Mayan style calendar stela (big<BR>rock pillars covered in fairly dense "writing").<BR><BR>"I'm sorry, but you *cannot* request that my birth record be delivered<BR>to you. You are perfectly welcome to visit the city where I was born<BR>and view the pillar outside the temple, but you may not request that we<BR>bring the pillar to you. That comes under 'defacing a religious site'.<BR>Imperial code 3768, section 5, subhead 27."<BR><BR>Finally, when you've had enough fun arguing with the poor bureaucrat,<BR>you can offer him the certified stereopic of the approprite section of<BR>the pillar, with accompanying certified translation/explanation. :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:15:15 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: passport application<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; That's where I got hung up -- I gave them all the originals, which <BR>&gt; they're keeping, and ordered the various local/state/federal offices <BR>&gt; to seal my records "while they're investigating".<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Not to make ya nervous or nothin' ;)<BR><BR>Seriously, I think you need to talk to a lawyer. They *don't* have the<BR>right to force you to put your life on hold while they "investigate".<BR>Making you unable to work (to name but one effect) isn't something they<BR>can do for any great period of time without compensating you.<BR><BR>Keep in mind that there's a *lot* of awareness out there these days<BR>regarding the way the bureacrats are abusing citizens over this sort of<BR>thing. The INS gets most of the flack, but there's enough to may any<BR>branch of the government uncomfortable. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:23:38 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Odd weapons question<BR><BR>Is there any theoretical reason why a ship with multiple lasers (particularly<BR>if non-grav X-ray lasers) couldn't focus all of them to a single point?&nbsp; <BR>Multiple beams are focused to a single location routinely in laser fusion<BR>work, and I don't see why focusing two mirrors to some specific resolution<BR>should be all that more difficult than focusing one mirror.<BR><BR>Of course, this means we've just managed to build lasers above the TL*50<BR>limit on lasers in FFS, but tough ;)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:39:23 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Odd weapons question<BR><BR>No, I wouldn't think there would be, so long as there aren't bearing<BR>problems.<BR><BR>However, in real combat situations this would likely be difficult to do<BR>depending on how target-rich the environment is.<BR><BR>Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Is there any theoretical reason why a ship with multiple lasers (particularly<BR>&gt; if non-grav X-ray lasers) couldn't focus all of them to a single point?<BR>&gt; Multiple beams are focused to a single location routinely in laser fusion<BR>&gt; work, and I don't see why focusing two mirrors to some specific resolution<BR>&gt; should be all that more difficult than focusing one mirror.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Of course, this means we've just managed to build lasers above the TL*50<BR>&gt; limit on lasers in FFS, but tough ;)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:23:24 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Alan Dean Foster (was Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; Just when were they hearing this about Foster?<BR>&gt;&nbsp; I ask because he is the original SW fic author. He is widely considered to <BR>&gt; be George Lucas' ghostwriter for the novel version of the first Star Wars, <BR>&gt; and he was the first to publish a SW novel outside of the movie canon. The <BR>&gt; only other author who approaches his seniority in SW fic is DEAD (sadly, <BR>&gt; because he was also a wonderful Travelleresque author). Foster just had the <BR>&gt; sense to get out of SW fic back when it was still respectable and do his own <BR>&gt; stuff.<BR><BR>Actually, Foster was writing SF (about half original, half movie<BR>novelizations) *before* Star Wars. <BR><BR>I still kick myself for not buying the book with the silly cover blurb<BR>about the farm boy defeating the Empire. A friend who was with me on<BR>that visit to the bookstore *did* buy a copy. <BR><BR>You have to keep in mind that this was *months* before the trailer for<BR>Star Wars showed up in the theater. It wasn't until much later that I<BR>realized what an opportunity I'd missed. <BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; Foster original works are easily droppable into Traveller, Shadowrun, Rifts <BR>&gt; or (in a few cases) D&amp;D. Given your stated game preferences, Legate, you <BR>&gt; should fill this gap in your reading...<BR><BR>I prefer his stuff set in the Humanx Commonwealth.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:28:12 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; How did Mark's twice-a-year shoot become my monthly fun shoot?&nbsp; And I live<BR>&gt;&gt; in the PRK (People's Republic of Kalifornia) where you can't have these<BR>&gt;&gt; wonderful toys!<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Jesse<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Just be glad it's only twice a year.&nbsp; I don't know about you, but I used up<BR>&gt; almost 4,000 rounds of ammunition. Twice a year is all I can afford.<BR><BR>Got any fun toys that use 7.62x39? I've got a thousand+ rounds of<BR>that... :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 00:42:14 GMT<BR>From: TML@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>Subject: Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>"Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt; writes:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I seem to remember an Australian pundit describing the British as<BR>&gt;'condescending an <BR>&gt;patronising.' Typical convict mentality ;)<BR><BR>you *almost* scored a keyboard kill with that - I just managed to put<BR>my drink down in time...<BR><BR>Stephen<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:50:54 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Odd weapons question<BR><BR>Bruce Johnson writes:<BR>&gt; No, I wouldn't think there would be, so long as there aren't bearing<BR>&gt; problems.<BR><BR>In which case you are likely to be unable to hit the broadside of a barn ;)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; However, in real combat situations this would likely be difficult to do<BR>&gt; depending on how target-rich the environment is.<BR><BR>How does having more targets affect the difficulty of aiming?&nbsp; Being shot<BR>could easily affect aiming (and multiple grav-focus lasers might well <BR>interfere with one another if fired at the same time) but I can't see how<BR>a target-rich environment would affect anything other than tempting one to<BR>shoot at multiple targets.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 00:59:52 -0000<BR>From: "Ben Aaronovitch" &lt;bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: passport application<BR><BR>I suspect that on primitive worlds the relevent travel documents are applied<BR>for/processed at either the departure Starport or the next Imperial Starport you<BR>come to. There are probably people who never cross the XT line and therefore<BR>have very little in the way of documentation at all.<BR><BR>There must also be people born to ship crews or passengers in transit.<BR><BR>Ben<BR><BR>'Let's be honest here - you paid for the women.'<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Bill Murrey - Scrooged<BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: Leonard Erickson &lt;shadow@krypton.rain.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 12:04 AM<BR>Subject: Re: passport application<BR><BR><BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; &gt; ObTrav: Just think of all the fun you could have by having<BR>&gt; &gt; bureaucrats unfamiliar with idiosyncrasies of essential documents. Of<BR>&gt; &gt; course it only works outside of Vilani space where innovation (good,<BR>&gt; &gt; bad or indifferent) is possible.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; It can even work *inside* Vilani space.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Be form a culture that maintained old customs after Vilani contact.<BR>&gt; Either at the encouragement of the Vilani, or to bug the Vilani.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; So you submit a baked clay tablet in cunieform, or a half meter square<BR>&gt; piece of hide covered with pictograms. Or whatever other "primitive"<BR>&gt; record you can come up with.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; For real fun, consider stuff like runestones (think of a chunk of rock<BR>&gt; the size of a mideium tombstone) or Mayan style calendar stela (big<BR>&gt; rock pillars covered in fairly dense "writing").<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "I'm sorry, but you *cannot* request that my birth record be delivered<BR>&gt; to you. You are perfectly welcome to visit the city where I was born<BR>&gt; and view the pillar outside the temple, but you may not request that we<BR>&gt; bring the pillar to you. That comes under 'defacing a religious site'.<BR>&gt; Imperial code 3768, section 5, subhead 27."<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Finally, when you've had enough fun arguing with the poor bureaucrat,<BR>&gt; you can offer him the certified stereopic of the approprite section of<BR>&gt; the pillar, with accompanying certified translation/explanation. :-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>&gt; leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 19:02:46 -0600<BR>From: "Shimmergloom" &lt;dragon@mhtc.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: H&amp;E The End<BR><BR>Well, this is a blow to my moral.&nbsp; I must say that I will sorely miss you<BR>continued developement of H&amp;E&nbsp; It may be the best Traveller system generator<BR>program I have ever seen, and is the core data file format for my own<BR>fledgling program.&nbsp; I will have to dowl=nload another copy of the zip file<BR>and back it up for the day I have a computer that run it.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 19:16:06 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Odd weapons question<BR><BR>Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Is there any theoretical reason why a ship with multiple lasers (particularly<BR>&gt; if non-grav X-ray lasers) couldn't focus all of them to a single point?<BR>&gt; Multiple beams are focused to a single location routinely in laser fusion<BR>&gt; work, and I don't see why focusing two mirrors to some specific resolution<BR>&gt; should be all that more difficult than focusing one mirror.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Of course, this means we've just managed to build lasers above the TL*50<BR>&gt; limit on lasers in FFS, but tough ;)<BR><BR>Off the top of my head, I can't see any reason why you _can't_ focus<BR>multiple lasers on one point.&nbsp; I'm not sure that it would be worth the<BR>effort in a space battle, though.<BR><BR>As I see it, you would suffer at least some reduction in rate of fire,<BR>since your fire control systems would need to: 1) calculate an exact<BR>aimpoint for more than one laser; 2) calculate the exact firing sequence<BR>(which would be staggered due to variations in distance) for each<BR>involved laser; 3) physically aim the multiple lasers at that exact<BR>aimpoint; and 4) fire each involved laser in its appropriate sequence<BR>(timed to the nanosecond).&nbsp; All of these calculations would occur, not<BR>in the controlled setting of a laser fusion plant, but in combat, with<BR>both the firing ship and the target maneuvering to avoid enemy fire.<BR><BR>I'd rather use NPAWs for high-powered concentrated fire.&nbsp; (As if<BR>previous AuricTech designs hadn't made this obvious. ;-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:29:38 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Seas of LOX<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Ahhhh Leonard - you are no fun :)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Ok ok ok.. Seas of Liquid Hydrogen with a Helium Atmosphere - no bergs at<BR>&gt; all :(<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Next question: What would the effects of dipping in liquid Hydrogen on<BR>&gt; metals? Long term exposure would probably make them really brittle, and<BR>&gt; perhaps break them down, unless there was some sort of heat source inside to<BR>&gt; keep their core temp up. I think that visual would be really cool also - if<BR>&gt; the vessel was dunked in it, and the liquid hydrogen was touching the hull,<BR>&gt; it probably would boil away, draining the heat out of the structure as quick<BR>&gt; as it could...<BR><BR>Iron-based alloys get *real* brittle when chilled (it has to do with<BR>the crystal structure). But metals like aluminum don't. But I'm not<BR>sure which metals do what. Is there a metallurgist in the house?<BR><BR>&gt; I would also think that the heat transfer rate would be just huge - if you<BR>&gt; did loose the Power Plant you would have hours to get it on line before the<BR>&gt; temp in the ship dropped below human habitation...<BR><BR>Well, keep in mind that the heat *capacity* of LH2 matters almost as<BR>much as the temp. That is, how much energy does it take to raise the<BR>temp of a kilo of LH2 by 1 K? Ditto for the heat of vaporization (how<BR>much energy it takes to change a kilo of LH2 at the boiling point to a<BR>kilo of gaseous hydrogen at the same temp).<BR><BR>Both will be *far* lower than the equivalent figures for water. So the<BR>LH2 will cool the ship (relatively) more slowly. <BR><BR>The figures I have here are:<BR><BR>Specific heat:&nbsp; 14.304 J/kg<BR>Heat of vaporization: 0.44936 V&nbsp; (don't ask me what that means)<BR><BR>Do keep in mind that there will be *enormous* stresses on the hull as<BR>the part in contact with the LH2 contracts *sharply* as it cools while<BR>nearby sections that aren't in contact contract at a much slower rate<BR>as conduction cools them. <BR><BR>And if the bottom off the pool is solid hydrogen (not unlikely, since<BR>any hydrogen that freezes will sink to the bottom and form a "slush" on<BR>top of a solid layer) the ship is likely to melt its way in until it<BR>cools off or hits something with a melting point higher than the hull<BR>temp. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:43:18 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Seas of LOX<BR><BR>In mail, traveller@lists.ient.com writes:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; Or it could be a convenient way to store LOX. After all, at *those*<BR>&gt;&gt; temps it won't react very fast.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; True enough.&nbsp; You'd want a fully oxidised crust though, or a little<BR>&gt; bit of space-dust hitting at 60 km/s might set the whole world on fire<BR>&gt; :^)<BR><BR>And the little bit of space dust will burn nicely.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; 3 K is as low as it can get. That's equilibrium with the background<BR>&gt;&gt; radiation from the Big Bang. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Yep, question is how close can you get to that?&nbsp; Helium vaporises at<BR>&gt; only about 1 K above that at 100kPa, probably lower if there isn't<BR>&gt; much of an atmosphere.<BR><BR>I have -268.93 C as the boiling point. That's 4.22 K. So yeah, it looks<BR>like it's gonna be close..<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; How far out you have to be for that to overwhelm stellar radiation<BR>&gt;&gt; I'm not sure.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Hmm -- shouldn't be too hard to work out, now that I'm interested<BR>&gt; enough :^)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Given the luminosity of the galactic arms (assuming it is simlar to<BR>&gt; andromeda), the flux would be approximately 60 uW/m^2 in deep<BR>&gt; interstellar space.<BR><BR>Hold on a sec, I've got an old Analog I was reading recently that has a<BR>fact article about colonizing the Oort cloud. It discusses using<BR>*starlight* for power!<BR><BR>It quotes a paper as saying at at 1/2 parsec from a sunlike star, a<BR>mirror with a radius of 1500 km would collect about a megawatt. <BR><BR>That works out to about 140 nw/m^2.<BR><BR>So that'd give a lower boundary. I'm not up to figuring the effective<BR>temp that goes with that flux.<BR><BR>&gt; That's a black-body temperature of about 6K.&nbsp; It<BR>&gt; looks like liquid helium is out, since this is above helium's critical<BR>&gt; point.&nbsp; A dense helium atmosphere above hydrogen oceans looks likely,<BR>&gt; or even a solid hydrogen crust.<BR><BR>Keep in mind the fact that below 10k, gaseous helium might as well be<BR>liquid as far as heat conductivity and the like go.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3421<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yb05.mx.aol.com (rly-yb05.mail.aol.com [172.18.146.5]) by air-yb03.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 20:22:20 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yb05.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 20:21:23 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id UAA26086;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 20:16:10 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Mon, 18 Dec 2000 20:15:57 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id UAA26026<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 20:15:57 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 20:15:57 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012190115.UAA26026@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3421<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Monday, December 18 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3422<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Odd weapons question<BR>RE: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: (7) Summary - KB3 Traveller System (Playtest)<BR>Re: Damn, it's a big country!<BR>Milieu: 0 support is here!<BR>ISP trials and tribulations<BR>Re: Odd weapons question<BR>Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: Culture &amp; Power Theft<BR>Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3421<BR>Skills and stuff<BR>Re: Seas of LOX<BR>Re: Reft sector X-boat link<BR>Re: Skills and stuff<BR>RE: Seas of LOX<BR>Re: (7) Summary - KB3 Traveller System (Playtest)<BR>re American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising Each Other...<BR>Jack of all Trades: Thanks!<BR>Re: re American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising Each&nbsp; Other...<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:17:40 -0800<BR>From: "David P. Summers" &lt;summers@alum.mit.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>At 10:21 PM -0600 12/17/00, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>&gt;Does *anyone* like the French...even the French? &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Actually, I'm not sure that, in their hearts of hearts, the<BR>French mind the US taking special note of them to make snide<BR>remarks about.&nbsp; After all, it confirms that they are the most<BR>important country in the world for the US to be annoyed at.<BR><BR>During my visit my feeling was that France had a love-hate<BR>view of the US.&nbsp; The resented it being the superpower, but<BR>also tended to see it as the only country in the world that<BR>every (but not always :-) was worthy of being given equal<BR>prominence to France.<BR><BR>______________________________<BR>summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>(This is the net.&nbsp; My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:20:18 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Odd weapons question<BR><BR>John Groth writes:<BR>&gt; Off the top of my head, I can't see any reason why you _can't_ focus<BR>&gt; multiple lasers on one point.&nbsp; I'm not sure that it would be worth the<BR>&gt; effort in a space battle, though.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; As I see it, you would suffer at least some reduction in rate of fire,<BR>&gt; since your fire control systems would need to: 1) calculate an exact<BR>&gt; aimpoint for more than one laser; 2) calculate the exact firing sequence<BR>&gt; (which would be staggered due to variations in distance) for each<BR>&gt; involved laser; 3) physically aim the multiple lasers at that exact<BR>&gt; aimpoint; and 4) fire each involved laser in its appropriate sequence<BR>&gt; (timed to the nanosecond).<BR>1) is trivial.<BR>2) can safely be ignored, any variation shorter than the pulse duration (which<BR>will probably be well over a microsecond, allowing ignoring variation under<BR>300 kilometers) isn't relevant.<BR>3) is a matter of fire control, and not obviously harder than focusing a single<BR>laser on an aiming point, since you already focus the laser to a point smaller<BR>than the firing mirror.<BR>4) see (2).&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; All of these calculations would occur, not<BR>&gt; in the controlled setting of a laser fusion plant, but in combat, with<BR>&gt; both the firing ship and the target maneuvering to avoid enemy fire.<BR><BR>Yes, but none of the calculations are any harder than firing a single laser.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I'd rather use NPAWs for high-powered concentrated fire.&nbsp; (As if<BR>&gt; previous AuricTech designs hadn't made this obvious. ;-)<BR><BR>Nothing preventing focusing multiple NPAWs either.&nbsp; The accuracy of any beam<BR>weapon should be comparable to the beam diameter.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:08:16 -0800<BR>From: Jesse DeGraff &lt;jdegraff@pacbell.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>I've got a semi-auto AKM from about '87 or so.&nbsp; I had it at the shoot with<BR>me, but never brought it out.&nbsp; It shoots about minute-of-barn, which is one<BR>reason I never brought it out :)<BR><BR>Jesse<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson<BR>&gt; Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 4:28 PM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground<BR>&gt; Forces))<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; How did Mark's twice-a-year shoot become my monthly fun shoot?<BR>&gt;&nbsp; And I live<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; in the PRK (People's Republic of Kalifornia) where you can't have these<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; wonderful toys!<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Jesse<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Just be glad it's only twice a year.&nbsp; I don't know about you,<BR>&gt; but I used up<BR>&gt; &gt; almost 4,000 rounds of ammunition. Twice a year is all I can afford.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Got any fun toys that use 7.62x39? I've got a thousand+ rounds of<BR>&gt; that... :-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>&gt; leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:13:42 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: (7) Summary - KB3 Traveller System (Playtest)<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Kenneth gave us:<BR>&gt;Quick Summary of the KB3 Traveller System....<BR><BR>Looks like a great system! Only hole I can see: what are the direct-fire<BR>combat difficulties?<BR><BR>Your hand-to-hand example obviously uses Opposed Rolls, but what if someone<BR>is shooting at a target from a distance? That would be a Difficulty Throw.<BR>Have you worked out what range to assign to each level of difficulty? And<BR>what bonuses to give to each weapon? And how to work out Weapon Pen vs<BR>Target Armour (maybe an Opposed Roll here, with the attacker rolling for<BR>weapon pen and the defender rolling for their armour)?<BR><BR>The Difficulty Levels for Range are the sort of things that need to be<BR>playtested.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 20:30:25 -0500<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Damn, it's a big country!<BR><BR>On Mon, 18 Dec 2000 20:15:57 -0500 (EST), Anthony Jackson<BR>&lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Jeff Zeitlin writes:<BR>&gt;&gt; On Mon, 18 Dec 2000 04:57:23 -0500 (EST), "Mikko V. I. Parviainen"<BR>&gt;&gt; &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;And the US is small... What have you, four time zones? Our friendly<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;eastern neighbour spans eleven, count them, eleven time zones.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;(Ok, Hawaii might count as fifth, I don't know.)<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Six: Eastern, Central, Mountain, Pacific, Alaska, Hawaii.&nbsp; There's _two_<BR>&gt;&gt; hours difference between Alaska and Pacific; the country actually spans<BR>&gt;&gt; seven zones, with no land in one of them.<BR><BR>&gt;Hm...actually, I think it spans 8 if you include the entire alaskan peninsula<BR>&gt;(GMT +5 to +12).&nbsp; The alaskan peninsula stretches all the way to the date<BR>&gt;line.<BR><BR>Well, geographically, perhaps - but both the extended Hawaiian/Sandwich<BR>chain and the Aleutian chain have been 'fiatted' into single time zones.<BR>Alaska used to be split between Yukon, Alaska, and Bering/Aleutian.<BR><BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>(Ask me via email about the ILink message network!)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 19:42:30 -0600<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Milieu: 0 support is here!<BR><BR>OK all you valiant T4ers, I've put up a site for you.<BR><BR>The Milieu: 0 Aid Society is dedicated to providing things that M:0 has been <BR>needing. First and foremost is an unofficial Traveller News Service for M:0. <BR>I've got permission from Marc himself and I've already posted one <BR>installment. The next should come soon.<BR><BR>URL: http://members.nbci.com/cheebzero/trav_index.htm<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>http://members.nbci.com/cheebzero/<BR>http://members.nbci.com/cheebzero/trav_index.htm<BR>_________________________________________________________________<BR>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:21:51 -0800<BR>From: Tod Glenn &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: ISP trials and tribulations<BR><BR>Apologies to anyone trying to get to any of my websites<BR>(travellercentral,travellerguns,spinwardmarches) but GTE is playing with<BR>their DSL service.&nbsp; Stay tuned.<BR><BR>Tod<BR>- --<BR>When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend"<BR>- -- <BR>Tod L Glenn<BR>webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.solsec.org<BR>http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>http://travellerguns.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 13:00:30 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Odd weapons question<BR><BR>John Groth wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; As I see it, you would suffer at least some reduction in rate of fire,<BR>&gt; since your fire control systems would need to: 1) calculate an exact<BR>&gt; aimpoint for more than one laser;<BR><BR>Trivial.&nbsp; If you can calculate where one laser has to point, it should<BR>take less than a microsecond to figure out where the others should<BR>point.&nbsp; And that's with current computers.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; 2) calculate the exact firing sequence (which would be staggered<BR>&gt;due to variations in distance) for each involved laser;<BR><BR>Why staggered?&nbsp; How far is the target going to move in (at most) a few<BR>tens of nanoseconds?&nbsp; I can pretty much guarantee that it will be less<BR>than the beam diameter.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; 3) physically aim the multiple lasers at that exact aimpoint;<BR><BR>No more difficult than aiming one.&nbsp; Unless some of your turrets are<BR>damaged (but then they're useless anyway).&nbsp; You could even just keep<BR>them synchronised until explicitly directed to split their aim between<BR>multiple targets.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 18:04:02 -0800<BR>From: Tod Glenn &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>on 12/18/00 5:08 PM, Jesse DeGraff at jdegraff@pacbell.net wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I've got a semi-auto AKM from about '87 or so.&nbsp; I had it at the shoot with<BR>&gt; me, but never brought it out.&nbsp; It shoots about minute-of-barn, which is one<BR>&gt; reason I never brought it out :)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Jesse<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Yeah, AKs are not known for their accuracy.&nbsp; Save that 7.62x39, though for<BR>May.&nbsp; Recall that Paul has that M16 in 7.62.<BR><BR>Tod<BR>- --<BR>When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend"<BR>- -- <BR>Tod L Glenn<BR>webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.solsec.org<BR>http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>http://travellerguns.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:52:13 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Culture &amp; Power Theft<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Doug Berry types:<BR>&gt;&gt;At 04:21 AM 12/18/2000 PST, you wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; And, what about your electrical power, do they try &amp; steal that as<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;well?<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;No, they steal *that* from Oregon. :-)<BR>&gt;&gt;Hey!&nbsp; We pay for ever watt!&nbsp; (I'm looking at our PG&amp;E [Pacific Graft and<BR>&gt;&gt;Extortion] bill as i write..)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Hmmm...I've heard it as "Pacific Greed &amp; Extortion."<BR>&gt; Alternate meaning for the suits in SF HQ : "Play Games &amp; Eat."<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; An old friend used to write out her checks to "Pacific Gas &amp; Extortion."<BR>&gt; Yes, they were cashed promptly...<BR><BR>Oddly enough, the biggest Electric utility in Portland is PGE -<BR>Portland General Electric. The other is PP&amp;L - Pacific Power &amp; Light,<BR>which is now part of some Scottish power company (I'd have to check my<BR>stock certificates to see what the name is :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 19:19:27 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>From: Jesse Degraff &lt;jedegraf@cisco.com&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&gt;How did Mark's twice-a-year shoot become my monthly fun shoot?&nbsp; And I live<BR>&gt;in the PRK (People's Republic of Kalifornia) where you can't have these<BR>&gt;wonderful toys!<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 1. The Jesse Degraff Monthly Fun Shoot sounds better the the Mark's<BR>Twice-a-Year-Fun Shoot.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 2. You are just so lovable that we could sell Jesse Degraff Teddy Bears<BR>to all of the kiddies &amp; make money.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 3. Why the hell not?<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 4. So we can have Ditzie T-Shirts made with "The Jesse Degraff Monthly<BR>Fun Shoot" printed on then.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 5. So we can tell Kenji once a month that he cannot touch a weapon &amp; get<BR>away with it.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 6. So I can get out to one of them.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 7. So I can shoot that 20mm Cannon.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 8. K'kree Bar-B-Qued Ribs served at every Fun Shoot.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 9. When Aslan Females in Comfortable Shoes&nbsp; were polled, they prefered<BR>the "The Jesse Degraff Monthly Fun Shoot" over "Mark's Twice-a-Year-Fun<BR>Shoot".<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 10. When Pirates were polled, they prefered the "The Jesse Degraff<BR>Monthly Fun Shoot" over "Mark's Twice-a-Year-Fun Shoot".<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 11. When Near-C Rocks were polled, they prefered the "The Jesse Degraff<BR>Monthly Fun Shoot" over "Mark's Twice-a-Year-Fun Shoot".<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 12. When Virus&nbsp; Offshoots were polled, they prefered the "The Jesse<BR>Degraff Monthly Fun Shoot" over "Mark's Twice-a-Year-Fun Shoot".<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 13. When members of the RCES were polled, they prefered the "The Jesse<BR>Degraff Monthly Fun Shoot" over "Mark's Twice-a-Year-Fun Shoot".<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 14. When Zhodani were polled, they prefered the "The Jesse Degraff<BR>Monthly Fun Shoot" over "Mark's Twice-a-Year-Fun Shoot".<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 15. When Sword Worlders were polled, they prefered the "The Jesse<BR>Degraff Monthly Fun Shoot" over "Mark's Twice-a-Year-Fun Shoot".<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 16. Cause the Roc says so.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 17. Hey it beats watching another bad Voyager Ep.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 18. The Jesse Degraff M41A Pulse Rifle/ACR was designed with you in<BR>mind.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 21:20:59 EST<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3421<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; That's where I got hung up -- I gave them all the originals, which <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; they're keeping, and ordered the various local/state/federal offices <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; to seal my records "while they're investigating".<BR><BR>That sounds odd -- perhaps there is something special about your case -- all <BR>I had to sumbit was certified copies of the relevant documents. I had the <BR>advantage of applying in the same county where I was born, of course . . . <BR>and having attended high school with the clerk processing the application.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; Seriously, I think you need to talk to a lawyer.<BR><BR>Certainly a complaint to a congressman -- that is what the critters are for . <BR>. .<BR><BR>LKW<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 20:25:40 -0600<BR>From: WDR &lt;eviloverlord668@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Skills and stuff<BR><BR>&gt; Me like broad skills.&nbsp; Particularly for weapons.<BR>&gt; It always seemed like a pain to get a skill like Pistol<BR>&gt; on a roll, when I already have Rifle-3 (which gives<BR>&gt; Pistol-2 already).&nbsp; I sort of prefer Guns-X (with a<BR>&gt; +1 or something if it's a preferred weapon).<BR>&gt; <BR>Do what we do - if you don't want Pistol-1, add it to Rifle.&nbsp; <BR><BR>The way I see it, the career charts (at least in CT and MT - I've never<BR>played Gurps or TNE) are just guidelines.&nbsp; I let players roll their d6<BR>for skill determination and THEN decide which list they want to pick<BR>from.&nbsp; Its more like the real world - people tend to learn what they<BR>want. <BR><BR>I mean, if someone wants a character with Pilot-6 or Pilot-34 or<BR>whatever, that's fine with me.&nbsp; Heheheh...what's SuperPilot Mammoth-X51<BR>gonna do when he's caught in a knife fight with an enraged Gurvin<BR>icecream salesman in a dark alley in Bukhara?&nbsp; Probably bleed a lot and<BR>wish he'd NEVER gotten off the spaceship.&nbsp; <BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Perhaps this idea can be folded into Chargen as well?<BR>&gt; For example:&nbsp; Army Basic Training: Brawling-0, Gun-0, Vehicle-0).<BR>&gt; Merchant Training (Steward-0, Streetwise-0, Bribery-0)<BR>&gt; Things like that?<BR><BR>*scratches head*<BR>What the heck is Chargen?&nbsp; I like this idea - beats the heck out of<BR>attending Special Training and not gaining a single skill because your<BR>die decides for once that it will NOT roll higher than 2.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; HOLLYWOOD IS BULLSHIT.&nbsp; TV AND MOVIES ARE BULLSHIT.<BR>&gt; DO NOT BELIEVE<BR>&gt; WHAT YOU<BR>&gt; SEE ON TV.&nbsp; EVERYONE IN THE U.S.A. KNOWS THAT WHATEVER<BR>&gt; COMES OUT OF THE<BR>&gt; MEDIA IS A STEAMING CROCK OF STINKING BULLSHIT AND<BR>&gt; LIES. Except ESPN.<BR>&gt; <BR>Don't worry...the Tavrchedl' will be by shortly to make television<BR>enjoyable for you again.<BR><BR>WDR<BR><BR>*coming soon to a website near you:&nbsp; Return of the Ancients*<BR>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/9327/main.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 13:35:37 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Seas of LOX<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>[I wrote:]<BR>&gt; &gt; True enough.&nbsp; You'd want a fully oxidised crust though, or a little<BR>&gt; &gt; bit of space-dust hitting at 60 km/s might set the whole world on fire<BR>&gt; &gt; :^)<BR><BR>&gt; And the little bit of space dust will burn nicely.<BR><BR>Yes, it and everything else that isn't already oxidised.<BR><BR>(Hmm -- heat from a ship's thrusters?&nbsp; "It can't possibly be liquid<BR>oxygen!&nbsp; Just set down near the shoreline")<BR><BR><BR>&gt; I have -268.93 C as the boiling point. That's 4.22 K. So yeah, it looks<BR>&gt; like it's gonna be close..<BR><BR>The boiling point can go as high as 5.2K under 2 atmospheres, at the<BR>critical point.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; It quotes a paper as saying at at 1/2 parsec from a sunlike star, a<BR>&gt; mirror with a radius of 1500 km would collect about a megawatt. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; That works out to about 140 nw/m^2.<BR><BR>That's just for one star.&nbsp; You have to sum over the contribution from<BR>*all* stars -- even the ones obscured by dust clouds which are going<BR>to be pretty close to thermal equilibrium themselves.<BR><BR>As a first cut, I considered the galaxy as a uniformly luminous disk<BR>by neglecting the core's contribution.&nbsp; That should give a lower limit<BR>to flux since the core will add to that.&nbsp; It should be a fairly good<BR>approximation.<BR><BR>It looks like adding the core back in doesn't change much -- it's<BR>quite a distance away and the contribution is lower than the nearby<BR>stars.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; So that'd give a lower boundary. I'm not up to figuring the effective<BR>&gt; temp that goes with that flux.<BR><BR>For a black body, 140 nW/m^2 corresponds to a temperature of about 1.3<BR>K.&nbsp; T = (flux/sigma)^(1/4), where sigma is the Stefan-Boltzmann<BR>constant, about 5.67e-8 W / m^2 K^4.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Keep in mind the fact that below 10k, gaseous helium might as well be<BR>&gt; liquid as far as heat conductivity and the like go.<BR><BR>Yes, very true.&nbsp; It just won't settle into puddles or have a defined<BR>surface.&nbsp; I wonder if thermal eascape of helium to space could cool<BR>the world to below the equilibrium temperature?&nbsp; Hmm... not for<BR>geological time periods, so forget that.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 18:10:34 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Reft sector X-boat link<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Remember, the stars/planets/etc are *moving* relative to each other. If<BR>&gt;&gt;you emerge from jump on time, and with good accuracy, you are quite<BR>&gt;&gt;near whatever point on the "near" side of the 100 diameter limit you<BR>&gt;&gt;were aiming at. <BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt;But if you emerge a dozen hours early or late, you'll be quite near<BR>&gt;&gt;that same point. But the *planet* won't be there.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; There is no evidence anywhere in canon that the emergence point does<BR>&gt; not move with time and quite a lot to suggest that it does. Despite<BR>&gt; what I was told very recently that "Absence of evidence is not<BR>&gt; evidence of absence", I would say that in some cases it is. We have a<BR>&gt; number of descriptions of jump travel and in all of them it is<BR>&gt; mentioned that jump duration varies. In none of them, however, is it<BR>&gt; even suggested that this affects the time it takes to go from the<BR>&gt; emergence point to the planet. The logical deduction is that it does<BR>&gt; not matter. Which is easiest explained by saying that the emergence<BR>&gt; point moves along with the target world.<BR><BR>No, it's most easily explained by saying that the authors never thought<BR>of it.<BR><BR>You *did* note that for a 1 day early or late emergence, the difference<BR>amounts to around an hour at 1 g?<BR><BR>Assuming the emergence point moves brings in a host of questions that I<BR>don't think we want to deal with. To start with, how does it know which<BR>way to move?<BR><BR>After all, it's *also* an established fact in the game that you can<BR>jump into "empty" space. The early expeditions from Earth had to do<BR>that as there aren't any stars within J1 of Earth.<BR><BR>So how does the drive know that you are jumping for a point outside the<BR>planet's 100 diameter limit, rather than to a point in empty space that<BR>happens to be near a planet?<BR><BR>Also, this means that fleets would wind up *more* scattered than they do.<BR>Because every ship would come out at a different spot relative to the<BR>planet, depending on how long it was in jump, rather than staying in<BR>more or less the same spot relative to the rest of the fleet and just<BR>coming out at a different time.<BR><BR>So it's actually simpler to assume that the ship aims for a specific<BR>*point* relative to its starting point, and comes out there +/- some<BR>distance. <BR><BR>It can just be ignored most of the time as it usually doesn't matter<BR>much more than headwinds/tailwinds do with aircraft. It affects<BR>arrival/departure times, but mostly gets ignored.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 20:45:31 -0600<BR>From: Steve Daniels &lt;stevedaniels@portcaddo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Skills and stuff<BR><BR>WDR wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; *scratches head*<BR>&gt; What the heck is Chargen?<BR><BR>Traveller Grognard abbreviation of "Character Generation".<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt; HOLLYWOOD IS BULLSHIT.&nbsp; TV AND MOVIES ARE BULLSHIT.<BR><BR>Don't know where this spam came from.&nbsp; It wasn't<BR>in my post, which you were quoting up to this point.<BR><BR>bloo<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 18:50:06 -0800<BR>From: "Bruce Macintosh" &lt;bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Seas of LOX<BR><BR>&gt;Ok... What kinds of really really cold liquids would we see on a rouge<BR>&gt;planet?<BR><BR>Really cold planets probably won't have any liquid - past a point, the<BR>atmosphere<BR>all freezes, and liquids become impractical.<BR><BR>Moderately cold (90K) planets can have seas of liquid methane/ethane, like<BR>Titan probably does.<BR><BR>Liquid nitrogen is a marginal possibility though I'm not sure what you'd make<BR>the atmosphere out of to go with it.<BR><BR>Bruce<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 20:47:57 -0600<BR>From: Steve Daniels &lt;stevedaniels@portcaddo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: (7) Summary - KB3 Traveller System (Playtest)<BR><BR>david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Your hand-to-hand example obviously uses Opposed Rolls, but what if someone<BR>&gt; is shooting at a target from a distance?<BR><BR>Would a moving target just be a more difficult task<BR>than a still one?&nbsp; Or might you use the target's dex<BR>and do an opposed roll?<BR><BR>bloo<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 19:07:35 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: re American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising Each Other...<BR><BR>&gt;From: peersce@mindspring.com<BR>&gt;Subject: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising Each Other<BR>in General<BR>...<BR>&gt;figure out how they get close enough to reproduce.&nbsp; The French as a nation<BR>&gt;are out for themselves first, last, and always, and they don't even have the<BR>&gt;decorum to pretend otherwise and put themselves out once in while for the<BR>&gt;country that saved them twice.&nbsp; As soon as the last German soldier left<BR>&gt;French soil, we suddenly lost all our cool points. <BR><BR>&nbsp; Very bitter - you must be British? :)<BR><BR>&nbsp; Hmm, I wonder how many worlds were better off under the Solomani <BR>and regret being liberated - and did the Impies actually bother to<BR>ask themselves that and check? Hmm...<BR><BR>&gt;Regarding Finnish comments on American contradictions:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; I did not detect any America bashing in the relevant Finnish postings,<BR>&gt;merely observations.&nbsp; Here's a Finnish contradiction:&nbsp; Why do Finnish people<BR>&gt;knife each other when drunk, when they have guns?<BR><BR>&nbsp; They enjoy the challenge? :&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:09:41 -0500<BR>From: "VonRammen" &lt;von_rammen@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Jack of all Trades: Thanks!<BR><BR>Eris Reddoch &lt;eris@pcola.gulf.net&gt; notes:<BR><BR><BR>&gt;The idea behind JOAT is basically that you are okay with many skills,<BR><BR>Eris, thanks for giving me the wedge I need to send my belated thanks to the<BR>list...<BR><BR>About two months ago, I asked how list members resolved multiple levels of<BR>J-o-T skill, and J-o-T in general. The responses were not only informative<BR>and interesting, but told me lots of other people had a problem figuring out<BR>what to do as well.<BR><BR>After thinking some more on the problem, here's my solution, tailored for<BR>DGP/MT task system. MT gives PCs one free retry for each level of JOAT, but<BR>does not mention if they receive the CT "skill-0 in all skills" benefit. I<BR>think that they should get the Skill-0 benefit. In addition, instead of a<BR>free *retry*, each level of JOAT above one gives a free *reroll,* which can<BR>be applied immediately with no time penalty. In essence, the player gets to<BR>roll his task attempt a number of times equal to his JOAT skill.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; This results in a probability curve where the chance of failure is<BR>roughly equivalent to having an *actual* skill level in the skill JOAT is<BR>replacing. However, the MT task system results in the following effects:<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; --Mishaps are still more likely for people using JOAT<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; --Formidible tasks are essentially out of reach of JOAT, except for the<BR>rare cases when two skills are being used, instead of skill+attribute. (The<BR>GM may rule that the JOAT rerolls do not apply in such cases, JOAT merely<BR>avoiding the "unskilled" penalty.)<BR><BR>Again thanks to all on the TML for your help!<BR><BR>Fred Ramen<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 21:19:59 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: re American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising Each&nbsp; Other...<BR><BR>Steven Hudson wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;From: peersce@mindspring.com<BR><BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; I did not detect any America bashing in the relevant Finnish postings,<BR>&gt; &gt;merely observations.&nbsp; Here's a Finnish contradiction:&nbsp; Why do Finnish people<BR>&gt; &gt;knife each other when drunk, when they have guns?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; They enjoy the challenge? :&gt;<BR><BR>Either that, or they prefer to save their ammo for the Russians.... ;-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3422<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-xb05.mx.aol.com (rly-xb05.mail.aol.com [172.20.105.106]) by air-xb02.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:21:40 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-xb05.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:21:15 1900<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id WAA36593;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:18:32 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:17:54 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id WAA36538<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:17:54 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:17:54 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012190317.WAA36538@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3422<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, December 19 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3423<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Odd weapons question<BR>Re: Those Damn French <BR>Re: Odd weapons question<BR>Antigua Design<BR>Re: Antigua Design<BR>Re: Reft sector X-boat link<BR>Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising Each Other in General<BR>Re: RE: H&amp;E The End<BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR>Re: H&amp;E The End<BR>Re: (7) Summary - KB3 Traveller System (Playtest)<BR>Re: Milieu: 0 support is here!<BR>Re: Skills and stuff<BR>Re: (7) Summary - KB3 Traveller System (Playtest)<BR>Re: CLIMAX! Conclusion to the Traveller Adventure<BR>Re: Jack of all Trades: Thanks!<BR>Re: CLIMAX! Conclusion to the Traveller Adventure<BR>RE: RE: H&amp;E The End<BR>Playtest of KB3<BR>Re: Brian Daley (Re: Alan Dean Foster)<BR>Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 21:39:42 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Odd weapons question<BR><BR>Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; All of these calculations would occur, not<BR>&gt; &gt; in the controlled setting of a laser fusion plant, but in combat, with<BR>&gt; &gt; both the firing ship and the target maneuvering to avoid enemy fire.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Yes, but none of the calculations are any harder than firing a single laser.<BR><BR>I disagree.&nbsp; After all, aiming one laser means pointing it in one<BR>direction.&nbsp; The target can be _anywhere_ along that line of bearing for<BR>the laser to hit.&nbsp; Focusing multiple lasers on one spot requires that<BR>the target be _at that exact spot_ for the lasers to have any additional<BR>effect (which seems to be the point of the original post).&nbsp; If the<BR>target has shifted _at all_ in relative distance, the multiple laser<BR>beams will strike different parts of the hull, thus preventing any<BR>additive effect.<BR><BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>- -- <BR>AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 19:52:39 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: Those Damn French <BR><BR>&gt;From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>...<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; True the French helped us out in the Revolution, but after the<BR>&gt;Revolution they wanted a tribute from us, spawning the famous American<BR>&gt;saying, "Millions for Defense, but not a penny in Tribute". <BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; Wasn't that to do with the Barbary pirates and ransoming hostages?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:16:11 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Odd weapons question<BR><BR>Timothy Little wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; John Groth wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; As I see it, you would suffer at least some reduction in rate of fire,<BR>&gt; &gt; since your fire control systems would need to: 1) calculate an exact<BR>&gt; &gt; aimpoint for more than one laser;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Trivial.&nbsp; If you can calculate where one laser has to point, it should<BR>&gt; take less than a microsecond to figure out where the others should<BR>&gt; point.&nbsp; And that's with current computers.<BR><BR>Not trivial.&nbsp; Calculating where one laser should point to have a decent<BR>chance of hitting an enemy ship _somewhere_ is far simpler than<BR>calculating where multiple lasers should point to hit an enemy ship<BR>_simultaneously at the exact same point_.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; 2) calculate the exact firing sequence (which would be staggered<BR>&gt; &gt;due to variations in distance) for each involved laser;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Why staggered?&nbsp; How far is the target going to move in (at most) a few<BR>&gt; tens of nanoseconds?&nbsp; I can pretty much guarantee that it will be less<BR>&gt; than the beam diameter.<BR><BR>But Traveller space combat often takes place at ranges of one light<BR>second or more.&nbsp; At those ranges, a minor shift one way or another will<BR>keep those multiple laser beams from focusing _simultaneously at the<BR>exact same point_.<BR><BR>Again, unless the multiple beams hit the target _simultaneously at the<BR>exact same point_, there will be no additional penetration or damage<BR>(which is the only logical intent of the original question).<BR><BR>(BTW, I keep stressing the idea that multiple lasers must hit the target<BR>"simultaneously at the exact same point" because multiple lasers that<BR>hit the target at different points or times can not be expected to add<BR>to each other's penetration (the apparent point of the original<BR>question).<BR><BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>- -- <BR>AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 23:14:28 EST<BR>From: TOCoons@cs.com<BR>Subject: Antigua Design<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I'm afraid I'm not much of a character, <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I have glasses and a full head of hair but no beard, and I don't know <BR>anybody in my area who actively plays Traveller, but I like designing MTU.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I keep most of my opinions on political, religious, and sexual topics <BR>well off the list.&nbsp; I have no gift for killing keyboards,&nbsp; and I NEVER drink <BR>and TML.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I have no particular taste or dislike in game systems: in building MTU I <BR>use material from TNE; Path of Tears; World Tamer's Handbook; FF&amp;S2; Pocket <BR>Empires; Imperial Squadrons, GT: First In; Far Trader; and Starports, and I <BR>have several others to borrow from as it becomes appropriate.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; MTU is some 1200 years in the distant past of most TUs in the unexplored <BR>heart of the empire, hasn't encountered the Vargr, K'Kree, Hivers, Soloman, <BR>Aslan, Darrians or Sword Worlds, or Zhodani, and won't for some time yet, and <BR>5FW and Virus are both in the far distant future, <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I don't like reactionless thrusters,&nbsp; near-C rocks,&nbsp; or drop tanks <BR>either, but MTU does have pirates :-P<BR><BR>Now that that's out of the way, does anyone have low-tech designs (TL 9-11) <BR>for use in the Nth Interstellar war, M:0, or&nbsp; TNE periods, or for pocket <BR>empires? What about small craft and planetary vehicles? Does anyone want <BR>them? Is there a possible niche for Antigua Design (Low-tech, low-cost <BR>transportation designs for the discerning customer)? <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:27:00 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Antigua Design<BR><BR>TOCoons@cs.com wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Now that that's out of the way, does anyone have low-tech designs (TL 9-11)<BR>&gt; for use in the Nth Interstellar war, M:0, or&nbsp; TNE periods, or for pocket<BR>&gt; empires? What about small craft and planetary vehicles? Does anyone want<BR>&gt; them? Is there a possible niche for Antigua Design (Low-tech, low-cost<BR>&gt; transportation designs for the discerning customer)?<BR><BR>I have a couple of cruiser designs at TL 9 (using FF&amp;S2), and am always<BR>willing to design to specs.&nbsp; E-mail me off-list for details (and Excel<BR>5.0 spreadsheets).<BR><BR>- -- <BR>AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:28:41 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Reft sector X-boat link<BR><BR>On 12/18/00 at 04:05 PM,&nbsp; Hans Rancke-Madsen &lt;rancke@diku.dk&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;Leonard Erickson writes:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Remember, the stars/planets/etc are *moving* relative to each other. If<BR>&gt;&gt;you emerge from jump on time, and with good accuracy, you are quite<BR>&gt;&gt;near whatever point on the "near" side of the 100 diameter limit you<BR>&gt;&gt;were aiming at. <BR><BR>&gt;&gt;But if you emerge a dozen hours early or late, you'll be quite near<BR>&gt;&gt;that same point. But the *planet* won't be there.<BR><BR>&gt;There is no evidence anywhere in canon that the emergence point<BR>&gt;does not move with time and quite a lot to suggest that it does.<BR>&gt;Despite what I was told very recently that "Absence of evidence is<BR>&gt;not evidence of absence", I would say that in some cases it is. We<BR>&gt;have a number of descriptions of jump travel and in all of them it<BR>&gt;is mentioned that jump duration varies. In none of them, however,<BR>&gt;is it even suggested that this affects the time it takes to go from<BR>&gt;the emergence point to the planet. The logical deduction is that it<BR>&gt;does not matter. Which is easiest explained by saying that the<BR>&gt;emergence point moves along with the target world.<BR><BR>Not canon perhaps, but of course that doesn't matter to me, but IMTU<BR>jump duration does alter time to mainworld.&nbsp; To give an example of<BR>something liek this...if the mainworld and it's system is moving at<BR>30 km/s, then each hour early or late moves the ship 108 000 km away<BR>from it's optimal entry point.<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 08:37:43 +0400<BR>From: "Andrew Long" &lt;dyrnwynn@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising Each Other in General<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 10:58:42 -0500<BR>&gt; From: peersce@mindspring.com<BR>&gt; Subject: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising Each Other<BR>in General<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Regarding the French:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The farther away you get from Paris, the better French people are.<BR>When<BR><BR>&lt; MAJOR SNIP&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; les Francaise<BR>&gt;<BR>You know, I just started reading this and I thought, 'now that sounds<BR>familiar...' Then I realised that you could substitute 'Britain' for<BR>'France', and 'London' for 'Paris' (You'd have problems about the 'learning<BR>English', though..)<BR><BR>And I AM British (and a neut^h^h^haturalised Australian, too)<BR><BR>Andy<BR><BR>========================================================================<BR>Andy Long<BR>dyrnwynn@HotMail.com<BR>========================================================================<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 08:44:58 +0400<BR>From: "Andrew Long" &lt;dyrnwynn@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: RE: H&amp;E The End<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 12:15:03 -0800<BR>&gt; From: "Jesse Degraff" &lt;jedegraf@cisco.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: H&amp;E The End<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; :(<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Let me then say "Thank You!!!!" for all the hard work that you did Stuart!<BR>&gt; It's a great program!!!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Jesse<BR>&gt; (who never really had time for testing)<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>And let me echo that sentiment.. It's a shame to see something this good<BR>just vanish into the haze.<BR><BR>Is there any chance that anyone can continue to develop it?<BR><BR>regards, Andy<BR><BR>=====================================================================<BR>Andy Long<BR>dyrnwynn@HotMail.com<BR>=====================================================================<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 07:50:55 +0300<BR>From: "Ken J. Kazinski" &lt;kjkazinski@ksaits.com&gt;<BR>Subject: unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 20:48:07<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: H&amp;E The End<BR><BR>At 07:56 PM 12/18/2000 -0000, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;The Website, Mirrors and Mailing Lists will remain open until the new year<BR>&gt;when all H&amp;E content will be removed.<BR><BR>Stuart, some of us have been saving up for new computers just so we can run<BR>H&amp;E.&nbsp; Perhaps Sylea Downport or Freelance Traveller could take over the<BR>hosting?<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 23:07:00 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: (7) Summary - KB3 Traveller System (Playtest)<BR><BR>david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Looks like a great system! Only hole I can see: what are the direct-fire<BR>&gt; combat difficulties?<BR><BR>That's not a hole!<BR><BR>I left that out.&nbsp; I was only posting the task system (and note:&nbsp; I've already<BR>made a small change in measuring a throw against a stat--what I had posted took<BR>too much thinking, so I made it easier--info at a glace method...the playtest<BR>goes on!).<BR><BR>I'm basically using CT rules for my playtest, but I'm using the (very good,<BR>IMO) T4 combat system.<BR><BR>So, here's a quick few notes (I was planning on writing this up later once KB3<BR>was fully tested...but I'll give you a heads up here).<BR><BR><BR>Range Table<BR>- ------------------------------------<BR>1D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Easy&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Contact...............0-3m<BR>2D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Average&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Very Short..........4-15m<BR>3D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Difficult&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Short...................16-45m<BR>4D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Formidable Medium..............46-150m<BR>5D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Staggering&nbsp;&nbsp; Long..................151-450m<BR>6D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Impossible&nbsp; Very Long..........451-1500m<BR><BR>(Note:&nbsp; I went with these ranges--straight out of T4--because they are based on<BR>a 1.5m square for mapping)<BR><BR><BR>Weapons:&nbsp; I'm using T4, CT, and MT weapons interchangeably, but I'm using the<BR>T4 method of combat.<BR><BR>Which is...basically.....<BR>(1)&nbsp; The more damage and penetration a weapon can do is reflected in how much<BR>damage dice it has.<BR><BR>(2)&nbsp; Each weapon is listed with an effective range (the weapon can fire up to<BR>two range levels past that range at a penalty).&nbsp; (It is fairly easy to eyeball<BR>CT and MT weapons, giving them effective ranges--and I have some GDW CT stuff<BR>that lists effective ranges for CT weapons.)<BR><BR>(3)&nbsp; All armor is listed has having an Armor Value.&nbsp; When a hit is score, the<BR>AV is deducted from the total number of dice applied for damage.&nbsp; If there is<BR>anything left over, the weapon penetrated, and those dice are rolled for damage<BR>on the character.&nbsp; The AVs in MT are perfectly interchangeable with T4 AVs (and<BR>all CT armors are listed in MT, so I already have AVs for every type of armor<BR>in the game).<BR><BR>(4)&nbsp; I'm also using the Kinetic Energy Rule from T4, which basically states:&nbsp; A<BR>slug or other type of damage delivery device providing damage through kinetic<BR>energy will basically "punch through" it's target, wasteing a lot of its<BR>energy--"carrying it through".&nbsp; Therefore, a limit on KE weapons is 3D damage<BR>(no matter how much damage penetrated armor)...exceptions include shotguns,<BR>which have a limit of 4D.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Combat Round is 6 seconds:&nbsp; Characters are allowed to move and act or act and<BR>move.<BR><BR>On the movement table below, a "Run" counts as a double move (meaning that they<BR>are not allow to act--only move).&nbsp; I'm going to allow multiple actions, but I<BR>haven't worked that out quite yet.<BR><BR><BR>Movement Table<BR>- ------------------<BR>Crawl&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 6m per rd. (four 1.5m squares)<BR>Cautious Step&nbsp; 6m per rd. (four 1.5m squares)<BR><BR>Walk&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 15m per rd. (ten 1.5m squares)<BR><BR>Run&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 30m per rd. (twenty 1.5m squares)<BR><BR><BR><BR>I have other rules too...like<BR>initiative...surprise....aiming....autofire....etc.&nbsp; But there is no need to<BR>list all that stuff here.&nbsp; You'll get it in the full KB3 write up when playtest<BR>is over.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Your hand-to-hand example obviously uses Opposed Rolls,<BR><BR>Opposed rolls are defined in one of the previous posts.&nbsp; I think I just caught<BR>you looking only at the summary!<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; And<BR>&gt; what bonuses to give to each weapon?<BR><BR>Actually, I'm going to use the Stat bonuses/negatives straight out of CT.&nbsp; I<BR>like how a character can "custom fit" a weapon to himself using those, and<BR>those DMs make the weapons "individuals".<BR><BR>For the same reason, I'm going to use the range DMs in CT too (yeah, I<BR>know...range is already figured by the task throw difficulty, but I like how<BR>weapons are "differentiated" using these DMs.&nbsp; It makes weapons "individual",<BR>like the stat bonuses do.&nbsp; (But, the DMs for armor are being replaced with the<BR>AVs from T4/MT).<BR><BR>One quickie note:&nbsp; In KB3, a character can add positive DMs to his throw.&nbsp; But,<BR>if a negative DM is called for, it is not deducted from the Task Throw--the<BR>negative DM is ADDED to the Difficulty Throw.<BR><BR>So, if you've got a Dex of 6, and you're using an autopistol, +2 will be added<BR>to the Difficulty Throw INSTEAD of -2 being deducted from the Task Throw to<BR>hit.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; And how to work out Weapon Pen vs<BR>&gt; Target Armour (maybe an Opposed Roll here, with the attacker rolling for<BR>&gt; weapon pen and the defender rolling for their armour)?<BR><BR>This is taken care of in the T4 AV vs weapon damage system noted above.&nbsp; I'm<BR>just using T4 straight out of the box in this area.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; The Difficulty Levels for Range are the sort of things that need to be<BR>&gt; playtested.<BR><BR>Naww.&nbsp; I tested the T4 stuff.&nbsp; Those difficulties (which are my difficulties--I<BR>just roll them differently) are pretty standard throughout Traveller.&nbsp; When I<BR>compared, T4 weapons basically fire at the same range as MT weapons, and those<BR>fire basically at the same range as T4 CT weapons.<BR><BR>There is much in the CT/MT/T4 editions of Traveller that is interchangeable.<BR><BR>And...all that above?&nbsp; That's probably a lot more than you wanted to hear...<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 23:08:05 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Milieu: 0 support is here!<BR><BR>James Jensen wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; The Milieu: 0 Aid Society is dedicated to providing things that M:0 has been<BR>&gt; needing. First and foremost is an unofficial Traveller News Service for M:0.<BR>&gt; I've got permission from Marc himself and I've already posted one<BR>&gt; installment. The next should come soon.<BR><BR>Coolness.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 23:11:09 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Skills and stuff<BR><BR>WDR wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; *scratches head*<BR>&gt; What the heck is Chargen?<BR><BR>Character Generation.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt; HOLLYWOOD IS BULLSHIT.&nbsp; TV AND MOVIES ARE BULLSHIT.<BR><BR>Watch your tongue!&nbsp; I'm a filmmaker!<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 23:16:10 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: (7) Summary - KB3 Traveller System (Playtest)<BR><BR>Steve Daniels wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Would a moving target just be a more difficult task<BR>&gt; than a still one?&nbsp; Or might you use the target's dex<BR>&gt; and do an opposed roll?<BR><BR>Good question.&nbsp; I think a moving target should definitely be harder to shoot.<BR>This is one of those "little things" that I haven't worked out yet (I'm focussing<BR>on the "bigger issues" right now).<BR><BR>But, I will probably consult CT and see how they handled the issue...then look at<BR>MT...then TNE...then T4...and maybe sources like Azhanti High Lightning or<BR>Snapshot...<BR><BR>And with that research completed, I'll either steal something straight...or<BR>modify something from one of these sources...or get ideas for a brainstorm to<BR>come up with something completely new.<BR><BR>This will be one of those little "optional rules" I'll list with the full write<BR>up of KB3 once it is completely tested.<BR><BR>(And, I can see adding things to KB3 down the road, making the system dynamic,<BR>allowing it to grow into new Traveller situations that may pop up.)<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:11:49 +1000<BR>From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: CLIMAX! Conclusion to the Traveller Adventure<BR><BR>Thanks Kenneth. Great work.<BR>This is the sort of thing I subscribe to the TML for!<BR><BR>Graeme<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 23:18:20 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jack of all Trades: Thanks!<BR><BR>VonRammen wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; About two months ago, I asked how list members resolved multiple levels of<BR>&gt; J-o-T skill, and J-o-T in general. The responses were not only informative<BR>&gt; and interesting, but told me lots of other people had a problem figuring out<BR>&gt; what to do as well.<BR><BR>It seems like every edition of Traveller handles JOT differently...and that<BR>confuses people.&nbsp; It sure as heck confuses me.<BR><BR>I think JOT is the most "non-consistent" mechanic in the full spectrum of<BR>Traveller editions.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 23:22:02 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: CLIMAX! Conclusion to the Traveller Adventure<BR><BR>Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Thanks Kenneth. Great work.<BR>&gt; This is the sort of thing I subscribe to the TML for!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Graeme<BR><BR>You bet, Graeme.&nbsp; I'm glad you liked it...hope you get some use out of<BR>it for your game.<BR><BR>That last document is not yet completed, but you'll be able to find out<BR>what happened to Shawn Grey and the March Harrier soon.&nbsp; I'll post the<BR>end of that stuff as soon as I finish the third document.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 18:49:46 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: RE: H&amp;E The End<BR><BR>Andrew Long wrote :<BR>&gt; &gt; Let me then say "Thank You!!!!" for all the hard work that you<BR>&gt; &gt; did Stuart!<BR>&gt; &gt; It's a great program!!!<BR>&gt; &gt; Jesse<BR>&gt; &gt; (who never really had time for testing)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; And let me echo that sentiment.. It's a shame to see something this good<BR>&gt; just vanish into the haze.<BR><BR>Yeah, ditto.<BR><BR>&gt; Is there any chance that anyone can continue to develop it?<BR><BR>Well, I've already offered (several months ago) to port it all to Java so<BR>we'd have the system available on platforms other than Windoze. But Stuart<BR>wanted to keep his source code, which is, of course, his prerogative.<BR><BR>I'm quite happy to provide support if he wants some-one to keep it going.<BR>I've got several years of experience of NT GUI development in C, C++, Visual<BR>Basic &amp; Delphi, among others.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 23:46:11 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Playtest of KB3<BR><BR>For those of you following the KB3 thread, I've made minor change in how<BR>a Task Throw is measured.<BR><BR>The version I posted is a little awkward in play.&nbsp; KB3 needs to be<BR>detailed, but it also needs to be quick.<BR><BR>Boom.&nbsp; You do it.&nbsp; You see it.&nbsp; Let's move on...keep the momentum of the<BR>game rolling.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; =====&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; =====&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; =====<BR><BR><BR>So, when measuring a Stat (and feel free to playtest KB3 in your<BR>games...please let me know the results if you do), follow this<BR>method....<BR><BR>(1)&nbsp; You want to attempt a task?&nbsp; Throw a number of dice equal to your<BR>Skill +1.<BR><BR>(2)&nbsp; Difficulty will be thrown against your throw, and this throw is<BR>either a Task Throw by an opposing character (an Opposed Throw) or it is<BR>based on the Difficulty Table.<BR><BR>(3)&nbsp; If the Task Throw beats the Difficulty Throw...the task is<BR>successful.&nbsp; If the DT does not beat the DT...the task is not successful<BR>(simple as that).<BR><BR><BR>***THEN, ONCE YOU'VE THROWN, SIMPLY COMPARE THE ROLL TO THE GOVERNING<BR>STAT OF THE SKILL YOU JUST USED***<BR><BR><BR>(1)&nbsp; If you have a successful throw....<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ....is your throw LOWER than the governing Stat?&nbsp; If so,<BR>you've got GREATER SUCCESS.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ...is your throw LOWER than the total of the Difficulty Throw<BR>+ Stat?&nbsp; If so, you've got a standard SUCCESS.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ...is your throw HIGHER than the total of the Difficulty Throw<BR>+ Stat?&nbsp; If so, you've got a MARGINAL SUCCESS.<BR><BR><BR>(2)&nbsp; Or...if you failed the throw....<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ...is your throw HIGHER than the Difficulty Throw - Stat?&nbsp; If<BR>so, you've got a regular FAILURE.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ...is your throw LOWER than the Difficulty Throw - Stat?&nbsp; If<BR>so, you've got a GREATER FAILURE on your hands.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ...is your total EQUAL TO 0 or LOWER because of the E-Die or<BR>DMs?&nbsp; If so, you've just fumbled and are experiencing a MISHAP!<BR><BR><BR><BR>ISN'T THAT EASIER (plainer-clearer) THAN WHAT I HAD BEFORE!<BR><BR><BR>***Don't forget the E-DIE!!!!<BR><BR>"6" on the E-Die means all even number dice from the throw are doubled.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; (Play Speed-Tip:&nbsp; Count all even numbered dice, double that<BR>amount, then add the odd numbered dice.)<BR><BR>"1" on the E-Die means all odd numbered dice are removed from the throw.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; (Play Speed-Tip:&nbsp; Don't waste time with subtraction!&nbsp; Simply<BR>remove all odd dice from the throw, then count the evens normally.)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 23:50:09 -0600<BR>From: "Brandon Cope" &lt;copeab@mail.elc.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Brian Daley (Re: Alan Dean Foster)<BR><BR>From: "Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;On 18 Dec 2000, at 3:16, Brandon Cope wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Just when were they hearing this about Foster?<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; I ask because he is the original SW fic author. He is widely considered to <BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;be George Lucas' ghostwriter for the novel version of the first Star Wars, and<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;he was the first to publish a SW novel outside of the movie canon. The only<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;other author who approaches his seniority in SW fic is DEAD (sadly, because he<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;was also a wonderful Travelleresque author). <BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Once again, I am the last person to find out about someome passing on ... only 4<BR>&gt;&gt; years late this time ...<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; I've got seven of his novels (Tapestry of Magic, the Han Solo trilogy and the<BR>&gt;&gt; Floyt/Fitzhugh trilogy). Damn, I liked his writing.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I'm missing the second of the Floyt/Fitzhugh trilogy, darn it.<BR><BR>It was very good ;)<BR><BR>(I forgot; I also have both the Coramonde books).<BR><BR>Brandon<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 00:23:26 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>On 12/18/00 at 01:26 AM,&nbsp; Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt; said:<BR><BR><BR>&gt;At 10:52 PM -0700 12/17/00, Legate Legion wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; True the French helped us out in the Revolution, but after the<BR>&gt;&gt;Revolution they wanted a tribute from us, spawning the famous American<BR>&gt;&gt;saying, "Millions for Defense, but not a penny in Tribute".<BR><BR>&gt;Oh... I thought that had something to do with public funding of <BR>&gt;education and arts.<BR><BR>It was Jefferson that said it, I think, and it was about the Barbary<BR>Pirates IIRC.&nbsp; If I'm right, then I suspect Jefferson was more<BR>concerned with publicly funding the purchase of most of the<BR>country...from the French!&nbsp; &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3423<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD>12/19/00 2:05:49 AM Pacific Standard Time</TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, December 19 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3424<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people <BR>unsubscribe<BR>RE: Antigua Design<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: ...the Serious Business of Despising Each Other in General<BR>fwd: Finnish and American RPGs<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3417<BR>Filkin' Tom Waits<BR>Filkin' Tom Waits<BR>Dune "Traveller-esque" Question<BR>Re: Dune "Traveller-esque" Question<BR>Re: Antigua Design<BR>RE: Damn, it's a big country! (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: Skill Inflation (was Re: (1) KB3 Traveller System (Playtest))<BR>RE: Antigua Design<BR>KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR>Re: H&amp;E The End<BR>Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR>Re: Odd weapons question<BR>RE: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising Each O ther in General<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:27:20 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people <BR><BR>&gt;From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR>...<BR>&gt;Slight shift of conversation:&nbsp; I've been skimming around the Trav <BR>&gt;webring, and somewhere or another, was greatly gratified to see *two* <BR>&gt;armed lander designs (albeit for GURPS) in honor of Pvt. Hudson.&nbsp; The <BR>&gt;designer, whoever it was, gets a round of applause from this corner.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Actually, IIRC those are named for Kommissar Hudson, who as one of<BR>the more demented miniatures war-gamers in the Traveller Socialist <BR>Conspiracy suggested the idea one afternoon at the art gallery cafe.<BR><BR>&nbsp; After all, the energy from braking your assault lander has to go<BR>_somewhere_, and it's not as if your suppressive "fire" has to be <BR>aimed if only there's _enough_ of it... :&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 19:27:13 +1300<BR>From: "Dragon" &lt;dragon@etherealdragon.co.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: unsubscribe<BR><BR>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.<BR><BR>- ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01C069F1.B067C780<BR>Content-Type: text/plain;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable<BR><BR>unsubscribe dragon@etherealdragon.co.nz<BR><BR>- ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01C069F1.B067C780<BR>Content-Type: text/html;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable<BR><BR>&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"&gt;<BR>&lt;HEAD&gt;<BR>&lt;META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =<BR>charset=3Diso-8859-1"&gt;<BR>&lt;META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR&gt;<BR>&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;<BR>&lt;/HEAD&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3>unsubscribe=20<BR>dragon@etherealdragon.co.nz</FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR><BR>- ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01C069F1.B067C780--<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:33:10 -0800<BR>From: "tsykoduk" &lt;tsykoduk@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Antigua Design<BR><BR>Pinkerdoo has several GTL:9 and lower starships and vehicles posted at this<BR>time (and more on the way)...<BR><BR>(http://members.home.com/pinkerdoo)<BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of TOCoons@cs.com<BR>Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 8:14 PM<BR>To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Antigua Design<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I'm afraid I'm not much of a character,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I have glasses and a full head of hair but no beard, and I don't know<BR>anybody in my area who actively plays Traveller, but I like designing MTU.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I keep most of my opinions on political, religious, and sexual topics<BR>well off the list.&nbsp; I have no gift for killing keyboards,&nbsp; and I NEVER drink<BR>and TML.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I have no particular taste or dislike in game systems: in building MTU I<BR>use material from TNE; Path of Tears; World Tamer's Handbook; FF&amp;S2; Pocket<BR>Empires; Imperial Squadrons, GT: First In; Far Trader; and Starports, and I<BR>have several others to borrow from as it becomes appropriate.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; MTU is some 1200 years in the distant past of most TUs in the unexplored<BR>heart of the empire, hasn't encountered the Vargr, K'Kree, Hivers, Soloman,<BR>Aslan, Darrians or Sword Worlds, or Zhodani, and won't for some time yet,<BR>and<BR>5FW and Virus are both in the far distant future,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I don't like reactionless thrusters,&nbsp; near-C rocks,&nbsp; or drop tanks<BR>either, but MTU does have pirates :-P<BR><BR>Now that that's out of the way, does anyone have low-tech designs (TL 9-11)<BR>for use in the Nth Interstellar war, M:0, or&nbsp; TNE periods, or for pocket<BR>empires? What about small craft and planetary vehicles? Does anyone want<BR>them? Is there a possible niche for Antigua Design (Low-tech, low-cost<BR>transportation designs for the discerning customer)?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 00:41:12 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>On 12/18/00 at 03:15 PM,&nbsp; shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;No, they steal *that* from Oregon. :-)<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Hey!&nbsp; We pay for ever watt!&nbsp; (I'm looking at our PG&amp;E [Pacific Graft and<BR>&gt;&gt; Extortion] bill as i write..)<BR><BR>&gt;Maybe. The question is, do they pay what it's worth?<BR><BR>&gt;Also, hate to tell you this, but if we get a bad cold snap up here<BR>&gt;we *won't* be able to send you guys "extra" power this year. <BR><BR>Won't *that* be fun!&nbsp; You think they'll "come after it" like they did when they were threatened with water shortages?<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:52:50 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: ...the Serious Business of Despising Each Other in General<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Andrew Long" &lt;dyrnwynn@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising Each<BR>Other in <BR>...<BR>&gt;You know, I just started reading this and I thought, 'now that sounds<BR>&gt;familiar...' Then I realised that you could substitute 'Britain' for<BR>&gt;'France', and 'London' for 'Paris' (You'd have problems about the 'learning<BR>&gt;English', though..)<BR><BR>&nbsp; Or 'Canada' and 'Toronto' (which, their delusions to the contrary, _isn't_<BR>the national capital...)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 23:43:22 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: fwd: Finnish and American RPGs<BR><BR>...<BR>&gt;(Yes, I know, Columbia Games is Canadian and not American, I apologise.)<BR><BR>&nbsp; Nice try - but in their recent _Pacific Victory_ they gave the little<BR>company icon in Blaine the US ID colour :&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;I know that Columbia Games is planning to publish a new version of<BR>&gt;their old scifi RPG, High Colonies. I have no knowledge of dates or almost<BR>&gt;anything else, just that it probably _won't_ use the D20 system, and it<BR>&gt;will most likely be worth checking out.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Ooh, now that would be neat! ISTR skimming the first (?) version,<BR>and being fairly impressed. Kinda like GURPS: Terradyne meets<BR>Aftermath! :&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 01:48:51 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3417<BR><BR>On 12/18/00 at 07:12 PM,&nbsp; GDWGAMES@aol.com said:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Of course, if you have ever watched<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; Eisenstein's Alexander Nevsky, your take on the Teutonic Knights might be a<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; bit jaundiced...<BR><BR>&gt;Those are the guys in the white robes with the buckets over their<BR>&gt;heads?<BR><BR>LOL!&nbsp; And the red target on their chests. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>I've only seen clips of "Alexander Nevsky" on public TV. It struck me as the Russian version of "Birth of a Nation"...but what do I know. I prefer light-hearted comedies and rousing adventures where the good guys win. Serious I get on the TML.<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 02:43:38 -0500<BR>From: Glenn Grant &lt;neo@total.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Filkin' Tom Waits<BR><BR>Well it ain't as sharply-pointed as Kenji's reworkings of great punk <BR>anthems of yore, but here's the result of my latest bouts of <BR>insomnia...<BR><BR>(Oi! Kenj, you didn't see my XTC and Talking Heads filks, did you? <BR>I'll send 'em off-list.&nbsp; I think you saw the Ramones take, yes?)<BR><BR><BR>RHYLANOR<BR>(To the tune of "Singapore",<BR>by Tom Waits, from Rain Dogs)<BR><BR>We jump tonight for Rhylanor<BR>We're all as mad as Shriekers here<BR>I've fallen for a robot whore<BR>Took off in an escape pod<BR>Tramped along the Spinward Main<BR>Worked the mines of Lewis<BR>I sailed a planet without land<BR>Dallied with a girl from Vland<BR>You must say goodbye to me<BR><BR>We jump tonight for Rhylanor<BR>Don't fall asleep 'til you're ashore<BR>Dim the lights and prime the drive<BR>Pray we get back home alive<BR>Let plasma torch and cutlass choose<BR>While drinking too much Exex booze<BR>Through the Highport<BR>Back from Hell<BR>When you hear that boarding bell<BR>You must say goodbye to me<BR><BR>Fill 'er up with hydrazine<BR>Stare for days at sensor screens<BR>From now on crystal-iron is our home<BR>So launch away, sophs...<BR><BR>We jump tonight for Rhylanor<BR>Show your papers at the door<BR>Say you've never been near Cronor<BR>This whole world's made of iron ore<BR>Even Customs turns to steam<BR>They all become Vinorian dreams<BR>Fill your hold up with rare earths<BR>Get yourself a Credit's worth<BR>Away sophs, away sophs, launch away<BR><BR>The Captain is a one-armed Droyne<BR>He's setting course by throwing coyns<BR>On the world of the blind, the prosthetic-eyed are shunned<BR>So take this gun...<BR><BR>[Repeat first verse]<BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Glenn Grant&nbsp; &lt;neo@total.net&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; "How come if we can send a man to the Moon,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; we can't send a man to the Moon anymore?"<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; --Cmdr Rick, _Prisoners of Gravity_<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 02:43:38 -0500<BR>From: Glenn Grant &lt;neo@total.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Filkin' Tom Waits<BR><BR>Well it ain't as sharply-pointed as Kenji's reworkings of great punk <BR>anthems of yore, but here's the result of my latest bouts of <BR>insomnia...<BR><BR>(Oi! Kenj, you didn't see my XTC and Talking Heads filks, did you? <BR>I'll send 'em off-list.&nbsp; I think you saw the Ramones take, yes?)<BR><BR><BR>RHYLANOR<BR>(To the tune of "Singapore",<BR>by Tom Waits, from Rain Dogs)<BR><BR>We jump tonight for Rhylanor<BR>We're all as mad as Shriekers here<BR>I've fallen for a robot whore<BR>Took off in an escape pod<BR>Tramped along the Spinward Main<BR>Worked the mines of Lewis<BR>I sailed a planet without land<BR>Dallied with a girl from Vland<BR>You must say goodbye to me<BR><BR>We jump tonight for Rhylanor<BR>Don't fall asleep 'til you're ashore<BR>Dim the lights and prime the drive<BR>Pray we get back home alive<BR>Let plasma torch and cutlass choose<BR>While drinking too much Exex booze<BR>Through the Highport<BR>Back from Hell<BR>When you hear that boarding bell<BR>You must say goodbye to me<BR><BR>Fill 'er up with hydrazine<BR>Stare for days at sensor screens<BR>From now on crystal-iron is our home<BR>So launch away, sophs...<BR><BR>We jump tonight for Rhylanor<BR>Show your papers at the door<BR>Say you've never been near Cronor<BR>This whole world's made of iron ore<BR>Even Customs turns to steam<BR>They all become Vinorian dreams<BR>Fill your hold up with rare earths<BR>Get yourself a Credit's worth<BR>Away sophs, away sophs, launch away<BR><BR>The Captain is a one-armed Droyne<BR>He's setting course by throwing coyns<BR>On the world of the blind, the prosthetic-eyed are shunned<BR>So take this gun...<BR><BR>[Repeat first verse]<BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Glenn Grant&nbsp; &lt;neo@total.net&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; "How come if we can send a man to the Moon,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; we can't send a man to the Moon anymore?"<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; --Cmdr Rick, _Prisoners of Gravity_<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 01:51:05 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Dune "Traveller-esque" Question<BR><BR>Here's a question for you DUNE aficionados out there.&nbsp; Although not<BR>specfically, this question is "Traveller-esque" in nature (it's the kind<BR>of thing a Traveller player thinks about).<BR><BR>My question is this...<BR><BR>If the Butlerian Jihan came along, and computers and AI technology<BR>wasn't used anymore--how did the discovery of Melange on Arrakis ever<BR>get off planet?<BR><BR>If they didn't have ships anymore with those huge computers required to<BR>navigate Foldspace and the drives--there would be no interstellar<BR>travel--Melange could have never made it to another planet (because the<BR>Spacing Guild sure wasn't on Arrakis to begin with).<BR><BR>Hmmm....<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 00:22:37 -0800<BR>From: Gordon Horne &lt;gordon.horne@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Dune "Traveller-esque" Question<BR><BR>&gt;[snip]If the Butlerian Jihan came along, and computers and AI technology<BR>&gt;wasn't used anymore--how did the discovery of Melange on Arrakis ever<BR>&gt;get off planet?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;If they didn't have ships anymore with those huge computers required to<BR>&gt;navigate Foldspace and the drives--there would be no interstellar<BR>&gt;travel--Melange could have never made it to another planet (because the<BR>&gt;Spacing Guild sure wasn't on Arrakis to begin with).<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>I don't know the official answer, but it seems to me that since it is <BR>self-evident spice demands a high price of those who use it, <BR>especially those who use it for the purposes the Guild navigators do, <BR>it seems likely that it was known before the Jihad but not used <BR>except by the Fremen. Once the computers and AIs were gone the Guild <BR>had two choices - give up everything or addict themselves to spice.<BR><BR>TTFN<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; g<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 21:28:23 +1300<BR>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Antigua Design<BR><BR>On 18 Dec 00, at 23:14, TOCoons@cs.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Now that that's out of the way, does anyone have low-tech designs (TL 9-11)<BR>&gt; for use in the Nth Interstellar war, M:0, or&nbsp; TNE periods, or for pocket<BR><BR>My Prometheus Rising site has a number of designs for the IW period<BR><BR>http://www.downport.com/amv/promrise/<BR><BR>&gt; empires? What about small craft and planetary vehicles? Does anyone want them?<BR>&gt; Is there a possible niche for Antigua Design (Low-tech, low-cost<BR>&gt; transportation designs for the discerning customer)? <BR><BR>Always<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:27:52 -0000<BR>From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Damn, it's a big country! (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson<BR>Sent: Monday, 18 December 2000 11:40 PM<BR>To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Re: Damn, it's a big country! (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground<BR>Forces))<BR><BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Australia isn't just a country, it is a continent!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Not entirely accurate as India is sitting on the same continental plate.<BR><BR>I don't think so. India is pretty much its own plate. Australia's plate<BR>ends up around New Guinea, where the plate collision created all those<BR>mountains.<BR><BR>There are *dozens* of plates...<BR><BR>Yes there are quite a lot of plates, does not look like dozens though, but<BR>Australia and India are both on a plate called the Indian-Australian Plate.<BR>New Guinea is split between this plate and the Philippine Plate.<BR>Australia will reach the equator in about 60 million years. Being pivoted by<BR>the Indian half of the plate which is pinned by the Eurasion plate.<BR><BR>There is a reasonable map of the plates in the back of&nbsp; the book "Earth" by<BR>Frank Press and Raymond Siever (4th Edition) ISBN 0-7167-1776-X<BR><BR>Antony<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 02:38:27 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Skill Inflation (was Re: (1) KB3 Traveller System (Playtest))<BR><BR>On 12/18/00 at 03:38 PM,&nbsp; "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" &lt;sdaniels@playnet.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;Eris Reddoch wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; The problem really isn't the number of skills, it's the number of levels<BR>&gt;&gt; in a skill. For CT/MT (DGP or BITS) task systems to work you can't have<BR>&gt;&gt; the number of levels routinely getting up to 7+, it makes hard tasks too<BR>&gt;&gt; easy.&nbsp; The INT+EDU skill level limit really comes into play in later CT<BR>&gt;&gt; and MT.<BR><BR>&gt;Was it you or someone else that broadened that idea into the<BR>&gt;physical arena?&nbsp; Str + Dex for physical skills, Int + Edu for<BR>&gt;intellectual ones, Soc + Cha for social ones?&nbsp; I recall seeing<BR>&gt;something like that posted not too long ago.<BR><BR>Yes, I have made such a suggestion, and I'm not the only one.&nbsp; &lt;g&gt;<BR>The idea of linking the Stats to skills in this manner, either in<BR>groups or individually has been suggested several times.&nbsp; AFAIK, it<BR>hasn't gotten further than mear suggestion.<BR><BR>&gt;Just thinking out loud here, without adding Cha into the UPP, I<BR>&gt;think I like (Str + Dex + End)/2 as maximum levels of physical<BR>&gt;skills, and (Int + Edu + Soc)/2 as max for mental and social.&nbsp; For<BR>&gt;Joe Average, that would be 10 and 10. Dividing by 3 would give 7<BR>&gt;and 7, which is also the total skill levels from adding Int and<BR>&gt;Edu.<BR><BR>I'd *rather* not divide by 2 if I could avoid it.&nbsp; I don't see End<BR>providing much help in *learning* a skill, so how about Str + Dex,<BR>(avg 14) for physical and Int + Edu (avg 14) for mental skills<BR>giving an average total of 28 skill levels.&nbsp; If we give about 1<BR>level per year (that has always seems fairly reasonable to me), an<BR>average character would be "maxing" out in their early 40's, and<BR>that fits too!&nbsp; Of course, this leaves End and Soc out of the skills<BR>derby...hum, is that a bad thing?<BR><BR>&gt;And let the stat work as a skill level cap.&nbsp; Say half.&nbsp; So Joe<BR>&gt;Average could have 10 skill levels total in mental, but the maximum<BR>&gt;level of any *one* skill would be 3 or 4 (depending on rounding<BR>&gt;rules).&nbsp; If the cap was 1/3rd stat, then Joe would have a max of<BR>&gt;level 2 in any skill.<BR><BR>That's probably a good idea, but I'd rather not have a divisor.&nbsp; I<BR>don't think leaving the skills uncapped would be too unbalancing,<BR>might need testing.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; I think Traveller works best when PC's only have a few skills<BR>&gt;&gt; listed and the levels stay in the 1=Competent to 4=Expert range.<BR>&gt;&gt; I think, for this to happen skills need to be very broad.<BR><BR>&gt;Me like broad skills.&nbsp; Particularly for weapons.<BR>&gt;It always seemed like a pain to get a skill like Pistol on a roll,<BR>&gt;when I already have Rifle-3 (which gives<BR>&gt;Pistol-2 already).&nbsp; I sort of prefer Guns-X (with a<BR>&gt;+1 or something if it's a preferred weapon).<BR><BR>Yep, but me not quite that broad.&nbsp; &lt;g&gt; I'd have Pistol and Rifle as the<BR>two gun skills.&nbsp; Hand fired guns and shoulder fired guns are enough<BR>different to require separate skills.&nbsp; OTOH, I don't see a need for<BR>3 kinds of pistol and 4 skills for long guns.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; It also doesn't hurt to have a<BR>&gt;&gt; number of JOAT skills...hum, I just had an idea!<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; What do you think of that?<BR><BR>&gt;Love it!<BR><BR>&gt;Perhaps this idea can be folded into Chargen as well?<BR>&gt;For example:&nbsp; Army Basic Training: Brawling-0, Gun-0, Vehicle-0).<BR>&gt;Merchant Training (Steward-0, Streetwise-0, Bribery-0) Things like<BR>&gt;that?<BR><BR>That's exactly what I had in mind!&nbsp; <BR><BR>I'm thinking about 4 year terms with 1 free choice and 3 rolls for<BR>skills. Here's the basic idea using Navy as an example:<BR><BR>Term 1 (4 years)<BR>&nbsp; Basic Training<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Space Navy Basic Training: Vacc Suit-0, ZG Cbt-0, Ship's Boat-0<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Roll on Personal Development Table<BR>&nbsp; Branch Training<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Engineering Branch:&nbsp; Engineering-0, Mechanical-0, Electronic-0,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; [Gravitic-0]<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Flight Branch: Pilot-0, Navigation-0, Commo-0, [Sensors-0]<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Line/Crew Branch: Electronic-0, Computer-0, Liasion-0, Steward-0<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Gunnery Branch: Gunnery-0, Fwd Obsv-0, Commo-0, Gun Cbt-0<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Medical Branch: Medical-0, Computer-0, Admin-0, Electronic-0<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Roll on Branch Skills Table<BR>&nbsp; Navy Life<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Combat Training: Blade Cbt-0, Gun Cbt-0<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Roll on Navy Life Table<BR>&nbsp; Choose one skill<BR>&nbsp; Check for Commission/Promotion<BR>&nbsp; Check for re-enlistment<BR>&nbsp; <BR>Term 2 through N (4 years each)&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp; Roll for Mission<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Roll for "events" (injuries, awards, medals, patrons/enemies,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; demotions, etc)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Roll for skill on Mission Table<BR>&nbsp; Branch <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Roll for skill on Branch Table<BR>&nbsp; Navy Life<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Roll for skill on Navy Life Table<BR>&nbsp; Choose one skill<BR>&nbsp; Check for Commission/Promotion<BR>&nbsp; Check for re-enlistment&nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>&nbsp; Check for aging effects<BR>&nbsp; <BR>Mustering Out Benefits<BR>&nbsp; . . .&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>How does that look?<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:34:13 -0000<BR>From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Antigua Design<BR><BR>On my site I have quite a lot of TL7 and up designs, done with both<BR>MegaTraveller and FFS1. You can find them through<BR><BR>www.users.bigpond.com/Skaran<BR><BR>My Star Kingdom of Swan has ship and equipment designs done with FFS1 at<BR>tech levels mostly 9-11.<BR><BR>The Megatraveller section is more varied.<BR><BR>While in my Pocket Empires section there are a few more FFS1 designs<BR>including my interpretations of some standard Solomani and Imperial designs.<BR><BR>Antony<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 02:45:01 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR><BR>Ken, maybe I missed it, but...<BR><BR>Suppose Piter is trying to force a stuck hatch open. There's no real skill involved here, it's just brute force. Piter has a Str of 8 and the Ref decides that forcing the hatch is a Difficult task.&nbsp; How does KB3 handle this?<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 01:35:24 -0800<BR>From: "Kelly St.Clair" &lt;kellys@efn.org&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: H&amp;E The End<BR><BR>Stuart:<BR><BR>It sounds like you've run afoul of the infamous TML Black Hole of <BR>Quality(tm), where anything that is truly good and without flaw is not <BR>commented on or picked over, but simply and silently sucked away onto <BR>hundreds of hard drives for future use, accepted as the de facto standard.<BR><BR>More succinctly:&nbsp; you created a tool which was so good, everyone just used <BR>it with no complaints.<BR><BR>I'm as guilty of this as anyone, but I have excuses (sort of).&nbsp; My last <BR>computer was barely fast enough to generate a SYSTEM in an hour, and as I'm <BR>not currently or planning to do anything Traveller-related, I've not <BR>bothered/had the need to check it out on this new one.<BR><BR>Sorry that the (lack of) response has disillusioned you, but please don't <BR>think that your work wasn't appreciated.&nbsp; Maybe not OUT LOUD, but...<BR><BR>- --------------<BR>Kelly St.Clair&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; "Homines est! Dici omnes! Soylens viridis HOMINES EST!"<BR>kellys@efn.org<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 09:48:12 -0000<BR>From: "Ben Aaronovitch" &lt;bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR><BR>The UK is now the second largest market for 'Bollywood' but the US is a<BR>significant market as well.<BR><BR>Ben<BR><BR>'Let's be honest here - you paid for the women.'<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Bill Murrey - Scrooged<BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: Douglas E. Berry &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 8:14 AM<BR>Subject: Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR><BR><BR>&gt; At 09:03 PM 12/17/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Then I would like the hear a thank you for all of the time us arrogant<BR>&gt; &gt;Americans went to some country that didn't care about us &amp; we saved their<BR>&gt; &gt;lives.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; legate, chill out.&nbsp; Nothing is older than that "but we saved you!" line.<BR>&gt; We didn't save any Scandanavian counties (unless y'all still count<BR>&gt; Denmark), and in fact fought alongside and under&nbsp; the nations we went to save.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Then why do we export our culture, not because we have to, but because<BR>&gt; &gt;people want to see it.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I see.&nbsp; So such things as Monty Python, Pokemon, and Anime are home grown?<BR>&gt; Everybody exports pieces of their culture.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Do you know that the largest movie industry in the world is in India?<BR>&gt; Makes Hollywood look like a midget.&nbsp; Their films are exported all over<BR>&gt; central asia.&nbsp; But since they rarely get seen ion the US, most of us don't<BR>&gt; know anything about them.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;Even a leftist atheist like me?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Only if you live in the US.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; *boggle*&nbsp; Riigghtt.. LL, you *really* need to read up on places like Sweden.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>&gt; http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 21:02:00 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Odd weapons question<BR><BR>John Groth wrote:<BR>[...Converging mulitple laser beams...]<BR>&gt; Not trivial.&nbsp; Calculating where one laser should point to have a decent<BR>&gt; chance of hitting an enemy ship _somewhere_ is far simpler than<BR>&gt; calculating where multiple lasers should point to hit an enemy ship<BR>&gt; _simultaneously at the exact same point_.<BR><BR>Not at all, the hard part is already done.&nbsp; i.e. knowing where the<BR>enemy ship will be so you can hit it at all.&nbsp; Simultaneous is easy --<BR>fire all lasers at once.&nbsp; Converging to the same point is easier than<BR>tracking and predicting the motion of a ship with information hundreds<BR>or thousands of milliseconds old.<BR><BR>If the target would have moved enough that 100 ns makes you miss the<BR>point you were aiming for, the 1 000 000 000 ns travel time at one<BR>light-second is going to ensure that you miss the whole ship 99.99% of<BR>the time and you might as well give up.<BR><BR>The fact that the enemy is at long distance makes it easier (given<BR>that you can hit at all), since their radial motion becomes irrelevant<BR>for converging the beams since they are for all practical purposes<BR>parallel at the target.<BR><BR>Finally, note that in order to hit a 100 m target at 300 000 000 m at<BR>all, the lasers must already have extremely good stabilisation,<BR>tracking, and timing ability.&nbsp; If you can provide any figures that<BR>allow hitting a general fast-moving ship target at a light second<BR>without being stable enough to converge the beams to within their<BR>dispersion diameter, I'd be very surprised indeed.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:02:02 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising Each O ther in General<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Regarding the French:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The farther away you get from Paris, the better French <BR>&gt; people are.<BR>&gt; When<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &lt; MAJOR SNIP&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; les Francaise<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; You know, I just started reading this and I thought, 'now that sounds<BR>&gt; familiar...' Then I realised that you could substitute 'Britain' for<BR>&gt; 'France', and 'London' for 'Paris' (You'd have problems about <BR>&gt; the 'learning<BR>&gt; English', though..)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; And I AM British (and a neut^h^h^haturalised Australian, too)<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>Ben Aaronovitch might not agree :)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3424<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3425</B></TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, December 19 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3425<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>RE: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising Each O ther in General<BR>RE: Dune "Traveller-esque" Question<BR>Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising Each Other in General<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: Damn, it's a big country!<BR>Re: Damn, it's a big country!<BR>Re: Odd weapons question<BR>Re: Odd weapons question<BR>Re: Seas of LOX<BR>Re: Seas of LOX<BR>Re: Seas of LOX<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:21:03 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising Each O ther in General<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; Their <BR>&gt; politicians are<BR>&gt; treacherous, dirtbag, America-hating bastards who make deals with our<BR>&gt; enemies and sell latest technology weapons to them, but that's not the<BR>&gt; people's fault, and the more time you spend around the <BR>&gt; non-Parisians, the<BR>&gt; more you will see the real people who can actually be good <BR>&gt; friends.&nbsp; <BR><BR>As I come from a country which is one of the biggest arms exporters in the<BR>world, I shall pass no comment on the activities of the French.<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Regarding American culture:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; We have significant cultural advantages.&nbsp; We never had <BR>&gt; feudalism, so our<BR>&gt; the idea of upward mobility has always been present in our minds.&nbsp; The<BR>&gt; notion of hereditary nobility never caught on, so we escaped <BR>&gt; its stifling<BR>&gt; influence. <BR><BR>It's not all that bad. One might argue that the US is starting to develop an<BR>aristocracy of its own, in the form of political families such as the Bushs<BR>and the Kennedys. While it's true that in theory that some kid from the<BR>projects can rise to become president, it strikes me as rather unlikely. In<BR>the UK the monarchy is purely constituational and the real power lies in<BR>parliament. Thats why the descisions about how the country is run are made<BR>by parliament, not by the monarch.<BR><BR>Many Europeans have come to this country to <BR>&gt; escape those two<BR>&gt; influences.&nbsp; We have the idea of democracy, and believe that <BR>&gt; the government<BR>&gt; should be legally limited in what it can do to peoples' <BR>&gt; lives.&nbsp; We believe<BR>&gt; in rule of law, rather than of leaders, which is why the <BR>&gt; military continued<BR>&gt; to obey the most despised commander in chief in American history. <BR><BR>Tricky Dicky, right?<BR><BR>The<BR>&gt; military is loyal to the president not as a person but as an <BR>&gt; institution.<BR>&gt; This has kept our country stable.&nbsp; Look at this last <BR>&gt; election.&nbsp; The courts<BR>&gt; decided, not a war of succession. <BR><BR>Not to nit-pick, but I believe the actual descision made by the Floridan<BR>courts was whether or not the design of part of the voting devices (not<BR>machines, devices :)&nbsp; ) might have caused misregistration or non<BR>registration of votes by the devices...and whether or not this would warrent<BR>a manual recount of the votes in the affected counties which used the<BR>suspect styluses (styli? stylices? whatever). The important point is that<BR>presidencial succession was not determined by the courts, the courts were<BR>arbitrating a dispute in the function of the vouting devices. Important<BR>distinction.<BR><BR>Our culture protects us <BR>&gt; from a military<BR>&gt; dictatorship.&nbsp; Our servicemen and women would never go along with it,<BR>&gt; because of our cultural belief in freedom and democracy.&nbsp; The greatest<BR>&gt; commandment of American culture is Do Your Own Thing.&nbsp; Make <BR>&gt; your money, work<BR>&gt; for your own betterment, do whatever.&nbsp; These are our <BR>&gt; strengths, which have<BR>&gt; served us well, and freed us from a lot of the problems <BR>&gt; suffered from the<BR>&gt; rest of the world.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Regarding Europeans in general:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; A lot of the time Europeans are snobs.&nbsp; Its much easier <BR>&gt; to understand<BR>&gt; when you realize that they treat each other that way too.&nbsp; <BR>&gt; Their emotions<BR>&gt; are slightly different from ours. Actions which would cause <BR>&gt; us to feel a<BR>&gt; certain way don't cause the same feeling in them.&nbsp; Things we think are<BR>&gt; inconsequential cause them to have more feelings.&nbsp; The frame <BR>&gt; of reference<BR>&gt; posting is relevant here.&nbsp; It would take a while of living <BR>&gt; with them to<BR>&gt; figure their particular way of thinking.&nbsp; To us it seems that <BR>&gt; they don't<BR>&gt; make any sense and we don't understand why they do things.&nbsp; <BR>&gt; Case in point:<BR>&gt; someone has a French girlfriend who screws ten guys while <BR>&gt; he's away.&nbsp; He<BR>&gt; finds out and considers it a betrayal of their relationship, while she<BR>&gt; considers it a little fun while the man she really cares <BR>&gt; about couldn't be<BR>&gt; with her.&nbsp; He can't understand why she did it, and she can't <BR>&gt; understand why<BR>&gt; he thinks its a big deal.<BR><BR>I can't figure that either. Maybe it's just her.<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Regarding American culture as perceived by the rest of the world:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; HOLLYWOOD IS BULLSHIT.&nbsp; TV AND MOVIES ARE BULLSHIT.&nbsp; DO NOT <BR>&gt; BELIEVE WHAT YOU<BR>&gt; SEE ON TV.&nbsp; EVERYONE IN THE U.S.A. KNOWS THAT WHATEVER COMES <BR>&gt; OUT OF THE<BR>&gt; MEDIA IS A STEAMING CROCK OF STINKING BULLSHIT AND LIES. Except ESPN.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Thank you, and goodnight.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 23:48:50 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Dune "Traveller-esque" Question<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden wrote :<BR>&gt; Here's a question for you DUNE aficionados out there.&nbsp; Although not<BR>&gt; specfically, this question is "Traveller-esque" in nature (it's the kind<BR>&gt; of thing a Traveller player thinks about).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; My question is this...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; If the Butlerian Jihan came along, and computers and AI technology<BR>&gt; wasn't used anymore--how did the discovery of Melange on Arrakis ever<BR>&gt; get off planet?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; If they didn't have ships anymore with those huge computers required to<BR>&gt; navigate Foldspace and the drives--there would be no interstellar<BR>&gt; travel--<BR><BR>This is not entirely true. It was _possible_ to navigate Foldspace without<BR>huge computers, it was just unreliable, and there was no communication<BR>between ships in transit.<BR><BR>Those who started the Guild were escapees of the beginning of the Jihad on<BR>Komos (later known as Ix), so they arrived with ships containing their own<BR>computers, which were capable of limited navigation _without_ CenTrans and<BR>similar systems. CenTrans was only required for efficient management of a<BR>large shipping fleet, with reliable timetables, and the like. Individual<BR>ships could still make it between the stars, but they couldn't be<BR>co-ordinated, and their arrival times couldn't be accurately predicted, and<BR>they might not make it all, and travke was limited to "close" systems.<BR><BR>Just a point that you may have missed, Dune had FTL communication via<BR>"Holtzman Waves". Ships in Foldspace would drop out of Foldspace and recieve<BR>news and course corrections from CenTrans at pre-determined times and<BR>locations.<BR><BR>So before Holtzmann perfected FTL communication, the Dune universe was like<BR>Traveller, with individual merchants and trade cartels ineffciently<BR>competing with each other, even warring with each other, and no<BR>communication with&nbsp; "home base" unless they ran into another ship of the<BR>same combine.&nbsp; There was no real "Imperium" to organize the equivalent of<BR>X-boat links, except in limited and localized ways.<BR><BR>&gt; Melange could have never made it to another planet (because the<BR>&gt; Spacing Guild sure wasn't on Arrakis to begin with).<BR><BR>This is actually one of the "Big Questions" in Dune history.<BR><BR>There are several theories, the most promising being that the Guild was<BR>_told_ about the prescient properties of spice by the Bene Gesserit, though<BR>this has the problem of requiring that the BG actuallly knew about the<BR>prescient properties of spice at that stage, which very few people did.<BR><BR>Once they knew about it wasn't difficult to outfit a ship and go and get<BR>some, it was just time-consuming and unreliable.<BR><BR>While I have no direct references to support this, I wouldn't be surprised<BR>if they started the "Guild" in the first place to hide the fact they were<BR>still using computers, and in fact started the stories that they were<BR>navigating presciently before they ever got any spice !<BR><BR>It's also intersting to note that in Dune's history there was a "Silicon<BR>Plague" many years before the Jihad that killed all the computers and<BR>generated a dark age, until they developed resistant computers. The period<BR>after this was referred to as the "Little Dark Age"<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 14:40:04 +0400<BR>From: Andrew Long &lt;andylong@emirates.net.ae&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising Each Other in General<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>&gt; Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:02:02 -0000<BR>&gt; From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising Each O<BR>ther in General<BR>&gt;<BR>&lt;Snip&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; And I AM British (and a neut^h^h^haturalised Australian, too)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Ben Aaronovitch might not agree :)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Dean<BR>&gt;<BR>What can I say? I come from the provinces (Somerset, to be precise.) Every<BR>time I go up to Town, I'm ready to leave again after about an hour. It's<BR>worse now that I don't know any FLGS' to go to :-(<BR><BR>Andy<BR>========================================<BR>Andy Long&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Dyrnwynn@HotMail.com<BR>========================================<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 02:33:02 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; "David P. Summers" wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; At 7:28 PM +0000 12/17/00, Martin Hardgrave wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;In message &lt;v04220801b6603a1fde51@[128.102.186.102]&gt;, "David P. Summers"<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&lt;summers@alum.mit.edu&gt; writes<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &gt; This is<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &gt;similar to; rules in some European countries where the government<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &gt;collects mandatory contribution on behalf of the religions<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;ITYM "mandatory membership contributions to religious groups on behalf<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;of their voluntary members"&nbsp; HTH HAND<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; The Austrian who was describing this to me (on a train in Austria)<BR>&gt;&gt; indicated that you<BR>&gt;&gt; couldn't avoid contributions by not designating a religion.&nbsp; You<BR>&gt;&gt; had to pick something (even if it was atheism) and contribute.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Were I subject to such laws, I would have to name my religion as the<BR>&gt; Church of the SubGenius.&nbsp; After all, if I _have_ to pony up, I may as<BR>&gt; well at least get some Slack out of the deal....<BR><BR>Alas, if Austria is anything like Germany, there are religions that the<BR>State doesn't recognize as *being* religions. And that's likely to be<BR>one of them.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 02:34:52 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; I've got a semi-auto AKM from about '87 or so.&nbsp; I had it at the shoot with<BR>&gt; me, but never brought it out.&nbsp; It shoots about minute-of-barn, which is one<BR>&gt; reason I never brought it out :)<BR><BR>Well, I've got an SKS, which is why I have all that ammo. And it's<BR>reasonably accurate. I didn't bring it because I have to store it at a<BR>friend's (blanety-blank blank "no weapons" clause in the lease) and<BR>since she works Saturdays there was no practical way to get at it.<BR><BR>But I was sorta hoping for somethong full auto. :-)<BR><BR>Even so, next time things ought to work out better, and I can load up a<BR>*lot* of stripper clips. :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 02:38:39 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Yeah, AKs are not known for their accuracy.&nbsp; Save that 7.62x39, though for<BR>&gt; May.&nbsp; Recall that Paul has that M16 in 7.62.<BR><BR>Ah! Good. <BR><BR>I suppose it's too much to hope that it'll take SKS 30 round mags, or<BR>let you load the mags using the 10-round strippers?<BR><BR>BTW, what sort of mess would have ben involved in getting paperwork for<BR>an AK-47 found in the effects of someone who died and didn't have any<BR>paperwork for it?<BR><BR>Mostly hypothetical, as the person died some years back and as far as I<BR>know, it was turned in to be disposed of.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 02:42:52 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; From: Jesse Degraff &lt;jedegraf@cisco.com&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;How did Mark's twice-a-year shoot become my monthly fun shoot?&nbsp; And I live<BR>&gt;&gt;in the PRK (People's Republic of Kalifornia) where you can't have these<BR>&gt;&gt;wonderful toys!<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 4. So we can have Ditzie T-Shirts made with "The Jesse Degraff Monthly<BR>&gt; Fun Shoot" printed on then.<BR><BR>Actually, It occurs to me that we ought to have some T-shirts or even<BR>jackets done up:<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Famile Spofulam <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Heavy Weapons<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Testing Team<BR><BR>or some such. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 02:46:01 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Damn, it's a big country!<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; On Mon, 18 Dec 2000 04:57:23 -0500 (EST), "Mikko V. I. Parviainen"<BR>&gt; &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;And the US is small... What have you, four time zones? Our friendly<BR>&gt;&gt;eastern neighbour spans eleven, count them, eleven time zones.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;(Ok, Hawaii might count as fifth, I don't know.)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Six: Eastern, Central, Mountain, Pacific, Alaska, Hawaii.&nbsp; There's _two_<BR>&gt; hours difference between Alaska and Pacific; the country actually spans<BR>&gt; seven zones, with no land in one of them.<BR><BR>Nope. Alaska is only one hour off of Pacific. <BR><BR>Here's a chart I put together from info from some web sites a couple of<BR>years back. Note that I was wrong on a previous post. "Standard" time<BR>zones range from -12 to +14, not -13 to +13. <BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Standard Time&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Daylight (or Summer) Time<BR>TZUTC&nbsp;&nbsp; zone&nbsp; &nbsp; desc&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; zone&nbsp; &nbsp; desc<BR>- -----&nbsp;&nbsp; -----&nbsp;&nbsp; -------------------&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -----&nbsp;&nbsp; ---------------------<BR>- -1200&nbsp;&nbsp; PHOT&nbsp; &nbsp; Phoenix Islands Time<BR>- -1100&nbsp;&nbsp; NUT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Niue Time<BR>- -1100&nbsp;&nbsp; SST&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Samoa Time<BR>- -1100&nbsp;&nbsp; WST&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Western Samoa Time<BR>- -1000&nbsp;&nbsp; CKT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Cook Islands Time<BR>- -1000&nbsp;&nbsp; HAST&nbsp; &nbsp; Hawaii-Alaska Standard Time (Aluetian Is.)<BR>- -1000&nbsp;&nbsp; HST&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Hawaii Standard Time<BR>- -1000&nbsp;&nbsp; TAHT&nbsp; &nbsp; Tahiti Time<BR>- -1000&nbsp;&nbsp; TKT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tokelau Time<BR>- -0930&nbsp;&nbsp; MART&nbsp; &nbsp; Marquesas Time<BR>- -0900&nbsp;&nbsp; AKST&nbsp; &nbsp; Alaska Standard Time<BR>- -0900&nbsp;&nbsp; GAMT&nbsp; &nbsp; Gambier Time<BR>- -0900&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; CKST&nbsp; &nbsp; Cook Islands Summer Time<BR>- -0900&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; HADT&nbsp; &nbsp; Hawaii-Alaska Daylight Time<BR>- -0830&nbsp;&nbsp; PNT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Pitcairn Time<BR>- -0800&nbsp;&nbsp; PDT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Pacific Standard Time<BR>- -0800&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; AKDT&nbsp; &nbsp; Alaska Daylight Time<BR>- -0700&nbsp;&nbsp; MDT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Mountain Standard Time<BR>- -0700&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; PDT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Pacific Daylight Time<BR>- -0600&nbsp;&nbsp; CST&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Central Standard Time<BR>- -0600&nbsp;&nbsp; EAST&nbsp; &nbsp; Easter Island Time<BR>- -0600&nbsp;&nbsp; GALT&nbsp; &nbsp; Galapagos Time<BR>- -0600&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; MDT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Mountain Daylight Time<BR>- -0500&nbsp;&nbsp; AST&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Acre Standard Time<BR>- -0500&nbsp;&nbsp; COT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Colombia Time<BR>- -0500&nbsp;&nbsp; CST&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Cuba Standard Time<BR>- -0500&nbsp;&nbsp; ECT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Ecuador Time<BR>- -0500&nbsp;&nbsp; EST&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Eastern Standard Time<BR>- -0500&nbsp;&nbsp; PET&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Peru Time<BR>- -0500&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; CDT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Central Daylight Time<BR>- -0500&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; EASST&nbsp;&nbsp; Easter Island Summer Time<BR>- -0400&nbsp;&nbsp; AST&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Atlantic Standard Time<BR>- -0400&nbsp;&nbsp; BOT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Bolivia Time<BR>- -0400&nbsp;&nbsp; CLT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Chile Time<BR>- -0400&nbsp;&nbsp; FKT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Falkland Islands Time<BR>- -0400&nbsp;&nbsp; GYT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Guyana Time<BR>- -0400&nbsp;&nbsp; PYT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Paraguay Time<BR>- -0400&nbsp;&nbsp; VET&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Venezuala Time<BR>- -0400&nbsp;&nbsp; WST&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Western Brazil Standard Time<BR>- -0400&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ADT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Acre Daylight Time<BR>- -0400&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; CDT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Cuba Daylight Time<BR>- -0400&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; COST&nbsp; &nbsp; Colombia Summer Time<BR>- -0400&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; EDT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Eastern Daylight Time<BR>- -0400&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; PEST&nbsp; &nbsp; Peru Summer Time<BR>- -0330&nbsp;&nbsp; NST&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Newfoundland Standard Time<BR>- -0300&nbsp;&nbsp; ART&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Argentine Time<BR>- -0300&nbsp;&nbsp; EST&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Eastern Brazil Standard Time<BR>- -0300&nbsp;&nbsp; GFT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; French Guiana Time<BR>- -0300&nbsp;&nbsp; PMST&nbsp; &nbsp; Pierre &amp; Miiquelon Time<BR>- -0300&nbsp;&nbsp; SRT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Suriname Time<BR>- -0300&nbsp;&nbsp; UYT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Uruguay Time<BR>- -0300&nbsp;&nbsp; WGT?&nbsp; &nbsp; Western Greenland Time<BR>- -0300&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ADT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Atlantic Daylight Time<BR>- -0300&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; CLST&nbsp; &nbsp; Chile Summer Time<BR>- -0300&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; FKST&nbsp; &nbsp; Falkland Islands Summer Time<BR>- -0300&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; PYST&nbsp; &nbsp; Paraguay Summer Time<BR>- -0300&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; WDT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Western Brazil Daylight Time<BR>- -0230&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; NDT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Newfoundland Daylight Time<BR>- -0200&nbsp;&nbsp; FST&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Fernando de Noronha Standard Time<BR>- -0200&nbsp;&nbsp; GST&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; South Georgia Time<BR>- -0200&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ARST&nbsp; &nbsp; Argentine Summer Time<BR>- -0200&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; EDT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Eastern Brazil Daylight Time<BR>- -0200&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; PMST&nbsp; &nbsp; Pierre &amp; Miquelon Summer Time<BR>- -0200&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; UYST&nbsp; &nbsp; Uruguay Summer Time<BR>- -0200&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; WGST?&nbsp;&nbsp; Western Greenland Summer Time<BR>- -0100&nbsp;&nbsp; AZOT&nbsp; &nbsp; Azores Time<BR>- -0100&nbsp;&nbsp; CVT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Cape Verde Time<BR>- -0100&nbsp;&nbsp; EGT?&nbsp; &nbsp; Eastern Greenland Time<BR>- -0100&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; FDT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Fernando de Noronha DT<BR>0000&nbsp;&nbsp; GMT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Greenwich Mean Time<BR>0000&nbsp;&nbsp; WET&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Western Europe Time<BR>0000&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; AZOST&nbsp;&nbsp; Azores Summer Time<BR>0000&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; EGST?&nbsp;&nbsp; Eastern Greenland Summer Time<BR>0100&nbsp;&nbsp; CET&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Central Europe Time<BR>0100&nbsp;&nbsp; WAT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; West Africa Time<BR>0100&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; BST&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; British Summer Time<BR>0100&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; IST&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Irish Summer Time<BR>0100&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; WEST&nbsp; &nbsp; Western Europe Summer Time<BR>0200&nbsp;&nbsp; CAT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Central Africa Time<BR>0200&nbsp;&nbsp; EET&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Eastern Europe Time<BR>0200&nbsp;&nbsp; IST&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Israel Standard Time<BR>0200&nbsp;&nbsp; SAST&nbsp; &nbsp; South Africa Standard Time<BR>0200&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; CEST&nbsp; &nbsp; Central Europe Summer Time<BR>0300&nbsp;&nbsp; EAT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; East Africa Time<BR>0300&nbsp;&nbsp; MSK&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Moscow<BR>0300&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; EEST&nbsp; &nbsp; Eastern Europe Summer Time<BR>0300&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; IDT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Israel Daylight Time<BR>0400&nbsp;&nbsp; MUT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Mauritius Time<BR>0400&nbsp;&nbsp; RET&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Reunion Time<BR>0400&nbsp;&nbsp; SAMT&nbsp; &nbsp; Samara Time<BR>0400&nbsp;&nbsp; SCT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Seychelles Time<BR>0400&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; MSD&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Moscow<BR>0500&nbsp;&nbsp; YEKT&nbsp; &nbsp; Yekaterinburg Time<BR>0500&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; SAMST&nbsp;&nbsp; Samara Summer Time<BR>0530&nbsp;&nbsp; IST&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; India Standard Time<BR>0600&nbsp;&nbsp; MAWT&nbsp; &nbsp; Mawson Time<BR>0600&nbsp;&nbsp; NOVT&nbsp; &nbsp; Novosibirsk Time<BR>0600&nbsp;&nbsp; OMST&nbsp; &nbsp; Omskt Time<BR>0600&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; YEKST&nbsp;&nbsp; Yekaterinburg Summer Time<BR>0630&nbsp;&nbsp; CCT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Cocos Islands Time<BR>0700&nbsp;&nbsp; CXT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Christmas Island Time<BR>0700&nbsp;&nbsp; KRAT&nbsp; &nbsp; Krasnoyarsk Time<BR>0700&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; NOVST&nbsp;&nbsp; Novosibirsk Summer Time<BR>0700&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; OMSST&nbsp;&nbsp; Omsk Summer Time<BR>0800&nbsp;&nbsp; CST&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; China Standard Time<BR>0800&nbsp;&nbsp; IRKT&nbsp; &nbsp; Irkutsk Time<BR>0800&nbsp;&nbsp; WST&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Western (Aus) Standard Time<BR>0800&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; KRAST&nbsp;&nbsp; Krasnoyarsk Summer Time<BR>0900&nbsp;&nbsp; JST&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Japan Standard Time<BR>0900&nbsp;&nbsp; KST&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Korea Standard Time<BR>0900&nbsp;&nbsp; PWT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Palau Time<BR>0900&nbsp;&nbsp; YAKST&nbsp;&nbsp; Yakutsk Time<BR>0900&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; IRKST&nbsp;&nbsp; Irkutsk Summer Time<BR>0930&nbsp;&nbsp; CST&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Central (Aus) Standard Time<BR>1000&nbsp;&nbsp; DDUT&nbsp; &nbsp; Dumont-d'Urville Time<BR>1000&nbsp;&nbsp; EST&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Eastern (Aus) Standard Time<BR>1000&nbsp;&nbsp; GST&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Guam Standard Time<BR>1000&nbsp;&nbsp; MPT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; N Mariana Islands Time<BR>1000&nbsp;&nbsp; PGT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Papua New Guinea Time<BR>1000&nbsp;&nbsp; TRUT&nbsp; &nbsp; Truk Time<BR>1000&nbsp;&nbsp; VLAT&nbsp; &nbsp; Vladivostok Time<BR>1000&nbsp;&nbsp; YAPT&nbsp; &nbsp; Yap Time<BR>1000&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; YAKST&nbsp;&nbsp; Yakutsk Summer Time<BR>1030&nbsp;&nbsp; LHST?&nbsp;&nbsp; Lord Howe Standard Time<BR>1030&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; CST&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Central (Aus) Summer Time<BR>1100&nbsp;&nbsp; KOST&nbsp; &nbsp; Kosrae Time<BR>1100&nbsp;&nbsp; MAGT&nbsp; &nbsp; Magadan Time<BR>1100&nbsp;&nbsp; NCT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; New Caledonia Time<BR>1100&nbsp;&nbsp; PONT&nbsp; &nbsp; Ponape Time<BR>1100&nbsp;&nbsp; SBT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Solomon Islands Time<BR>1100&nbsp;&nbsp; VUT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Vanuatu Time<BR>1100&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; EST&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Eastern (Aus) Summer Time<BR>1100&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; VLAST&nbsp;&nbsp; Valdivostok Summer Time<BR>1130&nbsp;&nbsp; NFT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Norfolk Time<BR>1200&nbsp;&nbsp; FJT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Fiji Time<BR>1200&nbsp;&nbsp; GILT&nbsp; &nbsp; Gilbert Islands Time<BR>1200&nbsp;&nbsp; MHT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Marshall Islands Time<BR>1200&nbsp;&nbsp; NRT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Nauru Time<BR>1200&nbsp;&nbsp; NZST&nbsp; &nbsp; New Zealand Standard Time<BR>1200&nbsp;&nbsp; PETT&nbsp; &nbsp; Petropavlosk-Kamchatski Time<BR>1200&nbsp;&nbsp; TVT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuvalu Time<BR>1200&nbsp;&nbsp; WAKT&nbsp; &nbsp; Wake Time<BR>1200&nbsp;&nbsp; WFT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Wallis &amp; Futuna Time<BR>1200&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; MAGST&nbsp;&nbsp; Magadan Summer Time<BR>1200&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; NCST&nbsp; &nbsp; New Caledonia Summer Time<BR>1200&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; VUST&nbsp; &nbsp; Vanuatu Summer Time<BR>1245&nbsp;&nbsp; CHST?&nbsp;&nbsp; Chatham Standard Time<BR>1300&nbsp;&nbsp; ANAT&nbsp; &nbsp; Anadyr Time<BR>1300&nbsp;&nbsp; PHOT&nbsp; &nbsp; Phoenix Islands Time<BR>1300&nbsp;&nbsp; TOT&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tonga Time<BR>1300&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; NZDT&nbsp; &nbsp; New Zealand Daylight Time<BR>1300&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; PETST&nbsp;&nbsp; Petropavlosk-Kamchatski Summer T<BR>1345&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; CHDT&nbsp; &nbsp; Chatham Daylight Time<BR>1400&nbsp;&nbsp; LINT&nbsp; &nbsp; Line Islands Time<BR>1400&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ANAST&nbsp;&nbsp; Anadyr Summer Time<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 02:54:02 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Damn, it's a big country!<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Jeff Zeitlin writes:<BR>&gt;&gt; On Mon, 18 Dec 2000 04:57:23 -0500 (EST), "Mikko V. I. Parviainen"<BR>&gt;&gt; &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;And the US is small... What have you, four time zones? Our friendly<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;eastern neighbour spans eleven, count them, eleven time zones.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;(Ok, Hawaii might count as fifth, I don't know.)<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Six: Eastern, Central, Mountain, Pacific, Alaska, Hawaii.&nbsp; There's _two_<BR>&gt;&gt; hours difference between Alaska and Pacific; the country actually spans<BR>&gt;&gt; seven zones, with no land in one of them.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Hm...actually, I think it spans 8 if you include the entire alaskan peninsula<BR>&gt; (GMT +5 to +12).&nbsp; The alaskan peninsula stretches all the way to the date<BR>&gt; line.<BR><BR>Alaska "proper" is all one time zone and has been for some years. Being<BR>that far north, the zones were too damned narrow to be practical<BR>otherwise. The Aleutians are (apparently) in the same zone as Hawaii.<BR><BR>See the table in another post.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 02:56:51 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Odd weapons question<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Is there any theoretical reason why a ship with multiple lasers (particularly<BR>&gt; if non-grav X-ray lasers) couldn't focus all of them to a single point?&nbsp; <BR>&gt; Multiple beams are focused to a single location routinely in laser fusion<BR>&gt; work, and I don't see why focusing two mirrors to some specific resolution<BR>&gt; should be all that more difficult than focusing one mirror.<BR><BR>Distance is a big factor. Remember that without the magic "grav<BR>focusing" *diffraction* makes the spot size of a laser at any decent<BR>combat range bigger than some ships!<BR><BR>Shorter wavelengths such as x-rays help, since the diffraction limit is<BR>based on the ratio between the wavelength and the diameter of the<BR>emitter.<BR><BR>But keep in mind that you may not be *able* to bring more than a couple<BR>lasers to bear on a target, depending on what direction it is in.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 03:00:39 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Odd weapons question<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Bruce Johnson writes:<BR>&gt;&gt; No, I wouldn't think there would be, so long as there aren't bearing<BR>&gt;&gt; problems.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; In which case you are likely to be unable to hit the broadside of a barn ;)<BR><BR>I think he means "bearing" as in "bring the weapon to bear on the<BR>target" not "bearing" as in ball/roller/etc.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; However, in real combat situations this would likely be difficult to do<BR>&gt;&gt; depending on how target-rich the environment is.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; How does having more targets affect the difficulty of aiming?&nbsp; Being shot<BR>&gt; could easily affect aiming (and multiple grav-focus lasers might well <BR>&gt; interfere with one another if fired at the same time) but I can't see how<BR>&gt; a target-rich environment would affect anything other than tempting one to<BR>&gt; shoot at multiple targets.<BR><BR>More than tempting. In a target rich environment, you have *multiple<BR>ships aiming at *you*. Concentrating your fire on one of them means the<BR>others get to quit dodging... which will improve their accuracy. <BR><BR>Also, keep in mind that *if* you can aime the lasers accuractely enough<BR>to all hit the same spot at light second ranges, you have increased the<BR>power delivered at the cost of *greatly* decreasing the chance of a hit!<BR><BR>If you hit, yo do more damage but given that the zone of uncertainty<BR>containing the ship is often much bigger than the ship, you have a<BR>better chance of *hitting* the target if you spread your shots out so<BR>as to cover more of the zone.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 03:07:41 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Seas of LOX<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; SNIP: Helium stuff<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; As noted in another message, helium *boils* at about 4 K. That's rather<BR>&gt;&gt; cool, even for interstellar space. Hydrogen will work (you can have<BR>&gt;&gt; free hydrogen simply because there's so much that it runs out of things<BR>&gt;&gt; to combine with it). So will neon.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I vaguely recall a part of Joe Hadelman's (sp?) novel 'The Forever War' <BR>&gt; (recently<BR>&gt; granted a sequel), that revolved around a superliguid of Hydrogen.&nbsp; My <BR>&gt; chemistry<BR>&gt; is way in my past, so how feasible is the idea?&nbsp; Would it work out past <BR>&gt; Pluto on<BR>&gt; a Kuiper Belt object?<BR><BR>As I recall, it was *helium* not hydrogen. And it's pretty damned<BR>unlikely, simply because superfluid states are due to the properties of<BR>the atoms/molecules at the *quantum* level.<BR><BR>Also, hydrogen *freezes* at about 18 K. I'm not sure how far out you<BR>have to get before that is a problem.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 03:10:50 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Seas of LOX<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Ok... What kinds of really really cold liquids would we see on a rouge<BR>&gt;&gt;planet?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Really cold planets probably won't have any liquid - past a point, the<BR>&gt; atmosphere all freezes, and liquids become impractical.<BR><BR>Nope. Helium won't freeze except under 26 atmospheres of pressure, even<BR>at -272.2 C (0.95 K). The "zero point" motion required by the<BR>uncertainty principle is enough to keep it liquid otherwise.<BR><BR>&gt; Moderately cold (90K) planets can have seas of liquid methane/ethane, like<BR>&gt; Titan probably does.<BR><BR>&gt; Liquid nitrogen is a marginal possibility though I'm not sure what you'd make<BR>&gt; the atmosphere out of to go with it.<BR><BR>You'd need a cold planet that had undergown UV bombardment long enough<BR>and intense enough to convert all the ammonia to nitrogen and hydrogen<BR>*and* long enough for the hydrogen to be lost to space. <BR><BR>Basicly, you'd need an earthlike planet, with no life, that had been<BR>removed from its star. <BR><BR>Without being near a star it wouldn't have had the ammonia broken down<BR>*and* wouldn't have lost the hydrogen released from the ammonia. <BR><BR>Without being removed from the star, it wouldn't be cold enough for<BR>liquid nitrogen. <BR><BR>A *very* elliptical orbit might do it, but it's hard to justify a<BR>decent sized planet in a "cometary" orbit. You also have the problem of<BR>it taking a *long* time to break down the ammonia that way. Probably<BR>too long for it to happen in this universe (you don't get enough<BR>ammonia until at least the second generation of stars, and they are no<BR>more than 10 billion years old).<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 03:21:05 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Seas of LOX<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; [I wrote:]<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; True enough.&nbsp; You'd want a fully oxidised crust though, or a little<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; bit of space-dust hitting at 60 km/s might set the whole world on fire<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; :^)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&gt; And the little bit of space dust will burn nicely.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Yes, it and everything else that isn't already oxidised.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; (Hmm -- heat from a ship's thrusters?&nbsp; "It can't possibly be liquid<BR>&gt; oxygen!&nbsp; Just set down near the shoreline")<BR><BR>Cruel. <BR><BR>One way to get that sort of thing would be for a (very unlikely) close<BR>stellar encounter to have ejected a planet with an oxygen/nitrogen<BR>atmosphere from a system. (c.f. Fritz Lieber;s short story "A Pail of<BR>Air"). <BR><BR>Or maybe an elliptical orbit would be better. That way, primitive life<BR>forms could survive, and keep replenishing the oxygen supply. <BR>&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&gt; So that'd give a lower boundary. I'm not up to figuring the effective<BR>&gt;&gt; temp that goes with that flux.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; For a black body, 140 nW/m^2 corresponds to a temperature of about 1.3<BR>&gt; K.&nbsp; T = (flux/sigma)^(1/4), where sigma is the Stefan-Boltzmann<BR>&gt; constant, about 5.67e-8 W / m^2 K^4.<BR><BR>Ok, since that's below the 2.7 K background, we are back to 2.7 K as<BR>the absolute minimum.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Keep in mind the fact that below 10k, gaseous helium might as well be<BR>&gt;&gt; liquid as far as heat conductivity and the like go.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Yes, very true.&nbsp; It just won't settle into puddles or have a defined<BR>&gt; surface.&nbsp; I wonder if thermal eascape of helium to space could cool<BR>&gt; the world to below the equilibrium temperature?&nbsp; Hmm... not for<BR>&gt; geological time periods, so forget that.<BR><BR>I think I'm going to have to break down and check out the CD version of<BR>the CRC handbook. If the tabular data is set up as any sort of database<BR>that I can search, I can create some useful lists, such as all listed<BR>compounds in order of melting/boiling points. Useful for designing<BR>"extreme" planets such as this. <BR><BR>Somewhere I have a list I dug out for a planet at the *other* extreme.<BR>I had it orbiting at about .1 AU from a G class star, but farther out<BR>from a brighter star would work too. <BR><BR>The idea even works better now that they think planets can form and<BR>then be forced to spiral in. <BR><BR>What I was doing was taking the elemental abundance for earth, then<BR>checking to see what compounds/elements were solid and liquid at those<BR>temps. Then I was throwing out things that either broke down at those<BR>temps or would have reacted with other things. So, for example, there<BR>are no hydrogen compounds, because they'd all break down, and even<BR>sulfur compounds are gone, because they'd all be gases, and the sulfur<BR>would have escaped to space.<BR><BR>Then you take the remaining stuff and try to figure out how much of each<BR>element would have wound up in which compounds. <BR><BR>All this was being done by hand. I ought to try re-doing it now that I<BR>have a computer. :-)<BR><BR>I suspect that the world would be worth mining, if you could manage to<BR>land on it. Of course, even "nightside" temps are likely to be high...<BR>Especially if it's in a resonance orbit such as Mercury's. :-)<BR><BR>Dayside temps are out of the question (as I recall, I figured they were<BR>on the order of "white heat")<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3425<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, December 19 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3426<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Reft sector X-boat link<BR>Re: Skills and stuff<BR>Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>YTU and MTU and the OTU, oh my (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising Each Other in General<BR>Re: ...the Serious Business of Despising Each Other in General<BR>RE: Reft sector X-boat link<BR>Re: Dune "Traveller-esque" Question<BR>RE: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR>RE: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR>Re: Dune "Traveller-esque" Question<BR>Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR>Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising Each Other in General<BR>Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Taxes and churches<BR>Re: Those Damn French :) <BR>RE: Alan Dean Foster (was Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel)<BR>Re: Alan Dean Foster (was Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel)<BR>RE: (OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 03:39:35 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Reft sector X-boat link<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; We have a number of descriptions of jump travel and in all of them<BR>&gt;&gt; it is mentioned that jump duration varies. In none of them, however,<BR>&gt;&gt; is it even suggested that this affects the time it takes to go from<BR>&gt;&gt; the emergence point to the planet. The logical deduction is that it<BR>&gt;&gt; does not matter. Which is easiest explained by saying that the<BR>&gt;&gt; emergence point moves along with the target world.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; That brings up interesting questions.&nbsp; It would seem then, that moving<BR>&gt; the jump emergence point is a function of the astrogator.&nbsp; What are<BR>&gt; the limits of this?&nbsp; Are there any?&nbsp; Is it straight-line movement<BR>&gt; only, or does it follow the path of the planet's orbit?&nbsp; Is it<BR>&gt; affected by gravity?&nbsp; Does the velocity of the exit point affect your<BR>&gt; own velocity when you emerge from jumpspace?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The answers to all of these questions have military implications.<BR><BR>My take is that you aim for a point in space (relative to where you<BR>enter jump). You emerge after a period (see rules for determining<BR>this), and are within some relatively small distance of the<BR>co-ordinates you aimed for (unless there's been a misjump). Marc posted<BR>rules for determining how far you were from the point you were aiming<BR>at (but has never said whether it's a fixed point or moves with the<BR>target). <BR><BR>For velocity, my take is that it's conserved. So if you were moving at<BR>5 km/sec in direction X relative to (say) Sol when you jumped, you<BR>emerge moving 5 km/sec in direction X RELATIVE TO SOL. This is<BR>regardless of whether you were jumping to or from Sol, or jumping<BR>between stars nowhere near Sol. <BR><BR>Pick a different star, and you'll get a different velocity and<BR>direction, but again they'd be the same before and after jump.<BR><BR>A given velocity in a given direction is a "vector". <BR><BR>This means that for any pair of worlds, there will be preferred jump<BR>entry and exit points, so as to save some fuel by jumping with the<BR>"ideal" vector. Basicly, you'd boost towards the 100 diameter limit in<BR>a direction such that your velocity relative to target target planet<BR>will be low (assuming you boost at constant acceleration *without*<BR>tirnover). This saves on deceleration at the destination, if you come<BR>out close to your intended jump duration.<BR><BR>But you don't *have* to. So you can come out anyplace you choose as<BR>long as your "course line" doesn't pass thru anything's 100 diameter<BR>limit. <BR><BR>Also, this means that the "ideal" vector varies over time because of<BR>the motions of the planets in their orbits. The stars move too, but<BR>that's not cyclic, so it can be treated as a "fixed" quantity.<BR><BR>I imagine that some companies will go to the trouble of doing "military<BR>style" extended jump calcs just to get the reduction in uncertainty of<BR>arrival time (minutes to hiurs, rather than hours to days). this will<BR>save fuel (a minor consideration) and enable them to keep tighter<BR>schedules (an important consideration). <BR><BR>I also expect that X-boats use the extended calculations, and get<BR>"dropped off" by the tender with the best practical vector, so as time<BR>make the transit as predictable as possible, on both ends.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 03:58:22 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Skills and stuff<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Perhaps this idea can be folded into Chargen as well?<BR>&gt;&gt; For example:&nbsp; Army Basic Training: Brawling-0, Gun-0, Vehicle-0).<BR>&gt;&gt; Merchant Training (Steward-0, Streetwise-0, Bribery-0)<BR>&gt;&gt; Things like that?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; *scratches head*<BR>&gt; What the heck is Chargen?<BR><BR>Short for "Character Generation".<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 13:14:52 +0100<BR>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen &lt;rancke@diku.dk&gt;<BR>Subject: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>&gt;Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>&gt;&gt;There is no evidence anywhere in canon that the emergence point does<BR>&gt;&gt;not move with time [...] The logical deduction is that it does<BR>&gt;&gt;not matter. Which is easiest explained by saying that the emergence<BR>&gt;&gt;point moves along with the target world.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;No, it's most easily explained by saying that the authors never thought<BR>&gt;of it.<BR><BR>As far as I am concerned that's an explanation that has no place in these kinds<BR>of discussions. We have a body of lore and what deductions we make are based on<BR>that body. HOW that body came into being is not really relevant. <BR><BR>&gt;You *did* note that for a 1 day early or late emergence, the difference<BR>&gt;amounts to around an hour at 1 g?<BR><BR>Actually, no I didn't. If you had any canonical references that stated that the<BR>emergence point was sationary relative to the planet aimed for, that would be a<BR>great way to explain the discrepancy. But you don't, so there is no discrepancy<BR>to begin with.<BR><BR>&gt;Assuming the emergence point moves brings in a host of questions that I<BR>&gt;don't think we want to deal with. To start with, how does it know which<BR>&gt;way to move?<BR><BR>"It" doesn't know anything, of course. It's simply a function of jump<BR>navigation. The astrogator includes some function that compensates for time<BR>lapse. Or something. Don't ask me, I'm not an astrogator.<BR><BR>&gt;After all, it's *also* an established fact in the game that you can<BR>&gt;jump into "empty" space. The early expeditions from Earth had to do<BR>&gt;that as there aren't any stars within J1 of Earth.<BR><BR>So? The two cases are not equivalent. In one the astrogator wants to emerge as<BR>close to a particular moving object as possible, in the other he wants to emerge<BR>somewhere in empty space.<BR><BR>&gt;So how does the drive know that you are jumping for a point outside the<BR>&gt;planet's 100 diameter limit, rather than to a point in empty space that<BR>&gt;happens to be near a planet?<BR><BR>The astrogator told it.<BR><BR>&gt;Also, this means that fleets would wind up *more* scattered than they do.<BR>&gt;Because every ship would come out at a different spot relative to the<BR>&gt;planet, depending on how long it was in jump, rather than staying in<BR>&gt;more or less the same spot relative to the rest of the fleet and just<BR>&gt;coming out at a different time.<BR><BR>That's a third case, one where the astrogators wanted to emerge more or less in<BR>the same spot regardless of time elapsed. So the astrogators took that into<BR>account. I'm not saying that you CAN'T aim for a particular spot; I'm just<BR>saying that you CAN do otherwise.<BR><BR><BR>Hans<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 13:28:15 +0100<BR>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen &lt;rancke@diku.dk&gt;<BR>Subject: YTU and MTU and the OTU, oh my (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>Eris writes:<BR>&gt;Not canon perhaps, but of course that doesn't matter to me, but IMTU<BR>&gt;jump duration does alter time to mainworld.&nbsp; To give an example of<BR>&gt;something liek this...if the mainworld and it's system is moving at<BR>&gt;30 km/s, then each hour early or late moves the ship 108 000 km away<BR>&gt;from it's optimal entry point.<BR><BR>Eris, I wouldn't dream of telling you what you can or cannot do IYTU, but I must<BR>confess that I'm not terribly interested in discussing it. Nothing personal, I'm<BR>not terribly interested in discussing anyone's TU but my own and the OTU. The<BR>whole concept of canon is pretty meaningless unless applied to one particular<BR>universe.<BR><BR>Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that I'm not interested in hearing about<BR>other peoples' TUs. I am. I'm just not interested in discussing them, because I<BR>feel such discussions to be irresolvable and ultimately futile. Any discussion<BR>that isn't based on common axioms is futile and any discussion whare either part<BR>can void an axiom by saying "That's how it is IMTU" is not worth the effort.<BR><BR>Of course, if someone starts out a discussion by stating just how his TU<BR>diffiers from the OTU, I might enjoy discussing the ramifications. But<BR>otherwise, unless I specifically say otherwise, I'm always referring to the OTU<BR>(or the GTU).<BR><BR><BR><BR>Hans<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:39:19 -0000<BR>From: "Ben Aaronovitch" &lt;bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising Each Other in General<BR><BR>Yep, but naturally I held myself aloof.<BR><BR>Ben<BR><BR>'Let's be honest here - you paid for the women.'<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Bill Murrey - Scrooged<BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: Jones, Dean &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 10:02 AM<BR>Subject: RE: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising Each Other<BR>in General<BR><BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Regarding the French:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The farther away you get from Paris, the better French<BR>&gt; &gt; people are.<BR>&gt; &gt; When<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &lt; MAJOR SNIP&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; les Francaise<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; You know, I just started reading this and I thought, 'now that sounds<BR>&gt; &gt; familiar...' Then I realised that you could substitute 'Britain' for<BR>&gt; &gt; 'France', and 'London' for 'Paris' (You'd have problems about<BR>&gt; &gt; the 'learning<BR>&gt; &gt; English', though..)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; And I AM British (and a neut^h^h^haturalised Australian, too)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Ben Aaronovitch might not agree :)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 08:41:50 -0500<BR>From: "Paul Drye" &lt;p_drye@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: ...the Serious Business of Despising Each Other in General<BR><BR>&gt;Or 'Canada' and 'Toronto' (which, their delusions to the contrary, _isn't_ <BR>&gt;the national capital...)<BR><BR>And doesn't need to be.<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Paul Drye<BR><BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 13:45:07 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Reft sector X-boat link<BR><BR>Leonard wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; This means that for any pair of worlds, there will be preferred jump<BR>&gt; entry and exit points, so as to save some fuel by jumping with the<BR>&gt; "ideal" vector. Basicly, you'd boost towards the 100 diameter limit in<BR>&gt; a direction such that your velocity relative to target target planet<BR>&gt; will be low (assuming you boost at constant acceleration *without*<BR>&gt; tirnover). This saves on deceleration at the destination, if you come<BR>&gt; out close to your intended jump duration.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; But you don't *have* to. So you can come out anyplace you choose as<BR>&gt; long as your "course line" doesn't pass thru anything's 100 diameter<BR>&gt; limit. <BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Presumably then, you are using Jump Masking from Far Trader, or something<BR>like it anyway?<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Also, this means that the "ideal" vector varies over time because of<BR>&gt; the motions of the planets in their orbits. The stars move too, but<BR>&gt; that's not cyclic, so it can be treated as a "fixed" quantity.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I imagine that some companies will go to the trouble of doing <BR>&gt; "military<BR>&gt; style" extended jump calcs just to get the reduction in uncertainty of<BR>&gt; arrival time (minutes to hiurs, rather than hours to days). this will<BR>&gt; save fuel (a minor consideration) and enable them to keep tighter<BR>&gt; schedules (an important consideration). <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I also expect that X-boats use the extended calculations, and get<BR>&gt; "dropped off" by the tender with the best practical vector, so as time<BR>&gt; make the transit as predictable as possible, on both ends.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Agreed. Seems reasonable.<BR><BR>Dean <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 09:08:56 -0500<BR>From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Dune "Traveller-esque" Question<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 23:48:50 +1300<BR>&gt;From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: RE: Dune "Traveller-esque" Question<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>So, basically... make the New Era something of a Butlerian Jihad against <BR>machines that are too smart, add the TL16 Holtzman effects, lob an <BR>ornithopter at it, and you get Dune's Imperium?<BR><BR>Oh, yeah, and have a planet named Arrakis in some out-freyn sector like, <BR>oh, Trojan Reach. =)<BR><BR>I wonder how many people have run a Dune campaign using Traveller?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 14:13:36 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; And some of them are downright *weird*. For example, "the Orange<BR>&gt; Catholic Bible". For those not aware of it, in Ireland (and elsewhere)<BR>&gt; the "Orangemen" are *very* anti-Catholic Protestants...<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>They like a good march...usually through the Catholic sections of Belfast. <BR><BR>Ob-Trav: The PCs are hired to provide security for a local yearly<BR>procession....<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 14:14:22 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR><BR>LOL<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Douglas E. Berry [mailto:gridlore@pop.mindspring.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 16 December 2000 20:54<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Mu'ad-dib is Fremen for sh*thead.<BR>&gt; -- <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>&gt; http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 09:22:15 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: "John P. Raynor" &lt;john.raynor@yale.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Dune "Traveller-esque" Question<BR><BR>On Tue, 19 Dec 2000, Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Here's a question for you DUNE aficionados out there.&nbsp; Although not<BR>&gt; specfically, this question is "Traveller-esque" in nature (it's the kind<BR>&gt; of thing a Traveller player thinks about).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; My question is this...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; If the Butlerian Jihan came along, and computers and AI technology<BR>&gt; wasn't used anymore--how did the discovery of Melange on Arrakis ever<BR>&gt; get off planet?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; If they didn't have ships anymore with those huge computers required to<BR>&gt; navigate Foldspace and the drives--there would be no interstellar<BR>&gt; travel--Melange could have never made it to another planet (because the<BR>&gt; Spacing Guild sure wasn't on Arrakis to begin with).<BR><BR>Because Herbert changed his story, with respect to the role of the spice,<BR>several times.&nbsp; In the original novel, the spice was a fairly recent<BR>discovery (at least as far as the Imperium as a whole was concerned), just<BR>one more "awareness spectrum narcotic" (Herbert's term) in a universe that<BR>already had quite a few.&nbsp; Later on, Herbert seems to realize that making<BR>the spice merely "the first among equals" or "the latest and greatest"<BR>would undermine the "hydraulic despotism" (again, his term) upon which the<BR>political plausibility of the rest of the series depends, so he quietly<BR>forgets about the spice's novelty, and all those potential substitutes.<BR>Pity.&nbsp; His universe was richer and more interesting the other way.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; - J. Raynor<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 07:09:33 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR><BR>From: Douglas E. Berry &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Then I would like the hear a thank you for all of the time us arrogant<BR>&gt;&gt;Americans went to some country that didn't care about us &amp; we saved their<BR>&gt;&gt;lives.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;legate, chill out.&nbsp; Nothing is older than that "but we saved you!" line.<BR>&gt;We didn't save any Scandanavian counties (unless y'all still count<BR>&gt;Denmark), and in fact fought alongside and under&nbsp; the nations we went to<BR>save.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; And, Norway.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; But, without our support, the war would never have been won, Doug.<BR>Remember, in North Africa alone, the American did in 3 months to Romell's<BR>Africa Korps what the Brits did in three years.&nbsp; They also turned the tide<BR>of the Battle for North Africa.&nbsp; Without the US, D-Day would never have<BR>happened, nor would the invasion of Italy.&nbsp; Yes, we fought along side them,<BR>but Ike was the Overall CO, &amp; we supplied them with everything.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Then why do we export our culture, not because we have to, but because<BR>&gt;&gt;people want to see it.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I see.&nbsp; So such things as Monty Python, Pokemon, and Anime are home grown?<BR>&gt;Everybody exports pieces of their culture.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Anime came from the Walt Disney movies the Japanese were shown durring<BR>the Occupation.&nbsp; Pokemon came from Anime.&nbsp; So it is just a reflection of our<BR>culture through Japanese eyes.&nbsp; And, really cool, other than Pokemon, I<BR>might add.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Monty Python I will grant you.<BR><BR>&gt;Do you know that the largest movie industry in the world is in India?<BR>&gt;Makes Hollywood look like a midget.&nbsp; Their films are exported all over<BR>&gt;central asia.&nbsp; But since they rarely get seen ion the US, most of us don't<BR>&gt;know anything about them.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I do, though I do not understand how dancing can stop an invading army.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Only if you live in the US.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;*boggle*&nbsp; Riigghtt.. LL, you *really* need to read up on places like<BR>Sweden.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I have, they produce some of the best porn around along with some damn<BR>good chocolate.&nbsp; *weg*<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 07:12:42 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising Each Other in General<BR><BR>From: peersce@mindspring.com &lt;peersce@mindspring.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;Regarding American culture as perceived by the rest of the world:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;HOLLYWOOD IS BULLSHIT.&nbsp; TV AND MOVIES ARE BULLSHIT.&nbsp; DO NOT BELIEVE WHAT<BR>YOU<BR>&gt;SEE ON TV.&nbsp; EVERYONE IN THE U.S.A. KNOWS THAT WHATEVER COMES OUT OF THE<BR>&gt;MEDIA IS A STEAMING CROCK OF STINKING BULLSHIT AND LIES. Except ESPN.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Well, I am happy to hear that you think Traveller is a &amp; I quote, "A<BR>STEAMING CROCK OF STINKING BULLSHIT".&nbsp; Considering that media also includes<BR>books &amp; RPGs, I don't know why you even play a game you consider to be "A<BR>STEAMING CROCK OF STINKING BULLSHIT", do you?&nbsp; Could it be you enjoy "A<BR>STEAMING CROCK OF STINKING BULLSHIT"?&nbsp; Myself, I don't, but then you might<BR>enjoy "A STEAMING CROCK OF STINKING BULLSHIT" in the morning for breakfast.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 07:13:34 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>From: Leonard Erickson &lt;shadow@krypton.rain.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 4. So we can have Ditzie T-Shirts made with "The Jesse Degraff<BR>Monthly<BR>&gt;&gt; Fun Shoot" printed on then.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Actually, It occurs to me that we ought to have some T-shirts or even<BR>&gt;jackets done up:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Famile Spofulam<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Heavy Weapons<BR>&gt; Testing Team<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;or some such.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Two things, Leonard.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 1. I am trying to get some keyboard kills with this post.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 2. Sound great to me.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 15:54:53 +0100 (MET)<BR>From: flow523@gmx.de<BR>Subject: Taxes and churches<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ------------------------------<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 02:33:02 PST<BR>&gt; From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;ITYM "mandatory membership contributions to religious groups on<BR>&gt; behalf<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;of their voluntary members"&nbsp; HTH HAND<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; The Austrian who was describing this to me (on a train in Austria)<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; indicated that you<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; couldn't avoid contributions by not designating a religion.&nbsp; You<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; had to pick something (even if it was atheism) and contribute.<BR><BR>I don't really know about Austria, but in Germany, you pay 'Church-Tax'.<BR>This tax isn't really a tax, it's a certain percentage (@ 2% with a maximum<BR>cap) that goes directly off your wages, through your employer to the church<BR>in question. <BR>The reason why this system was chosen was a) Germans tended to work longer<BR>for the same company. Simply deducting your church dues was easier. And b)<BR>the churches made their influence rolls rather well after WWII.<BR><BR>Not everyone gets these taxes and not everyone has to pay them. Actually<BR>it pertains only to roman-catholics and protestants who are members of these<BR>churches. So if you are no member, you don't have to pay the tax. <BR><BR>Of course, members of other religions do whatever they want to do to<BR>support their organized religions. No one checks to see if the muslims paid their<BR>dues to the poor, nor does anyone check if the asadru drank enough mead on<BR>the winter-solstice. <BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Were I subject to such laws, I would have to name my religion as the<BR>&gt; &gt; Church of the SubGenius.&nbsp; After all, if I _have_ to pony up, I may as<BR>&gt; &gt; well at least get some Slack out of the deal....<BR><BR>What can I say? I'm a discordian...<BR><BR>&gt; Alas, if Austria is anything like Germany, there are religions that the<BR>&gt; State doesn't recognize as *being* religions. And that's likely to be<BR>&gt; one of them.<BR><BR>You bet. But then, neither is Scientology. Which makes me smile everytime<BR>I think of it.<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR><BR>Flo<BR>www.iFlow.de<BR>relaunched just yesterday!<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change.<BR><BR>Sent through GMX FreeMail - http://www.gmx.net<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:14:55 -0500<BR>From: Ethan Henry &lt;ethan.henry@sitraka.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Those Damn French :) <BR><BR>John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; It would appear that many gamers (and other right-thinking folk) have a<BR>&gt; deep contempt for the Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys.<BR><BR>You mean the same cheese-eating monkeys that financed the American <BR>War of Independence? No wonder everyone hates Americans - what a bunch<BR>of ingrates. Sheesh.<BR><BR>BTW, can we stuff all the "my culture rules" crap? When it comes to<BR>a government's role in the "management" of culture, there's more than<BR>an ocean between the US and Europe. Leave it be, or at least take it<BR>somewhere else.<BR><BR>Ethan<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 15:18:10 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Alan Dean Foster (was Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel)<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: shadow@krypton.rain.com [mailto:shadow@krypton.rain.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 19 December 2000 00:23<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Alan Dean Foster (was Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Just when were they hearing this about Foster?<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; I ask because he is the original SW fic author. He is <BR>&gt; widely considered to <BR>&gt; &gt; be George Lucas' ghostwriter for the novel version of the <BR>&gt; first Star Wars, <BR>&gt; &gt; and he was the first to publish a SW novel outside of the <BR>&gt; movie canon. The <BR>&gt; &gt; only other author who approaches his seniority in SW fic is <BR>&gt; DEAD (sadly, <BR>&gt; &gt; because he was also a wonderful Travelleresque author). <BR>&gt; Foster just had the <BR>&gt; &gt; sense to get out of SW fic back when it was still <BR>&gt; respectable and do his own <BR>&gt; &gt; stuff.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Actually, Foster was writing SF (about half original, half movie<BR>&gt; novelizations) *before* Star Wars. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I still kick myself for not buying the book with the silly cover blurb<BR>&gt; about the farm boy defeating the Empire. A friend who was with me on<BR>&gt; that visit to the bookstore *did* buy a copy. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; You have to keep in mind that this was *months* before the trailer for<BR>&gt; Star Wars showed up in the theater. It wasn't until much later that I<BR>&gt; realized what an opportunity I'd missed. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Foster original works are easily droppable into Traveller, <BR>&gt; Shadowrun, Rifts <BR>&gt; &gt; or (in a few cases) D&amp;D. Given your stated game <BR>&gt; preferences, Legate, you <BR>&gt; &gt; should fill this gap in your reading...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I prefer his stuff set in the Humanx Commonwealth.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Yeah...shame that GURPS: Humanx was such an early book...the costs were a<BR>little off and the rules rather vague. Good book, tho.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:21:53 -0500<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Alan Dean Foster (was Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel)<BR><BR>&gt;I still kick myself for not buying the book with the silly cover blurb<BR>&gt;about the farm boy defeating the Empire. A friend who was with me on<BR>&gt;that visit to the bookstore *did* buy a copy.<BR>&gt;You have to keep in mind that this was *months* before the trailer for<BR>&gt;Star Wars showed up in the theater. It wasn't until much later that I<BR>&gt;realized what an opportunity I'd missed.<BR><BR>I've got one of those pre-movie, original paperbacks. I just checked my<BR>"deep storage" footlocker o' books a month or so back.&nbsp; It's there,<BR>along with my original copy of Deities &amp; Demigods and the 70's printing of<BR>the Lensmen Series (complete with "The Vortex Blaster")<BR><BR><BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>Born to be Wild. Sentenced to Sedation<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 15:28:31 -0000<BR>From: Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: (OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Legate Legion [mailto:legate@futureone.com]<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; From: Douglas E. Berry &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Then I would like the hear a thank you for all of the <BR>&gt; time us arrogant<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;Americans went to some country that didn't care about us &amp; <BR>&gt; we saved their<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;lives.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;legate, chill out.&nbsp; Nothing is older than that "but we saved <BR>&gt; you!" line.<BR>&gt; &gt;We didn't save any Scandinavian counties (unless y'all still count<BR>&gt; &gt;Denmark), and in fact fought alongside and under&nbsp; the <BR>&gt; nations we went to<BR>&gt; save.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; And, Norway.<BR><BR>Denmark and Norway were still under German rule until the surrender. <BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; But, without our support, the war would never have been won, Doug.<BR>&gt; Remember, in North Africa alone, the American did in 3 months <BR>&gt; to Romell's<BR>&gt; Africa Korps what the Brits did in three years.&nbsp; <BR><BR>And If the British Eighth Army hadn't been holding Rommel at El Alamein,<BR>do you really think that Torch would still have been opposed by French<BR>forces with little (in general) desire to repel them. Kasserine showed<BR>how good the US troops in Africa *at that time* were. If their landings<BR>had been directly opposed by a Rommel not engaged in Egypt there would<BR>have been a bloody massacre.<BR><BR>It takes time to become battle hardened, and it wasn't until '43 that<BR>you could really call the American forces in the Mediterranean veterans.<BR><BR><BR>It was in America's interest to help Britain, and it took nearly over 2<BR>years for that to be realised by the majority. Even then it took a<BR>direct attack on the US to bring them in as combatants. Adding and extra<BR>10 million or so men into one sides armies is bound to make a<BR>difference.<BR><BR>As for the war in Europe, Germany had lost already by the time it<BR>declared war on America, it was just a matter of time. Britain had<BR>survived, Russia had held and was launching its own offensive<BR>(started December 6th 1941). If America hadn't joined in, Hitler's<BR>domination of Europe would have been replaced by Stalin's domination of<BR>Europe (or more so than it eventually was).<BR><BR>&gt; They also <BR>&gt; turned the tide<BR>&gt; of the Battle for North Africa.&nbsp; Without the US, D-Day would <BR>&gt; never have<BR>&gt; happened, nor would the invasion of Italy. <BR><BR>And without the British fighting long and hard with their backs to the<BR>wall in Malta, Egypt, the air over Britain, even the retreat from<BR>Dunkirk, just where do you think the Americans *could* have landed from?<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Yes, we fought along side them,<BR>&gt; but Ike was the Overall CO, &amp; we supplied them with everything.<BR><BR>As for the provision of supplies and equipment to the UK, don't forget<BR>that we were paying for them. Lend-lease wasn't free. And America was<BR>and is a trading nation, it had to sell it's goods somewhere.<BR><BR>Finally, it is Americans like *you* Legate, who create the impression in<BR>the rest of the world that all Americans are loud-mouthed, brash, boors.<BR>It is the attitude of "we came over there and saved your asses, so don't<BR>you forget it" that really wind up Europeans, especially the British, as<BR>it denigrates the loss and suffering of their own population, and<BR>minimises the role of their own armed forces. America never suffered the<BR>horrors of strategic bombing or occupation, so to constantly rub peoples<BR>noses in the fact is, well, 'bad-form'.<BR><BR>And bear in mind that it was because of the over 2 year delay in<BR>entering the war, and the undamaged infrastructure, that America was<BR>able to build up it's forces and produce war materiel in sufficient<BR>quantities that it could apply overwhelming force where it chose (once<BR>it had acquire the actual skill in battle to apply this force<BR>correctly). Being seperated from your nearest opponent by over 3000<BR>miles of water makes a lot of difference. Don't let an accident of<BR>geography make you think that you are 'better' than someone else...<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3426<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yh01.mx.aol.com (rly-yh01.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.33]) by air-yh02.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:28:14 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yh01.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:27:47 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id KAA96303;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:26:13 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:25:58 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id KAA96259<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:25:58 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:25:58 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012191525.KAA96259@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3426<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3427</B></TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, December 19 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3427<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR>C Critters<BR>Re: Jump Emergence (was re: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>RE: (OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR>Re: Odd weapons question<BR>Re: Taxes and churches<BR>Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR>Trans-Atlantic Invasion<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>OT: Xmas (military-style) ... FW from other lists<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3417<BR>Re: Those Damn French :) <BR>Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR>RE: (OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR>Re: Filkin' Tom Waits<BR>RE: Damn, it's a big country! (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground F orces))<BR>OT-Chris Bunch "Last Legion" Series?<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3417<BR>RE: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Vilani Word list needed<BR>Re: Seas of LOX<BR>Re: OT-Chris Bunch "Last Legion" Series?<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 09:30:41 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR><BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Ken, maybe I missed it, but...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Suppose Piter is trying to force a stuck hatch open. There's no real skill involved here, it's just brute force. Piter has a Str of 8 and the Ref decides that forcing the hatch is a Difficult task.&nbsp; How does KB3 handle this?<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>I was waiting for that to come up :)<BR><BR>It is in the KB3 Playtest write up, but I didn't draw attention to it (trying to keep things simple with the initial introduction).<BR><BR>There are no "Stat-only" or "Stat-based" throws in KB3.&nbsp; Every Task Throw is based on a Skill.<BR><BR>But, KB3 really broadens the definition of Default Skills a bit.&nbsp; Any skill that you can think up (or any situation that pops up in the game that requires a skill) in which the character can attempt the task without specialized<BR>training IS a Default Skill.<BR><BR>In KB3, EVERY character has EVERY Default Skill.&nbsp; There is no need to write this skill on the character's sheet (because everybody's got it)--and the only reason you woud want to take up space on the character sheet with a<BR>Default Skill is that the character has gained some expertise with the Default Skill (in that case, you'd want to record that the character has a level above 0 in that Default Skill).<BR><BR><BR><BR>So, if you and I were playing Traveller using KB3 (I'm GMing;&nbsp; You're running Piter), and the situation you describe above comes up.&nbsp; Here's how it would work out.&nbsp; (I'm going to make real dice throws below as I write, recording<BR>what I throw.)<BR><BR>*Piter has a Str 8<BR><BR>*No skill on Piter's sheet can be used to open that doggone stuck hatch.<BR><BR>*The GM has decided that, to pull the hatch open, it will be a Difficult Task.<BR><BR><BR><BR>As GM, I say, "That sounds like a Lifting skill to me.&nbsp; Roll it as a Default."<BR><BR>Eris replies, "That means Piter has Lifting-0, governed by Str.&nbsp; I'll roll 1D".&nbsp; And that 1D is also the E-Die.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Eris rolls:&nbsp; He gets a 5.<BR><BR><BR><BR>The GM then rolls the Difficulty Throw.&nbsp; That hatch is stuck pretty good--it's a Difficult task.&nbsp; That means I, as the GM, will roll 3D and compare that result to Eris' "5".&nbsp; One of the three dice I am rolling is the E-Die.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Ken rolls:&nbsp; (I really just rolled this!)&nbsp; I get a "3" on one die, another "3" on the second die, and a "6" on the E-Die.&nbsp; Because a "6" popped up on the E-Die, I need to double all even dice.&nbsp; So, I just rolled 12 plus<BR>the other 6 points--I've got a total of 18!<BR><BR><BR><BR>Eris obviously bricked the roll (it was a hard one to make).&nbsp; Ken:&nbsp; "That hatch is stuck closed tighter than the legs of a virgin on prom night.&nbsp; Piter can't get that doggone thing open--it's no use!"<BR><BR>On top of this, Eris measures his roll.&nbsp; He looks at the "5" he just threw and compares it with the Stat used to govern Lifting (Str) and the result of the Difficulty Throw (it's all out on the table in front of him).<BR><BR>18 - 8 = 10.&nbsp; In order to get a regular Failure, Eris would have had to of thrown 10 or better (Piter's regular Failure zone is the Difficulty Throw minus Piter's governing Stat).&nbsp; He didn't do this....he rolled a "5"...which is<BR>outiside, lower than this zone.<BR><BR>Eris had thrown a Greater Failure (he would have been OK if I hadn't of had a "6" on the E-Die).&nbsp; The GM decides, because time is important (Piter is running through the decks of the ship, desperately trying to get away from the<BR>Zhodani Commando chasing him), that Piter spent two rounds trying to lift that hatch instead of one.&nbsp; The Zho Commando is now 2 rounds closer.<BR><BR><BR><BR>And, that's a pretty good example of how KB3 works.&nbsp; I think I might list some more examples later (when I have time), showing how KB3 can be used in the game.<BR><BR><BR><BR>QUICK PLAY SPEED TIP:&nbsp; Whenever a situation comes up where a Default Skill must be used, don't spend valuable game time trying to figure out exactly what Default Skill is appropriate for the task.&nbsp; All you really need to know is<BR>the governing Stat.&nbsp; Because, unless on a character's sheet, all Default Skills are level 0, the player's only going to roll 1D.<BR><BR>So, the speed tip is:&nbsp; If a Default Skill is appropriate, pick the governing Stat and roll 1D.&nbsp; Forget about the particulars of the actual skill.<BR><BR>In Piter's situation above, it's obvious that Str will be used to pull open that hatch.&nbsp; Simply roll 1D and use Str to measure the throw (don't waste time figuring if it is a "Lifting" skill, or an "Athletics" throw, or some<BR>other skill, etc).<BR><BR><BR><BR>NOTE ON KB3 DIFFICULTY:&nbsp; I wanted the Difficulties in KB3 to be "tightened" compared to other Traveller systems.&nbsp; There's always been some discussion about just how easy it is, sometimes, to roll a "Difficult" task, or an<BR>"Impossible" task.<BR><BR>In KB3, the skill names really fit the Difficulty.&nbsp; "Difficult" is really a hard throw to make in KB3.&nbsp; "Impossible" throws really have a less than 0% chance of success in many instances.<BR><BR>When Eris picked "Difficult" for that hatch above, that meant it was going to be "damn hard" to open the thing.&nbsp; "Average" may have been a better choice (depends on just how "stuck" the GM thinks the hatch is).<BR><BR><BR><BR>Long-winded, but, hopefully, informative.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:35:01 -0500<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: C Critters<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; That's where I got hung up -- I gave them all the originals, which<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &gt; they're keeping, and ordered the various local/state/federal offices<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &gt; to seal my records "while they're investigating".<BR>&gt;That sounds odd -- perhaps there is something special about your case -- all<BR>&gt;I had to sumbit was certified copies of the relevant documents. I had the<BR>&gt;advantage of applying in the same county where I was born, of course . . .<BR>&gt;and having attended high school with the clerk processing the application.<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Seriously, I think you need to talk to a lawyer.<BR>&gt;Certainly a complaint to a congressman -- that is what the critters are for .<BR><BR>Kenji is currently living the PRM.&nbsp; My suggestion would to use the Congress <BR>Critters<BR>from whatever state Kenji moved from.<BR>Our 500 pound Senate Gorilla (That's Senator Kennedy to the rest of you) <BR>requires<BR>volunteer work on at least 3 campaigns before handing out favors.<BR>Senator Kerry is *much* more approachable (I'm not allowed to say bad <BR>things about<BR>him, he nominated a friend's sons for the Naval Academy), but he seems a bit<BR>busy setting himself up for a 2004 run already.<BR>As for the House member, they just don't carry the clout...<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>Monday special, two valiums with a coffee chaser.<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 07:41:00 -0800<BR>From: "Bruce Macintosh" &lt;bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump Emergence (was re: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Assuming the emergence point moves brings in a host of questions that I<BR>&gt;&gt;don't think we want to deal with. To start with, how does it know which<BR>&gt;&gt;way to move?<BR>&gt;"It" doesn't know anything, of course. It's simply a function of jump<BR>&gt;navigation. The astrogator includes some function that compensates for time<BR>&gt;lapse. Or something. Don't ask me, I'm not an astrogator.<BR><BR>The answer I've suggested several times before - which makes by far<BR>the most sense - is that your emergence point moves at a velocity equal to<BR>the velocity you had when you entered jumpspace. Ergo, if you match velocities<BR>with your<BR>target world before entering jump,&nbsp; the emergence point will move along<BR>with it (to first order; maybe it even follows general relativisitic gravity and<BR>hence<BR>would follow the curvature of the target world's orbit too.) Nice and neat;<BR>no muss and fuss. People who don't match velocities before entering jumpspace<BR>could well end up a few days off from their target, which is a handy way of<BR>inconvieniencing PCs.<BR><BR>Bruce<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 08:52:45 -0700<BR>From: "J. Paul Sanders" &lt;timmon@primenet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: (OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR><BR>At 03:28 PM 12/19/00 +0000, you wrote:<BR>&lt;&lt;SNIP&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;Finally, it is Americans like *you* Legate, who create the impression in<BR>&gt;the rest of the world that all Americans are loud-mouthed, brash, boors.<BR>&gt;It is the attitude of "we came over there and saved your asses, so don't<BR>&gt;you forget it" that really wind up Europeans, especially the British, as<BR>&gt;it denigrates the loss and suffering of their own population, and<BR><BR>&gt;minimises the role of their own armed forces. America never suffered the<BR>&gt;horrors of strategic bombing or occupation, so to constantly rub peoples<BR>&gt;noses in the fact is, well, 'bad-form'.<BR><BR>Please bear in mind that 'Legates' claim to being an American are likely<BR>just as tenuous as his past claims of being a 1) Jewish Terrorist, 2)<BR>Scottish Highlander, or 3) Spy/Secret Agent Man (take your pick)... :)<BR>Before you give his flame-baiting more than a passing thought, consider the<BR>source and instead of nurturing his delusions by way of serious debate,<BR>rather urge him to resume taking his medication(s).<BR><BR>Paul<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 07:52:07 -0800<BR>From: "Bruce Macintosh" &lt;bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Odd weapons question<BR><BR>&gt;Is there any theoretical reason why a ship with multiple lasers (particularly<BR>&gt;if non-grav X-ray lasers) couldn't focus all of them to a single point?<BR>&gt;Multiple beams are focused to a single location routinely in laser fusion<BR>&gt;work, and I don't see why focusing two mirrors to some specific resolution<BR>&gt;should be all that more difficult than focusing one mirror.<BR><BR>You need to know the range to your target very precisely (if the<BR>laser spots are 10 cm across at the target and the lasers are<BR>separated by 100m, you need to know the range to the target<BR>to within 1%), but this might not be a problem with active sensors.<BR><BR>It wouldn't work with grav lasers - in that case the size of the laser<BR>spot is much smaller than the pointing accuracy of the laser, since<BR>the grav focus makes the spot size so small. Probably wouldn't<BR>work with x-ray lasers for similar reasons. No reason it wouldn't<BR>work with non-xray lasers.<BR><BR>Note that under FFS-type rules, for a non-armoured target this is<BR>inefficient; better to hit the target with lots of little lasers than one<BR>big one, generally.<BR><BR>Bruce<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 09:53:02 -0600<BR>From: "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" &lt;sdaniels@playnet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Taxes and churches<BR><BR>In the words of Frank Zappa:<BR><BR>"Tax the churches.<BR>Tax the property owned by the churches."<BR><BR>- -bloo<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 09:57:02 -0600<BR>From: "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" &lt;sdaniels@playnet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR><BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Ken, maybe I missed it, but...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Suppose Piter is trying to force a stuck hatch open. There's no real skill involved here, it's just brute force. Piter has a Str of 8 and the Ref decides that forcing the hatch is a Difficult task.&nbsp; How does KB3 handle this?<BR><BR>I was thinking something similar to this regarding<BR>firearms.&nbsp;&nbsp; Static target shooting would be IMHO<BR>mostly stat driven, at least enough that a high Dex<BR>amateur could be very good.&nbsp; But in the context<BR>of *combat*, there might be a much greater<BR>range between the talented amateur and the<BR>well-trained average joe.<BR><BR>I haven't finished reading KB3, though.&nbsp; Got distracted<BR>by cool KB history and traveller adventure stuff.<BR><BR>bloo<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 08:59:29 -0700<BR>From: Steve Charlton &lt;steve.charlton@ifsna.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Trans-Atlantic Invasion<BR><BR>This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand<BR>this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.<BR><BR>- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C069D4.AB77C3F0<BR>Content-Type: text/plain;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR><BR>I read in an issue of Military History (or Military History Quarterly; all<BR>the names are far too similar!) that a plan was drawn up in late 1940 for a<BR>cross-atlantic invasion of Europe, in case the UK surrendered or was<BR>invaded.<BR><BR>You have probably read about how seasick and weak some of the troops were<BR>after shipping to France from England on D-Day.&nbsp; Can you imagine how bad the<BR>troops would have been after a trans-Atlantic crossing?<BR><BR>I know some of the ships in the Torch landing came over directly from the<BR>US, but I have never read anything about how well off or not well off the<BR>passengers were on landing.<BR><BR>In terms of Traveller: interplanetary invasion forces are fortunate in that<BR>they do not need to deal with seasickness, but there are defintely some<BR>other problems to consider.&nbsp; Many of the troop transport designs I have seen<BR>invovle large numbers of troops in bunks or in low berth.&nbsp; In bunk-based<BR>ships, do the troops have enough room to exercise and stay fit on multi-week<BR>transits?&nbsp; Are there accomodations for holo-based training and briefings? <BR><BR>When dealing with low-berth troops, is there a recovery period required<BR>after 'thawing'?&nbsp; If so, where do the troops do this?&nbsp; How does a troop<BR>commander deal with accidental low berth deaths or injuries to key<BR>personnel?&nbsp; Do you end up carrying large numbers of extra personnel to<BR>handle these problems?<BR><BR>Lots of interesting questions.&nbsp; And is military toilet paper still as rough<BR>in the 53rd centory as it is today?<BR><BR>Steve Charlton<BR><BR>Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; And without the British fighting long and hard with their backs to the<BR>&gt; wall in Malta, Egypt, the air over Britain, even the retreat from<BR>&gt; Dunkirk, just where do you think the Americans *could* have landed from?<BR><BR>- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C069D4.AB77C3F0<BR>Content-Type: text/html;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable<BR><BR>&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;HEAD&gt;<BR>&lt;META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =<BR>charset=3Diso-8859-1"&gt;<BR>&lt;META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =<BR>5.5.2653.12"&gt;<BR>&lt;TITLE&gt;Trans-Atlantic Invasion&lt;/TITLE&gt;<BR>&lt;/HEAD&gt;<BR><BR><BR>
<P><FONT size=3>I read in an issue of Military History (or Military =<BR>History Quarterly; all the names are far too similar!) that a plan was =<BR>drawn up in late 1940 for a cross-atlantic invasion of Europe, in case =<BR>the UK surrendered or was invaded.</FONT></P><BR><BR>
<P><FONT size=3>You have probably read about how seasick and weak =<BR>some of the troops were after shipping to France from England on =<BR>D-Day.&amp;nbsp; Can you imagine how bad the troops would have been after a =<BR>trans-Atlantic crossing?</FONT></P><BR><BR>
<P><FONT size=3>I know some of the ships in the Torch landing came =<BR>over directly from the US, but I have never read anything about how =<BR>well off or not well off the passengers were on landing.</FONT></P><BR><BR>
<P><FONT size=3>In terms of Traveller: interplanetary invasion forces =<BR>are fortunate in that they do not need to deal with seasickness, but =<BR>there are defintely some other problems to consider.&amp;nbsp; Many of the =<BR>troop transport designs I have seen invovle large numbers of troops in =<BR>bunks or in low berth.&amp;nbsp; In bunk-based ships, do the troops have =<BR>enough room to exercise and stay fit on multi-week transits?&amp;nbsp; Are =<BR>there accomodations for holo-based training and briefings? </FONT></P><BR><BR>
<P><FONT size=3>When dealing with low-berth troops, is there a =<BR>recovery period required after 'thawing'?&amp;nbsp; If so, where do the =<BR>troops do this?&amp;nbsp; How does a troop commander deal with accidental =<BR>low berth deaths or injuries to key personnel?&amp;nbsp; Do you end up =<BR>carrying large numbers of extra personnel to handle these =<BR>problems?</FONT></P><BR><BR>
<P><FONT size=3>Lots of interesting questions.&amp;nbsp; And is military =<BR>toilet paper still as rough in the 53rd centory as it is today?</FONT><BR></P><BR><BR>
<P><FONT size=3>Steve Charlton</FONT><BR></P><BR><BR>
<P><FONT size=3>Matt Bond &amp;lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&amp;gt; =<BR>wrote:</FONT><BR><BR><FONT size=3>&amp;gt; And without the British fighting long and hard =<BR>with their backs to the</FONT><BR><BR><FONT size=3>&amp;gt; wall in Malta, Egypt, the air over Britain, =<BR>even the retreat from</FONT><BR><BR><FONT size=3>&amp;gt; Dunkirk, just where do you think the Americans =<BR>*could* have landed from?</FONT><BR></P><BR><BR><BR><BR>- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C069D4.AB77C3F0--<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:17:59 -0600<BR>From: Sinbad Sam &lt;sinbad@hex.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>At 02:25 AM 12/18/2000, you wrote:<BR>&gt;At 04:21 AM 12/18/2000 PST, you wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; And, what about your electrical power, do they try &amp; steal that as<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;well?<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;No, they steal *that* from Oregon. :-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Hey!&nbsp; We pay for ever watt!&nbsp; (I'm looking at our PG&amp;E [Pacific Graft and<BR>&gt;Extortion] bill as i write..)<BR><BR>Doug,<BR>Let us not forget San Diego Gouge and Extortion, from my naval days. Heck they could not put their logo on most of their vehicles, due people would go out their way to vandalize them.<BR><BR>Sinbad Sam<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:20:56 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: OT: Xmas (military-style) ... FW from other lists<BR><BR>Subject: Lt General CLAUS, Commander, Joint Arctic Operations<BR>Detachment, Distinguished Visitor,&nbsp; Date: Monday, December 18,<BR>2000 1:49PM<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 1.&nbsp; An official visit by Lt Gen Santa (NMI) Claus is expected<BR>at this&nbsp; headquarters 25 December 2000. The following instructions<BR>will be in effect&nbsp; and govern the activities of all personnel<BR>during the visit:<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; a. Not a creature will stir without official permission.<BR>This will include indigenous mice. Special stirring permits for<BR>necessary administrative actions will be obtained through normal<BR>command channels. Mice stirring permits will be obtained through<BR>the Surgeon General's office (Veterinary Services).<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; b. Personnel will settle their brains for a long winter<BR>nap prior to 2200 hours, 24 December 2000. Uniform for the nap<BR>will be: Pajamas, cotton, light, drowsing, with kerchief, general<BR>purpose, camouflage; and Cap, camouflage w/ear flaps. Equipment<BR>will be drawn from supply prior to 1900 hours, 24 December 2000.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; c. Personnel will utilize standard ration sugar plums for<BR>visions to dance through their heads. This item will be drawn from<BR>the servicing dining facility.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; d. Stockings, wool, cushion sole, will be hung by the<BR>chimney with care. Necessary safety precautions will be taken to<BR>avoid fire hazards caused by carelessly hung stockings. Unit Safety<BR>Officers will submit stocking hanging plans to this headquarters<BR>prior to 0800 hours, 24 December 2000, for approval.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; e. At the first sign of clatter from the lawn, all troops<BR>will spring from their beds to evaluate noise and cause. Immediate<BR>action will be taken to tear open the shutters and thrown open the<BR>window sashes.&nbsp; ODCSOPS Plan (Saint Nick), Reference SO No. 3,<BR>paragraph 6c, this headquarters, 2 February 1995, will be in effect<BR>to facilitate shutter tearing and sash throwing. Division chiefs<BR>will familiarize all personnel with procedures and are responsible<BR>for ensuring that no shutters are torn open nor window sashes<BR>thrown prior to start of official clatter.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; f. Prior to 2400, 24 December 2000, all personnel will be<BR>assigned "Wondering Eye" stations. After shutters are thrown and<BR>sashes are torn, these stations will be manned.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; g. ODCSLOG will assign one each Sleigh, miniature, M-66,<BR>and eight (8) deer, rein, tiny, for use of Lt Gen Claus' driver<BR>who, in accordance with current directives and other applicable<BR>regulations, must have a valid SF 56 properly annotated by Driver<BR>Testing; be authorized rooftop parking; and be able to shout "On<BR>Dasher, on Dancer, on Prancer and Vixen, up Comet, up Cupid, on<BR>Donner and Blitzen."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 2. Lt Gen Claus will enter quarters through standard chimneys.<BR>All units without chimneys will draw Chimney Simulator, M-6, for<BR>use during ceremonies. Chimney simulator units will be requested<BR>on Engineer Job Order Request Form submitted to the Furniture<BR>Warehouse prior to 19 December 2000, and issued on AF Form 3161,<BR>Request for Issue or Turn-In.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 3. Personnel will be rehearsed on shouting "Merry Christmas<BR>to all and to all a good night." This shout will be given on<BR>termination of General Claus' visit. Uniformity of shouting is<BR>the responsibility of division chiefs.<BR><BR>/S/ CHRISTOPHER K. RINGLE, Colonel, USAF OIC, Special Services<BR><BR>DISTRIBUTION: Everybody Who Still Believes (Slightly changed from<BR>Army to Air Force)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 07:44:49<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3417<BR><BR>At 01:48 AM 12/19/2000 -0600, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;I've only seen clips of "Alexander Nevsky" on public TV. It struck me as<BR>the &gt;Russian version of "Birth of a Nation"...but what do I know. I prefer <BR>&gt;light-hearted comedies and rousing adventures where the good guys win. <BR>&gt;Serious I get on the TML.<BR><BR>See it.&nbsp; It is a masterpiece.<BR><BR>It is also humorous to watch a Soviet film director try to portray a hero<BR>who was in fact a class-oppreessor.&nbsp; They sort of skirt around the issue.<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 08:46:14 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: Those Damn French :) <BR><BR>&gt;From: Ethan Henry &lt;ethan.henry@sitraka.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Those Damn French :) <BR>...<BR>&gt;You mean the same cheese-eating monkeys that financed the American <BR>&gt;War of Independence?<BR><BR>&nbsp; You mean that some of you actually know these things? :&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; Still, they _are_ the French...&nbsp; :)<BR><BR>No wonder everyone hates Americans - what a bunch<BR>&gt;of ingrates. Sheesh.-----<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 08:48:47 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR>...<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; But, without our support, the war would never have been won, Doug.<BR>&gt;Remember, in North Africa alone, the American did in 3 months to Romell's<BR>&gt;Africa Korps what the Brits did in three years.&nbsp; They also turned the tide<BR>&gt;of the Battle for North Africa.&nbsp; Without the US, D-Day would never have<BR>&gt;happened, nor would the invasion of Italy.&nbsp; Yes, we fought along side them,<BR>&gt;but Ike was the Overall CO, &amp; we supplied them with everything.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &lt;giggle&gt; Are you trying for "ignorance is bliss", "ignorance is<BR>strength", or both? In any case, you're _really_ over-doing it...<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 11:48:50 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: (OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR><BR>At 8:52 AM -0700 12/19/00, J. Paul Sanders wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Please bear in mind that 'Legates' claim to being an American are likely<BR>&gt;just as tenuous as his past claims of being a 1) Jewish Terrorist, 2)<BR>&gt;Scottish Highlander, or 3) Spy/Secret Agent Man (take your pick)... :)<BR>&gt;Before you give his flame-baiting more than a passing thought, consider the<BR>&gt;source and instead of nurturing his delusions by way of serious debate,<BR>&gt;rather urge him to resume taking his medication(s).<BR><BR>But come on, kids, he's always going to be our favorite fwuffy wittle <BR>bunny-poo in the end.<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 11:52:00 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Filkin' Tom Waits<BR><BR>At 2:43 AM -0500 12/19/00, Glenn Grant wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;(Oi! Kenj, you didn't see my XTC and Talking Heads filks, did you? <BR>&gt;I'll send 'em off-list.&nbsp; I think you saw the Ramones take, yes?)<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Ahhhh... fine stuff.&nbsp; With substantial lyrics and a real tune behind <BR>it!&nbsp; Intimidating stuff.<BR><BR>Talking Heads?&nbsp; Ramones?&nbsp; No, I missed these :(&nbsp; Please send them <BR>over to me, or point me off to where I can find them!<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:49:47 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Damn, it's a big country! (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground F orces))<BR><BR>Ooh, I gotta remember that one!<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Frank G. Pitt [mailto:frankie@mundens.gen.nz]<BR>&gt; Sent: 18 December 2000 06:21<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Damn, it's a big country! (was Re: Naming laws <BR>&gt; (was: Ground<BR>&gt; Forces))<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Jeff Zeitlin wrote :<BR>&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;Heck, we spent *hours* at highway speed inside each *state*.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Houston TX to El Paso TX is London to Vienna.&nbsp; London to <BR>&gt; Glasgow is NYC to<BR>&gt; &gt; Buffalo NY.&nbsp; Brownsville TX to Duluth MN is London to Moscow.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; As someone once said, an Engishman thinks 100 miles is a long <BR>&gt; way, and an<BR>&gt; American thinks 100 years is a long time.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Frankie<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 11:51:58 -0500<BR>From: Glenn Myers &lt;glenn.myers@ansys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: OT-Chris Bunch "Last Legion" Series?<BR><BR>Has anybody read this yet? What did you think? Travish, or not? I picked up<BR>the entire Sten series on the recommendation of the TML and loved it. Allen<BR>Cole was coauthor though and I've never cared for the fantasy titles Bunch<BR>has turned out by himself.<BR><BR>Bye,<BR><BR>Glenn<BR>(looking for some holiday reading material)<BR>______________________________________________________<BR><BR>Glenn E. Myers<BR>ANSYS Inc.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Email: glenn.myers@ansys.com<BR>275 Technology Drive&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Phone: (724) 514-2913<BR>Canonsburg, PA 15317&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Fax:&nbsp;&nbsp; (724) 514-3118<BR>______________________________________________________<BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 11:53:20 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3417<BR><BR>At 7:12 PM -0500 12/18/00, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Of course, if you have ever watched<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Eisenstein's Alexander Nevsky, your take on the Teutonic Knights might be a<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; bit jaundiced...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Those are the guys in the white robes with the buckets over their heads?<BR><BR>The Nazis in beta, yes.<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:53:02 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; OTOH, even if the government only did collect from those who<BR>&gt; voluntarily joined certain religions, this would equally run<BR>&gt; counter to what Americans would consider acceptable for their<BR>&gt; government.&nbsp; Here the question of why is the government acting<BR>&gt; as any sort of collection agency for religions would come up.<BR>&gt; Thus, it is an example of how the American experience is<BR>&gt; different from the European one....<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>The British TV licence is another. I can still scarcely credit that I have<BR>to pay 100 a year for the privelidge of owning a television :)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 15:10:35 +0000<BR>From: Rob Day &lt;Rob@glisten.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Vilani Word list needed<BR><BR>The way it worked, at least for the stuff I did - which was probably<BR>most of the 'unnatural' stuff Kenji refers to, is that I had a boring<BR>job at the time, and idle hands plus the shiny new Vilani word generator<BR>that I'd just written led to me thinking of a subject (e.g. periodic<BR>table or office stationery) and then cranking away at the generator<BR>until the Trav Cult list started to dribble with the vocab overload.<BR><BR>Loren, if you haven't got answers yet for the words you requested, let<BR>me know and I'll come up with something meaningful (not just random<BR>words from the generator :o)<BR><BR>Rob.<BR><BR>PS. I made all the Trav Cult files available on the web for people to<BR>take as and when they wanted. Rather embarrassingly (considering that<BR>it's my own site), I've forgotten the exact URL to get to them - I<BR>vaguely remember deliberately not linking to them from the main part of<BR>the site :o/ If anyone's interested then I'll dig it out and post it.<BR><BR>&gt;Hm... interesting.&nbsp; Due to the unnatural way that the Vilani <BR>&gt;vocabulary list was developed, we do have a complete periodic table <BR>&gt;(including theoretical elements), a ton of military ranks, and lists <BR>&gt;of still-unidentified cooking apparatus and office hardware. <BR>&gt;However, most of these obviously useless terms have not yet been <BR>&gt;found in Vilani.&nbsp; On the other hand, we have painfully large numbers <BR>&gt;of synonyms for those that do exist.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;For "sea":&nbsp; danak, gar<BR>&gt;For "ocean":&nbsp; kamnam, ar<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;I need some kind soul to send me the URL for the Vilani dictionary that<BR>&gt;&gt;Kenji at al. have been working on. Specifically, I need words for "island"<BR>&gt;&gt;"islands" "continent" "archipelago" "peninsula" "ocean" and "sea"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 09:12:59 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Seas of LOX<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson writes:<BR><BR>&gt; Nope. Helium won't freeze except under 26 atmospheres of pressure, even<BR>&gt; at -272.2 C (0.95 K). The "zero point" motion required by the<BR>&gt; uncertainty principle is enough to keep it liquid otherwise.<BR><BR>However, it may be unlikely for the helium to coalesce onto a planet -- the<BR>planet needs to be large enough that helium can't escape at the temperature<BR>the planet will be while forming, and I'm not sure that's possible without <BR>being a gas giant.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:37:24 -0500<BR>From: Kurt Feltenberger &lt;kurt@blazenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT-Chris Bunch "Last Legion" Series?<BR><BR>At 11:51 AM 12/19/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>&gt;Has anybody read this yet? What did you think? Travish, or not? I picked up<BR>&gt;the entire Sten series on the recommendation of the TML and loved it. Allen<BR>&gt;Cole was coauthor though and I've never cared for the fantasy titles Bunch<BR>&gt;has turned out by himself.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Bye,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Glenn<BR>&gt;(looking for some holiday reading material)<BR><BR>I just got Blackhawk Down, a detail on the operations in Somalia.&nbsp; I figure <BR>that in addition to the historical aspect, it would be a good example of a <BR>higher tech force encountering a lower tech force in a limited violence <BR>scenario.<BR><BR>Kurt Feltenberger<BR><BR>"To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; may she always be in the right, but our country, right or wrong!"<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ~Stephen Decatur<BR><BR><BR>mailto:kurt@blazenet.net<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3427<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3428</B></TD></TR>
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<TD vAlign=top width="10%">Date: </TD>
<TD>12/19/00 12:03:43 PM Pacific Standard Time</TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, December 19 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3428<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Odd weapons question<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3426<BR>Re: Odd weapons question<BR>RE: OT-Chris Bunch "Last Legion" Series?<BR>RE: OT-Chris Bunch "Last Legion" Series?<BR>Re: Those Damn French :)<BR>Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: passport application<BR>Re: passport application<BR>RE: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: YTU and MTU and the OTU, oh my (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR>Re: Vilani Word list needed<BR>Traveller related (really!!)<BR>Re: YTU and MTU and the OTU, oh my (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>Another First<BR>Re: Traveller related (really!!)<BR>Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR>Re: Finnish and American RPGs<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>RE: The New Traveller Task System<BR>Noble vs Military rank (was: Traveller related (really!!))<BR>Re: YTU and MTU and the OTU, oh my (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>RE: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising Each O ther in General<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 09:40:14 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Odd weapons question<BR><BR>John Groth writes:<BR>&gt; Not trivial.&nbsp; Calculating where one laser should point to have a decent<BR>&gt; chance of hitting an enemy ship _somewhere_ is far simpler than<BR>&gt; calculating where multiple lasers should point to hit an enemy ship<BR>&gt; _simultaneously at the exact same point_.<BR><BR>Actually, no.&nbsp; It's much easier to hit another beam (whose position you already<BR>know) than to hit a manuever ship (whose position you don't know).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; But Traveller space combat often takes place at ranges of one light<BR>&gt; second or more.&nbsp; At those ranges, a minor shift one way or another will<BR>&gt; keep those multiple laser beams from focusing _simultaneously at the<BR>&gt; exact same point_.<BR><BR>Huh?&nbsp; Range has nothing to do with it.<BR><BR>&gt; (BTW, I keep stressing the idea that multiple lasers must hit the target<BR>&gt; "simultaneously at the exact same point" because multiple lasers that<BR>&gt; hit the target at different points or times can not be expected to add<BR>&gt; to each other's penetration (the apparent point of the original<BR>&gt; question).<BR><BR>I know.&nbsp; You just seem to overestimate how hard that is to do.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 18:42:10 +0100 (MET)<BR>From: flow523@gmx.de<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3426<BR><BR>&gt; From: Hans Rancke-Madsen &lt;rancke@diku.dk&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;Also, this means that fleets would wind up *more* scattered than they<BR>&gt; do.&gt; &gt;Because every ship would come out at a different spot relative to<BR>the&gt; &gt;planet, depending on how long it was in jump, rather than staying in<BR>&gt; &gt;more or less the same spot relative to the rest of the fleet and just<BR>&gt; &gt;coming out at a different time.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; That's a third case, one where the astrogators wanted to emerge more or<BR>&gt; less in<BR>&gt; the same spot regardless of time elapsed. So the astrogators took that<BR>&gt; into<BR>&gt; account. I'm not saying that you CAN'T aim for a particular spot; I'm<BR>&gt; just<BR>&gt; saying that you CAN do otherwise.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>So, rules-wise, you could make a second roll (1st roll=Do I successfully<BR>reach jump space?) to determine one of two factors: time and space.<BR>If you roll for the space factor you can determine the exact reentry point<BR>into normal space. The exact exactness is determined by the amount by which<BR>the roll succeeded. (11=succeeded but 100,000km removed; 15=succeeded and<BR>on mark). <BR>You can handle time likewise: make another roll, where (11=3d6hours+seven<BR>days; 15=seven days straight; 18=six days straight - or something).<BR><BR>In each case, the other factor would have to be determined by chance. <BR><BR>So, if you want to stage a race across the sector, your teams will have to<BR>decide wether to use the space tactic (for ships with low maneuver power)<BR>or the time tactic (for people with big drives). <BR><BR>What do you think?<BR><BR>Flow<BR>www.iFlow.de<BR><BR><BR>- -- <BR>Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change.<BR><BR>Sent through GMX FreeMail - http://www.gmx.net<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 09:45:56 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Odd weapons question<BR><BR>Bruce Macintosh writes:<BR><BR>&gt; You need to know the range to your target very precisely (if the<BR>&gt; laser spots are 10 cm across at the target and the lasers are<BR>&gt; separated by 100m, you need to know the range to the target<BR>&gt; to within 1%), but this might not be a problem with active sensors.<BR><BR>If you can hit with a meson gun, you know range to a few tens of meters, which<BR>is plenty to hit.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; It wouldn't work with grav lasers - in that case the size of the laser<BR>&gt; spot is much smaller than the pointing accuracy of the laser, since<BR>&gt; the grav focus makes the spot size so small. Probably wouldn't<BR>&gt; work with x-ray lasers for similar reasons. No reason it wouldn't<BR>&gt; work with non-xray lasers.<BR><BR>Hm...I can easily see this for grav focus lasers, but I don't see why this<BR>would be true for x-ray lasers -- they still need to actively reshape the <BR>mirror to focus down to a point, which means they need accuracy (in terms of<BR>shaping the mirror) comparable to the final spot size.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Note that under FFS-type rules, for a non-armoured target this is<BR>&gt; inefficient; better to hit the target with lots of little lasers than one<BR>&gt; big one, generally.<BR><BR>Yes, true; it's generally true on the system I'm working on as well.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 11:48:25 -0600<BR>From: "Smart, David J (David)" &lt;dasmart@avaya.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: OT-Chris Bunch "Last Legion" Series?<BR><BR>Glenn Myers posted:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Has anybody read this yet? What did you think? Travish, or <BR>&gt; not? I picked up<BR>&gt; the entire Sten series on the recommendation of the TML and <BR>&gt; loved it. Allen<BR>&gt; Cole was coauthor though and I've never cared for the fantasy <BR>&gt; titles Bunch<BR>&gt; has turned out by himself.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Bye,<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Glenn<BR>&gt; (looking for some holiday reading material)<BR><BR>I'm finishing the first book today and have found it to be for<BR>a less mature reader (like 15 years old) than the Sten series.<BR>It's pure mind candy not in the same league as the Sten books.<BR>Character development is shallow and the first book has some <BR>sex scenes bordering on soft porn which have nothing to do <BR>with the plot (I've read better and found the disconnect with<BR>the plot rather annoying).<BR><BR>Personally, I'd recommend going with some of S.M. Sterling's<BR>books or something by David Drake ("The General" series is<BR>*awesome* though I'm not sure it's by Drake) or Keith Laumer.<BR><BR>David<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:53:33 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: OT-Chris Bunch "Last Legion" Series?<BR><BR>David Smart wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I'm finishing the first book today and have found it to be for<BR>&gt; a less mature reader (like 15 years old) than the Sten series.<BR>&gt; It's pure mind candy not in the same league as the Sten books.<BR>&gt; Character development is shallow and the first book has some <BR>&gt; sex scenes bordering on soft porn which have nothing to do <BR>&gt; with the plot (I've read better and found the disconnect with<BR>&gt; the plot rather annoying).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Personally, I'd recommend going with some of S.M. Sterling's<BR>&gt; books or something by David Drake ("The General" series is<BR>&gt; *awesome* though I'm not sure it's by Drake) or Keith Laumer.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Definately...I'm intrigued by 'On the Symb-socket Circuit'...an interesting<BR>approach to survival on alien planets<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 13:09:45 -0500<BR>From: Ethan Henry &lt;ethan.henry@sitraka.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Those Damn French :)<BR><BR>shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson) wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;You mean the same cheese-eating monkeys that financed the American<BR>&gt; &gt;War of Independence?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; You mean that some of you actually know these things? :&gt;<BR><BR>"Some of you" who? You mean some of us people in Toronto?<BR><BR>Sure I knew it. I learned it on the TML after all. Frighteningly<BR>enough, I have learned a lot of real-world history from the TML<BR>over the past many years (this is my, ugh, 5th, 6th year on the<BR>TML?). 'Horaez et cie' and what have you (poor spelling excepted).<BR><BR>Anyway, back to work in Canada's Capital.<BR><BR>Ethan<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 18:23:01 GMT<BR>From: TML@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>Subject: Re: Those Damn French :) was Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net writes:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;saying, "Millions for Defense, but not a penny in Tribute".<BR><BR>&gt;It was Jefferson that said it, I think, and it was about the Barbary<BR>&gt;Pirates IIRC.&nbsp; <BR><BR>It was actually John Marshall, President Adams' envoy to France in<BR>1797-8.&nbsp; French privateers had been attacking American shipping;<BR>Marshall and his colleagues had been sent to negotiate an end to this.<BR>Instead, they were greeted with demands for humiliating concessions<BR>and outright bribes.&nbsp; When this became public knowledge, there was a<BR>huge outcry, negotiations were broken off, and the US Navy was<BR>expanded from one ship to 54.&nbsp; Marshall made the comment on his<BR>triumphal return to the US at the height of this controversy.<BR><BR>Stephen<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 13:32:07 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: passport application<BR><BR>At 3:42 PM -0800 12/18/00, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;You should complain *loudly* to your Congressman and Senators.<BR><BR>Sure... pity I spent so much time complaining loudly about them already ;)<BR><BR><BR>&gt;interesting privileges (and make him a target for certain types of<BR>&gt;problems).<BR><BR>Moi?&nbsp; Target? Moi???&nbsp; Well, it's nice to be wanted.<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 13:38:31 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: passport application<BR><BR>At 4:15 PM -0800 12/18/00, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Seriously, I think you need to talk to a lawyer. They *don't* have the<BR>&gt;right to force you to put your life on hold while they "investigate".<BR>&gt;Making you unable to work (to name but one effect) isn't something they<BR>&gt;can do for any great period of time without compensating you.<BR><BR>In brief, yes, I had a leap of lawyers on this right away.&nbsp; Forcing <BR>the DOS to make an immediate decision would be a) extremely <BR>expensive, b) not necessarily possible, and c) could well influence <BR>their decision in a non-positive way ;)&nbsp; Fortunately, I'm all about <BR>patience.<BR><BR>&gt;Keep in mind that there's a *lot* of awareness out there these days<BR>&gt;regarding the way the bureacrats are abusing citizens over this sort of<BR>&gt;thing.<BR><BR>Ah, but am I a citizen, or a sly &amp; selfish alien?<BR><BR>Wait a sec -- just shut the hell up, all of you. I don't know what <BR>all might get supoenaed before this is all over.<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 20:37:59 +0200 (EET)<BR>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>On Tue, 19 Dec 2000, Jones, Dean wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; OTOH, even if the government only did collect from those who<BR>&gt; &gt; voluntarily joined certain religions, this would equally run<BR>&gt; &gt; counter to what Americans would consider acceptable for their<BR>&gt; &gt; government.&nbsp; Here the question of why is the government acting<BR>&gt; &gt; as any sort of collection agency for religions would come up.<BR>&gt; &gt; Thus, it is an example of how the American experience is<BR>&gt; &gt; different from the European one....<BR>&gt; The British TV licence is another. I can still scarcely credit that I have<BR>&gt; to pay 100 a year for the privelidge of owning a television :)<BR><BR>TV licence (presumably a European invention) probably goes into funding<BR>the BBC. At least in Finland, it is for Yleisradio, our (at least for now)<BR>government operated radio and TV company. <BR><BR>And yes, our government-owned TV stations have the most trusted news, and<BR>other programs. I have heard this is difficult for Americans to believe.<BR>B-)<BR><BR>These channels criticize our government more than the commercial channels.<BR>Commercial channels concentrate on getting most viewers with least costs,<BR>and this usually means cheap Finnish shows or imported US series.<BR><BR>So, for now I don't watch TV. (Except for Futurama and South Park...)<BR><BR>It is also true that no students pay the TV licence. This seems to be a<BR>matter of principle, because many of my student friends earn some 15000<BR>FIM a month...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>+++++++++[&gt;+++++++++&lt;-]&gt;-.&lt;+++++[&gt;+++&lt;-]++&gt;++.&lt;++[&gt;++++&lt;-]+&gt;+.&lt;++[&gt;----<BR>&lt;-]&gt;-.&gt;+++[&gt;++++++++++&lt;-]++&gt;++pare@iki.fi&lt;+[&gt;++++&lt;-]&gt;+.-&gt;+[&gt;++++[&lt;&lt;---&gt;<BR>&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;.&gt;&gt;+++++++[&lt;++++++++++&gt;-]++++[&lt;+++++&gt;-]&lt;-.&gt;[-]&gt;+++[&gt;++[&lt;&lt;&lt;----&gt;&gt;<BR>&lt;&gt;&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;&lt;.+.&gt;[-]++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;.++.[-]&gt;[-]++++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;++.&gt;&gt;++[&gt;++[&gt;-&lt;-]&lt;--]<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:39:05 -0600<BR>From: Eris Reddoch &lt;eris@pcola.gulf.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: YTU and MTU and the OTU, oh my (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Eris writes:<BR>&gt; &gt;Not canon perhaps, but of course that doesn't matter to me, but IMTU<BR>&gt; &gt;jump duration does alter time to mainworld.&nbsp; To give an example of<BR>&gt; &gt;something liek this...if the mainworld and it's system is moving at<BR>&gt; &gt;30 km/s, then each hour early or late moves the ship 108 000 km away<BR>&gt; &gt;from it's optimal entry point.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Eris, I wouldn't dream of telling you what you can or cannot do IYTU, but I must<BR>&gt; confess that I'm not terribly interested in discussing it. Nothing personal, I'm<BR>&gt; not terribly interested in discussing anyone's TU but my own and the OTU. The<BR>&gt; whole concept of canon is pretty meaningless unless applied to one particular<BR>&gt; universe.<BR><BR>Hans, if you don't want to read what I write, don't read it. If<BR>you don't want to reply to what I write, don't reply. I won't be<BR>upset by your lack of response. Like you I'd never dream of<BR>telling you what you can or cannot do in a TU, and please rest<BR>assured that I'm not going to tell you what you should or should<BR>not post here, either.&nbsp; Personally, as long as posts are polite<BR>and generally on topic, I wouldn't call for anyone to stop<BR>posting. Rob can, if he so chooses. Fair warning, unless Rob does<BR>so choose, I don't intend to stop posting my thoughts about<BR>Traveller to this list.<BR><BR>&gt; Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that I'm not interested in hearing about<BR>&gt; other peoples' TUs. I am. I'm just not interested in discussing them, because I<BR>&gt; feel such discussions to be irresolvable and ultimately futile. Any discussion<BR>&gt; that isn't based on common axioms is futile and any discussion whare either part<BR>&gt; can void an axiom by saying "That's how it is IMTU" is not worth the effort.<BR><BR>Hans, IMO the basic axioms that make Traveller, Traveller, are<BR>(1) Interstellar communications is the same speed as travel and<BR>(2) Jump covers 1 to 6 parsecs and takes about 1 week regardless<BR>of distance. That's about it. You can play Traveller with or<BR>without magic thrusters, fusion, gravitics, or the Imperium. You<BR>can play Traveller in pre-generated starmaps with published<BR>backgrounds or among stars you create on the spot. You can still<BR>be playing Traveller if Stephron never existed, computers are big<BR>hulking boxes or the size of a walnut. You can still be playing<BR>Traveller if you don't crack open *any* published material<BR>authorized by GDW or Marc Miller. If you don't agree, then that's<BR>your opinion, and you are welcome to it. IAC, I am as little<BR>interested in discussing this particular subject with you as you<BR>probably are in discussing it with me.<BR><BR>No, I'm not going to argue about canon, holy writ, or axioms for<BR>a game with you either. If you don't know how I feel about<BR>people's blind religious devotion to such by now, you'll never<BR>know. But, unlike some people, I am tolerate. It doesn't bother<BR>me for that sort to tie up bandwidth arguing chapter and verse<BR>from conflicting "holy books."&nbsp; I don't accept that their<BR>interpretations of every jot and tittle of their published<BR>scripture are anything more than their interpretations, no better<BR>or worse than anyone else's, no more "official" or less<BR>official...except in their own games, but why waste time arguing<BR>over something like that.&nbsp; For the sake of their blood pressure,<BR>and mine, I don't even argue over their usurpation of the acronym<BR>OTU, and what it implies.&nbsp; Being tolerate and accepting of<BR>varying viewpoints doesn't mean being silent, and I'm not going<BR>to stop posting my comments about Traveller to the list.<BR><BR>&gt; Of course, if someone starts out a discussion by stating just how his TU<BR>&gt; diffiers from the OTU, I might enjoy discussing the ramifications. But<BR>&gt; otherwise, unless I specifically say otherwise, I'm always referring to the OTU<BR>&gt; (or the GTU).<BR><BR>Once again, I'll write, if anyone, including Hans, hasn't<BR>realized that I don't believe in a holy writ of Traveller canon<BR>by now, I doubt they will every realize it, but I'll never call<BR>for people to stop discussing their views of the Traveller<BR>universe on their list just because I don't agree with those<BR>views. <BR><BR>When I post about Traveller I am always posting about A TU, not<BR>some mythical O TU, sometimes it is A TU similar to that in<BR>published sources, sometimes it is not. For the sake of the<BR>Caonists, I generally include an IMTU disclaimer when I post<BR>something that even remotely differs from their view of the TU.<BR>If you re-read what Hans' included of my post you'll see I did<BR>this time too. <BR><BR>IAC, if anyone is offended or bored by what I write here, I offer<BR>them the delete key on their keyboard. I believe all of your<BR>keyboards come with one, and if you haven't quite figured out how<BR>to use it feel free to practice on my posts, and once you get the<BR>hang of that, you can start learning about filters and kill<BR>files. I plan to give you plenty of practice, because I'm not<BR>going to stop posting comments to the list.<BR><BR>Now!&nbsp; <BR><BR>If a system is moving at *60 kps* and you jump for a specific<BR>point in that system with a vector matched in direction and<BR>velocity for that point, and you arrive 4 hours later than your<BR>calculated time, you will arrive roughly 800,000 km from your<BR>target. The difference in time for such a minor variance isn't<BR>large, a few hours only.&nbsp;&nbsp; That's *one* logical outcome, but not<BR>the *only* logical outcome. If you don't like this one, pick<BR>another.<BR><BR>Eris,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; for those who are new here, this is why I'm called The<BR>Heretic<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 13:40:23 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR><BR>At 10:27 PM -0800 12/18/00, Steven Hudson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;armed lander designs (albeit for GURPS) in honor of Pvt. Hudson.&nbsp; The<BR>&gt;&gt;designer, whoever it was, gets a round of applause from this corner.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Actually, IIRC those are named for Kommissar Hudson, who as one of<BR>&gt;the more demented miniatures war-gamers in the Traveller Socialist<BR>&gt;Conspiracy suggested the idea one afternoon at the art gallery cafe.<BR><BR><BR>Oh ;(&nbsp; Oops.&nbsp; Well, good work, in any case!<BR><BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 13:45:13 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Vilani Word list needed<BR><BR>At 3:10 PM +0000 12/19/00, Rob Day wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;The way it worked, at least for the stuff I did - which was probably<BR>&gt;most of the 'unnatural' stuff Kenji refers to, is that I had a boring<BR>&gt;job at the time, and idle hands plus the shiny new Vilani word generator<BR>&gt;that I'd just written led to me thinking of a subject (e.g. periodic<BR>&gt;table or office stationery) and then cranking away at the generator<BR>&gt;until the Trav Cult list started to dribble with the vocab overload.<BR><BR>It was great stuff!&nbsp; I just need more time (even now) to digest it <BR>all and see what's missing, weed out some of the unneeded duplicates, <BR>that kind of thing.&nbsp; Honest, its unnaturalness wasn't a problem!<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:47:31 -0800<BR>From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Traveller related (really!!)<BR><BR>Noble vs. military rank.<BR><BR>Here's a question that been bugging me.&nbsp; (Doug, I'd particularly like to<BR>hear your thoughts).<BR><BR>How does the 3I handle disparity of rank in the military.&nbsp; What I mean is,<BR>how does one handle a situation, say, where a non-noble colonel has command<BR>of a captain who also happens to be Marquis of Valhalla (or whatever).&nbsp; Are<BR>there formal rules and regulations to deal with this, or just custom.<BR><BR>Specifically, how does one maintain unity of command in this situation?<BR><BR>Thanks,&nbsp; Tod<BR>- ----<BR>When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.<BR>- ----<BR>Tod Glenn<BR>webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.travellerguns.com<BR>http://www.solsec.org<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:49:22 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: YTU and MTU and the OTU, oh my (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>Doesn't matter whether it's YTU, MTU or the OTU.&nbsp; Discussions on any<BR>one of these TU can lead to insights into other TU.&nbsp; I love hearing how<BR>people attempt to explain certain ignored, but problematic, aspects of<BR>Traveller; it often gets the juices flowing.<BR><BR>Write on, old fellow, write on.<BR><BR>=====<BR>Gerry Harris<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.<BR>http://shopping.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:51:04 -0600<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Another First<BR><BR>Check out the Milieu: 0 Aid Society (see sigfile). I just put up my first <BR>Who's Who entry. I hope you guys like it.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>Administrator of the Milieu: 0 Aid Society<BR>http://members.nbci.com/cheebzero/trav_index.htm<BR>_________________________________________________________________<BR>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 13:22:03 -0600<BR>From: "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" &lt;sdaniels@playnet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller related (really!!)<BR><BR>Tod Glenn wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Noble vs. military rank.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Here's a question that been bugging me.&nbsp; (Doug, I'd particularly like to<BR>&gt; hear your thoughts).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; How does the 3I handle disparity of rank in the military.&nbsp; What I mean is,<BR>&gt; how does one handle a situation, say, where a non-noble colonel has command<BR>&gt; of a captain who also happens to be Marquis of Valhalla (or whatever).&nbsp; Are<BR>&gt; there formal rules and regulations to deal with this, or just custom.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Specifically, how does one maintain unity of command in this situation?<BR><BR>Check out Ground Forces and the toilet-scrubbing E2 Marine<BR>Baron Of Castie.<BR><BR>The colonel commands the captain, but the captain gets<BR>invited to the swank parties.<BR><BR>bloo<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 18:49:43 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta):&nbsp; Dune novel<BR><BR>At 08:53 -0500 17/12/00,&nbsp;&nbsp; "Trent Smith" &lt;trentfs@ix.netcom.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; 'The Left Hand of Darkness'<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Don't know this one either...can you enlighten me to this one?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;Early contact with a Minor Human Race (to use Trav-equivalent terminology)<BR>&gt;with a radically different notion of gender (neuter most of the time,<BR>&gt;periodically taking both roles).&nbsp; Before reading this, I feared it was going<BR>&gt;to be a dry feminist-politic manifesto but, to my pleasant surprise, it has<BR>&gt;engaging characters, a very good story, and the scientific extrapolations<BR>&gt;(albeit in areas of sociology, psychology, and 'gender studies' rather than<BR>&gt;the typical "hard" sciences) are both extensive and reasoned.&nbsp; Also, Ursula<BR>&gt;LeGuin writes in a very literate and "modern" (without being pretentious or<BR>&gt;overbearing) style which was (and still is) quite rare in SF -- this is the<BR>&gt;best combination of "good writing" and "good SF" I've ever come across.<BR><BR>I picked up new copies of the 'Left Hand of Darkness' and another <BR>LeGuin book last month for less than a quid. They look good (and I <BR>know I like LeGuin's writing after the Earthsea Quartet and others).<BR><BR>If you like reasonably literate SF about first contact you could try:<BR><BR>"Golden WitchBreed" and "Ancient Light" by Mary Gentle<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 19:01:36 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Finnish and American RPGs<BR><BR>At 18:34 -0500 17/12/00, "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;Actually, saying that there is actually an American culture is at best<BR>&gt;misleading and at worst completely wrong. American "Culture" is really just<BR>&gt;a harmonious blend of (just about) every culture in the world. That's why<BR>&gt;"American Culture" rules. It's because it's so diverse. It's not one, but<BR>&gt;many.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Like the Third Imperium.<BR><BR>Funnily enough, I think I'd prefer to live in the Zhodani Consulate <BR>or in the Solomani Confederation to the Third Imperium. ;-)<BR><BR><BR>&gt;In conclusion, it's no more right or wrong for someone to say "I'm proud to<BR>&gt;be an American" as to say "I'm proud to be Finnish", or "I'm proud to be<BR>&gt;Japanese", etc.<BR><BR>Correct.<BR><BR>But, in my opinion, it is wrong to preach at others that they are <BR>wrong about their own culture in a generally obnoxious and xenophobic <BR>manner. Which has been seen here from some.<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 19:17:07 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>At 01:15 -0500 18/12/00,&nbsp; "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;ObTrav:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;Our local gaming store (the only one worth the name in Finland) got BITS<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;books a couple of weeks ago. They seem to be very useful, I bought 101<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;Religions and 101 Governments for starters. It is nice to have full<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;service stores, and friends who know people running them...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;That it is.. I wish we'd get the BITS books in stores over here.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Same here.&nbsp; I talked to my FLGS, "The Imperial Outpost", &amp; they cannot<BR>&gt;get anything from BITS in.<BR><BR>Tell them to contact 'Mystic Station Designs' who distribute for us <BR>in the US. They could also approach SJG and see if they would do a <BR>trade deal.<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 19:23:39 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: The New Traveller Task System<BR><BR>At 09:54 -0500 18/12/00,&nbsp; Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; I'm a big fan of 2d6 + modifiers.&nbsp; It's Traveller's core<BR>&gt; &gt; mechanic, and there are no good reasons why it shouldn't be<BR>&gt; &gt; the core mechanic for the task system.<BR>&gt; &gt; Dice-pool systems are so late-80s, and an intrusive mechanic as well.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; - Rob.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Errr... does it matter when a system originated...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;You could just as easily say "2d6 + Modifiers, that's so 70's"...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Still, Maths eh?... so Greek...<BR><BR>Actually, some dice pool rules are 2d6 games. It's just the modifiers <BR>are more dice ;-)<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 11:46:58 -0800<BR>From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Noble vs Military rank (was: Traveller related (really!!))<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Noble vs. military rank.<BR>&gt; &gt; Specifically, how does one maintain unity of command in this situation?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Check out Ground Forces and the toilet-scrubbing E2 Marine<BR>&gt; Baron Of Castie.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The colonel commands the captain, but the captain gets<BR>&gt; invited to the swank parties.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>That's the theory, anyway.&nbsp; The reality may be that the Captain's uncle is<BR>Duke of Blauvelt and is good pals with the General (and dotes on his<BR>nephew). The captain doesn't get along with his CO, and mentions the fact to<BR>uncle Bob. Uncle Bob chat's with the general (who, after all is just a fithy<BR>commoner) about how he's treating the captain.&nbsp; See how this can get ugly.<BR><BR>So the question again is:&nbsp; does the 3I have formal regulations for dealing<BR>with this?&nbsp; Who enforces the rules.&nbsp; If military rank carries the day, how<BR>does the nobility retain is privilidged status?<BR><BR>Tod<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 11:51:29 -0800<BR>From: Gordon Horne &lt;gordon.horne@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: YTU and MTU and the OTU, oh my (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>&gt;[snip] I'm<BR>&gt;not terribly interested in discussing anyone's TU but my own and the OTU. The<BR>&gt;whole concept of canon is pretty meaningless unless applied to one particular<BR>&gt;universe.<BR><BR>Unfortunately there are no common axioms in the OTU. (How do ships <BR>move? Who's alive, who's dead and who's in charge? Where are all <BR>those planets that were in edition X? Do K'kree taste better with <BR>B'barbeque sauce or Ch'chutney?)<BR><BR>&gt;[snip]I'm always referring to the OTU<BR>&gt;(or the GTU).<BR>&gt;<BR>&nbsp; There! See! 8^)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; g<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 14:54:49 -0500<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising Each O ther in General<BR><BR>&gt;which is why the<BR>&gt; &gt; military continued<BR>&gt; &gt; to obey the most despised commander in chief in American history.<BR>&gt;Tricky Dicky, right?<BR><BR>Err...no.&nbsp; That title belongs to President BJC.<BR>Focus on the CinC part.<BR>Even without that, there is a significant section of the US population that <BR>rates<BR>President William Jefferson (i.e. Billy Jeff) Clinton lower than President <BR>Nixon.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>Opinions should be yours too! -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>"Tension, apprehension and dissension have begun." -- Alfred Bester<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3428<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3429</B></TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, December 19 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3429<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: YTU and MTU and the OTU, oh my (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>Re: Those Damn French :) <BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Odd weapons question<BR>Re: Odd weapons question<BR>Noble vs. military rank.<BR>Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help onCT&nbsp;&nbsp; task)<BR>Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR>Re: BITS adventures...<BR>RE: (OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR>Re: Noble vs Military rank (was: Traveller related (really!!))<BR>Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of DespisingEach O ther in&nbsp; General<BR>Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR>Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR>Re: Odd weapons question<BR>Re: Reft sector X-boat link<BR>Re: Seas of LOX<BR>Re: OT-Chris Bunch "Last Legion" Series?<BR>Re: Skill Inflation (was Re: (1) KB3 Traveller System (Playtest))<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:07:17 -0800<BR>From: "Evyn MacDude" &lt;gayle118@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: YTU and MTU and the OTU, oh my (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>From: "Gordon Horne" &lt;gordon.horne@home.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; ? Do K'kree taste better with <BR>&gt; B'barbeque sauce or Ch'chutney?)<BR><BR>I'm a Que man my self....<BR><BR>But roast Eneri with chutney sounds intresting.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 15:13:32 -0500<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Those Damn French :) <BR><BR>shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson) puts into the Ether:<BR>&gt; &gt;From: Ethan Henry &lt;ethan.henry@sitraka.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Subject: Re: Those Damn French :)<BR>&gt;...<BR>&gt; &gt;You mean the same cheese-eating monkeys that financed the American<BR>&gt; &gt;War of Independence?<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; You mean that some of you actually know these things? :&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Still, they _are_ the French...&nbsp; :)<BR><BR>If we didn't feel this way toward the French, then the French would <BR>absolutely no respect for us. :-}<BR><BR><BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>"We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued<BR>other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and<BR>rifle their pockets for new vocabulary." - James D. Nicoll<BR>http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 11:52:59 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; On 12/18/00 at 03:15 PM,&nbsp; shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;No, they steal *that* from Oregon. :-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Hey!&nbsp; We pay for ever watt!&nbsp; (I'm looking at our PG&amp;E [Pacific Graft and<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Extortion] bill as i write..)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Maybe. The question is, do they pay what it's worth?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Also, hate to tell you this, but if we get a bad cold snap up here<BR>&gt;&gt;we *won't* be able to send you guys "extra" power this year. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Won't *that* be fun!&nbsp; You think they'll "come after it" like they did when <BR>&gt; they were threatened with water shortages?<BR><BR>Slight problem. To do that. they'd have to fight through almost all of<BR>Oregon. And *we* don't have those silly gun laws that California does...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 11:55:13 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; The British TV licence is another. I can still scarcely credit that I<BR>&gt; have to pay =A3100 a year for the privelidge of owning a television :)<BR><BR>Well, that's actually a tax to pay for the BBC. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 11:57:28 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; And yes, our government-owned TV stations have the most trusted news, and<BR>&gt; other programs. I have heard this is difficult for Americans to believe.<BR>&gt; B-)<BR><BR>Well, I'm told that PBS, especially NPR (National Public Radio) here in<BR>the US tends to go in for that also.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:05:18 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Odd weapons question<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; John Groth writes:<BR>&gt;&gt; Not trivial.&nbsp; Calculating where one laser should point to have a decent<BR>&gt;&gt; chance of hitting an enemy ship _somewhere_ is far simpler than<BR>&gt;&gt; calculating where multiple lasers should point to hit an enemy ship<BR>&gt;&gt; _simultaneously at the exact same point_.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Actually, no.&nbsp; It's much easier to hit another beam (whose position you <BR>&gt; already<BR>&gt; know) than to hit a manuever ship (whose position you don't know).<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; But Traveller space combat often takes place at ranges of one light<BR>&gt;&gt; second or more.&nbsp; At those ranges, a minor shift one way or another will<BR>&gt;&gt; keep those multiple laser beams from focusing _simultaneously at the<BR>&gt;&gt; exact same point_.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Huh?&nbsp; Range has nothing to do with it.<BR><BR>Sure it does. The beam paths *aren't* parallel. There's an angle<BR>between them. And the pulses *can* only overlap at the "point" where<BR>the beam paths cross. Which is *very* dependent on range!<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; (BTW, I keep stressing the idea that multiple lasers must hit the target<BR>&gt;&gt; "simultaneously at the exact same point" because multiple lasers that<BR>&gt;&gt; hit the target at different points or times can not be expected to add<BR>&gt;&gt; to each other's penetration (the apparent point of the original<BR>&gt;&gt; question).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I know.&nbsp; You just seem to overestimate how hard that is to do.<BR><BR>On the contrary, you grossly *under*-estimate the difficulty.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:08:36 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Odd weapons question<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Bruce Macintosh writes:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; You need to know the range to your target very precisely (if the<BR>&gt;&gt; laser spots are 10 cm across at the target and the lasers are<BR>&gt;&gt; separated by 100m, you need to know the range to the target<BR>&gt;&gt; to within 1%), but this might not be a problem with active sensors.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; If you can hit with a meson gun, you know range to a few tens of meters, <BR>&gt; which<BR>&gt; is plenty to hit.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; It wouldn't work with grav lasers - in that case the size of the laser<BR>&gt;&gt; spot is much smaller than the pointing accuracy of the laser, since<BR>&gt;&gt; the grav focus makes the spot size so small. Probably wouldn't<BR>&gt;&gt; work with x-ray lasers for similar reasons. No reason it wouldn't<BR>&gt;&gt; work with non-xray lasers.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Hm...I can easily see this for grav focus lasers, but I don't see why this<BR>&gt; would be true for x-ray lasers -- they still need to actively reshape the <BR>&gt; mirror to focus down to a point, which means they need accuracy (in terms of<BR>&gt; shaping the mirror) comparable to the final spot size.<BR><BR>You don't "focus" X-ray lasers.<BR><BR>Hell, you don't use *mirrors* with them! X-rays only reflect from even<BR>the densest materials at *very* shallow angles of incidence. At steeper<BR>angles the x-rays go *between* the nuclei of the atoms. <BR><BR>Remember, the wavelengths of x-rays are comparable to the size of the<BR>average atomic nucleus.<BR><BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 15:19:48 -0500<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Noble vs. military rank.<BR><BR>&gt;Here's a question that been bugging me.&nbsp; (Doug, I'd particularly like to<BR>&gt;hear your thoughts).<BR>&gt;How does the 3I handle disparity of rank in the military.&nbsp; What I mean is,<BR>&gt;how does one handle a situation, say, where a non-noble colonel has command<BR>&gt;of a captain who also happens to be Marquis of Valhalla (or whatever).&nbsp; Are<BR>&gt;there formal rules and regulations to deal with this, or just custom.<BR>&gt;Specifically, how does one maintain unity of command in this situation?<BR><BR>From my reading of various sources, in the Navy, this could be a problem.<BR>In the Imperial Marines, the Marquis would just be another grunt till he <BR>was on leave.<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>Opinions should be yours too! - http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>"What's a FAQ? Boy, I wish someone would put a list of answers<BR>for common questions such as this..."<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 19:49:29 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help onCT&nbsp;&nbsp; task)<BR><BR>At 18:33 -0500 18/12/00, Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions <BR>&lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Of course, this was all sorted out with the adoption of the IHTIT<BR>&gt; &gt; rule ('It's harder than I thought') which meant that a lower skill<BR>&gt; &gt; high stat character was punished severely on the harder skill rolls.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Yeah...I remember that.&nbsp; I liked it.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;How did it work again?<BR><BR>If the number of dice to be thrown for the task roll exceeds the <BR>number of points of skill, add two extra dice to throw.<BR><BR>So EASY tasks are fine with one point of skill, but difficult etc are <BR>much worse. It was a simple and elegant solution to the problem with <BR>the high STAT low SKILL munchkin.<BR><BR>ISTR that Doug Berry or Andrew Moffatt-Vallance suggested a further <BR>expansion to this which linked in Jack-of-all-Trades very well too.<BR><BR>I lost both original posts in the great hard disk turns into a metal <BR>grinder crash of late 2000.<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 20:24:02 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT (sorta): Dune novel<BR><BR>At 18:33 -0500 18/12/00, Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions <BR>&lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Kenneth - DON"T READ THIS! SPOILERS FOR SEQUELS TO DUNE.<BR>&gt;Thanks!&nbsp; I stopped as soon as I saw your spoiler warning.<BR><BR>No problem.<BR><BR>I remember when this used to get done a lot more on TML ;-) Even <BR>about Traveller stuff like the Maghiz and Virus.<BR><BR>Dom (who hasn't bothered to see Sixth Sense since he was told the twist :-/ )<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 19:54:05 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: BITS adventures...<BR><BR>At 18:33 -0500 18/12/00,&nbsp; "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;Tee-Hee, BITS ACQ just arrived 2-day... Am I glad that I finally got a<BR>&gt;campaign rolling again, after almost a decade of not actually PLAYING<BR>&gt;Traveller. THIS _will_ be of use ;-)<BR><BR>Enjoy; Doug and James did a really good job on that book.<BR><BR>As someone just pointed out to me on another list, you basically get <BR>a ready made game if you pair ACQ with the new Beowulf deckplans from <BR>Steve Jackson Games as apparently they have some Cardboard Heros in <BR>too.<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 20:22:52 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: (OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR><BR>At 12:37 -0500 19/12/00,&nbsp; Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;At 8:52 AM -0700 12/19/00, J. Paul Sanders wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;Please bear in mind that 'Legates' claim to being an American are likely<BR>&gt; &gt;just as tenuous as his past claims of being a 1) Jewish Terrorist, 2)<BR>&gt; &gt;Scottish Highlander, or 3) Spy/Secret Agent Man (take your pick)... :)<BR>&gt; &gt;Before you give his flame-baiting more than a passing thought, consider the<BR>&gt; &gt;source and instead of nurturing his delusions by way of serious debate,<BR>&gt; &gt;rather urge him to resume taking his medication(s).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;But come on, kids, he's always going to be our favorite fwuffy wittle<BR>&gt;bunny-poo in the end.<BR><BR>But at the moment he thinks that he has *huge* pointy teeth....<BR><BR><BR>Tim the Enchanter<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 14:29:40 -0600<BR>From: "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" &lt;sdaniels@playnet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Noble vs Military rank (was: Traveller related (really!!))<BR><BR>Tod Glenn wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; So the question again is:&nbsp; does the 3I have formal regulations for dealing<BR>&gt; with this?<BR><BR>Not in canon.<BR><BR>&gt; Who enforces the rules.&nbsp; If military rank carries the day, how<BR>&gt; does the nobility retain is privilidged status?<BR><BR>By *not* serving in regions near their noble holdings.<BR>Lieutenant Count of somplace near Sylea serves<BR>in the Marches.&nbsp; That sort of thing, I would hope.<BR><BR>Or this sort of rationale:<BR>The military is the hand of the Emperor, Archduke, or Sector Duke.<BR>In that order.&nbsp; (You can extend this to lower levels as you like, but<BR>there is *always* a noble at the top).&nbsp; All orders from a soldier/sailor<BR>of superior military rank carry the same weight for the subordinate as<BR>if they had come directly from the Emperor.&nbsp; Soldiers/sailors, who are<BR>also members of the peerage, who are insubordinate to a superior<BR>officer are insubordinate to the Emperor (or whichever noble is on<BR>top of which command structure - there might be some variety there,<BR>given the different hierarchies in the different military branches).<BR><BR>For me, the more interesting situation is the interaction between<BR>non-noble military officers and civilian nobles, particularly at low<BR>to middling levels.&nbsp; Although, military officers derive authority from<BR>their superiors.&nbsp; Perhaps, if the civilian noble can't trump that higher<BR>authority, he can't command the military.&nbsp; They are the hand of the<BR>emperor, after all.<BR><BR>bloo<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 13:31:04 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of DespisingEach O ther in&nbsp; General<BR><BR>Much of that is because a significant percentage of the population<BR>screaming about Clinton, never had to live under Tricky Dick, or have<BR>ever read a history book.<BR><BR>Believe me, betwixt the two there is zero comparison. <BR><BR>Nixon ordered illegal break-ins and other crimes on order to silence<BR>opposition to the war, conceal the fact that the Pentagon had routinely<BR>lied to the American public about the state of the war effort,leading to<BR>our shocking surprise during the Tet Offensive, and to spy on his<BR>political rivals. He was afraid he was going to lose power in '72, and<BR>would stop at nothing to prevent it.<BR><BR>Clinton got caught with his pants down, literally. His _biggest_ crime<BR>was being elected as a Democrat when the Republicans thought that they<BR>owned 1600 Pennsylvania. They never forgave him that, even though the<BR>American public largely did. (At least enough to send him there for two<BR>terms.) Hell as it is the R's just _barely_ won it this time. <BR><BR>Against _Al Gore_ fer crissakes!!! <BR><BR>Polls showed repeatedly that had Clinton been able to and willing to run<BR>again, he would have won this election hands down. So much for the<BR>"significant section of the US population that rates President William<BR>Jefferson (i.e. Billy Jeff) Clinton lower than President Nixon." <BR><BR>No way in hell would Nixon have won re-election in '76, even if he had<BR>stayed in office.<BR><BR>No comparison.<BR><BR>If the military wants to whine about how poor, overextended, and<BR>overworked they are, perhape they should look at the<BR>Republican-controlled house for foisting costly pork down the military's<BR>throat, such as the C17, the Seawolf, and that gaping money pit of a<BR>so-called Missile Defense System.<BR><BR>Killing the big pork-projects that favored contractors the Congress<BR>leadership favored would free up huge sums to maintain the military,<BR>such as raising the living standards of the enlisted troops. Maybe even<BR>setting the armed forces up to handle the mission they have now, instead<BR>of their current setup of fighting a two front World War all over again. <BR><BR>Of course, then the defense contractors would raise hell, and not nearly<BR>enough cash for their conressional reps...<BR><BR>If the military wants to complain about going all over the world being<BR>cops, well tough sh*t. <BR><BR>One of the things that comes with being the Big Stick in the world is<BR>the responsibilities of being the Big Stick in the world. <BR><BR>If we truly want democracy to flower everywhere we're gonna have go do<BR>some gardening. <BR>If we don't want to do it, well we can go home and wait for the next big<BR>war to blow up in our faces.<BR><BR>Besides, it's hardly different than at any time in the past...foex, look<BR>at the Marine Corps history during the 20's and 30's. They were,<BR>essentially, a mercenary corps at the disposal of large US business<BR>interests, particularly in Latin America.<BR><BR>Mark Urbin wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;which is why the<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; military continued<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; to obey the most despised commander in chief in American history.<BR>&gt; &gt;Tricky Dicky, right?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Err...no.&nbsp; That title belongs to President BJC.<BR>&gt; Focus on the CinC part.<BR>&gt; Even without that, there is a significant section of the US population that<BR>&gt; rates<BR>&gt; President William Jefferson (i.e. Billy Jeff) Clinton lower than President<BR>&gt; Nixon.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 14:43:04 -0600<BR>From: Eris Reddoch &lt;eris@pcola.gulf.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Ken, maybe I missed it, but...<BR><BR>&gt; Suppose Piter is trying to force a stuck hatch open. There's no <BR>&gt; real skill involved here, it's just brute force. Piter has a Str <BR>&gt; of 8 and the Ref decides that forcing the hatch is a Difficult <BR>&gt; task.&nbsp; How does KB3 handle this?<BR><BR>&gt; I was waiting for that to come up :)<BR><BR>I'm good that way. &lt;g&gt; I hope you don't mind me doing this, I<BR>really *do* mean these as constructive questions.&nbsp; <BR><BR>&gt; There are no "Stat-only" or "Stat-based" throws in KB3.&nbsp; Every Task Throw is based on a Skill.<BR><BR>Thought you might write that. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; But, KB3 really broadens the definition of Default Skills a bit.&nbsp; <BR>&gt; Any skill that you can think up (or any situation that pops up <BR>&gt; in the game that requires a skill) in which the character can a<BR>&gt; ttempt the task without specialized training IS a Default Skill.<BR>&nbsp; <BR>&gt; In KB3, EVERY character has EVERY Default Skill.&nbsp; There is no need <BR>&gt; to write this skill on the character's sheet (because everybody's <BR>&gt; got it)--and the only reason you woud want to take up space on the <BR>&gt; character sheet with a Default Skill is that the character has gained <BR>&gt; some expertise with the Default Skill (in that case, you'd want to<BR>&gt; record that the character has a level above 0 in that Default Skill).<BR><BR>I hold with that philosophy myself. The only things that need to<BR>be on a Character Sheet are the exceptions from the norm.<BR><BR>&lt;snip explanation&gt;<BR><BR>Okay, but now let me toss you the next part of my question. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Piter's friend, Rnold is a very strong fellow, he has an Str of<BR>14, and he grabs that hatch wheel and gives it a mighty yank. I<BR>take it he still rolls the default 1d6 on his Lifting task?&nbsp; How<BR>is Rnold's 14 helping him here? <BR><BR>He may not fail as badly as Piter, but he is still going to fail<BR>as *often* isn't he?<BR><BR><BR>&gt; NOTE ON KB3 DIFFICULTY:&nbsp; I wanted the Difficulties in KB3 to be "tightened"<BR>&gt; compared to other Traveller systems. There's always been some discussion <BR>&gt; about just how easy it is, sometimes, to roll a "Difficult" task, or an<BR>&gt; "Impossible" task.<BR><BR>&gt; In KB3, the skill names really fit the Difficulty.&nbsp; "Difficult" is really <BR>&gt; a hard throw to make in KB3.&nbsp; "Impossible" throws really have a less than <BR>&gt; 0% chance of success in many instances.<BR>&nbsp; <BR>&gt; When Eris picked "Difficult" for that hatch above, that meant it was going <BR>&gt; to be "damn hard" to open the thing. "Average" may have been a better <BR>&gt; choice (depends on just how "stuck" the GM thinks the hatch is).<BR><BR>I don't have a problem with that...if I know about it first. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Ken, so far KB3 looks interesting. The opposed rolls for<BR>everything are a problem for me to deal with in my PBEM's,&nbsp; I end<BR>up rolling both sides of the contest. &lt;g&gt; I can see where doing<BR>this FTF would be fun, though. <BR>As a metagame issue, do you feel it is going to engender a<BR>feeling of competition between the players and the Ref to have<BR>him rolling against them on every turn?&nbsp; Yes, I know that feeling<BR>is already there in most games, so I mean more than exists<BR>already, of course. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Eris<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 21:42:58 +0100<BR>From: "Tage Borg" &lt;tage@hem.passagen.se&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Only if you live in the US.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;*boggle*&nbsp; Riigghtt.. LL, you *really* need to read up on places like<BR>&gt; Sweden.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I have, they produce some of the best porn around along with some damn<BR>&gt; good chocolate.&nbsp; *weg*<BR><BR>We make chocolate for export? Hmmm, that's news to me. Or have you been here<BR>and tried it? Belgium and Switzerland makes more (and more famous) chocolate<BR>than we do. And most of the porn inolving permutations of the word "Swedish"<BR>is made somewhere else, I'm sure. The porn that is shown on the expensive<BR>late-night cable channels is mostly german or american, from what I recall<BR>from the program listings in the paper.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; /Tage<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:13:29 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Odd weapons question<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; John Groth wrote:<BR>&gt; [...Converging mulitple laser beams...]<BR>&gt;&gt; Not trivial.&nbsp; Calculating where one laser should point to have a decent<BR>&gt;&gt; chance of hitting an enemy ship _somewhere_ is far simpler than<BR>&gt;&gt; calculating where multiple lasers should point to hit an enemy ship<BR>&gt;&gt; _simultaneously at the exact same point_.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Not at all, the hard part is already done.&nbsp; i.e. knowing where the<BR>&gt; enemy ship will be so you can hit it at all.<BR><BR>Sorry, but at space combat ranges you *don't* know where the ship is.<BR>You know where it *was*, and you aim a number of shots at spots it may<BR>have moved to by the time the shots arrive. <BR><BR>&gt; Simultaneous is easy --<BR>&gt; fire all lasers at once.&nbsp; Converging to the same point is easier than<BR>&gt; tracking and predicting the motion of a ship with information hundreds<BR>&gt; or thousands of milliseconds old.<BR><BR>You seem to have missed the fact that "a shot" in Traveller space<BR>combat is actually *hundreds* of shots spread out over the combat turn.<BR>All aimed at *different* parts of the volume the target *might* be in<BR>when they arrive. <BR><BR>&gt; If the target would have moved enough that 100 ns makes you miss the<BR>&gt; point you were aiming for, the 1 000 000 000 ns travel time at one<BR>&gt; light-second is going to ensure that you miss the whole ship 99.99% of<BR>&gt; the time and you might as well give up.<BR><BR>And in fact, you *do* miss the target 99% or more of the time. Which is<BR>why the hundreds (or even thousands) of shots fired over the course of<BR>a turn generate one (or at most a few) hits that need to be rolled for.<BR><BR>&gt; The fact that the enemy is at long distance makes it easier (given<BR>&gt; that you can hit at all), since their radial motion becomes irrelevant<BR>&gt; for converging the beams since they are for all practical purposes<BR>&gt; parallel at the target.<BR><BR>Actually, that makes point a problem as tiny changes in aim or timing<BR>generate *huge* changes in the point of convergence. It gets *harder*<BR>the farther away the target is. <BR><BR>&gt; Finally, note that in order to hit a 100 m target at 300 000 000 m at<BR>&gt; all, the lasers must already have extremely good stabilisation,<BR>&gt; tracking, and timing ability.&nbsp; If you can provide any figures that<BR>&gt; allow hitting a general fast-moving ship target at a light second<BR>&gt; without being stable enough to converge the beams to within their<BR>&gt; dispersion diameter, I'd be very surprised indeed.<BR><BR>Fire a spread of hundreds of pulses scattered over the "possible<BR>positions" circle. With any luck, one or more will hit.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:21:17 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Reft sector X-boat link<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; This means that for any pair of worlds, there will be preferred jump<BR>&gt;&gt; entry and exit points, so as to save some fuel by jumping with the<BR>&gt;&gt; "ideal" vector. Basicly, you'd boost towards the 100 diameter limit in<BR>&gt;&gt; a direction such that your velocity relative to target target planet<BR>&gt;&gt; will be low (assuming you boost at constant acceleration *without*<BR>&gt;&gt; tirnover). This saves on deceleration at the destination, if you come<BR>&gt;&gt; out close to your intended jump duration.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; But you don't *have* to. So you can come out anyplace you choose as<BR>&gt;&gt; long as your "course line" doesn't pass thru anything's 100 diameter<BR>&gt;&gt; limit. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Presumably then, you are using Jump Masking from Far Trader, or something<BR>&gt; like it anyway?<BR><BR>It seems reasonable. And Marc made it official some years back.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Also, this means that the "ideal" vector varies over time because of<BR>&gt;&gt; the motions of the planets in their orbits. The stars move too, but<BR>&gt;&gt; that's not cyclic, so it can be treated as a "fixed" quantity.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; I imagine that some companies will go to the trouble of doing <BR>&gt;&gt; "military<BR>&gt;&gt; style" extended jump calcs just to get the reduction in uncertainty of<BR>&gt;&gt; arrival time (minutes to hiurs, rather than hours to days). this will<BR>&gt;&gt; save fuel (a minor consideration) and enable them to keep tighter<BR>&gt;&gt; schedules (an important consideration). <BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; I also expect that X-boats use the extended calculations, and get<BR>&gt;&gt; "dropped off" by the tender with the best practical vector, so as time<BR>&gt;&gt; make the transit as predictable as possible, on both ends.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Agreed. Seems reasonable.<BR><BR>The hard part is keeping track of the planetary positions. Even if you<BR>restrict it to 2d (ie all systems are in the same plane) you need to<BR>know where the planet is along its orbit. <BR><BR>Then again, that's something that really should be kept track of<BR>anyway. But it'll be a pain.<BR><BR>Some day I may get around to writing a program that can track and<BR>display this sort of thing. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:29:42 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Seas of LOX<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Nope. Helium won't freeze except under 26 atmospheres of pressure, even<BR>&gt;&gt; at -272.2 C (0.95 K). The "zero point" motion required by the<BR>&gt;&gt; uncertainty principle is enough to keep it liquid otherwise.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; However, it may be unlikely for the helium to coalesce onto a planet -- the<BR>&gt; planet needs to be large enough that helium can't escape at the temperature<BR>&gt; the planet will be while forming, and I'm not sure that's possible without <BR>&gt; being a gas giant.<BR><BR>Fair sized "planetismals" and even small planets should be out there in<BR>the Oort Cloud. They could (slowly) pick up stuff from the interstellar<BR>medium, and they aren't likely to lose it at a measureable rate.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:53:11 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: OT-Chris Bunch "Last Legion" Series?<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Has anybody read this yet? What did you think? Travish, or not? I picked up<BR>&gt; the entire Sten series on the recommendation of the TML and loved it. Allen<BR>&gt; Cole was coauthor though and I've never cared for the fantasy titles Bunch<BR>&gt; has turned out by himself.<BR><BR>I've been reading the "Last Legion" stuff. It's not bad. <BR><BR>Traveller? Maybe. I can see how some of it could translate. But 90% of<BR>the action takes place in one star system.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:10:10 -0500<BR>From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>Subject: Re: Skill Inflation (was Re: (1) KB3 Traveller System (Playtest))<BR><BR>Eris wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;I'd *rather* not divide by 2 if I could avoid it.&nbsp; I don't see End<BR>&gt;providing much help in *learning* a skill, so how about Str + Dex,<BR>&gt;(avg 14) for physical and Int + Edu (avg 14) for mental skills<BR>&gt;giving an average total of 28 skill levels.&nbsp; If we give about 1<BR>&gt;level per year (that has always seems fairly reasonable to me), an<BR>&gt;average character would be "maxing" out in their early 40's, and<BR>&gt;that fits too!&nbsp; Of course, this leaves End and Soc out of the skills<BR>&gt;derby...hum, is that a bad thing?<BR><BR>End+Soc governing points in Liaison?&nbsp; How long can you stand being in unpleasant social circumstances (e.g. your office XMas party)?&nbsp; Okay, maybe not -- I like the above.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;And let the stat work as a skill level cap.&nbsp; Say half.&nbsp; So Joe<BR>&gt;&gt;Average could have 10 skill levels total in mental, but the maximum<BR>&gt;&gt;level of any *one* skill would be 3 or 4 (depending on rounding<BR>&gt;&gt;rules).&nbsp; If the cap was 1/3rd stat, then Joe would have a max of<BR>&gt;&gt;level 2 in any skill.<BR><BR>&gt;That's probably a good idea, but I'd rather not have a divisor.&nbsp; I<BR>&gt;don't think leaving the skills uncapped would be too unbalancing,<BR>&gt;might need testing.<BR><BR>Something I've had kicking around a little is to give the governing stat more of a direct role in Skill Improvement.&nbsp; I'm thinking something along the lines of:<BR><BR>To Increase a Level in a Skill<BR>Formidable, (governing stat of skill)(IP), 1 day<BR>Safe<BR><BR>I don't remember how exactly IP worked in MT, but I have in mind gaining them for "exceptional" uses and/or (large value of)X hours of study/instruction.&nbsp; Obviously the difficulty and time variable would need to be ironed out through playtesting (with the goal of getting Average Joe 1.25 points/game year, just like he gets when everything's abstracted out).<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Perhaps this idea can be folded into Chargen as well?<BR>&gt;&gt;For example:&nbsp; Army Basic Training: Brawling-0, Gun-0, Vehicle-0).<BR>&gt;&gt;Merchant Training (Steward-0, Streetwise-0, Bribery-0) Things like<BR>&gt;&gt;that?<BR><BR>&gt;That's exactly what I had in mind!&nbsp; <BR><BR>&gt;I'm thinking about 4 year terms with 1 free choice and 3 rolls for<BR>&gt;skills. Here's the basic idea using Navy as an example:<BR><BR>&lt;snip big, good example&gt;<BR><BR>I like this a lot.&nbsp; As Kenneth mentioned (in a totally unrelated post) the best feature of Trav char-gen is that it's almost an adventure in itself.&nbsp; It would be even moreso if we could graft onto it some sort of a 'Lifepath' (like in R. Talsorian's games (i.e. Mekton, Cyberpunk)) which allowed characters to accumulate friends/enemies/contacts by year in addition to skills/decorations.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Another (tenuously related) change I'd like to see:&nbsp; for consistency's sake, shouldn't the rolls in char-gen be task-based?&nbsp; The ad-hoc nature of the rolls and mods in char-gen is clunky and doesn't fit the rest of the system.&nbsp; Why couldn't we have, for instance:<BR><BR>To enlist in the scouts<BR>Easy; End, Int (or whatever)<BR>Safe<BR><BR>To survive a term in the scouts without Mishap<BR>Difficult; Dex, Int<BR>Fateful, hazardous<BR><BR>And so on.&nbsp; I have no books in front of me so I'm sure I've got diffs, mods, and format all wrong, but hopefully my point still comes through.<BR><BR>Just throwing out a couple of thigs that have been stewing in the back of my mind for the last couple of days...<BR><BR>Trent<BR><BR>P.S.&nbsp; I'm sure others disagree, but I find it much more interesting and worthwhile to brainstorm over and tinker with game mechanics than to argue about canon (or even worse, OT garbage -- I mean, come on, France-bashing!?)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3429<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yh02.mx.aol.com (rly-yh02.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.34]) by air-yh03.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:13:49 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yh02.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:13:25 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id QAA26929;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:11:30 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:11:23 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id QAA26754<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:11:23 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:11:23 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012192111.QAA26754@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3429<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, December 19 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3430<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Millions for defense<BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>Re: Odd weapons question<BR>Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of DespisingEach O ther in&nbsp; General<BR>Re: Traveller related (really!!)<BR>Re: Seas of LOX<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Traveller related (really!!)<BR>Re: Reft sector X-boat link<BR>Re: Odd weapons question<BR>RE: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR>Re: Skill Inflation (was Re: (1) KB3 Traveller System (Playtest))<BR>Re: Traveller related (really!!)<BR>Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of DespisingEach O ther in&nbsp; General<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:13:55 EST<BR>From: TOCoons@cs.com<BR>Subject: Millions for defense<BR><BR>In a message dated 12/18/00 11:26:55 PM Mountain Standard Time, <BR>owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR><BR>&gt; At 10:52 PM -0700 12/17/00, Legate Legion wrote:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; True the French helped us out in the Revolution, but after the<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;Revolution they wanted a tribute from us, spawning the famous American<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;saying, "Millions for Defense, but not a penny in Tribute".<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;Oh... I thought that had something to do with public funding of <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;education and arts.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; It was Jefferson that said it, I think, and it was about the Barbary<BR>&gt;&nbsp; Pirates IIRC.&nbsp; If I'm right, then I suspect Jefferson was more<BR>&gt;&nbsp; concerned with publicly funding the purchase of most of the<BR>&gt;&nbsp; country...from the French!&nbsp; &lt;g&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; Eris<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; The US-French alliance was strained from the beginning. Recall that the <BR>French had lost nearly all its Canadian territory to Britain in 1765, and the <BR>Anglo-French alliance if 1778 was intended more to punish Britain than to <BR>help the Americans. In spite of this treaty which demanded that American and <BR>France together negotiate with Britain,&nbsp; Franklin, Adams, and Jay negotiated <BR>a preliminary, separate peace with Britain in 1782 a year before the formal <BR>Treaty of Paris in 1783. The French, now that the British were humbled, now <BR>had little interest in honoring the treaty provisions that gave American <BR>traders access to the West Indies, and demanded repayment of their loans. <BR>This put pressure on the weak Confederation Congress which had no power to <BR>impose taxes.&nbsp; In 1789, the same year as Washington's first Inauguration, the <BR>French Revolution began. By 1793 when Louis XVI was beheaded, most of the <BR>American leaders were somewhere between horrified and embarrassed by its <BR>excesses. Washington was determined to keep America out of the conflict <BR>between Britain and France, and the French ambassador who tried to drag <BR>American into the war on the French side was sent home. The British, who <BR>feared the US would join the French, siezed american shipping in the West <BR>indies, and&nbsp; John Jay was sent to Britain to try to preserve the peace with <BR>Britain, and only barely managed to do so. The Jay treaty of 1795 was even <BR>less popular with the French than it was at home, and nearly brought America <BR>to war with france.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Washington's successor Adams sent ambassadors to France, in 1798 but were <BR>humiliated when agents identified as X, Y, and Z demanded a loan of 32 <BR>million dollars plus a bribe of 250 thousand for an interview with the french <BR>Foreign minister Talleyrand. Though bribery was standard practice in European <BR>diplomacy at the time, the amount demanded, with no promise of anything <BR>tangible, infuriated the Americans, and it was at this time that the slogan <BR>"Millions for defence, but not one cent for tribute" took hold.&nbsp; It was a few <BR>years later, in 1801 under Jefferson, that the infant US navy was sent to <BR>fight Algerian pirates at Tripoli. <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1n 1802, Spain (which had been conquered by Napoleon), restricted the <BR>rights of American shipping at New Orleans, and Jefferson secretly sent <BR>ministers to Napoleon offer no more than $10 million for New Orleans and as <BR>much land as they could get to the east of it.&nbsp; They came back with an <BR>agreement to purchase the whole Louisiana Territory for $15 million (though <BR>it technically it still belonged to Spain and wasn't Napoleon's to sell in <BR>the first place), a bargain that Jefferson didn't dare refuse, in spite of <BR>his consitutional scruples.<BR><BR>Ob Traveller:<BR>The hazards of diplomacy without high speed communications. Your ambassador <BR>comes home with an agreement so much better, worse, or just different than <BR>what you sent him to negotiate that it has major repercussions not only on <BR>your foreigh and domestic policy, but the whole political climate and even <BR>philosophy of government. <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:56:10 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;There is no evidence anywhere in canon that the emergence point does<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;not move with time [...] The logical deduction is that it does<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;not matter. Which is easiest explained by saying that the emergence<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;point moves along with the target world.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;No, it's most easily explained by saying that the authors never thought<BR>&gt;&gt;of it.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; As far as I am concerned that's an explanation that has no place in<BR>&gt; these kinds of discussions. We have a body of lore and what<BR>&gt; deductions we make are based on that body. HOW that body came into<BR>&gt; being is not really relevant.<BR><BR>Actually, it is *very* relevant. Because when the authors overlook<BR>something, it tends to lead to later conflicts when someone *does*<BR>start thinking about it.<BR>&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&gt;You *did* note that for a 1 day early or late emergence, the difference<BR>&gt;&gt;amounts to around an hour at 1 g?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Actually, no I didn't. If you had any canonical references that<BR>&gt; stated that the emergence point was sationary relative to the planet<BR>&gt; aimed for, that would be a great way to explain the discrepancy. But<BR>&gt; you don't, so there is no discrepancy to begin with.<BR>&nbsp; <BR>"Stationary relative to the destination planet" is *your* position, not<BR>mine!<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Assuming the emergence point moves brings in a host of questions that I<BR>&gt;&gt;don't think we want to deal with. To start with, how does it know which<BR>&gt;&gt;way to move?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "It" doesn't know anything, of course. It's simply a function of jump<BR>&gt; navigation. The astrogator includes some function that compensates for time<BR>&gt; lapse. Or something. Don't ask me, I'm not an astrogator.<BR><BR>Sorry, but that's invoking "magic" as an explanation. The point being<BR>that since it is canonical that the astrogator doesn't know how long<BR>the jump will take, then it's *impossible* for him to do that.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;After all, it's *also* an established fact in the game that you can<BR>&gt;&gt;jump into "empty" space. The early expeditions from Earth had to do<BR>&gt;&gt;that as there aren't any stars within J1 of Earth.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; So? The two cases are not equivalent. In one the astrogator wants to<BR>&gt; emerge as close to a particular moving object as possible, in the<BR>&gt; other he wants to emerge somewhere in empty space.<BR>&nbsp; <BR>Sorry, you seem to not be getting the point. Which is that there's *no*<BR>way that the *drive* can know which is the case. <BR><BR>Remember, it *is* canonical that you make the jump calcs, and then<BR>jump, after which point you can't do *anything* to affect when/where<BR>you exit.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;So how does the drive know that you are jumping for a point outside the<BR>&gt;&gt;planet's 100 diameter limit, rather than to a point in empty space that<BR>&gt;&gt;happens to be near a planet?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The astrogator told it.<BR><BR>You have *got* to be kidding. That's not an answer. That's a circular<BR>argument. You are saying that it knows because it knows. <BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Also, this means that fleets would wind up *more* scattered than they do.<BR>&gt;&gt;Because every ship would come out at a different spot relative to the<BR>&gt;&gt;planet, depending on how long it was in jump, rather than staying in<BR>&gt;&gt;more or less the same spot relative to the rest of the fleet and just<BR>&gt;&gt;coming out at a different time.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; That's a third case, one where the astrogators wanted to emerge more or less <BR>&gt; in<BR>&gt; the same spot regardless of time elapsed. So the astrogators took that into<BR>&gt; account. I'm not saying that you CAN'T aim for a particular spot; I'm just<BR>&gt; saying that you CAN do otherwise.<BR><BR>The problem is that being able to "steer" the way you propose requires<BR>that the drive somehow be "intelligent". That it, is has to be able to<BR>"act" upon information THAT THE ASTROGATOR DOESN'T HAVE. And, that, in<BR>fact, the rules make quite clear he *cannot* have.<BR><BR>Your version violates Occam's razor *badly*. Because every time a<BR>discrepancy is pointed out, you add new postulates to compensate. <BR><BR>My version makes a *minimum* set of assumptions and goes from there.<BR>And whatever the consequences are, I live with them.<BR><BR>Yours can be twisted around any way someone wants to, because it<BR>doesn't really have rules, just "make it work the way I want to". <BR>So you can justify *anything* and it doesn't really have a background<BR>that you can plan against or plan *with*.<BR><BR>The best example is that you had to postulate two cases, then add a<BR>*third* for fleets. With *no* justification other than trying to avoid<BR>the questions I brought up. I daresay I could bring up still more<BR>questions and you'd have to invent still more cases. <BR><BR>That's not a "rule" or "game mechanic". Certainly not a *usable* one.<BR>Because it doesn't *say* anything useful. Instead it just tries to make<BR>every variation covered by a seperate rule, and doesn't even give a<BR>rule for coming up with those rules. It's not *consistent*.<BR><BR>I have *one* case, and it works with everything. At worst, it means a<BR>bit of extra manuevering before/after jump. At best, it gives a<BR>framework that will give a *definite* answer in any situation.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 13:21:12 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Odd weapons question<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>&gt; &gt; Not at all, the hard part is already done.&nbsp; i.e. knowing where the<BR>&gt; &gt; enemy ship will be so you can hit it at all.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Sorry, but at space combat ranges you *don't* know where the ship is.<BR>&gt; You know where it *was*, and you aim a number of shots at spots it may<BR>&gt; have moved to by the time the shots arrive. <BR><BR>Fortunately, you don't need to know where the ship is to make all the beams<BR>converge.&nbsp; Just means all your shots miss if you guess wrong.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:21:11 -0500<BR>From: "Thom Harris" &lt;thomharr@mediaone.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of DespisingEach O ther in&nbsp; General<BR><BR>Uh, Nixon ran on a ticket to shut down Vietnam and the Tet offensive was<BR>January 68'. Nixon wasn't elected until November of that year, so it was<BR>Johnson caught with his pants down. What Nixon tried to *cover-up* was the<BR>break-in and bugging of the Democratic HQ's in the Watergate hotel. He lied<BR>about *when* he found out about it and the subsequent cover-up. He didn't<BR>order it and didn't find out about it until after the Washington Post put it<BR>on their front page. He did however, get us out of Vietnam!!!! He began<BR>pulling troops out in 72', before Watergate even happened. No, I'm not a<BR>Republican, I just like history and it just so happened that I went into the<BR>Army in 69' so I was very concerned about Vietnam.<BR><BR>Thom Harris - GOFIR - &lt;Gnarly Old Fart In Residence&gt;<BR>"I spent most of my money on Wine, Women and Song; the rest I just wasted."<BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Bruce Johnson" &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 3:31 PM<BR>Subject: Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of DespisingEach O<BR>ther in General<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Nixon ordered illegal break-ins and other crimes on order to silence<BR>&gt; opposition to the war, conceal the fact that the Pentagon had routinely<BR>&gt; lied to the American public about the state of the war effort,leading to<BR>&gt; our shocking surprise during the Tet Offensive, and to spy on his<BR>&gt; political rivals. He was afraid he was going to lose power in '72, and<BR>&gt; would stop at nothing to prevent it.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Against _Al Gore_ fer crissakes!!!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Polls showed repeatedly that had Clinton been able to and willing to run<BR>&gt; again, he would have won this election hands down. So much for the<BR>&gt; "significant section of the US population that rates President William<BR>&gt; Jefferson (i.e. Billy Jeff) Clinton lower than President Nixon."<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; No way in hell would Nixon have won re-election in '76, even if he had<BR>&gt; stayed in office.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; No comparison.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; If the military wants to whine about how poor, overextended, and<BR>&gt; overworked they are, perhape they should look at the<BR>&gt; Republican-controlled house for foisting costly pork down the military's<BR>&gt; throat, such as the C17, the Seawolf, and that gaping money pit of a<BR>&gt; so-called Missile Defense System.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Killing the big pork-projects that favored contractors the Congress<BR>&gt; leadership favored would free up huge sums to maintain the military,<BR>&gt; such as raising the living standards of the enlisted troops. Maybe even<BR>&gt; setting the armed forces up to handle the mission they have now, instead<BR>&gt; of their current setup of fighting a two front World War all over again.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Of course, then the defense contractors would raise hell, and not nearly<BR>&gt; enough cash for their conressional reps...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; If the military wants to complain about going all over the world being<BR>&gt; cops, well tough sh*t.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; One of the things that comes with being the Big Stick in the world is<BR>&gt; the responsibilities of being the Big Stick in the world.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; If we truly want democracy to flower everywhere we're gonna have go do<BR>&gt; some gardening.<BR>&gt; If we don't want to do it, well we can go home and wait for the next big<BR>&gt; war to blow up in our faces.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Besides, it's hardly different than at any time in the past...foex, look<BR>&gt; at the Marine Corps history during the 20's and 30's. They were,<BR>&gt; essentially, a mercenary corps at the disposal of large US business<BR>&gt; interests, particularly in Latin America.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Mark Urbin wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;which is why the<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; military continued<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; to obey the most despised commander in chief in American history.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;Tricky Dicky, right?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Err...no.&nbsp; That title belongs to President BJC.<BR>&gt; &gt; Focus on the CinC part.<BR>&gt; &gt; Even without that, there is a significant section of the US population<BR>that<BR>&gt; &gt; rates<BR>&gt; &gt; President William Jefferson (i.e. Billy Jeff) Clinton lower than<BR>President<BR>&gt; &gt; Nixon.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt; Bruce Johnson<BR>&gt; University of Arizona<BR>&gt; College of Pharmacy<BR>&gt; Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 08:41:48 +1100<BR>From: Robert Houghton &lt;rhoughto@one.net.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller related (really!!)<BR><BR>- --------------05E76CFD92CE4DF6EC721305<BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit<BR><BR><BR><BR>Tod Glenn wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Noble vs. military rank.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Here's a question that been bugging me.&nbsp; (Doug, I'd particularly like to<BR>&gt; hear your thoughts).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; How does the 3I handle disparity of rank in the military.&nbsp; What I mean is,<BR>&gt; how does one handle a situation, say, where a non-noble colonel has command<BR>&gt; of a captain who also happens to be Marquis of Valhalla (or whatever).&nbsp; Are<BR>&gt; there formal rules and regulations to deal with this, or just custom.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Specifically, how does one maintain unity of command in this situation?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>For one answer to this question read 'Memory' by Louis McMaster Bujold...some<BR>parts deal very well with military vs noble rank in society where both are<BR>important...<BR><BR>Other Rob<BR><BR><BR>- --------------05E76CFD92CE4DF6EC721305<BR>Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit<BR><BR>&lt;!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"&gt;<BR><BR>&amp;nbsp;<BR>
<P>Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>&lt;blockquote TYPE=CITE&gt;Noble vs. military rank.<BR>
<P>Here's a question that been bugging me.&amp;nbsp; (Doug, I'd particularly<BR>like to<BR><BR>hear your thoughts).<BR>
<P>How does the 3I handle disparity of rank in the military.&amp;nbsp; What<BR>I mean is,<BR><BR>how does one handle a situation, say, where a non-noble colonel has<BR>command<BR><BR>of a captain who also happens to be Marquis of Valhalla (or whatever).&amp;nbsp;<BR>Are<BR><BR>there formal rules and regulations to deal with this, or just custom.<BR>
<P>Specifically, how does one maintain unity of command in this situation?<BR><BR>&amp;nbsp;<BR><BR><A href="http://www.solsec.org/" title=http://www.solsec.org/></A>&amp;nbsp;&lt;/blockquote&gt;<BR>For one answer to this question read 'Memory' by Louis McMaster Bujold...some<BR>parts deal very well with military vs noble rank in society where both<BR>are important...<BR>
<P>Other Rob<BR><BR>&amp;nbsp;<BR><BR>- --------------05E76CFD92CE4DF6EC721305--<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 08:41:23 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Seas of LOX<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt; One way to get that sort of thing would be for a (very unlikely) close<BR>&gt; stellar encounter to have ejected a planet with an oxygen/nitrogen<BR>&gt; atmosphere from a system. (c.f. Fritz Lieber;s short story "A Pail of<BR>&gt; Air"). <BR><BR>I was thinking about that story not long ago.&nbsp; Yes, it would probably<BR>work, even if not on geological timescales.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Or maybe an elliptical orbit would be better. That way, primitive life<BR>&gt; forms could survive, and keep replenishing the oxygen supply. <BR><BR>That's very elliptical, cometary in fact.&nbsp; It would be a very<BR>intersting place when approaching the sun!<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; I think I'm going to have to break down and check out the CD version of<BR>&gt; the CRC handbook.<BR><BR>I didn't know there was one.&nbsp; Hmm.&nbsp; I'm using an old second-hand copy<BR>from 1980 or so (picked it up for $2 at a garage sale).<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Somewhere I have a list I dug out for a planet at the *other* extreme.<BR>&gt; I had it orbiting at about .1 AU from a G class star, but farther out<BR>&gt; from a brighter star would work too. <BR><BR>OK, a radiative black-body equilibrium of about 1000 K -- a bit hotter<BR>than Venus, and that's not exactly everyone's favourite picnic spot.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Then you take the remaining stuff and try to figure out how much of each<BR>&gt; element would have wound up in which compounds. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; All this was being done by hand. I ought to try re-doing it now that I<BR>&gt; have a computer. :-)<BR><BR>I don't think it would be much easier.&nbsp; Harder in fact, since you have<BR>to deal with the vagaries of programming as well as the vagaries of<BR>chemistry.&nbsp; But you only need to do it once if you make it<BR>sufficiently general.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; I suspect that the world would be worth mining, if you could manage to<BR>&gt; land on it.<BR><BR>Yeah, at that temperature only heavy elements would be left.&nbsp; Too hot<BR>to hold an atmosphere if it started vaguely Earthlike or smaller, so<BR>anything with a significant vapour pressure is gone.&nbsp; Hmm ... a few<BR>metals would be liquid at those temperatures, and might even have<BR>evaporated over geological time.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 21:47:17 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>At 16:11 -0500 19/12/00, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:<BR>&gt;In mail you write:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; The British TV licence is another. I can still scarcely credit that I<BR>&gt; &gt; have to pay =A3100 a year for the privelidge of owning a television :)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Well, that's actually a tax to pay for the BBC.<BR><BR>Which has no advertisements, decent programmes (sometimes) and an <BR>extremely fine website.<BR><BR>Works for me.<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:52:38 -0500<BR>From: "Thom Harris" &lt;thomharr@mediaone.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller related (really!!)<BR><BR>I've been reading this sorta casually for a couple of days now. I think the<BR>example of Prince Andrew flying helicopters in the Falklands is a clear<BR>example that could be used. It seems to me that when a noble is sworn into<BR>the military they take an oath to follow the orders of the officers<BR>appointed over them. This will not be an option and if it becomes a problem<BR>of *state* then s/he will either be discharged or reassigned back to the<BR>palace.<BR><BR>Thom Harris - GOFIR - &lt;Gnarly Old Fart In Residence&gt;<BR>"I spent most of my money on Wine, Women and Song; the rest I just wasted."<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Robert Houghton" &lt;rhoughto@one.net.au&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 4:41 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller related (really!!)<BR><BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Noble vs. military rank.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Here's a question that been bugging me.&nbsp; (Doug, I'd particularly like to<BR>&gt; &gt; hear your thoughts).<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; How does the 3I handle disparity of rank in the military.&nbsp; What I mean<BR>is,<BR>&gt; &gt; how does one handle a situation, say, where a non-noble colonel has<BR>command<BR>&gt; &gt; of a captain who also happens to be Marquis of Valhalla (or whatever).<BR>Are<BR>&gt; &gt; there formal rules and regulations to deal with this, or just custom.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Specifically, how does one maintain unity of command in this situation?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; For one answer to this question read 'Memory' by Louis McMaster<BR>Bujold...some<BR>&gt; parts deal very well with military vs noble rank in society where both are<BR>&gt; important...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Other Rob<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 08:57:20 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Reft sector X-boat link<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; That brings up interesting questions.&nbsp; It would seem then, that moving<BR>&gt; &gt; the jump emergence point is a function of the astrogator.&nbsp; What are<BR>&gt; &gt; the limits of this?&nbsp; Are there any?&nbsp; Is it straight-line movement<BR>&gt; &gt; only, or does it follow the path of the planet's orbit?&nbsp; Is it<BR>&gt; &gt; affected by gravity?&nbsp; Does the velocity of the exit point affect your<BR>&gt; &gt; own velocity when you emerge from jumpspace?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; The answers to all of these questions have military implications.<BR><BR>&gt; Marc posted rules for determining how far you were from the point<BR>&gt; you were aiming at (but has never said whether it's a fixed point or<BR>&gt; moves with the target).<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; For velocity, my take is that it's conserved.<BR><BR>Conserved in which sense?&nbsp; Conserved w.r.t. an absolute frame of<BR>reference, or conserved in the 'parallel transport' sense of<BR>relativity?<BR><BR><BR>&gt; This means that for any pair of worlds, there will be preferred jump<BR>&gt; entry and exit points, so as to save some fuel by jumping with the<BR>&gt; "ideal" vector.<BR><BR>Yes.&nbsp; The tables seem to assume accelerating and decelerating to the<BR>jump point, making the jump then accelerating and decelerating to the<BR>target planet.<BR><BR>If velocity is conserved, that's inefficient.&nbsp; You accelerate to the<BR>jump point, jump with a conserved velocity of a few hundred km/s, then<BR>decelerate on approach to the planet.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Basicly, you'd boost towards the 100 diameter limit in a direction<BR>&gt; such that your velocity relative to target planet will be low<BR><BR>But then you have to accelerate *and* decelerate again on arrival to<BR>get from 100D to the planet, which wastes time and doesn't save any<BR>fuel.&nbsp; If you can arrive with a velocity vector, you may as well make<BR>it one that saves half the job by not needing to accelerate.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; I imagine that some companies will go to the trouble of doing "military<BR>&gt; style" extended jump calcs just to get the reduction in uncertainty of<BR>&gt; arrival time (minutes to hiurs, rather than hours to days).<BR><BR>I didn't know there was such a thing.&nbsp; Any references I might have<BR>missed?<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:02:46 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Odd weapons question<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt; Sure it does. The beam paths *aren't* parallel. There's an angle<BR>&gt; between them. And the pulses *can* only overlap at the "point" where<BR>&gt; the beam paths cross. Which is *very* dependent on range!<BR><BR>Let's look at some numbers.&nbsp; Say you're at 1 light-second range, with<BR>lasers mounted 50 m apart.&nbsp; If you miscalculated the range to the<BR>enemy by 100 km, then the beam centres are about 16 millimetres apart.<BR><BR>I very much doubt that the beams are less than 16 millimetres in<BR>diameter, so even with such a gross miscalculation of range they still<BR>hit the same spot.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:01:31 +1300<BR>From: "Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>On 19 Dec 2000, at 20:37, Mikko V. I. Parviainen wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; It is also true that no students pay the TV licence. This seems to be a<BR>&gt; matter of principle, because many of my student friends earn some 15000<BR>&gt; FIM a month...<BR><BR>Sounds like here (before the fee was axed), where dodging broadcasting fee <BR>colloecters and conning them into believing you didn't have a working TV was a <BR>bit of a sport amongst students and the unemployed.<BR><BR>- --<BR>"Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR><BR>A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:59:33 -0500<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR><BR>&gt;The porn that is shown on the expensive<BR>&gt;late-night cable channels is mostly german or american, from what I recall<BR>&gt;from the program listings in the paper.<BR><BR>A lament from a Swedish co-worker a few years ago:<BR>"The best Swedish films are now made in America."<BR><BR><BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>"Raised in a Washington hotel room in his youth, real<BR>life is something Al Gore has read about but not lived."<BR>- -- Dick Morris -- http://albore.homepage.com/<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:02:25 -0600<BR>From: "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" &lt;sdaniels@playnet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Skill Inflation (was Re: (1) KB3 Traveller System (Playtest))<BR><BR>trentfs@ix.netcom.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I like this a lot.&nbsp; As Kenneth mentioned (in a totally unrelated post) the best feature of Trav char-gen is that it's almost an adventure in itself.&nbsp; It would be even moreso if we could graft onto it some sort of a 'Lifepath' (like in R. Talsorian's games (i.e. Mekton, Cyberpunk)) which allowed characters to accumulate friends/enemies/contacts by year in addition to skills/decorations.<BR><BR>Not familiar with it, but that would certainly provide a few<BR>starting patrons.&nbsp; A referee could introduce patrons and other<BR>adventure characters to fill these slots.&nbsp; That gives an in-game<BR>mechanic for giving information and assistance to players who<BR>need it.<BR><BR>&gt; To enlist in the scouts<BR>&gt; Easy; End, Int (or whatever)<BR>&gt; Safe<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; To survive a term in the scouts without Mishap<BR>&gt; Difficult; Dex, Int<BR>&gt; Fateful, hazardous<BR><BR>Hmm.&nbsp; I think I like this.<BR>You could make promotion rolls tasks that essentially<BR>mirror the skill requirements for advancement exams in<BR>Merchant Prince.<BR><BR>bloo<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:05:35 +1300<BR>From: "Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller related (really!!)<BR><BR>On 19 Dec 2000, at 10:47, Tod Glenn wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Noble vs. military rank.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Here's a question that been bugging me.&nbsp; (Doug, I'd particularly like to<BR>&gt; hear your thoughts).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; How does the 3I handle disparity of rank in the military.&nbsp; What I mean is,<BR>&gt; how does one handle a situation, say, where a non-noble colonel has command of a<BR>&gt; captain who also happens to be Marquis of Valhalla (or whatever).&nbsp; Are there<BR>&gt; formal rules and regulations to deal with this, or just custom.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Specifically, how does one maintain unity of command in this situation?<BR><BR>Presumeably the same way the British Navy used to - when you're on active <BR>service you do what the higher Naval rank says or face court martial. The other <BR>answer is of course to sell commissions, as this way the high ranked nobility <BR>(being in general wealthier) will have high military ranks. However I don't <BR>think the Canon Police will be very happy with this latter solution.<BR><BR>- --<BR>"Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR><BR>A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:09:06 -0500<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of DespisingEach O ther in&nbsp; General<BR><BR>&gt;If the military wants to whine about how poor, overextended, and<BR>&gt;overworked they are, perhape they should look at the<BR>&gt;Republican-controlled house for foisting costly pork down the military's<BR>&gt;throat, such as the C17, the Seawolf, and that gaping money pit of a<BR>&gt;so-called Missile Defense System.<BR><BR>A practice that didn't originate in 1994.&nbsp; So the Dems have to take equal <BR>if not greater share.<BR>Support of Seawolf was an big issue in Clinton winning the Connecticut <BR>primary back in 92.<BR>The much quoted Clinton downsizing of government came at great expense to <BR>the US Military,<BR>he actually added layers to the federal executive branch.<BR><BR>&gt;Polls showed repeatedly that had Clinton been able to and willing to run<BR>&gt;again, he would have won this election hands down. So much for the<BR>&gt;"significant section of the US population that rates President William<BR>&gt;Jefferson (i.e. Billy Jeff) Clinton lower than President Nixon."<BR><BR>The important polls (i.e. the elections) showed that the Clinton win in 92 <BR>was due to Perot splitting the right of center vote.<BR>Remember that Clinton never got a majority vote for President.&nbsp; His so <BR>called "landslide" in 96 was in the electoral college, his numbers in the <BR>popular vote were very low. Under one quarter of eligible voters were fired <BR>up enough about him to bother and vote for him.<BR>Could he have beaten GWB in an election?&nbsp; Probably, he is a fantastic <BR>campaigner and GWB is obviously not.<BR>GWB is probably underrated, he did beat Democrat Ann Richards, who is <BR>considered one of the party's heavyweights.<BR>He is not in Clinton's class though, no one is.<BR><BR>Clinton is easily the best campaigner to hit American Presidential politics <BR>in the last 50 years.<BR>He has however, weaken the office through his actions and cheapen the image <BR>of office.<BR>Major Coke Dealers invited to fund raising coffees in the White House, <BR>granting Top Secret Clearance to agents of hostile foreign governments, and <BR>personal smears of the lowest sort.<BR>President Clinton managed not to screw up the economy during prosperous <BR>times.&nbsp; That and a charisma score in the DemiGod range are his two major <BR>points.<BR><BR>You can rant about Nixon's evils as long as anybody else can rant about <BR>Clinton's evils.<BR>It's one of our rights as Americans to rant (and Dennis Miller is a fine <BR>example of the American Right to Rant).<BR>Bottom line, the impeachment case against Nixon consisted of One <BR>presidential lie; one invocation of presidential privilege, and zero <BR>criminal offences.&nbsp;&nbsp; Very similar to the case against Clinton.<BR><BR><BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>Monday special, two valiums with a coffee chaser.<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3430<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3431</B></TD></TR>
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<TD>12/19/00 4:02:50 PM Pacific Standard Time</TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, December 19 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3431<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Odd weapons question<BR>Re: Reft sector X-boat link<BR>Re: passport application<BR>Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>Re: Traveller related (really!!)<BR>Re: Jump Emergence (was re: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: Traveller related (really!!)<BR>RE: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: Skill Inflation (was Re: (1) KB3 Traveller System (Playtest))<BR>Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR>Re: Trans-Atlantic Invasion<BR>Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR>Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR>Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>Re: Traveller related (really!!)<BR>Re: Those Damn French :)<BR>Re: Reft sector X-boat link<BR>Re: Jump emergence<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:13:26 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Odd weapons question<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Sorry, but at space combat ranges you *don't* know where the ship<BR>&gt; is.&nbsp; You know where it *was*, and you aim a number of shots at spots<BR>&gt; it may have moved to by the time the shots arrive.<BR><BR>Yes, that's right.&nbsp; That makes it useful to fire many lasers in<BR>slightly different directions.&nbsp; However, *should you want to*, you<BR>could fire all beams at the same spot.&nbsp; Lowering your chance of<BR>hitting, but increasing the damage if you do.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; And in fact, you *do* miss the target 99% or more of the time.<BR><BR>Yes -- that's why I keep saying that if you *do* manage to hit the<BR>enemy at all, the hard work is already done.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Actually, that makes point a problem as tiny changes in aim or timing<BR>&gt; generate *huge* changes in the point of convergence. It gets *harder*<BR>&gt; the farther away the target is. <BR><BR>Timing, no.&nbsp; 100 ns is 100 ns, no matter what range you're at.&nbsp; Aim,<BR>yes.&nbsp; But that applies equally to single-laser firing.&nbsp; As I said, *if<BR>you can hit at all*, then putting multiple beams in the same spot is<BR>easy.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Fire a spread of hundreds of pulses scattered over the "possible<BR>&gt; positions" circle. With any luck, one or more will hit.<BR><BR>Yep, and you don't know which one will.&nbsp; That's why it's not<BR>necessarily a *good* idea to 'put all eggs into one basket' by<BR>converging all the beams to each 'test' fire point.&nbsp; But still<BR>possible.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:16:23 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Reft sector X-boat link<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt; The hard part is keeping track of the planetary positions. Even if you<BR>&gt; restrict it to 2d (ie all systems are in the same plane) you need to<BR>&gt; know where the planet is along its orbit. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Then again, that's something that really should be kept track of<BR>&gt; anyway. But it'll be a pain.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Some day I may get around to writing a program that can track and<BR>&gt; display this sort of thing. <BR><BR>I'm already writing one, in 3D.&nbsp; It can already calculate jump masking<BR>and accel/decel vectors and times for various thruster statistics.<BR>Just can't display it yet.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 13:15:19 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: passport application<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; At 4:15 PM -0800 12/18/00, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Seriously, I think you need to talk to a lawyer. They *don't* have the<BR>&gt;&gt;right to force you to put your life on hold while they "investigate".<BR>&gt;&gt;Making you unable to work (to name but one effect) isn't something they<BR>&gt;&gt;can do for any great period of time without compensating you.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; In brief, yes, I had a leap of lawyers on this right away.&nbsp; Forcing <BR>&gt; the DOS to make an immediate decision would be a) extremely <BR>&gt; expensive, b) not necessarily possible, and c) could well influence <BR>&gt; their decision in a non-positive way ;)&nbsp; Fortunately, I'm all about <BR>&gt; patience.<BR><BR>No, no! The idea isn't to force a decision. It's to enforce your<BR>*right* of "innocent until *proven* guilty". They can take all the time<BR>investigating that they want (well, actually, I bet there are legal<BR>limits on that). But they can't make you put your life on hold while<BR>they investigate!<BR><BR>At the very least, they need to provide you with certified copies of<BR>those originals you submitted, so that you can get live in a more or<BR>less normal manner. <BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Keep in mind that there's a *lot* of awareness out there these days<BR>&gt;&gt;regarding the way the bureacrats are abusing citizens over this sort of<BR>&gt;&gt;thing.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Ah, but am I a citizen, or a sly &amp; selfish alien?<BR><BR>The point is that until they can *prove* you aren't a citizen, they are<BR>*required* to treat you like a citizen. That's been demonstrated in<BR>court time after time.<BR><BR>Since you say lawyers are already involved, be sure to check with them<BR>regarding what sort of records you need to keep of the ways in which<BR>all this has interfered with your life, your education, and your<BR>livelihood. That way, after you are found to be a citizen, you can sue<BR>them for the inconvenience.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 22:20 +0000 (GMT)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;01219.023452.0l1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>STOP IT!!!! I'm getting jealous... English firearm laws have deprived me <BR>of one of my pleasures. I haven't fired a rifle since 1996 - grrrrr.<BR><BR>Wish I could think of a good excuse to visit Oregon...<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:23:24 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt; Sorry, but that's invoking "magic" as an explanation. The point being<BR>&gt; that since it is canonical that the astrogator doesn't know how long<BR>&gt; the jump will take, then it's *impossible* for him to do that.<BR><BR>The astrogator doesn't necessarily need to know how long it takes.<BR>The whole point is to end up in the right spot *regardless*.&nbsp; Maybe<BR>part of the (abstracted for game purposes) jump calculations is<BR>establishing the velocity with which the jump exit point moves.<BR><BR>&nbsp; <BR>&gt; Remember, it *is* canonical that you make the jump calcs, and then<BR>&gt; jump, after which point you can't do *anything* to affect when/where<BR>&gt; you exit.<BR><BR>That's fine.&nbsp; The astrogator knows the velocity of the target planet.<BR>She does the jump calculations to match the exit path to the planet's<BR>path, or just picks something for an "empty space" jump.&nbsp; Then jumps,<BR>using those calculations.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt; The astrogator told it.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; You have *got* to be kidding. That's not an answer. That's a circular<BR>&gt; argument. You are saying that it knows because it knows. <BR><BR>No, it knows because the astrogator knows that she's going to a planet<BR>(or not), did the calculations based on that knowledge, and set up the<BR>jump drive machinery based on those calculations.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; The problem is that being able to "steer" the way you propose requires<BR>&gt; that the drive somehow be "intelligent". That it, is has to be able to<BR>&gt; "act" upon information THAT THE ASTROGATOR DOESN'T HAVE.<BR><BR>Which information is that?&nbsp; As far as I can see, it only requires<BR>knowing the velocity vector of the target.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; I have *one* case, and it works with everything.<BR><BR>Same here.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 14:34:32 -0800<BR>From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller related (really!!)<BR><BR>&gt; I've been reading this sorta casually for a couple of days now. I think<BR>the<BR>&gt; example of Prince Andrew flying helicopters in the Falklands is a clear<BR>&gt; example that could be used. It seems to me that when a noble is sworn into<BR>&gt; the military they take an oath to follow the orders of the officers<BR>&gt; appointed over them. This will not be an option and if it becomes a<BR>problem<BR>&gt; of *state* then s/he will either be discharged or reassigned back to the<BR>&gt; palace.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Except that the Imperial nobility has much more REAL political power than<BR>the English Monachy.&nbsp; Consider instead, the Prussian army of Frederick the<BR>Great's time, where the officer ranks were the preserve of the aristocracy,<BR>with commoners rare, and mostly found in the specialist branches.<BR><BR>Tod<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:34:30 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump Emergence (was re: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>Bruce Macintosh wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; The answer I've suggested several times before - which makes by far<BR>&gt; the most sense - is that your emergence point moves at a velocity<BR>&gt; equal to the velocity you had when you entered jumpspace.<BR><BR>Makes sense to me.&nbsp; How does travel time interact with jump masking?<BR><BR>Say your exit-point velocity is 1000 km/s toward the center of the<BR>planet.&nbsp; Say your planned exit point is right on the edge of the 100D<BR>limit.&nbsp; It's clear enough that if you arrive early, you'll be further<BR>from the planet than you planned.<BR><BR>But what if you arrive late?&nbsp; You can't exit jump any closer to the<BR>planet due to the 100D limit.&nbsp; *Can* you arrive late?<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 14:38:07 -0800<BR>From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>&gt; STOP IT!!!! I'm getting jealous... English firearm laws have deprived me<BR>&gt; of one of my pleasures. I haven't fired a rifle since 1996 - grrrrr.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Wish I could think of a good excuse to visit Oregon...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Hugs and kisses,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Mexal.<BR><BR>Come to Oregon, and we will let you shoot machineguns.&nbsp; Next fun shoot is in<BR>May 2001. Two full days of full auto fun.<BR><BR>Tod<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:42:06 -0500<BR>From: "Thom Harris" &lt;thomharr@mediaone.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller related (really!!)<BR><BR>Consider Napoleon.....what aristocracy did he belong too or his officers? In<BR>olden times Kings led their armies into battle, but things change.<BR><BR>Thom Harris - GOFIR - &lt;Gnarly Old Fart In Residence&gt;<BR>"I spent most of my money on Wine, Women and Song; the rest I just wasted."<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 5:34 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller related (really!!)<BR><BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; I've been reading this sorta casually for a couple of days now. I think<BR>&gt; the<BR>&gt; &gt; example of Prince Andrew flying helicopters in the Falklands is a clear<BR>&gt; &gt; example that could be used. It seems to me that when a noble is sworn<BR>into<BR>&gt; &gt; the military they take an oath to follow the orders of the officers<BR>&gt; &gt; appointed over them. This will not be an option and if it becomes a<BR>&gt; problem<BR>&gt; &gt; of *state* then s/he will either be discharged or reassigned back to the<BR>&gt; &gt; palace.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Except that the Imperial nobility has much more REAL political power than<BR>&gt; the English Monachy.&nbsp; Consider instead, the Prussian army of Frederick the<BR>&gt; Great's time, where the officer ranks were the preserve of the<BR>aristocracy,<BR>&gt; with commoners rare, and mostly found in the specialist branches.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Tod<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 14:51:59 -0800<BR>From: "Jesse Degraff" &lt;jedegraf@cisco.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>And firing machine guns isn't a good enough excuse?&nbsp; ;)<BR>Jesse<BR><BR>"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety<BR>deserve neither liberty nor safety."<BR>- -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759<BR><BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Megan Robertson<BR>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 2:20 PM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Cc: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground<BR>&gt; Forces))<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; In-Reply-To: &lt;01219.023452.0l1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Greetings dear hearts.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; STOP IT!!!! I'm getting jealous... English firearm laws have deprived me<BR>&gt; of one of my pleasures. I haven't fired a rifle since 1996 - grrrrr.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Wish I could think of a good excuse to visit Oregon...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Hugs and kisses,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Mexal.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:58:01 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Skill Inflation (was Re: (1) KB3 Traveller System (Playtest))<BR><BR>trentfs@ix.netcom.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I like this a lot.&nbsp; As Kenneth mentioned (in a totally unrelated post) the best feature of Trav char-gen is that it's almost an adventure in itself.&nbsp; It would be even moreso if we could graft onto it some sort of a 'Lifepath' (like in R. Talsorian's games (i.e. Mekton, Cyberpunk)) which allowed characters to accumulate friends/enemies/contacts by year in addition to skills/decorations.<BR><BR>Nice idea.<BR><BR>If you have been reading the "Revisiting the Traveller Adventure" posts I've been posting, you may be able to see that some of that background with Shawn Grey was developed and written BECAUSE of chargen.<BR><BR>The guy who rolled up Shawn did two years in the Marines, then 12 years in the Merchants, then another 8 in the Army. (Yes, I allow characters to change careers--at a penalty)<BR><BR>You'll see the background of the game wrapped around that process of character generation we went through.&nbsp; You'll also see how other aspects of the background were determined/created because of the chargen process that other characters went through.<BR><BR>Any system that inspires this kind of creativity had *got* to be doing something right.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:11:25 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR><BR>I love this friggin' list.<BR><BR>No, let me take two steps back, clear my throat, and yell--<BR><BR>I LOVE THIS FRIGGIN' LIST!!!<BR><BR>Great question, Eris.<BR><BR>Eris Reddoch wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Suppose Piter is trying to force a stuck hatch open. There's no<BR>&gt; &gt; real skill involved here, it's just brute force. Piter has a Str<BR>&gt; &gt; of 8 and the Ref decides that forcing the hatch is a Difficult<BR>&gt; &gt; task.&nbsp; How does KB3 handle this?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I'm good that way. &lt;g&gt; I hope you don't mind me doing this, I<BR>&gt; really *do* mean these as constructive questions.<BR><BR>Hell no!&nbsp; As a matter of fact, as I finished that post in answer to your question this morning, I<BR>knew there was something wrong...I had a wrinkle to iron out.<BR><BR>I thought about it in the car as I made my meetings today (what?&nbsp; think about work?&nbsp; Shit no!&nbsp; I've<BR>got Traveller on my mind!)<BR><BR>What I friggin' love about this list is that--without even playing session one with KB3, I've<BR>already ironed out two wrinkles in KB3's process (this one and the one about measuring your roll).<BR><BR>I'll elaborate below.<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; Okay, but now let me toss you the next part of my question. &lt;g&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Piter's friend, Rnold is a very strong fellow, he has an Str of<BR>&gt; 14, and he grabs that hatch wheel and gives it a mighty yank. I<BR>&gt; take it he still rolls the default 1d6 on his Lifting task?&nbsp; How<BR>&gt; is Rnold's 14 helping him here?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; He may not fail as badly as Piter, but he is still going to fail<BR>&gt; as *often* isn't he?<BR><BR>EXACTLY right, Eris.<BR><BR>THAT'S what I was talking about above.&nbsp; If a dude's got a Str of 15, and another dude's got a Str of<BR>7--the Str 15 dude will sure as hell have a better chance of bashing in a door than the guy with a<BR>Str 7.<BR><BR>There's just no getting around that.<BR><BR>So...as I finished that earlier post in answer of your question, I started thinking.<BR><BR>My first inclination was to go with an MT-kind of idea....make the Stats have skill levels in<BR>someway...divide Stat by 3, drop fractions...whatever that number is, THAT'S you attribute "skill<BR>level"...and treat the roll just like a regular Task Skill from there on out.<BR><BR>But, there's a lot of problems with that kind of thinking.&nbsp; It's too much--too complex.&nbsp; KB3 is<BR>designed to get away from stuff like that.&nbsp; KB3 is simple rules/easy application/detailed outcomes.<BR><BR>And, all these other questions come up...what if the character had a skill, like Athletics, but he<BR>does better dividing his Stat by 3?&nbsp; Blah..blah..blah..blah...<BR><BR>That wasn't the way to go.<BR><BR>Which way should you go?<BR><BR>Read the next post.&nbsp; I'll show you how attribute checks should be made in KB3...<BR><BR>(continued next post...this one's getting long...)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 18:12:19 -0500<BR>From: knightsky@juno.com<BR>Subject: Re: Trans-Atlantic Invasion<BR><BR>&gt; Lots of interesting questions.&nbsp; And is military toilet paper still <BR>&gt; as rough<BR>&gt; in the 53rd centory as it is today?<BR><BR>Yep, and the K-Rats are still just as bad.<BR><BR><BR>Perry<BR>"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>________________________________________________________________<BR>GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!<BR>Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!<BR>Join Juno today!&nbsp; For your FREE software, visit:<BR>http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:26:09 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR><BR>(...this is the continued post...)<BR><BR><BR>So, how do you do an attribute check in KB3?<BR><BR>Simple.<BR><BR>You go about it EXACTLY as I indicated in my first post to you...(Default skills and what-not)...but<BR>you use a DIE MODIFIER for the throw.<BR><BR>I haven't mentioned this in a KB3 post yet (I think I haven't), but all all DMs under the KB3 system<BR>are applied to the Difficulty Throw...not the Task Throw.&nbsp; The T throw always remains as<BR>is--conditions that benefit or hinder this throw modify the difficulty.&nbsp; (i.e.&nbsp; The difficulty of a<BR>throw gets easier when there are conditions in your favor....or the D throw gets harder when you<BR>have conditions that work against you.)<BR><BR>The DM on an attribute throw is the Stat itself...subtract this from your difficulty.&nbsp; That way,<BR>there WILL be a difference between the dude with the Str 15 and the dude with the Str 7...there will<BR>be A LOT of difference, because the difficulty is modified so.<BR><BR>So, with that explanation of how DMs are used in the game, let's go back to your original question<BR>and see how it plays out.&nbsp; I'll use your exact example, and I'll use the same die throws I made in<BR>answering you the first time.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Piter needs to jerk open a hatch that seems to be stuck.&nbsp; He doesn't have a skill in this area (I'd<BR>let the Athletics skill be used on this throw, but Piter doesn't have that skill), so we've got to<BR>go with a Default Skill.&nbsp; Piter gets to roll 1D.<BR><BR>The GM has decided that it is a Difficult task to pull that hatch open.&nbsp; The D throw will be made on<BR>3D.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Piter throws a "5"<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; D throw is made..."6" on the E-Die....total is 18 (as it was in the previous example on<BR>the other post).&nbsp; But, we've got to use the modifier for attribute checks.&nbsp; Piter's Str is 8.&nbsp; This<BR>is subtracted from the roll.&nbsp; The total of the D throw is 10.<BR><BR><BR>Piter still couldn't get that damn hatch open, but he only rolled a regular Failure this time (as<BR>opposed to the first exmaple).&nbsp; To get a Greater Failure result, he would have had to roll a 1 or<BR>less.<BR><BR><BR>So, whaddaya think o' dat?<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:34:11 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR><BR>Eris Reddoch wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Ken, so far KB3 looks interesting. The opposed rolls for<BR>&gt; everything are a problem for me to deal with in my PBEM's,&nbsp; I end<BR>&gt; up rolling both sides of the contest.<BR><BR>Well...what do you do when the player needs to roll something in your PBEM?&nbsp; Don't you roll for your<BR>players anyway?<BR><BR>You could also get one of those net-dice roller thingys, where your PBEM players could roll<BR>electronically and e-mail it to you.<BR><BR>It seems to me you're doing all the rollin' for you PBEM with or without KB3...am I right?<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; &lt;g&gt; I can see where doing<BR>&gt; this FTF would be fun, though.<BR><BR>We like the back and forth nature of this kind of rolling in my game.&nbsp; It's fun.&nbsp; I picked it up<BR>playing Star Wars, and I noticed that there is even a similar optional rule like this now in<BR>D&amp;D3--where a player rolls to hit and a roll is made for AC.<BR><BR>Dicing like this in our games has really added a lot to it.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; As a metagame issue, do you feel it is going to engender a<BR>&gt; feeling of competition between the players and the Ref to have<BR>&gt; him rolling against them on every turn?&nbsp; Yes, I know that feeling<BR>&gt; is already there in most games, so I mean more than exists<BR>&gt; already, of course. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Excellent thought.&nbsp; It hasn't hampered our game--in fact, like I just said above, it's made it more<BR>fun.&nbsp; Dice throws are more of a contest now.&nbsp; Players "feel" more of it...instead of rolling against<BR>some arbritray target number.<BR><BR>You can feel the give and take...the excitement or apprehension a character has when trying to<BR>accomplish something.<BR><BR>It's just down right fun!&nbsp; (Traveller on Craps!)<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:40:43 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I haven't mentioned this in a KB3 post yet (I think I haven't), but all all DMs under the KB3 system<BR>&gt; are applied to the Difficulty Throw...<BR><BR>(snip my own post)<BR><BR><BR>I think this is obvious, but just to mention it:&nbsp; If your Difficulty on a KB3 Task Throw ever results in<BR>a 0 or less, you've got yourself an AUTOMATIC SUCCESS.<BR><BR>You should always roll your D throws, though, even when faced with high DMs that will reduce your total,<BR>simply because of the effect the E-Die can have.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 15:43:43 -0800<BR>From: Gordon Horne &lt;gordon.horne@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson and Timothy Little discussed:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; The problem is that being able to "steer" the way you propose requires<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; that the drive somehow be "intelligent". That it, is has to be able to<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; "act" upon information THAT THE ASTROGATOR DOESN'T HAVE.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Which information is that?&nbsp; As far as I can see, it only requires<BR>&gt;knowing the velocity vector of the target.<BR><BR>The time spent in jump is unknown.<BR>The astrogator knows the target is at point P1 at time T1 and has velocity V.<BR>The target will be at point P2 = P1 + (V * dT) at time T2 which is T1 + dT.<BR>Unfortunately, dT (the time spent in jump) is unknown for any jump.<BR><BR>TTFN<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; g<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 15:48:25 -0800<BR>From: "David P. Summers" &lt;summers@alum.mit.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller related (really!!)<BR><BR>At 2:34 PM -0800 12/19/00, Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; I've been reading this sorta casually for a couple of days now. I think<BR>&gt;the<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; example of Prince Andrew flying helicopters in the Falklands is a clear<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; example that could be used. It seems to me that when a noble is sworn into<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; the military they take an oath to follow the orders of the officers<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; appointed over them. This will not be an option and if it becomes a<BR>&gt;problem<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; of *state* then s/he will either be discharged or reassigned back to the<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; palace.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Except that the Imperial nobility has much more REAL political power than<BR>&gt;the English Monachy.&nbsp; Consider instead, the Prussian army of Frederick the<BR>&gt;Great's time, where the officer ranks were the preserve of the aristocracy,<BR>&gt;with commoners rare, and mostly found in the specialist branches.<BR><BR><BR>If the nobility accepts that noble can have a low rank, then<BR>presumably they accept that right of the officers to give them<BR>orders.&nbsp; Of course they may also mitigate this by pulling strings<BR>to get nobles higher commissions.&nbsp; I suspect that a noble family<BR>may take exception (at least informally) if they think an officer<BR>is mistreating the family member and officers may be tempted to<BR>curry favor with the noble family in their treatments.<BR><BR>______________________________<BR>summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>(This is the net.&nbsp; My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 15:51:50 -0800<BR>From: "David P. Summers" &lt;summers@alum.mit.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Those Damn French :)<BR><BR>At 3:13 PM -0500 12/19/00, Mark Urbin wrote:<BR>&gt;If we didn't feel this way toward the French, then the French would <BR>&gt;absolutely no respect for us. :-}<BR><BR>My father has a story about how, in Paris, he got fed up with<BR>the waiters and started sending things back.&nbsp; He says the service<BR>improved dramatically.<BR><BR>______________________________<BR>summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>(This is the net.&nbsp; My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 15:55:34 -0800<BR>From: Gordon Horne &lt;gordon.horne@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Reft sector X-boat link<BR><BR>&gt;[snip]<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; For velocity, my take is that it's conserved.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Conserved in which sense?&nbsp; Conserved w.r.t. an absolute frame of<BR>&gt;reference, or conserved in the 'parallel transport' sense of<BR>&gt;relativity?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; This means that for any pair of worlds, there will be preferred jump<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; entry and exit points, so as to save some fuel by jumping with the<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; "ideal" vector.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Yes.&nbsp; The tables seem to assume accelerating and decelerating to the<BR>&gt;jump point, making the jump then accelerating and decelerating to the<BR>&gt;target planet.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;If velocity is conserved, that's inefficient.&nbsp; You accelerate to the<BR>&gt;jump point, jump with a conserved velocity of a few hundred km/s, then<BR>&gt;decelerate on approach to the planet.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;[snip]<BR><BR><BR>According to Marc Miller's Jump Space article in the Journal (can't <BR>find the issue number offhand) velocity is conserved. He is not clear <BR>whether this includes the relative velocities of the departure and <BR>destination points. The tables do appear to be inefficient. I am <BR>shocked and appalled that two pieces of canon conflict. I'm shocked <BR>and appalled an awful lot 8^)<BR><BR>[snip]<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; I imagine that some companies will go to the trouble of doing "military<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; style" extended jump calcs just to get the reduction in uncertainty of<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; arrival time (minutes to hiurs, rather than hours to days).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I didn't know there was such a thing.&nbsp; Any references I might have<BR>&gt;missed?<BR><BR>Yup 8^) I believe it's in the same Jump Space article i mentioned <BR>above. It's around here /somewhere/.<BR><BR>TTFN<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; g<BR>- -- <BR>=============================================<BR>"Any referee or gamemaster in a space based RPG that<BR>cannot wipe out an entire party of player characters<BR>without resorting to 'bad guys with guns' just isn't trying."<BR>=============================================<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 01:01:38 +0100<BR>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen &lt;rancke@diku.dk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson writes:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;"It" doesn't know anything, of course. It's simply a function of jump<BR>&gt;&gt;navigation. The astrogator includes some function that compensates for time<BR>&gt;&gt;lapse. Or something. Don't ask me, I'm not an astrogator.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Sorry, but that's invoking "magic" as an explanation. The point being<BR>&gt;that since it is canonical that the astrogator doesn't know how long<BR>&gt;the jump will take, then it's *impossible* for him to do that.<BR><BR>Since no one knows how jump navigation works, you can't say for sure whether<BR>it involves a time-dependent function or not. I see nothing impossible there.<BR>&nbsp; <BR>&gt;Remember, it *is* canonical that you make the jump calcs, and then<BR>&gt;jump, after which point you can't do *anything* to affect when/where<BR>&gt;you exit.<BR><BR>It's also canonical that the emergence time is determined at the time the<BR>jump is initiated. As for when the crew finds out, I think one of the GT<BR>books has it that it is not until a few hours before emergence, but I don't<BR>thik there is anything canonical about it anywhere else. As far as the game<BR>mechanics is concerned it might be at the very instance the jump is<BR>initiated. <BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;So how does the drive know that you are jumping for a point outside the<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;planet's 100 diameter limit, rather than to a point in empty space that<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;happens to be near a planet?<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; The astrogator told it.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;You have *got* to be kidding. That's not an answer. That's a circular<BR>&gt;argument. You are saying that it knows because it knows. <BR><BR>No, I'm saying it works because the astrogator included a time-dependent<BR>function in the jump programming.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;Also, this means that fleets would wind up *more* scattered than they do.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;Because every ship would come out at a different spot relative to the<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;planet, depending on how long it was in jump,<BR><BR>No, the SAME spot relative to the planet. It seems neither of us can keep it<BR>straight. I know what you mean, though.<BR><BR>&gt;The problem is that being able to "steer" the way you propose requires<BR>&gt;that the drive somehow be "intelligent". That it, is has to be able to<BR>&gt;"act" upon information THAT THE ASTROGATOR DOESN'T HAVE. And, that, in<BR>&gt;fact, the rules make quite clear he *cannot* have.<BR><BR>I don't see that.<BR><BR>&gt;Your version violates Occam's razor *badly*. Because every time a<BR>&gt;discrepancy is pointed out, you add new postulates to compensate. <BR><BR>You still haven't pointed out a discrepancy.<BR><BR>&gt;My version makes a *minimum* set of assumptions and goes from there.<BR><BR>The key point is that it is a set of assumptions, yet in your original post<BR>you stated them as canonical facts. I pointed out that your interpretation<BR>was not canon and, indeed, whatever evidence there were was against you. Now,<BR>your assumptions may be excellent assumptions, but they are not canon.<BR><BR>&gt;Yours can be twisted around any way someone wants to, because it<BR>&gt;doesn't really have rules, just "make it work the way I want to". <BR><BR>Pardon me, my version does indeed have rules. The basic rules for jump<BR>travel to be precise.<BR><BR>&gt;The best example is that you had to postulate two cases, then add a<BR>&gt;*third* for fleets. With *no* justification other than trying to avoid<BR>&gt;the questions I brought up.<BR><BR>Simmer down, Leonard. Take a little walk. Sniff some flowers. Listen to some<BR>music. Then reread the above sentence and consider whether following the<BR>rules isn't a teeny bit of justification?<BR><BR>&gt;That's not a "rule" or "game mechanic".<BR><BR>On the contrary, that's _precisely_ what it is.<BR><BR><BR>Hans<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3431<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, December 19 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3432<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of DespisingEach O ther in&nbsp;&nbsp; General<BR>Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of DespisingEach O ther&nbsp; in&nbsp; General<BR>Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising Each Other in General<BR>(1) KB3 Examples<BR>Re: KB3 Question: whiny<BR>(2) KB3 Examples<BR>Re: Skill Inflation (was Re: (1) KB3 Traveller System (Playtest))<BR>(3) KB3 Examples<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3417<BR>Re: Damn, it's a big country! (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground<BR>Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>Re: Noble vs. military rank<BR>(4) KB3 Examples<BR>Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR>Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:05:24 -0800<BR>From: "David P. Summers" &lt;summers@alum.mit.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of DespisingEach O ther in&nbsp;&nbsp; General<BR><BR>At 1:31 PM -0700 12/19/00, Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>&gt;Clinton got caught with his pants down, literally. His _biggest_ crime<BR>&gt;was being elected as a Democrat when the Republicans thought that they<BR>&gt;owned 1600 Pennsylvania. They never forgave him that, even though the<BR>&gt;American public largely did. (At least enough to send him there for two<BR>&gt;terms.) Hell as it is the R's just _barely_ won it this time. \<BR><BR>While I consider Clinton to be, at least in magnitude, not a "Nixon"<BR>and while I can see that people sincerly don't consider his transgressions<BR>to be worthy of impeachment, I think that lying to a court of law<BR>and to the American people to be significant.&nbsp; I will also point<BR>out that if Clarence Thomas was guilty of sexual harrasment sufficient<BR>to call into question his fitness to serve on the supreme court, then<BR>I think similar wrong doing on part of the president is sufficient<BR>to generate justified outrage.<BR><BR>&gt;Polls showed repeatedly that had Clinton been able to and willing to run<BR>&gt;again, he would have won this election hands down.<BR><BR>Not the ones I saw.&nbsp; There maybe some now because a hard fought<BR>campaign always bruises those involved (the best way to look like<BR>a good candidate is to not run for anything, look at how people<BR>were talking about Bush before the campaign) and people have begun<BR>to forget about what Clinton did.&nbsp; If he had to campaign and drag<BR>all that out again, it would be a different story.&nbsp; "Clinton<BR>Fatigue" is very real and Clinton is fooling himself if he<BR>thinks he could have gotten reelected.<BR><BR>______________________________<BR>summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>(This is the net.&nbsp; My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:10:41 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of DespisingEach O ther&nbsp; in&nbsp; General<BR><BR>Yes, but the break-in to Daniel Ellsberg's phychaiatrists office was one<BR>of the Plumbers jobs _before_ Watergate. <BR><BR>While it's true that Tet was in '68, and thus on LBJ's watch, the<BR>release of the Pentagon Papers were very much on Nixon's. That's when<BR>the American public at large started learning how much they had been<BR>lied to, and had been lied to by 4 presidents... <BR><BR>_That's_ what the breakins concerned...they were looking for ways to<BR>discredit Ellsberg and the New York Times, which was publishing them<BR>despite Nixon ordering them not to...<BR><BR>It is true that Nixon did eventually get us out of Vietnam. I think RFK<BR>would have done it a hell of a lot sooner, but that's another alternate<BR>historical kettle of fish...<BR><BR>On the whole, though, had Nixon cut his losses on Watergate, and come<BR>clean at the very beginning, he'd never have come close to having to<BR>resign. IF he could get around that whole prior knowledge thing. <BR><BR>The evidence is strong that Nixon knew all along about CREEP, the<BR>plumbers and their capers...He knew all about the Ellsberg break-in and<BR>that was _before_ Watergate.<BR><BR>Still, had he come right out and said "This was a mistake, and I<BR>apologize to the American People." right now he'd be remembered<BR>primarily for the greatest two achievements of his political career:<BR>starting the thaw in the Cold War, with first tentative disarmament<BR>treaties, and re-establishing relations with China. These were BIG<BR>THINGS.&nbsp; <BR><BR>If only....but that's in the same old kettle of alt-historical fish. He<BR>was a reasonably good president on the whole, brought down by his innate<BR>paranoia, and determination to get even with his enemies, traits he'd<BR>displayed all his life.<BR><BR><BR>Thom Harris wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Uh, Nixon ran on a ticket to shut down Vietnam and the Tet offensive was<BR>&gt; January 68'. Nixon wasn't elected until November of that year, so it was<BR>&gt; Johnson caught with his pants down. What Nixon tried to *cover-up* was the<BR>&gt; break-in and bugging of the Democratic HQ's in the Watergate hotel. He lied<BR>&gt; about *when* he found out about it and the subsequent cover-up. He didn't<BR>&gt; order it and didn't find out about it until after the Washington Post put it<BR>&gt; on their front page. He did however, get us out of Vietnam!!!! He began<BR>&gt; pulling troops out in 72', before Watergate even happened. No, I'm not a<BR>&gt; Republican, I just like history and it just so happened that I went into the<BR>&gt; Army in 69' so I was very concerned about Vietnam.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 22:24:05 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising Each Other in General<BR><BR>At 17:11 -0500 19/12/00,&nbsp; Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;You can rant about Nixon's evils as long as anybody else can rant about<BR>&gt;Clinton's evils.<BR>&gt;It's one of our rights as Americans to rant (and Dennis Miller is a fine<BR>&gt;example of the American Right to Rant).<BR><BR>And I'm sure you're violating my human rights under European law by <BR>ranting here on this list about something other than Traveller ;-) <BR>&lt;grin&gt;<BR><BR>Dom (wibble.... more US political discussion on a mailing list... wibble)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 18:17:54 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: (1) KB3 Examples<BR><BR>Just to see the system in play, here is the first of four examples.<BR>I'll use characters from my own game, and I'm going to actually throw<BR>dice as I write, recording the result.<BR><BR><BR>For easy reference, here's the Difficulty Table:<BR><BR><BR>Difficulty Table<BR>- --------------------------------------<BR>1D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Level 1 Difficulty&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Easy<BR>2D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Level 2 Difficulty&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Average<BR>3D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Level 3 Difficulty&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Difficult<BR>4D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Level 4 Difficulty&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Formidable<BR>5D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Level 5 Difficulty&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Staggering<BR>6D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Level 6 Difficulty&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Impossible<BR><BR><BR><BR>EXAMPLE (1)<BR>Gvoudzon the one-eyed Vargr goes into hand-to-hand combat with Baron<BR>Vaan Preygor (my money's on Gvoudzon, but we'll see what happens based<BR>on the dice throws).<BR><BR>Gvoudzon has Str 7, Infighting-1<BR>Preygor has Str 5 and no hand-to-hand fighting skill<BR><BR>Gvoudzon is upset because Preygor called him a "puppy dog".&nbsp; Gvoudzon<BR>takes a swing...<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; TASK THROW:&nbsp; Gvoudzon rolls 2D....."3" and "3".....total is 6.<BR><BR>Preygor defends himself.&nbsp; He doesn't have Brawling or any other skill,<BR>but Brawling is a Default Skill.&nbsp; It's not on his sheet, but he's<BR>considered as having Brawling-0.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; DIFFICULTY THROW:&nbsp; Preygor rolls 1D (which has to be the<BR>E-Die):&nbsp; "1"&nbsp;&nbsp; ...&nbsp;&nbsp; under the E-Die rule, a "1" states that you remove<BR>all odd numbered dice from the throw.&nbsp; Preygor's total is "0".&nbsp; And,<BR>because this is an Opposed Throw, it is subject to being measured (where<BR>as regular Difficulty Throws are not).&nbsp; A "0" result on a Task Throw<BR>means that the character has fumbled--a MISHAP has occured.....total is<BR>0.....MISHAP.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; OUTCOME:&nbsp; The GM decides that Preygor didn't think Gvoudzon<BR>was serious and didn't react quick enough to protect himself.&nbsp; Gvoudzon<BR>was successful with the hit ("3" beats "0"), and because of the Mishap,<BR>Gvoudzon is allowed to apply an extra die of damage (Damn!&nbsp; What a<BR>hit!).&nbsp; "Hands" do 1D damage, so Gvoudzon rolls his 2D of damage on<BR>Preygor.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 19:19:53 -0500<BR>From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>Subject: Re: KB3 Question: whiny<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;Eris Reddoch wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Ken, so far KB3 looks interesting. The opposed rolls for<BR>&gt;&gt; everything are a problem for me to deal with in my PBEM's,&nbsp; I end<BR>&gt;&gt; up rolling both sides of the contest.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Well...what do you do when the player needs to roll something in &gt;your PBEM?&nbsp; Don't you roll for your<BR>&gt;players anyway?<BR><BR>Same complaint, different situation:<BR><BR>In a face-to-face game, an NPC does something like, say, shooting at a PC.&nbsp; The GM then has to roll 2 sets of dice and compare them, right?&nbsp; I'm very lazy (and also very unlucky at dice) and having to roll every time a PC does something is already kind of a turn-off, but the mere thought of occasionally (frequently?) having to roll two sets of dice and compare them (with the players all staring over my shoulders to make sure I'm not cheating) is just too much!<BR><BR>But, seriously, won't this come up often?&nbsp; It seems like forcing the GM to 'roll against himself' is kind of a hassle.&nbsp; Either you have to roll and add up the results two separate times (which will slow things down) or you need 2 distinct sets of dice (+ an e-die for each set = 4 different colors/sizes of dice -- the mind boggles!*).<BR><BR>Trent<BR><BR>*Of course back in my younger days I had a big Crown Royal bag full of dice in all shapes, sizes, and colors, just like everyone else, but nowadays it's all about economy (and carrying around as few dice as possible -- why would anyone EVER need more than, say, 2 D8's or D12's?).<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 18:28:40 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: (2) KB3 Examples<BR><BR>Difficulty Table<BR>- --------------------------------------<BR>1D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Level 1 Difficulty&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Easy<BR>2D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Level 2 Difficulty&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Average<BR>3D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Level 3 Difficulty&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Difficult<BR>4D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Level 4 Difficulty&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Formidable<BR>5D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Level 5 Difficulty&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Staggering<BR>6D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Level 6 Difficulty&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Impossible<BR><BR><BR><BR>EXAMPLE (2):<BR>Frank Fornne is trying to hot-wire a ground car.&nbsp; There's nothing<BR>special about the wiring in this ground car, so the GM stipulates, "The<BR>throw is Average is you know something about Electronics or have some<BR>other applicable skill.&nbsp; Otherwise, the throw is Formidable because you<BR>are uneducated about the process needed to hot-wire the ground car."<BR><BR>Frank's player looks at his sheet.&nbsp; Luckily, Frank has Electronics-1.<BR>It is typically governed by either Edu or Int.&nbsp; The GM says, "Either<BR>stat will do.&nbsp; You can either figure it out on your own or remember from<BR>something you've read in the past. Pick whichever stat is higher."&nbsp; Both<BR>Frank's Int and Edu are 6.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; TASK THROW:&nbsp; Frank rolls 2D..."4" on the E-Die..."6" on the<BR>other...total is 10.<BR><BR>Since Frank has the Electronics skill, the GM rolls Average Difficulty.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; DIFFICULTY THROW:&nbsp; GM rolls 2D...the exact same!&nbsp; "4" on the<BR>E-Die..."6" on the other...total is 10.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; OUTCOME:&nbsp; Since Frank didn't beat the D throw, he was not<BR>successful, but the throw as a regular Failure.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 18:36:19 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Skill Inflation (was Re: (1) KB3 Traveller System (Playtest))<BR><BR>On 12/19/00 at 04:10 PM,&nbsp; trentfs@ix.netcom.com said:<BR><BR>&gt;Eris wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;I'd *rather* not divide by 2 if I could avoid it.&nbsp; I don't see End<BR>&gt;&gt;providing much help in *learning* a skill, so how about Str + Dex,<BR>&gt;&gt;(avg 14) for physical and Int + Edu (avg 14) for mental skills<BR>&gt;&gt;giving an average total of 28 skill levels.&nbsp; If we give about 1<BR>&gt;&gt;level per year (that has always seems fairly reasonable to me), an<BR>&gt;&gt;average character would be "maxing" out in their early 40's, and<BR>&gt;&gt;that fits too!&nbsp; Of course, this leaves End and Soc out of the skills<BR>&gt;&gt;derby...hum, is that a bad thing?<BR><BR>&gt;End+Soc governing points in Liaison?&nbsp; How long can you stand being<BR>&gt;in unpleasant social circumstances (e.g. your office XMas party)? <BR>&gt;Okay, maybe not -- I like the above.<BR><BR>I know what you mean. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>I'd like each of the Attributes to be important enough so no one<BR>feels really comforable ignoring it.&nbsp; END, along with STR and DEX,<BR>is used for Damage Resistance do that makes it important.&nbsp; SOC, I'm<BR>not sure how to handle...it's not charisma, it's not wealth or even<BR>status really, it's just the class you belong to...I'd drop it if<BR>Traveller wasn't so class oriented. <BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;And let the stat work as a skill level cap.&nbsp; Say half.&nbsp; So Joe<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;Average could have 10 skill levels total in mental, but the maximum<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;level of any *one* skill would be 3 or 4 (depending on rounding<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;rules).&nbsp; If the cap was 1/3rd stat, then Joe would have a max of<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;level 2 in any skill.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;That's probably a good idea, but I'd rather not have a divisor.&nbsp; I<BR>&gt;&gt;don't think leaving the skills uncapped would be too unbalancing,<BR>&gt;&gt;might need testing.<BR><BR>&gt;Something I've had kicking around a little is to give the governing<BR>&gt;stat more of a direct role in Skill Improvement.&nbsp; I'm thinking<BR>&gt;something along the lines of:<BR><BR>&gt;To Increase a Level in a Skill<BR>&gt;Formidable, (governing stat of skill)(IP), 1 day<BR>&gt;Safe<BR><BR>Good idea!&nbsp; I'd make it easier than Formidable to increase a level, though.<BR><BR>&gt;I don't remember how exactly IP worked in MT, but I have in mind<BR>&gt;gaining them for "exceptional" uses and/or (large value of)X hours<BR>&gt;of study/instruction.&nbsp; Obviously the difficulty and time variable<BR>&gt;would need to be ironed out through playtesting (with the goal of<BR>&gt;getting Average Joe 1.25 points/game year, just like he gets when<BR>&gt;everything's abstracted out).<BR><BR>Yes, that's something for playtesting.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;Perhaps this idea can be folded into Chargen as well?<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;For example:&nbsp; Army Basic Training: Brawling-0, Gun-0, Vehicle-0).<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;Merchant Training (Steward-0, Streetwise-0, Bribery-0) Things like<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;that?<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;That's exactly what I had in mind!&nbsp; <BR><BR>&gt;&gt;I'm thinking about 4 year terms with 1 free choice and 3 rolls for<BR>&gt;&gt;skills. Here's the basic idea using Navy as an example:<BR><BR>&gt;&lt;snip big, good example&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;I like this a lot.&nbsp; As Kenneth mentioned (in a totally unrelated<BR>&gt;post) the best feature of Trav char-gen is that it's almost an<BR>&gt;adventure in itself.&nbsp; It would be even moreso if we could graft<BR>&gt;onto it some sort of a 'Lifepath' (like in R. Talsorian's games<BR>&gt;(i.e. Mekton, Cyberpunk)) which allowed characters to accumulate<BR>&gt;friends/enemies/contacts by year in addition to skills/decorations. <BR><BR>Yes, I had something like the Lifepath in mind.&nbsp; Right after getting<BR>a "mission" the player would roll for events on somesort of Lifepath<BR>table related to that sort of "mission."&nbsp; <BR><BR>&gt;Another (tenuously related) change I'd like to see:&nbsp; for<BR>&gt;consistency's sake, shouldn't the rolls in char-gen be task-based? <BR>&gt;The ad-hoc nature of the rolls and mods in char-gen is clunky and<BR>&gt;doesn't fit the rest of the system.&nbsp; Why couldn't we have, for<BR>&gt;instance:<BR><BR>&gt;To enlist in the scouts<BR>&gt;Easy; End, Int (or whatever)<BR>&gt;Safe<BR><BR>&gt;To survive a term in the scouts without Mishap<BR>&gt;Difficult; Dex, Int<BR>&gt;Fateful, hazardous<BR><BR>&gt;And so on.&nbsp; I have no books in front of me so I'm sure I've got<BR>&gt;diffs, mods, and format all wrong, but hopefully my point still<BR>&gt;comes through.<BR><BR>Again, I agree. &lt;g&gt; <BR><BR>&gt;Just throwing out a couple of thigs that have been stewing in the<BR>&gt;back of my mind for the last couple of days...<BR><BR>&gt;Trent<BR><BR>&gt;P.S.&nbsp; I'm sure others disagree, but I find it much more interesting<BR>&gt;and worthwhile to brainstorm over and tinker with game mechanics<BR>&gt;than to argue about canon (or even worse, OT garbage -- I mean,<BR>&gt;come on, France-bashing!?)<BR><BR>Yeah, I don't want to argue about "canon", france, or how "damn big"<BR>the country is either. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Eris<BR><BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 18:38:41 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: (3) KB3 Examples<BR><BR>Difficulty Table<BR>- --------------------------------------<BR>1D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Level 1 Difficulty&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Easy<BR>2D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Level 2 Difficulty&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Average<BR>3D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Level 3 Difficulty&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Difficult<BR>4D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Level 4 Difficulty&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Formidable<BR>5D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Level 5 Difficulty&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Staggering<BR>6D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Level 6 Difficulty&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Impossible<BR><BR><BR><BR>EXAMPLE (3):<BR>Daeus Jacks is walking down a long, long corridor inside an atmosphere<BR>processing plant.&nbsp; At the far end, some 10 meters distant, a Zhodani<BR>pops around the corner, plants himself, and raises his laser rifle.<BR>Daeus was walking with his weapon nocked in his shoulder "at the ready",<BR>so the GM let's Daeus fire first.<BR><BR>10 meters, on the range chart, is an Average throw.&nbsp; Daeus is using an a<BR>TL11 autorifle, and he's got Rifleman-2.&nbsp; Daeus has Dex 8.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; TASK THROW:&nbsp; Daeus rolls 3D..."5"..."4"..."2"....total is 11.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; DIFFICULTY THROW:&nbsp; GM rolls the range difficulty of<BR>2D..."5"..."1" (not on E-Die)...total is 6.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; OUTCOME:&nbsp; Daeus hit!&nbsp; And, because Daeus' throw is just inside<BR>the "sweet spot" (6 + 8 = 14...sweet spot is a range of 7-14), Daeus'<BR>hit is a Greater Success!&nbsp; The GM allows him an extra die of damage.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 10:01:05 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3417<BR><BR>&gt; On 12/18/00 at 07:12 PM,&nbsp; GDWGAMES@aol.com said:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Of course, if you have ever watched<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; Eisenstein's Alexander Nevsky, your take on the Teutonic Knights<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; might be a bit jaundiced...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;Those are the guys in the white robes with the buckets over their<BR>&gt; &gt;heads?<BR><BR>Yep.&nbsp; : )<BR><BR>There is sillier headgear in an earlier Soviet film - Aelita, an SF film<BR>made around 1926.&nbsp; The oppressed Martian masses wear boxes on their heads! <BR>It's symbolic, of course, (the "boxes" are actually blinkers, like horses<BR>wear), but it still looks incredibly stupid.<BR><BR>&gt; From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>&gt; I've only seen clips of "Alexander Nevsky" on public TV. It struck me as<BR>&gt; the Russian version of "Birth of a Nation"...but what do I know. I prefer<BR>&gt; light-hearted comedies and rousing adventures where the good guys win.<BR>&gt; Serious I get on the TML.<BR><BR>It was a WW2 propaganda film: heroic Russians defeat villainous Germans. <BR>Eisenstein was working within very narrow guidelines, so it's not his best<BR>work.&nbsp; On the other hand, he was a good enough director that it is still<BR>basically an OK film.&nbsp; The musical score is wonderful - Shostakovich. <BR>(Actually, I have a vague memory that it wasn't the original score, and<BR>that a version with the original score has been restored recently.&nbsp; But the<BR>Shostakovich score is a bit of a legend in its own right.)<BR><BR>The main thing that would make it interesting to gamers is the battle<BR>scene.&nbsp; It's quite well done, despite the German knights wearing buckets on<BR>their heads.&nbsp; With the music, it raises the hair on the back on my neck.<BR><BR>It is based on historical events.&nbsp; The battle was called "The Ice<BR>Slaughter" by contemporary chroniclers.&nbsp; It was fought on a frozen-over<BR>lake (Lake Peipus), was conspicuously bloody, and something happened at the<BR>end which happens in the film too, and I don't want to spoil it.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Anyway, the bad guys lose, _spectacularly_.<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:48:39 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Damn, it's a big country! (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground<BR><BR>&gt; From: Leonard Erickson<BR>&gt; I've added population density figures...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Australia&nbsp; 7,682,300 sq km&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 17,500,000 (1991)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2.3/km^2<BR><BR>An interesting thing about Australia, and at least some of the other<BR>countries on the list I deleted, is that the population is concentrated in<BR>a handful of cities.<BR><BR>Approximate 1991 figures:<BR>Sydney 3 million<BR>Melbourne 2.7 million<BR>Brisbane 1.1 million<BR>Perth 1 million<BR>Adelaide 950K.<BR><BR>These figures don't necessarily include outlying areas that are not<BR>formally part of the cities, but are part of their suburban sprawl.<BR><BR>So let's round up a little: 9 million of the 17.5 million live in the 5<BR>biggest cities.&nbsp; I have omitted Canberra, Hobart and Darwin, none of which<BR>are particularly large.&nbsp; I could have added the Gold Coast (southeast of<BR>Brisbane), where there is an almost continuous series of small to medium<BR>size cities that together add up to another fair-sized city.<BR><BR>Basically, of the people who don't live in the big 5, the majority live in<BR>a relatively small number of reasonably large provincial cities (or in the<BR>smaller capital cities).&nbsp; Let's call that about 4.5 million, on the 1991<BR>figures.&nbsp; <BR><BR>That leaves about 4 million people to inhabit the rest of the country. <BR>Work out the population density on _that_.&nbsp; And most of them are<BR>concentrated in smaller towns...<BR><BR>OBTRAV:&nbsp; A lot of Traveller worlds have very low population densities.&nbsp; On<BR>the other hand, it is quite likely that they will support the largest<BR>cities possible.&nbsp; In other cases, they won't...<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:55:30 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Eris Reddoch wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Ken, so far KB3 looks interesting. The opposed rolls for<BR>&gt; &gt; everything are a problem for me to deal with in my PBEM's,&nbsp; I end<BR>&gt; &gt; up rolling both sides of the contest.<BR><BR>&gt; Well...what do you do when the player needs to roll something in<BR>&gt; your PBEM?&nbsp; Don't you roll for your players anyway?<BR><BR>One problem would be that player judgement in what to roll is more<BR>important with KB3, due to higher skills giving worse results in many<BR>cases.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Dice throws are more of a contest now.&nbsp; Players "feel" more of<BR>&gt; it...instead of rolling against some arbritray target number.<BR><BR>I don't see how choosing a difficulty and rolling 2D is conceptually<BR>different from choosing a difficulty and rolling some number of dice<BR>between 2 and 11.&nbsp; Both have arbitrary choice of difficulty, only the<BR>shape of the distribution changes.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:59:31 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>Gordon Horne wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; The time spent in jump is unknown.<BR><BR>That's irrelevant, as I mentioned previously.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; The astrogator knows the target is at point P1 at time T1 and has<BR>&gt; velocity V.<BR><BR>Velocity V relative to the motion of the jumpspace exit, which by<BR>appropriate calculation and consequent setting of the jump drive could<BR>be made very close to zero.&nbsp; Hence dT is irrelevant.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 01:58:32 +0100<BR>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen &lt;rancke@diku.dk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Noble vs. military rank<BR><BR>Robert Houghton writes:<BR><BR>&gt;Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;How does the 3I handle disparity of rank in the military.&nbsp; What I mean is,<BR>&gt;&gt;how does one handle a situation, say, where a non-noble colonel has command<BR>&gt;&gt;of a captain who also happens to be Marquis of Valhalla (or whatever).&nbsp; Are<BR>&gt;&gt;there formal rules and regulations to deal with this, or just custom.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Specifically, how does one maintain unity of command in this situation?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;For one answer to this question read 'Memory' by Louis McMaster Bujold...some<BR>&gt;parts deal very well with military vs noble rank in society where both are<BR>&gt;important...<BR><BR>I would also recommend the books about the Royal Navy of the Napoleonic Era by<BR>C.S.Forester, Patrick O'Brian, Dudley Pope, C.Northcote Parkinson and several<BR>others. In one of Forrester's books Hormblower has a German prince as a<BR>midshipman (and his chamberlain as Ship's Surgeon ;-). Dudley Pope's hero is the<BR>eldest son of an earl and is entitled to use his title (Lieutenant Lord Ramage),<BR>but doesn't use it in the service to avoid embarrasing any non-noble captains or<BR>admirals he serves under.<BR><BR>IMTU the IN is very much influenced by the RN. I even have the equivalent of<BR>warrant officers (which is definitely non-canonical).<BR><BR><BR>Hans&nbsp; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 18:57:33 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: (4) KB3 Examples<BR><BR>Difficulty Table<BR>- --------------------------------------<BR>1D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Level 1 Difficulty&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Easy<BR>2D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Level 2 Difficulty&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Average<BR>3D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Level 3 Difficulty&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Difficult<BR>4D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Level 4 Difficulty&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Formidable<BR>5D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Level 5 Difficulty&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Staggering<BR>6D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Level 6 Difficulty&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Impossible<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>EXAMPLE (4):<BR>That knock he took from Gvoudzon almost knocked Preygor out.&nbsp; He got up<BR>and ran down the hall.&nbsp; Gvoudzon lost all ties to reality, blew a blood<BR>vessel, and went mad chasing him, screaming a Vargr war cry from his<BR>corsair days.<BR><BR>Preygor ducked in through engineering, climbed the stairs to the second<BR>level, and hid behind the large metal spare jump coil that was sitting<BR>on the workcart next to the railing.<BR><BR>Gvoudzon rushed in, eyes ablaze, using his nose to "smell" for the<BR>human.&nbsp; Preygor knew he didn't have a lot of time.&nbsp; Gvoudzon stepped<BR>under the railing...and that's when Praygor's player says, "I want to<BR>push the jump coil off the cart onto Gvoudzon's head!"<BR><BR>"I don't know," the GM says, "that jump coil is pretty heavy.&nbsp; You might<BR>have a hard time picking it up.&nbsp; I'll say it's a Difficult task to<BR>man-handle that thing and get it over the rail without making a lot of<BR>noise.&nbsp; Give it a shot, though."<BR><BR>Preygor has no skill that can help him in this task, but that's OK.<BR>Picking something up to drop over a ledge is covered by a Default Skill,<BR>therefore, Preygor has the skill at level 0.&nbsp; Preygor can throw 1D, and<BR>the task will be governed by Str (Preygor's Str is 5).<BR><BR>And, this is an attribute check--a skill throw where the primary factor<BR>is based on one of the character's Stats, not on a Skill he might have<BR>(although the Athletics skill would really help Preygor with this).&nbsp; So,<BR>as a attribute check, a DM is used against the Difficulty Throw, based<BR>on Preygor's Str.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; TASK THROW:&nbsp; Preygor throws his 1D, which is the<BR>E-Die..."5"...his total is 5.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; DIFFICULTY THROW:&nbsp; GM throws difficulty of 3D - 5..."6" on the<BR>E-Die..."5"..."5"...(double the 6, subtract the 5, add in the other<BR>5)...total is 17.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; OUTCOME:&nbsp; Preygor bricked this roll big time.&nbsp; Not only did he<BR>fail the roll (a 5 does not beat the 17), but Preygor's throw falls<BR>outside the "safe range" for Failures (which is D throw - Stat..so<BR>Preygor would have been OK if he would have thrown a 12 or higher).<BR>Preygor's throw is a GREATER FAILURE.&nbsp; The GM says, "Alright Preygor,<BR>you gripped the jump coil and tried to pick it up, but it was heavier<BR>than you thought.&nbsp; The work cart that it was on is on wheels.&nbsp; They<BR>shift.&nbsp; You loose your grip, and the damn thing just fell on your toe!<BR>Here's 1D damage....and Gvoudzon is now heading for the stairs to climb<BR>up to your level...."<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 19:03:57 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR><BR>On 12/19/00 at 05:26 PM,&nbsp; Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;(...this is the continued post...)<BR><BR>&gt;So, how do you do an attribute check in KB3?<BR><BR>&gt;Simple.<BR><BR>&gt;You go about it EXACTLY as I indicated in my first post to<BR>&gt;you...(Default skills and what-not)...but you use a DIE MODIFIER<BR>&gt;for the throw.<BR><BR>&gt;I haven't mentioned this in a KB3 post yet (I think I haven't), but<BR>&gt;all all DMs under the KB3 system are applied to the Difficulty<BR>&gt;Throw...not the Task Throw.&nbsp; The T throw always remains as<BR>&gt;is--conditions that benefit or hinder this throw modify the<BR>&gt;difficulty.&nbsp; (i.e.&nbsp; The difficulty of a throw gets easier when<BR>&gt;there are conditions in your favor....or the D throw gets harder<BR>&gt;when you have conditions that work against you.)<BR><BR>&gt;The DM on an attribute throw is the Stat itself...subtract this<BR>&gt;from your difficulty.&nbsp; That way, there WILL be a difference between<BR>&gt;the dude with the Str 15 and the dude with the Str 7...there will<BR>&gt;be A LOT of difference, because the difficulty is modified so.<BR><BR>&gt;So, with that explanation of how DMs are used in the game, let's go<BR>&gt;back to your original question and see how it plays out.&nbsp; I'll use<BR>&gt;your exact example, and I'll use the same die throws I made in<BR>&gt;answering you the first time.<BR><BR>&gt;Piter needs to jerk open a hatch that seems to be stuck.&nbsp; He<BR>&gt;doesn't have a skill in this area (I'd let the Athletics skill be<BR>&gt;used on this throw, but Piter doesn't have that skill), so we've<BR>&gt;got to go with a Default Skill.&nbsp; Piter gets to roll 1D.<BR><BR>&gt;The GM has decided that it is a Difficult task to pull that hatch<BR>&gt;open.&nbsp; The D throw will be made on 3D.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Piter throws a "5"<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; D throw is made..."6" on the E-Die....total is 18 (as it<BR>&gt;was in the previous example on the other post).&nbsp; But, we've got to<BR>&gt;use the modifier for attribute checks.&nbsp; Piter's Str is 8.&nbsp; This is<BR>&gt;subtracted from the roll.&nbsp; The total of the D throw is 10.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;Piter still couldn't get that damn hatch open, but he only rolled a<BR>&gt;regular Failure this time (as opposed to the first exmaple).&nbsp; To<BR>&gt;get a Greater Failure result, he would have had to roll a 1 or<BR>&gt;less.<BR><BR>And Rnold would have subtracted his 14 from the 18, giving him 4, and a success...barely, but you *did* say this was a "damn hard" task. <BR><BR>&gt;So, whaddaya think o' dat?<BR><BR>I think it works, is what I thinks. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 19:17:19 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR><BR>On 12/19/00 at 05:11 PM,&nbsp; Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;I love this friggin' list.<BR><BR>&gt;No, let me take two steps back, clear my throat, and yell--<BR><BR>&gt;I LOVE THIS FRIGGIN' LIST!!!<BR><BR>Yeah, when we aren't talking about France, gun control, or the<BR>"illuminated" meaning of the eleventh line of the second printing of<BR>Book 2 it can be a lot of fun. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;Great question, Eris.<BR><BR>Thank you.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; I'm good that way. &lt;g&gt; I hope you don't mind me doing this, I<BR>&gt;&gt; really *do* mean these as constructive questions.<BR><BR>&gt;Hell no!&nbsp; As a matter of fact, as I finished that post in answer to<BR>&gt;your question this morning, I knew there was something wrong...I<BR>&gt;had a wrinkle to iron out.<BR><BR>Great! I'll keep looking for wrinkles then.<BR><BR>&gt;I thought about it in the car as I made my meetings today (what? <BR>&gt;think about work?&nbsp; Shit no!&nbsp; I've got Traveller on my mind!)<BR><BR>Hey!&nbsp; That's what I did today, too.&nbsp; Thought about character<BR>generation all the way in and back...you probably wouldn't like what<BR>I decided, but that's another post.&nbsp; You know, I would wonder how<BR>much of a menace I am driving to and from work, but that would take<BR>my mind off of Traveller.&nbsp; &lt;bg&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;So...as I finished that earlier post in answer of your question, I<BR>&gt;started thinking.<BR><BR>&gt;My first inclination was to go with an MT-kind of idea....make the<BR>&gt;Stats have skill levels in someway...divide Stat by 3, drop<BR>&gt;fractions...whatever that number is, THAT'S you attribute "skill<BR>&gt;level"...and treat the roll just like a regular Task Skill from<BR>&gt;there on out.<BR><BR>Um, you don't wan'na do that....<BR><BR>&gt;But, there's a lot of problems with that kind of thinking.&nbsp; It's<BR>&gt;too much--too complex.&nbsp; KB3 is designed to get away from stuff like<BR>&gt;that.&nbsp; KB3 is simple rules/easy application/detailed outcomes.<BR><BR>Eris nods.<BR><BR>&gt;And, all these other questions come up...what if the character had<BR>&gt;a skill, like Athletics, but he does better dividing his Stat by 3? <BR>&gt;Blah..blah..blah..blah...<BR><BR>&gt;That wasn't the way to go.<BR><BR>&gt;Which way should you go?<BR><BR>&gt;Read the next post.&nbsp; I'll show you how attribute checks should be<BR>&gt;made in KB3...<BR><BR>Will do!<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3432<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, December 19 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3433<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>Re: The New Traveller Task System)<BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>Re: H&amp;E The End<BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>Re: YTU and MTU and the OTU, oh my<BR>Re: Traveller related (really!!)<BR>Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>Re: KB3 Question: whiny<BR>Re: Reft sector X-boat link<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:56:56 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; The astrogator told it.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; You have *got* to be kidding. That's not an answer. That's a circular<BR>&gt;&gt; argument. You are saying that it knows because it knows. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; No, it knows because the astrogator knows that she's going to a planet<BR>&gt; (or not), did the calculations based on that knowledge, and set up the<BR>&gt; jump drive machinery based on those calculations.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&gt; The problem is that being able to "steer" the way you propose requires<BR>&gt;&gt; that the drive somehow be "intelligent". That it, is has to be able to<BR>&gt;&gt; "act" upon information THAT THE ASTROGATOR DOESN'T HAVE.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Which information is that?&nbsp; As far as I can see, it only requires<BR>&gt; knowing the velocity vector of the target.<BR><BR>It still requires knowing *when* you will exit jump, since the vector<BR>of the target isn't constant (planet's move along orbits, not in<BR>straight lines). <BR><BR>Basicly, the idea of a *moving* exit point is very hard to swallow,<BR>because that's just plain *not* consistent with any sort of plausible<BR>physical process.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; I have *one* case, and it works with everything.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Same here.<BR><BR>Nope. Your previous message had a seperate case for each situation I<BR>pointed out.<BR><BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 12:29:00 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The New Traveller Task System)<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I don't mind them--it's just that there are better ways of doing tasks<BR>&gt; (IMO).&nbsp; When you use a 2D6 + mods systems, your system is based around<BR>&gt; chance<BR><BR>Umm, so is KB3.&nbsp; For typical situations, about 20 points worth of<BR>chance variation, where each skill level counts for about 3 points.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; In CT, if Joe Average fires his Carbine, and he's got Carbine-2...and he<BR>&gt; rolls, say, a 10, then his total for the throw, then his total throw is 12<BR>&gt; (he doesn't get a Dex bonus because of his 7 Stat).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; 10 points of the throw came from pure, random chance.<BR><BR>That's a bit misleading -- 7 points of that was the expected value.<BR>He got a 3-point bonus from chance.&nbsp; The "chance range" on 2d6 is<BR>about plus or minus 4 points.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; In T4, EVERY point of your Stat counts.&nbsp; EVERY point of your level counts.<BR>&gt; And, both of those numbers DETERMINE the character's success<BR><BR>Is there no random variation in T4?&nbsp; I don't think I've seen it.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Neither T4 or KB3 are systems where chance is the primary factor<BR>&gt; (like it is in CT/MT).<BR><BR>By my calculations, both have about the same skill/chance ratio.&nbsp; In<BR>CT, about 6:8.&nbsp; In KB3, about 18:20.&nbsp; The numbers are bigger and far<BR>more complex to obtain, but the final skill/chance ratio is very<BR>similar in both systems.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; See...2D6 + mods systems are really only one step above mechanics<BR>&gt; you see in Monopoly.<BR><BR>In that sense, so is yours.&nbsp; As with you, no offense intended.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:23:39 -0800<BR>From: "Bruce Macintosh" &lt;bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>&gt;The problem is that being able to "steer" the way you propose requires<BR>&gt;that the drive somehow be "intelligent". That it, is has to be able to<BR>&gt;"act" upon information THAT THE ASTROGATOR DOESN'T HAVE. And, that, in<BR>&gt;fact, the rules make quite clear he *cannot* have.<BR><BR>jump-emergence-point-moves-at-velocity-ship-had-when-it-jumped<BR>achieves all the steering objectives. Jump into empty space? Fine, you don't<BR>care what your entrance velocity was. Jumping to a planet? Match to the planets<BR>expected velocity, and your emergence point will move along with it if you<BR>arrive<BR>late. Jumping into a rendezvous point elsewhere in a solar system? Match<BR>velocities<BR>to be stationary with respect to the target star. Nice and easy.<BR><BR>Bruce<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 12:32:13 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: H&amp;E The End<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Doug wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;The Website, Mirrors and Mailing Lists will remain open until the new<BR>year<BR>&gt;&gt;when all H&amp;E content will be removed.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Stuart, some of us have been saving up for new computers just so we can<BR>run<BR>&gt;H&amp;E.<BR><BR>YES! Sentiments echoed! (and be able to run Ground Control, Halo - when<BR>it's finally released - and maybe Baldur's Gate, or that promised massive<BR>online Traveller game if it ever develops...)<BR><BR>&gt;Perhaps Sylea Downport or Freelance Traveller could take over the<BR>&gt;hosting?<BR><BR>I thought FT _was_ one of the mirrors??<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 12:41:27 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; It still requires knowing *when* you will exit jump, since the<BR>&gt; vector of the target isn't constant (planet's move along orbits, not<BR>&gt; in straight lines).<BR><BR>Planets move along geodesics, which are as close as you'll get to<BR>straight lines; we already know jumpspace is affected by gravity.<BR>Hence knowing when you will exit is irrelevant.<BR><BR>Even if you did have to exit near an object moving in a non-geodesic<BR>curved path, the instantaneous velocity vector at expected emergence<BR>time would be perfectly acceptable.&nbsp; You wouldn't get the multi<BR>million kilometre distances that an absolute stationary frame of<BR>reference gives you.<BR><BR>If you missed Earth by 10 hours in its orbit and the exit vector was<BR>not affected by gravity (inconsistent with any sort of plausible<BR>physical process though this is), then you'd only miss your relative<BR>emergence point by 4000 km, for about 25 seconds extra travel time at<BR>1G.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Basicly, the idea of a *moving* exit point is very hard to swallow,<BR><BR>Moving relative to what?<BR><BR><BR>&gt; because that's just plain *not* consistent with any sort of plausible<BR>&gt; physical process.<BR><BR>Neither is jumpspace, if you want to be picky.&nbsp; However, if you want<BR>to talk plausibility it isn't a good idea to start with absolutely<BR>stationary reference frames.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Nope. Your previous message had a seperate case for each situation I<BR>&gt; pointed out.<BR><BR>Wrong poster.&nbsp; Besides, they are all the same case -- the astrogator<BR>tells the jump drive what vector to exit along.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 02:48:43 +0100<BR>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen &lt;rancke@diku.dk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: YTU and MTU and the OTU, oh my<BR><BR>Eris Reddoch writes:<BR>&gt;...Like you I'd never dream of<BR>&gt;telling you what you can or cannot do in a TU, and please rest<BR>&gt;assured that I'm not going to tell you what you should or should<BR>&gt;not post here, either.&nbsp; Personally, as long as posts are polite<BR>&gt;and generally on topic, I wouldn't call for anyone to stop<BR>&gt;posting. Rob can, if he so chooses. Fair warning, unless Rob does<BR>&gt;so choose, I don't intend to stop posting my thoughts about<BR>&gt;Traveller to this list.<BR><BR>I get the impression that you think I was trying to tell you what you could or<BR>couldn't post. Not at all. I was merely informing you of my opinion.<BR><BR>&gt;Hans, IMO the basic axioms that make Traveller, Traveller, are<BR>&gt;(1) Interstellar communications is the same speed as travel and<BR>&gt;(2) Jump covers 1 to 6 parsecs and takes about 1 week regardless<BR>&gt;of distance.That's about it. <BR><BR>Well, IMO that is way, way too vague to make any sort of discussion worthwhile,<BR>since the differences between any two campaigns that had nothing more than that<BR>in common would be enough to make them far too different for any meaningful<BR>exchange. <BR><BR>&gt;You can play Traveller with or<BR>&gt;without magic thrusters, fusion, gravitics, or the Imperium.<BR><BR>Sure you can. But you can't discuss Traveller without defining a lot of other<BR>stuff, and the only common ground we have is the official Traveller universe.<BR>You can discuss how things are in your universe till you're blue in the face and<BR>while it may or may not be interesting, it certainly won't be very useful.<BR><BR>&gt;You can play Traveller in pre-generated starmaps with published<BR>&gt;backgrounds or among stars you create on the spot. You can still<BR>&gt;be playing Traveller if Stephron never existed, computers are big<BR>&gt;hulking boxes or the size of a walnut. You can still be playing<BR>&gt;Traveller if you don't crack open *any* published material<BR>&gt;authorized by GDW or Marc Miller.<BR><BR>I can't say I agree with you, but it really doesn't matter, because even if I<BR>agreed, I would still think that discussing a Traveller game would be futile<BR>until I knew what particular rules and background applied to the discussion.<BR><BR>&gt;No, I'm not going to argue about canon, holy writ, or axioms for a game with<BR>&gt;you either. If you don't know how I feel about people's blind religious<BR>&gt;devotion to such by now, you'll never know.<BR><BR>Oh, I know that you regard adherence to rules and background for the Official<BR>Traveller Universe as blind religious devotion. I think you are being every bit<BR>as blindly bigotted as you accuse those who adhere to such of being, but until<BR>now I've just tried to ignore that. But now that I really think about it, where<BR>do you get off calling me and a lot of other people here on the TML blind<BR>religious zealots? <BR><BR>&gt;But, unlike some people, I am tolerant.It doesn't bother me for that sort to<BR>&gt;tie up bandwidth arguing chapter and verse from conflicting "holy books."<BR><BR>If it doesn't bother you, why do you use derogatory terms to describe the<BR>practice? (Leaving aside for the moment that if you really think that is what<BR>we are doing, then you are suffering from huge misconceptions).<BR><BR>&gt;I don't accept that their interpretations of every jot and tittle of their<BR>&gt;published scripture are anything more than their interpretations, no better<BR>&gt;or worse than anyone else's, no more "official" or less official...except in<BR>&gt;their own games, but why waste time arguing over something like that?<BR><BR>Why waste time arguing about something that has no relevance to anyone except<BR>the person who posts the argument? At least those of us who discuss the OTU are<BR>arguing about something we are all concerned with.<BR><BR>&gt;For the sake of their blood pressure, and mine, I don't even argue over their<BR>&gt;usurpation of the acronym OTU, and what it implies.<BR><BR>Ursurpation? There's another word with negative connotations and used in a<BR>totally mystifying context.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Of course, if someone starts out a discussion by stating just how his TU<BR>&gt;&gt;differs from the OTU, I might enjoy discussing the ramifications. But<BR>&gt;&gt;otherwise, unless I specifically say otherwise, I'm always referring to the OTU<BR>&gt;&gt;(or the GTU).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Once again, I'll write, if anyone, including Hans, hasn't realized that I<BR>&gt;don't believe in a holy writ of Traveller canon by now, I doubt they will<BR>&gt;every realize it, but I'll never call for people to stop discussing their<BR>&gt;views of the Traveller universe on their list just because I don't agree<BR>&gt;with those views. <BR><BR>And that makes you different from the rest of us how? I didn't call for you to<BR>stop posting. I just informed you of my opinion of the usefulness of your posts.<BR>And in terms rather more polite than those you habitually use to characterize<BR>what we "zealots" write, I might add.<BR><BR>&gt;When I post about Traveller I am always posting about A TU, not some mythical<BR>&gt;O TU,<BR><BR>Mythical? There you go with the value judgements again.<BR><BR>&gt;...sometimes it is A TU similar to that in published sources, sometimes it is<BR>&gt;not. For the sake of the Caonists, I generally include an IMTU disclaimer when I post<BR>&gt;something that even remotely differs from their view of the TU. If you re-read<BR>&gt;what Hans' included of my post you'll see I did this time too. <BR><BR>Didn't change the usefulness of the post, though.<BR><BR>&gt;IAC, if anyone is offended or bored by what I write here, I offer<BR>&gt;them the delete key on their keyboard. I believe all of your<BR>&gt;keyboards come with one, and if you haven't quite figured out how<BR>&gt;to use it feel free to practice on my posts, and once you get the<BR>&gt;hang of that, you can start learning about filters and kill<BR>&gt;files. I plan to give you plenty of practice, because I'm not<BR>&gt;going to stop posting comments to the list.<BR><BR>And if I should feel the urge to comment adversely on any of them, feel free to<BR>take your own advice. But if you want to back up your claim to being so allfired<BR>tolerant, try to tone down the derogatory namecalling.<BR><BR><BR>Hans<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 20:52:45 -0500<BR>From: Bill Rutherford &lt;worj@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller related (really!!)<BR><BR>At 10:47 AM 12/19/2000 -0800, Tod wrote:<BR>&gt;&lt;snip&gt;How does the 3I handle disparity of rank in the military.&nbsp; What I <BR>&gt;mean is,<BR>&gt;how does one handle a situation, say, where a non-noble colonel has command<BR>&gt;of a captain who also happens to be Marquis of Valhalla (or whatever).&nbsp; Are<BR>&gt;there formal rules and regulations to deal with this, or just custom.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Specifically, how does one maintain unity of command in this situation?<BR><BR>Further, how'd the British Army handle it?&nbsp; It would seem similar, to me...<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Bill Rutherford<BR>worj@home.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 19:52:31 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR><BR>On 12/20/00 at 11:55 AM,&nbsp; Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Eris Reddoch wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Ken, so far KB3 looks interesting. The opposed rolls for<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; everything are a problem for me to deal with in my PBEM's,&nbsp; I end<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; up rolling both sides of the contest.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Well...what do you do when the player needs to roll something in<BR>&gt;&gt; your PBEM?&nbsp; Don't you roll for your players anyway?<BR><BR>&gt;One problem would be that player judgement in what to roll is more<BR>&gt;important with KB3, due to higher skills giving worse results in<BR>&gt;many cases.<BR><BR>That's what I was going to post.&nbsp; Good thing I read the whole thread<BR>first.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Yes, there are dice servers that would do the rolls and email the<BR>results to the player and GM.&nbsp; Carlos Alos-Ferrer is using a dice<BR>server in his PBEM.&nbsp; It would slow things down only a hair to have<BR>the player choose the number of dice to roll and send the roll<BR>request to the server for the Task, followed by Carlos sending a<BR>roll request for the Difficulty.&nbsp; The "E" die wouldn't be a big<BR>problem.&nbsp; There are IRC robots that do the same.<BR><BR>In my PBEM's I do all the rolling.&nbsp; I'd have to roll twice, but<BR>that's not really a big deal.&nbsp; The player could tell me to "pull the<BR>punch" or "go all out" on important rolls, I suppose.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Dice throws are more of a contest now.&nbsp; Players "feel" more of<BR>&gt;&gt; it...instead of rolling against some arbritray target number.<BR><BR>&gt;I don't see how choosing a difficulty and rolling 2D is<BR>&gt;conceptually different from choosing a difficulty and rolling some<BR>&gt;number of dice between 2 and 11.&nbsp; Both have arbitrary choice of<BR>&gt;difficulty, only the shape of the distribution changes.<BR><BR>I think the real conceptional difference is the contested rolls.&nbsp; Of<BR>course, Ken and his bunch are d6 players, so they predisposed to<BR>like big honking handfuls of dice.&nbsp; &lt;g&gt; But, there *is* an elegance<BR>to having the number of dice you can roll increase as your skill<BR>increase.<BR><BR>Tim, if I may I call you Tim, I bet you like rolling low on 3d6<BR>against a target number don't you?&nbsp; Not that there is anything wrong<BR>with that!&nbsp; &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:55:42 -0800<BR>From: Gordon Horne &lt;gordon.horne@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Me:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; The time spent in jump is unknown.<BR>&gt;T.L.:<BR>&gt;That's irrelevant, as I mentioned previously.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Me:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; The astrogator knows the target is at point P1 at time T1 and has<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; velocity V.<BR>&gt;T.L.:<BR>&gt;Velocity V relative to the motion of the jumpspace exit, which by<BR>&gt;appropriate calculation and consequent setting of the jump drive could<BR>&gt;be made very close to zero.&nbsp; Hence dT is irrelevant.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;B.M.:<BR>&gt;jump-emergence-point-moves-at-velocity-ship-had-when-it-jumped<BR>&gt;achieves all the steering objectives. Jump into empty space? Fine, you don't<BR>&gt;care what your entrance velocity was. Jumping to a planet? Match to <BR>&gt;the planets<BR>&gt;expected velocity, and your emergence point will move along with it if you<BR>&gt;arrive<BR>&gt;late. Jumping into a rendezvous point elsewhere in a solar system? Match<BR>&gt;velocities<BR>&gt;to be stationary with respect to the target star. Nice and easy.<BR><BR>Assuming that these two statements say the same thing, it seems that <BR>a ship must match the velocity of it's target /before/ jumping. <BR>Otherwise, any differential between the ship's and the target's <BR>velocities will be multiplied by the difference of the time actually <BR>spent in jump space and the time predicted to be in jump space. It's <BR>probably safer to maneuver before jump when you know where everything <BR>is than after jump where the position of objects with unmatched <BR>velocities is essentially random.<BR><BR>This also means that jump emergence is stationary relative to the <BR>main target in the vast majority of cases. Planning a jump to have a <BR>non-zero velocity relative to the target is not effective as any <BR>velocity differential is multiplied by an unknown time factor. No <BR>dropping out of jump on a pre-planned strafing vector 8^(<BR><BR>In all, this works quite well. It doesn't quite match canon <BR>descriptions of jump operations. Time to be shocked and appalled <BR>again 8^)<BR><BR>TTFN<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; g<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 19:55:50 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: KB3 Question: whiny<BR><BR>trentfs@ix.netcom.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Same complaint, different situation:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; In a face-to-face game, an NPC does something like, say, shooting at a PC.&nbsp; The GM then has to roll 2 sets of dice and compare them, right?<BR><BR>Well, you could do it that way, I guess...<BR><BR>I don't do it that way.&nbsp; I like to keep the players involved.&nbsp; If this happened in my game (an NPC turns to shoot at a PC), I'd roll the Task Throw for the NPC, then I'd have the player roll his Difficulty Throw.<BR><BR>"Uh-oh...the guy's pulling up his weapon.&nbsp; Pow!"&nbsp; I roll dice.&nbsp; "Roll your D throw!"<BR><BR><BR>Note...<BR><BR>There's really not a whole lot of difference between rolling against a target number and rolling two opposed throws.&nbsp; If you think about it, a target number is really just a "pre-averaged" opposed throw total.<BR><BR>But...I do see a point, as I will illustrate in the second example below...see what I write after that...you may like my solution...but I think the second example is a nice situation to demonstrate why you *would* want to use some target numbers at least *some* of the time in KB3.<BR><BR><BR>xxx&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; xxx&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; xxx&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; xxx&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; xxx<BR><BR><BR>As a side note:&nbsp; I also try to keep my players "involved" as much as I can without giving them info they shouldn't get.&nbsp; If there is a situation, for example, where&nbsp; a couple of NPCs are getting into a bar fight, and the PCs just decide to sit there and watch, not involving themselves in the fight, I'll let the players run the NPCs for a couple of rounds, playing out the fight.<BR><BR>I find this works exceptionally well keeping players interested and involved in the game.&nbsp; They find it "fun" too, being involved in aspects of the game that players don't normally tread upon.<BR><BR>I remember this one game we had where a player took his PC off on his own (he was walking, by himself, in between the ship berth and the starport bar where the other PCs were).<BR><BR>The PC at the bar had been overhead talking by the bad guys, and they radioed to their compadres outside to go get the guy who was coming from the ship.<BR><BR>Well, when this one PC came bee-boppin' down the street by himself, I had the bad guys roll to see (in secret) if they recognized the PC from the description radioed to them from their buddies at the bar.&nbsp; They did, and all of a sudden, I had this totally impromptu encounter going on.&nbsp; I had to ad-lib it, because I had nothing pre-mapped or prepared for this encounter (it just sprung up because of the PC role play in the bar).<BR><BR>Now, the player PC walking was alone, and I was going to have the bad guys try to take him captive.&nbsp; We rolled to see how far or close this PC was to the rest of the party at the bar (important to the PC), and then we rolled to see if there were any other people about.<BR><BR>There were.&nbsp; But, there was only one close enough to affect the outcome of the fight (see how I usually let the PCs dice to decide what happens to their character's fate?&nbsp; My players really, really LIKE this...because they roll it, they like it much better than if I just arbritraily come up with something...because they are part of the encounter in such a way that they feel they have a hand in the PC's fate.).<BR><BR>Three quick 2D6 throws gave us Str/End/Dex for this neutral pedestrian NPC, and we rolled a quick reaction roll when the PC in trouble yelled at the guy and said, "Hey!&nbsp; They're coming to kill me!&nbsp; Help me!"<BR><BR>I skewed the reaction roll to make the new NPC run from the encounter (a typical reaction, I would think), but the player of the NPC rolled very, very well...and I allowed this to be a "brave" regular, everyday person on the side of the street.<BR><BR>Boom.&nbsp; Now the player is running two characters...the new NPC and his own PC.<BR><BR>I gotta tell you--We Had A Blast With This Encounter!<BR><BR>It was what role playing is all about.&nbsp; It was totally on the fly, generated as a direct result from the actions of the PCs in the bar...and you can BETTER BELIEVE that the guy running the single walking PC was scared to death that his character was either going to get killed or captured.<BR><BR>The new NPC swung the odds (he also rolled very, very well during the fight), and the encounter turned in the PCs favor.&nbsp; The bad guys ran off.<BR><BR>And, the new NPC became "friends" with the PC character.&nbsp; I even bring him back from time to time for "guest staring" rolls (having fully fleshed the character out now with all skills and such), and when the PCs are on that planet, they stop by to see their old friend.<BR><BR>I even use that dude to get the PCs involved in the adventures I want them to go after.<BR><BR>And, I couldn't have executed that better if I had planned it!<BR><BR><BR>xxx&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; xxx&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; xxx&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; xxx&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; xxx<BR><BR><BR>WHEN TO USE STATIC TARGET NUMBERS IN KB3<BR><BR>OK, back to the original point of this post...<BR><BR>See that roll I made up there in that encounter I just described to you?&nbsp; The one where I rolled to see if the bad guys recognized the PC as he walked from the berth to the bar?<BR><BR>Well, you could play that out in KB3 with a Task Throw and a Difficulty Throw (and I think this was Trent's point above), but it is not conducive to fun and quick game play to have to make two throws, as a GM, in situations like these.<BR><BR>So...<BR><BR>What'd you'd want to do in a case like this is ROLL AGAINST A KB3 STATIC TARGET NUMBER.<BR><BR>Like I said above, target numbers are basically just pre-rolled, pre-averaged Difficulty Throws.&nbsp; So, if you need a target number for things in KB3, take an average of the difficulties.<BR><BR>Easy....3<BR>Average.....7<BR>Difficult.....11<BR>Formidable.....15<BR>Staggering.....19<BR>Impossible....24<BR><BR>Hey!&nbsp; Those look like MT target numbers!<BR><BR>Yes, they are.&nbsp; That's where I came up with the difficulties for KB3 in the first place.&nbsp; (The E-Die should average itself out over a lot of throws, so it is not figured in these averages).<BR><BR>When I need to make a quick, secret throw, by myself, I use these target numbers.&nbsp; Anytime I can involve the players, I always make the T roll and D roll.<BR><BR>So...<BR><BR>If you need static target numbers for situations like these using KB3, do something like this.&nbsp; OR, get a little more sophisticated and PRE-ROLL some Easy difficulty totals...some Average difficulty totals...some Difficult difficulty totals...etc&nbsp; using the E-Die (you could probably make a spread sheet roll hundreds of these up for you in a snap).<BR><BR>In a KB3 based game, when you need a static target number (which you are going to be doing in secret anyway), simply print off such a sheet and keep it in your GM book.<BR><BR>When you need an Average throw, to the the "Average" column of pre-rolled throws and use that number.&nbsp; Mark it off.&nbsp; The next time you're on that column, use the next one down.<BR><BR>Easy as pie.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; having to roll every time a PC does something is already kind of a turn-off<BR><BR>Are you talking about KB3?&nbsp; Or are you talking about ANY Traveller system?<BR><BR>I only make KB3 rolls when I would make a throw in any other game.&nbsp; If you don't roll, how else would you govern a PC doing something?<BR><BR><BR>&gt; but the mere thought of occasionally (frequently?) having to roll two sets of dice and compare them (with the players all staring over my shoulders to make sure I'm not cheating) is just too much!<BR><BR>You shouldn't be rolling in KB3 any more than you do using any other Traveller rules set.<BR><BR>And, for you secret GM throws, use the Static Target numbers as I mentioned above (I wouldn't roll two sets of throws in secret either.)<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; you need 2 distinct sets of dice (+ an e-die for each set = 4 different colors/sizes of dice -- the mind boggles!*).<BR><BR>I agree.&nbsp; I wouldn't do this.&nbsp; I'd just use the static numbers in situations where you are rolling by yourself...use the opposed throws in all other situations.<BR><BR>I've actually already thought about this when I was designing KB3 (because I am a GM).&nbsp; This is just not something that has come up in KB3 discussion yet.&nbsp; Thanks!&nbsp; I'm glad you did bring that up so that I could elaborate on how to handle those situations.<BR><BR>*Use a standard set of static target numbers (the MT ones are perfect).<BR><BR>*Or, get more sophisticated and use a sheet of pre-rolled Difficulty Throws (and hopefully, you'll let your computer do this--but I guess you could roll up 10 or so numbers by hand for each difficulty category before the game starts if you really wanted to...)<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; *Of course back in my younger days I had a big Crown Royal bag full of dice in all shapes, sizes, and colors, just like everyone else, but nowadays it's all about economy (and carrying around as few dice as possible -- why would anyone EVER need more than, say, 2 D8's or D12's?).<BR><BR>Well...if you're me...I've still got that Crown Royal bag...and I supply all my players with dice!&nbsp; :)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:40:11 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Reft sector X-boat link<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Marc posted rules for determining how far you were from the point<BR>&gt;&gt; you were aiming at (but has never said whether it's a fixed point or<BR>&gt;&gt; moves with the target).<BR><BR>See below.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; For velocity, my take is that it's conserved.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Conserved in which sense?&nbsp; Conserved w.r.t. an absolute frame of<BR>&gt; reference, or conserved in the 'parallel transport' sense of<BR>&gt; relativity?<BR><BR>Any observer in an inertial frame will see the ship as having the same<BR>vector when it leaves jumps that it had when entering jump. I guess<BR>that's the relativistic sense?<BR><BR>I thought my example had made it clear.<BR><BR>Keep in mind that while each observer will see the velocity conserved,<BR>different observers will see a different vector...<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; This means that for any pair of worlds, there will be preferred jump<BR>&gt;&gt; entry and exit points, so as to save some fuel by jumping with the<BR>&gt;&gt; "ideal" vector.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Yes.&nbsp; The tables seem to assume accelerating and decelerating to the<BR>&gt; jump point, making the jump then accelerating and decelerating to the<BR>&gt; target planet.<BR><BR>&gt; If velocity is conserved, that's inefficient.&nbsp; You accelerate to the<BR>&gt; jump point, jump with a conserved velocity of a few hundred km/s, then<BR>&gt; decelerate on approach to the planet.<BR><BR>Keep in mind that there is going to be "Space Traffic Control" (STC)<BR>and they'll be telling you exactly what course to follow. Given that a<BR>100 ton ship at 100+ km/sec will hit like a fair sized nuke, they'll<BR>have you taking a somewhat less than direct course. :-)<BR><BR>(I had a much longer description, but accidently killed the message &lt;sigh&gt;)<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; I imagine that some companies will go to the trouble of doing "military<BR>&gt;&gt; style" extended jump calcs just to get the reduction in uncertainty of<BR>&gt;&gt; arrival time (minutes to hiurs, rather than hours to days).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I didn't know there was such a thing.&nbsp; Any references I might have<BR>&gt; missed?<BR><BR>From various messages I've saved:<BR><BR>- ---------------<BR>The MegaTraveller Journal, #2 has an "official" note in the Q&amp;A section<BR>about jump duration.&nbsp; The question posed there was essentially "if jump<BR>times are so random, how can a fleet commander get all of his ships into a<BR>system at once?"<BR><BR>Joe D. Fugate answered it, and suggested that if you double the jump<BR>preparation time, you change the jump duration from:<BR><BR>124 hrs + (2D x 6 hrs)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (Starship Operator's Manual, vol 1)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; to<BR><BR>167 hrs + (2D x 0.1 hr)<BR>- ---------------<BR>"Jump takes 168 hours (+/- 10%) to complete. this time is related to the<BR>nature of the alternate space being travelled in, and to the energy<BR>applied. Where time is a variable in travel in normal space, energy<BR>consumption is a variable in alternate space; time is a constant.<BR>Consequently, distance depends on the energy applied."<BR><BR>_Jumpspace_ by Marc W. Miller, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society,<BR>No. 24, Page 34<BR>- ---------------<BR>From: CardSharks &lt;CardSharks@aol.com&gt;<BR>Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 18:54:35 EST<BR>To: traveller@mpgn.com<BR>Subject: Re: Speaking of newbie questions, I have one.<BR><BR>In a message dated 98-04-02 17:54:30 EST, you write:<BR><BR>&lt;&lt;<BR>When a ship exits from jumpspace, where in the system is it?&nbsp; How much<BR>control does the navigational crew have over exact insystem destination<BR>when they jump?<BR>&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<BR><BR>Usually, it is 100 diameters out from the destination world, on a line which<BR>reaches back to the origin point.<BR><BR>Or, the ship can come out at a plotted point, at the point with a variation of<BR>+D-D times 50,000 km, along the line between origin and destination.<BR><BR>Marc<BR>- ---------------<BR>From: CardSharks &lt;CardSharks@aol.com&gt;<BR>Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 14:10:53 EDT<BR>To: traveller@mpgn.com<BR>Subject: Re: Coordinated Jumps (was Escort Tonnage)<BR><BR>From T4.1<BR><BR>BREAKOUT<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; A ship may exit jump space in two ways: at or near the point planned<BR>for, or at a point where the straight line course crosses a 100 diameter<BR>sphere.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; The Planned Breakout Point. The course plotted by the Astrogator may<BR>include a predicted point for breakout. A successful jump will carry a ship to<BR>that predicted breakout point within about 100,000 km. Breakout points are<BR>commonly used in naval operations when maneuvers take ships to locations<BR>relatively removed from astral bodies.<BR><BR>PLANNED BREAKOUT POINT<BR>+D-D&nbsp; &nbsp; Bands&nbsp; &nbsp; Km&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; T&amp;T<BR>- -5&nbsp; &nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp; -125,000&nbsp; &nbsp; -25,000<BR>- -4&nbsp; &nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp; -100,000&nbsp; &nbsp; -20,000<BR>- -3&nbsp; &nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp; -75,000&nbsp; &nbsp; -15,000<BR>- -2&nbsp; &nbsp; 1&nbsp; &nbsp; -50,000&nbsp; &nbsp; -10,000<BR>- -1&nbsp; &nbsp; 1&nbsp; &nbsp; -25,000&nbsp; &nbsp; -5,000<BR>0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 0<BR>+1&nbsp; &nbsp; 1&nbsp; &nbsp; +25,000&nbsp; &nbsp; +5,000<BR>+2&nbsp; &nbsp; 1&nbsp; &nbsp; +50,000&nbsp; &nbsp; +10,000<BR>+3&nbsp; &nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp; +75,000&nbsp; &nbsp; +15,000<BR>+4&nbsp; &nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp; +100,000&nbsp; &nbsp; +20,000<BR>+5&nbsp; &nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp; +125,000&nbsp; &nbsp; +25,000<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Bands are 50,000 km space combat range bands. Km reflects actual<BR>distance along the plotted course. T&amp;T reflects variation for trained crews in<BR>ships with finely tuned drives.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Crossing The 100 Diameter Sphere. An astrogator may plot a course<BR>which crosses the 100 diameter sphere. A ship in jump space automatically<BR>breaks out at the point where that course crosses the 100-diameter sphere<BR>(with no variation). This technique places the ship in the best possible<BR>position to continue its voyage to a world.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Natural Safeguards. The physics of jump space force a ship out of jump<BR>space when it crosses the 100-Diameter Sphere. As a result, a ship cannot exit<BR>jump space within a world, planetoid, star, or even another ship.<BR><BR>TIME TO BREAKOUT<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; A typical jump takes about a week (168 hours). The actual time spent<BR>is random. Military ships can take slightly less time on average.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Squadron Maneuvers. Highly tuned drives in a squadron of ships, along<BR>with highly trained crews, can make their emergence from jump very close to<BR>the same time (within about a 5 hour window).<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; TIME IN JUMP<BR>+D-D&nbsp; &nbsp; Comm&nbsp; &nbsp; Mil&nbsp; &nbsp; T&amp;T&nbsp; &nbsp; Perfect<BR>- -5&nbsp; &nbsp; 158&nbsp; &nbsp; 162&nbsp; &nbsp; 163.5&nbsp; &nbsp; 165.0<BR>- -4&nbsp; &nbsp; 160&nbsp; &nbsp; 163&nbsp; &nbsp; 164.0&nbsp; &nbsp; 165.2<BR>- -3&nbsp; &nbsp; 162&nbsp; &nbsp; 164&nbsp; &nbsp; 164.5&nbsp; &nbsp; 165.4<BR>- -2&nbsp; &nbsp; 164&nbsp; &nbsp; 165&nbsp; &nbsp; 165.0&nbsp; &nbsp; 165.6<BR>- -1&nbsp; &nbsp; 166&nbsp; &nbsp; 166&nbsp; &nbsp; 165.5&nbsp; &nbsp; 165.8<BR>0&nbsp; &nbsp; 168&nbsp; &nbsp; 167&nbsp; &nbsp; 166.0&nbsp; &nbsp; 166.0<BR>+1&nbsp; &nbsp; 170&nbsp; &nbsp; 168&nbsp; &nbsp; 166.5&nbsp; &nbsp; 166.2<BR>+2&nbsp; &nbsp; 172&nbsp; &nbsp; 169&nbsp; &nbsp; 167.0&nbsp; &nbsp; 166.4<BR>+3&nbsp; &nbsp; 174&nbsp; &nbsp; 170&nbsp; &nbsp; 167.5&nbsp; &nbsp; 166.6<BR>+4&nbsp; &nbsp; 176&nbsp; &nbsp; 171&nbsp; &nbsp; 168.0&nbsp; &nbsp; 166.8<BR>+5&nbsp; &nbsp; 178&nbsp; &nbsp; 172&nbsp; &nbsp; 168.5&nbsp; &nbsp; 167.0<BR>Time to breakout is shown in hours.<BR>Comm: Commercial and private ships using standard drives.<BR>Mil. Military ships in service.<BR>T&amp;T. Trained and tuned. Military ships with highly trained crews and<BR>carefully tuned drives.<BR>Perfect. If the rolls produce a perfect jump +/- 0, reroll on the Perfect<BR>column.<BR><BR>DETECTION<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Ships entering and leaving jump space can be detected.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Entering Jump: A ship entering jump disappears from detector screens.<BR>There is a pulse of energy which is detectable to PRadar (Passive Radar)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Leaving Jump. A ship leaving jump emits a pulse of energy which is<BR>detectable to PRadar.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; In Jump: A ship in jump cannot be detected. A ship in jump is<BR>incapable of detecting anything also in jump, or outside of jump.<BR><BR>FOR SIMPLICITY<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; In most cases, a jump can be described as a successful movement from<BR>one star system to another. It takes about a week. Travel from the StartWorld<BR>to the Jump Point takes about a day; travel from the Jump Point to the<BR>DestinationWorld also takes about a day.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Only if circumstances require should the details of jump be<BR>implemented.<BR>- ---------------<BR><BR>As you can see, things aren't all that well settled. :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3433<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, December 19 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3434<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Seas of LOX<BR>Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR>Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR>Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR>Re: The New Traveller Task System)<BR>Re: The New Traveller Task System)<BR>Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR>Re: The New Traveller Task System)<BR>Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR>RE: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR>Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR>Re: Filkin' Tom Waits<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Traveller related (really!!)<BR>Re: Reft sector X-boat link<BR>re: Noble vs Military rank<BR>Re: Finnish and American RPGs<BR>Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR>Re: Those Damn French :)<BR>RE: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:48:46 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Seas of LOX<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; One way to get that sort of thing would be for a (very unlikely) close<BR>&gt;&gt; stellar encounter to have ejected a planet with an oxygen/nitrogen<BR>&gt;&gt; atmosphere from a system. (c.f. Fritz Lieber;s short story "A Pail of<BR>&gt;&gt; Air"). <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I was thinking about that story not long ago.&nbsp; Yes, it would probably<BR>&gt; work, even if not on geological timescales.<BR><BR>Have the players find a planet like that and discover that there are<BR>still people alive on it...<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Or maybe an elliptical orbit would be better. That way, primitive life<BR>&gt;&gt; forms could survive, and keep replenishing the oxygen supply. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; That's very elliptical, cometary in fact.&nbsp; It would be a very<BR>&gt; intersting place when approaching the sun!<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>&gt;&gt; I think I'm going to have to break down and check out the CD version of<BR>&gt;&gt; the CRC handbook.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I didn't know there was one.&nbsp; Hmm.&nbsp; I'm using an old second-hand copy<BR>&gt; from 1980 or so (picked it up for $2 at a garage sale).<BR><BR>I bought a new one last year because they *finally* updated the data on<BR>the solar system!<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Somewhere I have a list I dug out for a planet at the *other* extreme.<BR>&gt;&gt; I had it orbiting at about .1 AU from a G class star, but farther out<BR>&gt;&gt; from a brighter star would work too. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; OK, a radiative black-body equilibrium of about 1000 K -- a bit hotter<BR>&gt; than Venus, and that's not exactly everyone's favourite picnic spot.<BR><BR>I may have to move it closer, as I'm pretty sure I was working with a<BR>temp more around 2000-2500 K<BR>&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&gt; Then you take the remaining stuff and try to figure out how much of each<BR>&gt;&gt; element would have wound up in which compounds. <BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; All this was being done by hand. I ought to try re-doing it now that I<BR>&gt;&gt; have a computer. :-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I don't think it would be much easier.&nbsp; Harder in fact, since you have<BR>&gt; to deal with the vagaries of programming as well as the vagaries of<BR>&gt; chemistry.&nbsp; But you only need to do it once if you make it<BR>&gt; sufficiently general.<BR><BR>The basic idea being that you need to "home in" on a solution, much as<BR>some spreadsheet functions allow.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; I suspect that the world would be worth mining, if you could manage to<BR>&gt;&gt; land on it.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Yeah, at that temperature only heavy elements would be left.&nbsp; Too hot<BR>&gt; to hold an atmosphere if it started vaguely Earthlike or smaller, so<BR>&gt; anything with a significant vapour pressure is gone.&nbsp; Hmm ... a few<BR>&gt; metals would be liquid at those temperatures, and might even have<BR>&gt; evaporated over geological time.<BR><BR>At the temps I was assuming a *lot* of things would have evaporated. <BR><BR>I think there'd still be carbon, but it'd all be in the form of<BR>carbides (tungsten, hafnium, etc :-) Ditto for oxygen, nitrogen, and a<BR>couple other light elements. <BR><BR>Hmmm. Maybe Grandfather did it to one of his children's bases? &lt;eg&gt;<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 20:22:03 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR><BR>Timothy Little wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Well...what do you do when the player needs to roll something in<BR>&gt; &gt; your PBEM?&nbsp; Don't you roll for your players anyway?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; One problem would be that player judgement in what to roll is more<BR>&gt; important with KB3, due to higher skills giving worse results in many<BR>&gt; cases.<BR><BR>Good point.&nbsp; I hadn't thought of that.&nbsp; (Have I said lately that I LOVE THIS LIST!)<BR><BR>But, I think you'll find in most cases, using KB3, you're players will use ALL of<BR>their dice.<BR><BR>Why?&nbsp; You need them to be successful at a throw.&nbsp; Most times you can't blow by a<BR>throw because you've got a few levels--there's too much that can happen.&nbsp; First<BR>off, there is a wide range of totals from the difficulty throws, so players will<BR>want to (generally) use all of their dice to ensure they'll be successful.&nbsp; Second,<BR>there's the E-Die, which will do SOMETHING to a throw 1 out of every 3 tries.<BR><BR>The difficulties in KB3 are too unpredictable.&nbsp; I think you'll see your players<BR>using all their dice most of the time.<BR><BR>The exception will be when you have a very high level PC throwing on a low<BR>difficulty--like if a guy with a Skill-5 throws an Easy throw.<BR><BR>It will be the exception, happening only occasionally, not the rule.<BR><BR><BR><BR>In a FTF game, I don't think you'll experience any problems at all.&nbsp; The player<BR>will only throw what he wants when this situation pops up.&nbsp; You, as a GM, don't<BR>have to worry about it--just throw difficulty.<BR><BR>In a PBEM game, you could work out some standing proceedure for this: "Whenever my<BR>skill level is higher than the difficulty level by 2, I want to throw 1 less die",<BR>or you could simply e-mail the guy and see what he wants to do.<BR><BR>If you're using those PBEM dice roller thingys, you don't have to worry about it as<BR>a GM either.&nbsp; You recieve an e-mail from the player, showing his computer generated<BR>dice roll--it shows you how many dice were thrown, what type, what modifiers were<BR>used, and the total (so your players can't cheat using these thing).<BR><BR>I really don't see the KB3 system being any harder than any other Traveller rules<BR>system used for PBEM&nbsp; (unless, of coarse, you, as a GM are rolling twice for<BR>everything....then you may want to use the KB3 static target numbers or prerolled<BR>KB3 difficulties that I mentioned in another post)<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Dice throws are more of a contest now.&nbsp; Players "feel" more of<BR>&gt; &gt; it...instead of rolling against some arbritray target number.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I don't see how choosing a difficulty and rolling 2D is conceptually<BR>&gt; different from choosing a difficulty and rolling some number of dice<BR>&gt; between 2 and 11.&nbsp; Both have arbitrary choice of difficulty, only the<BR>&gt; shape of the distribution changes.<BR><BR>It doesn't have to do with the distribution or any other type of math.&nbsp; What I'm<BR>referring to is what I've witnessed happen in my game.&nbsp; There was "fun" in one guy<BR>battling another--instead of "here..roll higher than this".&nbsp; It was die versus die,<BR>man versus man...I can't put my finger on a good description, but you could see a<BR>marked difference in enjoyment when we started using opposed rolls for as many<BR>things as possible.<BR><BR>It's kind of like the idea that rolling higher "just feels good".&nbsp; Rolling sixes<BR>"feels" a lot better than rolling ones.&nbsp; Whatever it is that makes rolling higher<BR>feel more fun than rolling lower, THAT'S the same quality I'm talking about.<BR><BR>My players, at least, just really, really enjoyed rolling opposed rolls when<BR>possible.<BR><BR>You wouldn't have thought it either.&nbsp; I recently ran a short D&amp;D3 game--just a<BR>short module to break in the new D&amp;D rules.&nbsp; There is an optional rule in the DM's<BR>Guide that suggest you roll your AC instead of it being a static number.<BR><BR>(In D&amp;D3, your AC is 10+modifiers.&nbsp; On your d20 attack roll, you have to roll<BR>higher than your target's AC.&nbsp; Well, the optional rule in the DMs Guide says that<BR>you can have an attacker make his d20 attack roll, and instead of going up against<BR>an AC, have the defender roll d20 + armor mods--just like KB3!...just like the old<BR>D6 Star Wars!)<BR><BR>Well, I had an old time D&amp;D player going in with us on the D&amp;D game, and he was<BR>griping that I was going to run the game this way.&nbsp; He wanted his old static AC<BR>back.<BR><BR>But, as we started playing, I noticed a change in him.&nbsp; He was enjoying the fights<BR>more!<BR><BR>And, he said to me after a couple of games, "You know, I really didn't want to play<BR>with that 'roll your AC' rule, but it sure is fun.&nbsp; I like it."<BR><BR>There is just something about opposed rolls that adds something to the game.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 20:29:39 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR><BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; And Rnold would have subtracted his 14 from the 18, giving him 4, and a success...barely, but you *did* say this was a "damn hard" task.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Well...remember that I rolled a "6" on the E-Die on that throw.&nbsp; I got a "6"...a "3"...and a "3" on that Difficult throw.&nbsp; The uncertainty<BR>of the E-Die blew you out of the water.<BR><BR>Had I not rolled a "6" on the E-Die (let's move it down to a "5"), you're looking at a total of 11.&nbsp; Subtracting the DM (-14), old Rnold<BR>would have aced that roll with an AUTOMATIC SUCCESS.&nbsp; On top of that, his Auto Success would also be a Greater Success roll.<BR><BR>Had I not rolled the "6", old 14 STR Rnold would have opened that stuck door like a paper envelope.&nbsp; (See...a 14 STR DOES count for<BR>something)<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 20:36:09 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR><BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Great! I'll keep looking for wrinkles then.<BR><BR>Please do!&nbsp; I'd like to make KB3 one awesome system!<BR><BR>I can...(scratch that)...WE can only do that if the thing is "de-bugged".<BR><BR>I said at the start that this was a beta-version.&nbsp; I knew it would have to be play tested and picked<BR>apart to ensure it was a good Traveller system.<BR><BR>So far, discussion on this list has helped me define..<BR><BR>...KB3's method of measuring throws<BR><BR>....the issue of using static target numbers (sometimes) under KB3<BR><BR>...and the proceedure for making KB3 attribute checks!<BR><BR><BR>I said at first that I posted KB3 "against my better judgement".&nbsp; I'm changing that opinion now.&nbsp; I'm<BR>glad I posted it.&nbsp; This has been an awesome, constructive process that has only resulted in the<BR>improvement of the system.<BR><BR>I love this friggin' list.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 20:53:51 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The New Traveller Task System)<BR><BR>Timothy Little wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Umm, so is KB3.&nbsp; For typical situations, about 20 points worth of<BR>&gt; chance variation, where each skill level counts for about 3 points.<BR><BR>Any task system incorporates chance.&nbsp; By definition, that's what its supposed to<BR>do--define an uncertain outcome!<BR><BR>My point is...CT and MT use a system of determing the outcome of chance based more<BR>on arbritary dice rolls--the 2D6 roll.&nbsp; A character's abilities and stats MODIFY<BR>this arbritary throw.<BR><BR>KB3 and T4 base their chance around the character's actual abilities and skills.<BR>Under these systems, a character's abilities and stats DETERMINE what the throw<BR>is--not simply modify it.<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt; See...2D6 + mods systems are really only one step above mechanics you see in Monopoly.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; In that sense, so is yours.<BR><BR>Not really.&nbsp; You can make a dice roll, like you do in the game Risk, and determine<BR>a winner of a fight.&nbsp; That dice roll really has nothing to do with the soldiers<BR>themselves--their abilities, their skill with their weapons.&nbsp; One soldier is like<BR>another soldier is line another soldier...<BR><BR>CT and MT go beyond this (and like I said before, I LIKE the CT and MT<BR>systems...I'm just illustrating a point) by adding modifiers to that dice roll,<BR>skewing the results of the throw because of the individual.&nbsp; You start to see<BR>modified results based on a character's skills and stats.<BR><BR>T4 and KB3 go even farther.&nbsp; In those two systems, what you roll is determined by<BR>(not modified by) the character's individual skills and attributes.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; As with you, no offense intended.<BR><BR>Hey, we're all friends here.&nbsp; I'm not offended!&nbsp; I enjoy this kind of thing!<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 20:24:49 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: The New Traveller Task System)<BR><BR>On 12/20/00 at 12:29 PM,&nbsp; Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; I don't mind them--it's just that there are better ways of doing<BR>&gt;&gt; tasks (IMO).&nbsp; When you use a 2D6 + mods systems, your system is<BR>&gt;&gt; based around chance<BR><BR>&gt;Umm, so is KB3.&nbsp; For typical situations, about 20 points worth of<BR>&gt;chance variation, where each skill level counts for about 3 points.<BR><BR>I know where you're coming from, but because you're dealing with<BR>intersection normal distributions I think the effective random<BR>variance is somewhat smaller. However...&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR><BR>&gt;&gt; In CT, if Joe Average fires his Carbine, and he's got<BR>&gt;&gt; Carbine-2...and he rolls, say, a 10, then his total for the<BR>&gt;&gt; throw, then his total throw is 12 (he doesn't get a Dex bonus<BR>&gt;&gt; because of his 7 Stat).<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; 10 points of the throw came from pure, random chance.<BR><BR>&gt;That's a bit misleading -- 7 points of that was the expected value.<BR>&gt;He got a 3-point bonus from chance.&nbsp; The "chance range" on 2d6 is<BR>&gt;about plus or minus 4 points.<BR><BR>Plus or minus 5, but I take your point.&nbsp; The skill levels ride the<BR>2d6 curve providing marginally more effect on low rolls and<BR>marginally less effect on high rolls. <BR><BR>&gt;&gt; In T4, EVERY point of your Stat counts.&nbsp; EVERY point of your<BR>&gt;&gt; level counts.&nbsp; And, both of those numbers DETERMINE the<BR>&gt;&gt; character's success<BR><BR>&gt;Is there no random variation in T4?&nbsp; I don't think I've seen it.<BR><BR>Sure.&nbsp; The difficulty level is the number of dice your roll and you<BR>try to roll below your Stat+Skill on the dice.&nbsp; Say, the difficulty<BR>level is 3d6 and you have Stat-8 and Skill-2, you'd try to roll<BR>below 10 on the 3d. <BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Neither T4 or KB3 are systems where chance is the primary factor<BR>&gt;&gt; (like it is in CT/MT).<BR><BR>&gt;By my calculations, both have about the same skill/chance ratio.<BR>&gt;In CT, about 6:8.&nbsp; In KB3, about 18:20.&nbsp; The numbers are bigger and<BR>&gt;far more complex to obtain, but the final skill/chance ratio is<BR>&gt;very similar in both systems.<BR><BR>I find that interesting!<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; See...2D6 + mods systems are really only one step above mechanics<BR>&gt;&gt; you see in Monopoly.<BR><BR>&gt;In that sense, so is yours.&nbsp; As with you, no offense intended.<BR><BR>Hey, I'll surprise you both and ask, "What's so wrong with<BR>Monopoly?"&nbsp; &lt;bg&gt;<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 21:02:56 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR><BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; In my PBEM's I do all the rolling.&nbsp; I'd have to roll twice, but<BR>&gt; that's not really a big deal.&nbsp; The player could tell me to "pull the<BR>&gt; punch" or "go all out" on important rolls, I suppose.<BR><BR>Unless you use either the pre-rolled KB3 D throws I mentioned in another post--or<BR>simply used KB3 with static target numbers (but...why?)<BR><BR>Set up a spread sheet to print you out 100 outcomes for each of the difficulty levels.<BR>Simply use that when you are doing your rolling for the players.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; I think the real conceptional difference is the contested rolls.&nbsp; Of<BR>&gt; course, Ken and his bunch are d6 players, so they predisposed to<BR>&gt; like big honking handfuls of dice.<BR><BR>Oh...yeah baby!<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &lt;g&gt; But, there *is* an elegance<BR>&gt; to having the number of dice you can roll increase as your skill<BR>&gt; increase.<BR><BR>It's friggin' fun!<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Tim, if I may I call you Tim, I bet you like rolling low on 3d6<BR>&gt; against a target number don't you?&nbsp; Not that there is anything wrong<BR>&gt; with that!&nbsp; &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Are you tring to insult the guy, Eris?<BR><BR>Be nice!<BR><BR>(Tim...that was a joke, btw...don't take it the wrong way. :))<BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 21:13:36 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The New Traveller Task System)<BR><BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Hey, I'll surprise you both and ask, "What's so wrong with<BR>&gt; Monopoly?"&nbsp; &lt;bg&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>It doesn't reflect the skill or attributes of your properties with the single,<BR>unmodified die your roll!<BR><BR>8-&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 21:16:06 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR><BR>On 12/19/00 at 09:02 PM,&nbsp; Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Tim, if I may I call you Tim, I bet you like rolling low on 3d6<BR>&gt;&gt; against a target number don't you?&nbsp; Not that there is anything wrong<BR>&gt;&gt; with that!&nbsp; &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;Are you tring to insult the guy, Eris?<BR><BR>&gt;Be nice!<BR><BR>&gt;(Tim...that was a joke, btw...don't take it the wrong way. :))<BR>&gt; Kenneth.<BR><BR>OH, BOY!&nbsp; Are you going to be surprised when I post a 3d6 based<BR>system. ;-p&nbsp; <BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 19:20:50 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: RE: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR><BR>&gt;From: "J. Paul Sanders" &lt;timmon@primenet.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: RE: (OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR>...<BR>&gt;Please bear in mind that 'Legates' claim to being an American are likely<BR>&gt;just as tenuous as his past claims of being a 1) Jewish Terrorist, 2)<BR>&gt;Scottish Highlander, or 3) Spy/Secret Agent Man (take your pick)... :)<BR>&gt;Before you give his flame-baiting more than a passing thought, consider the<BR>&gt;source and instead of nurturing his delusions by way of serious debate,<BR>&gt;rather urge him to resume taking his medication(s).<BR><BR>&nbsp; I've tried that - I wonder if the TML isn't some sort of therapy<BR>encounter group for him?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 19:20:59 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR><BR>&gt;From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR>...<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Actually, IIRC those are named for Kommissar Hudson, who as one of<BR>&gt;&gt;the more demented miniatures war-gamers in the Traveller Socialist<BR>&gt;&gt;Conspiracy suggested the idea one afternoon at the art gallery cafe.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Oh ;(&nbsp; Oops.&nbsp; Well, good work, in any case!<BR><BR>&nbsp; Rob Prior and his software did all the work, of course. I still<BR>want to look at the design sequence for NPD's in GURPS, though.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Mind you, the comment "game over!" is fairly apt for when one of<BR>those manages to land on your position :&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 18:57:54<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Filkin' Tom Waits<BR><BR>At 11:52 AM 12/19/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Talking Heads?&nbsp; Ramones?&nbsp; No, I missed these :(&nbsp; Please send them <BR>&gt;over to me, or point me off to where I can find them!<BR><BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/travfilk.html<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 19:00:37<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>At 11:52 AM 12/19/2000 PST, you wrote:<BR>&gt;In mail you write:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Won't *that* be fun!&nbsp; You think they'll "come after it" like they did when <BR>&gt;&gt; they were threatened with water shortages?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Slight problem. To do that. they'd have to fight through almost all of<BR>&gt;Oregon. And *we* don't have those silly gun laws that California does...<BR><BR>Will use Soviet-style human wave assaults.&nbsp; I always knew that the<BR>population of Los Angeles would come in handy someday..<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 19:19:59<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller related (really!!)<BR><BR>At 10:47 AM 12/19/2000 -0800, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;How does the 3I handle disparity of rank in the military.&nbsp; What I mean is,<BR>&gt;how does one handle a situation, say, where a non-noble colonel has command<BR>&gt;of a captain who also happens to be Marquis of Valhalla (or whatever).&nbsp; Are<BR>&gt;there formal rules and regulations to deal with this, or just custom.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Specifically, how does one maintain unity of command in this situation?<BR><BR>In GF, I make it clear that orders come down the chain of command.&nbsp; A noble<BR>E-2 that tried to use his social rank would soon find himself getting all<BR>the shit details, until he used his pull to get out of the service.<BR><BR>Others have mentioned Prince Andrew in the Falklands War.. here was the son<BR>of the Monarch, flying a helicopter in harm's way, with no authority beyond<BR>that given by the Royal Navy.<BR><BR>So, let's say that Marine Colonel Fred Blasey is from a dirt farm on Spud,<BR>and under his command is Force Lt. Blaine haut-Wigglesworth, Baron Spud.<BR>In military situations, the good Baron is legally subject to the orders of<BR>Colonel Blasey.&nbsp; In purely social situations, Blaine will have all the<BR>advantages, but would do well to remember that this peasant is also the man<BR>who signs off on his efficiency reports.<BR><BR>In any event, a noble with real administrative responsibilities would<BR>probably accept separation from the service.&nbsp; Marine Kemp's only holding is<BR>a minor mining colony that he's never even seen.&nbsp; If somehow he suddenly<BR>found himself ascending to his father's position as Duke Star Lane, he<BR>would have to leave the service.&nbsp; Remember, this is how Duke Norris left<BR>the Navy.<BR><BR>Hope this helps, since I'm typing while sleep-deprived.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 14:32:40 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Reft sector X-boat link<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Any observer in an inertial frame will see the ship as having the<BR>&gt; same vector when it leaves jumps that it had when entering jump. I<BR>&gt; guess that's the relativistic sense?<BR><BR>It gets trickier when gravity is involved.&nbsp; 30 km/s at Earth orbit<BR>isn't the same as 30 km/s isn't the same as 30 km/s in interstellar<BR>space, and different again from intergalactic space.&nbsp; It depends upon<BR>the spacetime path you take.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Keep in mind that there is going to be "Space Traffic Control" (STC)<BR>&gt; and they'll be telling you exactly what course to follow. Given that<BR>&gt; a 100 ton ship at 100+ km/sec will hit like a fair sized nuke,<BR>&gt; they'll have you taking a somewhat less than direct course. :-)<BR><BR>Isn't that only a problem if the thrusters fail in flight?&nbsp; You need<BR>thrusters to decelerate regardless of whether you accelerate before<BR>jump or after.&nbsp; So I don't see how it makes a difference.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Usually, it is 100 diameters out from the destination world, on a line which<BR>&gt; reaches back to the origin point.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Or, the ship can come out at a plotted point, at the point with a variation of<BR>&gt; +D-D times 50,000 km, along the line between origin and destination.<BR><BR>What is D, here?&nbsp; Is it an abbreviation for 1D6 (hence "+D-D" means<BR>the same as 2D-7), or is it Diameter?<BR><BR><BR>&gt; As you can see, things aren't all that well settled. :-)<BR><BR>Ah, yes.&nbsp; I see.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 19:35:21 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: re: Noble vs Military rank<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Noble vs Military rank (was: Traveller related (really!!))<BR>...<BR>&gt;That's the theory, anyway.&nbsp; The reality may be that the Captain's uncle is<BR>&gt;Duke of Blauvelt and is good pals with the General (and dotes on his<BR>&gt;nephew). The captain doesn't get along with his CO, and mentions the fact to<BR>&gt;uncle Bob. Uncle Bob chat's with the general (who, after all is just a fithy<BR>&gt;commoner) about how he's treating the captain.&nbsp; See how this can get ugly.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;So the question again is:&nbsp; does the 3I have formal regulations for dealing<BR>&gt;with this?&nbsp; Who enforces the rules.&nbsp; If military rank carries the day, how<BR>&gt;does the nobility retain is privilidged status?<BR><BR>&nbsp; In systems like this officers who _can't_ handle the implications<BR>rarely get too far, or are simply living (professionally speaking)<BR>on borrowed time. This does mean that a non-professional criteria<BR>is affecting your choice of officers, but the theory is that their<BR>class background should be pre-selecting from the best that your<BR>society can offer anyway.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Prior to industrialization, there was a lot to be said for that.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Steven Hudson<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 19:35:27 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: Finnish and American RPGs<BR><BR>&gt;From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Finnish and American RPGs<BR>...<BR>&gt;&gt;Like the Third Imperium.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Funnily enough, I think I'd prefer to live in the Zhodani Consulate <BR>&gt;or in the Solomani Confederation to the Third Imperium. ;-)<BR><BR>&nbsp; The ZC in canon seems a fairly safe bet, but you _really_ want to<BR>scope out the ref before deciding on the Sollies, IMHO.<BR><BR>...<BR>&gt;But, in my opinion, it is wrong to preach at others that they are <BR>&gt;wrong about their own culture in a generally obnoxious and xenophobic <BR>&gt;manner. Which has been seen here from some.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Whoa! If you can't deal with Canadian cultural superiority, then that's <BR>just too damn bad! Who else can be so smug about being modest?&nbsp; :)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 14:47:47 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR><BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I think the real conceptional difference is the contested rolls.&nbsp; Of<BR>&gt; course, Ken and his bunch are d6 players, so they predisposed to<BR>&gt; like big honking handfuls of dice.<BR><BR>I used to play Shadowrun, and once rolled 98 dice for a task.&nbsp; And<BR>rerolled 6's until they didn't come up 6 anymore.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &lt;g&gt; But, there *is* an elegance to having the number of dice you<BR>&gt; can roll increase as your skill increase.<BR><BR>Hmm -- I dislike the way it increases variance.&nbsp; I must admit it is<BR>fun grabbing 10 dice and rolling them though.&nbsp; (Just don't ask me to<BR>add them all together!)<BR><BR>&gt; Tim, if I may I call you Tim, I bet you like rolling low on 3d6<BR>&gt; against a target number don't you?&nbsp; Not that there is anything wrong<BR>&gt; with that!&nbsp; &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>I like it OK, but it's far from perfect.&nbsp; I'm still looking for the<BR>perfect mechanic.&nbsp; The more I look though, the more I see pretty much<BR>the same thing.&nbsp; There are a few exceptions, but most systems tend to<BR>be equivalent to "fixed skill + GM modifiers compared to random roll",<BR>even if they state otherwise.&nbsp; KB3 fits in here, for example.<BR><BR>Almost always, the mechanic reflects one-off task performance and<BR>doesn't have anything to do with persistent in-game influences.&nbsp; I'm<BR>currently looking for a system that can support persistence.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 20:20:06 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: Those Damn French :)<BR><BR>&gt;From: Ethan Henry &lt;ethan.henry@sitraka.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Those Damn French :)<BR>...<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; You mean that some of you actually know these things? :&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;"Some of you" who? You mean some of us people in Toronto?<BR><BR>&nbsp; People? I've been told that it was just Bloody Upper <BR>Canadians and refugees :&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; BTW, it looks like our winter is over after the half-inch <BR>of snow last week - let the rainy season begin! (/resume) <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 20:20:32 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: RE: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising<BR><BR>&gt;From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: RE: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising Each O<BR>ther in <BR>...<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; to obey the most despised commander in chief in American history.<BR>&gt;&gt;Tricky Dicky, right?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Err...no.&nbsp; That title belongs to President BJC.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Allegedly Nixon's state of mind got to the point where it was obvious<BR>that he was unfit, and discussions started as to just what sorts of<BR>instructions of his were to be obeyed...<BR><BR>&nbsp; At least everyone knew that _a_ state of mind was a bit too <BR>much to expect of Reagan :&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3434<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Wednesday, December 20 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3435<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Traveller related (really!!)<BR>Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR>Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR>Re: YTU and MTU and the OTU, oh my<BR>Re: passport application<BR>Re: Traveller related (really!!)<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Commie Atheist Films (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3417)<BR>Re: Noble vs. military rank<BR>re: Trans-Atlantic Invasion<BR>RE: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR>Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR>Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR>Re: Traveller related (really!!)<BR>Re: Trans-Atlantic Invasion<BR>Re: Jump emergence<BR>Re: Jump Emergence (was re: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising<BR>Re: Filkin' Tom Waits<BR>RE: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>RE: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising Each O ther in General<BR>RE: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 18:10:52 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller related (really!!)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; How does the 3I handle disparity of rank in the military.&nbsp; What I<BR>&gt;&gt; mean is, how does one handle a situation, say, where a non-noble<BR>&gt;&gt; colonel has command of a captain who also happens to be Marquis of<BR>&gt;&gt; Valhalla (or whatever).&nbsp; Are there formal rules and regulations to<BR>&gt;&gt; deal with this, or just custom.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Specifically, how does one maintain unity of command in this<BR>&gt;&gt; situation?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Presumeably the same way the British Navy used to - when you're on<BR>&gt; active service you do what the higher Naval rank says or face court<BR>&gt; martial. The other answer is of course to sell commissions, as this<BR>&gt; way the high ranked nobility (being in general wealthier) will have<BR>&gt; high military ranks. However I don't think the Canon Police will be<BR>&gt; very happy with this latter solution.<BR><BR>There's also the British example of treating different "ranks" and<BR>"titles" held by the same person as different "people".<BR><BR>Thus, as Captain Shugili, he has to obey orders to the Colonel. As<BR>Count Eneri, he can *give* orders.<BR><BR>But invoking one's noble rank to override one's military superior is<BR>likely to be *bad* for one's career, even if you turn out to have been<BR>right in doing so.<BR><BR>If one is wrong, higher nobles may be talking to you regarding treason<BR>charges. And the military will just smile. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 20:01:22 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; In-Reply-To: &lt;01219.023452.0l1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Greetings dear hearts.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; STOP IT!!!! I'm getting jealous... English firearm laws have deprived me <BR>&gt; of one of my pleasures. I haven't fired a rifle since 1996 - grrrrr.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Wish I could think of a good excuse to visit Oregon...<BR><BR>I thought you just gave one. :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 20:04:15 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Well...what do you do when the player needs to roll something in your PBEM?&nbsp; <BR>&gt; Don't you roll for your<BR>&gt; players anyway?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; You could also get one of those net-dice roller thingys, where your PBEM <BR>&gt; players could roll<BR>&gt; electronically and e-mail it to you.<BR><BR>Actually, one list I'm on solved that by having the listserver add a<BR>line to posts with several (I think it was 5?) die rolls in it. So if<BR>you needed a die rolll, it was there. If you didn't, it just wasted a line.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 22:17:32 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR><BR>Timothy Little wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I like it OK, but it's far from perfect.&nbsp; I'm still looking for the<BR>&gt; perfect mechanic.&nbsp; The more I look though, the more I see pretty much<BR>&gt; the same thing.&nbsp; There are a few exceptions, but most systems tend to<BR>&gt; be equivalent to "fixed skill + GM modifiers compared to random roll",<BR>&gt; even if they state otherwise.&nbsp; KB3 fits in here, for example.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Almost always, the mechanic reflects one-off task performance and<BR>&gt; doesn't have anything to do with persistent in-game influences.&nbsp; I'm<BR>&gt; currently looking for a system that can support persistence.<BR><BR>I don't follow you.&nbsp; Can you explain using examples?<BR><BR>Is there another game system you've played that "kinda" is what you're looking for?<BR><BR>What persistent in-game influences are you talking about?<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 22:23:52 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: YTU and MTU and the OTU, oh my<BR><BR>On 12/20/00 at 02:48 AM,&nbsp; Hans Rancke-Madsen &lt;rancke@diku.dk&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;And if I should feel the urge to comment adversely on any of them,<BR>&gt;feel free to take your own advice. But if you want to back up your<BR>&gt;claim to being so allfired tolerant, try to tone down the<BR>&gt;derogatory namecalling.<BR><BR>Hans, I am not going to argue with you about this.&nbsp; I suggest you go<BR>back and reread your original post to me.&nbsp; It struck me as<BR>patronizing, even so, I should not have given in to the urge to be<BR>snide in my reply.&nbsp; If you felt I was calling you names, I will<BR>apologize.<BR><BR>However, I will continue to post my opinions and ideas...including<BR>those where we disagree.&nbsp; Seldom will you find that they match your<BR>set of requirements, so you will often find my posts of little<BR>interest to you.&nbsp; If you choose to read them, and find them<BR>uninteresting, I apologize in advance.&nbsp; If you choose to ignore<BR>them, my feelings won't be hurt.&nbsp; IAC, I won't be ignoring yours,<BR>but if you ask me to I can pretend that I am.<BR><BR>I do apologize for any derogatory namecalling I may have done.&nbsp; Not<BR>only is that not my style, but I really do value the high signal to<BR>noise ratio we have in the TML.&nbsp; Rest assured, I'm *not* going to<BR>flame anyone here.<BR><BR>You know, in many netflora I would be pilloried for apologizing and<BR>passing up a chance for a rip roaring flame fest. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 23:32:08 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: passport application<BR><BR>At 1:15 PM -0800 12/19/00, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;No, no! The idea isn't to force a decision. It's to enforce your<BR>&gt;*right* of "innocent until *proven* guilty". They can take all the time<BR>&gt;investigating that they want (well, actually, I bet there are legal<BR>&gt;limits on that). But they can't make you put your life on hold while<BR>&gt;they investigate!<BR><BR>Er, yes, well, without torching the subject of American Justice(tm) <BR>and throwing it into the pre-heated pool of kerosene that is the TML, <BR>or delving into the stack of legal correspondence on my desk and thus <BR>way, way off topic -- an event I always abhor -- let me just say <BR>that's certainly the idea; and the praxis should follow in theory. <BR>Or should theory follow praxis?&nbsp; Well, anyway, the the two are not <BR>quite perfectly synchronized.<BR><BR>&gt;At the very least, they need to provide you with certified copies of<BR>&gt;those originals you submitted, so that you can get live in a more or<BR>&gt;less normal manner.<BR><BR>Frankly, I was doing a pretty miserable job of that beforehand; this <BR>just gives me a laugh track.<BR><BR>&gt;The point is that until they can *prove* you aren't a citizen, they are<BR>&gt;*required* to treat you like a citizen. That's been demonstrated in<BR>&gt;court time after time.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Since you say lawyers are already involved, be sure to check with them<BR>&gt;regarding what sort of records you need to keep of the ways in which<BR>&gt;all this has interfered with your life, your education, and your<BR>&gt;livelihood. That way, after you are found to be a citizen, you can sue<BR>&gt;them for the inconvenience.<BR><BR>You're laughing *with* me, not *at* me, right? ;)<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 20:35:37 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller related (really!!)<BR><BR>&gt;From: Bill Rutherford &lt;worj@home.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Traveller related (really!!)<BR>...<BR>&gt;&gt;Specifically, how does one maintain unity of command in this situation?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Further, how'd the British Army handle it?&nbsp; It would seem similar, to me...<BR><BR>&nbsp; Depends on the period; once things like formal commissions came<BR>into use the problem was already being addressed. In battle proper<BR>the chain of command almost always worked as expected - the weak<BR>links failed for other reasons.<BR><BR>&nbsp; OTOH, the damage that deference from a military superior to a <BR>sub-ordinates (of superior social, political, or economic status)<BR>sensibilities can inflict on operations or strategic choices can<BR>be pretty amazing ... and that's before actual conflicting goals<BR>becomes an issue.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Not that class/caste systems have monopolies on these problems.<BR>You can always screw with PC's expectations...<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Steven Hudson<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 23:36:35 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>At 7:00 PM -0500 12/19/00, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Will use Soviet-style human wave assaults.&nbsp; I always knew that the<BR>&gt;population of Los Angeles would come in handy someday..<BR><BR>Hey, I thought the LA basin was going to just suck the H2O out of its <BR>proletariat of color?&nbsp; That's what the Onion said, anyway.<BR><BR>http://www.theonion.com/onion3210/lasiphonwater.html<BR><BR>Still, if I have to come back to the PNW to defend our precious <BR>groundwaterly fluids, so be it.<BR><BR>ObTrav:&nbsp; Fremen among us.<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 22:35:51 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>On 12/19/00 at 02:38 PM,&nbsp; "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;Come to Oregon, and we will let you shoot machineguns.&nbsp; Next fun<BR>&gt;shoot is in May 2001. Two full days of full auto fun.<BR><BR>Hey, that could be the slogan for Oregon's tourist advertising<BR>campaign!&nbsp; I can see it now...bumper stickers, TV commercials with<BR>snappy visuals and deafening sound effects, tiny machinegun trinkets<BR>and paper weights.&nbsp; It would bring in just the sort of folks Oregon<BR>wants, right?<BR><BR>Ob Trav:&nbsp; any stupid tourist ad campaign that the PC's get mixed up<BR>with<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 23:41:59 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Commie Atheist Films (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3417)<BR><BR>At 10:01 AM +1000 12/20/00, Alan Bradley wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;There is sillier headgear in an earlier Soviet film - Aelita, an SF film<BR>&gt;made around 1926.&nbsp; The oppressed Martian masses wear boxes on their heads!<BR>&gt;It's symbolic, of course, (the "boxes" are actually blinkers, like horses<BR>&gt;wear), but it still looks incredibly stupid.<BR><BR>Now hold on a damn second.&nbsp; That is *the* grandmother of all <BR>celluloid sci-fi style you're slagging there.&nbsp; And a freakin' great <BR>film, too.<BR><BR>&gt;The main thing that would make it interesting to gamers is the battle<BR>&gt;scene.&nbsp; It's quite well done, despite the German knights wearing buckets on<BR>&gt;their heads.&nbsp; With the music, it raises the hair on the back on my neck.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;It is based on historical events.&nbsp; The battle was called "The Ice<BR>&gt;Slaughter" by contemporary chroniclers.&nbsp; It was fought on a frozen-over<BR>&gt;lake (Lake Peipus), was conspicuously bloody, and something happened at the<BR>&gt;end which happens in the film too, and I don't want to spoil it.<BR><BR>Probably many of you already know this, but I couldn't resist the <BR>temptation to a) show off and b) add to the OT content:&nbsp; the famous <BR>'battle on the ice' scene was actually filmed in a particularly <BR>unpleasant salt flat somewhere around Alma-Ata, in mid-summer.&nbsp; With <BR>little to no logistical support; not even, I'm told, a water trailer. <BR>Which makes the sufferings of all those USC students in rubber suits <BR>working as extas for _Dune_ kinda pale in comparison.&nbsp; But hey, it <BR>was war.&nbsp; "They also serve who run around in heavy costume showing <BR>full profile".&nbsp; Etc.<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 23:44:48 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Noble vs. military rank<BR><BR>At 1:58 AM +0100 12/20/00, Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;IMTU the IN is very much influenced by the RN. I even have the equivalent of<BR>&gt;warrant officers (which is definitely non-canonical).<BR><BR>Could you tell me (us) what exactly warrant officers were/are/will <BR>be?&nbsp; I've never been clear on this at all.&nbsp; I'd be interested to hear <BR>about your adaptation.<BR><BR>Just watched the Aliens movies again and noticed that Ripley was <BR>originally described as a warrant officer, but after the middle of <BR>the second film was strictly "Lieutenant Ripley".&nbsp; Any explanations <BR>for that?&nbsp; (Not strictly Trav, I know.)<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 20:47:40 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: re: Trans-Atlantic Invasion<BR><BR>&gt;From: Steve Charlton &lt;steve.charlton@ifsna.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Trans-Atlantic Invasion<BR>...<BR>&gt;I read in an issue of Military History (or Military History Quarterly; all<BR>&gt;the names are far too similar!) that a plan was drawn up in late 1940 for a<BR>&gt;cross-atlantic invasion of Europe, in case the UK surrendered or was invaded.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;You have probably read about how seasick and weak some of the troops were<BR>&gt;after shipping to France from England on D-Day.&nbsp; Can you imagine how bad the<BR>&gt;troops would have been after a trans-Atlantic crossing?<BR><BR>&nbsp; It wouldn't be _too_ bad - the Irish wouldn't have been able<BR>to put up too much effective resistance :|<BR><BR>&nbsp; I'm not sure which would be better - adding several years to the<BR>project by going through Suez/Morocco, or simply offering Franco<BR>the largest bribe in history?&nbsp; :&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 23:46:35 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR><BR>At 7:20 PM -0800 12/19/00, Steven Hudson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;Please bear in mind that 'Legates' claim to being an American are likely<BR>&gt;&gt;just as tenuous as his past claims of being a 1) Jewish Terrorist, 2)<BR>&gt;&gt;Scottish Highlander, or 3) Spy/Secret Agent Man (take your pick)... :)<BR>&gt;&gt;Before you give his flame-baiting more than a passing thought, consider the<BR>&gt;&gt;source and instead of nurturing his delusions by way of serious debate,<BR>&gt;&gt;rather urge him to resume taking his medication(s).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; I've tried that - I wonder if the TML isn't some sort of therapy<BR>&gt;encounter group for him?<BR><BR>No, don't be ridiculous, that would be sick and wrong!&nbsp; Not at all! <BR>And even if it is true, so what?&nbsp; You got a problem with someone <BR>looking for hel --<BR><BR>Oh.&nbsp; Wait.&nbsp; You're not talking about me.<BR><BR>I knew that.<BR><BR>never mind.<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 22:46:18 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Actually, one list I'm on solved that by having the listserver add a<BR>&gt; line to posts with several (I think it was 5?) die rolls in it. So if<BR>&gt; you needed a die rolll, it was there. If you didn't, it just wasted a line.<BR><BR>That's a good idea.<BR><BR>Good input, Leonard.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 23:49:34 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR><BR>At 7:20 PM -0800 12/19/00, Steven Hudson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Mind you, the comment "game over!" is fairly apt for when one of<BR>&gt;those manages to land on your position :&gt;<BR><BR>Speaking of adapting Traveller to the most quotable sci-fi character <BR>of all time(*), does anyone have a valid design for a "sonic <BR>electronic ball-breaker" per USCM specs?<BR><BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR><BR>(*)&nbsp; Waiting eagerly to be contradicted :)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 21:02:59 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller related (really!!)<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Thom Harris" &lt;thomharr@mediaone.net&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Traveller related (really!!)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Consider Napoleon.....what aristocracy did he belong too or his officers? <BR><BR>&nbsp; IIRC, Napoleon was exactly the kind of officer that the Segur ordinances<BR>and St. Cyr were designed to engender - professional, careerist, and _not_<BR>wealthy enough to behave like landed magnates. And asides from his careful<BR>selection of generals who owed everything to him, much of the French<BR>military continued to run as before, and often using the same officers as<BR>the Royalist forces had, especially once the emigres started returning.<BR><BR>&nbsp; As others have noted before, political disturbances on individual<BR>worlds of the Imperium can move _lots_ of talent into the mercenary<BR>hiring halls, as it were...<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Steven Hudson<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 20:19:12 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Trans-Atlantic Invasion<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Lots of interesting questions.&nbsp; And is military toilet paper still <BR>&gt;&gt; as rough<BR>&gt;&gt; in the 53rd centory as it is today?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Yep, and the K-Rats are still just as bad.<BR><BR>Neither C-rats/K-rats nor MREs are *nearly* as bad as some folks claim<BR>they are. Then again, they never had the "pleasure" of eating what a<BR>few guys in my patrol in Boy Scouts produced when they tried to cook<BR>(hint, after two attempts, we altered the chore rotation so that these<BR>two guys were *never* any closer to the food than acting as "gopher"<BR>for whoever was cooking)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 20:23:52 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;"It" doesn't know anything, of course. It's simply a function of jump<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;navigation. The astrogator includes some function that compensates for time<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;lapse. Or something. Don't ask me, I'm not an astrogator.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Sorry, but that's invoking "magic" as an explanation. The point being<BR>&gt;&gt;that since it is canonical that the astrogator doesn't know how long<BR>&gt;&gt;the jump will take, then it's *impossible* for him to do that.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Since no one knows how jump navigation works, you can't say for sure whether<BR>&gt; it involves a time-dependent function or not. I see nothing impossible there.<BR><BR>It involves a *phsyical* function that has to somehow "know" what you<BR>intend. <BR><BR>But there's no point in continuing this discussion as you seem to think<BR>that adding all of your special cases is somehow close to "canon" that<BR>my take on things. It's obvious that we not only don't agree, we don't<BR>even agree on what we are talking about. :-(<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 20:30:38 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Jump Emergence (was re: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Bruce Macintosh wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; The answer I've suggested several times before - which makes by far<BR>&gt;&gt; the most sense - is that your emergence point moves at a velocity<BR>&gt;&gt; equal to the velocity you had when you entered jumpspace.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Makes sense to me.&nbsp; How does travel time interact with jump masking?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Say your exit-point velocity is 1000 km/s toward the center of the<BR>&gt; planet.&nbsp; Say your planned exit point is right on the edge of the 100D<BR>&gt; limit.&nbsp; It's clear enough that if you arrive early, you'll be further<BR>&gt; from the planet than you planned.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; But what if you arrive late?&nbsp; You can't exit jump any closer to the<BR>&gt; planet due to the 100D limit.&nbsp; *Can* you arrive late?<BR><BR>Official word from mark is that you exit jump when you encounter the<BR>100 diameter limit. Period.<BR><BR>But he goes on to say that the jump takes the same amount of time as it<BR>would have if you hadn't hit the limit.<BR><BR>The two ideas in combo lead to some "interesting" situations if a<BR>planet or asteroid is moving across the "line" your ship is following<BR>in jump. If you take 168 hours, and it is at the halfway point at 84<BR>hours, then you'd cross its 100 diameter limit and drop out of jump.<BR><BR>But since you drop out of jump after 168 hours, at that time it *won't*<BR>be in the way. So you don't drop out of jump.<BR><BR>&lt;sigh&gt;<BR><BR>You can almost make it consistent by assuming that the ship covers the<BR>distance of the jump instantaneously, then sits at the exit point until<BR>"the jump bubble collapses". But that opens up other cans of worms...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 21:27:14 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising<BR><BR>...<BR>&gt;on their front page. He did however, get us out of Vietnam!!!! <BR><BR>&nbsp; ObTrav: by 1105, how much of a backwater does a place have to be<BR>before the locals start trusting the Impies? :&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 21:30:38 -0800<BR>From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>Subject: Re: Filkin' Tom Waits<BR><BR>Glenn Grant &lt;neo@total.net&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Well it ain't as sharply-pointed as Kenji's reworkings of great punk<BR>&gt; anthems of yore, but here's the result of my latest bouts of<BR>&gt; insomnia...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; (Oi! Kenj, you didn't see my XTC and Talking Heads filks, did you?<BR>&gt; I'll send 'em off-list.&nbsp; I think you saw the Ramones take, yes?)<BR><BR>ROTFLMAO!!!&nbsp; I've never seen Tom Waits filked before, excellent <BR>job.<BR><BR>- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 18:59:56 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>Jones, Dean wrote :<BR><BR>&gt; The British TV licence is another. I can still scarcely credit that I have<BR>&gt; to pay 100 a year for the privelidge of owning a television :)<BR><BR>Actually this is a good thing IMO.<BR><BR>It's not for the privilege of owning a television, BTW. You don't have to<BR>pay your license fee if you own a television, you only have to pay it if the<BR>_tuner_ in the television is working.<BR><BR>What you're paying for is the television you're watching, not the privilege<BR>of owning the television. It's basically just like paying for cable TV, only<BR>much, much cheaper.<BR><BR>Given the high quality of BBC television programs in general, 100 a year is<BR>IMO a cheap price to pay for them.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 22:56:37 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>On 12/19/00 at 05:23 PM,&nbsp; "Bruce Macintosh" &lt;bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net&gt; said:<BR><BR><BR>&gt;jump-emergence-point-moves-at-velocity-ship-had-when-it-jumped<BR>&gt;achieves all the steering objectives. Jump into empty space? Fine,<BR>&gt;you don't care what your entrance velocity was. Jumping to a<BR>&gt;planet? Match to the planets expected velocity, and your emergence<BR>&gt;point will move along with it if you arrive<BR>&gt;late. Jumping into a rendezvous point elsewhere in a solar system?<BR>&gt;Match velocities<BR>&gt;to be stationary with respect to the target star. Nice and easy.<BR><BR>Bruce, it may be nice and simple, but I still don't buy it.<BR><BR>IMTU, the astrogator plans a jump for a point where she wants to<BR>emerge.&nbsp; If all goes well, the ship will emerge, more or less, at<BR>that point, 168 hours, more or less, later.&nbsp; If the accuracy isn't<BR>spot on, the ship will be emerging somewhere other than where the<BR>astrogator plotted.&nbsp; If the timing isn't spot on, the ship may be<BR>where the astrogator aimed, but whatever she was aiming at won't be.<BR><BR>YMMV, of course.<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 23:59:54 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: RE: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising Each O ther in General<BR><BR>On 12/19/00 at 10:21 AM,&nbsp; "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;It's not all that bad. One might argue that the US is starting to<BR>&gt;develop an aristocracy of its own, in the form of political<BR>&gt;families such as the Bushs and the Kennedys. While it's true that<BR>&gt;in theory that some kid from the projects can rise to become<BR>&gt;president, it strikes me as rather unlikely. <BR><BR>Sure, it's unlikely, but...<BR><BR>Clinton is from a poor, even deprived, background.&nbsp; He has been a<BR>career politician, and a self-made man.<BR><BR>Bush is from a wealthy family, but they weren't especially powerful.<BR><BR>Reagan is from a lower middle class family.&nbsp; He became wealthy and<BR>influencial in his first career, and that gave him an entre into his<BR>second, politics.<BR><BR>Carter's family were dirt farmers in central Georga, certainly not<BR>rich.&nbsp; HIs first career was in the navy, followed by local and state<BR>politics.<BR><BR>Ford is middle class, the epitome of middle class.&nbsp; Again a career<BR>politician<BR><BR>Nixon was a poor man, a lot like Clinton...a much darker version, of<BR>course...but a man that made himself up as he went.<BR><BR>I know pundents and commentators talk about an American Aristocracy,<BR>but I think most of it is just talk. <BR><BR>I won't be surprised when a President born in "the projects" is<BR>elected, and I do think it will happen sooner or later.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Many Europeans have come to this country to escape those two<BR>&gt;&gt; influences.&nbsp; We have the idea of democracy, and believe that the<BR>&gt;&gt; government should be legally limited in what it can do to<BR>&gt;&gt; peoples' lives.&nbsp; We believe in rule of law, rather than of<BR>&gt;&gt; leaders, which is why the military continued to obey the most<BR>&gt;&gt; despised commander in chief in American history.<BR><BR>&gt;Tricky Dicky, right?<BR><BR>I suspect the reference was to Clinton, not Nixon.&nbsp; It fits both, in<BR>some ways, though.<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 00:01:39 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: RE: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising<BR><BR>On 12/19/00 at 08:20 PM,&nbsp; shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson) said:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; to obey the most despised commander in chief in American history.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;Tricky Dicky, right?<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Err...no.&nbsp; That title belongs to President BJC.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; Allegedly Nixon's state of mind got to the point where it was<BR>&gt;obvious that he was unfit, and discussions started as to just what<BR>&gt;sorts of instructions of his were to be obeyed...<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; At least everyone knew that _a_ state of mind was a bit too&nbsp; much<BR>&gt;to expect of Reagan :&gt;<BR><BR>Be nice, Steven!&nbsp; We don't talk about your favorite uncles...or<BR>Prime Ministers that way.&nbsp; ;-p<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3435<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Wednesday, December 20 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3436<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Fw: passport application<BR>RE: Noble vs. military rank<BR>Re: Jump Emergence (was re: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>RE: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR>Re: KB3 Question: whiny<BR>Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR>Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help onCT&nbsp;&nbsp; task)<BR>Re: The New Traveller Task System)<BR>Re: The New Traveller Task System)<BR>Re: Jump Emergence (was re: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>RE: TV licencing (was Naming laws). Rant warning.<BR>RE: Reft sector X-boat link<BR>RE: Used books store (was: Really open question...)<BR>OT: DUNE Messiah!<BR>RE: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Those Damn French :) <BR>Re: Those Damn French :) <BR>Re: Those Damn French :) <BR>Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 22:05:39 -0800<BR>From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Fw: passport application<BR><BR>Shit, Kenji, your reply-to-karma nailed me!&nbsp; You're gonna get two copies of<BR>this cause I sent it *just to you* by mistake!<BR><BR>(As opposed to the private messages we accidentally sent to the list...)<BR>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>To: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Date: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 10:02 PM<BR>Subject: Re: passport application<BR><BR><BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;At 4:22 PM -0500 12/18/00, Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;Taking the liberty of taking this off-list, since it doesn't &gt;&gt;seem<BR>plausibly Trav-related, AND it's mostly personal &gt;&gt;stuff... yes, it takes<BR>both factors to make me stop &gt;&gt;spamming the list&nbsp; :)<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;Crap.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Good thing I deleted that long commentary on the probable &gt;personal habits<BR>of those four *special* TML luminaries... &gt;yeah, you know which ones I<BR>mean...<BR>&gt;<BR>Shhh!!!<BR><BR>Do you really want *everyone* to know I had a certain person's Koch between<BR>my ****?&nbsp; While Hechler... watched?<BR><BR>Kenji-chama, these are things I would only tell you.&nbsp; (and those members of<BR>the TML that were present, of course...)<BR><BR>LOL<BR>kirichan yori&nbsp; ^_^<BR><BR>(if I don't get penguin boy's keyboard with this one I might as well hangup<BR>my g-string...)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 19:35:21 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Noble vs. military rank<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Kenji Schwarz<BR>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, 20 December 2000 17:45<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Cc: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Noble vs. military rank<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; At 1:58 AM +0100 12/20/00, Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;IMTU the IN is very much influenced by the RN. I even have the<BR>&gt; equivalent of<BR>&gt; &gt;warrant officers (which is definitely non-canonical).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Could you tell me (us) what exactly warrant officers were/are/will<BR>&gt; be?&nbsp; I've never been clear on this at all.<BR><BR>A Warrant Officer is someone who holds a Warrant from the Crown, rather than<BR>a Commission<BR><BR>They are effectively the top level of the NCO (Non-Commissioned Officer)<BR>ranks<BR>There are two Warrant ranks.<BR><BR>These ranks relate to the ranks Sergeant Major and (I think) Regimental<BR>Sergeant Major in the Army, Petty Officer &amp; Chief Petty Officer in the Navy,<BR>and just Warrant Officer One&nbsp; and Warrant Officer Two in the Airforce.<BR><BR>&gt; Just watched the Aliens movies again and noticed that Ripley was<BR>&gt; originally described as a warrant officer, but after the middle of<BR>&gt; the second film was strictly "Lieutenant Ripley".<BR><BR>In the second film she was given an "honorary" military rank to allow her to<BR>work with the Colonial Marines on the Sularco, a common practice when<BR>civilian advisors are attached to military commands.<BR><BR>The Warrant Officer rank was the rank she held on the _merchant_ ship the<BR>Nostromo, and the rank by which the Company referred to her at the beginning<BR>of the movie.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:30:44 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump Emergence (was re: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Official word from mark is that you exit jump when you encounter the<BR>&gt; 100 diameter limit. Period.<BR><BR>That's what I thought.&nbsp; Not too far off what I do IMTU.&nbsp; Entry to<BR>jumpspace takes effectively no time (though there are strange temporal<BR>distortions associated with bridging the spaces).&nbsp; Travel in jumpspace<BR>takes no time.&nbsp; Exit from jumpspace is what takes the week or so, due<BR>to interaction with jumpspace domain boundaries (the hex grid on a<BR>Traveller star map).<BR><BR>So from a jump-masking point of view, only the set of 100D limits on<BR>the *instantaneous* path from jump entry to jump exit matters.&nbsp; If the<BR>ship hits one, it drops out of jump a week later.&nbsp; I haven't decided<BR>whether it gets "dragged" by a moving 100D boundary or not.&nbsp; Either<BR>way would be fairly consistent.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; You can almost make it consistent by assuming that the ship covers the<BR>&gt; distance of the jump instantaneously, then sits at the exit point until<BR>&gt; "the jump bubble collapses". But that opens up other cans of worms...<BR><BR>What sort of worms?&nbsp; (As if there aren't enough already!)<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 19:39:41 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR><BR>Kenji Schwarz wrote :<BR>&gt; Speaking of adapting Traveller to the most quotable sci-fi character<BR>&gt; of all time(*), does anyone have a valid design for a "sonic<BR>&gt; electronic ball-breaker" per USCM specs?<BR>&gt; Kenji<BR>&gt; (*)&nbsp; Waiting eagerly to be contradicted :)<BR><BR>You won't be contradicted by me. I agree, and I think "Aliens" is one of the<BR>best, if not _the_ best Science Fiction movie around. It has all the right<BR>elements, and a maximum nunber of quotable quotes.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:37:11 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: KB3 Question: whiny<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; There's really not a whole lot of difference between rolling against<BR>&gt;a target number and rolling two opposed throws.&nbsp; If you think about<BR>&gt;it, a target number is really just a "pre-averaged" opposed throw<BR>&gt;total.<BR><BR>Not even that.&nbsp; The only real difference between the situations in CT<BR>and KB3 is that the GM gets to roll some of the dice in KB3.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Yes, they are.&nbsp; That's where I came up with the difficulties for KB3<BR>&gt; in the first place.&nbsp; (The E-Die should average itself out over a lot<BR>&gt; of throws, so it is not figured in these averages).<BR><BR>The E-die has an interesting effect.&nbsp; It spreads the distribution out<BR>more on the high side than the low (and makes it skip a few numbers in<BR>between).&nbsp; So it does actually have an effect on the averages.<BR><BR>I've got Mathematica code that completely determines the probabilities<BR>for any die-rolling mechanic very easily.&nbsp; I must say having to divide<BR>KB3 rolls into even and odd was a bit unusual.<BR><BR><BR>- - Tim<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:47:51 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The difficulties in KB3 are too unpredictable.<BR><BR>Not really.&nbsp; The distribution isn't much different from any other bell<BR>curve.&nbsp; One question about the mechanic -- are the Skill and<BR>Difficulty rolls made simultaneously?&nbsp; It makes a difference if the<BR>player can choose a lower skill after seeing the outcome of the<BR>Difficulty roll.&nbsp; I'm guessing the player can't choose after.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; I think you'll see your players using all their dice most of the<BR>&gt; time.<BR><BR>Not in your example for lockpicking.&nbsp; I'd rather get a failure than a<BR>marginal success in that case, and probably other cases as well.&nbsp; It<BR>really depends on what the GM does with the levels of success.<BR><BR>In fact, it's that notion of deliberately crippling my ability in<BR>order to satisfy a game mechanic that turns me off any effect where<BR>high skill is worse than low.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; It's kind of like the idea that rolling higher "just feels good".<BR><BR>Never noticed.&nbsp; For me, dice mechanics are a distraction from the<BR>roleplaying, done only to make adjudication easier.&nbsp; If I think about<BR>it in play enough to even notice whether it "feels good", them I'm not<BR>as much in character as I was trying for, either as player or GM (or<BR>both).<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 19:59:39 +1300<BR>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting (was Re: Gone blind - need help onCT&nbsp;&nbsp; task)<BR><BR>On 19 Dec 00, at 19:49, Dominic Mooney wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; If the number of dice to be thrown for the task roll exceeds the <BR>&gt; number of points of skill, add two extra dice to throw.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; So EASY tasks are fine with one point of skill, but difficult etc are <BR>&gt; much worse. It was a simple and elegant solution to the problem with <BR>&gt; the high STAT low SKILL munchkin.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ISTR that Doug Berry or Andrew Moffatt-Vallance suggested a further <BR>&gt; expansion to this which linked in Jack-of-all-Trades very well too.<BR><BR>J-o-T can be used to "make up" missing skill levels. ie if Skill + J-o-T equal <BR>or exceed the number of dice being rolled you don't get a penalty. But J-o-T <BR>doesn't factor into the actual roll, just lets you avoid the penatly.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:59:50 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The New Traveller Task System)<BR><BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR><BR>Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt; said:<BR>&gt; &gt;That's a bit misleading -- 7 points of that was the expected value.<BR>&gt; &gt;He got a 3-point bonus from chance.&nbsp; The "chance range" on 2d6 is<BR>&gt; &gt;about plus or minus 4 points.<BR><BR>&gt; Plus or minus 5, but I take your point.<BR><BR>No, I did mean 4.&nbsp; I am only counting the middle 90%, else I'd have to<BR>claim that KB3 has 70+ points of random chance instead of about 20.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; The skill levels ride the 2d6 curve providing marginally more<BR>&gt; effect on low rolls and marginally less effect on high rolls.<BR><BR>Depends on what you mean by "effect".&nbsp; I'd say the reverse, since<BR>failure tends to be emphasised in most tasks I've seen, and so a<BR>reduction in failure rate is more important than increase in success<BR>rate.&nbsp; Going from 1/12 failure to 1/36 is more important than going<BR>from 1/36 success to 1/12.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt;Is there no random variation in T4?&nbsp; I don't think I've seen it.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Sure.&nbsp; The difficulty level is the number of dice your roll and you<BR>&gt; try to roll below your Stat+Skill on the dice.&nbsp; Say, the difficulty<BR>&gt; level is 3d6 and you have Stat-8 and Skill-2, you'd try to roll<BR>&gt; below 10 on the 3d. <BR><BR>So skill doesn't determine success.&nbsp; It merely alters the distribution<BR>of random numbers.&nbsp; Like nearly every other game mechanic, CT and KB3<BR>included.&nbsp; In fact, it looks like T4 assigns less importance to skills<BR>than most systems.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt; the final skill/chance ratio is very similar in both systems.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I find that interesting!<BR><BR>I hoped you might.&nbsp; I actually enjoy doing in-depth mathematical<BR>analyses of all sorts of things, game systems included.&nbsp; :^)<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; Hey, I'll surprise you both and ask, "What's so wrong with<BR>&gt; Monopoly?"&nbsp; &lt;bg&gt;<BR><BR>You can't shoot trespassers!&nbsp; ;^&gt;<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 18:30:54 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The New Traveller Task System)<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Any task system incorporates chance.&nbsp; By definition, that's what its<BR>&gt; supposed to do--define an uncertain outcome!<BR><BR>I'd ask "uncertain to whom", but that starts to tread a bit too deeply<BR>into the philosophy behind game system design for general interest.<BR>I'll just say that I don't necessarily agree with you.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; KB3 and T4 base their chance around the character's actual abilities<BR>&gt; and skills.&nbsp; Under these systems, a character's abilities and stats<BR>&gt; DETERMINE what the throw is--not simply modify it.<BR><BR>There's no real difference between "roll 2D6, add skill and stat/3,<BR>compare with difficulty" and "roll skillD6 with event die, subtract<BR>difficultyD6 with event die, and compare with stat".<BR><BR>They are both just ways of determining a joint distribution of skill,<BR>stat, and difficulty.&nbsp; Only the exact formula is different.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; CT and MT go beyond this (and like I said before, I LIKE the CT and<BR>&gt; MT systems...I'm just illustrating a point) by adding modifiers to<BR>&gt; that dice roll, skewing the results of the throw because of the<BR>&gt; individual.&nbsp; You start to see modified results based on a<BR>&gt; character's skills and stats.<BR><BR>Yes, the distribution goes from dependent on difficulty alone, to a<BR>joint distribution between skill, stat and difficulty.<BR><BR>&gt; T4 and KB3 go even farther.&nbsp; In those two systems, what you roll is<BR>&gt; determined by (not modified by) the character's individual skills<BR>&gt; and attributes.<BR><BR>It's still just a joint distribution based on skill, stat, and<BR>difficulty.&nbsp; The size of the numbers changes, and there is a marginal<BR>change in the shape of the distribution.<BR><BR>To make it clearer: Suppose you take the CT system, and relabel it, so<BR>that there are two rolls involved.<BR><BR>One is a "skill" die, of which you have a choice of 7, all numbered<BR>differently.&nbsp; Skill-0 is numbered 1-6 as usual.&nbsp; Skill-1 is numbered<BR>2-7, and so on up to 6.&nbsp; You could even make them flashy colours or<BR>something.&nbsp; The player rolls this one.<BR><BR>The other is a "difficulty" die, also numbered differently for each<BR>difficulty level.&nbsp; The GM rolls this one.<BR><BR>Now, it certainly looks like this task system "goes beyond" simply<BR>modifying the roll.&nbsp; You roll different dice for each skill.&nbsp; The GM<BR>opposes it, with different dice for each difficulty level.&nbsp; In fact,<BR>in "chrome" it looks very similar to KB3.<BR><BR>But it is really just the same mechanic with the old serial numbers<BR>filed off, rebadged under a different product name.&nbsp; You could even<BR>change the numbers so much that they bear little resemblance to the<BR>original.&nbsp; But it's still the same mechanic, with exactly the same<BR>chances of success at any given task.&nbsp; Just more complicated to use.<BR><BR>I'm not saying that all KB3 does is "change the numbers on the dice".<BR>It does introduce new things, such as "high is good, but lower is<BR>better", and explicitly allows voluntary reduction in skill.&nbsp; But<BR>randomness is randomness, and it doesn't matter whether the GM rolls<BR>it or the player rolls it, nor whether it comes from 2D6 or<BR>(skill)D100+D33 divided by the square root of (difficulty x D10).<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 18:54:54 +1100<BR>From: Phill Webb &lt;pwebbtrav@yarranet.net.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump Emergence (was re: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>&gt; Official word from mark is that you exit jump when you encounter the<BR>&gt; 100 diameter limit. Period.<BR><BR>I kind of like the (heretical?) idea that there is no interaction until<BR>jump emergence. If the exit point will be inside the 100d limit then it<BR>gets "pushed" back until it is at the limit.<BR><BR>Of course this probably needs to be quite stressful to the ship or you<BR>could just aim for the planet and let emergence do the work of putting<BR>you at the 100d limit.<BR><BR>Phill<BR>- -- <BR>Read my FudgeT Notes at http://www.yarranet.net.au/phill/fudge/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 08:03:09 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: TV licencing (was Naming laws). Rant warning.<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; On Tue, 19 Dec 2000, Jones, Dean wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; OTOH, even if the government only did collect from those who<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; voluntarily joined certain religions, this would equally run<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; counter to what Americans would consider acceptable for their<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; government.&nbsp; Here the question of why is the government acting<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; as any sort of collection agency for religions would come up.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Thus, it is an example of how the American experience is<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; different from the European one....<BR>&gt; &gt; The British TV licence is another. I can still scarcely <BR>&gt; credit that I have<BR>&gt; &gt; to pay 100 a year for the privelidge of owning a television :)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;Mikko:<BR>&gt; TV licence (presumably a European invention) probably goes <BR>&gt; into funding<BR>&gt; the BBC.<BR><BR>Yeah, it does. They have a public broadcasting remit which requires them to<BR>spend money on stuff that no other channel would screen...at least that's<BR>their excuse for the poor quality of some of their recent programming.<BR>Sitcoms such as Gimme Gimme Gimme (for non-brits it's about a tarty<BR>thirty-something woman who shares a flat with an absurdly camp gay man. It's<BR>now inexplicably in its third/forth series) leave a rather bad taste in my<BR>mouth. It's not all doom and gloom for quality though...the BBC's Classic TV<BR>slots provide some quality...shame that Classic TV is a euphamism for<BR>reruns. Finally, let us not forget that in order to remain competative the<BR>BBC has provided us with some popular shows...various Star Trek series,<BR>Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel, X-files, Seinfeld and the Simpsons...all<BR>great British traditions (all shows I enjoy, however).<BR>The BBC have been funnelling money into setting up their digital channels,<BR>which is a shame for those of us without digital TV subscriptions because<BR>you can't watch any of these expensive new channels with analogue TV.<BR>Persons with digital TV (myself included) have to pay twice to wath<BR>them...once for the TV licence funding and again to our didgital service<BR>provider. <BR>Note that the Beeb also uses its licence fees for non-programming<BR>funding...such as the recent move of executive offices from (IIRC) Shepard<BR>Bush to White City, where they had spend even more of the licence fees on<BR>outfitting plush new offices for the execs. Six months later the suits moved<BR>back again at the licence payers expense, and the offfices were taken over<BR>by another department.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; At least in Finland, it is for Yleisradio, our (at <BR>&gt; least for now)<BR>&gt; government operated radio and TV company. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; And yes, our government-owned TV stations have the most <BR>&gt; trusted news, and<BR>&gt; other programs. I have heard this is difficult for Americans <BR>&gt; to believe.<BR>&gt; B-)<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Probably. I'm British and I can hardly believe it.<BR><BR>&gt; These channels criticize our government more than the <BR>&gt; commercial channels.<BR><BR>The BBCs plotical standpoint seems to depend on how close the current<BR>director general&nbsp; thinks he is to getting nominated for an OBE by the<BR>incumbent government.<BR><BR>&gt; Commercial channels concentrate on getting most viewers with <BR>&gt; least costs,<BR>&gt; and this usually means cheap Finnish shows or imported US series.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; So, for now I don't watch TV. (Except for Futurama and South Park...)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; It is also true that no students pay the TV licence. This <BR>&gt; seems to be a<BR>&gt; matter of principle, because many of my student friends earn <BR>&gt; some 15000<BR>&gt; FIM a month...<BR><BR>Students in the UK are required to pay licence fees. My gf was complaining<BR>the other day because her Halls of Residence (dorms to you transatlantic<BR>types:) ) had a note from the TV detector van chaps reminding them that<BR>every room that had a TV in it counted as a self contained dwelling, and as<BR>such needed a licence if a TV was being operated.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 08:54:18 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Reft sector X-boat link<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;[snip]<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; According to Marc Miller's Jump Space article in the Journal (can't <BR>&gt; find the issue number offhand) velocity is conserved. He is not clear <BR>&gt; whether this includes the relative velocities of the departure and <BR>&gt; destination points. The tables do appear to be inefficient. I am <BR>&gt; shocked and appalled that two pieces of canon conflict. I'm shocked <BR>&gt; and appalled an awful lot 8^)<BR><BR><BR>I seem to remember seeing this article posted on the Net but I can't find it<BR>now...anyone know the URL ?<BR><BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 08:58:53 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Used books store (was: Really open question...)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;Should I expend the $/effort to try to collect the whole <BR>&gt; set [Sector General]?&nbsp; If so, where<BR>&gt; &gt;should I look (other than Amazon, which is not always the <BR>&gt; best price, from<BR>&gt; &gt;what I understand)?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Yes, but I would first look at a used book store, not Amazon.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>Try http://www.bygone-books.demon.co.uk/.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 03:09:36 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: OT: DUNE Messiah!<BR><BR>I didn't want to stay up this late!&nbsp; But, I couldn't put the friggin'<BR>book down!<BR><BR>My eyes are burning from the hour.&nbsp; I've got to get up tomorrow.&nbsp; But,<BR>damn, it was worth it.<BR><BR>Great book!&nbsp; I know some of you didn't like Messiah, but I loved it.<BR>Awesome read.<BR><BR>It's sooo much different than Dune.&nbsp; It seems like a different author<BR>wrote it.&nbsp; Tone's different.&nbsp; Style's different.&nbsp; Story's a lot<BR>different.<BR><BR>But, I liked it so much because it was such an unexpected, fresh<BR>direction.<BR><BR>It's not really a whole novel, IMO.&nbsp; It's more like the extended<BR>epilogue of Dune.&nbsp; "And, here's what happened later..."<BR><BR><BR>I couldn't recommend this book if you hadn't read Dune, but if you do<BR>read Dune, read this one immediately afterwards.<BR><BR>A+.<BR><BR>Really liked it.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:20:32 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Douglas E. Berry [mailto:gridlore@pop.mindspring.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 16 December 2000 08:04<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; At 01:31 PM 12/16/2000 +0200, you wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;And in practice the situation is not unlike European in the <BR>&gt; US. I think<BR>&gt; &gt;you still have to tell different entities where you live, so <BR>&gt; you can get<BR>&gt; &gt;mail, insurance and such things.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; At one point in my life, my only address was a post office <BR>&gt; box, and I paid<BR>&gt; my rent in cash.&nbsp; It was as close as I've ever come to <BR>&gt; completely dropping<BR>&gt; off the state's radar.<BR><BR><BR>Wasn't living in a post office box horribly cramped? :)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:36:52 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Those Damn French :) <BR><BR>From: Ethan Henry &lt;ethan.henry@sitraka.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; It would appear that many gamers (and other right-thinking folk) have a<BR>&gt;&gt; deep contempt for the Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;You mean the same cheese-eating monkeys that financed the American<BR>&gt;War of Independence? No wonder everyone hates Americans - what a bunch<BR>&gt;of ingrates. Sheesh.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; No, back then they were just Cheese-Eating-Monkeys, not<BR>Cheese-Eating-Surrender-Monkeys.&nbsp; There is a difference you know.&nbsp; Also,<BR>that was the Burbon&lt;sp&gt; Kings that financed the American Revolution, not the<BR>current 1,754th French Republic.&nbsp; We like the Kings of France, as they are<BR>usually not French.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:37:51 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Those Damn French :) <BR><BR>From: Steven Hudson &lt;shudson@lightspeed.ca&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;You mean the same cheese-eating monkeys that financed the American<BR>&gt;&gt;War of Independence?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; You mean that some of you actually know these things? :&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; Still, they _are_ the French...&nbsp; :)<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; No, the French are the people who almost took over the world in the<BR>early 1800s, now they are Cheese-Eating-Surrender-Monkeys.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:39:37 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Those Damn French :) <BR><BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Still, they _are_ the French...&nbsp; :)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;If we didn't feel this way toward the French, then the French would<BR>&gt;absolutely no respect for us. :-}<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; No one likes the Cheese-Eating-Surrender-Monkeys, not even the<BR>Cheese-Eating-Surrender-Monkeys themselves like them.&nbsp; The Germans don't &amp;<BR>they tend to try to kill as many of the Cheese-Eating-Surrender-Monkeys as<BR>they can, so do the English, the Spanish, etc.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:42:35 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR><BR>From: J. Paul Sanders &lt;timmon@primenet.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;Please bear in mind that 'Legates' claim to being an American are likely<BR>&gt;just as tenuous as his past claims of being a 1) Jewish Terrorist, 2)<BR>&gt;Scottish Highlander, or 3) Spy/Secret Agent Man (take your pick)... :)<BR>&gt;Before you give his flame-baiting more than a passing thought, consider the<BR>&gt;source and instead of nurturing his delusions by way of serious debate,<BR>&gt;rather urge him to resume taking his medication(s).<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 1. I am Half Jewish, on my Mother's Side.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 2. I am Half Highland Scot on my Father's Side.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 3. I have never claimed to be a Spy or a Secret Agent.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; And, Paul, I would like to ask you why you keep spreading such lies<BR>about me?&nbsp; No, I do not need medication, but it seems you do.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3436<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Wednesday, December 20 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3437<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR>Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR>Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR>RE: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>RE: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>RE: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR>RE: Those Damn French :) <BR>Re: Commie Atheist Films (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3417)<BR>Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR>RE: Noble vs. military rank<BR>RE: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR>Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR>Re: Those Damn French :) <BR>RE: Those Damn French :) <BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:44:29 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR><BR>From: Tage Borg &lt;tage@hem.passagen.se&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I have, they produce some of the best porn around along with some<BR>damn<BR>&gt;&gt; good chocolate.&nbsp; *weg*<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;We make chocolate for export? Hmmm, that's news to me. Or have you been<BR>here<BR>&gt;and tried it? Belgium and Switzerland makes more (and more famous)<BR>chocolate<BR>&gt;than we do. And most of the porn inolving permutations of the word<BR>"Swedish"<BR>&gt;is made somewhere else, I'm sure. The porn that is shown on the expensive<BR>&gt;late-night cable channels is mostly german or american, from what I recall<BR>&gt;from the program listings in the paper.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; *weg* = JOKE.&nbsp; Please keep that in mind.&nbsp; I am hardly ever serious, &amp;<BR>yet you people treat me as such.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:50:00 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR><BR>From: Steven Hudson &lt;shudson@lightspeed.ca&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; But, without our support, the war would never have been won, Doug.<BR>&gt;&gt;Remember, in North Africa alone, the American did in 3 months to Romell's<BR>&gt;&gt;Africa Korps what the Brits did in three years.&nbsp; They also turned the tide<BR>&gt;&gt;of the Battle for North Africa.&nbsp; Without the US, D-Day would never have<BR>&gt;&gt;happened, nor would the invasion of Italy.&nbsp; Yes, we fought along side<BR>them,<BR>&gt;&gt;but Ike was the Overall CO, &amp; we supplied them with everything.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &lt;giggle&gt; Are you trying for "ignorance is bliss", "ignorance is<BR>&gt;strength", or both? In any case, you're _really_ over-doing it...<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Why thank you, now you are finnally getting it.&nbsp; I am not Lennard, there<BR>is now way in hell I am this serious.&nbsp; But, I could pull out facts &amp; figures<BR>if I wanted to to prove my point &amp; you could pull out facts &amp; figures to<BR>prove your point.&nbsp; That is the great thing about history, it is at heart a<BR>Story, &amp; you people are forgetting that.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Look, it depends upon who's history you read, the Americans say that<BR>they won the war, the Brits say they won the War, the French say that France<BR>was never invaded &amp; they won the War, so do the Russians, the Germans, the<BR>Japanese, etc.&nbsp; Everyone who fought in WWII won the war themselves.&nbsp; It is<BR>one of the best &amp; worst documented pieces of history.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 20:31:50 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Timothy Little wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Almost always, the mechanic reflects one-off task performance and<BR>&gt; &gt; doesn't have anything to do with persistent in-game influences.<BR>&gt; &gt; I'm currently looking for a system that can support persistence.<BR><BR>&gt; I don't follow you.&nbsp; Can you explain using examples?<BR><BR>OK, but there's a bit of history behind it and I've never convinced<BR>anyone that it is even worth worrying about.<BR><BR>It has to do with what success and failure represent in the game<BR>world.&nbsp; Bad start, I know, talking about roleplaying game system<BR>philosophy.&nbsp; But I started thinking about it anyway.<BR><BR>Let's take a lockpicking example.&nbsp; Suppose the character succeeds in<BR>unlocking it without setting off any alarms.&nbsp; Here comes the next bad<BR>thought...&nbsp; Why?&nbsp; What does the roll represent?<BR><BR><BR>1) The character got lucky this one time.&nbsp; The roll represents a<BR>favourable set of one-off lucky breaks that she can take advantage of<BR>given her skill level (or lack thereof).<BR><BR>2) The character is familiar with this system, and knows how to apply<BR>her knowledge to reliably disarm the lock.&nbsp; The roll represents the<BR>chance that this lock is one she's familiar with.<BR><BR>3) The character is able to figure out (or make a good guess) how to<BR>disarm it, whether or not she's seen it before.&nbsp; The roll represents<BR>the chance that she can figure it out.<BR><BR>4) There is a fault with this lock that means it never really worked<BR>right anyway and almost anyone could have done it.&nbsp; The roll<BR>represents the chance of coming across a poorly-maintained or<BR>temporarily dysfunctional lock.<BR><BR>...<BR><BR>10) Any combination of the above.<BR><BR><BR>Every possibility has its own set of consequences.&nbsp; For example,<BR>suppose the true situation is (2).&nbsp; Since similar locks tend to be<BR>used throughout a building, future attempts to pick locks in this<BR>building should be near-certain.&nbsp; Likewise with (3).&nbsp; Not with (1) or<BR>(4).&nbsp; However, if one character can't pick a given lock, that pretty<BR>much rules out (4).<BR><BR>Now, most task system apply tasks in isolation.&nbsp; Effectively, this<BR>means that the only thing that a dice roll means in such systems, is<BR>(1) -- one-off, temporary random chance.<BR><BR><BR>I find this grossly limiting.&nbsp; Tasks do not happen in isolation; they<BR>get repeated, performed by different characters, remembered and<BR>discussed, and used for assigning blame and credit.&nbsp; Success or<BR>failure is really only a rather small part of the outcome of a task.<BR><BR>In practice, in my games, I have observed 3 important categories of<BR>features of a task.&nbsp; I've listed them in their order of importance as<BR>I saw them in the course of the games:<BR><BR><BR>1) The causes of an outcome, and how persistent they are between<BR>instances<BR><BR>2) What that outcome actually is in a particular instance<BR><BR>3) What the characters know about the outcome and causes<BR><BR><BR>These can be divided up further, of course, and vary from task to<BR>task.&nbsp; But the most important feature I found, and the one that<BR>actually takes up my of my GMing effort, was ignored by all game<BR>systems I have read.<BR><BR>They almost always focus on a binary aspect of (2) (success/failure)<BR>and usually leave (3) to the GM's whim.&nbsp; (1) is completely ignored and<BR>typically (by default) becomes always a matter of chance.<BR><BR>In practice, I have found that once I know (1), I don't need mechanics<BR>for (2) or (3) -- the outcome and characters' perceptions becomes<BR>obvious.<BR><BR>So I'm looking for a system that help me determine (1), either from<BR>first principles or reverse-engineering from outcomes.&nbsp; Whether this<BR>is by random means or systematic, I don't care.&nbsp; But I want a system<BR>that deals in persistent causes rather than one-off effects.<BR><BR>Seeing yet another system that painstakingly details fine gradations<BR>of success levels, even if it has perfectly hand-crafted and realistic<BR>probabilities for any single task, is not something I'm interested in.<BR>It won't meet my needs.<BR><BR><BR><BR>That's probably enough ranting from me, I'll return you to your<BR>regularly scheduled nation-bashing and jump-exit threads.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:32:01 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &lt;&lt; Why does the US persist in clinging to it hugely <BR>&gt; inefficent insurance<BR>&gt; model of health care? Why does the US allow so many blatantly <BR>&gt; "silly" law<BR>&gt; suits? Why does the US have such a problem with gun control? <BR>&gt; Why does the<BR>&gt; US so fear its own government? All these things seem quite <BR>&gt; baffling to me,<BR>&gt; yet I assume they all make perfect sense if you're on the inside. &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Because it works, no matter what happens, Americans have <BR>&gt; some of the<BR>&gt; best medical care anywhere.&nbsp; Because we like to amuse you <BR>&gt; people in other<BR>&gt; countries, that &amp; we have so many silly laws forced upon us by our own<BR>&gt; government.&nbsp; Ask Jesse about that, we have no problem in <BR>&gt; controling guns, we<BR>&gt; need them to protect us from Canada.&nbsp; Everyone fears their <BR>&gt; own government,<BR>&gt; but in the US you are able to voice that fear.&nbsp; IIRC, in the <BR>&gt; UK &amp; Brittish<BR>&gt; Commonwealth it is illegal to fear your government, is it not?<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>LOL, no, it's illegal to fear Spin-Doctors, sorry, media consultants. <BR><BR>While it's true that medical care is quite excellent in the US, whats the<BR>situation with providing care for people without medical insurance?<BR>Certainly with the National Health Service here in the UK everyone is (in<BR>theory anyway) guaranteed medical care I was not aware this was also the<BR>case in the US. Oh, and what the heck is an HMO? <BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:37:36 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Mikko V. I. Parviainen [mailto:mvparvia@cc.hut.fi]<BR>&gt; Sent: 17 December 2000 09:01<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Because we like to amuse you people in other<BR>&gt; &gt; countries, that &amp; we have so many silly laws forced upon us <BR>&gt; by our own<BR>&gt; &gt; government.&nbsp; <BR><BR>We have some silly laws in the UK too. IIRC, Queen Victoria passed a law<BR>granting pregnant women the right to stop a policeman in the street and<BR>urinate in his helmet, if a public convenience was not available. AFAIK,<BR>this law has not been repealed...<BR><BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:48:59 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Frank G. Pitt [mailto:frankie@mundens.gen.nz]<BR>&gt; Sent: 20 December 2000 06:00<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Jones, Dean wrote :<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; The British TV licence is another. I can still scarcely <BR>&gt; credit that I have<BR>&gt; &gt; to pay 100 a year for the privelidge of owning a television :)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Actually this is a good thing IMO.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; It's not for the privilege of owning a television, BTW. You <BR>&gt; don't have to<BR>&gt; pay your license fee if you own a television, you only have <BR>&gt; to pay it if the<BR>&gt; _tuner_ in the television is working.<BR><BR>Hmmm, I thought the licence had recently been reworded so the tuner doesn't<BR>even have to work. I'll take your word for it, Frank.<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; What you're paying for is the television you're watching, not <BR>&gt; the privilege<BR>&gt; of owning the television. It's basically just like paying for <BR>&gt; cable TV, only<BR>&gt; much, much cheaper.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Given the high quality of BBC television programs in general, <BR>&gt; 100 a year is<BR>&gt; IMO a cheap price to pay for them.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Most Beeb science and docco programs are great. Walking with Dinosaurs is<BR>one of my faves, and Wildlife on One rocks. Shame that they show rubbish<BR>like My Hero. Stlll, quality is better under Dyke than it was under Birt.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 20:53:22 +1100<BR>From: Phill Webb &lt;pwebbtrav@yarranet.net.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR><BR>Timothy Little wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In practice, in my games, I have observed 3 important categories of<BR>&gt; features of a task.&nbsp; I've listed them in their order of importance as<BR>&gt; I saw them in the course of the games:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; 1) The causes of an outcome, and how persistent they are between<BR>&gt; instances<BR><BR><BR>&gt; So I'm looking for a system that help me determine (1), either from<BR>&gt; first principles or reverse-engineering from outcomes.&nbsp; Whether this<BR>&gt; is by random means or systematic, I don't care.&nbsp; But I want a system<BR>&gt; that deals in persistent causes rather than one-off effects.<BR><BR>I think that the system you are looking for is the gm, or maybe a<BR>honking big book of charts.<BR>(everything big that's related to trav honks, right?)<BR><BR>Since I can't be bothered making a "why the lock was so easily picked"<BR>chart I would just make it up on the fly as best suited the scene.<BR><BR>So if they picked the first lock in a complex and all the locks were<BR>similar I would either allow automatic success from that point on or<BR>give a +DM for familiarity.<BR><BR>Phill<BR>- -- <BR>Read my FudgeT Notes at http://www.yarranet.net.au/phill/fudge/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:59:24 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Those Damn French :) <BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; From: Ethan Henry &lt;ethan.henry@sitraka.com&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; It would appear that many gamers (and other right-thinking <BR>&gt; folk) have a<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; deep contempt for the Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;You mean the same cheese-eating monkeys that financed the American<BR>&gt; &gt;War of Independence? No wonder everyone hates Americans - <BR>&gt; what a bunch<BR>&gt; &gt;of ingrates. Sheesh.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; No, back then they were just Cheese-Eating-Monkeys, not<BR>&gt; Cheese-Eating-Surrender-Monkeys.&nbsp; There is a difference you <BR>&gt; know. <BR><BR>I feel I should object to the term Cheese-Eating-Surrender-Monkeys. Many<BR>european countries produce some quite excellent cheeses, and monkeys are in<BR>general quite hygenic and well behaved. Associating these two groups with<BR>the French is frankly insulting, both to european dairy nations and hairy<BR>primates. Please stop.<BR><BR>Also,<BR>&gt; that was the Burbon&lt;sp&gt;<BR><BR>Bourbon.<BR><BR>Kings that financed the American <BR>&gt; Revolution, not the<BR>&gt; current 1,754th French Republic.&nbsp; We like the Kings of <BR>&gt; France, as they are<BR>&gt; usually not French.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>LOL. Remends me of a scene from Blackadder Goes Forth (WW1 trenches sitcom)<BR><BR>"I swear I'm as British as Queen Victoria!"<BR>"So your father was German, you're half German and you married a German?"<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:48:57 -0000<BR>From: "Ben Aaronovitch" &lt;bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Commie Atheist Films (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3417)<BR><BR>Adding further to the OT content, the favourite film amongst Cosmonauts at<BR>Baikonaur(sp) was 'Red Son of The Desert' a sort of Civil War (Russian that is)<BR>Western set in Mongolia (or something). It was traditional for the Cosmonauts to<BR>choose a film for the night before take off and they nearly always chose that.<BR>It was one of the first films to make it permenantly into space on Mir.<BR><BR>I've never seen it but I've heard its lots of steely eyed men, deserts, horses,<BR>revenge and minimal dialogue.<BR><BR>Slightly ObTrav: I came across this factoid when researching space 'culture' and<BR>traditions. Such as the offering bread and salt to crew as they arrived on Mir.<BR>I wonder if they will do that on the ISS?<BR><BR>Ben Aaronovitch<BR><BR>PS. My favourite Russian cosmonaut culture thing was the prelaunch piss.<BR>Allegedly the van carrying the cosmonauts stops half way to the launch pad and<BR>everyone gets out to water mother earth before leaving her.<BR><BR>'Let's be honest here - you paid for the women.'<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Bill Murrey - Scrooged<BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Cc: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 4:41 AM<BR>Subject: Commie Atheist Films (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3417)<BR><BR><BR>&gt; At 10:01 AM +1000 12/20/00, Alan Bradley wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;There is sillier headgear in an earlier Soviet film - Aelita, an SF film<BR>&gt; &gt;made around 1926.&nbsp; The oppressed Martian masses wear boxes on their heads!<BR>&gt; &gt;It's symbolic, of course, (the "boxes" are actually blinkers, like horses<BR>&gt; &gt;wear), but it still looks incredibly stupid.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Now hold on a damn second.&nbsp; That is *the* grandmother of all<BR>&gt; celluloid sci-fi style you're slagging there.&nbsp; And a freakin' great<BR>&gt; film, too.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;The main thing that would make it interesting to gamers is the battle<BR>&gt; &gt;scene.&nbsp; It's quite well done, despite the German knights wearing buckets on<BR>&gt; &gt;their heads.&nbsp; With the music, it raises the hair on the back on my neck.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;It is based on historical events.&nbsp; The battle was called "The Ice<BR>&gt; &gt;Slaughter" by contemporary chroniclers.&nbsp; It was fought on a frozen-over<BR>&gt; &gt;lake (Lake Peipus), was conspicuously bloody, and something happened at the<BR>&gt; &gt;end which happens in the film too, and I don't want to spoil it.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Probably many of you already know this, but I couldn't resist the<BR>&gt; temptation to a) show off and b) add to the OT content:&nbsp; the famous<BR>&gt; 'battle on the ice' scene was actually filmed in a particularly<BR>&gt; unpleasant salt flat somewhere around Alma-Ata, in mid-summer.&nbsp; With<BR>&gt; little to no logistical support; not even, I'm told, a water trailer.<BR>&gt; Which makes the sufferings of all those USC students in rubber suits<BR>&gt; working as extas for _Dune_ kinda pale in comparison.&nbsp; But hey, it<BR>&gt; was war.&nbsp; "They also serve who run around in heavy costume showing<BR>&gt; full profile".&nbsp; Etc.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:52:07 -0000<BR>From: "Ben Aaronovitch" &lt;bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR><BR>'Remember people we want wild uncontrolled bursts.'<BR><BR>Whoops, that's from Reaper Man.<BR><BR>Ben<BR><BR>'Let's be honest here - you paid for the women.'<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Bill Murrey - Scrooged<BR>- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>From: Frank G. Pitt &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 6:39 AM<BR>Subject: RE: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Kenji Schwarz wrote :<BR>&gt; &gt; Speaking of adapting Traveller to the most quotable sci-fi character<BR>&gt; &gt; of all time(*), does anyone have a valid design for a "sonic<BR>&gt; &gt; electronic ball-breaker" per USCM specs?<BR>&gt; &gt; Kenji<BR>&gt; &gt; (*)&nbsp; Waiting eagerly to be contradicted :)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; You won't be contradicted by me. I agree, and I think "Aliens" is one of the<BR>&gt; best, if not _the_ best Science Fiction movie around. It has all the right<BR>&gt; elements, and a maximum nunber of quotable quotes.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Frankie<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 10:12:53 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Noble vs. military rank<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Kenji Schwarz [mailto:schwarz@fas.harvard.edu]<BR>&gt; Sent: 20 December 2000 04:45<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Cc: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Noble vs. military rank<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; At 1:58 AM +0100 12/20/00, Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;IMTU the IN is very much influenced by the RN. I even have <BR>&gt; the equivalent of<BR>&gt; &gt;warrant officers (which is definitely non-canonical).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Could you tell me (us) what exactly warrant officers were/are/will <BR>&gt; be?&nbsp; I've never been clear on this at all.&nbsp; I'd be interested to hear <BR>&gt; about your adaptation.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Just watched the Aliens movies again and noticed that Ripley was <BR>&gt; originally described as a warrant officer, but after the middle of <BR>&gt; the second film was strictly "Lieutenant Ripley".&nbsp; Any explanations <BR>&gt; for that?&nbsp; (Not strictly Trav, I know.)<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>After 75 years of service to the Comapny you automatically get a promotion?<BR>:)<BR><BR>Seriously, I'd suggest that Ripley's rank aboard the Nostromo was separate<BR>from her courtesy rank with the marines...that she was given a courtesy rank<BR>as a civilian advisor. YMMV<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 10:18:12 -0000<BR>From: Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Legate Legion [mailto:legate@futureone.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 20 December 2000 00:50<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; From: Steven Hudson &lt;shudson@lightspeed.ca&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; But, without our support, the war would never have been <BR>&gt; won, Doug.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;Remember, in North Africa alone, the American did in 3 <BR>&gt; months to Romell's<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;Africa Korps what the Brits did in three years.&nbsp; They also <BR>&gt; turned the tide<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;of the Battle for North Africa.&nbsp; Without the US, D-Day <BR>&gt; would never have<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;happened, nor would the invasion of Italy.&nbsp; Yes, we fought <BR>&gt; along side<BR>&gt; them,<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;but Ike was the Overall CO, &amp; we supplied them with everything.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &lt;giggle&gt; Are you trying for "ignorance is bliss", "ignorance is<BR>&gt; &gt;strength", or both? In any case, you're _really_ over-doing it...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Why thank you, now you are finnally getting it.&nbsp; I am not <BR>&gt; Lennard, there<BR>&gt; is now way in hell I am this serious.&nbsp; But, I could pull out <BR>&gt; facts &amp; figures<BR>&gt; if I wanted to to prove my point &amp; you could pull out facts &amp; <BR>&gt; figures to<BR>&gt; prove your point.&nbsp; That is the great thing about history, it <BR>&gt; is at heart a<BR>&gt; Story, &amp; you people are forgetting that.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Look, it depends upon who's history you read, the <BR>&gt; Americans say that<BR>&gt; they won the war, the Brits say they won the War, the French <BR>&gt; say that France<BR>&gt; was never invaded &amp; they won the War, so do the Russians, the <BR>&gt; Germans, the<BR>&gt; Japanese, etc.&nbsp; Everyone who fought in WWII won the war <BR>&gt; themselves.&nbsp; It is<BR>&gt; one of the best &amp; worst documented pieces of history.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>I bid you farewell...<BR><BR>&lt;plonk&gt;<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 21:36:05 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR><BR>Phill Webb wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Timothy Little wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; So I'm looking for a system that help me determine (1), either from<BR>&gt; &gt; first principles or reverse-engineering from outcomes.&nbsp; Whether this<BR>&gt; &gt; is by random means or systematic, I don't care.&nbsp; But I want a system<BR>&gt; &gt; that deals in persistent causes rather than one-off effects.<BR><BR>&gt; I think that the system you are looking for is the gm, or maybe a<BR>&gt; honking big book of charts.<BR><BR>The whole point of a game system (in my opinion, of course) is to take<BR>most of the load off the GM, and reduce arbitrariness.&nbsp; A big part of<BR>this is a system that can provide a useful framework for<BR>extrapolation.<BR><BR>Leaving it all to the GM both increases the GM's workload and<BR>increases arbitrariness, while having a huge book of charts is also a<BR>large load (looking up the particular chart you need) and provides no<BR>consistent framework for extrapolation to other tasks.<BR><BR>But still, that might be why I can't convince anyone else that<BR>designing such a system is a worthwhile endeavour.&nbsp; I might of course<BR>ask why a person who prefers GM decision or huge charts uses any game<BR>mechanics at all, but that would be a little snide of me so I won't.&nbsp; :^P<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 03:55:22 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Those Damn French :) <BR><BR>From: Jones, Dean &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; No, back then they were just Cheese-Eating-Monkeys, not<BR>&gt;&gt; Cheese-Eating-Surrender-Monkeys.&nbsp; There is a difference you<BR>&gt;&gt; know.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I feel I should object to the term Cheese-Eating-Surrender-Monkeys. Many<BR>&gt;european countries produce some quite excellent cheeses, and monkeys are in<BR>&gt;general quite hygenic and well behaved. Associating these two groups with<BR>&gt;the French is frankly insulting, both to european dairy nations and hairy<BR>&gt;primates. Please stop.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Well, we know that the English produce some of the best cheese in the<BR>world.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; And, are these the same monkeys who use their own fecal matter as a<BR>throwing weapon in combat?<BR><BR>&gt; Also,<BR>&gt;&gt; that was the Burbon&lt;sp&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Bourbon.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Like the drink?<BR><BR>&gt; Kings that financed the American<BR>&gt;&gt; Revolution, not the<BR>&gt;&gt; current 1,754th French Republic.&nbsp; We like the Kings of<BR>&gt;&gt; France, as they are<BR>&gt;&gt; usually not French.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;LOL. Remends me of a scene from Blackadder Goes Forth (WW1 trenches sitcom)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;"I swear I'm as British as Queen Victoria!"<BR>&gt;"So your father was German, you're half German and you married a German?"<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Wasn't that in "General Hospital"?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:12:27 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Those Damn French :) <BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Well, we know that the English produce some of the best <BR>&gt; cheese in the<BR>&gt; world.<BR><BR>Red Leicester and Chedder are some of my hard favourite cheeses, but I was<BR>actually thinking of German Cambozola and the ever popular Italian Mozarrela<BR>and Feta. I feel however, that we should not over look the contribution of<BR>the US to the cheese industry, Processed ;)<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; And, are these the same monkeys who use their own fecal <BR>&gt; matter as a<BR>&gt; throwing weapon in combat?<BR><BR>Hmm, you have a point, monkeys do actually put up a fight if you attack them<BR>:)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Also,<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; that was the Burbon&lt;sp&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Bourbon.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Like the drink?<BR><BR>Yup. <BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Kings that financed the American<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Revolution, not the<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; current 1,754th French Republic.&nbsp; We like the Kings of<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; France, as they are<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; usually not French.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;LOL. Remends me of a scene from Blackadder Goes Forth (WW1 <BR>&gt; trenches sitcom)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;"I swear I'm as British as Queen Victoria!"<BR>&gt; &gt;"So your father was German, you're half German and you <BR>&gt; married a German?"<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Wasn't that in "General Hospital"?<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>It may have been. I don't think we get General Hospital. We do get Days of<BR>Our Lives and Sunset Beach. Many thanks for that. :&gt;<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3437<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Wednesday, December 20 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3438<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR>RE: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR>Re: Vilani Word list needed<BR>Re: Trans-Atlantic Invasion<BR>RE: Trans-Atlantic Invasion<BR>Re: Trans-Atlantic Invasion<BR>Re: true words<BR>RE: Noble vs. military rank<BR>Re: DUNE Messiah!<BR>RE: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3436<BR>Re: Those Damn French :) <BR>Maxim gun Quote<BR>RE: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting<BR>Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR>RE: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR>Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR>Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR>Re: DUNE Messiah!<BR>RE: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>RE: Noble vs. military rank<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 22:27:04 +1100<BR>From: Phill Webb &lt;pwebbtrav@yarranet.net.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR><BR>Timothy Little wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; But still, that might be why I can't convince anyone else that<BR>&gt; designing such a system is a worthwhile endeavour.&nbsp; I might of course<BR>&gt; ask why a person who prefers GM decision or huge charts uses any game<BR>&gt; mechanics at all, but that would be a little snide of me so I won't.&nbsp; :^P<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Is it not a GM decision to put the lock there in the first place?<BR><BR>GM interpretation of results is a little different from the GM flat out<BR>deciding from the beginning.<BR><BR>Charts was just an idea of how to have a reason for task results without<BR>GM decision.<BR><BR>I can't see how the task roll can tell you the reasons behind<BR>success/failure. What we need is an AI GM assistant to keep track off<BR>this stuff and remind us that the pc has successfully picked this type<BR>of lock before.<BR><BR>Have you made a beginning on the design of your system? I would be<BR>interested in seeing were it was headed.<BR><BR>Phill<BR>- -- <BR>Read my FudgeT Notes at http://www.yarranet.net.au/phill/fudge/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 00:32:29 +1300<BR>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR><BR>On 19 Dec 00, at 15:28, Matt Bond wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; &gt; From: Legate Legion [mailto:legate@futureone.com]<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; But, without our support, the war would never have been won, Doug.<BR>&gt; &gt; Remember, in North Africa alone, the American did in 3 months <BR>&gt; &gt; to Romell's<BR>&gt; &gt; Africa Korps what the Brits did in three years.&nbsp; <BR><BR>&gt; And If the British Eighth Army hadn't been holding Rommel at El Alamein,<BR>&gt; do you really think that Torch would still have been opposed by French<BR>&gt; forces with little (in general) desire to repel them. Kasserine showed<BR>&gt; how good the US troops in Africa *at that time* were. If their landings<BR>&gt; had been directly opposed by a Rommel not engaged in Egypt there would<BR>&gt; have been a bloody massacre.<BR><BR>The entire US war effort was an example of how to take first class <BR>manpower and first class equipment and produce a mediocre fighting force.<BR><BR>[snip]<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Yes, we fought along side them,<BR>&gt; &gt; but Ike was the Overall CO, &amp; we supplied them with everything.<BR><BR>&gt; As for the provision of supplies and equipment to the UK, don't forget<BR>&gt; that we were paying for them. Lend-lease wasn't free. And America was<BR>&gt; and is a trading nation, it had to sell it's goods somewhere.<BR><BR>Actually Lend-Lease *was* free, but anything remaining after the war had <BR>to be returned. It replaced the US "Cash and Carry" policy (while neutral <BR>from a legal standpoint, blatantly pro-allied since the Axis had no capacity <BR>to do the "Carry" part) when the UK ran out of cash in 41. However, Gen <BR>Marshall himself remarked that the cost of Lend-Lease was paid for more <BR>than twice over when the British gave the US the magnatron for free.<BR><BR>&gt; Finally, it is Americans like *you* Legate, who create the impression in<BR>&gt; the rest of the world that all Americans are loud-mouthed, brash, boors.<BR><BR>[snip]<BR><BR>I honestly think that LL just enjoys pushing peoples buttons. IMHO the <BR>best thing is just to ignore his rampant jingoistic outbursts and concentrate <BR>on the useful comments he makes. I figure if he doesn't get a rise out of <BR>people, he'll stop.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:35:20 +0000<BR>From: Rob Day &lt;Rob@glisten.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Vilani Word list needed<BR><BR>&gt;It was great stuff!&nbsp; I just need more time (even now) to digest it <BR>&gt;all and see what's missing, weed out some of the unneeded duplicates, <BR>&gt;that kind of thing.&nbsp; Honest, its unnaturalness wasn't a problem!<BR><BR>Ah! Happy days! Not much work to do, web access available and management<BR>who didn't much care what went on on a computer as long as you looked<BR>like you were busy. Did so much stuff on Vilani and the<BR>Prometheus/interstellar wars it was unbelievable, and now get almost<BR>zero time for Trav.<BR><BR>Misty eyed rememberences of days past, the list these days not like it<BR>used to be, young people not knowing they are born (bring back remote<BR>FTP for the archives!), etc, etc.<BR><BR>Yes, the current word list for Vilani needs some work to rationalise it,<BR>but one day, one day. Unnaturalness - so it is unnatural but that wasn't<BR>a problem? I remember you urging me to keep taking the drugs...<BR><BR>Today's Vilani word (remember this one?)-<BR><BR>english - chair<BR>vilani - irish<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR><BR>Rob.<BR>PS. Dammit, that's two posts now, I'm breaking my rule of just one post<BR>to the TML a year :o)<BR>PPS. My spell checker suggests changing 'trav' to 'trivia' - maybe it<BR>knows more than it's letting on?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 06:27:26 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Trans-Atlantic Invasion<BR><BR>Steven Hudson wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;From: Steve Charlton &lt;steve.charlton@ifsna.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Subject: Trans-Atlantic Invasion<BR>&gt; ...<BR>&gt; &gt;I read in an issue of Military History (or Military History Quarterly; all<BR>&gt; &gt;the names are far too similar!) that a plan was drawn up in late 1940 for a<BR>&gt; &gt;cross-atlantic invasion of Europe, in case the UK surrendered or was invaded.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;You have probably read about how seasick and weak some of the troops were<BR>&gt; &gt;after shipping to France from England on D-Day.&nbsp; Can you imagine how bad the<BR>&gt; &gt;troops would have been after a trans-Atlantic crossing?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; It wouldn't be _too_ bad - the Irish wouldn't have been able<BR>&gt; to put up too much effective resistance :|<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; I'm not sure which would be better - adding several years to the<BR>&gt; project by going through Suez/Morocco, or simply offering Franco<BR>&gt; the largest bribe in history?&nbsp; :&gt;<BR><BR>Portugal would probably have been cheaper to bribe (though not as<BR>convenient). ;-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 12:36:37 -0000<BR>From: Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Trans-Atlantic Invasion<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;You have probably read about how seasick and weak some of <BR>&gt; the troops were<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;after shipping to France from England on D-Day.&nbsp; Can you <BR>&gt; imagine how bad the<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;troops would have been after a trans-Atlantic crossing?<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; It wouldn't be _too_ bad - the Irish wouldn't have been able<BR>&gt; &gt; to put up too much effective resistance :|<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; I'm not sure which would be better - adding several years to the<BR>&gt; &gt; project by going through Suez/Morocco, or simply offering Franco<BR>&gt; &gt; the largest bribe in history?&nbsp; :&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Portugal would probably have been cheaper to bribe (though not as<BR>&gt; convenient). ;-)<BR><BR>Especially as you still need a major seaborne operation to get anywhere<BR>else, unless you intend to bring Spain in as a combatant on the Axis<BR>side...<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 01:54:26 +1300<BR>From: "Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Trans-Atlantic Invasion<BR><BR>On 19 Dec 2000, at 18:12, knightsky@juno.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Lots of interesting questions.&nbsp; And is military toilet paper still <BR>&gt; &gt; as rough<BR>&gt; &gt; in the 53rd centory as it is today?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Yep, and the K-Rats are still just as bad.<BR><BR>The toilet paper our field rations were issued with wasn't rough at all. It was <BR>nice and smooth, and utterly useless as toilet paper.<BR><BR>- --<BR>"Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR><BR>A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 08:02:01 -0500<BR>From: Eric Freitas &lt;efreitos@tampabay.rr.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: true words<BR><BR>On Monday 18 December 2000 11:59, you wrote:<BR>&gt; Doug Berry puts into the Ether:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;Well, culturally California is two states: NorCal and the Evil Hordes of<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;SoCal. We live in God's Own Land. They live in a blasted desert and try<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;to steal our water. We have the Giants, they have the Dodgers (spit.) All<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;of our state politics is a balancing act between these two cultural<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; groups (and some in the northern parts of the state don't even want to<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; claim the Bay Area!)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I have family in the LA &amp; SF areas.<BR>&gt; Doug has hit the nail squarely on the head.<BR><BR>That's true.&nbsp; I'm from Fort Bragg, in Mendocino county and a lot of people I <BR>know of 'us' as everyone north of Napa, and 'them' as everyone south of <BR>there, but if we had to take the bay area we would.&nbsp; The idea of splitting <BR>the state in two has been around at least since I was about twelve years old, <BR>(that would be around 1980).&nbsp; Of course, I've lived in Florida for the last <BR>8 years and have pretty much disowned the entire state now (he he).<BR>- -- <BR>Eric Freitas<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 02:14:43 +1300<BR>From: "Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Noble vs. military rank<BR><BR>On 20 Dec 2000, at 19:35, Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; These ranks relate to the ranks Sergeant Major and (I think) Regimental<BR>&gt; Sergeant Major in the Army,<BR><BR>For the past long while the NZ Army has offically only had WO1s and WO2s - not <BR>Sergeant Majors, as that is an appointment, not a rank. However a WO! is <BR>addressed as Sarn't Major, just as they were when they really were Sergeant <BR>Majors. A WO2 is addressed as 'Sir' and wears brown shoes with his dress <BR>uniform, like an officer and also has an officer's stable belt in those units <BR>where it is different from the enlisted ranks' belt, etc.<BR><BR>- --<BR>"Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR><BR>A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 07:19:42 -0600<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: DUNE Messiah!<BR><BR>&gt;I didn't want to stay up this late!&nbsp; But, I couldn't put the friggin'<BR>&gt;book down!<BR><BR>I did the same thing with Sword of Shannara a year or two ago. Great book, <BR>too, but it gets a little off-track at the end. Anyone here ever read it?<BR><BR>&gt;It's sooo much different than Dune.&nbsp; It seems like a different author<BR>&gt;wrote it.&nbsp; Tone's different.&nbsp; Style's different.&nbsp; Story's a lot<BR>&gt;different.<BR><BR>Sounds like every game in the Ultima series. Each was COMPLETELY different <BR>from the last.<BR><BR>Dang. Now I'll have to read it.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;But, I liked it so much because it was such an unexpected, fresh<BR>&gt;direction.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;It's not really a whole novel, IMO.&nbsp; It's more like the extended<BR>&gt;epilogue of Dune.&nbsp; "And, here's what happened later..."<BR><BR>Well, to compare again with a computer game: Episode IV of Ultimate DOOM.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>Administrator of the Milieu: 0 Aid Society<BR>http://members.nbci.com/cheebzero/trav_index.htm<BR>_________________________________________________________________<BR>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 06:13:34 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: RE: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising<BR><BR>&gt;From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>&gt;Subject: RE: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising<BR>...<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; At least everyone knew that _a_ state of mind was a bit too&nbsp; much<BR>&gt;&gt;to expect of Reagan :&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Be nice, Steven!&nbsp; We don't talk about your favorite uncles...or<BR>&gt;Prime Ministers that way.&nbsp; ;-p<BR><BR>&nbsp; Why not, we do? The funniest one was likely Mackenzie King (`35-48)...<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:17:32 -0500<BR>From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3436<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 22:05:39 -0800<BR>&gt;From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Fw: passport application<BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt;(if I don't get penguin boy's keyboard with this one I might as well hangup<BR>&gt;my g-string...)<BR><BR>*SPLORT*<BR>I think you got got more than just -his- keyboard.&nbsp; A few inches to he <BR>left, a few degrees clockwise, and you'd have been able to paint my Alpha <BR>server on the sde of your monitor....<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 07:22:45 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Those Damn French :) <BR><BR>From: Jones, Dean &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Well, we know that the English produce some of the best<BR>&gt;&gt; cheese in the<BR>&gt;&gt; world.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Red Leicester and Chedder are some of my hard favourite cheeses, but I was<BR>&gt;actually thinking of German Cambozola and the ever popular Italian<BR>Mozarrela<BR>&gt;and Feta. I feel however, that we should not over look the contribution of<BR>&gt;the US to the cheese industry, Processed ;)<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Oh, god right now I would kill &amp; I do mean kill for some good English<BR>Sharp White Chedder.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; And, are these the same monkeys who use their own fecal<BR>&gt;&gt; matter as a<BR>&gt;&gt; throwing weapon in combat?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Hmm, you have a point, monkeys do actually put up a fight if you attack<BR>them<BR>&gt;:)<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Yeah, but they have shit for weapons, much like the French, &amp; when you<BR>show them the right amount of force, they surrender.&nbsp; Plus, they love to eat<BR>cheese, thus "Cheese-Eating-Surrender-Monkeys" for the French.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Like the drink?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Yup.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; God, it must suck to have a name like that.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;LOL. Remends me of a scene from Blackadder Goes Forth (WW1<BR>&gt;&gt; trenches sitcom)<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;"I swear I'm as British as Queen Victoria!"<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;"So your father was German, you're half German and you<BR>&gt;&gt; married a German?"<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Wasn't that in "General Hospital"?<BR>&gt;It may have been. I don't think we get General Hospital. We do get Days of<BR>&gt;Our Lives and Sunset Beach. Many thanks for that. :&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; No, the ep, just before "Goodbyee".<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 06:59:43 -0800<BR>From: Tod Glenn &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Maxim gun Quote<BR><BR>Someone in the TED thread was trying to remember this quote, which i found<BR>in Goldsmith's "The Devils Paintbrush", the definitive history of the Maxim<BR>gun.<BR><BR>"Whatever happens we have got<BR>The Maxim gun and they have not<BR>We hanged and shot a few and then<BR>The rest became devoted men."<BR><BR>Hilaire Belloc, "The Modern Traveller"<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend"<BR>- -- <BR>Tod L Glenn<BR>webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.solsec.org<BR>http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>http://travellerguns.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 15:16:01 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: ADMIN! Gratuitous Baiting<BR><BR>&gt; Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Jonathan McDermott wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; I thought it Lemarchand's Configuration? =)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; It is (otherwise Hellraiser 4 makes no/less sense).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In the introduction by Clive Barker himself&nbsp; to&nbsp; "Clive&nbsp; Barker's<BR>&gt; Hellraiser"&nbsp; (Epic&nbsp; Comics,&nbsp; 1989)&nbsp; he&nbsp; refers&nbsp; to&nbsp; the&nbsp;&nbsp; "Lament<BR>&gt; Configuration".&nbsp; (The "Hellraise IV" movie was copyright 1996.)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; As I understand it the "Lament&nbsp; Configuration"&nbsp; is&nbsp; a&nbsp; *path*&nbsp; to<BR>&gt; opening the doorway to hell ... solving the Lemarchand puzzle box<BR>&gt; (or one of its clones) is just one of the Lament&nbsp; Configurations.<BR>&gt; The "Clive Barker's Hellraiser" comic (?) explored&nbsp; some&nbsp; of&nbsp; the<BR>&gt; others.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>OK. Didn't know that one.<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Fatal flaw with the plan...if the victim knows what that funny<BR>&gt; &gt; gold box is you have to rely on his boredom for it to have any<BR>&gt; &gt; effect :). Frankly, if I was immortal and regenerating I'd<BR>&gt; &gt; probably try to wait it out or try to escape. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I think you&nbsp; underestimate&nbsp; the&nbsp; effects&nbsp; of&nbsp; long-term&nbsp; boredom.<BR>&gt; After a few years even the strongest mind would rather&nbsp; open&nbsp; the<BR>&gt; box, knowing what it would mean.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Hmm, I suppose so. <BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 07:09:26<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR><BR>At 05:44 PM 12/19/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; *weg* = JOKE.&nbsp; Please keep that in mind.&nbsp; I am hardly ever serious, &amp;<BR>&gt;yet you people treat me as such.<BR><BR>Legate, your jokes are rarely funny.&nbsp; You seem to think that insulting<BR>people is humorous.&nbsp; It isn't.<BR><BR>*plonk*<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 07:16:05<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>At 09:20 AM 12/20/2000 -0000, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; At one point in my life, my only address was a post office <BR>&gt;&gt; box, and I paid my rent in cash.&nbsp; It was as close as I've ever come to <BR>&gt;&gt; completely dropping off the state's radar.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Wasn't living in a post office box horribly cramped? :)<BR><BR>Naw.. but the '73 Datsun station wagon I was living in for the most part<BR>was.&nbsp; This was during my hardcore deadhead days, and I spent the majority<BR>of my time on the road at various shows or conventions.<BR><BR>Ah.. that car.. the infamous Yellow Peril.&nbsp; Held together by the bumper<BR>stickers, and for some reason it had a Toyata truck engine installed.&nbsp; Ever<BR>see the look on a Porche driver's face when he's blown out by a puke-yellow<BR>miniwagon?<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:23:29 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR><BR>Timothy Little wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Timothy Little wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Almost always, the mechanic reflects one-off task performance and<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; doesn't have anything to do with persistent in-game influences.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; I'm currently looking for a system that can support persistence.<BR><BR>(snip)<BR><BR><BR>&gt; In practice, in my games, I have observed 3 important categories of<BR>&gt; features of a task.&nbsp; I've listed them in their order of importance as<BR>&gt; I saw them in the course of the games:<BR><BR>(snip again philosophical guidelines for game mechanics)<BR><BR><BR>So, my questions to you are...<BR><BR>How do you handle this in your games?<BR><BR>Have you seen a set of game mechanics in another game that you liked and thought<BR>came close to what you are looking for?<BR><BR><BR>My initial thought is...<BR><BR>On the surface, it seems to me, that all you need is an independent "mood" modifier<BR>(for lack of a better term right at this moment).&nbsp; A "mood" modifier would reflect<BR>the "conditions of the cosmos" at that moment.<BR><BR>Using your lock picking example,&nbsp; you said that all lock pick checks in the would<BR>be effected by:<BR><BR><BR>&gt; 2) The character is familiar with this system, and knows how to apply<BR>&gt; her knowledge to reliably disarm the lock.&nbsp; The roll represents the<BR>&gt; chance that this lock is one she's familiar with.<BR>&gt;<BR>So, that seems like an easy enough basis in which to base your "mood" modifier for<BR>this building.&nbsp; In this case, I'd give the character a positive modifier to any<BR>roll in which she is dealing with these locks in the building.<BR><BR>The "mood" modifier may change if she runs across another lock in the building of a<BR>different type or different construction--and, to individualize it, you'll have to<BR>keep track of "mood" modifiers for specific types of rolls for each character in<BR>the group (too much for a GM to do, in my opinion--he's got enough to handle<BR>already).&nbsp; And, if you want to be consistent, applying "mood" modifiers to NPCs and<BR>their rolls could be a mind-boggler.<BR><BR>But, if you want them...(just off the top of my head), you could have "mood"<BR>modifiers for things like..<BR><BR>...Piter woke up on the bad side of the bed this morning, he gets -2 to all his<BR>rolls today.<BR><BR>...Brenda is familiar with this specific type of lock.&nbsp; She gets +2 when dealing<BR>with that lock.<BR><BR>...A group of Zhodani commandos are trying to tap into the mainframe of the<BR>building the PCs are in.&nbsp; The PCs don't know this, but their splice on the<BR>building's power is making the voltage spike.&nbsp; Whenever the PCs try to use anything<BR>connected to the building's power supply (ie--computer terminal), apply a -1 to<BR>their rolls to reflect the power spike slowing and crashing systems.<BR><BR><BR>My point is, you're talking about some "factor" that effects similar rolls for a<BR>given period of time during the game.&nbsp; It seems easy to me to just figure what<BR>effect that factor has on a PC's roll, and use that modifier consistently on<BR>similar types of rolls until the "mood" changes.<BR><BR>You, as the GM, set the "mood", by reading the players....your own<BR>estimation...whatever.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:24:55 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR><BR>Phill Webb wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; So if they picked the first lock in a complex and all the locks were<BR>&gt; similar I would either allow automatic success from that point on or<BR>&gt; give a +DM for familiarity.<BR><BR>Basically what I just said...using a lot less key strokes!<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:31:52 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR><BR>Timothy Little wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; The whole point of a game system (in my opinion, of course) is to take<BR>&gt; most of the load off the GM, and reduce arbitrariness.&nbsp; A big part of<BR>&gt; this is a system that can provide a useful framework for<BR>&gt; extrapolation.<BR><BR>But in designing a game system, the future can't be predicted!&nbsp; Since it is<BR>impossible to figure what "outside factors" will effect your PCs on the day you are<BR>playing, game mechanics have to be designed to give you an average "range of<BR>outcomes".<BR><BR>I think most GMs look down at the dice, see a high number or a Spectacular Success<BR>or (in the case of KB3) a Greater Success, and say, "Hey!&nbsp; You aced that roll!&nbsp; I<BR>guess your character is in top form today!"<BR><BR>I think most of us try to fit reality around the outcome of a result--if you rolled<BR>good, then factors were in your favor (or you were just plain lucky that one<BR>time).&nbsp; If you rolled bad, then conditions must be against you that day.<BR><BR>It seems what you are trying to do is work the other way around--figure what the<BR>conditions are that effect the PC, then apply that to the PC's roll, skewing the<BR>results toward the effect of the PC's condition.<BR><BR>Which is why I suggested you use a "mood" modifer in the other post.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:36:54 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: DUNE Messiah!<BR><BR>James Jensen wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I did the same thing with Sword of Shannara a year or two ago. Great book,<BR>&gt; too, but it gets a little off-track at the end. Anyone here ever read it?<BR><BR>Yes!&nbsp; I read it in high school many years ago.&nbsp; Couldn't put that one down<BR>either.&nbsp; Great friggin' book, and I don't think I've ever seen large battles<BR>written so engagingly before.<BR><BR>I don't know why, but I tried book 2 (Elfstones, I think), couldn't get into<BR>it, and never picked up another Shannara.<BR><BR>Although, I'll admit, about six months ago, when I was reading the heck out of<BR>Conan, I considered revisiting Shannara and its sequels.<BR><BR>I may still do that at some point.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Dang. Now I'll have to read it.<BR><BR>I really liked you--but you may not.&nbsp; I've noticed at a lot of people did not<BR>get into Messiah the way I did.&nbsp; I guess I'm lucky I liked it so much!<BR><BR>Kenneth<BR>....who is starting Children of Dune tonight...<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 10:43:18 -0500<BR>From: "Chris Seamans" &lt;semo@pil.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>Dean wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;While it's true that medical care is quite excellent in the US, whats the<BR>&gt;situation with providing care for people without medical insurance?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; They have to cough up the dough, it's as simple as that.<BR><BR>&gt;Certainly with the National Health Service here in the UK everyone is (in<BR>&gt;theory anyway) guaranteed medical care I was not aware this was also the<BR>&gt;case in the US. Oh, and what the heck is an HMO?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; An HMO is a "Health Maintenance Organization", basically a corporation<BR>which offers health insurance and medical care. Each member in such an<BR>organization pays a fixed sum, and then they are entitled access to the<BR>doctors and facilities which are contracted through (or in some cases owned<BR>by) the HMO.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:05:35 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Noble vs. military rank<BR><BR>At 7:35 PM +1300 12/20/00, Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Could you tell me (us) what exactly warrant officers were/are/will<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; be?&nbsp; I've never been clear on this at all.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;A Warrant Officer is someone who holds a Warrant from the Crown, rather than<BR>&gt;a Commission<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;They are effectively the top level of the NCO (Non-Commissioned Officer)<BR>&gt;ranks<BR>&gt;There are two Warrant ranks.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;These ranks relate to the ranks Sergeant Major and (I think) Regimental<BR>&gt;Sergeant Major in the Army, Petty Officer &amp; Chief Petty Officer in the Navy,<BR>&gt;and just Warrant Officer One&nbsp; and Warrant Officer Two in the Airforce.<BR><BR>So... they're just different names and types of paper for the top <BR>layer of NCOs?&nbsp; Is that all?*<BR><BR>&gt;In the second film she was given an "honorary" military rank to allow her to<BR>&gt;work with the Colonial Marines on the Sularco, a common practice when<BR>&gt;civilian advisors are attached to military commands.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;The Warrant Officer rank was the rank she held on the _merchant_ ship the<BR>&gt;Nostromo, and the rank by which the Company referred to her at the beginning<BR>&gt;of the movie.<BR><BR>Okay, that makes sense... but why did the honorary rank "stick" in <BR>the 3rd and especially 4th films, even after she left the <BR>Sulaco/Marines?&nbsp; Just a lapse in continuity?<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR><BR>* Kenji asks, knowing that blase', dismissive comments about military <BR>traditions are the best way to get excruciatingly detailed historical <BR>essays posted to the web, with flamewars to follow.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3438<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-ye03.mx.aol.com (rly-ye03.mail.aol.com [172.18.151.200]) by air-ye02.mail.aol.com (v77.14) with ESMTP; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:07:02 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-ye03.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:06:38 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id LAA23512;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:05:00 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:04:47 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id LAA23472<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:04:47 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:04:47 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012201604.LAA23472@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3438<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD>12/20/00 10:45:03 AM Pacific Standard Time</TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Wednesday, December 20 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3439<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>RE: Noble vs. military rank<BR>MREs again?!?&nbsp; Awww, Mom!!!<BR>Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising<BR>Re: DUNE Messiah! &amp; Other Books<BR>Shannara (was Re: DUNE Messiah!)<BR>Warrant Officers<BR>Re: true words<BR>Re: true words<BR>Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3436<BR>Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR>Re: Seas of LOX<BR>Task persistence (was Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks)<BR>RE: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>RE: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 16:06:53 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Noble vs. military rank<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Kenji Schwarz [mailto:schwarz@fas.harvard.edu]<BR>&gt; Sent: 20 December 2000 16:06<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Cc: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Noble vs. military rank<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; At 7:35 PM +1300 12/20/00, Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &gt; Could you tell me (us) what exactly warrant officers <BR>&gt; were/are/will<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; be?&nbsp; I've never been clear on this at all.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;A Warrant Officer is someone who holds a Warrant from the <BR>&gt; Crown, rather than<BR>&gt; &gt;a Commission<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;They are effectively the top level of the NCO <BR>&gt; (Non-Commissioned Officer)<BR>&gt; &gt;ranks<BR>&gt; &gt;There are two Warrant ranks.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;These ranks relate to the ranks Sergeant Major and (I think) <BR>&gt; Regimental<BR>&gt; &gt;Sergeant Major in the Army, Petty Officer &amp; Chief Petty <BR>&gt; Officer in the Navy,<BR>&gt; &gt;and just Warrant Officer One&nbsp; and Warrant Officer Two in the <BR>&gt; Airforce.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; So... they're just different names and types of paper for the top <BR>&gt; layer of NCOs?&nbsp; Is that all?*<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;In the second film she was given an "honorary" military rank <BR>&gt; to allow her to<BR>&gt; &gt;work with the Colonial Marines on the Sularco, a common practice when<BR>&gt; &gt;civilian advisors are attached to military commands.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;The Warrant Officer rank was the rank she held on the <BR>&gt; _merchant_ ship the<BR>&gt; &gt;Nostromo, and the rank by which the Company referred to her <BR>&gt; at the beginning<BR>&gt; &gt;of the movie.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Okay, that makes sense... but why did the honorary rank "stick" in <BR>&gt; the 3rd and especially 4th films, even after she left the <BR>&gt; Sulaco/Marines?&nbsp; Just a lapse in continuity?<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Poor record keeping? Perhaps Ripley was trying to seem tougher than she was<BR>in Alien3...she did land in a men's prison. Claiming to be a Marine<BR>Lietenant would do that. Resurrection? Well, the honorary rank is the least<BR>of *that* films problems :). Winona was cute, though.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:09:09 -0700<BR>From: Steve Charlton &lt;steve.charlton@ifsna.com&gt;<BR>Subject: MREs again?!?&nbsp; Awww, Mom!!!<BR><BR>This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand<BR>this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.<BR><BR>- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C06A9F.2F928650<BR>Content-Type: text/plain;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR><BR>Indivdually, I was not really bothered by most of the MRE 'flavors' (though<BR>there were a few that were just plain nasty).&nbsp; THe issue becomes dealing<BR>with 2 to 4 MREs each day for a two week field exercise.&nbsp; It quite literally<BR>got to the point that the very sight of that stuff would generate a violent<BR>gagging reaction.<BR><BR>I know that in the past several years the military has drastically expanded<BR>the selection availble for MREs, so that would have to be an improvement.<BR><BR>Now - in the Imperium, with all the different cultural groups, incompatible<BR>intestinal flora and differing metabolisms, just IMAGINE the logistical<BR>madness that could happen.&nbsp; This is why, IMTU, I have regional/ethnic/racial<BR>units to keep the troops capable of eating similar foods.<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) said:<BR><BR>&gt; Neither C-rats/K-rats nor MREs are *nearly* as bad as some folks claim<BR>&gt; they are. Then again, they never had the "pleasure" of eating what a<BR>&gt; few guys in my patrol in Boy Scouts produced when they tried to cook<BR>&gt; (hint, after two attempts, we altered the chore rotation so that these<BR>&gt; two guys were *never* any closer to the food than acting as "gopher"<BR>&gt; for whoever was cooking)<BR><BR>- - -- <BR><BR>- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C06A9F.2F928650<BR>Content-Type: text/html;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable<BR><BR>&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;HEAD&gt;<BR>&lt;META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =<BR>charset=3Diso-8859-1"&gt;<BR>&lt;META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =<BR>5.5.2653.12"&gt;<BR>&lt;TITLE&gt;MREs again?!?&nbsp; Awww, Mom!!!&lt;/TITLE&gt;<BR>&lt;/HEAD&gt;<BR><BR><BR>
<P><FONT size=3>Indivdually, I was not really bothered by most of the =<BR>MRE 'flavors' (though there were a few that were just plain =<BR>nasty).&amp;nbsp; THe issue becomes dealing with 2 to 4 MREs each day for a =<BR>two week field exercise.&amp;nbsp; It quite literally got to the point that =<BR>the very sight of that stuff would generate a violent gagging =<BR>reaction.</FONT></P><BR><BR>
<P><FONT size=3>I know that in the past several years the military =<BR>has drastically expanded the selection availble for MREs, so that would =<BR>have to be an improvement.</FONT></P><BR><BR>
<P><FONT size=3>Now - in the Imperium, with all the different =<BR>cultural groups, incompatible intestinal flora and differing =<BR>metabolisms, just IMAGINE the logistical madness that could =<BR>happen.&amp;nbsp; This is why, IMTU, I have regional/ethnic/racial units to =<BR>keep the troops capable of eating similar foods.</FONT></P><BR><BR>
<P><FONT size=3>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) said:</FONT><BR></P><BR><BR>
<P><FONT size=3>&amp;gt; Neither C-rats/K-rats nor MREs are *nearly* as =<BR>bad as some folks claim</FONT><BR><BR><FONT size=3>&amp;gt; they are. Then again, they never had the =<BR>&amp;quot;pleasure&amp;quot; of eating what a</FONT><BR><BR><FONT size=3>&amp;gt; few guys in my patrol in Boy Scouts produced =<BR>when they tried to cook</FONT><BR><BR><FONT size=3>&amp;gt; (hint, after two attempts, we altered the chore =<BR>rotation so that these</FONT><BR><BR><FONT size=3>&amp;gt; two guys were *never* any closer to the food =<BR>than acting as &amp;quot;gopher&amp;quot;</FONT><BR><BR><FONT size=3>&amp;gt; for whoever was cooking)</FONT><BR></P><BR><BR>
<P><FONT size=3>- -- </FONT><BR></P><BR><BR><BR><BR>- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C06A9F.2F928650--<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:25:07 -0500<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising<BR><BR>shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson) puts into the Ether:<BR>&gt; &gt;on their front page. He did however, get us out of Vietnam!!!!<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; ObTrav: by 1105, how much of a backwater does a place have to be<BR>&gt;before the locals start trusting the Impies? :&gt;<BR><BR>This brings the "Cargo Cult" concept to mind.<BR><BR>I'm sure that some Impie&nbsp; bcrat has written several volumes of rules &amp; regs <BR>on why the Imperial Military (including IISS) is required to discourage the <BR>formation of such cults.<BR><BR>I'm also sure that the formation of such cults is SOP in the IISS &amp; IN <BR>operating at the fringes of explored space.<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>Born to be Wild. Sentenced to Sedation<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 10:54:24 -0600<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: DUNE Messiah! &amp; Other Books<BR><BR>&gt;James Jensen wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; I did the same thing with Sword of Shannara a year or two ago. Great <BR>&gt;book,<BR>&gt; &gt; too, but it gets a little off-track at the end. Anyone here ever read <BR>&gt;it?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Yes!&nbsp; I read it in high school many years ago.&nbsp; Couldn't put that one down<BR>&gt;either.&nbsp; Great friggin' book, and I don't think I've ever seen large <BR>&gt;battles<BR>&gt;written so engagingly before.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>In retrospect, the parts about the battle were pretty good, but I didn't <BR>really like them at the time. They seemed like an annoying sidetrack when <BR>all I wanted to know was whether or not the hero (I can't remember his name <BR>at the moment) finds the sword.<BR><BR>&gt;I don't know why, but I tried book 2 (Elfstones, I think), couldn't get <BR>&gt;into<BR>&gt;it, and never picked up another Shannara.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Although, I'll admit, about six months ago, when I was reading the heck out <BR>&gt;of<BR>&gt;Conan, I considered revisiting Shannara and its sequels.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I may still do that at some point.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Now you're starting to scare me :).<BR><BR>I never got past chapter 10 of Elfstones. Maybe 'cuz it starts out too <BR>utopian and just lacks the gritty medieval atmosphere I'm used to.<BR><BR>Next question: Have you read "The Soulforge" by Margaret Weiss?<BR><BR>Or, my fav fantasy book, "The Brother's War"? That's the only full-sized <BR>novel that I'd ever finished reading by the day after I had bought it. Can't <BR>say too much for its sequel, "Planeswalker", though.<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Dang. Now I'll have to read it.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I really liked you--but you may not.&nbsp; I've noticed at a lot of people did <BR>&gt;not<BR>&gt;get into Messiah the way I did.&nbsp; I guess I'm lucky I liked it so much!<BR><BR>I'll give it a try. If for no other reason than to read them all in order.<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Kenneth<BR>&gt;....who is starting Children of Dune tonight...<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Now _there's_ a book I'd like to read.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>Administrator of the Milieu: 0 Aid Society<BR>http://members.nbci.com/cheebzero/trav_index.htm<BR>_________________________________________________________________<BR>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 12:03:06 EST<BR>From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>Subject: Shannara (was Re: DUNE Messiah!)<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt; types:<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;James Jensen wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; I did the same thing with Sword of Shannara a year or two ago. Great book,<BR>&gt;&gt; too, but it gets a little off-track at the end. Anyone here ever read it?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Yes!&nbsp; I read it in high school many years ago.&nbsp; Couldn't put that one down<BR>&gt;either.&nbsp; Great friggin' book, and I don't think I've ever seen large battles<BR>&gt;written so engagingly before.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I don't know why, but I tried book 2 (Elfstones, I think), couldn't get into<BR>&gt;it, and never picked up another Shannara.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Largely because the man can't write his own stuff. "Sword" is Lord of the <BR>Rings with the serial numbers filed off. I actually got through #2, then gave <BR>up halfway through #3 because he started breaking every rule of good writing <BR>except the ones about spelling...<BR><BR>GC<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:05:08 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: AuricTech Shipyards &lt;aurictech@esweeet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Warrant Officers<BR><BR>Note that warrant officers in the US military, unlike those in previously-mentioned militaries, are _not_ senior NCOs.&nbsp; Rather, they generally are "subject matter experts" (SMEs) in some technical field [1].&nbsp; Most warrant officers in the US Army (other than aviation warrants) are former NCOs who chose to become warrant officers for career reasons, such as:<BR><BR>1.&nbsp; Better pay and privileges.&nbsp; Although warrant officers are junior to commissioned officers (such as lieutenants, captains, MAJ Thrash, etc.), they are treated as officers in many ways (e.g., enlisted SMs and NCOs salute warrant officers and address them as "sir" or "ma'am" [as appropriate]).&nbsp; They also are paid much better than NCOs of similar time in service.<BR><BR>2.&nbsp; Opportunities to continue using their technical skills.&nbsp; As an NCO moves up through the ranks, he/she eventually is promoted out of the primary functions of his/her Military Occupational Specialty (MOS), and into primarily administrative positions (platoon sergeant, first sergeant, etc.).&nbsp; One way to avoid this (while still enjoying career advancement) is to become a warrant officer.<BR><BR>Note that warrant officers rarely hold command positions (although the detachment that my National Guard unit is sending to Bosnia [2] is commanded by a Chief Warrant Officer 2).<BR><BR>For further information on US Army warrant officers, see:<BR><BR>http://www.usarec.army.mil/hq/warrant/index.htm<BR><BR>[1]&nbsp; Examples include medical personnel (physician's assistants), military intelligence personnel (HUMINT techs), and peng^h^h^h^h electronic systems techs.<BR><BR>[2]&nbsp; My presence in this detachment (as detachment NCO) explains why I will not be at BayCon this year.<BR><BR>==<BR>AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/colverber/travler.html<BR><BR>_____________________________________________________________<BR>Free eSweeet Mail - http://www.esweeet.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:11:08 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: true words<BR><BR>Eric Freitas writes:<BR><BR>&gt; That's true.&nbsp; I'm from Fort Bragg, in Mendocino county and a lot of people<BR>&gt; I&nbsp; know of 'us' as everyone north of Napa, and 'them' as everyone south of<BR>&gt;&nbsp; there, but if we had to take the bay area we would.&nbsp; The idea of splitting <BR>&gt; the state in two has been around at least since I was about twelve years<BR>&gt; old,&nbsp;&nbsp; (that would be around 1980).&nbsp; Of course, I've lived in Florida for<BR>&gt; the last&nbsp; 8 years and have pretty much disowned the entire state now (he<BR>&gt; he). -- <BR><BR>The idea of splitting the state in two has many proponents, and is politically<BR>doomed because there's no way of doing it which doesn't leave most of the <BR>natural resources in one part and most of the people in another part.<BR><BR>While people from the bay area like to talk about the north/south divide, it<BR>isn't as true as people think; the east/west divide (generally conservative/<BR>liberal) is probably more severe, if less significant since the eastern part<BR>is sufficiently underpopulated that it can and is generally ignored.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:25:43 -0600<BR>From: "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" &lt;sdaniels@playnet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: true words<BR><BR>There is increasing pressure to split some of the<BR>intangible parts of California, particularly, the<BR>US Federal 9th Circuit Court of Appeals.<BR><BR>Currently it covers California, Oregon, Washington,<BR>Arizona, Montana, Idaho, Nevada, Alaska, Hawaii,<BR>Guam and the Northern Mariana Islands.<BR><BR>The amount of work it has to do just to deal with<BR>California is so great that some are advocating not<BR>only that California have it's own federal circuit,<BR>but that it have two!<BR><BR>IIRC, there is also a growing amount of pressure<BR>to create new state appellate districts by splitting<BR>existing ones.<BR><BR>So, while I doubt any formal separation of California<BR>into two states, some administrative bifurcation seems<BR>to be at least a strong possibility in the future.<BR><BR>bloo<BR><BR><BR>Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; The idea of splitting the state in two has many proponents, and is politically<BR>&gt; doomed because there's no way of doing it which doesn't leave most of the<BR>&gt; natural resources in one part and most of the people in another part.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; While people from the bay area like to talk about the north/south divide, it<BR>&gt; isn't as true as people think; the east/west divide (generally conservative/<BR>&gt; liberal) is probably more severe, if less significant since the eastern part<BR>&gt; is sufficiently underpopulated that it can and is generally ignored.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:29:36 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR><BR>On Tue, 19 Dec 2000, Legate Legion wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Look, it depends upon who's history you read, the Americans say that<BR>&gt; they won the war, the Brits say they won the War, the French say that France<BR>&gt; was never invaded &amp; they won the War, so do the Russians, the Germans, the<BR>&gt; Japanese, etc.&nbsp; Everyone who fought in WWII won the war themselves.&nbsp; It is<BR>&gt; one of the best &amp; worst documented pieces of history.<BR><BR>I have *NEVER* met a Japanese person who claims that Japan won WWII.<BR>Never ever ever.&nbsp;&nbsp; And I doubt I ever will.&nbsp; There was this matter of a<BR>couple nuclear weapons...?<BR><BR>I have met a few old Japanese guys who thought Japan *should* have won<BR>WWII.&nbsp; Invariably they are nationalistic old farts who did not get the<BR>chance to go and fight themselves, either because they were way too young<BR>to lie their way into the army or because they had something wrong with<BR>them.&nbsp; I have also met a few young Japanese guys who think Japan should<BR>have won WWII, and they are scarreee boys who are delusionally<BR>militaristic and usually don't talk to the likes of me, thank goodness.<BR><BR>But I have never met anyone disconnected from reality sufficiently to<BR>believe or to say that Japan won WWII.<BR><BR>Of course, I am not in the habit of ending up in the mental ward when I<BR>visit other countries, so perhaps I am meeting different people from you,<BR>Legate.&nbsp; &lt;weg&gt;&nbsp; <BR><BR>The worst thing *I've* ever done in Japan was participate in the<BR>undressing of our buddy Miyoshi on a street in Shinjuku at 2 AM, but we<BR>were all drunk and he was helping us.&nbsp; (Miyoshi standing up in the middle<BR>of the street singing enka with his pants around his ankles definitely<BR>cost me a few of my remaining Sanity Points...)<BR><BR>Kiri&nbsp; ^_^<BR><BR>******************************************************************************<BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 93!&nbsp; Thou Art God<BR>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR><BR>"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>Desire is embraced in a dream..."&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- X-JAPAN<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:37:52 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3436<BR><BR>On Wed, 20 Dec 2000, Jonathan McDermott wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 22:05:39 -0800<BR>&gt; &gt;From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Subject: Fw: passport application<BR>&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;(if I don't get penguin boy's keyboard with this one I might as well hangup<BR>&gt; &gt;my g-string...)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; *SPLORT*<BR>&gt; I think you got got more than just -his- keyboard.&nbsp; A few inches to he <BR>&gt; left, a few degrees clockwise, and you'd have been able to paint my Alpha <BR>&gt; server on the sde of your monitor....<BR>&gt; <BR>LOL, but this is referring to an actual event that took place at Doug's<BR>house.<BR><BR>kirichan yori&nbsp; ^_^<BR><BR>******************************************************************************<BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 93!&nbsp; Thou Art God<BR>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR><BR>"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>Desire is embraced in a dream..."&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- X-JAPAN<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:51:54 -0800<BR>From: Gordon Horne &lt;gordon.horne@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Look, it depends upon who's history you read, the Americans say that<BR>&gt;they won the war, the Brits say they won the War, the French say that France<BR>&gt;was never invaded &amp; they won the War, so do the Russians, the Germans, the<BR>&gt;Japanese, etc.&nbsp; Everyone who fought in WWII won the war themselves.&nbsp; It is<BR>&gt;one of the best &amp; worst documented pieces of history.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>An interesting point is that everyone is right. For any of the allies <BR>you can find a critical battle or campaign that was won largely by <BR>the efforts of one ally. Even the little guys like Australia and <BR>Canada.<BR><BR>ObTrav: There must be incidents in canon history, perhaps untold, in <BR>which the day was won by a relatively small and neglected polity - <BR>Vega, for example. Is the Imperium grateful? Or in cases where a <BR>minor enemy leads a critical defeat, is the Imperium vengeful?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 19:17:18 +0000<BR>From: Martin Hardgrave &lt;martin@deira.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Seas of LOX<BR><BR>In message &lt;000d01c06898$987201e0$f81d0118@spokn1.wa.home.com&gt;, tsykoduk<BR>&lt;tsykoduk@bigfoot.com&gt; writes<BR>&gt;Ok... What kinds of really really cold liquids would we see on a rouge<BR>&gt;planet?<BR><BR>red ones?<BR><BR>(bound to be too late with that one)<BR>- -- <BR>Martin Hardgrave<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 12:35:03 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Task persistence (was Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks)<BR><BR>On 12/20/00 at 08:31 PM,&nbsp; Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; I don't follow you.&nbsp; Can you explain using examples?<BR><BR>I didn't either, but I figured you'd ask.&nbsp; &lt;g&gt; Now, I really<BR>shouldn't get into this, I have *so* much work to do...but...I can't<BR>help myself! &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;OK, but there's a bit of history behind it and I've never convinced<BR>&gt;anyone that it is even worth worrying about.<BR><BR>&gt;It has to do with what success and failure represent in the game<BR>&gt;world.&nbsp; Bad start, I know, talking about roleplaying game system<BR>&gt;philosophy.&nbsp; But I started thinking about it anyway.<BR><BR>&gt;Let's take a lockpicking example.&nbsp; Suppose the character succeeds<BR>&gt;in unlocking it without setting off any alarms.&nbsp; Here comes the<BR>&gt;next bad thought...&nbsp; Why?&nbsp; What does the roll represent?<BR><BR>&gt;1) The character got lucky this one time.&nbsp; The roll represents a<BR>&gt;favourable set of one-off lucky breaks that she can take advantage<BR>&gt;of given her skill level (or lack thereof).<BR><BR>&gt;2) The character is familiar with this system, and knows how to<BR>&gt;apply her knowledge to reliably disarm the lock.&nbsp; The roll<BR>&gt;represents the chance that this lock is one she's familiar with.<BR><BR>&gt;3) The character is able to figure out (or make a good guess) how<BR>&gt;to disarm it, whether or not she's seen it before.&nbsp; The roll<BR>&gt;represents the chance that she can figure it out.<BR><BR>&gt;4) There is a fault with this lock that means it never really<BR>&gt;worked right anyway and almost anyone could have done it.&nbsp; The roll<BR>&gt;represents the chance of coming across a poorly-maintained or<BR>&gt;temporarily dysfunctional lock.<BR><BR>&gt;...<BR><BR>&gt;10) Any combination of the above.<BR><BR>&gt;Every possibility has its own set of consequences.&nbsp; For example,<BR>&gt;suppose the true situation is (2).&nbsp; Since similar locks tend to be<BR>&gt;used throughout a building, future attempts to pick locks in this<BR>&gt;building should be near-certain.&nbsp; Likewise with (3).&nbsp; <BR><BR>No, I disagree.&nbsp; The PC should have an easier time disarming locks<BR>in these two cases, and that can be represented by reducing the<BR>difficulty level.&nbsp; To use adjectives rather than numbers, say from<BR>Average to Routine or Easy.&nbsp; The task still has a random element,<BR>the PC could still slip up and fail, but the odds are better she will<BR>succeed.<BR><BR>&gt;Not with (1) or (4).&nbsp; <BR><BR>Agreed.<BR><BR>&gt;Now, most task system apply tasks in isolation.&nbsp; Effectively, this<BR>&gt;means that the only thing that a dice roll means in such systems,<BR>&gt;is (1) -- one-off, temporary random chance.<BR><BR>But that doesn't *have* to be the case. Take the MT situation...<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; ****************<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>Ref:&nbsp; "Okay, you've come to a door, and it looks like the only way<BR>forward is through it. When you check you find it is locked.<BR><BR>Player:&nbsp; "Sally has Lockpick-2, she'll examine the lock.&nbsp; Does she<BR>recognize it?"<BR><BR>Ref decides this is a Routine task of skill and intellegence.<BR><BR>Ref: "Roll me a Lockpicking plus Intellegence task."<BR><BR>Player:&nbsp; "Okay...&lt;rattle&gt;...rolled 8 plus 2 plus 2, that's 12.&nbsp; Does<BR>she recognize it?"<BR><BR>Ref:&nbsp; "Yes, It's a Ling Standard 412.&nbsp; Sally has worked on these<BR>before, but not recently.&nbsp; It's going to be a little harder than<BR>normal for Sally to pick it. Is she going to try?"<BR><BR>Player: "Yeah, but she'll be careful and take more time."<BR><BR>Ref decides this is a Formidable task of skill and dexterity, but<BR>taking the extra time drops it to a Difficult task.<BR><BR>Player:&nbsp; "&lt;rattle&gt;...I'm rolling aginst Lockpick plus Dexterity,<BR>right? Um...11 plus 2 plus 1, I rolled 14, does that do it?"<BR><BR>Ref:&nbsp; "Right and yes, but you needed that extra time.&nbsp; You think you<BR>can do better on the next LS 412 now that you've had a little<BR>practice."<BR><BR>&nbsp; . . . .&nbsp; Later that night . . . .<BR>&nbsp; <BR>Ref: "Here's another locked door, LS 412 lock again."<BR><BR>Ref decides that now LS 412's are now Difficult tasks for Sally.<BR><BR>Player:&nbsp; "Okay, I'll still take it slow, but remember I've gotten in<BR>some practice on this one...&lt;rattle&gt;...4...Rats!&nbsp; That's only 7.<BR>Did she make it?"<BR><BR>Ref nods and notes that extra time was taken...<BR><BR>Ref:&nbsp; "....yes.&nbsp; Yes, she does, but again that extra time made the<BR>difference."<BR><BR>***********<BR><BR>Doesn't this deal with case 2 and, with some minor modifications to<BR>the dialog, case 3?&nbsp; Now, this doesn't deal with the malfunctioning<BR>lock, but frankly, I'd fold your case 1 and 4 together anyway as all<BR>part of random chance.<BR><BR>If it doesn't I don't understand why not.<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 10:40:04 -0800<BR>From: "Jesse Degraff" &lt;jedegraf@cisco.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>ROFLMAOASMCW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<BR>Thanks Legate, that made a shitty morning into a great day :)<BR>Jesse<BR><BR>"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety<BR>deserve neither liberty nor safety."<BR>- -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759<BR><BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Legate Legion<BR>&gt; Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 6:19 PM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground<BR>&gt; Forces))<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; From: Jesse Degraff &lt;jedegraf@cisco.com&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;How did Mark's twice-a-year shoot become my monthly fun shoot?<BR>&gt; And I live<BR>&gt; &gt;in the PRK (People's Republic of Kalifornia) where you can't have these<BR>&gt; &gt;wonderful toys!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1. The Jesse Degraff Monthly Fun Shoot sounds better the the Mark's<BR>&gt; Twice-a-Year-Fun Shoot.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2. You are just so lovable that we could sell Jesse Degraff<BR>&gt; Teddy Bears<BR>&gt; to all of the kiddies &amp; make money.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 3. Why the hell not?<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 4. So we can have Ditzie T-Shirts made with "The Jesse Degraff Monthly<BR>&gt; Fun Shoot" printed on then.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 5. So we can tell Kenji once a month that he cannot touch a<BR>&gt; weapon &amp; get<BR>&gt; away with it.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 6. So I can get out to one of them.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 7. So I can shoot that 20mm Cannon.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 8. K'kree Bar-B-Qued Ribs served at every Fun Shoot.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 9. When Aslan Females in Comfortable Shoes&nbsp; were polled, they prefered<BR>&gt; the "The Jesse Degraff Monthly Fun Shoot" over "Mark's Twice-a-Year-Fun<BR>&gt; Shoot".<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 10. When Pirates were polled, they prefered the "The Jesse Degraff<BR>&gt; Monthly Fun Shoot" over "Mark's Twice-a-Year-Fun Shoot".<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 11. When Near-C Rocks were polled, they prefered the "The<BR>&gt; Jesse Degraff<BR>&gt; Monthly Fun Shoot" over "Mark's Twice-a-Year-Fun Shoot".<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 12. When Virus&nbsp; Offshoots were polled, they prefered the "The Jesse<BR>&gt; Degraff Monthly Fun Shoot" over "Mark's Twice-a-Year-Fun Shoot".<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 13. When members of the RCES were polled, they prefered the "The Jesse<BR>&gt; Degraff Monthly Fun Shoot" over "Mark's Twice-a-Year-Fun Shoot".<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 14. When Zhodani were polled, they prefered the "The Jesse Degraff<BR>&gt; Monthly Fun Shoot" over "Mark's Twice-a-Year-Fun Shoot".<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 15. When Sword Worlders were polled, they prefered the "The Jesse<BR>&gt; Degraff Monthly Fun Shoot" over "Mark's Twice-a-Year-Fun Shoot".<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 16. Cause the Roc says so.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 17. Hey it beats watching another bad Voyager Ep.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 18. The Jesse Degraff M41A Pulse Rifle/ACR was designed with you in<BR>&gt; mind.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>&gt; ICQ # 8973001<BR>&gt; legate@futureone.com<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>&gt; places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>&gt; passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>&gt; USS Excaliber.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 10:43:10 -0800<BR>From: "Jesse Degraff" &lt;jedegraf@cisco.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>Oooooo, I LIKE it!!!!&nbsp; Now if Mom would only hurry up and get that computer<BR>controlled embroidery machine she was talking about.....Must be the $12,000<BR>price tag.<BR><BR>Jesse<BR><BR>"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety<BR>deserve neither liberty nor safety."<BR>- -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759<BR><BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson<BR>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 2:43 AM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground<BR>&gt; Forces))<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; From: Jesse Degraff &lt;jedegraf@cisco.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;How did Mark's twice-a-year shoot become my monthly fun shoot?<BR>&gt; And I live<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;in the PRK (People's Republic of Kalifornia) where you can't have these<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;wonderful toys!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 4. So we can have Ditzie T-Shirts made with "The Jesse<BR>&gt; Degraff Monthly<BR>&gt; &gt; Fun Shoot" printed on then.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Actually, It occurs to me that we ought to have some T-shirts or even<BR>&gt; jackets done up:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Famile Spofulam<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Heavy Weapons<BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Testing Team<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; or some such.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>&gt; leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3439<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-xa05.mx.aol.com (rly-xa05.mail.aol.com [172.20.105.74]) by air-xa04.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 13:45:03 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-xa05.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 13:44:40 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id NAA37072;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 13:43:04 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Wed, 20 Dec 2000 13:42:54 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id NAA37033<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 13:42:54 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 13:42:54 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012201842.NAA37033@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3439<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3440</B></TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Wednesday, December 20 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3440<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>RE: Noble vs. military rank<BR>Re: Noble vs. military rank<BR>Re: MREs again?!?&nbsp; Awww, Mom!!! [OT] [IAJS]*<BR>Re: KB3 Question: whiny<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3439<BR>Re: Noble vs. military rank<BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>Re: Reft sector X-boat link<BR>Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising<BR>Re: Fw: passport application<BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>Re: RE: Noble vs. military rank<BR>Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR>Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR>Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>Re: Warrant Officers<BR>Re: Noble vs. military rank<BR>Re: RE: Noble vs. military rank<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 13:48:58 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Noble vs. military rank<BR><BR>At 4:06 PM +0000 12/20/00, Jones, Dean wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Lietenant would do that. Resurrection? Well, the honorary rank is the least<BR>&gt;of *that* films problems :). Winona was cute, though.<BR><BR>"Did standards drop sharply while I was away?"<BR><BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 12:54:37 -0600<BR>From: "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" &lt;sdaniels@playnet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Noble vs. military rank<BR><BR>Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; At 4:06 PM +0000 12/20/00, Jones, Dean wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Lietenant would do that. Resurrection? Well, the honorary rank is the least<BR>&gt; &gt;of *that* films problems :). Winona was cute, though.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "Did standards drop sharply while I was away?"<BR><BR>Standards?&nbsp; What are those again?<BR><BR>What I think happened was those who are most intolerant<BR>of OT stuff unsubbed and migrated to JTAS.&nbsp; As long as<BR>you're on TML, it just drags you into OTness.&nbsp; You can't<BR>fight it.&nbsp; The event horizon is very close to the majordomo<BR>subscription process.<BR><BR>bloo<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 13:56:55 -0500<BR>From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: MREs again?!?&nbsp; Awww, Mom!!! [OT] [IAJS]*<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:09:09 -0700<BR>&gt;From: Steve Charlton &lt;steve.charlton@ifsna.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: MREs again?!?&nbsp; Awww, Mom!!!<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>Between this and the parent post be Leonard, honestly, for a brief moment I <BR>saw, clearly on my screen, 'near-C-rats'.<BR><BR>So either this is in reference to food that is almost, but not quite, <BR>entirely unlike overprocessed hyperpreserved food analogues, or there are <BR>some rodents out there trying to determine just how much they'll travel <BR>through time if they jump at 99% of the speed of light.<BR><BR>Cheers<BR><BR><BR>* IAJS = "It's A Joke, Son"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 14:05:37 -0500<BR>From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>Subject: Re: KB3 Question: whiny<BR><BR>Ack!&nbsp; I go one evening without checking my mail and the next morning I'm drowning in posts (which isn't that unusual, except that I was actually trying to follow this thread...)<BR><BR>Anyhow...<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden wrote:<BR>(quoting me)<BR>&gt;&gt; having to roll every time a PC does something is already kind of a <BR>&gt;&gt;turn-off<BR><BR>&gt;Are you talking about KB3?&nbsp; Or are you talking about ANY Traveller <BR>&gt;system?<BR><BR>I should've made my perspective (as a GM) clearer.&nbsp; In "normal" Traveller, when a player wants his character to do something, the player rolls the dice.&nbsp; In this system, when the player wants to do something he still rolls the dice, but now the GM rolls a set too.&nbsp; Consider a group of 6 players, each of them simultaneously performing some kind of task.&nbsp; The players are making one roll apiece, same as they've always done, but now, instead of making zero rolls, the GM makes 6 rolls.&nbsp; Multiply this by every action in an entire session, and the GM is quite likely making hundreds of die-rolls.<BR><BR>I don't particularly like this, because, to be honest, I'm not all that fond of rolling dice -- I don't like the unpredictability, and (although statistical analysis would probably prove otherwise) I swear I've got worse-than-average luck.&nbsp; And now my dice-burden (as GM) has been massively increased.&nbsp; <BR><BR>When I state a difficulty, I'm making the assumption that that's an accurate description, and the element of chance is in the player's roll.&nbsp; This system multiplies (or, at very least, splits up) the element of chance so that, depending on the GM's dice roll, an "Easy" task can suddenly become quite hard, or a "Formidable" task can become a walk-over, regardless of what the player rolls.&nbsp; I like more consistent predictability of results than that -- I think the players should succeed or fail based on their own skill and luck, not the GM's (especially my own, very bad) luck!<BR><BR>On the other hand, I like the KB3 Static Target Numbers, since they remove my stricken dice-luck from the equation.&nbsp; Would it be too terribly damaging to the system if the GM just used these numbers all the time instead of rolling for every task?&nbsp; I know you claim that the competition of opposed rolls heightens the enjoyment, but I think that's more a case of your own particular group's dynamic than a legitimate general principle.&nbsp; What I'm more concerned with is if such a change would actually damage the numerical working of the system -- with the E-Die and minimaxing skill values, and all that.&nbsp; Is the randomization of the difficulty table more a necessary, integral part of the system or a colorful matter of taste? <BR><BR><BR>&gt;&gt; *Of course back in my younger days I had a big Crown Royal bag <BR>&gt;&gt;full of dice in all shapes, sizes, and colors, just like everyone <BR>&gt;&gt;else, but nowadays it's all about economy (and carrying around as <BR>&gt;&gt;few dice as possible -- why would anyone EVER need more than, say, <BR>&gt;&gt;2 D8's or D12's?).<BR><BR>&gt;Well...if you're me...I've still got that Crown Royal bag...and I <BR>&gt;supply all my players with dice!&nbsp; :)<BR><BR>What's even worse is that my players were such bums that I still had to supply most of them with dice, even though I only carry 2 sets (with a couple extra D6's and D10's).&nbsp; I considered myself lucky if everybody showed up with their characters (and kept back-up copies in case they didn't)!<BR><BR>Trent<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 14:06:13 -0500<BR>From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3439<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:37:52 -0800 (PST)<BR>&gt;From: Kiri Aradia Morgan &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3436<BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt;LOL, but this is referring to an actual event that took place at Doug's<BR>&gt;house.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;kirichan yori&nbsp; ^_^<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;******************************************************************************<BR>&gt;Kiri Aradia Morgan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 93!&nbsp; Thou Art God<BR>&gt;tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>&gt;If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>&gt;Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>&gt;Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>&gt;Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>&gt;Desire is embraced in a dream..."&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- X-JAPAN<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;------------------------------<BR><BR>I think to maintain the 'Family' rating of the list, I'd better not ask. =)<BR><BR>On the other hand, the temptation to ask is nearly overwhelming!<BR><BR>And on the ObGH (Obligatory Gripping Hand), the list having a 'Family' <BR>rating went out the window quite a long time ago, it seems. =)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:19:27 -0800<BR>From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Noble vs. military rank<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Lietenant would do that. Resurrection? Well, the honorary rank is the<BR>least<BR>&gt; &gt;of *that* films problems :). Winona was cute, though.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "Did standards drop sharply while I was away?"<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Kenji<BR><BR>"Did IQs drop sharply while I was away?"&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 10:32:41 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;The problem is that being able to "steer" the way you propose requires<BR>&gt;&gt;that the drive somehow be "intelligent". That it, is has to be able to<BR>&gt;&gt;"act" upon information THAT THE ASTROGATOR DOESN'T HAVE. And, that, in<BR>&gt;&gt;fact, the rules make quite clear he *cannot* have.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; jump-emergence-point-moves-at-velocity-ship-had-when-it-jumped<BR>&gt; achieves all the steering objectives. Jump into empty space? Fine,<BR>&gt; you don't care what your entrance velocity was. Jumping to a planet?<BR>&gt; Match to the planets expected velocity, and your emergence point will<BR>&gt; move along with it if you arrive late. Jumping into a rendezvous<BR>&gt; point elsewhere in a solar system? Match velocities to be stationary<BR>&gt; with respect to the target star. Nice and easy.<BR><BR>Having the exit point moving with respect to the entrance point bothers<BR>me. A *lot*. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 10:40:00 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Reft sector X-boat link<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Any observer in an inertial frame will see the ship as having the<BR>&gt;&gt; same vector when it leaves jumps that it had when entering jump. I<BR>&gt;&gt; guess that's the relativistic sense?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; It gets trickier when gravity is involved.&nbsp; 30 km/s at Earth orbit<BR>&gt; isn't the same as 30 km/s isn't the same as 30 km/s in interstellar<BR>&gt; space, and different again from intergalactic space.&nbsp; It depends upon<BR>&gt; the spacetime path you take.<BR><BR>The *momentum* is the same. It's the potential energy that's different.<BR>And that can be assumed to be covered by the energy used by the jump<BR>drive.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Keep in mind that there is going to be "Space Traffic Control" (STC)<BR>&gt;&gt; and they'll be telling you exactly what course to follow. Given that<BR>&gt;&gt; a 100 ton ship at 100+ km/sec will hit like a fair sized nuke,<BR>&gt;&gt; they'll have you taking a somewhat less than direct course. :-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Isn't that only a problem if the thrusters fail in flight?&nbsp; You need<BR>&gt; thrusters to decelerate regardless of whether you accelerate before<BR>&gt; jump or after.&nbsp; So I don't see how it makes a difference.<BR><BR>It makes a difference in that the thrusters might fail "on purpose" if<BR>you are a terrorist fanatic...<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Usually, it is 100 diameters out from the destination world, on a line <BR>&gt; which<BR>&gt;&gt; reaches back to the origin point.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Or, the ship can come out at a plotted point, at the point with a <BR>&gt; variation of<BR>&gt;&gt; +D-D times 50,000 km, along the line between origin and destination.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; What is D, here?&nbsp; Is it an abbreviation for 1D6 (hence "+D-D" means<BR>&gt; the same as 2D-7), or is it Diameter?<BR><BR>Ask Marc. But my money is on "D" being "1d6".<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 10:43:45 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: (OT) Narrow-minded people (was: Finnish and American RPGs)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; At 05:44 PM 12/19/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; *weg* = JOKE.&nbsp; Please keep that in mind.&nbsp; I am hardly ever serious, &amp;<BR>&gt;&gt;yet you people treat me as such.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Legate, your jokes are rarely funny.&nbsp; You seem to think that insulting<BR>&gt; people is humorous.&nbsp; It isn't.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; *plonk*<BR><BR>Alas, some of us can't use killfiles on *mail*. :-(<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 10:49:54 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; At 11:52 AM 12/19/2000 PST, you wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;In mail you write:<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Won't *that* be fun!&nbsp; You think they'll "come after it" like they did <BR>&gt; when <BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; they were threatened with water shortages?<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Slight problem. To do that. they'd have to fight through almost all of<BR>&gt;&gt;Oregon. And *we* don't have those silly gun laws that California does...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Will use Soviet-style human wave assaults.&nbsp; I always knew that the<BR>&gt; population of Los Angeles would come in handy someday..<BR><BR>And we can use Soviet style "lots and lots of not much" defenses. Hell,<BR>clobber I-5 and your route of attack goes all to hell. :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 10:58:51 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson) puts into the Ether:<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;on their front page. He did however, get us out of Vietnam!!!!<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; ObTrav: by 1105, how much of a backwater does a place have to be<BR>&gt;&gt;before the locals start trusting the Impies? :&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; This brings the "Cargo Cult" concept to mind.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I'm sure that some Impie&nbsp; bcrat has written several volumes of rules &amp; regs <BR>&gt; on why the Imperial Military (including IISS) is required to discourage the <BR>&gt; formation of such cults.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I'm also sure that the formation of such cults is SOP in the IISS &amp; IN <BR>&gt; operating at the fringes of explored space.<BR><BR>I think you are a bit confused regarding Cargo Cults. They weren't<BR>encouraged in any way by the military personnel. Rather, they were an<BR>attempt by the natives to explain everything that happened. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:09:44 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Fw: passport application<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Good thing I deleted that long commentary on the probable<BR>&gt;&gt;personal habits of those four *special* TML luminaries...<BR>&gt;&gt;yeah, you know which ones I mean...<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; Shhh!!!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Do you really want *everyone* to know I had a certain person's Koch between<BR>&gt; my ****?&nbsp; While Hechler... watched?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Kenji-chama, these are things I would only tell you.&nbsp; (and those members of<BR>&gt; the TML that were present, of course...)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; LOL<BR>&gt; kirichan yori&nbsp; ^_^<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; (if I don't get penguin boy's keyboard with this one I might as well hangup<BR>&gt; my g-string...)<BR><BR>Don't let *us* stop you from hanging it up. And of course, we'd *never*<BR>be so crass as to ask for JPEGs... :-)<BR><BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 12:11:58 -0800<BR>From: Gordon Horne &lt;gordon.horne@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>&gt;[snip]<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; jump-emergence-point-moves-at-velocity-ship-had-when-it-jumped<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; achieves all the steering objectives.<BR>&gt;[snip]<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Having the exit point moving with respect to the entrance point bothers<BR>&gt;me. A *lot*.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>It's not my idea, but i've been thinking about the consequences. I <BR>don't see that exit point has to move with respect to the entrance <BR>point for this handwave to work. Initiating a jump could create both <BR>entry and exit points simultaneously. The ship enters one and 136 - <BR>196 hrs later exits the other. During this time both end points exist <BR>and move in concert. This has some interesting consequences. An exit <BR>point exists for up to 196 hours before a ship emerges. I bet <BR>scientists are frantically looking for a way to detect these <BR>potential emergence points before a ship actually comes through. <BR>Similarly, an entry point persists until the exit point collapses. <BR>This is less of an potential boon to militaries, however. If you <BR>accept that velocity is conserved (canon) and that energy = distance <BR>(canon) then observations of the ship before it jumps will tell you <BR>its destination.<BR><BR>Relativity takes a beating under this model, but it does under any <BR>jump drive model.<BR><BR>TTFN<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; g<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 00:28:03 +0400<BR>From: Andrew Long &lt;andylong@emirates.net.ae&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: RE: Noble vs. military rank<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:05:35 -0500<BR>&gt; From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Noble vs. military rank<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; At 7:35 PM +1300 12/20/00, Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&lt;Snip&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;They are effectively the top level of the NCO (Non-Commissioned Officer)<BR>&gt; &gt;ranks<BR>&gt; &gt;There are two Warrant ranks.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;These ranks relate to the ranks Sergeant Major and (I think) Regimental<BR>&gt; &gt;Sergeant Major in the Army, Petty Officer &amp; Chief Petty Officer in the Navy,<BR>&gt; &gt;and just Warrant Officer One&nbsp; and Warrant Officer Two in the Airforce.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; So... they're just different names and types of paper for the top <BR>&gt; layer of NCOs?&nbsp; Is that all?*<BR>&gt; <BR>I rather think that the word JUST is a .... poor choice of words (and I suspect that Mexal will support me in this...) I remember having the life scared out of me by the Station WO when I was a poor, newly posted civil servant at an RAF base; all I'd done was walk over a car park from one building to another (only it wasn't a parking lot at that moment - it was the parade ground ... and they were jjust about to do Last Post (Taps to our Amercian cousins)<BR><BR>I couldn't think straight for .... several Pints, at least.<BR><BR>regards, Andy<BR>========================================<BR>Andy long&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Dyrnwynn@HotMail.com<BR>========================================<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 08:09:25 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR><BR>Phill Webb wrote:<BR>&gt; Is it not a GM decision to put the lock there in the first place?<BR><BR>Yes.&nbsp; it's also the GM's decision how difficult it is, and hence under<BR>most game mechanics how likely the character is to succeed in picking<BR>it.&nbsp; So who needs to roll for the result -- it's mostly determined by<BR>the GM's decision anyway.<BR><BR>The only reason it seems dice mechanics exist is to save the GM<BR>filling in the causes, such as whether the PC has seen this type of<BR>lock before, etc, by abstracting them into random chance.&nbsp; But if you<BR>are actually *interested* in the causes, it saves nothing and actually<BR>discourages looking at causes at all.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; I can't see how the task roll can tell you the reasons behind<BR>&gt; success/failure.<BR><BR>It doesn't really have to.&nbsp; That can be partly subject to<BR>interpretation, just as results are subject to interpretation.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; What we need is an AI GM assistant to keep track off this stuff and<BR>&gt; remind us that the pc has successfully picked this type of lock<BR>&gt; before.<BR><BR>That's below the level of abstraction I'm looking for.&nbsp; But it would<BR>really be helpful :^)<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Have you made a beginning on the design of your system? I would be<BR>&gt; interested in seeing were it was headed.<BR><BR>Unfortunately I've made many beginnings.&nbsp; I'll post more in reply to<BR>other messages in this thread.&nbsp; The problem is that I can't steal<BR>ideas from other game systems since no other game systems do what I<BR>want.&nbsp; That slow down development, a lot.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 08:44:13 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR><BR>[...philosophy of persistent causes...]<BR><BR>&gt; How do you handle this in your games?<BR><BR>Probably much the same as anyone else in practice.&nbsp; The only<BR>difference is that I find it lacking in continuity.&nbsp; The game<BR>mechanics distract from my goals because they're not suited. Playing<BR>completely diceless is too much work for me as a GM, and I feel I'm<BR>being too arbitrary.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Have you seen a set of game mechanics in another game that you liked<BR>&gt; and thought came close to what you are looking for?<BR><BR>Unfortunately no.&nbsp; Otherwise I'd be refining and developing them right<BR>now.&nbsp; At the moment I'm either looking for a way to adapt existing<BR>mechanics to the purpose without being too clunky, or starting from<BR>scratch.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; On the surface, it seems to me, that all you need is an independent<BR>&gt; "mood" modifier (for lack of a better term right at this moment).&nbsp; A<BR>&gt; "mood" modifier would reflect the "conditions of the cosmos" at that<BR>&gt; moment.<BR><BR>That's what I thought at first, too.&nbsp; But the attempts have been too<BR>clunky in practice when grafted onto an existing system -- they're not<BR>designed with that sort of thing in mind.&nbsp; The main thing is that it<BR>should reduce variance, since part of what dice variance represents<BR>has been accounted for.<BR><BR>It's not easy to graft this sort of fundamental change onto an<BR>existing system, though I'm still trying.&nbsp; They really are focussed<BR>only on one-off effects.&nbsp; I want a system that shifts the focus from<BR>(abstract) effects to (abstract) causes -- not trying to focus on both<BR>at once.<BR><BR>It's not that I want a system that gives me results *and* causes.&nbsp; I<BR>want a system that gives me causes, from which I can deduce results in<BR>a non-arbitrary way.<BR><BR>Abstraction is fine, the system doesn't need to say "the character has<BR>studied the NV-217A locking mechanism and knows how to disarm it --<BR>record on the character sheet".&nbsp; That's too much detail.&nbsp; I can invent<BR>that sort of detail on the spot, *provided* the system can support it<BR>in rough outline.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; My point is, you're talking about some "factor" that effects similar<BR>&gt; rolls for a given period of time during the game.<BR><BR>Not exactly.&nbsp; In the game world, there will be some combination of<BR>*all* of the factors I mentioned at work.&nbsp; You don't need to know<BR>explictly what they are necessarily, that can be GM interpretation.<BR>You only need to recognise that all but random chance skew later rolls<BR>in the *same* direction as the first result, whatever it was.<BR><BR>This isn't an overall 'mood'.&nbsp; It's due to something tangible to the<BR>characters, something they can affect if they know about it.<BR>Something their actions influence.&nbsp; Something that reduces the<BR>influence of capricious chance, for good or for ill.&nbsp; Something that<BR>explains and justifies the result.<BR><BR>I'll post more in a different message in this thread -- this one is<BR>getting too long again.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 09:03:03 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Since it is impossible to figure what "outside factors" will effect<BR>&gt; your PCs on the day you are playing, game mechanics have to be<BR>&gt; designed to give you an average "range of outcomes".<BR><BR>Why can't they give a "range of factors" instead, to the same degree<BR>of abstraction?<BR><BR><BR>&gt; I think most GMs look down at the dice, see a high number or a<BR>&gt; Spectacular Success or (in the case of KB3) a Greater Success, and<BR>&gt; say, "Hey!&nbsp; You aced that roll!&nbsp; I guess your character is in top<BR>&gt; form today!"<BR><BR>Yes, that's true.&nbsp; Only they hardly ever actually follow that thought<BR>to its conclusion.&nbsp; If you're in top form today, then *all* your rolls<BR>should have bonuses, compared to days when you're in average form.<BR><BR>So if you don't give bonuses (and almost none do), then the character<BR>can't have been in top form after all.&nbsp; That's the 'capriciousness and<BR>arbitrariness' that I keep referring to.&nbsp; The system doesn't support<BR>such persistent factors.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; I think most of us try to fit reality around the outcome of a<BR>&gt; result--if you rolled good, then factors were in your favor<BR><BR>Yes, that's right.&nbsp; Only, most of us pay only lip service to the idea<BR>of such factors.&nbsp; In practice, they are ignored.&nbsp; And hence, they<BR>don't really affect the characters.&nbsp; Their performance as a result is<BR>chance-riddled and unreliable due to random variation in the dice.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; (or you were just plain lucky that one time).<BR><BR>This is, in practice, the only one that makes any sense when you try<BR>to reconcile performance over more than one task.&nbsp; Random chance<BR>dominates in most game systems, and by looking at even a few outcomes<BR>you very quickly rule out the possibility of anything else happening<BR>in the game world.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; If you rolled bad, then conditions must be against you that day.<BR><BR>Again, if you believed that you'd actually apply penalties to future<BR>rolls to reflect the fact that you now know that conditions are bad.<BR><BR><BR>I'll probably post some more later demonstrating what I mean more<BR>precisely.&nbsp; I've got a very clear concept in mind, but it's best<BR>expressed in mathematical terms and I've learned to avoid spewing huge<BR>gouts of technical talk in public discussions :^)<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 09:08:29 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>[someone wrote:]<BR>&gt; &gt; jump-emergence-point-moves-at-velocity-ship-had-when-it-jumped<BR>&gt; &gt; achieves all the steering objectives.<BR><BR>&gt; Having the exit point moving with respect to the entrance point<BR>&gt; bothers me. A *lot*.<BR><BR>Tsk, you know about relativity, you should know that "velocity<BR>relative to an event" is a meangless concept.&nbsp; Which frame of<BR>reference is the 'entry point' stationary in?&nbsp; Why that one and no<BR>others?<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:08:00 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Warrant Officers<BR><BR>At 9:05 AM -0800 12/20/00, AuricTech Shipyards wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Note that warrant officers in the US military, unlike those in<BR><BR>{wholesale snip}<BR><BR>Thanks; that actually helps a lot.<BR><BR>For the British(-style) militaries, though, I'm still not at all <BR>clear what the difference is between a W.O. and top NCOs/junior <BR>officers aside from the human resources issue of holding a warrant. <BR>What's the big deal?<BR><BR>(Yes, still being purposely blase'.&nbsp; Squeaky wheels get the FGMP, <BR>dontcha know.)<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:12:39 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Noble vs. military rank<BR><BR>At 12:54 PM -0600 12/20/00, Steve (Bloo) Daniels wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; At 4:06 PM +0000 12/20/00, Jones, Dean wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &gt;Lietenant would do that. Resurrection? Well, the honorary rank is the least<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &gt;of *that* films problems :). Winona was cute, though.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; "Did standards drop sharply while I was away?"<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Standards?&nbsp; What are those again?<BR><BR>The idea that Winona be given any valid role in an Aliens movie other <BR>than entertaining the Colonial Marines with her now well-known <BR>ping-pong ball trick is a disgrace.<BR><BR>I'm sure Legate will point out this disgusting misuse of talent <BR>presumably has something to do with the nationality of the director <BR>of Alien Ressurection.<BR><BR>&gt;What I think happened was those who are most intolerant<BR>&gt;of OT stuff unsubbed and migrated to JTAS.<BR><BR>Well, that's a pity and a loss, and makes me even more embarrassed at <BR>my own meandering frivolity.&nbsp; Not enough to actually mend my ways <BR>completely, though.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; As long as<BR>&gt;you're on TML, it just drags you into OTness.&nbsp; You can't<BR>&gt;fight it.&nbsp; The event horizon is very close to the majordomo<BR>&gt;subscription process.<BR><BR>Well, we might as well just lie back and enjoy it, then.*<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR><BR><BR>*ObTrav: Like the French.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 16:17:24 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: RE: Noble vs. military rank<BR><BR>On 12/21/00 at 12:28 AM,&nbsp; Andrew Long &lt;andylong@emirates.net.ae&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; At 7:35 PM +1300 12/20/00, Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&lt;Snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;They are effectively the top level of the NCO (Non-Commissioned<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;Officer) ranks There are two Warrant ranks.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;These ranks relate to the ranks Sergeant Major and (I think)<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;Regimental Sergeant Major in the Army, Petty Officer &amp; Chief<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;Petty Officer in the Navy, and just Warrant Officer One and<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;Warrant Officer Two in the Airforce.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; So... they're just different names and types of paper for the top<BR>&gt;&gt; layer of NCOs?&nbsp; Is that all?*<BR><BR>I was waiting for someone in the US to chime in, no one has, so I'll<BR>say a word.&nbsp; No, not exactly.&nbsp; In the US a Warrant Officer is an<BR>officer, not an NCO.&nbsp; The difference is they don't have a<BR>Congressional Commission, they have a Warrant granted by ???<BR>(Secretary of the Navy or Army, I think).&nbsp; This makes them "neither<BR>fish nor fowl", but a little of both.&nbsp; Warrant Officers are<BR>generally technical specialists in positions were an Officer would<BR>normally be placed, able to give orders to enlisted personnel, but<BR>not normally in the Line of Command.&nbsp; I'm pretty sure they have a courtesy<BR>rank of some sort of Lt, but I wouldn't swear to it.<BR><BR>Sergeant Majors are another kettle of fish, entirely. <BR><BR>&gt;I rather think that the word JUST is a .... poor choice of words<BR>&gt;(and I suspect that Mexal will support me in this...) I remember<BR>&gt;having the life scared out of me by the Station WO when I was a<BR>&gt;poor, newly posted civil servant at an RAF base; all I'd done was<BR>&gt;walk over a car park from one building to another (only it wasn't a<BR>&gt;parking lot at that moment - it was the parade ground ... and they<BR>&gt;were jjust about to do Last Post (Taps to our Amercian cousins)<BR><BR>&gt;I couldn't think straight for .... several Pints, at least.<BR><BR>The thought of it still makes you stutter, I see. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3440<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yh05.mx.aol.com (rly-yh05.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.37]) by air-yh04.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:19:18 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yh05.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:18:50 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id RAA55481;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:17:45 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:17:32 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id RAA55442<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:17:31 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:17:31 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012202217.RAA55442@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3440<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Wednesday, December 20 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3441<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: DUNE Messiah! &amp; Other Books<BR>Re: Shannara (was Re: DUNE Messiah!)<BR>Re: Low standards<BR>Re: Task persistence (was Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks)<BR>Re: Reft sector X-boat link<BR>Re: KB3 Question: whiny<BR>Re: KB3 Question: whiny<BR>Re: Shannara (was Re: DUNE Messiah!)<BR>Cargo Cults<BR>Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR>Books to Traveller: Your Thoughts?<BR>Re: Task persistence (was Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks)<BR>Re: Task persistence (was Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks)<BR>Re: Cargo Cults (and Son of Santanocheev!)<BR>Re: Task persistence (was Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks)<BR>Re: H&amp;E The End<BR>Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 16:19:31 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: DUNE Messiah! &amp; Other Books<BR><BR>James Jensen wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; In retrospect, the parts about the battle were pretty good, but I didn't<BR>&gt; really like them at the time. They seemed like an annoying sidetrack when<BR>&gt; all I wanted to know was whether or not the hero (I can't remember his name<BR>&gt; at the moment) finds the sword.<BR><BR>I remember, clearly, that scene where the Ranger character shoots that goblin in<BR>the but, sending the hot coals everywhere.<BR><BR>That's really (in highschool) when I realized what an alignment was in D&amp;D.&nbsp; I<BR>remember how the scene started, and there was this fear that the Ranger was<BR>going to kill the goblin as he was doing a ceremony for his fellow goblin<BR>buddies.<BR><BR>The Ranger didn't want to shoot the goblin (from afar...the goblins didn't know<BR>that Shea &amp; Co. were watching them go through their religious stuff), but they<BR>needed to get across the bridge...and they knew the goblins would see them and<BR>attack them.<BR><BR>I remember reading that book, actually seeing, like it was on the big screen,<BR>the Ranger test how taunt his string on his bow was.&nbsp; He hefted back on the bow,<BR>nocked the arrow...and you knew he was going to do exactly what he didn't want<BR>to do...kill the goblin king so that the party could get over the bridge.<BR><BR>You thought the Ranger would always remember killing the goblin, because he<BR>wasn't the type of guy who could kill and not have it effect him.<BR><BR>Then the Ranger let loose--and he shot the bowl of coals!&nbsp; Which sparked up,<BR>throwing the goblins in a fracas...Shea, the Ranger &amp; party got across the<BR>bridge safely...<BR><BR>...and the Ranger found a way around the problem with out killing anyone.<BR><BR>I remember stopping the book right then, looking up, and thinking to myself--not<BR>THAT'S how a ranger should be played...the guy definitely had "good" in his<BR>alignment.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Next question: Have you read "The Soulforge" by Margaret Weiss?<BR><BR>Haven't.&nbsp; Heard it was good.&nbsp; Loved the original DragonLance trilogy, and the<BR>sequal trilogy.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Or, my fav fantasy book, "The Brother's War"? That's the only full-sized<BR>&gt; novel that I'd ever finished reading by the day after I had bought it. Can't<BR>&gt; say too much for its sequel, "Planeswalker", though.<BR><BR>Haven't read those either.&nbsp; A friend of mine keeps hyping me about the fantasy<BR>book (forget the title) out by George R. R. Martin.<BR><BR>He says it is fantastic.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; I'll give it a try. If for no other reason than to read them all in order.<BR><BR>You reading Dune now?&nbsp; Or, you already read it?<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 16:22:36 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Shannara (was Re: DUNE Messiah!)<BR><BR>GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; Largely because the man can't write his own stuff. "Sword" is Lord of the<BR>&gt; Rings with the serial numbers filed off. I actually got through #2, then gave<BR>&gt; up halfway through #3 because he started breaking every rule of good writing<BR>&gt; except the ones about spelling...<BR><BR>I don't know it about being a LotR knock off.&nbsp; I started "The Hobbit", and it was<BR>way too kiddie-fied for me.&nbsp; It was much more "fairy tale fantasy" than typical<BR>sword &amp; sorcery fantasy (reminded me of that stupid movie Tom Cruise and Ridley<BR>Scott made called "Legend"--looked cool, but was too much of a fairy tale to<BR>interest me).<BR><BR>Who knows, though...with the new trilogy of multi-million dollar LotR movies<BR>coming out, I may just have to read those puppies.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 14:26:32 -0800<BR>From: Russell Bornschlegel &lt;kaleja@estarcion.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>&gt; At 12:54 PM -0600 12/20/00, Steve (Bloo) Daniels wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &gt; At 4:06 PM +0000 12/20/00, Jones, Dean wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &gt;Lietenant would do that. Resurrection? Well, the honorary rank is the least<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &gt;of *that* films problems :). Winona was cute, though.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; "Did standards drop sharply while I was away?"<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Standards?&nbsp; What are those again?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The idea that Winona be given any valid role in an Aliens movie other<BR>&gt; than entertaining the Colonial Marines with her now well-known<BR>&gt; ping-pong ball trick is a disgrace.<BR><BR>Awwww, come on. She's decorative, isn't that sufficient?<BR><BR>- -Russell B<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 09:44:35 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Task persistence (was Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks)<BR><BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Now, I really shouldn't get into this, I have *so* much work to<BR>&gt; do...but...I can't help myself! &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Me too!&nbsp; :^)&nbsp; I couldn't help myself starting it!<BR><BR>&gt; The task still has a random element, the PC could still slip up and<BR>&gt; fail, but the odds are better she will succeed.<BR><BR>That's why I said "near" certain :^) There's still the odds of<BR>slipping up.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; But that doesn't *have* to be the case. Take the MT situation...<BR><BR>I agree, that's why I still have hope that I can adapt an existing<BR>system to my needs.&nbsp; I'll make comments where I think the system could<BR>help out more.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Player:&nbsp; "Sally has Lockpick-2, she'll examine the lock.&nbsp; Does she<BR>&gt; recognize it?"<BR><BR>I'd like this to be as abstracted into the system, rather than<BR>requiring the player and GM to explicitly deal with it.&nbsp; I like the<BR>idea that player decisions should coincide with character decisions as<BR>much as possible. If you're picking a lock you aren't going to decide<BR>whether you want to try to recognise it or not -- it is a necessary<BR>part of the overall task and should be abstracted into that task.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Ref:&nbsp; "Yes, It's a Ling Standard 412.&nbsp; Sally has worked on these<BR>&gt; before, but not recently.&nbsp; It's going to be a little harder than<BR>&gt; normal for Sally to pick it. Is she going to try?"<BR><BR>Here is some Ref arbitrariness.&nbsp; Surely recognising a lock as one<BR>you've worked on before makes it *easier*, not harder, to pick?&nbsp; The<BR>fact that it's been a while simply means the bonus shouldn't be as<BR>high as one picked last week -- but still a bonus, not a penalty.<BR><BR>Would it have been Impossible if she had recognised it as one she<BR>hasn't worked on?&nbsp; Worse if she didn't recognise it at all?<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Ref: "Right and yes, but you needed that extra time.&nbsp; You think you<BR>&gt; can do better on the next LS 412 now that you've had a little<BR>&gt; practice."<BR><BR>That makes a lot of sense, and I'd want it to be part of the basic<BR>game mechanic.&nbsp; If you succeed once at a perviously uncertain task,<BR>chances are much better that you'll succeed again.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Doesn't this deal with case 2 and, with some minor modifications to<BR>&gt; the dialog, case 3?&nbsp; Now, this doesn't deal with the malfunctioning<BR>&gt; lock, but frankly, I'd fold your case 1 and 4 together anyway as all<BR>&gt; part of random chance.<BR><BR>In (4), if one lock is poorly maintained, there's a higher-than-normal<BR>chance that others will be too.&nbsp; That, too, has a cause -- and causes<BR>tend to be persistent.&nbsp; (Old building, neglectful owners, whatever)<BR><BR>There's still cases 5-9 to deal with.&nbsp; Too many cases to make it<BR>explicit, which is why I left them out.&nbsp; I want a game mechanic that<BR>deals with persistent causes by abstracting their effects, not relying<BR>on the Ref to decide which of ten cases holds, making up game<BR>mechanics on the fly and rememberering each one.<BR><BR>I think this is possible.&nbsp; The common thread that links *all* of cases<BR>2-10 together, is that later results should be more likely to be<BR>similar to the first result than different from it.&nbsp; That's enough<BR>similarity to build into a game mechanic -- just coming up with the<BR>means and numbers is the hard part.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 09:58:44 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Reft sector X-boat link<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>[I wrote:]<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; It depends upon the spacetime path you take.<BR><BR>&gt; The *momentum* is the same.<BR><BR>No.&nbsp; In general relativity, "vector equality at a distance" is just as<BR>ill-defined as "simulataneity at a distance" in SR.<BR><BR>The only thing that can unequivocably be said to be the same in<BR>different parts of curved spacetime is a scalar.&nbsp; The magnitude of the<BR>momentum of the 4-vector is such a scalar, but that's just the mass<BR>(which isn't very helpful).<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; So I don't see how it makes a difference.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; It makes a difference in that the thrusters might fail "on purpose" if<BR>&gt; you are a terrorist fanatic...<BR><BR>That is a possibility either accelerating before jump or after, as I<BR>stated.&nbsp; You still need to accelerate and decelerate to get where<BR>you're going.&nbsp; Forcing people to accelerate after jump isn't going to<BR>save anyone from terrorist attack.<BR><BR>Anyway, everyone knows that terrorists use near-C rocks and there's<BR>nothing the planet can do about it...<BR><BR>Of course, the fact that it's no use doesn't necessarily mean that a<BR>government won't impose such restrictions.&nbsp; In fact, it could be<BR>interesting if a captain jumps into a system with the standard exit<BR>speed for most efficient turnover, and gets fined heavily for<BR>violating local traffic protocols and thoroughly investigated for<BR>potential terrorist activity.&nbsp; Oops, better do more research into<BR>local customs and laws next time.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Ask Marc. But my money is on "D" being "1d6".<BR><BR>That's good enough for me, it makes reasonable sense (and on<BR>reflection, D=Diameter doesn't).<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 10:02:35 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: KB3 Question: whiny<BR><BR>trentfs@ix.netcom.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; On the other hand, I like the KB3 Static Target Numbers, since they<BR>&gt; remove my stricken dice-luck from the equation.&nbsp; Would it be too<BR>&gt; terribly damaging to the system if the GM just used these numbers<BR>&gt; all the time instead of rolling for every task?<BR><BR>Not really, from my analysis.&nbsp; "Measuring success" gets a bit ugly but<BR>I never liked that aspect anyway.&nbsp; The influence of chance drops by<BR>about 30%, so that skills are relatively more important.<BR><BR>Another alternative: You could always make the players roll for<BR>Difficulty instead -- the dice don't care who's rolling them.&nbsp; Well,<BR>in your case they might, but having the players roll them is all the<BR>better in your case, isn't it?&nbsp; :^)<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:12:49 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: KB3 Question: whiny<BR><BR>trentfs@ix.netcom.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Consider a group of 6 players, each of them simultaneously performing some kind of task.&nbsp; The players are making one roll apiece, same as they've always done, but now, instead of making zero rolls, the GM makes 6 rolls.&nbsp; Multiply this by every action in an entire session, and the GM is quite likely making hundreds of die-rolls.<BR><BR>Gotch ya.&nbsp; I used to think this too (before I started playing with D6 in Star Wars), but it really does not add significantly to the game.<BR><BR>Think about it.&nbsp; Whenever a PC does something--a task, you tell the player to roll, he rolls, then you look at the result, playing out what happens.&nbsp; It really doesn't take that much more time (hardly any) to have the player roll, and you roll against him.<BR><BR>Now, if you've got all 6 characters rolling for the same thing (which I don't think comes up that often--maybe in some type of "perception" roll to see if the party notices anything as they pass through a place where they could gain information if they roll right), what you could do is have each player roll--and you just roll one time.&nbsp; Everybody goes against the same difficulty.<BR><BR>Ex:&nbsp; The 6 PCs are walking though a starport, and there is a listing on the news monitor that might get somebody's attention.&nbsp; If they had the info from this news story, it would help them out a bit in the adventure.<BR><BR>Here's how I'd play this....<BR><BR><BR><BR>I think the check to see if any of the PCs notice the news monitor is an attribute check, based on Int.&nbsp; The news monitors are fairly large and well spaced around this section of the starport (kind of like flight listings at an airport), but a person's selective perception tends to tune out things like this--a person won't notice what's playing on the monitors unless they are looking for something specific, or something catches their attention as they walk through (which is what we're rolling to find out).&nbsp; I'd give this a Difficult difficulty.&nbsp; (Since it's an attribute check, each PC is going to roll 1D, and they can use their Int to reduce the difficulty.)<BR><BR>I think I'd go ahead and roll the Difficulty throw first, behind my screen.&nbsp; Difficult is 3D.&nbsp; The players wouldn't know anything at this point--just that I'm rolling dice behind the screen and they're walking through the starport back to their ship.<BR><BR>(I'll really roll this now)&nbsp; My result is 11.<BR><BR>Then, I'd look up over the screen and say, "Alright, you guys are walking through the starport.&nbsp; Everybody give me an Int check."<BR><BR>The players (having played KB3 for most of their lives now....knowing the system by heart!) know that an attribute check is basically a 1D throw unless you've got a skill that will help you out.&nbsp; Since I can't think of a Traveller skill right now that would help you to "notice something", I'll say that none of the PCs have a skill--so the throw defaults to 1D.<BR><BR>At my request, everybody throws their die.&nbsp; "Henry, what's your character's Int?"&nbsp; He tells me, I look at the throw, subtracting his Int from 11.&nbsp; If he noticed the news story, I'd tell him about it.&nbsp; If he didn't, I wouldn't say anything and move on to the next guy.<BR><BR>If I was a good GM, I'd have everybody's stats in my GM notebook, and all I'd have to do is have everyone roll 1D (they know not what for) and look in my book.&nbsp; If anybody made the throw, I would tell them.&nbsp; If nobody made the throw, I wouldn't explain what that throw was for, and we'd keep on going.<BR><BR>AND...since only one person needs to notice the news story (he would draw the other's attention to it automatically), I'd go down the line of PCs in initiative order (or highest Int first...or in order of their placement on the map...or some kind of logical order like that), stopping when one made the throw.<BR><BR>With 6 chances to make it, chances are I wouldn't go through that many before somebody did notice it.<BR><BR><BR><BR>I think the KB3 system is a little foreign to some people with the opposed rolls mechanism--but, as you can see, I don't think what I've described here would take longer than any other way of playing Traveller.&nbsp; It seems about the same to me.<BR><BR>Believe me:&nbsp; You should be able to tell, from the rules I'm attracted to and comments I make, that I like simple, fast paced game mechanics that KEEP THE GAME MOVING.&nbsp; I don't want to get bogged down in modifiers and figuring out what I have to roll (and, I'll tell you, KB3 is A LOT faster system than the new "target number" based d20 system in D&amp;D3).<BR><BR>If I believed that KB3 would slow a game down, or be unweildy to manage, I wouldn't like it.<BR><BR>KB3 is so simple...<BR><BR>....A player can look at his skill and tell instantly how many dice he needs to roll.<BR><BR>....A GM will learn, within about 5 seconds, that the difficulties are 1D, 2D, 3D, 4D, 5D, and 6D.<BR><BR>....the E-Die is simple:&nbsp; a "1" you take away all odd numbers in front of you...a "6" you double all even dice.<BR><BR>....With the throw completed, a player need only look at his Stat and he can tell *how well* he did on that throw<BR><BR>....You don't even have to look up "official" governing stats for skills in the game book--just pick the stat most appropriate to the situation!<BR><BR><BR>I think KB3 is very, very simple and playable.&nbsp; I also think it does a good job of making skills mean something in the game--and I think that the role stats play in measuring a throw makes them a valuable part of the game.<BR><BR>I also think that there might be some resistence to KB3 because it is new--and a change from previous Traveller rules (but, so was MT when it came out!&nbsp; So was TNE!&nbsp; So was the T4 system--all of these were radically different systems from what was used before).<BR><BR>But, in the final analysis, you've got to please yourself.&nbsp; Give KB3 a try or not...the most important thing is that you and your players enjoy your game sessions.&nbsp; If KB3 won't increase the fun you have in a Traveller game, then don't use it.<BR><BR>I like it because KB3 is a great task system for a game I really like (CT), and it allows me to pick and choose equipment/weapons/armor, rules, task throws, etc from other editions of Traveller with easy, easy coversion (i.e.&nbsp; if I see a Simple MT task roll or an easy T4 task throw, I just throw the same task roll--Easy--using the KB3 rules.&nbsp; No conversion need to be done to the task roll.)<BR><BR><BR>&gt; On the other hand, I like the KB3 Static Target Numbers, since they remove my stricken dice-luck from the equation.&nbsp; Would it be too terribly damaging to the system if the GM just used these numbers all the time instead of rolling for every task?<BR><BR>Very damaging?&nbsp; No.<BR><BR>But, you'll be depriving the players the "fun" of the E-Die working in their favor.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; Is the randomization of the difficulty table more a necessary, integral part of the system or a colorful matter of taste?<BR><BR>I think, as long as you were consistent, you could easily use KB3, all the time, with static target numbers.<BR><BR>I'm starting to think this should be an optional rule in KB3--giving GMs choice to go either way.<BR><BR>I'll have to do some calculations on the best static numbers to use (but the MT ones are good for use right now).<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; I considered myself lucky if everybody showed up with their characters (and kept back-up copies in case they didn't)!<BR><BR>Ooohhhh!&nbsp; You let them take their characters out of your house!<BR><BR>I did that, long ago...but too many times we were waiting for someone to run home and get it.<BR><BR>I keep all the characters with my game stuff.&nbsp; If the players want, THEY can make back up copies to take home--but the original stays with me.<BR><BR>And, this lets me tinker, too, in between games.&nbsp; I can check on things in between sessions that I don't want to bog the game down with during play.&nbsp; I'll spot check weight and encumbrance, for instance, in between games.&nbsp; If there is any change to be made, I'll do it and make a note to inform the player at the beginning of the next game, "Your character is encumbered unless you drop something).<BR><BR>Anyway...nice chat!<BR><BR>You've just effected KB3...in that I'm going to put some work into some good, working static target numbers to use as an option (or in those situations were the GM is rolling quickly, by himself, behind his screen).<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 18:14:47 -0500<BR>From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>Subject: Re: Shannara (was Re: DUNE Messiah!)<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden wrote:<BR>&gt;I don't know it about being a LotR knock off.&nbsp; I started "The Hobbit", and it was<BR>&gt;way too kiddie-fied for me.&nbsp; It was much more "fairy tale fantasy" than typical<BR>&gt;sword &amp; sorcery fantasy (reminded me of that stupid movie Tom Cruise and Ridley<BR>&gt;Scott made called "Legend"--looked cool, but was too much of a fairy tale to<BR>&gt;interest me).<BR><BR>I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe 'The Hobbit' was written as a children's book.&nbsp; 'The Lord of the Rings,' however, was not.&nbsp; Although both sex and religion are conspicuously absent, LotR is unbelievably good, not just as a story, but also on a deep down fundamental-mythological level.&nbsp; For all the talk of George Lucas reinterpreting mythology for the modern age with 'Star Wars,' Tolkein had already done the same thing -- only much better -- decades earlier.&nbsp; After all, Lucas was just an imaginative film-school grad who'd read Joe Campbell, whereas Tolkein had a lifetime's familiarity with the subject through being a prof of Old/Middle English literature (aside: the ME edition of 'Sir Gawain &amp; the Green Knight I read in college was edited by J.R.R. Tolkein, pre-fame).<BR><BR>That said, although there is a lot of action and suspense, LotR is by no means "swords and sorcery" fantasy in the mode of Howard, Leiber, or de Camp -- which is why Gary Gygax claims he never liked Tolkein (too much high culture, not enough sex &amp; violence).<BR><BR>Oh yeah, one last thing.&nbsp; Although I loved it when I read it as a Jr. High-er, in retrospect 'The Sword of Shannara' is a painfully obvious Tolkein rip-off, made even worse by the fact that Terry Brooks may not have even been consciously aware he was doing it (meaning, Tolkein was so resonant and influential that his structure/characters just seemed naturally "the way fantasy should be").&nbsp; For an Original fantasy (published around the same time) try the 4-volume 'Book of the New Sun' by Gene Wolfe (actually, I think there was a 5th volume added on later, but I haven't read it).<BR><BR>Trent<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 18:19:39 -0500<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Cargo Cults<BR><BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt;In mail you write:<BR>&gt; &gt; shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson) puts into the Ether:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;on their front page. He did however, get us out of Vietnam!!!!<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; ObTrav: by 1105, how much of a backwater does a place have to be<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;before the locals start trusting the Impies? :&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; This brings the "Cargo Cult" concept to mind.<BR>&gt; &gt; I'm sure that some Impie&nbsp; bcrat has written several volumes of rules &amp; <BR>&gt; regs<BR>&gt; &gt; on why the Imperial Military (including IISS) is required to discourage <BR>&gt; the<BR>&gt; &gt; formation of such cults.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; I'm also sure that the formation of such cults is SOP in the IISS &amp; IN<BR>&gt; &gt; operating at the fringes of explored space.<BR>&gt;I think you are a bit confused regarding Cargo Cults. They weren't<BR>&gt;encouraged in any way by the military personnel. Rather, they were an<BR>&gt;attempt by the natives to explain everything that happened.<BR><BR>No confusion.&nbsp; I figured that when you are out on the fringe, having <BR>minor-divinity<BR>status can help.&nbsp; Especially when you are multiple Jump-2s or Jump-3s from <BR>the nearest<BR>Class E starport.<BR><BR><BR>- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>"Blend 'B', meanwhile, is a PROUD blend, defiant yet petulant...a blend<BR>that grabs you, shakes you by the collar and cries, 'ACCEPT me, damn you,<BR>or turn me away-BUT FOR GOD'S SAKE DON'T POLLUTE ME WITH NON-DAIRY<BR>CREAMER!'" - Tripp Biscuit while coffee tasting.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:20:55 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks<BR><BR>Timothy Little wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; I think most GMs look down at the dice, see a high number or a<BR>&gt; &gt; Spectacular Success or (in the case of KB3) a Greater Success, and<BR>&gt; &gt; say, "Hey!&nbsp; You aced that roll!&nbsp; I guess your character is in top<BR>&gt; &gt; form today!"<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Yes, that's true.&nbsp; Only they hardly ever actually follow that thought<BR>&gt; to its conclusion.&nbsp; If you're in top form today, then *all* your rolls<BR>&gt; should have bonuses, compared to days when you're in average form.<BR><BR>So...in this example...after something in the game has made you decide that a<BR>player is in "top form"&nbsp; (say, maybe he just made a great roll, and you want to<BR>mirror that in other rolls throughout the session), then just give the PC a bonus<BR>modifier from that point on.<BR><BR>"Wow, Smitty!&nbsp; You aced that roll!&nbsp; I guess you're in top form today.&nbsp; Tell ya<BR>what...how 'bout I give you a +2 bonus DM on all your rolls for tonight!"<BR><BR>It seems to me that would solve your delimma.&nbsp; The +2 bonus would be "persistent"<BR>for as long as you want it to be&nbsp; (maybe, even with the +2, the PC really bricks a<BR>roll later in the game--and so you change your mind then, telling him that he now<BR>has to live with a -3 for the rest of the session!)<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 18:35:18 -0500<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Books to Traveller: Your Thoughts?<BR><BR>Somewhere around, I have a complete Dushau Trilogy, by Jacqueline<BR>Lichtenberg.&nbsp; One thing about Lichtenberg's writing that tends to irk me<BR>slightly is the advanced mysticism that runs through it (not just Dushau,<BR>Sime~Gen, too); however, it's reasonably easy to discount it and enjoy the<BR>books anyway.<BR><BR>At any rate, I recently refinished this series, and was wondering if others<BR>have read it.&nbsp; If so...<BR><BR>Do you feel that this series qualifies as 'Travelleresque'?<BR><BR>Do you feel that the abilities of the Oliat, as described, can map into<BR>Traveller-style psionics?<BR><BR>Might a colonization effort by any of the major races (perhaps the Zhodani<BR>are most probable) be based around the activities of Oliat-like teams?<BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>(Ask me via email about the ILink message network!)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:31:52 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Task persistence (was Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks)<BR><BR>Timothy Little wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; That's why I said "near" certain :^) There's still the odds of<BR>&gt; slipping up.<BR><BR>Maybe you should use a system with a narrow variance to task throws....<BR><BR>Something like (off the top of my head) using "categories" which describe the<BR>"mood" of the character (or the mysterious unseen conditions that work for or<BR>against him)<BR><BR>If a player is really "focused" for instance, maybe he only rolls 1D, limiting his<BR>outcomes.<BR><BR>If a player is in the middle of whatever persistent factor you are trying to<BR>measure is, then maybe he's rolling 2D + mods.<BR><BR>If a player is "way out there" today, or his persistent factors are many and<BR>varied, maybe you should put him in the 3D + mods category.<BR><BR><BR>If you put some thinking into this line of thought, you could come up with a system<BR>where mods stay the same, but the randomness (the dice your throw) can get wider or<BR>narrower, depending on the persistent factors.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Another way of doing this (and this really might be something you like) is using a<BR>"difficulty category modifier".<BR><BR>Here's how it would work.&nbsp; You'd take a game system (let's say, KB3 since that's<BR>the topic that started all of this).&nbsp; The "persistence factors" in the game will<BR>modify the difficulty level.&nbsp; If a guy's got conditions going for him, he gets -1<BR>difficutly level to his throws all night.&nbsp; If the dude's got his persistence<BR>factors against him, then maybe he gets +1 to his difficulty levels all night.<BR><BR>That way, you are shifting results of task throw based on a consistent<BR>modifier...but there is still some randomness to the task at hand.<BR><BR>What do you think of that?<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 18:36:02 -0500<BR>From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>Subject: Re: Task persistence (was Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks)<BR><BR>Timothy Little wrote:<BR><A quote to much too -- posts several over spread stuff, of bunch><BR><BR>It sounds to me like your ideal system would have each succeeding task in a series of related tasks become less and less random.&nbsp; Whatever 'seemingly random' factors were represented by the first die-roll will, to some degree, affect later die rolls as well.&nbsp; How about something like this:<BR><BR>First time the character performs a task of Type X, roll the task as normal, but with 2 different color dice.&nbsp; One is the 'circumstance' die, one is the 'luck' die.&nbsp; From there on, all subsequent tasks of Type X will roll a new luck die but carry over the already-established circumstance die-value.&nbsp; When the original circumstances have sufficiently changed (due to time passing, change of location, or an active attempt by the player to alter the circumstances&nbsp; (requiring something similar to an MT 'Determination' test)) the process starts anew with a fresh circumstance die.<BR><BR>I've been basing this on a 2D system, since that's what I use, but it would probably work even better with a 3+D system, since you could customize to taste the balance of Luck v Circumstance.<BR><BR>Is this the kind of thing you had in mind?<BR><BR>Trent<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:48:35 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Cargo Cults (and Son of Santanocheev!)<BR><BR>Mark Urbin wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; No confusion.&nbsp; I figured that when you are out on the fringe, having<BR>&gt; minor-divinity<BR>&gt; status can help.&nbsp; Especially when you are multiple Jump-2s or Jump-3s from<BR>&gt; the nearest<BR>&gt; Class E starport.<BR><BR>At which point, we bring back the "Son of Santanocheev" thread from<BR>about this time last year:<BR><BR>**begin repost [I posted this (with quoted text from Glenn Goffin and<BR>Kelly St. Clair) on 30 Dec 99]**<BR><BR>"Kelly St.Clair" wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; On Thu, 30 Dec 1999 12:08:09 -0800 (PST), Glenn Goffin &lt;gmgoffin@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;I like this son of Santanocheev thread.&nbsp; Here's how I<BR>&gt; &gt;might handle it:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Imperial Navy Headquarters<BR>&gt; &gt;Regina/Regina<BR>&gt; &gt;037-1108<BR>&gt; &gt;0745 hrs<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;"Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for coming.&nbsp; First<BR>&gt; &gt;picture, please.&nbsp; This is Captain Roderick<BR>&gt; &gt;Santanocheev, Imperial Navy, commanding the INS<BR>&gt; &gt;Stalking Cheetah, attached to 608 Squadron of the<BR>&gt; &gt;193rd Fleet.&nbsp; Yes, he is the oldest son of Admiral<BR>&gt; &gt;Santanocheev.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "They worship the man... like a god."<BR><BR>"His ideas, methods, became... unsound."<BR><BR>**insert original Glenn Goffin post material**<BR><BR>"When the fleet ordered him to stand down upon<BR>execution of the armistice agreement between the<BR>Imperium and Outworld Coalition, Captain Santanocheev<BR>refused, stating that the armistice was a sell-out of<BR>the citizens of the Marches.&nbsp; Next picture.&nbsp; He jumped<BR>with his ship and another cruiser of his squadron, the<BR>Flying Jaguar.&nbsp; This picture is the Cheetah.&nbsp; <BR><BR>"Next picture.&nbsp; Here is his last message to the fleet,<BR>stating that he was taking the war back to the<BR>Zhodanis, and concluding 'I shall return.'<BR><BR>"The Zhodanis have advised us that their forces in the<BR>Demilitarized Zone have recently been attacked by two<BR>Imperial Navy cruisers that refused to acknowledge<BR>transmission of the armistice agreement.&nbsp; Zhodani<BR>sensor records -- next picture please -- have allowed<BR>us to identify these ships as the Cheetah and Jaguar.<BR><BR>**end insertion of original Glenn Goffin post material**<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;"Your mission is to get to Captain Santanocheev first<BR>&gt; &gt;and terminate his command.&nbsp; With extreme prejudice,<BR>&gt; &gt;you understand?&nbsp; We don't have the resources or,<BR>&gt; &gt;frankly, the political will, to send a fleet after<BR>&gt; &gt;him, and the Zhodanis may well believe that a fleet<BR>&gt; &gt;incursion is actually an act of aggression against<BR>&gt; &gt;them.&nbsp; So your Emperor is relying on you to keep the<BR>&gt; &gt;peace.&nbsp; Good luck."<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "I wanted a mission, and for my sins they gave me one. Brought it up to me<BR>&gt; like room service. It was a real choice mission, and when it was over, I'd<BR>&gt; never want another."<BR><BR>"I was being ferried toward the border in an IISS Type S courier, a type<BR>of tin can with a jump drive, pretty common sight in the Marches...."<BR><BR>**end repost, cue Doors CD**<BR><BR>We _need_ more threads like that on the TML!<BR><BR>- -- <BR>AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 19:14:52 -0500<BR>From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>Subject: Re: Task persistence (was Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks)<BR><BR>Another possible system, more mathematically complicated but also more in-line with the originally stated desire:<BR><BR>The first task roll of Type X is made normally.&nbsp; Each additional roll of type X is also rolled normally, but the result is averaged with the previous rolls.&nbsp; Thus, chance plays less and less of a role -- if you've attempted to pick nine locks in the same building, you should have a pretty good idea what you're up against when you go to try lock #10.<BR><BR>The main problem with either of these systems would be defining exactly how broad a task type is and how long circumstances persist.&nbsp; Too narrow task types and you've got a record-keeping nightmare, too short circumstance limits and you've got a uselessly complicated system (since it would probably only affect 1 or 2 rolls each time); but too broad with either and you've got the potential (based on the initial throws) of characters becoming super-powered (or permanently cursed) right from the outset.<BR><BR>Trent<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 19:20:15 -0500<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: H&amp;E The End<BR><BR>On Tue, 19 Dec 2000 21:19:04 -0500 (EST),<BR>david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Doug wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Perhaps Sylea Downport or Freelance Traveller could take over the<BR>&gt;&gt;hosting?<BR><BR>&gt;I thought FT _was_ one of the mirrors??<BR><BR>Nope - I just link to the copy that's accessible from the Downport link.<BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>(Ask me via email about the ILink message network!)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:01:50 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>From: Jesse Degraff &lt;jedegraf@cisco.com&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&gt;ROFLMAOASMCW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<BR>&gt;Thanks Legate, that made a shitty morning into a great day :)<BR>&gt;Jesse<BR><BR><BR>Jesse,<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Due to the fact that many of the members of this list consider<BR>everything I post as an insult, I would like to suggest, if you do not mind,<BR>that is, that you forget I ever posted this in the first place.&nbsp; It seems<BR>that they consider anything I post an insult, so I will most likely no<BR>longer be posting here.&nbsp; And, when someone sends me, via private email,<BR>directions on how to remove myself from this mailing list, I will remove<BR>myself from this mailing list &amp; then burn my entire collection of Traveller<BR>items.&nbsp; Please do not ask me to send any items to anyone, as I would not<BR>want to insult anyone by sending them something through the USPS.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3441<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yb04.mx.aol.com (rly-yb04.mail.aol.com [172.18.146.4]) by air-yb05.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 19:21:25 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yb04.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 19:20:31 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id TAA66309;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 19:19:39 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Wed, 20 Dec 2000 19:19:34 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id TAA66269<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 19:19:34 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 19:19:34 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012210019.TAA66269@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3441<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></A></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Wednesday, December 20 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3442<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: MREs again?!?&nbsp; Awww, Mom!!! [OT] [IAJS]*<BR>Re: Shannara (was Re: DUNE Messiah!)<BR>flickering black globes useless?<BR>Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: Traveller related (really!!)<BR>RE: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: Shannara (was Re: DUNE Messiah!)<BR>Re: H&amp;E The End<BR>Re: Noble vs. military rank<BR>Re: DUNE Messiah!<BR>Re: The New Sun<BR>Tasks with persistent causes<BR>Re: Noble vs. military rank<BR>Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR>Re: Task persistence (was Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks)<BR>Re: Task persistence (was Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks)<BR>Re: Low standards<BR>Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR>Re: Warrant Officers (longish)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 18:23:11 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: MREs again?!?&nbsp; Awww, Mom!!! [OT] [IAJS]*<BR><BR>Jonathan McDermott wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:09:09 -0700<BR>&gt; &gt;From: Steve Charlton &lt;steve.charlton@ifsna.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Subject: MREs again?!?&nbsp; Awww, Mom!!!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Between this and the parent post be Leonard, honestly, for a brief moment I<BR>&gt; saw, clearly on my screen, 'near-C-rats'.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; So either this is in reference to food that is almost, but not quite,<BR>&gt; entirely unlike overprocessed hyperpreserved food analogues, or there are<BR>&gt; some rodents out there trying to determine just how much they'll travel<BR>&gt; through time if they jump at 99% of the speed of light.<BR><BR>Actually, it's probably linked to the Ravioli Can Railgun thread of a<BR>couple of years ago....<BR><BR>Sadly, that thread is enshrined on the hard drive of a<BR>no-longer-functioning computer.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:22:29 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Shannara (was Re: DUNE Messiah!)<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Largely because the man can't write his own stuff. "Sword" is Lord of the<BR>&gt; &gt; Rings with the serial numbers filed off. I actually got through #2, then gave<BR>&gt; &gt; up halfway through #3 because he started breaking every rule of good writing<BR>&gt; &gt; except the ones about spelling...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I don't know it about being a LotR knock off.&nbsp; I started "The Hobbit", and it was<BR>&gt; way too kiddie-fied for me.&nbsp; It was much more "fairy tale fantasy" than typical<BR>&gt; sword &amp; sorcery fantasy (reminded me of that stupid movie Tom Cruise and Ridley<BR>&gt; Scott made called "Legend"--looked cool, but was too much of a fairy tale to<BR>&gt; interest me).<BR><BR>The Hobbit _is_ a childrens book. <BR><BR>Lord of the Rings, most emphatically, is not.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 16:28:52 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: flickering black globes useless?<BR><BR>I did some computation with black globes, and discovered that a black globe<BR>in flicker mode seems to be just a disadvantage most of the time.<BR><BR>Consider a 50% flicker rate black globe.<BR>It absorbs 50% of attacks.&nbsp; This is good.&nbsp; However, it also reduces <BR>acceleration by 50%, which reduces your evasive ability by 75%, with the<BR>result that unless you're at ranges too close to dodge, you get hit by twice<BR>as many shots after the black globe it applied.&nbsp; This seems bad...<BR><BR>Thoughts?&nbsp; Is my math faulty?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 00:29 +0000 (GMT)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;200012200444.WAA07878@pompano.pcola.gulf.net&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>&gt;Come to Oregon, and we will let you shoot machineguns.<BR><BR>Oooh... you tempt me, you really do :-)<BR><BR>Now to figure out a way to raise the airfare &amp; find somewhere to stay <BR>and...<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 00:29 +0000 (GMT)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller related (really!!)<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;4.2.0.58.20001219203858.00acbb00@24.2.2.70&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>As a former member of the British Army, perhaps I'd better step in here <BR>:-)<BR><BR>We did have one Royal 'genuine' officer in the 1970s (as opposted to the <BR>Royal honorary colonels-in-chief the place is littered with!). He made it <BR>through Sandhurst (equivalent of West Point, for those who don't know) and <BR>was promoted through officer ranks in the normal way. Reached Lieutenant <BR>Colonel and left because he was not, for security reasons, permitted to <BR>lead his regiment on a tour of Northern Ireland.<BR><BR>The offspring of other members of the nobility are treated like any other <BR>officer. Noble titles are normally used, however; so you might be Captain <BR>the Earl of Crewe or whatever... but you would have to take orders from <BR>Colonel Jack Dustman's Son.<BR><BR>Oh, and Warrant Officers... as someone pointed out, they hold a Warrant <BR>rather than a Commission from The Queen. The actual ranks are Warrant <BR>Officer Class One &amp; Warrant Officer Class Two. Both Sergeant Major and <BR>Regimental Sergeant Major are appointments normally held by people who are <BR>WO1 or WO2. (WO1 is the more senior, by the way.)<BR><BR>A WO1 is dressed as an officer of his regiment or corps except for the <BR>badge of rank (the Royal arms embroidered in full colour, rather smart!). <BR>A WO2 dresses in the same manner as Sergeants, with the rank badge of a <BR>crown on the forearm. Other Sergeants wear their stripes on the upper arm.<BR><BR>[Ooops. Will anyone guess that my other passion apart from roleplaying is <BR>the study of uniforms and medals!)<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR>Former Sergeant, the 22nd (Cheshire) Regiment.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 16:30:52 -0800<BR>From: "Jesse Degraff" &lt;jedegraf@cisco.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>Somebody didn't like that list post?&nbsp; Sheesh!&nbsp; No sense of humor!&nbsp; Leonard,<BR>was that you???<BR><BR>Jesse<BR><BR>"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety<BR>deserve neither liberty nor safety."<BR>- -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759<BR><BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Legate Legion<BR>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 4:02 PM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground<BR>&gt; Forces))<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; From: Jesse Degraff &lt;jedegraf@cisco.com&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;ROFLMAOASMCW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<BR>&gt; &gt;Thanks Legate, that made a shitty morning into a great day :)<BR>&gt; &gt;Jesse<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Jesse,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Due to the fact that many of the members of this list consider<BR>&gt; everything I post as an insult, I would like to suggest, if you<BR>&gt; do not mind,<BR>&gt; that is, that you forget I ever posted this in the first place.&nbsp; It seems<BR>&gt; that they consider anything I post an insult, so I will most likely no<BR>&gt; longer be posting here.&nbsp; And, when someone sends me, via private email,<BR>&gt; directions on how to remove myself from this mailing list, I will remove<BR>&gt; myself from this mailing list &amp; then burn my entire collection of<BR>&gt; Traveller<BR>&gt; items.&nbsp; Please do not ask me to send any items to anyone, as I would not<BR>&gt; want to insult anyone by sending them something through the USPS.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>&gt; ICQ # 8973001<BR>&gt; legate@futureone.com<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>&gt; places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>&gt; passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>&gt; USS Excaliber.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 00:39:40 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Shannara (was Re: DUNE Messiah!)<BR><BR>At 19:19 -0500 20/12/00,&nbsp; trentfs@ix.netcom.com wrote:<BR>&gt;Oh yeah, one last thing.&nbsp; Although I loved it when I read it as a <BR>&gt;Jr. High-er, in retrospect 'The Sword of Shannara' is a painfully <BR>&gt;obvious Tolkein rip-off, made even worse by the fact that Terry <BR>&gt;Brooks may not have even been consciously aware he was doing it <BR>&gt;(meaning, Tolkein was so resonant and influential that his <BR>&gt;structure/characters just seemed naturally "the way fantasy should <BR>&gt;be").&nbsp; For an Original fantasy (published around the same time) try <BR>&gt;the 4-volume 'Book of the New Sun' by Gene Wolfe (actually, I think <BR>&gt;there was a 5th volume added on later, but I haven't read it).<BR><BR>The Urth of the New Sun.<BR><BR>There is also a GURPS Worldbook (GURPS: New Sun) for the series which <BR>was published this time last year. It's pretty good, as was GURPS: <BR>Myth (for a very different style fantasy background based on Bungie's <BR>Game).<BR><BR>One thing pointed out in the GURPS book is that the New Sun books <BR>aren't really fantasy - rather, they are a universe where the <BR>technology is so high that it is indistinguishable from magic, and <BR>that time itself in manipulable.<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 00:41:59 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: H&amp;E The End<BR><BR>At 19:19 -0500 20/12/00,&nbsp; Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;Perhaps Sylea Downport or Freelance Traveller could take over the<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;hosting?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;I thought FT _was_ one of the mirrors??<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Nope - I just link to the copy that's accessible from the Downport link.<BR><BR>BITS has an independent mirror, linked through the Archive page. Note <BR>that this is slightly out of date as it was set for update when the <BR>'great hard-drive turns to a metal grinder' failure of 2000 happened <BR>last month.<BR><BR>Stuart, please can you send me the updates again?<BR><BR>Thanks!<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 00:52:47 GMT<BR>From: TML@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>Subject: Re: Noble vs. military rank<BR><BR>Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt; writes:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;The Warrant Officer rank was the rank she held on the _merchant_ ship the<BR>&gt;&gt;Nostromo, and the rank by which the Company referred to her at the beginning<BR>&gt;&gt;of the movie.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Okay, that makes sense... but why did the honorary rank "stick" in <BR>&gt;the 3rd and especially 4th films, even after she left the <BR>&gt;Sulaco/Marines?&nbsp; Just a lapse in continuity?<BR><BR>She never *did* leave the Marines, really - for Ripley, the events of<BR>all four films take place over no more than two or three months,<BR>subjective time. (and most of that time was at the start of "Aliens",<BR>before she'd agreed to go on the Sulaco).<BR><BR>ObTrav:&nbsp; You're kidding, right?&nbsp; Is there anyone out there who<BR>*hasn't* based a scenario on at least one of the Alien movies?&nbsp; Or, at<BR>least, quoted from them at an appropriate moment in the game?<BR><BR>Stephen<BR>(proud owner of the DVD box set - you can tell, can't you? ;-)&nbsp; )<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 00:52:54 GMT<BR>From: TML@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>Subject: Re: DUNE Messiah!<BR><BR>"James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt; writes:<BR><BR>&gt;I did the same thing with Sword of Shannara a year or two ago. Great book, <BR>&gt;too, but it gets a little off-track at the end. Anyone here ever read it?<BR><BR>I don't remember it getting off-track - I thought it copied the plot<BR>and characterisation of Lord of the Rings right through to the last<BR>chapter...<BR><BR>(I actually found myself starting to think of the characters in it as<BR>"Gandalf", "Sauron", etc rather than their proper names).<BR><BR>@@@@@<BR><BR>And in answer to Kenneth, whose later post I read after I'd written<BR>this - it's no wonder you thought The Hobbit was kiddified - it _is_ a<BR>children's book, intentionally so.&nbsp; LotR was *supposed* to be the<BR>sequel, another children's book; but about 20% of the way through it<BR>mutated in Tolkein's hands and turned into a serious, adult epic,<BR>drawing both on his studies of early English literature and mythology,<BR>and his experiences in the trenches during WW1 (the bits set in the<BR>Dead Marches and Mordor, especially).<BR><BR>The best way to read The Hobbit is either to have it given to you when<BR>you're about 10 years old, or to read it out loud to your own children<BR>(or borrow someone else's if you don't have any of your own)...<BR><BR>Stephen<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 19:59:58 -0500<BR>From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>Subject: Re: The New Sun<BR><BR>Dom Mooney wrote:<BR>&gt; One thing pointed out in the GURPS book is that the New Sun books <BR>&gt;aren't really fantasy - rather, they are a universe where the <BR>&gt;technology is so high that it is indistinguishable from magic, and <BR>&gt;that time itself in manipulable.<BR><BR>True, but the 'feel' of the books is still a lot closer to fantasy than SF (at least IMO).&nbsp; Actually, the fact that his work doesn't fit the standard (i.e. cliched) definition of 'fantasy' is that much more evidence of its originality.&nbsp; Genre traditions are meant to be ignored or subverted; anything less is hackwork.<BR><BR>Trent<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:04:36 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Tasks with persistent causes<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Have you seen a set of game mechanics in another game that you liked<BR>&gt; and thought came close to what you are looking for?<BR><BR>Thinking about it some more, I can tell you about some of the thoughts<BR>I've had that go some way toward what I want, if that would help.<BR><BR><BR>One is a system in which performance on a given task is primarily<BR>dependent on performance on previous (similar) tasks.&nbsp; Skills and<BR>stats in such a system would simply be shorthand for previous<BR>experience.<BR><BR>e.g. Aircraft skill would be a shorthand for training and experience<BR>in operation of some sort of aeroplane, helicopter, jet, glider or<BR>even model aircraft.&nbsp; It would probably be focussed primarily on a<BR>particular type or group of aircraft, and include some or all of<BR>things like maintenance, protocols, regulations, mechanical skill, and<BR>dealing with emergencies.<BR><BR>The description of such skills is intentionally very broad and vague.<BR>Any further definition is up to the player.<BR><BR>By default, all dice rolls are "sticky": however you perform on a<BR>given task is likely to be how you will perform on future instances.<BR>The more vague the history or the more broad the skill, the more<BR>variance in the roll.<BR><BR>For example: Suppose character V (for vague) has Aircraft-5, with no<BR>other detail.&nbsp; Character D (for defined) also has Aircraft-5, being a<BR>search-and-rescue helicopter pilot for 10 years and owning his own<BR>Cessna-172 which he works on in his spare time.<BR><BR>In a task to repair some (undefined) type of jet, V would have a<BR>slightly better chance than D, say +1 out of a range of 10, since<BR>there is a small chance that his background includes jet experience,<BR>while D has a background that would indicate no jet experience.<BR>Repairing a Cessna-172, D has a *much* better chance than V, and can<BR>probably do it with one hand tied behind his back or with shoddy<BR>tools.<BR><BR>Now, suppose either succeeds in repairing the jet.&nbsp; That rules out the<BR>possibility that they know nothing about jets, and so future rolls to<BR>repair jets should be at a bonus.<BR><BR>The big thing about this sort of system is that it allows characters<BR>to start out completely undefined in game-mechanical terms.&nbsp; Suppose a<BR>completely undefined character needs to land a jet by themselves and<BR>has a 10% chance of doing so without mishap.&nbsp; If they fail, it most<BR>likely means that (no surprise), they don't know how to land a jet.<BR><BR>If they succeed, it means that the PC very likely already knew how to<BR>fly a jet but just didn't have it on their character sheet.&nbsp; If they<BR>need to land a jet at some future time, their chance of doing so could<BR>easily be 90%.<BR><BR><BR>Here is where I get into the mathematical stuff I warned about<BR>earlier.<BR><BR>Let's analyse that 10% chance.&nbsp; For simplicity, it could be broken<BR>down into 2 cases:<BR><BR>A) 9% chance of randomly picking a pilot from a group of people<BR>suitable to be PCs.&nbsp; Of those, a 99% chance of success of landing<BR>successfully.<BR><BR>B) 91% chance of picking a non-pilot.&nbsp; Of those, a 1% chance of<BR>landing successfully without any mishap.<BR><BR><BR>A contributes 10 times more to the the success probability than B.&nbsp; So<BR>given that success happened, A is 10 times more likely than B.&nbsp; That<BR>is, the PC is roughly 90% likely to be a pilot.&nbsp; So they get a 90%<BR>chance on their next attempt to land.&nbsp; If the second one succeeds then<BR>it is pretty much certain that they really do know how to fly a jet<BR>and should get the full 99% chance on subsequent attempts.<BR><BR>This is an extreme example of what I mean, since most people pick<BR>whether their characters can or can't fly a jet in character creation.<BR><BR>But they don't usually choose whether their character knows how to<BR>pick a NV-217D lock fitted by a Securitech maintenance technician with<BR>aftermarket Safe-or-SOUND! alarm system in 5 minutes or less.&nbsp; They<BR>usually get Intrusion-3, and that particular task remains to be seen<BR>in the game.<BR><BR>Obviously not all people with Intrusion-3 can pick the lock under<BR>those circumstances, or you wouldn't have to roll for it.&nbsp; But if they<BR>succeed, it increases the odds that they are one of those people who<BR>can.&nbsp; There is also the fact of improvement with practice, which<BR>*adds* to that effect.<BR><BR>So if the first one succeeds, their chance of success should be<BR>greatly increased on similar tasks.&nbsp; If the first one fails, their<BR>chance will be a balance between the likelihood that they weren't able<BR>to do it in the first place, with the improvement in chance that comes<BR>with practice.<BR><BR>This applies to *all* tasks, not just binary unopposed ones.&nbsp; But<BR>that's probably enough Bayesian decision theory for today.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 19:39:05 -0500<BR>From: knightsky@juno.com<BR>Subject: Re: Noble vs. military rank<BR><BR>&gt; Poor record keeping? Perhaps Ripley was trying to seem tougher than <BR>&gt; she was<BR>&gt; in Alien3...she did land in a men's prison. Claiming to be a Marine<BR>&gt; Lietenant would do that. Resurrection? Well, the honorary rank is <BR>&gt; the least<BR>&gt; of *that* films problems :). Winona was cute, though.<BR><BR>I have to confess, I've never seen the 4th film, because that would<BR>involve admitting that there *was* a 3rd film, and I'm not ready to do<BR>that just yet.<BR><BR><BR>Perry<BR>"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>________________________________________________________________<BR>GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!<BR>Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!<BR>Join Juno today!&nbsp; For your FREE software, visit:<BR>http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:10:35 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR><BR>Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>&gt; Thoughts?&nbsp; Is my math faulty?<BR><BR>Nope.&nbsp; Acceleration over a given time is linear with distance, so the<BR>area you might be in decreases quadratically.&nbsp; So yes, if random<BR>evasion is the main thing that prevents you from being hit then a<BR>black globe is a really bad idea.<BR><BR>It would really only be useful at short range, where lightspeed delays<BR>and consequent unpredictability in position are negligible.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:34:25 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Task persistence (was Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks)<BR><BR>trentfs@ix.netcom.com wrote:<BR>&gt; Timothy Little wrote:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <A quote to much too -- posts several over spread stuff, of bunch><BR><BR>Oops :^)<BR><BR>&gt; It sounds to me like your ideal system would have each succeeding<BR>&gt; task in a series of related tasks become less and less random.<BR><BR>Yes.&nbsp; That covers it pretty well.&nbsp; However, randomness can increase<BR>again when new factors enter the picture.<BR><BR>&gt; Whatever 'seemingly random' factors were represented by the first<BR>&gt; die-roll will, to some degree, affect later die rolls as well.<BR><BR>Yes, that's the idea.&nbsp; Of course the 'circumstances' will be different<BR>for each task.&nbsp; The player can keep track of them and if they are<BR>forgotten then they can be rerolled -- no worse than task systems in<BR>which you *always* reroll.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; First time the character performs a task of Type X, roll the task as<BR>&gt; normal, but with 2 different color dice.&nbsp; One is the 'circumstance'<BR>&gt; die, one is the 'luck' die.&nbsp; From there on, all subsequent tasks of<BR>&gt; Type X will roll a new luck die but carry over the already-<BR>&gt; established circumstance die-value.<BR><BR>Yes, that would work OK if I could just sort out how to make the luck<BR>less uniform.&nbsp; Ideally luck should always each have the ability to<BR>include at least a small chance of each of success or failure, without<BR>being too granular, too complicated, or modifying the underlying<BR>system too much.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; When the original circumstances have sufficiently changed (due to<BR>&gt; time passing, change of location, or an active attempt by the player<BR>&gt; to alter the circumstances (requiring something similar to an MT<BR>&gt; 'Determination' test)) the process starts anew with a fresh<BR>&gt; circumstance die.<BR><BR>In my previous post, I talked about a "landing jet" task, where the<BR>main 'circumstance' was whether the character knew how to pilot a jet<BR>or not.&nbsp; This probably wouldn't change much over game timescales ;^)<BR><BR>But in general, yes, this is pretty similar to things I've been<BR>thinking about.&nbsp; With some GM and player interpretation this could<BR>work, though it would be nicer still if the system was built to handle<BR>it, maybe by given hints as to what the circumstance dice represent.<BR>It would work for opposed tasks, too.&nbsp; All tasks have a lot of common<BR>features in this area that can be exploited to simplify the GM's and<BR>players' work by putting them into a common framework.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; I've been basing this on a 2D system, since that's what I use, but<BR>&gt;it would probably work even better with a 3+D system, since you could<BR>&gt;customize to taste the balance of Luck v Circumstance.<BR><BR>I prefer to keep down the number of dice and the computations<BR>involving them.&nbsp; 3 dice seems about the most I want to add together,<BR>although I could probably get used to 4.&nbsp; The flexibility of a 1-3,<BR>2-2 or 3-1 split would probably be worth it.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:53:14 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Task persistence (was Re: KB3 Question: Stat only tasks)<BR><BR>trentfs@ix.netcom.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; The first task roll of Type X is made normally.&nbsp; Each additional<BR>&gt; roll of type X is also rolled normally, but the result is averaged<BR>&gt; with the previous rolls.<BR><BR>I prefer the 'circumstances dice' method.&nbsp; This one is indeed too<BR>complicated, and actually goes counter to my desires.&nbsp; This one<BR>regresses to the mean.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; Thus, chance plays less and less of a role -- if you've attempted<BR>&gt;to pick nine locks in the same building, you should have a pretty<BR>&gt;good idea what you're up against when you go to try lock #10.<BR><BR>In fact, nothing plays much of a role.&nbsp; By lock #10 the only thing<BR>that determines your success is your skill and the difficulty.&nbsp; The<BR>initial throw has become irrelevant.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; but too broad with either and you've got the potential (based on the<BR>&gt; initial throws) of characters becoming super-powered (or permanently<BR>&gt; cursed) right from the outset.<BR><BR>No.<BR><BR>3, 4, 6, 8, 5, 9, 10, 12 -&gt; result is as if rolling 7.125<BR>12, 12, 7, 3, 9, 6, 7, 8 -&gt; result is as if rolling 8<BR><BR>The initial rolls have become almost irrelevant, averaged out over 8<BR>throws.&nbsp; It's the exact opposite of what I was hoping to achieve.<BR><BR><BR>Actually, what you mean by "super powered" or "permanently cursed" is<BR>probably exactly what I want.<BR><BR>If you have a character with Intrusion-3 who consistently fails on<BR>LockSmart locks, it just means she doesn't know how to beat them (and<BR>hasn't learned through practice).&nbsp; You might consider that "cursed",<BR>but it isn't luck so that would be a misleading term.&nbsp; She is almost<BR>certainly better at other aspects of the Intrusion skill.&nbsp; She could<BR>even fail on all types of electronic lock but be good at mechanical<BR>locks.&nbsp; Or even poor at all locks in general but good at<BR>illegitimately getting into places by other means.<BR><BR>If she consistently beats LockSmart locks, that's what you would<BR>expect if someone has done a pretty good study on them and plenty of<BR>practice.&nbsp; She could even be expert at all electronic locks.&nbsp; Or even<BR>*all* locks, regardless of type.&nbsp; Not "super powered", since she'll be<BR>worse at other aspects covered by the Intrusion skill.<BR><BR>In fact, that's the sort of thing I'd like to see, rather than just<BR>the rather bland and undescriptive "Intrusion-3".&nbsp; So I'd say that<BR>what I want to see in a task system, is something you would find<BR>undesirable.&nbsp; That's hardly surprising; tastes differ.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 18:49:15 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>Okay, what the hell, a family language violation warning for my <BR>vaguely on-topic discussion of sci-fi movies coming up below:<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>At 2:26 PM -0800 12/20/00, Russell Bornschlegel wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; The idea that Winona be given any valid role in an Aliens movie other<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; than entertaining the Colonial Marines with her now well-known<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; ping-pong ball trick is a disgrace.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Awwww, come on. She's decorative, isn't that sufficient?<BR><BR>I can't imagine what she was meant to decorate.&nbsp; Martha Stewart's <BR>Scout/Courier?&nbsp; Oh, sure, she did manage to make Brad Dourif ("It is <BR>through weaselly eyes alone I keep my career in motion") look like a <BR>competent actor and Ron Perlman a charismatic one, by comparison. <BR>Maybe that was the goal?<BR><BR>Is Winona, with all the screen presence of wet sawdust in a light <BR>breeze, actually meant to be sexy?&nbsp; I mean, clearly Sigourney Weaver <BR>is simply far too *old* for the target audience to be able to jerk <BR>off to; but I wasn't sure if the designated masturbatory focus was <BR>"Call" or the spring-loaded guns that "Christie" carried.<BR><BR>Thank god Chow Yun Fat didn't get that part.&nbsp; The movie really called <BR>for Jackie Chan, if they did need to get a chic HK action star used <BR>to comic-book production values.<BR><BR>Come on, admit it, you guys, you WANT to see Jackie take on a couple <BR>Aliens.&nbsp; It'd be great!<BR><BR>Once Ken Bearden finishes off his current movie and gets money hurled <BR>at him by desperately adoring producers and work begins on the <BR>Traveller Movie, what role should Jackie be cast in, anyway? <BR>Director of SolSec?<BR><BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 13:01:40 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR><BR>Timothy Little wrote:<BR>[regarding black globe uselessness]<BR>&gt; Nope.&nbsp; Acceleration over a given time is linear with distance, so the<BR>&gt; area you might be in decreases quadratically.<BR><BR>I was forgetting meson guns, where you have to know the exact distance<BR>to the target, not just the line.&nbsp; For meson guns the black globe<BR>decreases evasion volume cubically, so it's even worse against them<BR>than it is against lasers and other beams.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 20:55:25 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Warrant Officers (longish)<BR><BR>Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; At 9:05 AM -0800 12/20/00, AuricTech Shipyards wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;Note that warrant officers in the US military, unlike those in<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; {wholesale snip}<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Thanks; that actually helps a lot.<BR><BR>You're welcome.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; For the British(-style) militaries, though, I'm still not at all<BR>&gt; clear what the difference is between a W.O. and top NCOs/junior<BR>&gt; officers aside from the human resources issue of holding a warrant.<BR>&gt; What's the big deal?<BR><BR>The issue, as I see it, is one of the source of authority.&nbsp; The military<BR>has four general classes of personnel, defined by their authority to<BR>issue orders:<BR><BR>1.&nbsp; Junior enlisted soldiers, in general, have no authority to issue<BR>lawful orders.<BR><BR>2.&nbsp; Non-commissioned officers (NCOs), warrant officers, and commissioned<BR>officers all have authority to issue lawful orders.&nbsp; The difference<BR>between the three lies in the _source_ of that authority.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; a.&nbsp; Commissioned officers (such as Major Thrash) derive their<BR>authority directly from the sovereign authority.&nbsp; In other words, they<BR>are "commissioned" by the sovereign power of their nation (be that power<BR>a monarch or [as in the US] a Federal Congress) to act on their nation's<BR>behalf in matters military.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; b.&nbsp; Non-commissioned officers (such as yours truly, Sergeant First<BR>Class Groth) derive their authority from their role as agents of<BR>commissioned officers.&nbsp; In practice, this means that commissioned<BR>officers set policy, and NCOs ensure that policy is implemented and<BR>enforced.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; c.&nbsp; Warrant officers derive their authority differently.&nbsp; In the UK<BR>model (if I'm interpreting it properly), they receive a Warrant (a<BR>limited delegation of sovereign power) from the Crown; in the US model,<BR>they receive a warrant (again, a limited delegation of sovereign power)<BR>from the Executive branch (e.g., the Secretary of the Army), IAW rules<BR>enacted from the sovereign power (Congress).&nbsp; In both cases, warrant<BR>officers have authority somewhere between that of NCOs and commissioned<BR>officers.<BR><BR>In (simplified) Traveller terms, you have four groups:&nbsp; commoners<BR>(enlisted soldiers), commissioned officers (nobles), non-commissioned<BR>officers (agents of the nobles), and warrant officers (agents bearing a<BR>_limited_ ducal, archducal, or Imperial Warrant).&nbsp; While canon military<BR>ranks do not specifically include warrant officers, they do (by<BR>permitting Warrants from archdukes and the Emperor) allow the<BR>equivalent.<BR><BR>Bottom line: a warrant officer is an expert who has received limited<BR>direct authority from the sovereign power (or from its Executive<BR>agents).<BR><BR>Kenji, is this enough grease for this squeaky issue? ;-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3442<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yd02.mx.aol.com (rly-yd02.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.2]) by air-yd05.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 21:56:32 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yd02.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 21:55:57 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id VAA80081;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 21:53:43 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Wed, 20 Dec 2000 21:53:27 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id VAA80040<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 21:53:26 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 21:53:26 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012210253.VAA80040@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3442<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></A></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Thursday, December 21 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3443<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising<BR>Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising<BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>RE: Noble vs. military rank<BR>RE: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>RE: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR>Re: Warrant Officers<BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>Re: DUNE Messiah &amp; Other Books<BR>Re: Warrant Officers<BR>Re: Reft sector X-boat link<BR>Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising<BR>Re: (7) Summary - KB3 Traveller System (Playtest)<BR>Re: DUNE Messiah &amp; Other Books<BR>Re: Noble vs. military rank<BR>Re: (7) Summary - KB3 Traveller System (Playtest)<BR>Re: (7) Summary - KB3 Traveller System (Playtest)<BR>Alienage (was: Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR>Re: Warrant Officers (longish)<BR>RE: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR>Re: (7) Summary - KB3 Traveller System (Playtest)<BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 18:56:43 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising<BR><BR>&gt;From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of DespisingEach O<BR>ther in&nbsp; <BR>...<BR>&gt;The important polls (i.e. the elections) showed that the Clinton win in 92 <BR>&gt;was due to Perot splitting the right of center vote.<BR>&gt;Remember that Clinton never got a majority vote for President.&nbsp; His so <BR>&gt;called "landslide" in 96 was in the electoral college, his numbers in the <BR>&gt;popular vote were very low. Under one quarter of eligible voters were fired <BR>&gt;up enough about him to bother and vote for him.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Or about just under half of those who did vote, yes?<BR><BR>&nbsp; Ironically, there's some debate being generated here about <BR>how our recent 60% turn-out is embarrasingly low...<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 18:41:34<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising<BR><BR>At 10:58 AM 12/20/2000 PST, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;I think you are a bit confused regarding Cargo Cults. They weren't<BR>&gt;encouraged in any way by the military personnel. Rather, they were an<BR>&gt;attempt by the natives to explain everything that happened. <BR><BR>And more impotantly, to bring the Europeans back!&nbsp; I've seen photos of some<BR>of the Cargo Cult sites.. very scary.&nbsp; Complete airfields, complete with<BR>towers, windsocks, even a hanger, all built in the hopes of attracting a<BR>plane or two.<BR><BR>Read _Dream Park_ for a fun view of cargo cults.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>"There is no emoticon to express how I feel!"<BR>- -Comic Shop Guy, "The Simpsons"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 18:50:06<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>At 10:49 AM 12/20/2000 PST, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Will use Soviet-style human wave assaults.&nbsp; I always knew that the<BR>&gt;&gt; population of Los Angeles would come in handy someday..<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;And we can use Soviet style "lots and lots of not much" defenses. Hell,<BR>&gt;clobber I-5 and your route of attack goes all to hell. :-)<BR><BR>Feh.&nbsp; We just need to grab enough ground to build the Crater Lake Canal...<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 18:53:26<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Noble vs. military rank<BR><BR>At 11:05 AM 12/20/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;So... they're just different names and types of paper for the top <BR>&gt;layer of NCOs?&nbsp; Is that all?*<BR><BR>Well, in the US military, Warrant Officers occupy a nebulous region between<BR>commissioned officers and the top level NCOs.&nbsp; They recieve much of the<BR>same level of repect you give "real" officers, but can't give legal orders.<BR><BR>Most of our technical types are WOs.&nbsp; Pilots, communciations wonks..<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 18:42:05 -0800<BR>From: Jesse DeGraff &lt;jdegraff@pacbell.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>Can't help you with the airfare but I bet Mark'd put you up just like he<BR>does me :)&nbsp; He's got a very nice house with quite a bit of room.<BR><BR>Jesse<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Megan Robertson<BR>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 4:29 PM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Cc: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground<BR>&gt; Forces))<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; In-Reply-To: &lt;200012200444.WAA07878@pompano.pcola.gulf.net&gt;<BR>&gt; Greetings dear hearts.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Come to Oregon, and we will let you shoot machineguns.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Oooh... you tempt me, you really do :-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Now to figure out a way to raise the airfare &amp; find somewhere to stay<BR>&gt; and...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Hugs and kisses,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Mexal.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 19:16:50 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: RE: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR><BR>...<BR>&gt;&gt; Finally, it is Americans like *you* Legate, who create the impression in<BR>&gt;&gt; the rest of the world that all Americans are loud-mouthed, brash, boors.<BR>...<BR>&gt;I honestly think that LL just enjoys pushing peoples buttons. IMHO the <BR>&gt;best thing is just to ignore his rampant jingoistic outbursts and concentrate <BR>&gt;on the useful comments he makes. I figure if he doesn't get a rise out of <BR>&gt;people, he'll stop.<BR><BR>&nbsp; So kind of like "Clif" without the sincerity?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 16:17:39 +1300<BR>From: "Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Warrant Officers<BR><BR>On 20 Dec 2000, at 17:08, Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; At 9:05 AM -0800 12/20/00, AuricTech Shipyards wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;Note that warrant officers in the US military, unlike those in<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; {wholesale snip}<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Thanks; that actually helps a lot.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; For the British(-style) militaries, though, I'm still not at all <BR>&gt; clear what the difference is between a W.O. and top NCOs/junior <BR>&gt; officers aside from the human resources issue of holding a warrant. <BR>&gt; What's the big deal?<BR><BR>AFAIK the British model is like ours (actually the other way round), and <BR>Warrant Officers are simply the top of the NCO chain. The Navy may be different <BR>- - it certainly was in the Age of Sail, when positions like Sailing Master were <BR>held by Warrant Officers. Like the modern US Army the Navy of that period used <BR>Warrants for specialists. I think this was to make them 'officers' without <BR>putting them in the chain of command, though they could certainly give orders. <BR>I may be wrong, but this may have only been possible when they had been <BR>delegated the authority to do so by a commissioned officer.<BR><BR>- --<BR>"Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR><BR>A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 19:29:09 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; [someone wrote:]<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; jump-emergence-point-moves-at-velocity-ship-had-when-it-jumped<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; achieves all the steering objectives.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Having the exit point moving with respect to the entrance point<BR>&gt;&gt; bothers me. A *lot*.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Tsk, you know about relativity, you should know that "velocity<BR>&gt; relative to an event" is a meangless concept.&nbsp; Which frame of<BR>&gt; reference is the 'entry point' stationary in?&nbsp; Why that one and no<BR>&gt; others?<BR><BR>The frame of the ship that's making the jump, naturally. :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 22:04:14 -0600<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: DUNE Messiah &amp; Other Books<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; In retrospect, the parts about the battle were pretty good, but I didn't<BR>&gt; &gt; really like them at the time. They seemed like an annoying sidetrack <BR>&gt;when<BR>&gt; &gt; all I wanted to know was whether or not the hero (I can't remember his <BR>&gt;name<BR>&gt; &gt; at the moment) finds the sword.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I remember, clearly, that scene where the Ranger character shoots that <BR>&gt;goblin in<BR><BR>I also remember this. And, as I recall, they were gnomes.<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Next question: Have you read "The Soulforge" by Margaret Weiss?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Haven't.&nbsp; Heard it was good.&nbsp; Loved the original DragonLance trilogy, and <BR>&gt;the<BR>&gt;sequal trilogy.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Or, my fav fantasy book, "The Brother's War"? That's the only full-sized<BR>&gt; &gt; novel that I'd ever finished reading by the day after I had bought it. <BR>&gt;Can't<BR>&gt; &gt; say too much for its sequel, "Planeswalker", though.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Haven't read those either.&nbsp; A friend of mine keeps hyping me about the <BR>&gt;fantasy<BR>&gt;book (forget the title) out by George R. R. Martin.<BR><BR>Just in case you don't know, those were Magic: The Gathering Books.<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;He says it is fantastic.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; I'll give it a try. If for no other reason than to read them all in <BR>&gt;order.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;You reading Dune now?&nbsp; Or, you already read it?<BR><BR>Already read it. Except for the Appendix.<BR><BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>Administrator of the Milieu: 0 Aid Society<BR>http://members.nbci.com/cheebzero/trav_index.htm<BR>_________________________________________________________________<BR>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 22:14:47 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Warrant Officers<BR><BR>On 12/21/00 at 04:17 PM,&nbsp; "Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;AFAIK the British model is like ours (actually the other way<BR>&gt;round), and&nbsp; Warrant Officers are simply the top of the NCO chain.<BR>&gt;The Navy may be different&nbsp; - it certainly was in the Age of Sail,<BR>&gt;when positions like Sailing Master were&nbsp; held by Warrant Officers.<BR>&gt;Like the modern US Army the Navy of that period used&nbsp; Warrants for<BR>&gt;specialists. I think this was to make them 'officers' without <BR>&gt;putting them in the chain of command, though they could certainly<BR>&gt;give orders.&nbsp; I may be wrong, but this may have only been possible<BR>&gt;when they had been&nbsp; delegated the authority to do so by a<BR>&gt;commissioned officer.<BR><BR>A commissioned officer is commissioned as "an officer and a gentleman", a warrant officer is not. He may *be* a gentleman, but he isn't designated as such, and that made a big difference in earlier times. It might in the 53rd century as well.<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 19:33:54 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Reft sector X-boat link<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; [I wrote:]<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&nbsp; It depends upon the spacetime path you take.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&gt; The *momentum* is the same.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; No.&nbsp; In general relativity, "vector equality at a distance" is just as<BR>&gt; ill-defined as "simulataneity at a distance" in SR.<BR><BR>I wasn't aware of that.... :-(<BR><BR>Still, I think it works better than trying to figure out how to<BR>"properly" conserve things...<BR><BR>&gt; The only thing that can unequivocably be said to be the same in<BR>&gt; different parts of curved spacetime is a scalar.&nbsp; The magnitude of the<BR>&gt; momentum of the 4-vector is such a scalar, but that's just the mass<BR>&gt; (which isn't very helpful).<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&nbsp; So I don't see how it makes a difference.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; It makes a difference in that the thrusters might fail "on purpose" if<BR>&gt;&gt; you are a terrorist fanatic...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; That is a possibility either accelerating before jump or after, as I<BR>&gt; stated.&nbsp; You still need to accelerate and decelerate to get where<BR>&gt; you're going.&nbsp; Forcing people to accelerate after jump isn't going to<BR>&gt; save anyone from terrorist attack.<BR><BR>No, but requiring them to follow trajectories that don't intersect<BR>anything you care about, except when they are docking or landing makes<BR>things a lot harder for a terrorist (and also minimizes the chances of<BR>real accidents).<BR><BR>&gt; Anyway, everyone knows that terrorists use near-C rocks and there's<BR>&gt; nothing the planet can do about it...<BR><BR>Maybe, depends on your TU. And even if they can, that's a lot harder to<BR>pull off than crashing a ship into a city. <BR><BR>&gt; Of course, the fact that it's no use doesn't necessarily mean that a<BR>&gt; government won't impose such restrictions.&nbsp; In fact, it could be<BR>&gt; interesting if a captain jumps into a system with the standard exit<BR>&gt; speed for most efficient turnover, and gets fined heavily for<BR>&gt; violating local traffic protocols and thoroughly investigated for<BR>&gt; potential terrorist activity.&nbsp; Oops, better do more research into<BR>&gt; local customs and laws next time.<BR><BR>Outside the 100 diameter limit, I figure they'll forgive "errors" in<BR>exit vector. Failing correct them when contacted, and *especially*<BR>failing to follow your assigned flight path are going to get you a<BR>visit by a flight of fighters, or targeted by the space efense system.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 20:25:13 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising<BR><BR>&gt;From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>...<BR>&gt;Clinton got caught with his pants down, literally. His _biggest_ crime<BR>&gt;was being elected as a Democrat when the Republicans thought that they<BR>&gt;owned 1600 Pennsylvania. They never forgave him that, even though the<BR>&gt;American public largely did. (At least enough to send him there for two<BR>&gt;terms.) Hell as it is the R's just _barely_ won it this time. <BR><BR>&nbsp; Some of our analysts put it less delicately than that, but <BR>a partly paralyzed Bush admin isn't the worst option to us...<BR><BR>&gt;Besides, it's hardly different than at any time in the past...foex, look<BR>&gt;at the Marine Corps history during the 20's and 30's. They were,<BR>&gt;essentially, a mercenary corps at the disposal of large US business<BR>&gt;interests, particularly in Latin America.<BR><BR>&nbsp; There's lots of fodder there for Trav merc scenarios :|<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 15:13:29 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: (7) Summary - KB3 Traveller System (Playtest)<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Kenneth posted:<BR>&gt;The AVs in MT are perfectly interchangeable with T4 AVs (and<BR>&gt;all CT armors are listed in MT, so I already have AVs for every type of<BR>armor<BR>&gt;in the game).<BR><BR>Eee-er-um.. maybe?<BR><BR>Does this mean that T4's TL 12 battledress (AV 8 from memory) is compatable<BR>with MT's TL 15 BD (AV 18)? If so, I want the high-tech BD, since by T4<BR>rules I'll be completely invulnerable to anything short of an anti-tank<BR>round. The best hand-held slug thrower in MT is the gauss rifle at Pen 7.<BR>However, in MT it is possible to hurt someone in BD by a Called Shot^h^h^h<BR>sorry, what's it called,<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Your hand-to-hand example obviously uses Opposed Rolls,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Opposed rolls are defined in one of the previous posts.&nbsp; I think I just<BR>caught<BR>&gt;you looking only at the summary!<BR><BR>Sorry, bad wording my me. I've actually clipped all of your posts so far,<BR>being a task system grognard-wannabe. :-)<BR><BR>&gt;And...all that above?&nbsp; That's probably a lot more than you wanted to<BR>hear...<BR><BR>No, that's great, I want to hear more. I've been struggling with this<BR>myself, since I've never been really happy with any of the Trav combat<BR>systems. I tried using KBv2 in my last game, and it seemed to work OK, but<BR>the hit-pen-damage stuff is always the hard part.<BR><BR>AD&amp;D cheats, in a sense, as it rolls the hit and penetrate into one roll,<BR>with damage being unmodified (I've been through this, and have an AD&amp;D<BR>version of Trav combat on my website, if anyone's interested ;-).<BR><BR>CT went a similar way, with mods for weapon-vs-armour, then unmodified<BR>damage once penetration occurs. However, you need to have a<BR>weapon-vs-armour table row FOR EACH WEAPON... and again, a new column if<BR>you ever add new armour... *sigh*. BTW, the unified Judges Guild chart<BR>makes the cross-checking much easier, for those of you using CT.<BR><BR>MT has a complicated two-step penetration routine, where you need to work<BR>out both weapon-vs-armour details, and then worry about how much your shot<BR>hit by, and use all of this to modify the actual final damage.<BR><BR>I've always wanted a system that would take account of hit-pen-dam and also<BR>be SIMPLE and QUICK to run, as well as being SCALABLE from personal combat<BR>up through vehicles (tanks!) to starships. Too often, PC's say, "What<BR>happens if I shoot at that starship with my [insert favourite weapon<BR>here]?", and I have to scramble through MT or Striker for an answer.<BR><BR>I'd like to money to buy ACQ, but it's not available in Oz, and anyway with<BR>our exchange rate and all costs effectively twice as much as the list price<BR>PLUS double the postage!&nbsp; :-(<BR><BR>As for Steve's question:<BR>&gt; Would a moving target just be a more difficult task<BR>&gt; than a still one?<BR><BR>MT used something like "for every X metres of vehicle speed, increase Diff<BR>by one, unless past Long range where movement doesn't matter as much"<BR>(rough paraphrase from memory). Not really elegant, I seem to recall.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 23:19:38 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: DUNE Messiah &amp; Other Books<BR><BR>James Jensen wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;You reading Dune now?&nbsp; Or, you already read it?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Already read it. Except for the Appendix.<BR><BR>Man!&nbsp; I read that first!<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 00:23:27 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Noble vs. military rank<BR><BR>At 7:39 PM -0500 12/20/00, knightsky@juno.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;I have to confess, I've never seen the 4th film, because that would<BR>&gt;involve admitting that there *was* a 3rd film, and I'm not ready to do<BR>&gt;that just yet.<BR><BR>I strongly encourage you to see it, if for no other reason than that <BR>it will put the third into better perspective, and a more flattering <BR>light.&nbsp; While A:4 had some good elements or hooks, not one was <BR>handled well, nor does it seem much attempt was made to do so. <BR>Coming after A3, which was *extremely* dark and serious, its <BR>cartoonish aspects were thrown into particularly sharp relief, <BR>unfortunately; if it had followed after A2, which was fairly <BR>light-spirited and gung-ho, it wouldn't have been such an unpleasant <BR>and abrupt 'ending' for the series.&nbsp; And for all the complaints about <BR>the characters in A3, holy crap, they're deep and profound compared <BR>to the Saturday morning anime wankbots that stalk through A4. <BR>Seriously, after seeing A4, you'll likely come back to A3 and find in <BR>it the sense of closure it meant to provide all along.<BR><BR>On the bright side, A4 plays a lot like a lot of Traveller gaming <BR>episodes, I'll bet. Well, sure, there's not all *that* much <BR>gunfighting, but many a baddie is done to death creatively, one of <BR>the PCs develops super-powers, and a large spaceship is <BR>catastrophically destroyed.&nbsp; Pretty close, no?<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 23:28:08 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: (7) Summary - KB3 Traveller System (Playtest)<BR><BR>david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Eee-er-um.. maybe?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Does this mean that T4's TL 12 battledress (AV 8 from memory) is compatable<BR>&gt; with MT's TL 15 BD (AV 18)? If so, I want the high-tech BD, since by T4<BR>&gt; rules I'll be completely invulnerable to anything short of an anti-tank<BR>&gt; round. The best hand-held slug thrower in MT is the gauss rifle at Pen 7.<BR>&gt; However, in MT it is possible to hurt someone in BD by a Called Shot^h^h^h<BR>&gt; sorry, what's it called,<BR><BR>I remember seeing that too.&nbsp; There are a few discrepencies like the one you<BR>point out, but if you check, most of the AVs for MT armor and T4 armor are<BR>exactly the same.<BR><BR>You may have to make a few tweaks...<BR><BR>But, I just checked the Emperor's Arsenal, and the highest tech Battle Dress<BR>they have in T4 is TL13.&nbsp; That stuff is AV9/AV11 vs lasers.<BR><BR>You could interpolate taht TL 14 B-Dress is AV10/AV12 vs lasers, and TL 15<BR>B-Dress is AV11/AV13 vs lasers&nbsp; (still a far cry from AV18, but also quite<BR>high).<BR><BR>I'd probably tone down the AV18 B-Dress in my game.<BR><BR>Pretty much, though, the AVs in T4 are compatible with the AVs in MT (and the<BR>AVs listed in some of the old CT boxed games--which are exactly like MT AVs).<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 23:30:23 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: (7) Summary - KB3 Traveller System (Playtest)<BR><BR>david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; No, that's great, I want to hear more. I've been struggling with this<BR>&gt; myself, since I've never been really happy with any of the Trav combat<BR>&gt; systems. I tried using KBv2 in my last game, and it seemed to work OK, but<BR>&gt; the hit-pen-damage stuff is always the hard part.<BR><BR>What are you talking about here?&nbsp; KB2.0 was a task system.&nbsp; I didn't change any<BR>of the T4 hit-pen-damage stuff.&nbsp; You used that straight out of the box.<BR><BR>What did you have trouble with?<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 00:33:28 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Alienage (was: Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR><BR>At 12:52 AM +0000 12/21/00, Stephen Tempest wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;She never *did* leave the Marines, really - for Ripley, the events of<BR>&gt;all four films take place over no more than two or three months,<BR>&gt;subjective time. (and most of that time was at the start of "Aliens",<BR>&gt;before she'd agreed to go on the Sulaco).<BR><BR>Ok, that does make sense... when I posted earlier, I hadn't <BR>considered the sequence of events carefully, and you're absolutely <BR>right: at that point, she's still attached to the expedition of the <BR>second film.&nbsp; Though it's a nice point that it's Weyland-Yutani, not <BR>the USCM, that comes to "rescue" her.<BR><BR>&gt;ObTrav:&nbsp; You're kidding, right?&nbsp; Is there anyone out there who<BR>&gt;*hasn't* based a scenario on at least one of the Alien movies?&nbsp; Or, at<BR>&gt;least, quoted from them at an appropriate moment in the game?<BR><BR>I believe the original Alien appeared in the old JTAS: Bestiary back <BR>in the mid-80s, even.&nbsp; Serial numbers filed off, naturally; <BR>Weyland-Yutani would sue otherwise.<BR><BR>The Aliens movies strike me as having had a much greater effect, <BR>though mostly uncredited, on the 2300AD/Traveller 2300 universe than <BR>on published Traveller settings proper, which I guess does make sense.<BR><BR>&gt;Stephen<BR>&gt;(proud owner of the DVD box set - you can tell, can't you? ;-)&nbsp; )<BR><BR>I have temprorary custody of a set myself ;)&nbsp; And, in special honor <BR>of Legate, I'm watching them in French.&nbsp; (No, seriously... I have to <BR>take more language exams in the spring, and I hope I can learn to say <BR>things to my examiners like "this entire planet is highly toxic," <BR>"eat this, you bastard," and "you're all gonna die -- the only <BR>question is how you want it" by then.)<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 00:35:48 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Warrant Officers (longish)<BR><BR>At 8:55 PM -0600 12/20/00, John Groth wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;The issue, as I see it, is one of the source of authority.&nbsp; The military<BR>&gt;has four general classes of personnel, defined by their authority to<BR>&gt;issue orders:<BR><BR>[snip here]<BR><BR>&gt;In (simplified) Traveller terms, you have four groups:&nbsp; commoners<BR><BR>[and here]<BR><BR>&gt;Kenji, is this enough grease for this squeaky issue? ;-)<BR><BR>[and into my TML Goodies Bag it goes]<BR><BR>Thanks!<BR><BR><BR>Oh... there's just one other thing.&nbsp; Back to Ripley in Aliens:&nbsp; do <BR>merchant marines or commercial seafarers use the title or position of <BR>WO in our day at all?&nbsp; Does her position as the Nostromo's WO mean <BR>anything to y'all, or was it just added to sound cool, do you think?<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 00:38:14 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR><BR>At 7:16 PM -0800 12/20/00, Steven Hudson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;I honestly think that LL just enjoys pushing peoples buttons. IMHO the<BR>&gt;&gt;best thing is just to ignore his rampant jingoistic outbursts and concentrate<BR>&gt;&gt;on the useful comments he makes. I figure if he doesn't get a rise out of<BR>&gt;&gt;people, he'll stop.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; So kind of like "Clif" without the sincerity?<BR><BR>Given that we're talking about a role-playing game, I personally find <BR>the lack of sincerity to be *reassuring*.&nbsp; It's the ones who actually <BR>take the _____ debates seriously that make me cautious.<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 23:40:07 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: (7) Summary - KB3 Traveller System (Playtest)<BR><BR>david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; CT went a similar way, with mods for weapon-vs-armour, then unmodified<BR>&gt; damage once penetration occurs. However, you need to have a<BR>&gt; weapon-vs-armour table row FOR EACH WEAPON... and again, a new column if<BR>&gt; you ever add new armour... *sigh*. BTW, the unified Judges Guild chart<BR>&gt; makes the cross-checking much easier, for those of you using CT.<BR><BR>Interesting.&nbsp; I didn't know this.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; MT has a complicated two-step penetration routine, where you need to work<BR>&gt; out both weapon-vs-armour details, and then worry about how much your shot<BR>&gt; hit by, and use all of this to modify the actual final damage.<BR><BR>No doubt.&nbsp; The complicated two-step penetration stuff in MT was just that for<BR>me...too complicated.&nbsp; I never really liked it.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; I've always wanted a system that would take account of hit-pen-dam and also<BR>&gt; be SIMPLE and QUICK to run, as well as being SCALABLE from personal combat<BR>&gt; up through vehicles (tanks!) to starships.<BR><BR>You don't think T4 found the answer?&nbsp; I think their version (which is basically<BR>a version used on some CT boxed games--Snapshot/Striker/Azhanti High<BR>Lighting--I forget which) really did a quick, easy job with this.<BR><BR>The higher the damage rating of a weapon, the more "punching" power it has.<BR>When you compare the damage of the weapon to the AV of the armor, if there is<BR>any dice left over from the damage, the weapon penetrated.&nbsp; If there is no dice<BR>left over after comparison, the armor did its job, and the slug did not punch<BR>through the armor.<BR><BR>I think that's a nice, slick, easy, playable way of doing penetration&nbsp; (not as<BR>detailed as MT, but not as complicated either).&nbsp; For what the T4 system lacks<BR>in detail, it makes up for in ease of play.<BR><BR>I think it's a good match.<BR><BR>Except for TNE, we don't roll for every bullet fired in an autoburst either.&nbsp; I<BR>think the T4 system is similar to this--it addresses the issue, but keeps<BR>playability paramount.<BR><BR>I really like the T4 method.&nbsp; I think it fits Traveller well.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Too often, PC's say, "What<BR>&gt; happens if I shoot at that starship with my [insert favourite weapon<BR>&gt; here]?", and I have to scramble through MT or Striker for an answer.<BR><BR>There are rules for this in the back of the MT Players Manual.&nbsp; The AVs for the<BR>hulls and walls and such are incredible.&nbsp; Most of their favorite weapons would<BR>just scratch the paint.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; I'd like to money to buy ACQ, but it's not available in Oz, and anyway with<BR>&gt; our exchange rate and all costs effectively twice as much as the list price<BR>&gt; PLUS double the postage!&nbsp; :-(<BR><BR>What's ACQ?<BR><BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 16:47:45 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>[someone wrote:]<BR>&gt; &gt; jump-emergence-point-moves-at-velocity-ship-had-when-it-jumped<BR>&gt; &gt; achieves all the steering objectives.<BR><BR>&gt; Having the exit point moving with respect to the entrance point<BR>&gt; bothers me. A *lot*.<BR><BR>If the entry point is stationary w.r.t. the ship at time of jump, and<BR>the jump emergence point is stationary w.r.t to entry point, then why<BR>are you bothered with the statement above?&nbsp; It appears to be exactly<BR>what you want.&nbsp; (Did I miss a smiley or something?)<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3443<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yb02.mx.aol.com (rly-yb02.mail.aol.com [172.18.146.2]) by air-yb02.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 00:48:56 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yb02.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 00:48:06 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id AAA94904;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 00:46:00 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Thu, 21 Dec 2000 00:45:33 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id AAA94864<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 00:45:33 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 00:45:33 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012210545.AAA94864@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3443<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Thursday, December 21 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3444<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Reft sector X-boat link<BR>Re: Commie Atheist Films (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3417)<BR>Re: Commie Atheist Films (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3417)<BR>Re: Jump Emergence (was re: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>re: Trans-Atlantic Invasion<BR>Not any more&nbsp; &nbsp; was: Re: Traveller related (really!!)<BR>RE: DUNE Messiah!<BR>RE: Noble vs. military rank<BR>RE: DUNE Messiah! &amp; Other Books<BR>RE: Noble vs. military rank<BR>RE: flickering black globes useless?<BR>RE: Low standards<BR>Thought for Eris<BR>RE: Commie Atheist Films and Artistic Stylings<BR>Re: Task persistence<BR>RE: Low standards<BR>Re: Commie Atheist Films and Artistic Stylings<BR>RE: Noble vs. military rank<BR>RE: Noble vs. military rank<BR>Re: Noble vs. military rank<BR>Warrant Officers<BR>re: Trans-Atlantic Invasion<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 17:06:15 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Reft sector X-boat link<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; No.&nbsp; In general relativity, "vector equality at a distance" is just as<BR>&gt; &gt; ill-defined as "simulataneity at a distance" in SR.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I wasn't aware of that.... :-(<BR><BR>One of its uglier properties.&nbsp; Best to ignore GR in the Traveller<BR>universe, I think.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; No, but requiring them to follow trajectories that don't intersect<BR>&gt; anything you care about, except when they are docking or landing makes<BR>&gt; things a lot harder for a terrorist (and also minimizes the chances of<BR>&gt; real accidents).<BR><BR>True.&nbsp; That's still consistent with accelerating before jump -- you<BR>can make sure your vector in the target system doesn't intersect<BR>anything important.&nbsp; Given the travel time and/or fuel it saves, it's<BR>well worth it.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Anyway, everyone knows that terrorists use near-C rocks and there's<BR>&gt; &gt; nothing the planet can do about it...<BR><BR>&gt; Maybe, depends on your TU. And even if they can, that's a lot harder to<BR>&gt; pull off than crashing a ship into a city. <BR><BR>I'd think it was basically identical.&nbsp; Accelerate ship (or rock) to<BR>relativistic speeds (or as much as your fuel supply lets you,<BR>depending on your TU), then jump to the desired system a few<BR>light-minutes to light-hours out (depending on speed).&nbsp; Perform course<BR>correction to make sure you hit the target planet.&nbsp; Bang.<BR><BR>People who come in at speeds low enough to stop before they hit the<BR>planet aren't likely to be using their ship as a terrorist weapon.<BR>People who jump in at 10000+ km/s probably aren't up to much good<BR>though.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Outside the 100 diameter limit, I figure they'll forgive "errors" in<BR>&gt; exit vector. Failing correct them when contacted, and *especially*<BR>&gt; failing to follow your assigned flight path are going to get you a<BR>&gt; visit by a flight of fighters, or targeted by the space efense<BR>&gt; system.<BR><BR>Yes, I agree.&nbsp; 100-300 km/s exit velocity should be OK.&nbsp; Just make<BR>sure it isn't pointed exactly at the planet, and be sure you<BR>decelerate along the vector you're assigned once you exit jump.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 13:32:25 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Commie Atheist Films (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3417)<BR><BR>&gt; From: Kenji Schwarz <BR>&gt; At 10:01 AM +1000 12/20/00, Alan Bradley wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;There is sillier headgear in an earlier Soviet film - Aelita, an SF film<BR>&gt; &gt;made around 1926.&nbsp; The oppressed Martian masses wear boxes on their<BR>&gt; &gt;heads! It's symbolic, of course, (the "boxes" are actually blinkers,<BR>&gt; &gt;like horses wear), but it still looks incredibly stupid.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Now hold on a damn second.&nbsp; That is *the* grandmother of all <BR>&gt; celluloid sci-fi style you're slagging there.&nbsp; And a freakin' great <BR>&gt; film, too.<BR><BR>Note the careful and subtle way I bragged about having seen it...<BR><BR>It is, of course, a _fabulous_ film.&nbsp; One every TMLer should aspire to see<BR>at least once in their lives.&nbsp; The design of the "Martian" sets is really<BR>interesting - I don't know enough about art to name the style they use, but<BR>it is classic early twentieth century "modern".&nbsp; It was also made in the<BR>brief gap between the Civil War and the rise of Stalin, and there are<BR>interesting, if rather tragic hints as to what was to come - one of the<BR>characters is a classic bureaucratic opportunist of the kind that was soon<BR>to come to power in reality. <BR><BR>But the boxes on the Martian workers' heads just look dumb.<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 13:03:27 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Commie Atheist Films (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3417)<BR><BR>&gt; From: "Ben Aaronovitch" <BR>&gt; Adding further to the OT content, the favourite film amongst Cosmonauts<BR>&gt; at Baikonaur(sp) was 'Red Son of The Desert' a sort of Civil War (Russian<BR>&gt; that is) Western set in Mongolia (or something). It was traditional for<BR>&gt; the Cosmonauts to choose a film for the night before take off and they<BR>&gt; nearly always chose that.<BR>&gt; It was one of the first films to make it permenantly into space on Mir.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I've never seen it but I've heard its lots of steely eyed men, deserts,<BR>&gt; horses, revenge and minimal dialogue.<BR><BR>Sounds like my kind of film.&nbsp; : )<BR><BR>I'll keep an eye open for it.<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 13:42:53 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump Emergence (was re: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>&gt; From: Timothy Little <BR>&gt; &gt; You can almost make it consistent by assuming that the ship covers the<BR>&gt; &gt; distance of the jump instantaneously, then sits at the exit point until<BR>&gt; &gt; "the jump bubble collapses". But that opens up other cans of worms...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; What sort of worms?&nbsp; (As if there aren't enough already!)<BR><BR>We could tell you, but you would have to make a sanity check.&nbsp; The entities<BR>that live outside normal space and time are not something you want to think<BR>about.<BR><BR>Fortunately, however, near-C-Rats and Astro Gators eat jump worms.<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 14:09:40 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: re: Trans-Atlantic Invasion<BR><BR>&gt; From: Steven Hudson<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; I'm not sure which would be better - adding several years to the<BR>&gt; project by going through Suez/Morocco, or simply offering Franco<BR>&gt; the largest bribe in history?&nbsp; :&gt;<BR><BR>Going through Suez/Morocco would be quite feasible.&nbsp; The Free French<BR>"liberated" a great deal of the French overseas empire.&nbsp; (That is where<BR>they got most of their troops.)&nbsp; Presumably the "Free British" would do<BR>something similar with the Indian army, not to mention the Dominions.<BR><BR>On the other hand, fighting off the Japanese would have been harder if<BR>Britain had fallen.&nbsp; <BR><BR>As an aside, does anyone remember what the legal situation was wrt the Free<BR>French and Lend/Lease shipments?&nbsp; The US government recognised the Vichy<BR>government until quite late, so presumably they couldn't directly arm an<BR>"illegimate" movement like the Free French.&nbsp; I suppose the shipments would<BR>have been directed via the British.&nbsp; Of course things would have been<BR>different after the US had entered the war and De Gaulle's government<BR>became formally organised and recognised.<BR><BR>Hmm:&nbsp; Franco-German wars.<BR>1870-1871 Germans win.<BR>1914-1918 French win.<BR>1939-1940 Germans win.<BR>1944-1945 French win.<BR><BR>And then there was Napoleon....&nbsp; "surrender monkeys" my a**.<BR><BR>They got whupped good in Vietnam though.&nbsp; General Giap is a minor hero of<BR>mine. <BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 14:21:52 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Not any more&nbsp; &nbsp; was: Re: Traveller related (really!!)<BR><BR>&gt; From: Steven Hudson<BR>&gt; &gt;From: "Thom Harris" <BR>&gt; &gt;Consider Napoleon.....what aristocracy did he belong too or his<BR>officers? <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; IIRC, Napoleon was exactly the kind of officer that the Segur<BR>ordinances<BR>&gt; and St. Cyr were designed to engender - professional, careerist, and<BR>_not_<BR>&gt; wealthy enough to behave like landed magnates. And asides from his<BR>careful<BR>&gt; selection of generals who owed everything to him, much of the French<BR>&gt; military continued to run as before, and often using the same officers as<BR>&gt; the Royalist forces had, especially once the emigres started returning.<BR><BR>IIRC his family were actually bigshots on Corsica, but that isn't saying<BR>much.&nbsp; "Not wealthy enough" sums them up pretty well.<BR><BR>He did have influential friends though:&nbsp; his brother Lucien was a prominent<BR>Jacobin, and a friend of the Robespierre brothers.&nbsp; This of course became a<BR>bit of a liability once the Jacobins fell from power.<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 19:20:07 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: DUNE Messiah!<BR><BR>James Jensen wrote :<BR><BR>&gt; I did the same thing with Sword of Shannara a<BR>&gt; year or two ago. Great book, too, but it gets<BR>&gt; a little off-track at the end.<BR>&gt; Anyone here ever read it?<BR><BR>I tried, but is was such a blatant rip-off, and such a piece of hack work, I<BR>couldn't finish it. Sorry, but you did ask.<BR>&lt;grin&gt;<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 19:35:36 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Noble vs. military rank<BR><BR>Kenji Schwarz wrote :<BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt; So... they're just different names and types of paper for the top<BR>&gt; layer of NCOs?&nbsp; Is that all?*<BR><BR>Pretty much.<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; In the second film she was given an "honorary" military<BR>&gt; &gt; rank to&nbsp; allow her to work with the Colonial Marines on<BR>&gt; &gt; the Sularco, a common practice when civilian advisors<BR>&gt; &gt; are attached to military commands.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; The Warrant Officer rank was the rank she held on the<BR>&gt; &gt; _merchant_ ship the Nostromo, and the rank by which the<BR>&gt; &gt; Company referred to her at the beginning of the movie.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Okay, that makes sense... but why did the honorary rank "stick" in<BR>&gt; the 3rd and especially 4th films, even after she left the<BR>&gt; Sulaco/Marines?&nbsp; Just a lapse in continuity?<BR><BR>Probably.<BR><BR>Though one could also argue that the people calling her that didn't know any<BR>better.<BR><BR>When she was dragged out of the wreckage of the Sularco, the details the<BR>prison staff had on her would probably have refered to her as Lieutenant, as<BR>she was attached to the Sularco on that rank.<BR><BR>And by the time of the 4th movie, the military command people on the ship<BR>may have only had the Sularco records left. Or they may have known but were<BR>trying to convince her she was a military officer so she would take orders.<BR><BR>&gt; * Kenji asks, knowing that blase', dismissive comments about military<BR>&gt; traditions are the best way to get excruciatingly detailed historical<BR>&gt; essays posted to the web, with flamewars to follow.<BR><BR>&lt;grin&gt; sorry to dissappoint you.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 19:52:31 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: DUNE Messiah! &amp; Other Books<BR><BR>James Jensen wrote :<BR><BR>&gt; Next question: Have you read "The Soulforge" by Margaret Weiss?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Or, my fav fantasy book, "The Brother's War"? That's the only full-sized<BR>&gt; novel that I'd ever finished reading by the day after I had<BR>&gt; bought it. Can't say too much for its sequel, "Planeswalker", though.<BR><BR>Sunds like we have different tastes, I'm not keen on Weiss at all, though I<BR>admit I haven't read that one.<BR><BR>But one of my favourite fantasy series is Guy Gavriel Kay's three volume<BR>"Fionavar Tapestry". I also like Greg Bear's "Infinity Concerto".<BR><BR>And I've recently finished Tad Williams' "Memory, Sorrow, &amp; Thorn" 'trilogy.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 20:09:18 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Noble vs. military rank<BR><BR>Kenji Schwarz wrote :<BR>&gt; The idea that Winona be given any valid role in an Aliens movie other<BR>&gt; than entertaining the Colonial Marines with her now well-known<BR>&gt; ping-pong ball trick is a disgrace.<BR><BR>You learn something new every day!<BR>I didn't know Winona was known for her verison of the ping-pong ball trick.<BR><BR>I'm asuming this is the same ping-pong ball trick that the girls down Boogie<BR>St used to do, using the same equipment they used to pick up coins, open<BR>beer bottles, and put out candles?<BR><BR>&gt; Well, we might as well just lie back and enjoy it, then.*<BR><BR>And remember to think of England.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 20:17:29 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: flickering black globes useless?<BR><BR>Anthony Jackson wrote :<BR><BR>&gt; Consider a 50% flicker rate black globe.<BR>&gt; It absorbs 50% of attacks.&nbsp; This is good.&nbsp; However, it also reduces<BR>&gt; acceleration by 50%, which reduces your evasive ability by 75%, with the<BR>&gt; result that unless you're at ranges too close to dodge, you get<BR>&gt; hit by twice as many shots after the black globe it applied.<BR>&gt; This seems bad...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Thoughts?&nbsp; Is my math faulty?<BR><BR>Sounds about right, BG's shouldn't be flickered at those percentages though.<BR>As you say, it's hardly worth it.<BR><BR>The flicker should normally not drop below 90%, it's designed to allow the<BR>BG ship to have _some_ idea of where they are, and to fire a big gun once in<BR>a while, not to actively maneurver and fight in.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 20:34:01 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Low standards<BR><BR>Kenji Schwarz wrote :<BR>&gt; Okay, what the hell, a family language violation warning for my<BR>&gt; vaguely on-topic discussion of sci-fi movies coming up below:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Is Winona, with all the screen presence of wet sawdust in a light<BR>&gt; breeze, actually meant to be sexy?<BR><BR>She was sexier in 'Betelguese'.<BR><BR>&gt; I mean, clearly Sigourney Weaver is simply far too *old* for the<BR>&gt; target audience to be able to jerk off to;<BR><BR>ooo, I don't know the tentacle hentai scene was pretty hot.<BR><BR>&gt; but I wasn't sure if the designated masturbatory focus was<BR>&gt; "Call" or the spring-loaded guns that "Christie" carried.<BR><BR>The thing that really got my rocks off was the "hang upside down from a<BR>chain with two guns blazing" bit, though the spring loaded guns were good<BR>too.<BR><BR>The Aliens in water were exciting also.<BR><BR>&gt; Thank god Chow Yun Fat didn't get that part.&nbsp; The movie really called<BR>&gt; for Jackie Chan, if they did need to get a chic HK action star used<BR>&gt; to comic-book production values.<BR><BR>&gt; Come on, admit it, you guys, you WANT to see Jackie take on a couple<BR>&gt; Aliens.&nbsp; It'd be great!<BR><BR>I can imagine the ladder scene now.<BR><BR>&gt; Once Ken Bearden finishes off his current movie and gets money hurled<BR>&gt; at him by desperately adoring producers and work begins on the<BR>&gt; Traveller Movie, what role should Jackie be cast in, anyway?<BR>&gt; Director of SolSec?<BR><BR>No Walter Koenig has to do that, he plays head of PsiCorp so well in Bab5.<BR><BR>Jackie should play Dulinor.<BR>Who else can walk into the Imperial palace by himself, get through all the<BR>guards, shoot the (ersatz) emperor and get back out again believably ?<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 01:26:59 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Thought for Eris<BR><BR>I had another thought for Traveller game mechanics (although I think KB3<BR>is better), but I knew you've been playin' around with mechanics.&nbsp; So, I<BR>thought I'd throw the idea your way.<BR><BR>I've seen this used in other RPGs.<BR><BR>What if you took your Traveller skill level and used that as a number of<BR>dice to throw (like KB3), but you're only looking for the result on one<BR>or two dice?<BR><BR>Ex--if you had Pistol-3, you'd throw 4D.&nbsp; Your highest die of the ones<BR>you throw is what you're looking for.<BR><BR>I haven't put a whole lot of thought into this...but working off the top<BR>of my head, you could do something like this--<BR><BR><BR>(1):&nbsp; Let's say that we want to end up with a 2D system.&nbsp; If you've got<BR>a level 0 skill, you throw 1D...if you've got level 1, you throw<BR>2D...level 2 means 3D and so on (like KB3 on this count).<BR><BR>(2):&nbsp; Then, you could set up a set of difficulty numbers.&nbsp; Take the<BR>character's stat and subtract it from whatever numbers you come up with.<BR><BR>(just making up numbers here)<BR><BR>Easy......10<BR>Average....15<BR>Difficult.....20<BR>Formidalbe....25<BR>Staggering.....30<BR>Impossible....35<BR><BR>(3):&nbsp; So, what you do is subtract your stat from the difficulty number,<BR>and whatever that number is, is your target number.&nbsp; (If your stat is 7<BR>and you want to throw an Easy task, you have to throw 3+.&nbsp; If your stat<BR>is 10, Easy tasks are automatic, but you have to throw 5+ on Average<BR>throws..etc.)<BR><BR>(4):&nbsp; How's the proceedure go?&nbsp; Throw a number of dice equal to your<BR>level +1.&nbsp; One die is a Wild Die and does some effect pushing the number<BR>up and down.&nbsp; On your throw, you only count the Wild Die and the single<BR>highest die of the others.&nbsp; Add those two dice together and compare to<BR>your target number genarated above.&nbsp; (Or don't use the Wild Die and just<BR>count the two highest die...maybe using the "doubling" rule mentioned<BR>next).<BR><BR>(5):&nbsp; You could also figure in a mechanic where, if you rolled doubles,<BR>you could re-roll them (ie your Wild Die and your highest die are<BR>doubles...reroll them until you don't get doubles anymore).&nbsp; (You could<BR>also make the doubling rule to include any of the die your throw--if<BR>your highest on the throw is, say, "5", then all "5s" that are showing<BR>are rethrown until they don't match any more.<BR><BR><BR>Just a thought on another way to do Traveller.&nbsp; The target numbers come<BR>down, and you're basically only dealing with two dice (although you get<BR>to throw more sometimes--only two count).<BR><BR>Needs a lot of work, but I like the basic idea.<BR><BR>What do you think?<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 02:47:51 -0500<BR>From: "Chris Seamans" &lt;semo@pil.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Commie Atheist Films and Artistic Stylings<BR><BR>&gt;It is, of course, a _fabulous_ film.&nbsp; One every TMLer should aspire to see<BR>&gt;at least once in their lives.&nbsp; The design of the "Martian" sets is really<BR>&gt;interesting - I don't know enough about art to name the style they use, but<BR>&gt;it is classic early twentieth century "modern".&nbsp; It was also made in the<BR>&gt;brief gap between the Civil War and the rise of Stalin, and there are<BR>&gt;interesting, if rather tragic hints as to what was to come - one of the<BR>&gt;characters is a classic bureaucratic opportunist of the kind that was soon<BR>&gt;to come to power in reality.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Wow. I had almost forgotten how badly I had wanted to see that particular<BR>film. I remember seeing stills in an old film book a friend of mine had and<BR>really wanting to get my hands on it, but since I never did find it it, I<BR>ended up forgetting all about it.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; In case you ever need to impress somebody at a party, the sets appear to be<BR>influenced by constructivism, although I guess a case could be made for<BR>cubism. Given the limited imagery I could find online, it's tough to tell<BR>for sure, but given the historical context I would lean towards<BR>constructivism myself.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 00:13:57 -0800<BR>From: "Trent Smith" &lt;trentfs@ix.netcom.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Task persistence<BR><BR>Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; I prefer the 'circumstances dice' method.&nbsp; This one is indeed too<BR>&gt; complicated, and actually goes counter to my desires.&nbsp; This one<BR>&gt; regresses to the mean.<BR><BR>You're totally right here.&nbsp; I hadn't checked the math well enough.&nbsp; Throw<BR>this method out, then.&nbsp; However, I still think the 'circumstance die' method<BR>is a good starting point towards the kind of system you're looking for.<BR><BR>&gt; The initial rolls have become almost irrelevant, averaged out over 8<BR>&gt; throws.&nbsp; It's the exact opposite of what I was hoping to achieve.<BR><BR>Oops!&nbsp; I see that now!<BR><BR>&gt; Actually, what you mean by "super powered" or "permanently cursed" is<BR>&gt; probably exactly what I want.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; If you have a character with Intrusion-3 who consistently fails on<BR>&gt; LockSmart locks, it just means she doesn't know how to beat them (and<BR>&gt; hasn't learned through practice).&nbsp; You might consider that "cursed",<BR>&gt; but it isn't luck so that would be a misleading term.&nbsp; She is almost<BR>&gt; certainly better at other aspects of the Intrusion skill.&nbsp; She could<BR>&gt; even fail on all types of electronic lock but be good at mechanical<BR>&gt; locks.&nbsp; Or even poor at all locks in general but good at<BR>&gt; illegitimately getting into places by other means.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; If she consistently beats LockSmart locks, that's what you would<BR>&gt; expect if someone has done a pretty good study on them and plenty of<BR>&gt; practice.&nbsp; She could even be expert at all electronic locks.&nbsp; Or even<BR>&gt; *all* locks, regardless of type.&nbsp; Not "super powered", since she'll be<BR>&gt; worse at other aspects covered by the Intrusion skill.<BR><BR>That's all nice and good, except that (as you've said you desired) we're<BR>abstracting this out into a dice-roll.&nbsp; The alternative to this is either 1)<BR>a huge amount of extra work for the GM, or 2) arbitrary on-the-spot<BR>decisions.&nbsp; The downside, though, is that since these things are being<BR>decided by a die-roll, the player who rolls low and finds himself<BR>'handicapped by circumstance' is still going to feel like he was done-in by<BR>a single unlucky roll.&nbsp; The 'super-power' thing is probably just my GM<BR>paranoia, and can safely be ignored.<BR><BR>&gt; In fact, that's the sort of thing I'd like to see, rather than just<BR>&gt; the rather bland and undescriptive "Intrusion-3".&nbsp; So I'd say that<BR>&gt; what I want to see in a task system, is something you would find<BR>&gt; undesirable.&nbsp; That's hardly surprising; tastes differ.<BR><BR>The question seems to be where you want to balance between 'realistic cause<BR>and effect' and 'fun larger-than-life unpredictability.'&nbsp; While I consider<BR>myself pretty far left on that scale, you seem to be even a couple degrees<BR>further.&nbsp; I can appreciate the logic and reasoning behind the 'circumstance<BR>die' (or whatever other method you eventually come up with), but there's<BR>also a pretty big part of me that feels that adjusting difficulty levels and<BR>occasional circumstance DMs are 'good enough,' and that the granularity of a<BR>workable, fun game-system is too big to support that kind of detail.<BR><BR>That said, though, I'd still like to see what you can come up with, and am<BR>more than happy to brainstorm, kibbitz, and troubleshoot your ideas, the<BR>same as Kenneth's, or anyone else's who feels like entering the Bi-Annual<BR>Great TML Task System Derby (rah-rah!)<BR><BR>Trent<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 00:12:07 -0800<BR>From: Gordon Horne &lt;gordon.horne@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Low standards<BR><BR>&gt;No Walter Koenig has to do that, he plays head of PsiCorp so well in Bab5.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Jackie should play Dulinor.<BR>&gt;Who else can walk into the Imperial palace by himself, get through all the<BR>&gt;guards, shoot the (ersatz) emperor and get back out again believably ?<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Koenig. I think Koenig should play Dulinor. Sean Connery would be <BR>Norris. I don't know who Jackie would be because there are several <BR>options. Head of Sol Sec would be O.K. though.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; g<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 00:24:54 -0800<BR>From: "Trent Smith" &lt;trentfs@ix.netcom.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Commie Atheist Films and Artistic Stylings<BR><BR>Chris Seamans &lt;semo@pil.net&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; Wow. I had almost forgotten how badly I had wanted to see that particular<BR>&gt; film. I remember seeing stills in an old film book a friend of mine had<BR>and<BR>&gt; really wanting to get my hands on it, but since I never did find it it, I<BR>&gt; ended up forgetting all about it.<BR><BR>'Aelita, Queen of Mars' is available on video (in the US) from Kino, as part<BR>of their 'Red Silents' series (along with lots of other great, little known<BR>films).&nbsp; If you try hard enough, you should definitely be able to track this<BR>down Somewhere.&nbsp; For instance, Eddie Brandt's Saturday Matinee in North<BR>Hollywood -- I'd be willing to guarantee they've got it, and they do rentals<BR>by mail-order.<BR><BR>Trent<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 08:21:13 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Noble vs. military rank<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt; writes:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;The Warrant Officer rank was the rank she held on the <BR>&gt; _merchant_ ship the<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;Nostromo, and the rank by which the Company referred to her <BR>&gt; at the beginning<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;of the movie.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Okay, that makes sense... but why did the honorary rank "stick" in <BR>&gt; &gt;the 3rd and especially 4th films, even after she left the <BR>&gt; &gt;Sulaco/Marines?&nbsp; Just a lapse in continuity?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; She never *did* leave the Marines, really - for Ripley, the events of<BR>&gt; all four films take place over no more than two or three months,<BR>&gt; subjective time. (and most of that time was at the start of "Aliens",<BR>&gt; before she'd agreed to go on the Sulaco).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ObTrav:&nbsp; You're kidding, right?&nbsp; Is there anyone out there who<BR>&gt; *hasn't* based a scenario on at least one of the Alien movies?&nbsp; Or, at<BR>&gt; least, quoted from them at an appropriate moment in the game?<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>I certainly did quite recently, using one of the new races from GT: Alien<BR>races. Interesting.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 08:23:51 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Noble vs. military rank<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Frank G. Pitt [mailto:frankie@mundens.gen.nz]<BR>&gt; Sent: 21 December 2000 07:09<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Noble vs. military rank<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Kenji Schwarz wrote :<BR>&gt; &gt; The idea that Winona be given any valid role in an Aliens <BR>&gt; movie other<BR>&gt; &gt; than entertaining the Colonial Marines with her now well-known<BR>&gt; &gt; ping-pong ball trick is a disgrace.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; You learn something new every day!<BR>&gt; I didn't know Winona was known for her verison of the <BR>&gt; ping-pong ball trick.<BR><BR>It's from the South Park movie. Most amusing.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 00:31:20 -0800<BR>From: "Evyn MacDude" &lt;wmacdude@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Noble vs. military rank<BR><BR>&gt; The idea that Winona be given any valid role in an Aliens movie other <BR>&gt; than entertaining the Colonial Marines with her now well-known <BR>&gt; ping-pong ball trick is a disgrace.<BR><BR>Eh?<BR><BR>I missed that one.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 02:24:23 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Warrant Officers<BR><BR>As my dear, departed father - a CWO4 in the USN - often pointed out,<BR>warrants started as the bastard sons of the nobility; they weren't<BR>nobles, so they couldn't be commissioned, but they weren't commoners,<BR>either.<BR><BR>And, according to my father, warrant officers were still the biggest<BR>bastards around.<BR><BR>=====<BR>Gerry Harris<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.<BR>http://shopping.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 02:33:21 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: re: Trans-Atlantic Invasion<BR><BR>Alan Bradley wrote:<BR><BR>&lt;&lt;And then there was Napoleon....&nbsp; "surrender monkeys" my a**.&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>One historian I've read recently pointed out that Napolean managed to<BR>get the martial gene completely eradicated from the French population.<BR><BR>=====<BR>Gerry Harris<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.<BR>http://shopping.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3444<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Thursday, December 21 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3445<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>Re: Reft sector X-boat link<BR>RE: Traveller related (really!!)<BR>Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising<BR>Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising<BR>Re: Warrant Officer<BR>Warrant Officers<BR>RE: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR>RE: flickering black globes useless?<BR>RE: Low standards<BR>RE: Low standards<BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>RE: Warrant Officers<BR>RE: Trans-Atlantic Invasion<BR>RE: BITS adventures...<BR>Question: Traveller Star System/planet program?<BR>RE: Question: Traveller Star System/planet program?<BR>Re: Question: Traveller Star System/planet program?<BR>RE: Low standards<BR>Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR>Re: Commie Atheist Films (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3417)<BR>RE: Noble vs. military rank<BR>RE: Noble vs. military rank<BR>Re: Noble vs. military rank<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 22:59:07 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; At 10:49 AM 12/20/2000 PST, you wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Will use Soviet-style human wave assaults.&nbsp; I always knew that the<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; population of Los Angeles would come in handy someday..<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;And we can use Soviet style "lots and lots of not much" defenses. Hell,<BR>&gt;&gt;clobber I-5 and your route of attack goes all to hell. :-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Feh.&nbsp; We just need to grab enough ground to build the Crater Lake Canal...<BR><BR>Won't get you much. Yes, the lake is deep. It's also *small*. And it<BR>won't refill very fast. <BR><BR>Besides, if some geologists are right, we might *let* you build the<BR>canal so as to "aim" the eruption your way. :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 23:02:28 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; [someone wrote:]<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; jump-emergence-point-moves-at-velocity-ship-had-when-it-jumped<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; achieves all the steering objectives.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Having the exit point moving with respect to the entrance point<BR>&gt;&gt; bothers me. A *lot*.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; If the entry point is stationary w.r.t. the ship at time of jump, and<BR>&gt; the jump emergence point is stationary w.r.t to entry point, then why<BR>&gt; are you bothered with the statement above?&nbsp; It appears to be exactly<BR>&gt; what you want.&nbsp; (Did I miss a smiley or something?)<BR><BR>The problem is that the distance between the entry and exit point<BR>varies according to the duration of the jump. And so does the direction<BR>of the line connecting them. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 23:04:21 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Reft sector X-boat link<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Anyway, everyone knows that terrorists use near-C rocks and there's<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; nothing the planet can do about it...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Maybe, depends on your TU. And even if they can, that's a lot harder to<BR>&gt;&gt; pull off than crashing a ship into a city. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I'd think it was basically identical.&nbsp; Accelerate ship (or rock) to<BR>&gt; relativistic speeds (or as much as your fuel supply lets you,<BR>&gt; depending on your TU), then jump to the desired system a few<BR>&gt; light-minutes to light-hours out (depending on speed).&nbsp; Perform course<BR>&gt; correction to make sure you hit the target planet.&nbsp; Bang.<BR><BR>Ah! but if you are moving at near C speeds, you *can't* perform the<BR>course corrections required. The higher your speed the more time it<BR>takes to change course...<BR><BR>&gt; People who come in at speeds low enough to stop before they hit the<BR>&gt; planet aren't likely to be using their ship as a terrorist weapon.<BR>&gt; People who jump in at 10000+ km/s probably aren't up to much good<BR>&gt; though.<BR><BR>And, if you do the math, they'll only hit the target thru sheer *luck*.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Outside the 100 diameter limit, I figure they'll forgive "errors" in<BR>&gt;&gt; exit vector. Failing correct them when contacted, and *especially*<BR>&gt;&gt; failing to follow your assigned flight path are going to get you a<BR>&gt;&gt; visit by a flight of fighters, or targeted by the space efense<BR>&gt;&gt; system.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Yes, I agree.&nbsp; 100-300 km/s exit velocity should be OK.&nbsp; Just make<BR>&gt; sure it isn't pointed exactly at the planet, and be sure you<BR>&gt; decelerate along the vector you're assigned once you exit jump.<BR><BR>Trajectory, not vector. Gravity *will* affect your course. And they'll<BR>want to keep you away from other ships, and from various orbital<BR>installations. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 11:28:57 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Traveller related (really!!)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Oh, and Warrant Officers... as someone pointed out, they hold <BR>&gt; a Warrant <BR>&gt; rather than a Commission from The Queen. The actual ranks are Warrant <BR>&gt; Officer Class One &amp; Warrant Officer Class Two. Both Sergeant <BR>&gt; Major and <BR>&gt; Regimental Sergeant Major are appointments normally held by <BR>&gt; people who are <BR>&gt; WO1 or WO2. (WO1 is the more senior, by the way.)<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Did you also refer to WO2's as 'Wollies', Mexal?<BR>I have from memories of my old Warrent officer, 'Wolly' Duncan :)<BR><BR><BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 08:48:10 -0500<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising<BR><BR>shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson) puts into the Ether:<BR>&gt; &gt;From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Subject: Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of DespisingEach O<BR>&gt;ther in<BR>&gt;...<BR>&gt; &gt;The important polls (i.e. the elections) showed that the Clinton win in 92<BR>&gt; &gt;was due to Perot splitting the right of center vote.<BR>&gt; &gt;Remember that Clinton never got a majority vote for President.&nbsp; His so<BR>&gt; &gt;called "landslide" in 96 was in the electoral college, his numbers in the<BR>&gt; &gt;popular vote were very low. Under one quarter of eligible voters were fired<BR>&gt; &gt;up enough about him to bother and vote for him.<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Or about just under half of those who did vote, yes?<BR><BR>Right.&nbsp; Getting a majority of the vote in 96 was a major campaign goal that<BR>was swept under the rug when it didn't happen.&nbsp; Note that George Swaythepopulus<BR>quit right after stating that the election gave WJBC a <BR>"mandate."&nbsp; Apparently even<BR>he had limits.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ironically, there's some debate being generated here about<BR>&gt;how our recent 60% turn-out is embarrasingly low...<BR><BR>I'm reminded about the lizards in "So Long and thanks for all the fish."<BR><BR><BR>- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>urbin@bigfoot.com http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/&nbsp; Opinions Mine!<BR>"The Clintonites, like pod people from a "Star Trek" adventure, have peeled<BR>off the thin layer of centrist rhetoric that they wore for the presidential<BR>campaign. We now learn that they are people genetically bred to inhabit the<BR>public sector. Their oxygen source is the moisture of taxes, which are <BR>remitted<BR>by the aliens in the private sector." -- Wall Street Journal February 19, 1993<BR>- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 08:52:35 -0500<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising<BR><BR>shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson) types:<BR>&gt; &gt;From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>&gt;...<BR>&gt; &gt;Clinton got caught with his pants down, literally. His _biggest_ crime<BR>&gt; &gt;was being elected as a Democrat when the Republicans thought that they<BR>&gt; &gt;owned 1600 Pennsylvania. They never forgave him that, even though the<BR>&gt; &gt;American public largely did. (At least enough to send him there for two<BR>&gt; &gt;terms.) Hell as it is the R's just _barely_ won it this time.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Some of our analysts put it less delicately than that, but<BR>&gt;a partly paralyzed Bush admin isn't the worst option to us...<BR><BR>I'm still amazed that people say "do nothing congress" like it's a bad thing...<BR><BR><BR>- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>www.urbin.net/EWW/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for<BR>burgers &amp; garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"<BR>- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 09:00:23 -0500<BR>From: "Anthony Colosetti" &lt;acoloset@kent.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Warrant Officer<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I'd like to mention how I use warrants IMTU.&nbsp; My campaign (on hiatus for<BR>winter break) currently centers around a Sydkai class detached cruiser.&nbsp; The<BR>Rebellion has just broken out and the players were reinstated at their<BR>former ranks and assigned to the Sydkai.&nbsp; The majority of the players are<BR>ex-navy or marine and when it came time to fit them in it was easy, but two<BR>of the players had ex-merchants.&nbsp; Just so I didn't have two players out of<BR>the chain of command I had warrants issued to them as civilian technical<BR>specialists (which fits in with the old British usage), one to the flight<BR>crew and one to the engineering section.&nbsp; Hope this helps...<BR><BR>Anthony<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 09:00:28 -0500<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Warrant Officers<BR><BR>Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt; types:<BR>&gt;As my dear, departed father - a CWO4 in the USN - often pointed out,<BR>&gt;warrants started as the bastard sons of the nobility; they weren't<BR>&gt;nobles, so they couldn't be commissioned, but they weren't commoners,<BR>&gt;either.<BR>&gt;And, according to my father, warrant officers were still the biggest<BR>&gt;bastards around.<BR><BR>My dad was a CWO2 in the Army of the United States.<BR>Considering that he is a card carrying member of the IOBA, I'd say that he<BR>agrees with your dad. :-)<BR>- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>Joan of Arc: the patron saint of welders http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 06:16:27 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: RE: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR><BR>&gt;From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: RE: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR>...<BR>&gt;Given that we're talking about a role-playing game, I personally find <BR>&gt;the lack of sincerity to be *reassuring*.&nbsp; It's the ones who actually <BR>&gt;take the _____ debates seriously that make me cautious.<BR><BR>&nbsp; "_____"?! What, you can't use the term "salad dressing" on the <BR>TML anymore? Did the Moral Majority get to you finally?!<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 09:46:04 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: flickering black globes useless?<BR><BR>Anthony Jackson writes:<BR>&gt;I did some computation with black globes, and discovered that a black globe<BR>&gt;in flicker mode seems to be just a disadvantage most of the time.<BR>&gt;Consider a 50% flicker rate black globe.<BR>&gt;It absorbs 50% of attacks.&nbsp; This is good.&nbsp; However, it also reduces <BR>&gt;acceleration by 50%, which reduces your evasive ability by 75%, with the<BR>&gt;result that unless you're at ranges too close to dodge, you get hit by twice<BR>&gt;as many shots after the black globe it applied.&nbsp; This seems bad...<BR>&gt;Thoughts?&nbsp; Is my math faulty?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Which version of Traveller are you using?&nbsp; I am only familiar with<BR>CT, so<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; my comments may of little use to you.&nbsp; First, the influence of a<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; flickering black globe (BG) on the enemy's chance to hit will depend on<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; your ship's agility.&nbsp; If you only have an agility of one or two,<BR>then a 50%<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; reduction will only give the enemy a +1 to hit.&nbsp; According to HG2, a<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; flickering BG is treated as armour: it acts as a DM on the damage table<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; (+2 for each 10% of flicker, IIRC).&nbsp; This will tend to reduce the<BR>severity<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; of damage taken and may eliminate some hits entirely.&nbsp; This 'armour<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; effect' affects mesons as well, and is the only way to reduce the<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; damage done by meson gun hits.&nbsp; I assume that the installation of a<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; BG generator includes systems to synchronize the ship's weaponry so<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; that the flickering BG does not affect the ship's own firing (HG2 is not<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; clear on this point).&nbsp; Hope this helps.<BR><BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 10:09:15 -0500<BR>From: Ethan Henry &lt;ethan.henry@sitraka.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Low standards<BR><BR>Please note that the subject _is_ "Low Standards" and no one's<BR>standards for decent films can fall much lower than mine...<BR><BR>Gordon Horne &lt;gordon.horne@home.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Koenig. I think Koenig should play Dulinor. Sean Connery would be<BR>&gt; Norris. I don't know who Jackie would be because there are several<BR>&gt; options. Head of Sol Sec would be O.K. though.<BR><BR>Jackie would play Strephon, so he could do the split-screen-twin-thing<BR>with his clone a la his various other "twin" movies. Obviously.<BR><BR>And to protray maximum incompetence, Dulinor would have, HAVE, to be <BR>played by Jean-Claude van Damme. Just imagne all the crazy faces, <BR>Jean-Claude pulling that drop-doing-the-splits-and-punching-the-other-<BR>guy-in-the-crotch trick againt some Marine in battledress (this is <BR>where the superdense chain-mail-skirt theory of battledress would have<BR>to come back into play). There's just no other way.<BR><BR>Ethan "Muscles from Illesh" Henry<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 15:12:34 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Low standards<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Please note that the subject _is_ "Low Standards" and no one's<BR>&gt; standards for decent films can fall much lower than mine...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Gordon Horne &lt;gordon.horne@home.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Koenig. I think Koenig should play Dulinor. Sean Connery would be<BR>&gt; &gt; Norris. I don't know who Jackie would be because there are several<BR>&gt; &gt; options. Head of Sol Sec would be O.K. though.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Jackie would play Strephon, so he could do the split-screen-twin-thing<BR>&gt; with his clone a la his various other "twin" movies. Obviously.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; And to protray maximum incompetence, Dulinor would have, HAVE, to be <BR>&gt; played by Jean-Claude van Damme. Just imagne all the crazy faces, <BR>&gt; Jean-Claude pulling that drop-doing-the-splits-and-punching-the-other-<BR>&gt; guy-in-the-crotch trick againt some Marine in battledress (this is <BR>&gt; where the superdense chain-mail-skirt theory of battledress would have<BR>&gt; to come back into play). There's just no other way.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>We gotta find a part for Steven Segal. Trace Windhook, perhaps? :)<BR><BR>"I'm not with Naval Intelligence, I'm just the cook"<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 07:38:57 -0800<BR>From: "Bruce Macintosh" &lt;bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; [bruce wrote:]<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; jump-emergence-point-moves-at-velocity-ship-had-when-it-jumped<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; achieves all the steering objectives.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Having the exit point moving with respect to the entrance point<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; bothers me. A *lot*.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Tsk, you know about relativity, you should know that "velocity<BR>&gt;&gt; relative to an event" is a meangless concept.&nbsp; Which frame of<BR>&gt;&gt; reference is the 'entry point' stationary in?&nbsp; Why that one and no<BR>&gt;&gt; others?<BR>&gt;The frame of the ship that's making the jump, naturally. :-)<BR>Which does, of course, cause the jump point to move with the<BR>velocity the ship had when it jumped. (Leonard knows this, I can tell.)<BR><BR>Bruce<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 15:46:37 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Warrant Officers<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; At 9:05 AM -0800 12/20/00, AuricTech Shipyards wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;Note that warrant officers in the US military, unlike those in<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; {wholesale snip}<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Thanks; that actually helps a lot.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; For the British(-style) militaries, though, I'm still not at all <BR>&gt; clear what the difference is between a W.O. and top NCOs/junior <BR>&gt; officers aside from the human resources issue of holding a warrant. <BR>&gt; What's the big deal?<BR><BR>WOs can demand officer-level perks but still bawl you out for calling them<BR>'Sir' if they feel like it :)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 15:58:46 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Trans-Atlantic Invasion<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;From: Steve Charlton &lt;steve.charlton@ifsna.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Subject: Trans-Atlantic Invasion<BR>&gt; ...<BR>&gt; &gt;I read in an issue of Military History (or Military History <BR>&gt; Quarterly; all<BR>&gt; &gt;the names are far too similar!) that a plan was drawn up in <BR>&gt; late 1940 for a<BR>&gt; &gt;cross-atlantic invasion of Europe, in case the UK <BR>&gt; surrendered or was invaded.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;You have probably read about how seasick and weak some of <BR>&gt; the troops were<BR>&gt; &gt;after shipping to France from England on D-Day.&nbsp; Can you <BR>&gt; imagine how bad the<BR>&gt; &gt;troops would have been after a trans-Atlantic crossing?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; It wouldn't be _too_ bad - the Irish wouldn't have been able<BR>&gt; to put up too much effective resistance :|<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Are you kidding? It's taken Great Britain about 200 years and a devolved<BR>parliament to persuade the various sects in N.I. to stop blowing things up,<BR>and the situation still isn't exactly stable.<BR><BR><BR>Dean<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 16:07:08 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: BITS adventures...<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Dominic Mooney [mailto:dom@cybergoths.u-net.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 19 December 2000 19:54<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: BITS adventures...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; At 18:33 -0500 18/12/00,&nbsp; "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" <BR>&gt; &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;Tee-Hee, BITS ACQ just arrived 2-day... Am I glad that I <BR>&gt; finally got a<BR>&gt; &gt;campaign rolling again, after almost a decade of not actually PLAYING<BR>&gt; &gt;Traveller. THIS _will_ be of use ;-)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Enjoy; Doug and James did a really good job on that book.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; As someone just pointed out to me on another list, you basically get <BR>&gt; a ready made game if you pair ACQ with the new Beowulf deckplans from <BR>&gt; Steve Jackson Games as apparently they have some Cardboard Heros in <BR>&gt; too.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Yup. All shipped a couple of days ago. You want a summary of how it plays<BR>when mine turns up?<BR><BR>Dean <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 10:34:52 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Question: Traveller Star System/planet program?<BR><BR>I need a good program to roll up Traveller star systems and worlds.&nbsp; I'd<BR>like to be able to enter the UPP (and any exteneded info I might have<BR>like the number of gas giants in system) and run with it.<BR><BR>I need to be able to both flesh out worlds and flesh out solar systems<BR>(maybe I need two programs?).<BR><BR>I've seen talk of this Heaven &amp; Earth program...comments on that?&nbsp; Where<BR>can I download it?<BR><BR>What are the other Traveller programs out there that you like?&nbsp; Where<BR>can I download them?<BR><BR>Thanks,<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 16:49:14 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Question: Traveller Star System/planet program?<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I need a good program to roll up Traveller star systems and <BR>&gt; worlds.&nbsp; I'd<BR>&gt; like to be able to enter the UPP (and any exteneded info I might have<BR>&gt; like the number of gas giants in system) and run with it.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I need to be able to both flesh out worlds and flesh out solar systems<BR>&gt; (maybe I need two programs?).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I've seen talk of this Heaven &amp; Earth program...comments on <BR>&gt; that?&nbsp; Where<BR>&gt; can I download it?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; What are the other Traveller programs out there that you like?&nbsp; Where<BR>&gt; can I download them?<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Heaven and Earth is on Stuart Ferris' Webpage here:<BR>http://freespace.virgin.net/stuart.ferris/index.htm<BR><BR>I personally can't speak for the program, as I only downloaded it yesterday<BR>and haven't had a moment to run it yet, but the screenshots look great and<BR>list feedback has seemed very positive.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 09:07:55 -0800<BR>From: "Dave Strebe" &lt;strebe@intergate.bc.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question: Traveller Star System/planet program?<BR><BR>H&amp;E will do what you want. you can get it from Bits<BR><BR>http://www.bits.org.uk/<BR><BR>go to the archive they have a link there for it<BR>or go straight to<BR><BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/BITS_website/Heaven_and_Earth/HEAVEN_and_EAR<BR>TH.html<BR><BR>have fun.<BR><BR>Dave<BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions" &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>To: "Traveller" &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 8:34 AM<BR>Subject: Question: Traveller Star System/planet program?<BR><BR><BR>&gt; I need a good program to roll up Traveller star systems and worlds.&nbsp; I'd<BR>&gt; like to be able to enter the UPP (and any exteneded info I might have<BR>&gt; like the number of gas giants in system) and run with it.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I need to be able to both flesh out worlds and flesh out solar systems<BR>&gt; (maybe I need two programs?).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I've seen talk of this Heaven &amp; Earth program...comments on that?&nbsp; Where<BR>&gt; can I download it?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; What are the other Traveller programs out there that you like?&nbsp; Where<BR>&gt; can I download them?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Thanks,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Kenneth.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 09:03:05 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Low standards<BR><BR>On Thu, 21 Dec 2000, Gordon Horne wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;No Walter Koenig has to do that, he plays head of PsiCorp so well in Bab5.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Jackie should play Dulinor.<BR>&gt; &gt;Who else can walk into the Imperial palace by himself, get through all the<BR>&gt; &gt;guards, shoot the (ersatz) emperor and get back out again believably ?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Koenig. I think Koenig should play Dulinor. Sean Connery would be <BR>&gt; Norris. I don't know who Jackie would be because there are several <BR>&gt; options. Head of Sol Sec would be O.K. though.<BR>&gt; <BR>I dunno who Jackie should be, but I want Takeshi Kaneshiro and Hideaki<BR>Takizawa to get parts doing something, even if it's just standing around<BR>looking sexy.<BR><BR>your completely unbiased (g) input from<BR><BR>kirichan ^_^<BR>******************************************************************************<BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 93!&nbsp; Thou Art God<BR>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR><BR>"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>Desire is embraced in a dream..."&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- X-JAPAN<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 09:22:17 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR><BR>Ian Ferguson writes:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Which version of Traveller are you using?<BR><BR>None, I'm mathematically analysing what a flickering black globe would actually<BR>do.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:34:48 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Commie Atheist Films (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3417)<BR><BR>At 1:32 PM +1000 12/21/00, Alan Bradley wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;It is, of course, a _fabulous_ film.&nbsp; One every TMLer should aspire to see<BR>&gt;at least once in their lives.&nbsp; The design of the "Martian" sets is really<BR>&gt;interesting - I don't know enough about art to name the style they use, but<BR>&gt;it is classic early twentieth century "modern".<BR><BR>I've seen it described as Constructivist, but that label tends to get <BR>slapped on any piece of work by non-emigre Russians between 1905 and <BR>oh, say, 1945 ;(&nbsp; I honestly don't know, either, but it's well worth <BR>taking a look at.&nbsp; Fritz Lang openly attributed the look of his <BR>_Metropolis_ to Protazanov's _Aelita_, for example.<BR><BR>&gt;It was also made in the<BR>&gt;brief gap between the Civil War and the rise of Stalin, and there are<BR>&gt;interesting, if rather tragic hints as to what was to come - one of the<BR>&gt;characters is a classic bureaucratic opportunist of the kind that was soon<BR>&gt;to come to power in reality.<BR><BR>I suspect he was meant, at the time, to represent the sort of <BR>character that thrived in the Tsarist regime, which was still very <BR>much on people's minds -- though in a later decade it could certainly <BR>be re-interpreted.<BR><BR>Five or six years ago I tried to find a copy of the movie to see it <BR>again, and came up with absolutely nothing, in any format.&nbsp; I'm glad <BR>to know it's more available now -- a strong case can be made that <BR>it's the ultimate source of the "futuristic style" in film.<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:37:00 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Noble vs. military rank<BR><BR>At 7:35 PM +1300 12/21/00, Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Though one could also argue that the people calling her that didn't know any<BR>&gt;better.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;When she was dragged out of the wreckage of the Sularco, the details the<BR>&gt;prison staff had on her would probably have refered to her as Lieutenant, as<BR>&gt;she was attached to the Sularco on that rank.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;And by the time of the 4th movie, the military command people on the ship<BR>&gt;may have only had the Sularco records left. Or they may have known but were<BR>&gt;trying to convince her she was a military officer so she would take orders.<BR><BR>Ah!&nbsp; Not a bad idea, not a bad idea at all!&nbsp; Though they did know, at <BR>least, that Ripley had been an employee of the now-defunct <BR>Weyland-Yutani corporation.<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:40:46 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Noble vs. military rank<BR><BR>At 8:09 PM +1300 12/21/00, Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>&gt;Kenji Schwarz wrote :<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; The idea that Winona be given any valid role in an Aliens movie other<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; than entertaining the Colonial Marines with her now well-known<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; ping-pong ball trick is a disgrace.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;You learn something new every day!<BR>&gt;I didn't know Winona was known for her verison of the ping-pong ball trick.<BR><BR>In the movie _South Park_, the US troops preparing to invade Canada <BR>are treated to entertainment consisting of a dog doing backflips, Big <BR>Gay Al's musical number, Winona Ryder and the pingpong balls, and a <BR>public execution.<BR><BR>ObTrav:&nbsp; What are the USO shows like in the 3I?<BR><BR>&gt;I'm asuming this is the same ping-pong ball trick that the girls down Boogie<BR>&gt;St used to do, using the same equipment they used to pick up coins, open<BR>&gt;beer bottles, and put out candles?<BR><BR>So we were led to believe, yes.<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 09:46:21 -0800<BR>From: "Pronto" &lt;pronto_r031@telus.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Noble vs. military rank<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;I didn't know Winona was known for her verison of the ping-pong ball<BR>trick.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; In the movie _South Park_, the US troops preparing to invade Canada<BR>&gt; are treated to entertainment consisting of a dog doing backflips, Big<BR>&gt; Gay Al's musical number, Winona Ryder and the pingpong balls, and a<BR>&gt; public execution.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ObTrav:&nbsp; What are the USO shows like in the 3I?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;I'm asuming this is the same ping-pong ball trick that the girls down<BR>Boogie<BR>&gt; &gt;St used to do, using the same equipment they used to pick up coins, open<BR>&gt; &gt;beer bottles, and put out candles?<BR>&gt;<BR>I am really relieved to say, I have no idea what you are talking about.<BR><BR>Pronto<BR>AKA Brian Taylor<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3445<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Thursday, December 21 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3446<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Thought for Eris<BR>H &amp; LOTR (Was Re: Shannara (was Re: DUNE Messiah!))<BR>Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>RE: Low standards<BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>Re: Jump Emergence (was re: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>RE: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising<BR>RE: Low standards<BR>RE: Low standards<BR>RE: Commie Atheist Films and Artistic Stylings<BR>RE: Low standards<BR>Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising<BR>Re: Question: Traveller Star System/planet program?<BR>RE: Low standards<BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>Re: Low standards<BR>Need Aramanx stuff<BR>Re: Warrant Officers<BR>Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>RE: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising<BR>Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 09:52:08 -0800<BR>From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>Subject: Re: Thought for Eris<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I had another thought for Traveller game mechanics (although I think<BR>&gt; KB3 is better), but I knew you've been playin' around with mechanics. <BR>&gt; So, I thought I'd throw the idea your way.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I've seen this used in other RPGs.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; What if you took your Traveller skill level and used that as a number<BR>&gt; of dice to throw (like KB3), but you're only looking for the result on<BR>&gt; one or two dice?<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>Sound a lot like the Silhouette system used by Dream Pod: 9 in <BR>Heavy Gear, Jovian Chronicles, and Tribe 8.&nbsp; It works great too.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Every skill level = 1 d6.&nbsp; Roll them and take the highest.&nbsp; Also, <BR>every 6 after the first adds +1 to the final result (ie 2 6s = 7). <BR><BR>Skill level 0 means you roll 2 d6 and take the lowest.<BR><BR>Stats modifiers are then added on to the result.&nbsp; Difficulty ratings <BR>range from 2 (really easy) to 10 (impossibly hard).&nbsp; <BR><BR>This system ports to Traveller very easily.&nbsp; You use Stat/5 (round <BR>down) -1 (giving a 0 for the 5-9 range) for the stat modifier, and <BR>each skill level = 1 die and you're ready to play.&nbsp; I've found it to be <BR>about&nbsp; as good as MT task system and somewhat easier to <BR>remember and use.<BR><BR>- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 19:51:20 +0200 (EET)<BR>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;<BR>Subject: H &amp; LOTR (Was Re: Shannara (was Re: DUNE Messiah!))<BR><BR>On Wed, 20 Dec 2000, Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>&gt; The Hobbit _is_ a childrens book. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Lord of the Rings, most emphatically, is not.<BR><BR>Hm, I was very much a child when I read it the first time. Perhaps that<BR>could be connected to the fact that I had read most children and<BR>adolescent book in our house and the local library very early. B-)<BR><BR>Recently I have been enjoying Harry Potters. Maybe I am regressing...<BR><BR>I read LotH last spring and got mostly bored. This, on the other hand can<BR>be the direct consequence of the fact that this was the twentieth time I<BR>read it...<BR><BR>Still, the beginning could be more compact.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>+++++++++[&gt;+++++++++&lt;-]&gt;-.&lt;+++++[&gt;+++&lt;-]++&gt;++.&lt;++[&gt;++++&lt;-]+&gt;+.&lt;++[&gt;----<BR>&lt;-]&gt;-.&gt;+++[&gt;++++++++++&lt;-]++&gt;++pare@iki.fi&lt;+[&gt;++++&lt;-]&gt;+.-&gt;+[&gt;++++[&lt;&lt;---&gt;<BR>&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;.&gt;&gt;+++++++[&lt;++++++++++&gt;-]++++[&lt;+++++&gt;-]&lt;-.&gt;[-]&gt;+++[&gt;++[&lt;&lt;&lt;----&gt;&gt;<BR>&lt;&gt;&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;&lt;.+.&gt;[-]++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;.++.[-]&gt;[-]++++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;++.&gt;&gt;++[&gt;++[&gt;-&lt;-]&lt;--]<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 19:57:49 +0200 (EET)<BR>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>On Thu, 21 Dec 2000, Megan Robertson wrote:<BR>&gt; In-Reply-To: &lt;200012200444.WAA07878@pompano.pcola.gulf.net&gt;<BR>&gt; Greetings dear hearts.<BR>&gt; &gt;Come to Oregon, and we will let you shoot machineguns.<BR>&gt; Oooh... you tempt me, you really do :-)<BR><BR>This tempts me, too. B-)<BR><BR>Shooting machineguns is really fun. What kind of targets do you use?<BR><BR>(Sadly I never got to fire AA MG in the military. LMG was really fun.<BR>LAW too, although I never hit anything...)<BR><BR>Of course, I could ask if I could get into rehearsals... But it would mean<BR>living in the woods for days -&gt; not very likely worth it.<BR><BR>&gt; Now to figure out a way to raise the airfare &amp; find somewhere to stay <BR>&gt; and...<BR><BR>It will be hard to reason this with my SO. B-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>+++++++++[&gt;+++++++++&lt;-]&gt;-.&lt;+++++[&gt;+++&lt;-]++&gt;++.&lt;++[&gt;++++&lt;-]+&gt;+.&lt;++[&gt;----<BR>&lt;-]&gt;-.&gt;+++[&gt;++++++++++&lt;-]++&gt;++pare@iki.fi&lt;+[&gt;++++&lt;-]&gt;+.-&gt;+[&gt;++++[&lt;&lt;---&gt;<BR>&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;.&gt;&gt;+++++++[&lt;++++++++++&gt;-]++++[&lt;+++++&gt;-]&lt;-.&gt;[-]&gt;+++[&gt;++[&lt;&lt;&lt;----&gt;&gt;<BR>&lt;&gt;&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;&lt;.+.&gt;[-]++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;.++.[-]&gt;[-]++++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;++.&gt;&gt;++[&gt;++[&gt;-&lt;-]&lt;--]<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 13:03:30 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Low standards<BR><BR>At 8:34 PM +1300 12/21/00, Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Kenji Schwarz wrote :<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; Okay, what the hell, a family language violation warning for my<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; vaguely on-topic discussion of sci-fi movies coming up below:<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; I mean, clearly Sigourney Weaver is simply far too *old* for the<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; target audience to be able to jerk off to;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;ooo, I don't know the tentacle hentai scene was pretty hot.<BR><BR>I knew *I* certainly wasn't in the target audience; I think this just <BR>means you weren't either.&nbsp; ("The company doesn't give a shit about <BR>the likes of us.")<BR><BR>As to ahhhh, that scene and the next, erm, well, at least *I* am in <BR>the US and have the Fifth Amendment to protect me against <BR>self-incrimination.&nbsp; I think.<BR><BR>&gt;The thing that really got my rocks off was the "hang upside down from a<BR>&gt;chain with two guns blazing" bit, though the spring loaded guns were good<BR>&gt;too.<BR><BR>Shooting over or around your two colleagues between you and the <BR>Alien, at that :)<BR><BR>&gt;The Aliens in water were exciting also.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; Thank god Chow Yun Fat didn't get that part.&nbsp; The movie really called<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; for Jackie Chan, if they did need to get a chic HK action star used<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; to comic-book production values.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; Come on, admit it, you guys, you WANT to see Jackie take on a couple<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; Aliens.&nbsp; It'd be great!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I can imagine the ladder scene now.<BR><BR>Jackie sees the Alien clambering up the ladder at him; eyes bug out comically.<BR><BR>Jackie jumps off the ladder, bounces off the Alien's big rubbery <BR>head, flies across the elevator shaft, grabs onto something.<BR><BR>Aliens pursues Jackie.&nbsp; Grinning like a fool, Jackie bounces around <BR>the walls, swinging from pipes, ladders, and chains, with the Alien <BR>in hot pursuit.<BR><BR>Two humorous accidents occur, one of which involves Jackie's testicles.<BR><BR>Jackie grabs on to the Alien's tail and ties it around a big wheel, <BR>then resumes his escape up the ladder.<BR><BR>The Alien -- screeching -- tries to pursue, pulls on the wheel so <BR>hard it turns, and opens an overhead valve, burying the Alien under <BR>tons of gumballs.<BR><BR>Jackie looks pleased and says a witty thing which is mangled by the <BR>dubbers beyond all recognition.<BR><BR>&gt;No Walter Koenig has to do that, he plays head of PsiCorp so well in Bab5.<BR><BR>Good point.<BR><BR>&gt;Jackie should play Dulinor.<BR>&gt;Who else can walk into the Imperial palace by himself, get through all the<BR>&gt;guards, shoot the (ersatz) emperor and get back out again believably ?<BR><BR>Ahhhhh... brilliant casting.&nbsp; Yes.<BR><BR><BR>Keji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 10:06:48 -0800<BR>From: "Bruce Macintosh" &lt;bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; jump-emergence-point-moves-at-velocity-ship-had-when-it-jumped<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; achieves all the steering objectives.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Having the exit point moving with respect to the entrance point<BR>&gt; bothers me. A *lot*.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;The problem is that the distance between the entry and exit point<BR>&gt;varies according to the duration of the jump. And so does the direction<BR>&gt;of the line connecting them.<BR><BR>In a frame of reference in which the ship is moving when it jumps, this<BR>is true, such as the frame of reference of the departure star. On the<BR>other hand, there are other frames of reference in which it is not true,<BR>in particular the frame of reference of the ship itself just before jump,<BR>in which it is stationary (of course), so the jump exit point is stationary.<BR>In fact, one could argue that this is the only frame of reference that makes<BR>sense to give special privledges too.<BR><BR>Another way to think of it: in lots of frames of reference the jump entry point<BR>moves with time too..."points" can only be stationary in one frame of reference.<BR><BR>(ie, consider the case some have suggested where the jump entry and exit points<BR>are fixed with respect to the departure and target worlds. In the frame of<BR>reference<BR>of, say, the parent star of the target world, the exit point is clearly moving<BR>with time.<BR>When you say you want the exit point to be stationary, you have to specify which<BR>frame of reference you want it to be stationary in. I want it to be stationary<BR>in the<BR>frame of reference the ship had just before jump; that's as good as any other<BR>reference, and makes the navigation question nice and easy if you match<BR>velocities<BR>with your target before jump. Since this is (a) a nice consistent answer (not<BR>giving special privledges to any other reference frame), (b) removes the issue<BR>of jump duration changes moving you away from the target, which is nice for<BR>canon, and (c) gives navigators a bit more to do, and (d) makes it easier to<BR>keep fleets together when they jump, I can't see why anyone would object to it.<BR><BR>Bruce<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 20:07:43 +0200 (EET)<BR>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump Emergence (was re: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>On Thu, 21 Dec 2000, Alan Bradley wrote:<BR>&gt; Fortunately, however, near-C-Rats and Astro Gators eat jump worms.<BR><BR>Lucky thing I was not eating on drinking, would have been a keyboard<BR>kill...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>+++++++++[&gt;+++++++++&lt;-]&gt;-.&lt;+++++[&gt;+++&lt;-]++&gt;++.&lt;++[&gt;++++&lt;-]+&gt;+.&lt;++[&gt;----<BR>&lt;-]&gt;-.&gt;+++[&gt;++++++++++&lt;-]++&gt;++pare@iki.fi&lt;+[&gt;++++&lt;-]&gt;+.-&gt;+[&gt;++++[&lt;&lt;---&gt;<BR>&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;.&gt;&gt;+++++++[&lt;++++++++++&gt;-]++++[&lt;+++++&gt;-]&lt;-.&gt;[-]&gt;+++[&gt;++[&lt;&lt;&lt;----&gt;&gt;<BR>&lt;&gt;&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;&lt;.+.&gt;[-]++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;.++.[-]&gt;[-]++++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;++.&gt;&gt;++[&gt;++[&gt;-&lt;-]&lt;--]<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 13:05:04 -0500<BR>From: "Chris Seamans" &lt;semo@pil.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising<BR><BR>Mark Urbin wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;I'm still amazed that people say "do nothing congress" like it's a bad<BR>thing...<BR><BR>Like the old joke goes: The opposite of congress is progress. :)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 13:21:16 -0500<BR>From: "Paul Drye" &lt;p_drye@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Low standards<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;I can imagine the ladder scene now.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Jackie sees the Alien clambering up the ladder at him; eyes bug out <BR>&gt;comically.<BR><BR>(snip)<BR><BR>Don't forget the blooper, shown during the credits, where the Alien <BR>accidentally decapitates Jackie yet he manages to resume filming a scant <BR>forty-five minutes later -- fake plaster head in place....<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Paul Drye<BR><BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 13:22:41 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Low standards<BR><BR>At 12:12 AM -0800 12/21/00, Gordon Horne wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;No Walter Koenig has to do that, he plays head of PsiCorp so well in Bab5.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Jackie should play Dulinor.<BR>&gt;&gt;Who else can walk into the Imperial palace by himself, get through all the<BR>&gt;&gt;guards, shoot the (ersatz) emperor and get back out again believably ?<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Koenig. I think Koenig should play Dulinor. Sean Connery would be <BR>&gt;Norris. I don't know who Jackie would be because there are several <BR>&gt;options. Head of Sol Sec would be O.K. though.<BR><BR><BR>Well, let's say we were casting a HK action (or HK-action-influenced) <BR>version of The Traveller Movie.&nbsp; I seem to recall that a few years <BR>back we managed to cast the Dignified Shakespearean version.<BR><BR>I think Leslie Cheung needs to be our hero Norris (leading man <BR>heartthrob type, with rumors about sexual orientation).&nbsp; Need to <BR>'age' him a bit with makeup, but doable.&nbsp; Or else have him play the <BR>mad prince Lucan and pop Fat into Norris' role... might work better.<BR><BR>Tony Leung for the tortured, heartbroken Strephon?&nbsp; The guy suffers <BR>real good.&nbsp; Or maybe Chu Kong, even though he's not as big a name.<BR><BR>Margaret -- Brigitte Lin, no?<BR><BR>I was going to suggest Quentin Tarrantino get a walk-on as Lt. <BR>Windhook, but the suggestion of Steven Segal is certainly better. <BR>Also, I'd like to see Chuck Norris cast as the Aslan ambassador who <BR>buys it.&nbsp; Either that or Archduke Brrk.<BR><BR>But yes, Jackie Chan IS Dulinor.<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 13:19:49 -0500<BR>From: "Chris Seamans" &lt;semo@pil.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Commie Atheist Films and Artistic Stylings<BR><BR>Trent Smith wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;'Aelita, Queen of Mars' is available on video (in the US) from Kino, as<BR>part<BR>&gt;of their 'Red Silents' series (along with lots of other great, little known<BR>&gt;films).&nbsp; If you try hard enough, you should definitely be able to track<BR>this<BR>&gt;down Somewhere.&nbsp; For instance, Eddie Brandt's Saturday Matinee in North<BR>&gt;Hollywood -- I'd be willing to guarantee they've got it, and they do<BR>rentals<BR>&gt;by mail-order.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thanks Trent, I appreciate the information. Maybe I'll get a chance to see<BR>it in the near future.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 11:49:37 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: RE: Low standards<BR><BR>On 12/21/00 at 12:12 AM,&nbsp; Gordon Horne &lt;gordon.horne@home.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;No Walter Koenig has to do that, he plays head of PsiCorp so well in Bab5.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Jackie should play Dulinor.<BR><BR>Frank, I take it you don't like Jackie...wishing Dulinor on him. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Who else can walk into the Imperial palace by himself, get through all the<BR>&gt;&gt;guards, shoot the (ersatz) emperor and get back out again believably ?<BR><BR>&gt;Koenig. I think Koenig should play Dulinor. Sean Connery would be <BR>&gt;Norris. I don't know who Jackie would be because there are several <BR>&gt;options. Head of Sol Sec would be O.K. though.<BR><BR>No! No! <BR><BR>You need someone with more "gravitis" to play Dulinor...and play him like a tragic anti-hero. Connery could do it, but he's getting a little long in the tooth.&nbsp; Maybe Sam Neil?<BR><BR>Connery is too old for Norris, too.&nbsp; I'd go with Harrison Ford for Norris.<BR><BR>I think you should cast Connery as Stephron. He's the right age and he has both a good death scene early, some tragic ones a little later and chances to be strong and noble toward the end.<BR><BR>Koenig would be a good choice for Lucan's Head of Security, but who would play Lucan?&nbsp; Ron Perlman? <BR><BR>Jackie Chan wouldn't fit into this sort of film, but if I was doing "The Traveller Movie" it wouldn't have the assassination as its plot anyway.&nbsp; Jackie Chan needs *action*, so let's put him with a typical &lt;sic&gt; PC group...don't we all have a crazy combat monster or two? &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Eris <BR><BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:00:28 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising<BR><BR>On 12/21/00 at 08:52 AM,&nbsp; Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Some of our analysts put it less delicately than that, but<BR>&gt;&gt;a partly paralyzed Bush admin isn't the worst option to us...<BR><BR>&gt;I'm still amazed that people say "do nothing congress" like it's a<BR>&gt;bad thing...<BR><BR>Same here.&nbsp; You know the American people have more sense than even we give ourselves credit for. We instinctively know that evenly splitting the vote means we will end up with a "do nothing", and when there aren't big things to do that's what most of us really want. Heck! We elected Reagen and Clinton to two terms each didn't we? &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Now, personally, I've been complaining about the opportuntities we're missing since the early 70's. We've frittered away so much time, so many resources...,&lt;sigh&gt;...the world could be running on solar power by now, we could have colonies in orbit and on the Moon, outposts on Mars, and be well on our way to the stars. You know, if we keep frittering away time we may stay mundanes forever.<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:25:45 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Question: Traveller Star System/planet program?<BR><BR>On 12/21/00 at 10:34 AM,&nbsp; Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;I need a good program to roll up Traveller star systems and worlds. <BR>&gt;I'd like to be able to enter the UPP (and any exteneded info I<BR>&gt;might have like the number of gas giants in system) and run with<BR>&gt;it.<BR><BR>&gt;I need to be able to both flesh out worlds and flesh out solar<BR>&gt;systems (maybe I need two programs?).<BR><BR>&gt;I've seen talk of this Heaven &amp; Earth program...comments on that? <BR><BR>H&amp;E might be what you want.&nbsp; It can generate systems and the worlds in the system, all the way down to animal encounter charts, lists of NPC's and possible cargos.&nbsp; It is very big, takes a *lot* of resources, takes a *long* time to generate large numbers of systems (it takes a minute or two to detail each one on a 500mh pentium III), runs only on Win9x/NT (and maybe W2k), still has some bugs, it's freeware, but its author has just recently said he's stopping all work on and support for it.&nbsp; I don't think Stuart finished the world editor he was working on, and that's too bad! The editor would have (or will if he got it done) let you add/remove gas giants, belts, change the stats of individual worlds, and move worlds around in the system. I was looking forward to trying that out, but haven't been able to participate in his beta testing during the fall because of work.&nbsp; You should check it out, though, it still might be all you need.<BR><BR>&gt;Where can I download it?<BR><BR>http://www.downport.com&nbsp; I think that's the right url.<BR><BR>&gt;What are the other Traveller programs out there that you like? <BR><BR>I like Starsys (Ace and the Dog Software)...don't have the url at the moment...for quick and dirty uwp generation of the planets in a system. It isn't nearly as detailed, but it's fast and free. Runs under Windows.<BR><BR>I'm leaving out a couple, drawing a blank at the moment, but I'm sure someone will fill my blank in. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;Where can I download them?<BR><BR>Downport is a good place to start.<BR><BR>&gt;Thanks,<BR><BR>You're welcome.<BR><BR>I'm always looking for good system generation software. I've never found exactly want I wanted. but H&amp;E was getting close, shame Stuart burned out on it.<BR><BR>Eris<BR><BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 13:31:11 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Low standards<BR><BR>At 9:03 AM -0800 12/21/00, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;I dunno who Jackie should be, but I want Takeshi Kaneshiro and Hideaki<BR>&gt;Takizawa to get parts doing something, even if it's just standing around<BR>&gt;looking sexy.<BR><BR>Aha! Well, clearly then we're looking at Dilgaadin and... hm. <BR>Another "personal assistant" wink-wink?<BR><BR>I know Takeshi Kaneshiro (Jin Chengwu to the anti-Japanese ;) ) but <BR>who's the other one?<BR><BR>Oh, wait... we also need to figure out who plays Seldrian.&nbsp; Could be tricky.<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 10:01:35 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [bruce wrote:]<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; jump-emergence-point-moves-at-velocity-ship-had-when-it-jumped<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; achieves all the steering objectives.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Having the exit point moving with respect to the entrance point<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; bothers me. A *lot*.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Tsk, you know about relativity, you should know that "velocity<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; relative to an event" is a meangless concept.&nbsp; Which frame of<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; reference is the 'entry point' stationary in?&nbsp; Why that one and no<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; others?<BR>&gt;&gt;The frame of the ship that's making the jump, naturally. :-)<BR>&gt; Which does, of course, cause the jump point to move with the<BR>&gt; velocity the ship had when it jumped. (Leonard knows this, I can tell.)<BR><BR>But which *won't* have it move with the target!<BR><BR>But good point...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 10:10:02 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; No Walter Koenig has to do that, he plays head of PsiCorp so well in Bab5.<BR><BR>Who would have guessed that Chekov could do "bastard" so well?<BR><BR>BTW, watching the Babylon5 re-runs on the SciFi channel, I'm very<BR>impressed by the way he can say innocent things, in an innocent way,<BR>yet somehow manage to make them anything *but* innocent, just because<BR>*he* is saying them. <BR><BR>He'd make a *great* Tvarchedl(sp) officer.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:45:08 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Need Aramanx stuff<BR><BR>I'm about to flesh out the Aramanx encounter in the Traveller Adventure<BR>for my game.&nbsp; Before I recreate the wheel, I always like to see if<BR>anybody else has put in some elbow grease--I try to share my stuff, and<BR>I like to steal from others.&nbsp; It makes a GM's life easier.<BR><BR>Anybody know of any web pages out there with (any type of) details on<BR>Aramanx?<BR><BR>Thanks,<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 10:15:32 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Warrant Officers<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt; types:<BR>&gt;&gt;As my dear, departed father - a CWO4 in the USN - often pointed out,<BR>&gt;&gt;warrants started as the bastard sons of the nobility; they weren't<BR>&gt;&gt;nobles, so they couldn't be commissioned, but they weren't commoners,<BR>&gt;&gt;either.<BR>&gt;&gt;And, according to my father, warrant officers were still the biggest<BR>&gt;&gt;bastards around.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; My dad was a CWO2 in the Army of the United States.<BR>&gt; Considering that he is a card carrying member of the IOBA, I'd say that he<BR>&gt; agrees with your dad. :-)<BR><BR>IOBA?<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 10:51:48 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; On Thu, 21 Dec 2000, Megan Robertson wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; In-Reply-To: &lt;200012200444.WAA07878@pompano.pcola.gulf.net&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Greetings dear hearts.<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;Come to Oregon, and we will let you shoot machineguns.<BR>&gt;&gt; Oooh... you tempt me, you really do :-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; This tempts me, too. B-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Shooting machineguns is really fun. What kind of targets do you use?<BR><BR>Balloons, jugs full of water, bowling pins (I kept the remains of one<BR>as a souvenir), large metal disks (I assume they were the "lids" from<BR>55 gallon drums), etc.<BR><BR>They had a couple of silhouette targets too. A triceratops and a tank...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 10:59:19 -0800<BR>From: "Jesse Degraff" &lt;jedegraf@cisco.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>Target-wise we periodically call the range cold and set out water jugs,<BR>bowling pins, and strings of balloons at 50yds and 100yds (that's ~48m &amp;<BR>91.5m for you metric types ;).&nbsp; There are also 55gallon (208ltr) drum lids<BR>at 100yds and, IIRC, 150yds, and plywood silhouettes of a tank and a (no<BR>lie!) triceratops at 150yds as well.&nbsp; So, it's a very target-rich<BR>environment, though the jugs and balloons go pretty quick each time the<BR>range goes hot again :)&nbsp; There were also a couple of apples that were thrown<BR>out to the 50yd line that became instant competitions to see who could hit<BR>it first.<BR><BR>One of the fun things about this range and shoot, coming from ranges here in<BR>Kalifornia that require 2 seconds btwn. each shot, is practicing rapid fire<BR>techniques :)&nbsp; It was also really fun hitting the drum lids at 100yds. with<BR>my .45 USP, Mark's S&amp;W .22, and another friends HK P7M8 9mm.&nbsp; Takes a pretty<BR>steady hand, lemme' tell ya'!<BR><BR>Jesse<BR><BR>"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety<BR>deserve neither liberty nor safety."<BR>- -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759<BR><BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Mikko V. I.<BR>&gt; Parviainen<BR>&gt; Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 9:58 AM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground<BR>&gt; Forces))<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; On Thu, 21 Dec 2000, Megan Robertson wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; In-Reply-To: &lt;200012200444.WAA07878@pompano.pcola.gulf.net&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Greetings dear hearts.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;Come to Oregon, and we will let you shoot machineguns.<BR>&gt; &gt; Oooh... you tempt me, you really do :-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; This tempts me, too. B-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Shooting machineguns is really fun. What kind of targets do you use?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; (Sadly I never got to fire AA MG in the military. LMG was really fun.<BR>&gt; LAW too, although I never hit anything...)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Of course, I could ask if I could get into rehearsals... But it would mean<BR>&gt; living in the woods for days -&gt; not very likely worth it.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Now to figure out a way to raise the airfare &amp; find somewhere to stay<BR>&gt; &gt; and...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; It will be hard to reason this with my SO. B-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt; +++++++++[&gt;+++++++++&lt;-]&gt;-.&lt;+++++[&gt;+++&lt;-]++&gt;++.&lt;++[&gt;++++&lt;-]+&gt;+.&lt;++[&gt;----<BR>&gt; &lt;-]&gt;-.&gt;+++[&gt;++++++++++&lt;-]++&gt;++pare@iki.fi&lt;+[&gt;++++&lt;-]&gt;+.-&gt;+[&gt;++++[&lt;&lt;---&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;.&gt;&gt;+++++++[&lt;++++++++++&gt;-]++++[&lt;+++++&gt;-]&lt;-.&gt;[-]&gt;+++[&gt;++[&lt;&lt;&lt;----&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &lt;&gt;&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;&lt;.+.&gt;[-]++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;.++.[-]&gt;[-]++++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;++.&gt;&gt;++[&gt;++[&gt;-&lt;-]&lt;--]<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 08:04:12 +1300<BR>From: "Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising<BR><BR>On 21 Dec 2000, at 8:52, Mark Urbin wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson) types:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;...<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;Clinton got caught with his pants down, literally. His _biggest_ crime<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;was being elected as a Democrat when the Republicans thought that they<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;owned 1600 Pennsylvania. They never forgave him that, even though the<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;American public largely did. (At least enough to send him there for two<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;terms.) Hell as it is the R's just _barely_ won it this time.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Some of our analysts put it less delicately than that, but<BR>&gt; &gt;a partly paralyzed Bush admin isn't the worst option to us...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I'm still amazed that people say "do nothing congress" like it's a bad thing...<BR><BR>Considering the indecent speed with which various governments here have managed <BR>to pass unpopular legislation I'm tending to think it's a Good Thing.<BR><BR>- --<BR>"Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR><BR>A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 08:10:25 +1300<BR>From: "Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>On 21 Dec 2000, at 19:57, Mikko V. I. Parviainen wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; On Thu, 21 Dec 2000, Megan Robertson wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; In-Reply-To: &lt;200012200444.WAA07878@pompano.pcola.gulf.net&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Greetings dear hearts.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;Come to Oregon, and we will let you shoot machineguns.<BR>&gt; &gt; Oooh... you tempt me, you really do :-)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; This tempts me, too. B-)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Shooting machineguns is really fun. What kind of targets do you use?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; (Sadly I never got to fire AA MG in the military. LMG was really fun.<BR>&gt; LAW too, although I never hit anything...)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Of course, I could ask if I could get into rehearsals... But it would mean<BR>&gt; living in the woods for days -&gt; not very likely worth it.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Now to figure out a way to raise the airfare &amp; find somewhere to stay <BR>&gt; &gt; and...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; It will be hard to reason this with my SO. B-)<BR><BR>Bring her, too. If she's like some of my ex-girlfriends the discovery that she <BR>too can make lots of noise and blow things up will have her delighted. :)<BR><BR>- --<BR>"Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR><BR>A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3446<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Thursday, December 21 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3447<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>RE: Traveller related (really!!)<BR>H&amp;E Question<BR>RE: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: Low standards<BR>RE: Traveller related (really!!)<BR>Re: (7) Summary - KB3 Traveller System (Playtest)<BR>RE: DUNE Messiah! &amp; Other Books<BR>ACQ was RE: BITS adventures...<BR>RE: Low standards<BR>RE: Traveller related (really!!)<BR>Film Cast<BR>Re: Low standards<BR>Re: Warrant Officers<BR>Re: H&amp;E Question<BR>Re: Low standards<BR>Re: H&amp;E Question<BR>Re: ACQ was RE: BITS adventures...<BR>Re: ACQ was RE: BITS adventures...<BR>Re: H&amp;E Question<BR>Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR>Re: Low standards<BR>Re: Michelle Yeoh (NOT Low standards)<BR>Re: Low standards<BR>Re: Low standards<BR>A Religious Moment....<BR>RE: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 19:14 +0000 (GMT)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: RE: Traveller related (really!!)<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;790253638A0FD411BC8100D0B73E4E6791D54C@VIR&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>I usually called WO2s 'Sir' - at least, to their face :-)<BR><BR>Never had a collective noun for them, although individual names a-plenty.<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Sergeant Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 13:14:36 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: H&amp;E Question<BR><BR>I just downloaded Heaven and Earth.&nbsp; You gotta have Internet Explorer to<BR>run the doggone thing?&nbsp; It won't work with Netscape Communicator?<BR><BR>I don't think I have room on my hard drive nor the patience to wait the<BR>hours it will take to download IE.<BR><BR>Hmmm.....<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 08:17:38 +1300<BR>From: "Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>On 21 Dec 2000, at 10:59, Jesse Degraff wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Target-wise we periodically call the range cold and set out water jugs,<BR>&gt; bowling pins, and strings of balloons at 50yds and 100yds (that's ~48m &amp;<BR>&gt; 91.5m for you metric types ;).&nbsp; There are also 55gallon (208ltr) drum lids<BR>&gt; at 100yds and, IIRC, 150yds, and plywood silhouettes of a tank and a (no<BR>&gt; lie!) triceratops at 150yds as well.&nbsp; So, it's a very target-rich<BR>&gt; environment, though the jugs and balloons go pretty quick each time the<BR>&gt; range goes hot again :)&nbsp; There were also a couple of apples that were thrown out<BR>&gt; to the 50yd line that became instant competitions to see who could hit it first.<BR><BR>I always liked 1.5L or 2L coke bottles filled with water. If you push them into <BR>the ground a few inches upside down and hit them a bit low the 'top' end of the <BR>bottle will often 'lift off' like a rocket. Sometimes they'll fly up 30-40 <BR>feet.<BR><BR>&gt; One of the fun things about this range and shoot, coming from ranges here in<BR>&gt; Kalifornia that require 2 seconds btwn. each shot, is practicing rapid fire<BR>&gt; techniques :)<BR><BR>You have to wait 2 sec. between each shot in California? Wierd.<BR><BR>- --<BR>"Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR><BR>A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 14:23:09 -0500<BR>From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>Where would Michelle Yeoh fit in the Traveller HK Action Opera? =)<BR><BR>(And yes, while most people would recognize her only from that Bond film, I <BR>have fond remembrances of her in both Heroic Trio films and... ooooh, what <BR>was that one, she played a woman in a smal town but dressed as a boy..... <BR>Wing Fong?&nbsp; I'd better not try to guess the name, I'll mangle it horribly.)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 11:25:44 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Traveller related (really!!)<BR><BR>Most Warrant Officers (and Junior Officers in general) in the USN are<BR>addressed as "Mr." (or Ms., now).<BR><BR>In the third person, we simply refer to them as "the warrant."<BR><BR>=====<BR>Gerry Harris<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.<BR>http://shopping.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 18:53:06 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: (7) Summary - KB3 Traveller System (Playtest)<BR><BR>At 00:45 -0500 21/12/00, david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:<BR>&gt;I'd like to money to buy ACQ, but it's not available in Oz, and anyway with<BR>&gt;our exchange rate and all costs effectively twice as much as the list price<BR>&gt;PLUS double the postage!&nbsp; :-(<BR><BR><BR>Leisure Games (www.leisuregames.co.uk) will mail order. IIRC the <BR>overseas charge is 50% P&amp;P. It may be 40%...<BR><BR>That means the book would still cost you less than 10 quid (7.50!!!!!)<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 18:57:50 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: DUNE Messiah! &amp; Other Books<BR><BR>At 05:33 -0500 21/12/00,&nbsp; "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;But one of my favourite fantasy series is Guy Gavriel Kay's three volume<BR>&gt;"Fionavar Tapestry". I also like Greg Bear's "Infinity Concerto".<BR><BR>GGK's 'A Song for Arbonne' and 'The Lions of Al-Rassan' are far <BR>better books, IMO. But I liked 'Fionavar'.<BR><BR>The former are single volume fantasy books (not trilogies, hurrah!) <BR>and set in a world more like a version of ours. Actually, now I think <BR>of it I may have to re-read them to borrow ideas for my '7th Sea' RPG <BR>game.<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 19:17:37 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: ACQ was RE: BITS adventures...<BR><BR>At 12:49 -0500 21/12/00,&nbsp; "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; As someone just pointed out to me on another list, you basically get<BR>&gt; &gt; a ready made game if you pair ACQ with the new Beowulf deckplans from<BR>&gt; &gt; Steve Jackson Games as apparently they have some Cardboard Heros in<BR>&gt; &gt; too.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Yup. All shipped a couple of days ago. You want a summary of how it plays<BR>&gt;when mine turns up?<BR><BR>Please.<BR><BR>BTW Kenneth if Doug doesn't respond soon on ACQ I will.<BR><BR>If the suspense is killing you look at either <BR>http://www.warehouse23.com/ or http://www.bits.org.uk/ and have a <BR>look at the entries for 'At Close Quarters' under the products.<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 11:33:23 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Low standards<BR><BR>On Thu, 21 Dec 2000, Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; At 9:03 AM -0800 12/21/00, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;I dunno who Jackie should be, but I want Takeshi Kaneshiro and Hideaki<BR>&gt; &gt;Takizawa to get parts doing something, even if it's just standing around<BR>&gt; &gt;looking sexy.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Aha! Well, clearly then we're looking at Dilgaadin and... hm. <BR>&gt; Another "personal assistant" wink-wink?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I know Takeshi Kaneshiro (Jin Chengwu to the anti-Japanese ;) ) but <BR>&gt; who's the other one?<BR>&gt;<BR>Hideaki Takizawa was a member of SMAP (lousy music, but it's fun to watch<BR>the videos with the sound turned off heheheheh) and is actually a pretty<BR>decent actor.&nbsp; He played the sexy high school boy that the teacher ran off<BR>with in "Majou no Jouken" which was a big hit on Japanese TV last year.<BR>You wouldn't know him from HK movies because so far as I know he's only in<BR>Japanese stuff, unlike Kaneshiro, who got his start in HK stuff (being<BR>Taiwanese, and mixed Japanese/Chinese) and has only lately started acting<BR>in Japanese films.<BR><BR>Anyhow, if they ever do a Traveller movie set in an earlier era, please<BR>cast him as personal assistant to Empress Kiri Estigarribia.<BR><BR>/me bows (arigatou).<BR><BR>&gt; Oh, wait... we also need to figure out who plays Seldrian.&nbsp; Could be tricky.<BR>&gt; <BR>I gotta think about that.<BR><BR>hmm...<BR><BR>kiri-chan yori<BR><BR>******************************************************************************<BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 93!&nbsp; Thou Art God<BR>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR><BR>"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>Desire is embraced in a dream..."&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- X-JAPAN<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 08:38:03 +1300<BR>From: "Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Traveller related (really!!)<BR><BR>On 21 Dec 2000, at 11:25, Gerry Harris wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Most Warrant Officers (and Junior Officers in general) in the USN are<BR>&gt; addressed as "Mr." (or Ms., now).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In the third person, we simply refer to them as "the warrant."<BR><BR>In the NZ Army the top Warrent Officers (WO1s? I can never remember which is <BR>higher) and 'Subalterns' (Lieutenants and Captains) are correctly referred to <BR>as Mr. (presumably Ms. if female) in the thrid person, but this is rare for <BR>Captains and becoming rare for Lieutenants, too. It's more common to refer to <BR>them by ranks, just as you do for higher ranks.<BR><BR>- --<BR>"Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR><BR>A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 14:35:50 -0500<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Film Cast<BR><BR>Kenji types:<BR>&gt;I was going to suggest Quentin Tarrantino get a walk-on as Lt.<BR>&gt;Windhook, but the suggestion of Steven Segal is certainly better.<BR>&gt;Also, I'd like to see Chuck Norris cast as the Aslan ambassador who<BR>&gt;buys it.&nbsp; Either that or Archduke Brrk.<BR><BR>Hmmm....yes.&nbsp; Very little makeup work needed to fill out the body fur with <BR>Norris.<BR><BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>Born to be Wild. Sentenced to Sedation<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 13:39:52 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>On 12/21/00 at 10:10 AM,&nbsp; shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:<BR><BR>&gt;In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; No Walter Koenig has to do that, he plays head of PsiCorp so well in Bab5.<BR><BR>&gt;Who would have guessed that Chekov could do "bastard" so well?<BR><BR>&gt;BTW, watching the Babylon5 re-runs on the SciFi channel, I'm very<BR>&gt;impressed by the way he can say innocent things, in an innocent<BR>&gt;way, yet somehow manage to make them anything *but* innocent, just<BR>&gt;because *he* is saying them. <BR><BR>Yeah, it was an absolute revelation to me.&nbsp; Koenig he reminds me a lot of Werner Klemper, when he wasn't playing Col. Klink. Klemper could play a *nasty* wolf in sheeps clothing really, really well, too.<BR><BR>&gt;He'd make a *great* Tvarchedl(sp) officer.<BR><BR>How about an IRIS operative? &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 14:39:59 -0500<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Warrant Officers<BR><BR>&gt;In mail you write:<BR>&gt; &gt; Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt; types:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;As my dear, departed father - a CWO4 in the USN - often pointed out,<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;warrants started as the bastard sons of the nobility; they weren't<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;nobles, so they couldn't be commissioned, but they weren't commoners,<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;either.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;And, according to my father, warrant officers were still the biggest<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;bastards around.<BR>&gt; &gt; My dad was a CWO2 in the Army of the United States.<BR>&gt; &gt; Considering that he is a card carrying member of the IOBA, I'd say that he<BR>&gt; &gt; agrees with your dad. :-)<BR>&gt;IOBA?<BR><BR>That's what I get for posting before Coffee...<BR><BR>International Order of Old Bastards (IOOB)<BR><BR><BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>It was blasphemous, it was sacrilegious, and it was a little bit too much fun.<BR>http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 13:45:15 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: H&amp;E Question<BR><BR>On 12/21/00 at 01:14 PM,&nbsp; Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;I just downloaded Heaven and Earth.&nbsp; You gotta have Internet<BR>&gt;Explorer to run the doggone thing?&nbsp; It won't work with Netscape<BR>&gt;Communicator?<BR><BR>&gt;I don't think I have room on my hard drive nor the patience to wait<BR>&gt;the hours it will take to download IE.<BR><BR>I think you have to have some of the dlls from IE, bloody MS!&nbsp; You might also need some other dll from somewhere, I'm not sure, others can tell you better than me.<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 13:50:44 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>On 12/21/00 at 02:23 PM,&nbsp; Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;Where would Michelle Yeoh fit in the Traveller HK Action Opera? =)<BR><BR>Anywhere she wants to!<BR><BR>&gt;(And yes, while most people would recognize her only from that Bond<BR>&gt;film, I&nbsp; have fond remembrances of her in both Heroic Trio films<BR>&gt;and... ooooh, what&nbsp; was that one, she played a woman in a smal town<BR>&gt;but dressed as a boy.....&nbsp; Wing Fong?&nbsp; I'd better not try to guess<BR>&gt;the name, I'll mangle it horribly.)<BR><BR>Isn't she the woman that has that running up walls, over roof-tops, etc. fight with an assassian in a recent movie? The clip I saw made the movie look like an absolute hoot! Too bad, I have no idea what the name of it is. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 13:52:48 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: H&amp;E Question<BR><BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;I just downloaded Heaven and Earth.&nbsp; You gotta have Internet<BR>&gt; &gt;Explorer to run the doggone thing?&nbsp; It won't work with Netscape<BR>&gt; &gt;Communicator?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;I don't think I have room on my hard drive nor the patience to wait<BR>&gt; &gt;the hours it will take to download IE.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I think you have to have some of the dlls from IE, bloody MS!&nbsp; You might also need some other dll from somewhere, I'm not sure, others can tell you better than me.<BR><BR>I read the H&amp;E Read Me doc.&nbsp; It says you need Internet Explorer OR the file SHDOCVW.DLL<BR><BR>I don't have IE, but I did a file search for that file, and I've got it (it's in the Windows directory--maybe its a left over from when I had IE on my system--or maybe<BR>I've got the file and have another problem with H&amp;E)<BR><BR>I couldn't get it to run.&nbsp; I'm thinking about re-downloading and seeing if that will help.<BR><BR>If any of you computer-dudes out there have a suggestion for me, I wouldn't mind hearing it right about now...<BR><BR>Thanks,<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 13:55:56 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: ACQ was RE: BITS adventures...<BR><BR>On 12/21/00 at 07:17 PM,&nbsp; Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt; said:<BR>&gt;BTW Kenneth if Doug doesn't respond soon on ACQ I will.<BR><BR>&gt;If the suspense is killing you look at either <BR>&gt;http://www.warehouse23.com/ or http://www.bits.org.uk/ and have a <BR>&gt;look at the entries for 'At Close Quarters' under the products.<BR><BR>Geeze, just say Snapshot on steroids! Ken will get it. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Hum, he'll probably get it in both senses of the expression. &lt;bg&gt;<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 14:04:46 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: ACQ was RE: BITS adventures...<BR><BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;If the suspense is killing you look at either<BR>&gt; &gt;http://www.warehouse23.com/ or http://www.bits.org.uk/ and have a<BR>&gt; &gt;look at the entries for 'At Close Quarters' under the products.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Geeze, just say Snapshot on steroids! Ken will get it. &lt;g&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Hum, he'll probably get it in both senses of the expression. &lt;bg&gt;<BR><BR>Doug dosen't like me.&nbsp; It's probably why he didn't answer.&nbsp; I think I pissed<BR>off one of his friends a while back.<BR><BR>But, just checked out ACQ....DAMN COOL!<BR><BR>I just might have to start getting me some of this BITS stuff...<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 14:10:33 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: H&amp;E Question<BR><BR>On 12/21/00 at 01:52 PM,&nbsp; Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;I read the H&amp;E Read Me doc.&nbsp; It says you need Internet Explorer OR<BR>&gt;the file SHDOCVW.DLL<BR><BR>&gt;I don't have IE, but I did a file search for that file, and I've<BR>&gt;got it (it's in the Windows directory--maybe its a left over from<BR>&gt;when I had IE on my system--or maybe I've got the file and have<BR>&gt;another problem with H&amp;E)<BR><BR>&gt;I couldn't get it to run.&nbsp; I'm thinking about re-downloading and<BR>&gt;seeing if that will help.<BR><BR>If you do, make sure you uninstall the old one before trying to install the new one. <BR><BR>&gt;If any of you computer-dudes out there have a suggestion for me, I<BR>&gt;wouldn't mind hearing it right about now...<BR><BR>Ken, I always had trouble getting H&amp;E's betas to run on my system too. I never knew why, sometimes it would install right, sometimes it wouldn't. Like I said I haven't had time to keep up with it since last summer, so it might be "all fixed" by now, but I'm not the one to ask about it. I'm going to grab the latest, I guess the last now, version tonight and install it..try to anyway. I'm really hoping Stuart finished the World Editor.<BR><BR>I remember Dean Jones and David Smart as being involved in the testing. They are on the TML, I think, so maybe they'll help you out. Heck, Stuart Ferriss might be, too.<BR><BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 15:21:49 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR><BR>Anthony Jackson writes:<BR>&gt;Ian Ferguson writes:<BR>&gt;&gt;Which version of Traveller are you using?<BR>&gt;None, I'm mathematically analysing what a flickering black globe would actually<BR>&gt;do.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Oops, sorry.&nbsp; Let's start again.<BR><BR>&lt;previously&gt;<BR>&gt;I did some computation with black globes, and discovered that a black globe<BR>&gt;in flicker mode seems to be just a disadvantage most of the time.<BR>&gt;Consider a 50% flicker rate black globe.<BR>&gt;It absorbs 50% of attacks.&nbsp; This is good.&nbsp; However, it also reduces <BR>&gt;acceleration by 50%, which reduces your evasive ability by 75%, with the<BR>&gt;result that unless you're at ranges too close to dodge, you get hit by twice<BR>&gt;as many shots after the black globe it applied.&nbsp; This seems bad...<BR>&gt;Thoughts?&nbsp; Is my math faulty?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; If by "50% of attacks" you mean that half of attacks that would have<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; hit the target are instead completely absorbed (while half are<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; completely unhindered), and if random accelerations are the only<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; issue in preventing hits, then I cannot find fault with this.&nbsp; If<BR>the black<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; globe actually absorbs 50% of each attack, then the situation is, of<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; course, different.<BR><BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:33:15 -0800<BR>From: Ken Hagler &lt;khagler@orange-road.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>on 12/21/00 11:23 AM, Jonathan McDermott wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; ooooh, what <BR>&gt; was that one, she played a woman in a smal town but dressed as a boy.....<BR>&gt; Wing Fong? <BR><BR>It was "Wing Chun." That's one of those pseudo-historical dramas--it's based<BR>on a real person, but all the details were made up.<BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Ken Hagler<BR><BR>|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ICQ#: 34591293&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; For PGP key send mail with&nbsp; |<BR>|&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.orange-road.com/&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; subject "Send PGP Key".&nbsp; &nbsp; |<BR>|&nbsp;&nbsp; It's like an irony of fate; Things never turn out as I wish&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR>|&nbsp;&nbsp; It's just like an irony of fate; It kills me --Mari Iijima&nbsp; &nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 15:34:20 -0500<BR>From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>Subject: Re: Michelle Yeoh (NOT Low standards)<BR><BR>Eris Reddoch wrote:<BR>&gt; Isn't she the woman that has that running up walls, over roof-tops, &gt;etc. fight with an assassian in a recent movie? The clip I saw made &gt;the movie look like an absolute hoot! Too bad, I have no idea what &gt;the name of it is. <BR><BR>'Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.'&nbsp; Saw it a week or so back.&nbsp; Sort of a combination of 'The Matrix' (similar-style action; same stunt choreographer) and 'Shakespeare in Love' (a little more tenuous connection -- 'pop artiness,' period piece with contemporary sensibilities).&nbsp; Since those were both hugely popular, it's no surprise that the (sold out) audience all loved it (spontaneous applause after a couple of the fights).&nbsp; I wasn't as impressed, but don't let that discourage you -- I'm a big snob.<BR><BR>Trent<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:37:00 -0800<BR>From: Ken Hagler &lt;khagler@orange-road.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>on 12/21/00 11:50 AM, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Isn't she the woman that has that running up walls, over roof-tops, etc. fight<BR>&gt; with an assassian in a recent movie? The clip I saw made the movie look like<BR>&gt; an absolute hoot! Too bad, I have no idea what the name of it is. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>The movie is "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon," which also has Chow Yun-Fat.<BR>It's a really outstanding movie. The commercials emphasize the fight scenes,<BR>but it's has as much drama as fighting.<BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Ken Hagler<BR><BR>|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ICQ#: 34591293&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; For PGP key send mail with&nbsp; |<BR>|&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.orange-road.com/&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; subject "Send PGP Key".&nbsp; &nbsp; |<BR>|&nbsp;&nbsp; It's like an irony of fate; Things never turn out as I wish&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR>|&nbsp;&nbsp; It's just like an irony of fate; It kills me --Mari Iijima&nbsp; &nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 15:43:33 -0500<BR>From: "James Fleming" &lt;blackjack@pil.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>I believe it was called Wing Chun.<BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 2:23 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR><BR>: Where would Michelle Yeoh fit in the Traveller HK Action Opera? =)<BR>:<BR>: (And yes, while most people would recognize her only from that Bond film,<BR>I<BR>: have fond remembrances of her in both Heroic Trio films and... ooooh, what<BR>: was that one, she played a woman in a smal town but dressed as a boy.....<BR>: Wing Fong?&nbsp; I'd better not try to guess the name, I'll mangle it<BR>horribly.)<BR>:<BR>:<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 20:47:12 -0000<BR>From: "MJ Dougherty" &lt;martinjd@globalnet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: A Religious Moment....<BR><BR>At this special time of year, I thought I'd share a profound thought about<BR>religion in Traveller.<BR><BR>... but not having any, I settled for a brief prayer of the sort muttered<BR>aboard starships from the Core to the Extents....<BR><BR>Apologies in advance if anyone's offended.<BR><BR><BR>The Traveller's Prayer<BR><BR>As misremembered and horribly misquoted from the Church of Stellar<BR>Divinity's "File of Reverent and Relevant Prayer"....<BR><BR><BR>Gods in Space... I beseech thee....<BR>Hear me in this time of second thoughts.<BR><BR>Blessed be this enterprise.<BR>Unwise though it is.<BR>Yea, and foolhardy even to the very point of idiocy.<BR>For we needeth hard cash.<BR>Yea, and pronto.<BR><BR>Blessed be the Skipper.<BR>For he Knows What He Is Doing.<BR>We hope.<BR><BR>Blessed be the Engineer and the Astrogator.<BR>For the Jump Drive is making a noise.<BR>Which scares the very pants off me.<BR><BR>Blessed be the Gunner.<BR>For he is often drunk, and cannot hit a gas giant.<BR>Yea, and the gunnery software has a glitch.<BR><BR>Blessed be the Pilot.<BR>For we really do not need another collision.<BR>And blessed be the Medic and the Steward.<BR>For all Sophonts are made equal in thine eyes.<BR>So it'd be unfair to leave anyone out.<BR><BR>And blessed be the Cargobots.<BR>Just in case.<BR><BR>Blessed be our ATV.<BR>For the damn thing (sorry) is falling to bits.<BR>It'll take a miracle to keep it going.<BR><BR>Blessed also be the local fauna.<BR>May it leave us the hell alone (sorry again) while we are on-planet.<BR><BR>Oh, and blessed be the local weather systems.<BR>For our survival tent doth leak.<BR>Mightily.<BR><BR>Blessed be the local customs enforcement personnel.<BR>Or better yet, may they be mildly afflicted by chafing undergarments.<BR>And itching toes.<BR>That they may be distracted, and not take much notice of us.<BR><BR>Blessed be our ship's papers.<BR>For they are somewhat dodgy.<BR>And shall stand no righteous examination by competent persons.<BR><BR>Finally, oh gods, bless me in this time of need.<BR>For it is by thy will that I am embarked upon this ill-thought-out<BR>enterprise.<BR>There can surely be no other reason why I agreed to this lunatic scheme.<BR>So it's only fair that you help me out.<BR><BR>And yea, though we walk in the valley of the shadow of death,<BR>Yet shall we fear no ill.<BR>(Blessed by my sidearm, by the way)<BR>For we are righteous, and thine armour of light shall protect us.<BR>And failing that, we have ACRs and a grenade launcher.<BR>And they do say that the Gods help those who help themselves.<BR>Which is what we're doing.<BR><BR>In a manner of speaking.<BR><BR>Oh gods in space, hear now this prayer.<BR>For I need all the help I can get on this one.....<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Seasonal thoughts, everyone.<BR>Regards<BR>MJD<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:47:40 -0800<BR>From: "Jesse Degraff" &lt;jedegraf@cisco.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>At all the available ranges in the San Jose area anyway.&nbsp; It's not a state<BR>law or anything.&nbsp; In the case of one range, it's an equipment issue.&nbsp; It's<BR>an indoor range with a cable-driven target return system.&nbsp; If you're an<BR>inexperienced shooter (most of 'em are at that particular range too) trying<BR>rapid-fire, there's a strong chance of you severing the cable when you pull<BR>the trigger the 2nd (or whatever) time.<BR><BR>&lt;ego mode on&gt;<BR>Me on the other hand, I only use the center of the target regardless of slow<BR>or rapid-fire, but they still won't let me rapid-fire :D<BR>&lt;ego mode off&gt;<BR><BR>Best,<BR>Jesse<BR><BR><BR>&gt; You have to wait 2 sec. between each shot in California? Wierd.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt; "Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3447<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3448</B></TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Thursday, December 21 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3448<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Reft sector X-boat link<BR>Re: Low standards<BR>Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR>Re: H &amp; LOTR (Was Re: Shannara (was Re: DUNE Messiah!))<BR>RE: Low standards<BR>Re: Low standards<BR>Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR>Re: Low Standards<BR>OT: Kung Fu movies&nbsp; WAS Re: Low standards<BR>Re: Task persistence<BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR>Re: OT: Kung Fu movies&nbsp; WAS Re: Low standards<BR>Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR>Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR>Re: H &amp; LOTR (Was Re: Shannara (was Re: DUNE Messiah!))<BR>Re: OT: Kung Fu movies&nbsp; WAS Re: Low standards<BR>My first filk<BR>Re: A Religious Moment....<BR>An incompetent expert (who's made of straw)<BR>Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 07:56:09 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Reft sector X-boat link<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; And, if you do the math, they'll only hit the target thru sheer *luck*.<BR><BR>I did the math.&nbsp; The distance you want varies with speed of course,<BR>and speed varies with the rules for thrusters in YTU, but you can<BR>correct for jump error before you hit without much difficulty.<BR><BR>The slower you go, the more chance you have of being intercepted, of<BR>course.&nbsp; Given the rules for space combat, they probably won't be able<BR>to do much even at only 50 000 km/s.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Trajectory, not vector. Gravity *will* affect your course.<BR><BR>Sorry, I keep slipping into GR-think, where gravity doesn't affect<BR>vectors.&nbsp; Trajectory is probably more accurate anyway since they'll<BR>want you to do some sideways corrections no doubt.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; And they'll want to keep you away from other ships, and from various<BR>&gt; orbital installations.<BR><BR>Yes.&nbsp; Again, true no matter what speed you exit jump with.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 14:54:54 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>On 12/21/00 at 12:37 PM,&nbsp; Ken Hagler &lt;khagler@orange-road.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;on 12/21/00 11:50 AM, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Isn't she the woman that has that running up walls, over roof-tops, etc. fight<BR>&gt;&gt; with an assassian in a recent movie? The clip I saw made the movie look like<BR>&gt;&gt; an absolute hoot! Too bad, I have no idea what the name of it is. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;The movie is "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon," which also has Chow<BR>&gt;Yun-Fat. It's a really outstanding movie. The commercials emphasize<BR>&gt;the fight scenes, but it's has as much drama as fighting.<BR><BR>I might have to go see it, if it makes it to the hinterlands. I always liked the low budget HK action historicals that showed on late night TV here.&nbsp; You know the ones where the terrible dubs and fantastic fight scenes. I always associated these folks with acrobatics and circus performances more than real martial arts, but it sure was fun. I have no idea who those men and women were/are, but they got my 1 am in the living room on Saturday night applause.&nbsp; For some reason, I haven't seen those movies on late night TV in about 10 years, I wonder what happened?<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 07:59:56 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR><BR>Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; The flicker should normally not drop below 90%, it's designed to<BR>&gt; allow the BG ship to have _some_ idea of where they are, and to fire<BR>&gt; a big gun once in a while, not to actively maneurver and fight in.<BR><BR>By my calculations, if uncertainty in position is the main thing<BR>preventing you from being hit (which seems to be the case in the<BR>Traveller combat systems), then flickering at 90% means you'll be hit<BR>100 times more often for most beams.<BR><BR>i.e. instead of 1000 shots fired in a combat turn and 2 hitting,<BR>you'll have 200 hitting, of which 20 get through your black globe.<BR>(And 180 overloading the generators)<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 08:02:01 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: H &amp; LOTR (Was Re: Shannara (was Re: DUNE Messiah!))<BR><BR>Mikko V. I. Parviainen wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Hm, I was very much a child when I read it the first time. Perhaps that<BR>&gt; could be connected to the fact that I had read most children and<BR>&gt; adolescent book in our house and the local library very early. B-)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Recently I have been enjoying Harry Potters. Maybe I am regressing...<BR><BR>Or your mind is moving backward in time.&nbsp; Watch out -- you are be<BR>about to be unborn!&nbsp; :^)<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 16:02:54 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Low standards<BR><BR>At 1:21 PM -0500 12/21/00, Paul Drye wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Don't forget the blooper, shown during the credits, where the Alien <BR>&gt;accidentally decapitates Jackie yet he manages to resume filming a <BR>&gt;scant forty-five minutes later -- fake plaster head in place....<BR><BR>LOL :)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 16:05:22 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>At 2:23 PM -0500 12/21/00, Jonathan McDermott wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Where would Michelle Yeoh fit in the Traveller HK Action Opera? =)<BR><BR>I think we have our Seldrian :)&nbsp; Which could be a great role, with <BR>plenty of character drama and action combined.<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 13:07:07 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR><BR>Timothy Little writes:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; By my calculations, if uncertainty in position is the main thing<BR>&gt; preventing you from being hit (which seems to be the case in the<BR>&gt; Traveller combat systems)<BR><BR>For any given combat system, that's unclear; however, assuming grav focus <BR>weaponry with multi-ls ranges, that certainly _should_ be the case in <BR>traveller.<BR><BR>A BG is probably useful at short ranges (&lt;1 ls) and for stealth; it might be<BR>more useful if the flicker rate is such that it disrupts individual shots <BR>rather than stopping a faction of them, since that could make the diferrence<BR>between penetration and no penetration.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 16:08:06 -0500<BR>From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Low Standards<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:33:15 -0800<BR>&gt;From: Ken Hagler &lt;khagler@orange-road.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Low standards<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;on 12/21/00 11:23 AM, Jonathan McDermott wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; ooooh, what<BR>&gt; &gt; was that one, she played a woman in a smal town but dressed as a boy.....<BR>&gt; &gt; Wing Fong?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;It was "Wing Chun." That's one of those pseudo-historical dramas--it's based<BR>&gt;on a real person, but all the details were made up.<BR>&gt;------------------------------<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt;Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 15:43:33 -0500<BR>&gt;From: "James Fleming" &lt;blackjack@pil.net&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Low standards<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I believe it was called Wing Chun.<BR>&gt;------------------------------<BR><BR>My thanks to both of you!&nbsp; I couldn't remember that title. =)<BR><BR>I'll have to find that 'Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon' movie.&nbsp; (Along with <BR>those two classic Comminuist SF movies people have been mentioning!)<BR><BR>Cheers<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 16:13:29 -0500<BR>From: "James Fleming" &lt;blackjack@pil.net&gt;<BR>Subject: OT: Kung Fu movies&nbsp; WAS Re: Low standards<BR><BR>Eris Writes:<BR>:<BR>: I might have to go see it, if it makes it to the hinterlands. I always<BR>liked the low budget HK action historicals that showed on late night TV<BR>here.&nbsp; You know the ones where the terrible dubs and fantastic fight scenes.<BR>I always associated these folks with acrobatics and circus performances more<BR>than real martial arts, but it sure was fun. I have no idea who those men<BR>and women were/are, but they got my 1 am in the living room on Saturday<BR>night applause.&nbsp; For some reason, I haven't seen those movies on late night<BR>TV in about 10 years, I wonder what happened?<BR>:<BR><BR>As far as Michelle Yeoh is concerned, she never really had any formal<BR>martial arts training.&nbsp; She was originally a dancer/model who appeared in a<BR>few commercials and had bit parts in films.&nbsp; Eventually she was chosen by<BR>either Sammo Hung or Jackie Chan to appear in some movies (pretty much the<BR>tought kung fu female cop kind) and then went on from there.<BR><BR>Jackie Chan and Sammo Hung were both raised in a Chinese Opera troupe called<BR>the "Seven Little Fortunes" along with another actor named Yuen Biao who's<BR>pretty good in his own right.&nbsp; Jackie was originally started appearing in<BR>movies as a Bruce Lee knock off but eventually started to take control of<BR>the films he starred in.&nbsp; Most of his ealry stuff is god awful.&nbsp; I really<BR>can't complain about Sammo (he was in that show Martial Law for awhile)<BR>Something about a real fat guy able to do flips and insane stunts is<BR>definitely worthy of my respect.<BR><BR>Jet Li who has yet to be cast in the Traveller movie actually did have<BR>martial arts training.&nbsp; He was a world Wu Shu (chinese for kung fu) champion<BR>at a very young age and actually performed at the White House for Nixon when<BR>he was 10.&nbsp; If you ever get a chance and you like these kind of movies, I<BR>highly recommend almost anything he appears in.&nbsp; His best films, IMHO, if<BR>anyone's interested are the Once Upon A Time In China series (1 &amp; 2 being<BR>the best)<BR><BR>Well, I've babbled enough about HK action movies.&nbsp; Hope this was of interest<BR>to at least someone on list.<BR><BR>Jim Fleming<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 08:26:27 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Task persistence<BR><BR>Trent Smith wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; The downside, though, is that since these things are being decided<BR>&gt; by a die-roll, the player who rolls low and finds himself<BR>&gt; 'handicapped by circumstance' is still going to feel like he was<BR>&gt; done-in by a single unlucky roll.<BR><BR>I'd rather that than have my character be a known expert and fail<BR>often at tasks that even a complete novice might succeed in.&nbsp; That's<BR>the alternative.&nbsp; That's the one adopted by virtually every other game<BR>system out there.<BR><BR>No, I'd rather run a risk of being "done in" by one unlucky roll than<BR>being certainly nickle-and-dimed to death by many.&nbsp; At least I have a<BR>consistent explanation for the first.&nbsp; There is no explanation for the<BR>second but a capricious and causeless universe, which is no<BR>explanation at all.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; The question seems to be where you want to balance between<BR>&gt; 'realistic cause and effect' and 'fun larger-than-life<BR>&gt; unpredictability.'<BR><BR>Make that a scale between 'fun larger than life predictability',<BR>'realistic cause and effect' and 'random unpredictability' and I'll<BR>agree with you.&nbsp; I prefer somewhere to the left of realism, almost all<BR>RPGs are to the right.<BR><BR>"Fun larger-than-life" isn't unpredictable.&nbsp; In the movies Jackie Chan<BR>doesn't miss when doing backflips into moving vehicles or other<BR>stunts, no matter what the dice roll.&nbsp; In real life he does, very<BR>occasionally (which makes insurance companies nervous).&nbsp; In an RPG, he<BR>would fail a *lot* of the time.&nbsp; Things always happen in Larger than<BR>Life fiction for a reason, even if that reason is based on the effect<BR>on the audience.<BR><BR>'Larger than Life' *eliminates* random chance.<BR>'Real Life' has some chance, but still largely causal.<BR>'RPG Life' is dominated by chance.<BR><BR>So, I can't agree with your characterisation at all.<BR><BR>I'd have to characterize your preference as 'fun smaller-than-life<BR>unpredictability', where "experts" are incompetent and nothing is<BR>reliable.&nbsp; Nothing wrong with that, casinos make a lot of money from<BR>the fun factor involved in seeing what chance brings.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 08:30:22 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Which does, of course, cause the jump point to move with the<BR>&gt; &gt; velocity the ship had when it jumped. (Leonard knows this, I can tell.)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; But which *won't* have it move with the target!<BR><BR>It does if you plan it that way.&nbsp; In fact you can plan it so the<BR>earliest emergence is at the 100D limit, and all later emergences have<BR>the exit point inside that limit.&nbsp; Then it's guaranteed that you exit<BR>at the 100D limit, and have a velocity vector pre-aimed nearby (not<BR>directly pointed at the planet for traffic control reasons) so you<BR>only have to decelerate on arrival.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 13:29:50 -0800<BR>From: "Acting President Thing" &lt;thingunderthestairs@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR><BR>Thursday, December 21, 2000 1:07 PM<BR>Anthony Jackson SAID<BR><BR>&gt; A BG is probably useful at short ranges (&lt;1 ls) and for stealth; it<BR>might be<BR>&gt; more useful if the flicker rate is such that it disrupts individual<BR>shots<BR>&gt; rather than stopping a faction of them, since that could make the<BR>diferrence<BR>&gt; between penetration and no penetration.<BR><BR>Since a target using a flickering black globe would be blinking on and<BR>off on your sensors, it should be easy to calculate the blink rate and<BR>timing and adjust your fire pattern/rate to either always hit the globe<BR>or pass through (Assuming at a given flicker rate the blinking on and<BR>off is rhythmic and regular.).&nbsp; In this case, if you think you can<BR>deliver enough energy on target you probably want to be hitting the<BR>globe and guarantee destruction.<BR><BR>Does anybody know how to calculate how much energy a black globe would<BR>absorb from a proximity nuclear explosion.&nbsp; Since you would strike a<BR>broad area of the globes surface like a sail catching the wind I assume<BR>the energy delivered would far exceed a bomb pumped laser warhead.<BR><BR>G.D.D.<BR>Thing under the stairs,<BR>Minion of Shechemist &amp; GothBunny,<BR>Grand Master of the Electron Flow.<BR>===========================<BR>"The release of atom power has changed everything except our way of<BR>thinking...the solution to this problem lies in the heart of mankind. If<BR>only I had known, I should have become a watchmaker."&nbsp; -Albert Einstein<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 13:32:55 -0800<BR>From: Bill &lt;beast@aracnet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT: Kung Fu movies&nbsp; WAS Re: Low standards<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Jet Li who has yet to be cast in the Traveller movie actually did have<BR>&gt;martial arts training.&nbsp; He was a world Wu Shu (chinese for kung fu) champion<BR>&gt;at a very young age and actually performed at the White House for Nixon when<BR>&gt;he was 10.&nbsp; If you ever get a chance and you like these kind of movies, I<BR>&gt;highly recommend almost anything he appears in.&nbsp; His best films, IMHO, if<BR>&gt;anyone's interested are the Once Upon A Time In China series (1 &amp; 2 being<BR>&gt;the best)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Well, I've babbled enough about HK action movies.&nbsp; Hope this was of interest<BR>&gt;to at least someone on list.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Jim Fleming<BR><BR>If you would like a more contemporary view of Jet Li.<BR><BR>He is in the following movies.<BR><BR>Black Mask.<BR>Lethal Weapon 4<BR>Romeo Must Die<BR><BR>Jet Li would be an excellent addition to a Traveller movie.<BR><BR>Bill<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 13:33:20 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR><BR>Acting President Thing writes:<BR><BR>&gt; Since a target using a flickering black globe would be blinking on and<BR>&gt; off on your sensors, it should be easy to calculate the blink rate and<BR>&gt; timing and adjust your fire pattern/rate to either always hit the globe<BR>&gt; or pass through (Assuming at a given flicker rate the blinking on and<BR>&gt; off is rhythmic and regular.).<BR><BR>The implication, thus, is that flicker is not rhythmic and regular.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 08:38:06 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR><BR>Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; A BG is probably useful at short ranges (&lt;1 ls) and for stealth;<BR><BR>Yes, I agree.&nbsp; For steal, how long could you absorb sunlight before<BR>the generators blow up, though?&nbsp; I don't have the info on black globe<BR>stats nearby.&nbsp; At say, 1000 W/m^2.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; it might be more useful if the flicker rate is such that it disrupts<BR>&gt; individual shots rather than stopping a faction of them, since that<BR>&gt; could make the diferrence between penetration and no penetration.<BR><BR>That would be more useful, megahertz to gigahertz frequencies.&nbsp; What<BR>happens from the inside of the black globe, though, if it absorbs part<BR>of your own shots?&nbsp; I suppose you could always turn it off for a bit<BR>longer just while you fire, a few microseconds instead of nanoseconds.<BR><BR>Worse though, is what happens to drive exhaust (if any) when you have<BR>a black globe turned on?&nbsp; Reactionless thrusters are magic anyway, so<BR>ignore them.&nbsp; But for those who use fusion rockets or something,<BR>that's a *lot* of energy being absorbed.&nbsp; Probably enough to overload<BR>the projectors in a very short time indeed.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 16:36:41 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: "John P. Raynor" &lt;john.raynor@yale.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: H &amp; LOTR (Was Re: Shannara (was Re: DUNE Messiah!))<BR><BR>On Fri, 22 Dec 2000, Timothy Little wrote:<BR>&gt; Mikko V. I. Parviainen wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Hm, I was very much a child when I read it the first time. Perhaps that<BR>&gt; &gt; could be connected to the fact that I had read most children and<BR>&gt; &gt; adolescent book in our house and the local library very early. B-)<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Recently I have been enjoying Harry Potters. Maybe I am regressing...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Or your mind is moving backward in time.&nbsp; Watch out -- you are be<BR>&gt; about to be unborn!&nbsp; :^)<BR><BR>Or perhaps you're Merlin?&nbsp; (as portrayed "The Once and Future King")<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; - J. Raynor<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 16:43:27 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: OT: Kung Fu movies&nbsp; WAS Re: Low standards<BR><BR>On 12/21/00 at 04:13 PM,&nbsp; "James Fleming" &lt;blackjack@pil.net&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;Jackie Chan and Sammo Hung were both raised in a Chinese Opera<BR>&gt;troupe called the "Seven Little Fortunes" along with another actor<BR>&gt;named Yuen Biao who's pretty good in his own right.&nbsp; Jackie was<BR>&gt;originally started appearing in movies as a Bruce Lee knock off but<BR>&gt;eventually started to take control of the films he starred in. <BR>&gt;Most of his ealry stuff is god awful.&nbsp; I really can't complain<BR>&gt;about Sammo (he was in that show Martial Law for awhile) Something<BR>&gt;about a real fat guy able to do flips and insane stunts is<BR>&gt;definitely worthy of my respect.<BR><BR>So, who was it that did the "drunken man" style fighting in the old films? He was almost always was made up to look like an old man, but the makeup was so bad you could tell he was a young man made up to look old.<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 18:49:05 EST<BR>From: "Michael A. Hoxie" &lt;ludowick@juno.com&gt;<BR>Subject: My first filk<BR><BR>You know, if your on this list for any length of time, you see a bunch<BR>of posts that go something like this:<BR><BR>Subject: unsubscribe<BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>This makes me think there are three populations here on the TML:<BR>Posters, Lurkers, and those who are trapped here forever for having<BR>deleted the TML FAQ file.&nbsp; <BR><BR>This last group has inspired my first, feeble attempt at a filk.&nbsp; To the<BR>tune of The Eagles' "Hotel California" (hope it's not been done before),<BR>here's:<BR><BR>"Welcome to the Traveller Mailing List"&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;Ahem.&nbsp; Mi mi mi...&gt;<BR><BR>While I was surfing AOL,<BR>Nostalgia hit me hard.<BR>Started searching Alta Vista,<BR>To see how Traveller had fared.<BR><BR>Well, I found a few websites,<BR>Then I found a few more.<BR>Then I read about some "TML" -- <BR>Felt I had to explore.<BR><BR>Sent email to the list-bot,<BR>"Subscribe Traveller-Digest."<BR>And I was thinking to myself,<BR>"I hope this turns out for the best."<BR><BR>Well they sent me a FAQ file,<BR>And I threw it away.<BR>Who needs to be told what to do? <BR>Certainly not me, anyway.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;chorus&gt;<BR>Welcome to the Traveller Mailing List.<BR>Please save this file<BR>For future reference.<BR>Post what you like on the Traveller Mailing List.<BR>But, please, no flames<BR>'bout near-c rocks and Aslan babes.<BR><BR>Digests started filling my mailbox.<BR>Seven or more every day.<BR>And if I hadn't posted a few times myself,<BR>I might have still gotten away.<BR><BR>Someone started a flamewar;<BR>To myself I did scoff.<BR>Then I put my two credits in,<BR>That's when I knew I was lost.<BR><BR>So I sent in an email<BR>To traveller@lists.ient.com,<BR>"unsubscribe traveller-digest,"<BR>I thought my problem was gone.<BR><BR>But still those digests kept filling<BR>My poor mail box.<BR>I shuddered every time I would hear,<BR>"You've got mail!"<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;chorus&gt;<BR>Welcome to the Traveller Mailing List.<BR>Every single day,<BR>Sending posts your way.<BR>Plenty of folks on the Traveller Mailing List.<BR>"Did you say 'pirates,' guy?<BR>Now it's time for you to die!"<BR><BR>"Grav plates on the ceilings."<BR>"Jumpspace a crumpled cloth."<BR>"Virus = Killdozer!"<BR>"GT is Traveller -- NOT!"<BR><BR>And how all the List Elders<BR>Call themselves "Great Old Ones."<BR>At first I took it for a joke...<BR>I saw their tentacles, I started to run. <BR><BR>Last thing I remember,<BR>I was searching my hard drive.<BR>I had to get the FAQ and get out,<BR>I knew that once I had a life...<BR><BR>"Relax," said the list-bot,<BR>"We are programmed to survive.<BR>You can sign-off any time you want,<BR>But you can never unsubscribe."<BR><BR>&lt;Where's Joe Walsh when you need him?&gt;<BR><BR><BR>NB: the opinions expressed in this filk are not necessarily those of its<BR>author.&nbsp; All quotes are fictional.&nbsp; No animals were harmed in the making<BR>of this product.&nbsp; Regina is not the home planet of the brain-slugs, and<BR>visitors are encouraged to wander around for several hours while not <BR>wearing helmets.<BR><BR>Ludowick &lt;who, like the Big Lebowski, prefers CCR&gt;<BR><BR>________________________________________________________________<BR>GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!<BR>Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!<BR>Join Juno today!&nbsp; For your FREE software, visit:<BR>http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 18:55:25 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: A Religious Moment....<BR><BR>I am breaking the usual silence of this getting filed away in hundred <BR>hard drives in order to say, this is going off into my hard drive for <BR>enjoyment in years to come.&nbsp; Thanks!<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>At 8:47 PM +0000 12/21/00, MJ Dougherty wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;At this special time of year, I thought I'd share a profound thought about<BR>&gt;religion in Traveller.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;... but not having any, I settled for a brief prayer of the sort muttered<BR>&gt;aboard starships from the Core to the Extents....<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Apologies in advance if anyone's offended.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;The Traveller's Prayer<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;As misremembered and horribly misquoted from the Church of Stellar<BR>&gt;Divinity's "File of Reverent and Relevant Prayer"....<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Gods in Space... I beseech thee....<BR>&gt;Hear me in this time of second thoughts.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Blessed be this enterprise.<BR>&gt;Unwise though it is.<BR>&gt;Yea, and foolhardy even to the very point of idiocy.<BR>&gt;For we needeth hard cash.<BR>&gt;Yea, and pronto.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Blessed be the Skipper.<BR>&gt;For he Knows What He Is Doing.<BR>&gt;We hope.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Blessed be the Engineer and the Astrogator.<BR>&gt;For the Jump Drive is making a noise.<BR>&gt;Which scares the very pants off me.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Blessed be the Gunner.<BR>&gt;For he is often drunk, and cannot hit a gas giant.<BR>&gt;Yea, and the gunnery software has a glitch.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Blessed be the Pilot.<BR>&gt;For we really do not need another collision.<BR>&gt;And blessed be the Medic and the Steward.<BR>&gt;For all Sophonts are made equal in thine eyes.<BR>&gt;So it'd be unfair to leave anyone out.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;And blessed be the Cargobots.<BR>&gt;Just in case.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Blessed be our ATV.<BR>&gt;For the damn thing (sorry) is falling to bits.<BR>&gt;It'll take a miracle to keep it going.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Blessed also be the local fauna.<BR>&gt;May it leave us the hell alone (sorry again) while we are on-planet.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Oh, and blessed be the local weather systems.<BR>&gt;For our survival tent doth leak.<BR>&gt;Mightily.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Blessed be the local customs enforcement personnel.<BR>&gt;Or better yet, may they be mildly afflicted by chafing undergarments.<BR>&gt;And itching toes.<BR>&gt;That they may be distracted, and not take much notice of us.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Blessed be our ship's papers.<BR>&gt;For they are somewhat dodgy.<BR>&gt;And shall stand no righteous examination by competent persons.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Finally, oh gods, bless me in this time of need.<BR>&gt;For it is by thy will that I am embarked upon this ill-thought-out<BR>&gt;enterprise.<BR>&gt;There can surely be no other reason why I agreed to this lunatic scheme.<BR>&gt;So it's only fair that you help me out.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;And yea, though we walk in the valley of the shadow of death,<BR>&gt;Yet shall we fear no ill.<BR>&gt;(Blessed by my sidearm, by the way)<BR>&gt;For we are righteous, and thine armour of light shall protect us.<BR>&gt;And failing that, we have ACRs and a grenade launcher.<BR>&gt;And they do say that the Gods help those who help themselves.<BR>&gt;Which is what we're doing.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;In a manner of speaking.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Oh gods in space, hear now this prayer.<BR>&gt;For I need all the help I can get on this one.....<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Seasonal thoughts, everyone.<BR>&gt;Regards<BR>&gt;MJD<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 18:55:53 -0500<BR>From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>Subject: An incompetent expert (who's made of straw)<BR><BR>Timothy Little wrote:<BR>&gt;I'd have to characterize your preference as 'fun smaller-than-life<BR>&gt;unpredictability', where "experts" are incompetent and nothing is<BR>&gt;reliable.&nbsp; Nothing wrong with that, casinos make a lot of money from<BR>&gt;the fun factor involved in seeing what chance brings.<BR><BR>Consider an Expert in MT: stat A, skill 4 (a reasonable definition, I hope, and certainly within the bounds of the char-gen system).&nbsp; This guy fails Routine tasks on a Fumble, and Difficult tasks 1/6 of the time.&nbsp; By way of comparison, a Jackie Chan superhero type (stat F, skill 5 -- the max. DM allowed by the system) fails Difficult tasks only on a Fumble and has better than 60% at Formidable tasks (which are, after all, supposed to be Formidable -- by definition).&nbsp; Since your objection can't be to the slight possibility of a Fumble (you've repeatedly stressed the importance of some degree of chance) it must be to that 1/6 of the time our Expert fails a Difficult task.&nbsp; But keep in mind that under normal circumstances our Expert can make a Cautious attempt(lowering the difficulty to Routine), and can also (barring a Fumble) retry failures.&nbsp; So, as long as our Expert is willing and able to take the time to do the job right, he really only fails a Difficult task on a Fumble (!<BR>1 !<BR>!<BR>in 36, roughly 2.8% of the time).&nbsp; The same also applies to Mr. Chan, who can, with enough effort, be near-automatic even with Formidable tasks (such as, say, doing a backflip into a moving vehicle -- it may not look that way in the edited product, but I can guaran-damn-tee you that when they're filming that shot he's being extremely Cautious!).&nbsp; <BR><BR>Other systems may be (and most are) more capricious than this, but that's irrelevant because MT is the system I use -- and I hardly think that accepting a 2.8% failure rate for an Expert proves I "prefer experts to be incompetent and nothing reliable" (i.e. the Straw-Man position you oh-so generously attributed to me above).<BR><BR>Trent<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 18:58:21 -0500<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising<BR><BR>On Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:49:13 -0500 (EST), Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;I'm still amazed that people say "do nothing congress" like it's a bad thing...<BR><BR>I've often thought that the Founders should have put the full stop in the<BR>First Amendment right after the word 'law'.<BR><BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>(Ask me via email about the ILink message network!)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3448<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-zb03.mx.aol.com (rly-zb03.mail.aol.com [172.31.41.3]) by air-zb02.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 19:03:38 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-zb03.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 19:03:04 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id SAA85737;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 18:56:35 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Thu, 21 Dec 2000 18:56:22 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id SAA85691<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 18:56:22 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 18:56:22 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012212356.SAA85691@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3448<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Thursday, December 21 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3449<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Low standards<BR>Re: OT: Kung Fu movies&nbsp; WAS Re: Low standards<BR>Re: My first filk<BR>Re: A Religious Moment....<BR>Re: Low standards<BR>Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR>Re: Low standards<BR>Re: Low standards<BR>Re: Task persistence<BR>RE: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR>Re: Warrant Officers<BR>Re: An incompetent expert (who's made of straw)<BR>Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR>Re: Noble vs. military rank<BR>Re: ACQ was RE: BITS adventures...<BR>Re: Task persistence<BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>Who Won, Who Lost<BR>Re: ACQ was RE: BITS adventures...<BR>Re: ACQ was RE: BITS adventures...<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 11:20:06 +1100<BR>From: Robert Houghton &lt;rhoughto@one.net.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>What about the hivers? If Its the HKAT Traveller Movie we gotta have some Kung-fu Hivers in there somewhere....<BR><BR>Other Rob<BR><BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; On 12/21/00 at 10:10 AM,&nbsp; shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;In mail you write:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; No Walter Koenig has to do that, he plays head of PsiCorp so well in Bab5.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Who would have guessed that Chekov could do "bastard" so well?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;BTW, watching the Babylon5 re-runs on the SciFi channel, I'm very<BR>&gt; &gt;impressed by the way he can say innocent things, in an innocent<BR>&gt; &gt;way, yet somehow manage to make them anything *but* innocent, just<BR>&gt; &gt;because *he* is saying them.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Yeah, it was an absolute revelation to me.&nbsp; Koenig he reminds me a lot of Werner Klemper, when he wasn't playing Col. Klink. Klemper could play a *nasty* wolf in sheeps clothing really, really well, too.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;He'd make a *great* Tvarchedl(sp) officer.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; How about an IRIS operative? &lt;g&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Eris<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt; -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>&gt; eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>&gt; http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>&gt; -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 19:07:14 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT: Kung Fu movies&nbsp; WAS Re: Low standards<BR><BR>At 4:13 PM -0500 12/21/00, James Fleming wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;can't complain about Sammo (he was in that show Martial Law for awhile)<BR>&gt;Something about a real fat guy able to do flips and insane stunts is<BR>&gt;definitely worthy of my respect.<BR><BR>Hm... should have got him to play Vladimir Harkonnen in that mini-series...<BR><BR>&gt;Jet Li who has yet to be cast in the Traveller movie actually did have<BR>&gt;martial arts training.&nbsp; He was a world Wu Shu (chinese for kung fu) champion<BR>&gt;at a very young age and actually performed at the White House for Nixon when<BR>&gt;he was 10.&nbsp; If you ever get a chance and you like these kind of movies, I<BR>&gt;highly recommend almost anything he appears in.&nbsp; His best films, IMHO, if<BR>&gt;anyone's interested are the Once Upon A Time In China series (1 &amp; 2 being<BR>&gt;the best)<BR><BR>Actually, one of my favorites is "King of Adventure", which got some <BR>mainstream video releasing in the States as "Dr. Wai and the <BR>Scripture Without Words" -- the pen *is* mightier than the sword! :) <BR>ObTrav:&nbsp; I've been in gaming groups that were exactly like that <BR>movie.&nbsp; We probably all have been.<BR><BR>Also, as for his role in the HKTM, perhaps *he* should be Trace <BR>Windhook?&nbsp; Morally upright, dashing escapes, fighting through baddies <BR>to safety, etc.<BR><BR>&gt;Well, I've babbled enough about HK action movies.&nbsp; Hope this was of interest<BR>&gt;to at least someone on list.<BR><BR>Many, I should think.<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 18:08:24 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: My first filk<BR><BR>On 12/21/00 at 06:49 PM,&nbsp; "Michael A. Hoxie" &lt;ludowick@juno.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>You'll never get away now!! Muhahaha!<BR><BR>&gt;&lt;Where's Joe Walsh when you need him?&gt;<BR><BR>You probably don't know it, but Joe Walsh&nbsp; is a long time Traveller. I don't think Joe is currently on the list, but I miss his posts.&nbsp; <BR><BR>What you ask? Joe Walsh, the Eagle?<BR><BR>No, not *that* one, I mean the *important* one!&nbsp; The one that liasioned between the TML and Imperium games, the one that wrote the Role Playing Space Combat System with me (RPSCS), that we never got past version 0.90. See, the important one!<BR><BR>Say, does anyone know what happened to Joe?<BR><BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 17:13:39 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: A Religious Moment....<BR><BR>I love it!<BR><BR>MJ Dougherty wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; At this special time of year, I thought I'd share a profound thought about<BR>&gt; religion in Traveller.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ... but not having any, I settled for a brief prayer of the sort muttered<BR>&gt; aboard starships from the Core to the Extents....<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Apologies in advance if anyone's offended.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The Traveller's Prayer<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; As misremembered and horribly misquoted from the Church of Stellar<BR>&gt; Divinity's "File of Reverent and Relevant Prayer"....<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Gods in Space... I beseech thee....<BR>&gt; Hear me in this time of second thoughts.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Blessed be this enterprise.<BR>&gt; Unwise though it is.<BR>&gt; Yea, and foolhardy even to the very point of idiocy.<BR>&gt; For we needeth hard cash.<BR>&gt; Yea, and pronto.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Blessed be the Skipper.<BR>&gt; For he Knows What He Is Doing.<BR>&gt; We hope.<BR><BR>ROFL...In Eris's AKU Moby PBEM we're just coming out of the first jump<BR>in our newly overhauled (by us) ship...I'm the Skipper who thinks he<BR>knows what he's doing, and well, he can always wing it if not...;-)<BR><BR>&gt; Blessed be the Engineer and the Astrogator.<BR>&gt; For the Jump Drive is making a noise.<BR>&gt; Which scares the very pants off me.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Blessed be the Gunner.<BR>&gt; For he is often drunk, and cannot hit a gas giant.<BR>&gt; Yea, and the gunnery software has a glitch.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Blessed be the Pilot.<BR>&gt; For we really do not need another collision.<BR>&gt; And blessed be the Medic and the Steward.<BR>&gt; For all Sophonts are made equal in thine eyes.<BR>&gt; So it'd be unfair to leave anyone out.<BR><BR>Besides ours is so cute (the Medic, not the Steward...who is the sort<BR>given to fraternizing with Vargr ;-P)<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Blessed be the local customs enforcement personnel.<BR>&gt; Or better yet, may they be mildly afflicted by chafing undergarments.<BR>&gt; And itching toes.<BR>&gt; That they may be distracted, and not take much notice of us.<BR><BR>Yea Verily Brutha' !!! Say Hallelujah!<BR><BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 16:14:08 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: William Molendyk &lt;wmolendyk@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>- --- eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>&gt; On 12/21/00 at 02:23 PM,&nbsp; Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt; said:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;Where would Michelle Yeoh fit in the Traveller HK Action Opera? =)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;snip&lt;<BR><BR>&gt; Isn't she the woman that has that running up walls, over roof-tops, etc.<BR>&gt; fight with an assassian in a recent movie? The clip I saw made the movie look<BR>&gt; like an absolute hoot! Too bad, I have no idea what the name of it is. &lt;g&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Eris<BR>&gt; -- <BR><BR>You're probably thinking about _Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon_.&nbsp; I'm hopiing<BR>it starts showing in theatres outside of NYC so I can see it.&nbsp; I'm not going to<BR>the city at this time of year just to see a movie.<BR><BR>William Molendyk<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 16:26:19 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR><BR>Timothy Little writes:<BR>&gt; Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; A BG is probably useful at short ranges (&lt;1 ls) and for stealth;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Yes, I agree.&nbsp; For steal, how long could you absorb sunlight before<BR>&gt; the generators blow up, though?&nbsp; I don't have the info on black globe<BR>&gt; stats nearby.&nbsp; At say, 1000 W/m^2.<BR><BR>Hm...in CT a space of capacitors held 36 ep for 1 turn, or about 3 gigawatt<BR>hours.&nbsp; Assuming a 1000 ton hull with 10 capacitors, it has sa cross-section<BR>of a bit under a thousand square meters, so it will burn out in around 3,000<BR>hours.&nbsp; In GT, energy banks store 15 MWh/ton, or 3.75 GWH/space, which gives<BR>fairly similar endurance (have fun overloading that.&nbsp; A TL 12 laser in GT<BR>outputs 6.75 MW, so 10 triple turrets can overload 10 capacitors in around<BR>a week).<BR><BR>In other rulesets the energy storage is a lot lower, though.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 11:45:31 +1100<BR>From: Robert Houghton &lt;rhoughto@one.net.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>William Molendyk wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; You're probably thinking about _Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon_.&nbsp; I'm hopiing<BR>&gt; it starts showing in theatres outside of NYC so I can see it.&nbsp; I'm not going to<BR>&gt; the city at this time of year just to see a movie.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; William Molendyk<BR><BR>To steal from a certain other game system...what is the SAN cost of chtistmas<BR>shopping? is there some sort of sliding scale depending on the population/(density)<BR>of the area of your local shopping area?<BR><BR>Other Rob<BR>who is tying with his nose 'cos the straightjacket keeps me from the keyboard...but<BR>all my shopping is DONE! bwahahaha...<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 18:32:51 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>Robert Houghton wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; What about the hivers? If Its the HKAT Traveller Movie we gotta have some Kung-fu Hivers in there somewhere....<BR><BR>Ah, yes.&nbsp; The ones who gesture out-of-synch.... ;-)<BR><BR>And what is old is new again (HKFT was a thread in April 2000).<BR><BR>Got me a keyboard kill for the "gesture out-of-synch" idea, as well as<BR>inspiring Jason Kemp to post the following:<BR><BR>**begin blast from the past (27 April 2000)**<BR><BR>That one actually got me laughing out loud so hard, tears were rolling<BR>down<BR>my face! I can just picture it, a big starfish with mops flopping as it<BR>spins, twists, and pulls it's own version of Drunken Style Boxing! And<BR>all<BR>the while, bad Galanglic voice-overs about two seconds behind the floppy<BR>tentacle bits. :)<BR><BR>*snicker, snicker, wiping the eyes*<BR><BR>Hiver Chan flaps his tentacles, then launches into a spinning barrage of<BR>attacks.<BR><BR>Voiceover: "I give her a Yaaa!"<BR><BR>More flapping tentacles, different but equally quivery, followed by<BR>aikido<BR>redirection techniques, Hiver-style.<BR><BR>Voiceover: "And a Hiiiiyaaa!"<BR><BR>Finally, Hiver Chan mounts his intended victim, and pummels them with<BR>three<BR>or four arms at once, amidst more furious flapping.<BR><BR>Voiceover: "And then I keek her, Sir!"<BR><BR>**end blast from the past**<BR><BR>- -- <BR>AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 19:33:17 -0500<BR>From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>Subject: Re: Task persistence<BR><BR>Timothy Little wrote:<BR>&gt; Make that a scale between 'fun larger than life predictability',<BR>&gt;'realistic cause and effect' and 'random unpredictability' and I'll<BR>&gt;agree with you.&nbsp; I prefer somewhere to the left of realism, almost all<BR>&gt;RPGs are to the right.<BR><BR>&gt;"Fun larger-than-life" isn't unpredictable.&nbsp; In the movies Jackie Chan<BR>&gt;doesn't miss when doing backflips into moving vehicles or other<BR>&gt;stunts, no matter what the dice roll.&nbsp; In real life he does, very<BR>&gt;occasionally (which makes insurance companies nervous).&nbsp; In an RPG, he<BR>&gt;would fail a *lot* of the time.&nbsp; Things always happen in Larger than<BR>&gt;Life fiction for a reason, even if that reason is based on the effect<BR>&gt;on the audience.<BR><BR>&gt;'Larger than Life' *eliminates* random chance.<BR>&gt;'Real Life' has some chance, but still largely causal.<BR>&gt;'RPG Life' is dominated by chance.<BR><BR>On this spectrum, I place myself just right of center, but pretty firmly so.&nbsp; The idea of people consistently (or even semi-regularly)doing the seemingly-impossible annoys me, which is one of the reasons I'm generally not that fond of action movies (unless they give a good explanation why this person can do such things).&nbsp; But I do like the idea of someone being able to occasionally 'beat the odds' and do things that would normally, 'realistically,' be deemed impossible.&nbsp; Thus, I like a random 'luck' element.&nbsp; Yes, a side effect of this is that luck works both ways, and occasionally someone will 'screw the pooch' and fail at something that would normally, realistically, be deemed automatic, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.&nbsp; And, besides, as I (hopefully) showed in my previous post, that chance (under normal circumstances) isn't really all that significant anyway.&nbsp; Thus, while I don't want randomness to dominate 'Life,' I do want it to be a factor -- a small but sig!<BR>ni!<BR>!<BR>ficant one -- placing me slightly right of center on your spectrum.&nbsp; QED.<BR><BR>Trent<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 20:32:20 -0000<BR>From: "Mark Preston" &lt;mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR><BR>On Tue, 19 Dec 2000, Legate Legion wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Look, it depends upon who's history you read, the<BR>&gt; Americans say that<BR>&gt; they won the war, the Brits say they won the War, the<BR>&gt; French say that France<BR>&gt; was never invaded &amp; they won the War, so do the Russians,<BR>&gt; the Germans, the<BR>&gt; Japanese, etc.&nbsp; Everyone who fought in WWII won the war<BR>&gt; themselves.&nbsp; It is<BR>&gt; one of the best &amp; worst documented pieces of history.<BR>&gt;<BR>Not really. I've _never_ hear of any British history saying "we" won<BR>the second world war. Certainly no French history that claims they<BR>were not invaded - and even more unlikely is the idea that they could<BR>claim "they" won. The Russians, on the other hand, _do_ have a<BR>legitimate claim that "they" won it. All the Germans I have ever met<BR>are fully aware that they lost, as are the Japanese.<BR><BR>In fact, the _only_ nation that I know of that tries to take credit<BR>for the whole effort is the Americans. Unfortunately, this sort of -<BR>shall we call it - "flexibility with the truth" is fairly typical of<BR>modern America. Consider popular opinions of Vietnam, films such as<BR>Braveheart, The Patriot and the one about the Enigma machine on a<BR>U-boat. Laugh? I would, if it wasn't so sad...<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 19:40:24 -0500<BR>From: michael stasica &lt;stosh@sympatico.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Warrant Officers<BR><BR>"Jones, Dean" wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; At 9:05 AM -0800 12/20/00, AuricTech Shipyards wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; SNIP of Previous post (SNIP)<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; officers aside from the human resources issue of holding a warrant.<BR>&gt; &gt; What's the big deal?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; WOs can demand officer-level perks but still bawl you out for calling them<BR>&gt; 'Sir' if they feel like it :)<BR><BR>Reminds me of some WO in the Canadian Forces and particularly one in the<BR>Militia (Reserve would I believe be the U.S. equiv.).<BR><BR>I have great upper body development for referring to a W.O. as a Sir once.&nbsp; He<BR>promptly corrected my<BR>cadet innocence and cleared it with my C.O. for me to do fifty push-ups on the<BR>square, each week for a month.<BR><BR>I never forgot him and still respect him for his resultant friendship and<BR>subsequent help to this day.<BR><BR>Michael<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 12:46:37 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: An incompetent expert (who's made of straw)<BR><BR>trentfs@ix.netcom.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Consider an Expert in MT: stat A, skill 4 (a reasonable definition,<BR>&gt; I hope, and certainly within the bounds of the char-gen system).<BR><BR>What would you call someone with skill 4 and stat 7?&nbsp; If not an<BR>expert, why not?<BR><BR><BR>&gt; it must be to that 1/6 of the time our Expert fails a Difficult<BR>&gt; task.&nbsp; But keep in mind that under normal circumstances our Expert<BR>&gt; can make a Cautious attempt(lowering the difficulty to Routine), and<BR>&gt; can also (barring a Fumble) retry failures.<BR><BR>So can a skill-0 novice.&nbsp; Compare chances of success.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; The same also applies to Mr. Chan, who can, with enough effort, be<BR>&gt; near-automatic even with Formidable tasks (such as, say, doing a<BR>&gt; backflip into a moving vehicle<BR><BR>Would you allow a PC to do so with similar chances of success?&nbsp; If<BR>not, then you're ruling out even real-world ability, let alone the<BR>fun 'larger than life' that you stated.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Other systems may be (and most are) more capricious than this, but<BR>&gt; that's irrelevant because MT is the system I use -- and I hardly<BR>&gt; think that accepting a 2.8% failure rate for an Expert proves I<BR>&gt; "prefer experts to be incompetent and nothing reliable"<BR><BR>Find me any task that has an insignificant chance for a novice (with<BR>the same stats) to perform, and that an expert can perform reliably,<BR>and we'll talk.&nbsp; Such tasks are very common in the real world.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 12:55:59 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR><BR>Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>&gt; Hm...in CT a space of capacitors held 36 ep for 1 turn, or about 3 gigawatt<BR>&gt; hours.<BR><BR>Wow, that's an incredible amount.&nbsp; Bugger flickering the things at low<BR>percentages like 95% for a joke: turn on the black globe and coast to<BR>the target while your enemies' beams play ineffectually across the<BR>surface.&nbsp; Flicker the globe for a microsecond or so every few seconds<BR>to fire back.&nbsp; (i.e. switched on 99.99999% of the time)<BR><BR>Nukes going off would be a bit difficult to absorb, but they're<BR>disallowed, aren't they?<BR><BR><BR>(Ouch -- a near-C rock covered by a black globe would be even more<BR>impossible to stop than a near-C rock alone)<BR><BR><BR>&gt; In other rulesets the energy storage is a lot lower, though.<BR><BR>I'm just thinking of the possibilities of such dense energy storage<BR>devices.&nbsp; 3 GW-hr is about 3 kilotons of TNT.&nbsp; Hmm -- even nukes are<BR>probably absorbable.&nbsp; Probably it's best that other rulesets have<BR>lower storage.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 20:56:15 -0500<BR>From: "Thom Harris" &lt;thomharr@mediaone.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Noble vs. military rank<BR><BR>Not picking on your post Doug, just using it as carrier to put to rest (I<BR>hope) the role of Warrant Officers in the U.S. Military. First off, the Air<BR>Force doesn't use the rank anymore. They either converted them to<BR>commissioned officers or waited for them to retire. The Navy starts their<BR>Warrant Officers off at CWO-2 because they require their W.O.'s to be CPO's<BR>before they can apply. The Marine Corps is similar but they have their<BR>W.O.'s start at WO-1 (Just like Army). The U.S. Army has 14,500 W.O. slots<BR>out of the approximately 1.5 million people on active duty. Of these about<BR>6,500 are aviation W.O.'s. They fly the helo's and the few fixed wing<BR>aircraft the U.S.Army owns. This leaves about 8,000 slots for the<BR>"Technical" W.O.'s. The Army does appoint E-8's to CWO-2 but everyone else<BR>(I knew of one E-5 getting selected, he was in Nuke stuff) starts at WO-1.<BR>When I was appointed in 1982 there were 36 slots in my career field and<BR>about 1,200 enlisted slots. With 8 applicants for one slot, I was selected<BR>number 32 (the other four slots were held open &lt;unfunded&gt; for War time<BR>fills). To say the least, you feel very elite after you pin that bar on.<BR><BR>Warrant Officers were given the option of being "Commissioned" in 1989. This<BR>allowed us to perform in command positions and swear in/re-enlist our<BR>subordinates (a great feeling) amongst other things. Warrant Officers out<BR>rank ALL enlisted grades (Command Sergeant Major included) and fell under<BR>Second Lieutenants. CW-3 and up were allowed "Field Grade" (Major and up)<BR>privileges when getting housing, catching Mac flights and so forth. I<BR>retired as a CW-2 (P).<BR><BR>A funny story concerning how much pull a CWO has follows. My last year in<BR>the Army I worked for a Captain. We had been given a special project and<BR>they had appointed a Major to head up the working group. He started giving<BR>us some crap day one. After a couple of days, my young Captain went to our<BR>Lieutenant Colonel and complained that this Major was making more waves than<BR>helping. The LTC looked at him and said "well if he gets too much out of<BR>line, your Chief will straighten his ass out." Needless to say, my young<BR>Captain came back to my desk and discussed it with me, I had a talk with the<BR>Major and he left us alone forever after. My Captain became a whole lot more<BR>humble after that.<BR><BR>On Ripley's rank of Warrant Officer, it was very common in the "Merchant<BR>Marine" to follow the ranks in the Navy. Quite often ships "pilots" were<BR>Warrant Officers. In Aliens (#2) one of the perks for her to go back to the<BR>planet was she would be reinstated, with full rank and privileges. This<BR>would have still been in effect for Alien 3. I'm not sure what you could say<BR>about Alien 4 concerning her rank. I don't think she was a Marine at all<BR>though. In fact, they had to teach her how to use the weapons in #2 when<BR>they were sealing the base camp/ops. What's is every Marine's&nbsp; first MOS,<BR>infantry. That pretty much makes it no way that she was in the Marines.<BR><BR>Thom Harris - GOFIR - &lt;Gnarly Old Fart In Residence&gt;<BR>"I spent most of my money on Wine, Women and Song; the rest I just wasted."<BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 6:53 PM<BR>Subject: RE: Noble vs. military rank<BR><BR><BR>&gt; At 11:05 AM 12/20/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;So... they're just different names and types of paper for the top<BR>&gt; &gt;layer of NCOs?&nbsp; Is that all?*<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Well, in the US military, Warrant Officers occupy a nebulous region<BR>between<BR>&gt; commissioned officers and the top level NCOs.&nbsp; They recieve much of the<BR>&gt; same level of repect you give "real" officers, but can't give legal<BR>orders.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Most of our technical types are WOs.&nbsp; Pilots, communciations wonks..<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>&gt; http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 01:33:07 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: ACQ was RE: BITS adventures...<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt; writes:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;If the suspense is killing you look at either<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;http://www.warehouse23.com/ or http://www.bits.org.uk/ and have a<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;look at the entries for 'At Close Quarters' under the products.<BR>&gt; &gt; Geeze, just say Snapshot on steroids! Ken will get it. &lt;g&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Hum, he'll probably get it in both senses of the expression. &lt;bg&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;But, just checked out ACQ....DAMN COOL!<BR><BR>It is very good - James and Doug did some fine work. And it will <BR>easily bolt into CT and MT to as it is task based. The combat system <BR>includes handy summaries of all the weapons/armour in T4 and T4: EA, <BR>plus obvious missing stuff (like armour values per thickness for <BR>different materials).<BR><BR>&gt;I just might have to start getting me some of this BITS stuff...<BR><BR>Well, you can get around 3 for the price of a GT book.<BR><BR>I'd suggest 101 Patrons, ACQ and 101 Travellers as a good starter, <BR>although 101 Rendezvous and 101 Lifeforms would also be in my <BR>referee's survival kit.<BR><BR>Dom - biased - BITS Webmaster and TMLr<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 13:02:01 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Task persistence<BR><BR>trentfs@ix.netcom.com wrote:<BR><BR>[... chance spectrum ...]<BR>&gt; &gt;'Larger than Life' *eliminates* random chance.<BR>&gt; &gt;'Real Life' has some chance, but still largely causal.<BR>&gt; &gt;'RPG Life' is dominated by chance.<BR><BR>&gt; On this spectrum, I place myself just right of center, but pretty<BR>&gt; firmly so.<BR><BR>Yep, tastes differ.&nbsp; I prefer things left of centre.&nbsp; Note that dice<BR>rolls in an RPG do not have to represent random chance in the<BR>game-world, so I'd be happy enough using dice in an RPG for a<BR>completely deterministic game-world.&nbsp; I can live with playing in a<BR>causeless game world, though I would prefer not to.<BR><BR>One thing I really *hate*, though, is having people mistake dice rolls<BR>for expressions of character skill when they aren't at all correlated.<BR>That's what got me started on the whole "persistent causes" thing in<BR>the first place.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 02:07:25 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>At 18:56 -0500 21/12/00,&nbsp; Timothy Little <BR>&lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;It does if you plan it that way.&nbsp; In fact you can plan it so the<BR>&gt;earliest emergence is at the 100D limit, and all later emergences have<BR>&gt;the exit point inside that limit.&nbsp; Then it's guaranteed that you exit<BR>&gt;at the 100D limit, and have a velocity vector pre-aimed nearby (not<BR>&gt;directly pointed at the planet for traffic control reasons) so you<BR>&gt;only have to decelerate on arrival.<BR><BR>It is guaranteed that you exit at 100D - Marc posted to this effect <BR>recently that ships automatically precipitate from jump at 100D <BR>limits. Nothing has been said about encountering a body in jump, or <BR>wether this would precipitate at &lt;168 hours.<BR><BR>Marc also mentioned that an object bigger than your ship is required <BR>to cause an early jump precipitation.<BR><BR>This has several impacts - jump masking (as detailed in FT), the <BR>impact of the stellar 100D limit being major of some systems as well.<BR><BR>It would be good to know if the 100D limit is mean to be an <BR>approximation as I'm curious if a ship actually has to get with 100D <BR>of a black hole to precipitate out...<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 21:12:30 -0500<BR>From: "Daniel Phelps" &lt;phelpsd@gate.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Who Won, Who Lost<BR><BR>&gt;Was Written:<BR><BR>&gt; Americans say that<BR>&gt;&gt; they won the war, the Brits say they won the War, the<BR>&gt;&gt; French say that France<BR>&gt;&gt; was never invaded &amp; they won the War, so do the Russians,<BR>&gt;&gt; the Germans, the<BR>&gt;&gt; Japanese, etc.&nbsp; Everyone who fought in WWII won the war<BR>&gt;&gt; themselves.<BR><BR>Nope sorry but you are wrong, not put salt in the wound at this late date,<BR>but at least very least the Finns know that they lost for the second time in<BR>the same generation against more or less the same foe.<BR><BR>Dan<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 18:09:23<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: ACQ was RE: BITS adventures...<BR><BR>At 07:17 PM 12/21/2000 +0000, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;BTW Kenneth if Doug doesn't respond soon on ACQ I will.<BR><BR>Dom, remember I work for an airport shuttle company.&nbsp; This week I'm having<BR>trouble remembering that I co-wrote the damn thing, let alone being able to<BR>give details about it.<BR><BR>Shit.&nbsp; Time to go back to work.&nbsp; *whimper*<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 20:37:41 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: ACQ was RE: BITS adventures...<BR><BR>Dominic Mooney wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt; writes:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;If the suspense is killing you look at either<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;http://www.warehouse23.com/ or http://www.bits.org.uk/ and have a<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;look at the entries for 'At Close Quarters' under the products.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Geeze, just say Snapshot on steroids! Ken will get it. &lt;g&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Hum, he'll probably get it in both senses of the expression. &lt;bg&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;But, just checked out ACQ....DAMN COOL!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; It is very good - James and Doug did some fine work. And it will<BR>&gt; easily bolt into CT and MT to as it is task based. The combat system<BR>&gt; includes handy summaries of all the weapons/armour in T4 and T4: EA,<BR>&gt; plus obvious missing stuff (like armour values per thickness for<BR>&gt; different materials).<BR><BR>Not to mention the weapons stats for two different types of penguins (as<BR>both melee and thrown weapons).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;I just might have to start getting me some of this BITS stuff...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Well, you can get around 3 for the price of a GT book.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I'd suggest 101 Patrons, ACQ and 101 Travellers as a good starter,<BR>&gt; although 101 Rendezvous and 101 Lifeforms would also be in my<BR>&gt; referee's survival kit.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dom - biased - BITS Webmaster and TMLr<BR><BR>I also humbly suggest that you consider purchasing the upcoming _101<BR>Corporations_, once it is released.&nbsp; Heck, buy enough copies for each of<BR>your gaming group to have one!&nbsp; Each corporation has one or more<BR>adventure seeds to help expand your campaign.<BR><BR>(Yes, I'm one of the contributors.&nbsp; BITS member John Wood deserves most<BR>of the credit, though, for writing most of the corporations, refining<BR>the Universal Corporate Profile, and editing the various contributions.)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3449<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yd02.mx.aol.com (rly-yd02.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.2]) by air-yd05.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 21:43:39 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yd02.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 21:42:59 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id VAA99280;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 21:35:36 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Thu, 21 Dec 2000 21:35:27 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id VAA99236<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 21:35:26 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 21:35:26 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012220235.VAA99236@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3449<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3450</B></TD></TR>
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<TD>12/21/00 10:19:45 PM Pacific Standard Time</TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Friday, December 22 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3450<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: ACQ was RE: BITS adventures...<BR>RE: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: Noble vs. military rank<BR>Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: true words<BR>Nostalgia Week Continues (long, but _worth_ it!)<BR>RE: My first filk<BR>Re: Nostalgia Week Continues (long, but _worth_ it!)<BR>RE: flickering black globes useless?<BR>RE: Noble vs. military rank<BR>Re: An incompetent expert (who's made of straw)<BR>Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>World Builder<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 14:14:25 +1100<BR>From: Robert Houghton &lt;rhoughto@one.net.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: ACQ was RE: BITS adventures...<BR><BR>"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; At 07:17 PM 12/21/2000 +0000, you wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;BTW Kenneth if Doug doesn't respond soon on ACQ I will.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Dom, remember I work for an airport shuttle company.&nbsp; This week I'm having<BR>&gt; trouble remembering that I co-wrote the damn thing, let alone being able to<BR>&gt; give details about it.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Shit.&nbsp; Time to go back to work.&nbsp; *whimper*<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>And poor Doug loses another 4d6 SAN....<BR><BR>Other Rob<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 21:03:47 -0600<BR>From: Charles R Hensley &lt;hensley.cr@gte.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 4. So we can have Ditzie T-Shirts made with "The Jesse<BR>&gt; Degraff Monthly<BR>&gt; &gt; Fun Shoot" printed on then.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Actually, It occurs to me that we ought to have some T-shirts or even<BR>&gt; jackets done up:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Famile Spofulam<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Heavy Weapons<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Testing Team<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; or some such.<BR><BR>It would have to be<BR><BR>Famile Spofulam<BR>Light Weapons<BR>Testing Team<BR><BR>As nothing at the Oregon Fun Shoot qualifies as a "Heavy Weapon" to<BR>Famile Spofulam.<BR><BR>Charles H<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:20:40 -0800<BR>From: Tod Glenn &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>on 12/20/00 10:43 AM, Jesse Degraff at jedegraf@cisco.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Oooooo, I LIKE it!!!!&nbsp; Now if Mom would only hurry up and get that computer<BR>&gt; controlled embroidery machine she was talking about.....Must be the $12,000<BR>&gt; price tag.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Or just get some of the HP iron-on paper...<BR><BR>Ditzie's Gun-o-rama and love bunker.<BR><BR>Tod<BR>- --<BR>When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend"<BR>- -- <BR>Tod L Glenn<BR>webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.solsec.org<BR>http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>http://travellerguns.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:33:45 -0800<BR>From: Tod Glenn &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Noble vs. military rank<BR><BR>on 12/19/00 4:58 PM, Hans Rancke-Madsen at rancke@diku.dk wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I would also recommend the books about the Royal Navy of the Napoleonic Era by<BR>&gt; C.S.Forester, Patrick O'Brian, Dudley Pope, C.Northcote Parkinson and several<BR>&gt; others. In one of Forrester's books Hormblower has a German prince as a<BR>&gt; midshipman (and his chamberlain as Ship's Surgeon ;-). Dudley Pope's hero is<BR>&gt; the<BR>&gt; eldest son of an earl and is entitled to use his title (Lieutenant Lord<BR>&gt; Ramage),<BR>&gt; but doesn't use it in the service to avoid embarrasing any non-noble captains<BR>&gt; or<BR>&gt; admirals he serves under.<BR><BR>I'm a big fan of O'Brien and Forrester.&nbsp; However, I was thinking in terms of<BR>"Damn the Defiant". A well connected underling raises havoc among the ranks.<BR><BR>Tod<BR>- --<BR>When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend"<BR>- -- <BR>Tod L Glenn<BR>webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.solsec.org<BR>http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>http://travellerguns.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:31:09 -0800<BR>From: Tod Glenn &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>on 12/19/00 8:35 PM, eris@pcola.gulf.net at eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; On 12/19/00 at 02:38 PM,&nbsp; "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt; said:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Come to Oregon, and we will let you shoot machineguns.&nbsp; Next fun<BR>&gt;&gt; shoot is in May 2001. Two full days of full auto fun.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Hey, that could be the slogan for Oregon's tourist advertising<BR>&gt; campaign!&nbsp; I can see it now...bumper stickers, TV commercials with<BR>&gt; snappy visuals and deafening sound effects, tiny machinegun trinkets<BR>&gt; and paper weights.&nbsp; It would bring in just the sort of folks Oregon<BR>&gt; wants, right?<BR><BR>I'm still trying to figure out what kind of people Oregon wants, or who is a<BR>typical Oregonian.&nbsp; We have ultra conservatives, anarchists, dead-head<BR>twirlers, a huge gay and lesbian population, hippie communes that have<BR>survived from the 60s, all in a relatively cordial blend.<BR><BR>Whatever you do or are is "OK". It's your thing, man.<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Ob Trav:&nbsp; any stupid tourist ad campaign that the PC's get mixed up<BR>&gt; with<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Eris<BR><BR>- --<BR>When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend"<BR>- -- <BR>Tod L Glenn<BR>webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.solsec.org<BR>http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>http://travellerguns.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:25:36 -0800<BR>From: Tod Glenn &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: true words<BR><BR>on 12/20/00 9:25 AM, Steve (Bloo) Daniels at sdaniels@playnet.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; There is increasing pressure to split some of the<BR>&gt; intangible parts of California, particularly, the<BR>&gt; US Federal 9th Circuit Court of Appeals.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Currently it covers California, Oregon, Washington,<BR>&gt; Arizona, Montana, Idaho, Nevada, Alaska, Hawaii,<BR>&gt; Guam and the Northern Mariana Islands.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The amount of work it has to do just to deal with<BR>&gt; California is so great that some are advocating not<BR>&gt; only that California have it's own federal circuit,<BR>&gt; but that it have two!<BR><BR>And most of the rest of the area would like to see the 9th split up as well.<BR>What a collection of characters.&nbsp; As I recall, the 9th is overruled in<BR>appeal more than any other district court--and lead by a huge margin.<BR><BR>And given the liberal bias of the 9th, I would expect a Republican<BR>administration to review this.<BR><BR>Strangely, US political boundries often have nothing to do with culture,<BR>attitude, etc.&nbsp; Many think that the Oregon/Washington should have been an<BR>east-west split along the cascades (wet/dry siders).<BR><BR>ObTrav.&nbsp; None, sorry.<BR>- --<BR>When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend"<BR>- -- <BR>Tod L Glenn<BR>webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.solsec.org<BR>http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>http://travellerguns.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 21:28:02 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Nostalgia Week Continues (long, but _worth_ it!)<BR><BR>Over the past couple of days, I've reposted material from the TML's<BR>illustrious (recent) past.&nbsp; I have mentioned (and reposted) discussions<BR>ranging from Hiver Kung-Fu Theater to the Son of Santanocheev.<BR><BR>&lt;hiver handwave&gt; Trivial, compared to what I'm about to repost. &lt;/hiver<BR>handwave&gt;<BR><BR>In December of 1998, a few months after I joined the TML, a post<BR>appeared that, IMHO, sums up the glory that the TML has known.&nbsp; Sadly,<BR>my archive of this post rests on a computer that is no longer<BR>functioning.&nbsp; I mentioned this thread a short time ago.<BR><BR>Fortunately, the TML is a truly global, truly sharing organization.&nbsp; One<BR>of our members heard my plea, and forwarded the original Ravioli Rail<BR>Gun post which I repost here tonight.&nbsp; My thanks to this individual (I<BR>refrain from mentioning this person's name for possible privacy<BR>reasons).&nbsp; You know who you are; feel free to let the TML know that it<BR>is by your grace that our newer members can now view this epochal post.<BR><BR>May we all learn and profit from this example.<BR><BR>**begin repost [original post: 30 Dec 1998]**<BR><BR>- ------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 08:31:46 -0500<BR>From: "Peter H. Brenton" &lt;pbrenton@mit.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: HUMOR/Physics; Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas.<BR><BR>This is humor only people at MIT...or on the Traveller Mailing<BR>list...can<BR>appreciate.&nbsp; Ravioli rail guns anyone?<BR>While humorous in primary intent, this article also contains important<BR>information about impact effects at vars. speeds...of a can of ravioli.<BR><BR>- - ------- Forwarded Message<BR>&gt;&gt;To: 0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org<BR>&gt;Subject: Under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas.<BR>&gt;Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:43:20 -0500<BR>&gt;From: glen mccready &lt;glen@qnx.com<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>[snip forwards]<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;There was still one aspect of the whole concept of a ravioli-loaded<BR>&gt;&gt;railgun type wepon which we, lolling about late on a weeknight, with<BR>&gt;&gt;only a few neurons randomly firing, could not resolve.&nbsp; Would a chunk<BR>&gt;&gt;of metal (can of ravioli) impacting another, larger, rest mass<BR>&gt;&gt;structure (star destroyer) produce an "explosion" effect, or simply<BR>&gt;&gt;punch an appropriately shaped hole as it passed through?&nbsp; Bill?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;What am I, the neighborhood blast physicist???&nbsp; Well, maybe... :-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;It all depends on speed of impact versus the speed of sound in the target<BR>&gt;(what is called the Mach number, where Mach 1 means the speed of sound,<BR>&gt;Mach 2 is twice the speed of sound, etc), and the speed of the ravioli<BR>&gt;versus the speed of light in the target (which I'll call the Cerenkov<BR>&gt;number, where Cerenkov 1 is the speed of light in anything; Cerenkov 1.3<BR>&gt;is the speed of high-energy protons in a water-cooled reactor (that's why<BR>&gt;you get that nifty blue glow), and you can get up to Cerenkov 2.4 using<BR>&gt;diamonds and nuclear accellerators.&nbsp; In the late 40's people used to talk<BR>&gt;about Cerenkov numbers, but they don't anymore.&nbsp; Pity.).&nbsp; Lastly, there's<BR>&gt;the ravioli velocity expressed as a fraction of the speed of light in a<BR>&gt;vacuum (that is, as a fraction of "c").&nbsp; "C" velocities are always between<BR>&gt;0 and 1.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;At low speeds (REAL low) the ravioli will simply flow over the surface,<BR>&gt;yielding a space-cruiser with a distinctly Italian paint job.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Faster (still well below speed-of-sound in the target) the metal of the<BR>&gt;space-cruiser's skin will distort downward, making what we Boston drivers<BR>&gt;call a "small dent".<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Faster still, you may have a "big dent" or maybe even a "big dent with a<BR>&gt;hole in the middle", caused by the ravioli having enough energy to push<BR>&gt;the dent through, stretching and thinning the hull metal till the metal<BR>&gt;finally tears in the middle of the dent.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Getting up past Mach 1 (say, 5000 feet/sec for steel), you start to get<BR>&gt;punch-a-hole-shaped-like-the-object effects, because the metal is being<BR>&gt;asked to move faster than the binding forces in the object can propagate<BR>&gt;the "HEY!&nbsp; MOVE!" information.&nbsp; (After all, sound is just the binding<BR>&gt;forces between atoms in a material moving the adjacent atoms -- and the<BR>&gt;speed of sound is how fast the message to "move" can propagate.)&nbsp; From<BR>&gt;this, we see that WileE Coyote often reached far-supersonic speeds because<BR>&gt;he often punched silhouette-type holes in rocks, cliffs, trucks, etc.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Around Mach 4 or so, another phenomenon starts -- compressive heating.<BR>&gt;This is where the leading edge of the ravioli actually starts being heated<BR>&gt;by compression (remember PV=nRT, the ideal gas law?)&nbsp; Well, ravioli isn't<BR>&gt;a gas, but under enough pressure, ravioli behaves as a gas.&nbsp; It is<BR>&gt;compressed at the instant of impact and gets hot -- very hot.&nbsp; Likewise,<BR>&gt;the impact point on the hull is compressed and gets hot.&nbsp; Both turn to<BR>&gt;gasses -- real gasses, glowing-white-hot gasses.&nbsp; The gasses expand<BR>&gt;spherically, causing crater-like effects, including a raised rim and a<BR>&gt;basically parabolic shape.&nbsp; In the center of the crater, some material is<BR>&gt;vaporized, then there's a melt zone, then a larger "bent" zone, and the<BR>&gt;raised rim is caused because the gas expansion bubble center point (the<BR>&gt;bending force) is actually *inside* the hull plate.&nbsp; If the hull plate<BR>&gt;isn't thick enough, then the gas-expansion bubble pushes through to the<BR>&gt;other side, and you get a structural breach event (technically speaking,<BR>&gt;a "big hole") in the side of the space-cruiser.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Compressive heating really hits the stride up around 20,000 feet/sec (Mach<BR>&gt;4 in steel, Mach 15 in air) and continues as a major factor all the way<BR>&gt;up to the high fractional Cerenkov speeds, where nuclear forces begin to<BR>&gt;take effect.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Aside: the "re-entry friction heating" that spacecraft endure when the<BR>&gt;reenter the atmosphere is NOT friction.&nbsp; It's really compressive heating<BR>&gt;of the air in the path.&nbsp; As long as the spacecraft is faster than Mach 1,<BR>&gt;the air can't know to get out of the way, so it bunches up in front of<BR>&gt;the spacecraft.&nbsp; When you squeeze any gas, it gets hot.&nbsp; So, the glowing<BR>&gt;"reentry gas" is really just squeezed air, which heats the spacecraft heat<BR>&gt;shield by conduction and infrared.&nbsp; The hypersonic ravioli can be expected<BR>&gt;to behave similarly.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;As we increase speed from the high Mach numbers (about 10 miles/sec) all<BR>&gt;the way up to about 150,000 miles/sec, not much different happens except<BR>&gt;that the amount of kinetic energy (which turns into compressive heat)<BR>&gt;increases.&nbsp; This is a huge range of velocity, but it's uninteresting<BR>&gt;velocity.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;At high fractional Cerenkov speeds, the ravioli is now beginning to travel<BR>&gt;at relativistic velocities.&nbsp; Among other things, this means that the<BR>&gt;ravioli is aging more slowly than usual, and the ravioli can looks<BR>&gt;compressed in the direction of travel.&nbsp; But that's really not important<BR>&gt;right now.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;As we pass Cerenkov 1.0 in the target, we get a new phenomenon -- Cerenkov<BR>&gt;radiation.&nbsp; This is that distinctive blue glow seen around water-cooled<BR>&gt;reactors.&nbsp; It's just (relatively) harmless light (harmless compared to<BR>&gt;the other blast effects, that is).&nbsp; I mention it only because it's so<BR>&gt;nifty...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;At around .9 c (Cerenkov 1.1) , the ravioli starts to perceptibly weigh<BR>&gt;more.&nbsp; It's just a relativistic mass increase -- all the additional weight<BR>&gt;is actually energy, available to do compressive heating upon impact.&nbsp; The<BR>&gt;extra weight is converted to heat energy according to the equation E=mc^2;<BR>&gt;it looks like compressive heating but it's not.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;[Here's where I'm a little hazy on the numbers; I'm at work and<BR>&gt;don't have time to rederive the Lorentz transformations.]<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;At around .985 c (Cerenkov 1.2 or so), the ravioli now weighs twice what<BR>&gt;it used to weigh. For a one pound can, that's two pounds... or about sixty<BR>&gt;megatons of excess energy.&nbsp; All of it turns to heat on impact.&nbsp; Probably<BR>&gt;very little is left of the space-cruiser.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;At around .998 c, the impacting ravioli begins to behave less like ravioli<BR>&gt;and more like an extremely intense radiation beam.&nbsp; Protons in the water<BR>&gt;of the ravioli begin to successfully penetrate the nuclei of the hull<BR>&gt;metal.&nbsp; Thermonuclear interactions, such as hydrogen fusion, may take<BR>&gt;place in the tomato sauce.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;At around .9998 c, the ravioli radiation beam is still wimpy as far as<BR>&gt;nuclear accellerator energy is concerned, but because there is so much of<BR>&gt;it, we can expect a truly powerful blast of mixed radiation coming out of<BR>&gt;the impact site.&nbsp; Radiation, not mechanical blast, may become the largest<BR>&gt;hazard to any surviving crew members.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;At around .9999999 c, the ravioli radiation may begin to produce<BR>&gt;"interesting" nuclear particles and events (heavy, short-lived particles).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;At around .999999999999 c, the ravioli impact site may begin to resemble<BR>&gt;conditions in the original "big bang"; equilibrium between matter and<BR>&gt;energy; free pair production; antimatter and matter coexisting in<BR>&gt;equilibrium with a very intense gamma-ray flux, etc.[1]<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Past that, who knows?&nbsp; It may be possible to generate quantum black holes<BR>&gt;given a sufficiently high velocity can of ravioli.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; --Bill<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;[1]According to physicist W. Murray, we may also expect raining frogs,<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; plagues of locusts, cats and dogs living together, real Old Testament<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; destruction.&nbsp; You get the idea...<BR><BR>**end repost**<BR><BR>- -- <BR>AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 16:49:23 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: My first filk<BR><BR>Michael A. Hoxie wrote :<BR>&gt; "Welcome to the Traveller Mailing List"&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;Ahem.&nbsp; Mi mi mi...&gt;<BR><BR>Bravo ! Bravissinmo !<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 21:46:45 -0600<BR>From: "Pat Connaughton" &lt;patconnaughton@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Nostalgia Week Continues (long, but _worth_ it!)<BR><BR>Talk about religious moment.......<BR>a sense of awe and wonder......<BR><BR>Thanks<BR>Pat Connaughton<BR>e-mail - ptconn@earthlink.net<BR>homepage - www.home.earthink.net/~ptconn<BR>ICQ # 2535086<BR>"He who knows not how to dissemble knows not<BR>how to reign"<BR>Tiberius, Emperator and Princips of Rome<BR><BR><BR>- ----- <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 23:09:16 -0500<BR>From: "Terry Carlino" &lt;carlino@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: flickering black globes useless?<BR><BR>Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; A BG is probably useful at short ranges (&lt;1 ls) and for stealth;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Yes, I agree.&nbsp; For steal, how long could you absorb sunlight before<BR>&gt;the generators blow up, though?&nbsp; I don't have the info on black globe<BR>&gt;stats nearby.&nbsp; At say, 1000 W/m^2.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; it might be more useful if the flicker rate is such that it disrupts<BR>&gt;&gt; individual shots rather than stopping a faction of them, since that<BR>&gt;&gt; could make the diferrence between penetration and no penetration.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;That would be more useful, megahertz to gigahertz frequencies.&nbsp; What<BR>&gt;happens from the inside of the black globe, though, if it absorbs part<BR>&gt;of your own shots?&nbsp; I suppose you could always turn it off for a bit<BR>&gt;longer just while you fire, a few microseconds instead of nanoseconds.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Worse though, is what happens to drive exhaust (if any) when you have<BR>&gt;a black globe turned on?&nbsp; Reactionless thrusters are magic anyway, so<BR>&gt;ignore them.&nbsp; But for those who use fusion rockets or something,<BR>&gt;that's a *lot* of energy being absorbed.&nbsp; Probably enough to overload<BR>&gt;the projectors in a very short time indeed.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>I've always assumed that BG's flickered at MHz to GHz frequencies using<BR>agile frequency technology. This is a method used now to prevent jamming of<BR>radar by have the radar frequency change randomly. The ship's weapons and rx<BR>thrusters are synced to the BG flicker frequency as are the sensors and so<BR>are only active when the BG field is off. This is why some energy gets<BR>through, because and laser shot that hits the field for a time measured in<BR>seconds instead of microseconds will have some energy leak through.<BR>While rx thrusters could be used, other forms of propulsion will not be.<BR><BR>Terry C<BR>All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>Not all who travel are lost<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 23:23:05 -0500<BR>From: "Terry Carlino" &lt;carlino@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Noble vs. military rank<BR><BR>In the Navy Warrants are commissioned officers, fully capable of giving a<BR>legal order. That is W-2 and above can. There are no W-1's, the only kind of<BR>Warrant Officers in the Navy who would actually hold a warrant vice a<BR>commission. Most Navy warrants are technical specialists.<BR><BR>Terry C<BR>All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>Not all who travel are lost<BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Douglas E. Berry<BR>Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 6:53 PM<BR>To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: RE: Noble vs. military rank<BR><BR>At 11:05 AM 12/20/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;So... they're just different names and types of paper for the top<BR>&gt;layer of NCOs?&nbsp; Is that all?*<BR><BR>Well, in the US military, Warrant Officers occupy a nebulous region between<BR>commissioned officers and the top level NCOs.&nbsp; They recieve much of the<BR>same level of repect you give "real" officers, but can't give legal orders.<BR><BR>Most of our technical types are WOs.&nbsp; Pilots, communciations wonks..<BR>- --<BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 21:00:02 -0800<BR>From: "Trent Smith" &lt;trentfs@ix.netcom.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: An incompetent expert (who's made of straw)<BR><BR>Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; trentfs@ix.netcom.com wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Consider an Expert in MT: stat A, skill 4 (a reasonable definition,<BR>&gt; &gt; I hope, and certainly within the bounds of the char-gen system).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; What would you call someone with skill 4 and stat 7?&nbsp; If not an<BR>&gt; expert, why not?<BR>&gt;<BR>Still an expert, but a somewhat less naturally-talented one.&nbsp; Note that this<BR>character is still near-automatic at Routine skills.&nbsp; He's got a worse<BR>chance on Difficult tasks (28% chance of failure vs 17%), but with Caution<BR>those become Routine, in which case they're equal again.&nbsp; With Formidable<BR>tasks (Difficult, with Caution) the difference really begins to show, but<BR>with tasks that hard it seems entirely appropriate to me that a more<BR>'naturally talented' character would be at an advantage.<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; it must be to that 1/6 of the time our Expert fails a Difficult<BR>&gt; &gt; task.&nbsp; But keep in mind that under normal circumstances our Expert<BR>&gt; &gt; can make a Cautious attempt(lowering the difficulty to Routine), and<BR>&gt; &gt; can also (barring a Fumble) retry failures.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; So can a skill-0 novice.&nbsp; Compare chances of success.<BR>&gt;<BR>Well, the stat A, skill-0 character has a 17% chance of failing a Routine<BR>task, compared to the expert's 2.7%, making failure 6 times as likely.&nbsp; On a<BR>Difficult task (or a Cautious Formidable), the expert has a 17% chance of<BR>failure, and the novice is 83% likely to fail (still 6x).&nbsp; He's also 58%<BR>likely to have an Exceptional Failure, which means no re-tries (the only way<BR>the expert gets an exceptional failure at this difficulty is by Fumbling).<BR>On an Formidable task (or Cautious Impossible) even the expert is 83% likely<BR>to fail (58% for exceptional failure), but the novice can't possibly<BR>succeed! (note that in MT a rolled 2 is a fumble, but there is no equivalent<BR>'automatic success' rule)<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; The same also applies to Mr. Chan, who can, with enough effort, be<BR>&gt; &gt; near-automatic even with Formidable tasks (such as, say, doing a<BR>&gt; &gt; backflip into a moving vehicle<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Would you allow a PC to do so with similar chances of success?&nbsp; If<BR>&gt; not, then you're ruling out even real-world ability, let alone the<BR>&gt; fun 'larger than life' that you stated.<BR>&gt;<BR>In similar circumstances, I'd give a similarly-skilled PC the exact same<BR>chance of success.&nbsp; However, the likelihood of a PC being on a<BR>tightly-controlled film set performing stuntwork (which is what I had in<BR>mind in my example) is pretty slim.&nbsp; Were a PC trying to do a backflip into<BR>a moving vehicle in 'real life' the circumstances would probably be quite<BR>different -- little chance for Caution, and, most importantly, without a<BR>net/bungee/whatever to catch him if he falls, the task goes from being Safe<BR>to being both Fateful and Hazardous (i.e. no retries, automatic bad mishap<BR>on a failure).&nbsp; The controlled circumstances during the filming of a movie<BR>are much different from the sort of frantic life-and-death situations that<BR>typically come up during play.<BR><BR>As for being larger-than-life, I don't mean consistently (which, in another<BR>post, I've pointed out that I dislike) but rather possibly: a character in a<BR>game has a 1 or 2% chance at something that in real life he might only have<BR>a 1 in 1000 chance at.&nbsp; If that means the character will also fail 1 or 2%<BR>of the time at something he wouldn't have expected to*, I can't say that<BR>really bothers me.&nbsp; Apparently is does bother you.&nbsp; Oh well, we can't all<BR>agree on everything.<BR><BR>*or not, even.&nbsp; If a character can only fail a task by Fumbling, I'm not<BR>likely to make him roll, unless there's likelihood of a really bad Mishap on<BR>a failure.&nbsp; On the other hand, I'll always let a player try his luck on a<BR>task where he'd need a perfect 12 to succeed.<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Other systems may be (and most are) more capricious than this, but<BR>&gt; &gt; that's irrelevant because MT is the system I use -- and I hardly<BR>&gt; &gt; think that accepting a 2.8% failure rate for an Expert proves I<BR>&gt; &gt; "prefer experts to be incompetent and nothing reliable"<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Find me any task that has an insignificant chance for a novice (with<BR>&gt; the same stats) to perform, and that an expert can perform reliably,<BR>&gt; and we'll talk.&nbsp; Such tasks are very common in the real world.<BR>&gt;<BR>My math skills aren't up to running the actual numbers (taking retries into<BR>account, that is), but it looks to me like the aforementioned Difficult (or<BR>Cautious Formidable) task fits this definition tolerably well -- the expert<BR>will fail 17% of the time, but all but 3% of the time will be allowed<BR>re-tries.&nbsp; The novice, OTOH, will fail 83% of the time, with no retries<BR>possible 58% of the time.&nbsp; This spread may not be big enough for your<BR>'moderately deterministic' tastes, but it certainly seems within a close<BR>enough margin that I can feel comfortable using it and not feel like I've<BR>thrown logic and realism completely out the window for the sake of Blind<BR>Chance.<BR><BR>I'm not saying that you should use the MT system, btw.&nbsp; It's still on the<BR>right of your Determinism spectrum.&nbsp; However, it's also pretty close to<BR>center -- a lot closer than most systems.&nbsp; That's why I like it, and why I'm<BR>not sure I understand your insistence on portraying it as totally random and<BR>capricious, and me, for using it, as someone who's only governing concerns<BR>are blind chance and stupid luck.<BR><BR>Trent<BR><BR>P.S.&nbsp;&nbsp; You can pick the above to pieces if you want to, but I'm not too<BR>likely to respond.&nbsp; I think I've stated my position about as well as I can<BR>and anything more will just devolve into the sort of 'tis/'tain't back and<BR>forth I really want to avoid (besides which, I'm leaving town in a couple<BR>days, and won't have time to keep up with a flame-war).<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 21:31:25 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Target-wise we periodically call the range cold and set out water jugs,<BR>&gt; bowling pins, and strings of balloons at 50yds and 100yds (that's ~48m &amp;<BR>&gt; 91.5m for you metric types ;).<BR><BR>No, that's 45.72 m and 91.44 m.<BR><BR>&gt; plywood silhouettes of a tank and a (no lie!) triceratops at 150yds as well.<BR><BR>I saw them breaking those up and burning them durning the range<BR>cleanup... :-(<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 21:50:14 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; I always liked 1.5L or 2L coke bottles filled with water. If you push<BR>&gt; them into the ground a few inches upside down and hit them a bit low<BR>&gt; the 'top' end of the bottle will often 'lift off' like a rocket.<BR>&gt; Sometimes they'll fly up 30-40 feet.<BR>&nbsp; <BR>On another list I brought up the matter of just how much pressure one<BR>of those bottles can hold (I wanted to use one as a portable source of<BR>compressed air).<BR><BR>Prelim tests show that they are good to 150 psi. We won't know how much<BR>farther until one of the folks interested in the idea gets around to<BR>rigging up a pump that can produce higher pressures *safely*.<BR><BR>But it occurs to me that you could make some *very* reactive "reactive<BR>targets" by putting the right amount of dry ice into a bottle just<BR>before filling it with water. <BR><BR>Get it right, and it'd be safe to handle, but go up impressively when<BR>struck by a bullet.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 21:44:55 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 4. So we can have Ditzie T-Shirts made with "The Jesse<BR>&gt;&gt; Degraff Monthly<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Fun Shoot" printed on then.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Actually, It occurs to me that we ought to have some T-shirts or even<BR>&gt;&gt; jackets done up:<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Famile Spofulam<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Heavy Weapons<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Testing Team<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; or some such.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; It would have to be<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Famile Spofulam<BR>&gt; Light Weapons<BR>&gt; Testing Team<BR><BR>&gt; As nothing at the Oregon Fun Shoot qualifies as a "Heavy Weapon" to<BR>&gt; Famile Spofulam.<BR><BR>True enough. And having folks see us wearing those jackets and firing<BR>the Barrett would cause a few raised eybrows. :-)<BR><BR>Of course, I'd *really* like to see Tod (or anybody else) finish the<BR>railgun.. &lt;eg&gt;<BR><BR>I think it'd qualify for the "suppressed weapon" section of the shoot.<BR>Zap, crack, *bang*! (the bang being the projectile hitting something<BR>solid) <BR><BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 00:11:35 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: World Builder<BR><BR>I downloaded World Builder Deluxe.&nbsp; Fantastic program.<BR><BR>But...I can't get the maps to print...does this program print maps or<BR>only text data?<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3450<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Friday, December 22 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3451<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Merry Christmas!<BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>RE: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: An incompetent expert (who's made of straw)<BR>RE: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR>re: Alienage (was: Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR>re: Need Aramanx stuff<BR>RE: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR>RE: Alienage (was: Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR>re: Film Cast<BR>Re: Low standards<BR>re: Who Won, Who Lost<BR>Heaven &amp; Earth Question<BR>re: Who Won, Who Lost<BR>Re: Heaven &amp; Earth Question<BR>RE: Heaven &amp; Earth Question<BR>RE: Who Won, Who Lost<BR>Semi-OT: New Honor Harrington story<BR>Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising<BR>Re: H&amp;E Question<BR>Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR>Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR>Re: Low standards<BR>Re: Film Cast<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 16:41:05 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Merry Christmas!<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>I'm off on leave, so Merry Christmas and a Happy New Millenium to all you<BR>lovable TMLer's out there!<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 17:34:18 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>Dominic Mooney wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; It would be good to know if the 100D limit is mean to be an<BR>&gt; approximation as I'm curious if a ship actually has to get with 100D<BR>&gt; of a black hole to precipitate out...<BR><BR>I'd like to know what sort of objects the 100D limit applies to.&nbsp; A<BR>protostellar nebula can be a good fraction of a light year across.&nbsp; If<BR>the 100-D limit applies to "massive objects bound by gravity", then it<BR>could prevent jump travel in a region tens of parsecs across.<BR><BR>I'm assuming "bound by gravity" to prevent things like dust nebulae<BR>preventing jump travel in regions tens of thousands of parsecs across.<BR><BR>My bet is on the 100D limit being an approximation for gravitational<BR>tidal stress warping spacetime too much for jump drives to function.<BR>If Earth's "100D" limit is at 1.3 million km distance, the threshold<BR>stress would be about 2x10^-13/s^2.<BR><BR>Since tidal stress varies with the inverse third power of distance,<BR>variations in density actually have little effect on the threshold<BR>distance.&nbsp; A halving of density would only affect the 100D limit by<BR>20% (i.e. 80D instead).&nbsp; For normal objects like stars, planets, and<BR>moons this means that a 100D approximation would be good enough for<BR>game purposes.<BR><BR>It's only when you get to more unusual objects like nebulae and black<BR>holes that the strict 100D theory starts to diverge from the tidal<BR>stress theory.<BR><BR><BR>One question: If pure 100D theory is canonical, does it apply to<BR>non-spherical objects?&nbsp; Would a tether 1000 km long prevent jump out<BR>to a distance of 100 000 km?&nbsp; What happens if you break a 10-km<BR>asteroid into nearby 100-metre chunks?&nbsp; Do the fragments still prevent<BR>jump out to 1000 km, or is it just the union of each chunk's 10 km<BR>limit?&nbsp; (I suspect these questions have no canonical answer)<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 22:38:51 -0800<BR>From: Jesse DeGraff &lt;jdegraff@pacbell.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>That's why I said "~" Leonard.&nbsp; I could have just as easily put the exact<BR>conversion but rounded to roughly the nearest 1/2m.&nbsp; Sheesh :)<BR><BR>Yes, those two were getting old.&nbsp; I've every hope that they'll make more for<BR>next year.<BR><BR>Jesse<BR><BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson<BR>&gt; Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 9:31 PM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground<BR>&gt; Forces))<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Target-wise we periodically call the range cold and set out water jugs,<BR>&gt; &gt; bowling pins, and strings of balloons at 50yds and 100yds (that's ~48m &amp;<BR>&gt; &gt; 91.5m for you metric types ;).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; No, that's 45.72 m and 91.44 m.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; plywood silhouettes of a tank and a (no lie!) triceratops at<BR>&gt; 150yds as well.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I saw them breaking those up and burning them durning the range<BR>&gt; cleanup... :-(<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>&gt; leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 17:56:02 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: An incompetent expert (who's made of straw)<BR><BR>Trent Smith wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; As for being larger-than-life, I don't mean consistently (which, in<BR>&gt; another post, I've pointed out that I dislike)<BR><BR>Yep, got that one.&nbsp; Sorry for the misinterpretation.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; If that means the character will also fail 1 or 2% of the time at<BR>&gt; something he wouldn't have expected to*,<BR><BR>(I still think it's often more like 10-20%)<BR><BR>&gt; I can't say that really bothers me.&nbsp; Apparently is does bother you.<BR>&gt; Oh well, we can't all agree on everything.<BR><BR>No, and it would probably be boring if we did :^)<BR><BR><BR>&gt; I'm not sure I understand your insistence on portraying it as<BR>&gt; totally random and capricious, and me, for using it, as someone<BR>&gt; who's only governing concerns are blind chance and stupid luck.<BR><BR>Not so much on any single task as on a succession of tasks.&nbsp; For any<BR>single task it is tolerable, even for me.&nbsp; It's the effect of<BR>randomness across multiple task instances that bugs me.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; I think I've stated my position about as well as I can and anything<BR>&gt; more will just devolve into the sort of 'tis/'tain't back and forth<BR>&gt; I really want to avoid (besides which, I'm leaving town in a couple<BR>&gt; days, and won't have time to keep up with a flame-war).<BR><BR>No problem.&nbsp; Hope your trip goes well.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 23:09:29 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: RE: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Mark Preston" &lt;mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: RE: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR>...<BR>&gt;In fact, the _only_ nation that I know of that tries to take credit<BR>&gt;for the whole effort is the Americans. Unfortunately, this sort of -<BR>&gt;shall we call it - "flexibility with the truth" is fairly typical of<BR>&gt;modern America. Consider popular opinions of Vietnam, films such as<BR>&gt;Braveheart, The Patriot and the one about the Enigma machine on a<BR>&gt;U-boat. Laugh? I would, if it wasn't so sad...<BR><BR>&nbsp; If the Sovs had had Hollywood then they wouldn't have needed to <BR>bother with explicit political indoctrination nearly so much :&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; FWIW, the 3I's best approach (given the number and likely <BR>differences amongst Hi-Pop worlds) is perhaps just benign <BR>neglect of the issue? Let the recruits come, and check to<BR>see what you're getting, while the nobility serves to supply<BR>the reliably socialized command personnel that you need.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &lt;Dulinor?&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; OK, every system has glitches :|<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Steven Hudson<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 00:02:46 -0800<BR>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: re: Alienage (was: Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR><BR>&gt;From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;I have temprorary custody of a set myself ;)&nbsp; And, in special honor<BR>&gt;of Legate, I'm watching them in French.&nbsp; (No, seriously... I have to<BR>&gt;take more language exams in the spring, and I hope I can learn to say<BR>&gt;things to my examiners like "this entire planet is highly toxic,"<BR>&gt;"eat this, you bastard," and "you're all gonna die -- the only<BR>&gt;question is how you want it" by then.)<BR><BR>Hudson:<BR>"Jeu fini!&nbsp; Jeu fini!"<BR><BR>"Je ne sais pas si tu te tiens au courant de ce qui se passe, mais nous<BR>sommes venus d'avoir recus un coup grand de pied a la gueule!"<BR><BR>Hicks:<BR>"Je dit, nous nukons le site de l'orbite.&nbsp; C'est la seule facon d'etre<BR>sure."<BR><BR>- --Glenn<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 00:02:48 -0800<BR>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: re: Need Aramanx stuff<BR><BR>&gt;From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;Anybody know of any web pages out there with (any type of) details on<BR>Aramanx?<BR><BR>I think one of the sample mercenary tickets in Book 4:&nbsp; Mercenary is for<BR>Aramanx.<BR><BR>- --Glenn<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 08:12:01 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;From: "Mark Preston" &lt;mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Subject: RE: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR>&gt; ...<BR>&gt; &gt;In fact, the _only_ nation that I know of that tries to take credit<BR>&gt; &gt;for the whole effort is the Americans. Unfortunately, this sort of -<BR>&gt; &gt;shall we call it - "flexibility with the truth" is fairly typical of<BR>&gt; &gt;modern America. Consider popular opinions of Vietnam, films such as<BR>&gt; &gt;Braveheart, The Patriot and the one about the Enigma machine on a<BR>&gt; &gt;U-boat. Laugh? I would, if it wasn't so sad...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; If the Sovs had had Hollywood then they wouldn't have needed to <BR>&gt; bother with explicit political indoctrination nearly so much :&gt;<BR><BR>I can see it now...Nikita Sergeyevich Mikhalkov in Bridge over the River<BR>Kwai ; Igor Mozzhukhin in U-571.&nbsp; :)<BR><BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 08:15:39 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Alienage (was: Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Glenn M. Goffin [mailto:gmgoffin@earthlink.net]<BR>&gt; Sent: 22 December 2000 08:03<BR>&gt; To: Traveller-Digest<BR>&gt; Subject: re: Alienage (was: Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;I have temprorary custody of a set myself ;)&nbsp; And, in special honor<BR>&gt; &gt;of Legate, I'm watching them in French.&nbsp; (No, seriously... I have to<BR>&gt; &gt;take more language exams in the spring, and I hope I can learn to say<BR>&gt; &gt;things to my examiners like "this entire planet is highly toxic,"<BR>&gt; &gt;"eat this, you bastard," and "you're all gonna die -- the only<BR>&gt; &gt;question is how you want it" by then.)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Hudson:<BR>&gt; "Jeu fini!&nbsp; Jeu fini!"<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "Je ne sais pas si tu te tiens au courant de ce qui se passe, <BR>&gt; mais nous<BR>&gt; sommes venus d'avoir recus un coup grand de pied a la gueule!"<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Hicks:<BR>&gt; "Je dit, nous nukons le site de l'orbite.&nbsp; C'est la seule facon d'etre<BR>&gt; sure."<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Ripley: "loignez d'elle, vous chienne!"<BR><BR>Well, kinda.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 00:18:20 -0800<BR>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: re: Film Cast<BR><BR>&gt;From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR><BR>Which film are we doing?&nbsp; I'm thinking of the Spinward Marches after the<BR>5FW.&nbsp; I'm trying to decide between Danny De Vito and Dennis Hopper for<BR>Norris circa 1111.&nbsp; Max von Sydow as Shterbifriashav.&nbsp; Jeanette Garofaolo<BR>(how does she spell that?) as Seldrian (how does she spell that?).&nbsp; John<BR>Malkovich as Santanocheev -- or maybe Marlon Brando.&nbsp; Hmm.<BR><BR>I don't think anyone will top Jose Ferrer in David Lynch's Dune as the<BR>Emperor.&nbsp; He won't work for Strephon, quite, but he was excellent as Shaddam<BR>IV.<BR><BR>- --Glenn<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 00:18:21 -0800<BR>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>&gt;From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;Where would Michelle Yeoh fit in the Traveller HK Action Opera? =)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;(And yes, while most people would recognize her only from that Bond film, I<BR>&gt;have fond remembrances of her in both Heroic Trio films and... ooooh, what<BR>&gt;was that one, she played a woman in a smal town but dressed as a boy.....<BR>&gt;Wing Fong?&nbsp; I'd better not try to guess the name, I'll mangle it horribly.<BR><BR>I saw her on Letterman or somewhere around the time of the Bond film, and<BR>she said that her first reaction on being asked if she were interested in<BR>doing a Bond film was, "Wow! a female James Bond! I'd love to do it!"&nbsp; and<BR>then her agent brought her down to earth.&nbsp; I want to see a James Bond film<BR>series where Sean Connery plays the aging James Bond, long since promoted to<BR>head of MI6, and Michelle Yeoh plays the brash young 007.<BR><BR>Ob Traveller ... um ... er ... what was your question again?<BR><BR>- --Glenn<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 00:18:23 -0800<BR>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: re: Who Won, Who Lost<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Daniel Phelps" &lt;phelpsd@gate.net&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;Nope sorry but you are wrong, not put salt in the wound at this late date,<BR>&gt;but at least very least the Finns know that they lost for the second time<BR>in<BR>&gt;the same generation against more or less the same foe.<BR><BR>In a contest between states as mismatched and Finland and the USSR,<BR>surviving a war with independence intact is itself a victory.&nbsp; That's<BR>probably how the Sword Worlds feel in 1111.<BR><BR>- --Glenn<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 02:29:31 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Heaven &amp; Earth Question<BR><BR>OK, I re-downloaded H&amp;E, and I got this one to work.<BR><BR>How the heck do you print the system and planet maps?&nbsp; I don't see a<BR>"print" function for anything but the data.<BR><BR>I'd like to print the maps out too!<BR><BR>Anybody use H&amp;E and know how to do this?<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 11:08:06 +0200 (EET)<BR>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;<BR>Subject: re: Who Won, Who Lost<BR><BR>On Fri, 22 Dec 2000, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;From: "Daniel Phelps" &lt;phelpsd@gate.net&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Nope sorry but you are wrong, not put salt in the wound at this late date,<BR>&gt; &gt;but at least very least the Finns know that they lost for the second time<BR>&gt; in<BR>&gt; &gt;the same generation against more or less the same foe.<BR>&gt; In a contest between states as mismatched and Finland and the USSR,<BR>&gt; surviving a war with independence intact is itself a victory.&nbsp; That's<BR>&gt; probably how the Sword Worlds feel in 1111.<BR><BR>Actually, we call it here a defensive victory. B-)<BR>Everybody knows we lost, twice in the WWII, but we did get quite good<BR>peace treaties. Of course we lost some land, but we had a lot of space for<BR>people required to move.<BR><BR>Also, the fact that we had to pay the USSR for the war (what is the right<BR>term? I don't know.) had the effect of boosting our economy and industry.<BR>Without them we wouldn't be as developed as we are.<BR><BR>There are still some people who would like Karelia back. Most people<BR>realise that there is nothing of value there, it would be very expensive<BR>to rebuild it after what the Soviets and Russians have done to it.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>+++++++++[&gt;+++++++++&lt;-]&gt;-.&lt;+++++[&gt;+++&lt;-]++&gt;++.&lt;++[&gt;++++&lt;-]+&gt;+.&lt;++[&gt;----<BR>&lt;-]&gt;-.&gt;+++[&gt;++++++++++&lt;-]++&gt;++pare@iki.fi&lt;+[&gt;++++&lt;-]&gt;+.-&gt;+[&gt;++++[&lt;&lt;---&gt;<BR>&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;.&gt;&gt;+++++++[&lt;++++++++++&gt;-]++++[&lt;+++++&gt;-]&lt;-.&gt;[-]&gt;+++[&gt;++[&lt;&lt;&lt;----&gt;&gt;<BR>&lt;&gt;&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;&lt;.+.&gt;[-]++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;.++.[-]&gt;[-]++++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;++.&gt;&gt;++[&gt;++[&gt;-&lt;-]&lt;--]<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 20:37:28 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Heaven &amp; Earth Question<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR>&gt; I'd like to print the maps out too!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Anybody use H&amp;E and know how to do this?<BR><BR>I can't use H&amp;E, but in general you can take screenshots, tidy them up<BR>in a paint program and print them.&nbsp; Handy if the program doesn't have<BR>a native print option.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 09:32:01 -0000<BR>From: Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Heaven &amp; Earth Question<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions<BR>&gt; [mailto:dreamer@brokersys.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 22 December 2000 08:30<BR>&gt; To: Traveller<BR>&gt; Subject: Heaven &amp; Earth Question<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; OK, I re-downloaded H&amp;E, and I got this one to work.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; How the heck do you print the system and planet maps?&nbsp; I don't see a<BR>&gt; "print" function for anything but the data.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I'd like to print the maps out too!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Anybody use H&amp;E and know how to do this?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Kenneth.<BR><BR>IIRC, the maps are saved as graphics files (either .gif or .jpg, can't<BR>recall which) in the appropriate H&amp;E folder on your disk. To print them<BR>you need to open them in a graphics capable program and print from<BR>there.<BR><BR>This may have changed in the more recent versions, but that's what I<BR>have to do.<BR><BR>HTH<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 10:00:10 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Who Won, Who Lost<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;Was Written:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Americans say that<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; they won the war, the Brits say they won the War, the<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; French say that France<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; was never invaded &amp; they won the War, so do the Russians,<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; the Germans, the<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Japanese, etc.&nbsp; Everyone who fought in WWII won the war<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; themselves.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Nope sorry but you are wrong, not put salt in the wound at <BR>&gt; this late date,<BR>&gt; but at least very least the Finns know that they lost for the <BR>&gt; second time in<BR>&gt; the same generation against more or less the same foe.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Sad to say, in war there are no winners, just those who lose less.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 21:59:42 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Semi-OT: New Honor Harrington story<BR><BR>I just discovered that the "sample "chapter" for "Changer of Worlds"<BR>(due out in March) is a *complete* (331k!) story. <BR><BR>It's the story of Honor's middie cruise. Among other things. :-) <BR><BR>It took me a couple hours to read. And I'm tempted to go back and<BR>re-read it...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 22:17:29 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Now, personally, I've been complaining about the opportuntities we're<BR>&gt; missing since the early 70's. We've frittered away so much time, so<BR>&gt; many resources...,&lt;sigh&gt;...the world could be running on solar power<BR>&gt; by now, we could have colonies in orbit and on the Moon, outposts on<BR>&gt; Mars, and be well on our way to the stars. You know, if we keep<BR>&gt; frittering away time we may stay mundanes forever.<BR><BR>The blame *starts* with Nixon. He's the one who started dismantling the<BR>Apollo program. <BR><BR>But there's plenty to go around.<BR><BR>A few other "lowlights" of the space program:<BR><BR>1 the budget cuts to the Shuttle program that forced them to drop the<BR>&nbsp; original plan to develop *liquid* fueled strap-on boosters. Which led<BR>&nbsp; to the eventual loss of the Challenger.<BR><BR>2 the further cuts that caused NASA to have to commit to the shuttle at<BR>&nbsp; the cost of cancelling both further production of large boosters such<BR>&nbsp; as the Saturn, and cancel the follow-ons that'd been planned.<BR><BR>3 the even *further* cuts that led to the Shuttle's first flight not<BR>&nbsp; occuring until several years ater it'd been planned.<BR><BR>4 the loss of skylab due to #2 &amp; #3 making it impossible to fly the<BR>&nbsp; planned mission to reboost it.<BR><BR>5 the decision that we should *not* commit to trying to put up a solar<BR>&nbsp; power satellite.<BR><BR>6 the decision to *not* fly the Shuttle after the Challenger accident,<BR>&nbsp; even after it was *known* to be the cold, and astyronauts were<BR>&nbsp; *volunteering* to fly the backed up missions as long as the launchs<BR>&nbsp; avoided the cold weather that'd caused the trouble. This cost us<BR>&nbsp; *years*.<BR><BR>7 the budget cuts that led to not testing the mirror for Hubble. Yes,<BR>&nbsp; we "fixed" the problem, but the images would be even better if the<BR>&nbsp; mirror had been ground properly (and the backup mirror *was* ground<BR>&nbsp; properly!)<BR><BR>8 the budget cuts that led to the end of the practice of launching<BR>&nbsp; probes in pairs, just in case something went wrong an one was lost in<BR>&nbsp; flight. I'll only mention that there are several Mars missions that<BR>&nbsp; would have been successful rather than a complete loss if this hadn't<BR>&nbsp; happened.<BR><BR>Just consider where we'd be now if these hadn't happened...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 22:34:17 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: H&amp;E Question<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; I just downloaded Heaven and Earth.&nbsp; You gotta have Internet Explorer to<BR>&gt; run the doggone thing?&nbsp; It won't work with Netscape Communicator?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I don't think I have room on my hard drive nor the patience to wait the<BR>&gt; hours it will take to download IE.<BR><BR>&gt; Hmmm.....<BR><BR>Go looking for "98lite" (I forget the website, but you can get there<BR>from links at http://www.pmaco.com). <BR><BR>It'll let you install Windows *without IE, but *with* the html support<BR>that many programs want.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 22:46:37 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; The flicker should normally not drop below 90%, it's designed to<BR>&gt;&gt; allow the BG ship to have _some_ idea of where they are, and to fire<BR>&gt;&gt; a big gun once in a while, not to actively maneurver and fight in.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; By my calculations, if uncertainty in position is the main thing<BR>&gt; preventing you from being hit (which seems to be the case in the<BR>&gt; Traveller combat systems), then flickering at 90% means you'll be hit<BR>&gt; 100 times more often for most beams.<BR><BR>Nope. Because you are *very* hard to spot while the globe is up.<BR>Basicly, you can only be spotted if you are *noticed* occulting<BR>something. <BR><BR>So every time the globe goes down, not only do you fire, but you also<BR>apply a vector in some odd direction. Then the globe goes back up.<BR>Which means that you have acquired a new vector. So you move accoding<BR>to that vector, but the other side hasn't had enough time to determine<BR>*what* that new vector is with any precision.<BR><BR>Worse, they can't track you with active sensors, because you aren't<BR>producing an echo. And most passive sensors can't pin down your<BR>position that well. <BR><BR>So you are harder to hit as long as you spend much more time with the<BR>globe on than off. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 22:52:28 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Since a target using a flickering black globe would be blinking on and<BR>&gt; off on your sensors, it should be easy to calculate the blink rate and<BR>&gt; timing and adjust your fire pattern/rate to either always hit the globe<BR>&gt; or pass through (Assuming at a given flicker rate the blinking on and<BR>&gt; off is rhythmic and regular.).<BR><BR>Unless the hardware *requires* this, only an idiot would run it that way.<BR><BR>Also, determining the position of the globe requires getting it to<BR>ocult something. Which means that you know that *part* of the globe is<BR>between you and that star/planet/whatever. But *which* part. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 22:05:39 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; On 12/21/00 at 10:10 AM,&nbsp; shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;In mail you write:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; No Walter Koenig has to do that, he plays head of PsiCorp so well in Bab5.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Who would have guessed that Chekov could do "bastard" so well?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;BTW, watching the Babylon5 re-runs on the SciFi channel, I'm very<BR>&gt;&gt;impressed by the way he can say innocent things, in an innocent<BR>&gt;&gt;way, yet somehow manage to make them anything *but* innocent, just<BR>&gt;&gt;because *he* is saying them. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Yeah, it was an absolute revelation to me.&nbsp; Koenig he reminds me a lot of <BR>&gt; Werner Klemper, when he wasn't playing Col. Klink. Klemper could play a <BR>&gt; *nasty* wolf in sheeps clothing really, really well, too.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;He'd make a *great* Tvarchedl(sp) officer.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; How about an IRIS operative? &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Nah, having him play a psi will stir up the fans more:-)<BR><BR>BTW, Koenig was in the (abysmal) SF show "The Starlost" as an alien. I<BR>vaguely recall him doing ok (it's *only* been 27 years!) which is more<BR>than can be said for many of the cast...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 23:02:17 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Film Cast<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Kenji types:<BR>&gt;&gt;I was going to suggest Quentin Tarrantino get a walk-on as Lt.<BR>&gt;&gt;Windhook, but the suggestion of Steven Segal is certainly better.<BR>&gt;&gt;Also, I'd like to see Chuck Norris cast as the Aslan ambassador who<BR>&gt;&gt;buys it.&nbsp; Either that or Archduke Brrk.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Hmmm....yes.&nbsp; Very little makeup work needed to fill out the body fur with <BR>&gt; Norris.<BR><BR>Why not have Chuck Norris *play* Norris. :-)<BR><BR>&gt; -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>&gt; http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>&gt; Born to be Wild. Sentenced to Sedation<BR>&gt; -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3451<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-zd04.mx.aol.com (rly-zd04.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.228]) by air-zd02.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:04:16 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-zd04.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:03:36 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id FAA41779;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Fri, 22 Dec 2000 05:57:55 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Fri, 22 Dec 2000 05:57:32 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id FAA41555<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Fri, 22 Dec 2000 05:57:31 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 05:57:31 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012221057.FAA41555@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3451<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Friday, December 22 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3452<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR>Re: Low standards<BR>Re: Nostalgia Week Continues (long, but _worth_ it!)<BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>Re: Reft sector X-boat link<BR>Re: Noble vs. military rank<BR>Re: Semi-OT: New Honor Harrington story<BR>RE: Low standards<BR>RE: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising<BR>Re: Who Won, Who Lost<BR>re: Alienage (was: Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR>[Fwd: Heaven and Earth Question]<BR>Re: Semi-OT: New Honor Harrington story<BR>RE: Alienage (was: Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR>Re: Alienage (was: Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR>RE: Alienage (was: Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR>RE: Alienage (was: Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR>re: Who Won, Who Lost<BR>Re: true words<BR>re: Who Won, Who Lost<BR>Re: Nostalgia Week Continues (long, but _worth_ it!)<BR>Re: Low standards<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 22:57:02 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; Hm...in CT a space of capacitors held 36 ep for 1 turn, or about 3 gigawatt<BR>&gt;&gt; hours.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Wow, that's an incredible amount.&nbsp; Bugger flickering the things at low<BR>&gt; percentages like 95% for a joke: turn on the black globe and coast to<BR>&gt; the target while your enemies' beams play ineffectually across the<BR>&gt; surface.&nbsp; Flicker the globe for a microsecond or so every few seconds<BR>&gt; to fire back.&nbsp; (i.e. switched on 99.99999% of the time)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Nukes going off would be a bit difficult to absorb, but they're<BR>&gt; disallowed, aren't they?<BR><BR>Just keep in mind what happens when some joker *does* manage to<BR>overload the storage. That's why I got called in to aid the roomie who<BR>was running a Traveller game. He had it happen to a ship. One that used<BR>"extra" capacitor to allow extra jumps and more powerful weapons. <BR><BR>Turned out that the ship going up triggered a chain reaction in both<BR>"fleets" (more like squadrons, actually). And *damaged* the planet they<BR>were orbiting...<BR><BR>&gt; (Ouch -- a near-C rock covered by a black globe would be even more<BR>&gt; impossible to stop than a near-C rock alone)<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; In other rulesets the energy storage is a lot lower, though.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I'm just thinking of the possibilities of such dense energy storage<BR>&gt; devices.&nbsp; 3 GW-hr is about 3 kilotons of TNT.&nbsp; Hmm -- even nukes are<BR>&gt; probably absorbable.&nbsp; Probably it's best that other rulesets have<BR>&gt; lower storage.<BR><BR>It was CT where they pulled that disaster off.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 22:11:04 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; What about the hivers? If Its the HKAT Traveller Movie we gotta have some <BR>&gt; Kung-fu Hivers in there somewhere....<BR><BR>No, Hivers are much better at playing the "engimatic wiseman" type. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 23:22:05 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Nostalgia Week Continues (long, but _worth_ it!)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Ravioli rail guns anyone?<BR><BR>Sure, why not. <BR><BR>Anybody feel like designing ravioli railguns for the various velocity<BR>domains listed?<BR><BR>I'm sure Ditzie is working on the .9 c and up versions...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 23:24:48 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; At 18:56 -0500 21/12/00,&nbsp; Timothy Little <BR>&gt; &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;It does if you plan it that way.&nbsp; In fact you can plan it so the<BR>&gt;&gt;earliest emergence is at the 100D limit, and all later emergences have<BR>&gt;&gt;the exit point inside that limit.&nbsp; Then it's guaranteed that you exit<BR>&gt;&gt;at the 100D limit, and have a velocity vector pre-aimed nearby (not<BR>&gt;&gt;directly pointed at the planet for traffic control reasons) so you<BR>&gt;&gt;only have to decelerate on arrival.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; It is guaranteed that you exit at 100D - Marc posted to this effect <BR>&gt; recently that ships automatically precipitate from jump at 100D <BR>&gt; limits. Nothing has been said about encountering a body in jump, or <BR>&gt; wether this would precipitate at &lt;168 hours.<BR><BR>Actually, he *did* post about that. <BR><BR>You exit jump at the point where the line between jump entry and<BR>(planned) jump exit crosses the 100 diameter limit of anything bigger<BR>than your ship. <BR><BR>He further stated that you do *not* exit early. <BR><BR>&gt; It would be good to know if the 100D limit is mean to be an <BR>&gt; approximation as I'm curious if a ship actually has to get with 100D <BR>&gt; of a black hole to precipitate out...<BR><BR>Mark hasn't said one way or the other. But given that the "standard<BR>planets" in Traveller (ie what you get if you use the basic system<BR>generation stuff from CT, MT, etc) all have the *same* density, it's<BR>easy to show that any effect that varies as the *cube root* of the mass<BR>will be at the same strengh at a given number of diameters from them.<BR><BR>It turns out that tidal forces (basicly, the *rate* at which the<BR>attraction due to gravity varies with distance) vary as the cube root<BR>of the distance.<BR><BR>Since tidal forces can also be thought of as how sharply spacetime is<BR>curved at a given point, this actually makes a strange sort of sense.<BR>It's likely easier to "warp" space to enter jump if you don't have to<BR>fight the existing curvature much. <BR><BR>So, for our purposes, this means you can use an equation like this:<BR><BR>T = G * M / r^3<BR><BR>T = "tidal force"<BR>G = 6.673e-11 N m^2/kg^2 (7e-11) -- Newton's Gravitational Constant "G"<BR>M = mass of object (in kilograms)<BR>r = distance from *center* of object (in meters)<BR><BR>For Earth, G*M = 3.986e14 m^3/s^2 (It's easier to measure G * M than to<BR>measure either seperately)<BR><BR>So, call it 4e14.<BR><BR>Earth's radius is 6371 km. Call that 6,400,000 meters.<BR><BR>The distances were are interested in are:<BR><BR>1/2 diam (surface, jump is fatal)&nbsp;&nbsp; = 6.4e6<BR>10 diam&nbsp; (jump possible, but risky) = 1.28e8<BR>100 diam (normal jump)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; = 1.28e9<BR><BR>So: <BR><BR>T = 4e14 / (6.4e6)^3&nbsp; = ~1.5e-6<BR>T = 4e14 / (1.28e8)^3 = ~1.9e-10<BR>T = 4e14 / (1.28e9)^3 = ~1.9e-13<BR><BR>So, call the values:<BR><BR>destroyed = more than 2e-6<BR>dangerous = more than 2e-10<BR>risky&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; = more than 2e-13<BR><BR>So, you can calculate backwards from the above numbers and the mass of<BR>an object to find out how far away you have to be for a given level of<BR>safety. <BR><BR>Again, this *isn't* official, but it's handy for those odd situations. <BR><BR>BTW, you'll note that this moves the safe limit much closer to low<BR>density bodies like gas giants and stars. On the other hand, high<BR>density bodies such nickel iron asteroids.... &lt;eg&gt;<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 23:56:07 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Reft sector X-boat link<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; And, if you do the math, they'll only hit the target thru sheer *luck*.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I did the math.&nbsp; The distance you want varies with speed of course,<BR>&gt; and speed varies with the rules for thrusters in YTU, but you can<BR>&gt; correct for jump error before you hit without much difficulty.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The slower you go, the more chance you have of being intercepted, of<BR>&gt; course.&nbsp; Given the rules for space combat, they probably won't be able<BR>&gt; to do much even at only 50 000 km/s.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Trajectory, not vector. Gravity *will* affect your course.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Sorry, I keep slipping into GR-think, where gravity doesn't affect<BR>&gt; vectors.&nbsp; Trajectory is probably more accurate anyway since they'll<BR>&gt; want you to do some sideways corrections no doubt.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; And they'll want to keep you away from other ships, and from various<BR>&gt;&gt; orbital installations.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Yes.&nbsp; Again, true no matter what speed you exit jump with.<BR><BR>Going to closer to the fission fuel processing facility could be<BR>unhealthy. After all, you only need to shield the direction the ships<BR>are *supposed* to approach from... :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 00:09:24 +1300<BR>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Noble vs. military rank<BR><BR>On 21 Dec 00, at 20:56, Thom Harris wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; A funny story concerning how much pull a CWO has follows. My last year in the<BR>&gt; Army I worked for a Captain. We had been given a special project and they had<BR>&gt; appointed a Major to head up the working group. He started giving us some crap<BR>&gt; day one. After a couple of days, my young Captain went to our Lieutenant<BR>&gt; Colonel and complained that this Major was making more waves than helping. The<BR>&gt; LTC looked at him and said "well if he gets too much out of line, your Chief<BR>&gt; will straighten his ass out." Needless to say, my young Captain came back to<BR>&gt; my desk and discussed it with me, I had a talk with the Major and he left us<BR>&gt; alone forever after. My Captain became a whole lot more humble after that.<BR><BR>In my experience (2Lt PWO 10/11 Hus), the most useful command that <BR>can ever be given by a junior officer is "Carry on Sergant"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 22:32:58 +1100<BR>From: Robert Houghton &lt;rhoughto@one.net.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Semi-OT: New Honor Harrington story<BR><BR>WHRER IS IT?<BR>arrgh...<BR><BR>Other rob<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I just discovered that the "sample "chapter" for "Changer of Worlds"<BR>&gt; (due out in March) is a *complete* (331k!) story.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; It's the story of Honor's middie cruise. Among other things. :-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; It took me a couple hours to read. And I'm tempted to go back and<BR>&gt; re-read it...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>&gt; leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 12:00:14 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Low standards<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; What about the hivers? If Its the HKAT Traveller Movie we <BR>&gt; gotta have some <BR>&gt; &gt; Kung-fu Hivers in there somewhere....<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; No, Hivers are much better at playing the "engimatic wiseman" type. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; -- <BR><BR><BR>As in the 'mysterious JTAS editor' ?<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 12:03:25 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: shadow@krypton.rain.com [mailto:shadow@krypton.rain.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 22 December 2000 06:17<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Now, personally, I've been complaining about the <BR>&gt; opportuntities we're<BR>&gt; &gt; missing since the early 70's. We've frittered away so much time, so<BR>&gt; &gt; many resources...,&lt;sigh&gt;...the world could be running on solar power<BR>&gt; &gt; by now, we could have colonies in orbit and on the Moon, outposts on<BR>&gt; &gt; Mars, and be well on our way to the stars. You know, if we keep<BR>&gt; &gt; frittering away time we may stay mundanes forever.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The blame *starts* with Nixon. He's the one who started <BR>&gt; dismantling the<BR>&gt; Apollo program. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; But there's plenty to go around.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; A few other "lowlights" of the space program:<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>&lt;snip bad calls on the part of NASA&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Just consider where we'd be now if these hadn't happened...<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Let's email Ken Hite and ask him to consider them!<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 07:47:37 -0500<BR>From: "Daniel Phelps" &lt;phelpsd@gate.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Who Won, Who Lost<BR><BR>Was written:<BR><BR>&gt;Also, the fact that we had to pay the USSR for the war (what is the right<BR>&gt;term? I don't know.)<BR><BR>War reparations<BR><BR>&gt;There are still some people who would like Karelia back. Most people<BR>&gt;realise that there is nothing of value there, it would be very expensive<BR>&gt;to rebuild it after what the Soviets and Russians have done to it.<BR><BR><BR>Just as the Japanese would like their northern islands back.&nbsp; As witness<BR>Palestine/Israel, the value of such lost lands is separate from its "price"<BR>as a piece of real estate but in the land's "worth" to the people involved.<BR><BR>Dan<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 08:08:04 -0500<BR>From: "Paul Drye" &lt;p_drye@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: re: Alienage (was: Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR><BR>&gt;"Je dit, nous nukons le site de l'orbite.&nbsp; C'est la seule facon d'etre<BR>&gt;sure."<BR><BR>"Nukons?" If you listen carefully, you can hear Moliere spinning in his <BR>grave.<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Paul "Je nukes, tu nukes, il nukes, elle nukes, nous nukons, vous nukez, ils <BR>Nukent, elles nukent" Drye<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 07:19:26 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: [Fwd: Heaven and Earth Question]<BR><BR>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.<BR>- --------------8A6B5012D57286CB967D598B<BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit<BR><BR>This is the response Stuart Ferris sent me when I asked how to print<BR>world maps.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>- --------------8A6B5012D57286CB967D598B<BR>Content-Type: message/rfc822<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit<BR>Content-Disposition: inline<BR><BR>Received: from mta2-svc.virgin.net (mta2-svc.virgin.net [194.168.54.143])<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by premier1.premier.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10850<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;; Sat, 19 Aug 2000 17:23:50 -0500 (CDT)<BR>Received: from maincomputer ([62.252.140.47]) by mta2-svc.virgin.net<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; id &lt;20000819215724.KOUZ8119.mta2-svc.virgin.net@maincomputer&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; for &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;; Sat, 19 Aug 2000 22:57:24 +0100<BR>Message-ID: &lt;000201c00a28$6ede35c0$2f8cfc3e@maincomputer&gt;<BR>From: "Stuart Ferris" &lt;stuart.ferris@virgin.net&gt;<BR>To: "John Groth" &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>References: &lt;399EF2F1.BFA242B4@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Heaven and Earth Question<BR>Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 22:47:45 +0100<BR>MIME-Version: 1.0<BR>Content-Type: text/plain;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit<BR>X-Priority: 3<BR>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal<BR>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400<BR>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400<BR>X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000<BR><BR>&gt;How do I print a world map generated by H&amp;E?&nbsp; Barring that, how do I<BR>&gt;save the world map image?<BR><BR>This is where the program is perhaps a little too intuitive.<BR><BR>Once a world/system is generated simply bring the world map up on the<BR>display and select 'Print Details' to print out the map.<BR><BR>As far as saving maps are concerned, they are automatically saved into the<BR>appropriate world/system folder when 'Save details' is selected/<BR><BR>Stuart Ferris<BR>stuart.ferris@virgin.net<BR>http://freespace.virgin.net/stuart.ferris/index.htm<BR><BR><BR><BR>- --------------8A6B5012D57286CB967D598B--<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 08:18:44 -0500<BR>From: "Paul Drye" &lt;p_drye@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Semi-OT: New Honor Harrington story<BR><BR>&gt;I just discovered that the "sample "chapter" for "Changer of Worlds"<BR>&gt;(due out in March) is a *complete* (331k!) story.<BR><BR>URL, Leonard?<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Paul Drye<BR><BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 13:26:35 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Alienage (was: Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Paul Drye [mailto:p_drye@hotmail.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 22 December 2000 13:08<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: re: Alienage (was: Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;"Je dit, nous nukons le site de l'orbite.&nbsp; C'est la seule <BR>&gt; facon d'etre<BR>&gt; &gt;sure."<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "Nukons?" If you listen carefully, you can hear Moliere <BR>&gt; spinning in his <BR>&gt; grave.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Is 'Nuke' an official verb in English?<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 07:40:09 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Alienage (was: Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR><BR>"Jones, Dean" wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; &gt; From: Paul Drye [mailto:p_drye@hotmail.com]<BR>&gt; &gt; Sent: 22 December 2000 13:08<BR>&gt; &gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; &gt; Subject: re: Alienage (was: Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;"Je dit, nous nukons le site de l'orbite.&nbsp; C'est la seule<BR>&gt; &gt; facon d'etre<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;sure."<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; "Nukons?" If you listen carefully, you can hear Moliere<BR>&gt; &gt; spinning in his<BR>&gt; &gt; grave.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Is 'Nuke' an official verb in English?<BR><BR>From www.yourdictionary.com:<BR><BR>Main Entry (1):&nbsp; nuke<BR>Pronunciation: 'nk, 'nyk<BR>Function: noun<BR>Etymology: by shortening &amp; alteration from nuclear<BR>Date: 1959<BR>1 : a nuclear weapon<BR>2 : a nuclear-powered electric generating station<BR><BR>Main Entry (2):&nbsp; nuke<BR>Function: transitive verb<BR>Date: 1967<BR>Inflected Form(s): nuked; nuk.ing<BR>1 : to attack or destroy with or as if with nuclear bombs<BR>2 : MICROWAVE<BR><BR>(This site refers to the Merriam-Webster Collegiate Dictionary)<BR><BR>http://www.yourdictionary.com/<BR><BR>- -- <BR>AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 08:38:44 -0500<BR>From: "Paul Drye" &lt;p_drye@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Alienage (was: Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR><BR>&gt;Is 'Nuke' an official verb in English?<BR><BR>For it to be official, we'd need some actual officials in charge of the <BR>matter first...and as has been pointed out repeatedly recently, the <BR>US/Canada/Australia isn't France....<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Paul Drye<BR><BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 13:47:51 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Alienage (was: Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR><BR>&lt;\cultural imperialism&gt;<BR><BR>Perhaps we had better email the Queen. As all civilised countries know, only<BR>the Queen's English counts as the correct way in which one should speak.<BR>Buckingham Palace should be able to settle the matter in a satisfactory<BR>manner.<BR><BR>&lt;/cultural imperialism&gt;<BR><BR>Please note that your average brit only gets all royalist when discussing<BR>matters of nationality and culture. Most of us don't give two hoots either<BR>way :) . As always, YMMV.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Paul Drye [mailto:p_drye@hotmail.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 22 December 2000 13:39<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Alienage (was: Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;Is 'Nuke' an official verb in English?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; For it to be official, we'd need some actual officials in <BR>&gt; charge of the <BR>&gt; matter first...and as has been pointed out repeatedly recently, the <BR>&gt; US/Canada/Australia isn't France....<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Cheers,<BR>&gt; Paul Drye<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ______________________________________________________________<BR>&gt; ___________<BR>&gt; Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at <BR>http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:11:33 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: re: Who Won, Who Lost<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: re: Who Won, Who Lost<BR>...<BR>&gt;Actually, we call it here a defensive victory. B-)<BR><BR>&nbsp; Fair enough, given some of the alternatives... i.e., possible direct<BR>(re)-integration into the Russian Empire :(<BR><BR>&gt;Also, the fact that we had to pay the USSR for the war (what is the right<BR>&gt;term? I don't know.) had the effect of boosting our economy and industry.<BR>&gt;Without them we wouldn't be as developed as we are.<BR><BR>&nbsp; "reparations" - a concpet that's largely gone out the windows these<BR>days, but then, wars of conquest are also pretty much against the<BR>rules, too - the Japanese lost their last good chance :&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Steven Hudson<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:13:33 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: true words<BR><BR>&gt;From: Tod Glenn &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: true words<BR>...<BR>&gt;Strangely, US political boundries often have nothing to do with culture,<BR>&gt;attitude, etc.&nbsp; Many think that the Oregon/Washington should have been an<BR>&gt;east-west split along the cascades (wet/dry siders).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;ObTrav.&nbsp; None, sorry.<BR><BR>&nbsp; ?? Doesn't 3I astrographic practice pretty much guarantee some <BR>very strange administrative boundaries?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 03:32:07 +1300<BR>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: re: Who Won, Who Lost<BR><BR>On 22 Dec 00, at 6:11, Steven Hudson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Subject: re: Who Won, Who Lost<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;Actually, we call it here a defensive victory. B-)<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Fair enough, given some of the alternatives... i.e., possible direct<BR>&gt; (re)-integration into the Russian Empire :(<BR><BR>Russo-Finnish Wars were an odd beast. The demands that sparked it all <BR>off were, on the face of it, quite reasonable (minor territorial adjustments to <BR>strengthen the defences of Lenningrad in return for concessions elsewhere <BR>on the border). Certainly better than the "deal" the soviets handed out the <BR>the other Baltic states; and both sides were negotiating for awhile. It <BR>probably was just another Stalin landgrab for Finland, but it was an <BR>unusually subtle one. Plus even in 44 when the war ended, the Russians <BR>didn't seem to want to undermine the Finnish government and replace it <BR>with a satelite like they did with the rest of Eastern Europe.<BR><BR>One is left with the feeling that the Soviets didn't think it worth the effort it <BR>would have required to absorb Finland.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 09:28:00 -0500<BR>From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Nostalgia Week Continues (long, but _worth_ it!)<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 21:28:02 -0600<BR>&gt;From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Nostalgia Week Continues (long, but _worth_ it!)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Over the past couple of days, I've reposted material from the TML's<BR>&gt;illustrious (recent) past.&nbsp; I have mentioned (and reposted) discussions<BR>&gt;ranging from Hiver Kung-Fu Theater to the Son of Santanocheev.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;hiver handwave&gt; Trivial, compared to what I'm about to repost. &lt;/hiver<BR>&gt;handwave&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;In December of 1998, a few months after I joined the TML, a post<BR>&gt;appeared that, IMHO, sums up the glory that the TML has known.&nbsp; Sadly,<BR>&gt;my archive of this post rests on a computer that is no longer<BR>&gt;functioning.&nbsp; I mentioned this thread a short time ago.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Fortunately, the TML is a truly global, truly sharing organization.&nbsp; One<BR>&gt;of our members heard my plea, and forwarded the original Ravioli Rail<BR>&gt;Gun post which I repost here tonight.&nbsp; My thanks to this individual (I<BR>&gt;refrain from mentioning this person's name for possible privacy<BR>&gt;reasons).&nbsp; You know who you are; feel free to let the TML know that it<BR>&gt;is by your grace that our newer members can now view this epochal post.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;May we all learn and profit from this example.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;**begin repost [original post: 30 Dec 1998]**<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;- ------------------------------<BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>LOL! Thank you for sharing this!<BR><BR>Verily, near-C-rats (Ravioli, Tomato, Precooked) are something to fear.... =)<BR><BR>Cheers<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 09:40:45 -0500<BR>From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 00:18:21 -0800<BR>&gt;From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Low standards<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Where would Michelle Yeoh fit in the Traveller HK Action Opera? =)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;(And yes, while most people would recognize her only from that Bond film, I<BR>&gt; &gt;have fond remembrances of her in both Heroic Trio films and... ooooh, what<BR>&gt; &gt;was that one, she played a woman in a smal town but dressed as a boy.....<BR>&gt; &gt;Wing Fong?&nbsp; I'd better not try to guess the name, I'll mangle it horribly.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I saw her on Letterman or somewhere around the time of the Bond film, and<BR>&gt;she said that her first reaction on being asked if she were interested in<BR>&gt;doing a Bond film was, "Wow! a female James Bond! I'd love to do it!"&nbsp; and<BR>&gt;then her agent brought her down to earth.&nbsp; I want to see a James Bond film<BR>&gt;series where Sean Connery plays the aging James Bond, long since promoted to<BR>&gt;head of MI6, and Michelle Yeoh plays the brash young 007.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Ob Traveller ... um ... er ... what was your question again?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;- --Glenn<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;------------------------------<BR><BR>Oh, now THAT would be something to see!&nbsp; I think I'd actually go and see it <BR>at an evening showing (i.e. full price rather than matinee.) =)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3452<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Friday, December 22 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3453<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Three Empires Down [FILK]<BR>Walter Koenig (RE: Low standards)<BR>re: Who Won, Who Lost<BR>RE: Walter Koenig (RE: Low standards)<BR>RE: Walter Koenig (RE: Low standards)<BR>Re: ACQ was RE: BITS adventures...<BR>Re: Nostalgia Week Continues (long, but _worth_ it!)<BR>RE: Walter Koenig (RE: Low standards)<BR>Pressurized Pop Bottles<BR>The Dweaded Piwacy Thwead<BR>Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: GroundForces))<BR>Children of DUNE<BR>Re: [Fwd: Heaven and Earth Question]<BR>Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR>Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR>Re: Nostalgia Week Continues (long, but _worth_ it!)<BR>Re: Noble vs. military rank<BR>Re: Trans-Atlantic Invasion<BR>Re: Low standards<BR>Re: Low standards<BR>Re: Low standards<BR>Re: Film Cast<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 09:51:03 -0500<BR>From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Three Empires Down [FILK]<BR><BR>Let's see if we can provide an ObTrav, between Michelle Yeoh as Seldrian, <BR>Hiver kung fu, and ravioli radiation...<BR><BR>I know!&nbsp; A filk!&nbsp; To the tune of 'Kryptonite' by Three Doors Down:<BR><BR>No Long Night<BR>== ==== =====<BR><BR>I took a walk around my realm to ease my troubled mind<BR>I left my clone sitting way back at the throne behind<BR>I saw the Wave there but not the Illelish Duke<BR>I fear there's nothing I can do.<BR>Yeah....<BR><BR>I saw the Wave there but not the Ilelish Duke.<BR>For all I knew I had to include Lucan too.<BR>I really don't mind, what happens now and then<BR>As long as he don't reign there in the end.<BR><BR>If I get shot down<BR>then will you still call me "ol' Strephon?"<BR>If I'm alive and well then will you be there, calling me clone?<BR>I'll keep Empire alive with my merely human might<BR>No Long Night<BR><BR>You call me strong, you call me weak<BR>But still these secrets I will keep<BR>I took for granted all the clones I had all around<BR>We've stumbled some, Rebellion's begun<BR>If not for me we'd still have the Sun.<BR>I want to pick you up, put you back on solid ground.<BR><BR>If I get shot down<BR>then will you still call me "ol' Strephon?"<BR>If I'm alive and well then will you be there, calling me clone?<BR>I'll keep Empire alive with my merely human might<BR>No Long Night<BR>YEAAAAAH!<BR><BR>&lt;repeat chorus&gt;<BR><BR>====<BR>- -30-<BR><BR><BR>Please, lemmie know if these are getting too silly. =)<BR><BR>Cheers<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 08:58:10 -0600<BR>From: "Smart, David J (David)" &lt;dasmart@avaya.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Walter Koenig (RE: Low standards)<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson posted:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;Who would have guessed that Chekov could do "bastard" so well?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;BTW, watching the Babylon5 re-runs on the SciFi channel, I'm very<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;impressed by the way he can say innocent things, in an innocent<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;way, yet somehow manage to make them anything *but* innocent, just<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;because *he* is saying them. <BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Yeah, it was an absolute revelation to me.&nbsp; Koenig he <BR>&gt; reminds me a lot of <BR>&gt; &gt; Werner Klemper, when he wasn't playing Col. Klink. Klemper <BR>&gt; could play a <BR>&gt; &gt; *nasty* wolf in sheeps clothing really, really well, too.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;He'd make a *great* Tvarchedl(sp) officer.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; How about an IRIS operative? &lt;g&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Nah, having him play a psi will stir up the fans more:-)<BR><BR>No kidding! My wife and I watch the current B5 reruns more<BR>for the special effects than the acting. We saw this<BR>week's episode in which Bester(?) (i.e. Koenig) appeared to<BR>get B5 personnel to rescue a shipload of psis from the<BR>Shadows.<BR><BR>Half way through the show, I was wondering why Ivanova<BR>didn't just put a few rounds into his head. At that point,<BR>I realized Koenig was not longer "Chekov" to me AND was<BR>a pretty darn good "thug" actor. I'm now looking forward to<BR>the other episodes for plot developments.<BR><BR>He's come a long way from being an Ensign wearing a bad wig.<BR><BR>David<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 07:10:32 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: re: Who Won, Who Lost<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: re: Who Won, Who Lost<BR>...<BR>&gt;unusually subtle one. Plus even in 44 when the war ended, the Russians <BR>&gt;didn't seem to want to undermine the Finnish government and replace it <BR>&gt;with a satelite like they did with the rest of Eastern Europe.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;One is left with the feeling that the Soviets didn't think it worth the<BR>effort it <BR>&gt;would have required to absorb Finland.<BR><BR>&nbsp; I wouldn't say prescient, but probably correct? :&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 15:11:14 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Walter Koenig (RE: Low standards)<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Smart, David J (David) [mailto:dasmart@avaya.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 22 December 2000 14:58<BR>&gt; To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>&gt; Subject: Walter Koenig (RE: Low standards)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson posted:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;Who would have guessed that Chekov could do "bastard" so well?<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;BTW, watching the Babylon5 re-runs on the SciFi channel, I'm very<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;impressed by the way he can say innocent things, in an innocent<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;way, yet somehow manage to make them anything *but* innocent, just<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;because *he* is saying them. <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Yeah, it was an absolute revelation to me.&nbsp; Koenig he <BR>&gt; &gt; reminds me a lot of <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Werner Klemper, when he wasn't playing Col. Klink. Klemper <BR>&gt; &gt; could play a <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; *nasty* wolf in sheeps clothing really, really well, too.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;He'd make a *great* Tvarchedl(sp) officer.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; How about an IRIS operative? &lt;g&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Nah, having him play a psi will stir up the fans more:-)<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>I'm not shure kownig has the staure to play a Tavarchedl officer.<BR>In that spirit, may I offer this line for the script:<BR><BR>'Aren't you kinda short for a Zhodani?' :)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR><BR>&gt; No kidding! My wife and I watch the current B5 reruns more<BR>&gt; for the special effects than the acting. We saw this<BR>&gt; week's episode in which Bester(?) (i.e. Koenig) appeared to<BR>&gt; get B5 personnel to rescue a shipload of psis from the<BR>&gt; Shadows.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>I believe the B5 effects were all created using an app called Video Toast.<BR>Can Anyone confirm?<BR><BR>&gt; Half way through the show, I was wondering why Ivanova<BR>&gt; didn't just put a few rounds into his head. At that point,<BR>&gt; I realized Koenig was not longer "Chekov" to me AND was<BR>&gt; a pretty darn good "thug" actor. I'm now looking forward to<BR>&gt; the other episodes for plot developments.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; He's come a long way from being an Ensign wearing a bad wig.<BR><BR>Totally. Scifi UK has just started reruns of season 5. I'm staying in!<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 11:03:17 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: "John P. Raynor" &lt;john.raynor@yale.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Walter Koenig (RE: Low standards)<BR><BR>On Fri, 22 Dec 2000, Jones, Dean wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I'm not shure kownig has the staure to play a Tavarchedl officer.<BR>&gt; In that spirit, may I offer this line for the script:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; 'Aren't you kinda short for a Zhodani?' :)<BR><BR>Yes, but (a) not all citizens of the Consulate are of Zhodani descent<BR>and (b) converts are often the most zealous believers.&nbsp; How about a<BR>loyal Consulate citizen from one of those half-assimilated, ex-Imperial<BR>worlds in the Chronor subsector (an Intendant, perhaps, born to prole<BR>parents).<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; - J. Raynor<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 07:48:46<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: ACQ was RE: BITS adventures...<BR><BR>At 02:14 PM 12/22/2000 +1100, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;And poor Doug loses another 4d6 SAN....<BR><BR>That stat has reached into the negative numbers and has started digging..<BR><BR>For example, (and there is an ObTrav at the end) consider the following<BR>situation which I encountered while handling "Where's My&nbsp; Van?" calls this<BR>morning.<BR><BR>SuperShuttle does *not* service the People's Republic of Berkeley.<BR>Evidently, this person called us and asked for a ride to SFO from her home<BR>in the PRB.&nbsp; When told it was a $97 charter (which we couldn't have taken<BR>anyway), she told the reservations agent to use the address of a friend in<BR>San Francisco, and she'd just spend the night there.&nbsp; <BR><BR>This is a common practise for people who live outside our service areas.<BR><BR>Now the fun begins:&nbsp; When asked for the phone number, the guest gives the<BR>number she was calling from in Berkeley.&nbsp; Next, the res agent didn't change<BR>the reservation from being a charter to being a normal, share ride pick up.<BR>One thing we are very leery of is a charter with only one person listed.<BR>Those are either mistakes or somebody travelling with several hundreds<BR>pounds of luggage.&nbsp; <BR><BR>So my manager calls the guest about an hour before the due time to confirm<BR>that this is indeed a charter.&nbsp; She's calls the *Berkeley* number we had<BR>been given, and of course wakes somebody up.&nbsp; This person mumbles that the<BR>guest had "left the night before", and hangs up.&nbsp; Our manager, assuming<BR>that the guest is gone, cancels the reservation.<BR><BR>Then the guest calls, wondering where her van is.&nbsp; Guess who gets to take<BR>the call?&nbsp; :P<BR><BR>Two small errors here, the failure of the guest to give us a phone number<BR>where she could be reached on the morning of the trip, and the res agent's<BR>failure to change the run status, caused this woman to probably miss her<BR>flight, and I was caught in the middle.<BR><BR>ObTrav:&nbsp; Not every adventure has to start with the spotlight on the PCs.<BR>Little events can combine to put the characters in the wrong place at the<BR>wrong time.&nbsp; A simple misreading of a cargo label, a clerk who signs off a<BR>whole stack of customs forms without reading them because he *really* needs<BR>to go to the fresher... the devil is in the details.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>"All right, all right - if it'll make you happy,<BR>I'll overthrow society." -Frye, _Futurama_<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 08:01:05<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Nostalgia Week Continues (long, but _worth_ it!)<BR><BR>At 09:28 PM 12/21/2000 -0600, John wrote:<BR>&gt;Over the past couple of days, I've reposted material from the TML's<BR>&gt;illustrious (recent) past.&nbsp; I have mentioned (and reposted) discussions<BR>&gt;ranging from Hiver Kung-Fu Theater to the Son of Santanocheev.<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>Ghudamnit!!!&nbsp; You *knew* what I was going to be eating this morning when<BR>you posted this, didn't you?&nbsp; Admit it!&nbsp; Now I have to clean tomato sauce<BR>and bits of pasta off the monitor.<BR><BR>You owe me and Chef Boy-ar-dee an explantion, Sergeant...<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 16:10:09 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Walter Koenig (RE: Low standards)<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: John P. Raynor [mailto:john.raynor@yale.edu]<BR>&gt; Sent: 22 December 2000 16:03<BR>&gt; To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Walter Koenig (RE: Low standards)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; On Fri, 22 Dec 2000, Jones, Dean wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; I'm not shure kownig has the staure to play a Tavarchedl officer.<BR>&gt; &gt; In that spirit, may I offer this line for the script:<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; 'Aren't you kinda short for a Zhodani?' :)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Yes, but (a) not all citizens of the Consulate are of Zhodani descent<BR>&gt; and (b) converts are often the most zealous believers.&nbsp; How about a<BR>&gt; loyal Consulate citizen from one of those half-assimilated, <BR>&gt; ex-Imperial<BR>&gt; worlds in the Chronor subsector (an Intendant, perhaps, born to prole<BR>&gt; parents).<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; - <BR><BR><BR>Good lord, was I drunk when I wrote those things above? My spelling was<BR>appalling!<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 08:44:26 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: AuricTech Shipyards &lt;aurictech@esweeet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Pressurized Pop Bottles<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 21:50:14 PST<BR>&gt;From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;In mail you write:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; I always liked 1.5L or 2L coke bottles filled with water. If you push<BR>&gt;&gt; them into the ground a few inches upside down and hit them a bit low<BR>&gt;&gt; the 'top' end of the bottle will often 'lift off' like a rocket.<BR>&gt;&gt; Sometimes they'll fly up 30-40 feet.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;On another list I brought up the matter of just how much pressure one<BR>&gt;of those bottles can hold (I wanted to use one as a portable source of<BR>&gt;compressed air).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Prelim tests show that they are good to 150 psi. We won't know how much<BR>&gt;farther until one of the folks interested in the idea gets around to<BR>&gt;rigging up a pump that can produce higher pressures *safely*.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;But it occurs to me that you could make some *very* reactive "reactive<BR>&gt;targets" by putting the right amount of dry ice into a bottle just<BR>&gt;before filling it with water. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Get it right, and it'd be safe to handle, but go up impressively when<BR>&gt;struck by a bullet.<BR><BR>Here's another solution (pun intended), using ordinary household materials:<BR><BR>Vinegar is a .67 M solution of acetic acid.&nbsp; If we pour one liter of vinegar into a 2-liter bottle, we have .67 moles of acetic acid.<BR><BR>If we then add .4 moles (33.6 grams) of baking soda (sodium bicarbonate), we get the following reaction:<BR><BR>NaHCO3 (s) + HC2H3O2 (aq) -&gt; NaC2H3O2 (aq) + H2O (l) + CO2 (g)<BR><BR>Assuming this reaction goes to completion, we have generated .4 moles of CO2 gas, or approximately 9 liters at STP.&nbsp; When the one liter of air that was left in the 2-liter bottle is included, we have 10 liters of gas within a 1-liter volume.&nbsp; This should give us approximately 140 psi within the bottle, which is well within the proven 150 psi capacity of such bottles.<BR><BR>(I _knew_ that I could find a use for CHEM 101!)<BR><BR>==<BR>AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/colverber/travler.html<BR><BR>_____________________________________________________________<BR>Free eSweeet Mail - http://www.esweeet.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 12:11:37 EST<BR>From: TOCoons@cs.com<BR>Subject: The Dweaded Piwacy Thwead<BR><BR>Not really; its just that I have a question that AFAIK hasn't been done to <BR>death.<BR><BR>First of all, to lay the ground rules, MTU is not the mature 3I and most of <BR>the arguments against career piracy don't apply. Few worlds have SDBs and the <BR>Navy hasn't yet learned that Cleon won't tolerate either piracy or Senior <BR>naval officers who will.&nbsp; Communications are poor and response times are <BR>slow; there are plenty of places for pirates to hide, and they have little <BR>trouble either repairing damage or selling their stuff. (I also noted <BR>recently that some of the notorious pirates of the 18th century or so had <BR>very short careers.)<BR><BR>I expect that the major routes with their 10,000+ superfreighters are still <BR>fairly safe, but anything less is substantially riskier.&nbsp; What kind of losses <BR>could a businessman tolerate before giving up the Intestellar trading career <BR>in favor of something safe, like dodging bullets on a shooting range?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 11:18:02 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; I always liked 1.5L or 2L coke bottles filled with water. If you push<BR>&gt; &gt; them into the ground a few inches upside down and hit them a bit low<BR>&gt; &gt; the 'top' end of the bottle will often 'lift off' like a rocket.<BR>&gt; &gt; Sometimes they'll fly up 30-40 feet.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; On another list I brought up the matter of just how much pressure one<BR>&gt; of those bottles can hold (I wanted to use one as a portable source of<BR>&gt; compressed air).<BR><BR>Steve Ciarcia did some tests on this in an early issue of Circuit Cellar<BR>Ink. I have it buried somehere in my office at home...I'll try and see<BR>if I can find it.<BR><BR>This would make a good target device...this was part of a two-parter<BR>about constructing a super bottle rocket launcher.<BR><BR>Do not get a bunch of IBM engineers together on a Saturday with steaks<BR>beer and fully equipped electonics and machine shop ;-)<BR><BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 11:20:30 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: GroundForces))<BR><BR>Do you still have the signs "Welcome to Oregon, now go home!" up? Or was<BR>that Washington?<BR><BR>Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I'm still trying to figure out what kind of people Oregon wants, or who is a<BR>&gt; typical Oregonian.&nbsp; We have ultra conservatives, anarchists, dead-head<BR>&gt; twirlers, a huge gay and lesbian population, hippie communes that have<BR>&gt; survived from the 60s, all in a relatively cordial blend.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 12:26:59 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Children of DUNE<BR><BR>I cannot put this friggin' series down!&nbsp; When I have to, I cannot wait<BR>to get back and soak up some more DUNE-ology.<BR><BR>And the books just keep getting better and better.&nbsp; I'm only on page 36<BR>of Children, and already a lot has been made--and there have been<BR>revelations and portents.<BR><BR>The foreshadowing is thick and my expectations are high.<BR><BR>Ever read a single line in a book that speaks so much about a story?&nbsp; I<BR>just had that experience.&nbsp; Leto is 9 years old, and he's starting to<BR>realize that he is something different than what his father was.&nbsp; And<BR>something he says really (for me) sums up the entire story in DUNE<BR>Messiah.<BR><BR>Leto says:<BR><BR>"I don't like the things I know I'll do," he said, "For the first time<BR>in my life I understand my father."<BR><BR><BR>If you've read DUNE Messiah, you'll understand the volumes that one line<BR>speaks about that book.<BR><BR>Amazing series.&nbsp; Simply amazing.<BR><BR>(And has got me in SUCH a Traveller mood!&nbsp; I've got to get my old<BR>campaign up and running--epic, intrigue, political maneuvering, and an<BR>empire on the brink of war!)<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 12:28:48 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: [Fwd: Heaven and Earth Question]<BR><BR>John Groth wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; This is the response Stuart Ferris sent me when I asked how to print<BR>&gt; world maps.<BR><BR>&gt; This is where the program is perhaps a little too intuitive.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Once a world/system is generated simply bring the world map up on the<BR>&gt; display and select 'Print Details' to print out the map.<BR><BR>I hit the "print details" button, and I received text planet details--but no<BR>maps.<BR><BR>I'll e-mail Stuart directly to see if I can figure this out.<BR><BR>Thanks for the help, though!<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 10:48:48 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson writes:<BR><BR>&gt; Nope. Because you are *very* hard to spot while the globe is up.<BR>&gt; Basicly, you can only be spotted if you are *noticed* occulting<BR>&gt; something.<BR><BR><BR>Which relates to flickering black globes how?&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; So every time the globe goes down, not only do you fire, but you also<BR>&gt; apply a vector in some odd direction. Then the globe goes back up.<BR>&gt; Which means that you have acquired a new vector. So you move accoding<BR>&gt; to that vector, but the other side hasn't had enough time to determine<BR>&gt; *what* that new vector is with any precision.<BR><BR>So your idea is that every ten seconds you drop the globe, manuever, fire, and<BR>raise the globe again?&nbsp; Assuming people can't tell from your drives what<BR>direction you've accelerated in, I guess that's practical, but at those ranges<BR>no-one can hit anything anyway.<BR><BR>Also, occultation should be easier to spot if you know exactly where to look.<BR>With the quality of sensors involved, detectable occultation should happen<BR>often enough.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Worse, they can't track you with active sensors, because you aren't<BR>&gt; producing an echo. And most passive sensors can't pin down your<BR>&gt; position that well. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; So you are harder to hit as long as you spend much more time with the<BR>&gt; globe on than off. <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 11:14:36 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR><BR>How are you going to fire without first making a sensor contact?&nbsp; So<BR>this whole drop globe for a few seconds, fire and maneuver thingy is<BR>impractical if you think about it.<BR><BR>=====<BR>Gerry Harris<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.<BR>http://shopping.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 13:27:57 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Nostalgia Week Continues (long, but _worth_ it!)<BR><BR>"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; At 09:28 PM 12/21/2000 -0600, John wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;Over the past couple of days, I've reposted material from the TML's<BR>&gt; &gt;illustrious (recent) past.&nbsp; I have mentioned (and reposted) discussions<BR>&gt; &gt;ranging from Hiver Kung-Fu Theater to the Son of Santanocheev.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Ghudamnit!!!&nbsp; You *knew* what I was going to be eating this morning when<BR>&gt; you posted this, didn't you?&nbsp; Admit it!&nbsp; Now I have to clean tomato sauce<BR>&gt; and bits of pasta off the monitor.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; You owe me and Chef Boy-ar-dee an explantion, Sergeant...<BR><BR>"The Great Oz sees all and knows all!"&nbsp; ;-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 14:29:28 -0500<BR>From: knightsky@juno.com<BR>Subject: Re: Noble vs. military rank<BR><BR>On Thu, 21 Dec 2000 00:23:27 -0500 Kenji Schwarz<BR>&lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt; writes:<BR>&gt; At 7:39 PM -0500 12/20/00, knightsky@juno.com wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;I have to confess, I've never seen the 4th film, because that would<BR>&gt; &gt;involve admitting that there *was* a 3rd film, and I'm not ready to <BR>&gt; do<BR>&gt; &gt;that just yet.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I strongly encourage you to see it, if for no other reason than that <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; it will put the third into better perspective, and a more flattering <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; light.&nbsp; While A:4 had some good elements or hooks, not one was <BR>&gt; handled well, nor does it seem much attempt was made to do so. <BR>&gt; Coming after A3, which was *extremely* dark and serious, its <BR>&gt; cartoonish aspects were thrown into particularly sharp relief, <BR>&gt; unfortunately; if it had followed after A2, which was fairly <BR>&gt; light-spirited and gung-ho, it wouldn't have been such an unpleasant <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; and abrupt 'ending' for the series.&nbsp; And for all the complaints <BR>&gt; about <BR>&gt; the characters in A3, holy crap, they're deep and profound compared <BR>&gt; to the Saturday morning anime wankbots that stalk through A4. <BR>&gt; Seriously, after seeing A4, you'll likely come back to A3 and find <BR>&gt; in <BR>&gt; it the sense of closure it meant to provide all along.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; On the bright side, A4 plays a lot like a lot of Traveller gaming <BR>&gt; episodes, I'll bet. Well, sure, there's not all *that* much <BR>&gt; gunfighting, but many a baddie is done to death creatively, one of <BR>&gt; the PCs develops super-powers, and a large spaceship is <BR>&gt; catastrophically destroyed.&nbsp; Pretty close, no?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Kenji<BR><BR>Waitasecond...<BR><BR>You want to twist my perceptions to the point that I actually *like* the<BR>third film?&nbsp; Dear God, man, does your cruelty know no bounds?<BR><BR><BR>Perry<BR>"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."<BR><BR><BR>(In *my* Aliens universe, there are the first two movies, plus some of<BR>the Dark Horse comics and novels, and that's *it*.)<BR><BR><BR><BR>________________________________________________________________<BR>GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!<BR>Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!<BR>Join Juno today!&nbsp; For your FREE software, visit:<BR>http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 14:36:05 EST<BR>From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Trans-Atlantic Invasion<BR><BR>In a message dated 12/21/00 6:09:58 AM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au writes:<BR><BR>&lt;&lt; And then there was Napoleon....&nbsp; "surrender monkeys" my a**. &gt;&gt;<BR><BR>huh?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 14:57:25 EST<BR>From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>In a message dated 12/21/00 6:29:40 PM !!!First Boot!!!, eris@pcola.gulf.net <BR>writes:<BR><BR>&lt;&lt; Koenig would be a good choice for Lucan's Head of Security, but who would <BR>play Lucan?&nbsp; Ron Perlman? <BR>&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<BR><BR>Alan Rickman?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 15:03:42 EST<BR>From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>In a message dated 12/21/00 7:44:14 PM !!!First Boot!!!, eris@pcola.gulf.net <BR>writes:<BR><BR>&lt;&lt; Yeah, it was an absolute revelation to me.&nbsp; Koenig he reminds me a lot of <BR>Werner Klemper, when he wasn't playing Col. Klink. Klemper could play a <BR>*nasty* wolf in sheeps clothing really, really well, too. &gt;&gt;<BR><BR>he just died last week....:-( I always thought it ironic that he played a LOT <BR>of German heavies when he was Jewish...BTW; I heard an old interview of his <BR>on NPR. He said that during his "Hogans Heroes" casting interview; he said <BR>that he wanted the part, but would leave the series if they ever had Col. <BR>Klink win; hmm....<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 15:08:03 EST<BR>From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>In a message dated 12/21/00 8:58:01 PM !!!First Boot!!!, eris@pcola.gulf.net <BR>writes:<BR><BR>&lt;&lt; For some reason, I haven't seen those movies on late night TV in about 10 <BR>years, I wonder what happened?<BR>&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<BR><BR>Back east, I used to see them on Saturday mornings and/or afternoons. Since I <BR>moved out west; zip...:-(<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 15:27:44 -0500<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Film Cast<BR><BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) types:<BR>&gt;In mail you write:<BR>&gt; &gt; Kenji types:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;I was going to suggest Quentin Tarrantino get a walk-on as Lt.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;Windhook, but the suggestion of Steven Segal is certainly better.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;Also, I'd like to see Chuck Norris cast as the Aslan ambassador who<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;buys it.&nbsp; Either that or Archduke Brrk.<BR>&gt; &gt; Hmmm....yes.&nbsp; Very little makeup work needed to fill out the body fur with<BR>&gt; &gt; Norris.<BR>&gt;Why not have Chuck Norris *play* Norris. :-)<BR><BR>Have you seen him act?<BR>In David Carridine's abysmal book, he wrote that Norris has told him that <BR>he was as good a martial artist as Norris was a actor.&nbsp; Carridine took this <BR>as a compliment...<BR><BR>I'm guessing Kenji suggested Chuck Norris as a Vargr or an Aslan based on <BR>the big fight scene he has with Bruce Lee at the end of "Return of the Dragon."<BR><BR><BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>Did you read what I read?&nbsp; Write it right here in red.<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3453<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-zc01.mx.aol.com (rly-zc01.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.1]) by air-zc02.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Fri, 22 Dec 2000 15:55:39 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-zc01.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Fri, 22 Dec 2000 15:55:02 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id PAA87885;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Fri, 22 Dec 2000 15:29:53 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Fri, 22 Dec 2000 15:29:30 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id PAA87663<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Fri, 22 Dec 2000 15:29:30 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 15:29:30 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012222029.PAA87663@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3453<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Friday, December 22 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3454<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Low standards<BR>Re: Low standards<BR>Re: Semi-OT: New Honor Harrington story<BR>RE: Three Empires Down [FILK]<BR>Travellercentral Down<BR>Re: Travellercentral Down<BR>Happy Holidays!<BR>A Traveller's Prayer<BR>RE: Low standards<BR>Re: Tasks with persistant causes<BR>RE: Low standards<BR>RE: Alienage (was: Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR>Re: The Dweaded Piwacy Thwead<BR>Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR>Re: Three Empires Down [FILK]<BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR>Re: The Dweaded Piwacy Thwead<BR>Re: Noble vs. military rank<BR>Re: Low standards<BR>Landgrab: Sting (and other things)<BR>RE: Happy Holidays!<BR>Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR>Re: Low standards<BR>Re: Tasks with persistant causes<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 14:30:47 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>On 12/22/00 at 02:57 PM,&nbsp; Sethkimmel@aol.com said:<BR><BR>&gt;In a message dated 12/21/00 6:29:40 PM !!!First Boot!!!,<BR>&gt;eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; writes:<BR><BR>&gt;&lt;&lt; Koenig would be a good choice for Lucan's Head of Security, but<BR>&gt;who would&nbsp; play Lucan?&nbsp; Ron Perlman? <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;Alan Rickman?<BR><BR>Ah, he's too strong. You need someone who can play evil, but weak and crazy for Lucan. How about the guy that played the mad Centari Emperor on B5? I don't know who he is, but he struck me as playing the Lucan type to a tee.<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 14:36:38 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>On 12/22/00 at 03:03 PM,&nbsp; Sethkimmel@aol.com said:<BR><BR>&gt;In a message dated 12/21/00 7:44:14 PM !!!First Boot!!!,<BR>&gt;eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; writes:<BR><BR>&gt;&lt;&lt; Yeah, it was an absolute revelation to me.&nbsp; Koenig he reminds me<BR>&gt;a lot of&nbsp; Werner Klemper, when he wasn't playing Col. Klink.<BR>&gt;Klemper could play a&nbsp; *nasty* wolf in sheeps clothing really,<BR>&gt;really well, too. &gt;&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;he just died last week....:-( <BR><BR>Yeah, I know. That was a shame.<BR><BR>&gt;I always thought it ironic that he<BR>&gt;played a LOT&nbsp; of German heavies when he was Jewish...BTW; I heard<BR>&gt;an old interview of his&nbsp; on NPR. He said that during his "Hogans<BR>&gt;Heroes" casting interview; he said&nbsp; that he wanted the part, but<BR>&gt;would leave the series if they ever had Col.&nbsp; Klink win; hmm....<BR><BR>The quote I read was he'd agree to play Klink, but only if Klink was protrayed as an idiot, and Klink certainly fit *that* description. &lt;g&gt; Thinking back there were several episodes where Hogan *let* Klink think he had won, of course he never really did, and the show usually ended with Klink going "Oooo Hogan!" in frustration after having been tricked yet again.<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 15:42:47 -0500<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Semi-OT: New Honor Harrington story<BR><BR>http://www.baen.com/<BR><BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>Monday special, two valiums with a coffee chaser.<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 14:42:12 -0600<BR>From: "Smart, David J (David)" &lt;dasmart@avaya.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Three Empires Down [FILK]<BR><BR>Jonathan McDermott gifted us with:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Let's see if we can provide an ObTrav, between Michelle Yeoh <BR>&gt; as Seldrian, <BR>&gt; Hiver kung fu, and ravioli radiation...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I know!&nbsp; A filk!&nbsp; To the tune of 'Kryptonite' by Three Doors Down:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; No Long Night<BR>&gt; == ==== =====<BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Please, lemmie know if these are getting too silly. =)<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Noo! This stuff rocks!<BR><BR>MoreMoreMoreMore!!!!<BR><BR>David<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 13:03:19 -0800<BR>From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;tod_glenn@smius.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Travellercentral Down<BR><BR>In case anyone is wondering, Verizon is experiencing problems with DSL<BR>circuts in California, Oregon, Texas and Florida.<BR><BR>As a result, the following website are unavailable:<BR><BR>www.travellercentral.com<BR>www.travellerguns.com<BR>www.solsec.org<BR>www.spinwardmarches.com<BR><BR>Thanks<BR><BR>Tod<BR>- ----<BR>Tod Glenn<BR>Technical Consultant<BR>Systems Management, Inc.<BR>tod_glenn@smius.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 13:17:30 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Travellercentral Down<BR><BR>Tod Glenn writes:<BR>&gt; In case anyone is wondering, Verizon is experiencing problems with DSL<BR>&gt; circuts in California, Oregon, Texas and Florida.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; As a result, the following website are unavailable:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; www.travellercentral.com<BR>&gt; www.travellerguns.com<BR>&gt; www.solsec.org<BR>&gt; www.spinwardmarches.com<BR><BR>And maps.grandsurvey.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 10:10:38 +1100 (EST)<BR>From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Craig=20Barnett?= &lt;ca_barnett@yahoo.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Happy Holidays!<BR><BR>This will be my last chance before the big day, so, regardless of race,<BR>religion, and any other PC category I missed, I hope you all have a<BR>safe and happy time over the next week or two, I know I will!<BR><BR>OBTrav: Do they still celebrate Christmas in the 3rd Imperium?<BR><BR>Regards,<BR>Craig.<BR><BR>=====<BR>&lt;ca_barnett@yahoo.com.au&gt;&nbsp; &lt;craig_barnett@iname.com&gt;<BR>Traveller Home Page: http://au.geocities.com/ca_barnett/traveller<BR><BR>_____________________________________________________________________________<BR>http://au.yahoo.com/shopping/giftguide/christmas/jumppage.html - Yahoo! Gift Guides<BR>- - Looking for inspiration?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 18:14:05 EST<BR>From: "Michael A. Hoxie" &lt;ludowick@juno.com&gt;<BR>Subject: A Traveller's Prayer<BR><BR>MJ Dougherty wrote:<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>Amen.<BR><BR>Ludowick<BR><BR><BR>________________________________________________________________<BR>GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!<BR>Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!<BR>Join Juno today!&nbsp; For your FREE software, visit:<BR>http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 18:14:05 EST<BR>From: "Michael A. Hoxie" &lt;ludowick@juno.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Low standards<BR><BR>Ethan Henry wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Please note that the subject _is_ "Low Standards" and no one's<BR>&gt;standards for decent films can fall much lower than mine...<BR><BR>No one...?<BR><BR>&gt;Jackie would play Strephon, so he could do the split-screen-twin-thing<BR>&gt;with his clone a la his various other "twin" movies. Obviously.<BR><BR>Out of the blue I got the image of Ron Jeremy portraying Strephon (&amp; his<BR>double).&nbsp; When Dulinor shoots him in the Palace, his body could writhe<BR>orgiastically (like Faye Dunaway &amp; Gary Busey at the end of "Bonnie &amp;<BR>Claude), and perhaps begin to malfunction in a singular fashion.&nbsp; This<BR>would let Lucan (played by that guy in all the old porn flicks with the<BR>dark hair &amp; the big nuts -- you all know the one) realise that Strephon<BR>was<BR>not the "Real Strephon," and he covers it up &amp; shoots Varian (played by<BR>Mickey Rooney) to death, in order to secure his path to power.<BR><BR>Ludowick &lt;Now the dumbest guy on the TML.&gt;<BR><BR>________________________________________________________________<BR>GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!<BR>Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!<BR>Join Juno today!&nbsp; For your FREE software, visit:<BR>http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 18:14:05 EST<BR>From: "Michael A. Hoxie" &lt;ludowick@juno.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Tasks with persistant causes<BR><BR>Tim Little wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;e.g. Aircraft skill would be a shorthand for training and experience<BR>&gt;in operation of some sort of aeroplane, helicopter, jet, glider or<BR>&gt;even model aircraft.&nbsp; It would probably be focussed primarily on a<BR>&gt;particular type or group of aircraft, and include some or all of<BR>&gt;things like maintenance, protocols, regulations, mechanical skill, and<BR>&gt;dealing with emergencies.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;The description of such skills is intentionally very broad and vague.<BR>&gt;Any further definition is up to the player.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;By default, all dice rolls are "sticky": however you perform on a<BR>&gt;given task is likely to be how you will perform on future instances.<BR>&gt;The more vague the history or the more broad the skill, the more<BR>&gt;variance in the roll.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>I thought about doing something like this under Chaosium's BRP games.<BR>Skills are expressed as a percentage (say pick locks: 50%).&nbsp; You could<BR>have the player roll their skill percentage first to see if they are<BR>familiar with this type of lock (or aircraft, I'm still thinking locks<BR>from previous posts).&nbsp; If they fail, they will have a strong negative<BR>DM for picking all locks of this type (say -40%).&nbsp; If they succeed, they<BR>get a strong bonus for picking locks of this type (+40% ?).<BR><BR>The percentage rating of the skill gives the PC's knowledge base for the<BR>skill in question.&nbsp; [There was a rule in the old "Stormbringer" game<BR>for "music lore" skill that stated something like the higher the PC's<BR>skill<BR>rating, the more instruments they could play, maybe one (1) extra<BR>instrument<BR>for each 10% of skill.&nbsp; I was using this as a basis for the system. <BR>Never<BR>tried it, though.]<BR><BR>Ludowick<BR><BR>________________________________________________________________<BR>GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!<BR>Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!<BR>Join Juno today!&nbsp; For your FREE software, visit:<BR>http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 08:36:58 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Low standards<BR><BR>&gt; From Dean Jones<BR>&gt; &gt; No, Hivers are much better at playing the "engimatic wiseman" type. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; As in the 'mysterious JTAS editor' ?<BR><BR>&lt;wipes coffee off monitor.&gt;<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 08:36:51 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Alienage (was: Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR><BR>&gt; From: "Paul Drye" <BR>&gt; &gt;Is 'Nuke' an official verb in English?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; For it to be official, we'd need some actual officials in charge of the <BR>&gt; matter first...and as has been pointed out repeatedly recently, the <BR>&gt; US/Canada/Australia isn't France....<BR><BR>There are standard dictionaries though.&nbsp; In Australia, it's the Macquarie<BR>Dictionary, I think, although I actually prefer the Oxford.<BR><BR>The scary people wrt spelling are academics.&nbsp; Some of them seem to feel the<BR>need to cover up _their_ inability to spell by announcing that their<BR>mutations are "current usage", and passing on their mistakes to their<BR>students.<BR><BR>But what would I know?&nbsp; I regularly start sentences with "but" and "and". <BR>At least I have the excuse of rarely having to write actual sentences that<BR>people have to read, apart from the TML and other lists where the rules of<BR>grammar, spelling and so on tend towards informality.<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 08:46:41 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Dweaded Piwacy Thwead<BR><BR>&gt; From: TOCoons@cs.com<BR>&gt; First of all, to lay the ground rules, MTU is not the mature 3I and most<BR>&gt; of the arguments against career piracy don't apply. <BR><BR>At the moment I am detailing a subsector in Core in the mature 3I (GT<BR>timeline):&nbsp; the one with Depot/Core in it.&nbsp; I am having a bit of trouble<BR>trying to justify "typical' scenarios within a single jump of one of the<BR>biggest concentrations of military forces in the Imperium...<BR><BR>(I'm also undoing various things that seem to be artifacts of the<BR>Rebellion, plus I am renaming the subsector from what it is called in<BR>Galactic 2.4.&nbsp; I have a suspicion that I may be overwriting DGP material,<BR>and possibly T4 stuff.&nbsp; I will post the result to the list if I get it<BR>finished in the next few days.&nbsp; People can then ignore it completely, or<BR>better yet point out where it conflicts with canon.)<BR><BR>&gt; (I also noted recently that some of the notorious pirates of the 18th<BR>&gt; century or so had very short careers.)<BR><BR>This is true.<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 10:42:30 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>[...black globe flickering at 90% is 100 times easier to hit?...]<BR>&gt; Nope. Because you are *very* hard to spot while the globe is up.<BR>&gt; Basicly, you can only be spotted if you are *noticed* occulting<BR>&gt; something. <BR><BR>This would indeed be true if the black globe was on 100% of the time.<BR>At 90%, though, you still let 10% of sensor signals through.&nbsp; In terms<BR>of radar or ladar power returned, that's about the same as a 70%<BR>increase in distance.&nbsp; And that's assuming the flicker rate is fast.<BR><BR>If it's slow (on the order of a few hundredths of a second or more),<BR>then the return is basically as good as a non-globed target, only<BR>intermittent.&nbsp; You should be able to determine trajectories as<BR>accurately as you would normally, except the globed target can't<BR>accelerate while globed.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; So every time the globe goes down, not only do you fire, but you also<BR>&gt; apply a vector in some odd direction. Then the globe goes back up.<BR><BR>In the meantime, they see your ship in plain view, any exhuast it<BR>might have produced, scatter from your weapons, and have a very good<BR>idea of exactly where you were at the moment of dropping the globe.<BR>From this, their last reading, and doppler data they get a very good<BR>idea of your velocity vector as well.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Which means that you have acquired a new vector. So you move accoding<BR>&gt; to that vector, but the other side hasn't had enough time to determine<BR>&gt; *what* that new vector is with any precision.<BR><BR>No different from any other space combat at long range.&nbsp; Your<BR>information is always old, black globe or not.&nbsp; The advantage of<BR>non-globed ships is that they can apply 10 times more thrust to<BR>enlarge the resulting uncertainty area by a factor of 100.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 15:41:46 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Three Empires Down [FILK]<BR><BR>On Fri, 22 Dec 2000, Jonathan McDermott wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Please, lemmie know if these are getting too silly. =)<BR>&gt; <BR>Well, I don't think so-- but consider the source.<BR><BR>The Empress Kiri Estigarribia (lol!)<BR><BR>******************************************************************************<BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 93!&nbsp; Thou Art God<BR>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR><BR>"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>Desire is embraced in a dream..."&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- X-JAPAN<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 10:52:13 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; BTW, you'll note that this moves the safe limit much closer to low<BR>&gt; density bodies like gas giants and stars. On the other hand, high<BR>&gt; density bodies such nickel iron asteroids.... &lt;eg&gt;<BR><BR>Even pure nickel-iron asteroids aren't much denser than Earth -- Earth<BR>is denser than any other body in the solar system (as far as I know).<BR><BR>A good 'average' value might be half Earth's density.&nbsp; This would move<BR>some planets' jump limits out a bit (up to +25% for Earth), and some<BR>in a bit (to about -35% for Saturn).&nbsp; Basing the 'standard' on Earth<BR>density moves them all inward (-50% for Saturn).<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 10:57:35 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR><BR>Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Also, occultation should be easier to spot if you know exactly where<BR>&gt; to look.&nbsp; With the quality of sensors involved, detectable<BR>&gt; occultation should happen often enough.<BR><BR>Worse still, when you do occult something your exact proper motion<BR>will be known and your enemy can concentrate fire to the limit of<BR>accuracy of their weapons since you can't evade while globed.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 18:04:35 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Dweaded Piwacy Thwead<BR><BR>Alan Bradley wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; From: TOCoons@cs.com<BR>&gt; &gt; First of all, to lay the ground rules, MTU is not the mature 3I and most<BR>&gt; &gt; of the arguments against career piracy don't apply.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; At the moment I am detailing a subsector in Core in the mature 3I (GT<BR>&gt; timeline):&nbsp; the one with Depot/Core in it.&nbsp; I am having a bit of trouble<BR>&gt; trying to justify "typical' scenarios within a single jump of one of the<BR>&gt; biggest concentrations of military forces in the Imperium...<BR><BR>Ah, but that also makes it one of the biggest concentrations of military<BR>_inertia_ in the Imperium.&nbsp; After all, the fleet commander there (quite<BR>possibly a political hack, rather than a "fighting admiral") may not be<BR>willing to send portions of the Imperium's primary stragegic reserve<BR>haring off after some quarter-credit smugglers.<BR><BR>"What if the fleet's needed for a _real_ situation?&nbsp; I can't scatter my<BR>assets across half the subsector chasing petty criminals!&nbsp; It would take<BR>_months_ to reassemble my forces to respond to a crisis, if I have ships<BR>strewn about the subsector like so many piles of poni droppings! <BR>Concentration, I tell you, massed forces hitting hard - that's how you<BR>win wars!"<BR><BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>- -- <BR>AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 19:38:53 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Noble vs. military rank<BR><BR>At 2:29 PM -0500 12/22/00, knightsky@juno.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Waitasecond...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;You want to twist my perceptions to the point that I actually *like* the<BR>&gt;third film?&nbsp; Dear God, man, does your cruelty know no bounds?<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Hmph.&nbsp; I assume that was rhetorical, yes?<BR><BR>Well, what can I say?&nbsp; I actually liked A3 quite a lot, even though <BR>it was conspicuously lacking in Vasquez or Jones, or for that matter, <BR>Hudson.&nbsp; Aside from that fundamental flaw, I preferred it to A2, in <BR>fact.<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 19:53:48 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>At 2:30 PM -0600 12/22/00, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>&gt;On 12/22/00 at 02:57 PM,&nbsp; Sethkimmel@aol.com said:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;In a message dated 12/21/00 6:29:40 PM !!!First Boot!!!,<BR>&gt;&gt;eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; writes:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&lt;&lt; Koenig would be a good choice for Lucan's Head of Security, but<BR>&gt;&gt;who would&nbsp; play Lucan?&nbsp; Ron Perlman?<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Alan Rickman?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Ah, he's too strong.<BR><BR>He's also gone rather badly to seed in the last few years.&nbsp; Like <BR>Lance Henriksen, sad to say.<BR><BR><BR>Okay, suppose that rather than a Classic or HK-Action version, we <BR>were going to have a Hollywood Bullshit-Pablum Blockbuster Traveller <BR>Movie:<BR><BR>Norris -- Harrison Ford<BR>Santanocheev -- Jeremy Irons<BR>Lucan -- Leonardo Di Caprio<BR>Lt. Windhook -- Keanu.<BR>Dulinor -- Jim Carey<BR><BR>etc.<BR><BR>On the other hand... maybe a past-his-prime, bloated, alcoholic Alan <BR>Rickman would be preferable.<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 01:22:49 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Landgrab: Sting (and other things)<BR><BR>There's been a couple of updates to StuffOnline ...<BR><BR>1) Well I've just posted the primary draft of the write-up of the<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; TML Landgrab for Sting (Sword Worlds).&nbsp; I wanted to&nbsp; get&nbsp; that<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; done before the end of the year and I just made&nbsp; it.&nbsp; As&nbsp; with<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Yori this write-up contains IMTU information ...&nbsp; including&nbsp; a<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; lot of non-canon stuff on general Swordie&nbsp; culture&nbsp; (but&nbsp; that<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; couldn't be helped as there is so little cannon material about<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; the Swordies).&nbsp; Anyway, feedback please.<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; For those waiting for the second adventure for Yori: its still<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; being worked on and shouldn't be much longer (plus a few other<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; minor additions to the Yori write-up).<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; How are all the other landgrabs&nbsp; coming&nbsp; along?&nbsp; Anyone&nbsp; who's<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; done a Landgrab write-up but doesn't have a web&nbsp; site:&nbsp; I&nbsp; can<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; host them for you.<BR><BR>2) There's a few characters (former PCs) now posted.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR>http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/trisen/sol<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 01:35:39 -0000<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Happy Holidays!<BR><BR>Craig Barnett wrote:<BR>&gt; OBTrav: Do they still celebrate Christmas in the 3rd Imperium?<BR><BR>They used to but as less and less&nbsp; dwellings&nbsp; have&nbsp; chimneys&nbsp; (or<BR>outside walls with opening windows) the story was changed so that<BR>Santa teleported into&nbsp; each&nbsp; bedroom&nbsp; delivering&nbsp; presents.&nbsp; They<BR>came the Psionic Supressions and Santa was seen as&nbsp; a&nbsp; dirty&nbsp; psi<BR>who tries to bribe loyal Imperial children.&nbsp; So now he's the 3I's<BR>equivalent of the boggyman ... used to frighten&nbsp; little&nbsp; children<BR>into behaving or Santa will visit.&nbsp; (Of course&nbsp; he&nbsp; uses&nbsp; another<BR>psi talent, telepathy, to invade your mind to see if you've&nbsp; been<BR>bad or good.)<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 17:55:31 -0800<BR>From: "David P. Summers" &lt;summers@alum.mit.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR><BR>I'm not sure that BG provide a penalty evasion that is linear<BR>with their flicker rate.&nbsp; Note, you can't determine a change<BR>in direction instantaneously.&nbsp; If you give you ship a pulse<BR>that is sorter than the aquisition time the enemy needs to<BR>figure how you change direction, and then disappear, then<BR>all the time you are behind the black globe you will be moving<BR>in a direction that is slightly different than predicted.....<BR>______________________________<BR>summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>(This is the net.&nbsp; My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 18:30:15 -0800<BR>From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;Alan Rickman?<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Ah, he's too strong.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;He's also gone rather badly to seed in the last few years.&nbsp; Like Lance<BR>Henriksen, sad to say.<BR>&gt;<BR>And Jackie Chan hasn't????<BR><BR>You must have missed Shanghai Noon.<BR><BR>Kiri&nbsp; ^_^<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 13:33:47 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Tasks with persistant causes<BR><BR>Michael A. Hoxie wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; You could have the player roll their skill percentage first to see<BR>&gt; if they are familiar with this type of lock ...&nbsp; If they fail, they<BR>&gt; will have a strong negative DM for picking all locks of this type<BR>&gt; (say -40%).&nbsp; If they succeed, they get a strong bonus for picking<BR>&gt; locks of this type (+40% ?).<BR><BR>I like bell-curve systems better for this.&nbsp; Percentages don't add<BR>nicely.&nbsp; Still, it's quite workable and would make me happier with<BR>percentile systems in general.&nbsp; (As it stands, I hate them with a<BR>passion)<BR><BR>One simple variation would be having the GM (or game system) divide<BR>rolls into some basic types.&nbsp; You could think of it as extending<BR>MT modifiers like "Fateful", "Safe", Hazardous", etc.<BR><BR>Chancy:<BR>&nbsp; Mainly ignores skills or downgrades their effectiveness.&nbsp; It is<BR>suitable for tasks where factors outside the characters' control<BR>dominate the outcome.&nbsp; Halve or drop skill level modifiers.<BR><BR>Specialised:<BR>&nbsp; Largely determined by an aspect of a skill below the level of detail<BR>of the game system.&nbsp; A successful roll on the first use means the<BR>character has this particular aspect of the skill, and gets a bonus to<BR>future tasks based on this aspect.&nbsp; Failure means the opposite.<BR>&nbsp; Most use of skill in most broad skill systems like GURPS or<BR>Traveller probably should fall into this category.&nbsp; A few aspects will<BR>be predetermined by character background.<BR><BR>Chancy *and* Specialised:<BR>&nbsp; This is a task that isn't greatly affected by skill, but is based on<BR>lasting influences that fall below the level of abstraction of the<BR>game system.&nbsp; However, success means that these influences (whatever<BR>they are), are in the character's favour and rolls based on the same<BR>factors get a bonus.&nbsp; (Opposite for failure, as per normal).<BR>&nbsp; This might be useful for things like NPC reactions to characters, or<BR>if looking for particular replacement parts in various places on some<BR>planet or other.<BR><BR>Specialised tasks would be excellent application for characters with<BR>Jack-of-all-Trades skill.&nbsp; JoaT doesn't give deep ability in any<BR>skills, but gives a chance of having some particular aspects of skill.<BR>e.g. Your JoaT skill could include Engineer skill, but only for<BR>repairs on a particular type of fusion thruster.<BR><BR>You wouldn't need to record such detailed bonuses and penalties on the<BR>character sheet -- most players are very good at remembering what<BR>their characters have done in play.&nbsp; Besides, if no-one can remember<BR>what happened then it hardly matters.&nbsp; Just roll afresh.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; [There was a rule in the old "Stormbringer" game for "music lore"<BR>&gt; skill that stated something like the higher the PC's skill rating,<BR>&gt; the more instruments they could play, maybe one (1) extra instrument<BR>&gt; for each 10% of skill.<BR><BR>I would expect it to be easier to just roll dice for any given<BR>instrument when you come across one.&nbsp; (i.e. one of the "Specialised"<BR>tasks in the MT-type description above)<BR><BR>This saves time by avoiding tying up character creation time with<BR>selection of many musical instruments, and saves possible arguments<BR>over how much variation is tolerated before an instrument qualifies as<BR>"different".&nbsp; (I've seen such arguments)<BR><BR>e.g. Music Lore-20% gives a 20% chance of being able to play a random<BR>instrument X.&nbsp; If you know how to play X and X2 is very similar, you<BR>would have a large chance (e.g. 90%) to know how to play X2 also.&nbsp; In<BR>fact, maybe you originally practiced with X2 and only know how to play<BR>X through similarity.<BR><BR>Music Lore-90% means you're familiar with a very wide range of<BR>instruments, with only a 10% chance that you won't know how to play a<BR>randomly-selected instrument.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3454<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-ye05.mx.aol.com (rly-ye05.mail.aol.com [172.18.151.202]) by air-ye02.mail.aol.com (v77.14) with ESMTP; Fri, 22 Dec 2000 21:57:19 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-ye05.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Fri, 22 Dec 2000 21:56:46 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id VAA18429;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Fri, 22 Dec 2000 21:31:24 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Fri, 22 Dec 2000 21:31:16 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id VAA18385<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Fri, 22 Dec 2000 21:31:16 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 21:31:16 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012230231.VAA18385@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3454<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Saturday, December 23 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3455<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR>Re: Happy Holidays!<BR>Re: Low standards<BR>Re: Low standards<BR>Re: Low standards<BR>Re: Low standards<BR>Re: Low standards<BR>Re: Low standards<BR>Re: Low standards<BR>Aliens (was Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR>JoaT (Was: Re: Tasks with persistant causes)<BR>Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Re: Semi-OT: New Honor Harrington story<BR>Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: GroundForces))<BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>Re: Low standards<BR>YATS.X<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 13:37:22 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR><BR>David P. Summers wrote:<BR>&gt; I'm not sure that BG provide a penalty evasion that is linear<BR>&gt; with their flicker rate.&nbsp; Note, you can't determine a change<BR>&gt; in direction instantaneously.&nbsp; If you give you ship a pulse<BR>&gt; that is sorter than the aquisition time the enemy needs to<BR>&gt; figure how you change direction, and then disappear, then<BR>&gt; all the time you are behind the black globe you will be moving<BR>&gt; in a direction that is slightly different than predicted.....<BR><BR>Such a short pulse is also necessarily a *small* change in direction.<BR><BR>You have a disadvantage compared to a target than can apply continuous<BR>thrust in various directions in an unpredicatable manner.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 19:07:53<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Happy Holidays!<BR><BR>At 10:10 AM 12/23/2000 +1100, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;OBTrav: Do they still celebrate Christmas in the 3rd Imperium?<BR><BR>IMTU, the Reformed Catholic Church is still around, so christmas is still<BR>celebrated on worlds where the church has a following.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 19:09:56<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>At 07:53 PM 12/22/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;Alan Rickman?<BR><BR>&gt;He's also gone rather badly to seed in the last few years.&nbsp; Like <BR>&gt;Lance Henriksen, sad to say.<BR><BR>Really?&nbsp; I loved him in _Dogma_<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 16:31:26 +1300<BR>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>On 22 Dec 00, at 14:57, Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; In a message dated 12/21/00 6:29:40 PM !!!First Boot!!!, eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>&gt; writes:<BR><BR>&gt; &lt;&lt; Koenig would be a good choice for Lucan's Head of Security, but who would<BR>&gt; &lt;&lt; play Lucan?&nbsp; Ron Perlman? <BR><BR>&gt; Alan Rickman?<BR><BR>I've always thought Kevin Smith (he plays Ares in Xena) would make a <BR>passable Lucan. He looks right and can play a civilised nasty very well. <BR>And he'd be good for the musical version too.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 21:35:05 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>On 12/23/00 at 04:31 PM,&nbsp; "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;On 22 Dec 00, at 14:57, Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; In a message dated 12/21/00 6:29:40 PM !!!First Boot!!!, eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>&gt;&gt; writes:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; &lt;&lt; Koenig would be a good choice for Lucan's Head of Security, but who would<BR>&gt;&gt; &lt;&lt; play Lucan?&nbsp; Ron Perlman? <BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Alan Rickman?<BR><BR>&gt;I've always thought Kevin Smith (he plays Ares in Xena) would make<BR>&gt;a&nbsp; passable Lucan. He looks right and can play a civilised nasty<BR>&gt;very well.&nbsp; And he'd be good for the musical version too.<BR><BR>All of you seem to see Lucan as a big, strong, good-looking guy. I see him as a ugly little weasel of a man as twisted on the outside as he is on the inside.<BR><BR>Eris,<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; no Lucan fan &lt;g&gt;<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 22:52:05 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>At 6:30 PM -0800 12/22/00, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;He's also gone rather badly to seed in the last few years.&nbsp; Like Lance<BR>&gt;Henriksen, sad to say.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;And Jackie Chan hasn't????<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;You must have missed Shanghai Noon.<BR><BR>Oh.&nbsp; Dang.&nbsp; I knew I felt incomplete.<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 22:53:40 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>At 7:09 PM -0500 12/22/00, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;He's also gone rather badly to seed in the last few years.&nbsp; Like<BR>&gt;&gt;Lance Henriksen, sad to say.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Really?&nbsp; I loved him in _Dogma_<BR><BR>Okay, I missed that, too... I was thinking of his guest appearance in <BR>the X-Files, which I just saw recently... seemed like he'd been <BR>hitting the Robitussin and Ho-Hos pretty hard.<BR><BR>Not that I don't totally sympathize, mind you.<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 22:22:26 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; All of you seem to see Lucan as a big, strong, good-looking guy. I see him as a ugly little weasel of a man as twisted on the outside as he is on the inside.<BR><BR>Hmmm.&nbsp; Sounds as if Rick Moranis would fit your view of Lucan.&nbsp; Danny De<BR>Vito might also work.<BR><BR>Those who met me at BayCon 2000 might consider _me_ for Lucan.<BR><BR>**looks in mirror, winces**<BR><BR>I certainly fit your description of "an ugly little weasel."&nbsp; Plus, as a<BR>military intelligence interrogator, I'm guaranteed twisted inside and<BR>out.... ;-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 20:12:59<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>At 10:53 PM 12/22/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>&gt;At 7:09 PM -0500 12/22/00, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Really?&nbsp; I loved him in _Dogma_<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Okay, I missed that, too... I was thinking of his guest appearance in <BR>&gt;the X-Files, which I just saw recently... seemed like he'd been <BR>&gt;hitting the Robitussin and Ho-Hos pretty hard.<BR><BR>Go rent Dogma now.&nbsp; Best examination of the nature of faith vs. the ideals<BR>of a church since St. Thomas Aquinas went to his final rest.<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 23:21:06 -0500<BR>From: knightsky@juno.com<BR>Subject: Aliens (was Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR><BR>&gt; Well, what can I say?&nbsp; I actually liked A3 quite a lot, even though <BR>&gt; it was conspicuously lacking in Vasquez or Jones, or for that <BR>&gt; matter, <BR>&gt; Hudson.&nbsp; Aside from that fundamental flaw, I preferred it to A2, in <BR>&gt; fact.<BR><BR>Ah well, to each their own.&nbsp; For me, the fact that (do I really need a<BR>spoiler space for this?) Hicks &amp; Newt were killed before the opening<BR>credits could end really did *not* endear this film to me.&nbsp; The rest of<BR>the story did nothing to improve my opinion of the film, but merely<BR>induced cases of projectile vomiting and explosive diarrhea onto my<BR>person, not unlike the American theatrical release of Highlander II.<BR><BR>Out of curiousity, have you ever read the alternate script for A3 written<BR>(supposedly) by William Gibson?&nbsp; I much prefer it to what was released<BR>theatrically (obviously!), and it also includes what is one of my<BR>favorite movie lines, which is impressive considering that it was never<BR>filmed!<BR><BR><BR>Perry<BR>"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>________________________________________________________________<BR>GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!<BR>Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!<BR>Join Juno today!&nbsp; For your FREE software, visit:<BR>http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 22:31:47 -0600<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: JoaT (Was: Re: Tasks with persistant causes)<BR><BR>Timothy Little wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Specialised tasks would be excellent application for characters with<BR>&gt; Jack-of-all-Trades skill.&nbsp; JoaT doesn't give deep ability in any<BR>&gt; skills, but gives a chance of having some particular aspects of skill.<BR>&gt; e.g. Your JoaT skill could include Engineer skill, but only for<BR>&gt; repairs on a particular type of fusion thruster.<BR><BR>It would seem that we have diametrically-opposed views concerning<BR>Jack-of-all-Trades (JoaT) skill.<BR><BR>I see JoaT as a _talent_ for figuring out what needs to be done in an<BR>unfamiliar situation, more quickly than an unskilled and untalented<BR>person would.<BR><BR>For instance, a JoaT trying to land a modular cutter (without Ship's<BR>Boat or Pilot skill) might say:<BR><BR>**your interpretation**<BR><BR>*looks at previous JoaT use in landing cutters*<BR><BR>"Damn.&nbsp; I've only landed LSP cutters before.&nbsp; I don't have any idea how<BR>to land an AuricTech cutter...."<BR><BR>**my interpretation**<BR><BR>"Hmmm.&nbsp; An AuricTech UC-5F cutter.&nbsp; I haven't been in one of these<BR>before.&nbsp; Let's see.&nbsp; Is there a 'Help' menu?&nbsp; Yeah.&nbsp; Here we go."<BR><BR>&lt;&lt;asks Help menu "What is where on the control panel?"&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>"All right.&nbsp; Now I know what the control panel is telling me.&nbsp; Now I<BR>need to ask Help what the controls actually _do_."<BR><BR>&lt;&lt;asks Help menu "How do controls function&gt;"&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>"Cool!&nbsp; I think I can fly this puppy.&nbsp; Lemme check out the controls...."<BR><BR>&lt;&lt;tests controls, gets feel for controls before landing&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>"All right.&nbsp; I think I can bring this thing down.&nbsp; It may not be pretty,<BR>but we shouldn't be dead...."<BR><BR>&lt;&lt;rolls for final landing&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>As I see it, JoaT can act as zero-level skill in many skills (_which_<BR>skills should be determined by the referee).&nbsp; However, any JoaT-based<BR>roll should require at least double the normal time, since even JoaTs<BR>will spend time looking up references.<BR><BR>Also, JoaT skill will often require multiple skill rolls (with<BR>player-supplied narrative helping to ameliorate any failures) for tasks<BR>that only require one roll for skilled task resolution.<BR><BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>- -- <BR>AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 20:23:46 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; That's why I said "~" Leonard.&nbsp; I could have just as easily put the exact<BR>&gt; conversion but rounded to roughly the nearest 1/2m.&nbsp; Sheesh :)<BR><BR>There's a bit more that 1/2 m between 45 and 48 meters. :-)<BR><BR>(What caught my attention was that multiplying the smaller figure by 2<BR>didn't produce a result at all close to the larger one)<BR><BR>&gt; Yes, those two were getting old.&nbsp; I've every hope that they'll make more for<BR>&gt; next year.<BR><BR>I say we need a flying saucer cutout. :-)<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Target-wise we periodically call the range cold and set out water jugs,<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; bowling pins, and strings of balloons at 50yds and 100yds (that's ~48m &amp;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; 91.5m for you metric types ;).<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; No, that's 45.72 m and 91.44 m.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 20:30:04 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Semi-OT: New Honor Harrington story<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;I just discovered that the "sample "chapter" for "Changer of Worlds"<BR>&gt;&gt;(due out in March) is a *complete* (331k!) story.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; URL, Leonard?<BR><BR>I don't have the URL handy, but try these directions:<BR><BR>Go to http://www.baen.com and check the March 2001 releases list.<BR>You'll see "Changer of Worlds" by David Weber listed. If you click on<BR>it, you'll be taken to a "sample chapter". Which is the aforesaid<BR>story.<BR><BR>The release lists are on the home page, you just need to scroll down a bit...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 20:38:44 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; How are you going to fire without first making a sensor contact?&nbsp; So<BR>&gt; this whole drop globe for a few seconds, fire and maneuver thingy is<BR>&gt; impractical if you think about it.<BR><BR>Scatter a bunch of well stealthed drones. They track the enemy with<BR>passive sensors and know when you'll be dropping the globe. They take<BR>turns dumping an updated plot to you. <BR><BR>With goood computers, you can download the plot, fire, and raise the<BR>globe just as their sensors are telling them that you've dropped it. :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 20:43:37 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Dominic Mooney wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; It would be good to know if the 100D limit is mean to be an<BR>&gt;&gt; approximation as I'm curious if a ship actually has to get with 100D<BR>&gt;&gt; of a black hole to precipitate out...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I'd like to know what sort of objects the 100D limit applies to.&nbsp; A<BR>&gt; protostellar nebula can be a good fraction of a light year across.&nbsp; If<BR>&gt; the 100-D limit applies to "massive objects bound by gravity", then it<BR>&gt; could prevent jump travel in a region tens of parsecs across.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I'm assuming "bound by gravity" to prevent things like dust nebulae<BR>&gt; preventing jump travel in regions tens of thousands of parsecs across.<BR><BR>Marc has stated that you only need to worry about objects bigger than<BR>the ship. So if the objects are smaller *and* their 100D limits don't<BR>overlap, you can ignore them.<BR><BR>&gt; My bet is on the 100D limit being an approximation for gravitational<BR>&gt; tidal stress warping spacetime too much for jump drives to function.<BR>&gt; If Earth's "100D" limit is at 1.3 million km distance, the threshold<BR>&gt; stress would be about 2x10^-13/s^2.<BR><BR>&gt; Since tidal stress varies with the inverse third power of distance,<BR>&gt; variations in density actually have little effect on the threshold<BR>&gt; distance.&nbsp; A halving of density would only affect the 100D limit by<BR>&gt; 20% (i.e. 80D instead).&nbsp; For normal objects like stars, planets, and<BR>&gt; moons this means that a 100D approximation would be good enough for<BR>&gt; game purposes.<BR><BR>Actually this is more important than you may realize:<BR><BR>Object&nbsp; &nbsp; Density<BR>- ------&nbsp; &nbsp; -------<BR>Sol&nbsp; &nbsp; 1.4<BR>Mercury&nbsp; &nbsp; 5.43<BR>Venus&nbsp; &nbsp; 5.24<BR>Terra&nbsp; &nbsp; 5.515<BR>Luna&nbsp; &nbsp; 3.34<BR>Mars&nbsp; &nbsp; 3.94<BR>Jupiter&nbsp; &nbsp; 1.33<BR>Saturn&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.70<BR>Uranus&nbsp; &nbsp; 1.30<BR>Neptune&nbsp; &nbsp; 1.76<BR>Pluto&nbsp; &nbsp; 1.1<BR><BR>And a nickel-iron asteroid will have a density of around 7.8!<BR><BR>&gt; It's only when you get to more unusual objects like nebulae and black<BR>&gt; holes that the strict 100D theory starts to diverge from the tidal<BR>&gt; stress theory.<BR><BR>Work out the tidal strees limit (in diamters) for the bodies listed<BR>above. <BR><BR>T=G*M/R^3<BR>M=D*V<BR><BR>T=G*D*V/R^3<BR>V=(4*pi*R^3)/3<BR><BR>T=4*pi*G*D*R^3/(3*R^3)<BR><BR>T=4*pi*G*D/3<BR><BR>&gt; One question: If pure 100D theory is canonical, does it apply to<BR>&gt; non-spherical objects?&nbsp; Would a tether 1000 km long prevent jump out<BR>&gt; to a distance of 100 000 km?&nbsp; What happens if you break a 10-km<BR>&gt; asteroid into nearby 100-metre chunks?&nbsp; Do the fragments still prevent<BR>&gt; jump out to 1000 km, or is it just the union of each chunk's 10 km<BR>&gt; limit?&nbsp; (I suspect these questions have no canonical answer)<BR><BR>I suspect you are right. <BR><BR>I already gave my answer to the "cloud of objects" situation. If the<BR>limits don't overlap, you treat them individually. If they do, you<BR>treat them as the union of the limits (or as one big object).<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 20:27:05 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: GroundForces))<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Do you still have the signs "Welcome to Oregon, now go home!" up? Or was<BR>&gt; that Washington?<BR><BR>It was Oregon. But it was more along the lines of "Visit Scenic Oregon.<BR>Spend lots of Money. Go Home!"<BR><BR>And then there were the Oregon Ungreeting cards:<BR><BR>Front:&nbsp; &nbsp; Last year in Oregon 1,317 people fell off their bicycles...<BR>Inside:&nbsp; &nbsp; ... and drowned.<BR><BR>Oregonians don't tan...<BR>... they rust.<BR><BR>Last year in Oregon, summer fell on a weekend and more people got to<BR>enjoy it.<BR><BR>And so on...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 20:59:36 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; BTW, you'll note that this moves the safe limit much closer to low<BR>&gt;&gt; density bodies like gas giants and stars. On the other hand, high<BR>&gt;&gt; density bodies such nickel iron asteroids.... &lt;eg&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Even pure nickel-iron asteroids aren't much denser than Earth -- Earth<BR>&gt; is denser than any other body in the solar system (as far as I know).<BR><BR>Not true. We don't have good densities for asteroids, but we *know*<BR>that some are nickel iron. And the fragments from such that have<BR>reached Earth are *considerably* denser that Earth. Around 150% as dense.<BR><BR>&gt; A good 'average' value might be half Earth's density.&nbsp; This would move<BR>&gt; some planets' jump limits out a bit (up to +25% for Earth), and some<BR>&gt; in a bit (to about -35% for Saturn).&nbsp; Basing the 'standard' on Earth<BR>&gt; density moves them all inward (-50% for Saturn).<BR><BR>Most "rocky" planets with an iron core have densities like Earth (5-5.5)<BR>"Stony" planets (Mars, Luna, some satellites) are around 3-3.5. And icy<BR>bodies and gas giants are around 1-2.<BR><BR>The CRC handbook has a table with the densities of the planets (which I<BR>posted in another message). It also has a table of satellites of the<BR>planets (moons). Only about half have densities listed, but that's<BR>still *way* more typing than I feel like right now.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 20:36:38 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Okay, suppose that rather than a Classic or HK-Action version, we <BR>&gt; were going to have a Hollywood Bullshit-Pablum Blockbuster Traveller <BR>&gt; Movie:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Norris -- Harrison Ford<BR>&gt; Santanocheev -- Jeremy Irons<BR>&gt; Lucan -- Leonardo Di Caprio<BR>&gt; Lt. Windhook -- Keanu.<BR>&gt; Dulinor -- Jim Carey<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; etc.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; On the other hand... maybe a past-his-prime, bloated, alcoholic Alan <BR>&gt; Rickman would be preferable.<BR><BR>Actually, it occurs to me that Jim Carrey is the *perfect* choice to<BR>play a hiver. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 00:09:25 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: YATS.X<BR><BR>Yet Another Task System number 10...and Chargen too! &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>I think Attributes and Skills should be rated on the same scale.<BR>When you do this the same Task System procedure can deal with<BR>situations where you want to use INT for a perception roll, STR for<BR>forcing open a hatch, or Intrusion to bypass a lock.<BR><BR>GURPS does this, more or less, but I'm not going to discuss GURPS.<BR>Instead, I'm going to propose something similar, different, but<BR>similar.<BR><BR>&nbsp; --- --- ---<BR>&nbsp; <BR>We are going to use a 3d6 roll to resolve tasks.&nbsp; Therefore we want<BR>to normalize both Attributes and Skills into a scale where 10.5<BR>is the expected value.<BR><BR>Attributes:&nbsp; <BR><BR>Use the standard Characteristics from Traveller <BR>&nbsp; STR<BR>&nbsp; END or CON<BR>&nbsp; DEX or AGL<BR>&nbsp; INT<BR>&nbsp; EDU<BR>&nbsp; SOC (and CHR if you prefer)<BR>&nbsp; <BR>Either roll 2d6 for each, add 3 and shift the result toward 10 by<BR>one.&nbsp; Examples:&nbsp; roll 4, add 3 giving 7 and shift up to 8; roll 7,<BR>add 3 giving 10 leave at 10; roll 10, add 3 giving 13 and shift down<BR>to 12.<BR><BR>This gives you a range of 6 to 14, centered on 10 and is only<BR>a hair less grainy than the regular 2d6.&nbsp; When you go through the<BR>PC's career you'll be adding or subtracting levels as you roll them<BR>as usual, so you'll end up with a broader range possiblly up to 17<BR>or 18 on the top end and down to 2 or 3 on the lower end.<BR><BR>Skills:<BR><BR>Use the career generation system in the Traveller version of your<BR>choice to generate skills.&nbsp; (IMO Traveller is a *broad* skill game<BR>while GURPS is a narrow skill game, so for a Traveller feel use<BR>broad skills.)&nbsp; You'll have a few more skill levels to distribute if<BR>you use the INT+EDU limit now that you are averaging 10 rather than<BR>7, so enjoy.&nbsp; Personally, I'd use the CT tables rolling once on each<BR>and allowing one skill to be picked for 4 per 4 year term, but you<BR>can do what you want as long as you are generating skills in the<BR>range of 1 to 6 or 7.<BR><BR>When you finish generating your character list your skills on the<BR>Character sheet and add 10 to each one.&nbsp; You'll be using the level +<BR>10 on your rolls.&nbsp; Examples:&nbsp; Pilot-2 12, Intrusion-1 11, Pistol-5<BR>15, ...and so on. <BR><BR>And there you go, Attributes and Skills are pretty much on the same<BR>scale.&nbsp; Okay, Skills tend higher, but I like competent PC's with<BR>good skills, so there!<BR><BR>OPTION:&nbsp; Using an Attribute instead of adding 10 to the Skill<BR>level...don't do it!&nbsp; But if you won't take my advice, go ahead.<BR>You'll be back to the same old problems from other Traveller<BR>systems.&nbsp; Maybe you don't see them as problems and if you don't, who<BR>am I to argue with you.<BR><BR><BR>Now for the Task System...<BR><BR>1.&nbsp; Determine the difficulty of the task on the following scale and<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; add the associated value to the appropriate skill or attribute<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; level along with any other modifiers producing a Target Number.<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; 6 Automatic <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; 4 Easy&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; 2 Routine&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; 0 Average&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp; -2 Difficult <BR>&nbsp; -4 Formidable<BR>&nbsp; -6 Staggering<BR>&nbsp; -8 Hopeless&nbsp; <BR>-10 Impossible<BR><BR>(If you want more Difficulty levels go for it!&nbsp; Very works well, as<BR>in Very Difficult, Very Easy and so on.&nbsp; If you want fewer levels,<BR>that's cool too, just have larger steps between the levels.&nbsp; Heck,<BR>you could have something like...<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; 10 Easy<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 5 Routine<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 0 Average<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; -5 Formidable<BR>&nbsp; -10 Hopeless<BR><BR>...if you wanted, in fact it looks pretty good to me!)<BR><BR>2.&nbsp; Roll 3d6<BR><BR>3.&nbsp; If the roll is less or equal to the Target Number you succeed,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; otherwise you fail.&nbsp; Optionally, if you'd like you can have a<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; roll of 3 be an Automatic Success and a roll of 18 be an<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Automatic Failure.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>Opposed Tasks:&nbsp; Everyone rolls and the one that succeeds by most<BR>wins.&nbsp; If no one succeeds, then you all roll again, or whoever<BR>failed by least wins...GM option.<BR><BR>Degree of Success:&nbsp; The number of points you succeed or fail by is<BR>your degree of success which the GM *may* use to set an appropriate<BR>outcome.<BR><BR>Converting Characters:&nbsp; Come on! It's a no brainer...right? <BR><BR>Injuries:&nbsp; Why not use a STR, END, DEX like CT/MT/T4?&nbsp; You can,<BR>you'll need to make your weapons a little more deadly...the ones in<BR>GURPS should be deadly enough for you, or just add a die to the<BR>Traveller ones.&nbsp; You could lift the system out of GURPS if you<BR>wanted, either STR or END (depending on which side of that argument<BR>you come down on).&nbsp; Or you could use a Wounds System like in Fudge.<BR><BR>Combat:&nbsp; Use the Task System!&nbsp; That's what it's there for.&nbsp; As for<BR>Ranges, either make some up or lift them.&nbsp; Or use the two in GURPS<BR>(0 to 1/2d = Short; 1/2d to max = Long) if you want.<BR><BR>Other:&nbsp; Make it up as you go?&nbsp; &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>And Final NON-OPTIONAL Rule:&nbsp; The GM can do whatever she wants to<BR>keep the game entertaining for herself and her players.<BR><BR>&nbsp; --- --- ---<BR><BR>Need I say more?<BR><BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3455<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yh04.mx.aol.com (rly-yh04.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.36]) by air-yh05.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Sat, 23 Dec 2000 01:36:15 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yh04.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Sat, 23 Dec 2000 01:35:41 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id BAA36405;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Sat, 23 Dec 2000 01:11:50 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Sat, 23 Dec 2000 01:11:37 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id BAA36366<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Sat, 23 Dec 2000 01:11:37 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 01:11:37 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012230611.BAA36366@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3455<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Saturday, December 23 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3456<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Low standards<BR>Fwd: Famile Spofulam Weapon-naming Conventions<BR>Re: JoaT (Was: Re: Tasks with persistant causes)<BR>re: Who Won, Who Lost<BR>Re: Happy Holidays!<BR>Re: YATS.X<BR>Re: ACQ was RE: BITS adventures...<BR>Re: Noble vs. military rank<BR>Re: Walter Koenig (RE: Low standards)<BR>re: Who Won, Who Lost<BR>H&amp;E The Future<BR>Re: H&amp;E The Future<BR>HazMat was ACQ was RE: BITS adventures...<BR>Re: H&amp;E The Future<BR>TRAVELLER scenarios<BR>Re: Noble vs. military rank<BR>Re: Need Aramanx stuff<BR>Re: Need Aramanx stuff<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 00:17:21 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>On 12/22/00 at 10:22 PM,&nbsp; John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; All of you seem to see Lucan as a big, strong, good-looking guy. I see him as a ugly little weasel of a man as twisted on the outside as he is on the inside.<BR><BR>&gt;Hmmm.&nbsp; Sounds as if Rick Moranis would fit your view of Lucan. <BR><BR>Yes, he would, but the one I have in mind is a SNL guy that was on sitcom a couple years ago playing a learing idiot. I can't give you a name, and I'm afraid that describes more than one guy. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;Danny De Vito might also work.<BR><BR>Nope, too old. Too old even when he was on Cheers. If you want a all time pick, it would be the guy that played Eddie Haskle on "Leave it to Beaver." Didn't he grow up to be a cop in LA? &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;Those who met me at BayCon 2000 might consider _me_ for Lucan.<BR><BR>&gt;**looks in mirror, winces**<BR><BR>&gt;I certainly fit your description of "an ugly little weasel."&nbsp; Plus,<BR>&gt;as a military intelligence interrogator, I'm guaranteed twisted<BR>&gt;inside and out.... ;-)<BR><BR>LOL!&nbsp; *I'd* never say that, but if *you* want to then who am I to disagree with you? &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Eris,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; an ugly little weasel in his own right!<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 22:30:17 -0800<BR>From: "Mark F. Cook" &lt;markc@peak.org&gt;<BR>Subject: Fwd: Famile Spofulam Weapon-naming Conventions<BR><BR>Charles R Hensley &lt;hensley.cr@gte.net&gt; writes:<BR><BR>&gt;Subject: RE: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;It would have to be<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Famile Spofulam<BR>&gt;Light Weapons<BR>&gt;Testing Team<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;As nothing at the Oregon Fun Shoot qualifies as a "Heavy Weapon" to<BR>&gt;Famile Spofulam.<BR><BR>Fine, Charles.&nbsp; *YOU* shoulder-fire the Solothurn! :^)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 00:41:14 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: JoaT (Was: Re: Tasks with persistant causes)<BR><BR>On 12/22/00 at 10:31 PM,&nbsp; John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;Timothy Little wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Specialised tasks would be excellent application for characters with<BR>&gt;&gt; Jack-of-all-Trades skill.&nbsp; JoaT doesn't give deep ability in any<BR>&gt;&gt; skills, but gives a chance of having some particular aspects of skill.<BR>&gt;&gt; e.g. Your JoaT skill could include Engineer skill, but only for<BR>&gt;&gt; repairs on a particular type of fusion thruster.<BR><BR>&gt;It would seem that we have diametrically-opposed views concerning<BR>&gt;Jack-of-all-Trades (JoaT) skill.<BR><BR>Yeah, I'm with you on this one John.&nbsp; I see Jack of *All* Trades,<BR>Master of none is a supreme generalist talent.&nbsp; I'd say your JoAT,<BR>the A is important ;-), could give you a level 0 in any kind of<BR>Engineering, but it couldn't give you a higher skill in any<BR>specialty within Engineering.&nbsp; <BR><BR>For the most part, I've discouraged players from taking JOAT because<BR>I haven't felt comfortable using it, but it occurs to me that I<BR>might like it like this:&nbsp; If a PC needs/wants to do something, but<BR>has no skill in the required area he can roll against JOAT to "think<BR>of something."&nbsp; If he makes his roll he gets to roll a Level 0 (or<BR>default or some other penalized) attempt even without the skill. <BR><BR>About the Task Persistance that Tim is talking about, it seems to me<BR>that he wants PC's to have broad skills until tested, then as they<BR>succeed or fail on tasks specializations emerge.<BR><BR>Sally has Engineering-3, but that means little<BR>&nbsp; She succeeds by 2 at a difficult repair of a LSP-FFP500 reactor,<BR>&nbsp; now we know has the ability to repair fusion reactors at a +5,<BR>&nbsp; specically the Ling model.<BR><BR>Maybe her player modifies Sally's Character Sheet to...<BR><BR>&nbsp; Engineering-3<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Fusion Engines-5<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Ling fusion engines (Difficult)&nbsp; <BR><BR>From now on Sally automatically repairs Ling engines at a level of<BR>Difficult or less (+5 otherwise), rolls with +5 for other fusion<BR>engines, and we don't know yet about other Engineering specialties,<BR>but she will be tested at +3.<BR><BR>Eris<BR><BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 09:33:34 +0200 (EET)<BR>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;<BR>Subject: re: Who Won, Who Lost<BR><BR>On Sat, 23 Dec 2000, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:<BR>&gt; unusually subtle one. Plus even in 44 when the war ended, the Russians <BR>&gt; didn't seem to want to undermine the Finnish government and replace it <BR>&gt; with a satelite like they did with the rest of Eastern Europe.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; One is left with the feeling that the Soviets didn't think it worth the effort it <BR>&gt; would have required to absorb Finland.<BR><BR>(Disclaimer: I have not read Finnish history before WWII for a long time.<BR>If somebody is interested, I can check the facts. This is an<BR>approximation.)<BR>They (or, better, the Russians before the Soviets, there is a difference<BR>IMO), tried to assimilate the Finns into Russia some fify years earlier. <BR>This resulted in a angry reaction, and we did oppose it, so that many <BR>oppressive decisions were later lifted. <BR><BR>I think they thought it would be too great a hassle, and we did put up a <BR>good fight during WWII. There is a Finnish proverb which goes something<BR>like "one Finn is worth ten Russian". This is of course partly a<BR>consequence of Soviet human wave tactics.<BR><BR>Now it just seems that the Russians didn't learn. Look at Chechenya(sp?).<BR>The Russians will never "win" unless they butcher all the native people.<BR>B-( <BR><BR>- -- <BR>+++++++++[&gt;+++++++++&lt;-]&gt;-.&lt;+++++[&gt;+++&lt;-]++&gt;++.&lt;++[&gt;++++&lt;-]+&gt;+.&lt;++[&gt;----<BR>&lt;-]&gt;-.&gt;+++[&gt;++++++++++&lt;-]++&gt;++pare@iki.fi&lt;+[&gt;++++&lt;-]&gt;+.-&gt;+[&gt;++++[&lt;&lt;---&gt;<BR>&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;.&gt;&gt;+++++++[&lt;++++++++++&gt;-]++++[&lt;+++++&gt;-]&lt;-.&gt;[-]&gt;+++[&gt;++[&lt;&lt;&lt;----&gt;&gt;<BR>&lt;&gt;&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;&lt;.+.&gt;[-]++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;.++.[-]&gt;[-]++++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;++.&gt;&gt;++[&gt;++[&gt;-&lt;-]&lt;--]<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 10:21:10 +0200 (EET)<BR>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Happy Holidays!<BR><BR>On Fri, 22 Dec 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>&gt; At 10:10 AM 12/23/2000 +1100, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;OBTrav: Do they still celebrate Christmas in the 3rd Imperium?<BR>&gt; IMTU, the Reformed Catholic Church is still around, so christmas is still<BR>&gt; celebrated on worlds where the church has a following.<BR><BR>Christmas is not just Catholic (or even Christian) feast. Finland<BR>(here it comes again B-) is mainly evangelical-lutherian (?), but<BR>Christmas is still a large part of the church year.<BR><BR>Also, we atheists celebrate it too. After all, Christmas is an ancient<BR>Finnish tradition. The christians have sadly modified and absorbed it, and<BR>our Joulupukki ("Christmas billy-goat") is nowadays very much like your<BR>Santa Claus. We do have Christmas trees and all such, probably Finnish and<BR>American/German/Newzealandian/Australian Christmas aren't too different.<BR><BR>There are some differences in Christmas traditions. Here in Finland we get<BR>our presents on the Christmas eve, and in families with children Santa<BR>Claus comes to distribute the present personally. Our christmas is also<BR>more mundane, there aren't very many Christian trappings, such as angels<BR>or Jesus. This is of course in my point of view, my parents are atheists.<BR>B-) In schools and such places there are Christian celebrations. This is<BR>of course from the reason that some 85% of Finns belong to some Christian<BR>church on another. I have performed in a Christmas Gospel myself, although<BR>I have never belonged to church. This was of some concern to my parents,<BR>as I was some six years old. <BR><BR>This tradition (school celebrations) seems to be changing, as the Moslem<BR>people here, mostly refugees and their children, don't like it much and<BR>don't want their children to participate, which is very understandable.<BR>This is a problem (or it isn't) mostly in the Helsinki region, where there<BR>are enough foreign people to have some say over communal matters.<BR><BR>Also, most of us eat pork during Christmas, although the Anglic(?)<BR>turkey is also eaten. I like pork more. We call it "Christmas Ham", it is<BR>usually the hind leg of a pig. <BR><BR>I think our Christmas is very much the same as in other Scandinavian<BR>countries, at least much of pork eaten during the Christmas season is<BR>cheap Danish (pun unintended...).<BR><BR>- -- <BR>+++++++++[&gt;+++++++++&lt;-]&gt;-.&lt;+++++[&gt;+++&lt;-]++&gt;++.&lt;++[&gt;++++&lt;-]+&gt;+.&lt;++[&gt;----<BR>&lt;-]&gt;-.&gt;+++[&gt;++++++++++&lt;-]++&gt;++pare@iki.fi&lt;+[&gt;++++&lt;-]&gt;+.-&gt;+[&gt;++++[&lt;&lt;---&gt;<BR>&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;.&gt;&gt;+++++++[&lt;++++++++++&gt;-]++++[&lt;+++++&gt;-]&lt;-.&gt;[-]&gt;+++[&gt;++[&lt;&lt;&lt;----&gt;&gt;<BR>&lt;&gt;&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;&lt;.+.&gt;[-]++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;.++.[-]&gt;[-]++++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;++.&gt;&gt;++[&gt;++[&gt;-&lt;-]&lt;--]<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 02:25:24 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: YATS.X<BR><BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Yet Another Task System number 10...and Chargen too! &lt;g&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I think Attributes and Skills should be rated on the same scale.<BR><BR>Interesting, Eris.&nbsp; Good work.<BR><BR>I do have some comments, though, and I think you've come to expect<BR>constructive, honest ones from me.<BR><BR>So, here goes...<BR><BR><BR>First off, it feels a little "clunky" because of the way you roll up<BR>attributes (roll 2 dice, add 3...and then a shift in one way or the<BR>other--that just doesn't have a clean feel to it--strange mechanics, but<BR>I understand why).&nbsp; The adding 10 to skill level seems wrong too.<BR><BR>I feel if you're going to change stats and skills, then change the whole<BR>system--not modify an old system into something that doesn't look like<BR>the original one.<BR><BR>And, I'm kinda partial to keeping Trav stats the way they are--that and<BR>skill level seem to be the one thing that has kept constant (somewhat,<BR>if you consider TNE) throughout the official versions (CT, MT, TNE, T4).<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; And there you go, Attributes and Skills are pretty much on the same<BR>&gt; scale.&nbsp; Okay, Skills tend higher, but I like competent PC's with<BR>&gt; good skills, so there!<BR><BR>Agreed.&nbsp; But, it seems a long way to go.&nbsp; Why not just use KBv2.0 which<BR>does not require you to change the way stats are done at all?<BR><BR>I guess the change in stats bothers me (although it wouldn't if we were<BR>talking about another game).<BR><BR>I didn't like TNE because they completely changed the rule system, and<BR>playing GURPS may be find for other games, but GURPS rules, to me, just<BR>aren't traveller.<BR><BR>Like the d20 in D&amp;D, there are some things that just capture the "feel"<BR>of a game.&nbsp; For me, in Traveller, it's the D6, the 1-6+ skills, the 2D6<BR>roll for stats.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Now for the Task System...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 1.&nbsp; Determine the difficulty of the task on the following scale and<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; add the associated value to the appropriate skill or attribute<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; level along with any other modifiers producing a Target Number.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; 6 Automatic<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; 4 Easy<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; 2 Routine<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; 0 Average<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; -2 Difficult<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; -4 Formidable<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; -6 Staggering<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; -8 Hopeless<BR>&gt;&nbsp; -10 Impossible<BR><BR>I like this idea.&nbsp; I wonder if something like this could be worked out<BR>keeping stats and skills as they are in Trav.<BR><BR>But, I do like the idea (and I can see that you're going to have to roll<BR>low--which is not my preference strickly for aesthetic reasons).<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Injuries:&nbsp; Why not use a STR, END, DEX like CT/MT/T4? You can,<BR><BR>&gt; you'll need to make your weapons a little more deadly...the ones in<BR>&gt; GURPS should be deadly enough for you, or just add a die to the<BR>&gt; Traveller ones.<BR><BR>Will one die do it with printed Trav stuff?<BR><BR>Another comment:&nbsp; I try to make my systems fit in perfectly with<BR>published rules.&nbsp; It seems that the one you've detailed here is<BR>requiring a lot of modification from published Trav stuff.<BR><BR>For instance, in both KB2.0 and KB3, if you're running a Trav module,<BR>you don't have to do anything with the DMs that are listed in the<BR>adventure.&nbsp; You don't have to modify listed NPC stats in order to use<BR>those systems.&nbsp; And, you don't have to do anything to weapon damage.<BR><BR>With what you've presented here, we're having to change much about the<BR>game--not just implement a different task system (it's not plug-n-play<BR>with established Trav products).<BR><BR><BR><BR>One last comment:&nbsp; I'm curious about percentage success.<BR><BR>So, an average dude (Skill-2, Stat-7) will translate, under your system,<BR>to Skill-12, Stat-10.&nbsp; Right?<BR><BR>So, his target number is 22 modified by the difficulty.&nbsp; We're rolling<BR>3D6....this average dude's got a 100% chance of making every difficulty<BR>category except Staggering, Hopeless, and Impossible?<BR><BR>That can't be.&nbsp; Did I figure something wrong with his skills and stats?<BR><BR>If I didn't, then there needs to be some work done on success chance.<BR><BR><BR>Anyway....I'm always interested in seeing new ideas and systems.&nbsp; I do<BR>really like the difficulty idea.<BR><BR>And, I'm interested to see your response to the success chance question<BR>I pose.&nbsp; I'm curious if I figured something wrong.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 23:14:59 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: ACQ was RE: BITS adventures...<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; ObTrav:&nbsp; Not every adventure has to start with the spotlight on the PCs.<BR>&gt; Little events can combine to put the characters in the wrong place at the<BR>&gt; wrong time.&nbsp; A simple misreading of a cargo label, a clerk who signs off a<BR>&gt; whole stack of customs forms without reading them because he *really* needs<BR>&gt; to go to the fresher... the devil is in the details.<BR><BR>Misreading labels on containers of chemicals can be *real* fun. So can<BR>copying info from forms onto the container (which is why many times a<BR>shipping tank will be sent back empty, rather than cleaning and<BR>relabelling it to ship something else back)<BR><BR>There's a *world* of difference between "heavy, water" and "heavy<BR>water". Or between ethane (C2H6), ethene(C2H4) and ethyne(C2H2). Or<BR>sulfurous acid and sulfuric acid. Heck the whole -ous/-ic and -ate/-ite<BR>differentiation system begs for mistakes.<BR><BR>Misread the chemical name and you'll look up the wrong Material Safety<BR>Data Sheet (MSDS) which will give the wrong handling and storage<BR>precautions. <BR><BR>Or fail to note the difference between XXXX metal and XXXX powder. Most<BR>powdered metals are *highly* flammable. Some will be stored in inert<BR>gas and ignite spontaneously upon exposure to air. So imagine the fun<BR>if the container is mislabeled (or the label is misread) and customs<BR>wants to examine the contents. :-)<BR><BR>Any ref who wants to use hazardous cargoes should check the websites<BR>that have MSDS info, and also check to see which local colleges (even<BR>community colleges) teach courses in fire safety. The college bookstore<BR>*will* have copies of the reference books that list things like<BR>hazardous chemicals, and better yet, ones that list "hazardous<BR>reactions". That one has the reactions *and describes typical incidents<BR>where folks learned about the hazard the hard way.<BR><BR>These books aren't that expensive, *especially* if you can find out<BR>when the instructor is switching to a different book, or a newer<BR>edition. The "old" books will be *severely* marked down.<BR><BR>BTW, my favorite "hazardous reaction" was where they were filling a<BR>tank trailer for a semi rig with concentrated sodium hydroxide<BR>solution. Essentially, industrial strength liquid plumber.:-)<BR><BR>They thought the tank was mild steel. It wasn't. It was aluminum. The<BR>problem is that aluminum is actually a very reactive metal. But it<BR>normally has a coating of aluminum oxide (essentially sapphire!) on it<BR>which insulates it from things like water. Strong alkali solutions will<BR>*dissolve* the oxide coat. <BR><BR>So, the sodium hydroxide solution goes into the tank, and dissolves the<BR>oxide coat. This leaves aluminum in contact with water. The aluminum<BR>grabs the oxygen from the water to form a new layer of oxide. This<BR>releases heat and hydrogen gas. And, of course, the solution dissolves<BR>the new coat...<BR><BR>So we have this tanker bubbling away madly from all the hydrogen being<BR>generated. And generating enough heat that the hydrogen ignited...<BR><BR>BTW, hydrogen flames are almost invisible in daylight...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 23:46:15 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Noble vs. military rank<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; In my experience (2Lt PWO 10/11 Hus), the most useful command that <BR>&gt; can ever be given by a junior officer is "Carry on Sergant"<BR><BR>From what I've heard, often an officer merely has to say "Sergeant!"<BR>and gesture (nod of head, or whatever) towards the mess the lower ranks<BR>have gotten into and the matter will be "dealt with".<BR><BR>Of course, this means that later on the officer will have to do<BR>something nice for the sargeant...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 23:41:42 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Walter Koenig (RE: Low standards)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; No kidding! My wife and I watch the current B5 reruns more<BR>&gt;&gt; for the special effects than the acting. We saw this<BR>&gt;&gt; week's episode in which Bester(?) (i.e. Koenig) appeared to<BR>&gt;&gt; get B5 personnel to rescue a shipload of psis from the<BR>&gt;&gt; Shadows.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I believe the B5 effects were all created using an app called Video Toast.<BR>&gt; Can Anyone confirm?<BR><BR>Video Toaster. On the Amiga. <BR><BR>But there may be hardware involved too. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 01:15:46 +1300<BR>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: re: Who Won, Who Lost<BR><BR>On 23 Dec 00, at 9:33, Mikko V. I. Parviainen wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Finn is worth ten Russian". This is of course partly a consequence of Soviet<BR>&gt; human wave tactics.<BR><BR>I just love this misunderstanding of Russian tactics. The Russians (and <BR>Soviets) before them didn't use "human wave" attacks; either in current <BR>doctrine or during the 2nd WW. The Iranians did during the Iran-Iraq war, <BR>the Chinese did up until their war with Vietnam in the late 70's, but the <BR>Russians never did. Russian doctirne attempts to minimise *overall* <BR>casualties during the course of a campaign. To this end, they are willing to <BR>accept high local casualties as long as they will lead to lower overall <BR>casualties. The officers who came up with these tactics were all junior <BR>officers during the 1st WW and the Russian Civil War and were very deeply <BR>affected by the terrible casualties of those wars (much like the British, <BR>French and Germans).<BR><BR>What confuses people are two aspects of Russian tactics. The first is <BR>massive concentration of force. The Russians are very firm believers in <BR>"Don't tap it,. thump it". The second comes from anlysis of casualties in <BR>mobile warfare. The Russians found that casualties were lowest in a mobile <BR>pursuit situation and highest in the assault of fixed positions. Therefore <BR>Russian doctrine is to rapidly move to a mobile pursuit, seize the initiative <BR>and never let it go. Under this doctrine, you don't halt an assualt on a fixed <BR>position due to heavy casualties. To do so will only require you to assault it <BR>again, quite possibly after the enemy has reinforced it; all leading to higher <BR>overall casualties.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 12:44:24 -0000<BR>From: "Stuart Ferris" &lt;stuart.ferris@virgin.net&gt;<BR>Subject: H&amp;E The Future<BR><BR>I'd like to thank everyone who offered support, words of encouragement,<BR>thanks and EVEN offers of beta testing relating to my decision to stop<BR>developing H&amp;E. I'm not going to be able to respond to everyone who mailed<BR>me, so, hopefully everyone who saw the original message will get this one.<BR><BR>I am encouraged enough that I have decided to retract my statement and WILL<BR>continue to work on the program albeit on a smaller scale. I will continue<BR>to work on the World Detail Editor and Route Finder and resolve any<BR>remaining issues.<BR><BR>At the start WBD and H&amp;E an enjoyable diversion and a challenge. I have<BR>learnt a great deal about VB and programming in the last two years. However,<BR>in the last few months though it has become like a job work. The World<BR>Detail Editor has been a complex feature to implement and it was frustrating<BR>not to receive feedback when requested. The pressures I have personally put<BR>myself under working on the program were becoming too much. I'm going to<BR>take a step back and take more relaxed attitude. I'm not going to make any<BR>further promises regarding timescales and future versions of the program<BR>will be released whenever the are ready.<BR><BR>I'd also like to take the opportunity to wish everyone a Merry Christmas and<BR>a Happy New year.<BR><BR>Stuart Ferris<BR>stuart.ferris@virgin.net<BR>http://freespace.virgin.net/stuart.ferris/index.htm<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 07:48:18 -0600<BR>From: "Shimmergloom" &lt;dragon@mhtc.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: H&amp;E The Future<BR><BR>tosses a virtual rose onto the stage in celebration of the speech and the<BR>descision.&nbsp; (sp?)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 09:06:58 -0500<BR>From: "Daniel Phelps" &lt;phelpsd@gate.net&gt;<BR>Subject: HazMat was ACQ was RE: BITS adventures...<BR><BR>Was written:<BR><BR>&gt;Any ref who wants to use hazardous cargoes should check the websites<BR>&gt;that have MSDS info, and also check to see which local colleges (even<BR>&gt;community colleges) teach courses in fire safety. The college bookstore<BR>&gt;*will* have copies of the reference books that list things like<BR>&gt;hazardous chemicals, and better yet, ones that list "hazardous<BR>&gt;reactions". That one has the reactions *and describes typical incidents<BR>&gt;where folks learned about the hazard the hard way.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;These books aren't that expensive, *especially* if you can find out<BR>&gt;when the instructor is switching to a different book, or a newer<BR>&gt;edition. The "old" books will be *severely* marked down.<BR><BR><BR>The little yellow DOT handbook is really great for general use.&nbsp; It lists<BR>chemicals by placard number or name/descriptor keyed to generic instruction<BR>pages telling what to do or what not to do in case of a spill.<BR><BR>The incidents that stick in my mind are the Texas City explosion, an<BR>anhydrous Ammonia spill on the 610 loop in Houston and a Florida incident.<BR><BR>The Texas City, Texas&nbsp; explosion was actually a series of explosions<BR>involving a burning cargo ship filled with ammonium nitrate.&nbsp; Every duty<BR>fire fighter and police officer was killed and large portions of the town<BR>was leveled.&nbsp; The explosions were on the order of a pony keg nuke.&nbsp; Lots of<BR>documentation regarding this incident is available.<BR><BR>The anhydrous ammonia spill was an incident in which a tanker truck on an<BR>elevated road way went over the side and landed on a surface street at<BR>ground level.&nbsp; The gas pooled as a dense cloud and people drove into the<BR>cloud.&nbsp; First their cars died then they did.<BR><BR>The Florida incident involved the mixing of incompatible chemicals.&nbsp; A large<BR>company with facilities in Miami went bankrupt.&nbsp; In shutting down their<BR>operations drum after drum of miscellaneous materials were poured into a<BR>large tanker truck, read cocktail shaker.&nbsp; The truck headed down the road<BR>for disposal out of state.&nbsp; About six or seven hours into the trip the tank<BR>vented and took off like a rocket sled.&nbsp; It traveled about a quarter of a<BR>mile before it stopped.<BR><BR>Dan<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 14:17 +0000 (GMT)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: H&amp;E The Future<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;003201c06cde$157061c0$2b84fc3e@maincomputer&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts, especially Stuart.<BR><BR>That is VERY good news.<BR><BR>Even though I don't use the program myself, I am currently revising the <BR>'System Resources' pages for the RPGA UK website and am very pleased that <BR>I will be able to point interested parties at 'Heaven &amp; Earth' in the <BR>future.<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal. <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 14:17 +0000 (GMT)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: TRAVELLER scenarios<BR><BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>I know you are an inventive lot, so...<BR><BR>The UK branch of the Role Playing Gamers Association has revised the <BR>system for acquiring tournament scenarios, and we are on the hunt for <BR>more!<BR><BR>Full details are at http://rpga.ukonline.co.uk/scenarios/index.htm but I <BR>shall summarise: -<BR><BR>We need scenarios for 6 (pre-generated) characters which will run <BR>comfortably in a 4-hour 'slot' (approx. 3 hours play, the rest being prep <BR>&amp; admin time). <BR><BR>Submission for any system are welcome, various people are looking after <BR>different systems - any system not listed we still are likely to find <BR>someone who can cope with it, I ran out of space on the webpage to list <BR>everything we can cope with!<BR><BR>We are happy to accept submissions from anywhere, not just the UK. At the <BR>moment we can only offer you fame - but who knows, maybe some day a spot <BR>of fortune as well.<BR><BR>For my sins I look after TRAVELLER submissions. Note that there is a <BR>long-standing tradition of RPGA UK using scenarios supplied by BITS for <BR>Gen Con UK; I hope that this will continue and will be working with them <BR>to this end (I am also a BITS member, and proud possessor of one of the <BR>'nifty black tees' they handed out at Gen Con UK 2000!). However, we <BR>require scenarios for conventions year-round; and whoever you are, BITS <BR>and I will combine to look at your submission too.<BR><BR>So put some of the holidays to good use and come up with an idea or two <BR>for me :-)<BR><BR>Merry Christmas and a Happy New Millennium.<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 14:17 +0000 (GMT)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: Noble vs. military rank<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;01222.234615.9X1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; In my experience (2Lt PWO 10/11 Hus), the most useful command that <BR>&gt;&gt; can ever be given by a junior officer is "Carry on Sergant"<BR><BR>&gt;From what I've heard, often an officer merely has to say "Sergeant!"<BR>&gt;and gesture (nod of head, or whatever) towards the mess the lower ranks<BR>&gt;have gotten into and the matter will be "dealt with".<BR><BR>All too true...<BR><BR>&gt;Of course, this means that later on the officer will have to do<BR>&gt;something nice for the sargeant...<BR><BR>Hmm. Sometimes. Depends on the officer.<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR>Former Sergeant, 22nd (Cheshire) Regiment, British Army.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 15:11:07 GMT<BR>From: newbomb@home.com (The Right Reverend Newbomb Turk)<BR>Subject: Re: Need Aramanx stuff<BR><BR>On Fri, 22 Dec 2000 00:02:48 -0800, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Anybody know of any web pages out there with (any type of) details on<BR>&gt;Aramanx?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I think one of the sample mercenary tickets in Book 4:&nbsp; Mercenary is for<BR>&gt;Aramanx.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>From my notes....<BR><BR>Aramax has a Merc ticket (in Book 4). It also is mentioned in the<BR>Traveller Adventure pages 71 and 103. There is an amber zone in<BR>Journal 24 as well (Embassy at Arms - pg 9)<BR><BR>I have a note that the planet is mentioned in Adv 2, but I cannot find<BR>it.<BR><BR>There is a&nbsp; capsule discription of all worlds in this sector, in the<BR>Traveller Adventure.<BR><BR>Happy Hunting.<BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 07:27:02 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Need Aramanx stuff<BR><BR>Aramanx is also listed in Challenge 61, "The Equalizer Project."&nbsp; The<BR>article includes maps of the planet, detailed maps of one of the<BR>continents, as well as background on the military and political situations.<BR><BR>=====<BR>Gerry Harris<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.<BR>http://shopping.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3456<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Saturday, December 23 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3457<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: The Dweaded Piwacy Thwead<BR>Re: Semi-OT: New Honor Harrington story<BR>Re: The Dweaded Piwacy Thwead<BR>[BITS] May the Forks be with you<BR>Re: ACQ was RE: BITS adventures...<BR>RE: Alienage (was: Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR>RE: Alienage (was: Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR>Re: Low standards<BR>Re: Low standards<BR>Re: Aliens (was Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR>Re: ACQ was RE: BITS adventures...<BR>Re: Low standards<BR>Re: H&amp;E The Future<BR>&lt;no subject&gt;<BR>They killed Kenny!<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3456<BR>Re: Aliens (was Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR>Re: Aramanx<BR>Re: YATS.X<BR>Re: YATS.X<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 11:09:09 EST<BR>From: TOCoons@cs.com<BR>Subject: Re: The Dweaded Piwacy Thwead<BR><BR>"Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt; writes:<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; At the moment I am detailing a subsector in Core in the mature 3I (GT<BR>&gt;&nbsp; timeline):&nbsp; the one with Depot/Core in it.&nbsp; I am having a bit of trouble<BR>&gt;&nbsp; trying to justify "typical' scenarios within a single jump of one of the<BR>&gt;&nbsp; biggest concentrations of military forces in the Imperium...<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR><BR>I saw a reference in GT:Far Trader where GT:Behind the Claw has random ship <BR>encounter tables based on the size of a trade route a world is on. I don't <BR>have BtC for comparison or details, but the idea is reasonable. The very <BR>presence of a high population, high-tech world boosts both the system traffic <BR>originating at nearby worlds and the transient traffic going through them.&nbsp; <BR>The transient military traffic alone near a depot or naval base should <BR>encourage those whose ethical challenges include a disposition to violence to <BR>go elsewhere.&nbsp; If I were making up encounter tables, I'd seriously consider <BR>doing something like TNE did with its trade goods tables. <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 11:09:11 EST<BR>From: TOCoons@cs.com<BR>Subject: Re: Semi-OT: New Honor Harrington story<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 15:42:47 -0500<BR>&gt;&nbsp; From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; Subject: Re: Semi-OT: New Honor Harrington story<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; http://www.baen.com/<BR><BR>Now that I've finally read most of the Honor Harrington series, I like it. <BR>But I still think the Imperium is more like the Familias Regnant in Elizabeth <BR>Moon's stories. More corporate and noble politicking, more worlds to visit, <BR>and more mopery and dopery in the spaceways. YMMV.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 11:09:08 EST<BR>From: TOCoons@cs.com<BR>Subject: Re: The Dweaded Piwacy Thwead<BR><BR>In a message dated 12/22/00 7:33:55 PM Mountain Standard Time, <BR>owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR><BR>&gt; ate: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 18:04:35 -0600<BR>&gt;&nbsp; From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; Subject: Re: The Dweaded Piwacy Thwead<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; Alan Bradley wrote:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &gt; From: TOCoons@cs.com<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &gt; First of all, to lay the ground rules, MTU is not the mature 3I and <BR>most<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &gt; of the arguments against career piracy don't apply.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; At the moment I am detailing a subsector in Core in the mature 3I (GT<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; timeline):&nbsp; the one with Depot/Core in it.&nbsp; I am having a bit of trouble<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; trying to justify "typical' scenarios within a single jump of one of the<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; biggest concentrations of military forces in the Imperium...<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; Ah, but that also makes it one of the biggest concentrations of military<BR>&gt;&nbsp; _inertia_ in the Imperium.&nbsp; After all, the fleet commander there (quite<BR>&gt;&nbsp; possibly a political hack, rather than a "fighting admiral") may not be<BR>&gt;&nbsp; willing to send portions of the Imperium's primary stragegic reserve<BR>&gt;&nbsp; haring off after some quarter-credit smugglers.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; "What if the fleet's needed for a _real_ situation?&nbsp; I can't scatter my<BR>&gt;&nbsp; assets across half the subsector chasing petty criminals!&nbsp; It would take<BR>&gt;&nbsp; _months_ to reassemble my forces to respond to a crisis, if I have ships<BR>&gt;&nbsp; strewn about the subsector like so many piles of poni droppings! <BR>&gt;&nbsp; Concentration, I tell you, massed forces hitting hard - that's how you<BR>&gt;&nbsp; win wars!"<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR><BR>IMTU, that was the prevailing mindset in the Sylean Federation Navy before <BR>Cleon. <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; "Admiral, you have three choices. First, you can start taking this <BR>undeclared guerilla wafare against our shipping seriously, and do your job by <BR>developing doctrine, tactics, and forces to deal with this kind of enemy. Or <BR>hasn't it occurred to you that some of our near neigbors who can't afford to <BR>build battleships and cruisers can afford to sponsor pirates and privateers?&nbsp; <BR>Second, you can admit you're not the man for the job and step aside for <BR>someone who will. Third, you can passively resist or actively fight me and <BR>force me to remove you from command. No, there's a fourth. If chasing pirates <BR>is beneath the Navy's dignity, I could give the job, and the starships, <BR>weapons, and funds to do it, to some other agency. Why don't you think about <BR>it, and let me know what you decide by tomorrow at the latest?"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 15:44:32 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: [BITS] May the Forks be with you<BR><BR>BITS - British Isles Traveller Support<BR>http://www.bits.org.uk<BR><BR>"May the Forks be with you" - "Something Wonderful is Going to Happen"<BR><BR>Psst! - Remember the turn of the Millennium last year (*) and the <BR>wonderful thing that happened for two weeks at the BITS website?<BR><BR>Remember that certain download? An Acrobat file full of Christmas <BR>cheer and fun...<BR><BR>Well, something similar may well appear this evening for a limited, <BR>two week, theatrical release.<BR><BR>Ahem. "I was not here. I did not say this. The games must flow...."<BR><BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>(*) Hans, here's a last chance at a comment on the *real* millennium date ;-)<BR><BR>- -----<BR>http://www.bits.org.uk/&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.core.org.uk/<BR>Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved. Used under permission of licence.<BR>BITS, CORE and the associated logos are trademarks of BITS UK Ltd.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 15:47:55 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: ACQ was RE: BITS adventures...<BR><BR>At 21:35 -0500 21/12/00,&nbsp; "Douglas E. Berry" <BR>&lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;At 07:17 PM 12/21/2000 +0000, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;BTW Kenneth if Doug doesn't respond soon on ACQ I will.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Dom, remember I work for an airport shuttle company.&nbsp; This week I'm having<BR>&gt;trouble remembering that I co-wrote the damn thing, let alone being able to<BR>&gt;give details about it.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Shit.&nbsp; Time to go back to work.&nbsp; *whimper*<BR><BR>Doug - is it worse as a dispatcher than a driver?<BR><BR>:-/<BR><BR>Have a look at the BITS website over Christmas and download something <BR>for some deserved Cristmas fun...<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 15:58:08 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Alienage (was: Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR><BR>At 09:43 -0500 22/12/00,&nbsp;&nbsp; "Paul Drye" &lt;p_drye@hotmail.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;Is 'Nuke' an official verb in English?<BR>&gt;For it to be official, we'd need some actual officials in charge of the<BR>&gt;matter first...and as has been pointed out repeatedly recently, the<BR>&gt;US/Canada/Australia isn't France....<BR><BR>The previous poster said 'English', not 'Colonial' ;-) &lt;grin, duck, run&gt;<BR><BR>I'd check out the Oxford English Dictionary if you want to be sure...<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 12:13:24 -0500<BR>From: "Paul Drye" &lt;p_drye@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Alienage (was: Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR><BR>&gt;I'd check out the Oxford English Dictionary if you want to be sure...<BR><BR>The OED is nothing more than an educated opinion. Compare and contrast with <BR>the INaLF -- notably the "N" in that acronym -- and you'll see where I'm <BR>driving.<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Paul Drye<BR><BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 12:17:52 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>At 8:12 PM -0500 12/22/00, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Go rent Dogma now.&nbsp; Best examination of the nature of faith vs. the ideals<BR>&gt;of a church since St. Thomas Aquinas went to his final rest.<BR><BR>I've heard good things along those lines about _Dogma_ a lot, it's <BR>true.&nbsp; It's just that I have zero interest, either way, in questions <BR>of religious faith and ideals of churches... and *ver*y low tolerance <BR>for any of the actors I *did* know were in it ;)<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 12:18:54 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>At 8:36 PM -0800 12/22/00, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Actually, it occurs to me that Jim Carrey is the *perfect* choice to<BR>&gt;play a hiver.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Nah, it would never work.&nbsp; Hivers don't do any audio communication, <BR>and they'd never be able to get Carrey to shut up.<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 12:23:18 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Aliens (was Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR><BR>At 11:21 PM -0500 12/22/00, knightsky@juno.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Ah well, to each their own.&nbsp; For me, the fact that (do I really need a<BR>&gt;spoiler space for this?) Hicks &amp; Newt were killed before the opening<BR>&gt;credits could end really did *not* endear this film to me.<BR><BR>!!!!!&nbsp; Talk about alien contact... we ain't from around the same <BR>space, the two of us.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; The rest of<BR>&gt;the story did nothing to improve my opinion of the film, but merely<BR>&gt;induced cases of projectile vomiting and explosive diarrhea onto my<BR>&gt;person, not unlike the American theatrical release of Highlander II.<BR><BR>Well, I guess inter-species understanding is possible after all... <BR>agree with you there --<BR><BR>&gt;Out of curiousity, have you ever read the alternate script for A3 written<BR>&gt;(supposedly) by William Gibson?&nbsp; I much prefer it to what was released<BR>&gt;theatrically (obviously!),<BR><BR>- -- just before discovering an all-new, even deeper pit of <BR>unbridgeable alienness ;)&nbsp; Yes, I read it, and thought it was a joke <BR>at first.&nbsp; I thought it was terrible, really terrible.&nbsp; Insultingly <BR>so.<BR><BR>&gt;and it also includes what is one of my<BR>&gt;favorite movie lines, which is impressive considering that it was never<BR>&gt;filmed!<BR><BR>Which one was that?<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 09:22:40<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: ACQ was RE: BITS adventures...<BR><BR>At 03:47 PM 12/23/2000 +0000, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Doug - is it worse as a dispatcher than a driver?<BR><BR>It's different...<BR><BR>As a driver, the MDT *beeps* and you scream "six stops, seven guests, due<BR>right now?&nbsp; Aieee!!" and drive like a maniac already working on your<BR>platitudes, hoping the police are elsewhere.<BR><BR>As a dispatcher, you look at the run monitor and scream "15 runs in the<BR>red? 12 more due now, and I don't have any vans?&nbsp; And what in the hell is<BR>that moron in 522 doing? Aieee!!" and answer phone calls from irate guests,<BR>assuring them that a van that is still 10 miles away will be there within<BR>'a few minutes.'<BR><BR>The important difference is that as a dispatcher I have my manager and our<BR>res agent to scream along with me.<BR><BR>&gt;Have a look at the BITS website over Christmas and download something <BR>&gt;for some deserved Cristmas fun...<BR><BR>I shall.&nbsp; Luckily, I'm off until Christmas Eve now.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 09:29:58<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>At 12:17 PM 12/23/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;I've heard good things along those lines about _Dogma_ a lot, it's <BR>&gt;true.&nbsp; It's just that I have zero interest, either way, in questions <BR>&gt;of religious faith and ideals of churches... and *ver*y low tolerance <BR>&gt;for any of the actors I *did* know were in it ;)<BR><BR>C'mon, George Carlin as a Cardinal of the Holy Roman Church?&nbsp; That alone is<BR>worth a trip to Blockbuster!<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 11:53:55 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: H&amp;E The Future<BR><BR>Stuart Ferris wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I am encouraged enough that I have decided to retract my statement and WILL<BR>&gt; continue to work on the program albeit on a smaller scale. I will continue<BR>&gt; to work on the World Detail Editor and Route Finder and resolve any<BR>&gt; remaining issues.<BR><BR>OUTSTANDING!<BR><BR>I applaud your decision.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 10:13:31 -0800<BR>From: Tod Glenn &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: &lt;no subject&gt;<BR><BR>Jesse et all,<BR><BR>Does this qualify for the Famille Spofulam catalogue?<BR><BR>See http://weapons.travellercentral.com/heavy/minigun_marder.html<BR><BR>(I love photoshop)<BR><BR>Hey, I'm even starting to add stats?!<BR><BR>Tod<BR>- --<BR>When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend"<BR>- -- <BR>Tod L Glenn<BR>webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.solsec.org<BR>http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>http://travellerguns.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 13:21:44 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: Michael Houghton &lt;herveus@Radix.Net&gt;<BR>Subject: They killed Kenny!<BR><BR>Howdy!<BR><BR>Dredging up a long ago thread:<BR><BR>Bozhe moi! Oni ubbivayat Kenni Ublyodoki!<BR><BR>Da!<BR><BR>yours,<BR>Michael<BR>- -- <BR>Michael and MJ Houghton&nbsp;&nbsp; | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly<BR>herveus@radix.net&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; | White Wolf and the Phoenix<BR>Bowie, MD, USA&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 13:24:45 EST<BR>From: JDoch226@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3456<BR><BR>In a message dated 12/23/00 7:37:54 AM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR><BR>&lt;&lt; Anybody know of any web pages out there with (any type of) details on<BR>&gt;Aramanx? &gt;&gt;<BR><BR>I seem to remember an index somewhere that listed everyplace a system was <BR>mentioned in published Traveller material.&nbsp; Now I have no idea where I saw <BR>this.&nbsp;&nbsp; Am I hallucinating again?<BR>Jed Docherty<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 13:30:54 -0500<BR>From: knightsky@juno.com<BR>Subject: Re: Aliens (was Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR><BR>On Sat, 23 Dec 2000 12:23:18 -0500 Kenji Schwarz<BR>&lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt; writes:<BR>&gt; At 11:21 PM -0500 12/22/00, knightsky@juno.com wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;Ah well, to each their own.&nbsp; For me, the fact that (do I really <BR>&gt; need a<BR>&gt; &gt;spoiler space for this?) Hicks &amp; Newt were killed before the <BR>&gt; opening<BR>&gt; &gt;credits could end really did *not* endear this film to me.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; !!!!!&nbsp; Talk about alien contact... we ain't from around the same <BR>&gt; space, the two of us.<BR><BR>Well, it would pretty boring if everyone agreed all the time.&nbsp; I know<BR>*my* tastes are pretty skewered, and I certainly don't expect others to<BR>automatically like (or dislike) the same things I do.<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;and it also includes what is one of my<BR>&gt; &gt;favorite movie lines, which is impressive considering that it was <BR>&gt; never<BR>&gt; &gt;filmed!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Which one was that?<BR><BR>Arrgh!&nbsp; Of *course* my copy of the script has now went missing!<BR><BR>Okay, from memory, so I'm undoubtedly screwing this up somewhat:&nbsp; Some<BR>point after Ripley &amp; Newt have headed off for Earth, Hicks &amp; Bishop are<BR>with some local officials from whatever planet they're on, discussing the<BR>fact that there appears to be an Alien infestation in one of the towns on<BR>the planet.&nbsp; While the locals are discussing options, Bishop says<BR>something to the effect of 'drop a nuke on the town.'&nbsp; As the locals are<BR>horrified, Hicks asks, "I thought you were programmed to preserve human<BR>life?"<BR><BR>Bishop pauses, then replies, "I'm taking the long view."<BR><BR><BR><BR>(heading down to Floriday for XMas, be back in a few days)<BR><BR>Perry<BR>"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>________________________________________________________________<BR>GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!<BR>Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!<BR>Join Juno today!&nbsp; For your FREE software, visit:<BR>http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 12:36:36 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Aramanx<BR><BR>JDoch226@aol.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &lt;&lt; Anybody know of any web pages out there with (any type of) details on<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;Aramanx? &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I seem to remember an index somewhere that listed everyplace a system was<BR>&gt; mentioned in published Traveller material.&nbsp; Now I have no idea where I saw<BR>&gt; this.&nbsp;&nbsp; Am I hallucinating again?<BR>&gt; Jed Docherty<BR><BR>Thanks to all for the published info...greatly appreciated.<BR><BR>Just FYI:&nbsp; I'm also interested in non-official write ups on Aramanx done by<BR>other GMs.&nbsp; If you've created anything about the world, or know of a web site<BR>that details GM created info, I'd like to look at it.<BR><BR>Thanks again,<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 13:48:52 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: YATS.X<BR><BR>On 12/23/00 at 02:25 AM,&nbsp; Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Yet Another Task System number 10...and Chargen too! &lt;g&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; I think Attributes and Skills should be rated on the same scale.<BR><BR>&gt;Interesting, Eris.&nbsp; Good work.<BR><BR>Thanks, I thought I should give you a "roll low" system to<BR>berate...I thought about throwing some non-d6's, but decided that<BR>was too much for the Christmas Season.&nbsp; &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;I do have some comments, though, and I think you've come to expect<BR>&gt;constructive, honest ones from me.<BR><BR>Of course.<BR><BR>&gt;So, here goes...<BR><BR>&gt;First off, it feels a little "clunky" because of the way you roll<BR>&gt;up attributes (roll 2 dice, add 3...and then a shift in one way or<BR>&gt;the other--that just doesn't have a clean feel to it--strange<BR>&gt;mechanics, but I understand why).&nbsp; The adding 10 to skill level<BR>&gt;seems wrong too.<BR><BR>That doesn't surprise me.&nbsp; &lt;g&gt; I wanted the base at 10 because of<BR>the distribution of a 3d6 roll.&nbsp; The Attribute process is also going<BR>to be very familiar to the GT folks, seeing as it almost perfectly<BR>matches what you get in the GT, 2ed.&nbsp; The skills are normed on 10,<BR>so that a Skill-3 = 13 and you can use the ones digit to tell what<BR>level the skill is.&nbsp; &lt;g&gt; The numbers you get for skills are similar<BR>to those you would get for "normal people" in GURPS, so they will<BR>feel okay to the GURPS side of the asile...I think.&nbsp; Of course,<BR>rolling for them will make them go all ickey. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;I feel if you're going to change stats and skills, then change the<BR>&gt;whole system--not modify an old system into something that doesn't<BR>&gt;look like the original one.<BR><BR>&gt;And, I'm kinda partial to keeping Trav stats the way they are--that<BR>&gt;and skill level seem to be the one thing that has kept constant<BR>&gt;(somewhat, if you consider TNE) throughout the official versions<BR>&gt;(CT, MT, TNE, T4).<BR><BR>For better or worse.&nbsp; Some think for worse, you think for better,<BR>I'm ambivilent about it. YMMV, right?<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; And there you go, Attributes and Skills are pretty much on the same<BR>&gt;&gt; scale.&nbsp; Okay, Skills tend higher, but I like competent PC's with<BR>&gt;&gt; good skills, so there!<BR><BR>&gt;Agreed.&nbsp; But, it seems a long way to go.&nbsp; Why not just use KBv2.0<BR>&gt;which does not require you to change the way stats are done at all?<BR><BR>This way the Attributes and Skills are NOT linked at all, it fits<BR>pretty well with GURPS stuff already published, and I figured it<BR>would get the goats of almost all camps.&nbsp; Blame my namesake for<BR>it.&lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;I guess the change in stats bothers me (although it wouldn't if we<BR>&gt;were talking about another game).<BR><BR>&gt;I didn't like TNE because they completely changed the rule system,<BR>&gt;and playing GURPS may be find for other games, but GURPS rules, to<BR>&gt;me, just aren't traveller.<BR><BR>I know, we've had that conversation before.&nbsp; Personally, I like TNE<BR>a lot.&nbsp; The d20 doesn't bother me at all.&nbsp; My biggest problems with<BR>TNE are that the Attributes and Skills aren't on the same scale and<BR>you add them so Atts are much more important, and the<BR>damage/wounding system, I've got fixes for that, too, but I know you<BR>wouldn't like them either.&nbsp; &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;Like the d20 in D&amp;D, there are some things that just capture the<BR>&gt;"feel" of a game.&nbsp; For me, in Traveller, it's the D6, the 1-6+<BR>&gt;skills, the 2D6 roll for stats.<BR><BR>For Traveller, I like that too, *but* not everyone does and even you<BR>show that with your "handfull of dice" systems.&nbsp; &lt;g&gt; If you want<BR>d6's only, 1 to 6+ Skills, and 2d6 Attributes, then a corrected and<BR>tweeked MT *is* the way to go.&nbsp; Regardless of which generation it<BR>might be, MT can be fast, easy to use, and it works...and is<BR>definitively Traveller.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Now for the Task System...<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; 1.&nbsp; Determine the difficulty of the task on the following scale and<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; add the associated value to the appropriate skill or attribute<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; level along with any other modifiers producing a Target Number.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; 6 Automatic<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; 4 Easy<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; 2 Routine<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; 0 Average<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; -2 Difficult<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; -4 Formidable<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; -6 Staggering<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; -8 Hopeless<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; -10 Impossible<BR><BR>&gt;I like this idea.&nbsp; I wonder if something like this could be worked<BR>&gt;out keeping stats and skills as they are in Trav.<BR><BR>Oh, sure!&nbsp; I use something like this in the "almost completely CT"<BR>game I'm running.&nbsp; You don't know about my RDeep game, I don't<BR>think.&nbsp; You weren't on the list when it started last spring.&nbsp; It is<BR>a PBEM set in Reaver's Deep during early "Hard Times."&nbsp; I wanted<BR>this game to be classic in look, feel and operation, so I'm using CT<BR>with a simplied task system tacked on.&nbsp; Here you go...<BR><BR>Generating the Character<BR><BR>Attributes:&nbsp; Normal CT, but also note Stat/3, dn as an Attribute<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Level (note you use this along, not with a<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; skill).<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>Skills:&nbsp; As Normal in CT, but you get 1 per year up to a INT+EDU+DEX<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; limit and the Ref gets to say yah or nay on everything.<BR><BR>Task System<BR><BR>1.&nbsp; Determine the difficulty of the Task, and note the Target Number<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; from the table below.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>&nbsp; Target&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; CBT/Lock&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Detection<BR>&nbsp; Number&nbsp; Description&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Range&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Range<BR>&nbsp; --------------------------------------------------<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Automatic<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Very Easy<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Easy&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Point Blank <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Very Routine&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Routine&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Very Short&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 7&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Average&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 8&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Difficult&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Point Blank&nbsp;&nbsp; Short&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 9&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Very Difficult&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; 10&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Formidable&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Very Short&nbsp; &nbsp; Medium&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; 11&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Very Formidable&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; 12&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Staggering&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Short&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Long&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; 13&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Very Staggering&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; 14&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Hopeless&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Medium&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Very Long&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; 15&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Very Hopeless&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; 16&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Impossible&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Long&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Extreme&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; 17&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; 18&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Very Long&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; 19&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; 20&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Extreme&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR><BR>(It's easy for old CT'ers.&nbsp; I just remember 6+ is Routine, 7+ is<BR>&nbsp; Average and 8+ is Difficult, and mostly everything goes in twos<BR>&nbsp; with "very's" in between.&nbsp; &lt;g&gt; As for the ranges, every<BR>&nbsp; sensor/weapon has it's on set of range and I just remember that a<BR>&nbsp; combat/lock sensor task is two full levels harder than a simple<BR>&nbsp; detection.)<BR><BR>2.&nbsp; Roll 2d6.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 2a.&nbsp; Option:&nbsp; If the roll is below an appropriate Attribute the<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Ref picks for this task give a +1 DM to the roll, and (also<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; optional) if the roll is more than 4 over the Attribute<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; give a -1 DM to the roll.&nbsp; IOW's high Attributes help, low<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Attributes hurt, but only a little.&nbsp; [Got this idea from a<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; JTAS article, and I've used it inconsistantly so far.]<BR><BR>3.&nbsp; Add an appropriate skill OR attribute level, and any other DM's<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; determined by the Ref, to the roll.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>4.&nbsp; If the total is GE the Target number the task succeeds, otherwise<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; it fails.&nbsp; Option:&nbsp; The amount by which it succeeds or fails<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; may be used to determine how well or poorly you did.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>Other than this, and adding sensor skills and tasks, CT tastes<BR>great AND is less filling! &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;But, I do like the idea (and I can see that you're going to have to<BR>&gt;roll low--which is not my preference strickly for aesthetic<BR>&gt;reasons).<BR><BR>That's mainly why I posted it. ;-p<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Injuries:&nbsp; Why not use a STR, END, DEX like CT/MT/T4? You can,<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; you'll need to make your weapons a little more deadly...the ones in<BR>&gt;&gt; GURPS should be deadly enough for you, or just add a die to the<BR>&gt;&gt; Traveller ones.<BR><BR>&gt;Will one die do it with printed Trav stuff?<BR><BR>It should.&nbsp; Gurps weapons, on the personal level, seem to be about<BR>1d6 higher.&nbsp; For weapon/ship class weapons it won't matter.&nbsp; GURPS<BR>doesn't use logs so you get *lots* and LOTS of dice.&nbsp; &lt;g&gt; A ship<BR>laser might be 5dx100, so adding 1d doesn't matter much, and when<BR>your PC gets hit by that 5dx100 laser you have *no* doubt as to the<BR>effect.&nbsp; Frankly, IMO, this beats the heck out of the way Traveller<BR>deals scale on weapons and armor.<BR><BR>&gt;With what you've presented here, we're having to change much about<BR>&gt;the game--not just implement a different task system (it's not<BR>&gt;plug-n-play with established Trav products).<BR><BR>Of course!&nbsp; My philosophy is if you're going to tinker, TINKER!&nbsp; &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;One last comment:&nbsp; I'm curious about percentage success.<BR><BR>&gt;So, an average dude (Skill-2, Stat-7) will translate, under your<BR>&gt;system, to Skill-12, Stat-10.&nbsp; Right?<BR><BR>&gt;So, his target number is 22 modified by the difficulty.&nbsp; We're<BR>&gt;rolling 3D6....this average dude's got a 100% chance of making<BR>&gt;every difficulty category except Staggering, Hopeless, and<BR>&gt;Impossible?<BR><BR>Nah!&nbsp; Don't add the Stat and Skill.&nbsp; &lt;g&gt; It's stat OR skill.<BR>Average dude has a 12 on a Skill and a 10 on a Stat, and never the<BR>twain shall meet.&nbsp; For an Average Task (-0), he rolls 12- (74%) if<BR>it is a Skill roll or 10- (50%) if it is a Stat roll.<BR><BR>I also like Fudge...but I'll be charitible and won't post anything<BR>about that right now.&nbsp; &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 14:14:46 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: YATS.X<BR><BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;Interesting, Eris.&nbsp; Good work.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Thanks, I thought I should give you a "roll low" system to<BR>&gt; berate...I thought about throwing some non-d6's, but decided that<BR>&gt; was too much for the Christmas Season.&nbsp; &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>I wasn't berating you!&nbsp; I was just giving you an honest look at what you had posted!<BR><BR>I hope you were not offended by anything I said, because I certainly did not mean it like that.<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; I wanted the base at 10 because of<BR>&gt; the distribution of a 3d6 roll.<BR><BR>I do understand that.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; The Attribute process is also going<BR>&gt; to be very familiar to the GT folks, seeing as it almost perfectly<BR>&gt; matches what you get in the GT, 2ed.<BR><BR>That could be my problem.&nbsp; I've never perused GURPS (why the built in aversion to it since the 1980's,<BR>I don't know...but I feel it slipping away a bit...meaning I'll probably look at it one day, whereas<BR>before, I wouldn't even consider it).<BR><BR><BR>&gt; YMMV, right?<BR><BR>You milage my very?<BR><BR>Yes.<BR><BR>As I stated in the introduction to KB3, no matter how brilliant (or not so brilliant) your work is,<BR>somebody will bitch.<BR><BR>I guess I bitched.<BR><BR>8-&gt;<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; If you want<BR>&gt; d6's only, 1 to 6+ Skills, and 2d6 Attributes, then a corrected and<BR>&gt; tweeked MT *is* the way to go.&nbsp; Regardless of which generation it<BR>&gt; might be, MT can be fast, easy to use, and it works...and is<BR>&gt; definitively Traveller.<BR><BR>MT *is* Traveller, and CT defines it.&nbsp; But you don't think T4 captured the feel eventhough it was<BR>broke?<BR><BR>I think T4 did a great job (just an incomplete job).&nbsp; T4 feels very Traveller to me--thus so does both<BR>KBv2 and KB3.<BR><BR>I don't mind the 2D6 systems.&nbsp; I even like them.<BR><BR>The problem I have with them is that your characters aren't defining your rolls--they're modifying<BR>them.&nbsp; T4 took another step and let a character define the roll (not just add a modifier to a random<BR>throw), and, as I've said before, I like how T4 lets you gain benefit from every level of stat--not<BR>just a portion.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; (It's easy for old CT'ers.&nbsp; I just remember 6+ is Routine, 7+ is<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Average and 8+ is Difficult, and mostly everything goes in twos<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; with "very's" in between.<BR><BR>I like it.&nbsp; It reminds me of Azhanti High Lightning.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Nah!&nbsp; Don't add the Stat and Skill.&nbsp; &lt;g&gt; It's stat OR skill.<BR>&gt; Average dude has a 12 on a Skill and a 10 on a Stat, and never the<BR>&gt; twain shall meet.<BR><BR>So...a player can *pick* using a stat if it is higher than his skill?<BR><BR>Or, does a player have to use the skill, defaulting to the stat if he has no appropriate skill?<BR><BR>What if one is higher than the other?&nbsp; Like a guy with Stat 13 and Skill 12...does he have to go with<BR>the skill on a throw?<BR><BR>And, are stats largely unused under the system unless no skill is available?<BR><BR>If you are a skill 12 with a low stat of 6, do you have the same chance to succeed as a character with<BR>a skill 12 and a high stat of 18?<BR><BR><BR>&gt; I also like Fudge...but I'll be charitible and won't post anything<BR>&gt; about that right now.&nbsp; &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>I've heard about Fudge, albeit, I don't know much about it.&nbsp; I am interested in it though.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3457<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-ye03.mx.aol.com (rly-ye03.mail.aol.com [172.18.151.200]) by air-ye04.mail.aol.com (v77.14) with ESMTP; Sat, 23 Dec 2000 15:22:14 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-ye03.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Sat, 23 Dec 2000 15:21:21 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id PAA07898;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Sat, 23 Dec 2000 15:16:45 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Sat, 23 Dec 2000 15:16:38 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id PAA07864<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Sat, 23 Dec 2000 15:16:38 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 15:16:38 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012232016.PAA07864@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3457<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Saturday, December 23 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3458<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: YATS.X<BR>Re: H&amp;E The Future<BR>Re: YATS.X<BR>Re: YATS.X<BR>Ask(ed by) Freelance Traveller: 400-td T-Class CP Patrol Cruiser<BR>Re: JoaT (Was: Re: Tasks with persistant causes)<BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>needless offensive nationalism<BR>Re: JoaT (Was: Re: Tasks with persistant causes)<BR>[BITS] Christmas and New Year Fun Special now out<BR>Shutting down<BR>Re: YATS.X<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 15:37:06 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: YATS.X<BR><BR>On 12/23/00 at 02:14 PM,&nbsp; Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;Interesting, Eris.&nbsp; Good work.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Thanks, I thought I should give you a "roll low" system to<BR>&gt;&gt; berate...I thought about throwing some non-d6's, but decided that<BR>&gt;&gt; was too much for the Christmas Season.&nbsp; &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;I wasn't berating you!&nbsp; I was just giving you an honest look at<BR>&gt;what you had posted!<BR><BR>&gt;I hope you were not offended by anything I said, because I<BR>&gt;certainly did not mean it like that.<BR><BR><BR>No, no!&nbsp; I wasn't offended. I was kidding with you.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; The Attribute process is also going<BR>&gt;&gt; to be very familiar to the GT folks, seeing as it almost perfectly<BR>&gt;&gt; matches what you get in the GT, 2ed.<BR><BR>&gt;That could be my problem.&nbsp; I've never perused GURPS (why the built<BR>&gt;in aversion to it since the 1980's, I don't know...but I feel it<BR>&gt;slipping away a bit...meaning I'll probably look at it one day,<BR>&gt;whereas before, I wouldn't even consider it).<BR><BR>Pick up GURPS Lite, free, from somewhere on www.SJGames.com and look<BR>it over.&nbsp; What they give you is fantasy oriented, but the mechanic<BR>is the same regardless of genre. <BR><BR>&gt;&gt; YMMV, right?<BR><BR>&gt;You milage my very?<BR><BR>Your milage may vary, yes.<BR><BR>&gt;Yes.<BR><BR>&lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;As I stated in the introduction to KB3, no matter how brilliant (or<BR>&gt;not so brilliant) your work is, somebody will bitch.<BR><BR>&gt;I guess I bitched.<BR><BR>&gt;8-&gt;<BR><BR>Hee, hee! I expected you to. <BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; If you want<BR>&gt;&gt; d6's only, 1 to 6+ Skills, and 2d6 Attributes, then a corrected and<BR>&gt;&gt; tweeked MT *is* the way to go.&nbsp; Regardless of which generation it<BR>&gt;&gt; might be, MT can be fast, easy to use, and it works...and is<BR>&gt;&gt; definitively Traveller.<BR><BR>&gt;MT *is* Traveller, and CT defines it.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Not precisely, for me anyway.&nbsp; For me CT is Traveller and MT<BR>consolidated and extended it in the same direction ...TNE extended<BR>it in a *different* direction.&nbsp; Personally, I prefer going back to<BR>original sources and very carefully choosing how I want to extend it.<BR><BR>&gt;But you don't think T4 captured the feel even though it was broke?<BR><BR>Yep, it felt like Traveller, but again I didn't like all the choices<BR>that were made in extending the system.&nbsp; For one thing, I'm not as<BR>in love with handfuls of dice as you are, the chargen was close but<BR>didn't reach out and *grab* me like CT, and I was never really happy<BR>with some of the scaling, ala Striker, that ended up in the mix.<BR><BR>&gt;I think T4 did a great job (just an incomplete job).&nbsp; T4 feels very<BR>&gt;Traveller to me--thus so does both KBv2 and KB3.<BR><BR>Don't get me wrong, Ken!&nbsp; I don't run screaming from T4, KB2 or KB3,<BR>but in the final analysis, I still step back to first sources and<BR>tweek.<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; (It's easy for old CT'ers.&nbsp; I just remember 6+ is Routine, 7+ is<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Average and 8+ is Difficult, and mostly everything goes in twos<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; with "very's" in between.<BR><BR>&gt;I like it.&nbsp; It reminds me of Azhanti High Lightning.<BR><BR>( As it should! &lt;g&gt; )<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Nah!&nbsp; Don't add the Stat and Skill.&nbsp; &lt;g&gt; It's stat OR skill.<BR>&gt;&gt; Average dude has a 12 on a Skill and a 10 on a Stat, and never the<BR>&gt;&gt; twain shall meet.<BR><BR>&gt;So...a player can *pick* using a stat if it is higher than his<BR>&gt;skill?<BR><BR>Nope, not unless the Ref says he can...I seldom would.<BR><BR>&gt;Or, does a player have to use the skill, defaulting to the stat if<BR>&gt;he has no appropriate skill?<BR><BR>&gt;What if one is higher than the other?&nbsp; Like a guy with Stat 13 and<BR>&gt;Skill 12...does he have to go with the skill on a throw?<BR><BR>Use the Skill, if you don't have the skill and the Ref says it's a<BR>default skill you can try it with a default 8.&nbsp; If it's something<BR>that wouldn't default then you're SOL.<BR><BR>&gt;And, are stats largely unused under the system unless no skill is<BR>&gt;available?<BR><BR>Pretty much.<BR><BR>&gt;If you are a skill 12 with a low stat of 6, do you have the same<BR>&gt;chance to succeed as a character with a skill 12 and a high stat of<BR>&gt;18?<BR><BR>Yes, skills and stats are divorced...never the twain shall meet.<BR>Now, if you really, really want to you could do as GURPS does and<BR>base the skill on a Stat-X where X is some number between 0 and 5<BR>depending on how hard a Skill is to learn...or use an alternative<BR>I've seen of Stat/2.&nbsp; Now you have something very like T4 or MT<BR>where only some of the Stat is used...I just go all the way and<BR>divorce them. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; I also like Fudge...but I'll be charitible and won't post anything<BR>&gt;&gt; about that right now.&nbsp; &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;I've heard about Fudge, albeit, I don't know much about it.&nbsp; I am<BR>&gt;interested in it though.<BR><BR>Grab a free copy from the internet and read it.&nbsp; It appeals to my<BR>"tinkerer" nature.<BR><BR>Eris<BR><BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 15:45:33 -0600<BR>From: "Pat Connaughton" &lt;patconnaughton@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: H&amp;E The Future<BR><BR>Huzzah!&nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>Huuzah!<BR><BR><BR>Pat Connaughton<BR>e-mail - ptconn@earthlink.net<BR>homepage - www.home.earthlink.net/~ptconn<BR>ICQ # 2535086<BR>"He who knows not how to dissemble knows not<BR>how to reign"<BR>Tiberius, Emperator and Princips of Rome<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 16:17:54 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: YATS.X<BR><BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;But you don't think T4 captured the feel even though it was broke?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Yep, it felt like Traveller, but again I didn't like all the choices<BR>&gt; that were made in extending the system.<BR><BR>&gt; For one thing, I'm not as<BR>&gt; in love with handfuls of dice as you are,<BR><BR>(snip)<BR><BR>I'm not in love with handfuls of dice.&nbsp; I like them OK.&nbsp; And too many dice are hard to count, so I<BR>don't like them as much.&nbsp; KBv2.0 used too many dice.&nbsp; That's one of the things I wanted to change with<BR>KB3.<BR><BR>If you notice, in KB3, you're only rolling 2-3 dice most of the time.&nbsp; You roll 4 dice and above only<BR>occasionally (very hard tasks or very skilled characters).<BR><BR>And...<BR><BR>I'd move to a 2D6 method, no problem, if I could find/create a good Traveller mechanics systems that<BR>is defined by a character's stats and skills--not just modifying a 2D6 roll.<BR><BR><BR>Here's something that I've been playing with for a while for use with Traveller--but it needs some<BR>work.&nbsp; I presented this idea to you in another post a couple of days ago, but let me re-interate.<BR><BR>It's a 2D6 Traveller system.&nbsp; You subtract your stat from your difficulty to find your target number.<BR><BR>Example:&nbsp; You've got Stat-7, Skill-2.&nbsp; An Easy difficulty is 10.&nbsp; An Average difficulty is 15.<BR><BR>So, (10-7)...you roll Easy tasks at 3+.&nbsp; (15-7)...you roll Average tasks at 8+.&nbsp; Ect.&nbsp; You roll on 2D.<BR><BR><BR><BR>The thing I don't like about this is that Stats greatly overpower Skills, just like in T4.&nbsp; (You'd<BR>have to use your skill level as a modifier to the throw--we're back to T4.<BR><BR><BR>Another version of this idea:<BR><BR>The other way to go on this is to let your skill level shift your difficulty level (the more skill you<BR>have, the easier the task becomes--and target numbers are still based on stats)--but I haven't been<BR>able to make good difficulty numbers doing this.<BR><BR>I mean, if you have a skill-5, and you're shifting down five difficulty categories, skill-5 is waaay<BR>too powerful.<BR><BR>I can't figure a way to use 2D AND figure a way where Stats mean something, Skills mean something, and<BR>one doesn't overpower the other.<BR><BR>That would probably be the best Trav system ever--a 2D system that could do that.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; the chargen was close but<BR>&gt; didn't reach out and *grab* me like CT,<BR><BR>It was that damn rolling low stuff!<BR><BR>T4 is almost exactly like CT chargen--but you roll low!<BR><BR>Forget that!<BR><BR>8-&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&gt; and I was never really happy<BR>&gt; with some of the scaling, ala Striker, that ended up in the mix.<BR><BR>T4 was not perfect.&nbsp; I've always described it as a good idea that wasn't completed.&nbsp; It needed fixing,<BR>but I think they were headed in the right direction.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt;If you are a skill 12 with a low stat of 6, do you have the same<BR>&gt; &gt;chance to succeed as a character with a skill 12 and a high stat of<BR>&gt; &gt;18?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Yes, skills and stats are divorced...never the twain shall meet.<BR><BR>So what are Stats for?&nbsp; Just for default skills?<BR><BR>Does that sit right with you?<BR><BR>A character who is INCREDIBLE with hand-eye coordination has a Dex-15, and he has Pistol-2.&nbsp; (your<BR>equivalent of Dex-17, Pistol-12).<BR><BR>This guy has the SAME chance of hitting a target as some poor wretch whose got some space-age arthetic<BR>disease and can't move his musles right Dex-2, Pistol-2.&nbsp; (your equivalent of Dex-6, Pistol-12).<BR><BR><BR>They have the SAME chance?<BR><BR>Are you sure that sits right with you?<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 17:07:48 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: YATS.X<BR><BR>On 12/23/00 at 04:17 PM,&nbsp; Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;I'd move to a 2D6 method, no problem, if I could find/create a good<BR>&gt;Traveller mechanics systems that is defined by a character's stats<BR>&gt;and skills--not just modifying a 2D6 roll.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;Here's something that I've been playing with for a while for use<BR>&gt;with Traveller--but it needs some work.&nbsp; I presented this idea to<BR>&gt;you in another post a couple of days ago, but let me re-interate.<BR><BR>&lt;snip of example systems that don't quite work&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;I can't figure a way to use 2D AND figure a way where Stats mean<BR>&gt;something, Skills mean something, and one doesn't overpower the<BR>&gt;other.<BR><BR>Exactly!&nbsp; Ken, I'm telling you unless you normalize Stats and Skills to the same values you just can't do it!&nbsp; And I'll tell you another one...combining Stats and Skills is the road to despair.<BR><BR>&gt;That would probably be the best Trav system ever--a 2D system that<BR>&gt;could do that.<BR><BR>Utopia!&nbsp; Of course, even if you *did* find it I'm sure somebody (me probably) would bitch about it. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; the chargen was close but<BR>&gt;&gt; didn't reach out and *grab* me like CT,<BR><BR>&gt;It was that damn rolling low stuff!<BR><BR>&gt;T4 is almost exactly like CT chargen--but you roll low!<BR><BR>&gt;Forget that!<BR><BR>&gt;8-&gt;<BR><BR>Hee, hee!&nbsp; No, I can put up with roll low. Frankly, it's easier for me to intuit the probabilites of 7- than of 3+...but that's just me.&nbsp; The T4 problem with chargen was..hum..I don't know exactly what, but it just didn't *feel* quite right somehow.<BR><BR>&lt;snip again&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;If you are a skill 12 with a low stat of 6, do you have the same<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;chance to succeed as a character with a skill 12 and a high stat of<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;18?<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Yes, skills and stats are divorced...never the twain shall meet.<BR><BR>&gt;So what are Stats for?&nbsp; Just for default skills?<BR><BR>Number of skill levels, hit points, stat only rolls, not even default skills if I can avoid it. Heck, if you want to pick an Average lock and don't have lockpick, I'd say, "No skill? Bumps that difficulty up to Formidable, so roll 10+ with no DM's."&nbsp; Attributes are for pure Stat only things...like forcing open that hatch (STR), dodging a charging bull (DEX), seeing that man following you (INT), holding your breath (CON), things like that.<BR><BR>&gt;Does that sit right with you?<BR><BR>Yeah, I've become consoled to it.<BR><BR>&gt;A character who is INCREDIBLE with hand-eye coordination has a<BR>&gt;Dex-15, and he has Pistol-2.&nbsp; (your equivalent of Dex-17,<BR>&gt;Pistol-12).<BR><BR>&gt;This guy has the SAME chance of hitting a target as some poor<BR>&gt;wretch whose got some space-age arthetic disease and can't move his<BR>&gt;musles right Dex-2, Pistol-2.&nbsp; (your equivalent of Dex-6,<BR>&gt;Pistol-12).<BR><BR>&gt;They have the SAME chance?<BR><BR>&gt;Are you sure that sits right with you?<BR><BR>Yep, because I've decided that I'm just going to abstract that level of detail. If you have Pistol-2 that says something about your skill with pistols *and* your dexterity, but only when using pistols. If you have Pistol-4 you are better with pistols...period.&nbsp; To use a fantasy example, Gonzo can have Sword-5 and Dex-2 and I'm content. He's a wizard with the sword in his hand, but clumsy as heck and apt to trip just walking to the door.<BR><BR>Ken, I fought it for years, but after having been enlightened by Fudge, I'm consoled to Attributes and Skills being absolutely and totally unrelated.<BR><BR>In fact, I'd go so far as to say, that you should figure your Skills first and then decide what your Attributes should be. Good in Dex skills, so good in Dex, bad in Str skills, so bad in Str, etc. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 18:46:14 -0500<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Ask(ed by) Freelance Traveller: 400-td T-Class CP Patrol Cruiser<BR><BR>Freelance Traveller was asked...<BR><BR>&gt;This snazzy-looking ship is on the cover of the "Adventure-class Ships" put<BR>&gt;out for Traveller by FASA. It is also ine of the RAFM Traveller miniatures.<BR>&gt;Paul Schirf has a TL-12 version of it (Trenchant-class) on his deck plans<BR>&gt;page. Starship Modeler features it as a design from the first two TNE<BR>&gt;novels.<BR><BR>&gt;But I seem to be unable to find a deck plan or photo of it published in the<BR>&gt;classic Traveller stuff. Especially a TL-15 decl plan that matches the<BR>&gt;ships as presented in Brilliant Lances/Battle Rider (no marines or low<BR>&gt;berths for instance).<BR><BR>&gt;It got a brief writeup in Book 2 of the original LBBs, then didn't even get<BR>&gt;so much as a mention in the classic supplements that covered virtually<BR>&gt;every other class of ship. I haven't yet scanned the classic adventures.<BR><BR>&gt;So I am wondering, and asking you folks, where did this ship photo/deck<BR>&gt;plan first appear in classic Traveller, what subsequent versions are out<BR>&gt;there, and do any of these tie in with the version in Brilliant Lances?<BR><BR>Can anyone answer these questions?&nbsp; Responses should be at least copied to<BR>Freelance Traveller, freelancetraveller@yahoo.com, so I can easily forward<BR>them to the original querent.<BR><BR>(I suspect that the photo and plans actually came from the fertile<BR>imaginations of FASA and Paul Schirf.&nbsp; But I'd want confirmation before<BR>telling the querent that...)<BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>(Ask me via email about the ILink message network!)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 11:19:00 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: JoaT (Was: Re: Tasks with persistant causes)<BR><BR>John Groth wrote:<BR>&gt; It would seem that we have diametrically-opposed views concerning<BR>&gt; Jack-of-all-Trades (JoaT) skill.<BR><BR>Re-reading what I wrote in light of how you read it, I can see that I<BR>didn't quite state it right.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; I see JoaT as a _talent_ for figuring out what needs to be done in an<BR>&gt; unfamiliar situation, more quickly than an unskilled and untalented<BR>&gt; person would.<BR><BR>I see it as "been there, done that, got the T-shirt".&nbsp; I prefer<BR>natural talents to be abstracted into stats rather than skills.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; **your interpretation**<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "Damn.&nbsp; I've only landed LSP cutters before.&nbsp; I don't have any idea how<BR>&gt; to land an AuricTech cutter...."<BR><BR>Sorry, I misstated.&nbsp; It would be more like "I've landed LSP cutters<BR>before, I can probably land an AuricTech one too".&nbsp; And if the roll<BR>succeeds, it shows that they can indeed land an AuricTech one too.&nbsp; If<BR>they've landed an LSP cutter before, they should get a significant<BR>bonus to know how to land any similar craft.<BR><BR>The JOAT skill doesn't automatically give only one aspect of each<BR>skill.&nbsp; It gives a chance at any aspect of any skill.&nbsp; Unlike a true<BR>pilot though, their knowledge is patchier and they have no skill in<BR>aspects they lack, whereas even a pilot-0 probably has at least some<BR>minimal skill in all aspects of piloting.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; **my interpretation**<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "Hmmm.&nbsp; An AuricTech UC-5F cutter.&nbsp; I haven't been in one of these<BR>&gt; before.&nbsp; Let's see.&nbsp; Is there a 'Help' menu?&nbsp; Yeah.&nbsp; Here we go."<BR><BR>I see that sort of thing as coming under the "Intelligence" attribute.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; As I see it, JoaT can act as zero-level skill in many skills (_which_<BR>&gt; skills should be determined by the referee).<BR><BR>That's similar to the way I view it, though not identical.&nbsp; I see it<BR>as giving a chance at any skill not totally ruled out by character<BR>background.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; However, any JoaT-based roll should require at least double the<BR>&gt; normal time, since even JoaTs will spend time looking up references.<BR><BR>This is where we differ.&nbsp; I see a JoaT as drawing on previous<BR>experience in doing bits of just about everything.&nbsp; I know a couple of<BR>people like that.&nbsp; Very good at some aspects of all sorts of skills<BR>(having done it before), but totally missing other aspects that they<BR>haven't done and not much better than anyone else at those.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 11:51:40 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; I'm assuming "bound by gravity" to prevent things like dust nebulae<BR>&gt; &gt; preventing jump travel in regions tens of thousands of parsecs across.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Marc has stated that you only need to worry about objects bigger than<BR>&gt; the ship. So if the objects are smaller *and* their 100D limits don't<BR>&gt; overlap, you can ignore them.<BR><BR>OK, so that rules out nebulae, since the 100D-limit for a given dust<BR>particle isn't likely to overlap that for another dust particle.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt; A halving of density would only affect the 100D limit by 20%<BR>&gt; &gt; (i.e. 80D instead).&nbsp; For normal objects like stars, planets, and<BR>&gt; &gt; moons this means that a 100D approximation would be good enough<BR>&gt; &gt; for game purposes.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Actually this is more important than you may realize:<BR><BR>Nope, fully realise it.&nbsp; In fact I posted the difference between Earth<BR>and Saturn (the extremes of density on your list) in another message.<BR>Still close enough for game purposes.<BR><BR>&gt; And a nickel-iron asteroid will have a density of around 7.8!<BR><BR>If it's completely solid metal, yes.&nbsp; But they are mixed with other<BR>stuff.&nbsp; Possibly higher density than Earth, but the actual density of<BR>such asteroids is unknown.&nbsp; The densest known asteroid is Vesta, with<BR>a density of about 4200 kg/m^3.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt; It's only when you get to more unusual objects like nebulae and black<BR>&gt; &gt; holes that the strict 100D theory starts to diverge from the tidal<BR>&gt; &gt; stress theory.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Work out the tidal strees limit (in diamters) for the bodies listed<BR>&gt; above. <BR><BR>Already done :^) Nebulae don't even come close to creating a<BR>jump-exclusion zone.&nbsp; Black holes have similar jump limits to the sun.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; I already gave my answer to the "cloud of objects" situation. If the<BR>&gt; limits don't overlap, you treat them individually. If they do, you<BR>&gt; treat them as the union of the limits (or as one big object).<BR><BR>So that makes three different answers&nbsp; :^)<BR><BR>10 km asteroid fragmented into 100 m chunks within a region 100 km<BR>across under each system:<BR><BR>'union' -&gt; limit is 10 km from closest chunk (about 55 km from centre)<BR>'tidal stress' -&gt; limit is 1000 km from fragment cloud<BR>'one big object' -&gt; limit is 10 000 km from fragment cloud<BR><BR>It is also interesting to note that the particles in most of Saturn's<BR>rings would have overlapping 100D limits.&nbsp; If such systems of<BR>overlapping particles should be considered as a single body, then gas<BR>giants with rings have higher 100D limits than the limit of their<BR>atmosphere would indicate.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 11:54:09 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; The CRC handbook has a table with the densities of the planets<BR>&gt; (which I posted in another message). It also has a table of<BR>&gt; satellites of the planets (moons). Only about half have densities<BR>&gt; listed, but that's still *way* more typing than I feel like right<BR>&gt; now.<BR><BR>No problem; I have the CRC handbook anyway, along with lots of<BR>astronomy textbooks, reference books and data files.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 01:09:28 -0000<BR>From: "Erick ..." &lt;siniypiva@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: needless offensive nationalism<BR><BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<BR>
<P>&amp;gt;Finally, it is Americans like *you* Legate, who create the impression in<BR>&amp;gt;the rest of the world that all Americans are loud-mouthed, brash, boors.<BR>&amp;gt;It is the attitude of "we came over there and saved your asses, so don't<BR>&amp;gt;you forget it" that really wind up Europeans, especially the British, as<BR>&amp;gt;it denigrates the loss and suffering of their own population, and<BR>&amp;gt;minimises the role of their own armed forces. America never suffered the<BR>&amp;gt;horrors of strategic bombing or occupation, so to constantly rub peoples<BR>&amp;gt;noses in the fact is, well, 'bad-form'.</P><BR>
<P>seriously legate have you ever dated a french girl? no? well I have, and she was just as loyal as any american girl, so next time you start to feel yourself go off on some tangent, where you really have no idea at all about what&amp;nbsp;it is your talking about just practice some restraint. ok? because you have offended everyone here and are acting in a very unsporting manner.</P><BR>
<P>-erick<BR><BR></P>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR clear=all>&lt;hr&gt;Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <A href="http://explorer.msn.com/" title=http://explorer.msn.com/>http://explorer.msn.com/</A><BR>
<P></P><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 12:45:11 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: JoaT (Was: Re: Tasks with persistant causes)<BR><BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; About the Task Persistance that Tim is talking about, it seems to me<BR>&gt; that he wants PC's to have broad skills until tested, then as they<BR>&gt; succeed or fail on tasks specializations emerge.<BR><BR>Yes, that's about it.&nbsp; Specialization without the hassle that most<BR>such systems create.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Sally has Engineering-3, but that means little<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; She succeeds by 2 at a difficult repair of a LSP-FFP500 reactor,<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; now we know has the ability to repair fusion reactors at a +5,<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; specically the Ling model.<BR><BR>Not quite so exact as having the success margin determine the exact<BR>degree of specialization.&nbsp; There are other factors at work here too.<BR><BR>It doesn't even have to be the case that success/failure determines<BR>skill in that area.&nbsp; That's just the easiest way to deal with it.&nbsp; You<BR>can have perfect skill and still fail, or know little and succeed.<BR>But the abstraction does simplify things.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Maybe her player modifies Sally's Character Sheet to...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Engineering-3<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Fusion Engines-5<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Ling fusion engines (Difficult)&nbsp; <BR><BR>Ick, no thanks.&nbsp; Continually updating the character sheet is exactly<BR>what I *don't* want.&nbsp; Such a reactor model may never come up again, or<BR>indeed any sort reactor at all.&nbsp; I'm in favour of recording only<BR>detailed stuff that is almost certain to be needed later, likely to be<BR>forgotten, and important.<BR><BR>If it does come up again, I'm sure the player will remember that Sally<BR>has worked on a fusion reactor under difficult conditions before, and<BR>succeeded.&nbsp; That's all that is needed.&nbsp; The fact that it's a Ling<BR>model can be abstracted.&nbsp; It would be enough to remember that (say)<BR>the reactor was on a Beowulf class ship, and likely other Beowulf<BR>ships have similar reactors.<BR><BR>Even if it is completely forgotten, it can be rerolled as a normal<BR>Engineering task.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; From now on Sally automatically repairs Ling engines at a level of<BR>&gt; Difficult or less (+5 otherwise),<BR><BR>No, other factors come into play also.&nbsp; If she has good tools and<BR>working conditions, sufficient time, isn't tired or stressed badly,<BR>and the problem is a normal one then maybe success is automatic.<BR>Otherwise not.<BR><BR>It just means that she is definitely known to be good at repairing<BR>such things.&nbsp; If she fails, it won't be due to her lack of skill in<BR>this aspect of Engineering.&nbsp; The game-system effect depends on the<BR>game system and the view of the Ref on how much part skill plays in<BR>the outcome of a given task.<BR><BR>Note that aspects of skill don't have to be types of equipment.&nbsp; They<BR>could be "high performance under high stress", "improvised repairs",<BR>"textbook knowledge", "safety precautions", etc.&nbsp; This makes it seem<BR>more complicated of course, but I think most such aspects are common<BR>across a wide variety of skills.<BR><BR>A purpose-built game system could take advantage of such commonality<BR>to reduce complexity, an option not so readily available when bolting<BR>a persistence system onto an existing game.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; rolls with +5 for other fusion engines,<BR><BR>Well, at least some sort of bonus of no less than +3.&nbsp; +5 does sound<BR>about right for MT dice variance.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; and we don't know yet about other Engineering specialties, but she<BR>&gt; will be tested at +3.<BR><BR>Yep.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 01:55:34 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: [BITS] Christmas and New Year Fun Special now out<BR><BR>BITS - British Isles Traveller Support<BR>http://www.bits.org.uk<BR><BR><BR><BR>A Long Time Ago<BR>In a Galaxy Far Far Away... Episode II - Star Worn<BR><BR>Yes folks, it's the Christmas Holidays here in the UK, so instead of <BR>going out and partaking of copious amounts of food and alcohol, the <BR>elves here at BITS have been slaving away at a hot set of computers, <BR>re-crafting one of our fun tournaments for your delectation and <BR>enjoyment. 1999 saw the release of 'White Dwarf'. 2000 brings a new <BR>gem...<BR><BR>We can now proudly announce that this Christmas Eve sees the release <BR>of "Star Worn" for two weeks only. This Acrobat file contains a <BR>complete adventure suitable for entertaining your players for a <BR>evening of silliness. We deny that this adventure has anything to do <BR>with any motion picture, ever, and confirm that for legal reasons <BR>this is going to disappear in two weeks time, never to be seen again <BR>(*)...<BR><BR>It's a 280 kB download, available either via the index (click on the <BR>BITS logo on the left hand menu frame) or via the archive....<BR><BR>Happy Christmas, New Year, Festive season etc.... let us know what <BR>you think and we may well do it again...<BR><BR>Dom (BITS Websmaster)<BR><BR>(*) Unless lots of money is offered ;-)<BR><BR>BTW Permission is *not* given to re-host this adventure on other sites.<BR><BR>- -----<BR>http://www.bits.org.uk/&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.core.org.uk/<BR>Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved. Used under permission of licence.<BR>BITS, CORE and the associated logos are trademarks of BITS UK Ltd.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 01:57:15 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Shutting down<BR><BR>As of today I'm not going to be around much for a week or two. If <BR>there is anything specific for BITS please post either to <BR>bits@bits.org.uk, webmaster@bits.org.uk or dom@cybergoths.u-net.com <BR>else it'll get lost in the TML signal to noise ratios.<BR><BR>Have a good one,<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 20:17:42 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: YATS.X<BR><BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Exactly!&nbsp; Ken, I'm telling you unless you normalize Stats and Skills to the same values you just can't do it!&nbsp; And I'll tell you another one...combining Stats and Skills is the road to despair.<BR><BR>Well...I don't believe it can't be done with a 2D system.&nbsp; The key is having Stats represent one thing and having skills represent another.<BR><BR>Although not a 2D system, KB3 uses skills to give you dice and stats to measure how good you do on those dice.<BR><BR>There has to be some idea that can use that concept (or one like it) with a 2D system.<BR><BR>I just don't know what it is yet.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt;Are you sure that sits right with you?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Yep, because I've decided that I'm just going to abstract that level of detail.<BR><BR>Ah.&nbsp; I see.<BR><BR>I guess you know where I stand on that.&nbsp; Why abstract something like that when you already have stats rolled up.<BR><BR>&gt; Ken, I fought it for years, but after having been enlightened by Fudge, I'm consoled to Attributes and Skills being absolutely and totally unrelated.<BR><BR>If that's Fudge, then I don't think I'll like it.<BR><BR>Stats and Skills are absolutely connected.&nbsp; It's like Traveller's Int and Edu scores.&nbsp; Int is an indicator of how bright the character is.&nbsp; Edu is learned knowldege.&nbsp; They're the same but absolutely connected.<BR><BR>Stats and Skills are the same way.&nbsp; Stats are a character's innate ability to do something.&nbsp; Skills are learned knowledge (learned either through training or just by experience).<BR><BR>I am absolutely of the school that both should have an influence on a character's success, and that one of these should not overbear the other.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; In fact, I'd go so far as to say, that you should figure your Skills first and then decide what your Attributes should be. Good in Dex skills, so good in Dex, bad in Str skills, so bad in Str, etc. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Whew.&nbsp; I knew you were a heritic, but I guess I really didn't know how much of a heritic you were!<BR><BR>Kenneth<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; (who's just seen diablo)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3458<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-xd01.mx.aol.com (rly-xd01.mail.aol.com [172.20.105.166]) by air-xd04.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Sat, 23 Dec 2000 21:43:01 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-xd01.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Sat, 23 Dec 2000 21:42:31 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id VAA37356;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Sat, 23 Dec 2000 21:19:55 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Sat, 23 Dec 2000 21:19:36 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id VAA37310<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Sat, 23 Dec 2000 21:19:35 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 21:19:35 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012240219.VAA37310@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3458<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Sunday, December 24 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3459<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: YATS.X<BR>Re: Low standards<BR>Re: Semi-OT: New Honor Harrington story<BR>Re: Fwd: Famile Spofulam Weapon-naming Conventions<BR>Re: Noble vs. military rank<BR>Re: HazMat was ACQ was RE: BITS adventures...<BR>The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: Low standards<BR>Re: Semi-OT: New Honor Harrington story<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Turkish Naval Ranks<BR>Re: [BITS] Christmas and New Year Fun Special now out<BR>Re: Low standards<BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>RE: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>Re: Turkish Naval Ranks<BR>Re: Turkish Naval Ranks<BR>Re: Need Aramanx stuff<BR>Re: They killed Kenny!<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 13:52:33 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: YATS.X<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>&gt; Stats and Skills are absolutely connected.&nbsp; It's like Traveller's<BR>&gt; Int and Edu scores.&nbsp; Int is an indicator of how bright the character<BR>&gt; is.&nbsp; Edu is learned knowldege.&nbsp; They're the same but absolutely<BR>&gt; connected.<BR><BR>I see Edu as "academic" learning, far more useful in some skills than<BR>others.&nbsp; But in my view the main determinant of performance in a task<BR>is your skill.&nbsp; If your character has lots of natural talent, give<BR>them higher skills to reflect it.<BR><BR>Of course, you've probably gathered by now that I view skills in a<BR>somewhat different way than how they are presented in most RPGs :^)<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt; In fact, I'd go so far as to say, that you should figure your<BR>&gt; &gt;Skills first and then decide what your Attributes should be. Good<BR>&gt; &gt;in Dex skills, so good in Dex, bad in Str skills, so bad in Str,<BR>&gt; &gt;etc. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; Whew.&nbsp; I knew you were a heritic, but I guess I really didn't know<BR>&gt; how much of a heritic you were!<BR><BR>I'm with Eris on this one (Hail Eris!&nbsp; All Hail Discordia!).&nbsp; I use<BR>exactly that method for putting numbers to characters in GURPS and it<BR>works well.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 18:06:39 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; At 8:36 PM -0800 12/22/00, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Actually, it occurs to me that Jim Carrey is the *perfect* choice to<BR>&gt;&gt;play a hiver.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Nah, it would never work.&nbsp; Hivers don't do any audio communication, <BR>&gt; and they'd never be able to get Carrey to shut up.<BR><BR>They can use his voice as the "translator" output. :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 18:08:18 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Semi-OT: New Honor Harrington story<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 15:42:47 -0500<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; Subject: Re: Semi-OT: New Honor Harrington story<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; http://www.baen.com/<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Now that I've finally read most of the Honor Harrington series, I like it. <BR>&gt; But I still think the Imperium is more like the Familias Regnant in <BR>&gt; Elizabeth <BR>&gt; Moon's stories. More corporate and noble politicking, more worlds to visit, <BR>&gt; and more mopery and dopery in the spaceways. YMMV.<BR><BR>Well, the Honor Harrington stuff isn't supposed to be all that<BR>"political" other than in the sense of "the politicians create the<BR>mess, the military has to try to fix it".<BR><BR>But I think the nobles (good and bad) in the stories can easily be used<BR>in the Imperium. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 18:11:12 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Fwd: Famile Spofulam Weapon-naming Conventions<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Charles R Hensley &lt;hensley.cr@gte.net&gt; writes:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Subject: RE: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground <BR>&gt; Forces))<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;It would have to be<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Famile Spofulam<BR>&gt;&gt;Light Weapons<BR>&gt;&gt;Testing Team<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;As nothing at the Oregon Fun Shoot qualifies as a "Heavy Weapon" to<BR>&gt;&gt;Famile Spofulam.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Fine, Charles.&nbsp; *YOU* shoulder-fire the Solothurn! :^)<BR><BR>The hell with *firing* it. I want to see him *shoulder* it. :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 18:13:14 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Noble vs. military rank<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; In-Reply-To: &lt;01222.234615.9X1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Greetings dear hearts.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; In my experience (2Lt PWO 10/11 Hus), the most useful command that <BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; can ever be given by a junior officer is "Carry on Sergant"<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;From what I've heard, often an officer merely has to say "Sergeant!"<BR>&gt;&gt;and gesture (nod of head, or whatever) towards the mess the lower ranks<BR>&gt;&gt;have gotten into and the matter will be "dealt with".<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; All too true...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Of course, this means that later on the officer will have to do<BR>&gt;&gt;something nice for the sargeant...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Hmm. Sometimes. Depends on the officer.<BR><BR>Well, he isn't *required* to. But any officer that expects his NCOs to<BR>keep going "above and beyond the call of duty" and *doesn't* find a way<BR>to make it up to them is a damned fool. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 18:18:48 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: HazMat was ACQ was RE: BITS adventures...<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Any ref who wants to use hazardous cargoes should check the websites<BR>&gt;&gt;that have MSDS info, and also check to see which local colleges (even<BR>&gt;&gt;community colleges) teach courses in fire safety. The college bookstore<BR>&gt;&gt;*will* have copies of the reference books that list things like<BR>&gt;&gt;hazardous chemicals, and better yet, ones that list "hazardous<BR>&gt;&gt;reactions". That one has the reactions *and describes typical incidents<BR>&gt;&gt;where folks learned about the hazard the hard way.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;These books aren't that expensive, *especially* if you can find out<BR>&gt;&gt;when the instructor is switching to a different book, or a newer<BR>&gt;&gt;edition. The "old" books will be *severely* marked down.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The little yellow DOT handbook is really great for general use.&nbsp; It lists<BR>&gt; chemicals by placard number or name/descriptor keyed to generic instruction<BR>&gt; pages telling what to do or what not to do in case of a spill.<BR><BR>And the ref gets to teach players why folks turn white when they see<BR>that "diamond" sign with 3 "4"s on it. :-)<BR><BR>&gt; The Florida incident involved the mixing of incompatible chemicals.&nbsp; A large<BR>&gt; company with facilities in Miami went bankrupt.&nbsp; In shutting down their<BR>&gt; operations drum after drum of miscellaneous materials were poured into a<BR>&gt; large tanker truck, read cocktail shaker.&nbsp; The truck headed down the road<BR>&gt; for disposal out of state.&nbsp; About six or seven hours into the trip the tank<BR>&gt; vented and took off like a rocket sled.&nbsp; It traveled about a quarter of a<BR>&gt; mile before it stopped.<BR><BR>The PCs are contracted to haul "waste chemicals" to a storage/disposal<BR>site on of the planet's moons. &lt;eg&gt;<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 22:29:48 -0600<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>OK, so it's not perfect. But it just might work.<BR><BR>Making this up off the top of my head, BTW.<BR><BR>&lt;designer mode&gt;<BR><BR>Basic Formula:<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 2d6 + Bonus vs. Target<BR><BR>HIGHER IS BETTER!<BR><BR>Bonus equals Skill + Stat/3 (rounding down)<BR><BR>Here's the catch: The bonus from a stat can never be greater than the skill<BR>level.<BR><BR>*GLARING EXCEPTION!*: When using the Jack-of-all-Trades skill, count the<BR>JoaT level toward max bonus from attribute, but don't add the actual level<BR>of JoaT to the roll.<BR><BR>Difficulties: Simple=3, Routine=7, Difficult=11, Formidable=15,<BR>Impossible=19<BR><BR>(OH MY GOSH IT'S MEGATRAVELLER! Dang this chart's good!)<BR><BR>YES! IT'S PERFECT!!! MUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!<BR><BR>&lt;/designer mode&gt;<BR><BR>Well, not quite. Somebody somewhere is going to think that this is the<BR>stupidest thing in the world.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 00:05:24 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>James Jensen wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; YES! IT'S PERFECT!!! MUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &lt;/designer mode&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Well, not quite. Somebody somewhere is going to think that this is the<BR>&gt; stupidest thing in the world.<BR><BR>Well, not really.&nbsp; It's an OK system--an intuitive divergent from MT.<BR><BR>The things I'm not fond of are things I've stated before about 2D systems:<BR>Your character only modifies your roll (modifiers of Str and Stat) and does not<BR>define it (you get to roll *this* BECAUSE you have the stats and skills you<BR>have--instead of modifing a generic roll).<BR><BR>And, I'm not fond of the stat/3 thingy.&nbsp; There's no separation between some<BR>stats that way (ie benefit of Stat 15 is the same as benefit of Stat 13...etc.)<BR><BR>But, I could definitely see an MT fan using such a system.<BR><BR>Anyway...<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 18:08:33 +1100<BR>From: Robert Houghton &lt;rhoughto@one.net.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>Buster Keaton?<BR><BR>Other Rob<BR><BR>Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; At 8:36 PM -0800 12/22/00, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Actually, it occurs to me that Jim Carrey is the *perfect* choice to<BR>&gt; &gt;play a hiver.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Nah, it would never work.&nbsp; Hivers don't do any audio communication,<BR>&gt; and they'd never be able to get Carrey to shut up.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 23:16:17 -0800<BR>From: Gordon Horne &lt;gordon.horne@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Semi-OT: New Honor Harrington story<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Now that I've finally read most of the Honor Harrington series, I like it.<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; But I still think the Imperium is more like the Familias Regnant in<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; Elizabeth<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; Moon's stories. More corporate and noble politicking, more worlds to visit,<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; and more mopery and dopery in the spaceways. YMMV.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Well, the Honor Harrington stuff isn't supposed to be all that<BR>&gt;"political" other than in the sense of "the politicians create the<BR>&gt;mess, the military has to try to fix it".<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;But I think the nobles (good and bad) in the stories can easily be used<BR>&gt;in the Imperium.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Technologically, it would twist either universe beyond recognition to <BR>try and equate them. However, if anyone is mad enough to try, i think <BR>the Solarian League is the Imperium substitute while the Star Kingdom <BR>of Manticore and the People's Republic of Haven are pocket empires.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; g<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 18:29:41 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; The things I'm not fond of are things I've stated before about 2D<BR>&gt; systems:<BR><BR>I'm still not quite sure why you think 2D systems are inherently<BR>different from variable-D systems.&nbsp; Do you think of the dice rolls as<BR>being an inherent part of the game, or as an abstraction for events in<BR>the game world?<BR><BR>It would explain a lot of my misunderstandings with your posts if you<BR>believe the former.&nbsp; All my posts have been from the latter<BR>perspective, which probably explains why I don't see much difference<BR>between 2D and n-D systems.&nbsp; I'm still wondering about your opinion on<BR>the "skill &amp; difficulty dice" mechanic I posted a few days back that<BR>was functionally equivalent to MT's 2D mechanic.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; And, I'm not fond of the stat/3 thingy.&nbsp; There's no separation<BR>&gt; between some stats that way (ie benefit of Stat 15 is the same as<BR>&gt; benefit of Stat 13...etc.)<BR><BR>This does tend to be a problem with a few systems.&nbsp; Even if I don't<BR>like the particular implementation of how you bring stats into KB3, I<BR>do have to admit that it makes every point useful without overwhelming<BR>the effect of skill.&nbsp; Not easy to do with a system that has an<BR>attribute range 2-3 times greater than the skill range.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 02:32:04 -0800<BR>From: "Kelly St.Clair" &lt;kellys@efn.org&gt;<BR>Subject: Turkish Naval Ranks<BR><BR>A friend of mine has a slightly odd request - he's looking for some "color" <BR>in his non-Yanks in Space game and would like to know the ranking system <BR>used in Turkey (assuming that it's not the typical English-derived ranks).<BR><BR>Does anyone out there have this information?<BR><BR>- --------------<BR>Kelly St.Clair&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; "Homines est! Dici omnes! Soylens viridis HOMINES EST!"<BR>kellys@efn.org<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 10:41 +0000 (GMT)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: [BITS] Christmas and New Year Fun Special now out<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;v04210100b66b05a56399@[195.102.200.102]&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts, especially Dom.<BR><BR>*tee* *hee*<BR><BR>Indeed LOL if not ROFL.<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 11:35:29 +0100<BR>From: "Tage Borg" &lt;tage@hem.passagen.se&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>&gt; At 8:36 PM -0800 12/22/00, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Actually, it occurs to me that Jim Carrey is the *perfect* choice to<BR>&gt; &gt;play a hiver.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Nah, it would never work.&nbsp; Hivers don't do any audio communication,<BR>&gt; and they'd never be able to get Carrey to shut up.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Kenji<BR><BR>Well, then don't record sound and keep Jim off-camera. His facial<BR>expressions as he blabbers away can be used to control a hiver lookalike<BR>robot. His lips could easily manage fine control of all the hiver<BR>appendages.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; /Tage<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 23:45:11 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; I'm assuming "bound by gravity" to prevent things like dust nebulae<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; preventing jump travel in regions tens of thousands of parsecs across.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Marc has stated that you only need to worry about objects bigger than<BR>&gt;&gt; the ship. So if the objects are smaller *and* their 100D limits don't<BR>&gt;&gt; overlap, you can ignore them.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; OK, so that rules out nebulae, since the 100D-limit for a given dust<BR>&gt; particle isn't likely to overlap that for another dust particle.<BR><BR>But that brings up an interesting point. <BR><BR>Anybody trying to make a jump from *inside* a nebula is going to have<BR>some problems lining the ship up for jump. He can't use visible light<BR>to take star sights. He'll have to rely on radio sources and maybe IR.<BR>Neither of which is as precise, and the radio antenna required isn't<BR>going to be standard equipment. <BR><BR>The IR gear may be more standard, as it's the best way to spot another<BR>ship passively. <BR><BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; A halving of density would only affect the 100D limit by 20%<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; (i.e. 80D instead).&nbsp; For normal objects like stars, planets, and<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; moons this means that a 100D approximation would be good enough<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; for game purposes.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Actually this is more important than you may realize:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Nope, fully realise it.&nbsp; In fact I posted the difference between Earth<BR>&gt; and Saturn (the extremes of density on your list) in another message.<BR>&gt; Still close enough for game purposes.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; And a nickel-iron asteroid will have a density of around 7.8!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; If it's completely solid metal, yes.&nbsp; But they are mixed with other<BR>&gt; stuff.&nbsp; Possibly higher density than Earth, but the actual density of<BR>&gt; such asteroids is unknown.&nbsp; The densest known asteroid is Vesta, with<BR>&gt; a density of about 4200 kg/m^3.<BR><BR>Actually, given the way they formed, ones that are solid metal aren't<BR>at all unlikely. Any "other material" will be a shell around them.<BR>Which collisions will removed some of on smaller bodies.<BR><BR>&gt; 10 km asteroid fragmented into 100 m chunks within a region 100 km<BR>&gt; across under each system:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 'union' -&gt; limit is 10 km from closest chunk (about 55 km from centre)<BR>&gt; 'tidal stress' -&gt; limit is 1000 km from fragment cloud<BR>&gt; 'one big object' -&gt; limit is 10 000 km from fragment cloud<BR><BR>Is the union of the *tidal limit* much different from the union of the<BR>"diameter limit"?<BR><BR>&gt; It is also interesting to note that the particles in most of Saturn's<BR>&gt; rings would have overlapping 100D limits.&nbsp; If such systems of<BR>&gt; overlapping particles should be considered as a single body, then gas<BR>&gt; giants with rings have higher 100D limits than the limit of their<BR>&gt; atmosphere would indicate.<BR><BR>But that probably only applies in the plane of the rings. I'm not up to<BR>trying to do the math on it though.<BR><BR>Also, I thought the ring particles were fairly small?<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 00:54:39 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>Timothy Little worte :<BR><BR>&gt; I'm still not quite sure why you think 2D systems are inherently<BR>&gt; different from variable-D systems.&nbsp; Do you think of the dice rolls as<BR>&gt; being an inherent part of the game, or as an abstraction for events in<BR>&gt; the game world?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; It would explain a lot of my misunderstandings with your posts if you<BR>&gt; believe the former.<BR><BR>I think what he's getting at is that _fixed_ number of dice systems are<BR>inherently different from systems that use a _variable_ number of dice. It<BR>doesn't matter how many dice, just that the number never changes once<BR>selected<BR><BR>Here's a quick summary of the benefits of fixed dice systems of the top of<BR>my head :<BR><BR>1. They are much easier to analyse and understand statistically<BR>2. They give the storyteller a better idea of the effects of modifiers<BR>3. They are easier to use at runtime because players don't have to count out<BR>different numbers of dice for each roll.<BR><BR>Frankly, it's hard to see _any_ benefit from n dice, except that they often<BR>give players lots of dice to roll. &lt;grin&gt;<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 23:02:23 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt; Anybody trying to make a jump from *inside* a nebula is going to have<BR>&gt; some problems lining the ship up for jump. He can't use visible light<BR>&gt; to take star sights. He'll have to rely on radio sources and maybe IR.<BR>&gt; Neither of which is as precise, and the radio antenna required isn't<BR>&gt; going to be standard equipment. <BR><BR>Wouldn't radar do?&nbsp; Used passively, of course, but it should be plenty<BR>sensitive enough to see a few nearby stars if it can pick up ships at<BR>astronomical distances.&nbsp; I'm not so sure about IR; some nebulae<BR>scatter IR quite nicely.&nbsp; It depends on the size of the dust<BR>particles.<BR><BR>A neutrino detector should do perfectly -- stars are excellent<BR>neutrino sources and they wouldn't be affected by the nebula.&nbsp; If<BR>you've got one, of course.<BR><BR><BR>[...nickel-iron asteroids...]<BR>&gt; Actually, given the way they formed, ones that are solid metal aren't<BR>&gt; at all unlikely. Any "other material" will be a shell around them.<BR>&gt; Which collisions will removed some of on smaller bodies.<BR><BR>Yes, quite likely.&nbsp; I was only pointing out that we haven't actually<BR>measured the density of any such asteroids.&nbsp; I'm not disagreeing about<BR>whether they are likely to exist.&nbsp; Though our theory of how they form<BR>and what happens to them later might be wrong :^)<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt; 'union' -&gt; limit is 10 km from closest chunk (about 55 km from centre)<BR>&gt; &gt; 'tidal stress' -&gt; limit is 1000 km from fragment cloud<BR>&gt; &gt; 'one big object' -&gt; limit is 10 000 km from fragment cloud<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Is the union of the *tidal limit* much different from the union of the<BR>&gt; "diameter limit"?<BR><BR>Well, a pure 100D interpretation gives a set of overlapping spheres.<BR>The union of these is one big (slightly lumpy) sphere.<BR><BR>I suppose you could add the volumes of each 100D zone, though its hard<BR>to see how that would work.&nbsp; If you do, it would be similar to the<BR>tidal stress limit except the shape might be quite different in some<BR>other cases.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; But that probably only applies in the plane of the rings. I'm not up to<BR>&gt; trying to do the math on it though.<BR><BR>I'm not sure the math is even meaningful.&nbsp; The 100D limit as written<BR>is only ever applied to objects that have similar diameters in all<BR>dimensions.&nbsp; There is no canonical source which states how other types<BR>of objects should have their 100D limits calculated.<BR><BR>Of course tidal stress *can * be calculated.&nbsp; I'll have a go at it,<BR>since it seems like such an interesting problem.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Also, I thought the ring particles were fairly small?<BR><BR>They range in size from dust motes, up to a few metres across.&nbsp; The<BR>particles are mainly water ice.&nbsp; If they were over 100D from their<BR>closest neighbours, then the average density would be less than 1<BR>g/m^3.&nbsp; The density of the B ring is a few thousand times higher, so<BR>the particles are not that far apart.&nbsp; I was surprised to find that<BR>out.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 01:09:25 +1300<BR>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Turkish Naval Ranks<BR><BR>On 24 Dec 00, at 2:32, Kelly St.Clair wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; A friend of mine has a slightly odd request - he's looking for some "color" in<BR>&gt; his non-Yanks in Space game and would like to know the ranking system used in<BR>&gt; Turkey (assuming that it's not the typical English-derived ranks).<BR><BR>Only the officers<BR>Bayuk Amiral = Admiral of the Fleet<BR>Or Amiral = Admiral (senior)<BR>Kor Amiral = Admiral (junior)<BR>Tum Amiral = Vice Admiral<BR>Tug Amiral = Rear Admiral<BR>Tugbay = Commodore<BR>Albay = Captain (senior)<BR>Yarbay = Captian (junior)<BR>Binbasi = Commander<BR>On Yuzbasi = Lieutenant Commander<BR>Yuzbasi = Lieutenant<BR>Ustermen = Sublieutenant<BR>Tegmen = Acting Sublieutenant<BR>Astegmen = Midshipman<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 12:40 +0000 (GMT)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: Turkish Naval Ranks<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;5.0.2.1.1.20001224022837.00a189b0@mailhost.efn.org&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>I have it SOMEWHERE... the trick is locating it. Would something like <BR>Greek or Bulgarian or Polish do him (as these were amongst the first naval <BR>ranks lists that came to hand)?<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR>(When not roleplaying, I study uniforms &amp; medals...)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 13:37:27 GMT<BR>From: newbomb@home.com (The Right Reverend Newbomb Turk)<BR>Subject: Re: Need Aramanx stuff<BR><BR>On Sat, 23 Dec 2000 07:27:02 -0800 (PST), you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Aramanx is also listed in Challenge 61, "The Equalizer Project."&nbsp; The<BR>&gt;article includes maps of the planet, detailed maps of one of the<BR>&gt;continents, as well as background on the military and political situations.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Alas, that issue is one that I do not have. Any ideas of Marc plans to<BR>reprint the articles from them one day?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 11:57:30 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: They killed Kenny!<BR><BR>At 1:21 PM -0500 12/23/00, Michael Houghton wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Howdy!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Dredging up a long ago thread:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Bozhe moi! Oni ubbivayat Kenni Ublyodoki!<BR><BR><BR>wha --?&nbsp; You ingrates had a language thread going on while I was <BR>away?&nbsp; You -- you -- &lt;sob&gt;<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 10:55:24 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>Timothy Little wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I'm still not quite sure why you think 2D systems are inherently<BR>&gt; different from variable-D systems.<BR><BR>What I am saying is this:<BR><BR>With a 2D system such as CT or MT, you have an abstract game mechanic of a 2D<BR>roll.&nbsp; Nothing about the character creates this roll for you--everybody gets the<BR>roll.&nbsp; It is common across the board.&nbsp; Success is equal for every character no<BR>matter his abilities or skills.<BR><BR>Now, to individualize the roll, modifiers are added and subtracted based on the<BR>character's abilities and skills.<BR><BR>So, if you are an average dude (under the MT system for an example), you have a<BR>Stat-7 and a Skill-2.&nbsp; When you want to do something, you roll 2D and add your<BR>skill level and 1 point for your stat.<BR><BR>If you make an average roll, you'll roll a total of 7 on the dice and add 3 to this<BR>number.&nbsp; Your total is 10.<BR><BR>What I am looking at is where that number came from.&nbsp; How did we reach this point?<BR>How was that 10 generated, and how much of that 10 was generated because of the<BR>character--and how much of that total was generated because of an abstract, across<BR>the board mechanic that has nothing to do with the character.<BR><BR>In this average exampe (average character, average throw), 7 points of the 10 was<BR>generated with nothing to do with the character.&nbsp; 3 points were generated because<BR>of the character.<BR><BR>Do you see?&nbsp; A character with Stat-4 and a Skill-0 will average a 7 on the throw<BR>(because nothing determined by the character influences the throw).<BR><BR>And, there is no difference between a character with Stat-2 and Skill-0...or even<BR>Stat-1 and Skill-0.&nbsp; And THERE SHOULD BE.&nbsp; A Stat-1 or a Stat-2 is a FAR CRY from a<BR>character with a Stat-4.<BR><BR>I think systems should be more DETERMINED by the character.&nbsp; I want to shift<BR>success chance from a base on an abstraction to a base on the character.<BR><BR><BR>The T4 system does what I'm talking about.&nbsp; Your target number, as a T4 character,<BR>is completly determined by your stat.&nbsp; It's not some arbitrary 8+ like in CT.&nbsp; You<BR>have to roll lower than your stat to be successful.&nbsp; And, your skill level is added<BR>to your stat.<BR><BR>Your success is DETERMINED by the abilities and skills the character has.&nbsp; These<BR>abilities and skills don't just modify a roll--they determine it.<BR><BR>And, when you have a system like this, there is a difference between a Stat-4<BR>Skill-0 character and a Stat-1 Skill-0 character.&nbsp; There's a big difference,<BR>especially at the lower difficulty levels.<BR><BR><BR>You see, I'm not talking about percentages of success or standard diviations or<BR>mean rolls.&nbsp; I'm looking at where the numbers come from--what the stats and skills<BR>actually mean to a throw.<BR><BR>And that's why 2D systems are not as sophisticated as multiple dice systems,<BR>because with a multiple dice system, every character is differintiated by the<BR>skills and attributes he posseses.<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; This does tend to be a problem with a few systems.&nbsp; Even if I don't<BR>&gt; like the particular implementation of how you bring stats into KB3, I<BR>&gt; do have to admit that it makes every point useful without overwhelming<BR>&gt; the effect of skill.&nbsp; Not easy to do with a system that has an<BR>&gt; attribute range 2-3 times greater than the skill range.<BR><BR>You know....I think you just game me a compliment...I think...<BR><BR>Thank you, man!<BR><BR>Merry Christmas to you!<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>PS&nbsp; What is it about the use of Stats in KB3 that you don't like?&nbsp; (curiosity)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3459<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; 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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Sunday, December 24 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3460<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Low standards<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: Walter Koenig (RE: Low standards)<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>RE: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: The Dweaded Piwacy Thwead<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: the perfect 2d system (next on the list, just after we find the Holy Grail)<BR>Re: the perfect 2d system (next on the list, just after we find the Holy&nbsp; Grail)<BR>Re: the perfect 2d system (next on the list, just after we find the Holy&nbsp; Grail)<BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>Re: They killed Kenny!<BR>Re: Semi-OT: New Honor Harrington story<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 10:03:45 -0700 (MST)<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>On Fri, 22 Dec 2000 eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; All of you seem to see Lucan as a big, strong, good-looking guy. I see<BR>&gt; him as a ugly little weasel of a man as twisted on the outside as he<BR>&gt; is on the inside.<BR><BR>"Now is the winter of our discontent..." <BR><BR>Ok, how about we get Steve Buscemi to play Lucan...though Michael Madsen<BR>(Reservoir Dogs) has the requisite creepy psychopath bit down pat.<BR><BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 11:11:27 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>"Frank G. Pitt" wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Frankly, it's hard to see _any_ benefit from n dice, except that they often<BR>&gt; give players lots of dice to roll. &lt;grin&gt;<BR><BR>The argument is not n-dice systems vs 2D systems.&nbsp; I am quite happy with a 2D<BR>system as long as the roll of a character is determined by his stats and skills<BR>(see my reply to Tim Little on this).<BR><BR>The question is not, "To use, or not to use a 2D system".<BR><BR>The question is, "How can every point of my character's Stat, and every point of<BR>his Skill, influence and determine the roll I'm about to make?"<BR><BR><BR>So far, the only way I've been able to make this concept work is to use a<BR>multi-dice system.&nbsp; If I could figure a way to make it work with a 2D system,<BR>I'd go that way.<BR><BR>And right now, Frank, because I can find no 2D system to make that work, there<BR>_is_ a benefit to multi-dice systems over 2D systems (but only for this<BR>reason--I'm sure there has got to be a way to make a 2D system perform the way I<BR>need it to).&nbsp; 8-&gt;<BR><BR><BR>I will illustrate.&nbsp; I will use a character of Stat-5, Skill-2 and compare this<BR>to a character with Stat-9, Skill-2.&nbsp; And I will compare the MT 2D system to the<BR>T4 multi-dice system.<BR><BR>Under MT, there is NO DIFFERENCE between a Stat-5, Skill-2 character and a<BR>Stat-9, Skill-2 character.&nbsp; They have the same chance of success on all of their<BR>rolls in every difficulty category.&nbsp; Each will get a total of +3 to the roll.<BR><BR>See...the character's abilities and skills are modifying the dice roll, not<BR>defining it.<BR><BR><BR>Now, if you take the same two characters and use the multi-dice T4 system, you<BR>WILL see a difference in their throws.&nbsp; The Stat-5, Skill-2 character always has<BR>to roll less than 7.&nbsp; The Stat-9, Skill-2 character always has to roll less than<BR>11.<BR><BR>THERE IS A DIFFERENCE.&nbsp; What the character has to roll is determined by the<BR>stats and skills he has.&nbsp; It's not a modification of a generic roll like in the<BR>MT system.<BR><BR>Under the T4 multi-dice system, every character is unique, based on his own<BR>abilities and skills (which is not true under MT, as I have illustrated above).<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 10:18:19 -0700 (MST)<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Walter Koenig (RE: Low standards)<BR><BR>On Fri, 22 Dec 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; I believe the B5 effects were all created using an app called Video Toast.<BR>&gt; &gt; Can Anyone confirm?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Video Toaster. On the Amiga. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; But there may be hardware involved too. <BR><BR>Not likely. The Amiga topped out at a 68040 version, I believe, or maybe a<BR>68030, pretty low powered for video editing and FX on a weekly production<BR>schedule. Any Amiga running today is _at least_ ten years old, and waaaay<BR>past it's prime.<BR><BR>_Lightwave_, a 3-D modelling and rendering app derived from<BR>software bundled with the original Video Toaster, is, I believe, used for<BR>most of the CG work but I really doubt that the original Video Toaster is<BR>being used.<BR><BR>That was amazing for it's day, a truly astonishing piece of hardware, but<BR>we're several generations beyond the original Toaster these days...<BR><BR>The Video toaster is capable of the FX you see in cheap local furniture<BR>store commercials, titling, wipes, fades and suchlike, but for B5 (or<BR>anything on that scale) they use much more sophisticated software and<BR>hardware, which is not a lot more expensive than the original Video<BR>Toaster setup.<BR><BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 11:23:51 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>"Frank G. Pitt" wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Frankly, it's hard to see _any_ benefit from n dice, except that they often<BR>&gt; give players lots of dice to roll. &lt;grin&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>We seem to be focused on two different aspects of game mechanics.&nbsp; You and Tim<BR>are looking at the multi-dice vs 2D issue, but that's not really the question.<BR>The question is how to make every point of a character's stat and every point of<BR>his skill mean something to him.<BR><BR>I said in my last reply to you that I couldn't come up with a 2D system that is<BR>determined by stats and skills.&nbsp; That's not quite true.&nbsp; I have come up with a<BR>2D system like that, but the problem is that it is plagued with the T4 issue of<BR>having Stats greatly outweigh Skills.<BR><BR>So, to define the perfect Traveller system, it will be a 2D system that is<BR>determined by a character's stats and skills--and neither of those components<BR>overpower the other when it comes to determining the chance of success.<BR><BR>Not only do we want to have every point of stat count for something and every<BR>point of skill count for something, but we want those components to be balanced<BR>(which is what was wrong with T4).<BR><BR><BR><BR>Here is a 2D system that is close to what we need--but stats overpower skills<BR>(which is why I won't use it).<BR><BR>You have a set of difficulty numbers (you'll have to play with these numbers to<BR>get them right--I'm just explaining how the system would work):<BR><BR>Easy 10<BR>Average&nbsp; 15<BR>Difficult&nbsp; 20<BR>...etc...<BR><BR><BR>But, to get your target number, you add your stat to your skill level and<BR>subtract this from your difficulty.<BR><BR>Example:&nbsp; Stat-7, Skill-2, Average throw.....(15 - 9 = 6 )....you have to throw<BR>6+ on 2D.<BR><BR><BR>See...THAT is a 2D system that does what we want.&nbsp; The roll is determined by the<BR>character's abilities and stats, and all characters are unique based on the<BR>abilities and stats that they have.<BR><BR>Again...the problem with this system is that stats greatly outweigh skills when<BR>determining success.<BR><BR>And that just can't be.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 11:03:20 -0800<BR>From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>Subject: RE: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>"Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Timothy Little worte :<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; I'm still not quite sure why you think 2D systems are inherently<BR>&gt; &gt; different from variable-D systems.&nbsp; Do you think of the dice rolls<BR>&gt; &gt; as being an inherent part of the game, or as an abstraction for<BR>&gt; &gt; events in the game world?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; It would explain a lot of my misunderstandings with your posts if<BR>&gt; &gt; you believe the former.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I think what he's getting at is that _fixed_ number of dice systems<BR>&gt; are inherently different from systems that use a _variable_ number of<BR>&gt; dice. It doesn't matter how many dice, just that the number never<BR>&gt; changes once selected<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Here's a quick summary of the benefits of fixed dice systems of the<BR>&gt; top of my head :<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; 1. They are much easier to analyse and understand statistically<BR>&gt; 2. They give the storyteller a better idea of the effects of modifiers<BR>&gt; 3. They are easier to use at runtime because players don't have to<BR>&gt; count out different numbers of dice for each roll.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Frankly, it's hard to see _any_ benefit from n dice, except that they<BR>&gt; often give players lots of dice to roll. &lt;grin&gt;<BR><BR>I'm with you. A low, fixed number of dice is simple, so are systems <BR>like Trinity or Aberrant where you roll stat+skill dice.&nbsp; Anything else <BR>is honestly more complex than I want to use.&nbsp; or me, complex <BR>systems that require tables, charts, or significant thought as to <BR>exactly what you are rolling slow a game *way* down.&nbsp; I'm honestly <BR>not certain why anyone would want a game system to be anything <BR>other than as transparent as possible.<BR><BR>As a result, my fave systems in order are:<BR><BR>1) Conspiracy X (much like MT, but with *excellent* autosuccess <BR>rules that cut the amount of die rolling in half.<BR><BR>2) MT (the first and best task system), which also has the great <BR>virtue (to me) that skills matter far more than stats.<BR><BR>3) Aberrant/Trinity (White Wolf's system, but with all the bugs <BR>removed, you have variable successes, but no variable success <BR>numbers, so probability calculations don't require a PhD in math to <BR>perform. <BR><BR>Anything more complex is too complex for me.&nbsp; <BR><BR>I'm interested to hear alternate viewpoints on this issue.<BR><BR>Happy Holidays to all!<BR><BR>- -John Snead sneadj@Mindspring.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 06:25:11 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Dweaded Piwacy Thwead<BR><BR>&gt; From: John Groth <BR>&gt; Ah, but that also makes it one of the biggest concentrations of military<BR>&gt; _inertia_ in the Imperium.&nbsp; After all, the fleet commander there (quite<BR>&gt; possibly a political hack, rather than a "fighting admiral") may not be<BR>&gt; willing to send portions of the Imperium's primary stragegic reserve<BR>&gt; haring off after some quarter-credit smugglers.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "What if the fleet's needed for a _real_ situation?&nbsp; I can't scatter my<BR>&gt; assets across half the subsector chasing petty criminals!&nbsp; It would take<BR>&gt; _months_ to reassemble my forces to respond to a crisis, if I have ships<BR>&gt; strewn about the subsector like so many piles of poni droppings! <BR>&gt; Concentration, I tell you, massed forces hitting hard - that's how you<BR>&gt; win wars!"<BR><BR>True.&nbsp; I wouldn't want to do a mercenary campaign there though, at least<BR>without some _serious_ noble patrons.&nbsp; <BR><BR>The other thing is that the subsector fleet (3rd Fleet) would do most of<BR>the "police" work, rather than the units attached to Depot itself.&nbsp;&nbsp; I was<BR>thinking that while the 3rd Fleet is prestigious, it might not actually be<BR>all that large.&nbsp; Core is a long way in from the borders, and the big<BR>strategic reserve fleets are the "extra" ones based at Capital.&nbsp; (A fair<BR>bit of their strength would be at Depot though.)&nbsp; <BR><BR>In addition, the neighbouring systems might get a certain amount of traffic<BR>from leave parties.&nbsp; "The Sylean Rangers go to the pub".&nbsp; It sounds like a<BR>scenario, doesn't it?<BR><BR>A not-so-random thought:&nbsp; Duke Simalr of Ushra was "speaking for the Moot"<BR>in opposing Lucan taking the throne without authorisation from the Moot in<BR>the MT timeline.&nbsp; I am thinking that he might make a good "Speaker"<BR>(presiding officer) for the Moot.&nbsp; This would result in him spending most<BR>of his time on Capital, with his duties as subsector duke delegated to<BR>someone else, probably one of his kids or some other relative.<BR><BR>On the general "feel" of Core sector:&nbsp; while the threshold for Imperial<BR>intervention is probably a bit lower than it is on the frontiers, conflicts<BR>between noble factions can tend to prevent it.&nbsp; As a result, wars are more<BR>or less as common as they are in the Marches, though factions without noble<BR>patrons tend to get stomped.<BR><BR>On the other hand, the Archduke of Sylea would probably prefer that<BR>disputes between nobles should be resolved in the manner of gentlesophonts<BR>(poison?), rather than by warfare.&nbsp; His opinion counts, if the Marine Guard<BR>are nearby.&nbsp; I guess that the art of politics in Core includes knowing how<BR>far you can go without provoking a reaction.<BR><BR>Some of the "other" megacorps from M0 might still be around in Core.&nbsp; They<BR>just aren't megacorps any more, but don't tell them that.&nbsp; (In fact, they<BR>might well be larger than they were in year 0!)&nbsp; <BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 15:44:47 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I'm with you. A low, fixed number of dice is simple, so are systems<BR>&gt; like Trinity or Aberrant where you roll stat+skill dice.&nbsp; Anything else<BR>&gt; is honestly more complex than I want to use.&nbsp; or me, complex<BR>&gt; systems that require tables, charts, or significant thought as to<BR>&gt; exactly what you are rolling slow a game *way* down.&nbsp; I'm honestly<BR>&gt; not certain why anyone would want a game system to be anything<BR>&gt; other than as transparent as possible.<BR><BR>Have you honestly looked at KB3?&nbsp; It is much more simple to use than the MT<BR>system you are fond of (I like the MT system too--it's just that KB3 is an<BR>easier system AND provides more detailed results than MT does).<BR><BR>When a person needs to roll something, he looks down at character sheet for<BR>his skill level and rolls that number of dice +1.<BR><BR>That's it.<BR><BR>If he's got a level-2 skill, he'll roll 3D.<BR><BR>You roll against a target number or another roll, and if you beat that<BR>target number or roll, you look at the total that's laying in front of you<BR>and compare it to your stat to see how well you did.<BR><BR><BR>Do you honestly think that's more difficult than dividing your skill by 5,<BR>dropping fractions, adding that number to your skill, then adding that sum<BR>to your 2D dice roll versus a target number?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 09:38:53 +1100<BR>From: "Katharine Whitchurch" &lt;katts@globalfreeway.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: the perfect 2d system (next on the list, just after we find the Holy Grail)<BR><BR>&gt; From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>The first thing to remember in this debate is that, by definition, rules<BR>systems suck.<BR><BR>&gt; And, there is no difference between a character with Stat-2 and<BR>Skill-0...or even<BR>&gt; Stat-1 and Skill-0.&nbsp; And THERE SHOULD BE.&nbsp; A Stat-1 or a Stat-2 is a FAR<BR>CRY from a<BR>&gt; character with a Stat-4.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>No it's not. Lets look at an example - a mechanic fixing a car. Does it<BR>really matter how smart the mechanic is ? Or is what matters how experienced<BR>they are ? I'll go for the really dumb guy who's been doing it for 20 years<BR>...<BR><BR>&gt; The T4 system does what I'm talking about.&nbsp; Your target number, as a T4<BR>character,<BR>&gt; is completly determined by your stat.&nbsp; It's not some arbitrary 8+ like in<BR>CT.&nbsp; You<BR>&gt; have to roll lower than your stat to be successful.&nbsp; And, your skill level<BR>is added<BR>&gt; to your stat.<BR><BR>This is where T4 sucked, as it firstly vastly over-weighted stats over<BR>skills, and secondly made it far too easy to get characters with silly<BR>levels of INT and EDU. Put them both together, and you get a space-opera-ish<BR>game of mad scientists who can cover every field with raw brainpower and a<BR>quick review of the literature.<BR><BR>Two fixes to this ; firstly the T5 'It's harder than I thought' rule to make<BR>expertise count when the going gets tough, and secondly make the character<BR>roll over their current stat to actually get any stat increase in char gen.<BR><BR>&gt; And, when you have a system like this, there is a difference between a<BR>Stat-4<BR>&gt; Skill-0 character and a Stat-1 Skill-0 character.&nbsp; There's a big<BR>difference,<BR>&gt; especially at the lower difficulty levels.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>It's a fundamental disagreement here (not neccessarily with you, Ken), over<BR>how important stats are. Me, if I want someone to play football for me, I'll<BR>go for the football player over the athlete any day of the week.<BR><BR>&gt; And that's why 2D systems are not as sophisticated as multiple dice<BR>systems,<BR>&gt; because with a multiple dice system, every character is differintiated by<BR>the<BR>&gt; skills and attributes he posseses.<BR><BR>Yes, but 2d systems are easier to run. When I want to roleplay, I'll<BR>roleplay. When I want to figure probabilities and figure out how many dice<BR>to throw, I'll play miniatures or SFB or something.<BR><BR>Give me something quick and simple - target number is a 4 for Easy (skill<BR>0), a 7 for Average(1), a 10 for Difficult(2), a 13 for Hard(3) and a 16 for<BR>Impossible(4). Roll 2 dice, plus a dice for every skill level you are<BR>missing for the difficulty. Get a -1 if your stat is 4-, +1 if it is 8+ and<BR>a +2 if it is 13+. Time pressure, tools and lack thereof can all give<BR>modifiers to skill.<BR><BR>This kinda assumes skills in the CT 1-4 range. Tweak it yourself if skills<BR>are easier to get.<BR><BR>You also have pure-stat based test, or if we want to go long-form, you get<BR>two dice rolls against your stat every time you use a skill. For each one<BR>you fail, you get a -1. For each one you make, you get a +1. If you hit your<BR>stat number, it's a zero.<BR><BR>For contested skill tests, the higher skill person picks the difficulty,<BR>then they both roll. Whoever makes it by the most, or fails by the least,<BR>wins (for combat, it's a contested skills test of offensive skill vs<BR>defensive skill).<BR><BR>Ian Whitchurch<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 17:07:15 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: the perfect 2d system (next on the list, just after we find the Holy&nbsp; Grail)<BR><BR>Katharine Whitchurch wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; And, there is no difference between a character with Stat-2 and<BR>&gt; Skill-0...or even<BR>&gt; &gt; Stat-1 and Skill-0.&nbsp; And THERE SHOULD BE.&nbsp; A Stat-1 or a Stat-2 is a FAR<BR>&gt; CRY from a<BR>&gt; &gt; character with a Stat-4.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; No it's not. Lets look at an example - a mechanic fixing a car. Does it<BR>&gt; really matter how smart the mechanic is ? Or is what matters how experienced<BR>&gt; they are ? I'll go for the really dumb guy who's been doing it for 20 years<BR><BR>Really?<BR><BR>Would you really?<BR><BR>Would you go to a really dumb doctor who's been doing it for 20 years over a<BR>brilliant young new specialist who just graduated at the top of his class from<BR>the Harvard Medical School?<BR><BR><BR><BR>Experience counts (skill level).<BR>So does a person's natural ability (stats).<BR><BR>You need both to influence success--not just one or the other.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 17:18:43 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: the perfect 2d system (next on the list, just after we find the Holy&nbsp; Grail)<BR><BR>Katharine Whitchurch wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; This is where T4 sucked, as it firstly vastly over-weighted stats over<BR>&gt; skills, and secondly made it far too easy to get characters with silly<BR>&gt; levels of INT and EDU. Put them both together, and you get a space-opera-ish<BR>&gt; game of mad scientists who can cover every field with raw brainpower and a<BR>&gt; quick review of the literature.<BR><BR>Agreed.&nbsp; I've said this same statement before (in other words), and this is the<BR>reason KBv2.0 was created.<BR><BR>To a lesser degree, it's why KB3 was created.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; It's a fundamental disagreement here (not neccessarily with you, Ken), over<BR>&gt; how important stats are. Me, if I want someone to play football for me, I'll<BR>&gt; go for the football player over the athlete any day of the week.<BR><BR>So, you're saying stats aren't important at all?<BR><BR>I don't think stats should over power skills.&nbsp; I think they should be balanced,<BR>and I think both should contribute, in some way, to a character's success.<BR><BR>That's all.<BR><BR>I'm not willing to ignore stats for a "skill-only" system, and I'm not willing<BR>to ignore expertise in skills for a natural-ability (stat) only system.<BR><BR>We need both to contribute.&nbsp; We need them balanced.&nbsp; And we need a character's<BR>success to be defined by them.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Yes, but 2d systems are easier to run. When I want to roleplay, I'll<BR>&gt; roleplay. When I want to figure probabilities and figure out how many dice<BR>&gt; to throw, I'll play miniatures or SFB or something.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Give me something quick and simple - target number is a 4 for Easy...<BR><BR>(snip rest of example)<BR><BR>OK.&nbsp; How simple is this?&nbsp; You won't be figuring any probabilites here--you just<BR>look at your level and roll.<BR><BR><BR>You look at your character sheet and see your skill level.&nbsp; Throw a number of D6<BR>equal to that number +1 (ie, if you have a skill-3, you'll throw 4D).<BR><BR>Then...simply compare your roll with a target number or an opposed roll.<BR>Whichever is higher wins.<BR><BR>That's it.<BR><BR>That's KB3.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Is that not easier than your example (or even the MT system--no dividing stat)?<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 15:09:27 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; Anybody trying to make a jump from *inside* a nebula is going to have<BR>&gt;&gt; some problems lining the ship up for jump. He can't use visible light<BR>&gt;&gt; to take star sights. He'll have to rely on radio sources and maybe IR.<BR>&gt;&gt; Neither of which is as precise, and the radio antenna required isn't<BR>&gt;&gt; going to be standard equipment. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Wouldn't radar do?&nbsp; Used passively, of course, but it should be plenty<BR>&gt; sensitive enough to see a few nearby stars if it can pick up ships at<BR>&gt; astronomical distances. <BR><BR>If you are using it passively, it isn't "radar". And I did say "radio<BR>sources". <BR><BR>The problem is that you aren't going to get *precise* positions for the<BR>stars. For a given size of "dish" the precision drops as the wavelength<BR>goes up, reaching zero around the time that the wavelength hits the<BR>width of the dish.<BR><BR>Also, how do you know which star is which? Most stars aren't all that<BR>bright at microwave wavelengths anyway.<BR><BR>Note the size of dish required to "image" stars for radio astronomy... <BR><BR>&gt; I'm not so sure about IR; some nebulae<BR>&gt; scatter IR quite nicely.&nbsp; It depends on the size of the dust<BR>&gt; particles.<BR><BR>That's why I said "maybe IR". <BR><BR>&gt; A neutrino detector should do perfectly -- stars are excellent<BR>&gt; neutrino sources and they wouldn't be affected by the nebula.&nbsp; If<BR>&gt; you've got one, of course.<BR><BR>Again the problem is identifying the source. Is that source star X or<BR>star Y. Or supernova Z?<BR><BR>&gt; [...nickel-iron asteroids...]<BR>&gt;&gt; Actually, given the way they formed, ones that are solid metal aren't<BR>&gt;&gt; at all unlikely. Any "other material" will be a shell around them.<BR>&gt;&gt; Which collisions will removed some of on smaller bodies.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Yes, quite likely.&nbsp; I was only pointing out that we haven't actually<BR>&gt; measured the density of any such asteroids.<BR><BR>Sure we have. What fo you think meteorites *are*? :-)<BR><BR>I have a 3 cm nickel iron one right here... <BR><BR>&gt; I'm not disagreeing about<BR>&gt; whether they are likely to exist.&nbsp; Though our theory of how they form<BR>&gt; and what happens to them later might be wrong :^)<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; 'union' -&gt; limit is 10 km from closest chunk (about 55 km from centre)<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; 'tidal stress' -&gt; limit is 1000 km from fragment cloud<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; 'one big object' -&gt; limit is 10 000 km from fragment cloud<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Is the union of the *tidal limit* much different from the union of the<BR>&gt;&gt; "diameter limit"?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Well, a pure 100D interpretation gives a set of overlapping spheres.<BR>&gt; The union of these is one big (slightly lumpy) sphere.<BR><BR>&gt; I suppose you could add the volumes of each 100D zone, though its hard<BR>&gt; to see how that would work.&nbsp; If you do, it would be similar to the<BR>&gt; tidal stress limit except the shape might be quite different in some<BR>&gt; other cases.<BR><BR>That's what I had in mind. With the right arrangement of bodies you<BR>might be able to jump, but only in certain directions. <BR><BR>&gt;&gt; But that probably only applies in the plane of the rings. I'm not up to<BR>&gt;&gt; trying to do the math on it though.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I'm not sure the math is even meaningful.&nbsp; The 100D limit as written<BR>&gt; is only ever applied to objects that have similar diameters in all<BR>&gt; dimensions.&nbsp; There is no canonical source which states how other types<BR>&gt; of objects should have their 100D limits calculated.<BR><BR>&gt; Of course tidal stress *can * be calculated.&nbsp; I'll have a go at it,<BR>&gt; since it seems like such an interesting problem.<BR><BR>That's what I was thinking of, The 2e-13 contour for a ring system out<BR>to look interesting. Just remember that the way the vectors add<BR>produces some odd results. After all, there's *no* decrement to the<BR>field from a flat sheet! <BR><BR>*Hopefully* the oddities will mostly cancel before the point we are<BR>interested in.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Also, I thought the ring particles were fairly small?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; They range in size from dust motes, up to a few metres across.&nbsp; The<BR>&gt; particles are mainly water ice.&nbsp; If they were over 100D from their<BR>&gt; closest neighbours, then the average density would be less than 1<BR>&gt; g/m^3.&nbsp; The density of the B ring is a few thousand times higher, so<BR>&gt; the particles are not that far apart.&nbsp; I was surprised to find that<BR>&gt; out.<BR><BR>So am I!<BR><BR>I'd love to see some imagery from inside the rings. Probably the only<BR>place in the system that comes close to the images of "asteroid belts"<BR>in most movies. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 15:28:24 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: They killed Kenny!<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; At 1:21 PM -0500 12/23/00, Michael Houghton wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Howdy!<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Dredging up a long ago thread:<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Bozhe moi! Oni ubbivayat Kenni Ublyodoki!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; wha --?&nbsp; You ingrates had a language thread going on while I was <BR>&gt; away?&nbsp; You -- you -- &lt;sob&gt;<BR><BR>I think I have the significant portions of the thread here:<BR>- --------<BR>"Homines est! Dici omnes! Soylens viridis HOMINES EST!"<BR>- --------<BR>Ningen da!&nbsp; Ningen da!&nbsp; Soylent no midori wa honto ni ningen da!<BR>It's People - It's People - Soylent Green is People!<BR>- --------<BR>(Actually the problem would be to find out which word is appropriate.&nbsp; There<BR>are words for soybeans and words for a host of other soybean products, such<BR>as tofu and miso...&nbsp; "Lentil" might actually be easier to get the right spin<BR>on... except there's not a word for it in any of my dictionaries.&nbsp;&nbsp; I don't<BR>think that's a native Japanese legume.&nbsp; But the Japanese never have any<BR>problem importing foreign words... we got a special script for that called<BR>katakana.&nbsp; Let's try "lentil tofu"...&nbsp; The problem was that I thought<BR>Soylent was an adjective and Green was the noun.)<BR><BR>If green is the adjective we have:<BR><BR>"Ningen da!&nbsp; Ningen da!&nbsp; Midori-iro rentoru no tofu wa honto ni ningen da!"<BR><BR>If not:<BR><BR>"Ningen da!&nbsp; Ningen da!&nbsp; Rentoru no tofu na Midori wa honto ni ningen da!"<BR>- -------<BR>"C'est des gens!&nbsp; Dites tous le monde! Soylente verte EST DES GENS!" <BR>"Est ist Leute!&nbsp; Reden Sie jedemmann!&nbsp; Soylendegr=FCn IST LEUTE!"<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 15:23:56 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Semi-OT: New Honor Harrington story<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Now that I've finally read most of the Honor Harrington series, I like <BR>&gt; it.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; But I still think the Imperium is more like the Familias Regnant in<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; Elizabeth<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; Moon's stories. More corporate and noble politicking, more worlds to <BR>&gt; visit,<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; and more mopery and dopery in the spaceways. YMMV.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Well, the Honor Harrington stuff isn't supposed to be all that<BR>&gt;&gt;"political" other than in the sense of "the politicians create the<BR>&gt;&gt;mess, the military has to try to fix it".<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;But I think the nobles (good and bad) in the stories can easily be used<BR>&gt;&gt;in the Imperium.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Technologically, it would twist either universe beyond recognition to <BR>&gt; try and equate them. However, if anyone is mad enough to try, i think <BR>&gt; the Solarian League is the Imperium substitute while the Star Kingdom <BR>&gt; of Manticore and the People's Republic of Haven are pocket empires.<BR><BR>I know the technology is incompatible. But you could drop Earl North<BR>Hollow into Traveller as a noble and not cause any difficulties. Except<BR>for when the PCs run into him or get on his bad side (I can't picture<BR>any PCs getting on his "good" side, except by accident! :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3460<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-xb01.mx.aol.com (rly-xb01.mail.aol.com [172.20.105.102]) by air-xb03.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Sun, 24 Dec 2000 19:05:28 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-xb01.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Sun, 24 Dec 2000 19:05:12 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id TAA41055;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Sun, 24 Dec 2000 19:03:12 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Sun, 24 Dec 2000 19:03:00 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id TAA41025<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Sun, 24 Dec 2000 19:03:00 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 19:03:00 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012250003.TAA41025@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3460<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3461</B></TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Monday, December 25 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3461<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: Walter Koenig (RE: Low standards)<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: the perfect 2d system (next on the list, just after we find the Holy Grail)<BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>[www] 24 Dec 2000 - Freelance Traveller Updated<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 17:03:07 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>&gt;From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>...<BR>&gt;The question is not, "To use, or not to use a 2D system".<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;The question is, "How can every point of my character's Stat, and every<BR>point of<BR>&gt;his Skill, influence and determine the roll I'm about to make?"<BR><BR>&nbsp; By using percentile dice :&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 17:24:15 -0800<BR>From: "Zane H. Healy" &lt;healyzh@aracnet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Walter Koenig (RE: Low standards)<BR><BR>&gt;On Fri, 22 Dec 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; I believe the B5 effects were all created using an app called Video Toast.<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Can Anyone confirm?<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Video Toaster. On the Amiga.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; But there may be hardware involved too.<BR><BR>I think that the initial work was done with Lightwave on the Amiga, but<BR>they soon switched to faster machines such as DEC Alpha's running Windows<BR>NT.&nbsp; I know for a while NT on a Alpha was the platform of choice for such<BR>graphics work.<BR><BR>&gt;Not likely. The Amiga topped out at a 68040 version, I believe, or maybe a<BR>&gt;68030, pretty low powered for video editing and FX on a weekly production<BR>&gt;schedule. Any Amiga running today is _at least_ ten years old, and waaaay<BR>&gt;past it's prime.<BR><BR>Uh, the Amiga *TOPS* out with a PowerPC processor, and you can still buy<BR>new Amiga's (based on a roughly 7-8 year old design).&nbsp; The latest version<BR>of the OS was released about a week ago, and is V3.9.&nbsp; There is active<BR>development on new hardware and software with a brand new line of systems<BR>expeced in the next year.<BR><BR>&gt;That was amazing for it's day, a truly astonishing piece of hardware, but<BR>&gt;we're several generations beyond the original Toaster these days...<BR><BR>Yes, and yes.<BR><BR>&gt;The Video toaster is capable of the FX you see in cheap local furniture<BR>&gt;store commercials, titling, wipes, fades and suchlike, but for B5 (or<BR>&gt;anything on that scale) they use much more sophisticated software and<BR>&gt;hardware, which is not a lot more expensive than the original Video<BR>&gt;Toaster setup.<BR><BR>I've not used a Toaster, but I thought it was capable of a lot more than<BR>that.&nbsp; It sounds almost as if you're talking about a GENLOCK.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Zane<BR><BR>- --<BR>| Zane H. Healy&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | UNIX Systems Administrator |<BR>| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary)&nbsp; &nbsp; | OpenVMS Enthusiast&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR>| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)&nbsp; | Classic Computer Collector |<BR>+----------------------------------+----------------------------+<BR>|&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,&nbsp; &nbsp; |<BR>|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; and Zane's Computer Museum.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR>|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 12:50:21 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; I'm still not quite sure why you think 2D systems are inherently<BR>&gt; &gt; different from variable-D systems.<BR><BR>&gt; What I am saying is this:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; With a 2D system such as CT or MT, you have an abstract game mechanic of a 2D<BR>&gt; roll.&nbsp; Nothing about the character creates this roll for you--everybody gets the<BR>&gt; roll.&nbsp; It is common across the board.&nbsp; Success is equal for every character no<BR>&gt; matter his abilities or skills.<BR><BR>That's why I was interested in your reaction to a system where you<BR>have differently-numbered dice.&nbsp; A set of skill dice numbered skill+1<BR>to skill+6 for each skill, and a set of difficulty dice, numbered<BR>Target-1 to Target-6 for each difficulty.&nbsp; The player rolls the<BR>appropriate skill die, and the GM rolls the appropriate difficulty<BR>die.&nbsp; Compare skill die result with difficulty die.&nbsp; If the difference<BR>meets or exceeds Stat/5, it's a sucess.<BR><BR>Is this "inherently different" from MT's dice mechanic?&nbsp; If not, why<BR>not?<BR><BR><BR>&gt; I think systems should be more DETERMINED by the character.&nbsp; I want to shift<BR>&gt; success chance from a base on an abstraction to a base on the character.<BR><BR>That's why I think you consider the dice system to be a primary aspect<BR>of the game, not just its effect.&nbsp; To me, if two systems have the same<BR>distribution of outcomes, they are fundamentally identical.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Not easy to do with a system that has an attribute range 2-3 times<BR>&gt; &gt; greater than the skill range.<BR><BR>&gt; You know....I think you just game me a compliment...I think...<BR><BR>I did indeed; I know how hard it is to combine two very disparate<BR>ranges of numbers in a game system without having one overwhlem the<BR>other.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; PS What is it about the use of Stats in KB3 that you don't like?<BR>&gt; (curiosity)<BR><BR>The way you have to roll under them to get greater successes.&nbsp; I don't<BR>like systems that disadvantage people with higher skill when other<BR>things are equal.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 12:56:14 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Now, if you take the same two characters and use the multi-dice T4 system, you<BR>&gt; WILL see a difference in their throws.&nbsp; The Stat-5, Skill-2 character always has<BR>&gt; to roll less than 7.&nbsp; The Stat-9, Skill-2 character always has to roll less than<BR>&gt; 11.<BR><BR>To me, a stat-9 skill-2 character has an effective skill of 11.<BR>Stat-5 skill-2 has effective 7.&nbsp; The number of dice rolled has nothing<BR>to do with it.&nbsp; It could be 2D6, D100 or Ceil[Log[Stat/Skill]]D31.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 12:59:08 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I'm with you. A low, fixed number of dice is simple, so are systems<BR>&gt; like Trinity or Aberrant where you roll stat+skill dice.&nbsp; Anything<BR>&gt; else is honestly more complex than I want to use.<BR><BR>Have you tried Amber (diceless)?&nbsp; :^)<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 13:32:06 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Have you honestly looked at KB3?&nbsp; It is much more simple to use than<BR>&gt; the MT system you are fond of (I like the MT system too--it's just<BR>&gt; that KB3 is an easier system AND provides more detailed results than<BR>&gt; MT does).<BR><BR>Um, KB3 might do what you want better than MT but there's absolutely<BR>no way I'll agree that it's simpler or easier.<BR><BR>Consider a Difficult task, Skill 2, Stat 8.<BR><BR><BR>MT:<BR><BR>Roll 2D -&gt; 3,5<BR>Add them to your skill and stat modifier -&gt; 11<BR>Compare with fixed target -&gt; success<BR><BR><BR>KB3:<BR><BR>Roll SkillD6 and Event die -&gt; 4,1,6<BR>Check event die. It was 6, so double all even numbers -&gt; 8,1,12<BR>Add them -&gt; 21<BR>Roll DifficultyD6 (including event die) -&gt; 2,4,1<BR>Check event die.&nbsp; It was 1, so throw out odd numbers -&gt; 2,4<BR>Add them -&gt; 6<BR>Compare with skill result -&gt; Success<BR>Compare skill result with attribute -&gt; not Greater Success<BR>Compare skill result with double attribute -&gt; Marginal Success<BR><BR><BR>Do you still maintain that KB3 is easier to use?<BR><BR><BR>&gt; When a person needs to roll something, he looks down at character<BR>&gt; sheet for his skill level and rolls that number of dice +1.<BR><BR>Including the event die, which you have to look at before you do the<BR>addition since it modifies the raw results.&nbsp; Sometimes you have to<BR>double the even numbers before ading, sometimes you have to remove the<BR>odd dice.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; You roll against a target number or another roll,<BR><BR>Again including the event die and its follow-on effects on the other<BR>dice.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; and if you beat that target number or roll, you look at the total<BR>&gt; that's laying in front of you and compare it to your stat to see how<BR>&gt; well you did.<BR><BR>You also compare it to double your stat if the first test fails.<BR><BR>Otherwise (ie. if you fail), you subtract the stat from the difficulty<BR>throw, and compare it to your skill result.&nbsp; Make sure to keep all<BR>these throws and resulting numbers in your head at each stage, because<BR>there's a good chance you'll need them at a later stage.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Do you honestly think that's more difficult than dividing your skill<BR>&gt; by 5, dropping fractions, adding that number to your skill, then<BR>&gt; adding that sum to your 2D dice roll versus a target number?<BR><BR>Yes.&nbsp; Obviously so, even.&nbsp; The stat modifier is trivial to<BR>predetermine, even write on your character sheet if you're not so<BR>great at mental math.&nbsp; The rest consists of a single addition of 4<BR>single-digit numbers and a comparison with a fixed number.<BR><BR>KB3 involves at least 2 additions of up to 6 single-digit numbers<BR>each, with a good possibility that you'll have to split them into<BR>odd/even and multiply one group of by 2 or remove the other first, at<BR>least 2 comparisons with variable numbers, and a very good chance of<BR>another comparison with either a subtraction of variables or a<BR>doubling of another variable.<BR><BR>I know which I'd find easier.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 13:37:18 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: the perfect 2d system (next on the list, just after we find the Holy Grail)<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Would you go to a really dumb doctor who's been doing it for 20<BR>&gt; years over a brilliant young new specialist who just graduated at<BR>&gt; the top of his class from the Harvard Medical School?<BR><BR>I've never met a really dumb doctor, they don't tend to pass medical<BR>school.&nbsp; i.e. Stats help determine skill.&nbsp; And that's where they<BR>should stay -- in character creation.<BR><BR>And yes.&nbsp; Doctors fresh out of medical school (no matter how good) in<BR>general have a history of making dumb mistakes that experienced<BR>doctors made and learned from years ago.&nbsp; Check some figures on<BR>malpractice suits.&nbsp; They are *far* more common against bright young<BR>graduates.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 14:04:15 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; If you are using it passively, it isn't "radar".<BR><BR>It isn't RAdio Detection And Ranging?&nbsp; :^)<BR><BR>&gt; And I did say "radio sources".<BR><BR>You did, but you doubted that ships would have the equipment.&nbsp; I was<BR>just pointing out that radar would be standard on a lot of ships.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; The problem is that you aren't going to get *precise* positions for the<BR>&gt; stars. For a given size of "dish" the precision drops as the wavelength<BR>&gt; goes up, reaching zero around the time that the wavelength hits the<BR>&gt; width of the dish.<BR><BR>So your position at the other end of jump is only accurate to tens of<BR>millions of kilometres instead of a few hundred thousand.&nbsp; No great<BR>deal, just adds a bit extra travel time.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Also, how do you know which star is which? Most stars aren't all that<BR>&gt; bright at microwave wavelengths anyway.<BR><BR>You look at your astrogation database, of course.&nbsp; Find out which<BR>position and orientation gives you the distribution you're seeing.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Note the size of dish required to "image" stars for radio<BR>&gt; astronomy...<BR><BR>For stars thousands of parsecs away, yes.&nbsp; You only need to know where<BR>a few local stars are.<BR><BR><BR>[...neutrinos...]<BR>&gt; Again the problem is identifying the source. Is that source star X or<BR>&gt; star Y. Or supernova Z?<BR><BR>You've got an astrogation database -- use it.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Yes, quite likely.&nbsp; I was only pointing out that we haven't actually<BR>&gt; &gt; measured the density of any such asteroids.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Sure we have. What fo you think meteorites *are*? :-)<BR><BR>We've measured some fragments of what was left of them after passing<BR>through the atmosphere, yes.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; I have a 3 cm nickel iron one right here... <BR><BR>Nifty!&nbsp; Did you catch it yourself?&nbsp; :^)<BR><BR><BR>&gt; That's what I had in mind. With the right arrangement of bodies you<BR>&gt; might be able to jump, but only in certain directions.<BR><BR>I suspect tidal stress would disrupt the 'jump bubble' formation no<BR>matter which direction the stress was greatest.&nbsp; Hmm -- unless your<BR>ship is very thin, or something ...<BR><BR><BR>&gt; That's what I was thinking of, The 2e-13 contour for a ring system out<BR>&gt; to look interesting. Just remember that the way the vectors add<BR>&gt; produces some odd results.<BR><BR>Vectors?&nbsp; I wish it was that easy.&nbsp; Tidal stresses are the eigenvalues<BR>of the Hessian matrix of the gravitational potential.&nbsp; Which produces<BR>even more odd results, of course.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; After all, there's *no* decrement to the field from a flat sheet!<BR><BR>Yes, you might be able to jump across the surface of an Alderson disk<BR>or Dyson sphere without encountering a "100D" jump limit.&nbsp; Of course,<BR>the stress *increases* as you get further away (up to a point), so you<BR>most likely wouldn't be able to enter or leave via jump.<BR><BR>I've done some calculations on a Dyson sphere that isn't perfectly<BR>homogeneous.&nbsp; I'm working on inhomogeneous ring systems now.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; *Hopefully* the oddities will mostly cancel before the point we are<BR>&gt; interested in.<BR><BR>It seems that tidal stress from the planet overwhelms tidal stress<BR>from homogeneous annular rings.&nbsp; Rings of variable density make the<BR>calculations a nightmare, though.&nbsp; I'm running some numerical<BR>integrations in the background as I type.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt; The density of the B ring is a few thousand times higher, so<BR>&gt; &gt; the particles are not that far apart.&nbsp; I was surprised to find that<BR>&gt; &gt; out.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; So am I!<BR><BR>In fact, it looks like the ring has a density comparable to Earth's<BR>atmosphere at sea level (although not gaseous, of course).<BR><BR><BR>&gt; I'd love to see some imagery from inside the rings. Probably the only<BR>&gt; place in the system that comes close to the images of "asteroid belts"<BR>&gt; in most movies. <BR><BR>The Cassini probe should be able to give a pretty good picture of<BR>what's there when it gets to Saturn in 2004.&nbsp; (It's near Jupiter right<BR>now, closest approach in 5 days!)<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 14:05:13 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>Steven Hudson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;The question is, "How can every point of my character's Stat, and<BR>&gt; &gt;every point of his Skill, influence and determine the roll I'm<BR>&gt; &gt;about to make?"<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; By using percentile dice :&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;Ick, gack, choke!&gt;<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 22:37:19 -0500<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: [www] 24 Dec 2000 - Freelance Traveller Updated<BR><BR>Freelance Traveller, the Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller Resource has<BR>posted its most recent update to http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller and<BR>http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/Default.htm.&nbsp; <BR><BR>In this update:<BR><BR>- Chapter nine of _The_Hostile_Stars_, Fred Ramen's ongoing serial story,<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; has been posted to Raconteur's Rest. <BR><BR>- Daniel Phelps has profiled "Janusa" and Akhal Sakum in Up Close and<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Personal. <BR><BR>- Ken Pick describes a system for handling electronic countermeasures in<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Traveller. Read about it in Doing It My Way. <BR><BR>Your questions, comments, and ideas are always welcome at Freelance<BR>Traveller.&nbsp; Please write to freelancetraveller@yahoo.com with any and all<BR>of them, as we are in the process of reconfiguring the forms, and they may<BR>be temporarily disabled.&nbsp; Freelance Traveller depends on the good will of<BR>Traveller fans both to visit our site and justify our existence, and to<BR>write for us, making our existence possible.<BR><BR>Freelance Traveller is mirrored at http://w3.execnet.com/jeffz.<BR><BR>Freelance Traveller wishes to extend its thanks and appreciation to The<BR>Traveller Downport (http://www.downport.com) and to Executive Network<BR>Information Systems (http://www.execnet.com) for hosting services. Without<BR>organizations willing to cooperate with Freelance Traveller's ever-growing<BR>needs, we would be unable to bring you the articles and other resources<BR>that have made Freelance Traveller one of the premier Traveller sites on<BR>the 'net.<BR><BR><BR>Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture <BR>Enterprises, 1977-2000.&nbsp; Use of the trademark in <BR>this notice and in the referenced materials is not <BR>intended to infringe or devalue the trademark.<BR><BR><BR>Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture <BR>Enterprises, 1977-2000.&nbsp; Use of the trademark in <BR>this notice and in the referenced materials is not <BR>intended to infringe or devalue the trademark.<BR><BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin, Editor<BR>Freelance Traveller - The Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller Resource<BR>http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller<BR>http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/Default.htm<BR>freelancetraveller@yahoo.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 22:12:03 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>Timothy Little wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; That's why I was interested in your reaction to a system where you<BR>&gt; have differently-numbered dice.&nbsp; A set of skill dice numbered skill+1<BR>&gt; to skill+6 for each skill, and a set of difficulty dice, numbered<BR>&gt; Target-1 to Target-6 for each difficulty.&nbsp; The player rolls the<BR>&gt; appropriate skill die, and the GM rolls the appropriate difficulty<BR>&gt; die.&nbsp; Compare skill die result with difficulty die.&nbsp; If the difference<BR>&gt; meets or exceeds Stat/5, it's a sucess.<BR><BR>I think that's interesting.&nbsp; You could use different colored or different sized die<BR>for a "skill die" and a "target die".&nbsp; You always add the skill die, and you always<BR>subtract the target die.<BR><BR>I actually like that a lot.<BR><BR>The only part I'm not fond of is the Stat/5 thingy.&nbsp; The last time I spoke to Marc<BR>Miller on the phone about the T5 task system, he said that he is not partial to<BR>multiplying and dividing things. I couldn't agree more with him.&nbsp; It makes games too<BR>complicated--not intuitive enough--difficult to run.<BR><BR>And, when you divide like that, you end up with the problem I mentioned before of<BR>having "stat groups" where the result of a Stat-1 and a Stat-4 is the same...a Stat-5<BR>and a Stat-9 is the same, etc.<BR><BR>If you could figure a way to use a character's full stat, making him unique based on<BR>his attributes, I think the idea has some merit.<BR><BR>It's definitely one of the best ideas I've seen in this task discussion.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 22:18:33 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>Timothy Little wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; PS What is it about the use of Stats in KB3 that you don't like?<BR>&gt; &gt; (curiosity)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The way you have to roll under them to get greater successes.&nbsp; I don't<BR>&gt; like systems that disadvantage people with higher skill when other<BR>&gt; things are equal.<BR><BR>I've been thinking about this since you first brought it up.&nbsp; I know that, for most<BR>throws, people *will* use their full dice--because they will need them just to be<BR>successful on the throw.<BR><BR>Still, those occasions will pop up, no matter how infrequent, where a Skill-5 dude<BR>will want to make an Easy task.&nbsp; I said before that, when this situation occurs, the<BR>higher skill the character has, the more choice he has in making it.<BR><BR>That's what doesn't sit well with you, and I'll admit I'm not quite sure I'm<BR>completely in love with that aspect of KB3 either.&nbsp; A person should not be penalized<BR>for having a high skill--he should be rewarded.<BR><BR>What if I showed you a way, using KB3, that a person with high skill *is not*<BR>penalized in this manner under ANY circumstance?<BR><BR>What would you think of that?<BR><BR>If I could show you how to do that, do you think KB3 would sit better with you?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 22:23:57 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>Timothy Little wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Now, if you take the same two characters and use the multi-dice T4 system, you<BR>&gt; &gt; WILL see a difference in their throws.&nbsp; The Stat-5, Skill-2 character always has<BR>&gt; &gt; to roll less than 7.&nbsp; The Stat-9, Skill-2 character always has to roll less than<BR>&gt; &gt; 11.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; To me, a stat-9 skill-2 character has an effective skill of 11.<BR>&gt; Stat-5 skill-2 has effective 7.&nbsp; The number of dice rolled has nothing<BR>&gt; to do with it.&nbsp; It could be 2D6, D100 or Ceil[Log[Stat/Skill]]D31.<BR><BR>THAT'S EXACTLY MY POINT!<BR><BR>The argument was focussed on 2D systems versus multi-dice systems, and (Frank, I think<BR>it was) said that there is no difference in 2D systems and multidice systems.<BR><BR>My reply was that the focus should not be on 2D systems vs Multi-dice systems.&nbsp; The<BR>focus should be on developing a system where all of a character's stat, and all of his<BR>skill is used to determine his success.<BR><BR>My example above shows how T4 did this (abeit the system greatly overpowered stats),<BR>and I was comparing that system to the MT system where a character does not retain a<BR>benefit from his full stat.<BR><BR>Frank said there was no difference.&nbsp; I was showing him the difference.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 22:28:39 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>Timothy Little wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Have you tried Amber (diceless)?&nbsp; :^)<BR><BR>Never tried it.&nbsp; What does it use, cards or something?<BR><BR>I've seen a deck of playing cards used to determine success.&nbsp; The character's stats<BR>were listed in "pulls" (meaning pulls from the deck).<BR><BR>Basically, the GM shuffles a deck of normal playing cards, and when a character<BR>needs to do something, he looks at his stat (or skill, I forget) and pulls a number<BR>of cards equal that number.<BR><BR>I forgot how the cards are rated, but different cards mean different things (and<BR>cards like one-eyed Jacks..or the suicide king..or something like that meant crit<BR>failure/crit success).<BR><BR>It was interesting.&nbsp; Not my cup of tea (I mean--the cards basically just replace<BR>dice--it's a similar mechanic, and they even had a conversion system to the<BR>d10--why bother?).<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 23:03:40 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>Timothy Little wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Um, KB3 might do what you want better than MT but there's absolutely<BR>&gt; no way I'll agree that it's simpler or easier.<BR><BR>Really.&nbsp; Hmm.&nbsp; Maybe its just that you know MT like the back of your hand, and<BR>you're just learning KB3--it's new.<BR><BR>It is easier.&nbsp; And, you're leaving out steps under the MT system because you know<BR>it so well.&nbsp; I'll use your example to show you.<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; Consider a Difficult task, Skill 2, Stat 8.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; MT:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Roll 2D -&gt; 3,5<BR>&gt; Add them to your skill and stat modifier -&gt; 11<BR>&gt; Compare with fixed target -&gt; success<BR><BR>You forgot a step.&nbsp; You don't know what your modifier is until you divide.<BR><BR>And, your example is unfair to KB3 because you take steps to figure success.&nbsp; You<BR>have to figure success with MT too, but you didn't list that as a step.<BR><BR>More properly, MT is:<BR><BR>(1)&nbsp; Roll 2D....3, 5...total of 7<BR>(2)&nbsp; Divide governing stat by 5, drop fractions...+1<BR>(3)&nbsp; Add stat mod with skill mod to get new total...10<BR>(4)&nbsp; Compare with target number.....success<BR><BR>(5)&nbsp; THEN...you have to compare your roll to the target number...<BR><BR>...is the number 2+ over the target number?....Exceptional Success<BR>...is the number 2- under the target number?....Exceptional Failure<BR>...was snake eyes rolled?....Fumble/Automatic Failure<BR>...in combat, was the target number rolled exactly?...Marginal Success<BR><BR><BR>KB3, on the other hand, looks like involves these steps...<BR><BR>(1)&nbsp; Roll SkillD6 and E-Die....4, 1, 6...total of 21 (because a 6 on the E-Die<BR>means double all evens)<BR>(2)&nbsp; Compare to difficulty number...or total of difficulty roll....success<BR><BR>(3)&nbsp; THEN...you compare your roll to your Stat...<BR><BR>...is successful roll less than Stat?....Greater Success<BR>...is successful roll less than difficulty + Stat?....Success<BR>...is successful roll higher than difficulty + Stat?...Marginal Success<BR>...is failure roll higher than difficulty - Stat?....Failure<BR>...is failure roll lower than difficutly - Stat?....Greater Failure<BR>...does failure roll equal 0 or less?....Fumble<BR><BR><BR>See, MT is done in 4 steps with a 5th step in which you compare.&nbsp; KB3 is done in<BR>half that--two steps, with a 3rd step in which you compare.<BR><BR>KB3 *is* easier.&nbsp; And, in KB3, you don't have to figure your Stat/5 (which is<BR>something you may have to do more than once if you are wounded under the MT<BR>system).<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Do you still maintain that KB3 is easier to use?<BR><BR>Yes I do.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Including the event die, which you have to look at before you do the<BR>&gt; addition since it modifies the raw results.<BR><BR>Sure, you have to look at the E-Die.&nbsp; You have to look at the dice!&nbsp; The E-Die<BR>effect does not take more effort than pure addition...it's the same amount of<BR>effort, contained in the same step as adding the 2D together in MT.<BR><BR>At a glance, any role player can tell...<BR><BR>...is the E-Die a "6"...OK, I'll add all evens, double them, and add in any left<BR>over odd die.<BR>...is the E-Die a "1"...OK, I'll just remove all odds from the board and add<BR>anything that is left.<BR>...is the E-Die a "2-5"...OK, I'll just add normally.<BR><BR>This is the same step as adding your die total together in MT.&nbsp; If you insist in<BR>making it a step, KB3 is *still* easier in that you are not dividing stats, and KB3<BR>will still be one step shorter than MT.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt; You roll against a target number or another roll,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Again including the event die and its follow-on effects on the other<BR>&gt; dice.<BR><BR>This is not a player step--just like deciding what the difficulty is in MT is not a<BR>player step.<BR><BR>In MT, the GM decides on a difficulty.<BR><BR>In KB3, the GM decides on a difficulty...or he can roll a difficulty&nbsp; (he has a<BR>choice).<BR><BR>It's the same GM step for both sides--there's just more choice for the GM under<BR>KB3.<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; Yes.&nbsp; Obviously so, even.&nbsp; The stat modifier is trivial to<BR>&gt; predetermine, even write on your character sheet if you're not so<BR>&gt; great at mental math.<BR><BR>You'll have to recalculate Str, Dex, and End if you are wounded...don't bother<BR>writing it on your sheet.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3461<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; 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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yd01.mx.aol.com (rly-yd01.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.1]) by air-yd03.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Mon, 25 Dec 2000 00:29:31 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yd01.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Mon, 25 Dec 2000 00:28:59 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id AAA65083;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Mon, 25 Dec 2000 00:06:07 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Mon, 25 Dec 2000 00:05:36 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id AAA65013<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Mon, 25 Dec 2000 00:05:35 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 00:05:35 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012250505.AAA65013@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3461<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Monday, December 25 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3462<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: the perfect 2d system (next on the list, just after we find the Holy&nbsp; Grail)<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Tim Little<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 23:05:41 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: the perfect 2d system (next on the list, just after we find the Holy&nbsp; Grail)<BR><BR>Timothy Little wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I've never met a really dumb doctor, they don't tend to pass medical<BR>&gt; school.<BR><BR>I have.&nbsp; I used to sell medical supplies.&nbsp; People are people.&nbsp; It takes all kinds.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 22:07:14 -0800<BR>From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Have you honestly looked at KB3?&nbsp; It is much more simple to use than<BR>&gt; the MT system you are fond of (I like the MT system too--it's just<BR>&gt; that KB3 is an easier system AND provides more detailed results than<BR>&gt; MT does).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; When a person needs to roll something, he looks down at character<BR>&gt; sheet for his skill level and rolls that number of dice +1.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; That's it.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; If he's got a level-2 skill, he'll roll 3D.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; You roll against a target number or another roll, and if you beat that<BR>&gt; target number or roll, you look at the total that's laying in front of<BR>&gt; you and compare it to your stat to see how well you did.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Do you honestly think that's more difficult than dividing your skill<BR>&gt; by 5, dropping fractions, adding that number to your skill, then<BR>&gt; adding that sum to your 2D dice roll versus a target number?<BR><BR>It has two sets of die rolls, where most systems use only one.&nbsp; The <BR>double rolling is not to may taste, I find it both far too random, and <BR>too much work.&nbsp; Modifiers like Stat/5 are easy, you merely design <BR>a character sheet that puts them in a prominant place.&nbsp; When I've <BR>played MT in the past (far too many years past these days, I <BR>always thought of my PC's stats more as their bonuses.&nbsp; I find it <BR>much more elegant to think of 0 Str, +2 Dex, &amp; +1 Edu... than 4 <BR>Str, 11 Dex, &amp; 8 Edu.<BR><BR>As I see it, the only thing MT really lacks is a good autosuccess <BR>system.&nbsp; One thought I had was to give eash difficulty level a <BR>number code:<BR><BR>1 = Easy<BR>2 =&nbsp; Routine<BR>3 = Diffiult<BR>4 = Formidable<BR>5 = Impossible<BR><BR>Then, if a character has a skill level equals to or greater than this <BR>number, they automatically succeed (without needing to roll) at any <BR>task which does not require time pressure (ie this rule cannot be <BR>used in combat or in other rushed or emergency situations). <BR><BR>If using this system, you would also want to prohibit skill levels <BR>above 5, but I've always done that (we pick skills, since we all find <BR>that rolling for skills greatly interferes with developing an interesting <BR>character concept).<BR><BR>Autosuccess rules greatly reduce pointless die rolling, and allow <BR>experts to perform as effectively they should while still making <BR>exciting action scenes as exciting and doubt-ridden as they should <BR>be.<BR><BR>In any case, I think you and I have radically different priorities in <BR>game systems.&nbsp; Making every point of a stat count doesn't matter <BR>particularly to me.&nbsp; It looks like an interesting system, but not at all <BR>to my taste.<BR><BR>- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 22:23:12 -0800<BR>From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; I'm with you. A low, fixed number of dice is simple, so are systems<BR>&gt; &gt; like Trinity or Aberrant where you roll stat+skill dice.&nbsp; Anything<BR>&gt; &gt; else is honestly more complex than I want to use.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Have you tried Amber (diceless)?&nbsp; :^)<BR><BR>To me, low randomness and *no* randomness have very different <BR>feels.&nbsp; I like some randomness in my games.&nbsp; W/o the excitement <BR>of unexpected failure or success games seem dull.&nbsp; Also, Amber <BR>Diceless (which I tried briefly) is a bad combination of decision <BR>solely by GM fiat, and enforced PC competition. It seems a great <BR>system for getting everyone annoyed at each other.&nbsp; <BR><BR><BR>- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 22:23:12 -0800<BR>From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Timothy Little wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Um, KB3 might do what you want better than MT but there's absolutely<BR>&gt; &gt; no way I'll agree that it's simpler or easier.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Really.&nbsp; Hmm.&nbsp; Maybe its just that you know MT like the back of your<BR>&gt; hand, and you're just learning KB3--it's new.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; It is easier.&nbsp; And, you're leaving out steps under the MT system<BR>&gt; because you know it so well.&nbsp; I'll use your example to show you.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Consider a Difficult task, Skill 2, Stat 8.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; MT:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Roll 2D -&gt; 3,5<BR>&gt; &gt; Add them to your skill and stat modifier -&gt; 11<BR>&gt; &gt; Compare with fixed target -&gt; success<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; You forgot a step.&nbsp; You don't know what your modifier is until you<BR>&gt; divide.<BR><BR>Except that you don't.&nbsp; You write down as soon as you generate <BR>the character.&nbsp; Having to divide on the fly is a wretched idea (which <BR>is why I never modified stats from damage).&nbsp; However, if the <BR>modifiers are constant, then they are just as easy to use as the <BR>stats themselves.&nbsp; If you can read the number directly off of the <BR>character sheet, then no additional work is involved.<BR><BR>- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 16:53:48 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Have you tried Amber (diceless)?&nbsp; :^)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Never tried it.&nbsp; What does it use, cards or something?<BR><BR>Nothing.&nbsp; The outcome is deterministic or GM-adjudicated, depending on<BR>the situation.&nbsp; Like it less now?&nbsp; :^)<BR><BR><BR>[...card mechanic...]<BR>&gt; It was interesting.&nbsp; Not my cup of tea (I mean--the cards basically<BR>&gt; just replace dice--it's a similar mechanic, and they even had a<BR>&gt; conversion system to the d10--why bother?).<BR><BR>I agree -- not much point at all.&nbsp; Although it would be easier for<BR>situations like camping or travelling where it can be a real pain to<BR>find something suitable for rolling dice on.&nbsp; (Trying to roll dice on<BR>a coach is an exercise in frustration, and losing dice is a real<BR>possibility)<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 00:51:42 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; It has two sets of die rolls, where most systems use only one.<BR><BR>Then use the KB3 static target numbers.&nbsp; You don't have to use a difficulty<BR>throw.<BR><BR>BTW, the target numbers are the exact same as they are in MT.<BR><BR><BR><BR>So...in KB3....<BR><BR>(1)&nbsp; You throw a number of dice equal to your skill level plus the E-Die.<BR>(2)&nbsp; You compare that throw with the following static difficulty numbers<BR><BR>Easy...3+<BR>Average....7+<BR>Difficult....11+<BR>Formidable...15+<BR>Staggering....19+<BR>Impossible...23+<BR><BR>(3)&nbsp; Just like in MT, you have to compare the number you rolled to find how<BR>well you did (in MT, you compare your number to the difficulty.&nbsp; In KB3, you<BR>compare it to your stat).<BR><BR><BR><BR>So, there you go.&nbsp; You've got a system like MT...that requires less steps<BR>than MT...that doesn't require you to divide stats like MT...that provides<BR>benefit for every stat unlike MT.<BR><BR>What do you think of that?<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 00:52:23 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; As I see it, the only thing MT really lacks is a good autosuccess<BR>&gt; system.<BR><BR>And it groups Stats to gether in bunches, providing a beneficial modifier for<BR>a group of stats rather than having each stat become benificial to the<BR>character in its own right.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Then, if a character has a skill level equals to or greater than this<BR>&gt; number, they automatically succeed<BR><BR>In MT, snakes results in a fumble, no matter the target number.<BR><BR>You could easily just reverse this.&nbsp; Boxcars always results in success, no<BR>matter the target number.<BR><BR>That might be a simpler way to go using MT rather than your<BR>comparing-difficulty-number-code system.<BR><BR>Just a suggestion...<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Making every point of a stat count doesn't matter<BR>&gt; particularly to me.&nbsp; It looks like an interesting system, but not at all<BR>&gt; to my taste.<BR><BR>Taste I can't argue with--percentages, probabilities, ease of use, and<BR>mechanic representation I can.<BR><BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 00:54:56 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Except that you don't.&nbsp; You write down as soon as you generate<BR>&gt; the character.&nbsp; Having to divide on the fly is a wretched idea (which<BR>&gt; is why I never modified stats from damage).<BR><BR>So, you've changed MT then.&nbsp; You don't play it straight out of the box.&nbsp; You<BR>have your own hybrid.<BR><BR>Just curious...how do you do record damage then?<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; However, if the<BR>&gt; modifiers are constant, then they are just as easy to use as the<BR>&gt; stats themselves.&nbsp; If you can read the number directly off of the<BR>&gt; character sheet, then no additional work is involved.<BR><BR>This is true, but you're back to the use of the full stat problem...<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 00:57:28 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; You write down as soon as you generate<BR>&gt; the character.&nbsp; &nbsp; If you can read the number directly off of the<BR>&gt; character sheet, then no additional work is involved.<BR><BR>BTW, in KB3, you don't have to write ANY additional information down on your<BR>character sheet.&nbsp; Your skill and stat, AS IS, tell you all you need to know.<BR><BR>Not even the work of writing something extra on the character sheet is<BR>involved.&nbsp; 8-&gt;<BR><BR>And...this is great for GMs when they see NPCs listed in modules and<BR>supplements with just their stats and skills listed.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 17:03:11 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; That's what doesn't sit well with you, and I'll admit I'm not quite<BR>&gt; sure I'm completely in love with that aspect of KB3 either.&nbsp; A<BR>&gt; person should not be penalized for having a high skill--he should be<BR>&gt; rewarded.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; What if I showed you a way, using KB3, that a person with high skill<BR>&gt; *is not* penalized in this manner under ANY circumstance?<BR><BR>I'd be a lot happier with it.<BR><BR>One kludge that would work would be to allow the player to remove dice<BR>(except the E-die) after rolling and finding out the difficulty.<BR><BR>This would give the high-skill character more options, since they have<BR>a greater choice of dice to remove.&nbsp; Even for trivial difficulty, they<BR>could still get unlucky and end up with an unremovable '12' on their<BR>skill roll.<BR><BR><BR>- - Tim<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 00:59:33 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>Timothy Little wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Never tried it.&nbsp; What does it use, cards or something?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Nothing.&nbsp; The outcome is deterministic or GM-adjudicated, depending on<BR>&gt; the situation.&nbsp; Like it less now?&nbsp; :^)<BR><BR>Yeah...I don't think that one would make the KB hall of fame.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 17:08:17 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; My reply was that the focus should not be on 2D systems vs<BR>&gt; Multi-dice systems.&nbsp; The focus should be on developing a system<BR>&gt; where all of a character's stat, and all of his skill is used to<BR>&gt; determine his success.<BR><BR>OK, that wasn't clear from the example of 2D + skill being compared to<BR>a target number.&nbsp; I'd call that a case where every point of skill is<BR>used to determine success, just like skillD6 vs DifficultyD6.<BR><BR>Regarding stats, yes.&nbsp; MT doesn't make use of every point of stats.<BR>Given that it has stats included at all, I agree with you that it<BR>would be a little better if every point counted, so long as other<BR>desirable features like ease-of-use weren't compromised.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 17:16:22 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR><BR>[...skill die vs difficulty die...]<BR>&gt; I think that's interesting.&nbsp; You could use different colored or<BR>&gt; different sized die for a "skill die" and a "target die".&nbsp; You<BR>&gt; always add the skill die, and you always subtract the target die.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I actually like that a lot.<BR><BR>It's also absolutely identical to the MT system in outcome.&nbsp; Apart<BR>from the fact that it is harder to use than MT, I would consider it to<BR>be the same system with only different 'colour'.&nbsp; Not surprising,<BR>since I designed it to be identical yet have much of the same 'colour'<BR>as KB3.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; The only part I'm not fond of is the Stat/5 thingy.<BR><BR>I'm not perfectly happy with it either.&nbsp; That's one of the smaller<BR>reasons I prefer GURPS over MT :^)<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 01:25:45 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>Timothy Little wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; What if I showed you a way, using KB3, that a person with high skill<BR>&gt; &gt; *is not* penalized in this manner under ANY circumstance?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I'd be a lot happier with it.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; One kludge that would work would be to allow the player to remove dice<BR>&gt; (except the E-die) after rolling and finding out the difficulty.<BR><BR>Your previous posts have encouraged me to iron out another wrinkle in<BR>KB3.&nbsp; (Have I said I LOVE THIS LIST!)<BR><BR>And, our discussions have had a positive impact on the development and<BR>beta-test of the new system.&nbsp; How does it feel to be directly responsible<BR>for helping me perfect a system you're not *yet* crazy about!<BR><BR>8-&gt;<BR><BR>and double &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>You were on the right track above.&nbsp; KB3 now has static target numbers for<BR>GMs who do not prefer the random difficulty throw...and KB3 will now let<BR>you get full benefit from your high skill level ALL THE TIME!<BR><BR>Here's how:<BR><BR>Whenever a player makes a throw (any throw) he has a choice.<BR><BR>(1)&nbsp; He can throw all of his dice in the task throw normally.&nbsp; (D6 = skill<BR>level + E-Die)<BR><BR>(2)&nbsp; He can use part of his skill level to *increase* his stat, making it<BR>easier for him to obtain Greater Success.&nbsp; (1D minimum on task throw--the<BR>E-Die)<BR><BR>(3)&nbsp; He can use part of his skill level to *decrease* his difficulty.<BR>It's a negative DM applied to either the static target number or the<BR>difficulty throw.&nbsp; (1D minimum on task throw--the E-Die)<BR><BR>(4)&nbsp; A player can choose any combination of the above, as long as he<BR>always throws at least 1D on the task.<BR><BR><BR><BR>EXAMPLE OF OPTION 1:<BR>Fred, with Dex-7, Pistol-5, is making a Formidable throw to hit a moving<BR>target at a long distance.<BR><BR>He throws 6D&nbsp; (vs a target number of 15 or a difficulty throw of 4D).<BR><BR>If his throw is under or equal to 7, he makes Greater Success.<BR><BR><BR><BR>EXAMPLE OF OPTION 2:<BR>Fred now wants to change targets, firing at someone very close.&nbsp; It's an<BR>Easy throw, and he has to throw against 3+ or 1D.<BR><BR>Fred decides to throw 2D and uses the other 3 points of his skill to<BR>increase his Dex stat for measuring purposes.<BR><BR>If Fred's throw is under or equal to 10, he makes Greater Success.<BR><BR><BR><BR>EXAMPLE OF OPTION 3:<BR>Fred is making an Average throw now, shooting at a target running away<BR>from him.&nbsp; An Average throw is either a static target number of 7+ or<BR>determined with a difficulty throw of 2D.<BR><BR>Fred decides to throw 3D, using the other two points from his skill level<BR>to reduce his difficulty.&nbsp; He is now rolling against 5+ or a 2D -2<BR>difficulty throw.<BR><BR>If Fred's throw is under or equal to 7, he makes Greater Success.<BR><BR><BR><BR>EXAMPLE OF OPTION 4:<BR>Fred misses using the Average throw above, and he shoots again.<BR><BR>This time, Fred still uses 3D on this throw, but he uses one of his skill<BR>points to reduce difficulty and the other to increase his stat for<BR>measuring purposes.&nbsp; Fred is now rolling 3D vs a static target number of<BR>6+ or a difficulty throw of 2D -1.<BR><BR>If Fred's throw is under or equal to 8, he makes Greater Success.<BR><BR><BR><BR>WADDA YA THINK OF DAT!<BR><BR><BR>(KB3 is all about options and making people happy.&nbsp; The static number guys<BR>now have their target numbers to roll against.&nbsp; The people who like the<BR>thrill of randomness can still use the original difficulty throw.&nbsp; And, a<BR>person's FULL SKILL is not put to use in ways the player finds best.)<BR><BR>It's easy.&nbsp; It's results specific.&nbsp; It doesn't take hardly any work.&nbsp; It's<BR>flexible.&nbsp; It uses character's stats and skills right off their sheet.<BR><BR>I think we're developing one bad-ass Traveller system here!<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 01:32:55 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>Timothy Little wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; I'd call that a case where every point of skill is<BR>&gt; used to determine success, just like skillD6 vs DifficultyD6.<BR><BR>You know....I really do like that single die system you've come up with.&nbsp; I think<BR>it's elegant.<BR><BR>I may have to put my noggin to work figuring out how best to take advantage of that<BR>system with regards to Traveller.&nbsp; If you do work on it, I'd like to see more.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Regarding stats, yes.&nbsp; MT doesn't make use of every point of stats.<BR>&gt; Given that it has stats included at all, I agree with you that it<BR>&gt; would be a little better if every point counted, so long as other<BR>&gt; desirable features like ease-of-use weren't compromised.<BR><BR>I think we're finding some common ground.&nbsp; This discussion has been good for us<BR>(different opinions without getting ugly on the TML!&nbsp; Imagine that!)<BR><BR>No.&nbsp; I've enjoyed our talks.&nbsp; It's been creative, and I've stretched my mind on<BR>some ideas.&nbsp; KB3 even got some wrinkles ironed out (and I am now glad I posted it<BR>before I playtested it!).<BR><BR>We agree on the desirable feature of every stat counting for something as long as<BR>ease-of-use is not compromised.<BR><BR>Believe me.&nbsp; I am the king of ease of use.&nbsp; I love systems that are elegant and<BR>easy to use yet detailed in their results.<BR><BR>You should really look at the examples I posted for you showing the change I made<BR>to KB3 with regard to high skill levels.<BR><BR>I think you'll be amazed at the system's ease of use.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 01:35:35 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>Timothy Little wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; Not surprising,<BR>&gt; since I designed it to be identical yet have much of the same 'colour'<BR>&gt; as KB3.<BR><BR>Probably the reason I really like it.&nbsp; I understand where it is coming from, and I<BR>like how each skill level determines a character's success.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt; The only part I'm not fond of is the Stat/5 thingy.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I'm not perfectly happy with it either.&nbsp; That's one of the smaller<BR>&gt; reasons I prefer GURPS over MT :^)<BR><BR>Now...if we could just get your idea to work with every stat point<BR>contributing...I'd be really, really happy with it.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 23:39:50 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>&gt;From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>...<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;The question is, "How can every point of my character's Stat, and<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;every point of his Skill, influence and determine the roll I'm<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;about to make?"<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; By using percentile dice :&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;Ick, gack, choke!&gt;<BR><BR>No, you're quite right - d20 would be a far superior choice to any multi-<BR>die system - although some would say that TNE sucked regardless :&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 01:43:25 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Tim Little<BR><BR>Tim-<BR><BR>Wasn't it you who said they had a program that could figure<BR>probabilities and such?<BR><BR>If so, I would like to *test* the static target numbers I came up with<BR>for KB3.&nbsp; I need to make sure those are the correct target numbers to<BR>use with the system.<BR><BR>It seems to me that the E-Die will average out, and the target numbers<BR>should be the exact same as those used in MT.<BR><BR>3+&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Easy<BR>7+&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Average<BR>11+&nbsp;&nbsp; Difficult<BR>15+&nbsp;&nbsp; Formidable<BR>19+&nbsp;&nbsp; Staggering<BR>23+&nbsp;&nbsp; Impossible<BR><BR><BR>To *test* this, could your run your program, testing for averages of the<BR>KB3 difficulty throws?&nbsp; I think you said you could include the effect of<BR>the E-Die in your simulation.<BR><BR>For easy reference, the random difficulty throws in KB3 are:<BR><BR>1D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Easy<BR>2D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Average<BR>3D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Difficult<BR>4D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Formidable<BR>5D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Staggering<BR>6D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Impossible<BR><BR><BR>What I need is the *average* number obtained, rolling those dice, using<BR>the E-Die.<BR><BR>Can you confirm my results above or suggest different numbers?<BR><BR>Thanks,<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 01:44:37 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>Steven Hudson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; No, you're quite right - d20 would be a far superior choice to any multi-<BR>&gt; die system - although some would say that TNE sucked regardless :&gt;<BR><BR>Why do you say that, Steve?<BR><BR>Personal preference?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 19:06:10 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR>&gt; Really.&nbsp; Hmm.&nbsp; Maybe its just that you know MT like the back of your<BR>&gt; hand, and you're just learning KB3--it's new.<BR><BR>I've only played MT once, 5 years ago.&nbsp; I don't even have the books,<BR>which is why I make the occasional mistake in remembering it.<BR><BR>&gt; You forgot a step.&nbsp; You don't know what your modifier is until you divide.<BR><BR>You do that at character creation.&nbsp; Besides, it's a fixed division so<BR>that even if you haven't done it earlier, it's typically just a matter<BR>of looking whether the stat gives +0 to +2.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; And, your example is unfair to KB3 because you take steps to figure<BR>&gt; success.&nbsp; You have to figure success with MT too, but you didn't<BR>&gt; list that as a step.<BR><BR>Yes I did, under 'compare with target number'.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Sure, you have to look at the E-Die.&nbsp; You have to look at the dice!<BR>&gt; The E-Die effect does not take more effort than pure addition...it's<BR>&gt; the same amount of effort, contained in the same step as adding the<BR>&gt; 2D together in MT.<BR><BR>The E-Die is indeed a lot more effort than simple addition when it<BR>comes up 1 or 6.&nbsp; You have to identify which of all the rest of the<BR>numbers are odd and even, and deal with them differently.&nbsp; Which<BR>calculation is easier:<BR><BR>MT: 3+6 = 9<BR><BR>KB3: 3,2,5,6E -&gt; 2 and 6 are even, so double their sum -&gt; (2+6)*2 =<BR>16, now the odds 3+5-&gt;8, 16+8-&gt;24.<BR><BR>Now do the same again for the difficulty ...<BR><BR><BR>&gt; At a glance, any role player can tell...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ...is the E-Die a "6"...OK, I'll add all evens, double them, and add in any left<BR>&gt; over odd die.<BR><BR>And you think this is precisely as easy as 3+6=9?<BR><BR>&gt; ...is the E-Die a "1"...OK, I'll just remove all odds from the board and add<BR>&gt; anything that is left.<BR><BR>...meaning you have to identify which ones are odd and either mentally<BR>exclude them or physically remove them before you can even start to<BR>add.<BR><BR>&gt; ...is the E-Die a "2-5"...OK, I'll just add normally.<BR><BR>... which makes it no easier and no harder than 2d6 + skill.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; This is the same step as adding your die total together in MT.&nbsp; If<BR>&gt; you insist in making it a step, KB3 is *still* easier in that you<BR>&gt; are not dividing stats,<BR><BR>Dividing a variable by a small fixed number is easier than adding two<BR>variables, in my opinion.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; and KB3 will still be one step shorter than MT.<BR><BR>No, it is still at least one step longer, even if you think "take all<BR>evens, add them, double the result, add in the odds" is just as easy<BR>as "add all dice".<BR><BR><BR>&gt; It's the same GM step for both sides--there's just more choice for<BR>&gt; the GM under KB3.<BR><BR>... and more effort if they actually use the system as written.&nbsp; Also<BR>note that your system varies quite a bit in its behaviour if you don't<BR>roll for difficulty compared to if you do.&nbsp; Comparable in effect to<BR>dropping stat modifiers in MT and rolling one die with different<BR>target numbers.<BR><BR>i.e. If you're allowed to say this, then I'm allowed to say that in MT<BR>you can just roll 1d6+skill and compare with a different set of target<BR>numbers.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; You'll have to recalculate Str, Dex, and End if you are<BR>&gt; wounded...don't bother writing it on your sheet.<BR><BR>How often do your characters get wounded?&nbsp; If so, that applies to both<BR>systems.&nbsp; MT uses fixed integer division, KB uses variable 2-digit<BR>subtraction.&nbsp; I'd still prefer MT's simplicity even if all else was<BR>equally simple (and KB is more complex in the rest as well).<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3462<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; 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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-zb01.mx.aol.com (rly-zb01.mail.aol.com [172.31.41.1]) by air-zb05.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Mon, 25 Dec 2000 03:30:24 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-zb01.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Mon, 25 Dec 2000 03:30:00 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id DAA79477;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Mon, 25 Dec 2000 03:04:24 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Mon, 25 Dec 2000 03:04:15 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id DAA79442<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Mon, 25 Dec 2000 03:04:14 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 03:04:14 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012250804.DAA79442@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3462<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Monday, December 25 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3463<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Skills in CT (was Re: The Perfect 2d6 System)<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: Skills in CT (was Re: The Perfect 2d6 System)<BR>Initiative Question<BR>Re: Tim Little<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System (single vs multi-die)<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Mini Series<BR>Re: Initiative Question<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>Re: The Nth Task War Continues...<BR>Re: jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 00:09:35 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Skills in CT (was Re: The Perfect 2d6 System)<BR><BR>&nbsp; To put this squarely in CT rules* terms, where do the faithful<BR>draw the line with skill levels getting silly? Assuming book 4-8<BR>chargen, do you expect to have to have a resolution _system_ to<BR>cover characters with skill levels of 4+? Or 5+? <BR><BR>* and remember, CT _does_ rule :&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 02:35:16 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>Timothy Little wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; You do that at character creation.<BR><BR>Yes, but your Str, Dex, and End scores change if you are wounded.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; Besides, it's a fixed division so<BR>&gt; that even if you haven't done it earlier, it's typically just a matter<BR>&gt; of looking whether the stat gives +0 to +2.<BR><BR>Yes, but the point is, under KB3, you DON'T have to do this.<BR><BR>And, KB3 gives you the added benefit of value for ever level of stat.<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; The E-Die is indeed a lot more effort than simple addition when it<BR>&gt; comes up 1 or 6.<BR><BR>I disagree.&nbsp; The calculation is not hard at all.&nbsp; I'll use your examples.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; You have to identify which of all the rest of the<BR>&gt; numbers are odd and even, and deal with them differently.&nbsp; Which<BR>&gt; calculation is easier:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; MT: 3+6 = 9<BR><BR>The KB3 Quick Play Tip:&nbsp; When a "6" appears on the E-Die, simply add all even dice,<BR>double that number, then add the rest of the dice.<BR><BR>At a glance, I can tell that the KB3 result on your two dice listed above is 15.<BR><BR>I can add that in my head as fast as I can add to the MT total of 9.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Now do the same again for the difficulty ...<BR><BR>A player won't have to do this for difficulty.&nbsp; The GM will.<BR><BR>And, as it seems some of you Traveller players like to go up against static target<BR>numbers--simply don't use the difficulty roll under KB3.<BR><BR>Use the static target numbers just like in MT!<BR><BR>KB3 is flexible now.&nbsp; You can choose to go with a random target number or a static<BR>target number.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; ... and more effort if they actually use the system as written.&nbsp; Also<BR>&gt; note that your system varies quite a bit in its behaviour if you don't<BR>&gt; roll for difficulty compared to if you do.<BR><BR>That's true of most systems that give you the option of using either a static target<BR>number or a random one.&nbsp; (Star Wars is an example of a system that uses both.&nbsp; DUNE is<BR>an example of a system that uses both.)<BR><BR>Typically, your static target numbers are the "average" of the random difficulty<BR>throws.<BR><BR>If you don't like an opposing difficulty throw, then use only the static target<BR>numbers.&nbsp; Or, use the difficulty throw on some situations and the standard target<BR>numbers on others.<BR><BR>The point is:&nbsp; Under KB3, you have CHOICE.&nbsp; You don't have to use that choice, if you<BR>don't want to.&nbsp; It's your game!&nbsp; If you want to keep it down and dirty and<BR>simple--just use the static target numbers!<BR><BR><BR><BR>WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE RANDOM DIFFICULTIES......<BR><BR>Here's another feature that KB3 has that MT doesn't.<BR><BR>You can go all static target number with KB3 if you want to (static target numbers<BR>like MT), but if you use a random difficulty number, your characters will "always have<BR>a chance--no matter how small".<BR><BR>If you've got a guy with a Stat-7 and a Skill-1, this person will still have a CHANCE<BR>(albeit a small one) to make even an Impossible task throw.<BR><BR>It's very, very low probability (as it should be), but it is possible.<BR><BR>Under the MT system, a character with Stat-7, Skill-1 CAN NEVER hope to make an<BR>Impossible throw, no matter what.&nbsp; It just can't happen unless some other outside<BR>modifers are applied to boost the number up.<BR><BR>KB3 random target numbers allow for that very small percentage chance that David will<BR>get very, very lucky and actually hit Goliath with his sling.<BR><BR>If David were using the MT system, he'd be SOL.<BR><BR>8-&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&gt; How often do your characters get wounded?&nbsp; If so, that applies to both<BR>&gt; systems.<BR><BR>No.&nbsp; Under MT, a wound to one of your physical attributes will probably make you<BR>recalcute your stat bonus.&nbsp; Under KB3, this is not true.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; I'd still prefer MT's simplicity even if all else was<BR>&gt; equally simple (and KB is more complex in the rest as well).<BR><BR>You'd still prefer MT even if I proved KB3 was equally simple?<BR><BR>What do you mean by that?<BR><BR>If KB3 was equally simple, and KB3 gave you better results in terms of stat benefit,<BR>why would you prefer MT?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 02:38:53 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Skills in CT (was Re: The Perfect 2d6 System)<BR><BR>Steven Hudson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; To put this squarely in CT rules* terms, where do the faithful<BR>&gt; draw the line with skill levels getting silly? Assuming book 4-8<BR>&gt; chargen, do you expect to have to have a resolution _system_ to<BR>&gt; cover characters with skill levels of 4+? Or 5+?<BR><BR>I've use CT generation extensively over the years (both by hand and by<BR>using computer programs).&nbsp; I've *never* seen a skill level 8 on a<BR>character.&nbsp; I'm sure it can happen, I've just never created one myself<BR>using the CT system.<BR><BR>Now, I have seen a few (very few) level 7 skills, and level 6 or less is<BR>not that uncommon.<BR><BR>I'd say, as a general rule of thumb, CT skills range from 0-6, with 7+<BR>occurring only very, very, very rarely.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; * and remember, CT _does_ rule :&gt;<BR><BR>I friggin' love CT.<BR><BR>(KB3 is an *awesome* task system to use with CT, but the way!!!!!)<BR><BR><BIG>&lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 03:08:34 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Initiative Question<BR><BR>The KB3 Traveller system has _greatly_ benefitted from the discussion<BR>here on the TML.&nbsp; As a direct result of my discussions here on this<BR>list, KB3 now incorporates...<BR><BR>...static target numbers (to give GMs a choice if they are not partial<BR>to KB3's random difficulty numbers)....thanks to a bunch of TMLers!<BR><BR>...a clean method for rolling "stat-only" throws (if you need to make a<BR>Dex check to keep from falling or a Str check to break open a door,<BR>etc)....thanks to Eris!<BR><BR>...more CHOICE of advantages provided by a character's expertise in a<BR>particular skill (allowing you to use your skill level to determine the<BR>dice your throw...reduce your difficulty...or raise your stat for<BR>measuring your success)....thanks to Tim Little!<BR><BR><BR>PROGRESS!<BR><BR>DISCUSSIONS LIKE THESE ARE WHAT THE TML IS ALL ABOUT!<BR><BR><BR>Now...<BR><BR>I bring up a new topic, and I'm looking for input and opinions.<BR><BR><BR>xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR>(Initiative)<BR><BR>The KB3 system needs an initiative throw.&nbsp; Initiative determines which<BR>character acts first in the round.<BR><BR>My logic on this matter is that initiative should be determined, in<BR>large part, by character natural ability...but a hint of randomness<BR>should be thrown in to cover the wild generic, unnamed conditions that<BR>can have an influence on when a character acts.<BR><BR>So...<BR><BR>I think that a character should have an "Initiative Number" determined<BR>by his Stats, and when a character throw for initiative at the beginning<BR>of a round, he throws 1D plus this Initiative Number.<BR><BR>The highest total goes first...and so on....<BR><BR><BR>Initiative Number for a character should be determined by adding the<BR>character's Dex and End scores.&nbsp; This Base Initiative should be modified<BR>by a few factors.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Initiative = 1D + Base Initiative<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Base Initiative = Dex + End + Military Bonus + Leadership<BR>Bonus<BR><BR><BR><BR>Military Bonus:&nbsp; Characters who have been in the military have been<BR>trained to act quickly while under fire.&nbsp; These characters received a +1<BR>bonus to their Base Initiative, AND they recive an additional +1 bonus<BR>for each term of service they completed.&nbsp; (If the character failed a<BR>survival throw during chargen, award the +1 for term if the character<BR>served 3+ years).<BR><BR>Leadership Bonus:&nbsp; If a character has the Leadership skill, he can add<BR>his skill leve to his Base Initiative score.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Example:&nbsp; Baron Vaan Preygor has spent his whole life governing the<BR>world of Tureded (Noble career during chargen).&nbsp; He has a Dex 5 and an<BR>End 5.&nbsp; And Preygor has Leadership-1.<BR><BR>Preygor's Base Initiative:&nbsp; 11<BR><BR>When rolling at the beginning of the round, Preygor rolls 1D + 11<BR><BR><BR><BR>Example:&nbsp; Gvoudzon has spent 12 years with the Kforuzeng Corsair Band<BR>before moving into a stretch of 8 years with the Aegzaeng splinter<BR>group.&nbsp; He has Dex 8 and End 8.&nbsp; Leadership is a default skill<BR>(Leadership-0).<BR><BR>Gvoudzon's Base Initiative:&nbsp; 22<BR><BR>When rolling at the beginning of the round, Gvoudzon rolls 1D + 22<BR><BR><BR><BR>Comments, suggestions, opinions on this aspect of KB3?<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 20:23:26 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Tim Little<BR><BR>On Mon, Dec 25, 2000 at 01:43:25AM -0600, Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR>&gt; Tim-<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Wasn't it you who said they had a program that could figure<BR>&gt; probabilities and such?<BR><BR>Yes, that's me.<BR><BR>&gt; For easy reference, the random difficulty throws in KB3 are:<BR><BR>Difficulty&nbsp; Dice Mean&nbsp; Median<BR>- ----------&nbsp; ---- ----&nbsp; ------<BR>Easy&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1D&nbsp;&nbsp; 4.3&nbsp;&nbsp; 3.5<BR>Average&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2D&nbsp;&nbsp; 7.8&nbsp;&nbsp; 7<BR>Difficult&nbsp;&nbsp; 3D&nbsp;&nbsp; 11.3&nbsp; 11<BR>Formidable&nbsp; 4D&nbsp;&nbsp; 14.8&nbsp; 14<BR>Staggering&nbsp; 5D&nbsp;&nbsp; 18.3&nbsp; 18<BR>Impossible&nbsp; 6D&nbsp;&nbsp; 21.8&nbsp; 21<BR><BR><BR>&gt; What I need is the *average* number obtained, rolling those dice, using<BR>&gt; the E-Die.<BR><BR>The problem is that there are different meanings of "average".<BR>Commonly used ones are mean and median.&nbsp; For normal nD6, they are the<BR>same.&nbsp; For KB3 dice, they are a bit different.<BR><BR>The mean is what you typically get when you roll a whole bunch of<BR>dice, add them up, and divide by the total number.&nbsp; The median is the<BR>number on the boundary between "high" and "low" halves, or the average<BR>of the higher and lower if the division happens to fall exactly<BR>between two of them.<BR><BR>I'm guessing that you are more interested in the median, since if you<BR>replace the difficulty roll by a single number, this is the one that<BR>divides the possible rolls evenly between "higher" and "lower".<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Can you confirm my results above or suggest different numbers?<BR><BR>Your numbers aren't too far off the medians for each difficulty.&nbsp; I'd<BR>stick with them since they're easy to remember, following a simple<BR>pattern.<BR><BR><BR>- - Tim<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 01:42:17 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System (single vs multi-die)<BR><BR>&gt;From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>...<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; No, you're quite right - d20 would be a far superior choice to any multi-<BR>&gt;&gt; die system - although some would say that TNE sucked regardless :&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Why do you say that, Steve?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Personal preference?<BR><BR>&nbsp; It's the conclusion of a wargame mechanism design rant - multi-die<BR>(whether 2 or N) resolution largely restricts the ref to one action<BR>(/attack) being diced at a time.<BR><BR>&nbsp; With a single die (preferably a d20, for granularity - particularly<BR>important in an RPG!) approach you can resolve _lots_ of homogenous <BR>(or not, within reasonable limits) attacks simultaneously; I can play<BR>a platoon of infantry _and_ up to a company of armour at single figure<BR>scale (! - Striker aims for fire team only) using single dice (d6 or<BR>d20, etc), but we'd likely need nearly twice the time to finish with <BR>even a 2d6 system, let alone _Shadowrun_ -type weirdness.<BR><BR>&nbsp; And yes, I converted our _Striker (CT)_ group to d20 years ago :&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; Or was that a question about whether TNE really sucked or not? <BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Steven Hudson<BR><BR>The CT Creed: There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its Product<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 20:48:43 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; At a glance, I can tell that the KB3 result on your two dice listed above is 15.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I can add that in my head as fast as I can add to the MT total of 9.<BR><BR>Do it with 3 dice, and with 6 dice, and tell me again how it is just<BR>as fast.&nbsp; Yes, in one particular case it is almost as fast, i.e. when<BR>the number of dice is 2 or less.&nbsp; I will however admit that it is<BR>faster for unskilled characters rlling only the E-die.&nbsp; Not for any<BR>other case.<BR><BR>I bet if I gave a randomly-selected roleplayer 100 rolls to make under<BR>each system with varying skill levels from 0 to 6, the one rolling<BR>2D+skill would complete the task more quickly and accurately than the<BR>one rolling under KB3.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; A player won't have to do this for difficulty.&nbsp; The GM will.<BR><BR>Doesn't matter.&nbsp; It doesn't make it any easier to use if you have to<BR>coordinate rolls between GM and player.&nbsp; You're also presuming that<BR>the GM doesn't have to roll for any NPCs doing tasks.<BR><BR><BR>[... Advantage of random difficulties...]<BR>&gt; If you've got a guy with a Stat-7 and a Skill-1, this person will<BR>&gt; still have a CHANCE (albeit a small one) to make even an Impossible<BR>&gt; task throw.<BR><BR>True under GURPS too, which has fixed difficulties.&nbsp; In fact, it is<BR>purely a consequence of the distribution of outcomes, independent of<BR>the method used to obtain that distribution.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt; How often do your characters get wounded?&nbsp; If so, that applies to both<BR>&gt; &gt; systems.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; No.&nbsp; Under MT, a wound to one of your physical attributes will<BR>&gt; probably make you recalcute your stat bonus.&nbsp; Under KB3, this is not<BR>&gt; true.<BR><BR>Under KB3 you have to do comparisons with twice your attribute and/or<BR>subtract your attribute from the difficulty.&nbsp; In the former case,<BR>that's a new number to calculate every time the stat changes.&nbsp; In the<BR>latter case, it's a new calculation every time, regardless of wounds.<BR>In fact MT's modifier doesn't always change with changes in stats.<BR>KB3's always does.<BR><BR>So MT is simpler again, or the same if you ignore the effort required<BR>to do such trivial modifications once or twice per session at most.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; I'd still prefer MT's simplicity even if all else was<BR>&gt; &gt; equally simple (and KB is more complex in the rest as well).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; You'd still prefer MT even if I proved KB3 was equally simple?<BR><BR>I was commenting on the simplicity of calculating the effect of stats.<BR>I believe MT's method of dealing with stats is simpler than KB3's,<BR>making it overall simpler even if the rest of the system was equal<BR>between the two of them.&nbsp; However, MT is in fact simpler in all the<BR>aspects of the task resolution system, not just in stats.<BR><BR>And no, I dislike MT's task system.&nbsp; It's simpler than KB3, that's its<BR>only advantage in a comparison of the two.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 01:55:31 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>&gt;From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>...<BR>&gt;If using this system, you would also want to prohibit skill levels <BR>&gt;above 5, but I've always done that (we pick skills, since we all find <BR>&gt;that rolling for skills greatly interferes with developing an interesting <BR>&gt;character concept).<BR><BR>&nbsp; Downside of digest format - embarrassingly, you answered my<BR>question before I asked it :)<BR><BR>&nbsp; Not that skills of level 4+ (?) were common under CT, let alone<BR>level six!<BR><BR>&nbsp; So, for those looking solely at Book 1, how simple can a CT <BR>skill (/task) system retrofit be made? Use of stats is optional :)&nbsp; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 09:26:39 -0600<BR>From: Leslie Bates &lt;lesbates@minn.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Mini Series<BR><BR>- --=====================_977779599==_<BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<BR><BR><BR>- --=====================_977779599==_<BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<BR><BR>ARRIVAL VENGEANCE, an eight hour mini-series<BR><BR><BR>Part One: Friends In High Places<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; "The problem with having friends in high places is that they will on<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; occasion call on you for assistance."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- Commander Margaret Sterling, Imperial Navy, Retired<BR><BR>Maggie Sterling is the owner-captain of a far trader (with experience in operating<BR>outside of areas protected by the Domain Navy) and former corsair hunter who is<BR>personally called back by Norris to be the XO on the ARRIVAL VENGEANCE<BR>mission. (MS has connections to Naval Intelligence and may have been personally<BR>involved in the recovery of a certain Imperial Warrant.)<BR><BR>The first episode opens with the big assassination scene and covers the period from<BR>the beginning of the mission to the stop at Daibei.<BR><BR><BR>Part Two: Commerce and Conscience<BR><BR>The second episode covers the trip to and stop at Delphi.<BR><BR><BR>Part Three: Death Premise<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; "We do not take orders from murderers."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- Captain Margaret Sterling, Domain of Deneb Navy.<BR><BR>The third episode covers the disastrous visit to Cadion.<BR><BR>The captain is killed on the ground by one of Lucan's MOJ thugs.<BR><BR>MS assumes command and uses the ship's meson gun to erase the MOJ<BR>headquarters from the face of Cadion and then evades pursuit by elements of<BR>Lucan's Navy.<BR><BR><BR>Part Four: The Source Of Authority<BR><BR>The fourth episode covers the meeting with Strephon and the return home, ending<BR>with Norris' speech.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR><BR>- --=====================_977779599==_<BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<BR><BR><BR>====================================<BR>Revolutionaries are not nice people.<BR>==================================== <BR>- --=====================_977779599==_--<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 09:02:09 -0800<BR>From: Tod Glenn &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Initiative Question<BR><BR>on 12/25/00 1:08 AM, Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions at<BR>dreamer@brokersys.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; (Initiative)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The KB3 system needs an initiative throw.&nbsp; Initiative determines which<BR>&gt; character acts first in the round.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; My logic on this matter is that initiative should be determined, in<BR>&gt; large part, by character natural ability...but a hint of randomness<BR>&gt; should be thrown in to cover the wild generic, unnamed conditions that<BR>&gt; can have an influence on when a character acts.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; So...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I think that a character should have an "Initiative Number" determined<BR>&gt; by his Stats, and when a character throw for initiative at the beginning<BR>&gt; of a round, he throws 1D plus this Initiative Number.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The highest total goes first...and so on....<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Initiative Number for a character should be determined by adding the<BR>&gt; character's Dex and End scores.&nbsp; This Base Initiative should be modified<BR>&gt; by a few factors.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Initiative = 1D + Base Initiative<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Base Initiative = Dex + End + Military Bonus + Leadership<BR>&gt; Bonus<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Military Bonus:&nbsp; Characters who have been in the military have been<BR>&gt; trained to act quickly while under fire.&nbsp; These characters received a +1<BR>&gt; bonus to their Base Initiative, AND they recive an additional +1 bonus<BR>&gt; for each term of service they completed.&nbsp; (If the character failed a<BR>&gt; survival throw during chargen, award the +1 for term if the character<BR>&gt; served 3+ years).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Leadership Bonus:&nbsp; If a character has the Leadership skill, he can add<BR>&gt; his skill leve to his Base Initiative score.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>[snip]<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Comments, suggestions, opinions on this aspect of KB3?<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>What about other factors.&nbsp; Tactics?&nbsp; Stealth?&nbsp; Does the leader's initiative<BR>flow to his followers? or is group initiative different? What about<BR>surprise?<BR><BR>Also, I don't think that the range of initiative possible should be too<BR>wide, primarily for the purpose of game play.&nbsp; If a party has one character<BR>will a super high bonus, that character will always act first, regardless of<BR>rules.&nbsp; That really eliminated the role of luck--blind chance-that so often<BR>determines the outcome of these encounters.<BR><BR>In my experience as a GM, Players get really frustrated if one character<BR>always leads the action.<BR><BR>I have stayed (for the most part) with CT's basics 1d^ +1 for tactics,<BR>leader and/or prior military experience.&nbsp; A character with all three can<BR>roll a 9, besting anyone without those skills, but he could roll a 1,2 or 3,<BR>thus a character without those skills could have a chance of beating the<BR>character (the luck factor).<BR><BR>Sure, this is probably not as realistic, but lends itself to roleplay very<BR>nicely.<BR><BR>If you are going to add other factors, the random element added should be<BR>adequate to let a less able character "get the jump" just by luck, if the<BR>role is enough.<BR><BR>Tod<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend"<BR>- -- <BR>Tod L Glenn<BR>webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.solsec.org<BR>http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>http://travellerguns.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 11:55:30 -0500<BR>From: "Daniel Phelps" &lt;phelpsd@gate.net&gt;<BR>Subject: jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR><BR>You wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; - Daniel Phelps has profiled "Janusa" and Akhal Sakum in Up Close and<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Personal.<BR><BR><BR>I really like how you posted these two, especially "Janusa".&nbsp; I figured that<BR>was her Impie Code name by the way.&nbsp; What do you think of the "Elegant<BR>Gentleman" ?&nbsp; I'm less certain of that character sketch, people seem to get<BR>really twitchy about non-canon psi skills.&nbsp; Did you pick up on the pun in<BR>his name?&nbsp; The next sketches I'm thinking about doing are that anti-Vargr<BR>politician, a really evil noble, the head of a secret police organization,<BR>and a "king of the gypsies" type character.&nbsp; Regarding the head of a secret<BR>police organization, what would you say to an psionic suppression<BR>organization with the mission of hunting down and eliminating psionic users<BR>and psi institutes. It could be used as cover for a plot within a plot if it<BR>was itself infiltrated by a second organization with the purpose of<BR>recruiting "willing" psi candidates for covert missions.<BR><BR>Dan<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 11:13:07 -0600<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Nth Task War Continues...<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; No it's not. Lets look at an example - a mechanic fixing a car. Does it<BR>&gt; &gt; really matter how smart the mechanic is ? Or is what matters how <BR>&gt;experienced<BR>&gt; &gt; they are ? I'll go for the really dumb guy who's been doing it for 20 <BR>&gt;years<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Really?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Would you really?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Would you go to a really dumb doctor who's been doing it for 20 years over <BR>&gt;a<BR>&gt;brilliant young new specialist who just graduated at the top of his class <BR>&gt;from<BR>&gt;the Harvard Medical School?<BR><BR>I'd rather have the guy that's been doing it for 20 years. With a mechanic, <BR>yes, intelligence is important, mainly because they can experiment without <BR>killing anyone. Unlike doctors.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;Experience counts (skill level).<BR>&gt;So does a person's natural ability (stats).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;You need both to influence success--not just one or the other.<BR><BR>Yes, but skill is FAR more important that stat. Ask any expert which is more <BR>important. I have heard tell of a man who is a BRILLIANT neurosurgeon but <BR>has to have his wife leave him instructions on how to cook hot dogs.<BR><BR>So, while you're entitled to your own opinion, just know that I'm throwing <BR>my hat in the ring on the skill side of the argument.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>Administrator of the Milieu: 0 Aid Society<BR>http://members.nbci.com/cheebzero/trav_index.htm<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________<BR>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 12:57:33 -0500<BR>From: "Daniel Phelps" &lt;phelpsd@gate.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR><BR>Sorry the previous post was intended to go out privately.&nbsp; As it did not,<BR>any comments in its regard would be appreciated none the less.<BR><BR>Dan<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 12:21:23 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>Timothy Little wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Do it with 3 dice, and with 6 dice, and tell me again how it is just<BR>&gt; as fast.<BR><BR>It takes a little longer to add up 3 dice or 6 dice too--and I can do the KB3<BR>calculation as fast as I can count 3 dice or 6 dice, yes.&nbsp; I'm sure most people can.<BR><BR>- --Add all evens, double, add in rest.<BR><BR>- --Remove all odds from table, add in rest.<BR><BR>It's quick.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; I bet if I gave a randomly-selected roleplayer 100 rolls to make under<BR>&gt; each system with varying skill levels from 0 to 6, the one rolling<BR>&gt; 2D+skill would complete the task more quickly and accurately than the<BR>&gt; one rolling under KB3.<BR><BR>OK.&nbsp; Maybe, if you did give an RPGer a list of a hundred rolls under both systems, I<BR>can see that adding the MT column may be A FEW SECONDS faster.<BR><BR>My point is:&nbsp; We're talking about something that is "close enough for all practical<BR>purposes".<BR><BR>Would you agree that adding KB3 dice is not *significantly* harder to do than adding<BR>MT dice?<BR><BR>Do you really think it takes that much time and effort to where it is a problem?<BR><BR>Is it really an issue?<BR><BR>Or are we discussing moot, nit-picky points?<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; Under KB3 you have to do comparisons with twice your attribute and/or<BR>&gt; subtract your attribute from the difficulty.<BR><BR>Naww...KB3 made a change in that.&nbsp; You're simply adding or subtracting your stat<BR>now--no multiplication or division.<BR><BR>Gotta keep up with the times!&nbsp; &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3463<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-zc01.mx.aol.com (rly-zc01.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.1]) by air-zc04.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Mon, 25 Dec 2000 13:50:44 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-zc01.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Mon, 25 Dec 2000 13:50:30 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id NAA27751;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Mon, 25 Dec 2000 13:24:11 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Mon, 25 Dec 2000 13:23:19 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id NAA27703<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Mon, 25 Dec 2000 13:23:19 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 13:23:19 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012251823.NAA27703@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3463<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></BIG></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3464</B></TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Monday, December 25 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3464<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: The Nth Task War Continues...<BR>Re: Aliens (was Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>re: Lend-Lease (with ObTrav's!!)<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3462<BR>Re: Up Close And Personal (was: jzeitlin@cyburban.com)<BR>re: Who Won, Who Lost<BR>RE: Jodies and other assorted cadences<BR>RE: Jodies and other assorted cadences<BR>re: High velocity AT missile (Striker)<BR>RE: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>RE: Walter Koenig (RE: Low standards)<BR>RE: Aliens (was Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR>Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR>RE: Lend-Lease (with ObTrav's!!)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 12:28:51 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Nth Task War Continues...<BR><BR>James Jensen wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Yes, but skill is FAR more important that stat.<BR><BR>(snip)<BR><BR>You should, for one, like KB3 then.&nbsp; Skills determine success on a task roll.<BR>Stats measure success.<BR><BR>You can have a very, very high stat in KB3 and often be unsuccessful with the<BR>task because you have no or low skill.<BR><BR>If you have a high skill under KB3, you'll often be successful at your task--and<BR>you can even use your skill level to increase your stat before you measure your<BR>success or lower your difficulty to make it easier for you to be successful.<BR><BR>Skill is very important in KB3, and I've separated skills and stats in such a<BR>way that they have different jobs.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 13:48:02 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Aliens (was Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR><BR>At 1:30 PM -0500 12/23/00, knightsky@juno.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;the planet.&nbsp; While the locals are discussing options, Bishop says<BR>&gt;something to the effect of 'drop a nuke on the town.'&nbsp; As the locals are<BR>&gt;horrified, Hicks asks, "I thought you were programmed to preserve human<BR>&gt;life?"<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Bishop pauses, then replies, "I'm taking the long view."<BR><BR>Yeah, you've got a point there.&nbsp; Gibson said he stuck that in <BR>specifically to have a tag line for the film.&nbsp; Here's the section in <BR>question from the screenplay:<BR><BR>&gt;ROSETTI<BR>&gt;We abandon the station.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;HICKS<BR>&gt;Destroy the station, man! We got nukes?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;ROSETTI<BR>&gt;Outlawed under the strategic arms reduction treaty.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;JACKSON<BR>&gt;We can fiddle the overrides on the fusion package. Baby nova.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;BISHOP<BR>&gt;We're dealing with a new form Colonel. We know nothing of this new mode of<BR>&gt;reproduction. Others may have already become hosts.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;ROSETTI<BR>&gt;What are you suggesting?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;BISHOP<BR>&gt;Inorder to be ENTIRELY certain, Colonel, it would be necessary to override the<BR>&gt;fusion package now.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Jackson looks up at Bishop; he's suggesting mass suicide.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;HICKS<BR>&gt;I thought you were programmed to protect human life?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;BISHOP<BR>&gt;(with android blandness) I'm taking the long view.<BR><BR>Reading it back through, it's basically Aliens with no Ripley at all <BR>(just Hicks, Bishop, and some new fodder that's pretty much <BR>carboardized versions of the Nostromo crew), and all the themes of <BR>isolation, aloneness, and family stripped out... all the stuff that <BR>carries the Aliens films along (even the fourth one), IMO.&nbsp; Strictly <BR>shootemup with a little virus-paranoia windowdressing.&nbsp; In that <BR>sense, one must admire its purity.&nbsp; Unclouded by delusions of <BR>character or plot.&nbsp; The fact that there's a Vasquez clone does not <BR>fool me into thinking it would have been a good film. :|<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 10:57:16 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>&gt;From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>...<BR>&gt;&gt; Do it with 3 dice, and with 6 dice, and tell me again how it is just<BR>&gt;&gt; as fast.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;It takes a little longer to add up 3 dice or 6 dice too--and I can do the KB3<BR>&gt;calculation as fast as I can count 3 dice or 6 dice, yes.&nbsp; I'm sure most<BR>people can.<BR><BR>&nbsp; As a _Titan_ (AH) addict, it wouldn't bother me significantly, and most<BR>of the engineers could handle it fairly well. OTOH, I've played with<BR>people who have trouble with 2d6 - and they weren't all in Arts, either :| <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 11:17:14 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: re: Lend-Lease (with ObTrav's!!)<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: RE: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR>...<BR>&gt;&gt; As for the provision of supplies and equipment to the UK, don't forget<BR>&gt;&gt; that we were paying for them. Lend-lease wasn't free. And America was<BR>&gt;&gt; and is a trading nation, it had to sell it's goods somewhere.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Actually Lend-Lease *was* free, but anything remaining after the war had <BR>&gt;to be returned. It replaced the US "Cash and Carry" policy (while neutral <BR>&gt;from a legal standpoint, blatantly pro-allied since the Axis had no capacity <BR>&gt;to do the "Carry" part) when the UK ran out of cash in 41. However, Gen <BR>&gt;Marshall himself remarked that the cost of Lend-Lease was paid for more <BR>&gt;than twice over when the British gave the US the magnatron for free.<BR><BR>&nbsp; The sheer fun of re-fighting the Pacific without the quality of radar<BR>available and no nukes makes on pause; "Tokyo in `48" is hardly a cry <BR>to inspire the GI's...<BR><BR>&nbsp; I'm surprised that no ones ever published a wargame where the British-<BR>Japanese alliance continued into WW 2 - heck, they do _World in Flames_,<BR>which is contra-historical as all hell :&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; FWIW, British reciprocal aid to the US was around the same proportion<BR>of their GNP as US aid to the UK &amp; Empire (The British Economy Since <BR>1945, Cairncross, `92, p.87 n2); I'm not clear (but doubt?) whether that<BR>includes anything like the highest-tech treats &amp; tricks, although I <BR>imagine that mundanities like superior aero-tech is included (if not<BR>the continuing post-war transfers of such).<BR><BR>&nbsp; Anyway, parallels to the situations (plights?) of client-states across<BR>the OTU should be obvious.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Steven Hudson<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 11:31:35 -0800<BR>From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; As I see it, the only thing MT really lacks is a good autosuccess<BR>&gt; &gt; system.<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Then, if a character has a skill level equals to or greater than<BR>&gt; &gt; this number, they automatically succeed<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In MT, snakes results in a fumble, no matter the target number.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; You could easily just reverse this.&nbsp; Boxcars always results in<BR>&gt; success, no matter the target number.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; That might be a simpler way to go using MT rather than your<BR>&gt; comparing-difficulty-number-code system.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Just a suggestion...<BR><BR>I think we're talking about two separate things.&nbsp; By autosuccesses, <BR>I mean that if the character has suficient skill, no roll is required for <BR>the character to succeed at the task, there simply do it.&nbsp; A <BR>character with engineering 2 can fix a minor starship malfunction <BR>with no need to roll, while a character with engineering 5 can fix <BR>almost any probelm on a starship with no possibility for error, as <BR>long as there are enough spare parts, and no significant time <BR>pressure.&nbsp; We've found that dropping rolls when highly skilled <BR>characters attempt non-pressured tasks speeds up the game and <BR>makes skilled PCs feel more compentant. <BR><BR>- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 11:31:34 -0800<BR>From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3462<BR><BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions<BR>&gt; &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt; Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Except that you don't.&nbsp; You write down as soon as you generate<BR>&gt; &gt; the character.&nbsp; Having to divide on the fly is a wretched idea<BR>&gt; &gt; (which is why I never modified stats from damage).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; So, you've changed MT then.&nbsp; You don't play it straight out of the<BR>&gt; box.&nbsp; You have your own hybrid.<BR><BR>True <BR><BR>&gt; Just curious...how do you do record damage then?<BR><BR>I use the wound points (I visiting my folks and don't have my books <BR>at hand), the ones derived from the sum of stats, with separate <BR>numbers for unconsciousness and death.&nbsp; Honestly, it seemed like <BR>there were two separate wound systems in MT (that one and the <BR>reducing stats one).&nbsp; It was easy to drop one, especially since we <BR>always sounds the reducing stats on to be clumsy.<BR><BR>- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; However, if the<BR>&gt; &gt; modifiers are constant, then they are just as easy to use as the<BR>&gt; &gt; stats themselves.&nbsp; If you can read the number directly off of the<BR>&gt; &gt; character sheet, then no additional work is involved.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; This is true, but you're back to the use of the full stat problem...<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 15:49:30 -0500<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Up Close And Personal (was: jzeitlin@cyburban.com)<BR><BR>On Mon, 25 Dec 2000 13:23:19 -0500 (EST), "Daniel Phelps"<BR>&lt;phelpsd@gate.net&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;You wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; - Daniel Phelps has profiled "Janusa" and Akhal Sakum in Up Close and<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Personal.<BR><BR>&gt;I really like how you posted these two, especially "Janusa".&nbsp; I figured that<BR>&gt;was her Impie Code name by the way.&nbsp; What do you think of the "Elegant<BR>&gt;Gentleman" ?&nbsp; I'm less certain of that character sketch, people seem to get<BR>&gt;really twitchy about non-canon psi skills.&nbsp; Did you pick up on the pun in<BR>&gt;his name?&nbsp; The next sketches I'm thinking about doing are that anti-Vargr<BR>&gt;politician, a really evil noble, the head of a secret police organization,<BR>&gt;and a "king of the gypsies" type character.&nbsp; Regarding the head of a secret<BR>&gt;police organization, what would you say to an psionic suppression<BR>&gt;organization with the mission of hunting down and eliminating psionic users<BR>&gt;and psi institutes. It could be used as cover for a plot within a plot if it<BR>&gt;was itself infiltrated by a second organization with the purpose of<BR>&gt;recruiting "willing" psi candidates for covert missions.<BR><BR>I couldn't decide whether that "Janusa" should have been a code name or a<BR>cover name, or who it was issued by, so I just indicated that it was one<BR>that she would respond to.<BR><BR>The 'Elegant Gentleman' I'm holding off on, because of the psi issue; I<BR>wanted to see what others thought of it, and whether you might have had<BR>some ideas for revision.&nbsp; I also wanted to read through canon psi stuff and<BR>see if I could come up with ideas for canonicalizing it without doing<BR>violence to the character concept.<BR><BR>Your other ideas sound interesting; I would recommend not tying the idea of<BR>psi-suppression to the secret police too tightly.&nbsp; There are, after all,<BR>plenty of things that secret police can do, with or without an excuse...<BR><BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>(Ask me via email about the ILink message network!)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 12:51:58 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: re: Who Won, Who Lost<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: re: Who Won, Who Lost<BR>...<BR>&gt;&gt; This is of course partly a consequence of Soviet human wave tactics.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I just love this misunderstanding of Russian tactics. The Russians (and <BR>&gt;Soviets) before them didn't use "human wave" attacks; either in current <BR>&gt;doctrine or during the 2nd WW. The Iranians did during the Iran-Iraq war, <BR>&gt;the Chinese did up until their war with Vietnam in the late 70's, but the <BR>&gt;Russians never did. Russian doctirne attempts to minimise *overall* <BR>&gt;casualties during the course of a campaign. To this end, they are willing to <BR>&gt;accept high local casualties as long as they will lead to lower overall <BR>&gt;casualties. The officers who came up with these tactics were all junior <BR>&gt;officers during the 1st WW and the Russian Civil War and were very deeply <BR>&gt;affected by the terrible casualties of those wars (much like the British, <BR>&gt;French and Germans).<BR><BR>&nbsp; I don't think that anyone's arguing about the nature of late 20th-<BR>century Soviet tactics &amp; doctine (their ability to pull it off being<BR>another issue). But the reports of early WW2 (apart from the pre-War<BR>actions against the Japanese) seem to indicate that at least against<BR>the Germans they had to resort to inefficient and primitive models.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Given the lack of radios, and their recent purgings of the higher<BR>ranks (RCW veterans would be in their very late 30's at best, and<BR>concentrated in the purged echelons) - especially the proponents of<BR>mobile warfare who had returned from Spain - it was hard to see just<BR>what else they were going to do, except possibly not counter-attack<BR>at all (which sounds good, and is good strategically, but not a real<BR>option on the hundred-mile wide battlefield).<BR><BR>&nbsp; Of course, nothing so crazy could happen in the 3I :&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Steven Hudson<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 13:32:25 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: RE: Jodies and other assorted cadences<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Chris Seamans" &lt;semo@pil.net&gt;<BR>...<BR>&gt;&gt;...The same ones also seem to forget that Hitler was elected...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;When Hitler ran against Hindenburg in 1932, he got 30% of the Presidential<BR>vote.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;In the beginning of 1933 he was appointed, not elected, to the Chancellorship.<BR>&gt;Hitler then proceeded to manipulate the worsening situation in Germany to<BR>his &gt;advantage.<BR>...<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; So, while it is barely possible to say that Hitler was "elected", it's also<BR>&gt;important to point out the conditions under which he rose from appointed<BR>&gt;Chancellor to "elected" Fhrer. The event was an election in name only.<BR><BR>&nbsp; It's probably worth pointing out that Hitler's "appointment" as Chancellor<BR>was perfectly normal in a parliamentary system - he was the head of a party<BR>that could hope to form a workable government coalition.<BR><BR>&nbsp; So his legal rise to power (well-timed, as their electoral fortunes were<BR>already beginning to erode) stopped at the Chancellorship, which is where<BR>the incontrovertible anti-constitutional measures began (street-fighting<BR>aside, which was a tradition going back to the start of the Republic).<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Steven Hudson<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 13:33:50 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: RE: Jodies and other assorted cadences<BR><BR>...<BR>&gt;&gt;In the beginning of 1933 he was appointed, not elected, to the Chancellorship.<BR>&gt;&gt;Hitler then proceeded to manipulate the worsening situation in Germany to<BR>his &gt;advantage.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; So his legal rise to power (well-timed, as their electoral fortunes were<BR>&gt;already beginning to erode) stopped at the Chancellorship, which is where<BR>&gt;the incontrovertible anti-constitutional measures began (street-fighting<BR>&gt;aside, which was a tradition going back to the start of the Republic).<BR><BR>&nbsp; Oh, and if you don't see an ObTrav here then you should <BR>go out and read some H. Beam Piper by way of penance :&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 15:44:28 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: re: High velocity AT missile (Striker)<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Why not look into a single-shot missile (well, rocket) with approach<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;velocities in the CPR gun categories, and put the nuke in that?<BR><BR>&nbsp; I fiddled up some (TL 9/A) stats for a Battletech-style mini's game<BR>a couple years back (I play `em, they just don't impress me :&gt; ). The<BR>fire control needs to be on the platform, but man-pack versions could<BR>be SWAGg'ed in short order.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Yes, the Penetration to mass ratio is linear, same as for energy<BR>weapons in Striker, and no, it's not apparent that that's "correct".<BR><BR>" 2) SRM-K - kinetic warhead (within a handling sleeve/ballistic form) with <BR>short-range, hyper-velocity (of course) "dumb" rocket. Target aimpoint selected<BR>as for an AT cannon, and the SRM salvo launched. Missiles "guide" (very limited)<BR>using an internal vane to allow for any off-set between launch position and<BR>target<BR>(some guaranteed with multi-cell launch arrays). Reaches peak velocity of<BR>1.5-2.0<BR>km/s within 500 meters or so and maintains until 4.5 km; this, combined with<BR>short<BR>range (all targets within ~2.5 seconds) and lack of vulnerable external features<BR>makes PD basically impossible - any weapon capable of stopping the attack would<BR>take longer than that to physically be aimed at the incoming flight. "<BR><BR>- each missile masses 5 kilos per 2.5 cm of RHA Penetration (P = 10<BR>per Striker for 2.5, and +8 per doubling thereafter).<BR>- install missile launchers (/magazines) per Striker as usual.<BR><BR>e.g., a fairly heavy missile (deployed from a grav-sled?) might mass<BR>80kg (16x increments) for the round alone, and have range of 2/3/4.5<BR>km, with a Penetration value of 42, doing damage on the KEAP chart.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Optionally, you could include a penalty for very short ranges (-1 to <BR>Penetration per 100m within 500m) or very long ranges (if fire control<BR>permitted; say -2 or 10% to Penetration per 500m past 4500m).<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Steven Hudson, 2000.<BR><BR>The CT Creed: There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its Product<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 12:53:39 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Kenneth Bearden --<BR>&gt; Walker Jane Productions<BR>&gt; Sent: Monday, 25 December 2000 06:11<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "Frank G. Pitt" wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Frankly, it's hard to see _any_ benefit from n dice, except<BR>&gt; that they often<BR>&gt; &gt; give players lots of dice to roll. &lt;grin&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The argument is not n-dice systems vs 2D systems.&nbsp; I am quite<BR>&gt; happy with a 2D<BR>&gt; system as long as the roll of a character is determined by his<BR>&gt; stats and skills<BR>&gt; (see my reply to Tim Little on this).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The question is not, "To use, or not to use a 2D system".<BR><BR>OK, sorry I misunderstood.<BR><BR>&gt; The question is, "How can every point of my character's<BR>&gt; Stat, and every point of his Skill, influence and determine<BR>&gt; the roll I'm about to make?"<BR><BR>The answer to this though, is surprisingly simple.<BR><BR>Add the two together and roll against that value. If you roll under it you<BR>succeed.<BR>The distance you roll under it represents a measure of success (we call it<BR>an 'effect number'".<BR><BR>What you have to do is tune both the die roll and the stats to match.<BR>So, if you want to use 2D6, maximum stat plus maximum skill must equal<BR>either twelve or eleven&nbsp; (depending on whether you want a possibility of no<BR>failure or not.)<BR><BR>If you want stats and skills with higher values you need more or larger<BR>dice. For instance if stats and skills can go to 10, you can use 2D10.<BR><BR>With existing Travleller stats, I'd recommend 3D6, and just arbitrarily rule<BR>that '18' is always a failure, or use the 3D6 open-ended concept I described<BR>before.<BR><BR>For tasks, the ajdudicator assigns a task value before the start of the<BR>task. Diffculty of the task acts as a modifier to the die roll, and the<BR>player must total effect numbers until they break the task total assigned.<BR>If the task is reversible, then negative effect numbers (caused by the<BR>measure of failure, how far over the total you roll) can subtract from the<BR>total.<BR>For some tasks, _any_ failure can result in the abort of the task, requiring<BR>you to start again.<BR><BR>Here's the task sequence we use :<BR><BR>1.&nbsp; &nbsp; The ajudciator determines the Rating (which skill &amp; which stat to roll<BR>against), Difficulty (a plus or minus die modifier), Interval (time in gane<BR>time between die rolls), and Target for the task and states whether the task<BR>is Reversible (negative effect numbers count) or Critical (any failure means<BR>sequence must abort).<BR>2.&nbsp; &nbsp; At the end of each interval, the player makes a Comparison Roll against<BR>the specified Rating, modified by the Difficulty. The player adds the effect<BR>number thus generated to the running total. If the task&nbsp; is not Reversible<BR>then negative effect-numbers are ignored.<BR>3.&nbsp; &nbsp; A fumble occurring gives the gamemaster the option to create a suitable<BR>incident ( such as losing the manuscript or forgetting to tighten a nut )<BR>irregardless of the whether the task is Reversible. (Fumbles in 3D6-open<BR>ended means a negative effect number of 10 or greater)<BR>4.&nbsp; &nbsp; At the gamemaster's discretion, the process may continue after the<BR>running total has exceeded the Target in order to obtain a better result.<BR>Alternatively the player may abort, or may be forced to abort, the task<BR>before reaching the target, possibly resulting in partial completion of the<BR>task.<BR><BR>&gt; So far, the only way I've been able to make this concept work is to use a<BR>&gt; multi-dice system.&nbsp; If I could figure a way to make it work with<BR>&gt; a 2D system,I'd go that way.<BR><BR>One possibilty (sticking withy 2D6, rather than going to 3d6, is to make the<BR>skill roll the _average_ of stat and skill. This does mean (in Traveller)<BR>that skill has more effect han Stat, though I'd argue that this _should_ be<BR>the case. A skilled swordsman will take out an opponent with better<BR>dexterity but lower skill most of the time.<BR><BR>&gt; I will illustrate.&nbsp; I will use a character of Stat-5, Skill-2 and<BR>&gt; compare this to a character with Stat-9, Skill-2.<BR>&lt;snip example&gt;<BR><BR>OK, I agree your system is better at recognizing difference in character<BR>values than the base Traveller system.<BR><BR>And even the average concept above would see no difference between Stat-5,<BR>Skill-2 and Stat-6, Skill-2 (assuming rounding up on division. Yes, such a<BR>system means that for the minimaxer it would make no sense having a<BR>character with a stat that is not an odd number, but for CT that doesn't<BR>matter because you don't get to choose your stats, and anyway you should<BR>never explicitly try to prevent mini-maxing in game design, because without<BR>throwing out rules entirely, it can't be done).<BR><BR>I'd still prefer this slight lack of distinction, because I always tend to<BR>avoid variable dice systems, mainly due to the fact that the statistics are<BR>not intuitive enough for me as a gamemaster to easily fighure out what the<BR>effect of any particulr modifier would be.<BR><BR>I speak here about the White Wolf system, because it's the only one I've<BR>seen the math on, I suspect your system would have similar statistcal<BR>problems as well.<BR><BR>For instance, with difficulty as a modifier to the target roll, you can<BR>sometimes be better off having a lower skill (i.e: less dice) than having a<BR>higher one (more dice), because the chances of failure can be less with the<BR>smaller number of dice. The probability of _success_ measured in terms of<BR>number of success, still goes up with more dice, but the probablity of<BR>_failure_ measured in terms of how likely is it that you will roll a die<BR>that is a failure, also rises when the difficulty is above six (WW use d10,<BR>with base success chance being six for most things).<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 12:59:39 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Walter Koenig (RE: Low standards)<BR><BR>Bruce Johnson wrote :<BR><BR>&gt; Not likely. The Amiga topped out at a 68040 version, I believe, or maybe a<BR>&gt; 68030, pretty low powered for video editing and FX on a weekly production<BR>&gt; schedule. Any Amiga running today is _at least_ ten years old, and waaaay<BR>&gt; past it's prime.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; _Lightwave_, a 3-D modelling and rendering app derived from<BR>&gt; software bundled with the original Video Toaster, is, I believe, used for<BR>&gt; most of the CG work but I really doubt that the original Video Toaster is<BR>&gt; being used.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; That was amazing for it's day, a truly astonishing piece of hardware, but<BR>&gt; we're several generations beyond the original Toaster these days...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The Video toaster is capable of the FX you see in cheap local furniture<BR>&gt; store commercials, titling, wipes, fades and suchlike, but for B5 (or<BR>&gt; anything on that scale) they use much more sophisticated software and<BR>&gt; hardware, which is not a lot more expensive than the original Video<BR>&gt; Toaster setup.<BR><BR>The Video Toaster _was_ used for early B5 work, and also for "Sea Quest<BR>DSV", among other TV shows, primarily bacsue of it's low cost in comparison<BR>to SGI Irix boxes at the time.<BR><BR>The Video Toaster is a piece of additional hardware, that was not limited by<BR>the Amiga hardware, it really just used the Amiga as it's "dumb terminal".<BR><BR>Later they got better hardware, but the Video Toaster at the time was<BR>certainly capable of competing with the Irix boxes that were available then<BR>for use on _television_.<BR><BR>It would have been blocky for movie production, but TV is very low res in<BR>comparison.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 13:26:44 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Aliens (was Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR><BR>Kenji Schwarz wrote :<BR><BR>&gt; Reading it back through, it's basically Aliens with no Ripley at all<BR>&gt; (just Hicks, Bishop, and some new fodder that's pretty much<BR>&gt; carboardized versions of the Nostromo crew), and all the themes of<BR>&gt; isolation, aloneness, and family stripped out... all the stuff that<BR>&gt; carries the Aliens films along (even the fourth one), IMO.&nbsp; Strictly<BR>&gt; shootemup with a little virus-paranoia windowdressing.&nbsp; In that<BR>&gt; sense, one must admire its purity.&nbsp; Unclouded by delusions of<BR>&gt; character or plot.&nbsp; The fact that there's a Vasquez clone does not<BR>&gt; fool me into thinking it would have been a good film. :|<BR><BR>More importantly, the final A3 was a result of Hollywood stupidity. After<BR>having agreed that Vince Ward's idea for A3 was much better than Gibson's<BR>(which it is, by any means of measuring other than such action movie<BR>measures such as "bodycount per second") they then tried to change their<BR>minds after most of it had been filmed.<BR><BR>Vincent Ward, who is a damn good director (see "The Navigator" or "Vigil",<BR>the later being worthy of far greater praise than it has received to date.)<BR>had been promised creative control, and when the suits reneged he walked<BR>out, requesting that his name be removed from the film, leaving some hack to<BR>come in and take over in attempt to get the film finished.<BR><BR>So, it's not as good a film as it could have been, but I still think it's a<BR>better film than what you would have got if William Gibson's script had been<BR>filmed. Vincent Ward was correct in this case, he wasn't James Cameron, he<BR>didn't want to just make a copy of Aliens, and he probably could'nt have<BR>done it anyway.<BR><BR>The way I see it, Alien was a Horror mvie, Aliens was a War movie, Alien3<BR>might have been a Good Film, and is still a good film if you consider it<BR>seperate from the other two, but was ruined by the suits.<BR><BR>Alien Ressurrection was what it's title said. If you took a well known dead<BR>singer, ressurrected him _without_ healing the damage caused by<BR>decomposition, and put him on stage , the effect is the same as the movie.<BR><BR>Still, I can enjoy terrible movies, "Freddy Kreuger"'s films are really<BR>funny to watch for instance, so it wasn't a complete losss, it still has<BR>some fun scenes<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 16:24:47 -0800<BR>From: "David P. Summers" &lt;summers@alum.mit.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR><BR>At 1:37 PM +1100 12/23/00, Timothy Little wrote:<BR>&gt;David P. Summers wrote:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; I'm not sure that BG provide a penalty evasion that is linear<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; with their flicker rate.&nbsp; Note, you can't determine a change<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; in direction instantaneously.&nbsp; If you give you ship a pulse<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; that is sorter than the aquisition time the enemy needs to<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; figure how you change direction, and then disappear, then<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; all the time you are behind the black globe you will be moving<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; in a direction that is slightly different than predicted.....<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Such a short pulse is also necessarily a *small* change in direction.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;You have a disadvantage compared to a target than can apply continuous<BR>&gt;thrust in various directions in an unpredicatable manner.<BR><BR>I'm not so sure.&nbsp; The change in direction is smaller to begin with, as you<BR>go along undetectable, the difference adds up with time.<BR><BR>______________________________<BR>summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>(This is the net.&nbsp; My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 13:38:11 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Lend-Lease (with ObTrav's!!)<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Steven Hudson<BR>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, 26 December 2000 08:17<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: re: Lend-Lease (with ObTrav's!!)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Subject: RE: (OT) Narrow-minded people<BR>&gt; ...<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; As for the provision of supplies and equipment to the UK, don't forget<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; that we were paying for them. Lend-lease wasn't free. And America was<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; and is a trading nation, it had to sell it's goods somewhere.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Actually Lend-Lease *was* free, but anything remaining after the war had<BR>&gt; &gt;to be returned. It replaced the US "Cash and Carry" policy<BR>&gt; (while neutral<BR>&gt; &gt;from a legal standpoint, blatantly pro-allied since the Axis had<BR>&gt; no capacity<BR>&gt; &gt;to do the "Carry" part) when the UK ran out of cash in 41. However, Gen<BR>&gt; &gt;Marshall himself remarked that the cost of Lend-Lease was paid for more<BR>&gt; &gt;than twice over when the British gave the US the magnatron for free.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; The sheer fun of re-fighting the Pacific without the quality of radar<BR>&gt; available and no nukes makes on pause; "Tokyo in `48" is hardly a cry<BR>&gt; to inspire the GI's...<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; I'm surprised that no ones ever published a wargame where the British-<BR>&gt; Japanese alliance continued into WW 2 - heck, they do _World in Flames_,<BR>&gt; which is contra-historical as all hell :&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; FWIW, British reciprocal aid to the US was around the same proportion<BR>&gt; of their GNP as US aid to the UK &amp; Empire (The British Economy Since<BR>&gt; 1945, Cairncross, `92, p.87 n2); I'm not clear (but doubt?) whether that<BR>&gt; includes anything like the highest-tech treats &amp; tricks, although I<BR>&gt; imagine that mundanities like superior aero-tech is included (if not<BR>&gt; the continuing post-war transfers of such).<BR><BR>One also has to take into the account that for the US, the Nazi's were good<BR>for business.<BR><BR>Not only did the US sell a lot of stuff to both sides prior to the trade<BR>restrictions, and not only did a lot of money flow into the US from the<BR>profits made by German arms manufaturers owned primarily by American<BR>interests, but the exodus of skilled scientific and technical staff from the<BR>Third Reich both before and after the War gave the US a huge technolgical<BR>lead for the next decade or two, which has only begun to be clawed back over<BR>the last two decades.<BR><BR>For the cynical, the U.S. entry into WW2 was almost perfectly timed for<BR>maximum profit potential. While I'm not one who believes this was the prime<BR>motivator of the decision, there are some good arguments to show that any<BR>later entry would not have allowed the US to claim the stake it did in the<BR>resulting carve up after the war, and any earlier entry would have reduced<BR>the profits made up to that point considerably.<BR><BR>The only two countries to benefit more economically from WW2 than the US,<BR>were Germany and Japan, who both gained completely new, retooled<BR>manufacturing industries, largely paid for (and profitted from) by US<BR>concerns.<BR><BR>An ObTrav: Imagine the Sworld Worlds after being defeated by the Imperium.<BR>Imagine the investment the UImperium would make in them to try and be sure<BR>they remained "loyal"<BR><BR>OTOH, look at all the ex-imperial Zhodani planets, the Zhodani try and make<BR>it look like liife is much better under their rule. Of course the<BR>unfortunate thing for the Imperium is that in many ways they are right.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR><BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3464<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Monday, December 25 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3465<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Up Close And Personal (was: jzeitlin@cyburban.com)<BR>TL D 3I Strike Cruiser<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: Skills in CT (was Re: The Perfect 2d6 System)<BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>Re: Tim Little<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: Skills in CT (was Re: The Perfect 2d6 System)<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 19:39:20 -0500<BR>From: "Daniel Phelps" &lt;phelpsd@gate.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Up Close And Personal (was: jzeitlin@cyburban.com)<BR><BR>Was&nbsp; written:<BR><BR>&gt;The 'Elegant Gentleman' I'm holding off on, because of the psi issue; I<BR>&gt;wanted to see what others thought of it, and whether you might have had<BR>&gt;some ideas for revision.&nbsp; I also wanted to read through canon psi stuff and<BR>&gt;see if I could come up with ideas for canonicalizing it without doing<BR>&gt;violence to the character concept.<BR><BR>Yes, as I wrote earlier that character sketch is one I had some conceptual<BR>problems with as well.&nbsp; What I wanted was a character connected with a<BR>special skill, the ability to teleport small items very short distances.<BR>What I was shooting for was a very limited skill that wouldn't potentially<BR>unbalance a game.&nbsp; Thus it acts only on very small loose items in plain<BR>sight.&nbsp; I also wanted to give a GM the option of making the pet the one<BR>doing the teleporting thus further limiting the possibilities.&nbsp; There is<BR>canon for a psi booster pet early in the Journals so such a pet is not<BR>unprecedented.&nbsp;&nbsp; This would also allow for a psi link to Mr. Smyth.&nbsp; I see<BR>such a pet in its natural state using psionics to hide from predators and<BR>possibly "reaching" very small items that are just out of its reach.&nbsp; It<BR>might also have natural a "pack rat" bent which would cause it to be drawn<BR>to the "theft" of small shiny objects possibly replacing them with something<BR>else.<BR><BR>In Mr. Smyth what I was shooting for was a character that wasn't evil, he<BR>only steals occasionally and usually from those who would not miss it.&nbsp; He<BR>generally sees his actions as redressing a balance.&nbsp; Thus he might shift<BR>some chips from a rich cad to someone down on his luck, which incidentally<BR>might include himself.&nbsp; He might swap keys with a pretty lady so that he<BR>might meet her.&nbsp; If found out, as everyone knows that he does slight of<BR>hand, he has a ready cover.&nbsp;&nbsp; Call it a tipsy practical joke, everyone knows<BR>that he is a "rich eccentric".<BR><BR>&gt;Your other ideas sound interesting; I would recommend not tying the idea of<BR>&gt;psi-suppression to the secret police too tightly.&nbsp; There are, after all,<BR>&gt;plenty of things that secret police can do, with or without an excuse...<BR><BR>Regards the secret police what I shooting for&nbsp; was a Sector office of a pan<BR>Empire organization charged with psionic suppression., a special branch as<BR>it were.&nbsp; I see the Empire as having many such covert special charge<BR>independent organizations often working at cross purposes with or the<BR>duplicating efforts of other organizations.&nbsp; Such organizations, created for<BR>a specific limited purpose by this Emperor or that, take on lives of their<BR>own and often see self perpetuation as their primary function.&nbsp; They thus<BR>have the potential to become very real loose canons if used to further<BR>specific political ends.<BR><BR>Dan<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 17:19:58 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: TL D 3I Strike Cruiser<BR><BR>Hello,<BR>(this is a touched-up version of postings to the ct-starships list in October)<BR><BR>&nbsp; Here's a version of the Strike Cruiser from S9, regressed to TL D and<BR>assuming the same IN doctrines were in use at that time - which is fair,<BR>as they're the same during the Interstellar Wars per the game _Imperium_.<BR><BR>&nbsp; If crew totals seem off, that's because although there are sufficent <BR>marines carried to allow the service crew to be reduced from 3 to 2 per <BR>K-Dt this has not been done; if all marines are landed there are still<BR>40 ships troops to maintain guard on the ships mind-bogglingly vast<BR>armoury of nuclear warheads.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Crew are not included for the courier capacity, as these are not organic<BR>assets - flight control however is, through the boat deck. Intended small<BR>craft load (crew of 45 included but not cost) is eight 50-Dt protected <BR>landers for marines and munitions transfer, and five each 20-Dt and 10-Dt<BR>for general purposes.<BR><BR>&nbsp; I didn't do the small craft designs (anyone?) but the S:9 lander puts<BR>50 men into 50 D-t at max armour and Agility 6. I'm assuming the cargo<BR>capacity is either AFV's or munitions capacity (reloading the cruiser<BR>between passes to planetary targets?). Frankly, limiting the number of<BR>eggs per basket is also a factor - I'd get nervous about my conventional<BR>power projection ability if 2 shuttles at 50 men each were my full force.<BR><BR>&nbsp; I assumed that as part of a planetary bombardment group that one or more<BR>dedicated carriers would be present - the ships apparent capability for<BR>independent operations is fortuitous, but not an original design principle?<BR><BR>&nbsp; And frankly, not having marines over the ships troops complement would<BR>have been _really_ useful in discouraging the Serendips from trying to<BR>seize the Eldorado during the year or two (?) it spent getting its Jump <BR>drive rebuilt from 5501 AD (IY 980). And yes, the design is meant to be<BR>what the Eldorado (A:5) might have been.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Command section crew are a bit high, calculated at ten plus five per ten<BR>Kt (you still get odd results in the low Kt's scaling up from the switch-<BR>over from B:2 to B:5 at 1,000 Dt, though).<BR><BR>&nbsp; The design sheet at the end includes some short-cuts and minor heresies,<BR>but the stats as written are all (AFAIK) OK per HG2.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Comments on doctrine, design, efficiency? Errors? <BR><BR>LAPUTA-Class Strike Cruiser&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; CS-N4347G3-443307-748F8-0&nbsp;&nbsp; MCr 35,248.86&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 40000 tons<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; batts&nbsp; L&nbsp;&nbsp; 1 3511W&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Crew=439.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; batts bearing&nbsp; H&nbsp;&nbsp; 1 3411S&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; TL=13. <BR>Hangars=850. Cargo=264. LHyd=14800. EP=2800. Agility=4. Marines=200.<BR>Partly streamlined, L-Hyd purifier. Backup computer (G) and screens.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>%&nbsp; &nbsp; Item&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Dt&nbsp; &nbsp; MCr&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>1&nbsp; &nbsp; hull config 4&nbsp; &nbsp; 400&nbsp; &nbsp; 2440&nbsp; &nbsp; size N, partly streamlined, scoops/hoses<BR>1&nbsp; &nbsp; bridge&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 400&nbsp; &nbsp; 200&nbsp; &nbsp; n/a<BR>4&nbsp; &nbsp; J-3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1600&nbsp; &nbsp; 6400&nbsp; &nbsp; n/a&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>14&nbsp; &nbsp; P-7&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 5600&nbsp; &nbsp; 16800&nbsp; &nbsp; EP's = 2800<BR>11&nbsp; &nbsp; M-4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 4400&nbsp; &nbsp; 2200&nbsp; &nbsp; Agility = 4; 1600 EP's<BR>37&nbsp; &nbsp; L-Hyd&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 14800&nbsp; &nbsp; n/a&nbsp; &nbsp; n/a<BR>14&nbsp; &nbsp; Armor 6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 5600&nbsp; &nbsp; 5040&nbsp; &nbsp; n/a<BR>- -&nbsp; &nbsp; L-Hyd purifier&nbsp; &nbsp; 420&nbsp; &nbsp; 2.52&nbsp; &nbsp; n/a<BR>- -&nbsp; &nbsp; comp G&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 18&nbsp; &nbsp; 100&nbsp; &nbsp; -5 EP<BR>- -&nbsp; &nbsp; N-Dampers-3&nbsp; &nbsp; 20&nbsp; &nbsp; 45&nbsp; &nbsp; -30 EP<BR>- -&nbsp; &nbsp; M-Screen-3&nbsp; &nbsp; 45&nbsp; &nbsp; 55&nbsp; &nbsp; -240 EP<BR>- -&nbsp; &nbsp; back-ups&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 83&nbsp; &nbsp; 200&nbsp; &nbsp; n/a ; comp, screens<BR>- -&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1*Meson Gun F&nbsp;&nbsp; 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; 1000&nbsp; &nbsp; -800 EP<BR>- -&nbsp; &nbsp; 30*f8 missiles&nbsp; &nbsp; 1500&nbsp; &nbsp; 375&nbsp; &nbsp; n/a&nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>- -&nbsp; &nbsp; 20*f4 sand&nbsp; &nbsp; 20&nbsp; &nbsp; 15&nbsp; &nbsp; n/a<BR>- -&nbsp; &nbsp; 1*f8 PAW&nbsp; &nbsp; 100&nbsp; &nbsp; 36&nbsp; &nbsp; -60 EP&nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>- -&nbsp; &nbsp; 1*f7 rep.&nbsp; &nbsp; 100&nbsp; &nbsp; 11&nbsp; &nbsp; -10 EP&nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>- -&nbsp; &nbsp; 3*f7 beam-l&nbsp; &nbsp; 45&nbsp; &nbsp; 45&nbsp; &nbsp; -45 EP&nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>- -&nbsp; &nbsp; 5*f4 fusion&nbsp; &nbsp; 10&nbsp; &nbsp; 10&nbsp; &nbsp; -10 EP<BR>- -&nbsp; &nbsp; quarters&nbsp; &nbsp; 888&nbsp; &nbsp; 222&nbsp; &nbsp; n/a&nbsp; &nbsp; 439 crew<BR>- -&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; courier hangar&nbsp; 330&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 0.66&nbsp; &nbsp; n/a&nbsp; &nbsp; 300 Dt of courier (not included)<BR>- -&nbsp; &nbsp; boat deck&nbsp; &nbsp; 715&nbsp; &nbsp; 1.43&nbsp; &nbsp; n/a&nbsp; &nbsp; 550 Dt of boats (not included)<BR>- -&nbsp; &nbsp; aux. fuel&nbsp; &nbsp; 240&nbsp; &nbsp; n/a&nbsp; &nbsp; n/a&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2x J-4 for 300 Dt of couriers<BR>- -&nbsp; &nbsp; marines&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 402&nbsp; &nbsp; 50.25&nbsp; &nbsp; n/a&nbsp; &nbsp; 200 marines<BR>- -&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; cargo&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 264&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; n/a&nbsp; &nbsp; n/a<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =40,000 =35248.86 +0 EP<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; MCr 35,248.86<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; BCr 28.19909 in series<BR><BR>&nbsp; As stated, I'm really just devolving TL F IN strike cruiser design <BR>philosophy - figuring out why they build them that way isn't my concern.<BR><BR>&nbsp; The "extensive" troop capability is definitely an afterthought, even<BR>if part of it is intended as security for the politically significant<BR>contents of said arsenal ship.<BR><BR>&nbsp; The fact that it can pave escorts or even light cruisers at little<BR>risk to itself is merely an added bonus; OTOH, it is _not_ meant to<BR>face battleships proper if an option is available.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Well, it is only TL D, after all; the obvious compromise has <BR>already been made, in that it is only J-3.&nbsp; <BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Steven Hudson, 2000.<BR><BR>The CT Creed: There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its Product<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 13:03:05 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; OK.&nbsp; Maybe, if you did give an RPGer a list of a hundred rolls under both systems, I<BR>&gt; can see that adding the MT column may be A FEW SECONDS faster.<BR><BR>OK, I did some tests.&nbsp; After giving myself 50 rolls to familiarise<BR>myself with the system, I ran a sequence of rolls with each system for<BR>a set of pregenerated skill numbers following a uniform random<BR>distribution from 0 to 6.<BR><BR>I did a set with real dice (to check speed), and a set on computer<BR>(primarily to compare accuracy).<BR><BR>With dice:<BR>2d6+skill - 252 seconds<BR>KB3 rolls - 745 seconds<BR><BR>On computer:<BR>2d6+skill - 1 error, 85 seconds<BR>KB3 rolls - 9 errors, 429 seconds<BR><BR>One thing I noticed was that it takes a noticeable amount of time to<BR>physically sort out the dice required for KB3, including the<BR>differently-coloured event die.&nbsp; Having to look at the event die<BR>before starting to deal with the other numbers also makes a big<BR>difference in mental effort and time.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; My point is: We're talking about something that is "close enough for<BR>&gt; all practical purposes".<BR><BR>A factor of 3-5 in time is "close enough to equal"?&nbsp; A factor of 9 in<BR>error rate is "close enough to equal"?<BR><BR>Note that I only used MT once, years ago, so comparative familiarity<BR>with its system is not a factor here.&nbsp; In fact, the familiarization<BR>run of 50 KB3 rolls is more than I've ever used MT.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Would you agree that adding KB3 dice is not *significantly* harder<BR>&gt; to do than adding MT dice?<BR><BR>Absolutely not.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 20:01:06 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>"Frank G. Pitt" wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; The question is, "How can every point of my character's<BR>&gt; &gt; Stat, and every point of his Skill, influence and determine<BR>&gt; &gt; the roll I'm about to make?"<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The answer to this though, is surprisingly simple.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Add the two together and roll against that value. If you roll under it you<BR>&gt; succeed.<BR><BR>No.&nbsp; This is what T4 did.&nbsp; It gives you an answer for half the problem.<BR><BR>The idea is to make every stat point and every skill level count without making<BR>stats overpower skills.<BR><BR>You've got to balance out stats and skills.&nbsp; Adding together and rolling low won't<BR>do this--stats are waaayyy too powerful.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; What you have to do is tune both the die roll and the stats to match.<BR><BR>Now...you're talking about a whole other game system.<BR><BR>So, further...Traveller needs to use its time-honored generation system where stats<BR>range from 0-15 and skills range from 0-6 or so.<BR><BR>And, the idea is to take that as is, and fit in a task system that is plug-n-play<BR>with established Traveller rules--AND balances skills and stats.<BR><BR>It's a tall order.&nbsp; Anybody could do it if they completely changed the game (that's<BR>what TNE did...that's what GURPS does).<BR><BR>The idea is to come up with a task system that can be used in CT...that modernizes<BR>MT....that does not have the stat/skill issues T4 did.<BR><BR>KB3 does that.&nbsp; It's plug-n-play with CT, MT, or T4.&nbsp; You could also use it easily<BR>with TNE (as long as you used the TNE chargen system consistently).<BR><BR>KB3 allows you to use any official Traveller edition interchangebly.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; I speak here about the White Wolf system, because it's the only one I've<BR>&gt; seen the math on, I suspect your system would have similar statistcal<BR>&gt; problems as well.<BR><BR>I can give you the stats for KB3.&nbsp; I worked them out for every target number up to<BR>six dice rolled.&nbsp; I'm particular about this (I am the one who discovered the<BR>statistical problems with T4 in the first place).<BR><BR>I can assure you, there are no stat problems with KB3.<BR><BR>If you have an example you'd like me to look at, I'll explain.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 13:08:09 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR><BR>On Mon, Dec 25, 2000 at 04:24:47PM -0800, David P. Summers wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; At 1:37 PM +1100 12/23/00, Timothy Little wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;You have a disadvantage compared to a target than can apply continuous<BR>&gt; &gt;thrust in various directions in an unpredicatable manner.<BR><BR>&gt; I'm not so sure.&nbsp; The change in direction is smaller to begin with,<BR>&gt; as you go along undetectable, the difference adds up with time.<BR><BR>If the globe is switched on continuously for a time on the order of<BR>minutes, yes.&nbsp; Otherwise the fact that you can't maneuver makes it<BR>very likely that your uncertainty in position due to velocity adds up<BR>to not much more than the diameter of your ship.<BR><BR><BR>- - Tim<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 20:11:26 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>Timothy Little wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; OK, I did some tests.&nbsp; After giving myself 50 rolls to familiarise<BR>&gt; myself with the system, I ran a sequence of rolls with each system for<BR>&gt; a set of pregenerated skill numbers following a uniform random<BR>&gt; distribution from 0 to 6.<BR><BR>This is getting crazy....<BR><BR><BR>I did a set with real dice (to check speed), and a set on computer<BR><BR>&gt; (primarily to compare accuracy).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; With dice:<BR>&gt; 2d6+skill - 252 seconds<BR>&gt; KB3 rolls - 745 seconds<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; On computer:<BR>&gt; 2d6+skill - 1 error, 85 seconds<BR>&gt; KB3 rolls - 9 errors, 429 seconds<BR><BR>So...you've got 50 rolls..<BR><BR>...and, let's say that you make 5 rolls an hour on average (with role playing, I usually<BR>make a lot less--maybe one or two.&nbsp; But, if you get into a fight, you'll have a lot more<BR>than 5 rolls.&nbsp; I think 5 rolls is a fair average)<BR><BR>...so, we're talking about 10 game hours.&nbsp; At an average of 5 hours a session, that's 2<BR>game sessions...<BR><BR>...you can make 50 rolls using MT in 4.2 minutes.&nbsp; That's 2.1 minutes a game session..<BR><BR>...you can make 50 rolls using KB3 in 12.41 minutes.&nbsp; That's 6.2 minutes a game session<BR><BR><BR><BR>And...you're saying that an extra 6 minutes a game session is *significant* to you?<BR><BR>That's crazy.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 20:15:31 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; ...you can make 50 rolls using MT in 4.2 minutes.&nbsp; That's 2.1 minutes a game session..<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ...you can make 50 rolls using KB3 in 12.41 minutes.&nbsp; That's 6.2 minutes a game session<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; And...you're saying that an extra 6 minutes a game session is *significant* to you?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; That's crazy.<BR><BR>I'm sorry.&nbsp; I didn't subtract the MT time...it's an extra 4.1 minutes per game session.<BR><BR>Considering that *significantly* extra time during a game session is completely crazy.<BR><BR>If an extra 5 minutes is something you'll notice during an entire 5 hour game session, you<BR>are waaayyy too anal.<BR><BR>(loosen up bit...role play...have some fun!)<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 01:32:55 GMT<BR>From: Postmark Design Bureau &lt;postmark.design@btinternet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Skills in CT (was Re: The Perfect 2d6 System)<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Steven Hudson wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; To put this squarely in CT rules* terms, where do the faithful<BR>&gt; &gt; draw the line with skill levels getting silly? Assuming book 4-8<BR>&gt; &gt; chargen, do you expect to have to have a resolution _system_ to<BR>&gt; &gt; cover characters with skill levels of 4+? Or 5+?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I've use CT generation extensively over the years (both by hand and by<BR>&gt; using computer programs).&nbsp; I've *never* seen a skill level 8 on a<BR>&gt; character.&nbsp; I'm sure it can happen, I've just never created one myself<BR>&gt; using the CT system.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Now, I have seen a few (very few) level 7 skills, and level 6 or less is<BR>&gt; not that uncommon.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I'd say, as a general rule of thumb, CT skills range from 0-6, with 7+<BR>&gt; occurring only very, very, very rarely.<BR><BR>Supplement 1 "1001 Characters"<BR><BR>Other 24 has electronic-8<BR><BR>Supplement 4 "Citizens of the Imperium"<BR><BR>Scientist 19 Computer-8.<BR><BR>There are several Bureaucrats with Admin-7 and it is possible to have<BR>Admin-10 or better if you really want (since Admin is 50% on the Bureaucrat<BR>Advanced Education Table.<BR><BR>Supplement 13 "Veterans"<BR><BR>The highest skill that I spotted was 5 (#85 has Combat Rifleman-5 and<BR>Survival-5)<BR><BR>IIRC, the flight school and medical school in High Guard gave the occasional<BR>pilot or doctor with a skill in the 6-8 range.<BR><BR>Players can abuse T4 and the draft T5 more, since they don't mandate rolling<BR>skills and the universities* tend to give lots of levels in a single skill.<BR><BR>*not the T4 undergraduate course.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Phil Kitching, http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo<BR>Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Products Division<BR>"Microwaving halfbaked ideas from across the galaxy"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 14:20:35 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Note the size of dish required to "image" stars for radio<BR>&gt;&gt; astronomy...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; For stars thousands of parsecs away, yes.&nbsp; You only need to know where<BR>&gt; a few local stars are.<BR><BR>Those dishes are required to see *bright* radio sources that far away.<BR>The average star *isn't* much of a radio source and is thus very *dim*<BR>at radio wavelengths.<BR><BR>&gt; [...neutrinos...]<BR>&gt;&gt; Again the problem is identifying the source. Is that source star X or<BR>&gt;&gt; star Y. Or supernova Z?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; You've got an astrogation database -- use it.<BR><BR>Ah! But nebula are rare. There's only *one* in "known space". So<BR>neither the radio nor IR data are likely to be in the standard<BR>database. <BR><BR>You'll need a suuplemetal database, and possible somewhat modified<BR>sensors to go poking around in a nebula.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Yes, quite likely.&nbsp; I was only pointing out that we haven't actually<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; measured the density of any such asteroids.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Sure we have. What fo you think meteorites *are*? :-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; We've measured some fragments of what was left of them after passing<BR>&gt; through the atmosphere, yes.<BR><BR>Actually, the larger ones reach the ground essentially unchanged except<BR>for the outer crust. The big ones do tend to break apart.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; I have a 3 cm nickel iron one right here... <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Nifty!&nbsp; Did you catch it yourself?&nbsp; :^)<BR><BR>Nope. <BR><BR>&gt;&gt; That's what I had in mind. With the right arrangement of bodies you<BR>&gt;&gt; might be able to jump, but only in certain directions.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I suspect tidal stress would disrupt the 'jump bubble' formation no<BR>&gt; matter which direction the stress was greatest.&nbsp; Hmm -- unless your<BR>&gt; ship is very thin, or something ...<BR><BR>Consider the (unlikely) case where not only is there a void in the<BR>center where the stresses are low enough, but there are one or more<BR>"gaps", providing low stress "holes" all the way to the outside.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; That's what I was thinking of, The 2e-13 contour for a ring system out<BR>&gt;&gt; to look interesting. Just remember that the way the vectors add<BR>&gt;&gt; produces some odd results.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Vectors?&nbsp; I wish it was that easy.&nbsp; Tidal stresses are the eigenvalues<BR>&gt; of the Hessian matrix of the gravitational potential.&nbsp; Which produces<BR>&gt; even more odd results, of course.<BR><BR>&lt;backing away slowly&gt;<BR><BR>Ok, whatever you say....<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; After all, there's *no* decrement to the field from a flat sheet!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Yes, you might be able to jump across the surface of an Alderson disk<BR>&gt; or Dyson sphere without encountering a "100D" jump limit.&nbsp; Of course,<BR>&gt; the stress *increases* as you get further away (up to a point), so you<BR>&gt; most likely wouldn't be able to enter or leave via jump.<BR><BR>On the other hand, I'd expect that while the space is low curvature,<BR>the "slope" of the field would tend to prevent jump.<BR><BR>If not, maybe long distance travel on an Alderson disk could be via<BR>some sort of "jump bus".<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; The density of the B ring is a few thousand times higher, so<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; the particles are not that far apart.&nbsp; I was surprised to find that<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; out.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; So am I!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; In fact, it looks like the ring has a density comparable to Earth's<BR>&gt; atmosphere at sea level (although not gaseous, of course).<BR><BR>That's the *mean* density. The density distribution is multimodal, with<BR>one peak being at 0, another around 1, and maybe another around 3<BR>(assuming there's some rock in there)<BR><BR>Sort of like the "average" temperature of the piece of cookware in the<BR>old Corning ads. Half frozen in a block of ice, half heated by a<BR>blowtorch. :-)<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; I'd love to see some imagery from inside the rings. Probably the only<BR>&gt;&gt; place in the system that comes close to the images of "asteroid belts"<BR>&gt;&gt; in most movies. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The Cassini probe should be able to give a pretty good picture of<BR>&gt; what's there when it gets to Saturn in 2004.&nbsp; (It's near Jupiter right<BR>&gt; now, closest approach in 5 days!)<BR><BR>I hope they release some of the images thru the "picture of the day"<BR>distribution. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 18:28:23 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Tim Little<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; On Mon, Dec 25, 2000 at 01:43:25AM -0600, Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane <BR>&gt; Productions wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; Tim-<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Wasn't it you who said they had a program that could figure<BR>&gt;&gt; probabilities and such?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Yes, that's me.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; For easy reference, the random difficulty throws in KB3 are:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Difficulty&nbsp; Dice Mean&nbsp; Median<BR>&gt; ----------&nbsp; ---- ----&nbsp; ------<BR>&gt; Easy&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1D&nbsp;&nbsp; 4.3&nbsp;&nbsp; 3.5<BR>&gt; Average&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2D&nbsp;&nbsp; 7.8&nbsp;&nbsp; 7<BR>&gt; Difficult&nbsp;&nbsp; 3D&nbsp;&nbsp; 11.3&nbsp; 11<BR>&gt; Formidable&nbsp; 4D&nbsp;&nbsp; 14.8&nbsp; 14<BR>&gt; Staggering&nbsp; 5D&nbsp;&nbsp; 18.3&nbsp; 18<BR>&gt; Impossible&nbsp; 6D&nbsp;&nbsp; 21.8&nbsp; 21<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; What I need is the *average* number obtained, rolling those dice, using<BR>&gt;&gt; the E-Die.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The problem is that there are different meanings of "average".<BR>&gt; Commonly used ones are mean and median.&nbsp; For normal nD6, they are the<BR>&gt; same.&nbsp; For KB3 dice, they are a bit different.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The mean is what you typically get when you roll a whole bunch of<BR>&gt; dice, add them up, and divide by the total number.&nbsp; The median is the<BR>&gt; number on the boundary between "high" and "low" halves, or the average<BR>&gt; of the higher and lower if the division happens to fall exactly<BR>&gt; between two of them.<BR><BR>There's also the mode which is essentially "the most commonly appearing<BR>value". If you plot a curve with the values across the bottom, and how<BR>often they occur as the vertical axis the peak (or *peaks*!) will be<BR>the "mode".<BR><BR>To use a Traveller based example, the "average" you want when<BR>discussing population of planets is the mode most of the time. That is,<BR>it's the population range you'll encounter most often. The mdeian and<BR>the mean are *very* different numbers. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 14:05:08 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; ...and, let's say that you make 5 rolls an hour on average<BR><BR>Typically I spend about 4% or so of my time rolling and adding dice as<BR>GM.&nbsp; About half that is the actual mechanical procedure.&nbsp; Triple that<BR>for using KB3, and add the original half.&nbsp; That's 8% of my time, or<BR>twenty minutes out of a 5-hour session not roleplaying.<BR><BR>If rolling for difficulty as suggested, double it for NPCs.&nbsp; Double it<BR>again since I have to roll whenever players do.&nbsp; That brings it to 30%<BR>of my time, or about one and a half hours.<BR><BR>More importantly, the mental effort of calculation is about 5 times<BR>greater for KB3 even as a player.&nbsp; 2D takes under a second to add with<BR>almost no chance of error.&nbsp; That means I can stay in character and in<BR>fact do the mathematics in mid-sentence.&nbsp; KB3 takes 5 times longeer,<BR>with a much higher chance of messing it up.&nbsp; That means I can't do it<BR>without breaking significantly from character.&nbsp; And that's without<BR>doing the 'measuring success' calculations that KB3 requires.<BR><BR>So, you may consider it insignificant.&nbsp; I don't.&nbsp; And your comment<BR>about "stop being so anal and start roleplaying" is completely<BR>ill-founded.&nbsp; It is precisely because I prefer roleplaying to dice<BR>rolling that I think KB3 is over-complex.&nbsp; The trade-off of triple the<BR>complexity for small benefits in the result distribution is exactly<BR>why I don't like it.<BR><BR>I think it is probably best if I don't continue any more discussions<BR>on this topic.&nbsp; Personal insults are where I stop.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 21:26:39 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Skills in CT (was Re: The Perfect 2d6 System)<BR><BR>Postmark Design Bureau wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Supplement 1 "1001 Characters"<BR><BR>Good point.&nbsp; I have those books, but I don't use them much.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 21:33:26 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>Timothy Little wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I don't.&nbsp; And your comment<BR>&gt; about "stop being so anal and start roleplaying" is completely<BR>&gt; ill-founded.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I think it is probably best if I don't continue any more discussions<BR>&gt; on this topic.&nbsp; Personal insults are where I stop.<BR><BR>I thought we've had enough of these conversations so far for you to know there was<BR>no malice in my comment.&nbsp; I've enjoyed our conversation--maybe I should have put a<BR>little smiley face next to that comment.<BR><BR>Just to set the record straight, that wasn't intended as an insult--it was a jibe.<BR>Sorry you took it the wrong way.<BR><BR>If I felt that way about you, I wouldn't (1) even reply to your posts (2) credit<BR>you with helping me make a change to KB3 or (3) note, on a few of my replys to you,<BR>that I like how we've been able to agree to disagree on some subjects.<BR><BR>I want to make sure that you know I'm not irritated with you at all...and my<BR>comment is something that I'd say to a friend with a smile on my face.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 14:46:41 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Those dishes are required to see *bright* radio sources that far away.<BR>&gt; The average star *isn't* much of a radio source and is thus very *dim*<BR>&gt; at radio wavelengths.<BR><BR>Looking up some numbers, I see you're right.&nbsp; I had no idea that the<BR>Sun was so weak in radio wavelengths.&nbsp; It looks like the "passive<BR>radar" wouldn't work well after all.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Ah! But nebula are rare. There's only *one* in "known space". So<BR>&gt; neither the radio nor IR data are likely to be in the standard<BR>&gt; database.<BR><BR>You could probably deduce a lot of it simply from luminosity and<BR>spectral data.&nbsp; Almost all the radiant flux from the surface of a star<BR>derives from fusion which produces neutrinos.&nbsp; If you can measure the<BR>neutrinos, you should be able to deduce the luminosity.&nbsp; Even without<BR>that, you at least know that neutrino sources are very strongly<BR>correlated with stars, and just need to find the position and<BR>orientation that gives the highest correlation.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; You'll need a suuplemetal database, and possible somewhat modified<BR>&gt; sensors to go poking around in a nebula.<BR><BR>They would help, yes.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Actually, the larger ones reach the ground essentially unchanged<BR>&gt; except for the outer crust. The big ones do tend to break apart.<BR><BR>Of course, that doesn't say much about asteroids larger than<BR>starships.&nbsp; From what I can see, composition varies with size.&nbsp; So<BR>far, we can only extrapolate from small fragments and try to sort out<BR>what bits of impact crater basins were part of the original impactor<BR>and which were bits of surrounding material mixed in.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Consider the (unlikely) case where not only is there a void in the<BR>&gt; center where the stresses are low enough, but there are one or more<BR>&gt; "gaps", providing low stress "holes" all the way to the outside.<BR><BR>OK, I can picture that.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; On the other hand, I'd expect that while the space is low curvature,<BR>&gt; the "slope" of the field would tend to prevent jump.<BR><BR>Hmm.&nbsp; I suspect not, since if that were the case then the jump limit<BR>for stars would be greatly different from the jump limit for planets<BR>(in relative terms).&nbsp; It might be something you have to take into<BR>account in jump calculations though.&nbsp; It might cause the jump path to<BR>be not exactly a straight line, or alter the velocity on exit, or<BR>both, or something else again.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; If not, maybe long distance travel on an Alderson disk could be via<BR>&gt; some sort of "jump bus".<BR><BR>It would be interesting :^)<BR><BR>Not that I've seen such a construct anywhere in Traveller material,<BR>but might be interesting anyway.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; That's the *mean* density. The density distribution is multimodal, with<BR>&gt; one peak being at 0, another around 1, and maybe another around 3<BR>&gt; (assuming there's some rock in there)<BR><BR>Yes.&nbsp; That makes it difficult to do calculations but I've got the<BR>results now.&nbsp; For Saturn's rings, they give a no-go zone only a few<BR>thousand kilometres from the ring plane.&nbsp; Their contribution ceases to<BR>be significant well inside Saturn's own jump limit.<BR><BR><BR>[...Cassini probe...]<BR>&gt; I hope they release some of the images thru the "picture of the day"<BR>&gt; distribution. <BR><BR>I'm scanning the site every now and then.&nbsp; I tried to get the<BR>full-resolution image of Ganymede next to Jupiter, but it didn't work<BR>yesterday.&nbsp; :-(<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3465<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, December 26 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3466<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Tim Little<BR>Re: Skills in CT<BR>Re: Initiative Question<BR>Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>Revised Summary of KB3<BR>RE: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>RE: Revised Summary of KB3<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 14:52:16 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Tim Little<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt; To use a Traveller based example, the "average" you want when<BR>&gt; discussing population of planets is the mode most of the time. That is,<BR>&gt; it's the population range you'll encounter most often. The mdeian and<BR>&gt; the mean are *very* different numbers. <BR><BR>I thought the mode was almost identical to the median in the Traveller<BR>population case?&nbsp; Certainly the mean is a very different beast though!<BR><BR>I've got figures for the mode in KB3.&nbsp; In most cases they are one less<BR>than the median.&nbsp; (Except Easy, which doesn't have a mode)<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 20:59:15 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: Skills in CT<BR><BR>&gt;From: Postmark Design Bureau &lt;postmark.design@btinternet.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Skills in CT (was Re: The Perfect 2d6 System)<BR>...<BR>&gt;Supplement 4 "Citizens of the Imperium"<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Scientist 19 Computer-8.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;There are several Bureaucrats with Admin-7 and it is possible to have<BR>&gt;Admin-10 or better if you really want (since Admin is 50% on the Bureaucrat<BR>&gt;Advanced Education Table.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Things like the Computer-8 "Scientist" (what, hacking doesn't pay? :&gt; )<BR>sort of fall by the wayside as you add/allow skills like Gravitics,<BR>Robotics, Research (?) - whatever you like, it's CT, after all :)<BR><BR>&gt;IIRC, the flight school and medical school in High Guard gave the occasional<BR>&gt;pilot or doctor with a skill in the 6-8 range.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Those monstrousities I do recall :(<BR><BR>&nbsp; Pilot at least adds to Agility again at level seven (!), but for the<BR>most part would an impromptu system need to deal comprehensively with<BR>skill levels in CT above five?<BR><BR>&nbsp; I'm suggesting not.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Steven Hudson<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 23:35:59 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Initiative Question<BR><BR>Tod Glenn wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Initiative = 1D + Base Initiative<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Base Initiative = Dex + End + Military Bonus + Leadership<BR>&gt; &gt; Bonus<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; What about other factors.&nbsp; Tactics?&nbsp; Stealth?<BR><BR>Tactics is used in another way.&nbsp; I like the way T4 presented Tactics (they<BR>finally found a way to have this before-now-player-realm skill have a real<BR>impact on the game, and the T4 guys did a good job with it).<BR><BR>Tactics skill level gives you a "Tactics Pool" to use (I think MT used Tactics<BR>Pools too).&nbsp; Your skill level in Tactics is used a a special "roving" DM.&nbsp; You<BR>can use your Tactics skill to modify "any roll" in the game.<BR><BR>Once a point is spent from your Tactics pool, it's spent for the encounter (but<BR>it refills later--for later encounters).<BR><BR>So, if you wanted to use points from your Tactics pool to improve your<BR>Initiative roll, you could--on that one roll.&nbsp; But, once your points are spent,<BR>they are spent.<BR><BR>Stealth, on the other hand, I see is a different skill.&nbsp; Stealth should not be<BR>applied to Base Initiative because not all situations can benefit from Stealth.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; Does the leader's initiative<BR>&gt; flow to his followers?<BR><BR>Yes.&nbsp; I think, if the GM determines that a Leader is in control (is "leading",<BR>if you will), then his Leadership skill level can be applied to everyone's<BR>Initiative--as long as they are being "lead" by him.<BR><BR>And, if more than one person with Leadership is in the group, I'd only apply the<BR>true "leader's" skill level to everyone else's Initiative (although anybody who<BR>has Leadership can modify their own Base Initiative with their own skill).<BR><BR><BR>&gt; or is group initiative different?<BR><BR>You can use the KB3 initiative rule with groups, if you like.&nbsp; Simply use the<BR>highest on a side...or use an average...or whatever floats you boat.<BR><BR>You don't even have to roll, using the KB3 initiative rule--see notes on this<BR>below.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; What about<BR>&gt; surprise?<BR><BR>Surprise is completely different.&nbsp; It will be handled separately from<BR>Initiative.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Also, I don't think that the range of initiative possible should be too<BR>&gt; wide, primarily for the purpose of game play.<BR><BR>Well, if you're talking about the random part of the Initiative throw, I agree<BR>with you.&nbsp; That's why I went with 1D6 instead of some rule allowing multiple<BR>dice.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; If a party has one character<BR>&gt; will a super high bonus, that character will always act first, regardless of<BR>&gt; rules.<BR><BR>This is correct, but I think it should be so.&nbsp; An in-shape ex-Marine who just<BR>mustered out of the service, having served a term behind the Zhodani lines is<BR>going to act quicker under fire than some fat, lazy, Merchant who spends most of<BR>his time behind a computer console looking at trade quotes.<BR><BR>Your stats reflect a lot about you--that's why I went with using stats for the<BR>Base Initiative.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; That really eliminated the role of luck--blind chance-that so often<BR>&gt; determines the outcome of these encounters.<BR><BR>You've still got the D6.<BR><BR><BR>I went with the KB3 Initiative rule as written for a few reasons..<BR><BR>(1)&nbsp; How agile you are has a definite impact on how quickly you can react, so<BR>Dex is part of the Base Initiative.&nbsp; How in-shape you are also effects how fast<BR>you can move (a tired fat boy will move a lot loser than an in-shape long<BR>distance runner), so End completes the Base Initiative.<BR><BR>(2)&nbsp; Dex + End is used in Snapshot.&nbsp; This makes KB3 compatible with that system.<BR><BR>(3)&nbsp; The KB3 Base Initiative rule are similar to the initiative/moral number<BR>used in CT's Striker.&nbsp; This makes KB3 compatible with that system as well.<BR><BR>(4)&nbsp; Some GMs do not like "rolling for initiative".&nbsp; They like to sit players<BR>around the table in a pre-determined "initiative order".&nbsp; These GMs can drop the<BR>1D roll used in the KB3 roll and just use everyone's Base Initiative to<BR>determine who goes first.<BR><BR>(5)&nbsp; When there is an initiative tie, players can simply look at the who has the<BR>highest base, using that as a tie breaker.<BR><BR>(6)&nbsp; The KB3 rule focusses on ability, not random breaks--but the rule allows<BR>for a short range of "lucky breaks" within reason.&nbsp; This way, your fit,<BR>combat-tested guys will usually go first, but sometimes, the plump noble still<BR>has a shot "within reason".<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 22:31:52 -0800<BR>From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; I always liked 1.5L or 2L coke bottles filled with water. If you<BR>&gt; &gt; push them into the ground a few inches upside down and hit them a<BR>&gt; &gt; bit low the 'top' end of the bottle will often 'lift off' like a<BR>&gt; &gt; rocket. Sometimes they'll fly up 30-40 feet.<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; But it occurs to me that you could make some *very* reactive "reactive<BR>&gt; targets" by putting the right amount of dry ice into a bottle just<BR>&gt; before filling it with water. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Get it right, and it'd be safe to handle, but go up impressively when<BR>&gt; struck by a bullet.<BR><BR>Actually, probably not, unless you shot them quickly.&nbsp; I did this in <BR>college (along with several quite impressive feats of pyrotechnics).&nbsp; <BR>Add 1 small piece of dry ice (a sphere just small enough to fit <BR>thorugh the neck) to a 2 liter plastic bottle half full of water, and it <BR>expands, rocks alarmingly, and explodes with great force.&nbsp; It's <BR>quite honestly one of the louder noises I've heard.&nbsp; Try it if you have <BR>some dry ice on hand, but don't expect such things to be useful as <BR>targets very long (the explosion occured around 2-3 minutes after <BR>the botle was closed).&nbsp; Stand well back too, it's pretty violent.<BR><BR>- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 01:28:29 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Revised Summary of KB3<BR><BR>The discussion here on the TML has brought on a couple of changes.&nbsp; Here<BR>is the reposted KB3 Summary.......<BR><BR>One of the things I like about KB3 is that you don't need any<BR>"derivative" modifiers--you're not dividing anything or figuring some<BR>sort of modifier.&nbsp; All you need to use the system is the character's<BR>Stats and his Skills.&nbsp; Nothing else.<BR><BR>KB3 is awesome plugged into CT as a task system.&nbsp; It's perfect if you<BR>want a system to mix-n-match CT, MT and T4 items.&nbsp; And, if you wanted a<BR>D6 based system for TNE, you could easily use KB3 as long as you kept<BR>TNE character generation constant.<BR><BR>Here is a summary of KB3..........<BR><BR>XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX<BR><BR><BR><BR>The TASK THROW is a two step process....<BR><BR>(1)&nbsp; Throw a number of D6 equal to Skill plus the E-Die vs. a target<BR>number.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (Target number can be randomly rolled if desired.)<BR><BR>(2)&nbsp; Compare your total to the Skill's governing Stat.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Difficulty Table<BR>- -----------------------------<BR>3+&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; or&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Easy<BR>7+&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; or&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Average<BR>11+&nbsp;&nbsp; or&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 3D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Difficult<BR>15+&nbsp;&nbsp; or&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 4D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Formidable<BR>19+&nbsp;&nbsp; or&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 5D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Staggering<BR>23+&nbsp;&nbsp; or&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 6D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Impossible<BR><BR><BR><BR>NOTES &amp; COMMENTS.............................................<BR><BR>(A)&nbsp; E-DIE:<BR>This is your "Event Die"...your "Explosion Die".&nbsp; It should be a<BR>different color or size from the rest.<BR><BR>If a "6" turns up on the E-Die, double all "even" numbered dice.<BR><BR>If a "1" turns up on the E-Die, remove all "odd" numbered dice from the<BR>throw.<BR><BR>Otherwise, count the E-Die normally.<BR><BR>Quick Play Tip:<BR>On a "6", count all even dice, double that amount, add the rest.<BR><BR>Quick Play Tip:<BR>On a "1", remove all odd dice then count normally.<BR><BR>The E-Die is always rolled as a part of the task throw, and it can be<BR>the only die rolled if the specific skill used is skill level 0.&nbsp; (The<BR>E-Die is also always rolled when random difficulty is thrown and when<BR>Opposed Throws are made.)<BR><BR><BR><BR>(B)&nbsp; MEASURING A Successful Throw:<BR>This is from "step two" of the task throw (above).&nbsp; Your throw is<BR>successful if your throw his higher than your difficulty number.&nbsp; Once<BR>you've thrown, you compare your total with the governing stat of the<BR>skill.<BR><BR>GREATER SUCCESS occurs when your total is below or equal to your Stat.<BR><BR>(Regular) SUCCESS occurs when your total lies within the range equal to<BR>your difficulty number plus your Stat.<BR><BR>MARGINAL SUCCESS occurs when your total is greater than your difficulty<BR>number plus your Stat.<BR><BR><BR><BR>(C)&nbsp; MEASURING An Unsuccessful Throw:<BR>This is from "step two" of the task throw (above).&nbsp; Your throw is not<BR>successful if your throw his equal to or lower than your difficulty<BR>number.&nbsp; Once you've thrown, you compare your total with the governing<BR>stat of the skill.<BR><BR>(Regular) FAILURE occurs when your throw falls within the range of<BR>difficulty number minus Stat.<BR><BR>GREATER FAILURE occurs when your throw is lower than your difficulty<BR>number minus Stat.<BR><BR><BR><BR>(D)&nbsp; FUMBLE - MISHAP:<BR>A Fumble or a Mishap occurs when your throw is equal to or less than 0.<BR>This can sometimes happen when a "1" appears on the E-Die.<BR><BR><BR><BR>(E)&nbsp; STATIC - RANDOM DIFFICULTY:<BR>You have a choice in determining difficulty numbers.&nbsp; The GM may pick a<BR>static difficulty number (just like in MT), or random difficulty may be<BR>rolled.<BR><BR>If random difficulty is chosen, treat it like an Oppossed Roll.&nbsp; The<BR>Task Roll is throw first, and then the Difficulty Throw is made.<BR><BR>Always use the E-Die when throwing random difficulty numbers.<BR><BR>Random difficulty throws are not "measured".&nbsp; There is no stat to<BR>compare them to.&nbsp; The GM cannot throw a "Greater Success" with a<BR>difficulty throw.<BR><BR><BR><BR>(F)&nbsp; AUTOMATIC SUCCESS:<BR>If ever the difficulty number is reduced to 0 or below, the task is an<BR>automatic success.&nbsp; This can happen to static target numbers when<BR>modifiers are applied, and this can happen to random difficulty numbers<BR>as a result of modifiers or the E-Die.<BR><BR><BR><BR>(G)&nbsp; MODIFIERS:<BR>Any modifiers to a task throw, whether benificial to the character<BR>attempting the task or detrimental, are applied to the difficulty--not<BR>the Task Throw.&nbsp; Allow a player to throw, then apply modifiers to move<BR>the difficulty number up and down.&nbsp; This applies to both static target<BR>numbers and random difficulty throws.<BR><BR><BR><BR>(H)&nbsp; OPPOSED ROLLS:<BR>Sometimes, a character will be going up against another character (hand<BR>to hand fighting is a good example of this), and normal difficulty is<BR>not used.&nbsp; Instead, the difficulty is replaced by a task roll made for<BR>the defending character.<BR><BR>Ex:&nbsp; Two characters are fighting hand-to-hand.&nbsp; To make a strike, the<BR>character with initiative throws a Brawling task roll.&nbsp; The defending<BR>character also throws a Brawling task throw to defend himself.&nbsp; The<BR>higher of the wins the toss.<BR><BR>Remember that Opposed Rolls are basically random difficulty throws--so<BR>all modifiers are applied to the defending roll.<BR><BR>Since a defending Opposed Roll is made for a character, the throw is<BR>measured (where as most difficulty throws are not measured).&nbsp; Therefore,<BR>the defending Brawler in the example above could defend himself, rolling<BR>a Greater Success (if this happened, I'd say that the Brawler not only<BR>blocked the attack, but he also damaged his attacker in the process!).<BR><BR><BR><BR>(I)&nbsp; SKILL DEFINITIONS:<BR>In order to make a task roll under the KB3 system, a character must have<BR>a skill (but this does not mean that the skill is listed on the<BR>character's sheet).<BR><BR>DEFAULT SKILL:&nbsp; Any skill a character may attempt without the<BR>requirement of special training is a Default Skill.<BR><BR>Ex:&nbsp; If you saw a rifle lying on a table, you could pick it up and shoot<BR>it even though you've never been trained.&nbsp; You might not be any good,<BR>but you can operate the weapon.&nbsp; Rifle is a Default Skill.&nbsp; Swimming is<BR>not--you have to learn to swim.<BR><BR>All characters have every Default Skill as skill level 0.&nbsp; There is no<BR>need to write any Default Skills on the character's sheet (because all<BR>characters have them) unless the character has improved the skill to<BR>level 1 or higher.<BR><BR><BR>NON-DEFAULT SKILL:&nbsp; Any skill that cannot be used without special<BR>training is a non-default skill.<BR><BR>Ex:&nbsp; Nobody can just sit on a starship and begin piloting the vessel<BR>without prior training, therefore Pilot is a non-default skill.<BR>Swimming is a non-default skill.&nbsp; Engineering is a non-default skill.<BR><BR>All non-default skills must be listed on the character's sheet (and<BR>sometimes these skills will be skill level 0).<BR><BR><BR><BR>(J)&nbsp; GOVERNING ATTRIBUTES:<BR>When you measure a skill (detailed above), you compare your roll with<BR>the skill's governing attribute.&nbsp; Under KB3, you do not have to use<BR>pre-established, hard-defined governing attributes as listed in the T4<BR>rule book (or any other Traveller reference).&nbsp; And you do not have to<BR>indicate a skill's governing attribute on the character's sheet (because<BR>the governing attribute may change).<BR><BR>Instead, simply pick which attribute is logically best suited to the<BR>type of roll you are making.&nbsp; This could change from roll to roll.<BR><BR>Ex:&nbsp; If a character was firing his rifle at a running target, I'd have<BR>him make his attack roll using his Rifle skill governed by the<BR>character's Dex.&nbsp; If the same character wanted go guage the quality of a<BR>stack of rifles he found in an abandoned space ship, I'd have him make<BR>his information roll using his Rifle skill governed by the character's<BR>Edu.<BR><BR><BR><BR>(K)&nbsp; ATTRIBUTE ROLLS:<BR>Sometimes, a character will need to make a roll to force open a door (a<BR>Str check) or keep his balance while he walked on a narrow cat-walk (a<BR>Dex check) or some other similar roll.&nbsp; All task throws under the KB3<BR>system use skills--no rolls are based on pure attributes.<BR><BR>When these situations occur, you should first check to see if the<BR>character has a skill he can use listed on his sheet.&nbsp; The Athletics<BR>skill from T4 is perfect for these situations.<BR><BR>If the character has no appropriate skill listed on his sheet, this task<BR>roll falls under the Default Skill rule listed above (because some skill<BR>out there *will* cover the task and no special training is required).<BR>Therefore, no matter which skill is needed (climbing, jumping, lifting,<BR>etc), the charcter has the skill at level 0 under the Default rule.<BR><BR>Quick Play Tip:<BR>Don't bother figuring exactly which skill is needed.&nbsp; If no skill on the<BR>character's sheet applies to the situation, simply roll 1D for the<BR>character.&nbsp; (Because he *has* the skill at level 0 under the Default<BR>skill rule--it doesn't matter which specific skill it is.)<BR><BR>A SPECIAL MODIFIER is used on these rolls to reflect the greater<BR>importance a character's stats play in these task rolls.&nbsp; Whenever a<BR>character attempts an attribute roll, use the stat as a modifier to<BR>decrease the difficulty (subtract the stat from the static target number<BR>or the difficulty number rolled randomly).<BR><BR>This modifier is always applied under these conditions, and it does not<BR>matter if the character is using a skill from his sheet (like Athletics)<BR>or a Default skill at level 0.<BR><BR><BR><BR>(L)&nbsp; SKILL OPTIONS:<BR>Under KB3, characters have options based on their skill level.&nbsp; The<BR>higher skilled the character is, the more options he has.<BR><BR>As you saw above, a character's skill level determines how many dice can<BR>be thrown.&nbsp; That is one option.&nbsp; But, there are others.<BR><BR>OPTION 1:&nbsp; A player is allowed to throw a number of D6 equal to his<BR>character's skill level plus the E-Die when throwing for a task.<BR><BR>OPTION 2:&nbsp; A player may elect to use one or all of his character's skill<BR>points to increase the skill's governing stat for measuring purposes.<BR>This will make it easier for him to roll Greater Success and give him<BR>bigger ranges in the other measuring categories.&nbsp; (All skill points may<BR>be used in this manner, but the E-Die is always thrown to achieve<BR>success on the roll.)<BR><BR>OPTION 3:&nbsp; A player may elect to use one of all of his character's skill<BR>points to reduce his difficulty number.&nbsp; In this instance, use the stat<BR>as a modifier to reduce a difficulty roll or simply subtract the stat<BR>from the static target number.&nbsp; (If difficulty is reduced to 0 or below,<BR>the task results in automatic success.&nbsp; All skill points may be used in<BR>this manner, but the E-Die is always thrown to achieve success on the<BR>roll.)<BR><BR>OPTION 4:&nbsp; A player may decide to mix any of the options above.<BR><BR><BR><BR>(M)&nbsp; SHOULD A PLAYER BE TOLD DIFFICULTY?<BR>This is up to the GM.&nbsp; In my games, if a charcter can guage the<BR>difficulty of a task (how hard does it look to climb that cliff?), I<BR>will tell the player what the difficulty category is (Easy, Average,<BR>Difficult, etc...).&nbsp; If the character cannot guage difficulty (I wonder<BR>what kind of defense that guy over there would put up if I hit him in<BR>the face?), then I will give the player no indication of difficulty.<BR><BR>Note that if you are using static target numbers a player will know the<BR>*exact* difficulty of the throw because each difficulty category is<BR>assigned one target number.<BR><BR>If you are using random difficulties, on the other hand, the player will<BR>only get an idea of the range of target numbers he will be up against<BR>(and the E-Die will come into play).<BR><BR>Use whichever method best suits your game.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 21:32:47 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden wrote :<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Add the two together and roll against that value.<BR>&gt; &gt; If you roll under it you succeed.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; No.&nbsp; This is what T4 did.&nbsp; It gives you an answer for half the problem.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The idea is to make every stat point and every skill level count<BR>&gt; without making stats overpower skills.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; You've got to balance out stats and skills.&nbsp; Adding together and<BR>&gt; rolling low won't do this--stats are waaayyy too powerful.<BR><BR>You didn't read the rest of my post then ?<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Then either change either them or they way they are used.<BR>&gt; &gt; What you have to do is tune both the die roll and the stats to match.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Now...you're talking about a whole other game system.<BR><BR>So are you, your system, will make any of the Traveller systems behave<BR>completely differently, so it is, in effect, a compltely different system,<BR>it just uses the same stat and skills values.<BR><BR>However, when I say "tune" that does not mean you can't work off of the<BR>existing stat values, and you've already completely changed the dice system.<BR><BR>&gt; And, the idea is to take that as is, and fit in a task system<BR>&gt; that is plug-n-play with established Traveller rules--AND balances skills<BR>and stats.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; It's a tall order.&nbsp; Anybody could do it if they completely<BR>&gt; changed the game (that's what TNE did...that's what GURPS does).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; The idea is to come up with a task system that can be used in<BR>&gt; CT...that modernizes MT....that does not have the stat/skill issues T4<BR>did.<BR><BR>It may be difficult to come up with something that meets _all_ of your<BR>requirements, but with the requirements you've listed so far, I don't see it<BR>as very difficult.<BR><BR>The requirements so far seem to be :<BR><BR>1. Work with T4, CT &amp; MT statistics and skills.<BR><BR>2. Make each point of stat and skill count.<BR><BR>3. Without having stats overpowering skills (this is the one we've just<BR>added)<BR><BR>The second one will mean that your system will not be like any of the base<BR>systems, as they do&nbsp; not do this. To get such a system you will have to<BR>carry out some sort of function on the stats and skills.<BR><BR>The third one just constrains the function to one that balances the values<BR>of stat and skill, not particulalry difficult<BR><BR>As I have already suggested, if you don't like the weight between stat and<BR>skill of just adding them together, then change it. Double the skill.<BR>Average stat &amp; skill. Do both. Use more dice. There a numerous ways of doing<BR>this, and none of them change the base systems any more than requirement 2<BR>already has done.<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt; I can assure you, there are no stat problems with KB3.<BR>&gt; If you have an example you'd like me to look at, I'll explain.<BR><BR>I'd rather look at a statistical analysis of the entire system, indivdual<BR>examples are meaningless.<BR><BR>If you can provide a three-dimensional graph of probability of success (and<BR>preferably probability of failure as well) versus your function combining<BR>stat and skill and how it changes as modifiers and/or target numbers are<BR>changed (or just the tabulated data from such an analysis, I can create the<BR>appropriate graph myself) then I will be able to see whether there any<BR>problems or not.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 23:37:30 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Revised Summary of KB3<BR><BR>Here's my reaction to looking through the system in detail.<BR><BR>In general, it is still far too complicated for me to comsider using it.<BR><BR>More importantly perhaps, it is too difficult to easily figure out what the<BR>probability of success is for any particular throw.<BR><BR>Note that ome of my comments refer primarily to the structure of the<BR>document, I ask questions that I _know_ are answered further down the<BR>document, but which _should_ have been explained prior to the point at which<BR>I ask the question.<BR><BR>Also, I'm assuming when I'm reading this I haven't got access to your other<BR>posts, which do explain some of the problems I point out below.&nbsp; The point,<BR>of course, is that your document needs to explain them in isolation.<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden wrote :<BR>&gt; The discussion here on the TML has brought on a couple of changes.&nbsp; Here<BR>&gt; is the reposted KB3 Summary.......<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; One of the things I like about KB3 is that you don't need any<BR>&gt; "derivative" modifiers--you're not dividing anything or figuring some<BR>&gt; sort of modifier.&nbsp; All you need to use the system is the character's<BR>&gt; Stats and his Skills.&nbsp; Nothing else.<BR><BR>I would not call this a Good Thing(TM).<BR>Stats and skills are not the only thing that affect the outcome.<BR>You need other modfiers. In fact later on you mention how to include these<BR>modifiers, so this statement is innaccurate as well.<BR><BR>&gt; The TASK THROW is a two step process....<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; (1)&nbsp; Throw a number of D6 equal to Skill plus the E-Die vs. a target<BR>&gt; number.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; (Target number can be randomly rolled if desired.)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; (2)&nbsp; Compare your total to the Skill's governing Stat.<BR><BR>This implies that low skill numbers are better than high skill numbers.<BR>If you have a skill of 1, you roll one die, you are more likely to succeed<BR>(roll under your stat) than you are if you have a skill of six.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Difficulty Table<BR>&gt; -----------------------------<BR>&gt; 3+&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; or&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Easy<BR>&gt; 7+&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; or&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Average<BR>&gt; 11+&nbsp;&nbsp; or&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 3D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Difficult<BR>&gt; 15+&nbsp;&nbsp; or&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 4D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Formidable<BR>&gt; 19+&nbsp;&nbsp; or&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 5D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Staggering<BR>&gt; 23+&nbsp;&nbsp; or&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 6D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Impossible<BR><BR>This table isn't mentioned in the previous description, how is it used ?<BR><BR>&gt; NOTES &amp; COMMENTS.............................................<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; (A)&nbsp; E-DIE:<BR>&gt; This is your "Event Die"...your "Explosion Die".&nbsp; It should be a<BR>&gt; different color or size from the rest.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; If a "6" turns up on the E-Die, double all "even" numbered dice.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; If a "1" turns up on the E-Die, remove all "odd" numbered dice from the<BR>&gt; throw.<BR><BR>This requires too much thought for each die roll, it also has _very_ strange<BR>effects on the probability curves.<BR><BR>&gt; Otherwise, count the E-Die normally.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Quick Play Tip:<BR>&gt; On a "6", count all even dice, double that amount, add the rest.<BR><BR>"count" all even dice ?&nbsp; Don't you mean "total" all even dice.<BR>(These terms have very different meanings)<BR><BR>&gt; The E-Die is always rolled as a part of the task throw, and it can be<BR>&gt; the only die rolled if the specific skill used is skill level 0.&nbsp; (The<BR>&gt; E-Die is also always rolled when random difficulty is thrown and when<BR>&gt; Opposed Throws are made.)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; (B)&nbsp; MEASURING A Successful Throw:<BR>&gt; This is from "step two" of the task throw (above).&nbsp; Your throw is<BR>&gt; successful if your throw his higher than your difficulty number.&nbsp; Once<BR>&gt; you've thrown, you compare your total with the governing stat of the<BR>&gt; skill.<BR><BR>So we're talking multiple die rolls, _and_ multiple comparisons, just for<BR>what would be one roll and one comparison in T4 or CT.<BR><BR>&gt; GREATER SUCCESS occurs when your total is below or equal to your Stat.<BR><BR>OK,<BR><BR>&gt; (Regular) SUCCESS occurs when your total lies within the range equal to<BR>&gt; your difficulty number plus your Stat.<BR><BR>Ah, this is how you use diffculty.<BR><BR>&gt; MARGINAL SUCCESS occurs when your total is greater than your difficulty<BR>&gt; number plus your Stat.<BR><BR>So when does _failure_ occur&nbsp; ? The above three results cover every<BR>possibility.<BR><BR>&gt; (C)&nbsp; MEASURING An Unsuccessful Throw:<BR>&gt; This is from "step two" of the task throw (above).&nbsp; Your throw is not<BR>&gt; successful if your throw his equal to or lower than your difficulty<BR>&gt; number.&nbsp; Once you've thrown, you compare your total with the governing<BR>&gt; stat of the skill.<BR><BR>&gt; (Regular) FAILURE occurs when your throw falls within the range of<BR>&gt; difficulty number minus Stat.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; GREATER FAILURE occurs when your throw is lower than your difficulty<BR>&gt; number minus Stat.<BR><BR>Oh so we use difficulty in another way as well ?<BR>This was not mentioned in the original description<BR><BR>This implies you must both roll higher than the difficulty, and at the same<BR>time roll under your stat.<BR><BR>This means if your stat is less than your difficulty, you _cannot_ succeed.<BR>So difficulties of 23 are a waste of time, as we only have stats of up to<BR>15.<BR><BR>Of course, the above rules also state that you succeed when you roll under<BR>stat plus difficulty, which means you also always succeed !<BR><BR>To say the least these rules are inconsistent and need much better<BR>clarification, if not actual fixing !<BR><BR>&gt; (D)&nbsp; FUMBLE - MISHAP:<BR>&gt; A Fumble or a Mishap occurs when your throw is equal to or less than 0.<BR>&gt; This can sometimes happen when a "1" appears on the E-Die.<BR><BR>No it can't.&nbsp; At least not according to your description.<BR>Did you perhaps mean _subtract_ the values when you roll a 1 on the E-die<BR>rather than _remove_ ?<BR><BR>&gt; (E)&nbsp; STATIC - RANDOM DIFFICULTY:<BR>&gt; You have a choice in determining difficulty numbers.&nbsp; The GM may pick a<BR>&gt; static difficulty number (just like in MT), or random difficulty may be<BR>&gt; rolled.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; If random difficulty is chosen, treat it like an Oppossed Roll.&nbsp; The<BR>&gt; Task Roll is throw first, and then the Difficulty Throw is made.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Always use the E-Die when throwing random difficulty numbers.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Random difficulty throws are not "measured".&nbsp; There is no stat to<BR>&gt; compare them to.&nbsp; The GM cannot throw a "Greater Success" with a<BR>&gt; difficulty throw.<BR><BR>Then what the heck do you compare them with ?<BR>And how about some justification for what to me seems a pointless mechanic ?<BR><BR>&gt; (F)&nbsp; AUTOMATIC SUCCESS:<BR>&gt; If ever the difficulty number is reduced to 0 or below, the task is an<BR>&gt; automatic success.&nbsp; This can happen to static target numbers when<BR>&gt; modifiers are applied, and this can happen to random difficulty numbers<BR>&gt; as a result of modifiers or the E-Die.<BR><BR>Pardon ?? How can the difficulty number be reduced either way ?<BR>And this takes _no_ account of statistics or skill, surely you should be<BR>comparing to<BR>skill level or something, not zero.<BR><BR>Yes, you have an "Option" that may handle this, but this should probably be<BR>referred to here if you don't want comments such as these. People usually<BR>ignore "options' on first reading.<BR>Personally, I think this "Option" should be built in.<BR><BR>&gt; (G)&nbsp; MODIFIERS:<BR>&gt; Any modifiers to a task throw, whether benificial to the character<BR>&gt; attempting the task or detrimental, are applied to the difficulty--not<BR>&gt; the Task Throw.&nbsp; Allow a player to throw, then apply modifiers to move<BR>&gt; the difficulty number up and down.&nbsp; This applies to both static target<BR>&gt; numbers and random difficulty throws.<BR><BR>Ah, so this is how the difficulty can change.<BR>But, this should be done _before_ the roll is attempted, unless the<BR>character is completely unskilled they should have some idea of how<BR>difficult the task is. Doesn't mean the ajudicator can't add "hidden<BR>modifiers" (ones the character is unwaware of) afterwards, but the player<BR>should be aware of non-hidden modifiers before making the attempt<BR><BR>&gt; (H)&nbsp; OPPOSED ROLLS:<BR>&gt; Sometimes, a character will be going up against another character (hand<BR>&gt; to hand fighting is a good example of this), and normal difficulty is<BR>&gt; not used.&nbsp; Instead, the difficulty is replaced by a task roll made for<BR>&gt; the defending character.<BR><BR>Note that this will _seriously_ affect the system, the game will be<BR>_nothing_ like T4 or CT if you do this. I'll admit I like doing it this way<BR>myself, but it does change the way the game works quite considerably.<BR><BR>&gt; Ex:&nbsp; Two characters are fighting hand-to-hand.&nbsp; To make a strike, the<BR>&gt; character with initiative throws a Brawling task roll.&nbsp; The defending<BR>&gt; character also throws a Brawling task throw to defend himself.&nbsp; The<BR>&gt; higher of the wins the toss.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Remember that Opposed Rolls are basically random difficulty throws--so<BR>&gt; all modifiers are applied to the defending roll.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Since a defending Opposed Roll is made for a character, the throw is<BR>&gt; measured (where as most difficulty throws are not measured).&nbsp; Therefore,<BR>&gt; the defending Brawler in the example above could defend himself, rolling<BR>&gt; a Greater Success (if this happened, I'd say that the Brawler not only<BR>&gt; blocked the attack, but he also damaged his attacker in the process!).<BR><BR>What about armour ?<BR><BR>In CT, armour is included in the "to hit" roll based on weapon type.<BR>How do you handle weapon type and armour in this system ?<BR><BR>&gt; (I)&nbsp; SKILL DEFINITIONS:<BR>&gt; In order to make a task roll under the KB3 system, a character must have<BR>&gt; a skill (but this does not mean that the skill is listed on the<BR>&gt; character's sheet).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; DEFAULT SKILL:&nbsp; Any skill a character may attempt without the<BR>&gt; requirement of special training is a Default Skill.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Ex:&nbsp; If you saw a rifle lying on a table, you could pick it up and shoot<BR>&gt; it even though you've never been trained.&nbsp; You might not be any good,<BR>&gt; but you can operate the weapon.&nbsp; Rifle is a Default Skill.&nbsp; Swimming is<BR>&gt; not--you have to learn to swim.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; All characters have every Default Skill as skill level 0.&nbsp; There is no<BR>&gt; need to write any Default Skills on the character's sheet (because all<BR>&gt; characters have them) unless the character has improved the skill to<BR>&gt; level 1 or higher.<BR><BR>Have you tought about the results you get in this case ?<BR>I suppose that the character with no skill uses _only_ a single die (the<BR>E-die)<BR>which means they will _never_ succeed unless it is an Easy task, or there<BR>are other modifiers to lower the difficulty.<BR><BR>Sorry, but I don't like that, it makes the "default" skill much less useful<BR>than it currently is, and it doesn't adequately model reality. Using your<BR>example, picking up a rifle and firing with no skill may still result, IRL,<BR>in a succeful hit even if the task is really difficult.<BR><BR>With zero level skills in CT, I could succeed much more readily than I can<BR>under this system.<BR>Of course, if that is a design goal, then you have suceeded.<BR><BR>&gt; NON-DEFAULT SKILL:&nbsp; Any skill that cannot be used without special<BR>&gt; training is a non-default skill.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Ex:&nbsp; Nobody can just sit on a starship and begin piloting the vessel<BR>&gt; without prior training, therefore Pilot is a non-default skill.<BR><BR>&gt; Swimming is a non-default skill.&nbsp; Engineering is a non-default skill.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; All non-default skills must be listed on the character's sheet (and<BR>&gt; sometimes these skills will be skill level 0).<BR><BR>Hmm, I'd argue that is not the case.<BR>There are very few non-default skills, such as langauges that are not<BR>related to any languages you know, and possibly swimming and riding a<BR>bycycle, and several knowledges. Everything else people can try to do, so a<BR>good system should be able to handle characters trying to carry out<BR>all skills.<BR><BR>&gt; (J)&nbsp; GOVERNING ATTRIBUTES:<BR><BR>Don't use the term "attribute" if elsewhere you use statistic, and there are<BR>no other "attributes". Tryu and use the same term all the time.<BR><BR>BTW, you stole this bit from either "Daredevils" or "Aftermath" didn't you ?<BR><BR>&gt; When you measure a skill (detailed above), you compare your roll with<BR>&gt; the skill's governing attribute.&nbsp; Under KB3, you do not have to use<BR>&gt; pre-established, hard-defined governing attributes as listed in the T4<BR>&gt; rule book (or any other Traveller reference).&nbsp; And you do not have to<BR>&gt; indicate a skill's governing attribute on the character's sheet (because<BR>&gt; the governing attribute may change).<BR><BR>&gt; Instead, simply pick which attribute is logically best suited to the<BR>&gt; type of roll you are making.&nbsp; This could change from roll to roll.<BR><BR>This is, IMO, a great idea.<BR>We used it in our system also, though again it totally changes the wayu that<BR>skills work.<BR><BR>&gt; (K)&nbsp; ATTRIBUTE ROLLS:<BR>&gt; Sometimes, a character will need to make a roll to force open a door (a<BR>&gt; Str check) or keep his balance while he walked on a narrow cat-walk (a<BR>&gt; Dex check) or some other similar roll.&nbsp; All task throws under the KB3<BR>&gt; system use skills--no rolls are based on pure attributes.<BR><BR>&gt; When these situations occur, you should first check to see if the<BR>&gt; character has a skill he can use listed on his sheet.&nbsp; The Athletics<BR>&gt; skill from T4 is perfect for these situations.<BR><BR>&gt; If the character has no appropriate skill listed on his sheet, this task<BR>&gt; roll falls under the Default Skill rule listed above (because some skill<BR>&gt; out there *will* cover the task and no special training is required).<BR>&gt; Therefore, no matter which skill is needed (climbing, jumping, lifting,<BR>&gt; etc), the charcter has the skill at level 0 under the Default rule.<BR><BR>No attribute rolls, huh ?<BR><BR>&gt; Quick Play Tip:<BR>&gt; Don't bother figuring exactly which skill is needed.&nbsp; If no skill on the<BR>&gt; character's sheet applies to the situation, simply roll 1D for the<BR>&gt; character.&nbsp; (Because he *has* the skill at level 0 under the Default<BR>&gt; skill rule--it doesn't matter which specific skill it is.)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; A SPECIAL MODIFIER is used on these rolls to reflect the greater<BR>&gt; importance a character's stats play in these task rolls.&nbsp; Whenever a<BR>&gt; character attempts an attribute roll, use the stat as a modifier to<BR>&gt; decrease the difficulty (subtract the stat from the static target number<BR>&gt; or the difficulty number rolled randomly).<BR><BR>In other words you _do_ have attribute rolls.<BR><BR>This is poorly writen. Rather than saying you have no attribuite rolls and<BR>then showing people how to do attribute rolls, you&nbsp; should just show them<BR>how to do attribute rolls, and not try to pretend you don't have them.<BR><BR>&gt; This modifier is always applied under these conditions, and it does not<BR>&gt; matter if the character is using a skill from his sheet (like Athletics)<BR>&gt; or a Default skill at level 0.<BR><BR>&gt; (L)&nbsp; SKILL OPTIONS:<BR>&gt; Under KB3, characters have options based on their skill level.&nbsp; The<BR>&gt; higher skilled the character is, the more options he has.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; As you saw above, a character's skill level determines how many dice can<BR>&gt; be thrown.&nbsp; That is one option.&nbsp; But, there are others.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; OPTION 1:&nbsp; A player is allowed to throw a number of D6 equal to his<BR>&gt; character's skill level plus the E-Die when throwing for a task.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; OPTION 2:&nbsp; A player may elect to use one or all of his character's skill<BR>&gt; points to increase the skill's governing stat for measuring purposes.<BR>&gt; This will make it easier for him to roll Greater Success and give him<BR>&gt; bigger ranges in the other measuring categories.&nbsp; (All skill points may<BR>&gt; be used in this manner, but the E-Die is always thrown to achieve<BR>&gt; success on the roll.)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; OPTION 3:&nbsp; A player may elect to use one of all of his character's skill<BR>&gt; points to reduce his difficulty number.&nbsp; In this instance, use the stat<BR>&gt; as a modifier to reduce a difficulty roll or simply subtract the stat<BR>&gt; from the static target number.&nbsp; (If difficulty is reduced to 0 or below,<BR>&gt; the task results in automatic success.&nbsp; All skill points may be used in<BR>&gt; this manner, but the E-Die is always thrown to achieve success on the<BR>&gt; roll.)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; OPTION 4:&nbsp; A player may decide to mix any of the options above.<BR><BR>These Options are great, but add even more complexity, especially to<BR>analysing the system<BR><BR>If Difficulty is reduced to zero, what is the point of rolling the E-Die ?<BR>You will always succeed<BR><BR>&gt; (M)&nbsp; SHOULD A PLAYER BE TOLD DIFFICULTY?<BR>&gt; This is up to the GM.&nbsp; In my games, if a charcter can guage the<BR>&gt; difficulty of a task (how hard does it look to climb that cliff?), I<BR>&gt; will tell the player what the difficulty category is (Easy, Average,<BR>&gt; Difficult, etc...).&nbsp; If the character cannot guage difficulty (I wonder<BR>&gt; what kind of defense that guy over there would put up if I hit him in<BR>&gt; the face?), then I will give the player no indication of difficulty.<BR><BR>Good discussion, but perhaps not appropriate for what you labelled the<BR>"summary"<BR><BR>BTW, I think that how accurate the characters ability to gauge a difficulty<BR>is depends on their skills. An player who is an experienced climber should<BR>have little problem estimating the difficulty of a climb, one who is not<BR>might make a big mistke, and should be the subject of another roll (a<BR>"perception" roll).<BR>In your latter example, a good fighter might well be able to size up an<BR>opponent and determine how difficult they are likely to be.<BR><BR>That they can't determine it, is IMO another good reason why you don' want<BR>to use random difficulties.<BR><BR>&gt; Note that if you are using static target numbers a player will know the<BR>&gt; *exact* difficulty of the throw because each difficulty category is<BR>&gt; assigned one target number.<BR><BR>&gt; If you are using random difficulties, on the other hand, the player will<BR>&gt; only get an idea of the range of target numbers he will be up against<BR>&gt; (and the E-Die will come into play).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Use whichever method best suits your game.<BR><BR>In general, I _really_ don't understand the point of having a random target<BR>number. To me that means that stat and skill have almost no affect on the<BR>outcome, what most greatly affects the outcome is how you determine the<BR>target number. This seems to be acting against your stated goals.<BR><BR>Sorry to rip this apart, but if you're _ever_ thinking of publishing<BR>something like this you seriously need someone with technical writing<BR>skills, and someone who understands game design to work with you. As itr<BR>stands, it is not possible to use these rules without making large<BR>assumptions about what is meant and deciding which rules to ignore where<BR>they conflict.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3466<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-zc01.mx.aol.com (rly-zc01.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.1]) by air-zc05.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Tue, 26 Dec 2000 05:50:59 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-zc01.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Tue, 26 Dec 2000 05:50:36 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id FAA05033;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Tue, 26 Dec 2000 05:28:08 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Tue, 26 Dec 2000 05:27:54 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id FAA04759<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Tue, 26 Dec 2000 05:27:54 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 05:27:54 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012261027.FAA04759@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3466<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, December 26 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3467<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>RE: Lend-Lease (with ObTrav's!!)<BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>Re: Tim Little<BR>Gunbunnies [FILK]<BR>Son of a Son.... [FILK]<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: Revised Summary of KB3<BR>Re: Revised Summary of KB3<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 19:54:27 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Lend-Lease (with ObTrav's!!)<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; From: Steven Hudson<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; The sheer fun of re-fighting the Pacific without the quality of radar<BR>&gt; &gt; available and no nukes makes on pause; "Tokyo in `48" is hardly a cry<BR>&gt; &gt; to inspire the GI's...<BR><BR>The thing which strikes me about the Pacific war is how quickly the tide<BR>turned.&nbsp; The Japanese start their offensive in December '41, and it was<BR>halted in May '42 (Battle of the Coral Sea).&nbsp;&nbsp; The last major Japanese<BR>success (the surrender of the last US forces in the Philippines) was a day<BR>or two before the battle of Midway (early June '42).&nbsp; After that it was<BR>Guadalcanal, Milne Bay and the Kokoda Track (plus whatever was happening in<BR>Burma).<BR><BR>In other words, the Japanese were pretty much defeated within six or seven<BR>months, although the counter-offensive took years to recover the territory<BR>they had seized.<BR><BR>What was the role of British-sourced radar in the Coral Sea and at Midway? <BR>I dunno, but it probably didn't hurt the Allies to have it available.<BR><BR>I am not entirely sure that invading Japan would have been necessary.&nbsp; I<BR>think once the Kwantung Army got stomped by the Red Army, it would have<BR>been pretty obvious that Japan was sunk, even to the most hardened idiots. <BR>But then again, there are the conspiracy theories that the nukes were<BR>dropped as a hint to the Soviets.<BR><BR>&gt; From: "Frank G. Pitt"<BR>&gt; For the cynical, the U.S. entry into WW2 was almost perfectly timed for<BR>&gt; maximum profit potential. While I'm not one who believes this was the<BR>&gt; prime motivator of the decision, there are some good arguments to show<BR>&gt; that any later entry would not have allowed the US to claim the stake it<BR>&gt; did in the resulting carve up after the war, and any earlier entry would<BR>&gt; have reduced the profits made up to that point considerably.<BR><BR>I've been looking through the Air Force volumes of the Australian Official<BR>Histories in the last month or so.&nbsp; What is striking is the degree to which<BR>the US was cooperating with Britain, the Dutch and Australia before Pearl<BR>Harbour.&nbsp; The anti-Japanese alliance had already been formed, and the<BR>Germany-first strategy had already been established - _before_ Japan had<BR>entered the war!<BR><BR>The US seems to have had to step carefully to ensure Japan was seen as the<BR>aggressor for the sake of its own domestic politics, but they were already<BR>planning and building up to enter the war.&nbsp; I get the impression<BR>they would have happily taken longer to build up if everything hadn't hit<BR>the fan when it did.<BR><BR>There is a nice little section in one of the books where the US government<BR>approached the Australian government for permission to use airfields in<BR>Australia and New Guinea to send B-17s to the Philippines.&nbsp; This was in<BR>mid-'41 or so.&nbsp; There is something of an implication that the Australian<BR>government were not at all unhappy with the prospect of US forces being<BR>present in Australia in the event of a Japanese attack.&nbsp; In fact, turning<BR>cartwheels with joy seems to be implied.<BR><BR>OBTRAV:&nbsp; Umm, I don't know.&nbsp; Popular opinion isn't such a big deal in the<BR>3I.&nbsp; If the Imperium wants to jump someone they can just go ahead and do<BR>it.&nbsp; But then again, they don't seem to fight a lot of aggressive wars<BR>these days.<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 21:45:56 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Those dishes are required to see *bright* radio sources that far away.<BR>&gt;&gt; The average star *isn't* much of a radio source and is thus very *dim*<BR>&gt;&gt; at radio wavelengths.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Looking up some numbers, I see you're right.&nbsp; I had no idea that the<BR>&gt; Sun was so weak in radio wavelengths.&nbsp; It looks like the "passive<BR>&gt; radar" wouldn't work well after all.<BR><BR>Just keep that in mind if you ever have some PCs misjump into Dark<BR>Nebula Sector. :-)<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Ah! But nebula are rare. There's only *one* in "known space". So<BR>&gt;&gt; neither the radio nor IR data are likely to be in the standard<BR>&gt;&gt; database.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; You could probably deduce a lot of it simply from luminosity and<BR>&gt; spectral data.&nbsp; Almost all the radiant flux from the surface of a star<BR>&gt; derives from fusion which produces neutrinos.&nbsp; If you can measure the<BR>&gt; neutrinos, you should be able to deduce the luminosity.&nbsp; Even without<BR>&gt; that, you at least know that neutrino sources are very strongly<BR>&gt; correlated with stars, and just need to find the position and<BR>&gt; orientation that gives the highest correlation.<BR><BR>But is it a star a long ways off or a nearby fusion plant? :-)<BR><BR>Yes, I know, there are probably ways to figure that out. But I bet that<BR>the PCs won't have much better ideas than we do until they've done a<BR>lot of digging in the ship's library. :-)<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; You'll need a suuplemetal database, and possible somewhat modified<BR>&gt;&gt; sensors to go poking around in a nebula.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; They would help, yes.<BR><BR>Which makes things *real* fun if you wind up there as the result of a<BR>misjump. Especially if you'd planned to pick them up at your intended<BR>destination. &lt;eg&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Actually, the larger ones reach the ground essentially unchanged<BR>&gt;&gt; except for the outer crust. The big ones do tend to break apart.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Of course, that doesn't say much about asteroids larger than<BR>&gt; starships.&nbsp; From what I can see, composition varies with size.&nbsp; So<BR>&gt; far, we can only extrapolate from small fragments and try to sort out<BR>&gt; what bits of impact crater basins were part of the original impactor<BR>&gt; and which were bits of surrounding material mixed in.<BR><BR>Well, the larger asteroids should be similar to the smaller planets. <BR><BR>The basic model on asteroid formation is the same planetismal model the<BR>describes how *everything* condense out of a gas &amp; dust cloud. The<BR>asteroids are a mix of planetismals, and fragments knocked off<BR>planestimals (and other asteroids) in collisions. <BR><BR>As things collected, you had the classic "dirty snowball". As they got<BR>bigger, the heat from short lived isotopes (ones that are mostly gone<BR>now, 5 billion+ years later) caused melting. <BR><BR>This gave an ice crust with a liquid layer and a core of the "dust"<BR>that was supplying the heat. Even a body only tens of km in diameter<BR>will differentiate under it's own gravity in these conditions.<BR><BR>The liquid layer may have been ammonia, water or even methane depending<BR>on various factors. But both water and ammonia will let the dust grains<BR>react chemically, giving a sort of sedimentary rock. <BR><BR>On small bodies, that's as far as it got. And eventually the liquid<BR>froze as they cooled off. That's likely as far as it went on smaller<BR>bodies. <BR><BR>On somewhat larger bodies, the internal heat melted the dust grains and<BR>the "rock". On still larger ones the nickel-iron and a few elements<BR>soluble in that settled out, while most of the rest formed a stony<BR>shell around a nickel iron core. <BR><BR>Meanwhile some bodies accreted enough material to be quite large, and<BR>eventually one of them got large enough to start giving off significant<BR>amounts of heat merely from gravitional contraction. This drove off the<BR>more volatile element on nearby bodies, and a fair percentage of those<BR>wound up on this protostar. <BR><BR>Finally it started producing energy from fusion. And the heat and the<BR>solar wind blew most of the lighter materials out of the inner system<BR>and allowed the gas giants to pick up a lot of it. <BR><BR>Stuff closer to the sun got the icy coat backed and irradiated until<BR>the volatiles were gone or combined into complex organics. That created<BR>the compounds found in carbonaceous chodrites.<BR><BR>So, a fairly large and "pristine" asteroid would have a chodritic<BR>layer, a stony layer and a nickel-iron core. Smaller ones would lack<BR>the iron core, and really small ones might lack the stony core. <BR><BR>Impacts will have broken off and ejected greater or lesser amounts of<BR>the surface layers. <BR><BR>Oddly, the outermost layers will be the easiest to remove this way!<BR>Chondritic material has very low strength. About like soft coal as I<BR>recall. The stony material is stronger, but still more apt to be<BR>fragmented than the nickel-iron.<BR><BR>So how much of each layer is left, and which asteroids are partially<BR>(or completely!) stripped "cores" and which are aggregations of<BR>fragments "chipped" off of other bodies is anyone's guess. <BR><BR>But I don't think anyone would be surprised to find multi km chunks of<BR>nickel-iron out there. I think they'd be more surprised if there<BR>*weren't* any. <BR><BR>And yes, the really large bodies like Ceres and Pallas are likely stone<BR>with an iron core. <BR><BR>But even a measly 1 km diameter nickel iron body would be dangerous if<BR>you assumed that it was "risky but safe" to jump at 10 km out. Or that<BR>it was "safe" at 100 km out. :-)<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; If not, maybe long distance travel on an Alderson disk could be via<BR>&gt;&gt; some sort of "jump bus".<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; It would be interesting :^)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Not that I've seen such a construct anywhere in Traveller material,<BR>&gt; but might be interesting anyway.<BR><BR>Well, building an Alderson disk is a *lot* harder than building a<BR>ringworld. <BR><BR>It's also so much *bigger* that it'd *really* imbalance a game.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; [...Cassini probe...]<BR>&gt;&gt; I hope they release some of the images thru the "picture of the day"<BR>&gt;&gt; distribution. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I'm scanning the site every now and then.&nbsp; I tried to get the<BR>&gt; full-resolution image of Ganymede next to Jupiter, but it didn't work<BR>&gt; yesterday.&nbsp; :-(<BR><BR>Well, I'm luck in that Fidonet's "NASA" fileecho carries them picture<BR>of the day files as well as things like the updated orbital elements<BR>files some programs want. So I get them automatically. :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 22:16:42 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Tim Little<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; To use a Traveller based example, the "average" you want when<BR>&gt;&gt; discussing population of planets is the mode most of the time. That is,<BR>&gt;&gt; it's the population range you'll encounter most often. The mdeian and<BR>&gt;&gt; the mean are *very* different numbers. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I thought the mode was almost identical to the median in the Traveller<BR>&gt; population case?&nbsp; Certainly the mean is a very different beast though!<BR><BR>Could be, it's been a while since I did the figures. But as you say,<BR>they mean is a *very* different beast.<BR><BR>&gt; I've got figures for the mode in KB3.&nbsp; In most cases they are one less<BR>&gt; than the median.&nbsp; (Except Easy, which doesn't have a mode)<BR><BR>Actually, it has 6... :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 10:18:29 -0500<BR>From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Gunbunnies [FILK]<BR><BR>Happy Holidays, one and all!&nbsp; Once more, unto the audial terror, dear <BR>friends....<BR><BR>This time, moving away from the Rebellion theme, a modest commentary on the <BR>heavilly armed Traveller party.<BR><BR><BR>Do Some C-&gt; Roll Again<BR>======================<BR>(from: "Get Some Go Again" by Rollins Band)<BR><BR>_Do some, do some, do some, roll again!_<BR><BR>One look at my guns and you know what I came here for<BR>Take a look at my guns and you know what I came here for<BR>I roll a lot, I roll a lot, I roll a lot of dice<BR>I like it when, I like it when, I like it when they're nice<BR>One look at my guns and you know what I came here for<BR><BR>&lt;chorus&gt;<BR>Do some, do some, do some, roll again!<BR>do some, do some, do some, roll again!<BR><BR>I fight to win, boy, I just want to win the game<BR>I fight to win, boy, I just want to win your game<BR>Happiness is my own Imperial battle dress<BR>You know I even sleep in my Imperial battle dress<BR>My FGMP sounds good and I'm gonna do some damage tonight<BR><BR>&nbsp; &lt;chorus&gt;<BR><BR>Ammunition don't you tell me that I got none left<BR>Ammunition don't you tell me that I got none left<BR>I like it when it's over and another one's begun<BR>I like it when it's over and another one's begun<BR>I look at my gun and it always says it's time to load, load, LOAD!<BR><BR>Do some, do some, do some, DAM-AGE<BR>Do some, do some, do some, DAM-AGE<BR>Do some, do some, do some, ROLL AGAIN!<BR><BR>- -30-<BR><BR><BR>* Being something of a Rollins fan, I'd normally not think of degrading one <BR>of their songs by filking it like this, but it seemed to fit!<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 10:18:30 -0500<BR>From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Son of a Son.... [FILK]<BR><BR>Happy Holidays again!*&nbsp; Had enough yet? =)<BR><BR>Now, for another change of pace, again away from the Rebellion theme, a <BR>song about the lighter and not so violent side of Traveller. It required <BR>remarkably little change to the lyrics.<BR><BR><BR>Son of a Son of a Trader<BR>========================<BR>(from: "Son of a Son of a Sailor" by Jimmy Buffet)<BR><BR>As the son of a son of a trader<BR>I went out to the stars for adventure.<BR>Expanding the views of the captain and crews<BR>Like a man just released from the Vargr<BR><BR>As a dreamer of dreams and a travelin' man<BR>I have dimmed lights for for many a jump.<BR>Read library files, and TAS articles,<BR>But I learned more from citizens' smiles.<BR><BR>&lt;chorus&gt;<BR>Son of a son, son of a son,<BR>Son of a son of a trader<BR>Son of a gun, load the last ton<BR>One step ahead of the corsair<BR><BR>Now away in the Far Future<BR>Spinward of Core Down<BR>You can shake the hand of the customs man<BR>As he greats you at the Startown<BR><BR>And the lady she hails from Regina<BR>Just this side of Depot<BR>Fuel for your ship, it's been quite a trip<BR>(It gets better when you're chased into orbit!)<BR><BR>Fire up the drive as we fly to the stars<BR>That the Ancients had touched before us<BR>Hear the bells ring as the ship's M-drive sings<BR>It's a son of a gun of a chorus<BR><BR>Where it all ends I can't fathom my friends<BR>If I knew I might not even bother<BR>So I cruise along always searchin' for songs<BR>Not a Flyer a Merc or an Other<BR><BR>But a son of a son, son of a son,<BR>Son of a son of a trader<BR>Son of a gun, load the last ton<BR>One step ahead of the corsair<BR><BR>I'm just a son of a son, son of a son,<BR>Son of a son of a trader<BR>Stars are in my veins, my tradition remains<BR>I'm just glad I don't live in a cutter!<BR><BR>- -30-<BR><BR><BR>* I admit, this isn't much of a Holidays gift -- two substandard filks -- <BR>but since I'm no games designer or shipbuilder, I did want to do something, <BR>even if it's not practical, for a great time on the list this past year! =)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 09:34:20 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>"Frank G. Pitt" wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; You didn't read the rest of my post then ?<BR><BR>Yes I did.&nbsp; I was commenting on the first part.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; So are you, your system, will make any of the Traveller systems behave<BR>&gt; completely differently, so it is, in effect, a compltely different system,<BR>&gt; it just uses the same stat and skills values.<BR><BR>KB3 is a different task system that will fit perfectly into other Traveller<BR>rules sets.&nbsp; You do not have to come up with different rules for *everything*<BR>using KB3.&nbsp; I'm not changing dice and what not like you are.<BR><BR>You can take any Traveller book and play it as is (not changing modifiers, dice,<BR>proceedures) using KB3.&nbsp; Your system requires more of a change, and you're even<BR>using new dice other than the D6.<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; And, the idea is to take that as is, and fit in a task system<BR>&gt; &gt; that is plug-n-play with established Traveller rules--AND balances skills<BR>&gt; and stats.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; It's a tall order.&nbsp; Anybody could do it if they completely<BR>&gt; &gt; changed the game (that's what TNE did...that's what GURPS does).<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; The idea is to come up with a task system that can be used in<BR>&gt; &gt; CT...that modernizes MT....that does not have the stat/skill issues T4<BR>&gt; did.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; It may be difficult to come up with something that meets _all_ of your<BR>&gt; requirements, but with the requirements you've listed so far, I don't see it<BR>&gt; as very difficult.<BR><BR>KB3 meets these requirements.<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; The requirements so far seem to be :<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 1. Work with T4, CT &amp; MT statistics and skills.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 2. Make each point of stat and skill count.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 3. Without having stats overpowering skills (this is the one we've just<BR>&gt; added)<BR><BR>Correct.&nbsp; The system must be plug-n-play with the rest of the game.&nbsp; You<BR>shouldn't run into problems if you start running combat with it or using other<BR>throws listing in the game.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; The second one will mean that your system will not be like any of the base<BR>&gt; systems, as they do&nbsp; not do this. To get such a system you will have to<BR>&gt; carry out some sort of function on the stats and skills.<BR><BR>No.&nbsp; In KB3, every point of stat counts in measuring the success of your roll.<BR>Every point of skill counts in determining the success of your roll.<BR><BR>Neither of the two overpower the other, and every point counts.<BR><BR>I think that you're thinking that you have to use them both to determine<BR>success.&nbsp; You don't have to do this.&nbsp; I've separated their jobs.<BR><BR>In MT, both skill and stat are used to modify a generic roll for success, then<BR>an abstract number is used to measure the dice roll.<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Ex:&nbsp; Skill-2, Stat-7 characters gets +3 to a 2D6 dice roll;&nbsp; if he rolls 2+<BR>over his target number, he gets spectacular success, if he gets 2- under his<BR>target number, he gets spectacular failure.<BR><BR>Under KB3, I've tuned this to be reflected by character ability instead of using<BR>so many generic, abstract numbers that apply to every character regardless of<BR>their abilities.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Ex:&nbsp; In KB3, the skill determines what you get to roll--it determines<BR>success.&nbsp; The stat determines how good you did--if you made Greater Success<BR>etc--and this is now tied logically to the character, not some generic, abstract<BR>number.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; As I have already suggested, if you don't like the weight between stat and<BR>&gt; skill of just adding them together, then change it.<BR><BR>I did!&nbsp; Take a look at KB2.0 listed on the Freelance Traveller site from four<BR>years ago!<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; Double the skill.<BR>&gt; Average stat &amp; skill. Do both. Use more dice. There a numerous ways of doing<BR>&gt; this, and none of them change the base systems any more than requirement 2<BR>&gt; already has done.<BR><BR>You can do that.&nbsp; But KB3 is a better choice for obvious reasons.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; I'd rather look at a statistical analysis of the entire system, indivdual<BR>&gt; examples are meaningless.<BR><BR>&gt; If you can provide a three-dimensional graph of probability of success (and<BR>&gt; preferably probability of failure as well) versus your function combining<BR>&gt; stat and skill and how it changes as modifiers and/or target numbers are<BR>&gt; changed (or just the tabulated data from such an analysis, I can create the<BR>&gt; appropriate graph myself) then I will be able to see whether there any<BR>&gt; problems or not.<BR><BR>Well, I'm not going to go to all that work when I know the system is sound<BR>statistically, but you're welcome to do whatever stat tests you like and post<BR>any problems here.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 09:37:00 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Revised Summary of KB3<BR><BR>"Frank G. Pitt" wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; In general, it is still far too complicated for me to comsider using it.<BR><BR>What is so complicated about rolling a number of dice equal to your skill level<BR>plus and E-Die and comparing your result to your stat?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 09:44:45 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Revised Summary of KB3<BR><BR>"Frank G. Pitt" wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; More importantly perhaps, it is too difficult to easily figure out what the<BR>&gt; probability of success is for any particular throw.<BR><BR>A character has Skill-2, Stat-7.&nbsp; He makes an Average Throw.&nbsp; I'll use the<BR>static target number (7+) because you're concerned with figuring probability.<BR><BR>The guy throws 3D6 (skill level plus the E-Die).<BR><BR>The guy has a 91% chance of throwing 7+<BR><BR>There is a 33% that a 1 or 6 will turn up on the E-Die.<BR><BR><BR>If it is important to you to figure the effects of the E-Die as well, maybe you<BR>should go with a % based system or use a straight 2D system where the<BR>percentages are already worked out.<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Note that ome of my comments refer primarily to the structure of the<BR>&gt; document, I ask questions that I _know_ are answered further down the<BR>&gt; document, but which _should_ have been explained prior to the point at which<BR>&gt; I ask the question.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Also, I'm assuming when I'm reading this I haven't got access to your other<BR>&gt; posts, which do explain some of the problems I point out below.&nbsp; The point,<BR>&gt; of course, is that your document needs to explain them in isolation.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Kenneth Bearden wrote :<BR>&gt; &gt; The discussion here on the TML has brought on a couple of changes.&nbsp; Here<BR>&gt; &gt; is the reposted KB3 Summary.......<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; One of the things I like about KB3 is that you don't need any<BR>&gt; &gt; "derivative" modifiers--you're not dividing anything or figuring some<BR>&gt; &gt; sort of modifier.&nbsp; All you need to use the system is the character's<BR>&gt; &gt; Stats and his Skills.&nbsp; Nothing else.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I would not call this a Good Thing(TM).<BR>&gt; Stats and skills are not the only thing that affect the outcome.<BR>&gt; You need other modfiers. In fact later on you mention how to include these<BR>&gt; modifiers, so this statement is innaccurate as well.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; The TASK THROW is a two step process....<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; (1)&nbsp; Throw a number of D6 equal to Skill plus the E-Die vs. a target<BR>&gt; &gt; number.<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; (Target number can be randomly rolled if desired.)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; (2)&nbsp; Compare your total to the Skill's governing Stat.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; This implies that low skill numbers are better than high skill numbers.<BR>&gt; If you have a skill of 1, you roll one die, you are more likely to succeed<BR>&gt; (roll under your stat) than you are if you have a skill of six.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Difficulty Table<BR>&gt; &gt; -----------------------------<BR>&gt; &gt; 3+&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; or&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Easy<BR>&gt; &gt; 7+&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; or&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Average<BR>&gt; &gt; 11+&nbsp;&nbsp; or&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 3D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Difficult<BR>&gt; &gt; 15+&nbsp;&nbsp; or&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 4D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Formidable<BR>&gt; &gt; 19+&nbsp;&nbsp; or&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 5D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Staggering<BR>&gt; &gt; 23+&nbsp;&nbsp; or&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 6D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Impossible<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; This table isn't mentioned in the previous description, how is it used ?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; NOTES &amp; COMMENTS.............................................<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; (A)&nbsp; E-DIE:<BR>&gt; &gt; This is your "Event Die"...your "Explosion Die".&nbsp; It should be a<BR>&gt; &gt; different color or size from the rest.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; If a "6" turns up on the E-Die, double all "even" numbered dice.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; If a "1" turns up on the E-Die, remove all "odd" numbered dice from the<BR>&gt; &gt; throw.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; This requires too much thought for each die roll, it also has _very_ strange<BR>&gt; effects on the probability curves.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Otherwise, count the E-Die normally.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Quick Play Tip:<BR>&gt; &gt; On a "6", count all even dice, double that amount, add the rest.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "count" all even dice ?&nbsp; Don't you mean "total" all even dice.<BR>&gt; (These terms have very different meanings)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; The E-Die is always rolled as a part of the task throw, and it can be<BR>&gt; &gt; the only die rolled if the specific skill used is skill level 0.&nbsp; (The<BR>&gt; &gt; E-Die is also always rolled when random difficulty is thrown and when<BR>&gt; &gt; Opposed Throws are made.)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; (B)&nbsp; MEASURING A Successful Throw:<BR>&gt; &gt; This is from "step two" of the task throw (above).&nbsp; Your throw is<BR>&gt; &gt; successful if your throw his higher than your difficulty number.&nbsp; Once<BR>&gt; &gt; you've thrown, you compare your total with the governing stat of the<BR>&gt; &gt; skill.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; So we're talking multiple die rolls, _and_ multiple comparisons, just for<BR>&gt; what would be one roll and one comparison in T4 or CT.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; GREATER SUCCESS occurs when your total is below or equal to your Stat.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; OK,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; (Regular) SUCCESS occurs when your total lies within the range equal to<BR>&gt; &gt; your difficulty number plus your Stat.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Ah, this is how you use diffculty.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; MARGINAL SUCCESS occurs when your total is greater than your difficulty<BR>&gt; &gt; number plus your Stat.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; So when does _failure_ occur&nbsp; ? The above three results cover every<BR>&gt; possibility.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; (C)&nbsp; MEASURING An Unsuccessful Throw:<BR>&gt; &gt; This is from "step two" of the task throw (above).&nbsp; Your throw is not<BR>&gt; &gt; successful if your throw his equal to or lower than your difficulty<BR>&gt; &gt; number.&nbsp; Once you've thrown, you compare your total with the governing<BR>&gt; &gt; stat of the skill.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; (Regular) FAILURE occurs when your throw falls within the range of<BR>&gt; &gt; difficulty number minus Stat.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; GREATER FAILURE occurs when your throw is lower than your difficulty<BR>&gt; &gt; number minus Stat.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Oh so we use difficulty in another way as well ?<BR>&gt; This was not mentioned in the original description<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; This implies you must both roll higher than the difficulty, and at the same<BR>&gt; time roll under your stat.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; This means if your stat is less than your difficulty, you _cannot_ succeed.<BR>&gt; So difficulties of 23 are a waste of time, as we only have stats of up to<BR>&gt; 15.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Of course, the above rules also state that you succeed when you roll under<BR>&gt; stat plus difficulty, which means you also always succeed !<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; To say the least these rules are inconsistent and need much better<BR>&gt; clarification, if not actual fixing !<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; (D)&nbsp; FUMBLE - MISHAP:<BR>&gt; &gt; A Fumble or a Mishap occurs when your throw is equal to or less than 0.<BR>&gt; &gt; This can sometimes happen when a "1" appears on the E-Die.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; No it can't.&nbsp; At least not according to your description.<BR>&gt; Did you perhaps mean _subtract_ the values when you roll a 1 on the E-die<BR>&gt; rather than _remove_ ?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; (E)&nbsp; STATIC - RANDOM DIFFICULTY:<BR>&gt; &gt; You have a choice in determining difficulty numbers.&nbsp; The GM may pick a<BR>&gt; &gt; static difficulty number (just like in MT), or random difficulty may be<BR>&gt; &gt; rolled.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; If random difficulty is chosen, treat it like an Oppossed Roll.&nbsp; The<BR>&gt; &gt; Task Roll is throw first, and then the Difficulty Throw is made.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Always use the E-Die when throwing random difficulty numbers.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Random difficulty throws are not "measured".&nbsp; There is no stat to<BR>&gt; &gt; compare them to.&nbsp; The GM cannot throw a "Greater Success" with a<BR>&gt; &gt; difficulty throw.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Then what the heck do you compare them with ?<BR>&gt; And how about some justification for what to me seems a pointless mechanic ?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; (F)&nbsp; AUTOMATIC SUCCESS:<BR>&gt; &gt; If ever the difficulty number is reduced to 0 or below, the task is an<BR>&gt; &gt; automatic success.&nbsp; This can happen to static target numbers when<BR>&gt; &gt; modifiers are applied, and this can happen to random difficulty numbers<BR>&gt; &gt; as a result of modifiers or the E-Die.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Pardon ?? How can the difficulty number be reduced either way ?<BR>&gt; And this takes _no_ account of statistics or skill, surely you should be<BR>&gt; comparing to<BR>&gt; skill level or something, not zero.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Yes, you have an "Option" that may handle this, but this should probably be<BR>&gt; referred to here if you don't want comments such as these. People usually<BR>&gt; ignore "options' on first reading.<BR>&gt; Personally, I think this "Option" should be built in.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; (G)&nbsp; MODIFIERS:<BR>&gt; &gt; Any modifiers to a task throw, whether benificial to the character<BR>&gt; &gt; attempting the task or detrimental, are applied to the difficulty--not<BR>&gt; &gt; the Task Throw.&nbsp; Allow a player to throw, then apply modifiers to move<BR>&gt; &gt; the difficulty number up and down.&nbsp; This applies to both static target<BR>&gt; &gt; numbers and random difficulty throws.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Ah, so this is how the difficulty can change.<BR>&gt; But, this should be done _before_ the roll is attempted, unless the<BR>&gt; character is completely unskilled they should have some idea of how<BR>&gt; difficult the task is. Doesn't mean the ajudicator can't add "hidden<BR>&gt; modifiers" (ones the character is unwaware of) afterwards, but the player<BR>&gt; should be aware of non-hidden modifiers before making the attempt<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; (H)&nbsp; OPPOSED ROLLS:<BR>&gt; &gt; Sometimes, a character will be going up against another character (hand<BR>&gt; &gt; to hand fighting is a good example of this), and normal difficulty is<BR>&gt; &gt; not used.&nbsp; Instead, the difficulty is replaced by a task roll made for<BR>&gt; &gt; the defending character.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Note that this will _seriously_ affect the system, the game will be<BR>&gt; _nothing_ like T4 or CT if you do this. I'll admit I like doing it this way<BR>&gt; myself, but it does change the way the game works quite considerably.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Ex:&nbsp; Two characters are fighting hand-to-hand.&nbsp; To make a strike, the<BR>&gt; &gt; character with initiative throws a Brawling task roll.&nbsp; The defending<BR>&gt; &gt; character also throws a Brawling task throw to defend himself.&nbsp; The<BR>&gt; &gt; higher of the wins the toss.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Remember that Opposed Rolls are basically random difficulty throws--so<BR>&gt; &gt; all modifiers are applied to the defending roll.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Since a defending Opposed Roll is made for a character, the throw is<BR>&gt; &gt; measured (where as most difficulty throws are not measured).&nbsp; Therefore,<BR>&gt; &gt; the defending Brawler in the example above could defend himself, rolling<BR>&gt; &gt; a Greater Success (if this happened, I'd say that the Brawler not only<BR>&gt; &gt; blocked the attack, but he also damaged his attacker in the process!).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; What about armour ?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; In CT, armour is included in the "to hit" roll based on weapon type.<BR>&gt; How do you handle weapon type and armour in this system ?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; (I)&nbsp; SKILL DEFINITIONS:<BR>&gt; &gt; In order to make a task roll under the KB3 system, a character must have<BR>&gt; &gt; a skill (but this does not mean that the skill is listed on the<BR>&gt; &gt; character's sheet).<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; DEFAULT SKILL:&nbsp; Any skill a character may attempt without the<BR>&gt; &gt; requirement of special training is a Default Skill.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Ex:&nbsp; If you saw a rifle lying on a table, you could pick it up and shoot<BR>&gt; &gt; it even though you've never been trained.&nbsp; You might not be any good,<BR>&gt; &gt; but you can operate the weapon.&nbsp; Rifle is a Default Skill.&nbsp; Swimming is<BR>&gt; &gt; not--you have to learn to swim.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; All characters have every Default Skill as skill level 0.&nbsp; There is no<BR>&gt; &gt; need to write any Default Skills on the character's sheet (because all<BR>&gt; &gt; characters have them) unless the character has improved the skill to<BR>&gt; &gt; level 1 or higher.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Have you tought about the results you get in this case ?<BR>&gt; I suppose that the character with no skill uses _only_ a single die (the<BR>&gt; E-die)<BR>&gt; which means they will _never_ succeed unless it is an Easy task, or there<BR>&gt; are other modifiers to lower the difficulty.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Sorry, but I don't like that, it makes the "default" skill much less useful<BR>&gt; than it currently is, and it doesn't adequately model reality. Using your<BR>&gt; example, picking up a rifle and firing with no skill may still result, IRL,<BR>&gt; in a succeful hit even if the task is really difficult.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; With zero level skills in CT, I could succeed much more readily than I can<BR>&gt; under this system.<BR>&gt; Of course, if that is a design goal, then you have suceeded.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; NON-DEFAULT SKILL:&nbsp; Any skill that cannot be used without special<BR>&gt; &gt; training is a non-default skill.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Ex:&nbsp; Nobody can just sit on a starship and begin piloting the vessel<BR>&gt; &gt; without prior training, therefore Pilot is a non-default skill.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Swimming is a non-default skill.&nbsp; Engineering is a non-default skill.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; All non-default skills must be listed on the character's sheet (and<BR>&gt; &gt; sometimes these skills will be skill level 0).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Hmm, I'd argue that is not the case.<BR>&gt; There are very few non-default skills, such as langauges that are not<BR>&gt; related to any languages you know, and possibly swimming and riding a<BR>&gt; bycycle, and several knowledges. Everything else people can try to do, so a<BR>&gt; good system should be able to handle characters trying to carry out<BR>&gt; all skills.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; (J)&nbsp; GOVERNING ATTRIBUTES:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Don't use the term "attribute" if elsewhere you use statistic, and there are<BR>&gt; no other "attributes". Tryu and use the same term all the time.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; BTW, you stole this bit from either "Daredevils" or "Aftermath" didn't you ?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; When you measure a skill (detailed above), you compare your roll with<BR>&gt; &gt; the skill's governing attribute.&nbsp; Under KB3, you do not have to use<BR>&gt; &gt; pre-established, hard-defined governing attributes as listed in the T4<BR>&gt; &gt; rule book (or any other Traveller reference).&nbsp; And you do not have to<BR>&gt; &gt; indicate a skill's governing attribute on the character's sheet (because<BR>&gt; &gt; the governing attribute may change).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Instead, simply pick which attribute is logically best suited to the<BR>&gt; &gt; type of roll you are making.&nbsp; This could change from roll to roll.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; This is, IMO, a great idea.<BR>&gt; We used it in our system also, though again it totally changes the wayu that<BR>&gt; skills work.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; (K)&nbsp; ATTRIBUTE ROLLS:<BR>&gt; &gt; Sometimes, a character will need to make a roll to force open a door (a<BR>&gt; &gt; Str check) or keep his balance while he walked on a narrow cat-walk (a<BR>&gt; &gt; Dex check) or some other similar roll.&nbsp; All task throws under the KB3<BR>&gt; &gt; system use skills--no rolls are based on pure attributes.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; When these situations occur, you should first check to see if the<BR>&gt; &gt; character has a skill he can use listed on his sheet.&nbsp; The Athletics<BR>&gt; &gt; skill from T4 is perfect for these situations.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; If the character has no appropriate skill listed on his sheet, this task<BR>&gt; &gt; roll falls under the Default Skill rule listed above (because some skill<BR>&gt; &gt; out there *will* cover the task and no special training is required).<BR>&gt; &gt; Therefore, no matter which skill is needed (climbing, jumping, lifting,<BR>&gt; &gt; etc), the charcter has the skill at level 0 under the Default rule.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; No attribute rolls, huh ?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Quick Play Tip:<BR>&gt; &gt; Don't bother figuring exactly which skill is needed.&nbsp; If no skill on the<BR>&gt; &gt; character's sheet applies to the situation, simply roll 1D for the<BR>&gt; &gt; character.&nbsp; (Because he *has* the skill at level 0 under the Default<BR>&gt; &gt; skill rule--it doesn't matter which specific skill it is.)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; A SPECIAL MODIFIER is used on these rolls to reflect the greater<BR>&gt; &gt; importance a character's stats play in these task rolls.&nbsp; Whenever a<BR>&gt; &gt; character attempts an attribute roll, use the stat as a modifier to<BR>&gt; &gt; decrease the difficulty (subtract the stat from the static target number<BR>&gt; &gt; or the difficulty number rolled randomly).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; In other words you _do_ have attribute rolls.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; This is poorly writen. Rather than saying you have no attribuite rolls and<BR>&gt; then showing people how to do attribute rolls, you&nbsp; should just show them<BR>&gt; how to do attribute rolls, and not try to pretend you don't have them.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; This modifier is always applied under these conditions, and it does not<BR>&gt; &gt; matter if the character is using a skill from his sheet (like Athletics)<BR>&gt; &gt; or a Default skill at level 0.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; (L)&nbsp; SKILL OPTIONS:<BR>&gt; &gt; Under KB3, characters have options based on their skill level.&nbsp; The<BR>&gt; &gt; higher skilled the character is, the more options he has.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; As you saw above, a character's skill level determines how many dice can<BR>&gt; &gt; be thrown.&nbsp; That is one option.&nbsp; But, there are others.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; OPTION 1:&nbsp; A player is allowed to throw a number of D6 equal to his<BR>&gt; &gt; character's skill level plus the E-Die when throwing for a task.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; OPTION 2:&nbsp; A player may elect to use one or all of his character's skill<BR>&gt; &gt; points to increase the skill's governing stat for measuring purposes.<BR>&gt; &gt; This will make it easier for him to roll Greater Success and give him<BR>&gt; &gt; bigger ranges in the other measuring categories.&nbsp; (All skill points may<BR>&gt; &gt; be used in this manner, but the E-Die is always thrown to achieve<BR>&gt; &gt; success on the roll.)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; OPTION 3:&nbsp; A player may elect to use one of all of his character's skill<BR>&gt; &gt; points to reduce his difficulty number.&nbsp; In this instance, use the stat<BR>&gt; &gt; as a modifier to reduce a difficulty roll or simply subtract the stat<BR>&gt; &gt; from the static target number.&nbsp; (If difficulty is reduced to 0 or below,<BR>&gt; &gt; the task results in automatic success.&nbsp; All skill points may be used in<BR>&gt; &gt; this manner, but the E-Die is always thrown to achieve success on the<BR>&gt; &gt; roll.)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; OPTION 4:&nbsp; A player may decide to mix any of the options above.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; These Options are great, but add even more complexity, especially to<BR>&gt; analysing the system<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; If Difficulty is reduced to zero, what is the point of rolling the E-Die ?<BR>&gt; You will always succeed<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; (M)&nbsp; SHOULD A PLAYER BE TOLD DIFFICULTY?<BR>&gt; &gt; This is up to the GM.&nbsp; In my games, if a charcter can guage the<BR>&gt; &gt; difficulty of a task (how hard does it look to climb that cliff?), I<BR>&gt; &gt; will tell the player what the difficulty category is (Easy, Average,<BR>&gt; &gt; Difficult, etc...).&nbsp; If the character cannot guage difficulty (I wonder<BR>&gt; &gt; what kind of defense that guy over there would put up if I hit him in<BR>&gt; &gt; the face?), then I will give the player no indication of difficulty.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Good discussion, but perhaps not appropriate for what you labelled the<BR>&gt; "summary"<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; BTW, I think that how accurate the characters ability to gauge a difficulty<BR>&gt; is depends on their skills. An player who is an experienced climber should<BR>&gt; have little problem estimating the difficulty of a climb, one who is not<BR>&gt; might make a big mistke, and should be the subject of another roll (a<BR>&gt; "perception" roll).<BR>&gt; In your latter example, a good fighter might well be able to size up an<BR>&gt; opponent and determine how difficult they are likely to be.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; That they can't determine it, is IMO another good reason why you don' want<BR>&gt; to use random difficulties.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Note that if you are using static target numbers a player will know the<BR>&gt; &gt; *exact* difficulty of the throw because each difficulty category is<BR>&gt; &gt; assigned one target number.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; If you are using random difficulties, on the other hand, the player will<BR>&gt; &gt; only get an idea of the range of target numbers he will be up against<BR>&gt; &gt; (and the E-Die will come into play).<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Use whichever method best suits your game.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; In general, I _really_ don't understand the point of having a random target<BR>&gt; number. To me that means that stat and skill have almost no affect on the<BR>&gt; outcome, what most greatly affects the outcome is how you determine the<BR>&gt; target number. This seems to be acting against your stated goals.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Sorry to rip this apart, but if you're _ever_ thinking of publishing<BR>&gt; something like this you seriously need someone with technical writing<BR>&gt; skills, and someone who understands game design to work with you. As itr<BR>&gt; stands, it is not possible to use these rules without making large<BR>&gt; assumptions about what is meant and deciding which rules to ignore where<BR>&gt; they conflict.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3467<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yd01.mx.aol.com (rly-yd01.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.1]) by air-yd01.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Tue, 26 Dec 2000 11:14:25 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yd01.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Tue, 26 Dec 2000 11:13:48 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id KAA29591;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Tue, 26 Dec 2000 10:47:23 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Tue, 26 Dec 2000 10:46:44 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id KAA29547<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Tue, 26 Dec 2000 10:46:44 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 10:46:44 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012261546.KAA29547@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3467<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3468</B></TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, December 26 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3468<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Revised Summary of KB3<BR>RE: Lend-Lease (with ObTrav's!!)<BR>RE: Aliens (was Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR>RE: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Flexibility<BR>RE: Revised Summary of KB3<BR>Optional Rule: Measuring Your Throw<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: Revised Summary of KB3<BR>Re: Revised Summary of KB3<BR>RE: Revised Summary of KB3<BR>RE: Revised Summary of KB3<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 09:56:56 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Revised Summary of KB3<BR><BR>"Frank G. Pitt" wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; This implies that low skill numbers are better than high skill numbers.<BR>&gt; If you have a skill of 1, you roll one die, you are more likely to succeed<BR>&gt; (roll under your stat) than you are if you have a skill of six.<BR><BR>KB3 is a "sweet spot" system.&nbsp; You've got to roll high enough to beat your<BR>target number but once you've done that, lower is better to make Greater<BR>Success.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Difficulty Table<BR>&gt; &gt; -----------------------------<BR>&gt; &gt; 3+&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; or&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Easy<BR>&gt; &gt; 7+&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; or&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Average<BR>&gt; &gt; 11+&nbsp;&nbsp; or&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 3D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Difficult<BR>&gt; &gt; 15+&nbsp;&nbsp; or&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 4D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Formidable<BR>&gt; &gt; 19+&nbsp;&nbsp; or&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 5D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Staggering<BR>&gt; &gt; 23+&nbsp;&nbsp; or&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 6D&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Impossible<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; This table isn't mentioned in the previous description, how is it used ?<BR><BR>Did you not see in the first step that you roll versus a target number (and I<BR>put in parentheses that you can roll that target number randomly, if you like).<BR><BR>Have you ever played an RPG before?<BR><BR><BR>&gt; "count" all even dice ?&nbsp; Don't you mean "total" all even dice.<BR>&gt; (These terms have very different meanings)<BR><BR>You know...I'm not even going to finish reading your post.<BR><BR>If you want to talk intelligently about about KB3, I'll do that.&nbsp; But, if your<BR>input has no other value than to make comments like this--comments I "assume"<BR>you are making just to be combative (because I don't think you're that<BR>ignorant), then you are not worth my time.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 09:42:42 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: RE: Lend-Lease (with ObTrav's!!)<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: RE: Lend-Lease (with ObTrav's!!)<BR>...<BR>&gt;The thing which strikes me about the Pacific war is how quickly the tide<BR>&gt;turned.&nbsp; The Japanese start their offensive in December '41, and it was<BR>&gt;halted in May '42 (Battle of the Coral Sea).&nbsp;&nbsp; The last major Japanese<BR>&gt;success (the surrender of the last US forces in the Philippines) was a day<BR>&gt;or two before the battle of Midway (early June '42).&nbsp; After that it was<BR>&gt;Guadalcanal, Milne Bay and the Kokoda Track (plus whatever was happening in<BR>&gt;Burma).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;In other words, the Japanese were pretty much defeated within six or seven<BR>&gt;months, although the counter-offensive took years to recover the territory<BR>&gt;they had seized.<BR><BR>&nbsp; I'll take a bit of issue with your conflating "offensive advantage<BR>exhausted" &amp; defeated, but your point is made.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Hmm, was the Imperium "defeated" after the conquest of Terra in 1002?<BR>There's probably IN courses on the "correct" answer to _that_ one...<BR><BR>&gt;What was the role of British-sourced radar in the Coral Sea and at Midway? <BR>&gt;I dunno, but it probably didn't hurt the Allies to have it available.<BR><BR>&nbsp; AFAIK it's utility was more in the attritional struggles - higher loss<BR>ratios at Guadalcanal would likely only have slowed the US offensive,<BR>but it's still a delay, and unpleasant. And you also get to ramp up the<BR>carnage from kamikazes substantially, sit off-shore much longer, _and_<BR>fully execute the home-island landings, too! &lt;gag&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;I am not entirely sure that invading Japan would have been necessary.&nbsp; I<BR>&gt;think once the Kwantung Army got stomped by the Red Army, it would have<BR>&gt;been pretty obvious that Japan was sunk, even to the most hardened idiots. <BR><BR>&nbsp; By mid-`45 the US was not willing to accept Soviet domination of East<BR>Asia as the cost of getting Japanese acknowledgement of the change of<BR>status of the Pacific.<BR><BR>&gt;But then again, there are the conspiracy theories that the nukes were<BR>&gt;dropped as a hint to the Soviets.<BR><BR>&nbsp; I could be wrong, but AFAIK that's a lot more commonly accepted than<BR>any conspiracy theory and many bits of received wisdom :|<BR><BR>...<BR>&gt;There is a nice little section in one of the books where the US government<BR>&gt;approached the Australian government for permission to use airfields in<BR>&gt;Australia and New Guinea to send B-17s to the Philippines.&nbsp; This was in<BR>&gt;mid-'41 or so.&nbsp; There is something of an implication that the Australian<BR>&gt;government were not at all unhappy with the prospect of US forces being<BR>&gt;present in Australia in the event of a Japanese attack.&nbsp; In fact, turning<BR>&gt;cartwheels with joy seems to be implied.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Hard to blame them, given the Brits over-extension at the time :(<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Steven Hudson<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 13:25:18 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Aliens (was Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR><BR>At 1:26 PM +1300 12/26/00, Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Vincent Ward, who is a damn good director (see "The Navigator" or "Vigil",<BR>&gt;the later being worthy of far greater praise than it has received to date.)<BR>&gt;had been promised creative control, and when the suits reneged he walked<BR>&gt;out, requesting that his name be removed from the film, leaving some hack to<BR>&gt;come in and take over in attempt to get the film finished.<BR><BR>Haven't seen "Vigil", but agree with you about "The Navigator" -- <BR>though I think the people that dislike A3 would have been even MORE <BR>outraged and disgusted with&nbsp; one in Ward's style.&nbsp; Plus, I have to <BR>say, the "Snow White" plot sounds a little precious... difficult to <BR>pull off without seeming as flat and silly as, oh, say, Aliens: <BR>Ressurection ;(<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 07:10:41 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; But is it a star a long ways off or a nearby fusion plant? :-)<BR><BR>Doesn't matter.&nbsp; It will be only one of thousands of neutrino sources.<BR>In other words, it will probably make a 0.0001 difference to the<BR>correlation.<BR><BR>&gt; Yes, I know, there are probably ways to figure that out. But I bet that<BR>&gt; the PCs won't have much better ideas than we do until they've done a<BR>&gt; lot of digging in the ship's library. :-)<BR><BR>Given neutrino sensor data, a standard astrogation database, and even<BR>my home PC (let alone a far-future ship's computer) I bet it would<BR>take me only an hour or so to write a program to tell me which sources<BR>were which.&nbsp; Simple correlation test with only 6 degrees of freedom.<BR><BR>There may be some unidentified sources if the neutrino source doesn't<BR>appear on any astrogation chart, but that doesn't matter if all I need<BR>it for is determining my position and orientation to do a jump out to<BR>a star within a few parsecs.&nbsp; Then I log those sources -- I'm sure<BR>there'd be someone willing to pay for information about large nuclear<BR>reactions not appearing on any charts :^)<BR><BR><BR>[...extra sensors more useful in a nebula...]<BR>&gt; Which makes things *real* fun if you wind up there as the result of a<BR>&gt; misjump. Especially if you'd planned to pick them up at your intended<BR>&gt; destination. &lt;eg&gt;<BR><BR>Yes, pleasant thought, no?<BR><BR><BR>&gt; But I don't think anyone would be surprised to find multi km chunks of<BR>&gt; nickel-iron out there. I think they'd be more surprised if there<BR>&gt; *weren't* any. <BR><BR>I tend to agree.&nbsp; But we've had surprises before :^)<BR><BR><BR>&gt; But even a measly 1 km diameter nickel iron body would be dangerous if<BR>&gt; you assumed that it was "risky but safe" to jump at 10 km out. Or that<BR>&gt; it was "safe" at 100 km out. :-)<BR><BR>I wonder if starships have sensors that can tell whether it's safe to<BR>jump?<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Well, building an Alderson disk is a *lot* harder than building a<BR>&gt; ringworld. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; It's also so much *bigger* that it'd *really* imbalance a game.<BR><BR>I can just imagine coming across one after misjumping into a nebula<BR>=8-O<BR><BR>It doesn't have to be inhabited by anything intelligent.&nbsp; You're<BR>right, though -- it would be very unbalancing.&nbsp; If it was inhabited by<BR>anything vaguely like people it would probably have greater population<BR>than all the planets of all other races combined.&nbsp; Not to mention the<BR>technology needed to create it in the first place, some of which may<BR>be usable to whoever found it.&nbsp; And if the inhabitants still have full<BR>use of that technology, well ...<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Well, I'm luck in that Fidonet's "NASA" fileecho carries them picture<BR>&gt; of the day files as well as things like the updated orbital elements<BR>&gt; files some programs want. So I get them automatically. :-)<BR><BR>Lucky you!<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 11:21:41 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces))<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; I always liked 1.5L or 2L coke bottles filled with water. If you<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; push them into the ground a few inches upside down and hit them a<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; bit low the 'top' end of the bottle will often 'lift off' like a<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; rocket. Sometimes they'll fly up 30-40 feet.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; But it occurs to me that you could make some *very* reactive "reactive<BR>&gt;&gt; targets" by putting the right amount of dry ice into a bottle just<BR>&gt;&gt; before filling it with water. <BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Get it right, and it'd be safe to handle, but go up impressively when<BR>&gt;&gt; struck by a bullet.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Actually, probably not, unless you shot them quickly.&nbsp; I did this in <BR>&gt; college (along with several quite impressive feats of pyrotechnics).&nbsp; <BR>&gt; Add 1 small piece of dry ice (a sphere just small enough to fit <BR>&gt; thorugh the neck) to a 2 liter plastic bottle half full of water, and it <BR>&gt; expands, rocks alarmingly, and explodes with great force.&nbsp; It's <BR>&gt; quite honestly one of the louder noises I've heard.&nbsp; Try it if you have <BR>&gt; some dry ice on hand, but don't expect such things to be useful as <BR>&gt; targets very long (the explosion occured around 2-3 minutes after <BR>&gt; the botle was closed).&nbsp; Stand well back too, it's pretty violent.<BR><BR>The thing is, if you get the proportions right. it *won't explode. At<BR>least not until struck sharply. The trick is getting the pressure to<BR>where it can handled with a modicum of safety, but still make an<BR>impressive bang when hit by a bullet.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 11:24:47 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>Kenneth Beardwen wrote :<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; So are you, your system, will make any of the Traveller systems behave<BR>&gt; &gt; completely differently, so it is, in effect, a compltely<BR>&gt; &gt; different system,it just uses the same stat and skills values.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; KB3 is a different task system that will fit perfectly into other<BR>&gt; Traveller rules sets.<BR><BR>This is irelevant to my point, the _effect_ of the system is to completely<BR>change the way the ssystem works, even if it fits in with existing stat and<BR>skill values.<BR><BR>&gt; You do not have to come up with different rules for<BR>&gt; *everything* using KB3.&nbsp; I'm not changing dice and what not like you are.<BR><BR>Yes, you are. You are making use of variable numbers of dice. That is<BR>completely changing the existing dice mechanic.<BR><BR>&gt; You can take any Traveller book and play it as is (not changing<BR>&gt; modifiers, dice, proceedures) using KB3.&nbsp; Your system requires more of a<BR>change,<BR>&gt; and you're even using new dice other than the D6.<BR><BR>Actually, I wasn't discussing a particular system, I was merely pointing out<BR>the possibilities. If I designed a system for Traveller I'd probably stick<BR>with 2D6.<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; It may be difficult to come up with something that meets _all_ of your<BR>&gt; &gt; requirements, but with the requirements you've listed so far, I<BR>&gt; &gt; don't see it as very difficult.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; KB3 meets these requirements.<BR><BR>And so could a number of other much simpler system that do not change the<BR>game quite so much, and which are easier to analyse to show that they do in<BR>fact meet those requirments.<BR>See below.<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; The requirements so far seem to be :<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; 1. Work with T4, CT &amp; MT statistics and skills.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; 2. Make each point of stat and skill count.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; 3. Without having stats overpowering skills (this is the one we've just<BR>&gt; &gt; added)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Correct.&nbsp; The system must be plug-n-play with the rest of the game.&nbsp; You<BR>&gt; shouldn't run into problems if you start running combat with it<BR>&gt; or using other throws listing in the game.<BR><BR>Then, seeing as you said you weren't going to read the rest of one of my<BR>earlier posts,<BR>please explain how KB3 works propperly with CT weapon and armour modifiers.<BR><BR>I would guess you could use them as modifiers on the difficulty, as that<BR>seems to be where you apply modifiers.<BR><BR>But KB3 mechanics are completely different to 2D6, so to get the same<BR>_effect_ as the weapon tables you have to modify the values in these tables.<BR><BR>If you don't change them, then you are changing the effectiveness of all the<BR>weapons and armour in Traveller.<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; The second one will mean that your system will not be<BR>&gt; &gt; like any of the base systems, as they do not do this.<BR>&gt; &gt; To get such a system you will have to carry out some<BR>&gt; &gt; sort of function on the stats and skills.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; No.&nbsp; In KB3, every point of stat counts in measuring the success<BR>&gt; of your roll.<BR><BR>Exactly. Which means that your system is not like the base Traveller systems<BR>it's built upon, as I said.<BR><BR>&gt; Every point of skill counts in determining the success of your roll.<BR>&gt; Neither of the two overpower the other, and every point counts.<BR><BR>Having examined your system, these claims are not obviously true.<BR><BR>Yes, you use all the points, I have yet to see evidence that your stated<BR>claims of not having one overpower the other are true. All I see is that it<BR>will be difficult to prove or disprove this point, because of the complexity<BR>of the system.<BR><BR>Also, 'every point counts' in the existing game, just not neccessarily as<BR>much as _other_ points.<BR><BR>&gt; I think that you're thinking that you have to use them both to determine<BR>&gt; success.&nbsp; You don't have to do this.<BR><BR>But your system does.<BR><BR>&gt;I've separated their jobs.<BR><BR>That's true, but they are still both being used to determine success.<BR><BR><BIG snip><BR>&gt; You can do that.&nbsp; But KB3 is a better choice for obvious reasons.<BR><BR>These reason may be obvious to you, but they are not to me.<BR><BR>KB3 is, IMO, more complicated and takes longer, and right now it has too<BR>many ambiguities in it's description to be usd reliably.<BR><BR>To me, these drawbacks are not outweighed by the minor gain of having stats<BR>&amp; skills have more effect on game play.&nbsp; Are there any other benefits of KB3<BR>?<BR><BR>&gt; Well, I'm not going to go to all that work when I know the system is sound<BR>&gt; statistically, but you're welcome to do whatever stat tests you<BR>&gt; like and post any problems here.<BR><BR>In other words, and as I suspected, you really have no idea whether the<BR>system is statistically sound, because you haven't performed a proper<BR>analysis.<BR><BR>That's not such a big deal, White Wolf never bothered either, but don't go<BR>round claiming your system is statistically sound when you can't provide the<BR>numbers to back up that claim.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 16:16:02 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Flexibility<BR><BR>Flexibility.&nbsp; Ease of use.&nbsp; Detailed results.&nbsp; Plug-n-play compatibility<BR>with CT, MT, and T4.&nbsp; A focus on role playing, not game mechanics.<BR><BR>That's what KB3 is all about.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Player and GM CHOICE!<BR><BR>KB3 is flexible enough to where you can use the simple system, and you<BR>can "tune" it to your game--your preferences.<BR><BR><BR><BR>If the excitement the E-Die brings to the game does not appeal to you,<BR>then TAKE IT OUT!&nbsp; The E-Die is not an integral part of the system--it<BR>just adds the spice.<BR><BR>If you prefer straight target numbers to random ones, then USE THE<BR>STRAIGHT TARGET NUMBERS!&nbsp; You can use either/both in KB3.<BR><BR><BR><BR>THE STRIPPED DOWN VERSION OF KB3....<BR>(without the E-Die, using straight target numbers)<BR><BR><BR>(1)&nbsp; Roll a number of D6 equal to your skill level plus 1D vs your<BR>target number.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (The extra die is included to give you something to roll when<BR>you've got Skill-0.&nbsp; It replaces the E-Die.)<BR><BR>(2)&nbsp; Compare your roll to your Stat normally.<BR><BR><BR>Difficulty Table<BR>- --------------------<BR>3+&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Easy<BR>7+&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Average<BR>11+&nbsp;&nbsp; Difficult<BR>15+&nbsp;&nbsp; Formidable<BR>19+&nbsp;&nbsp; Staggering<BR>23+&nbsp;&nbsp; Impossible<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 11:32:26 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Revised Summary of KB3<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden wrote :<BR>&gt; "Frank G. Pitt" wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; In general, it is still far too complicated for me to comsider using it.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; What is so complicated about rolling a number of dice equal to<BR>&gt; your skill level plus and E-Die and comparing your result to your stat?<BR><BR>When described like that, not much, other than that it is always more<BR>complicated to have to count out a different number of dice for each roll.<BR>(Especially for the ajudicator when handling multiple characters)<BR><BR>But your description above does not describe KB3, it merely describes _part_<BR>of the process.<BR><BR>It's how you decide whether or not your roll suceeded that is the<BR>complicated bit, and the usage of the E-die itself is also quite complicated<BR>for something that will be used a lot.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 16:26:43 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Optional Rule: Measuring Your Throw<BR><BR>If you are using KB3 (with/without the E-Die) with straight target<BR>numbers (instead of random ones), you may want to measure the success of<BR>your roll this way (instead of the normal KB3 comparison method).<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>If your roll is a SUCCESS....<BR><BR>...and your total is EXACTLY the number of your difficulty, OR your<BR>total is equal to or less than your Stat, then you've thrown GREATER<BR>SUCCESS.<BR><BR>...and your total is within the range of your target number plus your<BR>Stat, then you've thrown (Regular) SUCCESS.<BR><BR>...and your total is higher than your target number plus your Stat, then<BR>you've thrown MARGINAL SUCCESS.<BR><BR><BR><BR>If your roll is a FAILURE....<BR><BR>...and your total is within the range of your target number minus your<BR>Stat, then you've thrown (Regular) FAILURE.<BR><BR>...and your total is lower than your target number minus your Stat, then<BR>you've thrown GREATER FAILURE.<BR><BR><BR><BR>(Notice that only the measurement for Greater Success has been changed<BR>from standard KB3 rules.&nbsp; This has been changed to allow a character a<BR>chance of rolling Greater Success no matter how low his Stat is or how<BR>high the difficult is.&nbsp; In standard KB3, the difficulty is random, so<BR>Greater Success is possible on any throw--no matter the difficulty.<BR>Greater Success becomes a little harder to achieve if you use static<BR>target numbers, so I've provided this optional rule designed to make GS<BR>possible no matter the static number difficulty.)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 16:32:11 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>"Frank G. Pitt" wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; And so could a number of other much simpler system that do not change the<BR>&gt; game quite so much, and which are easier to analyse to show that they do in<BR>&gt; fact meet those requirments.<BR><BR>Frank,<BR><BR>Just take the E-Die out of the equation.&nbsp; Use KB3 without it, if probability<BR>prediction and ease of use are what is important in your game.<BR><BR>That should solve your "complexity" issue.<BR><BR>(1)&nbsp; Throw a number of dice equal to skill level +1 vs. a target number (I'm<BR>guessing you like the static target numbers).<BR><BR>(2)&nbsp; Compare your total to your Stat, or use the optional rule I just posted for<BR>measuring KB3 with static target numbers.<BR><BR><BR>THAT is a very, very simple system...and you'll be able to predict probability.<BR><BR>Does that satisfy you?<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 16:43:50 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Revised Summary of KB3<BR><BR>"Frank G. Pitt" wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; It's how you decide whether or not your roll suceeded that is the<BR>&gt; complicated bit, and the usage of the E-die itself is also quite complicated<BR>&gt; for something that will be used a lot.<BR><BR>Obviously you haven't played too many games with a "Fate Die" or a "Drama Die"<BR>or a "Wild Die".&nbsp; The concept of the E-Die is the same, and it is used in a<BR>number of (very good) RPGs.<BR><BR>Like I said in the previous post, though.&nbsp; If you don't like the E-Die, then<BR>don't use it in your game.&nbsp; KB3 runs fine without it.<BR><BR>It's your game.&nbsp; You've got to make yourself happy with it.<BR><BR>KB3 is flexible to allow for varying tastes.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 16:43:56 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Revised Summary of KB3<BR><BR>"Frank G. Pitt" wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; It's how you decide whether or not your roll suceeded that is the<BR>&gt; complicated bit, and the usage of the E-die itself is also quite complicated<BR>&gt; for something that will be used a lot.<BR><BR>I take it you're a 2D MT fan?<BR><BR>If so, in MT, you go through the same process of comparing your total.&nbsp; Where as<BR>in KB3 this comparison is tied to your character's Stat (reflecting that<BR>character's ability), in MT the comparison is tied to arbitrary numbers.<BR><BR>For example, MT is:<BR><BR>(1)&nbsp; Roll 2D<BR><BR>(2)&nbsp; Divide Stat by five, add in modifiers for skill and modifiers...total of<BR>roll vs. target number.<BR><BR>(3)&nbsp; Compare total to the arbitrary numbers below...<BR><BR><BR>....if your total is over is target number plus 2, you've thrown Spectacular<BR>Success.<BR><BR>....if your total is lower than target number minus 2, you've thrown Spectacular<BR>Failiure.<BR><BR>....in combat, if you throw the number exactly, you've thrown Marginal Success.<BR><BR><BR>It's the same "complicated" process (as you call it) if you are running MT.<BR><BR>I don't think either are that complicated.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 11:59:36 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Revised Summary of KB3<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden wrote :<BR>&gt; "Frank G. Pitt" wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; More importantly perhaps, it is too difficult to easily figure<BR>&gt; &gt; out what the probability of success is for any particular throw.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; A character has Skill-2, Stat-7.&nbsp; He makes an Average Throw.&nbsp; I'll use the<BR>&gt; static target number (7+) because you're concerned with figuring<BR>&gt; probability.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The guy throws 3D6 (skill level plus the E-Die).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The guy has a 91% chance of throwing 7+<BR><BR>Are you sure ?<BR>Show your working.<BR>Show that it takes into account all the possibilities of the E-die.<BR><BR>&gt; There is a 33% that a 1 or 6 will turn up on the E-Die.<BR><BR>Just some questions to try and get through to you the difficulty of properly<BR>analysing this system&nbsp; :<BR><BR>what is the probability of the other two dice being even if the E-Dice turns<BR>up a 6 ?<BR>what is the probability of the other two dice being odd if the E-Dice turns<BR>up a 6 ?<BR>what is the probability of the other two dice being even if the E-Dice turns<BR>up a 1 ?<BR>what is the probability of the other two dice being odd if the E-Dice turns<BR>up a 1 ?<BR>what is the probability of one of the other two dice being even, and one of<BR>the other dice being odd if the E-Dice turns up a 1 or a siz&nbsp; ?<BR><BR>What are all the possible totals that you can get out of the E-die roll ?<BR>How likely is each one ?<BR><BR>How do you combine all these probablities to get a _real_ measure of the<BR>probability of<BR>throwing ten plus ? or five minus ? or 0 ?<BR><BR>And what happens when the skill is one or three or four, or five ?<BR><BR>Or when the stat is less than the difficulty ?<BR><BR>The analysis above was based on only on die rolls it didn't even begin to<BR>consider the different levels of success and failure. Rather than trying to<BR>just analyse a set of dice rolls, try and determine the probability of a<BR>"good" success with Skill-2, Stat-7, and Difficulty 8, for example. Then<BR>determine the probability of failing to achieve this, or of any failure.<BR><BR>These are the important measures, not whether you can roll 7+.<BR><BR>&gt; If it is important to you to figure the effects of the E-Die as<BR>&gt; well, maybe you should go with a % based system or use a straight 2D<BR>system where the<BR>&gt; percentages are already worked out.<BR><BR>This is an analysis of a _single_ example, and already you've shown that you<BR>don't understand the point or how to evaluate probabilities for a set of<BR>mechanics.<BR><BR>You _can't_ choose a single simple, middle-of-the-road example, leave out<BR>the "E-die" or anything like that, because these are important parts of the<BR>system, and for the GM to understand how to assign difficulties and<BR>modifiers correctly, we need to understand how the probability of success<BR>changes as these variables change.<BR><BR>I'm not claiming every GM needs to understand this analysis, but the<BR>designers of the system do, so they can make accurate statements about what<BR>the GM should do when he or she wants particular effects.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 12:10:38 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Revised Summary of KB3<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden wrote :<BR>&gt; "Frank G. Pitt" wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; This implies that low skill numbers are better than high skill numbers.<BR>&gt; &gt; If you have a skill of 1, you roll one die, you are more likely<BR>&gt; &gt; to succeed (roll under your stat) than you are if you have a skill of<BR>six.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; KB3 is a "sweet spot" system.&nbsp; You've got to roll high enough to beat your<BR>&gt; target number but once you've done that, lower is better to make Greater<BR>&gt; Success.<BR><BR>Then this should be explained in the summary.<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Difficulty Table<BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; This table isn't mentioned in the previous description, how is it used ?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Did you not see in the first step that you roll versus a target<BR>&gt; number (and I put in parentheses that you can roll that target number<BR>randomly,<BR>&gt; if you like).<BR><BR>But you didn't say that the difficulty _was_ the target number in the first<BR>step.<BR>In fact there is further confusion because you actually have _two_ target<BR>numbers, difficulty and stat.<BR><BR>You need to be pedantic when writing mechanics.<BR><BR>&gt; Have you ever played an RPG before?<BR><BR>Yes. I've also written them, as well as technical manuals, and what I'm<BR>trying to do here is help you learn how to write mechanics properly.<BR><BR>You can _never_ assume that the reader will understand what you wrote, you<BR>have to be explicit and accurate, which you were not.<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; "count" all even dice ?&nbsp; Don't you mean "total" all even dice.<BR>&gt; &gt; (These terms have very different meanings)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; You know...I'm not even going to finish reading your post.<BR><BR>Your loss.<BR><BR>That is a _very_ important point. I _think_ you meant total based on<BR>previous statements you have made, but I may be wrong, because using the<BR>word count means that if I have three even dice the "count" of these dice is<BR>_three_, irrespective of the actual dots on the dice.<BR>You could have said "count the dots" but you didn't, you said "count the<BR>dice"<BR><BR>Your mechanics have to be written in such a way that people can understand<BR>it as unambiguously as possible<BR><BR><BR>&gt; If you want to talk intelligently about about KB3, I'll do that.<BR><BR>This _is_ being intelligent.<BR>Again, the point is that the text must be as complete and as unambiguous as<BR>possible.<BR><BR>&gt; But, if your input has no other value than to make comments like<BR>&gt; this--comments I "assume" you are making just to be combative<BR>&gt; (because I don't think you're thatignorant), then you are not worth my<BR>time.<BR><BR>I'm trying to help you out.<BR><BR>Kenneth, you're going to need to get a lot more thick-skinned than this if<BR>you want to get anywhere in any form of writing. My comments are nowhere<BR>near as scathing as a real editor would be if he was given that summary to<BR>edit.<BR><BR>Many of these comments are not on the system itself, but on the way it is<BR>presented, because it is not possible to understand it as presented due to<BR>lack of information and ambiguities.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3468<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, December 26 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3469<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>RE: Flexibility<BR>Re: Skills in CT<BR>Re: The Perfect 2D System (To beat the unbeatable roll, to&nbsp; dice the undiceable throw...)<BR>Re: Freelance Traveller Updated<BR>RE: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>RE: Revised Summary of KB3<BR>Re: Propabilities<BR>Using KB3 with CT<BR>Re: Revised Summary of KB3<BR>Re: Flexibility<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: Revised Summary of KB3<BR>RE: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR>Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR>KB3 Playtesters Wanted<BR>RE: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: Propabilities<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 12:18:29 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Flexibility<BR><BR>Some further comments about clarity&nbsp; :<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden wrote :<BR>&gt; THE STRIPPED DOWN VERSION OF KB3....<BR>&gt; (without the E-Die, using straight target numbers)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; (1)&nbsp; Roll a number of D6 equal to your skill level plus 1D vs your<BR>&gt; target number.<BR><BR>You need to state here, or prior to the sequence, what the target number<BR>_is_, it is not obvious to a reader.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; (The extra die is included to give you something to roll when<BR>&gt; you've got Skill-0.&nbsp; It replaces the E-Die.)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; (2)&nbsp; Compare your roll to your Stat normally.<BR><BR>What does "normally mean ?<BR>For Traveller players it means&nbsp; "is the roll greater than the target number"<BR>For Daredevils players it means "is the roll less than the target number"<BR>What it means for KB3 players needs to be explained _here_ in the task<BR>sequence<BR><BR>I am used to testing/editing technical systems, so these sorts of questions<BR>come naturally to me. If you want to try and test your system yourself, just<BR>pretend you're someone who knows _nothing_ about the system, think of all<BR>the possible ways your words _could_ be misinterpreted, and then change the<BR>text so that those misinterpretation possibilities are reduced if not<BR>elimnated.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 18:10:27 EST<BR>From: "Michael A. Hoxie" &lt;ludowick@juno.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Skills in CT<BR><BR>Steven Hudson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; To put this squarely in CT rules* terms, where do the faithful<BR>&gt;draw the line with skill levels getting silly? Assuming book 4-8<BR>&gt;chargen, do you expect to have to have a resolution _system_ to<BR>&gt;cover characters with skill levels of 4+? Or 5+? <BR><BR>Super skilled characters (ala James Bond) would automatically succeed<BR>in mundanely difficult tasks (unless you're using a natural "2" is <BR>always a failure rule).&nbsp; The Referee has to challenge such characters<BR>with *very* difficult tasks, with lots of negative DMs (put the James<BR>Bond type into the James Bond type of predicament).<BR><BR>I've never seen CT characters with &gt;5 skills in real gaming situations,<BR>though.&nbsp; I solved the problem once or twice with a player during chargen<BR>by shifting extra high skill levels from one skill to another lower<BR>skill,<BR>or a low ability stat: "Wouldn't you like to push that Dexterity-3 up a <BR>bit?"<BR><BR>Ludowick<BR><BR>________________________________________________________________<BR>GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!<BR>Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!<BR>Join Juno today!&nbsp; For your FREE software, visit:<BR>http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 18:10:27 EST<BR>From: "Michael A. Hoxie" &lt;ludowick@juno.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2D System (To beat the unbeatable roll, to&nbsp; dice the undiceable throw...)<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;And, when you divide like that, you end up with the problem I mentioned<BR>&gt;before of<BR>&gt;having "stat groups" where the result of a Stat-1 and a Stat-4 is the<BR>&gt;same...a Stat-5<BR>&gt;and a Stat-9 is the same, etc.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;If you could figure a way to use a character's full stat, making him<BR>&gt;unique based on<BR>&gt;his attributes, I think the idea has some merit.<BR><BR>Here's an idea for a system that makes full use of the stat.&nbsp; Roll for<BR>success using CT/BITS task system or MT task system (though MT users<BR>might want to eliminate stat bonus -- with some adjustment to the <BR>required roll numbers, and the MT system for determining exceptional <BR>success/failure is discarded).<BR><BR>After determining if you've failed or succeeded (nothing succeeds like<BR>a budgie without teeth), roll 2D again and compare to governing Stat.<BR><BR>If roll is &lt; = Stat, then you've achieved a greater success if you've<BR>succeeded, or an ordinary failure if you've failed.<BR><BR>If roll &gt; Stat, then you've achieved a marginal success if you've <BR>succeeded, or a greater failure if you've failed.<BR><BR>You may want to set additional requirements (second roll must be less<BR>than Stat by 2 or more, say, to get greater success; second roll must<BR>be higher than stat by 3 or more for greater failure -- something like<BR>that).<BR><BR>Since you're not afraid to roll twice to determine the success/failure,<BR>the additional die roll shouldn't be much trouble.&nbsp; Looks kinda easy.<BR>Whaddya think?<BR><BR>Ludowick<BR><BR>________________________________________________________________<BR>GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!<BR>Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!<BR>Join Juno today!&nbsp; For your FREE software, visit:<BR>http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 18:10:27 EST<BR>From: "Michael A. Hoxie" &lt;ludowick@juno.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Freelance Traveller Updated<BR><BR>Jeff Zeitlin wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Freelance Traveller, the Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller. Resource<BR>&gt;has<BR>&gt;posted its most recent update to http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller and<BR>&gt;http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/Default.htm.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Great work Jeff.&nbsp; I think Freelance Traveller is one of the best<BR>Traveller<BR>pages, with more good content than you can shake an inanimate carbon rod<BR>at.&nbsp; (I also like Traveller Downport, Tavonni Downport, Joe Heck's Miss-<BR>ouri Archive, and several others that have slipped my mind as I'm at the<BR>keyboard.&nbsp; Euge &amp; Kudos to all the above).<BR><BR>&gt;In this update:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; - Chapter nine of _The_Hostile_Stars_, Fred Ramen's ongoing serial<BR>&gt;story,<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; has been posted to Raconteur's Rest. <BR><BR>I *really* like this serial story.&nbsp; Big congrats to Fred Ramen.&nbsp; Very<BR>creative, well written, and suspensful. <BR><BR>Ludowick<BR><BR>________________________________________________________________<BR>GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!<BR>Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!<BR>Join Juno today!&nbsp; For your FREE software, visit:<BR>http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 12:29:42 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden wrote :<BR>&gt; Frank,<BR>&gt; Just take the E-Die out of the equation.&nbsp; Use KB3 without it, if<BR>&gt; probability prediction and ease of use are what is important in your game.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; That should solve your "complexity" issue.<BR><BR>Not entirely, that was one of the areas of complexity, the other is in<BR>deciding whether or not a success has occurred.<BR><BR>What you need to do is make your sequence explain that well with a decision<BR>table or sequence of if-then statements.<BR><BR>&gt; (1)&nbsp; Throw a number of dice equal to skill level +1 vs.<BR>&gt; a target number (I'm guessing you like the static target numbers).<BR><BR>Actually, it's more that I don't see the _point_ of random target numbers.<BR>To me it makes stats and skills less relevant, becaus the method of<BR>determing the target number now has more effect on the result than the stat<BR>and skill.<BR><BR>I can see how they can be used for melee combat, but then they aren't as<BR>much "random" as "generated by the ability of the opponent" which I actually<BR>quite like.<BR><BR>Was there any other reason for random target numbers ?<BR><BR>&gt; (2)&nbsp; Compare your total to your Stat, or use the optional rule I<BR>&gt; just posted for measuring KB3 with static target numbers.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; THAT is a very, very simple system...and you'll be able to<BR>&gt; predict probability.<BR><BR>True, it will be much easier to analyse like that.<BR><BR>&gt; Does that satisfy you?<BR><BR>Don't feel you have to satisfy me in terms of mechanics, I'll probably stick<BR>to a fixed number of dice myself, what you need to do is get your<BR>description unambiguous and clear so that people that want to use your<BR>system don't hve arguments about the meaning of the terms.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 12:35:24 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Revised Summary of KB3<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden wrote :<BR>&gt; "Frank G. Pitt" wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; It's how you decide whether or not your roll suceeded that is the<BR>&gt; &gt; complicated bit, and the usage of the E-die itself is also<BR>&gt; &gt; quite complicated for something that will be used a lot.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Obviously you haven't played too many games with a "Fate Die" or<BR>&gt; a "Drama Die" or a "Wild Die".<BR><BR>&lt;Grin&gt; I helped write one, and have used several.<BR><BR>&gt; The concept of the E-Die is the same, and it is used in a number of (very<BR>good) RPGs.<BR><BR>The concept is fine, it's your implementation of it that is complicated.<BR>Most such systems just add or subtract a fixed number, or get you to roll<BR>again.<BR><BR>The requirement to total the existing dice up is the complicated part.<BR>And not just all the dice, either, but only the odd or even ones well.<BR>This, while not inherently complicate as a single procedure, IMO, is too<BR>complicated for something that you're going to do a lot of times, for every<BR>reslution roll.<BR><BR>And note, this is a statement of opinon, so just treat it as such.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 00:27:04 +0100<BR>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen &lt;rancke@diku.dk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Propabilities<BR><BR>I haven't been following this discussion, so excuse me if I've missed something<BR>obvious.<BR><BR>Frank G. Pitt writes:<BR>&gt;&gt;There is a 33% that a 1 or 6 will turn up on the E-Die.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;Just some questions to try and get through to you the difficulty of properly<BR>&gt;analysing this system&nbsp; :<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;what is the probability of the other two dice being even if the E-Dice turns<BR>&gt;up a 6 ?<BR><BR>50%<BR><BR>&gt;what is the probability of the other two dice being odd if the E-Dice turns<BR>&gt;up a 6 ?<BR><BR>50%<BR><BR>&gt;what is the probability of the other two dice being even if the E-Dice turns<BR>&gt;up a 1 ?<BR><BR>50%<BR><BR>&gt;what is the probability of the other two dice being odd if the E-Dice turns<BR>&gt;up a 1 ?<BR><BR>50%<BR><BR>&gt;what is the probability of one of the other two dice being even, and one of<BR>&gt;the other dice being odd if the E-Dice turns up a 1 or a siz&nbsp; ?<BR><BR>50% (This, incidentally, is the same as the two dice being odd).<BR><BR>&gt;What are all the possible totals that you can get out of the E-die roll ?<BR>&gt;How likely is each one ?<BR><BR>If the E-die is an ordinary, pre-selected six-sided die then there are six<BR>possible totals, each equally likely.<BR><BR>&gt;How do you combine all these probablities to get a _real_ measure of the<BR>&gt;probability of throwing ten plus ? or five minus ? or 0 ?<BR><BR>You sum the number of favorable outcomes and divide by the number of possible<BR>outcomes.<BR><BR><BR>Hans<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 17:52:18 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Using KB3 with CT<BR><BR>"Frank G. Pitt" wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Then, seeing as you said you weren't going to read the rest of one of my<BR>&gt; earlier posts,<BR>&gt; please explain how KB3 works propperly with CT weapon and armour modifiers.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I would guess you could use them as modifiers on the difficulty, as that<BR>&gt; seems to be where you apply modifiers.<BR><BR>If you want to use KB3 with CT, you've got a couple of choices.&nbsp; Let's discuss a<BR>few of these choices, with examples, and hopefully you'll see now KB3 could be<BR>used.<BR><BR><BR>First off, some GMs may just want a task system to use with CT, keeping combat<BR>exactly as it is written in the CT books.<BR><BR>In this case, you would use KB3 when you needed a task system to help you govern<BR>miscellaneous tasks that pop up in the game.&nbsp; (And you wouldn't change standard<BR>CT combat rules.)<BR><BR><BR>For example, CT does not have a rule for making attribute checks.&nbsp; Say your<BR>character is on a shoddy cat-walk and the ship lurches.&nbsp; The GM needs a check<BR>based on Dex to see if your character toppled over the railing.<BR><BR>How do you do this with CT rules as written?<BR><BR>You don't do it, because CT rules don't cover things like this--and this is<BR>where KB3 comes in.&nbsp; It's a simple mechanic to govern these situations.&nbsp; You<BR>could use the KB3 attribute roll.<BR><BR><BR>Another example:&nbsp; Let's say you're playing a CT game and your character comes<BR>across some old, dusty rifles that he found while searching through a closet in<BR>a hidden Zhodani base.&nbsp; The player wants to know if he can use his character's<BR>Rifle skill to learn more about the condition of the rifles beyond the GM's<BR>description that they are "old and dusty".<BR><BR>In CT, the GM would have to come up with something on the fly.&nbsp; There are no<BR>rules in CT to cover this type of situation (becasue CT does not have a task<BR>system).<BR><BR>KB3 is a method the GM can use to make his life easier in these situations.&nbsp; The<BR>GM decides that it is an Average difficulty for a person who knows something<BR>about weapons to evalute their condition.&nbsp; And, given this, the player needs to<BR>roll a KB3 task roll, using the character's Rifle skill, based on Edu.<BR><BR>Waalaa.&nbsp; You've got a consistent, easy to use, easy to implement mechanic you<BR>can drop into CT when you need it.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Now...<BR><BR>If you want to change CT combat to a task based system, you can certainly do<BR>that with KB3.&nbsp; There are a number of ways you can do this, and this example is<BR>only one.&nbsp; The change is not that hard to implement.<BR><BR>I'll focus my example on using CT and KB3 rules only.<BR><BR>(You can steal other ideas from other Traveller games if you like.&nbsp; I run a KB3<BR>game, using mostly CT rules, but I use the T4 armor/combat system--mix and<BR>matching these various rules.&nbsp; Do what floats your boat!)<BR><BR><BR>If you want to use KB3 with strict CT rules, here's how I'd do it.<BR><BR>When you attack, you'll have to throw out the generic 8+ throw and replace it<BR>with a KB3 task.&nbsp; I'd use CT ranges as written in the CT books.<BR><BR>Therefore, to attack someone using KB3 in a CT game, I'd use this table:<BR><BR>Range&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Difficulty<BR>- ---------------------&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ----------<BR>0-1m&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Close&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Easy<BR>1-5m&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Short&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Average<BR>6-50m&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Medium&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Difficult<BR>51-250m&nbsp; &nbsp; Long&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Formidable<BR>251-500m&nbsp; V. Long&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Staggering<BR><BR><BR>And, that's about the only change you'd have to make if you wanted to<BR>incorporate KB3 with CT combat.&nbsp; All other CT combat modifiers would remain the<BR>same, and you can go...<BR><BR>...with or without the E-Die...<BR><BR>...with static numbers or random target numbers...<BR><BR>It's your choice on these two options.&nbsp; Suite yourself.&nbsp; KB3 is flexible.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Here's an example of using KB3 with CT combat:<BR><BR>Fred has Dex-7, Rifle-2.&nbsp; He's shooting at a target that is 4 meters away, the<BR>target is wearing Cloth armor, and Fred is using his rifle.<BR><BR>4 meters puts the target at Short range.&nbsp; Fred will have to make an Average<BR>throw.&nbsp; The GM calls for static target numbers (but random difficulty numbers<BR>could be used to spice things up), and the E-Die is not used (but could be to<BR>add in some more excitement).<BR><BR>Fred throws 3D.<BR><BR>He's trying to beat a target number of 7+, but this target number is modified<BR>with standard CT modifiers.<BR><BR>(Fred gets no bonus or disadvantage for his Dex.&nbsp; He subtracts 1 from his<BR>difficulty because of the CT short range bonus for rifles.&nbsp; And 3 points are<BR>added to the difficulty because of the target's cloth armor.)<BR><BR>Fred throws 3D vs a target number of 9+.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Like I said, this is only one way to use KB3 with CT combat.&nbsp; You can fit in KB3<BR>anyway you like:&nbsp; You may not want to use the CT range mods because you've<BR>already accounted for range with the KB3 difficulty.&nbsp; Or, you may want to start<BR>using armor values as used in MT and T4, and if this is the case, you'd want to<BR>get rid of the CT armor mods to the dice throw.<BR><BR>KB3 is flexible.&nbsp; You can meld it to your own playing style.<BR><BR><BR><BR>An interesting side note:&nbsp; CT is notorious for having "hard" dice throws.&nbsp; If<BR>you use CT straight (as written) that shot I just outlined above only has a 17%<BR>chance of success!&nbsp; (Throw 8+ with 2D-2.)&nbsp; Later editions of Traveller "fix"<BR>this (although you may not think it broken to begin with--I can see both sides<BR>of that debate).<BR><BR>So, another benefit of using KB3 in your CT game is that it will bring CT "more<BR>in-line" with tasks used in later Traveller editions.<BR><BR>Check out this probability comparison chart.&nbsp; You'll see that this same shot<BR>described above is very hard in CT, but not so hard in MT and T4.&nbsp; KB3 will<BR>"update" CT to reflect probabilities in MT and T4.<BR><BR>Probability comparisons:<BR>(the same shot from the example is used for comparision)<BR><BR>CT:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Throw 8+ with 2D-2....17%<BR>MT:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Throw 7+ with 2D+3....92%<BR>T4:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Throw 9- with 2D....83%<BR>KB3 with CT combat:&nbsp; Throw 9+ with 3D...74%<BR><BR><BR>If you like the harder throws associated with CT, then I would suggest you keep<BR>CT combat as written, using KB3 only for other types of task rolls (as I<BR>described to you in the very first example at the top of this page).<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 18:00:20 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Revised Summary of KB3<BR><BR>"Frank G. Pitt" wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Just some questions to try and get through to you the difficulty of properly<BR>&gt; analysing this system&nbsp; :<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; What are all the possible totals that you can get out of the E-die roll ?<BR>&gt; How likely is each one ?<BR><BR>Have you ever played an RPG with a Wild Die in it?&nbsp; Star Wars?&nbsp; Dune?&nbsp; One of<BR>the several Star Trek games?&nbsp; Several others?<BR><BR>It doesn't look like this E-Die thing sits well with you.&nbsp;&nbsp; I like the<BR>unpredictability the E-Die adds to the game--that's the point of it (as it is in<BR>these other games).<BR><BR>You seem to be a guy who likes to be able to predict the percentage of every<BR>roll--and that's fine!&nbsp; That's your taste!&nbsp; You should make your game the way<BR>you like!<BR><BR>I don't think anything I could say, no matter how correct or brilliant, will<BR>sway you to KB3.&nbsp; And that's OK!&nbsp; Play your game the way you want to.<BR><BR>For anybody else who is interested in using KB3 but wants to use the system in a<BR>more predictable fashion, I'd recommend you not use the E-Die.&nbsp; Simply use KB3<BR>without it.&nbsp; You don't need it for any other reason except that it spices up the<BR>game--makes it is more interesting--adds more "chance" and "fate" to what a<BR>character does.<BR><BR>KB3 is fine played without it.<BR><BR>Like I said in the other post, use KB3 without the E-Die and with static target<BR>numbers if you like.<BR><BR>Just enjoy your game!<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 18:11:24 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Flexibility<BR><BR>"Frank G. Pitt" wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; You need to state here, or prior to the sequence, what the target number<BR>&gt; _is_, it is not obvious to a reader.<BR><BR>Look, Frankie.&nbsp; I wrote those posts to be viewed by people here on the TML who<BR>don't need everything spelled out for them in layman's terms.&nbsp; Most of these<BR>guys here have been role playing for half of their lives and they know exactly<BR>what was said in those posts.<BR><BR>If I was going to publish the stuff, you doggone right I'd write it differently.<BR><BR>The ideal is brevity on the TML, because if you don't write that way, people<BR>won't read what you have to say.<BR><BR>It sounds a little arrogant of me to say, but I'll tell you that I am an<BR>excellent writer.&nbsp; I even have a couple of short stoires published.&nbsp; I graduated<BR>with honors from school, and I am finishing a screenplay that, in its current<BR>unfinished form, has helped me raise six figures for an independent film.<BR><BR>I know how to write.<BR><BR>And, I'm done talking with you about this.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 18:14:08 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>"Frank G. Pitt" wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Kenneth Bearden wrote :<BR>&gt; &gt; Frank,<BR>&gt; &gt; Just take the E-Die out of the equation.&nbsp; Use KB3 without it, if<BR>&gt; &gt; probability prediction and ease of use are what is important in your game.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; That should solve your "complexity" issue.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Not entirely, that was one of the areas of complexity, the other is in<BR>&gt; deciding whether or not a success has occurred.<BR><BR>Out of curiosity, which Traveller system do you use?<BR><BR>I'm interested in the system you think is not complex....CT?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 18:15:34 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Revised Summary of KB3<BR><BR>"Frank G. Pitt" wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Obviously you haven't played too many games with a "Fate Die" or<BR>&gt; &gt; a "Drama Die" or a "Wild Die".<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &lt;Grin&gt; I helped write one, and have used several.<BR><BR>OK, I'll bite.&nbsp; Which game did you help write?<BR><BR>I'd like to look at the mechanics.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 16:11:46 -0800<BR>From: "David P. Summers" &lt;summers@alum.mit.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Naming laws (was: Ground Forces)<BR><BR>At 10:43 AM -0500 12/20/00, Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>&gt;Dean wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;While it's true that medical care is quite excellent in the US, whats the<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;situation with providing care for people without medical insurance?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; They have to cough up the dough, it's as simple as that.<BR><BR>Just for the record, if you are sick enough to require hospitalization,<BR>there are hospitals that will give care without regard to the ability <BR>to pay.&nbsp; The issue is mostly relevant to the issue of preventive care <BR>and general health.<BR><BR>______________________________<BR>summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>(This is the net.&nbsp; My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 16:23:40 -0800<BR>From: "David P. Summers" &lt;summers@alum.mit.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: flickering black globes useless?<BR><BR>At 1:08 PM +1100 12/26/00, Timothy Little wrote:<BR>&gt;On Mon, Dec 25, 2000 at 04:24:47PM -0800, David P. Summers wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; At 1:37 PM +1100 12/23/00, Timothy Little wrote:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &gt;You have a disadvantage compared to a target than can apply continuous<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &gt;thrust in various directions in an unpredicatable manner.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; I'm not so sure.&nbsp; The change in direction is smaller to begin with,<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; as you go along undetectable, the difference adds up with time.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;If the globe is switched on continuously for a time on the order of<BR>&gt;minutes, yes.&nbsp; Otherwise the fact that you can't maneuver makes it<BR>&gt;very likely that your uncertainty in position due to velocity adds up<BR>&gt;to not much more than the diameter of your ship.<BR><BR>It doesn't need to add up to more than that.&nbsp; Besides, we don't<BR>really know how long you have to flicker.<BR><BR>______________________________<BR>summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>(This is the net.&nbsp; My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 18:26:54 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: KB3 Playtesters Wanted<BR><BR>I know a lot of you on this list are not involved with an actual running<BR>game, and this post is for those of you who are playing Traveller<BR>currently.<BR><BR>It occurred to me that it would be a nice thing to have another group,<BR>completely independent of mine, play test KB3 as well.<BR><BR>If you are interested in this, e-mail me privately.&nbsp; KB3 is flexible, so<BR>not everyone will be using it in the same fashion (some will use the<BR>E-Die, some won't, some will use static target numbers, some will use<BR>random).<BR><BR>KB3 works best with characters generated in the "classic" method, so<BR>people who are running CT, MT, or T4 games are going to be the best<BR>playtesters.<BR><BR>Maybe no one is interested in this...maybe someone is.<BR><BR>If someone is interested, I welcome your input.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 17:06:53 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: RE: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: RE: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>...<BR>&gt;&gt; Well, I'm not going to go to all that work when I know the system is sound<BR>&gt;&gt; statistically, but you're welcome to do whatever stat tests you<BR>&gt;&gt; like and post any problems here.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;In other words, and as I suspected, you really have no idea whether the<BR>&gt;system is statistically sound, because you haven't performed a proper<BR>&gt;analysis.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;That's not such a big deal, White Wolf never bothered either, but don't go<BR>&gt;round claiming your system is statistically sound when you can't provide the<BR>&gt;numbers to back up that claim.<BR><BR>&nbsp; BTW, that's another point in favour of single die (d20) - at least<BR>in wargames, where the effects of target size modifiers (e.g. Striker,<BR>2d6 for 12+ at Extreme range, but target is +2 size...) can really<BR>warp the heck out of your bell-curves "expected" results.<BR><BR>&nbsp; In Trav most of your targets are, well, people :&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 01:48:10 -0000<BR>From: "Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Propabilities<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Hans Rancke-Madsen" &lt;rancke@diku.dk&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 11:27 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Propabilities<BR><BR><BR>&gt; I haven't been following this discussion, so excuse me if I've missed<BR>something<BR>&gt; obvious.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Frank G. Pitt writes:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;There is a 33% that a 1 or 6 will turn up on the E-Die.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Just some questions to try and get through to you the difficulty of<BR>properly<BR>&gt; &gt;analysing this system&nbsp; :<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;what is the probability of the other two dice being even if the<BR>E-Dice turns<BR>&gt; &gt;up a 6 ?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 50%<BR><BR>25%... there are *2* other dice...<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;what is the probability of the other two dice being odd if the E-Dice<BR>turns<BR>&gt; &gt;up a 6 ?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 50%<BR><BR>25% again...<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;what is the probability of the other two dice being even if the<BR>E-Dice turns<BR>&gt; &gt;up a 1 ?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 50%<BR><BR>25%<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;what is the probability of the other two dice being odd if the E-Dice<BR>turns<BR>&gt; &gt;up a 1 ?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 50%<BR><BR>25%<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;what is the probability of one of the other two dice being even, and<BR>one of<BR>&gt; &gt;the other dice being odd if the E-Dice turns up a 1 or a siz&nbsp; ?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 50% (This, incidentally, is the same as the two dice being odd).<BR><BR>25%<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;What are all the possible totals that you can get out of the E-die<BR>roll ?<BR>&gt; &gt;How likely is each one ?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; If the E-die is an ordinary, pre-selected six-sided die then there are<BR>six<BR>&gt; possible totals, each equally likely.<BR><BR>so 16.6666% etc<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;How do you combine all these probablities to get a _real_ measure of<BR>the<BR>&gt; &gt;probability of throwing ten plus ? or five minus ? or 0 ?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; You sum the number of favorable outcomes and divide by the number of<BR>possible<BR>&gt; outcomes.<BR><BR>Correct.<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3469<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, December 26 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3470<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>RE: &lt;no subject&gt;<BR>Re: Probabilities<BR>Re: Jump emergence<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 02:07:10 -0000<BR>From: "Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Timothy Little" &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 8:10 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; But is it a star a long ways off or a nearby fusion plant? :-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Doesn't matter.&nbsp; It will be only one of thousands of neutrino sources.<BR>&gt; In other words, it will probably make a 0.0001 difference to the<BR>&gt; correlation.<BR><BR>Doesn't this render the concept of neutrino sensors redundant as per<BR>conventional traveller anyway? after all, they are canonically used to<BR>*detect* fusion power plants...<BR><BR>Actually, ISTR reading somewhere that even speculating massive increases<BR>in detection capability, any controlled artificial source of neutrinos<BR>would be swamped by background neutrino emissions from stellar<BR>sources...<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 17:48:50 -0800<BR>From: Jesse DeGraff &lt;jdegraff@pacbell.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: &lt;no subject&gt;<BR><BR>Definately, though a little small ;)<BR><BR>Photoshop is such a wunnerful toy &lt;WEG&gt;<BR>Jesse<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Tod Glenn<BR>&gt; Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 10:14 AM<BR>&gt; To: TML<BR>&gt; Subject: &lt;no subject&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Jesse et all,<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Does this qualify for the Famille Spofulam catalogue?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; See http://weapons.travellercentral.com/heavy/minigun_marder.html<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; (I love photoshop)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Hey, I'm even starting to add stats?!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Tod<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt; When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend"<BR>&gt; -- <BR>&gt; Tod L Glenn<BR>&gt; webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>&gt; http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>&gt; http://www.solsec.org<BR>&gt; http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>&gt; http://travellerguns.com<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 03:22:11 +0100<BR>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen &lt;rancke@diku.dk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Probabilities<BR><BR>Matthew Bond writes:<BR>&gt;From: "Hans Rancke-Madsen" &lt;rancke@diku.dk&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Frank G. Pitt writes:<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;what is the probability of the other two dice being even if the<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;E-Dice turns up a 6 ?<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;50%<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;25%... there are *2* other dice...<BR><BR>If the question is "that BOTH other dice are even" you're right. If the question<BR>is "that the sum of the two other dice are even" then the probability is 50%.<BR>The same applies to the other questions.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;what is the probability of one of the other two dice being even, and<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;one of the other dice being odd if the E-Dice turns up a 1 or a siz&nbsp; ?<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;50% (This, incidentally, is the same as the two dice being odd).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;25%<BR><BR>Nope. There are four possible ways the two dice can fall. They can both be even<BR>or they can both be odd. Or one (specific) of them can be even and the other<BR>odd. Or one (specific) of them can be odd and the other even. Two chances out of<BR>four is 50%.<BR><BR><BR>Hans<BR><BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 23:20:20 -0500<BR>From: Thom Jones-Low &lt;tjoneslo@together.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 23:24:48 PST<BR>&gt; From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; It would be good to know if the 100D limit is mean to be an<BR>&gt; &gt; approximation as I'm curious if a ship actually has to get with 100D<BR>&gt; &gt; of a black hole to precipitate out...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Mark hasn't said one way or the other. But given that the "standard<BR>&gt; planets" in Traveller (ie what you get if you use the basic system<BR>&gt; generation stuff from CT, MT, etc) all have the *same* density, it's<BR>&gt; easy to show that any effect that varies as the *cube root* of the mass<BR>&gt; will be at the same strengh at a given number of diameters from them.<BR>&gt; <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; From what I have been told, Marc has explicitly stated that the 100D<BR>limit is a fixed limit for all objects (stars, planets, starships,<BR>etc.). <BR><BR>&gt; It turns out that tidal forces (basicly, the *rate* at which the<BR>&gt; attraction due to gravity varies with distance) vary as the cube root<BR>&gt; of the distance.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Since tidal forces can also be thought of as how sharply spacetime is<BR>&gt; curved at a given point, this actually makes a strange sort of sense.<BR>&gt; It's likely easier to "warp" space to enter jump if you don't have to<BR>&gt; fight the existing curvature much.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; So, for our purposes, this means you can use an equation like this:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; T = G * M / r^3<BR>&gt; <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; This formula is not quite correct. It is a good approximation. A more<BR>exact one is: <BR><BR>T = (-2 * G * M * m / r^3) (h)<BR><BR>&gt; T = "tidal force"<BR>&gt; G = 6.673e-11 N m^2/kg^2 (7e-11) -- Newton's Gravitational Constant "G"<BR>&gt; M = mass of object (in kilograms)<BR>&gt; r = distance from *center* of object (in meters)<BR>&gt; <BR>&nbsp; m = mass of object (in kilograms)<BR>&nbsp; h = separation distance (in meters)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; m is the mass of the second object in the system, the point where you<BR>are measuring from. h is distance between two points where you are<BR>measuring the difference in the gravity forces. If M is the mass of the<BR>earth (or other planet), m is the mass of the starship, and h is the<BR>length of the starship. For most calculations both m and h are small<BR>enough to be ignored. However, if you want to calculate the jump<BR>distance for a pair of starships, the other factors become more<BR>relevant. <BR><BR>&gt; For Earth, G*M = 3.986e14 m^3/s^2 (It's easier to measure G * M than to<BR>&gt; measure either seperately)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; So, call it 4e14.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Earth's radius is 6371 km. Call that 6,400,000 meters.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The distances were are interested in are:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; 1/2 diam (surface, jump is fatal)&nbsp;&nbsp; = 6.4e6<BR>&gt; 10 diam&nbsp; (jump possible, but risky) = 1.28e8<BR>&gt; 100 diam (normal jump)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; = 1.28e9<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; So:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; T = 4e14 / (6.4e6)^3&nbsp; = ~1.5e-6<BR>&gt; T = 4e14 / (1.28e8)^3 = ~1.9e-10<BR>&gt; T = 4e14 / (1.28e9)^3 = ~1.9e-13<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; So, call the values:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; destroyed = more than 2e-6<BR>&gt; dangerous = more than 2e-10<BR>&gt; risky&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; = more than 2e-13<BR>&gt; <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I calculated a value of 5e-13 for the risky value, 5e-10 for dangerous<BR>and 5e-6 for destroyed. <BR><BR>&gt; BTW, you'll note that this moves the safe limit much closer to low<BR>&gt; density bodies like gas giants and stars. On the other hand, high<BR>&gt; density bodies such nickel iron asteroids.... &lt;eg&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; For Gas Giants, the safe limit is between 60 and 80 diameters. For<BR>planets between 80 and 105 diameters. For most stars, the distance is<BR>under 1 AU.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Anyone who would like to read more about how tidal forces are derived<BR>and their relation to relativity can read here:<BR><BR>http://www.math.washington.edu/~hillman/PUB/tidal<BR><BR><BR>&gt; - --<BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>&gt; leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ------------------------------<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 23:56:07 PST<BR>&gt; From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Reft sector X-boat link<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; And, if you do the math, they'll only hit the target thru sheer *luck*.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; I did the math.&nbsp; The distance you want varies with speed of course,<BR>&gt; &gt; and speed varies with the rules for thrusters in YTU, but you can<BR>&gt; &gt; correct for jump error before you hit without much difficulty.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; The slower you go, the more chance you have of being intercepted, of<BR>&gt; &gt; course.&nbsp; Given the rules for space combat, they probably won't be able<BR>&gt; &gt; to do much even at only 50 000 km/s.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Trajectory, not vector. Gravity *will* affect your course.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Sorry, I keep slipping into GR-think, where gravity doesn't affect<BR>&gt; &gt; vectors.&nbsp; Trajectory is probably more accurate anyway since they'll<BR>&gt; &gt; want you to do some sideways corrections no doubt.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; And they'll want to keep you away from other ships, and from various<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; orbital installations.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Yes.&nbsp; Again, true no matter what speed you exit jump with.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Going to closer to the fission fuel processing facility could be<BR>&gt; unhealthy. After all, you only need to shield the direction the ships<BR>&gt; are *supposed* to approach from... :-)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; - --<BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>&gt; leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ------------------------------<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 00:09:24 +1300<BR>&gt; From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Noble vs. military rank<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; On 21 Dec 00, at 20:56, Thom Harris wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; A funny story concerning how much pull a CWO has follows. My last year in the<BR>&gt; &gt; Army I worked for a Captain. We had been given a special project and they had<BR>&gt; &gt; appointed a Major to head up the working group. He started giving us some crap<BR>&gt; &gt; day one. After a couple of days, my young Captain went to our Lieutenant<BR>&gt; &gt; Colonel and complained that this Major was making more waves than helping. The<BR>&gt; &gt; LTC looked at him and said "well if he gets too much out of line, your Chief<BR>&gt; &gt; will straighten his ass out." Needless to say, my young Captain came back to<BR>&gt; &gt; my desk and discussed it with me, I had a talk with the Major and he left us<BR>&gt; &gt; alone forever after. My Captain became a whole lot more humble after that.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In my experience (2Lt PWO 10/11 Hus), the most useful command that<BR>&gt; can ever be given by a junior officer is "Carry on Sergant"<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ------------------------------<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 22:32:58 +1100<BR>&gt; From: Robert Houghton &lt;rhoughto@one.net.au&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Semi-OT: New Honor Harrington story<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; WHRER IS IT?<BR>&gt; arrgh...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Other rob<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; I just discovered that the "sample "chapter" for "Changer of Worlds"<BR>&gt; &gt; (due out in March) is a *complete* (331k!) story.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; It's the story of Honor's middie cruise. Among other things. :-)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; It took me a couple hours to read. And I'm tempted to go back and<BR>&gt; &gt; re-read it...<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; --<BR>&gt; &gt; Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>&gt; &gt; leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ------------------------------<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 12:00:14 -0000<BR>&gt; From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Low standards<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; What about the hivers? If Its the HKAT Traveller Movie we<BR>&gt; &gt; gotta have some<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Kung-fu Hivers in there somewhere....<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; No, Hivers are much better at playing the "engimatic wiseman" type.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; --<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; As in the 'mysterious JTAS editor' ?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dean<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ------------------------------<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 12:03:25 -0000<BR>&gt; From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; &gt; From: shadow@krypton.rain.com [mailto:shadow@krypton.rain.com]<BR>&gt; &gt; Sent: 22 December 2000 06:17<BR>&gt; &gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: American Culture and the Serious Business of Despising<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Now, personally, I've been complaining about the<BR>&gt; &gt; opportuntities we're<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; missing since the early 70's. We've frittered away so much time, so<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; many resources...,&lt;sigh&gt;...the world could be running on solar power<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; by now, we could have colonies in orbit and on the Moon, outposts on<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Mars, and be well on our way to the stars. You know, if we keep<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; frittering away time we may stay mundanes forever.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; The blame *starts* with Nixon. He's the one who started<BR>&gt; &gt; dismantling the<BR>&gt; &gt; Apollo program.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; But there's plenty to go around.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; A few other "lowlights" of the space program:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &lt;snip bad calls on the part of NASA&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Just consider where we'd be now if these hadn't happened...<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Let's email Ken Hite and ask him to consider them!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dean<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ------------------------------<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 07:47:37 -0500<BR>&gt; From: "Daniel Phelps" &lt;phelpsd@gate.net&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Who Won, Who Lost<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Was written:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;Also, the fact that we had to pay the USSR for the war (what is the right<BR>&gt; &gt;term? I don't know.)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; War reparations<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;There are still some people who would like Karelia back. Most people<BR>&gt; &gt;realise that there is nothing of value there, it would be very expensive<BR>&gt; &gt;to rebuild it after what the Soviets and Russians have done to it.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Just as the Japanese would like their northern islands back.&nbsp; As witness<BR>&gt; Palestine/Israel, the value of such lost lands is separate from its "price"<BR>&gt; as a piece of real estate but in the land's "worth" to the people involved.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dan<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ------------------------------<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 08:08:04 -0500<BR>&gt; From: "Paul Drye" &lt;p_drye@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: re: Alienage (was: Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;"Je dit, nous nukons le site de l'orbite.&nbsp; C'est la seule facon d'etre<BR>&gt; &gt;sure."<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "Nukons?" If you listen carefully, you can hear Moliere spinning in his<BR>&gt; grave.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Cheers,<BR>&gt; Paul "Je nukes, tu nukes, il nukes, elle nukes, nous nukons, vous nukez, ils<BR>&gt; Nukent, elles nukent" Drye<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; _________________________________________________________________________<BR>&gt; Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ------------------------------<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 07:19:26 -0600<BR>&gt; From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: [Fwd: Heaven and Earth Question]<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; This is a multi-part message in MIME format.<BR>&gt; - --------------8A6B5012D57286CB967D598B<BR>&gt; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<BR>&gt; Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; This is the response Stuart Ferris sent me when I asked how to print<BR>&gt; world maps.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; - --<BR>&gt; AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>&gt; "Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>&gt; Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>&gt; - --------------8A6B5012D57286CB967D598B<BR>&gt; Content-Type: message/rfc822<BR>&gt; Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit<BR>&gt; Content-Disposition: inline<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Received: from mta2-svc.virgin.net (mta2-svc.virgin.net [194.168.54.143])<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; by premier1.premier.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10850<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; for &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;; Sat, 19 Aug 2000 17:23:50 -0500 (CDT)<BR>&gt; Received: from maincomputer ([62.252.140.47]) by mta2-svc.virgin.net<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; id &lt;20000819215724.KOUZ8119.mta2-svc.virgin.net@maincomputer&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; for &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;; Sat, 19 Aug 2000 22:57:24 +0100<BR>&gt; Message-ID: &lt;000201c00a28$6ede35c0$2f8cfc3e@maincomputer&gt;<BR>&gt; From: "Stuart Ferris" &lt;stuart.ferris@virgin.net&gt;<BR>&gt; To: "John Groth" &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>&gt; References: &lt;399EF2F1.BFA242B4@premier.net&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Heaven and Earth Question<BR>&gt; Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 22:47:45 +0100<BR>&gt; MIME-Version: 1.0<BR>&gt; Content-Type: text/plain;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>&gt; Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit<BR>&gt; X-Priority: 3<BR>&gt; X-MSMail-Priority: Normal<BR>&gt; X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400<BR>&gt; X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400<BR>&gt; X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;How do I print a world map generated by H&amp;E?&nbsp; Barring that, how do I<BR>&gt; &gt;save the world map image?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; This is where the program is perhaps a little too intuitive.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Once a world/system is generated simply bring the world map up on the<BR>&gt; display and select 'Print Details' to print out the map.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; As far as saving maps are concerned, they are automatically saved into the<BR>&gt; appropriate world/system folder when 'Save details' is selected/<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Stuart Ferris<BR>&gt; stuart.ferris@virgin.net<BR>&gt; http://freespace.virgin.net/stuart.ferris/index.htm<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; - --------------8A6B5012D57286CB967D598B--<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ------------------------------<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 08:18:44 -0500<BR>&gt; From: "Paul Drye" &lt;p_drye@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Semi-OT: New Honor Harrington story<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;I just discovered that the "sample "chapter" for "Changer of Worlds"<BR>&gt; &gt;(due out in March) is a *complete* (331k!) story.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; URL, Leonard?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Cheers,<BR>&gt; Paul Drye<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; _________________________________________________________________________<BR>&gt; Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ------------------------------<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 13:26:35 -0000<BR>&gt; From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Alienage (was: Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; &gt; From: Paul Drye [mailto:p_drye@hotmail.com]<BR>&gt; &gt; Sent: 22 December 2000 13:08<BR>&gt; &gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; &gt; Subject: re: Alienage (was: Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;"Je dit, nous nukons le site de l'orbite.&nbsp; C'est la seule<BR>&gt; &gt; facon d'etre<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;sure."<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; "Nukons?" If you listen carefully, you can hear Moliere<BR>&gt; &gt; spinning in his<BR>&gt; &gt; grave.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Is 'Nuke' an official verb in English?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dean<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ------------------------------<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 07:40:09 -0600<BR>&gt; From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Alienage (was: Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "Jones, Dean" wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; From: Paul Drye [mailto:p_drye@hotmail.com]<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: 22 December 2000 13:08<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: re: Alienage (was: Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;"Je dit, nous nukons le site de l'orbite.&nbsp; C'est la seule<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; facon d'etre<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;sure."<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; "Nukons?" If you listen carefully, you can hear Moliere<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; spinning in his<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; grave.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Is 'Nuke' an official verb in English?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;From www.yourdictionary.com:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Main Entry (1):&nbsp; nuke<BR>&gt; Pronunciation: 'nk, 'nyk<BR>&gt; Function: noun<BR>&gt; Etymology: by shortening &amp; alteration from nuclear<BR>&gt; Date: 1959<BR>&gt; 1 : a nuclear weapon<BR>&gt; 2 : a nuclear-powered electric generating station<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Main Entry (2):&nbsp; nuke<BR>&gt; Function: transitive verb<BR>&gt; Date: 1967<BR>&gt; Inflected Form(s): nuked; nuk.ing<BR>&gt; 1 : to attack or destroy with or as if with nuclear bombs<BR>&gt; 2 : MICROWAVE<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; (This site refers to the Merriam-Webster Collegiate Dictionary)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; http://www.yourdictionary.com/<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; - --<BR>&gt; AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>&gt; "Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>&gt; Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ------------------------------<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 08:38:44 -0500<BR>&gt; From: "Paul Drye" &lt;p_drye@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Alienage (was: Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;Is 'Nuke' an official verb in English?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; For it to be official, we'd need some actual officials in charge of the<BR>&gt; matter first...and as has been pointed out repeatedly recently, the<BR>&gt; US/Canada/Australia isn't France....<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Cheers,<BR>&gt; Paul Drye<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; _________________________________________________________________________<BR>&gt; Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ------------------------------<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 13:47:51 -0000<BR>&gt; From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Alienage (was: Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &lt;\cultural imperialism&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Perhaps we had better email the Queen. As all civilised countries know, only<BR>&gt; the Queen's English counts as the correct way in which one should speak.<BR>&gt; Buckingham Palace should be able to settle the matter in a satisfactory<BR>&gt; manner.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &lt;/cultural imperialism&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Please note that your average brit only gets all royalist when discussing<BR>&gt; matters of nationality and culture. Most of us don't give two hoots either<BR>&gt; way :) . As always, YMMV.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dean<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; &gt; From: Paul Drye [mailto:p_drye@hotmail.com]<BR>&gt; &gt; Sent: 22 December 2000 13:39<BR>&gt; &gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; &gt; Subject: RE: Alienage (was: Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;Is 'Nuke' an official verb in English?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; For it to be official, we'd need some actual officials in<BR>&gt; &gt; charge of the<BR>&gt; &gt; matter first...and as has been pointed out repeatedly recently, the<BR>&gt; &gt; US/Canada/Australia isn't France....<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Cheers,<BR>&gt; &gt; Paul Drye<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; ______________________________________________________________<BR>&gt; &gt; ___________<BR>&gt; &gt; Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at<BR>&gt; http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ------------------------------<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:11:33 -0800<BR>&gt; From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>&gt; Subject: re: Who Won, Who Lost<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Subject: re: Who Won, Who Lost<BR>&gt; ...<BR>&gt; &gt;Actually, we call it here a defensive victory. B-)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Fair enough, given some of the alternatives... i.e., possible direct<BR>&gt; (re)-integration into the Russian Empire :(<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;Also, the fact that we had to pay the USSR for the war (what is the right<BR>&gt; &gt;term? I don't know.) had the effect of boosting our economy and industry.<BR>&gt; &gt;Without them we wouldn't be as developed as we are.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; "reparations" - a concpet that's largely gone out the windows these<BR>&gt; days, but then, wars of conquest are also pretty much against the<BR>&gt; rules, too - the Japanese lost their last good chance :&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Steven Hudson<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ------------------------------<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:13:33 -0800<BR>&gt; From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: true words<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;From: Tod Glenn &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Subject: Re: true words<BR>&gt; ...<BR>&gt; &gt;Strangely, US political boundries often have nothing to do with culture,<BR>&gt; &gt;attitude, etc.&nbsp; Many think that the Oregon/Washington should have been an<BR>&gt; &gt;east-west split along the cascades (wet/dry siders).<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;ObTrav.&nbsp; None, sorry.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; ?? Doesn't 3I astrographic practice pretty much guarantee some<BR>&gt; very strange administrative boundaries?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ------------------------------<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 03:32:07 +1300<BR>&gt; From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: re: Who Won, Who Lost<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; On 22 Dec 00, at 6:11, Steven Hudson wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;Subject: re: Who Won, Who Lost<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;Actually, we call it here a defensive victory. B-)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Fair enough, given some of the alternatives... i.e., possible direct<BR>&gt; &gt; (re)-integration into the Russian Empire :(<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Russo-Finnish Wars were an odd beast. The demands that sparked it all<BR>&gt; off were, on the face of it, quite reasonable (minor territorial adjustments to<BR>&gt; strengthen the defences of Lenningrad in return for concessions elsewhere<BR>&gt; on the border). Certainly better than the "deal" the soviets handed out the<BR>&gt; the other Baltic states; and both sides were negotiating for awhile. It<BR>&gt; probably was just another Stalin landgrab for Finland, but it was an<BR>&gt; unusually subtle one. Plus even in 44 when the war ended, the Russians<BR>&gt; didn't seem to want to undermine the Finnish government and replace it<BR>&gt; with a satelite like they did with the rest of Eastern Europe.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; One is left with the feeling that the Soviets didn't think it worth the effort it<BR>&gt; would have required to absorb Finland.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ------------------------------<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 09:28:00 -0500<BR>&gt; From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Nostalgia Week Continues (long, but _worth_ it!)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 21:28:02 -0600<BR>&gt; &gt;From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Subject: Nostalgia Week Continues (long, but _worth_ it!)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Over the past couple of days, I've reposted material from the TML's<BR>&gt; &gt;illustrious (recent) past.&nbsp; I have mentioned (and reposted) discussions<BR>&gt; &gt;ranging from Hiver Kung-Fu Theater to the Son of Santanocheev.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&lt;hiver handwave&gt; Trivial, compared to what I'm about to repost. &lt;/hiver<BR>&gt; &gt;handwave&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;In December of 1998, a few months after I joined the TML, a post<BR>&gt; &gt;appeared that, IMHO, sums up the glory that the TML has known.&nbsp; Sadly,<BR>&gt; &gt;my archive of this post rests on a computer that is no longer<BR>&gt; &gt;functioning.&nbsp; I mentioned this thread a short time ago.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Fortunately, the TML is a truly global, truly sharing organization.&nbsp; One<BR>&gt; &gt;of our members heard my plea, and forwarded the original Ravioli Rail<BR>&gt; &gt;Gun post which I repost here tonight.&nbsp; My thanks to this individual (I<BR>&gt; &gt;refrain from mentioning this person's name for possible privacy<BR>&gt; &gt;reasons).&nbsp; You know who you are; feel free to let the TML know that it<BR>&gt; &gt;is by your grace that our newer members can now view this epochal post.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;May we all learn and profit from this example.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;**begin repost [original post: 30 Dec 1998]**<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;- ------------------------------<BR>&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; LOL! Thank you for sharing this!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Verily, near-C-rats (Ravioli, Tomato, Precooked) are something to fear.... =)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Cheers<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ------------------------------<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 09:40:45 -0500<BR>&gt; From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Low standards<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 00:18:21 -0800<BR>&gt; &gt;From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Subject: Re: Low standards<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;Where would Michelle Yeoh fit in the Traveller HK Action Opera? =)<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;(And yes, while most people would recognize her only from that Bond film, I<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;have fond remembrances of her in both Heroic Trio films and... ooooh, what<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;was that one, she played a woman in a smal town but dressed as a boy.....<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;Wing Fong?&nbsp; I'd better not try to guess the name, I'll mangle it horribly.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;I saw her on Letterman or somewhere around the time of the Bond film, and<BR>&gt; &gt;she said that her first reaction on being asked if she were interested in<BR>&gt; &gt;doing a Bond film was, "Wow! a female James Bond! I'd love to do it!"&nbsp; and<BR>&gt; &gt;then her agent brought her down to earth.&nbsp; I want to see a James Bond film<BR>&gt; &gt;series where Sean Connery plays the aging James Bond, long since promoted to<BR>&gt; &gt;head of MI6, and Michelle Yeoh plays the brash young 007.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Ob Traveller ... um ... er ... what was your question again?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;- --Glenn<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;------------------------------<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Oh, now THAT would be something to see!&nbsp; I think I'd actually go and see it<BR>&gt; at an evening showing (i.e. full price rather than matinee.) =)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ------------------------------<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3452<BR>&gt; ***********************************<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>&gt; If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>&gt; coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>&gt; address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>&gt; "local-traveller":<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>&gt; subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>&gt; in the commands above with "traveller".<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thomas Jones-Low<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; tjoneslo@together.net<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3470<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yh02.mx.aol.com (rly-yh02.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.34]) by air-yh01.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Tue, 26 Dec 2000 23:27:04 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yh02.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Tue, 26 Dec 2000 23:26:34 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id XAA90622;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Tue, 26 Dec 2000 23:14:01 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Tue, 26 Dec 2000 23:13:51 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id XAA90584<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Tue, 26 Dec 2000 23:13:51 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 23:13:51 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012270413.XAA90584@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3470<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3471</B></TD></TR>
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<TD vAlign=top width="10%">Date: </TD>
<TD>12/27/00 3:15:30 AM Pacific Standard Time</TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Wednesday, December 27 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3471<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Jump emergence<BR>Re: Skills in CT<BR>Apology (Was: Re:Jump emergence)<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3464<BR>Re: The Perfect 2D System (To beat the unbeatable roll, to...<BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>Re: Revised Summary of KB3<BR>Re: Skills in CT<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3464<BR>Re: Revised Summary of KB3<BR>Re: Revised Summary of KB3<BR>Re : Health Care in the US (was : Re : Naming Laws)<BR>RE: Revised Summary of KB3<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 23:20:43 -0500<BR>From: Thom Jones-Low &lt;tjoneslo@together.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 23:24:48 PST<BR>&gt; From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; It would be good to know if the 100D limit is mean to be an<BR>&gt; &gt; approximation as I'm curious if a ship actually has to get with 100D<BR>&gt; &gt; of a black hole to precipitate out...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Mark hasn't said one way or the other. But given that the "standard<BR>&gt; planets" in Traveller (ie what you get if you use the basic system<BR>&gt; generation stuff from CT, MT, etc) all have the *same* density, it's<BR>&gt; easy to show that any effect that varies as the *cube root* of the mass<BR>&gt; will be at the same strengh at a given number of diameters from them.<BR>&gt; <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; From what I have been told, Marc has explicitly stated that the 100D<BR>limit is a fixed limit for all objects (stars, planets, starships,<BR>etc.). <BR><BR>&gt; It turns out that tidal forces (basicly, the *rate* at which the<BR>&gt; attraction due to gravity varies with distance) vary as the cube root<BR>&gt; of the distance.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Since tidal forces can also be thought of as how sharply spacetime is<BR>&gt; curved at a given point, this actually makes a strange sort of sense.<BR>&gt; It's likely easier to "warp" space to enter jump if you don't have to<BR>&gt; fight the existing curvature much.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; So, for our purposes, this means you can use an equation like this:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; T = G * M / r^3<BR>&gt; <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; This formula is not quite correct. It is a good approximation. A more<BR>exact one is: <BR><BR>T = (-2 * G * M * m / r^3) (h)<BR><BR>&gt; T = "tidal force"<BR>&gt; G = 6.673e-11 N m^2/kg^2 (7e-11) -- Newton's Gravitational Constant "G"<BR>&gt; M = mass of object (in kilograms)<BR>&gt; r = distance from *center* of object (in meters)<BR>&gt; <BR>&nbsp; m = mass of object (in kilograms)<BR>&nbsp; h = separation distance (in meters)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; m is the mass of the second object in the system, the point where you<BR>are measuring from. h is distance between two points where you are<BR>measuring the difference in the gravity forces. If M is the mass of the<BR>earth (or other planet), m is the mass of the starship, and h is the<BR>length of the starship. For most calculations both m and h are small<BR>enough to be ignored. However, if you want to calculate the jump<BR>distance for a pair of starships, the other factors become more<BR>relevant. <BR><BR>&gt; For Earth, G*M = 3.986e14 m^3/s^2 (It's easier to measure G * M than to<BR>&gt; measure either seperately)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; So, call it 4e14.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Earth's radius is 6371 km. Call that 6,400,000 meters.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The distances were are interested in are:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; 1/2 diam (surface, jump is fatal)&nbsp;&nbsp; = 6.4e6<BR>&gt; 10 diam&nbsp; (jump possible, but risky) = 1.28e8<BR>&gt; 100 diam (normal jump)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; = 1.28e9<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; So:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; T = 4e14 / (6.4e6)^3&nbsp; = ~1.5e-6<BR>&gt; T = 4e14 / (1.28e8)^3 = ~1.9e-10<BR>&gt; T = 4e14 / (1.28e9)^3 = ~1.9e-13<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; So, call the values:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; destroyed = more than 2e-6<BR>&gt; dangerous = more than 2e-10<BR>&gt; risky&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; = more than 2e-13<BR>&gt; <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I calculated a value of 5e-13 for the risky value, 5e-10 for dangerous<BR>and 5e-6 for destroyed. <BR><BR>&gt; BTW, you'll note that this moves the safe limit much closer to low<BR>&gt; density bodies like gas giants and stars. On the other hand, high<BR>&gt; density bodies such nickel iron asteroids.... &lt;eg&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; For Gas Giants, the safe limit is between 60 and 80 diameters. For<BR>planets between 80 and 105 diameters. For most stars, the distance is<BR>under 1 AU.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Anyone who would like to read more about how tidal forces are derived<BR>and their relation to relativity can read here:<BR><BR>http://www.math.washington.edu/~hillman/PUB/tidal<BR><BR><BR>&gt; - --<BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>&gt; leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thomas Jones-Low<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; tjoneslo@together.net<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 23:39:34 GMT<BR>From: Postmark Design Bureau &lt;postmark.design@btinternet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Skills in CT<BR><BR>Steven Hudson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;From: Postmark Design Bureau &lt;postmark.design@btinternet.com&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Things like the Computer-8 "Scientist" (what, hacking doesn't pay? :&gt; )<BR>&gt; sort of fall by the wayside as you add/allow skills like Gravitics,<BR>&gt; Robotics, Research (?) - whatever you like, it's CT, after all :)<BR><BR>I recall one of the problems I noticed with Supp 4 was the lack of additional<BR>skills.<BR><BR>Especially for the scientist. Apart from computers, gravitics, electronics<BR>and engineering, there wasn't much to be a scientist in!<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;IIRC, the flight school and medical school in High Guard gave the <BR>&gt; &gt;occasional pilot or doctor with a skill in the 6-8 range.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Those monstrousities I do recall :(<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Pilot at least adds to Agility again at level seven (!), but for the<BR>&gt; most part would an impromptu system need to deal comprehensively with<BR>&gt; skill levels in CT above five?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; I'm suggesting not.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Steven Hudson<BR><BR>Indeed, it is something to be fixed by the char gen system.<BR><BR>At the time of the great KB2 task war, an alternative task system was<BR>devised which I adopted.<BR><BR>I'd invented it independently but missed first posting :(<BR><BR>The system is simple:<BR><BR>The referee defines the task in terms of a skill level and a stat.<BR><BR>eg "shooting that person is a dex check for an expert marksman (rifle-4)."<BR><BR>So, someone with rifle-4 rolls 2d6 under their dex for success.<BR><BR>(Ok, so it's a roll low system...)<BR><BR>If you have rifle-5, you roll 1d6, rifle-3 - 3d6, rifle-2 - 4d6, etc.<BR><BR>If you want to gauge the success level, there are two solutions.<BR><BR>The simple solution, eg during combat when lots of checks are being made, if<BR>more then half the rolls are "1", there is extra success, if there are at<BR>least three sixes, there's a fumble. A fumbled success is still a success, an<BR>extra success failure is not a bad failure.<BR><BR>The added drama solution (especially good when disarming bombs!) Roll the<BR>dice one at a time and keep rolling until the total exceeds the player's<BR>stat. If the test requires 3d6 and you exceeded your stats with the third<BR>die, you just failed, if you exceeded it with your fourth, you just<BR>succeeded. If you exceeded your stat on the first die then everything went<BR>very badly, if you only failed on the sixteenth then you have a perfect<BR>resolution and much goodness should follow.<BR><BR>The problem is that unless the skills are in the range 1-4 with the<BR>occasional 5 or 6, it becomes very difficult to assign skill targets<BR>that don't result the action being a 1d6 roll for someone. Having a char gen<BR>system that gives stats of 12+ doesn't help either. (Not only is 2d6<BR>automatically successful, you can't even fumble.)<BR><BR>This isn't too bad in combat, since everyone is involved and not all will be<BR>graduates from sniper school. However, in trading and ship operations you can<BR>usually afford to rely on the group expert to make all the rolls.<BR><BR>So, either I go back to the T4 task system, or I need to change the char gen<BR>I am using.<BR><BR>I'd consider KB2 but never KB3.<BR><BR>Just one of many things that I don't like is that I want players to make<BR>decision about how to approach a task - do they have time for a cautious<BR>attempt or must they take the extra risk of a hasty or fateful task.<BR><BR>I *don't* want them worrying about the mechanics of do they want to roll all<BR>their dice to succed or fewer to improve their chance of exceptional success.<BR><BR>I've got other concerns, but I'd want to drop KB3 into a spreadsheet in case<BR>the numbers work better than I expect.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Phil Kitching, http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo<BR>Postmark Design Bureau, Laser Communications Division<BR>"For when your message must get through"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 23:38:19 -0500<BR>From: Thom Jones-Low &lt;tjoneslo@together.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Apology (Was: Re:Jump emergence)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Sorry about dumping most of a digest on everyone. I should know better,<BR>but was not fast enough on the cancel button. <BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thomas Jones-Low<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; tjoneslo@together.net<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 13:49:34 -0600<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3464<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Yes, but skill is FAR more important that stat.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; (snip)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; You should, for one, like KB3 then.&nbsp; Skills determine success on a task<BR>roll.<BR>&gt; Stats measure success.<BR><BR>I do like KB3. However, I disagree with the way you handle margin of<BR>success. This makes it so that if low-skill characters win, they win BIG,<BR>and if high-skill characters win, they usually just scrape by unless they're<BR>willing to risk failure. But a little thought will tell you that it's the<BR>experts that can do better more easily. If that's the way you like it, fine;<BR>this is a game, after all. Actually, there is NO WAY to simulate real-life<BR>to any but the most intuitive extents because we don't know how real-life<BR>works. (Actually, in real-life, and in a game if you think about it,<BR>whenever you do something, the probability of your success is either 0% or<BR>100%, because you'll either succeed or you won't. It's just that you don't<BR>know which one and can only make an educated guess. It's complicated but<BR>IMHO accurate.)<BR><BR>Here's my suggested change: Switch GREATER SUCCESS and MARGINAL SUCCESS so<BR>that you get the former for rolling statx2 or more and the latter for<BR>rolling less than stat. The way you handle failure is good, though.<BR><BR>&gt; If you have a high skill under KB3, you'll often be successful at your<BR>task--and<BR>&gt; you can even use your skill level to increase your stat before you measure<BR>your<BR>&gt; success or lower your difficulty to make it easier for you to be<BR>successful.<BR><BR>I'm afraid I don't remember seeing this, nor can I find it in the original<BR>posts. Could you recap for me?<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 22:03:31 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2D System (To beat the unbeatable roll, to...<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Michael A. Hoxie" &lt;ludowick@juno.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: The Perfect 2D System (To beat the unbeatable roll, to&nbsp; dice<BR>the undiceable throw...)<BR>...<BR>&gt;Here's an idea for a system that makes full use of the stat.&nbsp; Roll for<BR>&gt;success using CT/BITS task system or MT task system (though MT users<BR>...<BR>&gt;Since you're not afraid to roll twice to determine the success/failure,<BR>&gt;the additional die roll shouldn't be much trouble.&nbsp; Looks kinda easy.<BR>&gt;Whaddya think?<BR><BR>&nbsp; Looks good to me, and I am looking for CT options (other than MT)<BR>in skill resolution. <BR><BR>&nbsp; I still don't see where the unhealthy focus on stats cam from, <BR>although I guess some direct use for Int &amp; Edu is needed after<BR>chargen...<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Steven Hudson<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 22:30:21 -0800<BR>From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; But is it a star a long ways off or a nearby fusion plant? :-)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Doesn't matter.&nbsp; It will be only one of thousands of neutrino sources.<BR>&gt; In other words, it will probably make a 0.0001 difference to the<BR>&gt; correlation.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Yes, I know, there are probably ways to figure that out. But I bet<BR>&gt; &gt; that the PCs won't have much better ideas than we do until they've<BR>&gt; &gt; done a lot of digging in the ship's library. :-)<BR><BR>Actually, figuring out whether a neutrino source is a ship in the <BR>same system or a star is simple, move a few 1,000 km and take <BR>another reading, parallax will give you the distance of anything in <BR>system, and will let you know if something is too far away from that <BR>amount of parallax to locate.&nbsp; I'd also expect the sensors to <BR>automatically use parallax to determine relatively near distances as <BR>the hip orbits or otherwise moves through space.<BR><BR>- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 01:44:23 EST<BR>From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Revised Summary of KB3<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt; types:<BR><BR><A deal great><BR><BR>&lt;snipped&gt;<BR><BR>I am reminded by all of this of nearly every playtest discussion I've ever <BR>been in with a game designer. The vast majority are looking for "feedback" <BR>but react negatively (as Kenneth is doing) if you go "Editor" on them (as <BR>Frankie has done). Sigh.<BR><BR>So. Here's some "feedback"<BR><BR>Having finally, I believe, grokked the basics of this system, my impression <BR>is that it fails the Martha Stewart test: You cannot do exceptionally well at <BR>ordinary tasks by being good at them.<BR><BR>example:<BR>Skill-0 (1d), stat-7, Average (fixed) task (7+)<BR>roll of 1-6 is normal failure<BR><BR>and:<BR>Skill-1 (2d), stat-7, Average task (7+)<BR>roll of 2-6 is normal failure (15 in 36)<BR>roll of 7 is exceptional success (6 chances in 36)<BR>roll of 8-12 is normal success (15 in 36)<BR><BR>next:<BR>Skill-2 (3d), stat-7, Average task (7+)<BR>roll of 3-6 is normal failure<BR>roll of 7 is exceptional success<BR>roll of 8-14 is normal success<BR>roll of 15-18 is marginal success<BR><BR>finally:<BR>Skill-3 (4d), stat-7, Average task (7+)<BR>roll of 4-6 is normal failure<BR>roll of 7 is exceptional success<BR>roll of 8-14 is normal success<BR>roll of 15-24 is marginal success<BR><BR>I've used the fixed target numbers option for this, but I note that using an <BR>opposed die roll (what Kenneth refers to as a Random Target Number) does not <BR>change this basic flaw. Nor does the E-Die.<BR>Basically, bell-curves and sweet spots don't mix...<BR><BR>GC<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 23:22:10 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: Skills in CT<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Michael A. Hoxie" &lt;ludowick@juno.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Skills in CT<BR>...<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; To put this squarely in CT rules* terms, where do the faithful<BR>&gt; &gt;draw the line with skill levels getting silly? Assuming book 4-8<BR>&gt; &gt;chargen, do you expect to have to have a resolution _system_ to<BR>&gt; &gt;cover characters with skill levels of 4+? Or 5+? <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Super skilled characters (ala James Bond) would automatically succeed<BR>&gt;in mundanely difficult tasks (unless you're using a natural "2" is <BR>&gt;always a failure rule).&nbsp; The Referee has to challenge such characters<BR>&gt;with *very* difficult tasks, with lots of negative DMs (put the James<BR>&gt;Bond type into the James Bond type of predicament).<BR><BR>&nbsp; Let's say we wanted a skill system the way the ghods^h^h Mr. Miller<BR>wanted it - in CT, that is - would the MT system with the difficulty<BR>numbers reduced by 1 or 2 to allow for the sinful reliance on stat<BR>numbers work well enough? Screwing up the easiest things merely <BR>requires that you have no skill - sounds fair to me :&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;I've never seen CT characters with &gt;5 skills in real gaming situations,<BR><BR>&nbsp; And speaking of "real (game) world situations", does a system _have_<BR>to have a chance (a la GURPS roll of 18) of a fumble on any dice roll<BR>regardless of how easy the task rolled for is?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Steven Hudson<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 03:09:21 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3464<BR><BR>James Jensen wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I do like KB3. However, I disagree with the way you handle margin of<BR>&gt; success. This makes it so that if low-skill characters win, they win BIG,<BR>&gt; and if high-skill characters win, they usually just scrape by unless they're<BR>&gt; willing to risk failure.<BR><BR>This is the most intelligent comment I've seen on KB3 yet.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Here's my suggested change: Switch GREATER SUCCESS and MARGINAL SUCCESS so<BR>&gt; that you get the former for rolling statx2 or more and the latter for<BR>&gt; rolling less than stat. The way you handle failure is good, though.<BR><BR>I've thought of this, but the problem is that you penalize high stats that way<BR>(ie, a person with a 15 stat will have a much harder time reaching Greater<BR>Success than a person with a 7 stat)<BR><BR><BR>&gt; I'm afraid I don't remember seeing this, nor can I find it in the original<BR>&gt; posts. Could you recap for me?<BR><BR>It was one of the play test changes.&nbsp; It's not posted in the original post.&nbsp; I<BR>just put it up the other day with the Revised Summary of KB3.<BR><BR>I'll reprint that one topic here.&nbsp; Tell me if you think this will solve your<BR>Greater Success problem you mentioned above.<BR><BR>(L)&nbsp; SKILL OPTIONS:<BR>Under KB3, characters have options based on their skill level.&nbsp; The<BR>higher skilled the character is, the more options he has.<BR><BR>As you saw above, a character's skill level determines how many dice can<BR>be thrown.&nbsp; That is one option.&nbsp; But, there are others.<BR><BR>OPTION 1:&nbsp; A player is allowed to throw a number of D6 equal to his<BR>character's skill level plus the E-Die when throwing for a task.<BR><BR>OPTION 2:&nbsp; A player may elect to use one or all of his character's skill<BR>points to increase the skill's governing stat for measuring purposes.<BR>This will make it easier for him to roll Greater Success and give him<BR>bigger ranges in the other measuring categories.&nbsp; (All skill points may<BR>be used in this manner, but the E-Die is always thrown to achieve<BR>success on the roll.)<BR><BR>OPTION 3:&nbsp; A player may elect to use one of all of his character's skill<BR>points to reduce his difficulty number.&nbsp; In this instance, use the stat<BR>as a modifier to reduce a difficulty roll or simply subtract the stat<BR>from the static target number.&nbsp; (If difficulty is reduced to 0 or below,<BR>the task results in automatic success.&nbsp; All skill points may be used in<BR>this manner, but the E-Die is always thrown to achieve success on the<BR>roll.)<BR><BR>OPTION 4:&nbsp; A player may decide to mix any of the options above.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 03:44:44 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Revised Summary of KB3<BR><BR>GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; I am reminded by all of this of nearly every playtest discussion I've ever<BR>&gt; been in with a game designer. The vast majority are looking for "feedback"<BR>&gt; but react negatively (as Kenneth is doing) if you go "Editor" on them (as<BR>&gt; Frankie has done). Sigh.<BR><BR>I react negatively to non-constructive criticisms and idiotic banter.&nbsp; Check out<BR>the comment James Jensen just made.&nbsp; He pointed out something that he thought may<BR>need fixing in KB3, and he did it in a nice, non-combative, constructive<BR>criticism kind of way.<BR><BR>He do as Frankie has, addressing most of his reply to moot points of technical<BR>writing.<BR><BR>I welcome constructive criticism.&nbsp; I loathe people who just want to bitch for<BR>bitching's sake.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; Having finally, I believe, grokked the basics of this system, my impression<BR>&gt; is that it fails the Martha Stewart test: You cannot do exceptionally well at<BR>&gt; ordinary tasks by being good at them.<BR><BR>This is a very good post, by the way.<BR><BR>(See...I do appreciate good constructive criticism stated in an intelligent,<BR>non-beligerent way.&nbsp; My interest is to make KB3 a great system--not to insist I'm<BR>right and others are wrong.)<BR><BR>So, let's take a look at what you've got--<BR><BR>Your basic point is this:&nbsp; In order to roll Greater Success, you have to roll<BR>lower than your stat.&nbsp; But if you have a higher Skill, you'll throw more dice,<BR>and the chance of you throwing Greater Success gets lower and lower the higher<BR>your skill becomes.<BR><BR>Good point.&nbsp; Very good point.<BR><BR>We're actually doing some real testing now!<BR><BR>I want to look at this further, but my initiatial take on this is that you should<BR>use one of the skill options on KB3.&nbsp; You don't have to throw all your dice--you<BR>can also use your skill points to either lower your target number, raise your<BR>stat for measuring purposes, or both.<BR><BR>The more I think about your point in this post, the more exceptional it becomes<BR>(no one yet has made such a good point with KB3).<BR><BR>I need to look at the numbers, but this may require an adjustment to the system<BR>(which is why it is in playtest--which is why I'm interested in discussing<BR>it--which is why I think your post is so enlightening).<BR><BR>What do you think of this--<BR><BR>What if we added skill level to governing stat for measuring purposes<BR>automatically (this was an optional rule in the original KB3 write up).&nbsp; Players<BR>could still use points to reduce the target number if they wanted as an option.<BR><BR>So--<BR><BR>Stat-7, Skill-0, Average 7+ task<BR>Throws 1D<BR>GS stat 7-, so GS not possible<BR><BR><BR>Stat-7, Skill-1, Average 7+ task<BR>Throws 2D<BR>GS stat 8-, so GS on 7-8<BR><BR><BR>Stat-7, Skill-2, Average 7+ task<BR>Throws 3D<BR>GS stat&nbsp; 9-, so GS on 7-8-9<BR><BR>Stat-7, Skill-3, Average 7+ task<BR>Throws 4D<BR>GS on 10-, so GS on 7-8-9-10<BR><BR>Stat-7, Skill-4, Average 7+ task<BR>Throws 5D<BR>GS on 11-, so GS on 7-8-9-10-11<BR><BR>Stat-7, Skill-5, Average 7+ task<BR>Throws 1D<BR>GS on 12-, so GS on 7-8-9-10-11-12<BR><BR><BR>What do you think of that?&nbsp; Will that do the trick.<BR><BR>I want to run some percentages, but on first glance it looks like the chance of<BR>rolling GS is getting higher the higher the skill level you have.<BR><BR>I'd like to hear your comments as to whether you think this is a good idea or<BR>not.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 04:05:43 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Revised Summary of KB3<BR><BR>Even though this looks good on paper (ie more numbers are available for GS the higher<BR>skill you have), I don't think the actual percentage chance of rolling GS is going up<BR>with higher skill.<BR><BR>Can anybody figure what these percentage chances are (I'm not quite sure how to do<BR>it.)<BR><BR><BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Stat-7, Skill-0, Average 7+ task<BR>&gt; Throws 1D<BR>&gt; GS stat 7-, so GS not possible<BR><BR>I can figure that one.&nbsp; Chance of rolling GS is 0%<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; Stat-7, Skill-1, Average 7+ task<BR>&gt; Throws 2D<BR>&gt; GS stat 8-, so GS on 7-8<BR><BR>What's the chance of rolling a 7 or 8 on 2D?<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Stat-7, Skill-2, Average 7+ task<BR>&gt; Throws 3D<BR>&gt; GS stat&nbsp; 9-, so GS on 7-8-9<BR><BR>What's the chance of rolling 7, 8, or 9 on 3D?<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Stat-7, Skill-3, Average 7+ task<BR>&gt; Throws 4D<BR>&gt; GS on 10-, so GS on 7-8-9-10<BR><BR>What's the chance of rolling 7, 8, 9, 10 on 4D?<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Stat-7, Skill-4, Average 7+ task<BR>&gt; Throws 5D<BR>&gt; GS on 11-, so GS on 7-8-9-10-11<BR><BR>What's&nbsp; the chance of rolling 7, 8, 9, 10, or 11 on 5D?<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Stat-7, Skill-5, Average 7+ task<BR>&gt; Throws 6D<BR>&gt; GS on 12-, so GS on 7-8-9-10-11-12<BR><BR>What's the chance of rolling 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, or 12 on 6D?<BR><BR><BR>My guess is that the percentage chance is actually going down even though more<BR>numbers are available for GS at higher skill.<BR><BR>If this is so, then this is certainly a flaw in KB3, and it will be back to the<BR>drawing board for the system (but I've already got a few ideas on how to re-work the<BR>system).<BR><BR>Your input is appreciated.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 21:22:18 +1100<BR>From: "Robert O'Connor" &lt;robocon@ozemail.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re : Health Care in the US (was : Re : Naming Laws)<BR><BR>David Summers wrote :-<BR>&gt; Just for the record, if you are sick enough to require hospitalization,<BR>&gt; there are hospitals that will give care without regard to the ability <BR>&gt; to pay.&nbsp; The issue is mostly relevant to the issue of preventive care <BR>&gt; and general health.<BR><BR>This is true. However, the hospitals you refer to are funded out of<BR>state and federal Medicaid budgets. Things often become difficult in the<BR>second half of the financial year, sometimes earlier. First-world health<BR>care is expensive. <BR><BR>With funding typically based on diagnosis-related group (DRG) casemix<BR>systems, there are interesting perverse incentives at work in that<BR>sector of the U.S. healthcare industry.<BR><BR>The recent problems highlighted by several interesting cases of HMO<BR>mismanagement on an individual patient level, let alone within the<BR>organisations themselves, demonstrate that health care delivery and<BR>access are far from optimal in the U.S.<BR><BR>It's interesting to note that in a recent WHO study of over 100 nations'<BR>health care systems, countries like Spain and France topped the list<BR>when factors such as equality of access, limitation of consumer/provider<BR>liability, and cost per quality-adjusted life year were also considered<BR>with other traditional outcome measures.<BR><BR>The U.S. was about a third of the way down the list, at the bottom of<BR>all the OECD countries.<BR><BR><BR>Robert O'Connor<BR>Medico, Gamer<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 10:49:38 -0000<BR>From: Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Revised Summary of KB3<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions<BR>&gt; [mailto:dreamer@brokersys.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 27 December 2000 10:06<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Revised Summary of KB3<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Even though this looks good on paper (ie more numbers are <BR>&gt; available for GS the higher<BR>&gt; skill you have), I don't think the actual percentage chance <BR>&gt; of rolling GS is going up<BR>&gt; with higher skill.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Can anybody figure what these percentage chances are (I'm not <BR>&gt; quite sure how to do<BR>&gt; it.)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Stat-7, Skill-0, Average 7+ task<BR>&gt; &gt; Throws 1D<BR>&gt; &gt; GS stat 7-, so GS not possible<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I can figure that one.&nbsp; Chance of rolling GS is 0%<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Stat-7, Skill-1, Average 7+ task<BR>&gt; &gt; Throws 2D<BR>&gt; &gt; GS stat 8-, so GS on 7-8<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; What's the chance of rolling a 7 or 8 on 2D?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Stat-7, Skill-2, Average 7+ task<BR>&gt; &gt; Throws 3D<BR>&gt; &gt; GS stat&nbsp; 9-, so GS on 7-8-9<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; What's the chance of rolling 7, 8, or 9 on 3D?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Stat-7, Skill-3, Average 7+ task<BR>&gt; &gt; Throws 4D<BR>&gt; &gt; GS on 10-, so GS on 7-8-9-10<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; What's the chance of rolling 7, 8, 9, 10 on 4D?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Stat-7, Skill-4, Average 7+ task<BR>&gt; &gt; Throws 5D<BR>&gt; &gt; GS on 11-, so GS on 7-8-9-10-11<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; What's&nbsp; the chance of rolling 7, 8, 9, 10, or 11 on 5D?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Stat-7, Skill-5, Average 7+ task<BR>&gt; &gt; Throws 6D<BR>&gt; &gt; GS on 12-, so GS on 7-8-9-10-11-12<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; What's the chance of rolling 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, or 12 on 6D?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; My guess is that the percentage chance is actually going down <BR>&gt; even though more<BR>&gt; numbers are available for GS at higher skill.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; If this is so, then this is certainly a flaw in KB3, and it <BR>&gt; will be back to the<BR>&gt; drawing board for the system (but I've already got a few <BR>&gt; ideas on how to re-work the<BR>&gt; system).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Your input is appreciated.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Kenneth.<BR><BR>Yes the % is going down...<BR><BR>Also, with you e-dice, the two variations do *not* balance out over a<BR>number of throws, as you earlier stated... I have only considered 1d<BR>(which per force is an e-die, and 2d (where one die is the e-die). The<BR>average roll of 1d is 4.3333 and 7.5 for 2d. As more dice are added the<BR>variation from the norm gets smaller, but it is always positive.<BR>Consider this, with 3d the maximum reduction is 11 (e-die 1, other 2 are<BR>5 each), whereas the maximum increase is 18 (all 3 dice are 6)...<BR><BR>I think the main problems with KB3 are that it adds complexity at the<BR>expense of statistical common sense. Patches to fix the statistics add<BR>even more complexity.<BR><BR>Also, your desire for all points of stats and skill to be useful without<BR>stat dominating, while laudable, will always entail either multiplying<BR>the value of skill (as you effectively do in KB3, as each point of skill<BR>translates to 3.5+ on the task roll) or dividing the value of stat (as<BR>in MT).<BR><BR>My personal feeling is that stats have other uses beyond purely task<BR>related ones, so that is where the fine detail of individual stat points<BR>comes through. (physical stats affect damage capacity, Int &amp; Edu govern<BR>total skill levels, Soc governs starting finances, and has interpersonal<BR>uses unrelated to purely task oriented situations, Psi governs maximum<BR>amount of power you can put into a psionic feat etc. That stat 5-, 6-10,<BR>and 11+ are all essentially identical for task bonuses is not a great<BR>problem for me. Just think of it as a bonus for being poor talent,<BR>average talent, exceptional talent...<BR><BR>Actually I prefer stat/3 to stat/5, and making task numbers one or two<BR>harder than in MT to account for the larger bonuses...<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3471<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-zc04.mx.aol.com (rly-zc04.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.4]) by air-zc02.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Wed, 27 Dec 2000 06:15:30 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-zc04.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Wed, 27 Dec 2000 06:14:56 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id FAA22491;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Wed, 27 Dec 2000 05:47:09 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Wed, 27 Dec 2000 05:46:56 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id FAA22390<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Wed, 27 Dec 2000 05:46:56 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 05:46:56 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012271046.FAA22390@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3471<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></A></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Wednesday, December 27 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3472<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>RE: Probabilities<BR>RE: Lend-Lease (with ObTrav's!!)<BR>More KB3 banter<BR>Task Systems<BR>Re: Freelance Traveller Updated<BR>The JJ1 Task System<BR>Re: Jump Emergence &amp; Marc<BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>MT ability modifiers<BR>KB3 probabilities<BR>KB3, rule variations and other games<BR>Re: KB3, rule variations and other games<BR>RE: KB3 probabilities<BR>RE: Aliens (was Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR>Star Worn? Comments<BR>Re: KB3, rule variations and other games<BR>Re: KB3 probabilities<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 11:30:45 -0000<BR>From: Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Probabilities<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Hans Rancke-Madsen [mailto:rancke@diku.dk]<BR>&gt; Sent: 27 December 2000 02:22<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Probabilities<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Matthew Bond writes:<BR>&gt; &gt;From: "Hans Rancke-Madsen" &lt;rancke@diku.dk&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;Frank G. Pitt writes:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;what is the probability of the other two dice being even if the<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;E-Dice turns up a 6 ?<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;50%<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;25%... there are *2* other dice...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; If the question is "that BOTH other dice are even" you're <BR>&gt; right. If the question<BR>&gt; is "that the sum of the two other dice are even" then the <BR>&gt; probability is 50%.<BR>&gt; The same applies to the other questions.<BR><BR>Yeah, but as this all relates to the KB3 e-dice, that has effects on<BR>individual dice totals rather than summed dice totals, then the former<BR>is the correct interpretation of the question...<BR>&nbsp; <BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;what is the probability of one of the other two dice being <BR>&gt; even, and<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;one of the other dice being odd if the E-Dice turns up a 1 <BR>&gt; or a siz&nbsp; ?<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;50% (This, incidentally, is the same as the two dice being odd).<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;25%<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Nope. There are four possible ways the two dice can fall. <BR>&gt; They can both be even<BR>&gt; or they can both be odd. Or one (specific) of them can be <BR>&gt; even and the other<BR>&gt; odd. Or one (specific) of them can be odd and the other even. <BR>&gt; Two chances out of<BR>&gt; four is 50%.<BR><BR>Doh! Of course it is 50%... 25% * 2 combinations... serves me right for<BR>posting at 2am...<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 22:50:13 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Lend-Lease (with ObTrav's!!)<BR><BR>&gt; From: Steven Hudson<BR>&gt; &gt;From: "Alan Bradley" <BR>&gt; &gt;In other words, the Japanese were pretty much defeated within six or<BR>&gt; &gt;seven months, although the counter-offensive took years to recover the<BR>&gt; &gt;territory they had seized.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; I'll take a bit of issue with your conflating "offensive advantage<BR>&gt; exhausted" &amp; defeated, but your point is made.<BR><BR>Well, the Japanese weren't ever going to beat the US at attritional<BR>warfare.&nbsp; Once they were engaged in it, they were doomed to eventual<BR>defeat.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Actually, there was actually a certain logic in the initial<BR>US/British/Dutch overconfidence.&nbsp; Their main problem was that they<BR>*drastically* underestimated how successful the initial Japanese offensive<BR>would be.&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Hmm, was the Imperium "defeated" after the conquest of Terra in 1002?<BR>&gt; There's probably IN courses on the "correct" answer to _that_ one...<BR><BR>Probably.<BR><BR>Of course my face-saving Imperial solution would emphasise the fact that<BR>most of the unconquered Solomani worlds had never been part of the<BR>Imperium, so "all" of the rebellious Imperial worlds had been recaptured. <BR>Therefore the goal of the operation had been achieved, so it was a victory.<BR>Of course, if some clever individual had specified that the goal of the<BR>operation was the conquest of the whole Solomani Sphere, my fine logical<BR>argument would break down...<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 09:48:29 -0600<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: More KB3 banter<BR><BR>&gt;I've thought of this, but the problem is that you penalize high stats that <BR>&gt;way<BR>&gt;(ie, a person with a 15 stat will have a much harder time reaching Greater<BR>&gt;Success than a person with a 7 stat)<BR><BR>Duh on me! I can't believe that I didn't see this. Unfortunately, I still <BR>don't have a solution, but with the combined brain power of the TML, I think <BR>that we can figure something out.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>Administrator of the Milieu: 0 Aid Society<BR>http://members.nbci.com/cheebzero/trav_index.htm<BR>_________________________________________________________________<BR>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 11:02:16 -0500<BR>From: "VonRammen" &lt;von_rammen@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Task Systems<BR><BR>I've been reading the KB3 debate with great interest, being a task system<BR>grognard of sorts. (Not to mention that a fellow of my name is being used in<BR>many of Ken's examples! :) It's fun to read everyone's viewpoint on what<BR>they want out of a system.<BR><BR>That said, my own preference is to stick with the MT system. No offense,<BR>Ken, but KB3 is too complex for me to want to run it with any regularity.<BR>And, as others have pointed out, statistically speaking it is very difficult<BR>to analyze, and therefore know whether or not the difficulties are too high<BR>or low.<BR><BR>There are other reasons, of course. Having thought about it extensively, I<BR>have come to the reluctant conclusion that the MT system is the one that<BR>best fits what I want in a task system, to wit: 1) rolling a small amount of<BR>dice (2D is just right) to determine success or failure--and high rolls are<BR>better; 2) Allowing ability checks, ability + skill checks, or skill + skill<BR>checks; 3) Resolving opposed tasks with one die roll; 4) Making high<BR>difficulty levels out of the reach of characters with mediocre abilities.<BR><BR>The last point is my own personal preference, and YMMV, of course. However,<BR>I believe that Impossible and Formidible tasks should be attainable only by<BR>highly skilled characters. For example, I probably have Computer-1; I know<BR>SQL, enough VB to keep the billable hours rolling in, and could probably<BR>maintain or even install a network system if I had to (or made it a cautious<BR>task!) However, there ain't no way in God's green earth I'm going to hack<BR>into the Pentagon (let's assume for the argument that it would be an<BR>Impossible task, the opinion of contractors who have worked for the<BR>government aside :) Now, if your view of the universe is that a PC should<BR>always have a chance to succeed, fine; but my experience in the real world<BR>is that this is emphatically not the case.<BR><BR>As for the other points: 1) has to do with my sense of RPG aesthetics, so<BR>you are free to disagree. 2) and 3), however, are more important. The MT<BR>system allows you to check all possible combinations of stats--skills and<BR>abilities--whereas almost no other system does. Both T4 and KB3 would have<BR>problems resolving the combination of skill and skill, for example, which is<BR>rare but remains the best way to define certain tasks. Writing a medical<BR>program could call for Difficult, Med, Computer. Of course, you could define<BR>it as two tasks using an ability, but my point is that there are cases where<BR>skills alone are the best way to define a task.<BR><BR>The main bad thing to say about MT is that it undervalues abilities,<BR>especially at the high end. This is a problem, but, as others have pointed<BR>out, there is basically no way around the problem without normalizing skills<BR>and abilities. Much as it has pained me to play PCs who got the same bonus<BR>from stat-9 that they got from stat-5, the speed of the MT system seemed to<BR>make up for it. Furthermore, I think that while natural ability (the stat)<BR>is important to how well a person will do at a given task, skill remains<BR>more important. I myself have considered the problem of altering the ability<BR>modifiers: say by linking them to a range, rather than stat/5: -2 for 2-3,<BR>+1 for 6-8, maybe giving +1 for each point over 12: +4 at 13, +5 at 14, etc.<BR>But this seems a little complex (even though it has a nice CT feel to it.) I<BR>also considered making the denominator of the ability slide upwards with<BR>difficulty level: stat/2 at Routine, stat/4 at difficult, etc. Again, this<BR>seems to be overly complex.<BR><BR>Perhaps a stat based target number system could be created, using what I<BR>think is the most important rule in the MT task system: the fact that no<BR>task can have more than a +/- 8 modifier, no matter what the relevant skills<BR>or abilities are. NB that combinations totalling more than +8 are still<BR>valuable, as such a character will succeed far better at opposed tasks. The<BR>+/- 8 rule meant that a difficulty change in MT has teeth: even with +8,<BR>changing from Difficult to Formidible meant that your probability of success<BR>went from 97% to 58%--with a correspondingly greater chance of a mishap.<BR><BR>Anyway, just my .02 Cr. I'm enjoying the debates.<BR><BR>Fred Ramen<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 10:33:36 -0500<BR>From: "VonRammen" &lt;von_rammen@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Freelance Traveller Updated<BR><BR>"Michael A. Hoxie" &lt;ludowick@juno.com&gt; writes:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;I *really* like this serial story.&nbsp; Big congrats to Fred Ramen.&nbsp; Very<BR>creative, well written, and suspensful.<BR><BR>Ludowick&lt;&lt;<BR><BR>Thank you, sir. I've had fun writing it. And I promise that the sequel will<BR>include 50% more canonical information!<BR><BR>Plus, the story's had the unexpected benefit of getting me back in touch<BR>with a friend of mine whom I haven't heard from since high school. Seems she<BR>helped launch the games channel on AOL, so she's become familiar with<BR>Traveller.<BR><BR>Fred Ramen<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 10:18:18 -0600<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: The JJ1 Task System<BR><BR>Here's another task system. Tell me what you think.<BR><BR>Step One: Ref/GM declares difficulty. See table below for targets:<BR><BR>Easy&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2<BR>Average&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 4<BR>Difficult&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 6<BR>Formidable&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 8<BR>Staggering&nbsp; &nbsp; 10<BR>Impossible&nbsp; &nbsp; 12<BR><BR>Step Two: Roll dice equal to one plus the absolute value of the bonus from <BR>the attribute. See table below.<BR><BR>0-2 = -2<BR>3-5 = -1<BR>6-8 = +0<BR>9-11 = +1<BR>12-14 = +2<BR>15 = +3<BR><BR>Step Three: If the bonus from the attribute was a positive bonus or a bonus <BR>of zero, take the *highest* die rolled and add to it the relevant skill's <BR>level. If the bonus was negative, do the same but take the *lowest* die.<BR><BR>Step Four: If the total is equal to or greater than the target, the result <BR>is a success. If it is equal to or greater than 3x the target, the result is <BR>a Great Success. The Ref/GM adjudicates what this means.<BR><BR>Step Five: Inform Mikko that, yes, this is a rip-off of RIP 3rd Edition.<BR><BR>There. Now we have a system that neither underrates nor overpowers <BR>attributes (they still need skills to get a result higher than six), and one <BR>in which the character defines the roll. And one that often uses 2D, whether <BR>it's because of a +1 or -1 bonus. And one that has it's roots in the country <BR>of Finland.<BR><BR>I'm officially calling it JJ1. Thank you.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>Administrator of the Milieu: 0 Aid Society<BR>http://members.nbci.com/cheebzero/trav_index.htm<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________<BR>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 11:31:27 EST<BR>From: Kagehira@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Jump Emergence &amp; Marc<BR><BR>- --part1_a4.de4f49c.277b735f_boundary<BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit<BR><BR>In a message dated 12/27/00 3:15:30 AM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Jump emergence<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 23:24:48 PST<BR>&gt; &gt; From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; It would be good to know if the 100D limit is mean to be an<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; approximation as I'm curious if a ship actually has to get with 100D<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; of a black hole to precipitate out...<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Mark hasn't said one way or the other. But given that the "standard<BR>&gt; &gt; planets" in Traveller (ie what you get if you use the basic system<BR>&gt; &gt; generation stuff from CT, MT, etc) all have the *same* density, it's<BR>&gt; &gt; easy to show that any effect that varies as the *cube root* of the mass<BR>&gt; &gt; will be at the same strengh at a given number of diameters from them.<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; From what I have been told, Marc has explicitly stated that the 100D<BR>&gt; limit is a fixed limit for all objects (stars, planets, starships,<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>Sounds right. It's not quite tied to Mass, for instance the Antares star <BR>systems' 100D limit is far outsystem, so you can't jump directly to the <BR>inhabited planet. You need to jump to the orbital starport located outsystem.<BR><BR><BR>Bryan<BR><BR><BR>- --part1_a4.de4f49c.277b735f_boundary<BR>Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit<BR><BR><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT size=2>In a message dated 12/27/00 3:15:30 AM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>&lt;BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"&gt;Subject: Re: Jump emergence<BR><BR><BR><BR>&amp;gt; Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 23:24:48 PST<BR><BR>&amp;gt; From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR><BR>&amp;gt; Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>&amp;gt; <BR><BR>&amp;gt; &amp;gt; It would be good to know if the 100D limit is mean to be an<BR><BR>&amp;gt; &amp;gt; approximation as I'm curious if a ship actually has to get with 100D<BR><BR>&amp;gt; &amp;gt; of a black hole to precipitate out...<BR><BR>&amp;gt; <BR><BR>&amp;gt; Mark hasn't said one way or the other. But given that the "standard<BR><BR>&amp;gt; planets" in Traveller (ie what you get if you use the basic system<BR><BR>&amp;gt; generation stuff from CT, MT, etc) all have the *same* density, it's<BR><BR>&amp;gt; easy to show that any effect that varies as the *cube root* of the mass<BR><BR>&amp;gt; will be at the same strengh at a given number of diameters from them.<BR><BR>&amp;gt; <BR><BR>&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;From what I have been told, Marc has explicitly stated that the 100D<BR><BR>limit is a fixed limit for all objects (stars, planets, starships,<BR><BR>etc.).&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Sounds right. It's not quite tied to Mass, for instance the Antares star <BR>systems' 100D limit is far outsystem, so you can't jump directly to the <BR>inhabited planet. You need to jump to the orbital starport located outsystem.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Bryan<BR><BR></FONT><BR><BR>- --part1_a4.de4f49c.277b735f_boundary--<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 10:31:30 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>&gt;From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>...<BR>&gt;Actually, figuring out whether a neutrino source is a ship in the <BR>&gt;same system or a star is simple, move a few 1,000 km and take <BR>&gt;another reading, parallax will give you the distance of anything in <BR>&gt;system, and will let you know if something is too far away from that <BR>&gt;amount of parallax to locate.&nbsp; I'd also expect the sensors to <BR>&gt;automatically use parallax to determine relatively near distances as <BR>&gt;the hip orbits or otherwise moves through space.<BR><BR>&nbsp; FWIW, the signal from a star won't change significantly if you open<BR>or close the range by a thousand km - everything elses will, yes?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 19:00:19 GMT<BR>From: Postmark Design Bureau &lt;postmark.design@btinternet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: MT ability modifiers<BR><BR>I've never used MT but the comments to the effect that<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; "dividing by 5 is such hard work"<BR><BR>prompted a thought:<BR><BR>surely no one actually does long division of their ability score by 5?<BR><BR>I'd have thought that a mental "if test" along the lines of:<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; "double digit ability, +2, high single digit ability of 5+, +1"<BR><BR>Ok, so abilities of 15+ have a +3 modifier but they aren't common Str, Dex,<BR>End scores, so they aren't reduced in combat.*<BR><BR>*Unless you have scenarios where Dulinor's rapier like wit defeats<BR>Strephon's shield of etiquette, causing 2 points of damage to his SOC.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Phil Kitching, http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo<BR>Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Products Division<BR>"Microwaving halfbaked ideas from across the galaxy"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 18:48:05 GMT<BR>From: Postmark Design Bureau &lt;postmark.design@btinternet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: KB3 probabilities<BR><BR>As a dice rolling mechanism, I always had a fondness for dice vs dice, since<BR>it does give a feeling of interaction between the players involved.<BR><BR>One of the systems that I quite like (not for Traveller) comes from a<BR>set of Western gunfight rules (The Shootist, I believe)<BR><BR>Each character's abilities (shooting, riding, fighting, dodging, initiative)<BR>are a die - 1d4 for a low ability, up to 1d12 (modifiers take this to 1d2<BR>through 1d20) To resolve any action, the two players involved roll their<BR>dice.<BR><BR>Highest wins, IIRC the defender gets ties.<BR><BR>I was going to use this for some rules, until I did the sums. It turns out<BR>that higher abilities are nothing like as dominant as you might expect -<BR>1d2 attacking 1d20 wins 2.5%, 1d20 attacking 1d2 fails 7.5%.<BR><BR>So I thought that I'd let my computer crunch some nested loops and<BR>calculate a few probabilities.<BR><BR>The success probabilities for KB3, including the event die are:<BR><BR>against static probabilities:<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Skill<BR>Task&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Def&nbsp; &nbsp; 1&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 7&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 8<BR>Easy&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 3 66.7% 88.9% 93.1% 95.8% 97.6% 98.6% 99.2% 99.6% 99.8%<BR>Average&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 7 16.7% 55.6% 81.5% 89.1% 92.5% 94.9% 96.7% 97.9% 98.7%<BR>Difficult&nbsp; 11 16.7% 19.4% 50.5% 76.0% 86.0% 90.0% 92.5% 94.5% 96.1%<BR>Formidable 15&nbsp; 0.0% 13.9% 20.8% 46.3% 70.7% 82.8% 87.6% 90.3% 92.4%<BR>Staggering 19&nbsp; 0.0%&nbsp; 5.6% 13.0% 21.5% 43.0% 66.2% 79.6% 85.5% 88.4%<BR>Impossible 23&nbsp; 0.0%&nbsp; 2.8%&nbsp; 8.3% 13.6% 21.6% 40.5% 62.2% 76.6% 83.5%<BR><BR>against e-die target numbers (assuming I got the sums correct)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Skill<BR>Task&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Def&nbsp; &nbsp; 1&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 7&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 8<BR>Easy&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1D 58.3% 76.9% 85.4% 92.2% 95.7% 97.3% 98.2% 98.8% 99.2%<BR>Average&nbsp; &nbsp; 2D 28.2% 54.1% 72.1% 81.6% 87.7% 91.8% 94.6% 96.3% 97.4%<BR>Difficult&nbsp; 3D 18.1% 33.0% 53.0% 68.9% 78.5% 84.4% 88.7% 91.9% 94.3%<BR>Formidable 4D 10.3% 21.5% 35.6% 52.5% 66.7% 75.9% 81.8% 86.0% 89.4%<BR>Staggering 5D&nbsp; 5.8% 14.5% 24.4% 37.3% 52.2% 65.0% 73.9% 79.7% 83.8%<BR>Impossible 6D&nbsp; 3.7%&nbsp; 9.8% 17.6% 26.8% 38.7% 52.0% 63.7% 72.1% 77.8%<BR><BR>I know that Kenneth has presented a version without the e-die but that<BR>seems to spoil the flavour.<BR><BR>However, one possible simplification is retain the removing odd numbers<BR>if the e-die is 1 but not have the doubling of evens if the e-die is 6.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Skill<BR>Task&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Def&nbsp; &nbsp; 1&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 7&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 8<BR>Easy&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 3 66.7% 88.9% 93.1% 95.8% 97.6% 98.6% 99.2% 99.6% 99.8%<BR>Average&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 7&nbsp; 0.0% 55.6% 81.5% 89.1% 92.5% 94.9% 96.7% 97.9% 98.7%<BR>Difficult&nbsp; 11&nbsp; 0.0%&nbsp; 8.3% 47.7% 75.7% 86.0% 90.0% 92.5% 94.5% 96.1%<BR>Formidable 15&nbsp; 0.0%&nbsp; 0.0%&nbsp; 9.3% 42.0% 69.8% 82.6% 87.6% 90.3% 92.4%<BR>Staggering 19&nbsp; 0.0%&nbsp; 0.0%&nbsp; 0.0%&nbsp; 9.6% 37.5% 64.5% 79.3% 85.4% 88.4%<BR>Impossible 23&nbsp; 0.0%&nbsp; 0.0%&nbsp; 0.0%&nbsp; 0.4%&nbsp; 9.6% 33.9% 59.8% 75.9% 83.4%<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Skill<BR>Task&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Def&nbsp; &nbsp; 1&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 7&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 8<BR>Easy&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1D 58.3% 85.6% 93.2% 95.9% 97.5% 98.5% 99.1% 99.5% 99.7%<BR>Average&nbsp; &nbsp; 2D 21.8% 55.2% 79.2% 89.4% 93.4% 95.5% 97.0% 98.0% 98.7%<BR>Difficult&nbsp; 3D&nbsp; 9.9% 27.3% 54.0% 75.2% 86.3% 91.2% 93.8% 95.5% 96.8%<BR>Formidable 4D&nbsp; 5.9% 13.7% 30.6% 53.4% 72.4% 83.7% 89.3% 92.2% 94.1%<BR>Staggering 5D&nbsp; 3.7%&nbsp; 8.3% 16.9% 32.9% 53.0% 70.3% 81.5% 87.6% 90.8%<BR>Impossible 6D&nbsp; 2.3%&nbsp; 5.6% 10.5% 19.5% 34.6% 52.7% 68.7% 79.6% 86.0%<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Phil Kitching, http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo<BR>Postmark Design Bureau, Laser Communications Division<BR>"For when your message must get through"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 20:45:59 -0000<BR>From: "Mark Preston" &lt;mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: KB3, rule variations and other games<BR><BR>Not that I dislike seeing games ideas - far from it - but the TML is<BR>supposed to be about Traveller, the game as it exists, and not about<BR>SF games in general or major rules changes. To be honest, I may well<BR>join a mailing list that _does_ deal with rules and rule systems - but<BR>that really isn't what I want to see on TML.<BR><BR>- --<BR>Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK<BR>Email&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; : mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>Website : www.mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 13:07:08 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: KB3, rule variations and other games<BR><BR>On Wed, 27 Dec 2000, Mark Preston wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Not that I dislike seeing games ideas - far from it - but the TML is<BR>&gt; supposed to be about Traveller, the game as it exists, and not about<BR>&gt; SF games in general or major rules changes. To be honest, I may well<BR>&gt; join a mailing list that _does_ deal with rules and rule systems - but<BR>&gt; that really isn't what I want to see on TML.<BR><BR>thanks, I was this far from starting a killfile.&nbsp; KB should have its own<BR>mailing list if it's going to generate THAT many posts.<BR><BR>Kiri&nbsp; ^_^<BR><BR>******************************************************************************<BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 93!&nbsp; Thou Art God<BR>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR><BR>"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>Desire is embraced in a dream..."&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- X-JAPAN<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 10:16:54 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: KB3 probabilities<BR><BR>Postmark Design Bureau wrote :<BR>&gt; Each character's abilities (shooting, riding, fighting, dodging,<BR>&gt; initiative) are a die - 1d4 for a low ability, up to 1d12<BR>&gt; (modifiers take this to 1d2 through 1d20) To resolve any action,<BR>&gt; the two players involved roll their dice.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Highest wins, IIRC the defender gets ties.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I was going to use this for some rules, until I did the sums. It turns out<BR>&gt; that higher abilities are nothing like as dominant as you might expect -<BR>&gt; 1d2 attacking 1d20 wins 2.5%, 1d20 attacking 1d2 fails 7.5%.<BR><BR>This is basically because single dice do not have bell curve probabilities,<BR>but flat probabilties, where each result is equally likely. The way to solve<BR>this problem in this sort of system is to roll at least two dice of each<BR>type and add them. You will then get a bell curve result, with it peaking at<BR>higher numbers for the larger dice, and giving you what you want from this<BR>sort of system.<BR><BR>&gt; So I thought that I'd let my computer crunch some nested loops and<BR>&gt; calculate a few probabilities.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The success probabilities for KB3, including the event die are:<BR>&gt; against static probabilities:<BR><BR>Well done, Phil. This is more like the sort of information we need to<BR>properly understand the system.<BR><BR>Doing a quick validation of your numbers has also helped me understand<BR>something about how the system works. I have now realized that stat has no<BR>effect on success or failure, somneing which was not obvious from the<BR>write-up.<BR><BR>From Ken's description, I thought the system required you to roll both over<BR>your difficulty number _and_ under your stat at the same time for a success.<BR>I now realize you can interpret his words in the way you have interpreted<BR>them, which provides a much more reasonable system, and is thus probably<BR>what he meant.<BR><BR>It does point out what might be considered a problem though, with skill 6<BR>and higher people having a better than even chance at succeeding at<BR>Impossible tasks. It depends on your definition of what the skill levels<BR>mean.<BR><BR>Also, there is the problem of people with higher skill values finding it far<BR>more difficult to<BR>achieve a great success at anything but high levels of difficulty.<BR><BR>I'd fix this by removing the "Sweet spot" concept (they don't work well with<BR>bell curves, as someone has already memtioned) , and merely measuring the<BR>difference between the roll and the target as the measure of success or<BR>failure<BR><BR>This unfortunately removes the usage of stats completely.<BR><BR>Instead, to get stats back into the system,I'd suggest using it as a direct<BR>modifier to the difficulty, though this will require modification of the<BR>base difficulty levels so that "Easy" is represented by&nbsp; 3 + average stat,<BR>for example.<BR><BR>Thus the process would be to take the difficulty, minus the stata, and then<BR>roll against the new difficulty. For someone with an average stats, this<BR>would mean no chanege to the existing&nbsp; probabilities. High stat people get<BR>lower difficulties, and low stat people get increased difficulties in<BR>relation to the existing system. Skill still controls average throw via<BR>number of dice.<BR><BR>Or you could make Easy be 3 + something larger than average stat if you<BR>wanted to make things more difficult.<BR><BR>This should still work with the random target number concept, but may<BR>require more dice for random target generation.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 22:20:54 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Aliens (was Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR><BR>At 19:29 -0500 25/12/00, "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;Vincent Ward, who is a damn good director (see "The Navigator" or "Vigil",<BR>&gt;the later being worthy of far greater praise than it has received to date.)<BR>&gt;had been promised creative control, and when the suits reneged he walked<BR>&gt;out, requesting that his name be removed from the film, leaving some hack to<BR>&gt;come in and take over in attempt to get the film finished.<BR><BR>That would be the same 'hack' who later directed 'Seven'?<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 22:30:30 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Star Worn? Comments<BR><BR>Hi all,<BR><BR>Just a Quickie - has anyone (beyond Megan) downloaded 'Star Worn', <BR>and are there any comments? I like having comments (good or bad) to <BR>pass back to Andy because it encourages him to do things like this <BR>again...<BR><BR>I know that 164 have visited since the adventure went up.....<BR><BR>Catch you later, and Happy Christmas,<BR><BR>Dom (now off to do the East Coast of the UK and Germany for the New Year).<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 12:26:21 +1300<BR>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: KB3, rule variations and other games<BR><BR>On 27 Dec 00, at 13:07, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; thanks, I was this far from starting a killfile.&nbsp; KB should have its own<BR>&gt; mailing list if it's going to generate THAT many posts.<BR><BR>Task wars (esp. KB ones) generate a lot of posts, but they usually tail off <BR>in a few days (or weeks for KB). I know that they are annoying for those <BR>(like me) who don't give a darn about the intricacies of 2d6, bell curves, <BR>skill vs stat, E-die etc (I'm a strong believer in a "that looks about right" <BR>variety of task system myself), but they do go away.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 17:46:19 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: KB3 probabilities<BR><BR>"Frank G. Pitt" wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Well done, Phil. This is more like the sort of information we need to<BR>&gt; properly understand the system.<BR><BR>Yes.&nbsp; Nice chart Phil.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; From Ken's description, I thought the system required you to roll both over<BR>&gt; your difficulty number _and_ under your stat at the same time for a success.<BR>&gt; I now realize you can interpret his words in the way you have interpreted<BR>&gt; them, which provides a much more reasonable system, and is thus probably<BR>&gt; what he meant.<BR><BR>Frank, I know we've had some words, so I just want to make it clear here that<BR>I'm not being combative.&nbsp; I just want to talk about the system and make sure the<BR>thing really works (I've always said it's in playtest--It seems to be in<BR>analysis too here on the TML, and that's a good thing.)<BR><BR>That said, I've been confident that the KB3 probabilitiy numbers add up nicely.<BR>The recently discovered problem with the system is in the way Greater Success is<BR>calculated.<BR><BR>If I change the way GS is figured, I believe we'll be back in business.<BR><BR>I have a few thoughts, but I want to play around with them first.&nbsp; There's more<BR>than one way to go about this.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; It does point out what might be considered a problem though, with skill 6<BR>&gt; and higher people having a better than even chance at succeeding at<BR>&gt; Impossible tasks. It depends on your definition of what the skill levels<BR>&gt; mean.<BR><BR>I can see this.&nbsp; For me, a Skill-6 is one of the highest you're going to see.&nbsp; I<BR>know 7+ skills occur, but very rarely.&nbsp; So, to me, a Skill-6 is about as good as<BR>most people see, and I really don't have a problem with someone that bad-ass in<BR>a single area of expertise having a 62% chance on an Impossible task.<BR><BR>I do see your point, though.&nbsp; Your preference is that it should be under 50%,<BR>and I can see that side of an argument.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Just for shits-n-grins, let's look at what chance a Stat-7, Skill-6 character<BR>has of rolling an Impossible task under the MT system.<BR><BR>Target number is 19+, and your mods bring this throw down to 12+.&nbsp; Your chance<BR>of success is just under 3%.<BR><BR>In some opinions, that's a pretty low figure for somebody who is about the best<BR>at an area of expertise that anybody is going to get.&nbsp; Under MT (with an average<BR>Stat-7), if you don't have a Skill-6, you can't even make an Impossible throw.<BR>If you have a Stat-10, you've got to have a Skill-5 to even make an Impossible<BR>throw.&nbsp; And, if your Stat is the Human Maxium (Stat-15), you've got to have a<BR>Skill-4 to make the throw.<BR><BR>This means that, if you have Skill-0, Skill-1, Skill-2, or Skill-3 (or even<BR>Skill-4, if you don't have Stat-15), you can't even make an Impossible<BR>throw--and even then, your chance of success is 3%.<BR><BR>Now, some people will look at this as a good thing and say, "Well, Impossible<BR>should be...er...well....Impossible", and this way of dicing certainly fits that<BR>description in my book.<BR><BR>Other people will look at their character sheets and see that they only have a<BR>couple skills that will allow them to make an Impossible throw and realize that,<BR>for all practicle purposes, given these game rules, most gamers will not be able<BR>to ever (or nearly ever) do the Impossible with their characters--and that's<BR>just not fun in gaming.<BR><BR><BR>I stand in the middle of this issue.&nbsp; I see both sides.&nbsp; Characters should be<BR>able to pull off the Impossible from time to time, but I don't think it should<BR>be real easy to do.&nbsp; This is why I'm happy with KB3's 62% at level 6.<BR><BR>I think taste will vary widely on this issue, and certainly not everyone will be<BR>pleased one way or the other.&nbsp; Some will vote for impossible-Impossible tasks.<BR>And some will vote for attainable but rare-Impossible tasks.<BR><BR><BR><BR>On the other side of this coin (along with KB3) is the T4 method.&nbsp; If you are<BR>Stat-7, Skill-6, you've got to roll below 13 on 4D.&nbsp; Your chance of success is<BR>44%.<BR><BR>It depends on your tastes.<BR><BR>KB3 puts an emphasis on Skills and rewards expertise by design.&nbsp; That's why the<BR>number is 62% instead of something very, very low like MT's 3%.<BR><BR>Again....it depends on your tastes.&nbsp; Do you want barely attainable Impossible<BR>tasks in your game?&nbsp; Or do you want your players to be able to pull off an<BR>Impossible task some of the time while you game?<BR><BR>It's whatever your game philosophy is.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; I'd fix this by removing the "Sweet spot" concept (they don't work well with<BR>&gt; bell curves, as someone has already memtioned) , and merely measuring the<BR>&gt; difference between the roll and the target as the measure of success or<BR>&gt; failure<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; This unfortunately removes the usage of stats completely.<BR><BR>You're right.&nbsp; The "sweet spot" concept may have to go (many people, including<BR>me, enjoy rolling as high as possible anyway), but in my opinion, it is<BR>imperative that Stat have an effect on the success or outcome of your task<BR>throw.<BR><BR>I'm working on it.<BR><BR>I'll post what I come up with, and we can disect it to see if it really works.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Instead, to get stats back into the system,I'd suggest using it as a direct<BR>&gt; modifier to the difficulty, though this will require modification of the<BR>&gt; base difficulty levels so that "Easy" is represented by&nbsp; 3 + average stat,<BR>&gt; for example.<BR><BR>This is the main concept I'm looking at right now.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Thus the process would be to take the difficulty, minus the stata, and then<BR>&gt; roll against the new difficulty.<BR><BR>This is exactly what I'm looking at.&nbsp; It's intuitive, and I've been playing<BR>around with this for a while (even before KB3 was created).&nbsp; I posted this idea<BR>a couple of days ago, and I can see that we are thinking in the same area.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; For someone with an average stats, this<BR>&gt; would mean no chanege to the existing&nbsp; probabilities. High stat people get<BR>&gt; lower difficulties, and low stat people get increased difficulties in<BR>&gt; relation to the existing system. Skill still controls average throw via<BR>&gt; number of dice.<BR><BR>Yes.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; This should still work with the random target number concept, but may<BR>&gt; require more dice for random target generation.<BR><BR>Yeah, I know about that too.&nbsp; Man, I hate to get rid of the 1D-6D straight<BR>random targets.&nbsp; It was so elegant and perfect for Trav.<BR><BR>Hmmm....<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3472<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-zb03.mx.aol.com (rly-zb03.mail.aol.com [172.31.41.3]) by air-zb04.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Wed, 27 Dec 2000 19:11:34 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-zb03.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Wed, 27 Dec 2000 19:11:00 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id SAA84575;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Wed, 27 Dec 2000 18:49:04 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Wed, 27 Dec 2000 18:48:18 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id SAA84397<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Wed, 27 Dec 2000 18:48:18 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 18:48:18 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012272348.SAA84397@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3472<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3473</B></TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Wednesday, December 27 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3473<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Low standards<BR>Re: Skills in CT (was Re: The Perfect 2d6 System)<BR>Re: Skills in CT (was Re: The Perfect 2d6 System)<BR>Re: Skills in CT<BR>Re: KB3, rule variations and other games<BR>Re: KB3, rule variations and other games<BR>Re: MT ability modifiers<BR>Re: MT ability modifiers<BR>Re: The Perfect 2D System (To beat the unbeatable roll, to...<BR>Re: Using KB3 with CT<BR>Re: the perfect 2d system (next on the list, just after we find the Holy&nbsp; Grail)<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re : Health Care in the US (was : Re : Naming Laws)<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: Star Worn? Comments<BR>RE: Aliens (was Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR>RE: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>The Hostile Stars (was: Re: Freelance Traveller Updated)<BR>re: Star Worn? Comments<BR>re: KB3, rule variations and other games<BR>Re: Star Worn? Comments<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 16:31:54 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>On 12/24/00 at 10:03 AM,&nbsp; Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;On Fri, 22 Dec 2000 eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; All of you seem to see Lucan as a big, strong, good-looking guy. I see<BR>&gt;&gt; him as a ugly little weasel of a man as twisted on the outside as he<BR>&gt;&gt; is on the inside.<BR><BR>&gt;"Now is the winter of our discontent..." <BR><BR>Yes, that about covers it. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;Ok, how about we get Steve Buscemi to play Lucan...though Michael<BR>&gt;Madsen (Reservoir Dogs) has the requisite creepy psychopath bit<BR>&gt;down pat.<BR><BR>I don't know the actors or the film, but I'll be happy to take your word for it.<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 17:24:06 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Skills in CT (was Re: The Perfect 2d6 System)<BR><BR>On 12/25/00 at 12:09 AM,&nbsp; shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson) said:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; To put this squarely in CT rules* terms, where do the faithful<BR>&gt;draw the line with skill levels getting silly? Assuming book 4-8<BR>&gt;chargen, do you expect to have to have a resolution _system_ to<BR>&gt;cover characters with skill levels of 4+? Or 5+? <BR><BR>In CT terms, I'm not "faithful", but fairly, I think 4 or 5 is about the top end of skills you'll normally see from book 4-8 chargen.&nbsp; I've seen a few 6's and I once had a player roll a 7 on something, can't remember what, but that was once in 20 years. <BR><BR>I think a good resolution system should handle *any* skill levels, but should handle *well* skills from 0 to 4 because it's 0 to 4 where almost all skills will be.<BR><BR>The one I'm using in RDeep *does* this, and it's CT all the way. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 17:29:59 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Skills in CT (was Re: The Perfect 2d6 System)<BR><BR>On 12/26/00 at 01:32 AM,&nbsp; Postmark Design Bureau &lt;postmark.design@btinternet.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; I'd say, as a general rule of thumb, CT skills range from 0-6, with 7+<BR>&gt;&gt; occurring only very, very, very rarely.<BR><BR>&gt;Supplement 1 "1001 Characters"<BR><BR>&gt;Other 24 has electronic-8<BR><BR>&gt;Supplement 4 "Citizens of the Imperium"<BR><BR>&gt;Scientist 19 Computer-8.<BR><BR>&gt;There are several Bureaucrats with Admin-7 and it is possible to<BR>&gt;have Admin-10 or better if you really want (since Admin is 50% on<BR>&gt;the Bureaucrat Advanced Education Table.<BR><BR>Yeah, but did you ever *roll* one in CT? Looking at COI, it does look like you could be pretty high in Admin for Bureaucrats and I know you can in Doctor (that's where the one 7 was I've seen rolled), but this sort of thing is going to be really, really rare.<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;Players can abuse T4 and the draft T5 more, since they don't<BR>&gt;mandate rolling skills and the universities* tend to give lots of<BR>&gt;levels in a single skill.<BR><BR>T4/T5 is a different story. Skills can get a lot higher there. I've created T4 characters with a skill of 8 in their "speciality" and a 6 or two isn't uncommon.<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 17:46:08 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Skills in CT<BR><BR>On 12/26/00 at 11:22 PM,&nbsp; shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson) said:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; Let's say we wanted a skill system the way the ghods^h^h Mr.<BR>&gt;Miller wanted it - in CT, that is - would the MT system with the<BR>&gt;difficulty numbers reduced by 1 or 2 to allow for the sinful<BR>&gt;reliance on stat numbers work well enough? Screwing up the easiest<BR>&gt;things merely&nbsp; requires that you have no skill - sounds fair to me<BR>&gt;:&gt;<BR><BR>Okay, here are two...&lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>- --- Skills and Stats don't add ---<BR><BR>1.&nbsp; Stats are rated as Stat/3 for task purposes and used just like<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; skills.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>2.&nbsp; Skills are rolled for as in Books 4-8&nbsp; &nbsp; <BR><BR>3.&nbsp; Choose a Task Difficulty from the following table (basic combat<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; is 8+, many tasks should be Average or Routine)<BR><BR>&nbsp; 2&nbsp; Automatic<BR>&nbsp; 3&nbsp; Very Easy<BR>&nbsp; 4&nbsp; Easy<BR>&nbsp; 5&nbsp; Very Routine<BR>&nbsp; 6&nbsp; Routine<BR>&nbsp; 7&nbsp; Average<BR>&nbsp; 8&nbsp; Difficult<BR>&nbsp; 9&nbsp; Very Difficult<BR>10&nbsp; Formidable<BR>11&nbsp; Very Formidable<BR>12&nbsp; Staggering<BR>13&nbsp; Very Staggering<BR>14&nbsp; Hopeless<BR>15&nbsp; Very Hopeless<BR>16&nbsp; Impossible<BR><BR>4.&nbsp; Roll 2d6+(Skill or Stat/3)* &gt;= Difficulty Level<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; *note this is either Skill OR Stat, as determined by the Ref,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; not both<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; <BR><BR>- ---Skills and Stats do add---<BR><BR>1.&nbsp; Stats are rated for task purposes as Stat/3 and are used like<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; skills<BR><BR>2.&nbsp; Skills are rolled as per MT chargen<BR><BR>3.&nbsp; Choose a Difficulty from the following table<BR><BR>&nbsp; 3 Easy<BR>&nbsp; 6 Routine<BR>&nbsp; 9 Average<BR>12 Difficult<BR>15 Formidable<BR>18 Staggering<BR>21 Hopeless<BR>24 Impossible<BR><BR>4. Roll 2d6+(Skill + Stat)* GE Difficulty Level<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; *note the task may call for (Skill + Skill) or (Stat + Stat)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; rather than (Skill + Stat)<BR><BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 17:50:04 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: KB3, rule variations and other games<BR><BR>Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Task wars (esp. KB ones) generate a lot of posts, but they usually tail off<BR>&gt; in a few days (or weeks for KB). I know that they are annoying for those<BR>&gt; (like me) who don't give a darn about the intricacies of 2d6, bell curves,<BR>&gt; skill vs stat, E-die etc (I'm a strong believer in a "that looks about right"<BR>&gt; variety of task system myself), but they do go away.<BR><BR>Mainly because coming up with the perfect Traveller mechanic, that uses the full<BR>advantage of a Stat range of 2-15 and an open ended Skill range that runs 1-6+,<BR>all using D6 is hard work!<BR><BR>It tends to burn people out (me included).<BR><BR>:-&gt;<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 23:51:36 GMT<BR>From: Postmark Design Bureau &lt;postmark.design@btinternet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: KB3, rule variations and other games<BR><BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; On Wed, 27 Dec 2000, Mark Preston wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Not that I dislike seeing games ideas - far from it - but the TML is<BR>&gt; &gt; supposed to be about Traveller, the game as it exists, and not about<BR>&gt; &gt; SF games in general or major rules changes. To be honest, I may well<BR>&gt; &gt; join a mailing list that _does_ deal with rules and rule systems - but<BR>&gt; &gt; that really isn't what I want to see on TML.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; thanks, I was this far from starting a killfile.&nbsp; KB should have its own<BR>&gt; mailing list if it's going to generate THAT many posts.<BR><BR>Hey, I make this only the 116th message inspired by Ken's task system!<BR><BR>Some quite long, I'll admit.<BR><BR>It looks like a traditional TML new year - thousands of messages awaiting<BR>the unwary when they get email back in a week or so.<BR><BR>However, whilst anyone is entitled to use killfiles to tailor their view<BR>of the TML, I don't think that KB3 needs to be a separate mailing list.<BR><BR>I doubt the message rate will continue for long and it certainly isn't<BR>as off topic as some of the things I've skipped through this past year.<BR><BR>(The 60 odd messages on naming laws come to mind.)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Phil Kitching, http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo<BR>Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Products Division<BR>"Microwaving halfbaked ideas from across the galaxy"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 18:02:44 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: MT ability modifiers<BR><BR>On 12/27/00 at 07:00 PM,&nbsp; Postmark Design Bureau &lt;postmark.design@btinternet.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;I've never used MT but the comments to the effect that<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; "dividing by 5 is such hard work"<BR><BR>&gt;prompted a thought:<BR><BR>&gt;surely no one actually does long division of their ability score by<BR>&gt;5?<BR><BR>You'd be surprised then.<BR><BR>&gt;I'd have thought that a mental "if test" along the lines of:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; "double digit ability, +2, high single digit ability of 5+, +1"<BR><BR>&gt;Ok, so abilities of 15+ have a +3 modifier but they aren't common<BR>&gt;Str, Dex, End scores, so they aren't reduced in combat.*<BR><BR>Frankly, the /5 was never my problem with MT.&nbsp; I could pull the<BR>quotient from Stat/5 out of my head without much thought.&nbsp; I didn't<BR>like how "grainy" the Stats were, effectively 0 to 2, and I didn't<BR>like the actual target numbers.&nbsp; I don't care what anybody says<BR>3/7/11/15/19 are NOT intuitive, not to me anyway.&nbsp; I would have been<BR>much happier with 4/8/12/16/20...heck I'd have been estatic!&nbsp; &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Personally, I think the "MT by 3" system is the best of the hybrid<BR>systems I've seen.&nbsp; Everything is by 3's, Stat/3 and Difficulty<BR>levels increase from 3 by 3.&nbsp; For me that's easy to remember, easy<BR>to use.<BR><BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 19:09:59 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: MT ability modifiers<BR><BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;surely no one actually does long division of their ability score by<BR>&gt; &gt;5?<BR><BR>Naw, it's not hard.&nbsp; Just a little awkward...not very elegant game design.<BR><BR>It's easy to remember that you don't get a bonus at 4 or less, at 5-9 you get a +1, at<BR>10-14 you get a +2, at 15 you get a +3.<BR><BR>It's just not "good" numbers, that's all.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Personally, I think the "MT by 3" system is the best of the hybrid<BR>&gt; systems I've seen.&nbsp; Everything is by 3's, Stat/3 and Difficulty<BR>&gt; levels increase from 3 by 3.&nbsp; For me that's easy to remember, easy<BR>&gt; to use.<BR><BR>I agree, Eris.&nbsp; This line of thinking lends itself better to more elegant, more streamlined<BR>game design.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 19:11:16 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2D System (To beat the unbeatable roll, to...<BR><BR>On 12/26/00 at 10:03 PM,&nbsp; shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson) said:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; I still don't see where the unhealthy focus on stats cam from, <BR><BR>Well, Steven I always got complaints from the Stat 10+ folks that<BR>their "high INT, EDU, or whatever" should help them more than it<BR>did.&nbsp; The DGP system seemed to vindicate their complaints.&nbsp; I<BR>suspect many Traveller Refs migrated to DGP and then MT pretty<BR>naturally.&nbsp; I don't mind a little Stat included if it makes the<BR>players happy..heck, I'm not looking for a *simulation* when I play,<BR>I'm looking to have some fun.<BR><BR>&gt;although I guess some direct use for Int &amp; Edu is needed after<BR>&gt;chargen...<BR><BR>Yeah, I guess...but for what?&nbsp; &lt;g&gt; <BR><BR>IAC you're going to be stuck with roll low on Stats unless you do<BR>some sort of "divide by bit."<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 19:00:15 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Using KB3 with CT<BR><BR>On 12/26/00 at 05:52 PM,&nbsp; Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;For example, CT does not have a rule for making attribute checks. <BR>&gt;Say your character is on a shoddy cat-walk and the ship lurches. <BR>&gt;The GM needs a check based on Dex to see if your character toppled<BR>&gt;over the railing.<BR><BR>&gt;How do you do this with CT rules as written?<BR><BR>&gt;You don't do it, because CT rules don't cover things like this<BR><BR>Oh, come on Ken!&nbsp; &lt;g&gt; Sure you could, the Ref just says "Roll below<BR>your DEX, or DEX-3, or something."&nbsp; It was an ad-hoc system, but<BR>fudging it worked just fine.&nbsp; Having a specific rule isn't required,<BR>nice maybe, but not required.<BR><BR>&gt;--and<BR>&gt;this is where KB3 comes in.&nbsp; It's a simple mechanic to govern these<BR>&gt;situations.&nbsp; You could use the KB3 attribute roll.<BR><BR>Which is nice, but not required...you must admit. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;Another example:&nbsp; Let's say you're playing a CT game and your<BR>&gt;character comes across some old, dusty rifles that he found while<BR>&gt;searching through a closet in a hidden Zhodani base.&nbsp; The player<BR>&gt;wants to know if he can use his character's Rifle skill to learn<BR>&gt;more about the condition of the rifles beyond the GM's description<BR>&gt;that they are "old and dusty".<BR><BR>&gt;In CT, the GM would have to come up with something on the fly. <BR><BR>Correct.<BR><BR>&gt;There are no rules in CT to cover this type of situation (becasue<BR>&gt;CT does not have a task system).<BR><BR>Well, it does have an ad-hoc system for skills called "make it up<BR>and roll high on 2d6." <BR><BR>&gt;KB3 is a method the GM can use to make his life easier in these<BR>&gt;situations.&nbsp; The GM decides that it is an Average difficulty for a<BR>&gt;person who knows something about weapons to evalute their<BR>&gt;condition.&nbsp; And, given this, the player needs to roll a KB3 task<BR>&gt;roll, using the character's Rifle skill, based on Edu.<BR><BR>&gt;Waalaa.&nbsp; You've got a consistent, easy to use, easy to implement<BR>&gt;mechanic you can drop into CT when you need it.<BR><BR>Yes, a system like KB3 (or MT, T4, KB2, etc) does make things<BR>easier...if you don't get anal about it.&nbsp; Sometimes, "make it up"<BR>still works best.<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 18:23:28 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: the perfect 2d system (next on the list, just after we find the Holy&nbsp; Grail)<BR><BR>On 12/24/00 at 05:07 PM,&nbsp; Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;Katharine Whitchurch wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; No it's not.&nbsp; Lets look at an example - a mechanic fixing a car.<BR>&gt;&gt; Does it really matter how smart the mechanic is ?&nbsp; Or is what<BR>&gt;&gt; matters how experienced they are ?&nbsp; I'll go for the really dumb<BR>&gt;&gt; guy who's been doing it for 20 years<BR><BR>&gt;Really?<BR><BR>&gt;Would you go to a really dumb doctor who's been doing it for 20<BR>&gt;years over a brilliant young new specialist who just graduated at<BR>&gt;the top of his class from the Harvard Medical School?<BR><BR>I don't think I can participate as much as I'd like on this.&nbsp; First<BR>I'm out of town and offline 2 days when this hits and then I get<BR>sick and miss another day due to that. Rats!<BR><BR>I'd like to make a point here, though. <BR><BR>Skill can be seen as being more than *just* the experience a PC has<BR>had.&nbsp; It can be a combination of experience and natural ability in<BR>that area.&nbsp; Thus, a Medical-4 could represent how experienced *and*<BR>how intellegent, dexterious, and educated (in medical terms only) a<BR>character is.<BR><BR>&gt;Experience counts (skill level).<BR>&gt;So does a person's natural ability (stats).<BR><BR>&gt;You need both to influence success--not just one or the other.<BR><BR>And you can have both in a single value...the Skill.&nbsp; I'll use a<BR>somewhat silly example of Groo the Wanderer.&nbsp; The concpet behind<BR>Groo is that he is a GREAT swordsman, but he is in all other<BR>respects clumsy, I would give Groo a Sword-5 and Dex 4 .&nbsp; For<BR>swordplay the figure that is used would be Sword-5 to represent his<BR>training *and* ability.&nbsp; For all other cases that call for dexterity<BR>I'd use the very low 4.<BR><BR>See what I mean?<BR><BR>OTOH, if you *want* to add Stat + Skill then I think I'd come down<BR>somewhere around 2/3 skill, 1/3 stat.<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 19:39:33 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>On 12/24/00 at 10:55 AM,&nbsp; Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;Timothy Little wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; I'm still not quite sure why you think 2D systems are inherently<BR>&gt;&gt; different from variable-D systems.<BR><BR>&gt;What I am saying is this:<BR><BR>&gt;With a 2D system such as CT or MT, you have an abstract game<BR>&gt;mechanic of a 2D roll.&nbsp; Nothing about the character creates this<BR>&gt;roll for you--everybody gets the roll.&nbsp; It is common across the<BR>&gt;board.&nbsp; Success is equal for every character no matter his<BR>&gt;abilities or skills.<BR><BR>Ken, I don't see it that way.&nbsp; The 2d is the randomness or<BR>variability in the system.&nbsp; The target number and the Dm's are the<BR>factors that skew the mean of the curve.&nbsp; It's not layed out that<BR>way, but that's how I see it.<BR><BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 18:22:41 -0800<BR>From: "David P. Summers" &lt;summers@alum.mit.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re : Health Care in the US (was : Re : Naming Laws)<BR><BR>At 9:22 PM +1100 12/27/00, Robert O'Connor wrote:<BR>&gt;David Summers wrote :-<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Just for the record, if you are sick enough to require hospitalization,<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; there are hospitals that will give care without regard to the ability<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; to pay.&nbsp; The issue is mostly relevant to the issue of preventive care<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; and general health.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;This is true. However, the hospitals you refer to are funded out of<BR>&gt;state and federal Medicaid budgets. Things often become difficult in the<BR>&gt;second half of the financial year, sometimes earlier. First-world health<BR>&gt;care is expensive.<BR><BR>The point isn't that aren't problems.&nbsp; I just want to clarify<BR>the point.<BR><BR>______________________________<BR>summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>(This is the net.&nbsp; My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 20:29:52 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>On 12/26/00 at 09:34 AM,&nbsp; Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; As I have already suggested, if you don't like the weight between<BR>&gt;&gt; stat and skill of just adding them together, then change it.<BR><BR>&gt;I did!&nbsp; Take a look at KB2.0 listed on the Freelance Traveller site<BR>&gt;from four years ago!<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Double the skill.&nbsp; Average stat &amp; skill.&nbsp; Do both.&nbsp; Use more<BR>&gt;&gt; dice.&nbsp; There a numerous ways of doing this, and none of them<BR>&gt;&gt; change the base systems any more than requirement 2 already has<BR>&gt;&gt; done.<BR><BR>&gt;You can do that.&nbsp; But KB3 is a better choice for obvious reasons.<BR><BR>Ken, to be honest, I just don't see the obvious reasons that KB3 is<BR>better than KB2.&nbsp; To my mind, KB2 (or a variation there on) is much<BR>easier to *use* and easier to use is a big part of the game. <BR><BR>KB3 is an interesting concept, but it's just not grabbing me yet.<BR><BR>Eris<BR><BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 21:31:46 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Star Worn? Comments<BR><BR>At 10:30 PM +0000 12/27/00, Dominic Mooney wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Just a Quickie - has anyone (beyond Megan) downloaded 'Star Worn', <BR>&gt;and are there any comments? I like having comments (good or bad) to <BR>&gt;pass back to Andy because it encourages him to do things like this <BR>&gt;again...<BR><BR>Yup, I read it, briefly wished for a gaming group to inflict it on, <BR>and laughed out loud several times.&nbsp; Great fun, and please pass along <BR>my encouragement, for what it's worth!<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 21:33:46 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Aliens (was Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR><BR>At 10:20 PM +0000 12/27/00, Dominic Mooney wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;At 19:29 -0500 25/12/00, "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;had been promised creative control, and when the suits reneged he walked<BR>&gt;&gt;out, requesting that his name be removed from the film, leaving some hack to<BR>&gt;&gt;come in and take over in attempt to get the film finished.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;That would be the same 'hack' who later directed 'Seven'?<BR><BR>Yup.&nbsp; David Fincher, I think is the name?&nbsp; I gather A3 was his first <BR>film after a career in music videos -- which we shouldn't hold <BR>against him, really, given how Alien (1) was Ridley Scott's first <BR>film coming out of TV commercials.&nbsp; In the '70s, no less.<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 20:40:20 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: RE: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>On 12/26/00 at 05:06 PM,&nbsp; shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson) said:<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; BTW, that's another point in favour of single die (d20) - at<BR>&gt;least in wargames, where the effects of target size modifiers (e.g.<BR>&gt;Striker, 2d6 for 12+ at Extreme range, but target is +2 size...)<BR>&gt;can really warp the heck out of your bell-curves "expected"<BR>&gt;results.<BR><BR>Are you sure you aren't a secret admirer of TNE? &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 22:33:21 -0500<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: The Hostile Stars (was: Re: Freelance Traveller Updated)<BR><BR>On Wed, 27 Dec 2000 18:48:18 -0500 (EST), "VonRammen"<BR>&lt;von_rammen@email.msn.com&gt; wrote;<BR><BR>&gt;"Michael A. Hoxie" &lt;ludowick@juno.com&gt; writes:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;I *really* like this serial story.&nbsp; Big congrats to Fred Ramen.&nbsp; Very<BR>&gt;creative, well written, and suspensful.<BR><BR>&gt;Ludowick&lt;&lt;<BR><BR>&gt;Thank you, sir. I've had fun writing it. And I promise that the sequel will<BR>&gt;include 50% more canonical information!<BR><BR>&lt;voice class="small child hoping for something good"&gt;<BR>Does that mean 50% longer, too?<BR>&lt;/voice&gt;<BR><BR>Incidentally, Fred, you never responded to my proposal re: release after<BR>all parts are up.&nbsp; Let me know?<BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>(Ask me via email about the ILink message network!)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 19:36:26 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: re: Star Worn? Comments<BR><BR>&gt;From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Star Worn? Comments<BR>...<BR>&gt;Just a Quickie - has anyone (beyond Megan) downloaded 'Star Worn', <BR>&gt;and are there any comments? I like having comments (good or bad) to <BR>&gt;pass back to Andy because it encourages him to do things like this <BR>&gt;again...<BR><BR>&nbsp; I'd read it by the 25th - amusing. I'm a bit too serious to _run_<BR>it, but I was tempted...<BR><BR>&nbsp; ... I did, however, pass along the URL to all sorts of SF fans :)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 19:47:08 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: re: KB3, rule variations and other games<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Mark Preston" &lt;mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: KB3, rule variations and other games<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Not that I dislike seeing games ideas - far from it - but the TML is<BR>&gt;supposed to be about Traveller, the game as it exists, and not about<BR>&gt;SF games in general or major rules changes. To be honest, I may well<BR>&gt;join a mailing list that _does_ deal with rules and rule systems - but<BR>&gt;that really isn't what I want to see on TML.<BR><BR>&nbsp; CT has _rules_?! Asides from High Guard &amp; Striker, that is? I thot<BR>that everything else was just guidelines? :)<BR><BR>&nbsp; Seriously, ideas about simple alternate (skill) systems for CT <BR>strikes me as being darned useful - but then I consider MT to be<BR>carelessly haphazard at best, if not downright heretical :&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Steven Hudson<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 21:49:25 -0600<BR>From: "Pat Connaughton" &lt;patconnaughton@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Star Worn? Comments<BR><BR>Dom, Happy Holidays et al<BR><BR>Sorry, I missed mention of "Star Worn"<BR>Where's it stored?<BR><BR>Thanks and talk to you soon<BR>Pat Connaughton<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 4:30 PM<BR>Subject: Star Worn? Comments<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Hi all,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Just a Quickie - has anyone (beyond Megan) downloaded 'Star Worn',<BR>&gt; and are there any comments? I like having comments (good or bad) to<BR>&gt; pass back to Andy because it encourages him to do things like this<BR>&gt; again...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I know that 164 have visited since the adventure went up.....<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Catch you later, and Happy Christmas,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Dom (now off to do the East Coast of the UK and Germany for the New Year).<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3473<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yc04.mx.aol.com (rly-yc04.mail.aol.com [172.18.149.36]) by air-yc05.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Wed, 27 Dec 2000 23:01:05 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yc04.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Wed, 27 Dec 2000 23:00:29 1900<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id WAA04694;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Wed, 27 Dec 2000 22:52:34 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Wed, 27 Dec 2000 22:52:14 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id WAA04648<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Wed, 27 Dec 2000 22:52:14 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 22:52:14 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012280352.WAA04648@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3473<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Thursday, December 28 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3474<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: MT ability modifiers<BR>RE: Star Worn? Comments<BR>Re: the perfect 2d system (next on the list, just after we find the Holy&nbsp; Grail)<BR>Re: the perfect 2d system (next on the list, just after we find the Holy&nbsp; Grail)<BR>Re: Skills in CT<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>Re: Jump emergence<BR>Re: Skills in CT<BR>RE: Aliens (was Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR>Re: Their is no perfect 2d6 system, but this one is reasonable<BR>RE: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: Skills in CT<BR>Re: The Perfect 2D System<BR>Re: Skills in CT <BR>Re: the perfect 2d system<BR>Re: Star Worn? Comments<BR>Re: Skills in CT<BR>How long does a Jump take?<BR>Re: Skills in CT<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 22:34:32 -0600<BR>From: David Smart &lt;dsmart@imagin.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: MT ability modifiers<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden posted:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>&lt;snip&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Personally, I think the "MT by 3" system is the best of the hybrid<BR>&gt; &gt; systems I've seen.&nbsp; Everything is by 3's, Stat/3 and Difficulty<BR>&gt; &gt; levels increase from 3 by 3.&nbsp; For me that's easy to remember, easy<BR>&gt; &gt; to use.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I agree, Eris.&nbsp; This line of thinking lends itself better to more elegant, more streamlined<BR>&gt; game design.<BR><BR>Same here. I've used the "MT by 3" system ever since MT's<BR>first printing<BR>and it's worked alot better for both my players and me than<BR>the /5 system.<BR><BR>David<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 18:19:59 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Star Worn? Comments<BR><BR>Dominic Mooney wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Just a Quickie - has anyone (beyond Megan) downloaded 'Star Worn',<BR>&gt; and are there any comments? I like having comments (good or bad) to<BR>&gt; pass back to Andy because it encourages him to do things like this<BR>&gt; again...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I know that 164 have visited since the adventure went up.....<BR><BR>Yep, I grabbed it as soon as it went up. Great fun, I plan to run at the<BR>next local RPG convention in about a month.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 00:30:21 EST<BR>From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: the perfect 2d system (next on the list, just after we find the Holy&nbsp; Grail)<BR><BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net types:<BR><BR>&gt;OTOH, if you *want* to add Stat + Skill then I think I'd come down<BR>&gt;somewhere around 2/3 skill, 1/3 stat.<BR><BR>By this do you mean that you want, on average, the skill modifiers to be <BR>twice the stat modifiers? If so then CT and MT are already there for the most <BR>part, at least in the areas a character is most skilled in. Your average <BR>character will often have one or two skill-2's and a bunch of skill-1's, with <BR>his attributes giving either no bonus or +1.<BR><BR>On 2d6 with average character modifiers on the roll of +0 to +3, with <BR>extreme cases reaching +8 or more, works just fine for me.<BR><BR>I could rant further (and have already erased two different rants), but I <BR>won't.<BR><BR>GC<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 00:11:50 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: the perfect 2d system (next on the list, just after we find the Holy&nbsp; Grail)<BR><BR>On 12/28/00 at 12:30 AM,&nbsp; GypsyComet@aol.com said:<BR><BR>&gt;eris@pcola.gulf.net types:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;OTOH, if you *want* to add Stat + Skill then I think I'd come down<BR>&gt;&gt;somewhere around 2/3 skill, 1/3 stat.<BR><BR>&gt; By this do you mean that you want, on average, the skill modifiers<BR>&gt;to be&nbsp; twice the stat modifiers? <BR><BR>Yes, or there abouts.<BR><BR>&gt;If so then CT and MT are already there for the most part, at least<BR>&gt;in the areas a character is most skilled in.&nbsp; <BR><BR>I know. &lt;g&gt; <BR><BR>&gt;Your average character will often have one or two skill-2's and a<BR>&gt;bunch of skill-1's, with his attributes giving either no bonus or<BR>&gt;+1.<BR><BR>To be honest, I like to see skills a bit higher than that, but with<BR>CT (even B4-8) as written the numbers you give are about right.<BR><BR>I sort of like to see skills go something like this..<BR><BR>Beginner&nbsp;&nbsp; Level-0&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; xxxxxx<BR>Competent&nbsp; Level-1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; xxxxx<BR>Good&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Level-2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; xxxx<BR>Great&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Level-3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; xxx<BR>Superb&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Level-4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; xx<BR>Awesome&nbsp; &nbsp; Level-5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; x <BR>Legendary&nbsp; Level-6+&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; x<BR><BR>With the x's representing the *relative* likelyhood of the PC having<BR>that level.&nbsp; Maybe, on average something like:&nbsp; &gt;1 skill at 5+; 1 or<BR>2 skills at 4; 2 or 3 skills at 3; 3 or 4 skills at 2; 4 or 5 skills<BR>at 1; and 5 or 6 skills at 0.&nbsp; Grand total of around 25 levels. <BR><BR>&gt; On 2d6 with average character modifiers on the roll of +0 to +3,<BR>&gt;with&nbsp; extreme cases reaching +8 or more, works just fine for me.<BR><BR>Even with my skill figures, my DM's don't vary much from yours.&nbsp; In<BR>fact, mine might be lower than yours given I don't add the stat to<BR>the skill.<BR><BR>&gt; I could rant further (and have already erased two different<BR>&gt;rants), but I&nbsp; won't.<BR><BR>Gee, if *that* was a rant you can rant all day! &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 17:25:17 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Skills in CT<BR><BR>Michael A. Hoxie wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The Referee has to challenge such characters with *very* difficult<BR>&gt; tasks, with lots of negative DMs (put the James Bond type into the<BR>&gt; James Bond type of predicament).<BR><BR>The big difference being that James Bond never seems to fail whenever<BR>there is any chance of success.&nbsp; If you want James Bond type<BR>characters, don't roll dice.&nbsp; Put them into impossible predicaments,<BR>sure.&nbsp; But if you make them roll dice, don't be surprised when they<BR>fail the second near-impossible situation and the character dies.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 17:27:31 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>Steven Hudson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; BTW, that's another point in favour of single die (d20) - at least<BR>&gt; in wargames, where the effects of target size modifiers<BR>&gt; (e.g. Striker, 2d6 for 12+ at Extreme range, but target is +2<BR>&gt; size...) can really warp the heck out of your bell-curves "expected"<BR>&gt; results.<BR><BR>You'd expect to be able to hit bigger things at longer ranges.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 17:33:41 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>Matthew Bond wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Doesn't this render the concept of neutrino sensors redundant as per<BR>&gt; conventional traveller anyway? after all, they are canonically used<BR>&gt; to *detect* fusion power plants...<BR><BR>Sure, you can detect the fusion plant.&nbsp; You can also detect every star<BR>within 100 million light years.<BR><BR>To separate the fusion plants from the stars would be a very difficult<BR>task.&nbsp; <BR><BR><BR>&gt; Actually, ISTR reading somewhere that even speculating massive<BR>&gt; increases in detection capability, any controlled artificial source<BR>&gt; of neutrinos would be swamped by background neutrino emissions from<BR>&gt; stellar sources...<BR><BR>That would be me :^)<BR><BR>Think of every sunlike star as a 300 000 000 000 000 000 000 MW fusion<BR>reactor, and maybe you see the problem in looking for the microscopic<BR>reactors used in starships.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 17:46:09 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence<BR><BR>Thom Jones-Low wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; T = G * M / r^3<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; This formula is not quite correct. It is a good<BR>&gt; approximation. A more exact one is:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; T = (-2 * G * M * m / r^3) (h)<BR><BR>Um, they are different formulas, for different things.&nbsp; The first<BR>gives a good indication of the stress or curvature of spacetime.<BR><BR>Yours gives the stress experienced in an object, although it<BR>completely neglects orientation and density distribution.&nbsp; The jump<BR>limit probably should be independent of the ship making the jump to at<BR>least a first-order approximation, which is why I think tidal<BR>curvature is a good bet.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; For most calculations both m and h are small enough to be ignored.<BR><BR>Umm, for trivial m and h your formula gives a stress of zero.&nbsp; They<BR>can hardly be ignored.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; For Gas Giants, the safe limit is between 60 and 80 diameters. For<BR>&gt; planets between 80 and 105 diameters. For most stars, the distance is<BR>&gt; under 1 AU.<BR><BR>At least the end result is similar.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 00:52:50 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Skills in CT<BR><BR>On 12/28/00 at 05:25 PM,&nbsp; Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;Michael A. Hoxie wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; The Referee has to challenge such characters with *very* difficult<BR>&gt;&gt; tasks, with lots of negative DMs (put the James Bond type into the<BR>&gt;&gt; James Bond type of predicament).<BR><BR>&gt;The big difference being that James Bond never seems to fail<BR>&gt;whenever there is any chance of success.&nbsp; If you want James Bond<BR>&gt;type characters, don't roll dice.&nbsp; Put them into impossible<BR>&gt;predicaments, sure.&nbsp; But if you make them roll dice, don't be<BR>&gt;surprised when they fail the second near-impossible situation and<BR>&gt;the character dies.<BR><BR>Or make sure you understand that failure is a relative thing.&nbsp; <BR><BR>For JB, a failure might mean that the champaign cork he pops off<BR>doesn't hit the villian hiding behind the curtain in the eye, but<BR>instead only startles him into showing himself.&nbsp; If JB is jumping<BR>from a moving train to an automobile, success means landing in the<BR>passenger seat, legs crossed with his hair unmussed, failure might<BR>mean he lands in the back seat in an awkward position and critical<BR>failure means he lands on the hood and actually gets his hair messed<BR>up crawling over the windsheild.&nbsp; &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>And when it comes to real failure, well if I was running a game with<BR>James Bond type characters, then they simply *wouldn't* fail...not<BR>unless the plot depended on it and then only in the ways that Bond<BR>might fail..ie. being captured so he can wreak the evil doers plans<BR>and then escape in the nick of time.<BR><BR>The Ob Traveller is that task systems may come and go, but the Ref's<BR>judgement remains the key to having a fun game.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 09:14:40 -0000<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Aliens (was Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Kenji Schwarz [mailto:schwarz@fas.harvard.edu]<BR>&gt; Sent: 28 December 2000 02:34<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Cc: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Aliens (was Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; At 10:20 PM +0000 12/27/00, Dominic Mooney wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;At 19:29 -0500 25/12/00, "Frank G. Pitt" <BR>&gt; &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;had been promised creative control, and when the suits <BR>&gt; reneged he walked<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;out, requesting that his name be removed from the film, <BR>&gt; leaving some hack to<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;come in and take over in attempt to get the film finished.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;That would be the same 'hack' who later directed 'Seven'?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Yup.&nbsp; David Fincher, I think is the name? <BR><BR>That's right. Coincidentally, I picked up Seven on DVD last night. Quite<BR>good, but a rather poor choice of location for the level switch (right in<BR>the middle of a chase scene).<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 02:34:20 +1100<BR>From: "Katharine Whitchurch" &lt;katts@globalfreeway.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Their is no perfect 2d6 system, but this one is reasonable<BR><BR>&gt; From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; So, for those looking solely at Book 1, how simple can a CT<BR>&gt; skill (/task) system retrofit be made? Use of stats is optional :)<BR><BR>Here it is ... another TLA skill system - superiour to it's competitors on<BR>the grounds it involves 2 dice, and is Much Much Shorter. It is unashamedly<BR>biased to skills over stats.<BR><BR>IW2<BR><BR>Roll under a target number is a 16 for Simple (skill 0 required), a 12 for<BR>Easy (1),<BR>a 8 for Average(2), a 4 for Hard(3) and a 0 for Impossible(4). Roll 2 dice,<BR>plus one dice for every skill level you are missing for the difficulty. Add<BR>your skill level to the target number, and get a further -1 to your roll if<BR>the appropriate stat is 4-, +1 if it is 8+ and a +2 if it is 13+. Time<BR>pressure, tools and lack thereof can all give modifiers to skill (remember<BR>that this may impact on the number of dice). Make the roll by 4, and it's a<BR>Special Success. Blow it by more than (double your skill level) and it's a<BR>Botch.<BR><BR>Of course, the GM can define that a task may be a little harder or easier<BR>than the usual, so for example a Hard test against a number of 5, or an Easy<BR>task against a number of 13 is possible.<BR><BR>Guidelines for Time Pressure and Tools ;<BR><BR>Inadequate tools (a portable toolbox or a copy of Gray's Anantomy); -1 skill<BR><BR>Inadequate (20% of usual) time ; -1 skill<BR><BR>Grossly inadequate (5% of usual) time ; -2 skill<BR><BR>Plentiful time (500% normal) and lots of tools (a full workshop or library)<BR>= +1 skill<BR><BR>Amendment for 2d6 fundamentalists : Rather than rolling extra dice, give a<BR>DM of 3 for every skill level below the minimum that you are missing.<BR><BR>Designers notes : The It's Harder Than It Looks element adds quite a bit of<BR>subtlety to this. For example, lets look at a long 2-part horse ride. First<BR>half of the course is an Average Equestrian (Dex) test. Second half is an<BR>Average Equestrian (Con) test.<BR><BR>We have 3 racers ; Jon, with skill-0, CON 9 DX 9 ; Irene with skill-2, CON 7<BR>DX 7 and Jenna with skill-4, CON4 DX4.<BR><BR>As Average tests need skill-1, Jon is rolling 4 dice against a target number<BR>of 8, plus one because of his high Dex (first ride) and h. As his skill is<BR>one, if he blows the roll by 2, he Botches (presumably falling off his<BR>horse). Jon may make a 9 rolling 4 dice twice, but the odds are he will<BR>Botch one of the 2 rolls (rolling 11 or more on 4 dice is pretty likely) and<BR>fall off his horse. Even if Jon was built like Adonis (stats D or better),<BR>he is still likely to fall off the horse (4 dice against target numbers of<BR>10, or 12 to Botch).<BR><BR>Irene on the other hand, is only rolling 2 dice (her skill of 2 is what is<BR>expected on Average tasks) against a target number of 10 (8 for average,<BR>plus 2 for Irene's skills). If she rolls a 6 or better, she will get a<BR>Special Success, and will botch on a 14 (ie she wont botch).<BR><BR>Jenna is also rolling 2 dice against a target number of 10 - her target<BR>number is 2 better because of extra skill, but it's 2 worse because her<BR>muscles and bones arent what they used to be. She will also get a Special<BR>Success on a 6 or better, and will also botch on a 14.<BR><BR>OK, so it's even between Irene and Jenna, and Jon probably fell about half a<BR>mile into the course. Now lets add some jumps, and make them Hard Equestrian<BR>tests, first one on Dex and the second on Con.<BR><BR>Jon is now rolling 5 dice against a target number of 6. It is almost certain<BR>that he will Botch, and make a (brave) idiot of himself at the first jump.<BR><BR>Jenna is now rolling 3 dice against a target number of 6 (8 minus skill 2).<BR>She will Botch on a roll of 10 or more (target number of 6, plus double her<BR>skill of 2).<BR><BR>Irene's age and experience show out here, because she is rolling 2 dice<BR>against a target number of 5 (8 minus skill four, plus stat 1)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 02:41:41 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: RE: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>&gt;From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>&gt;Subject: RE: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>...<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; BTW, that's another point in favour of single die (d20) - at<BR>&gt;&gt;least in wargames, where the effects of target size modifiers (e.g.<BR>&gt;&gt;Striker, 2d6 for 12+ at Extreme range, but target is +2 size...)<BR>&gt;&gt;can really warp the heck out of your bell-curves "expected" results.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Are you sure you aren't a secret admirer of TNE? &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; Only the concept (_not_ execution!) of Virus.<BR><BR>&nbsp; And probably Heplar drives, too.<BR><BR>&nbsp; The complete rules break from the past annoyed me, and the <BR>combat system sounds a bit goofy (surviving PGMP [=AT] hits!).<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 02:49:59 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: Skills in CT<BR><BR>&gt;From: Postmark Design Bureau &lt;postmark.design@btinternet.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Skills in CT<BR>...<BR>&gt;&gt; sort of fall by the wayside as you add/allow skills like Gravitics,<BR>&gt;&gt; Robotics, Research (?) - whatever you like, it's CT, after all :)<BR>...<BR>&gt;Especially for the scientist. Apart from computers, gravitics, electronics<BR>&gt;and engineering, there wasn't much to be a scientist in!<BR><BR>&nbsp; T4 fixed that, IIRC - as did TNE? All one needs do is add the extra<BR>selection to the slots in CT chargen. <BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Pilot at least adds to Agility again at level seven (!), but for the<BR>&gt;&gt; most part would an impromptu system need to deal comprehensively with<BR>&gt;&gt; skill levels in CT above five?<BR>...<BR>&gt;Indeed, it is something to be fixed by the char gen system.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;At the time of the great KB2 task war, an alternative task system was<BR>&gt;devised which I adopted.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Hmm, synchronicity :|&nbsp; BTW, do you suppose that we're being <BR>unconstructive or is this merely idiotic banter?<BR><BR>&gt;If you have rifle-5, you roll 1d6, rifle-3 - 3d6, rifle-2 - 4d6, etc.<BR>...<BR>&gt;The problem is that unless the skills are in the range 1-4 with the<BR>&gt;occasional 5 or 6, it becomes very difficult to assign skill targets<BR>&gt;that don't result the action being a 1d6 roll for someone. Having a char gen<BR>&gt;system that gives stats of 12+ doesn't help either. (Not only is 2d6<BR>&gt;automatically successful, you can't even fumble.)<BR><BR>&nbsp; FWIW, if I were going to insist on fitting stats directly into a CT<BR>skills system I'd go back and have initial chargen for substitute two<BR>dAverage (2,3,3,4,4,5) for 2d6 - realistically, that's 6-8 and the<BR>problem is solved :&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;Just one of many things that I don't like is that I want players to make<BR>&gt;decision about how to approach a task - do they have time for a cautious<BR>&gt;attempt or must they take the extra risk of a hasty or fateful task.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Hmm, I can see the value of letting slow going be an option for non-<BR>combat types of things, but having just one speed for "adventuring"<BR>activities keeps play flowing by removing the sorts of decisions that<BR>involve programmable calculators...<BR><BR>&gt;I *don't* want them worrying about the mechanics of do they want to roll all<BR>&gt;their dice to succed or fewer to improve their chance of exceptional success.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Tell me about - the accountants &amp; engineers (let alone the physicists)<BR>that I game with will figure out the math if they want to, but what about<BR>the softer sciences (let alone the arts)? Heck, som of these people would<BR>have trouble making change for a can of soda-pop...<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Steven Hudson<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 02:57:19 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2D System<BR><BR>&gt;From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: The Perfect 2D System (To beat the unbeatable roll, to...<BR>...<BR>&gt;Well, Steven I always got complaints from the Stat 10+ folks that<BR>&gt;their "high INT, EDU, or whatever" should help them more than it<BR>&gt;did.&nbsp; The DGP system seemed to vindicate their complaints.&nbsp; I<BR><BR>&nbsp; I can see using the DGP/MT system, although /3 _really_ changes<BR>it into Space Opera fodder, IMHO. But /5 flies OK.<BR><BR>&gt;suspect many Traveller Refs migrated to DGP and then MT pretty<BR>&gt;naturally.&nbsp; I don't mind a little Stat included if it makes the<BR>&gt;players happy..heck, I'm not looking for a *simulation* when I play,<BR>&gt;I'm looking to have some fun.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Simulations are what I wargame for (sometimes) :&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; I might drop Striker-designed hardware into Trav, but the basic<BR>game rules has to be about the characters skills (&amp; stats?) being<BR>aids themselves to the players making decisions about courses of<BR>action. Fast enough, with the PC's being more than "mere" playing<BR>pieces. Although the way some people play... :&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;although I guess some direct use for Int &amp; Edu is needed after chargen...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Yeah, I guess...but for what?&nbsp; &lt;g&gt; <BR><BR>&nbsp; IIRC others have suggested in the past that you either be able<BR>to "fill up" to your Int &amp; Edu skill limit with level-0 skills,<BR>or that you get additional such.<BR><BR>&nbsp; And no, I don't buy the "PC's get level-0 in everything" line.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Steven Hudson<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 03:10:05 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: Skills in CT <BR><BR>&gt;From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Skills in CT (was Re: The Perfect 2d6 System)<BR>...<BR>&gt;&gt;chargen, do you expect to have to have a resolution _system_ to<BR>&gt;&gt;cover characters with skill levels of 4+? Or 5+? <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;In CT terms, I'm not "faithful", but fairly, I think 4 or 5 is about the<BR>top end of <BR>...<BR>&gt;The one I'm using in RDeep *does* this, and it's CT all the way. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; I'm not sure that anyone expects _you_ to be "faithful" to the published <BR>rules :&gt;&nbsp; Hey, wouldn't "CT all the way" mean just about anything that you<BR>wanted it to if you use the original three LBB's? :&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 03:18:05 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: the perfect 2d system<BR><BR>&gt;From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: the perfect 2d system (next on the list,<BR>...<BR>&gt;Skill can be seen as being more than *just* the experience a PC has<BR>&gt;had.&nbsp; It can be a combination of experience and natural ability in<BR>&gt;that area.&nbsp; Thus, a Medical-4 could represent how experienced *and*<BR>&gt;how intellegent, dexterious, and educated (in medical terms only) a<BR>&gt;character is.<BR><BR>&nbsp; So you're conveniently defining your terms to simplify the task<BR>at hand? <BR><BR>&nbsp; I like it :&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; Keeping in mind that a PC with high Int &amp; Edu will tend to have<BR>better results from chargen in the first place, too ... which is<BR>another (play-balance) justification for leaving the stats out to<BR>as large a degree as possible.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Steven Hudson<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 11:50:03 +0000<BR>From: Dominic Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Star Worn? Comments<BR><BR>At 22:52 -0500 27/12/00,&nbsp; "Pat Connaughton" &lt;&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;Dom, Happy Holidays et al<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Sorry, I missed mention of "Star Worn"<BR>&gt;Where's it stored?<BR><BR>"Star Worn" is a freebie (for two weeks only) from BITS, available on <BR>the archive page at the BITS website as an Acrobat PDF file. It is <BR>what we would generally refer to as a 'fun' adventure. These are <BR>generally run on the last day (Sunday) of GenCon UK amidst hangovers <BR>and and general sillyness. Last year I had the group playing <BR>xxxxCensoredxxxx doing the Conga through the other tournaments <BR>(generally fun) and we found the D&amp;D3 Open fun players joining in the <BR>end of the line, doing Dalek impressions and a wide number of other <BR>surreal things which resulted in us almost becoming a spectator sport.<BR><BR>"What are you guys playing?"<BR>"Traveller Fun"<BR>"Cool"<BR><BR>Generally, the Traveller fun scenario is a mixture of a number of <BR>films and sci-fi cliches, with a twist of familiar characters from <BR>things as diverse as that film series from Lucasfilm, Red Dwarf, <BR>Terminator, Trek and a number of other sources (the old White Dwarf <BR>'The Travellers' strip - Mad Gav and Felix and Dinalt feature quite <BR>often, as have Sculder and Mulley from the X files).<BR><BR><BR>Anyway, last year we put a free PDF of the scenario 'White Dwarf' on <BR>the website for two weeks. This year we've put up 'Star Worn'. Next <BR>year, who knows (we'll watch the responses!).<BR><BR>So check out the archive page at http://www.bits.org.uk/<BR><BR><BR>Dom (now packing to go in 2" of overnight snow)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 04:22:36 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: Skills in CT<BR><BR>&gt;From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Skills in CT<BR>...<BR>&gt;- --- Skills and Stats don't add ---<BR>&gt;1.&nbsp; Stats are rated as Stat/3 for task purposes and used just like skills.<BR>&gt;2.&nbsp; Skills are rolled for as in Books 4-8&nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>&gt;3.&nbsp; Choose a Task Difficulty from the following table (basic combat<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; is 8+, many tasks should be Average or Routine)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; 2&nbsp; Automatic<BR>...<BR>&gt; 16&nbsp; Impossible<BR><BR>&nbsp; Hmm, I gather that representing the entire range of values from<BR>2 to 16 allows _great_ flexibility :&gt;&nbsp; It is of course _very_ CT.<BR><BR>&gt;4.&nbsp; Roll 2d6+(Skill or Stat/3)* &gt;= Difficulty Level<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; *note this is either Skill OR Stat, as determined by the Ref, not both<BR><BR>&nbsp; So this approach gives you your stat checks for long-jumping, running,<BR>etc., plus all the "normal" skills like Mechanic, Computer, Admin...<BR><BR>&gt;- ---Skills and Stats do add---<BR>&gt;1.&nbsp; Stats are rated for task purposes as Stat/3 and are used like skills<BR>&gt;2.&nbsp; Skills are rolled as per MT chargen<BR>&gt;3.&nbsp; Choose a Difficulty from the following table<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; 3 Easy<BR>...<BR>&gt; 24 Impossible<BR><BR>&nbsp; Those are the standard MT values (?), yes - shouldn't they be ~1 higher<BR>due to the increased stat bonus from /3 replacing /5?<BR><BR>&nbsp; Not sure which approach I'd use - it's nice (IMHO) not to have to<BR>classify every skill on the fly for governing stat...<BR><BR>&nbsp; Any suggestions beyond MT for mods for taking a task slowly?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Steven Hudson<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 14:04:45 +0100<BR>From: "Kjeld Johansen" &lt;kjeld@games.dk&gt;<BR>Subject: How long does a Jump take?<BR><BR>How long does a Jump take? In GT p. 44 it says: "Normal jump take 168 hours<BR>(plus or minus up to 10 percent) to complete..."<BR><BR>IMTU this is a fairly good approximation. There is an endless number of<BR>factors there is affecting the time spent in jump-space. This result in a<BR>distribution there fairly well can be described by a Normal distribution<BR>(N).<BR>A Normal distribution is described by its Mean (My), which we know as 168<BR>hours, and its Standard deviation (Sigma). I assume that the "plus or minus<BR>up to 10 percent" comes from that 95% of all successful jump is within this<BR>range. This means that 2.5% of all jumps last less than 151.2 hours. With<BR>this information Sigma can be calculates as 8.5715913. This gives a 'One in<BR>a million chance' that a jump last 127 hours or less.<BR>A Normal distribution isn't a perfect discretion, since this can result in a<BR>negative travel time (which never have occurred). But the chance of this<BR>will happen is so close to zero, that I can't even calculate it, so it is a<BR>fair assumption that it is zero.<BR><BR>Time spent in jump-space can be described by: N (My, Sigma) = (168,<BR>8.5715913).<BR>This isn't a very easy distribution to be using during a game. But 6d6 is a<BR>fairly good approximation to a to a Normal distribution. 6d6 (My, Sigma) =<BR>(21, 4.183255). Therefore you can describe the travel time as 6d6x2 + 126<BR>hours. 6d6x2 + 126 (My, Sigma) = (168, 8.366511).<BR>Since there is 918 / 46656 chance of rolling 12 or less on 6d6, will 96% of<BR>all jump be within the "plus or minus up to 10 percent", which is close<BR>enough.<BR><BR>So if you too is tired of not knowing how long a jump takes, then determine<BR>then number of hours spent in jump-space as 6d6x2 + 126.<BR><BR>Kjeld.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 10:41:03 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Skills in CT<BR><BR>On 12/28/00 at 02:49 AM,&nbsp; shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson) said:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; FWIW, if I were going to insist on fitting stats directly into a<BR>&gt;CT skills system I'd go back and have initial chargen for<BR>&gt;substitute two dAverage (2,3,3,4,4,5) for 2d6 - realistically,<BR>&gt;that's 6-8 and the problem is solved :&gt;<BR><BR>Most folks know how much I complained about the "damn d3", so here's a *really* heretical idea, use 3d3 to roll stats.&nbsp; You get 3-9, ev of 6 with a nice bell curve.<BR><BR>Or, use 3df (df= -1, 0, 1) for a range of -3 to +3, ev of 0 for Attributes. Personally, I'd prefer to shift the result toward 0 by 1, giving a range of -2 to +2 and call the levels Poor, Mediocre, Fair, Good, and Great. &lt;G&gt;<BR><BR>Of course, you'll need to do something about the damage system with either suggestion. <BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Just one of many things that I don't like is that I want players to make<BR>&gt;&gt;decision about how to approach a task - do they have time for a cautious<BR>&gt;&gt;attempt or must they take the extra risk of a hasty or fateful task.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; Hmm, I can see the value of letting slow going be an option for<BR>&gt;non-<BR>&gt;combat types of things, but having just one speed for "adventuring"<BR>&gt;activities keeps play flowing by removing the sorts of decisions<BR>&gt;that involve programmable calculators...<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;I *don't* want them worrying about the mechanics of do they want to roll all<BR>&gt;&gt;their dice to succed or fewer to improve their chance of exceptional success.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; Tell me about - the accountants &amp; engineers (let alone the<BR>&gt;physicists) that I game with will figure out the math if they want<BR>&gt;to, but what about the softer sciences (let alone the arts)? Heck,<BR>&gt;som of these people would have trouble making change for a can of<BR>&gt;soda-pop...<BR><BR>Frankly, I want the players roleplaying, and let the Ref worry about the rolling. Sure, some folks *like* to roll dice, and when I'm Reffing I give the players the option to roll for important things, but mostly I do the rolling for everything.&nbsp; If they are being cautious they tell me when they tell me what they are trying to do and I take it into account.<BR><BR>Eris<BR><BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3474<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yg01.mx.aol.com (rly-yg01.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.1]) by air-yg03.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Thu, 28 Dec 2000 11:56:02 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yg01.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Thu, 28 Dec 2000 11:55:44 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id LAA66293;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thu, 28 Dec 2000 11:41:42 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Thu, 28 Dec 2000 11:41:10 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id LAA66246<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Thu, 28 Dec 2000 11:41:10 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 11:41:10 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012281641.LAA66246@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3474<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Thursday, December 28 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3475<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Skills in CT<BR>Re: Skills in CT<BR>Re: the perfect 2d system<BR>Re: Their is no perfect 2d6 system, but this one is reasonable<BR>Re: How long does a Jump take?<BR>Re : Health Care in the US (was : Re : Naming Laws)<BR>Re: How long does a Jump take?<BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>Character-Defined Task Rolls<BR>Re: KB3 probabilities<BR>Re: My first filk<BR>Re: Noble vs. military rank<BR>Re: Alienage (was: Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR>Re: Aliens (was Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR>Re: Lend-Lease (with ObTrav's!!)<BR>Iris valves<BR>Re: the perfect 2d system (next on the list, just after we find the Holy&nbsp; Grail)<BR>Re: Iris valves<BR>Re: Iris valves<BR>Re: Skills in CT<BR>Re: Character-Defined Task Rolls<BR>Re: KB3 probabilities<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 10:53:12 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Skills in CT<BR><BR>On 12/28/00 at 03:10 AM,&nbsp; shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson) said:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>&gt;&gt;Subject: Re: Skills in CT (was Re: The Perfect 2d6 System)<BR>&gt;...<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;chargen, do you expect to have to have a resolution _system_ to<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;cover characters with skill levels of 4+? Or 5+? <BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;In CT terms, I'm not "faithful", but fairly, I think 4 or 5 is about the<BR>&gt;top end of <BR>&gt;...<BR>&gt;&gt;The one I'm using in RDeep *does* this, and it's CT all the way. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; I'm not sure that anyone expects _you_ to be "faithful" to the<BR>&gt;published&nbsp; rules :&gt;&nbsp; Hey, wouldn't "CT all the way" mean just about<BR>&gt;anything that you wanted it to if you use the original three LBB's?<BR>&gt;:&gt;<BR><BR>Yes...why *yes* it would! Steven, I don't mind there being a lot of rules, but I tend to use very few of them in actual play. I don't want to look up rules, consult tables, or do calculations while Reffing or playing. Okay, some of that *has* to be done, but I minimize it as much as possible. Sometimes that means changing the rules, sometimes it simply means ignoring them. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 11:17:06 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Skills in CT<BR><BR>On 12/28/00 at 04:22 AM,&nbsp; shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson) said:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;- --- Skills and Stats don't add ---<BR>&gt;&gt;1.&nbsp; Stats are rated as Stat/3 for task purposes and used just like skills.<BR>&gt;&gt;2.&nbsp; Skills are rolled for as in Books 4-8&nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>&gt;&gt;3.&nbsp; Choose a Task Difficulty from the following table (basic combat<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; is 8+, many tasks should be Average or Routine)<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; 2&nbsp; Automatic<BR>&gt;...<BR>&gt;&gt; 16&nbsp; Impossible<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; Hmm, I gather that representing the entire range of values from 2<BR>&gt;to 16 allows _great_ flexibility :&gt;&nbsp; It is of course _very_ CT.<BR><BR>I only *remember* the even numbers and seven, Auto, Easy, Routine,<BR>Average, Difficult, etc. and almost all tasks end up between Routine<BR>and Formidable anyway.&nbsp; The rest I included for completeness.&nbsp; &lt;g&gt;<BR>If I want a task slightly harder than Difficult (8+), but not quite<BR>Formidable (10+), then that's Very Difficult (9+)...naturally.&nbsp; I<BR>don't know how it would be for others, but my brain find this an<BR>Easy task.&nbsp; &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;4.&nbsp; Roll 2d6+(Skill or Stat/3)* &gt;= Difficulty Level<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; *note this is either Skill OR Stat, as determined by the Ref, not both<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; So this approach gives you your stat checks for long-jumping,<BR>&gt;running, etc., plus all the "normal" skills like Mechanic,<BR>&gt;Computer, Admin...<BR><BR>Yes, it does.&nbsp; The full Stat is used for damage and in chargen, but<BR>for all tasks it's the Stat/3 that is used.&nbsp; Say a PC (STR 7) needs<BR>to force that stuck hatch, the task is...<BR><BR>&nbsp; To Open Stuck Hatch<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Formidable. Str. 6 sec.<BR><BR>...that would be 2d6+2 GE 10&nbsp; (42% chance of success).<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&gt;- ---Skills and Stats do add---<BR>&gt;&gt;1.&nbsp; Stats are rated for task purposes as Stat/3 and are used like skills<BR>&gt;&gt;2.&nbsp; Skills are rolled as per MT chargen<BR>&gt;&gt;3.&nbsp; Choose a Difficulty from the following table<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; 3 Easy<BR>&gt;...<BR>&gt;&gt; 24 Impossible<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; Those are the standard MT values (?), yes - shouldn't they be ~1<BR>&gt;higher due to the increased stat bonus from /3 replacing /5?<BR><BR>If you want, but for me no.&nbsp; With the extra levels on the top end<BR>Impossible is still pretty much impossible.&nbsp; Let me show you the<BR>comparison<BR><BR>Description&nbsp;&nbsp; MT&nbsp; Mine<BR>---------------------- <BR>&nbsp; Easy&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 3&nbsp;&nbsp; 3<BR>&nbsp; Routine&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 7&nbsp;&nbsp; 6<BR>&nbsp; Average&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 7&nbsp;&nbsp; 9<BR>&nbsp; Difficult&nbsp; &nbsp; 11&nbsp; 12<BR>&nbsp; Formidable&nbsp;&nbsp; 15&nbsp; 15<BR>&nbsp; Staggering&nbsp;&nbsp; 15&nbsp; 18<BR>&nbsp; Hopeless&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 15&nbsp; 21<BR>&nbsp; Impossible&nbsp;&nbsp; 19&nbsp; 24<BR><BR>Personally, I like the easy skills to be easy and the hard skills to<BR>be *hard*.&nbsp; So, I have more levels and they really start getting<BR>harder as you get to Staggering skills.&nbsp; Yes, Difficult and<BR>Formidable skills *are* a little easier with my scale, but that<BR>doesn't bother me.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; Not sure which approach I'd use - it's nice (IMHO) not to have to<BR>&gt;classify every skill on the fly for governing stat...<BR><BR>The only real advantage I see in the Trait+Trait approach is the<BR>ability to use *2* traits, whether Attributes or Skills, in a task.<BR>That *does* come in handy sometimes, particularly two Skills.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; Any suggestions beyond MT for mods for taking a task slowly?<BR><BR>I make it simple:&nbsp; double the time on a task and it's one level<BR>easier, halve the time and it's one level harder.<BR><BR>Eris<BR><BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 11:21:53 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: the perfect 2d system<BR><BR>On 12/28/00 at 03:18 AM,&nbsp; shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson) said:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>&gt;&gt;Subject: Re: the perfect 2d system (next on the list,<BR>&gt;...<BR>&gt;&gt;Skill can be seen as being more than *just* the experience a PC has<BR>&gt;&gt;had.&nbsp; It can be a combination of experience and natural ability in<BR>&gt;&gt;that area.&nbsp; Thus, a Medical-4 could represent how experienced *and*<BR>&gt;&gt;how intellegent, dexterious, and educated (in medical terms only) a<BR>&gt;&gt;character is.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; So you're conveniently defining your terms to simplify the task<BR>&gt;at hand? <BR><BR>It seemed like the right thing to do. ;-&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; I like it :&gt;<BR><BR>Are you *sure* you aren't a heretic too? ;-p<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; Keeping in mind that a PC with high Int &amp; Edu will tend to have<BR>&gt;better results from chargen in the first place, too ... which is<BR>&gt;another (play-balance) justification for leaving the stats out to<BR>&gt;as large a degree as possible.<BR><BR>Precisely!&nbsp; <BR><BR>As I wrote in another post, the biggest justification I can see for<BR>a Trait+Trait system is the ability to easily get two traits into<BR>one skill roll.&nbsp; Interestingly the most *useful* form to me seems to<BR>be Skill+Skill, not Skill+Attribute or Attribute+Attribute.<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 11:25:01 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Their is no perfect 2d6 system, but this one is reasonable<BR><BR>On 12/28/00 at 02:34 AM,&nbsp; "Katharine Whitchurch" &lt;katts@globalfreeway.com.au&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; So, for those looking solely at Book 1, how simple can a CT<BR>&gt;&gt; skill (/task) system retrofit be made? Use of stats is optional :)<BR><BR>&gt;Here it is ... another TLA skill system - superiour to it's<BR>&gt;competitors on the grounds it involves 2 dice, and is Much Much<BR>&gt;Shorter. It is unashamedly biased to skills over stats.<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>Did you enjoy writing that?&nbsp; ;-&gt;<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 11:41:24 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: How long does a Jump take?<BR><BR>On 12/28/00 at 02:04 PM,&nbsp; "Kjeld Johansen" &lt;kjeld@games.dk&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;So if you too is tired of not knowing how long a jump takes, then<BR>&gt;determine then number of hours spent in jump-space as 6d6x2 + 126.<BR><BR>That looks okay if you want the range that wide.<BR><BR>You might want to try (6d6 - 21) + 168. It gives you a range of 153 to 183 with less math and your tails are about 10% from the mean. My assumption is that the +/- 10% refers to substantially the entire range of a normal jump. Misjumps are a different beast entirely.<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 10:49:37 -0800<BR>From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>Subject: Re : Health Care in the US (was : Re : Naming Laws)<BR><BR>"Robert O'Connor" &lt;robocon@ozemail.com.au&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; It's interesting to note that in a recent WHO study of over 100<BR>&gt; nations' health care systems, countries like Spain and France topped<BR>&gt; the list when factors such as equality of access, limitation of<BR>&gt; consumer/provider liability, and cost per quality-adjusted life year<BR>&gt; were also considered with other traditional outcome measures.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The U.S. was about a third of the way down the list, at the bottom of<BR>&gt; all the OECD countries.<BR><BR>Ugh!&nbsp; Thanks for the info.&nbsp; In many ways, the US is far from being a <BR>civilized nation, yet another reason to consider moving...<BR><BR>- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 12:53:22 -0600<BR>From: "Pat Connaughton" &lt;patconnaughton@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: How long does a Jump take?<BR><BR>On the subject of misjumps.<BR><BR>What methods (other than canon) has<BR>anyone worked up for their own use?<BR><BR>Please advise<BR>Thanks<BR>Pat Connaughton<BR>e-mail - ptconn@earthlink.net<BR>homepage - www.home.earthlink.net/~ptconn<BR>ICQ # 2535086<BR>"He who knows not how to dissemble knows not<BR>how to reign"<BR>Tiberius, Emperator and Princips of Rome<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 10:57:17 -0800<BR>From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson) wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>&gt; &gt;Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>&gt; ...<BR>&gt; &gt;Actually, figuring out whether a neutrino source is a ship in the<BR>&gt; &gt;same system or a star is simple, move a few 1,000 km and take another<BR>&gt; &gt;reading, parallax will give you the distance of anything in system,<BR>&gt; &gt;and will let you know if something is too far away from that amount<BR>&gt; &gt;of parallax to locate.&nbsp; I'd also expect the sensors to automatically<BR>&gt; &gt;use parallax to determine relatively near distances as the hip orbits<BR>&gt; &gt;or otherwise moves through space.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; FWIW, the signal from a star won't change significantly if you open<BR>&gt; or close the range by a thousand km - everything elses will, yes?<BR><BR>Yes, the closer something is, the more it's apparent position will <BR>change as you move.&nbsp; The position of an object also doesn't <BR>change if you move directly towards or away from it, but doing this <BR>will be obvious.&nbsp; Travelling in a 1,000 km circle would be&nbsp; good first <BR>step in orientating a ship since measurements taken continuously <BR>along this path would provide a very nice series of baselines for pin-<BR>pointing any in-system objects.<BR><BR>- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 13:02:30 -0600<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Character-Defined Task Rolls<BR><BR>Kenneth, you think that task rolls should be defined by the character's<BR>qualities, right? And that MT doesn't do this because most of the roll comes<BR>from chance, right? And that T4 does this (if unrealistically) because you<BR>roll down, right?<BR><BR>But think of it this way. Take a T4 char with a stat 7 and skill 2<BR>(proficient-level). Now, treat this as a modifier, and that you have to roll<BR>upward (for average tasks, the difficulty is 13). This means that you need<BR>to roll at least a 4 to win.<BR><BR>Now take that same character and use MT. Target of 7 for a Routine (average)<BR>task. The stat gives you a +1 and the skill a +2. You now need to roll at<BR>least 4 to succeed. So, probability-wise, there is *no difference*. Sure,<BR>the target becomes 3 in T4 if the stat is 8, but we all agree that that's<BR>not realistic.<BR><BR>Yet you say that MT is flawed because when you roll that 4, that 4 points<BR>coming from chance and only 3 from the character. I ask you to change your<BR>perspective for a moment and ask yourself this question: Are those 4 points<BR>*really* from chance? You don't know the outcome beforehand, but that's NOT<BR>chance, IMHO.<BR><BR>Think about swinging a sword at someone in real-life. You don't _know_<BR>whether or not you'll hit him, but you'd never call that chance, would you?<BR><BR>I not sure that the dice roll should be called chance. Granted, part of it<BR>is. Instead of thinking of it as such, however, think of it as "potential".<BR><BR>I'm just rambling now, so think about this, and then make up your own mind.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 11:10:16 -0800<BR>From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>Subject: Re: KB3 probabilities<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Just for shits-n-grins, let's look at what chance a Stat-7, Skill-6<BR>&gt; character has of rolling an Impossible task under the MT system.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Target number is 19+, and your mods bring this throw down to 12+. <BR>&gt; Your chance of success is just under 3%.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In some opinions, that's a pretty low figure for somebody who is about<BR>&gt; the best at an area of expertise that anybody is going to get.&nbsp; Under<BR>&gt; MT (with an average Stat-7), if you don't have a Skill-6, you can't<BR>&gt; even make an Impossible throw. If you have a Stat-10, you've got to<BR>&gt; have a Skill-5 to even make an Impossible throw.&nbsp; And, if your Stat is<BR>&gt; the Human Maxium (Stat-15), you've got to have a Skill-4 to make the<BR>&gt; throw.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; This means that, if you have Skill-0, Skill-1, Skill-2, or Skill-3 (or<BR>&gt; even Skill-4, if you don't have Stat-15), you can't even make an<BR>&gt; Impossible throw--and even then, your chance of success is 3%.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Now, some people will look at this as a good thing and say, "Well,<BR>&gt; Impossible should be...er...well....Impossible", and this way of<BR>&gt; dicing certainly fits that description in my book.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Other people will look at their character sheets and see that they<BR>&gt; only have a couple skills that will allow them to make an Impossible<BR>&gt; throw and realize that, for all practicle purposes, given these game<BR>&gt; rules, most gamers will not be able to ever (or nearly ever) do the<BR>&gt; Impossible with their characters--and that's just not fun in gaming.<BR><BR>That's what cautious tasks are for.&nbsp; When confronted with an <BR>Impossible task doing anything other than taking your time and <BR>being very careful is reserved for extreme experts in emergency <BR>circumstance.&nbsp; In the MT task system, one of the primary uses for <BR>Impossible tasks is to provide tasks with a significant chance of <BR>failure, even if the PC is quite skilled.&nbsp; A character with Stat 10 &amp; <BR>Skill 4 (an extremely competent expert) has a 28% chance of <BR>success.&nbsp; That seems quire reasonable.&nbsp; OTOH, if Impossible <BR>tasks were any easier, then this chance could easily rise over <BR>50%, which would IMO make them far too easy.&nbsp; The same <BR>character faced with a cautious Formidable task has an 83% <BR>chance of success. <BR><BR>- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 19:27:57 GMT<BR>From: TML@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>Subject: Re: My first filk<BR><BR>"Michael A. Hoxie" &lt;ludowick@juno.com&gt; writes:<BR><BR>&gt;"Welcome to the Traveller Mailing List"&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;Ahem.&nbsp; Mi mi mi...&gt;<BR><BR>I think we could actually *add* that song to the FAQ...<BR><BR>Stephen<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 19:27:54 GMT<BR>From: TML@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>Subject: Re: Noble vs. military rank<BR><BR>Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt; writes:<BR><BR>&gt;So... they're just different names and types of paper for the top <BR>&gt;layer of NCOs?&nbsp; Is that all?*<BR><BR>I looked up some of the historical background to this over Christmas:<BR>the status of Warrant Officers in the Royal Navy during the<BR>Revolutionary and Napoleponic Wars.<BR><BR>Basically, they formed the permanent corps of skilled professionals in<BR>the Navy;&nbsp; they were the gunners, coxswains, carpenters, surgeons,<BR>etc.&nbsp; Many of them would have been promoted up from the ranks, but<BR>possession of the Warrant (which, I believe, came from the Admiralty<BR>rather than the Crown) made a big difference.&nbsp; Enlisted men and petty<BR>officers could be promoted, demoted or dismissed by the ship's captain<BR>at will, but Warrant Officers (like commissioned officers) could only<BR>be relieved of their rank by a formal court martial.&nbsp; Also, when a<BR>ship was paid off at the end of its commission, the sailors (and the<BR>commissioned officers, for that matter) would find themselves<BR>unemployed until recruited for a different ship, but the warrant<BR>officers would continue to hold their position and draw full pay.<BR>Socially, of course, they were middle-class rather than being<BR>gentlemen like the commissioned officers, and so could not be trusted<BR>with actual command duties outside their professional functions.<BR><BR>Stephen<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 19:27:59 GMT<BR>From: TML@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>Subject: Re: Alienage (was: Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR><BR>"Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt; writes:<BR><BR>&gt;Ripley: "loignez d'elle, vous chienne!"<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Well, kinda.<BR><BR>She's being rather formal, isn't she?&nbsp; I'd have thought she'd use the<BR>"tu" form.&nbsp; (Unless she considers the Alien Queen to be royalty, of<BR>course;&nbsp; and then of course Ripley's not yet part of the family...)<BR><BR>I'd go for "Laisse-la, espce de chienne!" myself.<BR><BR>Stephen<BR><BR>"Jag tycker vi lyfter och bombar hela skiten frn luften.&nbsp; Det enda<BR>sttet att vara helt sker." - Aliens, Swedish subtitled version.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 19:28:01 GMT<BR>From: TML@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>Subject: Re: Aliens (was Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR><BR>"Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt; writes:<BR><BR>&gt;The way I see it, Alien was a Horror mvie, Aliens was a War movie, Alien3<BR>&gt;might have been a Good Film, <BR><BR>Alien3 was a fairly good BBC2 Sunday afternoon one-off drama special.<BR><BR><BR>(of the "filmed in an abandoned London power station, using lots of<BR>extras with working-class British accents to make it seem gritty and<BR>realistic, not much in the way of flashy special effects, an attempt<BR>to make the plot Serious and Meaningful, and a downbeat ending."<BR>variety).<BR><BR>Alien Resurrection was, IMO, a pretty good bubblegum action movie -<BR>certainly not in the league of the first two films, but fun to watch.<BR>(and I thought SW's acting was effective, too;&nbsp; still recognisably<BR>Ripley, but with an unsettling hint of something else as well).<BR><BR>Stephen<BR>(Another possible description of the first two films:<BR>"Aliens will have you on the edge of your seat;<BR>Alien will have you hiding behind it..."<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 19:28:04 GMT<BR>From: TML@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>Subject: Re: Lend-Lease (with ObTrav's!!)<BR><BR>"Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt; writes:<BR><BR>&gt;Well, the Japanese weren't ever going to beat the US at attritional<BR>&gt;warfare.&nbsp; Once they were engaged in it, they were doomed to eventual<BR>&gt;defeat.&nbsp; <BR><BR>That was their entire strategy, though:&nbsp; set up a defensive perimeter<BR>as far away as possible, then wear down the Americans in lots of<BR>attritional battles until they gave up and went home.&nbsp; They were<BR>gambling that their will to fight was greater than the Americans'<BR>(possibly true, except for the effect Pearl Harbor had on US public<BR>opinion.&nbsp; Oops.) and that they would not lose half their fleet in one<BR>battle due to a desperate stroke of bad luck (Midway.&nbsp; Oops again).<BR><BR>ObTrav:&nbsp; the Sword Worlds doubtless believed that their courage,<BR>martial skill and determination would allow them to triumph over the<BR>wealthy and numerous but cowardly and effete Imperials.<BR><BR>Stephen<BR>(remember the Japanese launched two major offensives in 1944 - the one<BR>into India failed, but in China they conquered a region that was<BR>bigger than France)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 14:50:17 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Iris valves<BR><BR>Okay, a techie question raised by an Alien question:<BR><BR>I was watching Alien the other week and noticed that the Nostromo has <BR>iris valves in the ventilation ducts where Dallas goes but does not <BR>return.&nbsp; And I remembered reading at least twice here on the list <BR>that iris valves are impractical, impossible, or otherwise silly. <BR>Could someone or someones explain this in a bit more detail?&nbsp; I'd be <BR>curious to know why one of those staples of Traveller -- right up <BR>there with one-week-jumps and the 100-diameter limit -- isn't <BR>workable.&nbsp; If that is the case.<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 14:57:07 EST<BR>From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: the perfect 2d system (next on the list, just after we find the Holy&nbsp; Grail)<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; On 2d6 with average character modifiers on the roll of +0 to +3,<BR>&gt;&gt;with&nbsp; extreme cases reaching +8 or more, works just fine for me.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Even with my skill figures, my DM's don't vary much from yours.&nbsp; In<BR>&gt;fact, mine might be lower than yours given I don't add the stat to<BR>&gt;the skill.<BR><BR>I base the total character DMs to the roll on both the MT system and the "to <BR>hit" mods based on either STR or DEX listed for each weapon in CT, as well as <BR>the various suggestions in the CT skill lists as to how stats might modify <BR>the roll.&nbsp; <BR><BR>That particular thing, by the way, is something CT and MT do better than <BR>pretty much any other game on the market, despite the general kvetching about <BR>how small stat modifiers are. Very few other games out there venture into the <BR>possibility that DIFFERENT stats might be used with a skill depending on the <BR>task at hand, though it is a concept easily grafted into a fair number of <BR>them.<BR><BR>Where Traveller (and frankly, most any game) falls is combat. Different <BR>editions of Traveller have fallen on different aspects of combat, but none <BR>has been perfect. Let me clarify that: no combat system published within a <BR>Traveller RPG has been perfect, and even the boardgame versions <BR>(Snapshot/AHL) lack in some aspects.<BR>A weakness that runs through all editions is melee combat (ie. combat that <BR>doesn't involve GUNS). CT ignored the complications, MT magnified the <BR>complications into unusability (ask Terry McInnes about a certain merchant <BR>captain's short and bloody knife fight...), TNE tried, but the whole combat <BR>system suffered from a surfeit of hit points (and editing, but I won't drag <BR>that decade-old rant out again), and T4 assumes (often wrongly) that both <BR>combatants are engaged in the same type of combat (and that fists aren't <BR>dangerous, but that's an error that most games make).<BR>What about GURPS? It's weakness is actually in the other direction. As a <BR>game that started as a melee game (literally: GURPS traces its roots to <BR>Metagaming's TFT:Melee) it has trouble doing guns right. We have only to look <BR>at a particular suit of battledress to see how GURPS has chosen to fix the <BR>tendency for guns to become deathrays at high tech levels...<BR><BR>So which of these flawed systems do I prefer?<BR><BR>Answer: none as published.<BR><BR>Which is most easily fixed?<BR><BR>Answer: next time :P<BR><BR>GC<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 15:53:24 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Iris valves<BR><BR>On 12/28/00 at 02:50 PM,&nbsp; Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;Okay, a techie question raised by an Alien question:<BR><BR>&gt;I was watching Alien the other week and noticed that the Nostromo<BR>&gt;has&nbsp; iris valves in the ventilation ducts where Dallas goes but<BR>&gt;does not&nbsp; return.&nbsp; And I remembered reading at least twice here on<BR>&gt;the list&nbsp; that iris valves are impractical, impossible, or<BR>&gt;otherwise silly.&nbsp; Could someone or someones explain this in a bit<BR>&gt;more detail?&nbsp; I'd be&nbsp; curious to know why one of those staples of<BR>&gt;Traveller -- right up&nbsp; there with one-week-jumps and the<BR>&gt;100-diameter limit -- isn't&nbsp; workable.&nbsp; If that is the case.<BR><BR>Doing my best Gary Coleman imitation, "What you saying, Kenji?"<BR><BR>I don't recall reading here that iris values are what Kenji said they were. <BR><BR>We've had our year end Task War and Jump Debate (this year it looks like it was "emergence"), so it's time for a good old gearhead gab. I'll sit back and watch this one. <BR><BR>Resolved, Iris Values are impractical, impossible and otherwise silly. So? Not so? <BR><BR>Have at it, grognards!<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 14:09:57 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: healyzh@aracnet.com<BR>Subject: Re: Iris valves<BR><BR>&gt; Resolved, Iris Values are impractical, impossible and otherwise silly. So? Not so? <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Have at it, grognards!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Eris<BR><BR>From a technical standpoint, how well would they *seal*?&nbsp; It seems to me<BR>that is the real question.&nbsp; After all what good is a leaky hatch?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Zane<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 10:00:20 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Skills in CT<BR><BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>&gt; Or make sure you understand that failure is a relative thing.&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; For JB, a failure might mean that the champaign cork he pops off<BR>&gt; doesn't hit the villian hiding behind the curtain in the eye, but<BR>&gt; instead only startles him into showing himself.<BR><BR>Yes, I like it!&nbsp; I also like it for less JB-like situations.&nbsp; How many<BR>times have I played a game where a character fails a routine<BR>engineering task and the reactor blows up after a 2-minute warning!<BR><BR><BR>&gt; The Ob Traveller is that task systems may come and go, but the Ref's<BR>&gt; judgement remains the key to having a fun game.<BR><BR>Absolutely.&nbsp; It helps to have a task system that doesn't interfere<BR>with the Ref's judgement, and even (if possible) give good guidelines<BR>on how to make such judgements.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 10:07:09 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Character-Defined Task Rolls<BR><BR>James Jensen wrote:<BR>&gt; Yet you say that MT is flawed because when you roll that 4, that 4 points<BR>&gt; coming from chance and only 3 from the character. I ask you to change your<BR>&gt; perspective for a moment and ask yourself this question: Are those 4 points<BR>&gt; *really* from chance?<BR><BR>Not from my point of view, but Kenneth and I seem to have a completely<BR>different perspective on these things.&nbsp; From my point of view, on a<BR>2D6 system ending up with "4", that's 7 points from skill and 3-point<BR>penalty from unknown conditions (call it "bad luck" if you like).<BR><BR><BR>&gt; You don't know the outcome beforehand, but that's NOT chance, IMHO.<BR><BR>I agree here too.&nbsp; The trouble is that in most game systems it looks<BR>like chance and behaves just like chance, so it might as well be<BR>called chance.&nbsp; But that's a different rant, already covered under the<BR>"persistence" thread.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 17:03:03 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: KB3 probabilities<BR><BR>sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; That's what cautious tasks are for.&nbsp; When confronted with an<BR>&gt; Impossible task doing anything other than taking your time and<BR>&gt; being very careful is reserved for extreme experts in emergency<BR>&gt; circumstance.&nbsp; In the MT task system, one of the primary uses for<BR>&gt; Impossible tasks is to provide tasks with a significant chance of<BR>&gt; failure, even if the PC is quite skilled.<BR><BR>Like I said, it's a matter of taste, and like politics and religion, you<BR>could argue that all day until you were blue in the face.<BR><BR>For the record, I stand in the middle of this argument.&nbsp; I see both both<BR>sides, and I am not firmly entrenched with either way of thinking "that<BR>Impossible tasks should be near impossible to make" or that, in a role<BR>playing situation, Impossible tasks should be hard but allow players to make<BR>them make those rolls every once in a while.<BR><BR>I see your point with the Cautious task in MT, and it is valid.<BR><BR>I like MT.&nbsp; I really do.&nbsp; I think it is a great task system.&nbsp; I have a couple<BR>of issues with it.&nbsp; The divide by five thingy and not getting full benefit of<BR>your stat is highest on my list, but really, it's not something I couldn't<BR>live with.<BR><BR>With KB3, I was trying to create something that I could "more than live<BR>with".<BR><BR>The perfect Traveller system, to me, would be one that:<BR><BR>(1)&nbsp; Defines character's task rolls by their stats and skills (or a<BR>define/measuring system).<BR><BR>(2)&nbsp; Has good probabilities for various difficulty.<BR><BR>(3)&nbsp; Multi-dice is OK, but when you start rolling 7+ dice consistently (even<BR>5+ dice consistently), I think the playability of a system breaks down.&nbsp; Star<BR>Wars used a lot of dice--and it's the best game system I've ever used--but it<BR>was a little too dice heavy.&nbsp; In my opinion, the perfect Traveller system<BR>would use a "low" number of dice, but it's not impearative to me that it be<BR>just one or two.<BR><BR>(4)&nbsp; Uses only D6.<BR><BR>(5)&nbsp; Uses full stats (not stat groups like MT).<BR><BR>(6)&nbsp; Is a higher-is-better system (all of this is just my opinion on what<BR>makes for good Traveller gaming).<BR><BR>(7)&nbsp; Allows for opposed rolls.<BR><BR>(8)&nbsp; Allows for both static targets and random difficulty numbers.<BR><BR>(9)&nbsp; Doesn't divide or multiply things...easy addition...easy to understand<BR>game mechanics<BR><BR>(10)&nbsp; Is "elegant" and intuitive in design.&nbsp; Glaring awkward target numbers<BR>or abominations like the d3 are not part of my Traveller vision of Eden.<BR><BR><BR>I'm sure there are other things I could put on this list, but that's what's<BR>coming to my mind right now.<BR><BR>It's a tall order, I know.&nbsp; And, I know that if you just get most of these<BR>things in a system, you've got a good one (and that's why I do like MT a<BR>lot.&nbsp; MT has a lot of good qualities I like to see in a task system.)<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3475<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; 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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-ye02.mx.aol.com (rly-ye02.mail.aol.com [172.18.151.199]) by air-ye04.mail.aol.com (v77.14) with ESMTP; Thu, 28 Dec 2000 18:19:40 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-ye02.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Thu, 28 Dec 2000 18:19:06 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id SAA97613;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thu, 28 Dec 2000 18:05:16 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Thu, 28 Dec 2000 18:05:03 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id SAA97566<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Thu, 28 Dec 2000 18:05:03 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 18:05:03 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012282305.SAA97566@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3475<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3476</B></TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Thursday, December 28 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3476<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>RE: Iris valves<BR>Re: Low standards<BR>Re: Character-Defined Task Rolls<BR>Re: My First Filk<BR>Re: Character-Defined Task Rolls<BR>Re: Famile Spofulam Weapon-naming Conventions<BR>Beowulf Ship Dimensions<BR>Re: Character-Defined Task Rolls<BR>Re: Skills in CT<BR>Traveller Space Combat System<BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>Re: Iris valves<BR>System Traffic: Counting the Ships<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 17:02:30 -0600<BR>From: "Matthew W. Helton" &lt;mwhelton@cox-internet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Iris valves<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Iris Valves are not practical, but they are definitely possible. There are<BR>a number of different types of Iris Valves: I don't know the geometric<BR>designations, but there are some based on perfect circles and others based<BR>on ellipses. Then there are the shutter-style valves, like those used in<BR>cameras, which fold to overlap the edges of the adjacent segment.<BR><BR>I've played with the idea of making a valve out of wood (Using equal sized<BR>ellipses), but the valve ends up being quite large diameter-wise. There are<BR>a number of other methods involving compound curves and unequal-sized<BR>segments that address some of the diameter problems. Getting one to seal<BR>wouldn't be that big of a deal, but it would have to be fairly thick to have<BR>a sealing lip (like a tongue and groove) in order to seal effectively. I<BR>would imagine that there would also be a master segment that would have some<BR>sort of boss or center pin to seal the center.<BR><BR>There are easier ways to seal an access way, airlock or bulkhead. The good<BR>old swinging hatch is hard to beat. If you want something automated,<BR>something along the lines of a hatch that recesses and moves to the side,<BR>like the side door on a van or minivan, or some passenger aircraft is the<BR>way to go.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Matt<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; Resolved, Iris Values are impractical, impossible and otherwise silly. So?<BR>Not so?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Have at it, grognards!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Eris<BR><BR>From a technical standpoint, how well would they *seal*?&nbsp; It seems to me<BR>that is the real question.&nbsp; After all what good is a leaky hatch?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Zane<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 18:21:41 -0500<BR>From: "Thom Harris" &lt;thomharr@mediaone.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: &lt;eris@pcola.gulf.net&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 5:31 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Low standards<BR><BR><BR>&gt; On 12/24/00 at 10:03 AM,&nbsp; Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU&gt;<BR>said:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;On Fri, 22 Dec 2000 eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Ok, how about we get Steve Buscemi to play Lucan...though Michael<BR>&gt; &gt;Madsen (Reservoir Dogs) has the requisite creepy psychopath bit<BR>&gt; &gt;down pat.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I don't know the actors or the film, but I'll be happy to take your word<BR>for it.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Eris<BR><BR>I like Steve B. but would rather see Christofer Walken (sp?) playing that<BR>role.<BR><BR>Thom Harris - GOFIR - &lt;Gnarly Old Fart In Residence&gt;<BR>"I spent most of my money on Wine, Women and Song; the rest I just wasted."<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 17:55:00 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Character-Defined Task Rolls<BR><BR>James Jensen wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; But think of it this way. Take a T4 char with a stat 7 and skill 2<BR>&gt; (proficient-level). Now, treat this as a modifier, and that you have to roll<BR>&gt; upward (for average tasks, the difficulty is 13). This means that you need<BR>&gt; to roll at least a 4 to win.<BR><BR>(snipety--do-daa)<BR><BR>There's two sides to what my argument is.&nbsp; Here's an illustration of the first<BR>side of what I'm saying:<BR><BR>A MT character with Stat-5, Skill-2 has a 92% chance of making an Average roll.<BR><BR>...a MT character with Stat-6, Skill-2 has a 92% chance of making an Average<BR>roll.<BR><BR>...a MT character with Stat-7, Skill-2 has a 92% chance of making an Average<BR>roll.<BR><BR>...a MT character with Stat-8, Skill-2 has a 92% chance of making an Average<BR>roll.<BR><BR>...a MT character with Stat-9, Skill-2 has a 92% chance of making an Average<BR>roll.<BR><BR><BR>One of the things I'm saying is that these numbers should be different because<BR>we're talking about A LARGE point spread here.&nbsp; I mean, 4 places on a scale that<BR>only runs 14 places (2-15) is a large section of the scale.&nbsp; It's almost a<BR>third.<BR><BR><BR><BR>In T4, you'll see some differentation.&nbsp; A character's ability has an (bigger)<BR>influence on success.&nbsp; Each point of Stat means something to the character.<BR><BR>...a T4 character with Stat-5, Skill-2 has a 58% chance of making an Average<BR>roll.<BR><BR>...a T4 character with Stat-6, Skill-2 has a 72% chance of making an Average<BR>roll.<BR><BR>...a T4 character with Stat-7, Skill-2 has a 93% chance of making an Average<BR>roll.<BR><BR>...a T4 character with Stat-8, Skill-2 has a 92% chance of making an Average<BR>roll.<BR><BR>...a T4 character with Stat-9, Skill-2 has a 97% chance of making an Average<BR>roll.<BR><BR><BR>Skills are not powerful enough compared to Stats in T4 (which is why I don't use<BR>it as written--I use KB2.0 when I want to run a T4 game), but that illustrates<BR>my point.<BR><BR>Which is:&nbsp; I think a person's natural ability should have something to do with<BR>his success when he attempts to do something, and I think that Stat-5 is far<BR>enough from Stat-9 to demand (not just warrant) that a character benefit from<BR>his higher stat.&nbsp; In fact, I think that every point of stat should have *some*<BR>influence on the outcome of your roll.<BR><BR><BR>The second part of my argument is more philosophical in nature.&nbsp; We're not<BR>talking percentages here.&nbsp; It wouldn't matter if both systems matched up in the<BR>probability department.<BR><BR>My argument is based on looking at where the numbers come from and what they<BR>represent.&nbsp; What do Stats and Skills represent, and how is this displayed in the<BR>game?<BR><BR>In T4, it's easy to see.&nbsp; One part of your target number comes from your stat.<BR>The other part comes from your skill.&nbsp; The number is completely tied to the<BR>character.&nbsp; The character's natural ability and learned expertise define what<BR>number is thrown against.<BR><BR>I can see exactly where that number came from--what it means--how the character<BR>defined it.<BR><BR>BASICALLY, T4 IS:&nbsp; A generic throw rolled versus a character-defined target<BR>number.<BR><BR>In KB3, you've got the same concept, except you're not talking about target<BR>numbers, you're talking about what a character has to throw at a target number.<BR>He gets 1D for every level of skill.&nbsp; He gets another 1D for the level-0 level<BR>of expertise.&nbsp; The character's Stat measures how well he did.<BR><BR>BASICALLY, KB3 IS:&nbsp; A character-defined throw rolled versus a generic target<BR>number.<BR><BR><BR>Under MT rules, you've got a different type of philosophy.&nbsp; What you have is a<BR>basic, generic roll that everybody can make, against a generic target<BR>number--and the actual character influence on the roll is low.&nbsp; You modify the<BR>roll--skew it--based on character ability, but neither the target number or<BR>throw are character-specific, character-defined.<BR><BR>BASICALLY, MT IS:&nbsp; A generic throw, modified by the character, rolled versus a<BR>generic target number.<BR><BR><BR><BR>When I look at systems like T4 and KB3, I can see why those character's are<BR>throwing what they are allowed to throw.&nbsp; When I look at systems like MT and CT,<BR>I can see why a character modifies the throw the way he does, but I see a<BR>generic throw that is applied to everybody.<BR><BR><BR>I'm not sure how well I've explained this second half of my argument, but maybe<BR>you'll see what I'm talking about.<BR><BR>Then again, maybe I should think of a way to make my point clearer.&nbsp; You tell<BR>me.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 19:35:40 EST<BR>From: GaryBartz@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: My First Filk<BR><BR>In the US Forces the situation is much the same, they are officers. Strangely <BR>enough, they can rise to become Limited Duty Officers with a commissioned <BR>rank, and do so quite often in the Marine Corps. They hold a permeant rank of <BR>(usually) CWO-4 or 5, but are given a rank of captain or major so that they <BR>can lead a large or important maintenance or technical section. Being LDOs <BR>they do not command units.<BR><BR><BR>In a message dated 12/28/00 6:19:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR><BR>&lt;&lt; Basically, they formed the permanent corps of skilled professionals in<BR>the Navy;&nbsp; they were the gunners, coxswains, carpenters, surgeons,<BR>etc.&nbsp; Many of them would have been promoted up from the ranks, but<BR>possession of the Warrant (which, I believe, came from the Admiralty<BR>rather than the Crown) made a big difference.&nbsp; Enlisted men and petty<BR>officers could be promoted, demoted or dismissed by the ship's captain<BR>at will, but Warrant Officers (like commissioned officers) could only<BR>be relieved of their rank by a formal court martial.&nbsp; Also, when a<BR>ship was paid off at the end of its commission, the sailors (and the<BR>commissioned officers, for that matter) would find themselves<BR>unemployed until recruited for a different ship, but the warrant<BR>officers would continue to hold their position and draw full pay.<BR>Socially, of course, they were middle-class rather than being<BR>gentlemen like the commissioned officers, and so could not be trusted<BR>with actual command duties outside their professional functions.<BR>&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 11:57:58 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Character-Defined Task Rolls<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; In fact, I think that every point of stat should have *some*<BR>&gt; influence on the outcome of your roll.<BR><BR>OK -- how about if you make a roll against skill exactly (or miss by<BR>one, whatever takes your fancy), then roll against your stat in some<BR>manner.&nbsp; That cuts down on the number of times you have to roll<BR>multiple times or multiple dice, while still allowing every point of<BR>stat to count by affecting the probability of success.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; BASICALLY, MT IS: A generic throw, modified by the character, rolled<BR>&gt; versus a generic target number.<BR><BR>I see MT as: A skill&amp;stat vs target comparison, modified by chance.<BR><BR>I see KB3 as: A skill vs target comparison, modified by chance.<BR>Success/failure level determination based on stats but inverse with<BR>skill.<BR><BR>I haven't played or seen T4, but from what I've seen posted about it,<BR>it looks like: A skill&amp;stat vs target comparison, modified by chance.<BR><BR><BR>i.e. All fundamentally the same, with only a minor change in how stats<BR>are used and differences in success level determination.&nbsp; (And of<BR>course, in the actual shape of the success chance function)<BR><BR>Just to round things off - GURPS: A skill vs target comparison,<BR>modified by chance.<BR><BR>I've only seen a few systems that don't follow this pattern.&nbsp; One of<BR>them diceless.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 19:24:03 -0600<BR>From: Charles R Hensley &lt;hensley.cr@gte.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Famile Spofulam Weapon-naming Conventions<BR><BR>Mark F. Cook wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Charles R Hensley &lt;hensley.cr@gte.net&gt; writes:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Subject: RE: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground<BR>Forces))<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;It would have to be<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Famile Spofulam<BR>&gt;&gt;Light Weapons<BR>&gt;&gt;Testing Team<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;As nothing at the Oregon Fun Shoot qualifies as a "Heavy Weapon" to<BR>&gt;&gt;Famile Spofulam.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Fine, Charles.&nbsp; *YOU* shoulder-fire the Solothurn! :^)<BR><BR>I said "to Famile Spofulam". By my standards, EVERYTHING at the fun<BR>shoot would qualify as a heavy weapon, but "Charles' Heavy Weapon<BR>Testing Team" would not look as good on a t-shirt.<BR><BR>Charles H<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 01:40:22 -0000<BR>From: "Ben Aaronovitch" &lt;bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Beowulf Ship Dimensions<BR><BR>Does anyone have any idea what the rough dimensions (height, length, width) of<BR>the various 'standard' ships are. I'm particularly interested in Beowulf free<BR>traders.<BR><BR>Ben<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 19:41:56 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Character-Defined Task Rolls<BR><BR>Timothy Little wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; OK -- how about if you make a roll against skill exactly (or miss by<BR>&gt; one, whatever takes your fancy), then roll against your stat in some<BR>&gt; manner.&nbsp; That cuts down on the number of times you have to roll<BR>&gt; multiple times or multiple dice, while still allowing every point of<BR>&gt; stat to count by affecting the probability of success.<BR><BR>Multiple dice are OK in my book, as long as you don't have *too* many (and "too<BR>many" is defined differently by different people--some people balk even if you go<BR>with a 3D system).<BR><BR>Like I said in the other post, I'm OK with a 2D system, and I like muti-dice<BR>systems too--as long as the handful is not *too much*.<BR><BR>If I use a multi-dice system, I'm only rolling once. The action is like rolling<BR>once.&nbsp; I'm throwing one handful.<BR><BR>Two rolls by a player to would be one too many for me.&nbsp; I think one roll should<BR>cover a task.<BR><BR>"Ah..." you say, "but KB3 uses two dice throws."<BR><BR>No, really it doesn't.&nbsp; There's one roll by the player and one roll by the GM.&nbsp; I<BR>was so skeptical about this when I started playing Star Wars with the D6 system,<BR>but it flows.&nbsp; It really, really flows.<BR><BR>And, the back-n-forth nature really did add something to my game.&nbsp; My players like<BR>it.&nbsp; I like it.&nbsp; It's almost intangible what the dicing back and forth added, but<BR>we all noticed how much fun "dicing" became.&nbsp; Throw in some good role playing, and<BR>all of a sudden its a fun night of gaming at Ken's house.<BR><BR>I mentioned this before a while back to someone (I forgot who), but we played a D&amp;D<BR>3rd edition adventure a couple months ago.&nbsp; There's an optional rule in the new<BR>Dungeon Master's Guide where you can dice AC instead of having a static target<BR>number like usual.<BR><BR>Based on our experiences with D6 and Star Wars, I announced to the group that we<BR>would be using that optional rule.&nbsp; If your character attacked an Orc, you would<BR>roll your d20 and add your bonuses in.&nbsp; The GM would then roll his d20 and add in<BR>the Orc's armor and Dex bonuses.&nbsp; If the character won, he hit and did damage.&nbsp; If<BR>the Orc won, he deflected the blow.<BR><BR>Well, I had this one new player who did not go through our Star Wars campaign with<BR>us.&nbsp; He's a straight D&amp;Der, and he about had a fit when I announced that we would<BR>be using the optional rule.<BR><BR>See, he was set in his ways and didn't think dicing attacks like that would be<BR>fun.&nbsp; He wouldn't open his mind and "give it a try".<BR><BR>Well, we played a couple of sessions, and I could tell he was evaluating.&nbsp; By the<BR>third session, he looked up at me, across the table, and he said, in front of all<BR>the players, "Man!&nbsp; Ken, you were right.&nbsp; THIS IS FUN!&nbsp; It's a great way to game."<BR><BR>Like I said, I'm not really sure how to put into words what dicing back and forth<BR>has brought to my games, but I've run a 2.5 year Star Wars game that was<BR>exceptional--one of the funnest campaigns I've ever run.&nbsp; And, eventhough the D&amp;D<BR>genre is not to my tastes anymore, that one adventure we played dicing that way was<BR>fun.<BR><BR>Thus, as I create a task system for Traveller for my group to use, I'm including<BR>the oppossed dicing method.<BR><BR>It's just too fun for me to live without&nbsp; (although I could, if I had to).<BR><BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 19:47:07 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Skills in CT<BR><BR>On 12/29/00 at 10:00 AM,&nbsp; Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; Or make sure you understand that failure is a relative thing.&nbsp; <BR><BR>&gt;&gt; For JB, a failure might mean that the champaign cork he pops off<BR>&gt;&gt; doesn't hit the villian hiding behind the curtain in the eye, but<BR>&gt;&gt; instead only startles him into showing himself.<BR><BR>&gt;Yes, I like it!&nbsp; I also like it for less JB-like situations.&nbsp; How<BR>&gt;many times have I played a game where a character fails a routine<BR>&gt;engineering task and the reactor blows up after a 2-minute warning!<BR><BR>Hee, hee!&nbsp; I had something like that happen once...once!&nbsp; &lt;g&gt; <BR><BR>I decided to stop letting the dice run the game.&nbsp; Now it's a matter<BR>of "the dice suggest, but the Ref decides."&nbsp; It doesn't mean that a<BR>reactor might not blow up with a 2-minute warning, but it would take<BR>more than the failure of a routine Engineering task.&nbsp; Yes, I'll<BR>admit it...I'm not a simulationist.&nbsp; I'm a heretic, with dramatist<BR>tendencies and I'm unrepentent!&nbsp; &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; The Ob Traveller is that task systems may come and go, but the Ref's<BR>&gt;&gt; judgement remains the key to having a fun game.<BR><BR>&gt;Absolutely.&nbsp; It helps to have a task system that doesn't interfere<BR>&gt;with the Ref's judgement, and even (if possible) give good<BR>&gt;guidelines on how to make such judgements.<BR><BR>That's right, but just what that means is going to vary from Ref to<BR>Ref, so I don't think we'll ever get a Task System that everyone can<BR>agree on, nor do I think we should.&nbsp; I do enjoy kicking them around,<BR>though. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 17:58:24 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Traveller Space Combat System<BR><BR>- --0-2078917053-978055105=:28348<BR>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII<BR><BR>Something I've been working around with; I'd be curious about reactions.&nbsp; I<BR>think it may have problems with vehicles being excessively invulnerable,<BR>but that may just reflect problems with FFS, not with these rules per se,<BR>since it might be true in standard space combat as well. Thoughts/ Comments/ Reactions?<BR><BR>I need to add sensible missile rules, but that has its difficulties which I<BR>haven't resolved yet.<BR>- --0-2078917053-978055105=:28348<BR>Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII<BR>Content-Description: tcs.txt<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Traveller Logarithmic Space Combat System<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Introduction<BR><BR>Summary: TLSCS is designed around three goals: realism (within the<BR>constraints of Traveller technology), playability, and scalability.<BR>Originally I made an attempt to use standard dice mechanics, but it<BR>works out that you really can't create a system that is particularly<BR>good statistically which obeys standard die-rolling conventions, so<BR>I dropped that particular requirement.<BR><BR>Realism determines how the attack/evasion rules work. If you have a<BR>laser capable of focusing to a point small enough to burn through<BR>armor, you pretty much need to have good enough aiming that you really<BR>can't meaningfully miss the point you're aiming for. However, at long<BR>distances, your target may not be where you aim -- at one light-second,<BR>you're seeing where the target was a second ago, and your shot won't<BR>arrive for yet another second, giving the target 2 seconds to dodge.<BR>In two seconds, a free trader can move more than 60', which is (somewhat)<BR>more than its diameter, so simply aiming at where the ship was when you<BR>saw it isn't guaranteed to hit. In particular, it takes roughly<BR>(displacement^1/3) * (range^2)/6 Gs to have a 50% chance of evading,<BR>and evasion varies at between the 3rd and 4th power of range (depending<BR>on the evasion scheme used.&nbsp; For a scheme which is optimized so you can<BR>evade short range fire, the result is 3rd power.&nbsp; For a scheme which<BR>is optimized to evade long range fire, the result is 4th power.&nbsp; There<BR>are presumably schemes which lie somewhat inbetween these extremes). <BR>For the basic rules, a 3rd power scheme is used.<BR><BR>Playability and Scalability determined the mechanics used. In particular,<BR>I chose to use a logarithmic system because that's the only one likely<BR>to be scalable.&nbsp; I chose to merge armor and structural toughness because<BR>realistically (a) armor isn't equally thick everywhere, (b) armor doesn't<BR>protect totally even if not penetrated, and (c) the ability to add blast<BR>spaces really does improve the effectiveness of armor anyway.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Basics<BR><BR>For any given vehicle, there are three attributes you are concerned with:<BR>1)&nbsp; Manuever.&nbsp; This is the ship's acceleration in Gs.<BR>2)&nbsp; Evade.&nbsp; This represents the ship's ability to dodge weapons fire.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; It is equal to 5 * log10(Gs) - log4(dTons) + 5.&nbsp; A ship with a<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; positive evasion score can dodge weapons fire at a range of one<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; light-second.<BR>3)&nbsp; Toughness.&nbsp; This represents the ship's ability to resist weapons<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; fire.&nbsp; It is equal to 10 * log10(FFS2 armor value) + log4(dTons).<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; For very lightly armored vehicles, use 5 * log10(mass in tons).<BR>4)&nbsp; Meson Toughness.&nbsp; Use meson screen value instead of armor value.<BR><BR>For any given weapons system, there are two attributes you are interested in:<BR>1)&nbsp; Damage.&nbsp; Equal to 10 * log10(FFS2 damage value).<BR>2)&nbsp; Rate of Fire.&nbsp; Equal to log2(shots per turn per weapon).&nbsp; Multiple<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; identical weapons may be combined if desired.<BR><BR>Rating&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 1&nbsp; &nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 7&nbsp; &nbsp; 8&nbsp; &nbsp; 9&nbsp; &nbsp; 10&nbsp;&nbsp; +10<BR>Armor/Hexes&nbsp; &nbsp; 1&nbsp; &nbsp; 1.3&nbsp; 1.6&nbsp; 2.0&nbsp; 2.5&nbsp; 3.2&nbsp; 4.0&nbsp; 5.0&nbsp; 6.3&nbsp; 8.0&nbsp; 10&nbsp;&nbsp; x10<BR>Energy/Gs&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1&nbsp; &nbsp; 1.6&nbsp; 2.5&nbsp; 4.0&nbsp; 6.3&nbsp; 10&nbsp;&nbsp; 16&nbsp;&nbsp; 25&nbsp;&nbsp; 40&nbsp;&nbsp; 63&nbsp;&nbsp; 100&nbsp; x100<BR>ROF/Batt&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp; &nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; 8&nbsp; &nbsp; 15&nbsp;&nbsp; 30&nbsp;&nbsp; 60&nbsp;&nbsp; 125&nbsp; 250&nbsp; 500&nbsp; 1000 x1000<BR>dTons&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1&nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; 15&nbsp;&nbsp; 60&nbsp;&nbsp; 250&nbsp; 1k&nbsp;&nbsp; 4k&nbsp;&nbsp; 15k&nbsp; 60k&nbsp; 250k 1M&nbsp;&nbsp; x1000000<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Basic Combat<BR><BR>Basic combat is very simple.&nbsp; Simply decide on the engagement range,<BR>and then the procedure is as follows:<BR><BR>1)&nbsp; Determine each ship's modified evasion rating.&nbsp; This is the ship's<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; evasion rating + 10 * log10(light-seconds).&nbsp; If this number is less<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; than zero, treat as zero.&nbsp; If desired, the GM may require a Difficult<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; piloting roll -- failure reduces evasion by 1, spectacular failure<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; reduces evasion by 2.<BR>2)&nbsp; Determine the ROF of of each firing weapon; this is normally the same<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; as the ROF of the weapon.&nbsp; If desired, the GM may require a Difficult<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; gunnery roll -- failure reduces ROF by 1, spectacular failure<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; automatically misses.<BR>3)&nbsp; If ROF is greater than evasion, you hit.&nbsp; Add (ROF-evasion) to damage.<BR>4)&nbsp; If evasion is greater than ROF, you are likely dodged.&nbsp; Roll<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (evasion-ROF)d6; if any die comes up a 4 or greater you are dodged.<BR>5)&nbsp; If ROF and evasion are equal, roll 2d6.&nbsp; If either die comes up 4+,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; you are hit.&nbsp; If both dice come up 4+, you are hit for +1 damage.<BR>6)&nbsp; If you hit, roll 1d6 + weapon damage - toughness.&nbsp; If the result is<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; less than zero, you did negligible damage.&nbsp; If the result is exactly<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; zero, you did one point of damage.&nbsp; If the result is positive, you<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; did as many points of damage as your result.&nbsp; 5+ points of damage in<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; one hit, or 10+ total damage, disables a ship.<BR>7)&nbsp; Repeat as needed.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Optional Enhancements to Basic Combat<BR><BR>1)&nbsp; Short Turns.&nbsp; The default turn is 30 minutes; however, short-range<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; duels between lightly armored ships can easily end in well under<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 30 minutes.&nbsp; To use shorter turns, simply reduce the ROF of all<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; combatants by 1 per halving of turn length.&nbsp; Turns of less than<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 1 minute (-5 ROF) are usually not advised.<BR>2)&nbsp; Trading ROF for damage: even on ships which are armored beyond<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; any normal hope of penetration, lucky shots occur.&nbsp; You may choose<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; to reduce ROF to increase damage, on a 1:1 basis.&nbsp; ROF may be<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; reduced below zero at the GMs option.&nbsp; This is usually only worth<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; doing if you have no chance of penetration.<BR>3)&nbsp; Meson Evasion.&nbsp; Due to the fact that meson weapons can be evaded <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; in three dimensions rather than two, they are much easier to dodge.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Multiply evasion by 1.5.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Example of Basic Combat<BR><BR>For our sample combat, consider a duel between two TL 15 fighters (built<BR>with SSDS).&nbsp; In SSDS terms we have:<BR>280 m^3 needle hull, 7 Gs, AV 125, 105 m^3 manuever, 620 MJ x-ray laser<BR>with ROF 60, military electronics, life support, G-compensation, 210<BR>megawatt power plant (35 m^3), 2.5 weeks fuel, 2 workstations, 11 m^3<BR>empty.&nbsp; 596 tons mass, acceleration 7 Gs.<BR><BR>Stats are: manuever 7, evade +4(7 Gs)-2(20 dTons)+5 = 7, toughness<BR>+21(AV 125)+2(20 dtons) = 23, weapon damage 10:+18(DV 62), 20:+15,<BR>40:+12, 80:+9, ROF +6, Battery +0.<BR><BR>If our two fighters engage at a range of 1 light-second, modified evasion<BR>is 7 (base 7, +0 for range), ROF is 6, so to attack we roll 1d6 and <BR>on a 4+ there is a hit.&nbsp; On a hit, roll 1d6+18-23, which means a roll<BR>of 5 or 6 on 1d6 does 1 hit, for a total average of 1 hit per 6 turns. <BR>The two fighters will kill each other in about 30 hours (yawn).<BR><BR>Assuming the fighters now close to 0.5 light-seconds, modified evasion is<BR>now 4 (base 7, -3 for 0.5 light-seconds), ROF is 6, so we automatically<BR>hit and roll 1d6 +2 (excess ROF) +18 - 23 or an average of 1.17 hits<BR>per turn, reducing the time of engagement down to 4 hours.<BR><BR>If our fighters were engaged at truly point-blank range of 0.1 light<BR>seconds, modified evasion would be -3 (base 7, -10 for 0.1 ls) but<BR>this drops to a minimum of 0.&nbsp; Damage rolls are 1d6+6+18-24, which<BR>means there is a 50% chance of an instant kill, and an average of<BR>1.8 turns for a kill.&nbsp; At this range it's actually useful to consider<BR>shorter turns; if using 4 minute turns ROF bonuses drop from 6 to<BR>3, requiring an average of 6 turns to get a kill.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Advanced Rules<BR><BR>1)&nbsp; Mapped Combat: it is possible to use these rules on a map grid; the<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; standard 0.1 light-second hexes and 30 second turns used in traveller<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; space combat work well enough.&nbsp; The range modifier table, in hexes, is:<BR>Hexes&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp; 5&nbsp;&nbsp; 6&nbsp;&nbsp; 8&nbsp;&nbsp; 10&nbsp; 13&nbsp; 16&nbsp; 20&nbsp; 25&nbsp; 32&nbsp; 40&nbsp; 50&nbsp; 63&nbsp; 80<BR>Range&nbsp;&nbsp; -10 -7&nbsp; -5&nbsp; -4&nbsp; -3&nbsp; -2&nbsp; -1&nbsp; 0&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp; 5&nbsp;&nbsp; 6&nbsp;&nbsp; 7&nbsp;&nbsp; 8&nbsp;&nbsp; 9<BR><BR>2)&nbsp; Manuevering vs Dodging: if you're trying to actually go anywhere, that<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; makes your course significantly more predictable, particularly from<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; the sides (it's easier to wobble than to speed and slow).&nbsp; Adjust<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; evasion (after meson modifiers) as follows (front is defined as<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; within 45 degrees of the direction of acceleration, either forward<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; or backward).<BR>Accel&nbsp;&nbsp; 30%&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 50%&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 70%&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 86%&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 94%&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 97%<BR>Front&nbsp;&nbsp; +0&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +0&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -4<BR>Side&nbsp; &nbsp; +0&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -8<BR>Meson&nbsp;&nbsp; +0&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -8&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -10<BR><BR>3)&nbsp; Range-optimized dodging: you might, for several reasons, want to focus<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; on evading fire from a specific, more distant attacker.&nbsp; This means<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; that your position becomes fairly predictable to closer attackers.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Add +1 to +5 to your evasion score; however, if your adjusted<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; evasion score is not at least 4x what you added, your evasion score<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; is reduced to evade*2-bonus*4.&nbsp; Thus, if our fighters above choose<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; to add +2 to their evasion, an attacker at 1 light-second would have<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; to deal with an evasion of 9, but an attacker at 0.5 light-seconds<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; would not have to deal with a 6, but instead with a 4.&nbsp; The maximum<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; useful evasion bonus is 1/3 your normal evasion score against that<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; target.<BR><BR>4)&nbsp; Facing: needles, wedges, and other narrow configurations can usefully<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; choose which facing is turned towards the enemy; they will typically<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; also be designed so they can accelerate sideways if necessary.&nbsp; Such<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; a design should pick a heading -- within 30 degrees of that facing<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (in either direction) it gets +1 evasion, from 30-60 degrees away <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; it evades normally, from 60-90 degrees it evades at -1.&nbsp; These<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; modifiers do not apply to meson fire.<BR><BR>- --0-2078917053-978055105=:28348--<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 17:49:09 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Matthew Bond wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Doesn't this render the concept of neutrino sensors redundant as per<BR>&gt;&gt; conventional traveller anyway? after all, they are canonically used<BR>&gt;&gt; to *detect* fusion power plants...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Sure, you can detect the fusion plant.&nbsp; You can also detect every star<BR>&gt; within 100 million light years.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; To separate the fusion plants from the stars would be a very difficult<BR>&gt; task.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Actually, it occurs to me that you could possibly distinguish based on<BR>the energy spectrum of the various sources. <BR><BR>&gt; Think of every sunlike star as a 300 000 000 000 000 000 000 MW fusion<BR>&gt; reactor, and maybe you see the problem in looking for the microscopic<BR>&gt; reactors used in starships.<BR><BR>The inverse square law is our friend. :-)<BR><BR>Also, since the fusion reactors *aren't* going to be using the Bethe<BR>cycle, but instead forcing p-p fusion directly, they'll be emitting<BR>neutrinos with a very different energy spectrum. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 17:54:52 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Iris valves<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; There are easier ways to seal an access way, airlock or bulkhead. The good<BR>&gt; old swinging hatch is hard to beat.<BR><BR>The problem with a swinging hatch is that while it provides a good seal<BR>if the high pressure is in the compartment it opens into, it provides<BR>*no* seal if the pressure differential runs the other way. <BR><BR>The best "withstands pressure differentials in either direction" design<BR>I've seen are the Cardassian style airlock doors on Deep Space-9.<BR>Basicly the same as the "rolling block" breach used on some *big* guns.<BR><BR>&gt; If you want something automated,<BR>&gt; something along the lines of a hatch that recesses and moves to the side,<BR>&gt; like the side door on a van or minivan, or some passenger aircraft is the<BR>&gt; way to go.<BR><BR>Except that it *can't "swing out" if there's vacummon on the other<BR>side, unless you've some *really* strong motors. <BR><BR>That's the problem with internal pressure bulkheads. You can't know in<BR>advance *which* side of the bulkhead will have vacuum on it.<BR><BR>So you need either a full double door airlock built so *both* doors<BR>swing out, or you need something that moves *strictly* sideways.<BR>Sliding can work, but has to deal with a lot of friction against the<BR>frame. <BR><BR>The "rolling" design has the "gear teeth" to help because the motor can<BR>try to turn the door rather than merely pull it.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 20:13:23 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: System Traffic: Counting the Ships<BR><BR>The PC's ship in my RDeep PBEM game is inbound to the mainworld in<BR>the Drellesarr system, and one of the players just posted that his<BR>PC is going to pass the time cataloging the ship traffic in system.<BR>Drellesarr is B310550A and should have a pretty good bit of inbound<BR>and outbound traffic, but the question is just how many ships can<BR>Jason "ping" with his sensors?<BR><BR>Checking CT, MT, TNE...Ship Encounter Tables I've got, but<BR>that's not exactly what I want.&nbsp; They've already *had* their<BR>"encounters", all I want is a count of ships in system and some<BR>indication of what they are.<BR><BR>Hum, I can't seem to put my finger on procedures for figuring this<BR>out.&nbsp; I thought this might have been addressed in Far Trader or<BR>Starports, but I couldn't find anything.&nbsp; <BR><BR>I could make it up as I go, of course, but I thought I'd ask here<BR>first.&nbsp; Has anything been written up about this?&nbsp; Anyone have any<BR>house rules they'd like to suggest?<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3476<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Thursday, December 28 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3477<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Beowulf Ship Dimensions<BR>Re: Aliens (was Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR>Re: Alienage (was: Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR>Re: Iris valves<BR>RE: Damn, it's a big country! (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground<BR>Analogy of a Sweet Spot<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: Tim Little<BR>Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>Re: System Traffic: Counting the Ships<BR>RE: Iris valves<BR>Re: Character-Defined Task Rolls<BR>Re: Character-Defined Task Rolls<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 20:30:47 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Beowulf Ship Dimensions<BR><BR>On 12/29/00 at 01:40 AM,&nbsp; "Ben Aaronovitch" &lt;bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;Does anyone have any idea what the rough dimensions (height,<BR>&gt;length, width) of the various 'standard' ships are. I'm<BR>&gt;particularly interested in Beowulf free traders.<BR><BR>Probably, but here's a rough estimate for you.<BR><BR>The Beowulf is a 200 dton ship, so it has 2,800 cubic meters of<BR>volume.&nbsp; TNE lists it as having a length of 43 m, and I think it has<BR>two decks, so that would be about 7 meters.&nbsp; With the length and<BR>height we can figure the width:&nbsp; W = 2800 / (43*7) = 9.3 m.<BR>Therefore, I'd estimate the Beowulf's dimensions as...<BR><BR>Length: 43 m<BR>Width:&nbsp;&nbsp; 9 m<BR>Height:&nbsp; 7 m<BR><BR>...a little less than 2,800 cubic meters, but close enough for<BR>government work. &lt;g&gt; <BR><BR>If you'd like to use nice easy numbers try...<BR><BR>Length: 40 m<BR>Width:&nbsp; 10 m<BR>Height:&nbsp; 7 m<BR><BR>...that works too. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Eris <BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 20:42:06 -0600<BR>From: Leslie Bates &lt;lesbates@minn.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Aliens (was Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;The way I see it, Alien was a Horror mvie, Aliens was a War movie, Alien3<BR>&gt;&gt;might have been a Good Film, <BR><BR>&gt;"Aliens will have you on the edge of your seat;<BR><BR>The first time I saw ALIENS I caught myself hanging on to the seat to avoid<BR>being sucked out the airlock.<BR><BR>Les<BR><BR>====================================<BR>Revolutionaries are not nice people.<BR>==================================== <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 02:03:24 -0000<BR>From: "Ben Aaronovitch" &lt;bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Alienage (was: Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR><BR>What I like about TML is that it's so damn educational!<BR><BR>Ben<BR><BR>'Let's be honest here - you paid for the women.'<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Bill Murrey - Scrooged<BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: Stephen Tempest &lt;TML@stempest.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 7:27 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Alienage (was: Re: Noble vs. military rank)<BR><BR><BR>"Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt; writes:<BR><BR>&gt;Ripley: "loignez d'elle, vous chienne!"<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Well, kinda.<BR><BR>She's being rather formal, isn't she?&nbsp; I'd have thought she'd use the<BR>"tu" form.&nbsp; (Unless she considers the Alien Queen to be royalty, of<BR>course;&nbsp; and then of course Ripley's not yet part of the family...)<BR><BR>I'd go for "Laisse-la, espce de chienne!" myself.<BR><BR>Stephen<BR><BR>"Jag tycker vi lyfter och bombar hela skiten frn luften.&nbsp; Det enda<BR>sttet att vara helt sker." - Aliens, Swedish subtitled version.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 19:04:04 -0800<BR>From: Gordon Horne &lt;gordon.horne@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Iris valves<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; There are easier ways to seal an access way, airlock or bulkhead. The good<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; old swinging hatch is hard to beat.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;The problem with a swinging hatch is that while it provides a good seal<BR>&gt;if the high pressure is in the compartment it opens into, it provides<BR>&gt;*no* seal if the pressure differential runs the other way.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;[snip]<BR><BR>In space construction you generally know which side of a hatch is <BR>likely to be pressurized (the side with people) and which side is <BR>likely to be in vacuum (the side with stars).<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; If you want something automated,<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; something along the lines of a hatch that recesses and moves to the side,<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; like the side door on a van or minivan, or some passenger aircraft is the<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; way to go.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Except that it *can't "swing out" if there's vacuum on on the other<BR>&gt;side, unless you've some *really* strong motors.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;That's the problem with internal pressure bulkheads. You can't know in<BR>&gt;advance *which* side of the bulkhead will have vacuum on it.<BR>&gt;<BR>[snip]<BR><BR>If you're opening a door which is only pressurized on one side, you <BR>apparently don't care if you spill your air. Put a valve in the <BR>bulkhead to equalize pressure /before/ opening the door. Slower <BR>decompression is also safer. If you don't want to dump your air, <BR>pressure sealed hatches are a nice safety feature. You can play the <BR>odds by having all hatches swing in towards the center of the <BR>structure. It is probable that outboard compartments will be in <BR>vacuum before inboard compartments.<BR><BR>TTFN<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; g<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 22:13:40 -0500<BR>From: "Terry Carlino" &lt;carlino@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Damn, it's a big country! (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; On Mon, 18 Dec 2000 04:57:23 -0500 (EST), "Mikko V. I. Parviainen"<BR>&gt;&gt; &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;And the US is small... What have you, four time zones? Our friendly<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;eastern neighbour spans eleven, count them, eleven time zones.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;(Ok, Hawaii might count as fifth, I don't know.)<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Six: Eastern, Central, Mountain, Pacific, Alaska, Hawaii.&nbsp; There's _two_<BR>&gt;&gt; hours difference between Alaska and Pacific; the country actually spans<BR>&gt;&gt; seven zones, with no land in one of them.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Nope. Alaska is only one hour off of Pacific.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Here's a chart I put together from info from some web sites a couple of<BR>&gt;years back. Note that I was wrong on a previous post. "Standard" time<BR>&gt;zones range from -12 to +14, not -13 to +13.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>The really interesting thing to me is that until the railroads standardized<BR>time into 4 time zones in the continental U.S. most ***cities*** were<BR>standardized on solar time. At noon in D.C. it was 12:12 in New York, 12:24<BR>in Boston and 11:53 in Buffalo. The railroads standardized on Nov 18, 1883.<BR><BR>Dragging this back to Traveller. The Imperium requires that the Imperial<BR>Calendar be used. But each world seems to set its own local clock. I suspect<BR>most PC's would assume that time zones would be set as they are on Earth.<BR>Assumption can be real dangerous :).&nbsp; And of course on, or in places where<BR>there is no solar day how will the locals set their clocks? Will two cities<BR>which are both underground on a vacuum world use the Imperial equivalent to<BR>GMT, or will they use time based on the preferences of their original<BR>founders?<BR><BR>Terry C<BR>All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>Not all who travel are lost<BR><BR>ort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 21:24:11 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Analogy of a Sweet Spot<BR><BR>NOTE:<BR>This post is long...<BR><BR>..., but it is also the most enlightening set of words I've devoted to<BR>KB3 yet.&nbsp; I can't figure the probability &lt;g&gt;, but if you take your time<BR>and read what I'm saying here completely, there is a chance that you<BR>will be amazed.<BR><BR>I was.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -KB<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>You know, I've been tearing over this KB3 system, trying to figure out<BR>how I went wrong with the problem mentioned about Greater Success<BR>becoming less and less likely the higher skilled you are, and I<BR>realized...<BR><BR>...I didn't go wrong.<BR><BR>The system does stand as it is, without changing a thing.<BR><BR>See, with all the talk back and forth over the last week, and me trying<BR>to please everyone with an option of no E-Die for those who don't want<BR>to use it, and an option for static target numbers for those who didn't<BR>want random numbers, I lost the logic of the system.<BR><BR>My thinking had returned to "higher-is-better" thinking--what I'm used<BR>to.<BR><BR>KB3 is a "sweet spot" system.&nbsp; The logic behind a system like this is<BR>that a controlled, directed, effort is needed.&nbsp; You need enough to<BR>attain your goal, and anything over that is a waste of effort.<BR><BR>I thought of an analogy that fits "sweet spot" thinking well, and I<BR>thought I'd share it with you.....<BR><BR><BR><BR>You can look at two fighters in a bar brawl.&nbsp; One is your standard,<BR>everyday, bar brawler.&nbsp; Another is a highly trained martial artist.<BR><BR>The brawler is a "higher is better" kind of fighter.&nbsp; He's going to<BR>throw everything he's got at you, and the more effort he expends, the<BR>more likely he'll win.&nbsp; He may have a lot of wasted attacks that do not<BR>damage his opponent, but he succeeds through pure brute force, bowling<BR>over his obstacles.<BR><BR>If you turn and see the martial artist, you see another type of<BR>fighter.&nbsp; He's looking to throw that one, controlled strike that will<BR>defeat his opponent.&nbsp; He wants to slap his fist out like lightning,<BR>hitting with his two front knuckles, slamming his opponent in the<BR>throat, downing him in one blow.<BR><BR>This martial artist is not a "quanity" (the more hits the better)<BR>fighter.&nbsp; He's a "quality" (well placed, controlled, knowledgeable<BR>attacks are better) fighter.<BR><BR>The matial artist is looking for the "sweet spot".<BR><BR>Like a bullet piercing a man, doing damage through kinetic energy--you<BR>need enough power to penetrate armor and damage your target, but a lot<BR>of energy is wasted and is just carried through (thus the KE rule in T4<BR>that limits slug damage to 3D after armor penetration).<BR><BR><BR><BR>Their have been some varied "opinions" on KB3 (some like it, some<BR>don't...as expected!), but the only real structure challenge to the<BR>system has been the comment that GypsyCommet made about how KB3<BR>determines Greater Success.<BR><BR>He said, basically, that the chance that GS will occur gets lower, the<BR>more skilled you are.&nbsp; And, he's right if you go with strict<BR>"higher-is-better" thinking.<BR><BR>I'll illustrate, using the example he used:&nbsp; You've got Joe Normal,<BR>Stat-7, and we're going to throw an Average task (we'll use a static 7+<BR>roll for easier example purposes) with skill levels 0-6.<BR><BR>- ------------------------------------<BR><BR>Joe Normal<BR>Average Throw of 7+<BR>GS made if throw is less than Stat-7<BR><BR>Skill-0<BR>Throw 1D<BR>Task Success 0%&nbsp; (We're not using the E-Die in this example)<BR>GS on 7-<BR>GS not possible.<BR><BR>Skill-1<BR>Throw 2D<BR>Task Success 58%<BR>GS on 7<BR>GS 17%<BR><BR>Skill-2<BR>Throw 3D<BR>Task Success 91%<BR>GS on 7<BR>GS 7%<BR><BR>Skill-3<BR>Throw 4D<BR>Task Success 99%<BR>GS on 7<BR>GS 2%<BR><BR>Skill-4<BR>Throw 5D<BR>Task Success 100% (rounded)<BR>GS on 7<BR>GS 0.2%<BR><BR>Skill-5<BR>Throw 6D<BR>Task Success 100% (rounded)<BR>GS on 7<BR>GS 0.01%<BR><BR>Skill-6<BR>Throw 7D<BR>Task Success 100%<BR>GS on 7<BR>GS 0.0004%<BR><BR>- ------------------------------------<BR><BR>Yep.&nbsp; Definitely.&nbsp; Look at those GS percentage numbers just tick on down<BR>when we increase Joe's skill level.<BR><BR>BUT, THIS IS NOT WRONG IN KB3!!!!!!<BR><BR>It is reflecting the "sweet spot" nature of the system.&nbsp; Joe only needs<BR>to make a doggone 7!&nbsp; There at the end, we're throwing 7 dice in order<BR>to make a roll of 7 or better!!!!<BR><BR>We're throwing too much at it.&nbsp; We're wasting the character's energy and<BR>ability.&nbsp; The "sweet spot" logic of the system is kicking in.<BR><BR>Look at those percentages on the task success!!!&nbsp; We're wasting our<BR>skill "energy", blowing through, not using our skill to our best<BR>advantage!<BR><BR>Throwing 7D to make 7+ is the "higher-is-better" in us talking.&nbsp; We're<BR>not used to the "just-enough-is-best" logic of a "sweet spot" system.<BR><BR>Still, a Traveller character SHOULD NOT BE PENALIZED for having a high<BR>skill.&nbsp; Quite the contrary, he should be rewarded.<BR><BR>And believe it or not (it even slipped past me--and I wrote the doggone<BR>rules!), KB3 does handle this situation nicely as written.&nbsp; Take a look<BR>at the revised summary I posted a couple of days ago.&nbsp; There are options<BR>for using your skills.&nbsp; KB3 characters don't have to blindly use their<BR>skill points to gain D6 to throw at a target.&nbsp; You can also reduce your<BR>target number with your skill points.&nbsp; You can increase your stat for<BR>measuring purposes too.<BR><BR>Those skill options allow you to take full advantage of your skill--but<BR>instead of it being built into the system like it is in a<BR>higher-is-better set of mechanics, KB3 allows a player to "pick" his<BR>best advantage.<BR><BR>Some people will have a different taste for this.&nbsp; Some want to just<BR>throw dice, decide on the pass or the fail, and keep on trucking.<BR><BR>But, for you other types of players and GMs out there, like me and my<BR>group, KB3 will give you another way to go--another option.&nbsp; Players<BR>have a say in how their advantages work for them.<BR><BR>You can "blow" a target number over, if you like, throwing all your dice<BR>at it (as we did in the example above).&nbsp; Or, you can use one of the four<BR>skill options to better tailor your skill to the particular task at<BR>hand.<BR><BR>I'll show you what I mean.<BR><BR>One of the KB3 skill options is to reduce your target number with your<BR>skill level.&nbsp; If you employ this one rule option, you change the whole<BR>dynamic of the throw we used in the example above.<BR><BR>Let's go back to Joe Normal.&nbsp; He's still got Stat-7, and we'll still<BR>roll an Average task using a static target number of 7+.&nbsp; But, this<BR>time, we'll use the KB3 skill option on some of the throws, and this<BR>time....using the "sweet spot" logic to our best advantage...we'll<BR>actually INCREASE the chance that GS will happen.<BR><BR>We'll say that the task at hand is not that important to Joe.&nbsp; Our first<BR>concern, using KB3, is "are we going to achieve success", so we have to<BR>use enough dice to afford ourselves a comfortable margin.&nbsp; The target<BR>number is 7+, and Joe wants to succeed.&nbsp; But since success is not that<BR>important to him, we'll top out at 2D versus the 7+ target number, using<BR>the skill option to reduce our target number once we're throwing 2D.<BR>Joe is comfortable with the high failure rate (if he wasn't, he might<BR>throw 3D instead).<BR><BR>See, as a player using KB3, you're more involved with how your character<BR>attempts a task.&nbsp; I've found that my group likes this sort of thing (and<BR>KB3 is, ultimately, for us), but I am also positive that this idea will<BR>be so foreign to some of you Traveller players out there that it will<BR>immediately turn you off.<BR><BR>Hey, to each his own.&nbsp; Some people actually "like" TNE rules in<BR>Traveller!<BR><BR>(That was a little joke, by the way.)<BR><BR>But, if this idea even intrigues you a little bit, I encourage you to<BR>try it.&nbsp; It makes for very, very fun gaming.<BR><BR>So, let's run the same rolls we did above, but this time, we'll use one<BR>of the KB3 skill options.<BR><BR>- ------------------------------------<BR><BR>Joe Normal<BR>Average Throw of 7+<BR>GS made if throw is less than Stat-7<BR>KB3 skill option used on some throws.<BR><BR>Skill-0<BR>Throw 1D<BR>Task Success 0%&nbsp; (We're not using the E-Die in this example.)<BR>GS on 7-<BR>GS not possible.<BR><BR>Skill-1<BR>Throw 2D<BR>Task Success 58%<BR>GS on 7<BR>GS 17%<BR><BR>Skill-2<BR>Throw 2D<BR>Reduce target number from 7+ to 6+.<BR>Task Success 72%<BR>GS on 6-7<BR>GS 31%<BR><BR>Skill-3<BR>Throw 2D<BR>Reduce target number from 7+ to 5+.<BR>Task Success 83%<BR>GS on 5-6-7<BR>GS 42%<BR><BR>Skill-4<BR>Throw 2D<BR>Reduce target number from 7+ to 4+.<BR>Task Success 92%<BR>GS on 4-5-6-7<BR>GS 50%<BR><BR>Skill-5<BR>Throw 2D<BR>Reduce target number from 7+ to 3+.<BR>Task Success 97%<BR>GS on 3-4-5-6-7<BR>GS 56%<BR><BR>Skill-6<BR>Throw 1D<BR>Reduce target number from 7+ to 1+.<BR>Task Success 100%<BR>GS on 1-2-3-4-5-67<BR>GS 100%<BR><BR>- ------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 19:29:07 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>&gt;From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR>...<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; BTW, that's another point in favour of single die (d20) - at least<BR>&gt;&gt; in wargames, where the effects of target size modifiers<BR>&gt;&gt; (e.g. Striker, 2d6 for 12+ at Extreme range, but target is +2<BR>&gt;&gt; size...) can really warp the heck out of your bell-curves "expected"<BR>&gt;&gt; results.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;You'd expect to be able to hit bigger things at longer ranges.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Hills, mostly :&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; Specifically, the point is that predictions about the effects of h/w<BR>statistics, or gunner skills, go to hell when you don't know where on<BR>the bell-curve the modifiers will be applied; +2 at 15+ on d20 means<BR>going from 30-&gt;40%, whereas a mere +1 at 12 on 2d6 triples your chance!<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Steven Hudson<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 21:30:48 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Tim Little<BR><BR>Timothy Little wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Difficulty&nbsp; Dice Mean&nbsp; Median<BR>&gt; ----------&nbsp; ---- ----&nbsp; ------<BR>&gt; Easy&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1D&nbsp;&nbsp; 4.3&nbsp;&nbsp; 3.5<BR>&gt; Average&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2D&nbsp;&nbsp; 7.8&nbsp;&nbsp; 7<BR>&gt; Difficult&nbsp;&nbsp; 3D&nbsp;&nbsp; 11.3&nbsp; 11<BR>&gt; Formidable&nbsp; 4D&nbsp;&nbsp; 14.8&nbsp; 14<BR>&gt; Staggering&nbsp; 5D&nbsp;&nbsp; 18.3&nbsp; 18<BR>&gt; Impossible&nbsp; 6D&nbsp;&nbsp; 21.8&nbsp; 21<BR><BR>Tim,<BR><BR>When you ran these numbers, did you include the E-Die?&nbsp; Or do these numbers reflect straight<BR>dice rolls?<BR><BR>Thanks,<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 21:32:04 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Perfect 2d6 System<BR><BR>Steven Hudson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Hills, mostly :&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Steven Hudson<BR><BR>Steve...brother in arms...fellow war gamer...<BR><BR>Man, I miss war games.&nbsp; Use to love that stuff.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 22:36:01 EST<BR>From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: System Traffic: Counting the Ships<BR><BR>In a message dated 12/28/00 9:13:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net writes:<BR><BR>&gt; Hum, I can't seem to put my finger on procedures for figuring this<BR>&gt;&nbsp; out.&nbsp; I thought this might have been addressed in Far Trader or<BR>&gt;&nbsp; Starports, but I couldn't find anything.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Actually, you should be able to estimate this using Far Trader, I<BR>should think.&nbsp; Let me take a stab at some reasonable rules of <BR>thumb.<BR><BR>On p. 16 there's a table indicating what volume of traffic each BTN<BR>brings in, including a column for approximate dtons per week.&nbsp; Go<BR>through all the trade routes touching on Drellesaar, generate the<BR>exact values for the amount of cargo coming in from each route<BR>this week, and figure about one 10,000-ton megafreighter is in-<BR>system for every 5,000 dtons of cargo.&nbsp; For smaller amounts,<BR>figure maybe one 1,000-ton freighter for every 300 tons of cargo,<BR>or one free trader for every 50 tons of cargo (smaller ships carrying<BR>less cargo in proportion).<BR><BR>Of all the ships in-system, only about a third are likely to be in<BR>space at any given time -- the rest are grounded at the starport.<BR>On the other hand, there's probably some amount of other tonnage<BR>in space too: escorts and patrol craft, the occasional scientific<BR>or private vessel, and whatnot.&nbsp; Call that tonnage about equal in<BR>size and distribution to the merchies.<BR><BR>Sound reasonable?<BR><BR>- ----------<BR>Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>set of people who will take offense at it."<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 21:36:21 -0600<BR>From: "Matthew W. Helton" &lt;mwhelton@cox-internet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Iris valves<BR><BR>Re: Cardassian Airlock<BR><BR>"The "rolling" design has the "gear teeth" to help because the motor can<BR>try to turn the door rather than merely pull it."<BR>Good point, but you still have the same limitations as a sliding door, but<BR>now at least, you have the possibility of creating a seal without relying on<BR>pressure differences directly to hold the seal (e.g. having both sides of<BR>the door extend and retract like a piston into the circular openings to<BR>create a non-directional seal). Still, opening and closing the door with a<BR>large pressure differential would still be impractical, because of the<BR>mechanics of the door itself:&nbsp; the stress on the doorframe as the door<BR>rolled back would be incredible, and you would be forced to use some sort of<BR>mechanical bearing.<BR>You might need something as clumsy as an iris valve, because if you have to<BR>deal with a design that can open with a significant pressure differential on<BR>both sides, you are going to need a great deal of bearing surface to spread<BR>the load out over. An Iris Valve would have the advantage of spreading the<BR>load more evenly around the doorframe, and over a larger total area. The<BR>only kind of bearing I can envision withstanding that kind of pressure and<BR>still being able to move freely is an isometric hydraulic or pneumatic<BR>bearing scheme. You would have to dedicate a substantial amount of the<BR>surface area of the portal to extend into the bearing, even when closed. On<BR>second thought, an Iris Valve might not be as bad as it sounds at first<BR>blush.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Best,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 21:39:32 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Character-Defined Task Rolls<BR><BR>On 12/28/00 at 05:55 PM,&nbsp; Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;(snipety--do-daa)<BR><BR>&gt;There's two sides to what my argument is.&nbsp; Here's an illustration<BR>&gt;of the first side of what I'm saying:<BR><BR>&gt;A MT character with Stat-5, Skill-2 has a 92% chance of making an<BR>&gt;Average roll.<BR><BR>&gt;...a MT character with Stat-6, Skill-2 has a 92% chance of making<BR>&gt;an Average roll.<BR><BR>&gt;...a MT character with Stat-7, Skill-2 has a 92% chance of making<BR>&gt;an Average roll.<BR><BR>&gt;...a MT character with Stat-8, Skill-2 has a 92% chance of making<BR>&gt;an Average roll.<BR><BR>&gt;...a MT character with Stat-9, Skill-2 has a 92% chance of making<BR>&gt;an Average roll.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;One of the things I'm saying is that these numbers should be<BR>&gt;different because we're talking about A LARGE point spread here.&nbsp; I<BR>&gt;mean, 4 places on a scale that only runs 14 places (2-15) is a<BR>&gt;large section of the scale.&nbsp; It's almost a third.<BR><BR>I'm going to add what you'd get from&nbsp; KB2...just because. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;In T4, you'll see some differentation.&nbsp; A character's ability has<BR>&gt;an (bigger) influence on success.&nbsp; Each point of Stat means<BR>&gt;something to the character.<BR><BR>&gt;...a T4 character with Stat-5, Skill-2 has a 58% chance of making<BR>&gt;an Average roll.<BR><BR>KB2&nbsp; 63%<BR><BR>&gt;...a T4 character with Stat-6, Skill-2 has a 72% chance of making<BR>&gt;an Average roll.<BR><BR>KB2&nbsp; 74%<BR><BR>&gt;...a T4 character with Stat-7, Skill-2 has a 93% chance of making<BR>&gt;an Average roll.<BR><BR>KB2&nbsp; 84%<BR><BR>&gt;...a T4 character with Stat-8, Skill-2 has a 92% chance of making<BR>&gt;an Average roll.<BR><BR>KB2&nbsp; 91%<BR><BR>&gt;...a T4 character with Stat-9, Skill-2 has a 97% chance of making<BR>&gt;an Average roll.<BR><BR>KB2&nbsp; 95%<BR><BR>&gt;Skills are not powerful enough compared to Stats in T4 (which is<BR>&gt;why I don't use it as written--I use KB2.0 when I want to run a T4<BR>&gt;game), but that illustrates my point.<BR><BR>Not as well as showing that the BCS progression is *about* the same T4 alone if the stat increases and the skill stays the same. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&lt;snip the rest which I'm not going to try to get into &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 21:48:24 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Character-Defined Task Rolls<BR><BR>On 12/29/00 at 11:57 AM,&nbsp; Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;I see MT as: A skill&amp;stat vs target comparison, modified by chance.<BR><BR>&gt;I see KB3 as: A skill vs target comparison, modified by chance.<BR>&gt;Success/failure level determination based on stats but inverse with<BR>&gt;skill.<BR><BR>&gt;I haven't played or seen T4, but from what I've seen posted about<BR>&gt;it, it looks like: A skill&amp;stat vs target comparison, modified by<BR>&gt;chance.<BR><BR>Yep, that about sums them up IMO, too.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;i.e. All fundamentally the same, with only a minor change in how<BR>&gt;stats are used and differences in success level determination. <BR>&gt;(And of course, in the actual shape of the success chance function)<BR><BR>&gt;Just to round things off - GURPS: A skill vs target comparison,<BR>&gt;modified by chance.<BR><BR>Hum, well I'd make a slight change here...<BR><BR>GURPS: A skill (based on a stat) vs target comparison.<BR><BR>I mean in GURPS, a skill like Lockpick has a base which starts as DX-3 (I think...or is it IQ-3?&nbsp; Anyway, it's based on a stat and if the stat is raised or lowered so is the skill it is based on. So, in reality, GURPS is skill + (stat-x) vs target comparison...or pretty much like MT or T4.<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3477<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-xd05.mx.aol.com (rly-xd05.mail.aol.com [172.20.105.170]) by air-xd03.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Thu, 28 Dec 2000 23:29:26 -0500<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-xd05.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Thu, 28 Dec 2000 23:29:00 -0500<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id WAA22072;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thu, 28 Dec 2000 22:53:44 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Thu, 28 Dec 2000 22:53:35 -0500<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id WAA22018<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Thu, 28 Dec 2000 22:53:35 -0500 (EST)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 22:53:35 -0500 (EST)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200012290353.WAA22018@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3477<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD>12/28/00 10:52:41 PM Pacific Standard Time</TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Friday, December 29 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3478<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Skills in CT<BR>RE: H&amp;E The End<BR>Re: Fwd: Famile Spofulam Weapon-naming Conventions<BR>Re: HazMat was ACQ was RE: BITS adventures...<BR>Re: Character-Defined Task Rolls<BR>Re: Lend-Lease (with ObTrav's!!)<BR>Re : Health Care in the US (was : Re : Naming Laws)<BR>Re: System Traffic: Counting the Ships<BR>Re: Iris valves<BR>RE: Iris valves<BR>Re: Character-Defined Task Rolls<BR>Re: Character-Defined Task Rolls<BR>RE: Iris valves<BR>Re: Jump emergence<BR>RE: Iris valves<BR>Re: Skills in CT (long tasks?)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 19:56:01 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: Skills in CT<BR><BR>&gt;From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>...<BR>&gt;Yes...why *yes* it would! Steven, I don't mind there being a lot of rules,<BR>but I tend to use very few of them in actual play. I don't want to look up<BR>rules, consult tables, or do calculations while Reffing or playing. Okay,<BR>some of that *has* to be done, but I minimize it as much as possible.<BR>Sometimes that means changing the rules, sometimes it simply means ignoring<BR>them. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Which is an approach that's _much_ easier in CT than in many other games.<BR>Mind you, if I wanted to run (e.g.) a merc campaign with detailed skirmish<BR>combats, then I'd likely gravitate to MT or TNE - except that the orthodox<BR>response would have to be "tighten up CT loopholes &amp; use _Striker_" :&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Steven Hudson<BR><BR>The CT Creed: There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its Product<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 23:02:04 -0500<BR>From: "Terry Carlino" &lt;carlino@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: H&amp;E The End<BR><BR>As I often am I am very behind in my reading, (I could blame all the time<BR>I'm spending on the Pyramid playtest board for Starships, but that wouldn't<BR>be couth:) )<BR><BR>Let me just say that this is a most excellent program. And that I really<BR>appreciate the work you put into it. Unfortunately I haven't really had the<BR>time to put it through it's paces, and so find errors. (Right now I'm<BR>running a GURPS Crosstime campaign, that started as a GT adventure, but<BR>rapidly degenerated into a run through several parallel worlds, one of which<BR>is a heretical TNE universe, minus virus.) So I haven't been generating a<BR>lot of star systems lately.<BR><BR>Still I'm always sad to see an excellent tool stop evolving.&nbsp; Thank you for<BR>the effort.<BR><BR>Terry C<BR>All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>Not all who travel are lost<BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Stuart Ferris<BR>Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 2:56 PM<BR>To: WBDMailingList@egroups.com; [Mail] Traveller Digest<BR>Subject: H&amp;E The End<BR><BR>After taking some time to mull over things I have decided to stop developing<BR>Heaven &amp; Earth.<BR><BR>The program has always been free and the only thing that I have asked for in<BR>return is feedback, testing and bug reports. Over the past few months this<BR>has become less and less forthcoming to a point where I have had to reassess<BR>my own contribution.<BR><BR>I have enjoyed working on the program and truly wish it was possible to<BR>continue to develop it as I thought the program still had a lot of future<BR>potential. However, I have come to realise that a lot of people are selfish<BR>and whilst they will happily take, they very rarely give.<BR><BR>A small group of people have contributed to the program and I thank them for<BR>their support in the past two years<BR><BR>The Website, Mirrors and Mailing Lists will remain open until the new year<BR>when all H&amp;E content will be removed.<BR><BR>Stuart Ferris<BR>stuart.ferris@virgin.net<BR>http://freespace.virgin.net/stuart.ferris/index.htm<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 22:05:18 -0600<BR>From: Charles R Hensley &lt;hensley.cr@gte.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Fwd: Famile Spofulam Weapon-naming Conventions<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;In mail you write:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Charles R Hensley &lt;hensley.cr@gte.net&gt; writes:<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;Subject: RE: Bar-B-Que vs Barbecue (was Re: Naming laws (was: Ground<BR>&gt;&gt; Forces))<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;It would have to be<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Famile Spofulam<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;Light Weapons<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;Testing Team<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;As nothing at the Oregon Fun Shoot qualifies as a "Heavy Weapon" to<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;Famile Spofulam.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Fine, Charles.&nbsp; *YOU* shoulder-fire the Solothurn! :^)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;The hell with *firing* it. I want to see him *shoulder* it. :-)<BR><BR>OK, I finally got to see all of the published pics of the Dec shoot.&nbsp; I<BR>will admit that the Solothurn might be classified as a heavy weapon by<BR>Famile Spofulam.&nbsp; Remember that Famile Spofulam has different standards<BR>for light and heavy than the rest of the universe.<BR><BR>As for shouldering it, sure just put a grav generator on it. But if I<BR>fire it, who would drive to the next county and give me a ride back.<BR>:-)<BR><BR>I also finally saw a weapon in the pics that I would not classify as a<BR>heavy weapon for myself. HK Mk23 SOCOM and Bennelli shotguns.<BR><BR>Charles H<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 22:09:34 -0600<BR>From: Charles R Hensley &lt;hensley.cr@gte.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: HazMat was ACQ was RE: BITS adventures...<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; The little yellow DOT handbook is really great for general use.&nbsp; It<BR>lists<BR>&gt;&gt; chemicals by placard number or name/descriptor keyed to generic<BR>instruction<BR>&gt;&gt; pages telling what to do or what not to do in case of a spill.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;And the ref gets to teach players why folks turn white when they see<BR>&gt;that "diamond" sign with 3 "4"s on it. :-)<BR><BR>Leonard, you owe me a beer,&nbsp; sorry no keyboards were injured.<BR><BR>Charles H<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 22:13:50 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Character-Defined Task Rolls<BR><BR>James,<BR><BR>I figured a better way to state my point about the MT system not being<BR>"character-defined".&nbsp; This is short, and sweet, and (hopefully) clearer<BR>this time.<BR><BR>Let's look at Michael Tanner, the MT character.&nbsp; He's got Dex-4, he's<BR>using a pistol, and he doesn't have a pistol skill, so he's using the<BR>default Pistol-0.<BR><BR>When Michael makes his throw, he'll throw 2D6 (doesn't matter the<BR>difficulty--he'll throw 2D6 on all of 'em).<BR><BR>NOTHING about that throw is tied to the character.&nbsp; It's a straight 2D6<BR>throw...completely generic...completely independent of anything that<BR>makes the character a character.<BR><BR>It's like dicing in Risk (the boardgame).<BR><BR>What makes his throw unique to him?&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Nothing.<BR><BR>What about the difficulty is unique to Michael?&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Nothing.<BR><BR>What makes his throw different from his buddy (who's using a default<BR>skill too) who got shot, had his Dex reduced to Dex-1, and is about to<BR>pass out?<BR><BR>Nothing.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Now, look at T4.&nbsp; Thomas Fore, the T4 character, is a kindred spirit to<BR>Michael Tanner.&nbsp; Thomas has Dex-4, Pistol-0 too.<BR><BR>BUT...<BR><BR>Thomas will have to throw 4- on his throws (it doesn't matter the<BR>difficulty, he's got to throw 4- on all of them).<BR><BR>See?&nbsp; That "4-" IS tied to the character.&nbsp; The "4-" represents something<BR>about the character's natural ability and his expertise with a pistol.<BR><BR>There is a HUGE difference between him and his buddy, who got shot, with<BR>a reduced Dex-1 (because that guy, for all practical purposes, cannot<BR>attack with a difficulty number of "1").<BR><BR>No matter how you slice it in T4, your roll is "representative" of the<BR>character you are dicing for.&nbsp; It's not a generic system modified by the<BR>character, like in MT.&nbsp; In T4, your throw is "defined" by the character.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>And, for another view point (because my system does things differently<BR>than T4), take a look at KB3.<BR><BR>Kirk Bradshaw III is a KB3 character.&nbsp; He's got Dex-4, and he doesn't<BR>have pistol, but it is a default skill so he's got Pistol-0.<BR><BR>When Kirk throws to hit, he throws 1D...which is based on THAT<BR>CHARACTER'S SKILL!<BR><BR>The success of that throw is measured by THAT CHARACTER'S ATTRIBUTE (not<BR>a generic 2+ over difficulty number as in MT).<BR><BR>And, there is a difference in Kirk, and his poor old shot up buddy, who<BR>has his Dex reduced to Dex-1 (because that guy, although still able to<BR>attack, will be rolling Marginal Successes exclusively unless he throws<BR>his target number exactly).<BR><BR><BR><BR>CT and MT are generic based system.&nbsp; You roll a generic throw, and this<BR>throw is modified by the expertise and natural ability of the character.<BR><BR>The difference is that the T4 and KB3 systems are character-defined.<BR>The very nature of the throws involved are BASED on the characters<BR>themselves--not on generic dice throws.<BR><BR><BR>I think that makes things a little clearer than my original answer to<BR>you.<BR><BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 20:20:38 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: Lend-Lease (with ObTrav's!!)<BR><BR>&gt;From: TML@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Lend-Lease (with ObTrav's!!)<BR>...<BR>&gt;That was their entire strategy, though:&nbsp; set up a defensive perimeter<BR>&gt;as far away as possible, then wear down the Americans in lots of<BR>&gt;attritional battles until they gave up and went home.&nbsp; They were<BR>&gt;gambling that their will to fight was greater than the Americans'<BR>&gt;(possibly true, except for the effect Pearl Harbor had on US public<BR>&gt;opinion.&nbsp; Oops.) and that they would not lose half their fleet in one<BR>&gt;battle due to a desperate stroke of bad luck (Midway.&nbsp; Oops again).<BR><BR>&nbsp; The big oopses count for a lot :&gt;&nbsp; Basically, they would have done<BR>very well if they could complete _a_ defensive perimeter and keep<BR>their strategic reserve within that ring to counter. But they got<BR>caught out still trying to establish a wider ring, and lost said<BR>reserve in the process.<BR><BR>&nbsp; And pissing off the Yanks was not the wisest of moves.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Interestingly, establishing an inner ring (including the prime<BR>oil-field objectives) _without_ striking at Pearl might have led<BR>to "victory"; a long, hard, fight with no one but the Chinese and<BR>the oil companies _really_ concerned about the short-term (long-<BR>term is another thing, but the ANZUS axis was bound to form...)<BR>would have been a damned hard sell to the American public (?).<BR><BR>&nbsp; &lt;sigh&gt; Desire to run 5FW/Imperium type game vs time constraints...<BR><BR>&gt;ObTrav:&nbsp; the Sword Worlds doubtless believed that their courage,<BR>&gt;martial skill and determination would allow them to triumph over the<BR>&gt;wealthy and numerous but cowardly and effete Imperials.<BR><BR>&nbsp; But just _what_ were the Sols smok^h^h thinking?!<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Steven Hudson<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 20:20:43 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re : Health Care in the US (was : Re : Naming Laws)<BR><BR>&gt;From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>&gt;Subject: Re : Health Care in the US (was : Re : Naming Laws)<BR>...<BR>&gt;&gt; The U.S. was about a third of the way down the list, at the bottom of<BR>&gt;&gt; all the OECD countries.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Ugh!&nbsp; Thanks for the info.&nbsp; In many ways, the US is far from being a <BR>&gt;civilized nation, yet another reason to consider moving...<BR><BR>&nbsp; Seattle isn't bad, if you don't mind rain. I bought most of my<BR>early LBB's (which I still have!) there at _Ralph's Hobbies_ :)<BR><BR>&nbsp; OTOH, if you mind the rain, then it's _right out_ :&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 22:20:53 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: System Traffic: Counting the Ships<BR><BR>On 12/28/00 at 10:36 PM,&nbsp; JFZeigler@aol.com said:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Hum, I can't seem to put my finger on procedures for figuring this<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; out.&nbsp; I thought this might have been addressed in Far Trader or<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; Starports, but I couldn't find anything.&nbsp; <BR><BR>&gt;Actually, you should be able to estimate this using Far Trader, I<BR>&gt;should think.&nbsp; Let me take a stab at some reasonable rules of <BR>&gt;thumb.<BR><BR>&gt;On p. 16 there's a table indicating what volume of traffic each BTN<BR>&gt;brings in, including a column for approximate dtons per week.&nbsp; Go<BR>&gt;through all the trade routes touching on Drellesaar, generate the<BR>&gt;exact values for the amount of cargo coming in from each route this<BR>&gt;week, and figure about one 10,000-ton megafreighter is in-<BR>&gt;system for every 5,000 dtons of cargo.&nbsp; For smaller amounts, figure<BR>&gt;maybe one 1,000-ton freighter for every 300 tons of cargo, or one<BR>&gt;free trader for every 50 tons of cargo (smaller ships carrying less<BR>&gt;cargo in proportion).<BR><BR>&gt;Of all the ships in-system, only about a third are likely to be in<BR>&gt;space at any given time -- the rest are grounded at the starport.<BR>&gt;On the other hand, there's probably some amount of other tonnage in<BR>&gt;space too: escorts and patrol craft, the occasional scientific or<BR>&gt;private vessel, and whatnot.&nbsp; Call that tonnage about equal in size<BR>&gt;and distribution to the merchies.<BR><BR>&gt;Sound reasonable?<BR><BR>Yep, but it also looks like more work than I want to do...&lt;g&gt;,,,and I'm trying to keep this classic Traveller, so GT is a little jarring to the game.<BR><BR>Anyway, I found an article in JTAS 22 by Leroy G. that bears on this. The article suggests rolling (Pop-Port)d6 for the number of ships, where Port is a code of A=0, B=1, C=2, D=3, etc.&nbsp; He also suggested creating a ship frequency table based on the Ref's evaluation of the region.<BR><BR>I was going to try using this with a -1DM on each roll because of the area and time, then expand it slightly by rolling twice, once for spaceship traffic and once for starship traffic. Half the ships would be "in port" (up or down) and the other half would be split between inbound and outbound traffic.&nbsp; I'll still have to make up encounter tables, but that won't be especially hard and I think I could actually pull them from MT if I wanted.<BR><BR>Thanks for the reply.<BR><BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 23:24:24 EST<BR>From: JDoch226@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Iris valves<BR><BR>In a message dated 12/28/00 6:40:59 PM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR><BR>&lt;&lt; Then there are the shutter-style valves, like those used in<BR>cameras, which fold to overlap the edges of the adjacent segment. &gt;&gt;<BR><BR>How do the overlapping segments of the iris valve fit together in the center? <BR>I tried building a model of an iris valve for my 25mm starship deck, and I <BR>could get the segments to overlap at the outside edges but there didn't seem <BR>to be any way they would fit together in the center.&nbsp; This was _not_ a <BR>working model (!), but even so, I couldn't get the segments to look right.<BR>Jed Docherty <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 17:41:47 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Iris valves<BR><BR>Gordon Horne wrote :<BR><BR>&gt; In space construction you generally know which side of a hatch is<BR>&gt; likely to be pressurized (the side with people) and which side is<BR>&gt; likely to be in vacuum (the side with stars).<BR><BR>Nope, you _don't_ know this.<BR><BR>You may get a hull breach (even more likley on a warship), so the bulkheads<BR>between sections must seal _both_ ways, and you don't know which side of the<BR>bulkhead the hole will be ahead of time.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 22:30:56 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Character-Defined Task Rolls<BR><BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;A MT character with Stat-5, Skill-2 has a 92% chance of making an<BR>&gt; &gt;Average roll.<BR><BR>Yadda...yadda...yaddaa...&nbsp; The all have 92%, so I snipped the heck out of 'em.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt;...a T4 character with Stat-5, Skill-2 has a 58% chance of making<BR>&gt; &gt;an Average roll.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; KB2&nbsp; 63%<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;...a T4 character with Stat-6, Skill-2 has a 72% chance of making<BR>&gt; &gt;an Average roll.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; KB2&nbsp; 74%<BR><BR>And, I'll snip the heck out of that too...because it basically show that KB3 and T4 result in similar percentages....AND that they are<BR>"growing" percentages, becoming larger as Stat increases...which is the point I was making.<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; Not as well as showing that the BCS progression is *about* the same T4 alone if the stat increases and the skill stays the same. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>I'm not sure I follow you, Eris.<BR><BR>As Stat increases 5-9 in MT, the chance of success remains a flat 92%.<BR><BR>In T4 and KB3, you see a similar percentage, but the percentage grows with the growth of the stat.<BR><BR>Stat&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; MT%&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; T4%&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; KB3%<BR>- ----&nbsp; &nbsp; ------&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -----&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -------<BR>5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 92%&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 58%&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 63%<BR>6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 92%&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 72%&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 74%<BR>7&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 92%&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 83%&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 84%<BR>8&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 92%&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 92%&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 91%<BR>9&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 92%&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 97%&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 95%<BR><BR><BR><BR>Those numbers all look good to me.&nbsp; Each of the systems look compatible percentage-wise.&nbsp; T4 and KB3 grow with the stat, which I think<BR>is desirable in a system.<BR><BR>Are you saying you prefer the flat 92% for some reason?<BR><BR>Or, are you saying that you don't agree with KB3 percentages?<BR><BR>I don't follow?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 22:33:19 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Character-Defined Task Rolls<BR><BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Yep, that about sums them up IMO, too.<BR><BR>Read the new post I just sent then.&nbsp; I've explained what I'm trying to say in a cleaner, clearer example.<BR><BR>Compare all three systems with a Dex-4, Pistol-0 character, and you'll see what I mean.&nbsp; (check it out in the post)<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 21:05:03 -0800<BR>From: Gordon Horne &lt;gordon.horne@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Iris valves<BR><BR>- --============_-1234056186==_ma============<BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"<BR><BR>&gt;Gordon Horne wrote :<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; In space construction you generally know which side of a hatch is<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; likely to be pressurized (the side with people) and which side is<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; likely to be in vacuum (the side with stars).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Nope, you _don't_ know this.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;You may get a hull breach (even more likley on a warship), so the bulkheads<BR>&gt;between sections must seal _both_ ways, and you don't know which side of the<BR>&gt;bulkhead the hole will be ahead of time.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>View in a monospace font.<BR><BR><BR>|==______==|<BR>|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |<BR>|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |<BR>|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |<BR>|==------==|<BR><BR>|==&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ==|<BR>|\&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; \&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR>| \&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; \&nbsp; |<BR>|&nbsp; \&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; \ |<BR>|==&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ==|<BR><BR>|==&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ==|<BR>||&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ||<BR>||&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ||<BR>||&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ||<BR>|==&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ==|<BR><BR>This design requires a length of corridor equal to the width of the opening.<BR>The hatch at the top of the diagram swings down and right and stores <BR>on the right wall when open.<BR>The hatch at the bottom of the diagram swing up and left and stores <BR>on the left wall when open.<BR>Both hatches can operate simultaneously and do not interfere with each other.<BR>Unless the breach occurs between the hatches, this door is always <BR>sealed by pressure.<BR><BR>This is one of dozens of possible designs. The problem is trivial and <BR>could be solved by any spacecraft or space station designer of <BR>average intelligence and training. Standard solutions will be <BR>available in standards manuals, hence the name 8^)<BR><BR>TTFN<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; g<BR>- --============_-1234056186==_ma============<BR>Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"<BR><BR>&lt;!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"&gt;<BR>&lt;head&gt;&lt;style type="text/css"&gt;&lt;!--<BR>blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { margin-top: 0 ; margin-bottom: 0 }<BR>--&gt;&lt;/style&gt;&lt;title&gt;RE: Iris valves&lt;/title&gt;&lt;/head&gt;<BR>&lt;blockquote type="cite" cite&gt;Gordon Horne wrote :<BR><BR><BR><BR>&amp;gt; In space construction you generally know which side of a hatch<BR>is<BR><BR>&amp;gt; likely to be pressurized (the side with people) and which side<BR>is<BR><BR>&amp;gt; likely to be in vacuum (the side with stars).<BR><BR><BR><BR>Nope, you _don't_ know this.<BR><BR><BR><BR>You may get a hull breach (even more likley on a warship), so the<BR>bulkheads<BR><BR>between sections must seal _both_ ways, and you don't know which side<BR>of the&lt;/blockquote&gt;<BR>&lt;blockquote type="cite" cite&gt;bulkhead the hole will be ahead of<BR>time.&lt;/blockquote&gt;<BR>&lt;blockquote type="cite" cite&gt;<BR>&lt;/blockquote&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<BR>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;&lt;tt&gt;View in a monospace font.&lt;/tt&gt;&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;&lt;tt&gt;<BR>&lt;/tt&gt;&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;&lt;tt&gt;<BR>&lt;/tt&gt;&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;&lt;tt&gt;|==______==|&lt;/tt&gt;&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;&lt;tt&gt;|&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>|&lt;/tt&gt;&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;&lt;tt&gt;|&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>|&lt;/tt&gt;&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;&lt;tt&gt;|&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>|&lt;/tt&gt;&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;&lt;tt&gt;|==------==|&lt;/tt&gt;&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;&lt;tt&gt;<BR>&lt;/tt&gt;&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;&lt;tt&gt;|==&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; ==|&lt;/tt&gt;&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;&lt;tt&gt;|\&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; \&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; |&lt;/tt&gt;&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;&lt;tt&gt;| \&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; \&amp;nbsp; |&lt;/tt&gt;&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;&lt;tt&gt;|&amp;nbsp; \&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; \ |&lt;/tt&gt;&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;&lt;tt&gt;|==&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; ==|&lt;/tt&gt;&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;&lt;tt&gt;<BR>&lt;/tt&gt;&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;&lt;tt&gt;|==&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; ==|&lt;/tt&gt;&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;&lt;tt&gt;||&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; ||&lt;/tt&gt;&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;&lt;tt&gt;||&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; ||&lt;/tt&gt;&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;&lt;tt&gt;||&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; ||&lt;/tt&gt;&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;&lt;tt&gt;|==&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; ==|&lt;/tt&gt;&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<BR>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;This design requires a length of corridor equal to the width of<BR>the opening.&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;The hatch at the top of the diagram swings down and right and<BR>stores on the right wall when open.&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;The hatch at the bottom of the diagram swing up and left and<BR>stores on the left wall when open.&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;Both hatches can operate simultaneously and do not interfere with<BR>each other.&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;Unless the breach occurs between the hatches, this door is always<BR>sealed by pressure.&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<BR>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;This is one of dozens of possible designs. The problem is trivial<BR>and could be solved by any spacecraft or space station designer of<BR>average intelligence and training. Standard solutions will be<BR>available in standards manuals, hence the name 8^)&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<BR>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;TTFN&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; g&lt;/div&gt;<BR><BR><BR>- --============_-1234056186==_ma============--<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 00:05:48 -0500<BR>From: Thom Jones-Low &lt;tjoneslo@together.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 17:46:09 +1100<BR>&gt; From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Jump emergence<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Thom Jones-Low wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; T = G * M / r^3<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; This formula is not quite correct. It is a good<BR>&gt; &gt; approximation. A more exact one is:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; T = (-2 * G * M * m / r^3) (h)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Um, they are different formulas, for different things.&nbsp; The first<BR>&gt; gives a good indication of the stress or curvature of spacetime.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Yours gives the stress experienced in an object, although it<BR>&gt; completely neglects orientation and density distribution.&nbsp; The jump<BR>&gt; limit probably should be independent of the ship making the jump to at<BR>&gt; least a first-order approximation, which is why I think tidal<BR>&gt; curvature is a good bet.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; For most calculations both m and h are small enough to be ignored.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Umm, for trivial m and h your formula gives a stress of zero.&nbsp; They<BR>&gt; can hardly be ignored.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; For Gas Giants, the safe limit is between 60 and 80 diameters. For<BR>&gt; &gt; planets between 80 and 105 diameters. For most stars, the distance is<BR>&gt; &gt; under 1 AU.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; At least the end result is similar.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thom once again proves he knows only enough physics to make himself<BR>look foolish. <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; The end results are similar only because both Leonard and I were both<BR>trying to achieve the same end, a 100 diameter jump limit on standard<BR>planets.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thank you for describing the difference between them. I like the the<BR>Tidal stress formula (either one) as it allows calculating some other<BR>interesting results. <BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Like how small a planetoid you can safely jump to. Given Marc Millers<BR>Jumpspace article variance of 3000 km in the emergence of a jump 1<BR>drive. So you need a planetoid with 100 Diameter limit larger than 3000<BR>km. For a "standard" world, this is about 32 km diameter. For an Ice<BR>chunk, like a comet head this is closer to 57 km diameter. <BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thomas Jones-Low<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; tjoneslo@together.net<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 00:17:32 -0600<BR>From: "Matthew W. Helton" &lt;mwhelton@cox-internet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Iris valves<BR><BR>In a message dated 12/28/00 6:40:59 PM Pacific Standard Time,<BR>owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR><BR>&lt;&lt; Then there are the shutter-style valves, like those used in<BR>cameras, which fold to overlap the edges of the adjacent segment. &gt;&gt;<BR><BR>How do the overlapping segments of the iris valve fit together in the<BR>center?<BR>I tried building a model of an iris valve for my 25mm starship deck, and I<BR>could get the segments to overlap at the outside edges but there didn't seem<BR>to be any way they would fit together in the center.&nbsp; This was _not_ a<BR>working model (!), but even so, I couldn't get the segments to look right.<BR>Jed Docherty<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; The Shutter style valve opens outward and radially simultaneously. This<BR>type of valve would be impractical because it would require a hard seal (no<BR>rubber or other pliable gasket material) to be airtight and it would most<BR>definitely be directional. Look at an old vertical camera to see what that<BR>type of shutter looks like.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 22:27:17 -0800<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: Skills in CT (long tasks?)<BR><BR>&gt;From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>...<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; FWIW, if I were going to insist on fitting stats directly into a<BR>&gt;&gt;CT skills system I'd go back and have initial chargen for<BR>&gt;&gt;substitute two dAverage (2,3,3,4,4,5) for 2d6 - realistically,<BR>&gt;&gt;that's 6-8 and the problem is solved :&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Most folks know how much I complained about the "damn d3", so here's a<BR>*really* heretical idea, use 3d3 to roll stats.&nbsp; You get 3-9, ev of 6 with a<BR>nice bell curve.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Or, use 3df (df= -1, 0, 1) for a range of -3 to +3, ev of 0 for Attributes.<BR>Personally, I'd prefer to shift the result toward 0 by 1, giving a range of<BR>- -2 to +2 and call the levels Poor, Mediocre, Fair, Good, and Great. &lt;G&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Of course, you'll need to do something about the damage system with either<BR>suggestion. <BR><BR>&nbsp; Not really, if you either use i) 3d3+1, or ii) apply the -3 to +3 to <BR>the average 2d6 value of 7 - presto! :&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;I *don't* want them worrying about the mechanics of do they want to roll all<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;their dice to succed or fewer to improve their chance of exceptional success.<BR>...<BR>&gt;Frankly, I want the players roleplaying, and let the Ref worry about the<BR>rolling. Sure, some folks *like* to roll dice, and when I'm Reffing I give<BR>the players the option to roll for important things, but mostly I do the<BR>rolling for everything.&nbsp; If they are being cautious they tell me when they<BR>tell me what they are trying to do and I take it &gt;into account.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Agree. Heck, if you don't like moving the difficulty level or giving a<BR>flat mod for taking _extra_ time, there's another approach. Simply have<BR>the minimum for each of the 2d6 be the level of the governing _skill_, <BR>with re-rolls for results that don't exceed the skill. This increases <BR>the average by 0.5 per skill level, to 6 at level 5, i.e., each skill <BR>level now counts x1.5 times.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Frankly, someone who's really familiar with how to do things _wrong_<BR>is much more likely to do it _right_ if they're not rushed. And it's a<BR>good enough model for long tasks like research.<BR><BR>Being fairly clueless myself, I know that more time doesn't always help :&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Steven Hudson<BR><BR>The CT Creed: There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its Product<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3478<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Friday, December 29 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3479<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>My last obscenity of the century<BR>Re: My last obscenity of the century<BR>Gvoudzon's Run...<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 01:28:00 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: My last obscenity of the century<BR><BR>- --============_-1234051214==_ma============<BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"<BR><BR>Who would have thought I'd make it this far?&nbsp; Peculiar, I thought; <BR>and what better way to celebrate than designing an interstellar <BR>stealth military sex toy?<BR><BR>(Of course, all blame must go to Andrew Akins, for providing the <BR>spreadsheet that is the ideal playground for my disorders.)<BR><BR>Play safe, kids!<BR><BR><BR><BR>REAR INTRUSION CRUISER (FF&amp;S v2)<BR>Designed by the Kenjomatic 3.3.2 Automated Personality Simulacrum(tm)<BR><BR>STATISTICS<BR>Tons: 50,000std (20,000stdShort + 30,000std Long Cones Hypersonic SL)<BR>Crew: 358/415&nbsp; &nbsp; Cargo: 300std (0/6 /Hdl:6x50ton)&nbsp; &nbsp; No Passengers<BR>Volume: 700,000m3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Cost: 277,728.446 MCr<BR>Mass (L/C): 825545t/796226t&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Maintenance Points: 17797<BR>Dimensions:<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Forward Cone 295.4m long, 73.4m diameter<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Rear Cone 102.3m long, 102.3m diameter<BR>Troops/Science: 0/0&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Tech Level: 15 (15/16)&nbsp; &nbsp; Size:10<BR><BR><BR>ELECTRONICS<BR>Controls: Holographic, High automation. 50xFibComp (CM:0.2 CP:5.0).<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Terrain following sensors (TF:570, NOE:190). Bridge.<BR>Communications: 1xRadio (500,000km, 0.17MW). 3xLaser (1,000AU, 0MW).<BR>Sensors: 1xPEMS (14.5 [160mkm], 0.5MW). 1xAEMS (12 [1.6mkm], 10MW).<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 3xLIDAR (15 [2mkm], 2.5MW).<BR>Survey/Science: 2xDensiometer (9.5 [1600km]).<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 1xNeutrino (8.5 [160km], 2MW). 3xNAS (0.4km, 16.67MW).<BR>ECM:&nbsp; &nbsp; 1xRadio Jammer (1,000AU, 0.4MW).<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 1xArea. Jammer (12, 975MW).<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 1xPas. Jammer (16, 9.75MW).<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 1xDecoy Disp. (2 units ea.).1xAct. Decoy Disp. (2 units ea.). <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Signatures: Vis:0, <BR>IR:-0.5 (-0.5 at 74882MW, -1 at 8850MW), Act:-1, Neu:0, Grav:2<BR><BR>[As stealthy as possible -- while keeping a chameleon-coated hull, to <BR>provide necessarily garish, tacky color schemes.]<BR><BR><BR>WEAPONRY<BR>12xBay Lasers (+6) 1/4-4-4-4 [1,200/40-40-40-40] (LR)<BR>1xSpinal Meson (+6) 2/10-8-5-3 [1,200/710-374-192-96] (LR)<BR><BR>[Lasers for point defense and dealing with smaller escorts and <BR>pickets that can't be sneaked past.&nbsp; Short-range but powerful meson <BR>gun to slip in past the armor and induce internal explosions in the <BR>target.]<BR><BR><BR>PERFORMANCE<BR>5&nbsp; &nbsp; Jump (5000std/pc fuel)<BR>3.4/3.5&nbsp; &nbsp; Maneuver (Thruster:70000MW)<BR>4117kph/4184kph&nbsp; Atmosphere (Crus:3088kph/3138kph)<BR>4&nbsp; &nbsp; Power (Fus:88500MW,1yr )<BR>6000&nbsp; &nbsp; Battery (0.83/1.4/1.3)<BR>25632.1&nbsp; &nbsp; Fuel (Scoop:6 /Purif:30,359MW)<BR>0/312/103/0/104&nbsp; &nbsp; Accomodations<BR>6720&nbsp; &nbsp; Life Sup. (Ty:Ex,Gd /'St)<BR>3&nbsp; &nbsp; G-Comp<BR>500&nbsp; &nbsp; ESA (ROD:3600)<BR>600&nbsp; &nbsp; Damper Screen (119MW)<BR>1200&nbsp; &nbsp; Meson Screen (900MW)<BR>10&nbsp; &nbsp; Gravtics (400MW&nbsp; Manipulator:200,000kN)<BR>70 [400]&nbsp; Armor, 59 Structure<BR><BR>[Long jump radius but not much acceleration.&nbsp; Speed isn't the answer <BR>to using this; people will only get hurt that way.&nbsp; Slow and easy <BR>does it.&nbsp; The hull is built with soft, rubbery radiation-absorbent <BR>(but easily cleaned!) synthetic material, giving it a thick, plush <BR>armor.&nbsp; Big electrostatic armor generator for added kinky shocks.&nbsp; No <BR>sandcasters (too scratchy), but has some pretty powerful TL-G <BR>gravitic manipulators that should allow the Rear Intrusion Cruiser to <BR>force any strategic openings.]<BR><BR><BR>FEATURES<BR>400xAirlock&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 100xDecontamination Airlock<BR>1xDocking Umbilical&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 5xElectronic Shop (6std ea.)<BR>5xMachine Shop (10std ea.)&nbsp; &nbsp; 5xSickbay (8std ea.)<BR>1xShip's locker (25std ea.)&nbsp; &nbsp; 10xGym (2.5std ea.)<BR>20xOrdinary Galley (Cap:10)&nbsp; &nbsp; 8xFull Galley (Cap:50)<BR><BR>SMALL CRAFT<BR>None.<BR><BR>BACKUPS<BR>Drives: 1xContraGrav 0.8G / 0.9G.<BR>Screens: 1xESA generator (AV:500).<BR>Communications: 1xRadio (50,000km). 3xLaser (1,000AU).<BR>Sensors: 1xPEMS (14.5 [160mkm]). 1xAEMS (12 [1.6mkm]). 3xLIDAR (15 <BR>[2mkm]).&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Survey/Science: <BR>2xDensiometer (9 [500km], 0MW). 1xNeutrino (8.5 [160km], ). 1xNAS <BR>(0.4km).<BR>ECM: 1xRadio Jammer (1,000AU). 1xArea. Jammer (12). 1xPas. Jammer <BR>(16).&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Power &amp; Fuel: Purification <BR>Plant (168hr).<BR><BR><BR>CREW DETAILS<BR>7xMnvr. 267xEngr. 27xMain. 23xGunn. 18xScrn. 57xCmnd. 13xStew. 3xMed.<BR><BR><BR>- --============_-1234051214==_ma============<BR>Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"<BR><BR>&lt;!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"&gt;<BR>&lt;head&gt;&lt;style type="text/css"&gt;&lt;!--<BR>blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { margin-top: 0 ; margin-bottom: 0 }<BR>--&gt;&lt;/style&gt;&lt;title&gt;My last obscenity of the<BR>century&lt;/title&gt;&lt;/head&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000>Who would have thought I'd make it this<BR>far?&amp;nbsp; Peculiar, I thought; and what better way to celebrate than<BR>designing an interstellar stealth military sex toy?</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000><BR></FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000>(Of course, all blame must go to Andrew<BR>Akins, for providing the spreadsheet that is the ideal playground for<BR>my disorders.)</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000><BR></FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000>Play safe, kids!</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000><BR></FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000><BR></FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000><BR></FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000><B>REAR INTRUSION CRUISER (FF&amp;amp;S<BR>v2)&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</B>&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000>Designed by the Kenjomatic 3.3.2 Automated<BR>Personality Simulacrum(tm)</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000><B><BR><BR>STATISTICS</B>&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000>Tons: 50,000std (20,000stdShort +<BR>30,000std Long Cones Hypersonic SL)&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000>Crew: 358/415&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &lt;/x-tab&gt;<BR>Cargo: 300std (0/6<BR>/Hdl:6x50ton)&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &lt;/x-tab&gt; No<BR>Passengers</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000>Volume:<BR>700,000m3&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;Cost: 277,728.446 MCr</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000>Mass (L/C):<BR>825545t/796226t&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;Maintenance Points: 17797</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000>Dimensions:</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;&lt;font<BR>color="#000000"&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;Forward Cone 295.4m long, 73.4m diameter</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;&lt;font<BR>color="#000000"&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;Rear Cone 102.3m long, 102.3m diameter</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000>Troops/Science:<BR>0/0&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;Tech Level: 15 (15/16)&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp; &lt;/x-tab&gt;<BR>Size:10&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &lt;/x-tab&gt;<BR><BR>&amp;nbsp;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;&lt;font<BR>color="#000000"&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;&lt;font<BR>color="#000000"&gt;<B>ELECTRONICS&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</B>&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000>Controls: Holographic, High automation.<BR>50xFibComp (CM:0.2 CP:5.0).</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;&lt;font<BR>color="#000000"&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;Terrain following sensors (TF:570, NOE:190).<BR>Bridge.</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000>Communications: 1xRadio (500,000km,<BR>0.17MW). 3xLaser (1,000AU, 0MW).&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &lt;/x-tab&gt;<BR><BR>Sensors: 1xPEMS (14.5 [160mkm], 0.5MW). 1xAEMS (12 [1.6mkm],<BR>10MW).</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;&lt;font<BR>color="#000000"&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;3xLIDAR (15 [2mkm], 2.5MW).&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;<BR><BR>Survey/Science: 2xDensiometer (9.5 [1600km]).</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;&lt;font<BR>color="#000000"&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;1xNeutrino (8.5 [160km], 2MW). 3xNAS (0.4km, 16.67MW).<BR><BR>ECM:&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &lt;/x-tab&gt;1xRadio Jammer<BR>(1,000AU, 0.4MW).</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;&lt;font<BR>color="#000000"&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;1xArea. Jammer (12, 975MW).</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;&lt;font<BR>color="#000000"&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;1xPas. Jammer (16, 9.75MW).</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;&lt;font<BR>color="#000000"&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;1xDecoy Disp. (2 units ea.).1xAct. Decoy Disp. (2 units<BR>ea.).&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &lt;/x-tab&gt;<BR>Signatures: Vis:0, IR:-0.5 (-0.5 at 74882MW, -1 at 8850MW), Act:-1,<BR>Neu:0, Grav:2&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000><BR></FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000>[As stealthy as possible -- while keeping<BR>a chameleon-coated hull, to provide necessarily garish, tacky color<BR>schemes.]</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000><BR></FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000><BR></FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000><B>WEAPONRY</B></FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000>12xBay Lasers (+6) 1/4-4-4-4<BR>[1,200/40-40-40-40] (LR)&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000>1xSpinal Meson (+6) 2/10-8-5-3<BR>[1,200/710-374-192-96] (LR)&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000><B><BR></B></FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000>[Lasers for point defense and dealing with<BR>smaller escorts and pickets that can't be sneaked past.&amp;nbsp;<BR>Short-range but powerful meson gun to slip in past the armor and<BR>induce internal explosions in the target.]</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000><B><BR></B></FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000><B><BR></B></FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;&lt;font<BR>color="#000000"&gt;<B>PERFORMANCE&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</B>&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;&lt;font<BR>color="#000000"&gt;5&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;Jump (5000std/pc fuel)&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000>3.4/3.5&lt;x-tab&gt; &lt;/x-tab&gt;Maneuver<BR>(Thruster:70000MW)&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000>4117kph/4184kph&amp;nbsp; Atmosphere<BR>(Crus:3088kph/3138kph)&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;&lt;font<BR>color="#000000"&gt;4&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;Power (Fus:88500MW,1yr<BR>)&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000>6000&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;Battery (0.83/1.4/1.3)&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000>25632.1&lt;x-tab&gt; &lt;/x-tab&gt;Fuel (Scoop:6<BR>/Purif:30,359MW)&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000>0/312/103/0/104&lt;x-tab&gt;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;Accomodations&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000>6720&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &lt;/x-tab&gt;Life<BR>Sup. (Ty:Ex,Gd /'St)&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;&lt;font<BR>color="#000000"&gt;3&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;G-Comp&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000>500&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;ESA (ROD:3600)&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000>600&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;Damper Screen (119MW)&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000>1200&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;Meson Screen (900MW)&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000>10&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;Gravtics (400MW&amp;nbsp; Manipulator:200,000kN)</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000>70 [400]&amp;nbsp; Armor, 59<BR>Structure&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;&lt;font<BR>color="#000000"&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000>[Long jump radius but not much<BR>acceleration.&amp;nbsp; Speed isn't the answer to using this; people will<BR>only get hurt that way.&amp;nbsp; Slow and easy does it.&amp;nbsp; The hull<BR>is built with soft, rubbery radiation-absorbent (but easily cleaned!)<BR>synthetic material, giving it a thick, plush armor.&amp;nbsp; Big<BR>electrostatic armor generator for added kinky shocks.&amp;nbsp; No<BR>sandcasters (too scratchy), but has some pretty powerful TL-G<BR>gravitic manipulators that should allow the Rear Intrusion Cruiser to<BR>force any strategic openings.]</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;&lt;font<BR>color="#000000"&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;&lt;font<BR>color="#000000"&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;&lt;font<BR>color="#000000"&gt;<B>FEATURES</B>&lt;x-tab<BR>&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000>400xAirlock&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;100xDecontamination Airlock&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000>1xDocking<BR>Umbilical&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;5xElectronic Shop (6std ea.)&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000>5xMachine Shop (10std<BR>ea.)&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &lt;/x-tab&gt;5xSickbay (8std<BR>ea.)&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000>1xShip's locker (25std<BR>ea.)&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &lt;/x-tab&gt;10xGym (2.5std<BR>ea.)&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000>20xOrdinary Galley<BR>(Cap:10)&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &lt;/x-tab&gt;8xFull Galley<BR>(Cap:50)&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;&lt;font<BR>color="#000000"&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000><B>SMALL<BR>CRAFT&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</B>&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000>None.&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;&lt;font<BR>color="#000000"&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000><B>BACKUPS&lt;x-tab&gt;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</B>&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000>Drives: 1xContraGrav 0.8G /<BR>0.9G.&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &lt;/x-tab&gt;<BR><BR>Screens: 1xESA generator<BR>(AV:500).&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &lt;/x-tab&gt;<BR><BR>Communications: 1xRadio (50,000km). 3xLaser (1,000AU).&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000>Sensors: 1xPEMS (14.5 [160mkm]). 1xAEMS<BR>(12 [1.6mkm]). 3xLIDAR (15 [2mkm]).&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &lt;/x-tab&gt;<BR>Survey/Science: 2xDensiometer (9 [500km], 0MW). 1xNeutrino (8.5<BR>[160km], ). 1xNAS (0.4km).&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000>ECM: 1xRadio Jammer (1,000AU). 1xArea.<BR>Jammer (12). 1xPas. Jammer (16).&lt;x-tab&gt;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &lt;/x-tab&gt;<BR>Power &amp;amp; Fuel: Purification Plant<BR>(168hr).&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000><BR></FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000><BR></FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000><B>CREW DETAILS&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</B>&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR>&lt;div&gt;<FONT color=#000000>7xMnvr. 267xEngr. 27xMain. 23xGunn.<BR>18xScrn. 57xCmnd. 13xStew. 3xMed.&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &lt;/x-tab&gt;<BR><BR>&amp;nbsp;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;&lt;x-tab&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;<BR>&lt;/x-tab&gt;</FONT><BR><BR><FONT color=#000000></FONT>&lt;/div&gt;<BR><BR><BR>- --============_-1234051214==_ma============--<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 22:44:49 -0800<BR>From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: My last obscenity of the century<BR><BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&gt;Who would have thought I'd make it this far?&nbsp; Peculiar, I thought; and what<BR>better way to celebrate than designing an interstellar stealth military sex<BR>toy?<BR>&gt;<BR>Ouch.&nbsp; Until now, only Hiroshi was allowed to hurt me like that... and make<BR>me like it.<BR><BR>lol, it's a good thing Yukiko and I were done with our drinking (not that<BR>she understands this.)<BR><BR>Kirichan yori<BR><BR>btw, Kenji, are you going to be as late replying to my mail as I was to<BR>yours?&nbsp; do I have to wait until next millennium?&nbsp; ;p<BR><BR>lol.<BR>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 93!&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Thou Art God...<BR>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR><BR>"That wickedness weltering around inside of you, inside of everyone, is<BR>sacred somewhere.&nbsp; There's a deity out there who digs it.&nbsp; You can respect<BR>and love your darkest side, disposing of only what is obsolete or<BR>impractical.&nbsp; It's all about giving yourself permission."<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- Jack Darkhand<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 02:15:47 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Gvoudzon's Run...<BR><BR>GVOUDZON'S RUN...&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; EXAMPLE OF PLAY USING KB3<BR><BR><BR><BR>I think examples are best at communicating systems.&nbsp; I'm going to<BR>actually roll dice as I write.&nbsp; You'll see the game session encounter as<BR>it unfolds.&nbsp; (I'm also making the situation up as it unfolds, trying to<BR>show you different types of throws made in KB3--showing them to you in<BR>context.)<BR><BR>The character is one you all know, Gvoudzon the Vargr, and he's run by<BR>Paul the Player.&nbsp; Gurd the Game Master is ref-ing (I think he's from a<BR>Baltic state 8-&gt;&nbsp; ).<BR><BR>I'm using straight KB3 rules, as written in the revised summary (nothing<BR>has changed since then).&nbsp; I'm using random difficulty throws.&nbsp; And I'm<BR>using the E-Die.<BR><BR>When I list individual die results below, I will always list the E-Die<BR>first so that you know which result appeared on it.<BR><BR>My aim here is to show you the flow of a game using KB3.<BR><BR>Notice how quick the system flows--<BR>There aren't a lot of modifiers to deal with--no charts to look up--<BR>You're using your stat numbers and your skill level almost exclusively--<BR><BR>All you really have to worry about are your stats, your skills, and<BR>difficulty categories (although, you can add more complexity to the<BR>system, if you like.&nbsp; I use CT modifiers in my game--it makes it more<BR>complex, but I like how weapons can be differentiated using CT.&nbsp; You can<BR>tailor a weapon to fit a certain character.&nbsp; KB3 is flexible--add--or<BR>don't add--complexity as you see fit in your game.)<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>and now.........GVOUDZON'S RUN.........................<BR><BR>Gurd:&nbsp; We pick up tonight's session right were we left off.&nbsp; The March<BR>Harrier has been hailed by another ship.&nbsp; Scans revealed that the ship<BR>outguns the Harrier, and the Captain of the other ship has called for<BR>you to heave-to and prepare for borders.&nbsp; The umbilical is attached, and<BR>the seal on the airlock has just been broken.<BR><BR>Paul:&nbsp; Gvoudzon's going to make haste from the bridge and open the floor<BR>hatch to see if he can get a look at the boarders from above.<BR><BR>G:&nbsp; OK.&nbsp; Gvoudzon moves.&nbsp; He swings the hatch open.&nbsp; Too late--it took<BR>him some time to get up out of the Nav seat, transverse the bridge, and<BR>get the hatch open.&nbsp; As he peers down into the entry area on the lower<BR>deck, he can see that the hatch to the cargo deck has just sealed.<BR>While you were moving to the floor hatch on the bridge, the boarder<BR>moved through the outer airlock hatch, across the short distance to the<BR>inner cargo hatch, and into the cargo deck.&nbsp; As you peered down, he was<BR>closing the door.<BR><BR>P:&nbsp; I need my gun!&nbsp; Daeus!&nbsp; Throw me that autorifle behind your chair!<BR><BR>G:&nbsp; Normally you wouldn't need to roll for that, but Gvoudzon is under<BR>time pressure.&nbsp; He trying to grab the weapon and scoot on down the<BR>ladder after the intruders.&nbsp; Daeus tosses the weapon in your direction,<BR>but you're going to have to make a throw to catch it and keep on<BR>truckin'.<BR><BR>P:&nbsp; I don't have any skills to help me catch something.<BR><BR>G:&nbsp; You'll have to go default then, measured with your Dex.&nbsp; That gives<BR>you 1D.&nbsp; Daeus is not that far away, and the rifle is fairly easy to<BR>grab.&nbsp; I'll say it's an Average throw.<BR><BR>P:&nbsp; (Paul throws 1D....."3")<BR><BR>G:&nbsp; (Gurd throws the difficulty of 2D....."6-6")&nbsp; A 24!&nbsp; But, attribute<BR>rolls are reduced by Stat.&nbsp; What's your Dex?<BR><BR>P:&nbsp; Shit.&nbsp; Gvoudzon's Dex is an 8.<BR><BR>G:&nbsp; That reduces the difficulty to 16, but you still missed your roll by<BR>over 8 points.&nbsp; That's Greater Failure.&nbsp; The weapon tumbled toward you<BR>long-ways.&nbsp; You couldn't catch it.&nbsp; It smacked you then clanged down the<BR>open hatch at your feet, landing on the lower deck.&nbsp; If you ever had any<BR>hope of stealth, it's gone now.<BR><BR>P:&nbsp; I've got to get down there!<BR><BR>G:&nbsp; A couple of breaths, and you're down.<BR><BR>P:&nbsp; I pick up the autorifle.&nbsp; Is it OK.&nbsp; The barrel's not bent or<BR>anything, right?<BR><BR>G:&nbsp; Well, it looks fine upon quick inspection--just a few scrapes.&nbsp; If<BR>you take a round to look it over better, I'll give you an Easy roll to<BR>inspect it using your Rifle skill, governed by Edu.<BR><BR>P:&nbsp; I'll do it.&nbsp; If don't need any surprises in a firefight.&nbsp; Gvoudzon's<BR>skill is Rifle-3.&nbsp; That means I could have 4D on the throw, but that's<BR>over kill for a 1D difficulty.&nbsp; I'll use the skill option of reducing my<BR>target number.&nbsp; I'll throw 2D and have a -2 applied to difficulty.<BR>(Paul rolls 2D....."6-1").&nbsp; Hey!&nbsp; A six on the E-Die!&nbsp; My total is 13,<BR>and you've got a -2 on the difficulty throw!<BR><BR>G: (Gurd rolls 1D....."5").&nbsp; The difficulty is 5 reduced to 3 with your<BR>skill option.&nbsp; What's your Edu?&nbsp; There's a possibility that E-Die hurt<BR>you, pushing you up into the Marginal Success bracket.<BR><BR>P:&nbsp; Gvoudzon's stat is Edu 6.&nbsp; Damn.&nbsp; I rolled over by 10 points.&nbsp; That<BR>does put me in the Marginal Success bracket.<BR><BR>G:&nbsp; As Gvoudzon inspected the weapon, he saw the action level was bent.<BR>You took another round to work the action and make sure it is OK.&nbsp; The<BR>weapon is fine, but you spent two rounds checking it out instead of<BR>one.&nbsp; What do you want to do now?<BR><BR>P:&nbsp; I'm going to cycle the airlock, protect myself on the edge of the<BR>door with cover, and peer out into the hold.<BR><BR>G:&nbsp; OK, you do that.&nbsp; The lock is open.&nbsp; You see nothing but the<BR>opposite air lock hatch on the other side of the ship.&nbsp; Cargo crates<BR>pile to your right, in the normal fashion that you and the crew stacks<BR>them, and to the left is the air/raft, secured to the deck.&nbsp; You know<BR>the layout of the cargo deck.&nbsp; Two rows of double stacked cargo<BR>containers line the hull with a 1.5 meter "hallway" row down the center.<BR><BR>P:&nbsp; I'm going to use my Vargr sense of smell to see if that can tell me<BR>anything more.&nbsp; Do I smell anything?<BR><BR>G:&nbsp; That's another attribute roll.&nbsp; You can default it at 1D using your<BR>Int to interpret what you smell, but I'm not going to give you any idea<BR>of difficulty.&nbsp; Gvoudzon's has no idea where the intruders went, so he<BR>has no idea how hard it would be to "smell them out".&nbsp; Roll your bone.<BR><BR>P:&nbsp; (Paul rolls 1D....."3")&nbsp; I've got a 3.&nbsp; My Int is 7, so you'll have<BR>to subtract that off the difficulty because this is an attribute throw.<BR><BR>G:&nbsp; (Gurd rolls behind his GM's screen.&nbsp; He doesn't want Paul to get an<BR>idea of where the intruder is based on the difficulty of the throw, so<BR>he rolls the entire roll in secret.&nbsp; Gurd decides that smelling someone<BR>out like this would be tremendously hard for a human, but since Vargr<BR>have a heightened sense of smell, Gurd is going to make it a Difficult<BR>throw.&nbsp; He throws 3D....."5-6-4".&nbsp; The total is 15 minus Gvoudzon's Int<BR>score.&nbsp; The adjusted total of the difficulty is 8.&nbsp; Gurd sees that<BR>Gvoudzon missed his roll, but his roll fell within the range of 8 minus<BR>7--so only Failure was rolled, not Greater Failure.)<BR><BR>P:&nbsp; Did I smell anything?<BR><BR>G:&nbsp; No.&nbsp; You took a big, deep breath, but your nostrils told you<BR>nothing.<BR><BR>P:&nbsp; Alright-ey, then.&nbsp; Gvoudzon will move, autorifle at the ready, with<BR>his back against the cargo crates that are to his right.&nbsp; He'll keep his<BR>eyes shifting from the 1.5 meter corridor betwixt the two rows of cargo<BR>containers, in an arc across the hatch to the far airlock, to the<BR>air/raft and back.&nbsp; I don't think anybody's had time yet to get up on<BR>top of the containers, but I'm worried about that damn air/raft.<BR>Somebody could be hunched down in it.&nbsp; Gvoudzon will keep the rifle<BR>pointed more towards the cargo corridor, but at least half of his<BR>attention of ever second is on that air/raft.&nbsp; Right before he moves out<BR>from behind the cover afforded by the airlock he's in, he'll check to<BR>see the weapon is on semi-automatic.&nbsp; I've only got the one clip on me,<BR>and I don't need to be wasting ammo.<BR><BR>G:&nbsp; Sounds good.&nbsp; Gvoudzon is moving cautiously.&nbsp; He's close with his<BR>back to the containers, directing his attention as you said, but he<BR>doesn't "slide" is back on the crates--there's about an inch or two<BR>between him and them.&nbsp; He's trying to be quiet as well.&nbsp; You're at the<BR>corner now.&nbsp; Do you want to peek around? You've seen nothing suspicious<BR>yet at the air/raft.<BR><BR>P:&nbsp; I'm not going to peek.&nbsp; If there is someone in the air/raft, he's<BR>keeping his head down, and he doesn't know exactly where I am.&nbsp; I'm<BR>going to jump around the corner, completely into the corridor, weapon<BR>ready, in complete battle stance.<BR><BR>G:&nbsp; Ballsy!&nbsp; Gvoudzon swings around the container, autorifle held high,<BR>but not against his shoulder.&nbsp; He's pretty good with weapons and knows<BR>about the recoil.&nbsp; As soon as you jump around, you see a human at the<BR>far end, close to the hatches to the M-Drive.&nbsp; The stamp of your feet as<BR>you swung around catches his attention.&nbsp; His back is to you, but he's<BR>swinging around to face you, bringing his weapon to bear.&nbsp; He so far<BR>down, he had no idea you were there.&nbsp; I'm going to give you automatic<BR>surprise.&nbsp; You can have one action, then we'll roll initiative, going<BR>into regular rounds.<BR><BR>P:&nbsp; I'll shoot that sucker!<BR><BR>G:&nbsp; Let's see...it's 20 meters down there.&nbsp; That puts him in Short<BR>range.&nbsp; It's a Difficult shot.&nbsp; Roll your dice!<BR><BR>P:&nbsp; Difficult is 3D, and I've got Rifle-3.&nbsp; That means I've got 4D to<BR>roll.&nbsp; I don't think I'll use any skill options this time, I need to<BR>roll everything I've got to make sure I get that sucker.&nbsp; (Paul rolls<BR>4D....."6-4-3-6")&nbsp; A six on the E-Die and three of my dice are evens!<BR>I've got a total of 35!&nbsp; Yes!!!<BR><BR>G:&nbsp; (Gurd rolls 3D for the difficulty of the shot...."4-6-2")&nbsp; Your<BR>difficulty was 12, but that damn E-Die hurt you again.&nbsp; The E-Die can<BR>swing it in both ways, no matter if a "1" or a "6" is rolled. Sometimes<BR>a 6 will help you;&nbsp; sometimes it won't.&nbsp; And the same is true for the<BR>"1".&nbsp; You hit, but your Dex is 8 and you rolled over your target number<BR>by 20.&nbsp; You hit with Marginal Success.&nbsp; Subtract a die from your<BR>damage.&nbsp; The guy's not wearing anything but a spacer's jumpsuit, so<BR>there's no armor to figure.<BR><BR>P:&nbsp; My autorifle does 3D, so I'll roll two dice.&nbsp; (Paul rolls 2D for<BR>damage....."1-5")<BR><BR>G:&nbsp; (Gurd sees the NPC's physical stats of 764.&nbsp; He reduces these to<BR>164, keeping his Dex high for a return shot.)&nbsp; All right.&nbsp; The surprise<BR>round is over.&nbsp; We're going into regular rounds.&nbsp; Let's roll initiative.<BR><BR>(NOTE:&nbsp; In my game, I roll 1D6 + Dex + End plus a few modifiers for<BR>initiative.&nbsp; You should roll whatever you're used to--or however you're<BR>used to resolving initiative.&nbsp; However you do this, it has no impact on<BR>the KB3 task system.&nbsp; You're just deciding who goes first.)<BR><BR>P:&nbsp; (Paul rolls initiative for Gvoudzon.&nbsp; He rolls 1D+22.....initiative<BR>is 28)<BR><BR>G:&nbsp; (Gurd rolls for the NPC bad guy.&nbsp; He rolls 1D+10.....initiative is<BR>13)&nbsp; OK, since the intruder's base is so low compared to Gvoudzon's,<BR>there's no use in rolling initiative.&nbsp; Gvoudzon will always go first, or<BR>last, at his choosing.<BR><BR>P:&nbsp; I'm going to take my shot!&nbsp; I've got to take that dude out before he<BR>shoots me!&nbsp; I'll roll my 4D again for my autorifle attack.&nbsp; (Paul rolls<BR>4D....."2-6-2-5")&nbsp; I've got a 15!&nbsp; Let's see if I hit!<BR><BR>G:&nbsp; (Gurd rolls difficulty again, rolling 3D for a Difficult<BR>shot....."5-5-6")&nbsp; A 16!<BR><BR>P:&nbsp; Damn!&nbsp; I missed by 1!<BR><BR>G:&nbsp; Well, at least it was just a regular Failure!&nbsp; (Secretly, behind his<BR>GM's screen, Gurd plots to have the second intruder--the one Gvoudzon<BR>hasn't seen yet--ease out of the air/raft and sneak up behind Gvoudzon<BR>for a hand to hand attack.&nbsp; This second NPC has a weapon too, but the GM<BR>knows what the player's do not--that the real reason the ship was<BR>stopped was not piracy or some other reason.&nbsp; These men were paid to<BR>capture Gvoudzon and drag him back to the Vemene base.&nbsp; These NPC's are<BR>Tukera!&nbsp; So, Gurd will throw a roll behind his screen.&nbsp; Paul has no idea<BR>what he is doing.&nbsp; For this roll, Gurd decides to throw the second NPC's<BR>stealth versus a static target number--Gurd wants to keep the game<BR>moving at its fast pace and doesn't want to bog the game down doing two<BR>rolls himself.&nbsp; The NPC does not have Stealth, but it is a default<BR>skill.&nbsp; Under the circumstances of the firefight, Gurd decides it is an<BR>Average task for the NPC to sneak up on Gvoudzon--the Vargr's attention<BR>is on the other man trying to kill him.&nbsp; The sneaking NPC's Dex is 7,<BR>and since this is an attribute roll, this is subtracted from from the<BR>difficulty.&nbsp; The static difficulty of an Average task is 7+, so this<BR>modifier reduces that number to 0.&nbsp; It's an automatic success!&nbsp; But,<BR>Gurd rolls 1D anyway, just to make sure he doesn't roll a "1" on the<BR>E-Die.&nbsp; He rolls...."2".&nbsp; The guy is right behind Gvoudzon, and Gurd<BR>will let him act during the next round.)<BR><BR>P:&nbsp; Next round?&nbsp; OK, I'm going to shoot him again!&nbsp; Same deal!&nbsp; (Paul<BR>rolls 4D to hit...."6-6-3-6")&nbsp; What a roll!&nbsp; Probably another Marginal<BR>Success.&nbsp; My total is 39.<BR><BR>G:&nbsp; (Gurd knows that Gvoudzon's very high initiative is too high for the<BR>second NPC too, so he doesn't tip his hand that another NPC is about to<BR>strike.&nbsp; Gvoudzon will automatically go first anyway.&nbsp; Gurd rolls 3D<BR>difficulty for range for the Vargr's shot....."3-4-4")&nbsp; A total of 11.<BR>Yep.&nbsp; Marginal Success.&nbsp; Subtract a die from your damage.<BR><BR>P:&nbsp; (Paul rolls damage of 2D...."3-1")<BR><BR>G:&nbsp; (Gurd reduces the stats of the first bad guy down further to 151.<BR>Since this guy just got shot at, Gurd makes the NPC behind Gvoudzon go<BR>next with a hand-to-hand attack.&nbsp; Normally, this would be a straight<BR>opposed roll versus Gvoudzon's Infighting skill, but Gvoudzon is caught<BR>completely unawares.&nbsp; Gurd rules that a fair bonus for the NPC to cover<BR>this situation is to use the NPC's Str as a negative modifier to<BR>Gvoudzon's defense roll.)&nbsp; Paul, there's movement behind Gvoudzon!<BR><BR>P:&nbsp; What!&nbsp; Oh shit!<BR><BR>G:&nbsp; (Gurd rolls the hand to hand attack.&nbsp; The NPC has Brawling-1.&nbsp; His<BR>physical stats are 774.&nbsp; Gurd rolls 2D for the attack....."6-2")<BR>There's a second man behind you--also in a jump suit.&nbsp; He's got a weapon<BR>draped across him--one like the other NPC has--but this guy is attacking<BR>with his fists.&nbsp; My roll of 16 is his Brawling attack.&nbsp; You can defend<BR>yourself with your Infighting, but because he caught you unawares,<BR>you'll have to take 7 points off your roll.<BR><BR>P:&nbsp; Damn!&nbsp; I need some help down here!&nbsp; Where are the othe crew mates!<BR>(Paul rolls Gvoudzon's Infighting-1, giving him 2D...."5-8")&nbsp; That's 13<BR>minus the 7.&nbsp; I've got a total of 6 versus your 16.&nbsp; Maybe that damn<BR>Marginal Success measurment will work in my favor this time.<BR><BR>G:&nbsp; (Gurd looks at the NPC's Str of 7)&nbsp; It does.&nbsp; He hit, but it's<BR>Marginal Success.&nbsp; Hands do 1D damage, so removing that one die means<BR>that he hit you but did not damage you.&nbsp; It's the end of the round now,<BR>and the guy at the end of the hallway will start to run up to where you<BR>two are fighting.&nbsp; He can cover that 20 meters in 1 round, so he'll be<BR>part of the fight next round.&nbsp; And that's right now.&nbsp; Gvoudzon has high<BR>initiative.&nbsp; What do you want to do?<BR><BR>P:&nbsp; Gvoudzon's going to shove the tip of his weapon barrel right up<BR>against the man's chest and blow him away!<BR><BR>G:&nbsp; All right.&nbsp; He's not just going to stand there and let you do that,<BR>and he'll try to bat your weapon away or grab it.&nbsp; This will be an<BR>Opposed Roll:&nbsp; Your weapon skill versus his Brawling skill.<BR><BR>P:&nbsp; I've already seen how he fights, and I know he's not that skilled.<BR>My rifle skill is Rifle-3, so I can have 4D if I want them.&nbsp; But, I want<BR>to use the skill option again.&nbsp; I'll throw 3D versus his 2D, and I'll<BR>put the other 2 points on my Dex 8 for measuring purposes--trying to<BR>roll Greater Success.<BR><BR>G:&nbsp; Smart.&nbsp; If you roll GS, I'll apply damage randomly to the NPC.&nbsp; At<BR>shot at this range?&nbsp; It's the least I can do for point blank.&nbsp; Roll.<BR><BR>P:&nbsp; (Paul rolls 3D...."4-2-4")&nbsp; I've got a 10, and I'm using a 10 stat<BR>to measure.<BR><BR>G:&nbsp; (Gurd rolls the NPCs Brawling defense roll...."3-3")&nbsp; Total of 6!<BR>You hit!&nbsp; And, it's Greater Success.&nbsp; Roll damage!<BR><BR>P:&nbsp; My autorifle does 3D.&nbsp; (Paul rolls....."6-4-2")<BR><BR>G:&nbsp; I'm going to apply it randomly for the Greater Success.&nbsp; (The NPC's<BR>stat's are reduced to 404).&nbsp; Damn, Paul!&nbsp; Gvoudzon just shoved the<BR>barrel of his autorifle into this guy's gut and blew a hole in him!&nbsp; He<BR>falls down, blood dripping from a smoking wound in his abdomen.&nbsp; You've<BR>gone this round, and this guy can't go.&nbsp; It's time for the original NPC<BR>to make his move.&nbsp; He's using his weapon as a club.&nbsp; He could shoot you<BR>with it, but he's not.&nbsp; You notice this.&nbsp; He's got Brawling-3, and he<BR>just saw you blow his buddy away.&nbsp; So, he's got no idea how well you<BR>fight hand-to-hand.&nbsp; He's going to play it safe and throw all 4D into<BR>trying to beat you into unconsciousness (with the NPC's reduced Str 1,<BR>Gurd knows there's no hope of rolling Greater Success anyway.&nbsp; The GM<BR>rolls 4D....."6-2-3-4").&nbsp; 27!&nbsp; You can defend with your weapon using<BR>your Infighting skill.<BR><BR>P:&nbsp; All right, then.&nbsp; My skill is Infighting-1.&nbsp; Even if I throw 2<BR>sixes, I don't have a chance of beating that 27!&nbsp; (Paul rolls<BR>2D....."6-6")&nbsp; I can't believe it!&nbsp; Shit!&nbsp; A total of 24!&nbsp; I should have<BR>just rolled 1D to ensure he rolled Marginal Success--now he's got<BR>regular Success on me!<BR><BR>G:&nbsp; That's the breaks.&nbsp; His rifle is used as a club in this manner.&nbsp; A<BR>club does 2D damage.&nbsp; (Gurd rolls 2D....."2-1")&nbsp; Well, look at that!<BR>The break goes your way as well!<BR><BR>P:&nbsp; I'm going to take them both off End.&nbsp; My physical stats are now 785.<BR><BR>G:&nbsp; New round.&nbsp; You're up.<BR><BR>P:&nbsp; I ought to shoot this guy like I did the other one, but I want to<BR>capture this one in case the other one is dead.&nbsp; If I can knock him<BR>unconscious, we can capture him and try to find out what's going on.<BR>I'll swing my autorifle like a club.&nbsp; (Paul rolls 2D....."4-2").&nbsp; My<BR>attack is 6.<BR><BR>G:&nbsp; OK, he's blocking with his rifle as well.&nbsp; He'll use the skill<BR>option--I'll roll 2D and subtract 2 points from your total.&nbsp; I'm rolling<BR>2D versus 4+.&nbsp; (Gurd rolls the NPC's defense....."3-5").&nbsp; An 8!&nbsp; He<BR>blocked the attack, but his Str has taken so much damage, that just 1<BR>point over target is a Marginal Success.&nbsp; The guy's weak. His blows<BR>aren't as strong as he'd like them to be.&nbsp; I'll add a point to his<BR>fatigue total.&nbsp; But, it's his turn to act now.&nbsp; He's going to swing at<BR>you again.&nbsp; I'll throw 2D and add 2 points to his Str, making it an<BR>effective 3 for measuring purposes.&nbsp; (Gurd rolls 2D....."6-1")&nbsp; A total<BR>of 13!<BR><BR>P:&nbsp; Gvoudzon is defending himself, and he'd better throw both dice at<BR>this one.&nbsp; (Paul throws 2D....."3-3").&nbsp; Damn, you hit, but it's Marginal<BR>Success.&nbsp; Take one die off of damage!<BR><BR>G:&nbsp; (Gurd rolls damage 1D....."1")&nbsp; Lousy freakin' die!<BR><BR>P:&nbsp; (Paul reduces Gvoudzon's Dex by one point.)&nbsp; My physicals are now<BR>775!<BR><BR>G:&nbsp; New round.&nbsp; You're up.<BR><BR>P:&nbsp; I'm going to swack him again!&nbsp; (Paul rolls 2D....."2-5")&nbsp; Total is<BR>7.<BR><BR>G:&nbsp; I'll throw 2D and reduce your total by 2.&nbsp; (Gurd throws<BR>2D....."1-6")&nbsp; Oh no!&nbsp; I lost that odd die, but my total is still 6<BR>versus your reduced number of 5.&nbsp; Wait a minute!&nbsp; That "1" really helped<BR>me out.&nbsp; I'm within 1 point.&nbsp; He just defended with Greater Success.<BR>That can only mean that he blocked your swing in such a way that he<BR>damaged you!&nbsp; Take 2D damage!&nbsp; (Gurd rolls 2D....."1-2")<BR><BR>P:&nbsp; Damn the luck!&nbsp; My physicals are now 655.&nbsp; It's his turn to act now.<BR><BR>G:&nbsp; He swings again.&nbsp; I'll throw 2D and reduce your total by 2.&nbsp; (Gurd<BR>throws....."6-6")&nbsp; That's 24!<BR><BR>P:&nbsp; I'll defend with all I've got.&nbsp; (Paul throws 2D....."4-2")&nbsp; A 6.<BR>You hit, but it's Marginal Success!<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>I could go on with this fight, but I think you've seen enough to see how<BR>the system plays out.&nbsp; See, KB3 is very quick and very conducive to<BR>exciting role playing.<BR><BR>Once you get familiar with the system, add in some more complexity.&nbsp; Use<BR>the Combat Pools in T4, or use the range and stat modifiers for weapons<BR>in CT.<BR><BR>Tailor your game the way you like to play it.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3479<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Friday, December 29 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3480<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Iris valves<BR>Re: Iris valves<BR>RE: Iris valves<BR>Re: Character-Defined Task Rolls<BR>Re: Analogy of a Sweet Spot<BR>RE: Iris valves<BR>Re: Tim Little<BR>Re: Iris valves<BR>Re: Iris valves<BR>Re: HazMat was ACQ was RE: BITS adventures...<BR>Re: System traffic: Counting the ships<BR>Re: Iris valves<BR>Re: Lend-Lease (with ObTrav's!!)<BR>Re: Skills in CT<BR>Re: System Traffic: Counting the Ships<BR>Re: Star Worn? Comments<BR>Re:My last obscenity of the century<BR>Re: Analogy of a Sweet Spot<BR>Re: System Traffic: Counting the Ships<BR>Re: Character-Defined Task Rolls<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 03:14:25 -0500<BR>From: "Daniel Phelps" &lt;phelpsd@gate.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Iris valves<BR><BR>Where the excess space taken up is less of a problem, such as underground on<BR>airless worlds, has anyone considered using a ball valve?&nbsp; The hole in the<BR>ball would be the width of a corridor.&nbsp; Once turned the ball's chamber could<BR>be an air lock with two smaller lock doors, possibly curved gate valves?,<BR>set at right angles to the chamber.&nbsp; This would seem to solve the question<BR>of not knowing which side would be vacuum and allow access via a vac-suit to<BR>the depressurized area.&nbsp; I can see such valves installed at fixed intervals<BR>in a longish corridor run.<BR><BR>Dan<BR><BR>Dan<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 00:54:22 -0800<BR>From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>Subject: Re: Iris valves<BR><BR>healyzh@aracnet.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Resolved, Iris Values are impractical, impossible and otherwise<BR>&gt; &gt; silly. So? Not so? <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Have at it, grognards!<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Eris<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; From a technical standpoint, how well would they *seal*?&nbsp; It seems to<BR>&gt; me that is the real question.&nbsp; After all what good is a leaky hatch?<BR><BR>Easily solved at TL 14+.&nbsp; Use the same tech as bonded <BR>superdense, bond the leaves of the iris together when they are <BR>closed, that would create a better seal and anything else.&nbsp; <BR>Challenge magazine (#52 IIRC) features a TL 14 grappling gun that <BR>fired grapples that used molecular bonding to stick to whatever <BR>they hit, so the tech looks both each and very low power (micro-<BR>batteries imbedded in the panels of the door could form a useful <BR>back-up medium-term if the ship's power went off.&nbsp; They might give <BR>out after several weeks, but if the ship's power is off for several <BR>weeks, the passengers have far more serious problems to worry <BR>about.&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR><BR>- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 01:12:45 -0800<BR>From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>Subject: RE: Iris valves<BR><BR>"Matthew W. Helton" &lt;mwhelton@cox-internet.com&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; There are easier ways to seal an access way, airlock or bulkhead. The<BR>&gt; good old swinging hatch is hard to beat. If you want something<BR>&gt; automated, something along the lines of a hatch that recesses and<BR>&gt; moves to the side, like the side door on a van or minivan, or some<BR>&gt; passenger aircraft is the way to go.<BR><BR>My favorite are the ones which IIRC were used on Clarke's Rama.&nbsp; <BR>You have cylindrical chamber with 2 doors opposite each other and <BR>a rotating cylindrical chamber inside that has one opening.&nbsp; You <BR>can't ever have both doors at once, the rotating inner cylinder <BR>makes a great seal, and you still have to the two doors as a <BR>backup.&nbsp; Fool-proof, and you can even have an emergency hand <BR>crank to rotate the cylinder.&nbsp; Can anyone find any problem with this <BR>idea?&nbsp; It's a bit heavier than some options, but mass is not a <BR>terribly important consideration in with Traveller tech.<BR><BR><BR>- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 03:18:20 -0600<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Character-Defined Task Rolls<BR><BR>On 12/28/00 at 10:30 PM,&nbsp; Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;Those numbers all look good to me.&nbsp; Each of the systems look<BR>&gt;compatible percentage-wise.&nbsp; T4 and KB3 grow with the stat, which I<BR>&gt;think is desirable in a system.<BR><BR>&gt;Are you saying you prefer the flat 92% for some reason?<BR><BR>Not, especially, no.<BR><BR>&gt;Or, are you saying that you don't agree with KB3 percentages?<BR><BR>No, no! I'm agreeing with you, just adding a good word for KB2.<BR><BR>&gt;I don't follow?<BR><BR>Ken, all I'm doing is reminding everyone...you included...that KB2<BR>already does the job of dealing with the full Stat, but still puts<BR>more emphasis on Skill...where I think it should be.&nbsp; You may have<BR>"moved on" but I feel sorry for the poor orphaned KB2.&nbsp; &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;shrug&gt; Besides, if I was going to use a "hand-full-of-dice" system<BR>it would be my version of KB2 (1 to 3 per level) that I went<BR>with.... not KB3.&nbsp; The thing that makes KB3 unique is the opposed<BR>rolling and, no offense, but when you're PBEMing, all that "dicing"<BR>doesn't cut it.&nbsp; I'm not seeing anything else compelling in the<BR>results that would make me want to use KB3, especially seeing as I<BR>can abstract the effects of Stats into the Skill level anyway.<BR>&lt;/shrug&gt;<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 01:44:27 -0800<BR>From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>Subject: Re: Analogy of a Sweet Spot<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; Yep.&nbsp; Definitely.&nbsp; Look at those GS percentage numbers just tick on<BR>&gt; down when we increase Joe's skill level.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; BUT, THIS IS NOT WRONG IN KB3!!!!!!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; It is reflecting the "sweet spot" nature of the system.&nbsp; Joe only<BR>&gt; needs to make a doggone 7!&nbsp; There at the end, we're throwing 7 dice in<BR>&gt; order to make a roll of 7 or better!!!!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; We're throwing too much at it.&nbsp; We're wasting the character's energy<BR>&gt; and ability.&nbsp; The "sweet spot" logic of the system is kicking in.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Look at those percentages on the task success!!!&nbsp; We're wasting our<BR>&gt; skill "energy", blowing through, not using our skill to our best<BR>&gt; advantage!<BR><BR>The problem is that any player whose PC has with 3 or more levels <BR>in a skill will now have to sit down and decide how many dice to roll <BR>for moderate to low difficulty tasks.&nbsp; This is another step which is <BR>both complex &amp; counter-intuitive (to me at least).&nbsp; This is a system <BR>that won't run fast, and that kills it for me.&nbsp; Calculations that the <BR>player must make can be annoying if they aren't instantly obvious, <BR>however, decisions players must make before rolling a task are <BR>IME a terrible idea.&nbsp; In the few occasions I've played in systems <BR>with such things, far to many players dither and get caught up in <BR>the mechanics at the expense of the role-play.&nbsp; I've seen folks <BR>dither over whether or not to spend a Willpower point in White Wolf <BR>games, this is far worse than that, since it can occur far more often.<BR><BR>Earlier you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; When I look at systems like T4 and KB3, I can see why those <BR>&gt; character's are throwing what they are allowed to throw.&nbsp; When I <BR>&gt; look at systems like MT and CT, I can see why a character <BR>&gt; modifies the throw the way he does, but I see a<BR>&gt; generic throw that is applied to everybody.<BR><BR>I guess in part my feelings come down to that comparison.&nbsp; I agree <BR>with your description, and that's why I greatly prefer MT over <BR>systems like KB3.&nbsp; A single type of generic throw is both easy to <BR>remember, consistent and most of all simple.&nbsp; Also, having a single <BR>type of throw for everything has a nicely unified feel for me.&nbsp; To me, <BR>a system where everything uses the exact same type of roll with a <BR>few obvious modifiers is far superior to ones with more diversity<BR><BR><BR>- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com&nbsp; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 04:34:33 -0600<BR>From: "Matthew W. Helton" &lt;mwhelton@cox-internet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Iris valves<BR><BR>"My favorite are the ones which IIRC were used on Clarke's Rama.<BR>You have cylindrical chamber with 2 doors opposite each other and<BR>a rotating cylindrical chamber inside that has one opening.&nbsp; You<BR>can't ever have both doors at once, the rotating inner cylinder<BR>makes a great seal, and you still have to the two doors as a<BR>backup.&nbsp; Fool-proof, and you can even have an emergency hand<BR>crank to rotate the cylinder.&nbsp; Can anyone find any problem with this<BR>idea?&nbsp; It's a bit heavier than some options, but mass is not a<BR>terribly important consideration in with Traveller tech.<BR><BR><BR>- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com"<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; There would be only one problem: you have a fixed size for goods and<BR>personnel to move through...such a choke point would not be good in an<BR>emergency situation (i.e. trying to clear a ship with a completely evacuated<BR>atmosphere) or whenever heavy maintenance is done.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; The ball valve is good idea, but from a volumetric point of view it is<BR>inefficient. Sealing such a large ball valve would also be a challenge. I<BR>think it is "doable", and might be useful in some situations.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; The Double-sided hatch (A hatch on both sides of the bulkhead - a total of<BR>four hatches within a two point airlock) seems the most workable, and gets<BR>you compactness as well as some degree of redundancy. It would be a simple<BR>matter to automate such a system with the aforementioned recessed sliding<BR>door mechanism used today) SpecOps outfitted Submarines use double-sided<BR>hatches for "bubbleless" submerged egress/ingress of diving teams, and would<BR>lend themselves well to spaceborne operations.<BR>Sealing a larger doors, such as a cargo bay doors would almost certainly<BR>require some sort of mating flange or snap to seal effectively: sort of like<BR>the swing nose cargo aircraft currently in service.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Best,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 22:14:57 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Tim Little<BR><BR>Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions wrote:<BR>&gt; When you ran these numbers, did you include the E-Die?&nbsp; Or do these<BR>&gt; numbers reflect straight dice rolls?<BR><BR>The numbers include the E-die.&nbsp; Otherwise, the mean and median would<BR>have been identical to one another, at 3.5 per die.<BR><BR><BR>- - Tim<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 23:17:12 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Iris valves<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &gt; There are easier ways to seal an access way, airlock or bulkhead. The <BR>&gt; good<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; old swinging hatch is hard to beat.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;The problem with a swinging hatch is that while it provides a good seal<BR>&gt;&gt;if the high pressure is in the compartment it opens into, it provides<BR>&gt;&gt;*no* seal if the pressure differential runs the other way.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;[snip]<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; In space construction you generally know which side of a hatch is <BR>&gt; likely to be pressurized (the side with people) and which side is <BR>&gt; likely to be in vacuum (the side with stars).<BR><BR>You are overlokking the (rare) meteroid strike and combat damage. Some<BR>*sections* may be in vacuum while adjacent sections still hold pressure.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &gt; If you want something automated,<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; something along the lines of a hatch that recesses and moves to the side,<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; like the side door on a van or minivan, or some passenger aircraft is the<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; way to go.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Except that it *can't "swing out" if there's vacuum on on the other<BR>&gt;&gt;side, unless you've some *really* strong motors.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;That's the problem with internal pressure bulkheads. You can't know in<BR>&gt;&gt;advance *which* side of the bulkhead will have vacuum on it.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; [snip]<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; If you're opening a door which is only pressurized on one side, you <BR>&gt; apparently don't care if you spill your air. Put a valve in the <BR>&gt; bulkhead to equalize pressure /before/ opening the door. Slower <BR>&gt; decompression is also safer. If you don't want to dump your air, <BR>&gt; pressure sealed hatches are a nice safety feature. You can play the <BR>&gt; odds by having all hatches swing in towards the center of the <BR>&gt; structure. It is probable that outboard compartments will be in <BR>&gt; vacuum before inboard compartments.<BR><BR>Won't work in the circumstances above. The point is that when that<BR>emergency door closes, it has to *stay* closed *regardless* of which<BR>side has pressure. <BR><BR>Rescue crews can erect a temporary airlock over the hatch *if* they<BR>need to use it. <BR><BR>But a "swinging" hatch will seal fine in one direction and be very hard<BR>to keep sealed in the other direction.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 23:21:31 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Iris valves<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;You may get a hull breach (even more likley on a warship), so the bulkheads<BR>&gt;&gt;between sections must seal _both_ ways, and you don't know which side of the<BR>&gt;&gt;bulkhead the hole will be ahead of time.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; View in a monospace font.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; |==______==|<BR>&gt; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |<BR>&gt; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |<BR>&gt; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |<BR>&gt; |==------==|<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; |==&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ==|<BR>&gt; |\&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; \&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR>&gt; | \&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; \&nbsp; |<BR>&gt; |&nbsp; \&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; \ |<BR>&gt; |==&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ==|<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; |==&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ==|<BR>&gt; ||&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ||<BR>&gt; ||&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ||<BR>&gt; ||&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ||<BR>&gt; |==&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ==|<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; This design requires a length of corridor equal to the width of the opening.<BR>&gt; The hatch at the top of the diagram swings down and right and stores <BR>&gt; on the right wall when open.<BR>&gt; The hatch at the bottom of the diagram swing up and left and stores <BR>&gt; on the left wall when open.<BR>&gt; Both hatches can operate simultaneously and do not interfere with each other.<BR>&gt; Unless the breach occurs between the hatches, this door is always <BR>&gt; sealed by pressure.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; This is one of dozens of possible designs. The problem is trivial and <BR>&gt; could be solved by any spacecraft or space station designer of <BR>&gt; average intelligence and training. Standard solutions will be <BR>&gt; available in standards manuals, hence the name 8^)<BR><BR>Alas, *no* existing starship deckplans match anything other than<BR>*single* hatches. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 00:47:32 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: HazMat was ACQ was RE: BITS adventures...<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; The little yellow DOT handbook is really great for general use.&nbsp; It<BR>&gt; lists<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; chemicals by placard number or name/descriptor keyed to generic<BR>&gt; instruction<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; pages telling what to do or what not to do in case of a spill.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;And the ref gets to teach players why folks turn white when they see<BR>&gt;&gt;that "diamond" sign with 3 "4"s on it. :-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Leonard, you owe me a beer,&nbsp; sorry no keyboards were injured.<BR><BR>I take it you understand the hazard diamond coding?&lt;eg&gt;<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 18:40:59 +1100<BR>From: "Katharine Whitchurch" &lt;katts@globalfreeway.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: System traffic: Counting the ships<BR><BR>&gt; From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: System Traffic: Counting the Ships<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; On p. 16 there's a table indicating what volume of traffic each BTN<BR>&gt; brings in, including a column for approximate dtons per week.&nbsp; Go<BR>&gt; through all the trade routes touching on Drellesaar, generate the<BR>&gt; exact values for the amount of cargo coming in from each route<BR>&gt; this week, and figure about one 10,000-ton megafreighter is in-<BR>&gt; system for every 5,000 dtons of cargo.&nbsp; For smaller amounts,<BR>&gt; figure maybe one 1,000-ton freighter for every 300 tons of cargo,<BR>&gt; or one free trader for every 50 tons of cargo (smaller ships carrying<BR>&gt; less cargo in proportion).<BR><BR>Good thinking, but thats too much like hard work for my liking. Find the<BR>nearest big world, calculate the amount of cargo to it as above, and then<BR>double the number.<BR><BR>Ian Whitchurch<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 08:08:33 -0500 (EST)<BR>From: Michael Houghton &lt;herveus@Radix.Net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Iris valves<BR><BR>Howdy!<BR><BR>Leonard remarked:<BR>[snip]<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Rescue crews can erect a temporary airlock over the hatch *if* they<BR>&gt; need to use it. <BR>&gt; <BR>I work at Military Sealift Command Headquarters. Sometimes, people<BR>leave interesting reading matter in the mens room...<BR><BR>There was a newsletter from Hydrex, a marine repair firm. They specialize<BR>in on-site hull repairs. They have these portable (by lorry) dry-dock<BR>thingies that seal against the hull to allow them to cut out a bad piece<BR>of hull plate without having to drydock the whole ship. <BR><BR>yours,<BR>Michael<BR>- -- <BR>Michael and MJ Houghton&nbsp;&nbsp; | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly<BR>herveus@radix.net&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; | White Wolf and the Phoenix<BR>Bowie, MD, USA&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 22:55:00 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Lend-Lease (with ObTrav's!!)<BR><BR>&gt; From: Steven Hudson<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Interestingly, establishing an inner ring (including the prime<BR>&gt; oil-field objectives) _without_ striking at Pearl might have led<BR>&gt; to "victory"; a long, hard, fight with no one but the Chinese and<BR>&gt; the oil companies _really_ concerned about the short-term (long-<BR>&gt; term is another thing, but the ANZUS axis was bound to form...)<BR>&gt; would have been a damned hard sell to the American public (?).<BR><BR>Presumably the inner ring would include the Philippines.&nbsp; That would drag<BR>in the US.&nbsp; Empires tend to get offended when people mess with their<BR>colonies.<BR><BR>As for people who would care about the short term consequences:&nbsp; Australia<BR>would have got quite twitchy, particularly after/if Singapore fell.&nbsp; That<BR>is no big deal in itself, as Australia was one of the less influential<BR>allies, but still...<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;sigh&gt; Desire to run 5FW/Imperium type game vs time constraints...<BR><BR>Yeah.&nbsp; Hmm - the Pacific War would play quite well as a 5FW game.&nbsp; You<BR>could even stick a game of Invasion Earth on the side to represent the war<BR>in China.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 14:10 +0000 (GMT)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: Skills in CT<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;200012290155.TAA34204@pompano.pcola.gulf.net&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts,<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;How many times have I played a game where a character fails a routine<BR>&gt;&gt;engineering task and the reactor blows up after a 2-minute warning!<BR><BR>&gt;Hee, hee!&nbsp; I had something like that happen once...once!&nbsp; &lt;g&gt; <BR><BR>I have played in games where that was (at that point in time) the actual <BR>plot. The character is still around, although he's getting a reputation <BR>for almost suicidal action (he has also gone for a stroll in Jumpspace, as <BR>well as persuading a reactor that wanted to go critical not to).<BR><BR>Moreover... I once played a LIVE ROLE PLAY game where that was going on...<BR>and that character is still here! Funnily enough, that character has a <BR>medfile far thicker than anyone else in that particular game system. Hmmm. <BR>Wonder why?<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 14:10 +0000 (GMT)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: System Traffic: Counting the Ships<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;200012290221.UAA37901@pompano.pcola.gulf.net&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts, especially Eris.<BR><BR>Off the top of my head...<BR><BR>Consider the starport size in system. What do you consider a likely <BR>through-put of traffic?<BR><BR>What sort of trade goes on - does this system have significant imports <BR>and/or exports?<BR><BR>Are there any military bases? (Training exercises, etc.)<BR><BR>Do the locals indulge in 'recreational' space travel?<BR><BR>Are there outlying facilities? E.g. 'moonbases', asteroid mining, a gas <BR>giant with an orbital refuelling station? Does the main planet have an <BR>orbital facility (hence shuttle traffic up and down from the surface)?<BR><BR>Analogies: <BR><BR>1. A thriving sea port may have a couple of dozen arrivals and departures <BR>of 'ocean-going' traffic. The ancillary naval base may see one or two big <BR>ships come in or go out (assuming there is no flap on at the time). The <BR>local marina will have maybe a hundred or so pleasure craft of all sorts <BR>puttering around (especially at weekends or holiday periods).<BR><BR>2. A busy airport can have thousands of aircraft leaving and arriving... <BR>London Heathrow has something of the order of a landing or takeoff every <BR>second. Some passenger, some cargo, some longhaul, some local stuff. The <BR>flying school nearby may have about a dozen aircraft pottering around, <BR>doing circuits and bumps and stuff. An air force base will have maybe half <BR>a dozen squadrons who all do 2-3 sorties a day, plus maybe the air display <BR>team up and practising. Then there's the parachute centre sending up a <BR>flight an hour or so for people to jump out of; and the private facility <BR>where the corporate 'planes go...<BR><BR>Pick the level of in system activity you want and there you go.<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 06:31:04 -0800<BR>From: "Dave Strebe" &lt;strebe@intergate.bc.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Star Worn? Comments<BR><BR>Down loaded it for my son(wants to GM a game) and left the room so he could<BR>read<BR>it alone. Evil laughter and demented cackles shortly issued from his<BR>direction. Don't know<BR>if I should be worried or not.<BR><BR>Dave<BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Dominic Mooney" &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 2:30 PM<BR>Subject: Star Worn? Comments<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Hi all,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Just a Quickie - has anyone (beyond Megan) downloaded 'Star Worn',<BR>&gt; and are there any comments? I like having comments (good or bad) to<BR>&gt; pass back to Andy because it encourages him to do things like this<BR>&gt; again...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I know that 164 have visited since the adventure went up.....<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Catch you later, and Happy Christmas,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Dom (now off to do the East Coast of the UK and Germany for the New Year).<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 09:19:20 -0500<BR>From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re:My last obscenity of the century<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 01:28:00 -0500<BR>&gt;From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: My last obscenity of the century<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>*blink* Oh, my.<BR><BR>Is there a list award for making somone blush and hurriedly delete a <BR>message before the boss/SO/kids run accross it?<BR><BR>I do NOT want to know what ship for which a military mind would come up <BR>with this as a counter-ship!<BR><BR>Beats the devil out of the filks I've done here, though!<BR><BR>Cheers<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 10:48:28 -0600<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Analogy of a Sweet Spot<BR><BR>&gt; NOTE:<BR>&gt; This post is long...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ..., but it is also the most enlightening set of words I've devoted to<BR>&gt; KB3 yet.&nbsp; I can't figure the probability &lt;g&gt;, but if you take your time<BR>&gt; and read what I'm saying here completely, there is a chance that you<BR>&gt; will be amazed.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I was.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -KB<BR><BR>I'm beginning to think that you're right.<BR><BR>Come to think of it, KB3 is a lot like a system I designed for my<BR>almost-published RPG, The Host of Heaven. To save you the time from<BR>downloading it, and because I've made a major revision just now (based on<BR>KB3), some major revisions since its introduction (not based on KB3), and<BR>because I've included an adaptation for Traveller in this post, here it is.<BR>I guess you coul say that this is JJ0, since it was invented before JJ1.<BR><BR>First, here's the basic overview:<BR><BR>Stat+Skill vs difficulty (now where have I seen this before? ;)<BR><BR>Roll dice for stat+skill and dice for difficulty. Compare the highest of<BR>each; whichever is higher is the winner. If there's a tie, continue on down<BR>the line until there's a winner.<BR><BR>Now here's where it becomes like KB3: If ALL of the dice are tied<BR>(disregarding the lowest dice if one side has more than the other; hope you<BR>know what this means), then roll one more die. If it's even, the player<BR>scores a Critical Success; if it's odd, he gets a Critical Failure.<BR><BR>Use any dice you like (the rules were made to do this). Recommended: 6-sided<BR>and 10-sided (I had to do _something_ with that set of Vampire dice).<BR><BR>(Amazingly, these rules have never been tested by me in actual play.)<BR><BR>Here's the basic difficulty table:<BR><BR>Easy=1<BR>Average=2<BR>Hard=4<BR>Formidable=8<BR>Staggering=12<BR>Hopeless=16<BR><BR>(This is a revised table influenced heavily by Traveller)<BR><BR>Change based on KB3:<BR><BR>Characters can get rid of dice from their pool in order to get rid of the<BR>same number of dice from the difficulty pool. This allows a better chance<BR>for a Critical Success, but also a better chance for failure and Critical<BR>Failure.<BR><BR>Traveller Adaptation:<BR><BR>Stat is Traveller stat/3<BR>Skill is the same.<BR><BR>Tah-dah!<BR><BR>(PS: If anyone on this list is interested in fantasy gaming, I've got a<BR>preliminary version of a fantasy game based on this system ready and I'd be<BR>happy to send it to you; email me off-list.)<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>Administrator of the Milieu: 0 Aid Society<BR>http://members.nbci.com/cheebzero/trav_index.htm<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 09:16:24 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: System Traffic: Counting the Ships<BR><BR>JFZeigler@aol.com writes:<BR>&gt; In a message dated 12/28/00 9:13:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>&gt; eris@pcola.gulf.net writes:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Hum, I can't seem to put my finger on procedures for figuring this<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; out.&nbsp; I thought this might have been addressed in Far Trader or<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Starports, but I couldn't find anything.&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Actually, you should be able to estimate this using Far Trader, I<BR>&gt; should think.&nbsp; Let me take a stab at some reasonable rules of <BR>&gt; thumb.<BR><BR>Starports has a system of estimating it which is probably wrong.&nbsp; Far Trader<BR>has a system of getting trade to a particular world, which will probably run<BR>into problems in this case due to maximum route sizes.&nbsp; In any case, B310550A<BR>is a UWTN of 3.5 and a WTN of 4, which places an upper limit (per some<BR>discussions on plausible trade limits) of a BTN-8 route, which will probably<BR>be present.&nbsp; This gives a figure of 500-1000 dTons/week, or probably around<BR>10 free traders per week.&nbsp; Counting shouldn't be very hard.<BR><BR>This figure could be much higher if the world is on a route to somewhere else,<BR>however.&nbsp; It's easily possible that its on a main, in which case there could<BR>be 2-3 orders of magnitude more traffic.&nbsp;&nbsp; However, that isn't something that<BR>can easily be determined based on the UWP.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 12:15:03 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Character-Defined Task Rolls<BR><BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; No, no! I'm agreeing with you, just adding a good word for KB2.<BR><BR>You mean KB3!<BR><BR>I guess I was so used to people pointing out something they thought was wrong with KB3 that it didn't<BR>even dawn on me that you were supporting the system!<BR><BR>Shit, man.&nbsp; I've got so sit back in my chair for that one.&nbsp; You made me feel good.<BR><BR>Thanks!<BR><BR>&gt; Ken, all I'm doing is reminding everyone...you included...that KB2<BR>&gt; already does the job of dealing with the full Stat, but still puts<BR>&gt; more emphasis on Skill...where I think it should be.&nbsp; You may have<BR>&gt; "moved on" but I feel sorry for the poor orphaned KB2.&nbsp; &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Oh...you ARE talking about KB2.0...not KB3..<BR><BR>Well...I still say "thanks"...<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &lt;shrug&gt; Besides, if I was going to use a "hand-full-of-dice" system<BR>&gt; it would be my version of KB2 (1 to 3 per level) that I went<BR>&gt; with.... not KB3.<BR><BR>Yes, I was always intrigued by your "attribute tuning" approach.&nbsp; If you notice, in the write-up on<BR>KB2.0 on Freelance Traveller, I went into detail explaining how a method like that could be used with<BR>the system.&nbsp; And, what I wrote was directly inspired by the things you had to say--some 4 years ago<BR>when I wrote the system.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; The thing that makes KB3 unique is the opposed<BR>&gt; rolling and, no offense, but when you're PBEMing, all that "dicing"<BR>&gt; doesn't cut it.<BR><BR>I completely agree.&nbsp; The opposed rolling is fun when a GM and a player are dicing each other.&nbsp; If<BR>you're at your computer, making both rolls, typing in results, I can DEFINITELY see where you'd want<BR>to go with another system.<BR><BR>What doesn't attract you (with your PBEM game) using KB3 with static target numbers?<BR><BR>That way, you're rolling once, can still get the flavor of the E-Die, and as long as you keep things<BR>consistent, it should be an easy way for you to run a PBEM game.<BR><BR>Ohhh...but maybe the player choice of the skill options get in your way.&nbsp; You've got to have those.<BR><BR>KB3 is designed to pull the player into the game more actively.&nbsp; That's not something you want in a<BR>PBEM game.<BR><BR>But, if your players knew the system, they could e-mail you exactly what they wanted to do --i.e<BR>"I'll throw 2D versus that Easy Difficulty because I really want to make it, and I'll use that left<BR>over point to lower my target number."<BR><BR>So, I'm curious...do your PBEM players already do this?&nbsp; Do you e-mail back and forth with&nbsp; questions<BR>like, "Can I guage the difficulty level of climbing that cliff?"<BR><BR>Then you write back and say, "Yes, it's pretty steep.&nbsp; It's a Difficult climb."<BR><BR>If this is true, then you will have no extra work using KB3 with static difficulties.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; I'm not seeing anything else compelling in the<BR>&gt; results that would make me want to use KB3, especially seeing as I<BR>&gt; can abstract the effects of Stats into the Skill level anyway.<BR>&gt;<BR>I think the major advantages of KB3 are four fold (and some of these are covered by KB2.0--which is<BR>your point).<BR><BR>(1)&nbsp; Stats and Skills are balanced by doing different jobs with regard to the task roll.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; KB3 is an elegant system in that it really only uses stats and skills...and not much else....<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; .....skills give you dice to throw and/or points to adjust your target number/measurment stat.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; .....stats measure how well you did.<BR><BR>(2)&nbsp; The system is so simple to run that all you need is a set of stats and that character's skills,<BR>lifted right out of any Traveller book.&nbsp; If you need an NPC in a flash, you can get one from the<BR>adventure you are running (or from 1001 Characters...roll a few dice rolls real fast to create<BR>one...or whatever method you use), and as soon as you have Stats and Skills, you're ready to roll.<BR>You don't need to also create the "Experience Score" in KB2.0, and you don't need to figure modifiers<BR>like MT.<BR><BR>(3)&nbsp;&nbsp; Difficulties run intuitively, cleanly, elegantly&nbsp; from 1D-6D.<BR><BR>(4)&nbsp; (In my opinion) the biggest advantage of the system is the effect it has on the "fun-level" of a<BR>fact-to-face game.&nbsp; The dicing method is just...well..er...fun!&nbsp; Read through my play example in the<BR>post called "Gvoudzon's Run".&nbsp;&nbsp; You'll see what I mean.<BR><BR>&gt;<BR><BR>To be honest, the more I run and understand KB3, the more I like it.&nbsp; So far, it's doing exactly what<BR>I wanted it to do.&nbsp; I think my group is going to love it.<BR><BR>We'll see...the actual face-to-face playtest has yet to begin!<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3480<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; 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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3481</B></TD></TR>
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<TD>12/29/00 4:13:56 PM Pacific Standard Time</TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Friday, December 29 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3481<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Analogy of a Sweet Spot<BR>Re: Tim Little<BR>Re: Analogy of a Sweet Spot<BR>Re: Analogy of a Sweet Spot<BR>Re: Iris valves<BR>Re: Iris valves<BR>Re: My last obscenity of the century<BR>Re: Iris valves<BR>Re: My last obscenity of the century<BR>Re: My last obscenity of the century<BR>Re: My last obscenity of the century<BR>If MT were unknown...<BR>Re: My last obscenity of the century<BR>Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR>Re: Iris valves<BR>Re: Star Worn? Comments<BR>Re: Ball valves<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 13:00:03 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Analogy of a Sweet Spot<BR><BR>sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; The problem is that any player whose PC has with 3 or more levels<BR>&gt; in a skill will now have to sit down and decide how many dice to roll<BR>&gt; for moderate to low difficulty tasks.<BR><BR>I think that's a good thing.&nbsp; You may not.&nbsp; I want to bring my players "more<BR>into" the game.&nbsp; Dicing this way does that trick.<BR><BR>If you look at the example of play I posted (called Gvoudzon's Run), you'll<BR>see that play is pretty doggone smooth.&nbsp; I was playing both sides--GM and<BR>Player--writing the scenario and physically rolling dice, and it went very<BR>smoothly for me.<BR><BR>I can see your concern, but like I just said, it was exceptionally<BR>smooth--even heated.&nbsp; Now, if another person was across the table from me,<BR>we're talking about a super smooth game play.<BR><BR>Read through Gvoudzon's Run and see if you can get a feel for what I'm<BR>talking about.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; This is another step which is<BR>&gt; both complex &amp; counter-intuitive (to me at least).<BR><BR>It's just unfamiliarity with the system.&nbsp; Really the "skill point" options<BR>are not complex at all.&nbsp; You can guage what to roll by the difficulty (which<BR>you know most of the time--depending on your GM).<BR><BR>1D&nbsp; Easy<BR>2D&nbsp; Average<BR>3D&nbsp; Difficult<BR>4D&nbsp; Formidable<BR>5D&nbsp; Staggering<BR>6D&nbsp; Impossible<BR><BR><BR>As a general rule of thumb, a KB3 player can guage by thinking to himself--<BR><BR>(1)&nbsp; If I throw a like number of dice, I'll have about a 50% shot at making<BR>the task.<BR><BR>(2)&nbsp; If I throw 1 die more than my difficulty, the edge will be in my favor<BR>by a comfortable margin.<BR><BR>(3)&nbsp; If I throw anymore than 1 die more than my difficulty (2D+ over<BR>difficulty), then I'm almost sure to win the toss, and I may be wasting some<BR>of my skill points in this manner.<BR><BR>(4)&nbsp; Once I've decided how many dice I need to throw to succeed, then, if I<BR>have any skill points left over, it's to my advantage to either reduce the<BR>difficulty result or raise my Stat for measuring purposes.<BR><BR><BR>Once you get a grasp of this decision process by becoming familair with the<BR>system (not unlike getting a grasp of what certain modifiers will do for<BR>your throw under other game systems--you've just got to get to "know" your<BR>system), it's no effort at all--takes no time at all.<BR><BR><BR><BR>I'll give you some examples--showing to conditions why I threw what I did:<BR><BR>If I've got a Skill-3, I know I've got 4D to roll.<BR><BR>If you throw an Easy (1D) task at me, I'll roll 1D and reduce the difficulty<BR>by 3.<BR><BR>If you throw an Average (2D) task at me, and it is important to me to make<BR>Greater Success, I'll roll 2D and raise my governing stat by 2.<BR><BR>If you throw a Difficult (3D) task at me, but it is not important for me to<BR>make the throw, I'll throw 3D and reduce difficulty by 1.<BR><BR>If you throw a Formidable (4D), a Staggering (5D), or an Impossible (6D)<BR>task at me, and it is important to make the throw, I'll want to put<BR>everything I've got into rolling a success--so I'll throw 4D.<BR><BR><BR>See, the system is intuitive (if you followed what I'm saying), but like any<BR>other game system, you've got to get a feel for it.&nbsp; Running through an<BR>encounter or two should do the trick.<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; This is a system<BR>&gt; that won't run fast, and that kills it for me.<BR><BR>I agree friggin' COMPLETELY.&nbsp; One of the things I don't really like about<BR>the new D&amp;D 3rd edition d20 rules (and the new d20 Star Wars rules..and all<BR>the other d20 systems coming out) is that the game design took a step<BR>backwards.&nbsp; They're into "modifiers for everything", and that just slows the<BR>game down too much.<BR><BR>"You get +6 to your AC for DEX, Shield, and Armor...but if someone attacks<BR>you from a flank or rear, you don't get the Shield bonus...what's<BR>that?....oh, OK...you're at +5 now...but, if you're caught flat footed, you<BR>only get your armor bonus...what is that anyway?....<BR><BR>"OK, now it's time for your attack...where are your modifiers coming from?"<BR><BR>Hate that stuff.&nbsp; It's like old 70's gaming or complicated war gaming rules.<BR><BR>I want detailed results, but I want easy to play, intuitive design too.&nbsp; I<BR>don't want to bother with a lot of crap.<BR><BR>Again, the best way for me to show you the "flow" of a KB3 game is to let<BR>you see one.&nbsp; The best way I can do that here on the TML is to give you an<BR>example of a game session.<BR><BR>Read Gvoudzon's Run.&nbsp; You'll see that the system does "flow" and is not<BR>"complex" when used.&nbsp; The game is not bogged down.<BR><BR>I would loathe KB3 if it didn't run smoothly.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; A single type of generic throw is both easy to<BR>&gt; remember, consistent and most of all simple.<BR><BR>Agreed.&nbsp; CT and MT do have a certain appeal to me.&nbsp; They're easy to<BR>run--what we all grew up with--"fun", even if for no other reason than we've<BR>liked them for years.<BR><BR>I still love the old CT and MT systems.<BR><BR>On one level though, KB3 is even more intuitive than these systems.&nbsp; It's<BR>hard to believe because we all have YEARS of experience with CT and MT.&nbsp; We<BR>know them by heart.<BR><BR>KB3 doesn't use all the charts that CT uses.&nbsp; KB3 doesn't divide stat like<BR>MT does.&nbsp; With KB3, you've got a Stat score and a Skill level, and THIS is<BR>what you use to decide what you roll.<BR><BR>Can you imagine if nobody had ever heard of MT, and I was here on the list<BR>touting a new system I had made up caled KBMT...<BR><BR>"It's great!&nbsp; You'll love it!&nbsp; It only uses 2 dice!"<BR><BR>"What are you talking about, Ken!&nbsp; That damn divide stat by five thing is<BR>not intuitive AT ALL. Why should we do that?&nbsp; And those irregular target<BR>numbers.&nbsp; 3-7-11-14-19.&nbsp; How'd you come up with that crap?"<BR><BR><BR>I can see it now...<BR><BR>You KNOW that's how people would react too.<BR><BR><BR>Keep an open mind.&nbsp; Read through Gvoudzon's Run.&nbsp; If you give the system a<BR>chance, you might like it.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 13:01:40 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Tim Little<BR><BR>Timothy Little wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; The numbers include the E-die.&nbsp; Otherwise, the mean and median would<BR>&gt; have been identical to one another, at 3.5 per die.<BR><BR>Thanks for that.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 13:08:07 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Analogy of a Sweet Spot<BR><BR>James Jensen wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; NOTE:<BR>&gt; &gt; This post is long...<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; ..., but it is also the most enlightening set of words I've devoted to<BR>&gt; &gt; KB3 yet.&nbsp; I can't figure the probability &lt;g&gt;, but if you take your time<BR>&gt; &gt; and read what I'm saying here completely, there is a chance that you<BR>&gt; &gt; will be amazed.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; I was.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -KB<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I'm beginning to think that you're right.<BR><BR>I think the resistence to KB3 is that it is *different* from what Traveller fans<BR>are used to.&nbsp; It's not *different* in a<BR>"change-all-the-dice-and-rules-TNE-GURPS" kind of way.&nbsp; The basis of it is very<BR>"Traveller."<BR><BR>But, KB3 is different in a "game logic" kind of way.<BR><BR>People are always resistent to change.&nbsp; And they are typically not going to put<BR>the effort into learning something *new*.<BR><BR>Check out my post "Gvoudzon's Run".&nbsp; You'll see KB3 in action.<BR><BR>It's not hard to use at all.&nbsp; It is intuitive, once you're familiar with the<BR>system.&nbsp; And, it's just down right "fun" Traveller gaming.<BR><BR>Check it out.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 13:16:29 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Analogy of a Sweet Spot<BR><BR>James Jensen wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; I've made a major revision just now (based on<BR>&gt; KB3), some major revisions since its introduction (not based on KB3), and<BR>&gt; because I've included an adaptation for Traveller in this post, here it is.<BR><BR>That makes me feel good.&nbsp; I'm glad you got some use out of the idea.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Stat+Skill vs difficulty (now where have I seen this before? ;)<BR><BR>I'm guessing that Stat and Skill are on the same scale?<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; Roll dice for stat+skill and dice for difficulty. Compare the highest of<BR>&gt; each; whichever is higher is the winner. If there's a tie, continue on down<BR>&gt; the line until there's a winner.<BR><BR>You're rolling oppssed rolls, right?&nbsp; The Player rolls his task, then the GM<BR>rolls his...<BR><BR>I mean, the GM is not rolling 2 rolls, right?<BR><BR>And, do you have static target numbers too?&nbsp; You'll need them if a GM ever needs<BR>to roll for an NPC behind his GM screen on a roll that doesn't involve a player<BR>throw.<BR><BR>For example, if the GM knows that a bad guy is sitting in a cafe when the<BR>characters walk by outside, the GM wants to roll to see if the bad guy notices<BR>his quarry--the PCs.&nbsp; So, the GM rolls some sort of perception check behind his<BR>screen.<BR><BR>This can get awkward in a system if you don't have static targets.&nbsp; An<BR>experienced gaming GM is not going to want to have to throw two rolls for one<BR>outcome.<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; Now here's where it becomes like KB3: If ALL of the dice are tied<BR>&gt; (disregarding the lowest dice if one side has more than the other; hope you<BR>&gt; know what this means), then roll one more die. If it's even, the player<BR>&gt; scores a Critical Success; if it's odd, he gets a Critical Failure.<BR><BR>You're loosing me.&nbsp; I need an example.<BR><BR>And, I don't understand if this is a higher-is-better, lower-is-better, or sweet<BR>spot system.<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 11:20:41 -0800<BR>From: Gordon Horne &lt;gordon.horne@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Iris valves<BR><BR>&gt;Alas, *no* existing starship deckplans match anything other than<BR>&gt;*single* hatches.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>New way for PCs to make money in a campaign - sue the incompetent <BR>designers and builders of their ships 8^)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 11:39:03 -0800<BR>From: Evyn MacDude &lt;wmacdude@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Iris valves<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; There are easier ways to seal an access way, airlock or bulkhead. The good<BR>&gt; &gt; old swinging hatch is hard to beat.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The problem with a swinging hatch is that while it provides a good seal<BR>&gt; if the high pressure is in the compartment it opens into, it provides<BR>&gt; *no* seal if the pressure differential runs the other way.<BR><BR>No seal?!?&nbsp; What its just sitting there closed? Most hatches I've ever<BR>dealt with the dogs were on the opposite side from the swing, and when<BR>properly dogged down they where air tight. The newer ones had a bleeder valve<BR>so on could see what was on the other side at least, equalize pressure at most.<BR>Some even had a HP air fitting installed.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 14:44:19 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: My last obscenity of the century<BR><BR>At 10:44 PM -0800 12/28/00, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;lol, it's a good thing Yukiko and I were done with our drinking (not that<BR>&gt;she understands this.)<BR><BR>Oh, come on!&nbsp; You seriously expect us to believe that anyone from <BR>Japan does not greet bizarrely-shaped spaceships, whether or not <BR>piloted by freakishly-nosed Eurasians, as old and dear childhood <BR>friends??????<BR><BR>Or are you claiming that in the interests of intercultural <BR>communication I should have designed the thing as one of those <BR>jelly-covered gumball machines with the little dolphin/muskrat <BR>attachment vibrators?? Is that what you want???<BR><BR>WHY DO YOU PEOPLE MAKE ME DO THESE THINGS????????<BR><BR>&gt;and love your darkest side, disposing of only what is obsolete or<BR>&gt;impractical.&nbsp; It's all about giving yourself permission."<BR><BR>My first reaction was that this is talking about Trav gearheads...<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 11:47:41 -0800<BR>From: Gordon Horne &lt;gordon.horne@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Iris valves<BR><BR>[snip]<BR><BR>&gt;You are overlokking the (rare) meteroid strike and combat damage. Some<BR>&gt;*sections* may be in vacuum while adjacent sections still hold pressure.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;[snip]<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Won't work in the circumstances above. The point is that when that<BR>&gt;emergency door closes, it has to *stay* closed *regardless* of which<BR>&gt;side has pressure.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Rescue crews can erect a temporary airlock over the hatch *if* they<BR>&gt;need to use it.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;But a "swinging" hatch will seal fine in one direction and be very hard<BR>&gt;to keep sealed in the other direction.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>If your concern is how to open a single hatch with vacuum on one <BR>side, you're too stupid to live, anyway.<BR><BR>If your concern is how to secure a hatch with vacuum on a random <BR>side, several mechanical options provide reasonable protection <BR>against accidental opening into vacuum.<BR>Swing hatches:<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Whacking great bolts which run from the hatch into the bulkhead - <BR>like a bank vault.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Heavy dogs mounted on the bulkhead which latch over the edge of the <BR>hatch on the side it swings into.<BR>Sliding doors:<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; A gasket of material which shrinks when an electric current is <BR>applied. When the current fails the gasket expands and jams the hatch <BR>shut.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; A double gasket of flexible material pressurized to ~1/2 the <BR>ambient pressure. When one side of the hatch goes to vacuum the <BR>gasket on that side expands and seals the hatch.<BR><BR>The fourth method on the above list has a problem in that it is very <BR>difficult to open with vacuum on one side even if you need to. No <BR>doubt there are many other methods of getting a reliable seal on a <BR>swinging or sliding hatch with vacuum on an unknown side. Most should <BR>require an active measure to keep open. Stop applying force or a <BR>certain condition and they automatically close and seal. For example, <BR>our swinging hatch with whacking great bolts can be held open against <BR>the force of a large spring by an electromagnet. When current to the <BR>magnet fails, the door swings shut. Closing contact triggers a latch <BR>which is restraining another spring. The energy of that spring spins <BR>a wheel which engages the whacking great bolts into their slots in <BR>the bulkhead.<BR><BR>Side note: old space hands amongst PCs should be allowed to orient <BR>themselves in an unknown ship, station or even pressurized surface <BR>installation by examining the design and mounting of bulkhead <BR>pressure hatches which will give them a good idea how the designer <BR>expected them to be tested. IRL architects are very good at finding <BR>the washrooms in unfamiliar buildings. 8^)<BR><BR>TTFN<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; g<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 12:21:37 -0800<BR>From: Evyn MacDude &lt;wmacdude@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: My last obscenity of the century<BR><BR>Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Or are you claiming that in the interests of intercultural<BR>&gt; communication I should have designed the thing as one of those<BR>&gt; jelly-covered gumball machines with the little dolphin/muskrat<BR>&gt; attachment vibrators?? Is that what you want???<BR><BR>No, just remember the retaining ring next time.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 12:36:04 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: My last obscenity of the century<BR><BR>On Fri, 29 Dec 2000, Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; At 10:44 PM -0800 12/28/00, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;lol, it's a good thing Yukiko and I were done with our drinking (not that<BR>&gt; &gt;she understands this.)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Oh, come on!&nbsp; You seriously expect us to believe that anyone from <BR>&gt; Japan does not greet bizarrely-shaped spaceships, whether or not <BR>&gt; piloted by freakishly-nosed Eurasians, as old and dear childhood <BR>&gt; friends??????<BR><BR>Once I explained what all the numbers meant, sure.<BR><BR>&gt; Or are you claiming that in the interests of intercultural <BR>&gt; communication I should have designed the thing as one of those <BR>&gt; jelly-covered gumball machines with the little dolphin/muskrat <BR>&gt; attachment vibrators?? Is that what you want???<BR><BR>Yes, but if you do that, you have to promise not to tell, because then all<BR>the girls will want one.<BR><BR>(and the boys will feel inadequate... )<BR><BR>&gt; WHY DO YOU PEOPLE MAKE ME DO THESE THINGS????????<BR><BR>Because we can, and because you're so cute when you sputter like that.<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;and love your darkest side, disposing of only what is obsolete or<BR>&gt; &gt;impractical.&nbsp; It's all about giving yourself permission."<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; My first reaction was that this is talking about Trav gearheads...<BR>&gt; <BR>Oh, why not?<BR><BR>(Sometimes you just gotta say...)<BR><BR>lol.<BR><BR>Kirichan yori<BR><BR>******************************************************************************<BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 93!&nbsp; Thou Art God<BR>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR><BR>"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>Desire is embraced in a dream..."&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- X-JAPAN<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 12:36:49 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: My last obscenity of the century<BR><BR>On Fri, 29 Dec 2000, Evyn MacDude wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Or are you claiming that in the interests of intercultural<BR>&gt; &gt; communication I should have designed the thing as one of those<BR>&gt; &gt; jelly-covered gumball machines with the little dolphin/muskrat<BR>&gt; &gt; attachment vibrators?? Is that what you want???<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; No, just remember the retaining ring next time.<BR>&gt; <BR>Make sure it's attached securely.&nbsp; You KNOW what happened the last time.<BR><BR>kirichan yori&nbsp; ^_^<BR><BR>******************************************************************************<BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 93!&nbsp; Thou Art God<BR>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR><BR>"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>Desire is embraced in a dream..."&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- X-JAPAN<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 14:56:48 -0600<BR>From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions &lt;dreamer@brokersys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: If MT were unknown...<BR><BR>I just said something to John Snead that as made me step back and pause<BR>a moment.<BR><BR>Can you imagine what the reception on this list would be like if MT had<BR>never been written, and I was standing here touting the advantages of<BR>this new system I had made up--KBMT!<BR><BR>Can you really imagine that?<BR><BR>I mean, we all love MT.&nbsp; I know I do.&nbsp; I *still* do.&nbsp; We're comfortable<BR>with it.&nbsp; We know it.&nbsp; We've been playing it for over a decade.<BR><BR>Now, try imagine a world where there was no MT.&nbsp; Try to imagine how it<BR>would be if you hadn't lived with MT for so long and had grown to know<BR>it better than you know the detail of your girlfriend's face.<BR><BR>Then, as you sit at your computer, this guy comes out of the dark<BR>talking about a system "that only uses 2 dice"!&nbsp; "You'll LOVE it," he<BR>says.<BR><BR>And you look at it, and you see the Stat/5 part of it....and you see<BR>these awkward, ungainly target numbers 3-7-11-15-19....and you can see<BR>that a Dex-4, Skill-0 character has the same generic chance of success<BR>as a Dex-1, Skill-0 character....<BR><BR><BR>What do you think your reaction would be?&nbsp; Keep in mind that you're not<BR>as comfortable with MT as you are now...you've never heard of the system<BR>before.<BR><BR><BR>I bet if MT were my own creation, and I was laying it on you now, there<BR>would be no way to overcome the negative feedback I'd get about it,<BR>posting it here on the TML, even showing you that the system is sound<BR>statistically.<BR><BR><BR>It's an interesting thought....<BR><BR>Kenneth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 16:14:18 -0500<BR>From: Kenji Schwarz &lt;schwarz@fas.harvard.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: My last obscenity of the century<BR><BR>At 12:21 PM -0800 12/29/00, Evyn MacDude wrote:<BR>&gt;Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; Or are you claiming that in the interests of intercultural<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; communication I should have designed the thing as one of those<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; jelly-covered gumball machines with the little dolphin/muskrat<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; attachment vibrators?? Is that what you want???<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;No, just remember the retaining ring next time.<BR><BR>Whoops... looks like the design didn't come through as clear as I'd hoped :(<BR><BR>Two cones; one long and one stubby, joined together -- not <BR>base-to-base, but tip-to-base.&nbsp; The long, skinnier cone is in front; <BR>the shorter, broader-based cone is in back.&nbsp; The base of the long <BR>cone, compared to the diameter of the forepart of the short cone, <BR>should be wide enough to prevent the RI Cruiser from being drawn in <BR>too deep and destroyed by the enemy's rear defenses.<BR><BR>Adequately graphic, yes?<BR><BR>OTOH, if you arrange things differently and *do* need a retaining <BR>ring, well, finally!&nbsp; A use for CT laboratory ships!<BR><BR>Kenji<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 09:24:09 +1100<BR>From: Timothy Little &lt;tim@lilly-villa.little-possums.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump emergence (Was: Reft sector X-boat link)<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; To separate the fusion plants from the stars would be a very difficult<BR>&gt; &gt; task.&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Actually, it occurs to me that you could possibly distinguish based on<BR>&gt; the energy spectrum of the various sources. <BR><BR>Yes, that is a possibility.&nbsp; There will still be a large overlap in<BR>energies, but at least the theoretical possibility of separating them.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Think of every sunlike star as a 300 000 000 000 000 000 000 MW fusion<BR>&gt; &gt; reactor, and maybe you see the problem in looking for the microscopic<BR>&gt; &gt; reactors used in starships.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The inverse square law is our friend. :-)<BR><BR>Not that much of a friend.&nbsp; To bring the star contribution down to<BR>comparable magnitude with a 1000 MW fusion reactor, it has to be 500<BR>000 000 000 times further away.&nbsp; :^(<BR><BR>So if the starship is at 3 AU, it has a neutrino output comparable to<BR>that of a star 26 million light-years away.&nbsp; And there are hundreds of<BR>billions of stars much closer than that.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Also, since the fusion reactors *aren't* going to be using the Bethe<BR>&gt; cycle, but instead forcing p-p fusion directly, they'll be emitting<BR>&gt; neutrinos with a very different energy spectrum.<BR><BR>I don't think we know how fusion plants will operate.&nbsp; I very much<BR>doubt direct p+p+p+p-&gt;He4 fusion -- there will be other reactions<BR>occurring.&nbsp; Since we know that refined hydrogen will do as reactor<BR>fuel, it must start with protons.&nbsp; Now, the sun has a whole bunch of<BR>reactions with different neutrino energies.<BR><BR>You'd have to posit that the artificial fusion reactions produce<BR>neutrinos way outside the stellar reaction energy bands.&nbsp; You also<BR>have to posit that the detectors are incredibly efficient at capturing<BR>neutrinos, else you won't be able to see the reactor at any<BR>astronomical distance.<BR><BR>However, we know (from canonical sources) that neutrino detectors<BR>work, and can detect fusion plants.&nbsp; From that, we can deduce that in<BR>canonical Traveller such conditions hold.<BR><BR>It may even be that the specialised artificial fusion detectors can't<BR>see natural fusion neutrinos at all.&nbsp; This would actually be a Good<BR>Thing from a starship sensor point of view, since it means you don't<BR>need to filter them out to find starship reactors.<BR><BR>Of course, it would also make finding your position in a nebula by<BR>looking for stellar neutrinos far more difficult.<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>IMTU tg+ tc+() !tt tm tn-- ge++ 3i+ c+&gt;++ au+ ls pi-@ ta- he+ va++ as+ so- kk--<BR>Tim Little 0209 D347577-9 S va++ as+ so- kk-- A 822<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 14:32:55 -0800<BR>From: Gordon Horne &lt;gordon.horne@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Iris valves<BR><BR>A quick summary of iris valves: they are unnecessary; they don't fill <BR>any need not addressed by other designs (other than "look cool"); <BR>they take up space in all directions in a plane around the opening <BR>rather than one coplanar direction for sliding or rolling hatches or <BR>one volume adjacent to the opening for swinging hatches; they are <BR>more difficult to seal than other types because the join has a <BR>complex geometry; if you can seal an iris valve you can seal the <BR>simpler sliding, rolling or swinging hatch.<BR><BR>Iris valves have no advantage over other types of hatch other than <BR>they "look cool." If you like them, use them, but please don't say <BR>they are superior in all respects to "more primitive" designs. 8^)<BR><BR>TTFN<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; g<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 17:25:48 -0500<BR>From: knightsky@juno.com<BR>Subject: Re: Star Worn? Comments<BR><BR>&gt; Down loaded it for my son(wants to GM a game) and left the room so he <BR>&gt; could<BR>&gt; read<BR>&gt; it alone. Evil laughter and demented cackles shortly issued from his<BR>&gt; direction. Don't know<BR>&gt; if I should be worried or not.<BR><BR>Be afraid.&nbsp; Be *very* afraid.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Perry<BR>"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>________________________________________________________________<BR>GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!<BR>Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!<BR>Join Juno today!&nbsp; For your FREE software, visit:<BR>http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 18:40:15 -0500<BR>From: "Daniel Phelps" &lt;phelpsd@gate.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Ball valves<BR><BR>Was written:<BR><BR>&gt; The ball valve is good idea, but from a volumetric point of view it is<BR>&gt;inefficient. Sealing such a large ball valve would also be a challenge. I<BR>&gt;think it is "doable", and might be useful in some situations.<BR><BR><BR>That is why I figured it would be useful where the excess space taken up is<BR>less of a problem, such as underground on airless worlds. I've thought the<BR>design over again and I see the following possible limited utility design<BR>used in a near surface or even on the surface corridor/tunnel running from<BR>one "inhabited space" to another.&nbsp; For near surface tunnels the valves would<BR>be installed as a unit by cut and fill, for surface runs it would be a<BR>connector.&nbsp; Picturing the tunnel in cross section the pivot for the ball<BR>valve would run on an axis from 0 degrees to 180 or from 90 to 270 degrees<BR>for subsurface and on the surface runs respectively.&nbsp; This would allow one<BR>of the pivots to be functional as an air lock to the planet's surface.&nbsp; I<BR>picture the pivots to be a meter or two across and several meters long with<BR>a pair of old fashion swing valves at each end of one of the pivots forming<BR>an air lock chamber.&nbsp; Within the lock would be safety equipment and a "fits<BR>all" vac suit or two.&nbsp; Within the other pivot chamber would be emergency<BR>life support for the ball valve's chamber and several hamster balls.&nbsp; All of<BR>this would be very standard design.&nbsp; For the buried valve there would be a<BR>flexible ladder stowed on the ceiling so that one could pull it down, climb<BR>up and lockout to the planet's surface.&nbsp;&nbsp; For the surface run situation a<BR>folding stair arrangement allowing access to the lockout chamber and access<BR>to the planet's surface.&nbsp; At 90 degrees to the pivot axis, on a second axis,<BR>would be a pair of swing valves which, when the ball valve rotates, open on<BR>the corridor fore and aft.&nbsp; The corridor/tunnels would have hamster balls in<BR>emergency self rescue lockers at regular intervals and at greater intervals<BR>the ball valves.&nbsp; The swing valves will just fit an inflated hamster ball.<BR><BR>Now consider the following emergency situations:<BR><BR>The warning lights and sirens go off signaling an imminent decompression<BR>event.&nbsp; The ball valve will rotate when pressure declines to a set point,<BR>say between .75 and .5 of standard atmosphere.&nbsp; The PCs have a choice of<BR>running for the valve chamber or getting into a hamster ball.&nbsp;&nbsp; If they get<BR>into a hamster ball they get to roll to the chamber door and try to get<BR>someone to help them/rescue them.&nbsp; If they are in the ball valve chamber<BR>they get to figure how to rescue those folks in hamster balls.&nbsp; Regarding<BR>the emergency, it is expected that in the case of a decompression event only<BR>one run of corridor will be effected.&nbsp; Thus the ball valve's chamber<BR>functions as an air lock to that section of corridor.&nbsp; If the corridor runs<BR>on both sides of the ball valve decompress things get a bit more dicey.<BR>Rescue is best accomplished via the air lock to the surface.&nbsp;&nbsp; Lots of<BR>possibilities for too many people for the life boat type scenarios.<BR><BR>I used the KISS principle in this write up and I intend the design to be<BR>mass produced and installed like storm drain boxes or sewage booster pump<BR>installations are on Tech 9 worlds with standard atmospheres and surface<BR>water.&nbsp; Yes there are probably more elegant solutions but what I am<BR>designing for is simplicity of design, ease of construction and potential<BR>for use in creating interesting game play.<BR><BR>Dan<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3481<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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